From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:29:46 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.9 required=2.4 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9B049077 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZeo011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:19 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0311E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 20169 Lines: 485 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:33:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Seasonal Bee Size In-Reply-To: <20031128.190117.-4090493.0.usbwrangler@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis Murrell wrote: > Hi Trevor and Everyone, >>We were told in years gone by by the experts here in Australia that bees > > do > not get bigger after they are born.... > > I have been told the same thing. But wonder if it is true. I often marked > my breeder queens when queen rearing. Immediately after mating, most of > the queens would be small in both the thorax and abdomen. A month later > most of those runts could look pretty impressive. The paint spots would > stay the same size(I think) but the thorax would be much larger. Question for the experts. Is the exo-skeleton segmented or continuous? If it is segmented, which I believe it is, that would allow for some expansion or growth. I would hate to be trapped with the same size waist, especially after the wonderful Thanksgiving meal we had at our son's home. My exo-skeleton would definitely become segmented. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:40:00 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Irish Honey Labels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, I tried to research the labeling requirements of Honey and ,in = particular, the size of lettering required. Statutary Instrument 28/1973 gave the following packed net weights = 62.5g; 125g;250g; 375g; 500g; 750g; 1kg; 1.5kg; 2kg; 3kg; 4kg and the = following Imperial wieghts 2oz; 4oz; 8oz; 120z; 1 lb; 1=BDlb; 2lb; 3lb; = 4lb; 5lb; 6lb; 7lb. The size of lettering was according to the following: Container Height of letter no dimension larger than 120mm 1.5mm one or more dimension larger than 120mm, but no dimension larger=20 than 300mm 2.5mm one or more dimension larger than 300mm, but no dimension larger=20 than 450mm 4.0mm =20 I have been unable to find any Irish Statutary Instrument which altered = these sizes; although S.I. 483 of 2002 refers to S.I.28/1973 amongst = others and says that these Orders, insofaar as they require containers = in which goods are packed to bear notices complying with those Orders, = shall not apply to foodstuffs that comply with the Directives and these = Regulations. So does this mean that the minimum size of lettering specified above = does not apply? If so are there other regulations regarding the minimum size of = lettering? The latest directive on Honey 2001/110/EC with its Irish S.I.367 of 2003 = is silent on this matter. Ruary Rudd :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:28:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: Label problems In-Reply-To: <200311280157.hAS1vpe7022477@listserv.albany.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thursday, November 27, 2003, at 08:57 PM, Joe Miller (Bethel NC USA) wrote: > Labelling my jars needs some improvement! > > I switched to some Avery labels with my inkjet > printer and have 2 problems. 1-The ink bleeds with time, especially > the > colors. 2-The label does not put up very well with moisture, in other > words the integrity of the paper does not hold up Dear Joe and all, I also use my inkjet to produce labels for the various sizes and varieties of honey I produce. I also have problems with rain causing the ink on my labels to run. I sell my honey from an honour table at the end of the driveway, so am not always nearby to cover up during a shower. I have always lived with the problem but recently found a local supplier of non water soluble ink to refill inkjet cartridges. I havn't tried it yet, but will next season. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:59:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Winter Wrap >>I am not wrapping the hives this winter because with recent observations I do not think the hives need wrapping. Seems to me that everyone up here in Canada, who winters outside, wraps their hives one way or another. Your wintering in Alaska, and I assume your winters are colder and longer than ours here in Manitoba. You are telling me that you are finding better results by not wrapping? My own opinion, is I don't beleive it to be true. I assume you have cold spells as we do, in fact I think our cold spells come from strong Alaskian Highs. I think the wrap is essential for the hives to tollerate such long cold dry conditions. And not all beeyards are sheltered, wraps are critical against the cold winter wind on the hive. Im new to beekeeping, 6 years in. And learnt by trial and error. I found that in my beeyards, the unwrapped or poorly wrapped hives suffured more losses, deadouts and small weak spring clusters. My thoughts are that the wrap is most effective in the late winter early spring period. It buffers the colonies against the late winter cold snaps we sometimes get when the colonies are starting to brood up. I also think sun heat absortion is very important. I feel that it is nessicary to allow the bees to lossen cluster to reorginize their stores. I think it allows them to prepaire for the next cold blast. I will be watching for your results, good or bad. Just a note, I winter in two chambers, ~170lbs feed up with corn surip. Hives wrapped with 4" fiberglass on sides and 6" on top, wrapped with tar paper. Works good for me, and managing cost about 3-5$/hive/winter Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:11:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Winter Wrap In-Reply-To: <200311301759.hAUHxTe7001775@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Just a note, I winter in two chambers, >Hives wrapped with 4" fiberglass on sides and 6" on top, wrapped >with tar paper. >Ian I'm afraid to use fiberglass insulation around bees. Don't you think the glass fibers get into the hive? Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:42:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Winter Wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> I am not wrapping the hives this winter because with recent > observations I do not think the hives need wrapping. > > Seems to me that everyone up here in Canada, who winters outside, > wraps their hives one way or another. Some people like to play Russian Roulette. Here, the odds and the psychology are about the same. The difference is that when the odds run out, the bees die, not the player. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:02:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Winter Wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Keith Malone wrote this: >>I am not wrapping the hives this winter because with recent observations I do not think the hives need wrapping. To which Ian responded with this: >You are telling me that you are finding better results by not wrapping? My own opinion, is I don't beleive it to be true. Many believe the entire state of Alaska to be a vast sheet of ice and wonder that bees can even be kept here. Alaska is a vast region. It does get COLD, VERY COLD in the interior of the state. In the south-central region that Keith lives in it often is warmer through winter than Canada and northern areas of the lower 48 U.S. states. Interior Alaska residents sometimes jokingly refer to the south-central region of the state as ‘the banana belt’. Most people, to my knowledge, who have bees here don't overwinter, choosing instead to buy new packages each spring. Those in this area that do overwinter, or attempt to, generally do wrap their hives. I agree with Keith, though, in that I'm not convinced it is necessary in this region of Alaska. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:52:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Winter Wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>It does get COLD, VERY COLD in the interior of the state. In the south-central region that Keith lives in it often is warmer through winter than Canada and northern areas of the lower 48 U.S. states. Interior Alaska residents sometimes jokingly refer to the south-central region of the state as ‘the banana belt’. Well, thats a different story then. Talked to a beekeeper from Alaska, likely from the interior, and he painted a picture of an intense short productive honey season, and a long long winter. He wintered his bees indoors, outdoor wintering caused too much winter loss. Moved his business to Wyoming eventually. Tell me, what is your winter generally like, temp and length. I suppose packages are cheap and easy to get in Alaska..... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:41:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Winter Wrap >>I'm afraid to use fiberglass insulation around bees. Don't you think the glass fibers get into the hive? Doesnt seem to. The hives are wrapped with insulation. Don't know how the insulation would get into the hive. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:08:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Winter Wrap In-Reply-To: <200311302141.hAUKsefZ004325@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Don't you think >the glass fibers get into the hive? > > Don't know >how the insulation would get into the hive. Glass fibers stick to propolis and wax on inner cover. Next time you invert the inner cover... Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:33:27 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Winter Wrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ian & All, > I will be watching for > your results, good or bad. > Just a note, I winter in two chambers, ~170lbs feed up with corn surip. > Hives wrapped with 4" fiberglass on sides and 6" on top, wrapped > with tar paper. Works good for me, and managing cost about > 3-5$/hive/winter > I winter in one, two, and three chambers, feed nothing but leave honey on, I leave a 1/2 inch foiled foam board on top of inner cover year around, and if I were to wrap, (which I am not doing this year), I use Reflectix. I expect to lose no more than 20%, but we will see. The ones that do make it will be the type bees I am looking for and not wimps to winter. Even though cold can kill a single bee if exposed to it, cold will not kill a cluster (like George I. has said so adamantly) because they are working together as on organisms. With good quality feed, a good queen (notice I did not say a young queen), plenty of healthy bees, a good roof over head, I think the bees can endure a very cold winter. I think it is more a matter of the length of winter instead of the cold of winter. Even with feeding corn syrup your managing cost is still 3-5$/hive/winter? > Seems to me that everyone up here in Canada, who winters outside, > wraps their hives one way or another. Your wintering in Alaska, and I > assume your winters are colder and longer than ours here in > Manitoba. > Maybe they don't need to and you know what they say about assuming? Many people are only doing as they were taught right or wrong. I decided to see for myself. > You are telling me that you are finding better results by not > wrapping? > I never said I was seeing better results but I did say I noticed no difference in recent years. This year may be different and will be the test for a normal winter where I am located. > My own opinion, is I don't beleive it to be true. > That's OK, I am not as you are. > I assume > you have cold spells as we do, in fact I think our cold spells come from > strong Alaskian Highs. You might be right with your assumptions, but where I am it has a transitional weather pattern not being maritime or interior weather. It can be wet, snowy, cold, windy, dry, freezing or not freezing. I would think you have weather that has all these attributes also, hopefully not all at once. > I think the wrap is essential for the hives to > tollerate such long cold dry conditions. > I used to think the same thing but I set out to see for myself. > And not all beeyards are > sheltered, wraps are critical against the cold winter wind on the hive. > Im new to beekeeping, 6 years in. > A hive needs ventilation also, more than most beekeepers think and I think some wind will not kill the bees. Where I keep my bees we can get some terrible winds, last March we had winds 110 miles per hour come past us. It knocked the roof off two hives and one was totally exposed to the weather for a little time on the top bars, I thought it might die, but this hive gave me a split and some honey and it was coming into its third summer without any treats at all. This hive should be dead now because of mites to most beekeepers thinking. > And learnt by trial and error. I found > that in my beeyards, the unwrapped or poorly wrapped hives suffured > more losses, deadouts and small weak spring clusters. > In this trail and error, did you ever not feed some hives and instead leave them with honey to winter on. In these trails did you ever notice any dead outs with soiled entrances, soiled top bars, unripened sugar syrup stores, or any with no feed left. If so it could be pointing to a problem of poor winter stores and not whether the winter was cold or not or whether they were wrapped or not. > My thoughts > are that the wrap is most effective in the late winter early spring period. > It buffers the colonies against the late winter cold snaps we > sometimes get when the colonies are starting to brood up. > The colonies I keep start brooding when pollen starts coming in in early April, by this time no wrap will be needed even if they were wrapped. Perhaps you are keeping a strain of bee that is not suited for your area and is not acclimated to your location. > I also > think sun heat absortion is very important. I feel that it is nessicary to > allow the bees to lossen cluster to reorginize their stores. > If a hive is wrapped you will not get this effect, wrapping a hive insulates from two directions normally. > I will be watching for > your results, good or bad. > I would hope you would be wishing me good results and not bad ones. Just a note; I would be looking at your strain of bees your keeping and the quality of your stores used for wintering. These were factors I found important for wintering in Alaska and not the wrap. . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Caucasian Bee Keeper http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::