From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:45:19 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.6 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813A048504 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDdDJn012145 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0401D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 91867 Lines: 2118 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:23:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Program presenters wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am in charge of scheduling programs for the South Alabama Beekeepers' Association which meets in Mobile, Alabama on the first Thursday of the month. I am looking for people who would be willing to present a program to the club's members. The topics could be anything pertaining to the hobby/business of beekeeping and applicable to the time of year of the meeting. Right now I would be interested in presenters who could cover the topics of queen rearing, commercial package bees, spring management practices, bee pasturage that can found in this area, etc. If anyone who lives in the lower Alabama area, southeast Mississippi area, the Florida panhandle, or anyone who would be willing to make the trip here, I would be very interested in talking to you about details. Mike Stoops - Vice President mws@frontiernet.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:10:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Fw: Re: [BEE-L] raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Nettlebeck" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:55 PM Subject: Re: Re: [BEE-L] raising queens > > > > > I said: > > I am afraid that the qualities obtained by breeding bees need to be > > maintained and cannot be expected to be self-propagating. I think there is > a > > tendency to revert to generic types. > > > > Dave: > > Your statement above is only true if you do not take enough care in > > selection or work with poor starting material. > Hello Dave , Peter and All, > I have enjoyed the posts on the subject. > All of nature has trade offs.You can't find one genetic type to fit all > environmental areas.All work will be ongoing. > The tools that we use ( II ) or open breeding are just tools to reach a > place we want to be. > The traits that WE want are elusive.The genes and loci change from > generation to generation. > You can start with a good trait ( varroa resistance ) and have other traits > that get in your way. > We want it our way. What is our way ? That is up to the beekeeper. I have > been having fun with the Russian stock > starting point. No chemicals in 3 years. Queen cells all over the place.Not > all hives have hygienic behavior. > One needs to select out the most important trait and work on the rest. > Bee breeding is complex. Read Bee Genetics an Breeding by Dr. Rinderer. I > have been reading it since 1986 > when it came out. I'm slow. It does give you a perspective of what we are up > against. Of what we know , nature is wonderful > It is very good to share what we see and think. It helps others. > One line of bee will not fit all areas.At one time , we did come close, > because of all of the feral colonies in our areas > to breed with. Now we are in box one, frame one. > Beekeeping has changed and we have to change with it. Bee genetics is > complex with many uncontrolled paths > for us to go down. Enjoy the trip , we have no choice. > Best Regards > Roy Nettlebeck > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:48:30 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: raising queens I am certainly no expert in the mechanics of queen breeding, but I do have one question that has nagged at me for years. The question involves "regression to the mean", and "polygenic traits". The traits of value in beekeeping are complex - much more complex than the simple examples of "blue eyed versus brown eyed" offspring that are used as examples in school. One would expect that these traits are much more likely to be not only polygenic, but also independent of the "enviornmental factors" often trotted out by genetics specialists when cornered and questioned closely about the mechanics of breeding for complex traits in the absence of extreme changes in environment to kill off most of the population not having a specific mutation. The old saw about "mutation-based advantages that produce more offspring" really does not apply either when bees are bred by humans. Even more to the point, everyone tries to prevent swarming, which, for a bee colony, is "producing offspring". So, if two very tall parents do not assure even taller offspring, but instead produce offspring that vary, but are "closer to the population mean" than the parents (shorter, on average), how does ANY bee breeding strategy assure sucess in the inheritance of traits that are "complex"? I'm not concerned about simple inherited traits, such as "blue eyed versus brown eyed", but those that refuse to follow a "3:1 Mendelian ratio", and tend to follow a continuous distribution. If regression to the mean were not a serious limitation, we would have long ago bred lab rats that had IQs higher than the grad students charged with caring for them. :) Anyone got a clue? jim (The check's in the mail. My dog ate my homework. Your spam filter must have deleted it.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:55:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Fungus vs. Varroa: A New Tool? >>pplication can be purchased at a reasonable price since it was developed with taxpayers dollars. That is the whole problem right now. Private money is now needed to further produce and market this product. I was told by a gentleman actually involved in the testing this fungus, that it will never get out into the market place. It costs so much to produce. And there is not a big enough payback to make this venture feasable. Really too bad for the beekeeping industry, but thats how things go. I doubt I would pay more than $10 for the treatment anyway, and I think most beekeeper would think the same. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:40:18 -0500 Reply-To: beestwo@oldmoose.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: bringing honey from the US to Japan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can anyone on the list tell me if there are restrictions about the importing of honey from the US into Japan? I'd like to bring some as gifts for people there if I visit. Thanks. --glen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:16:09 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: raising queens Comments: To: James Fischer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Wrote > The traits of value in beekeeping are complex - > much more complex than the simple examples of > "blue eyed versus brown eyed" offspring that > are used as examples in school. Hi Jim and All, This is a very good place to start. We work on finding out what is recessive and what is dominate. Thanks to the work of Dr. Laidlaw and Dr. Page Jr. , we have some mating designs. The problem comes in with the selection of traits. You have to find the traits that you want. Guess what? You maybe finding them one at a time in different colony's. Now you have to breed in and out for the right traits that you want. In simple terms, you keep selecting. We have some tools to work with now. II has its place and makes things move much faster that left up to natural breeding. It is much better to keep the trait numbers down to a few. I don't worry about swarming with my Russian stock. They like to keep queen cells all the time anyway. I'm interested in Varroa. If they can keep them down , I'm happy. I do need bees that make honey and winter well. Right now that is what I have. 3 years of selection and a lot of requeening.. Even more to the > point, everyone tries to prevent swarming, which, > for a bee colony, is "producing offspring". This is a very good point. Think about, the bees need to keep there species going. Man wants to control an important natural trait. Some bees swarm at a drop of a hat. We do not have to live with that at all.So we select for a lower level of swarming and do measures to keep it down. I have a picture of a deep frame with 27 queen cells on it. That was a record for me. It was at the start of my Russian work. Now I have a few swarms that go off every year. That's what I want.The bees want it also. I'm getting bees out into nature that can survive Varroa. That's win - win. how does ANY bee breeding strategy > assure success in the inheritance of traits that are "complex"? I can not see any way to have a straight walk to the traits that you want. We have equations and mating designs to work with and that's as close as we can get. Nature is complex , much more complex than we can comprehend. Enjoy the trip of learning, one step at a time. Probability is as close as we can come , with the knowledge that we have at this time. You can learn from the bees. Your observation , is the best tool you have.Don't think you have the answers ,how can you learn if you carry a bias. Best Regards Roy :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:47:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: bringing honey from the US to Japan On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:40:18 -0500, Glen B. Glater wrote: "Can anyone on the list tell me if there are restrictions about the importing of honey from the US into Japan? I'd like to bring some as gifts for people there if I visit." My wife is Japanese and it is a custom to bring a gift to anyone that you may visit. Every summer she will return to her parents home in Tochigi, often with 15 to 20 pounds of honey in an assortment of our glass and plastic ranging from 8 ounces to two pounds as gifts to all that she may visit. There never has been a problem either here or in Japan; all our honey is labeled to FDA standards. Presentation of a special gift shortly after or right upon arrival of a visit is a matter of custom in Japan; have a great trip. Chuck Norton NORTON'S NUT & HONEY FARM Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:51:29 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bee communication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 22/01/04 05:02:27 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > hi chris, > i don't know much about "what bees see", only what i have read and > it was > my understanding that bees see ultraviolet to the near red range, but not > into the infrared at all. > > You are correct in saying that bees see into the ultra-violet but not into > the infra red. However it seems that they (and many other insects) are > sensitive to, and make use of, the very large infra red band width using their > antennae. It has been suggested that some of the hairs on bees' antennae act as > aerial arrays tuned into particular frequencies. > > Some insects at least give off infra red patterns. I have seen a photo of a > shield bug with what appeared to be a row of glowing portholes around its > perimeter. However it was taken with specialised equipment. > > Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:07:03 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Layne Westover Subject: Re: bringing honey from the US to Japan Comments: To: bees2@oldmoose.com, beestwo@oldmoose.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Glen, My wife is from Japan and I am a hobby beekeeper. She always takes my honey with her as gifts when she goes to Japan, and we have never had any trouble with it. Just pack it so it will not break. It's also nice to either wrap the gift or put it in a nice gift bag. Apparently it's considered to be ill mannered to just hand something unwrapped to someone as a present. If you were taking the honey to sell, rather than as gifts, then it might be a different story. I don't know the restrictions on importing honey to sell from the U.S. into Japan. Good luck, Layne Westover, College Station, Texas p.s., as a matter of fact, my wife is going back to Japan for a visit in February and has asked me to prepare some bottles of honey for her to take as gifts to family and friends. As you probably know, Japanese people are big on giving gifts. >>> bees2@oldmoose.com 1/22/04 9:40:18 AM >>> Can anyone on the list tell me if there are restrictions about the importing of honey from the US into Japan? I'd like to bring some as gifts for people there if I visit. Thanks. --glen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 06:30:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: bringing honey from the US to Japan In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-480F531E; boundary="=======BEF43B8=======" --=======BEF43B8======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-480F531E; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > It's also nice >to either wrap the gift or put it in a nice gift bag. Wrapping it before you get on the plane will probably result in problems...airport security, and Japanese customs will surely make you unwrap it...at least. Mike --=======BEF43B8=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:21:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: bringing honey from the US to Japan The last time I brought some honey into the US I told the customs agent about it just to be safe, and she said as long as it was a bottle of honey it was fine, but if it were some comb honey it wouldn't be fine. She used the word processed to describe the difference, which on one level offended me, as I sell my honey as raw, even though it's in bottles. But of course I just smiled and said thanks. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: raising queens Roy writes: >You have to find the traits that you want. Guess what? You maybe finding them one at a time in different colonies. To make matters more complicated (just what we need, right?) there may be different traits in the same colony, due to the fact that the workers may have very different fathers. And when you try to raise queens from such a colony, you don't know if the larvae you select are carrying the trait you want... It seems as if nature's plan for honey bees is to do everything to prevent inbreeding (and most breeding schemes get dangerously close to this problem. think of the weaknesses inherent in heavily selected animals). There are distinct varieties of honey bee, like carniolans, cape bees, etc., but these formed naturally in large groups in relative isolation over many thousands of years. Attempts to speed up such a process invites inbreeding. But to not attempt to breed the bees means relying on natural processes which seem to favor outcrossing and reversion to a "mongrel" type. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:06:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jean-Marie van Dyck Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <002001c3e124$940391c0$7e770543@roy693054cf962> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Jim Wrote >> The traits of value in beekeeping are complex - >> much more complex than the simple examples of >> "blue eyed versus brown eyed" offspring that >> are used as examples in school. Hi all, Hello Jim! As you pointed out, the breeding, even by using selected reproducers, ALWAYS give subjects whose qualities vary. They all don't correspond to the criteria required by the beebreeder. Thus to raise always requires a later choice to continue to maintain the required criteria at the top. One of our best European Buckfast bee breeder (Luxembourgish Paul Jungels - http://www.apisjungels.lu -, Br. Adam disciple) published last year his actual method of "Evaluation of the colonies" with some traits unique on the world. Eleven traits are analysed. Unfortunately in German ... http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/artcl/PJ01Auswertung.html I published it in French for "Abeilles&Cie", journal of the "CARI asbl" "Evaluation des colonies, aux limites du possible" ... http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/artcl/PJ01Evaluation.html This article would deserve to be put at the disposal of the English speaking bee world! But my English is such poor as I'm unable to do it! If someone ... he'll be acknoledge ... the ball is in your camp! Greetings Jean-Marie Van Dyck :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:54:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Karla=20Barquero?= Subject: Conference on Tropical Beekeeping (UNA-CINAT) Comments: To: beattieb@onetel.net.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Mr. / Mrs., We would herewith like to remind you that we organize with APIMONDIA a "Conference on Tropical Beekeeping: Research and Development for Pollination and Conservation" from 22 to 25 February. We have many interesting speakers for sessions about pollination of tropical crops (Chairman Dr. Keith Delaplane), pollination ecology (Dr. Peter Kevan, chairman) and Conservation of natural pollinators in tropical ecosystems (Dr. Dan Eisikowitch, chairmen) and many more. On 25 February we are planning technical field visits to a melon growing farm and tropical greenhouse, where pollination is with honeybees and stingless bees. (Simultaneous translation English-Spanish will be provided). For registration, hotel booking and submission of abstract see on the Apimondia website: http://www.apiservices.com/apimondia/index_us.htm We look forward to meet you there, this is a unique international event about pollination in the tropics, Yours sincerely, Dr. Johan W. van Veen Organizing Committe PRAM PO Box 475 - 3000 Heredia Costa Rica Fax: ++506 - 2377043 E-mail: lsanchez@una.ac.cr _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Información de Estados Unidos y América Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias. Visítanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:32:30 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: West Virginia, Ag Day is Monday, February 2, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Important Notice to All WV Beekeepers > Ag Day is Monday, February 2, 2004 > Why should YOU go to the state capitol and get involved? 1. West Virginia Beekeepers Association has a display. We need beekeepers to help explain the importance of honeybees. 2. It is an opportunity to talk with your legislators. 3. You can help distribute complimentary jars of honey to each legislator along with an information sheet outlining the importance of supporting and funding the state apiary program. 4. It is important that we have a good turnout. If only a few beekeepers care enough to show up, it might send the message that beekeeping isn't all that important in West Virginia. When you come to Ag. Day: 1. Park free at Laidley Field and ride to the capitol on the shuttle bus. 2. Let me know if you need a map to reach the parking area. 3. Our display is on the main floor in the rotunda area. Met here at 9:00 A.M. 4. I will make name tags for each beekeeper so let me know who's coming. 5. Recruit some of your fellow beekeepers and I'll see you at the capitol. Gordon Mead 20 Shady Lane Winfield WV 25213 (304) 562-3339 E-mail: geniebee@juno.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:56:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Sturman Subject: Re: bringing honey from the US to Japan Comments: To: bees2@OLDMOOSE.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Glen, A friend of mine at work is Japanese and travels to Japan sometimes. She sent me the following link which should be helpful. http://www.narita-airport-customs.go.jp/ I would never think that honey would be prohibited anywhere as nothing can live in it. If you were bringing in large quantities of it for sale, I could see a government imposing tariffs or restrictions to protect their own national honey interests, but to bring some in for gifts would be negligible. Any counter opinions? John Sturman Blue Moon Farm Lexington, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:28:33 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen Raising MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 23/01/04 05:03:27 GMT Standard Time,Jim writes: > but I do have one question > that has nagged at me for years. > > The question involves "regression to the mean", > and "polygenic traits". > > The traits of value in beekeeping are complex - > much more complex than the simple examples of > "blue eyed versus brown eyed" offspring that > are used as examples in school. > It rather depends what mean means. I once used the word to describe myself on a US based list and was told that I should have written parsimonious. I could have written stingy with a soft g but possibly Jim means stingy with a hard g in this instance. Or possibly the geometric mean of n genes affecting polygenic traits; or even the arithmetic mean generally loosely known as the average. Whatever he means, I think the answer lies in the drones. If the queens produced are less fit (in Darwinian terms) for the environment in which they be than those that are more so, then they will produce less drones and so shall have less influence on subsequent generations. Then we have a problem of perception. The beekeeper, looking perhaps for good temper, or fecundity out of season, will perceive regression to the mean. Darwin on the other hand would perceive adaptation to the local environment. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:19:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: bringing honey from the US to Japan In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20040123114953.01b4b438@bluemoonfarm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No Honey bee products are allowed in New Zealand no matter how it is packaged even products with bee products are not allowed period. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 John Sturman wrote: > > > I would never think that honey would be prohibited anywhere as nothing > can live in it. > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 05:59:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: ABF Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I'm back home finally, after the ABF meeting in Jacksonville. I missed the Texas meeting, but would have like to have made that one too. I understand that Charlie was a speaker there, so maybe he can mention a few high points. As always the ABF meeting was excellent, with more sessions that any one person could take in and a vast display area with vendors offering familiar equipment, as well as some things we'd never seen before. Off the top of my head, I'll mention a few things that stick in my mind. Tom Rindererer explained that the Russian bee project is over, and that they are now into a selection project, sifting and sorting through the genetic material that they imported previously. The quarantine location remains available and can be used in the future. He stated that they had thrown out more of the lines that did not make the cut, and have simplified the descriptions. They continue to select and breed. The most important message, to my ears,was that the Russian stock today is not what it was last year, and what it was last year is not what it was the year before. Buyers need to obtain stock from breeders that stay up to date and have a variety of current stock. Using only a few breeders or the same breeder in successive years will result in bees that are not representative of the Russian project. Although he did not specifically say so, I deduced from his comments that we need to be selective in what we believe, since many of the reports we hear about the Russians are from people with impure or old stock from doubtful sources, or who only have an unrepresentative sample. John Harbo spoke about his work and showed a list of traits that they consider to have greater and less potential for varroa tolerance. The list went from almost 100% heritable traits to traits that were almost totally non-heritable. I did not take notes, but, from memory, recall that the percentage of mites on bees P-MIB was something like .89 and SMR was .46, while low mite counts was -- if I remember right -- at the bottom at .1(?) That has very significant meaning for those trying to select bees for varroa tolerance by counting mites. My understanding is that P-MIB appears most promising and is a target for ongoing work. P-MIB (inverse of phoresy) refers to the ratio of varroa that are found in brood vs. the number on adult bees at any given time. The normal number discussed was in the vicinity of 66% in brood. With such a high percentage in the brood, protected and reproducing, mites quickly build up, however, in some colonies, due to some property of the bees, the number can be half that or less. In such colonies, the mite reproduction rate is much lower, and, since the mites are most vulnerable to accidents when phoretic, the attrition rate is higher as well. As a result, hives with low P-MIB will have much lower mite build-up rates and possibly be able to manage varroa without assistance. Since the trait is highly heritable, breeding for it may prove worthwhile. The work is still in the early stages, and, so far, my understanding is that it is not known whether the trait is associated with any undesirable characteristics. A screened bottom board from Quebec was on sale in the display area. Alexandre Cote, an associate of Jean Pierre Chapleau was offering their design for sale. It is nicely made, has a screen and drawer that slides left and right. They used it last year to treat varroa and tracheal by placing a paper towel in the drawer and squirting formic onto it. I understand they did this three times and lost only 4% over winter. This past winter, many beekeepers in Quebec lost anywhere from 50 to 100% and blamed it on resistant mites, so their relative success appears significant. Of course, Jean Pierre is a very good beekeeper and queen breeder, and that factors into the success as well. His site is at http://www.reineschapleau.wd1.net/ Of course there was much more, but these are the first items to come to mind. I'll likely write more later, here or in my diary, as time permits. Hopefully others will add their comments and recollections, although I did not meet as many BEE-L people there as sometimes. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:52:07 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: david flathman Subject: Re: Queen Raising Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Regarding the drones. Half of the equation: queens and drones, is the drones. Eliminate the drones from all of the hives except those showing traits we wish to promote. Are drones loyal to their home hive? The unwanted drones could be trapped as they return to their hive and be eliminated from the potential breeding stock. David _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:15:28 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: Douglas Whynott In-Reply-To: <200312061857.hB6FtDJV028969@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear BEE-L subscribers, A couple of years ago I posted a request on BEE-L but received no response. Hence, I repeat the request here. Douglas Whynott wrote a most interesting book, "Following the Bloom," about migratory beekeeping. He sent me an e-mail message four years ago, but I was unable to contact him via that e-mail address. Do any of you know how I can contact him? I would deeply appreciate some information. ("Google" didn't help much, nor did the "person search" I use.) Many thanks in advance. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm ************************************************************* * "People have a right to their opinions -- * but that doesn't mean all opinions are of equal value." * * Pot Shot #9108 by Ashleigh Brilliant, used by permission ************************************************************* :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:45:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: ABF Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I am also back from my month long trek across the U.S. and attendance at the ABF meeting in Jacksonville, Florida. I especially enjoyed meeting Aaron Morris and seeing my friend Allen Dick again! Russian bee project by Tom Rinderer: The important point to remember is that all production queens which were offered for sale last year and I expect this year are not "pure" Russian but a cross with each queen breeders best line. I only found one breeder (now deceased) which was willing to provide pure Russian production queens last year. The person in charge this year has declined so far to provide pure Russian production queens and she says: "Bob you are the only person which did not complain and had success with introduction of the pure Russian queens ". As I wrote in "Bee Culture" the introduction of pure Russian queens is not easy but devote the time and effort and you will be successful. Some introductions took two weeks. Yes two weeks and the hand feeding of caged queens as the Italians would not feed the queens. The Italians raised queen cells while caged Russian queens were in the hive and would honor the queen cells over the caged Russain queens if not cut out on a regular basis. A big difference exists in varroa tollerance between the pure Russian and the crosses. It is a shame that pure production queens of the Russian line are not available . If a BEE-L person has found pure Russian production queens available please post. A handful of U.S. commercial beekeepers have got a large number of pure Russian hives. You can buy the II Russian breeder queen *but* you need pure Russian drones for open mating so it will take two years and two Russian breeder queens of different linage to raise your own *if* you have got a remote mating area to start your own pure Russian line. It is my opinion that the Russian bee in its pure form could be hard to find in ten years in the U.S. unless the Russian project is accepted by queen breeders. All I have talked to are content to sell crosses of daughters of II Russian queens open mated to their best lines of Italians or carniolans. Allen in reference to the work of Dr. Harbo & Dr. Harris: Allen said: As a result, hives with low P-MIB will have much lower mite build-up rates and possibly be able to manage varroa without assistance. Since the trait is highly heritable, breeding for it may prove worthwhile. Searching for P-MIB in hives is certainly taking varroa research to a new level as did SMR research. I was able to talk for around forty five minutes privately with Dr. Harbo in regards to my own projects and actually many beekeeping subjects. Dr. Harbo is very optimistic he will eventually arrive at a bee which will through breeding be able to tolerate varroa untreated. Although several queen producers say they have already got such a bee I would use caution. Testing for the SMR trait is very labor intensive and I myself are only now getting the process down for my small scale experiments . Testing for P-MIB is even of much higher labor intensive and takes a even greater attending to detail as the number of mites in brood at any given time can vary for many reasons. One has to keep in mind that it took 6 years for the bee lab to isolate the SMR trait and it might take another 6 years to isolate the P-MIB trait. The U.S. bee labs have certainly given us bees which can be treated less often which in my opinion is a degree of success. Not what we had hoped for but I remain optimistic. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:10:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Queen Raising Regarding the drones. Half of the equation: queens and drones, is the drones. Eliminate the drones from all of the hives except those showing traits we wish to promote. Are drones loyal to their home hive? The unwanted drones could be trapped as they return to their hive and be eliminated from the potential breeding stock. reply: The above brings up all the things we have be talking about. First, the drones do not represent an equal half at all. Drones are haploid for one thing, for another -- the queen mates with several drones which may not be even remotely alike. Second, how will you get rid of all the drones you don't want in other people's hives, trees, etc.? The only way this would be possible would be if you are the sole beekeeper on some island somewhere. (This has been done, of course) Finally, if you were able to isolate the drones and queens you think you want, you are headed straight for an inbreeding situation. I have seen heavily inbred bees: most of the eggs fail to hatch. The bees cann't build up and and the colony fails pretty quickly. Anyone interested in queen rearing would do well to read Laidlaw's work. Line breeding is possible, but it must be done with a enough population to prevent inbreeding, -- and a closed population, or you get nowhere. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:53:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "John A. Howe" Subject: wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's so bitter cold in NYC this year that I am thinking of wrapping my = hives. Has anybody tried bubblewrap before. That's what I'm thinking. = Any comments? John Howe 18 Fort Greene Place Brooklyn, NY 11217 718-858-6891 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 20:29:07 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please make sure they have ventilation. Russ Dean :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:12:38 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: wrapping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi John & All, >Has anybody tried bubblewrap before. That's what I'm thinking. Any >comments? > There is a better material to use than just plain old Bubble wrap, it is called Refectix, which is a double bubble sandwiched with foil on both sides. I have used it in the past and I will use it in the future if I think wrapping in needed. Below are two URL's, one for my web site where near the bottom of the home page I have a picture of one hive wrapped with reflectix along with links for info on Reflectix. The other URL is for a site that shows hives wrapped with reflectix in Quebec. http://balder.prohosting.com/~starrier/index.htm For English version http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient-menuext&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ereineschapleau%2Ewd1%2Enet%2Farticles%2Fhivernage%2Efr%2Ehtml and for French version http://www.reineschapleau.wd1.net/articles/hivernage.fr.html Make sure top is insulated and the hive is well ventilated when done wrapping. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com/ , http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 07:19:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "John A. Howe" Subject: Re: wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ventilastion where. I have styrofoamn top covers and screened bottom boards with trays inserted. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Dean" To: Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] wrapping > Please make sure they have ventilation. > > Russ Dean > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 05:29:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It's so bitter cold in NYC this year that I am thinking of wrapping my hives. > Has anybody tried bubblewrap before. That's what I'm thinking. Any comments? It is not too late to wrap. Most of the benefit of the wrapping actually comes at the end of the winter and in spring, but be careful not to disturb the bees when you are doing it. If possible, wait for a warm day, but if you are careful not to bang them around, you may be fine. There is a great deal of detail -- and opinion -- about wrapping in the archives. A search could prove rewarding. Try using different key words and also partial words, with the Substring search box checked to pick up plurals and other permutations of the word(s). As for the bubble pack, it is used sucessfully. Whether it is optimal or not, I don't know, but doubt it. That probably depends on a lot of things. Many of us, however, are convinced that using a wrap that has a black outer surface is superior due to the solar gain that can occur on sunny days. Nonetheless, anything may be better than nothing, especially if your hives are drafty. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:45:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's bitter cold here today at minus 38o (C and F) ! I wintered outdoors for many years here in Quebec using the "Western 4 Pack" system and made my own wraps as per the original Alberta plans. It worked very well. I always thought of using "thermofoil" ( construction bubble wrap ) and one year I did. It didn't work for me! I researched the product on the internet and it is a radiant barrier and has very little insulation value. It may work well in regions that have used tar paper or no wrap. In this region the hives that are wintered outside would be buried in the snow at this time of the year. This insulates, and more important stops "wind-chill". Peter - who's staying indoors today! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A. Howe" Sent: January 25, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: [BEE-L] wrapping It's so bitter cold in NYC this year that I am thinking of wrapping my hives. Has anybody tried bubblewrap before. That's what I'm thinking. Any comments? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:08:32 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Screened bottom board? You've got it covered. And leave the top cover cracked open a bit. This will let the moisture out thru that hole in middle of the inner cover. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:32:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ed Geels Subject: Wrapping Hives I wrapped my one hive with a 2 inches layer of styrofoam with reflectix over that. Reflectix is a double bubble wrap with inner and outer layers of aluminum foil. I taped it on and sealed it with aluminum tape also as duct tape is not recommended over reflectix. It was almost 50 degrees on Friday and a lot of bees came out and were flying around in the back yard. They looked fine. I have a bottom entrance and a top entrance for ventilation. Yesterday we got 6 inches of snow and today its still snowing here in the Siberia of Iowa (NW Iowa). Edwin Geels :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:40:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Small cells bees & varroa (was Oxalic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Dennis & All, Dennis said: My small cell hives have been able to tolerate the mites without treatment going on four years now so varroa mites are a non-issue with them. Wow ! Has it been four years since you started small cell? Time really flies! I remember when you were only talking about small cell on BEE-L! If I understand correctly you have just finished your full third year? In order to compare bees on small cell to my own research with SMR queens daughters and the Russian lines what would you say is the average 24 hour natural varroa fall in August with your small cell bees if you do not mind sharing the information. Only wanting information and not to put you on the spot you can email me directly if you wish. Have you noticed a increase in varroa counts each spring for each year you leave the bees untreated? Thanks in advance! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:35:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Screened bottom board? You've got it covered. And leave the top cover cracked > open a bit. This will let the moisture out thru that hole in middle of the > inner cover. Keep in mind that, if the hives are in an area which is at all windswept, and if the screens are exposed to drifting snow, that the wind may pack the hive entirely full of snow from the bottom. That will kill your bees. If the area is protected and/or the bottom is shielded from drifting, no worries. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ A new pollen substitute? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:18:47 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: wrapping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'd like to get a clarification on using screened bottoms in the winter. My understanding is that bottom screens are ok as long as there is a dead air space underneath them (no chance of drafts). I would think one needs to make sure that a hive w/ a screened bottom board is on a hive stand that will keep out drafts? I have seen in books double-prong, H-shaped hive stands made out of 2x4's that take 2 hives each. The stands look like this: ------------------ | | | | ------------------ In the summer the two hives are set a few inches apart and get plenty of ventilation as they stradle the prongs. In the winter, the hives are supposed to be pushed together tight. The prongs in the H stand end up underneath the outer sides of the bottom boards and create dead air space underneath the hives. I have never used these and have a question: won't the top covers prevent the two hives from being pushed together? It seems there would be about 1 1/2 in. of separation between the hives because of the top covers. How does this work? Thank you. Waldemar Long Island, NY ============================================= Keep in mind that, if the hives are in an area which is at all windswept, and if the screens are exposed to drifting snow, that the wind may pack the hive entirely full of snow from the bottom. That will kill your bees. If the area is protected and/or the bottom is shielded from drifting, no worries. allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:08:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Stein Subject: Re: wrapping In-Reply-To: <20040126.121859.18463.1168721@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> >I have never used these and have a question: won't the top covers prevent >the two hives from being pushed together? It seems there would be about >1 1/2 in. of separation between the hives because of the top covers. >How does this work? In the November 2003 issue of the ABJ, p. 891- 892, Glen L. Stanley describes how he prepares his hives for winter. He creates the dead space under the hives as you mention and removes the top covers and places insulation on top of the inner cover. This allows the hives to be placed close together. Jim -- ----------------------------------------------------------- jstein@worldnet.att.net ----------------------------------------------------------- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:54:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: wrapping bubble pack, it is used sucessfully. Whether it is optimal or >not, I don't know, but doubt it. That probably depends on a lot of things. >Many of us, however, are convinced that using a wrap that has a black outer >surface is superior due to the solar gain that can occur on sunny days. I agree, I feel solar heat is important on the hive packs when wintering in cold climates. Perhaps it gives them a bit of a break from the cold of the winter during sunny winter days Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:50:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rosalind James Subject: Re: Fungus vs. Varroa: A New Tool? I am responding to the message below. I am currently working on developing a fungus for control of varroa, and posted a message previously, so I won't bother to re-introduce myself. I would disagree with whoever said that such a product will never make it to market--I am, at least, more optimistic. I think that chances are good you will eventually see a product, but you are right, keeping the price resonable is one of the biggest challenges. We were once told that bee keepers would not be willing to pay more than $1-2 for a treatment, so I am happy to see you might be willing to pay as much as $10! Hopefully it will not be that expensive! It is true that chemical pesticides are cheaper to produce than fungi, so it is likely that a fungal product will cost the bee keeper more than current pesticide strips, but hopefully not much more. So, do not lose hope yet. The project is not dead in the water, and we are working hard to get private industry interested. Dr. Rosalind James USDA-ARS Bee Biology and Systematics Laboratory Logan, UT On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:55:58 -0500, Ian wrote: >>>pplication can be purchased at a reasonable price since it was >developed with taxpayers dollars. > >That is the whole problem right now. Private money is now needed to >further produce and market this product. I was told by a gentleman >actually involved in the testing this fungus, that it will never get out into >the market place. It costs so much to produce. And there is not a big >enough payback to make this venture feasable. Really too bad for the >beekeeping industry, but thats how things go. I doubt I would pay >more than $10 for the treatment anyway, and I think most beekeeper >would think the same. > >Ian > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:00:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: Fungus vs. Varroa: A New Tool? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would be more than willing to use a product that would not put chemicals into the hive. I know there are those that stand by the "Tried and True" but as we have all seen, resistance is inevitable. Coleene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosalind James" To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Fungus vs. Varroa: A New Tool? I am responding to the message below. I am currently working on developing a fungus for control of varroa, and posted a message previously, so I won't bother to re-introduce myself. I would disagree with whoever said that such a product will never make it to market--I am, at least, more optimistic. I think that chances are good you will eventually see a product, but you are right, keeping the price resonable is one of the biggest challenges. We were once told that bee keepers would not be willing to pay more than $1-2 for a treatment, so I am happy to see you might be willing to pay as much as $10! Hopefully it will not be that expensive! It is true that chemical pesticides are cheaper to produce than fungi, so it is likely that a fungal product will cost the bee keeper more than current pesticide strips, but hopefully not much more. So, do not lose hope yet. The project is not dead in the water, and we are working hard to get private industry interested. Dr. Rosalind James USDA-ARS Bee Biology and Systematics Laboratory Logan, UT On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:55:58 -0500, Ian wrote: >>>pplication can be purchased at a reasonable price since it was >developed with taxpayers dollars. > >That is the whole problem right now. Private money is now needed to >further produce and market this product. I was told by a gentleman >actually involved in the testing this fungus, that it will never get out into >the market place. It costs so much to produce. And there is not a big >enough payback to make this venture feasable. Really too bad for the >beekeeping industry, but thats how things go. I doubt I would pay >more than $10 for the treatment anyway, and I think most beekeeper >would think the same. > >Ian > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:34:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: bringing honey from the US to Japan In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20040123114953.01b4b438@bluemoonfarm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Jan 23, 2004, at 11:56 AM, John Sturman wrote: > I would never think that honey would be prohibited anywhere as nothing > can live in it. Hi John and all I was surprised and pleased with the knowledge of the customs officials in Christchurch New Zealand. We arrived from Australia with a few samples of Tasmanian honey in tow. New Zealand does not have EFB and will, therefore, not allow honey from areas with EFB. I would be pleased if Canadian customs people were as diligent. In future I will check each country's rules before leaving home. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:58:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: ISBA Journal - Free Download In-Reply-To: <200401270500.i0R4Vtcu022646@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The February 2004 issue of ISBA Journal is available for free download from www.HoosierBuzz.com/document A compilation of some news stories plus other interesting things. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:17:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aula apicola Subject: IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AZUQUECA DE HENARES CITY COUNCIL IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST. The Environment and Culture Council of The Excellency of Azuqueca de = Henares City Government, through the Municipal Apiculture School, = announces the following apiculture photography contest, ruled by the = following=20 RULES PARTICIPANTS: Any citizen or entity in any country in the world may = participate in this contest. TOPIC: The topic to expound will be apiculture in any of its aspects, = biology, flora, products, bee hives and bee yards, customs and = uses, commerce, promotion, art, etc. Photographs must be original and = unpublished. There will be an additional prize for published photographs of historic = or artistic value. TECHNIQUE: All, including digital photography, in black and white or = color. CATEGORIES: The Following categories are established. Single photographs. Reports: Three to five photographs per theme.=20 Historic photographs PRESENTATION: Photographs may be presented: In unframed paper and must have a minimum size of 13X18 cm. In informatics support, CD etc. By E-mail to aulaapicola@jet.es The number of photographs per author shall be limited to five, in either = report or single form.=20 MAILING: Photographs shall be mailed free of charge to:=20 III Concurso Internacional de Fotograf=EDa Ap=EDcola Concejal=EDa del Medio Ambiente Excmo. Ayuntamiento de Azuqueca de Henares 19200 Guadalajara, Spain Or by E-mail to aulaapicola@jet.es Each photograph shall include the next information: Title of the = presentation, name and address of the author, identity card or passport = number, account bank number whit swif code, in order to pay the price if = became winner, short curriculum vitae and E-mail if you have, and the = category in which the author desires to participate. (Report, single or = historic). TIME LIMIT: Photographs may be submitted from the date of announcement = of the rules for presentation until April 30, 2004. JUDGES: Judges will be formed by personnel of the Culture and = Environment Council, as well as by persons from = photograph=20 Entities and presided by his Excellency the Mayor or his designee whose = decision is not contestable. PRIZES. The following prizes are established. Individual photograph category: First prize: 500 Euros and title. Second prize: 400 Euros and title.=20 Third prize: 300 Euros and title. Report category: (3 to 5 photographs) for this entry there shall be only = one prize 500 Euros and title. Historic category: 300 Euros and title. Payment of prizes shall be made net after deduction of transfer fees and = taxes. ANNOUNCEMENT: The wining photographs shall be published on May 15, 2004 = in newspapers, trade magazines, Internet, etc. winners = shall be notified in person. Winning photographs shall become property of the City Council of = Azuqueca de Henares who may request the original negatives, slides or = computer discs. PRESENTATION: Participating photographs will be shown at the Culture = Hall, Azuqueca de Henares from 12 to 30 May 2004. The=20 Selected photographs shall also be show at an itinerant exibition which = will be offered free to whon it may concern until Aplil 30 2005.=20 CATALOGUE: Whit the selection of photos, a full colour catalogue will be = edited. Near every photo will appear the data of every author. An issue of this catalogue will be send free to every participant.=20 RETURN OF NON-WINNING PHOTOGRAPHS: All the photographs that are not = awarded a prize shall be mailed free to the autor once finished the = exposition term only if the autor demand it before juin 30 3004 The rest will bee part of the Municipal Apiculture school archives..=20 TITLE: All the participants will receive an justifying title. Participation in this contest implies total acceptance of the rules of = the contest. E-mail: aulaapicola@jet.es =20 http://www.aulaapicolazuqueca.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:43:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have used screen bottom boards exclusively for the past 5 years, and I know another guy who has done so for over 30 years. We live in an area that averages 60 inches of snow a year; last year we had 90 inches. The past five winters have been relatively mild, but we still have had many nights of temperatures below 10 degrees F, without consideration of wind chill. Neither of us use anything to block the screen during the winter. We both strongly believe in upper winter entrances for ventilation. I use mouse guards to narrow the lower entrance, he totally closes the lower entrance. I have my hives on stands such as that described by Waldemar, except my stands are 12" high (instead of 3.5"). The other guy has his hives on pallets. Therefore both have systems that effectively prevent snow from getting into the hives from the bottom. But it is not uncommon to have hives completely or totally buried in snow. We cannot detect any injurious effect of the screen bottoms compared to when we used solid bottoms. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:21:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: BEE-L moderators Subject: **Please** Do Not Quote Previous Articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BEE-L guidelines specify that contributors should NOT quote previous articles more than absolutely necessary. The rule of thumb is this: Don't quote any more material than you would be willing to type in by hand, and certainly not all the previous article -- plus signatures and tag line! One very good reason for this rule is that repeating the same content over and over tends to clog up the archives, making archive searches frustrating and messy. Messages that are submitted with more than a few relevant and necessary quotes are at risk of not being approved. Even though a few do manage to slip through occasionally, please do not assume the rule has been relaxed. Please be sure to read the guidelines (see tag line URL) and follow them. Your friendly BEE-L janitors. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:50:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "John A. Howe" Subject: Re: wrapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A. Howe" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: Re: Re: [BEE-L] wrapping > Well, I snugly wrapped my hives with reflectix, a sandwich of foil, bubble > wrap and foil, which I found at my local hardware store. The bottom of the > hives are raised a bricks width off my roof with screened bottom boards with > the (foamcore?) tray inserted. I cut out a piece of the relectix at the > (bottom) entrance to give access to the smallest opening.on the entrance > reducer. My hives are covered with Betterbee styrofoam (?)/polystyrene(?)top > covers, not metal. They are on snug. That about describes it. Now what > should I change? Or am I all right? Enough ventilation? Should I pull out > the trays on the bottom board (fully/partly?)? > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:37:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was told that if you buried in snow it is warmer than being open to the colder air. My question is if you use screen bottoms does it keep your hives warmer when the snow covers above the floor. Or does the permafrost freeze in the ground under the hive keep it frozen. In tests the small hive beetle was placed in a freezer for over three days and were still alive. Never been able to find out how the mites do, or wax worms (both kinds). I sure would be interested in any information. Michael Housel Orlandobee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:00:08 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thank you for the information, Lloyd. I see how snow would insulate the hives all around the bottom. On the other hand, do you think completely snowless conditions, combined with very low temperatures, could have a detrimental effect? I suppose borderline-sized clusters could be killed by cold blasts of air. (Not questioning the approach, just seeking input from experienced beekepers.) Thank you. Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:34:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER In-Reply-To: <1a3.1fa42ea1.2d486c4c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-27323BE; boundary="=======2DC3737=======" --=======2DC3737======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-27323BE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I was told that if you buried in snow it is warmer than being open to >the colder air. My question is if you use screen bottoms does it keep your >hives warmer when the snow covers above the floor. Or does the permafrost >freeze in the ground under the hive keep it frozen. Deep snow around the hives is a blessing here in the north. It insulates the ground, many years preventing it from freezing at all. This makes a nice warm spot under the hive...I would think helping when screened bottoms are used. Some years, when the hives are fully buried, an air chamber forms around the hive, where the heat of the bees has melted the snow. Often there is a little "chimney" from the upper entrance...up to the surface. I think they winter better this way, rather than exposed to cold winds, and severely fluctuating temperatures. Mike > --=======2DC3737=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:27:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040128092812.02e12d60@pop.together.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All: A bit of information, a bit of common sense. 1) Mites can survive severe cold -- I've had tracheal mites (some, not all) revive after 2 weeks in a -20F freezer. 2) Mites in your beehive in the winter will take advantage of the heat generated by the bees. 3) Wax moth larvae can be killed by storing combs/boxes in an unheated building in the winter -- but that assumes below freezing temperatures for some period of time. Wax moth may be purged from hives in the winter, but that assumes that the bees get rid of any larvae in the cluster area. Again, unless you get "real" winter, I wouldn't count on it. 4) Cold winds will suck the heat out of an open hive. You may be able to have screened bottoms on hives with no wind barrier in Maryland, but unless you have some form of wrap or wind barricade (and most of us can't count on snow around the hive all winter), its an iffy choice for many northern states and much of Canada. For example, I think one might get away with unwrapped hives and screen bottoms in West Yellowstone, MT -- since snow hits in the fall and is still there in the spring. But in Missoula, we almost always get a January thaw, followed by winds from Canada in February, just as things get really cold again. Since it freezes up lots of houses, no reason to think that the wind wouldn't also pull the heat out of an open-bottomed hive. Remember, the hives are ONLY WARM in the cluster. The air between the cluster and the walls of the box drop off to ambient or near ambient very fast. Another example, I can park my truck at the University in the morning at -20F and expect it to start at the end of the day -- if there's no wind. That engine block holds a lot of heat, which slowly dissipates. When we get one of our hollowing Hellgate Winds (named for Hellgate Canyon, next to the campus), I have to go start the truck at noon. On those days, even after less than an hour, the truck is stone cold. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:42:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER FWIW, I have found the Beltsville Insert to be better than a full screened bottomboard during cold and windy winter months. I keep hives on parallel 4X4X8's and 12's over half sized solid concrete blocks. I lost several full five frame splits with a sixth frame of pollen and a seventh of honey in hives with screened bottom boards due to the cold windy weather of last March and April. Hives in the same configuration with solid bottomboards and Beltsville inserts were not lost; lesson learned! Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:29:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER A post script to my last post in this thread: The losses I have experienced using full screened bottomboards are limited to either weak over-wintered hives and splits as previously mentioned. All losses had available stores. Using screened bottomboards overwinter with strong hives has been quite beneficial with seemingly lower rates of chaulkbrood, disease, and IMO a faster spring buildup. Chuck Norton Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:31:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: Douglas Whynott In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Dear BEE-L subscribers, Many thanks to all of you who provided information on how to locate Douglas Whynott. Abbas in Toronto came up with a good e-mail address, as did a local "lurker" on BEE-L. Doug just responded to my message. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm ************************************************************* * "People have a right to their opinions -- * but that doesn't mean all opinions are of equal value." * * Pot Shot #9108 by Ashleigh Brilliant, used by permission ************************************************************* :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:46:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST In-Reply-To: <200401280500.i0S4lpeA018375@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Aula apicola Subject: IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST Each photograph shall include the next information: account bank number whit (with)swif code I am very concerned about giving anyone my bank information. How valid is this contest and accompanying request. Mike Located 1/2 way between Mobile and Montgomery :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::