From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:46:21 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F374A49000 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDdDJt012145 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0402B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 259514 Lines: 5879 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:00:09 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Hack Subject: Re: Fall Requeening (from raising queens) In-Reply-To: <24.4ed6dc57.2d55bdb8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi George, Thanks for your many very informative posts. Your wrote: > Richard Adee is the largest beekeeper in the U. S., owning 60,000 (60 > thousand) colonies. He REQUEENS EVERY COLONY EVERY FALL. When I had a few hives, I used to requeen every fall as well. Now that I have many more hives, I find it is beyond my ability to heave heavy fall brood supers around looking for the old queen. I obviously must be doing it wrong because as bad as my back situation is, it can't be as bad as yours. What approach do you use with your disabilities to make requeening a populous hive possible? Also what approach do you suppose Richard Adee uses to requeen 60,000 hives? How do other large beekeepers requeen in fall? Another concern I have is my bees are in a rather cool/damp climate (just north of the Okanagan, 51 deg lat. 120 deg long). We have very unpredictable honey flows due to unpredictable weather. Often long wet spells and/or long dry spells. I have been repeatedly told not to tear hives apart in fall to find a queen in this area. Just take the honey supers off, treat and feed if necessary and then insulate in November and that's it. So my concern is how do I reconcile all this and still make it workable? I have only five seasons under my belt and still have lots to learn, but having said that, my honey crop and winter survival rates are still among the best in my area, so I must be doing something right - no????? Thanks for your help in advance, Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:11:02 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Curtis Crowell Subject: Re: History of bees in the New World I recall having read (not sure where) that the firs use of the term "white man's fly" is in "Pilgrim's Progress" by John Bunyan, a kind of early Christian self-help book that depicts various groups, including the Indians, in fairly bigoted ways. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:20:38 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Curtis Crowell Subject: Re: History of bees..retraction I must retract my post referring to the use of the phrase "white man's fly" to John Bunyan. I cannot locate that reference, using the online sources for that text. I did find some material from Thomas Jefferson, who indicated that Indians used this term to refer to the honeybee, which appeared to swarm into new territory shortly in advance of the white settlers, as they proceded to settle inland areas. I will continue searching, but I believe my original reference was incorrect. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:28:37 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <24.4ed6dc57.2d55bdb8@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT George, >Alaska beekeeping is sure different that stateside. > snip >Further, it has been WELL PROVEN by bee scientists that swarming almost >never happens with a VERY YOUNG queen, because she is so capable of producing >enough queen pheromone that inhibits worker bees from building queen cells >that she can have a colony of 40,000-60,000 bees and no swarm cells. >However, when that same queen is just 12 months old, she has lost much of her >pheromone,and swarming becomes a real problem for the beekeeper, and GOD FORBID even >talking about a 2 year old queen. > I appreciate your thoughts and experience. I have kept bees about 25 years or so, but only as a hobbyist. I have never had more than a half dozen hives at once. Things may be the same, overall, here in Alaska but some details are different. Swarming is a more complex thing than a matter of age. I have known of many swarms from queens only a few months old. I have always wondered if it was simply a reflection of the individual beekeepers management (or lack thereof) or something to do with the long daylight hours during the summer. We import packages as early as queens can be mated, and two to three months later they will swarm. Some of these come from inadequate brood space (In Alaska a single brood chamber will reliably produce swarms come late June or early July). But, I am not sure of the reasons for many swarms. I have read the temperate climate wisdom that young queens do not swarm readily, but I have always wondered why that seems to be different up here. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:17:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: reversing (was Imirie method) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Herve & All, > Farrar figured out a way to get the queen to move > to the next box without > reversing and the method works. >Unfortunately, I do not have his book. Would you >accept to describ both his method and yours about this >particular point ? Dr. Farrar would drill a hole under each handhold of his brood chamber boxes and plug with a cork. If he wanted the bees to move into another brood box he would plug a hole and open another into the brood box he wanted the bees to use. The queen would soon move into the box in which the new entrance was being used. Dr. Farrar used six and five eighths *mediums* which were 18 in. by 18 in. square. Four of these for brood chambers on a single queen hive and eight for a double. I do not use the method of drilling holes and corks. Nor do I practice regular reversing. I use a method taught me years ago by George Vanarsdall of counting days to honey flow and the size you want your hive to be at the start of the flow and doing a complete teardown of the hive and remake. I have given precise directions of the method in the archives. Very little swarming happens with the method and reversing is seldom needed but if I see a hive which needs reversing while inspecting I reverse. If the honey flow is later than you anticipate then swarm control is achieved by using the E. L. Sechrist "Clear brood nest method of apiary management" outlined in his 1944 book. I have also discussed the Sechrist method in the archives. A search with my name and either Sechrist or Farrar should provide information. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:19:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Imirie method In-Reply-To: <135501c3edb2$cd5f1cb0$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > George said: > > >>A queen likes to move UP. When the queen has lots of >>OPEN brood in the upper box and there is a lot of capped >>brood in the lower box, switch boxes. >>Forget any CALENDAR! > > > Has anyone ever done a side-by-side comparison on this > specific point? My problem is that lots of people don't > do all the reversing George advocates, and despite poking > into many people's hives, I've NEVER seen a lowest brood > chamber without at least some spring brood in any hive, > anywhere. I use to reverse every spring, but after reading several articles on not reversing determined that there was not a great need to do so. The key is a honey barrier at the top of the frames of brood. If it is not there, she wants to keep going up. If it is, she will stay down and will end up in the lower box by being crowded down. This happens in fall, so why not spring? Especially when the books call for you not to reverse in spring if the brood pattern has already gone into the lower box as well as the upper. If you reverse then, you split the brood and make it more difficult for the bees to keep it warm. So she does move down in the spring. The one thing that reversing does do, in cool climates, is allows you to put the bees below a good store of honey, so they can eat their way up into the upper box. There are always cool days to look forward to even after the first warm days in April here in Maine. The frames of honey on the sides can be moved into the upper box over the cluster in the lower box after reversing. Since you generally are manipulating all the boxes anyway, to clean up after winter, that is the only time I do any reversing, but it is mainly a stores and feed issue. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:19:40 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Keith & all > I like the fact that the Russian strain seems to always have a supersedure > Queen cell perpetually going in the brood nest and am hoping that this is a > dominate trait. This particular element of behaviour is one I have no experiance of. > I would love to have available Apis m.m. to work with but to > date have not been able to obtain Each race does not have an exclusive subset of genes, many of the cold adaption qualities (gene groupings) of AMM are expressed in other races, notably Caucasion and Russian. Teasing out these genes and making selections is the way to go, it would be fairly pointless trying to 'transplant' the bees I have available, because they would not survive your conditions in the short term, to give benefits further down the line. However additions to your local gene pool on an 'ad hoc' basis would give more elements for selection to be done from. There may be bans on transporting colonies or queens, but I doubt if these apply to eggs and/or semen. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:42:50 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Tom & All, >I >have read the temperate climate wisdom that young queens do not swarm >readily, but I have always wondered why that seems to be different up here. > I wrote a post earlier that apparently was rejected for one reason or another that tried to explain what I think is the reason for the strong impulse for colonies headed by a very young Queen to swarm easily in Alaska. You mentioned the photo period being long being a possible reason and I think that this may have a part in it. I will also add that I think it may also be that our constant continuous nectar & pollen flow that occurs from early April through August that might also play a part. I am really hoping that this phenomenon is not only restricted to just Alaska. If it is it might imply that beekeepers in Alaska can not manage colonies correctly. I would think if it occurs because of a long photo period that it would also happen in other far north locations. If it does happen in other locations maybe someone from this other location can shed some light as to why colonies from the 60th parallel or above will swarm, more times than not, even when headed by a young Queen. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 01:21:27 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi George & All, >Alaska beekeeping is sure different that stateside. > Yes it is, Plenty of experts have had their try up here and found their way back to the lower 48. >Your statement that half the bees want to stay with the queen is a GOOD >reason >not to have that queen. Bees are NOT like we humans who endear our mother. < The statement was aimed at the swarm queen not the supersedure queen. >Find for me one bee scientist or bee researcher that will agree with you, >and >then >I want a scientific explanation from him. > I think Dave C. has already dud that but landed on deaf ears. >This might have been great in the 17th century when bees were skep kept and >each year a skep was sacrificed to gain perhaps 10-15 pounds of honey. >However, > Skep kept bees were inherently selected for swarm type strains not supersedure type strains >Further, science as shown >that >bees descending from constant superseded queens are inferior, disease >prone, >and >lose all of their genetic good qualities in favor of the "wild animal" >approach. > Can't believe everything a scientist says can you? > Further, it has been WELL PROVEN by bee scientists that swarming >almost >never happens with a VERY YOUNG queen, because she is so capable of >producing >enough queen pheromone that inhibits worker bees from building queen cells >that she can have a colony of 40,000-60,000 bees and no swarm cells. > which proves that no scientist ever did any research in Alaska where Swarms will issue even from 1st season package bees because of Alaska's long day light summers and the constant nectar and pollen flow that occurs up here from April through August with no break. Like the experts say "Alaska beekeeping is sure different that stateside". Swarms unless managed properly is something that beekeepers will most likely get up here even if you do requeen in the fall. The rules are different up here. I sometimes have to laugh at what I hear you say concerning beekeeping George. You seem to put beekeeping in a box but up here a beekeeper has to step out of the box. >so he requeens every fall to prevent swarming during a nectar >flow, >because YOUNG queens just don't swarm, assuming an intelligent beekeeper is >exercising PROPER bee MANAGEMENT. > I agree with the PROPER bee MANAGEMENT but as stated above the YOUNG queens just don't swarm rule does not apply up here. > I am BLUNT, not by nature, but found that no one ever paid any >attention to >nice sayings; but rather "woke up", paid attention, listened to you, >challenged you, >and then they were mine to TEACH and INFORM. > But you never kept bees in Alaska, maybe you still have things to learn like I do. > Even though I strongly disagree with you, I appreciate your reply >and feelings. > Sure, just remember this is not Maryland and things are different and some of these differences make a big difference in how other beekeepers need to manage colonies. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild _________________________________________________________________ Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:30:34 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob You rephrased the question, but it still reads the same to me. > All of mated queens I raised from the above II breeder queen will > produce drones 100% pure to the source stock because the > drones are haploid and no genetic crossing has taken place. The drones produced by your open mated daughter queens, represent the genetics of the mated II queen, not the drone line that the II queen was inseminated with. The drone line that was used to inseminate the II queen is no longer directly accessible, without re-synthesising it using a very large controlled breeding and selection program. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:35:23 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Wing Clipping, was raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Micheal > We use a v cut or an angle > cut on the wing. I am not familiiar with this 'V' cut method, can you describe the exact nature of this cut (whereabouts on the wing and the direction) and why it is done? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:39:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maurice Subject: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello there is a lot of info by "Georges Imirie" - Pink Pages on: http://www.beekeeper.org/ and http://www.beekeeper.org/dec2000.html Greetings from Maurice (Belgium) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cushman" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Bees in History knip and snip all below......... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:11:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: History of bees in the New World "a kind of early Christian self-help book that depicts various groups, including the Indians, in fairly bigoted ways." The word Pilgrim in The Pilgrim's Progress is an allegory of the journey one takes through life. It has nothing to do with early American settlers called Pilgrims, and was written by a Briton who never had anything to do with America. Perhaps you confuse John Bunyon with Paul? Anyways, the author of the book was known for religious tolerance, which got him jail time back then. To say the Indians called anything something is like saying Asians or Africans or Europeans called something by a word. It's a statement that makes no sense. There were an are many Amerind languages. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:05:11 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Housel wrote: > Queens that have been marked can be cleaned by the bees. You need to > clip a wing. Many of my observation hives have the originally marked queen > with the clip wing but the marks have been removed. Removed or just rubbed off? When marking a queen it is essential to get the paint on to the surface of the thorax. A gentle dab leaves a blob of paint on the overhairs rather than the surface and this will quickly disappear; in my experience you need to press down quite firmly (within reason!) and rub the paint in. I find the marker pens sold by Thornes work very well if applied like this and have some marks that have easily survived three seasons. A word of warning: keep the pen out of the sun and dab it first on something other than your queen, or else your may well apply an awful lot more paint than you intended! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:19:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Reversing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison said "Farrar figured out a way to get the queen to move to the next box without reversing and the method works." Bob, why don't you refresh our memories on what Farrar said? I could spend 2 days in the archives on this one and still not find it! Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:46:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know of two methods of fall requeening lots of colonies without finding the 'old' queen. 1. Requeen from a nuc. Set up nucs in July with marked queens. Depending on just where you are geographically, by sometime in July all your bees for production have emerged. Taking a few frames of brood and enough bees to tend the brood will not hurt current year production. Sometime in September/October (in September in Canada, October in Virginia), combine nucs with hives you want to requeen. If you are running four frame nucs, take out four frames and replace with the frames from the nuc, including the covering bees, brood, and the queen. No need for newspaper, screens, etc. You have now made a two-queen hive, but at sometime in the future the 'old' queen will disappear and the new (marked) queen will survive. At least that is the theory...I have found that better than 90% of the time the new queen is the one there in the spring. Occasionally I see an unmarked queen in the spring and then I figure that a supercedure was in process when I introduced the nuc. I have NEVER seen an 'old' marked queen the following spring. What does one do with the four frames taken out of the hive? Depends...if your hives are heavy enough, take out full frames and extract them. If not, combine frames into hive bodies, leave a small opening, and let the bees rob them. Protect them from wax moth until you need them in the spring. 2. Put a queen cell in a HONEY frame in the fall. The theory is that the existing queen will not find the cell, the cell queen will emerge and mate and the 'old' queen will disappear. I am told that this practice is widely followed in the southern states (by migratory beekeepers who are requeening) and is based on work done by a Canadian scientist, who claimed success of over 90%. If anyone can tell us of an accessible source for this work I would appreciate it. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:01:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <402574A5.70001@gci.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Further, it has been WELL PROVEN by bee scientists that swarming almost > >never happens with a VERY YOUNG queen Unfortunately, while this may have applied when and where the scientists in question worked, it seems that all bees have not heard the news. I recall having about 26 out of 30 package hives swarm one spring in one of my yards. I assume that the queens were all new that spring. Many good beekeepers, especially many who have observed their own bees, are not as convinced as George is. allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:10:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Fall Requeening (from raising queens) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I have been repeatedly told not to tear hives apart in fall to > find a queen in this area. Just take the honey supers off, treat and feed if > necessary and then insulate in November and that's it. > ..having said that, my honey crop and winter survival rates are still > among the best in my area, so I must be doing something right - no????? Yes. Keep in mind that some people (racers) tear down their engine and rebuild it as often as once for each 1/4 mile run. Other drivers load their cars down with accessories and paint and/or polish constantly. Most of The rest of us drive conservatively, get several hundred miles per engine and don't worry about gadgets, maintenance or appearance beyond the basics. Who is right? Depends who you are and what your goals are. allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:03:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Paint Pens (was raising queens) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Peter Edwards wrote: > I find the marker pens sold by Thornes work very well ... I too use the marker (paint) pens. Best price I have found is at: http://www.durablesupply.com/pospainmar.html No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. Aaron Morris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:30:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Wing Clipping, was raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When Marking Queens we found that in observational hives the marks were gone. Superceding was not the case. When we clipped the wings it showed that it was still the same queen without the markings or numbers. Clipping the very edges of the back and end gives a V cut. We needed different types of clipping to be sure that we were on the same queen. The reason that the marking/clipping was so important is that we were watching for swarming. Never got clear answer to the question we were studying: IF THE QUEEN MATES WITH AND SAVES THE SPERM FROM MANY DIFFERENT DRONES. THEN AS SHE RUNS OUT AND CHANGES DRONE SPERM CREATING HALF SISTERS IN THE HIVE DO THE BEES SEPARATE IN THE HIVE. GROUPS OF BEES SEPARATE TO THE SAME DRONE FATHER, THUS CAUSING SUPERCEDURE AND SWARMING? Michael Housel Orlandobee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:47:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "John A. Howe" Subject: Re: Madoc, Irish prince MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A. Howe" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: Madoc, Irish prince > Sorry to rain on your parade but the Madoc Irish prince story has no basis > in fact in reputable archaeological circles. It is a myth, nothing more. I > majored in New World archaeology and keep current on this stuff. > John Howe :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:56:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Paint Pens (was raising queens) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/8/04 5:11:12 PM GMT Standard Time, AMorris@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU writes: > I too use the marker (paint) pens. I go to our local autoparts store (Halfords in the UK), where they have a paint mixing service, and get touch up paint containers made up for me each spring. These things are ' brush in cap' and work just great. You are not restricted to any small range of colours, so we have a parallel code for purchased queens as well as the standard mainstream ones. A friend is partly coloublind and can only distinguish three colours from the main code, so this 'any colour' facility helps him get ones he can see. There are very few cases where the bees manage to remove this stuff. Murray :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:59:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queen Paint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron sent us to http://www.durablesupply.com/pospainmar.html Aaron, there are many brands, styles, on the web site. Which have you had experience with? Have you found one where you do not have to trim the point...a messy job. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:09:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Reversing Has anyone kept a number of hives with NEW queens and single brood boxes, and double boxes at the same time? And has anyone taken careful notes? It would seem to me that single brood boxes, if not more prone to swarming, would solve several problems, not least of which would be that one wouldn't have to reverse. I have currently about 50 hives with queen excluders over a single brood chamber, and a dozen or so with excluders above the second brood box. So far, having the extra honey I'm getting is quite nice (I need honey badly for continuity in my little niche market) with the single brood chamber, and I really haven't got much at all from the double brood hives, but I freely admit to a certain amount of nervousness concerning swarming. I requeened in mid December. Thanks much Tim Vaughan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:10:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Sperm mixing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael said "AS SHE RUNS OUT AND CHANGES DRONE SPERM", implying that sperm is not somehow mixed as it is stored in the queen. Sue Cobey, in BeeBix, April 2003, wrote "More recently, Haberl & Tautz (1998) confirmed that sperm in the spermatheca is mixed and used randomly, and the rate of clumping is less than 6%." She goes on to say "The conclusion is that a queen randomly uses sperm from all her mates, all the time, though some subfamilies are larger than others." See the article for a further description of how the subfamilies operate within the hive. I recall that swarms have large populations of certain subfamilies more closely related to the swarming queen than those subfamilies 'left behind'. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:16:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Queen Paint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lloyd asked, "Which have you had experience with? Have you found one where you do not have to trim the point...a messy job." I've used both Testor and Uni-Posca. Both do a nice job, but the Uni-Posca is more reasonably priced, and the folks behind the web-page I listed gave supurlative service (next day mailing, searched to find best shipping, friendly follow-through via email). As far as trimming the tip, it's best done before you use the pen! Trim the tip while it is dry, brefore it has been primed with the paint. Aaron Morris - thinking When You Requeen, Get the Best! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:22:42 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Fall requeening Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Lloyd & All, >2. Put a queen cell in a HONEY frame in the fall. The theory is that the >existing queen will not find the cell, the cell queen will emerge and mate >and the 'old' queen will disappear. > This one sounds like a really good one if it works in theory. It might well work as a supersedure and maybe both queens would even work together for a period. I may just try this way to see how it works out. I will clip the original queen to ID her and keep her from leaving the hive with workers. There is only one problem I have with this way and that is I like to have a backup mated Queen just in case bad weather fails mating the new Queen. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Choose now from 4 levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - no more account overload! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:56:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 6 Feb 2004 to 7 Feb 2004 (#2004-39) In-Reply-To: <200402080500.i183Z2Qj016800@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roger White wrote:"... possible causes could include exposure to chemicals or radiation or just simply = the effects of old age" referring to changes in genetic material in old queens. From my classes in genetics I was taught that the only way genetic material is changed is through exposure to hard radiation and/or direction action of chemicals that are capable of changing genetic material. The haphazard change of genetic material through the haphazard effects of natural radiation are about as possible as one of us winning the $20 million lottery in Texas. It does happen, but the effects are normally not noticable nor are they ususally transmitted to progeny. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:02:10 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Queen raising In-Reply-To: <200402080500.i183Z2Qj016800@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: What determines the BEST queens is their diet while developing. Aaron, I'm going to pick at you just a little. Generally speaking you are right, but.... Remember queens from four day old larvae are going to bee significantly different from queens from one or two day old larvae. You get to three day old larvae and you start getting into the iffy area. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:05:35 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Cages & virgin queen size (was raising queens) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am planning on raising 3 - 4 queens this season from a NWC queen heading up my most productive colony. I'll place the old queen with some bees in a nuc (just in case, she'll be needed later) and crowd the rest of the bees in the orignal hive w/ a frame of fresh eggs to build emergency cells from. For the reasons discussed here recently, I could end up with a queen of inferior size. So, once the emergency cells are capped, I plan to place screen cages over several of the largest cells (destroying the rest) so that the cells are not destroyed by bees or another queen. As the emergence date approaches, I'll check the cages daily. When emerged, the virgins will stay in their cages for a maximum of 24 hours. When I see a nice, plump virgin I'll transfer her to a mating nuc. I'll cull any small size virgin. Will this work for me? Does anyone practice such queen raising? I made up a few cages last season and was successful in isolating the virgins as long as the cages were pressed deeply into the comb (otherwise, the bees chewed the comb to get under the cages & free the virgins). Thank you. Waldemar :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:54:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: painting bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We all have long been used to painting queens on the thorax. I was observing some of Seeley's experimental nucs and noted he was painting workers on the upper abdomen. Sometimes instead of the thorax, sometimes the same color as the thorax, and sometimes a different color than the thorax. Someone explained that it is often a lot easier to see the abdomen than the thorax (I'll second that), it doesn't harm the bee, and the ability to use one color on the thorax and another on the abdomen makes a lot more color combinations possible. I guess this is especially useful in experiments involving drifting or robbing. While I initially thought it would be dangerous to mark the queen on the abdomen, because one might squeeze by mistake, it occurred to me that it is also dangerous to mark a worker there...as one might be more likely to get stung! Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:51:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Fall requeening >>Put a queen cell in a HONEY frame in the fall. The theory is that the existing queen will not find the cell, the cell queen will emerge and mate and the 'old' queen will disappear. I am told that this practice is widely followed in the southern states (by migratory beekeepers who are requeening) and is based on work done by a Canadian scientist, who claimed success of over 90%. If anyone can tell us of an accessible source for this work I would appreciate it. Basically a beekeeper inishiated superceedure. Is that all there is to a sucessfull superceedure? I would be interested in reading this studdy, if anyone outthere could tell me where to look. Thanks Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:13:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Two Historical Questions In-Reply-To: <200402081311.i18CXiOF026891@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT 1. I have heard several times that Africanized bees were imported to the USA in the 1930's, and used for breeding stock. I am looking for more info to find if there is any truth to this..... 2. One often hears of still useable honey found in the pyramids or the tombs of the pharoahs. Are there any creditable original references for this? I note Dadant's "Hive and the Honeybee" repeats this, but gives no reference. Dave Green SC USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:38:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: History of bees..White Man's Foot, Stinging Fly In-Reply-To: <020720042320.14204.440e@att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe that the reference you are seeking comes from the following in the Song of Hiawatha by H.W. Longfellow, in which the coming of the tall canoes and the bearded people is described: Wheresoe'er they move, before them Swarms the stinging fly, the Ahmo, Swarms the bee, the honey-maker; Wheresoe'er they tread, beneath them Springs a flower unknown among us, Springs the White-man's Foot in blossom. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:01:02 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Queen Paint Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi LLoyd, Aaron & All, I just happen to have a paint marker in my pen cup next to my computer, it is a Testors brand. I do not make a habit of marking queens for reasons of my own but might find the need to do so in the future. I never thought of using one of these paint markers. I got it at a hobby shop to do a project with my two boys. They come in many colors. You could probably find them at craft and hobby shops or hardware stores. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Paint Pens (was raising queens) Aaron, I appreciate such a fine tip on the link to the queen markers; but, I just did not get the point: The one that that queens like best. Could you please post us another pointer? Chuck Norton Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 19:11:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Reversing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd asks: Bob, why don't you refresh our memories on what Farrar said? Because Farrar (as do many USDA researchers) liked the 6 5/8 boxes for brood nests Farrar had quite a bit of experience with using a large brood nest if you will (4 mediums for a single queen hive) with three such gaps. By contrast if you use two deeps you have only got only one gap. I consider the gap a bigger problem than the small amount of honey around brood in the nest. I have got a friend which quit the Baton Rouge Bee lab in 1967 and went into commercial beekeeping. He always (and still does) uses 6 5/8 boxes. All his brood boxes have got the Farrar hole under the hand hole but instead of a cork (like Farrar used) he uses a piece of tin he makes with two nails . My own experiments found similar to Farrar that if the queen/bees are not moving up you can close the under handhold hole in the box she is laying in and open the hole in the box you want her to move into and soon a steady flow of bees exists into the new box coming from bees coming and going through the hole and the queen soon moves into the box. I have had queens in my observation hives only want to lay on the frame I installed her on. Not want to cross the gap. My observation hive is made up with three vertical deep frames. I also found if I opened the hive and put her on the next frame she would lay and then not want to return back down crossing the gap. Around and around she would go searching every cell on the frame for a cell to lay an egg in when the next frame above or below was completely empty of eggs. I found by adding bees to a certain level in the OB hive she would move up and lay eggs in all frames. In other words once the workers started a steady flow of bees moving into the new area she followed. Actually a queen which is content to lay on one frame in a three frame OB hive works out great if the hive is in a place of business and the beekeeper can only service the hive every couple months! Also getting the right formula of bees in an OB hive is an art! Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:27:44 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Cell size in the 1940s In-Reply-To: <92.2941bcd.2d52e37f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <92.2941bcd.2d52e37f@aol.com>, CSlade777@AOL.COM writes >I believe that Murray McGregor, who is a very large beekeeper in Scotland, >uses a cell size of about 5.2. Yes, but I doubt if that would be the cause of the difference reported. Though I was given no measurements, the beekeeper emphasised they were a lot smaller than the strains found even a few miles away. He seemed to think they were A.m.m. - perhaps a Scottish variant, peculiar to that glen. The strain was not preserved as the bees were moved elsewhere. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:28:45 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Wing Clipping, was raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael > THEN AS SHE RUNS OUT AND CHANGES DRONE SPERM > CREATING HALF SISTERS IN THE HIVE DO THE BEES > SEPARATE IN THE HIVE. GROUPS OF BEES SEPARATE > TO THE SAME DRONE FATHER, The sets of sisters have some mechanism for recognising kinship, but we do not know exactly how. There is much conjecture that the kinship groups perform, or are suited to, different ranges of tasks (division of labour) this also requires much more work to sort out. There is conjecture that multiple mating has developed in order to further this division of labour, again more work needed. The mixing of sperm in the spermatheca is more thorough than hitherto thought, but exactly how many sperm are in each small clump will have to wait until someone takes a volume of sperm and DNA is extracted from every individual sperm, before that can be answered with certainty. However the clumps are small enough that your question... > DO THE BEES SEPARATE IN THE HIVE. GROUPS OF BEES > SEPARATE TO THE SAME DRONE FATHER, THUS > CAUSING SUPERCEDURE AND SWARMING? can be answered... All drone lines are represented in roughly equal amounts, but in any case the ratios of drone line expression remain the same as when the sperm was originally mixed after mating (at the time the excess was expelled). Thus there are many 'groups of bees' (= to the mating frequency) rather than a couple of rivals. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:06:10 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Cages & virgin queen size (was raising queens) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all. Waldemar said... > w/ a frame of fresh eggs to build emergency cells from. OK for raising 3 or 4 queens, providing that none of the 'eggs' have hatched into larvae. It is the age at which being fed as a queen started that is important rather than just plumpness of the finished virgin. I still reckon grafting is the easiest and most controlled method and would do this myself even if I was only looking for 3 or 4 queens. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:49:51 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Cell size in the 1940s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Small bees (& small cellsize) were originally mentioned to me by Beo Cooper probably about 30 years ago. He mentioned odd individual colonies in various places in the midlands, Lincolnshire springs specifically to mind as he talked of several sites there, although I never visited any of them myself. I have had one colony that had notable small totally black and shiny bees myself, I have had reports of small bees in odd individual colonies from Murray (bear in mind he has large numbers of colonies), I had never heard of a pocket of colonies of such bees in Scotland. Although I do not have Beo's records I reckon the cellsize involved was about 5.00 mm. All in all the total number of such naturally occuring small celled colonies that I have been told about is somewhere between a dozen and twenty, not exactly commonplace. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:22:14 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Paint Pens (was raising queens) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Murray said... > There are very few cases where the bees manage to remove this stuff. Even where it is removed there is still 'tell tale' evidence of the mark. I have never tried 'touch up' paint as such, but I have used brushing cellulose and that certainly sticks better than some water based queen paints that are available Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:27:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Queen Paint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lloyd asked, "Which have you had experience with? Have you found one where you do not have to trim the point...a messy job." I've used both Testor and Uni-Posca. Both do a nice job, but the Uni-Posca is more reasonably priced, and the folks behind the web-page I listed gave supurlative service (next day mailing, searched to find best shipping, friendly follow-through via email). As far as trimming the tip, it's best done before you use the pen! Trim the tip while it is dry, brefore it has been primed with the paint. Aaron Morris - thinking When You Requeen, Get the Best! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 06:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Observation hive ((was Reversing) Comments: To: Steve Brown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, question by direct email: Not sure what you mean by the word formula? I should have said combination of bees and frames I suppose or rules you follow when setting up an OB hive. If you make up the OB hive with to many older bees all they want to do is run on the glass trying to get out. If you make up the OB hive with all nurse bees they cover only the brood and the queen is hard to see. You always need a drone or two but I have made up an OB hive without a single drone. When making up an OB hive you can toss in a drone from any hive without a problem (unless the hive is in the process of tossing out the drones). Also consider the OB hive like you were setting up a tropical fish tank (example) and carefully choose the frames . Choose frames which easily show the parts of the hive you want to display. Not frames which should be culled! I expect a few beekeepers hearing the above for the first time will realize exactly how critical other beekeepers are of other beekeepers OB hives at state fairs and perhaps why their OB hive always got the last place ribbon! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. Always make the OB hive up at least a day before the event to give the bees a chance to resume normal activity is a rule I use and not an hour before the display and *try* to keep the glass as clean as possible during the installation of the frames. Wash the glass & OB hive before setting up!. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:21:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Reversing In-Reply-To: <003801c3eeaa$6a0884a0$43bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I consider the gap a bigger problem than the small amount of honey around > brood in the nest. I agree with Bob's observations. All beekeepers will not have the same experience, however, since some scrape every frame clean, like new, and others just let the bees build ladder comb and wax the sides of the top and bottom bars. Some beekeepers are fanatical about bee space and burr comb, and others are more relaxed. Beekeepers who let the bees build as they will, often find the queen goes down by herself, and that reversing is not necessary, but those who have new frames and/or scrape may have to reverse to get a queen to cross the gap. As with almost any bee question, however YMMV. Weather, populations, flows, strain of bee, and other factors will have an influence, and each year is different. allen In Vancouver :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:49:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Wing Clipping, was raising queens Dave wrote: All drone lines are represented in roughly equal amounts, but in any case the ratios of drone line expression remain the same as when the sperm was originally mixed after mating (at the time ). reply: I wonder where you get this information. Can you support this with any references? pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:06:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Follower boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An article in the February 2004 issue of Bee Culture talks about the several merits of follower boards, but one claimed benefit has me stumped. Perhaps someone of the list can clarify what is going on. Italics are mine. The author states ".when follower boards have been installed in positions 1 and 10 the center of the hive is significantly insulated from the colder sides.' (True, so far.) 'This difference of temperature encourages a movement of convection that drives the moisture produced by the bees into the gaps that separate the follower boards from the sides of hive and away from the cluster.' 'Most of the water vapor condenses against the sides of the hives and does not shower the hives." Convection, I think, is Physics 101. The author is maintaining that warm moist air does not rise but somehow is 'driven' toward the sides of the hive next to the follower boards. Why the sides of the hive, and not the ends (which are not adjacent to anything similar to a follower board) is not discussed. Is there any possibility he is correct? Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:01:54 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, I said "that possible causes could include....." . Interesting to see = that you stayed away from the old age piece. If there is no = degeneration of genetic material that comes with age then how come = genetic defects are more common in the babies of older mothers(humans) = and tests are carried out to determine wether the foetus is ok or not?=20 A lot of medicines carry warnings about not using when pregnant - = presumably because they can cause defects. Queens are pregnant all the = time and are exposed to the chemicals that beekeepers use to control = Varroa. Dave Cushman mentioned queens that live up to 7 years! Do you = really think that 7 years of exposure to chemicals like = coumaphos/fluvalinate/flumethrin etc. etc. are not going to have an = effect? The defects are not of course usually noticeable in any = physical deformity, as in humans, but the suspicion exists that the = cause for the daughters of "older" queens being inferior to daughters = reared when the breeder was younger is from a cumulative effect of some = of these chemicals. Worker bees come and go - queens are exposed to = many treatments during their life - powerful toxins that are = insecticides - to me it is illogical to think that there isn't some = effect. Anyway, this is all a bit off the original thread which was to = compare swarm queens with supercedure queens. I wouldn't use either in = my production hives if I could I'd change them for my own queens that = have been bred for the characteristics that I need to make my beekeeping = business profitable and not go bankrupt. =20 Keith Benson asked: "specifically how would a supercedure queen differ = genetically from a swarm queen?" I must say I am surprised with the = question - I would have thought that the answer was obvious - the = supercedure queen doesn't carry the swarming = gene.....................hahhahaha! Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:14:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Drone sperm mixing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "All drone lines are represented in roughly equal amounts, but in any case the ratios of drone line expression remain the same as when the sperm was originally mixed after mating (at the time )." Peter Borst asked for a source. See Cobey's article "The extraordinary honey bee mating strategy..." She quotes Haberl & Tautz (1998) Sperm usage in honey bees. Behavior Ecology Sociobiology 42:247-255. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:14:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Two Historical Questions In-Reply-To: <40266E37.8555.F2A678@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:13 PM 2/8/2004, you wrote: >1. I have heard several times that Africanized bees were imported >to the USA in the 1930's I've found no reference to the 1930's, but plenty to 1956 when they were imported into brazil. http://www.ces.uga.edu/pubcd/l432-w.html >2. One often hears of still useable honey found in the pyramids or >the tombs of the pharoahs. I've seen lots of references myself (including encyclopedias, etc.), but no original source. Some time ago a saw a show on PBS (nova perhaps?) on the building of the pramids. An expert explained that honey was used in treating wounds and how they knew that. (But I don't remember they saying anything about finding honey itself). http://www.chemheritage.org/EducationalServices/pharm/antibiot/readings/honey.htm -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:40:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Follower boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lloyd asked about the convective currents inside a hive with follower boards. I'm one of the few beekeepwer I know who still uses follower boards. As far as the convective currents in the hive, I imagine (I have not checked specifically in my follower board hives for this) that the warm air would rise to the inner cover, begin to cool and fall down ALL sides of the hive (front, back, left and right. I have never examined to see if there is frost between the inside left and right walls and the follower boards (I DO run them in positions 1 and 10 - actually it's 1/2 and 9 1/2) but I imagine the described convective currents could be so. I screw small screws into the sides of my follower boards to keep them spaced properly to assure that bees do not get crushed between follower board and hive wall. It could be this "vent" space to which the author refers. However, the design of the follower boards do not make an air tight chimney along the side of the hive, mine are basically the same dimensions (L and w) as a frame. With the screw spacers, each is half as fat as a drawm frame. This would be a job for Jerry's electronic hives to monitor the convectiove currents inside a follower board "enhanced" hive! Aaron Morris - thinking I'll read the article tonight! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:16:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Follower boards and convective currents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron said "the warm air would rise to the inner cover, begin to cool and fall down ALL sides of the hive (front, back, left and right." Ok, I understand that except that I recall there must be some free space for the convective current. Let's presume such a space is there. But, do follower boards provide some mechanism, catalyst, etc. that a frame does not? The author of the article claims the cooling air will flow behind the follower board before it can precipitate against the inner cover. If that is so, why will it also not flow down between frame 1 and the outside of the hive? (Not enough space for a convection current to be set up?) Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:21:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Follower boards In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A1090D27F4@email.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Aaron: Ok, I'll bite. Robert Madsen, Dull Knife College has been looking at air movements inside hives with a temperature probe positioned every 1 inch of space in all dimensions. He and I and others are still working to understand the data, but it is pretty clear that convection currents circle the frames. THe hot air moves up, around and over the frames, the hottest spot moving as one might expect with the sun, and changing from day to night. This movement of air around the frames (as a block) seems to be more or less the same, regardless of whether bees are or are not in the box. Its basically hotter air rising and cooler air dropping, moving around the perimeter of the frames. Now, between the frames is a different issue. In this case, the air flow seems to respond to the bees, and how they manage it changes with different situations. They will move hot air toward the part of the hive with the hottest air (in the summer). They often more or less mix the air for maximum uniformity (less than 0.5 degree C difference) throughout the space between any two combs, although the temperature between any two frames may differ. Although we don't fully understand what's going on, we do know that its not a simple chimney, nor are we likely to predict it based on what we THOUGHT we knew. My analogy is that of a car and a heater or air conditioner. We don't run down the road on a very cold or very hot day with the windows open and the vent open. We recirculate the air, rather than exchange the bulk of it with the outside. Same seems to apply to bees in the hive. Yes, they have to generate heat in cold, exhaust heat in hot weather;; but they don't let much warm or cool air, as needed, escape. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:37:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Re: Reversing : Only to cross the gap? In-Reply-To: <1076343675.4027b37bdbbb2@209.51.153.186> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Beekeepers who let the bees > build as they will, often find the queen goes down by > herself, and that reversing is not necessary, but those who > have new frames and/or scrape may have to reverse to get a > queen to cross the gap. So is reversing only about getting the queen across the gap? Is there ever a good reason to reverse where the queen is already laying in two brood chambers? Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:46:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Reversing : Only to cross the gap? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank asks: >So is reversing only about getting the queen across the gap? No. >Is there ever a good reason to reverse where the queen is already >laying in two brood chambers? Sure! Reversing is a useful tool of beekeeping. Queens do seem to prefer to move up. A simple reverse to put emerging and empty cells above the queen many times will prevent swarming and increase brood production. When nights are warm and plenty of bees splitting the brood nest is not a big deal. Reversing and splitting the nest when nights are cold and early in spring can end up with a bunch of chilled brood. Forget the daytime temp you need to be concerned about the night temp and number of bees to cover the brood. If I see (from past experience) I can help a hive of bees by rearranging the brood nest I make a move. If I am not sure I LEAVE ALONE . Do bees/queens prefer to move up: Years ago I took five strong hives in singles all of the same strength and put a empty box of drawn comb above and below. I came back a week later and three had moved up, one had moved down and one had moved both ways. Although not very scientific I concluded that bees /queens like to move up when given a chance. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:20:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ronnie Subject: New to the list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you all for such an information filled list I hope to gleam a lot of informative information off of it Thanks Ronald Reedy Sebastian Fl. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:12:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron & Eefje Subject: Cutting of queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So I hope that this heading catches your eyes.....since under the heading of 'Raising queens' no one responded! Anyway, three days ago I wrote: While we are discussing the raising of queens......... This week in a meeting with local beekeepers for just a queen raising project, I heard one beekeeper claim that queens cut themselves from the queen cells with some kind of horn like device or their head, as opposed to the nibbling or eating away of the wax by the other colony members. I had not heard of this before, is it true? Are there any clarifying pictures around that show this? from Ron PE2RVM/SM6WHN Snartorp - Sweden :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:15:29 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Wing Clipping, was raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > I wonder where you get this information. Can you support this with any > references? The information is distilled from many sources that I am not able to specifically list, but you will find much of it in the papers or writings of Anita Collins, Sue Cobey, John Edwards, Ben Oldroyd, Kellie palmer and there are a good many others that do not spring to mind imediately. In general the appreciation of subset mixing of sperm packets has changed progressively over the last few decades, from layered deposition through the bag of rocks to the bag of marbles, then further to the sack of peas and now the sack of gravel... Maybe we will get to the sack of sand or even total homogenising as more work is done. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:15:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Martin Subject: Re: Cutting of queens In-Reply-To: <200402100640.i1A3SZYh001857@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > cells with some kind >of horn like device or their head, as opposed to the nibbling >or eating away of the wax >by the other colony members. >I had not heard of this before, is it true? Are there any >clarifying pictures around >that show this? >from Ron PE2RVM/SM6WHN Snartorp - Sweden I also observed a similar action by a queen in an observation hive. She was ripping open cells and the workers would clean them out. This result was observed in an abnormal situation. The situation was as follows: 1. Observation hive consisting of two deep frames and one shallow. With enough bees to cover both sides of the shallow frame ONLY. 2. The shallow frame had emerging brood when introduced into the hive. 3. The hive was given a queen 3 days later and all emergency queen cells were removed. 4. The queen commenced to laying eggs. 5. The hive was raising brood normally and capping brood. Then.. 1. I chilled the hive to 40 degrees F. for not more than 24 hours. 2. I brought the hive inside to a 70 degree F. temperature. 3. This resulted in dead capped brood. After approximately a week the queen started to rip open the capped cells. The workers circled her at times but not always. When she had the cells ripped open the workers finished cleaning out the chilled brood. I know this activity is not an action normally attributed to the queen. Perhaps I am not alone in observing this behavior? I have to look through my photo collection. I may have a photo of her doing this. Tom Martin Shippensburg, Pa Email without internet subscribe@emypeople.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:43:45 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Cutting of queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ron > one beekeeper claim that queens cut themselves from the queen cells > with some kind of horn like device or their head, as opposed to the > nibbling or eating away of the wax by the other colony members. Someone is pulling your leg... If you have any doubts about this merely open a few queencells of random age and look at the head. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:21:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Seeking photos of honeybee pests In-Reply-To: <011c01c3ef9c$fbe79260$dc2965d5@ronmierl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Over the years the web site for my small (large-hobbyist level) apiary has grown to several hundred pages with many photos of my bees on different wildflowers, information about bees wax, elementary information about honeybees, etc. You can see an example here: www.blessedbee.ca/encyclopedia/ . Increasingly (and to my surprise) I am hearing that my site is being used as an educational resource by schools. Largely because of that, I have started to put together some elementary information about beekeeping as well. I am starting with honeybee pests and diseases. You can see an example of what I am trying to create here, a page about wax moths: http://www.blessedbee.ca/encyclopedia/honeybees/diseases/waxmoths.php I am happy to say that there are many pests and diseases that I have yet to experience, and so I do not have photographs of them. I wonder if anybody here can suggest a source of photographs of Varroa, tracheal mites, AFB scales, etc that I could use to illustrate what I write. I will happily credit the sources of course. Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:19:22 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Follower boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Recent posts in this thread have missed one point... The smoothness of a follower board (dummy frame) allows air to be moved by convection where a much lower temperature difference occurs. I have built experimental hives with walls that are a sandwich consisting of 6 mm ply open single bee space 6 mm ply remarkable air convection currents are set up by very small amounts of insolation because the outermost wall is so thin. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:04:34 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Follower boards Lloyd quoted an article thusly: > "This difference of temperature encourages a movement of > convection that drives the moisture produced by the bees > into the gaps that separate the follower boards from the > sides of hive and away from the cluster. Most of the > water vapor condenses against the sides of the hives and > does not shower the hives." > The author is maintaining that warm moist air does not rise > but somehow is 'driven' toward the sides of the hive next to > the follower boards. Why the sides of the hive, and not the ends > (which are not adjacent to anything similar to a follower board) > is not discussed. Is there any possibility he is correct? First, I can't see any "passive closed convective loop" air circulation in a beehive having enough speed/volume to prevent condensation under most possible conditions in a beehive. Second, I can't see the increased empty space between the hive body and the follower boards improving the speed/volume of convective airflow to prevent "inner cover condensation" under most conditions all by itself. Jerry said: > Robert Madsen, Dull Knife College has been looking at air movements > inside hives with a temperature probe positioned every 1 inch of space > in all dimensions. This is very interesting. How does he successfully measure airflow with temperature probes? If temperature is being measured, is airflow is being extrapolated with a (very fancy) model that makes assumptions about temperature deltas implying a direction to air movement? Lots of folks (me included) have thermocouples in a few hives. If his data is anything like mine, he should have a consistent and sharp drop-off in temperature a very short distance from the cluster edge. Doesn't the sharp drop-off in temperature at the cluster edge indicate a LACK of airflow around the cluster? If there is a serious convective loop going on, wouldn't we see more gradual temperature drops as one moved away from the cluster's outer edge on at least the "sunny side" of the hive? (Note that the "sunny side" for my hives is never the side where one might put a follower board - I point my hive entrances south.) Taking the opposite view just to make a point, if I create a model that extrapolates airflow from temperature changes, does my cluster edge temperature data imply that I have a very scary and massive flow of air around the cluster, constantly removing heat from the outer surface of the cluster via "wind chill"? Clearly not, but how do I know that any one pair of temperature deltas indicates airflow between the two points? > Its basically hotter air rising and cooler air dropping, moving around > the perimeter of the frames. What sort of airspeed and flow volume are they extrapolating? Enough to keep condensation from happening on the inner cover if you put in follower boards? :) ...and the bees don't matter? This would imply that the moisture generated by the bees has NO EFFECT AT ALL on air movements within the hive, and everything is temperature-driven. I agree that moisture content itself has little impact on the buoyancy of air even under the best of conditions, but the surprise is that there is enough air exchange between the hive and the outside world to make the bees' waste heat a non-issue, but not enough to disrupt the convention loop. What sort of "leakage" does he have on these hives? Did he seal them tight for the testing, or does he have a "typical hive" configuration? jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:28:27 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen Paint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith, You and I have perhaps had a few disagreements, mainly because I know NOTHING about Alaska except I know that the U.S. bought it from Russia just after the end of our Civil War for only about 6-7 million dollars, and the American public called it Secretary of State Seward, "Sewards Folly". However, as a scientist (which you seem to discredit or have little confidence), I have ALWAYS (over 50 years) painted my queens on their thorax with TESTOR'S hobby paint, which is NOT waterbased, but linseed oil and turpentine, and it never comes off, nor seem to bother the queen or the workers. The Testor Paint pen is just an industrial improvement (and more cost) to when I have to buy a little bottle and a tiny artist paint brush to paint my queens. I STRONGLY recommend Testor's paint pens, but trim the sponge point before it ever has paint on it. Before my strokes, I had 135 colonies, ALL with marked queens. You cannot tell that a queen that you see in hive on September 1st is the same queen that you saw back in May, no matter if you have 20-20 vision without glasses, UNLESS SHE IS MARKED. So what?, you might say. When I have worked hard for years to maintain a DOCILE bee, disease resistant, great wintering bee, high honey producer, starting with an Artificially Inseminated queen to keep my Carniolans as pure as possible, then I want to be able to recognize a queen in my colony and know that she is not some daughter queen who was fathered by all those TOM, DICK, and HARRY'S that just happened to be around. One might have been Italian, another a Caucasian, another an African "killer bee" (apis mellifera scutellata), and an Aunt Mary's backyard drone. Maybe linage and hence breeding is not important to you; but it is to me. Not implying that I am better than others, but I am proud of my SCOT heritage, and known as a WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant), and my four sons and two grandsons have followed my thinking. I now have 2 GREAT GRANDDAUGHTERS, ages 8 and 3, first girls in 5 generations in my family. I hope to be alive to instruct them in their linage selection. Have a nice day, and MARK YOUR QUEENS George :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:29:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Reversing : Only to cross the gap? In-Reply-To: <200402092037.i19KbpN7020622@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > So is reversing only about getting the queen across the gap? Is there ever > a good reason to reverse where the queen is already laying in two brood > chambers? Good point. There are other reasons too. Sometimes there can be a barrier of honey above the brood that will, combined with an excluder, prevent the bees from going into the supers, particularly if the supers are put on a bit late. When confronted with this situation, wise beekeepers will either reverse or pull a few frames and replace them with empties to break the honey barrier. Of course there are other options, too. allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:50:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Cutting of queens Comments: cc: ron-eefje@TELE2.SE In-Reply-To: <011c01c3ef9c$fbe79260$dc2965d5@ronmierl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:12 AM 2/10/2004, you wrote: >I had not heard of this before, is it true? Are there any clarifying >pictures around >that show this? Sort of. Queens do release themselves as workers do. But they don't eat/chew up the whole cap like the workers do, rather they chew around the cap often leaving a circular lid attached to the cell. I've observed this many times. Once when installing ripe cells pulled a bit later than I should have due to weather, several were actively chewing their way out, and one managed to free itself in the box. Unfortunately I don't have pictures (perhaps I'll take some this year). I did find one on the web, but of a less than typical case in my experience. http://www.three-peaks.net/bee_life.htm -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:47:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Steve Brown <140248@EPIX.NET> Subject: Beeginner Question - Cluster Location MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, This is my first winter with bees and I just did a brief inspection of = my two colonies. I've wintered both colonies with three(3) deep = supers/bodies. The weaker colony cluster is located in the middle super = and I am not concerned about it. However, on the stronger colony the = bees are in the top super up to the inner cover. There are several = frames of honey on both sides of the cluster. My question is will I need = to feed these bees or rearrange the frames? I saved several unextracted = frames of honey and still have them in the freezer. Currently it is 35 = degrees F and sunny. A relatively warm day in northcentral Pennsylvania. = However I did not think it was warm enough to extensively manipulate the = colony. Any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you = in advance. Steve Brown Northcentral Pennsylvania :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:22:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Convection currents and hive moisture In-Reply-To: <200402100500.i1A3SZRp001857@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lloyd Spear wrote: Convection, I think, is Physics 101. The author is maintaining that warm moist air does not rise but somehow is 'driven' toward the sides of the hive next to the follower boards. Why the sides of the hive, and not the ends (which are not adjacent to anything similar to a follower board) is not discussed. The convection currents cause a movement of air in the shape of the outside portion of a doughnut. The hole of the doughnut represents where the cluster would be located. The outer edges of the doughnut would represent the outside walls of the hive. The warm moist air moves upward to the top of whatever is the inner cover, moves to the sides, and then down the outside walls, which are cooler and the moisture condenses on the walls of the hive. Like the doughnut, I would think the air currents occur on all sides only being affected by the opening of the front entrance. With the screened bottom boards, the moisture would have ample opportunity to exit the hive and thus the air being drawn up from underneath and through the cluster would be considerably drier than if there was a solid bottom board. Has anyone observed icicles hanging from the outer edges of the bottom of a hive which is wintering over with a screened bottom board? Why the sides of the hive, and not the ends? Maybe because some heat from the cluster is radiated to the ends of the hive which are not obstructed by intervening frames of wax (empty or full). Just conjecture. Mike Located 1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile, Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:02:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: The extraordinary honey bee mating strategy (was: drone sperm mixing) Lloyd writes: See Cobey's article "The extraordinary honey bee mating strategy..." reply: This is a three part article in the first three issues of 2003 American Bee Journal. It has many interesting facts, many which I did not already know. Thanks for the reference. She also says: "It is *impossible* to maintain selected stock when queens randomly mate with many drones of unknown genetic origin. ... we are in the *infancy stages* of bee breeding." [emphasis mine] pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:14:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Convection currents and hive moisture To the List: Doesn't anyone make a crack between the innercover and top super in the back side with a stick about 1/8 inch anymore, or use a Goble style inner cover? Here in the upper southeast this is a necessary form of ventilation in winter and summer. Regards, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC 27320 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:25:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Almond Pollination, 2004 To The List, FYI & Discussion, (" securing adequate suplies of bees" and "parasitic mites": From: http://bluediamond.com/growers/field/detail.cfm?l_location=3 "As in other areas of the state, reports have surfaced of growers having some degree of difficulty in securing adequate supplies of bees for the upcoming bloom. Concerns have also arisen regarding colony strength amid reports of problems with parasitic mites and their effects on the bees within the hives." Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC 27320 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:46:23 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two questions: 1 How can I distinguish jacobsonii from destructor? I have a sample of mites from S India and I would like to know whether they are vj or vd. 2 Does anyone know where I can find a picture of pollen mites? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:47:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Beeginner Question - Cluster Location In-Reply-To: <001401c3eff5$8fc84a80$af62e0c7@1jqg00b> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5BED745F; boundary="=======2A4C30D7=======" --=======2A4C30D7======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5BED745F; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > the stronger colony the bees are in the top super up to the inner > cover. There are several frames of honey on both sides of the cluster. >will I need to feed these bees or rearrange the frames? >Steve Brown >Northcentral Pennsylvania You don't have to "manipulate" the colony. Look down in as you did. If you can see honey, they're ok. Several on each side...you mean 6? That would be 36 pounds left. And maybe some in the combs below these six? Should be plenty to get through until spring. If they get down to two frames (15 lbs) then I would feed. Keep track of them between Willow and Dandelion, but they should have plenty until then. Mike --=======2A4C30D7=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:12:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Convection currents and hive moisture (was follower boards) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mike must have done quite well in Physics 101. Having now read the BC article, I guess I'll buy into the idea that condensation on the sides of the hives is enhanced by follower boards. I'm leaning in this direction for a number of reasons. Dave and Jerry seemed to support the idea (if I follow their posts correctly), but I'm leaning in this direction mostly due to the original reason I ever used follower boards, which is comb honey production. _Honey_in_the_Comb_ by Killion (I don't recall if it was Carl (I think so) or Eugene) strongly recommends follower boards for comb honey production for improved ventillation to help bees dry nectar. Killion claims the space between the hive walls and follower boards allow the bees to set up the convective currents to evaporate moisture faster and more efficiently. I have witnessed the bees fanning in the space created by the follower boards. Now, bees fanning in the summer is a lot different than bees clustered in the winter, but I am willing to accept that the benefits alluded to in the BC article can be achieved even though it is a passive construct in the winter (no bees are fanning). The is far from scientific proof, but I'd be at least inclined to accept what the author claimed as a definite possibility. I don't know as I'd be willing to trek out to my hives and tear a few apart to see if it is so. Speculating is so much more fun, eh? Aaron Morris PS: I purchased my follower boards from Rossman Apiaries. I sent Fred the plans from Killion's book (actually Killion's plans make the boards too short for Langstroth equipment, but I corrected that in the plans I sent to Fred) and Fred whipped up a few hundred in no time at all. He even started offering them in his catalog for a few years, but dropped them as the demand wasn't there. But if anyone wants to purchased follower boards, give Fred a call, tell 'im Aaron sent ya! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:35:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: The extraordinary honey bee mating strategy (was: drone sperm mixing) More on this topic: Tom Seeley states on his web site: The curious promiscuity of queen bees, which mate with and utilize the sperm of a dozen or more males, has long been a mystery. With my colleagues Paul Sherman and Kern Reeve, I have suggested that this polyandry is advantageous for it endows a queen with a great deal of genetic variability among her workers, and this could prove vital in resisting one of the many parasite-based diseases to which honey bee colonies are susceptible. *This hypothesis remains to be tested.* http://www.nbb.cornell.edu/neurobio/department/faculty/seeley/seeley.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:07:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: clipping of queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An old beekeeper in our club says that bees will kill a clipped queen. They consider her damaged and will raise a supercedure queen. Comments??? Kathy Cox, Bloomfield Bees and Bouquets Northern California, Italian, 13 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:39:07 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Queen Paint Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi George & All, >You and I have perhaps had a few disagreements, mainly because I know >NOTHING >about Alaska except I know that the U.S. bought it from Russia just after >the >end >of our Civil War for only about 6-7 million dollars, and the American >public >called it Secretary of State Seward, "Sewards Folly". > Partly true, and yes the purchase of Alaska by Seward was probably a Folly but not to those who live in and love Alaska. >However, as a scientist (which you seem to discredit or have little >confidence), > Not true, I just do not believe all science just like not all people believe in God. I know this might upset a scientist (not all) that thinks all science is the gospel. What one scientist has proven correct one day could be proven wrong another day. I think for myself and prove to myself and see things for myself, because you can not believe all you read. In my previous post I stated I do not mark my queens for reasons of my own, I made this statement because I did not want to get into a debate about my reasons which would make little good. People can mark their queens if they please, I do not. In my opinion it is not something that needs to be done and does not prove you to be a better beekeeper if you do it. There are good solid reasons why a beekeeper would choose not to mark queens. Some beekeepers want a clean hive and do not put foreign substances in a hive. I can ID a queen if I wanted to without painting her or marking her with paint. As far a linage goes where I am I develop a sphere of influence where I keep bees and most drones in the area are drones from the colonies I keep. This is quit good enough for all intensive purposes. I am note going to overly concern myself with the small stuff and worry about the few drones out there that are not from the colonies I keep. Nothing in life is completely perfect and no matter how you try to make it perfect it won't be. Anyway a perfect world to me is a imperfect one. For millions of years as imperfect as the honey bee was or wasn't it survived great without man keeping them, now look how messed up they are with man trying to perfect them and keep them. Have a nice day, and MARK YOUR QUEENS only if you want or think you need to. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:08:40 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites Peter Edwards said: > How can I distinguish jacobsonii from destructor? Jacobsoni are nearly round, while destructor are ellipical in shape. Destructor is also larger (when comparing adults to adults). This semi-famous set of mug shots has appeared all over, but I have no idea who made the photos. A very nice side-by-side comparison. http://www.anu.edu.au/BoZo/trueman/labsite/images/mite.gif Also, the abstract of the paper that presented "varroa" as being more than one mite is here: http://www.kluweronline.com/oasis.htm/260786 > Does anyone know where I can find a picture of pollen mites? This is a lousy image, but I am assuming that you'd rather have something than nothing: http://www.tarencotta.com/bees/winterize.htm jim (Who ate tonight at a place so noisy you can't even hear yourself taste!) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:15:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit With the help of a colonial era scholar friend of mine, I do have a source for the name "White man's flies". It comes from the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia, and the reference is entry 794. "794. BEE, The Honey. — The honey-bee is not a native of our continent. Maregrove, indeed, mentions a species of honey-bee in Brazil. But this has no sting, and is therefore different from the one we have, which resembles perfectly that of Europe. The Indians concur with us in the tradition that it was brought from Europe; but when, and by whom, we know not. The bees have generally extended themselves into the country, a little in advance of the white settlers. The Indians, therefore, call them the white man's fly, and consider their approach as indicating the approach of the settlements of the whites. — TITLE: Notes on Virginia. EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 319. EDITION: Ford ed., iii, 175. PLACE: [none given] DATE: 1782 " :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:17:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And for the edification of our Swedish and Canadian members, I add the following entry. "How far northwardly have these insects been found? That they are unknown in Lapland, I infer from Scheffer's information, that the Laplanders eat the pine bark, prepared in a certain way, instead of those things sweetened with sugar. [* * *] Certainly if they had honey, it would be a better substitute for sugar than any preparation of the pine bark. Kalm tells us the honey-bee cannot live through the winter in Canada. They furnish then an additional remarkable fact, first observed by the Count de Buffon, and which has thrown such a blaze of light on the field of natural history, that no animals are found in both continents, but those which are able to bear the cold of those regions where they probably [Col 2] join. — TITLE: Notes on Virginia. EDITION: Washington ed. viii, 320. EDITION: Ford ed., iii, 176. PLACE: [none given] DATE: 1782 " :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:54:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Randell Subject: Queen Paint Two words; Liquid Paper Been using it for years, cheap, easy, one hand, dries in seconds, bees don't know it's there. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:25:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron & Eefje Subject: Re: Cutting of queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I've never come that far yet to see any queen cells, they are still new to me, at least from my own hives, don't forget that I started my beekeeping last year when some of you guys had harvesting going on. This coming year however should indeed give me answers to this and other questions. But, if my leg was pulled, then this also occurred with a bunch of other beekeepers, since all present at the time seemed to agree, or at least did not go against it. I will follow this on! Ron van Mierlo > Hi Ron > > > one beekeeper claim that queens cut themselves from the queen cells > > with some kind of horn like device or their head, as opposed to the > > nibbling or eating away of the wax by the other colony members. > > Someone is pulling your leg... If you have any doubts about this merely open > a few queencells of random age and look at the head. > > > Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:02:38 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: clipping of queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kathy > An old beekeeper in our club says that bees will kill a clipped queen. They > consider her damaged and will raise a supercedure queen. It is possible, but it is very, very rare in my experiance in UK. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:15:25 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: clipping of queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > An old beekeeper in our club says that bees will kill a clipped queen. They > consider her damaged and will raise a supercedure queen. Comments??? I would not believe this as we clip all our breeder queens and they last for a long time. We do not have problems with them being "superceded". Probably just a story that cannot be justified just in the same way that if you clip a queen its progeny cannot produce organic honey. Not sure how the clipping affects the properties of the honey. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:24:56 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This semi-famous set of mug shots has appeared all > over, but I have no idea who made the photos. > A very nice side-by-side comparison. > http://www.anu.edu.au/BoZo/trueman/labsite/images/mite.gif I would suggest the photos have been posted by the varroa co-author with Dr. Denis Anderson, Trueman. The abstract address was also posted by Jim. Note that it has Trueman in the address and the ANU is the Australian National University in Canberra, Australia. Denis is based at CSIRO in Canberra. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:34:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Wax Moth Identification In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040210153838.00b898a8@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to some prodding by a helpful list member, I have been researching wax moth information available on the net. It seems to say fairly consistently that Lesser wax moth larvae are small and pink, while greater wax moth larvae are large and white. In the photos on my wax moth page, which were all taken at once from one colony, I have small, white and large, pink larvae. http://www.blessedbee.ca/encyclopedia/honeybees/diseases/waxmoths.php Can anybody help me to reconcile this? Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:13:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: follower boards and convection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, Aaron seemed to say that the comments by Mike, Jim, and perhaps others supported the view that follower boards support convection. True enough. (With regard to Killion, he wanted 'follower boards' along all (4) sides of supers for very good reason...but that is another subject.) But the question was 'do follower boards prevent inner cover condensation as claimed by the BC article'? And, if so, what is the mechanism that has convection between the follower board and the hive outside and not along the front and back of the hive (where there is no follower board)? I for one, read Mike and Jim's comments to be 'nonsense, sure there is convection (as claimed in the BC article) but not because of the follower boards and not in a manner to avoid precipitation against the inner cover. Moreover, the convection is almost undoubtedly against all four sides of the hive and not just those that have follower boards'. Moreover, in a private message (so I will not quote it here) Jerry Bromenshenk at the University of Montana said much the same. I certainly don't think it unusual that Aaron and I reached different conclusions based on what was said...that is much of what beekeeping (and life) is all about. That said, I think the 'conclusion' that started this discussion (follower boards lead to redirecting warm humid air flow) is all too typical of successful beekeepers. I.E. they find something that works for them and from that draw (unsupported) conclusions that they consider gospel. Makes beekeeping challenging! Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:47:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: clipping of queens In-Reply-To: <003a01c3f087$f870d060$dd2cc2cb@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not have any problems with clipped queens either, could be the person clipping the queen damaged other parts of the queen like the feet by too much pressure. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:45:10 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Tooley Subject: Re: clipping of queens In-Reply-To: <003a01c3f087$f870d060$dd2cc2cb@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> An old beekeeper in our club says that bees will kill a clipped queen. Maybe..but not because of her being clipped.I clip spring queens and most are still there the following spring.I have clipped thousand of them over the years.One must be careful not to clip a leg off if the queen is struggling.Tell the old boy to put on his glasses! ----Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:08:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: follower boards and convection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What I wrote: "Dave and Jerry seemed to support the idea (if I follow their posts correctly)," What Lloyd read: "Well, Aaron seemed to say that the comments by Mike, Jim, and perhaps others..." What Lloyd wrote: "With regard to Killion, he wanted 'follower boards' along all (4) sides of supers for very good reason..." Killion's comb supers have air space on all 4 sides, he uses follower boards in the brood chambers as we have been discussing. Killion does NOT have the extra air space between hive walls and end boards of the frames in his brood chambers. What I wrote regarding 'do follower boards prevent inner cover condensation as claimed by the BC article?': "I am willing to accept that the benefits alluded to in the BC article can be achieved even though it is a passive construct in the winter (no bees are fanning). This is far from scientific proof, but I'd be at least inclined to accept what the author claimed as a definite possibility." Lloyd wrote: "... sure there is convection (as claimed in the BC article) but not because of the follower boards and not in a manner to avoid precipitation against the inner cover. Moreover, the convection is almost undoubtedly against all four sides of the hive and not just those that have follower boards." This dismisses the difference between the end bars of the frames and the front and back of a hive from the "dead air" space between the follower board and the sides of the hives. I know that bees do not heat the entire volume of the space within the hive. But there IS a dead air space between the follower board and the sides of a hive where there is NO dead air space between the end bars of the frames and the front and back of the hives. The front and back of the hive are actively included withing the convective currents caused by the cluster, whereas the sides of the hives have the barrier of the follower board removing them from the active convective currents, setting up what I referred to as a "passive space". I do not have sensors inside my hives to measure the air currents between the passive space between follower boards and hive sides to contrast with air currents between end bars and front and back of the hives. I doubt the questions has ever been examined at that level. > Moreover, in a private message (so I will not quote it here) Jerry > Bromenshenk at the University of Montana said much the same. If you won't share, I can't comment. > I certainly don't think it unusual that Aaron and I reached different > conclusions based on what was said... Or what was not said, but perceived. But agreed, no surprizes. > I think the 'conclusion' that started > this discussion (follower boards > lead to redirecting warm humid air flow) > is all too typical of successful beekeepers. > I.E. they find something that works for them > and from that draw (unsupported) conclusions > that they consider gospel. I assume this is in reference to the author of the BC article. I had never even thought about the possibility of condensation on the hive sides mentioned in the BC article until Lloyd's post. Seems Lloyd had was already convinced the claim was perposterous when he posted to BEE-L. Gospel? "I am willing to accept that the benefits alluded to in the BC article can be achieved even though it is a passive construct in the winter (no bees are fanning). This is far from scientific proof, but I'd be at least inclined to accept what the author claimed as a definite possibility." A definite possibility is not gospel. This is not a possibility that I'd be inclined to defend with much vigor. Truth be told, I have a hard time believing it myself. Seems to me that condensation would take place at the first cold surface encountered (which would be the inner cover). But a claim that the cooler, still moist air will fall into the passive space between follower board and hive walls, and condensation will take place there does not strike me as immediately dismissable. Such a claim certainly would not have me jump to equip all my hives with follower boards. I'll continue to use them for the benefit they give in room to move during hive manipulations. Aaron Morris - thinking I didn't say what Lloyd said I said! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:15:50 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Wax Moth Identification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Frank First, cangratulations on the stunning photo of the Achroia Grisella. The pink colour that your Galleria Mellonella grubs depict is strange as it is nothing like the pink colour that I have seen in Achroia Grisella, which I can only describe as the sort of light salmon pink you can sometimes see in mushroom gills. The colouration of the larva that was extracted from a coccoon is typical of the Galleria Mellonella grubs that I have seen. The pink colour is so different from 'normal' that I would hazard a guess that something the larvae ate was the cause. The row of coccoons along the side of the frame top bar are definitely Galleria Mellonella. However you state that lesser waxmoth do not eat wood, but I can assure you that British ones do, they leave a scallop like depression, but of size in proportion to body size. I should also add that British Achroia Grisella are capable of eating fully refined wax as well as debris in wax comb. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:31:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan Mihalyfi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of package bee suppliers that ship to Southeastern Michigan? I am new to the area. Please send responses directly to me. Thank you. Dan Mihalyfi 83:14:48.005W 42:17:18.798N :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:38:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Fall requeening I am cerious, what happens here. When the vergin queen emerges into a queen right colony, does the vergin fight with the mated queen before or after she mates herself? Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:21:37 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Wax Moth Identification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank I. Reiter wrote: I have small, white and large, pink larvae. > > http://www.blessedbee.ca/encyclopedia/honeybees/diseases/waxmoths.php > > Can anybody help me to reconcile this? Since wax moth larvae eat pollen, I suggest that pink (or probably red) pollen is the reason. Here the in the UK Midlands all wax moth larvae seem to be a dirty off-white colour - yellow inside if you squish them! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:55:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Almond Pollination, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: http://bluediamond.com/growers/field/detail.cfm?l_location=3 "As in other areas of the state, reports have surfaced of growers having some degree of difficulty in securing adequate supplies of bees for the upcoming bloom. Concerns have also arisen regarding colony strength amid reports of problems with parasitic mites and their effects on the bees within the hives." Many beekeepers are seeing coumaphos resistant varroa for the first time. A real shortage of hives exists in Almond pollination this year but the late bloom and offers of higher pollination fees have worked with a few holdout beekeepers. What I see from the above site : The bloom is very very late. My guess is about two weeks. according to the web site the nonpareil are expected to start blooming around the 16th. (or next Monday). I am positive the "Sonora" Varity which is currently blooming is one of the main pollinator varieties for Almonds. I do not know about the Neplus Varity talked about being blooming now. There are many varieties of Almonds but Nonpareil is the big number one grade Almond and the Almond most growers use. Because we are talking about the lower San Joaquin valley and the far northern groves bloom about a week later hives coming back from California are going to be late this year. If hives are two weeks late coming out of Almonds many growers of apples are going to be mad as they want the bees in the apple grove for *king bloom* and then pulled. Bringing in hives after king bloom upsets the whole apple growers game plan. Small apples and a thining problem. Will be interesting to see the way things work out. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:20:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter asks: 1 How can I distinguish jacobsonii from destructor? I have a sample of mites from S India and I would like to know whether they are vj or vd. Vj is round and vd is oval. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:15:43 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > Vj is round and vd is oval. Bob Clearly Vj are not 'round' (which I would take to mean circular) but, from the photographs on the website given by Jim, they are 'rounder' than Vd. Perhaps the ratio of their dimensions, width and depth, are the significant factor. The ventral view also shows significant differences both in the overall shape of the legs and of the ventral plate ( if that is the right terminology). I will look in more detail tomorrow, but the varroa found in S India appear identical in shape to those here in the UK - and first impressions (which may prove to be wrong) are that they look much more like the picture of Vj than Vd. Incidentally, the pictures of varroa on our own Ministry leaflets also look more like Vj than Vd to me - I wonder where they originated! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:22:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Re: Bee Workshop in Alberta, Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beekeeping For the Future: Integrated Beekeeping Systems Offered by Alberta Agriculture, Food and Rural Development and Alberta Beekeepers Association February 19, 2004: 9:00- 9:15 John Brown: The Apiculture Program in Alberta Agriculture 9:15- 9:45 Medhat Nasr: The American Foul Brood (AFB): a Disease or a Management Problem! 9:45-10:15 Fred Butterworth: CFIA Monitoring Program of Antibiotic R= esidues in Honey 10:15- 10:30 Coffee 10:30- 11:20 Adony Melathopoulos: The 3R's of Managing AFB=20 11:20-11:50 Ron Guridanus: A Viable Safe System for AFB Control: Irradi= ation of Infected Equipment 11:50-12:00 Robert Krag-Hansen: Iotron Facility in B. C. Equipment Irra= diation=20 12:00 1:15 Lunch 1:15-2:10 Ralph B=FCchler: European Style of Managing Bees for Foul B= rood Without Antibiotics=20 2:10-3:00 Adony Melathopoulos: Is Comb Drawing You Down: Disease Mana= gement Through Comb Renewal 3:00- 3:30 Coffee and Panel discussion=20 3:30-4:30 Bob Ballard: Alberta Beekeepers Strategic Plans Grant Hicks: Alberta Beekeepers Commission Proposal 4:30- 5:00 Open Discussion 7:30-8:30 Edmonton District Beekeepers Association Program "Sue=20 Cobey, Ralph B=FCchler, Adony Melathopoulos, and Medhat Nasr" Panel Discuss= ion on Bees, Pests &=20 Diseases February 20, 2004: 9:00- 9:30 Medhat Nasr: Future of the Honey Market: Food Safety & Trac= eability 9:30-10:30 Ralph B=FCchler: Integrated Varroa Mite Control in Europe=20 10:30-10:45 Coffee 10:45-11:30 Medhat Nasr: Basics and Practices of IPM =20 11:30- 12:15 Sue Cobey: Breeding and Queen Production: Opportunities and Constraints 12:15 1:15 Lunch 1:15-2:10 Sue Cobey Queen Quality: The Big Unknowns and Expectations = 2:15-3:00 Ralph B=FCchler: Breeding for Varroa Resistance=20 3:00-3:15 Coffee 3:15-4:00 Medhat Nasr: Nutrition: Does it Matter? Speakers: Dr. Ralph B=FCchler, Research Apiculturist, Honey Bee Research Institute, K= irchhain, Germany Sue Cobey, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH, USA Fred Butterworth, CFIA Laboratory, Calgary, AB John Brown, Alberta Agriculture, Edmonton, AB Adony Melathopoulos, Agriculture Canada, Beaverlodge, AB Robert Krag-Hansen, Iotron Industries Canada Inc. Port Coquitlam, BC=20 Ron Guridanus, Commercial beekeeper, Stettler, AB Bob Ballard, Commercial beekeeper, Debolt, AB Grant Hicks, Commercial beekeeper, McLennan, AB Dr. Medhat Nasr, Alberta Agriculture, Edmonton, AB Two-day At-the-door Registration and lunch both days: $170.=20 Make cheques payable to: Alberta Beekeeping Association, 11434 168 Street=20 Edmonton AB T5M 3T9=20 Registration: 8:00 ? 8:45 a.m. Thursday, February 19, 2004=20 Meeting begins at 9:00 a.m.=20 Location: Executive Royal Inn, West Edmonton, 10010 178 Street Edmonton AB = T5S 1T3=20 Phone: 780.484.6000 Toll Free 1.800.661.4879=20 Room Rates: $82 and mention ABA Group #2299 when booking.=20 medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:05:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Re: Wax Moth Identification In-Reply-To: <000401c3f0df$ff3bfac0$82bc87d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Since wax moth larvae eat pollen, I suggest that pink (or > probably red) pollen is the reason. Here the in the UK > Midlands all wax moth larvae seem to be a dirty off-white > colour - yellow inside if you squish them! Both larvae were in the same hive at the same time, presumably feeding on the same pollen. I've never seen red or pink pollen in my area, but we do see orange (and even a lovely green). But I don't see how eating coloured pollen would make the white worm look very much pinker than the pink worm, which looks more or less white. Any other ideas? For anyone who hasn't looked yet, here are the photos: http://www.blessedbee.ca/encyclopedia/honeybees/diseases/waxmoths.php Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:05:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: D Thompson Subject: Re: Convection currents and hive moisture Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim said: I agree that moisture content itself has little impact on the buoyancy of air even under the best of conditions, ....... convention loop. This is not so, moist air is less dense than dry air 2 or 3 times each year mid spring, midday the weather is such that a hang glider can 'thermal' on moisture lift The 'thermal' is quite weak(1-200 fpm), longlasting, homogeneous and there is NO turbulence. Usually it tops out at 25-3000 AGL (or at least this is where patience runs out, its fairly boring) Back to the bees, I'm sure that this is enough energy between this and heat to drive a circulation loop. Dave :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:39:39 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: follower boards and convection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all clipped from Aaron's post... > 'do follower boards prevent inner cover condensation > as claimed by the BC article?': They will not prevent it, but they will alter the threshold at which condensation will form, by reducing resistance to the circulating air. I prevent condensation, at the top of the hive, entirely by using an insulated slab of expanded polystyrene within the structure of the roof, zero top ventilation and no 'inner cover'. This allows the warm moist air to stay warm enough to not drop it's water load at the top of the hive, the water stays vapourised until it reaches the colder sides of the hive. http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/rroof.html Shows a version of the solid roof, that is dimensioned for UK hives, but you can adjust to suit 'whatever' hive type. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:25:14 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ian > I am cerious, what happens here. When the vergin queen emerges > into a queen right colony, does the vergin fight with the mated queen > before or after she mates herself? Your question pre-supposes that queens will fight (which is not always the case). Generally the old queen will have left with a swarm around the time that the queencell was sealed, however if supercedure was the reason the cell was generated, then the queen and virgin can be kept apart by the workers for long enough for the virgin to mate. Old queens may die either at the hands of another queen or by direct action of the workers. Supercedure does not guarantee that the old queen will be disposed of and it is possible for her to live several years alongside a daughter and on a small number of occasions a grandaughter as well. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:04:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Convection currents and hive moisture In-Reply-To: <200402120104.i1C14xN7009262@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D Thompson wrote: > This is not so, moist air is less dense than dry air > > 2 or 3 times each year mid spring, midday the weather is > such that a hang glider can 'thermal' on moisture lift > Back to the bees, I'm sure that this is enough energy > between this and heat to drive a circulation loop. Apples and oranges. You are describing an energy filled environment (the sun) while the discussion involves what is inside the hive where the only source of energy is the cluster. Outside the hive, conditions at night would not lead to the kind of thermals encountered in the day, especially in a uniformly mixed local atmosphere. Loads of other variables could lead to "sinking" moisture laden air as well as rising. (Just add a water body.) It all depends on energy transport, as shown by thermals in the day time. In the hive, the issue is the movement of air caused by the heat of the cluster including respiration. You can get convection because the moisture in the air will condense ("where" appears to be another issue and that has all to do with the temperature of the surface the moist air comes in contact with). The less dense air will sink. But if there is a vent above the cluster, the flow will be more up and out than up and down. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:17:07 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: follower boards and convection To each his own, but I think that we lack both hard facts and plausible explanations of mechanisms that I would "buy" to support any of the following claims: a) That airflow in a hive is a "convective loop" when there are bees in the hive, and the hive is subjected to environmental forces (wind, temperature fluctuations, etc). b) That follower boards creating a slightly wider space between the hive body and the first interior surface than a comb would, and on only two sides of the hive, are enough to eliminate problematic "roof condensation" in a hive under a wide range of conditions. c) I might be more inclined to believe (b) this effect were enhanced (or only detectable) if one SIDE of the hive was facing south, and hence the larger space was exposed to the warming of the sun, but no one has claimed this, and most folks are not going to want entrances that face east or west, especially in winter. (Don't flame me pallet users, you have allowed "packaging" to override optimal conditions for the bees in my view. It is a fair tradeoff, it just ain't "optimal".) As luck would have it, we are blessed with the presence of Jerry Bromenshenk, who seems to have as many wires in some of his hives as bees. :) We are also blessed with Lloyd, who is smart enough to see the implications of all this for his Ross Round supers, and is wondering if he REALLY should be telling people to use 7 plastic assemblies per super, rather than 8, and likely has sketched a new "adapter kit" with bigger spaces at the sides of the super to test against his current "8-frame" approach. Jerry has a buddy (Robert Madsen) who is running a study that appears to support the "convective loop" contention. Problem is, my PhD is in physics (rather than beekeeping), and I don't "buy" extrapolation of small-scale airflow within a limited space based upon nothing more than temperature measurements with thermocouples. [I call George Imrie as a cooborating expert witness on this point, but only if he promises to stop leaning on the caps lock key! :) ] So, let's help Madsen out, and suggest an improved methodology for his study that will allow him to have much more "bullet-proof" data, by doing a cursory cross-check of his existing data set with data from sensors that really measure both humidity and airflow. (If Madsen is not interested, Lloyd may want to fund Jerry to do this work...) MOISTURE This one is easy. The lab's "quartermaster list" database includes one of these, as someone apparently ordered one for some reason, and it now sits on a shelf in the stockroom: 10-90% Humidity Sensor BC1333-ND $11.94 www.digikey.com Hey, that sounds like just the ticket! A cheap, small sensor that can detect "humidity"! Never used one before, but there it is, waiting to be played with. Perhaps Robert Madsen can be convinced to add some of these to his hive instrumentation. (There are likely lots of other similar sensors out there.) AIRFLOW I also said I don't like "airflow" data that was extrapolated from mere temperature readings from thermocouples. Why? Because it is so easy to directly read airflow, all cars made in the past decade or so have "mass airflow sensors". The better/newer ones are 100% solid state. I don't have a specific off-the-shelf low-cost sensor to suggest here, but there are several lab-grade sensors, and I'd bet that one could find a mass-produced automotive sensor that was both cheap and sensitive enough to read the very slow, gentle airflow claimed to exist in beehives. To explain how it works, in a "hot-wire sensor", air flows around a wire heated by a tiny electric current. The wire is kept at a constant temperature by the current, as the temperature of the wire determines the resistance of the wire, and thereby, the current. (In other words, the wire is a "lousy" resistor for any other practical electronic application except this one, as it has a serious problem with "temperature drift" that is being exploited.) As one gets increased air mass flow (more volume, or colder denser, air) past the sensor, convection heat transfer from the wire to the air is increased, and more current is required to regulate the temperature. The current requirement thus acts as an index. It is converted to a voltage signal which is then used. In general, the power (volts * amps) required to keep the "hot wire" at the same temperature is proportional to the square root of the airspeed (King's law). So, there ya go... any takers? jim (Who thinks that there is a fine line between optimism and self-delusion about simple models of anything that goes on in a beehive.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:52:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Layne Westover Subject: Re: Wax Moth Identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >But I don't see how eating coloured pollen would make the white worm look >very much pinker than the pink worm, which looks more or less white. > >Any other ideas? > >For anyone who hasn't looked yet, here are the photos: > http://www.blessedbee.ca/encyclopedia/honeybees/diseases/waxmoths.php > >Frank. Maybe you have a "sport" or it may just be genetic variability. As I read various people's descriptions of what wax moth larvae look like in their country/area, I recognize that they look different here too. In my area, they are normally a gray or brown color on top (fairly dark) and creme color underneath (speaking of greater wax moth larvae). The picture at the bottom of the page that you describe as a chrysalis is probably a "prepupa". It will not be a chrysalis until it sheds its skin. It seems from my observations that the wax moth larvae spin their cocoon and remain in the larval state until Spring when the weather warms up, and at that time they continue their metamorphosis through the chrysalis/pupal stage and then adults emerge. If I tear open the cocoons in the Fall or Winter, the larvae are usually capable of crawling around and spinning more silk, and normally they will spin another cocoon. They make wonderful fish bait and pet food too. My chameleon loves to eat them. You could almost consider them "another product of the hive" because they have their own intrinsic value. Waste not, want not. (Anyone interested in buying a chameleon? I need to move on to my next "project".) Layne Westover, College Station, Texas, U.S.A. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:27:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: follower boards and convection In-Reply-To: <057f01c3f16a$83f9f610$7604c518@gollum> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim, No where did I say that we weren't measuring humidity or air flow - you jumped to that conclusion, and you should know us better than that. In fact, moisture more than heat seems to induce fanning. And, the bees may be using their bodies for heat loading and transfer. All in all, its not simple, and it takes time and money. Bob Madsen's been working on this for four summers now, and is narrowing in on the issues. One of the problems with multiple probes and measured parameters, one can drown in the data -- but you obviously know that from your SuperCollider work. Bob and Del Kilgore's results raise as many questions as they answer, and we don't have all the answers yet. Just enough to know that many of the "truths" in the literature about bees and air movements "aren't". And yes, you're right, bees take advantage of, don't change, the laws of physics. However, if you're volunteering to come out and help Bob next summer, we'd be glad to have your assistance and expertise. On the other hand, I'm not going to engage in further speculation about how the air moves. I suffer enough from foot-in-mouth disease. We'll let you know when we figure out the data. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:38:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Dave & All, Dave said: Supercedure does not guarantee that the old queen will be disposed of and it is possible for her to live several years alongside a daughter and on a small number of occasions a grandaughter as well. Dave and many others on the list have said the above many times. >From my personal experience I see the above as a very very rare occurrence at least in the bees we use in the U.S.. We requeen on a regular basis. At times up to four beekeepers finding and dispatching old queens. We do not install a new queen until the old queen has been dispatched. If another queen is in the hive then usually the new caged queen is killed in the cage. The method I use to install new queens lets me know for sure when two queens were in the hive . My guess would be one in around 200 hives has two laying queens. Even my two queen hives which were combined into the main honey flow end up with only one queen in spring. At least 90 percent of the time the top queen. Do others find that when two hives are combined and the top queen is marked a different color that the top queen almost always is the survivor in spring? I do not doubt Dave's observations and only adding mine because they are different than Dave's observations. Many beekeepers methods do not allow for knowing if two queens were in the hive but my method does. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:14:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Flying insects make news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Peter Borst submitted a copy of an article in today's New York Times. Unfortunately, due to copyrights, the article cannot be quoted on BEE-L. For those who subscribe to the online New York Times, the article can be viewed at: http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/12/scie nce/12INSE.html (Watch the line wrap in that URL, which should be a contiguous character stream). Without violating copyrights, the article starts as follows: Oldest Known Insect Identified From 400-Million-Year-Old Jaws By CAROL KAESUK YOON NY TIMES February 12, 2004 Scientists say they have discovered the world's oldest known insect fossil, a 400-million-year-old set of minuscule jaws that have been lying unrecognized for nearly a century in a drawer at the Natural History Museum in London. The finding, being published today in the journal Nature, .... For those who subscribe to Nature, the full article can be viewed at: http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v427/n6975/f ull/nature02291_fs.html (Again, watch the line wrap). Aaron Morris - thinking copyrights police, sigh :-( :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:32:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Fall requeening In-Reply-To: <001801c3f186$c43316a0$3cbc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-421E23B3; boundary="=======43C1377C=======" --=======43C1377C======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-421E23B3; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Supercedure does not guarantee that the old queen will be disposed of and it is possible for her to live several years alongside a daughter > From my personal experience I see the above as a very very rare occurrence >at least in the bees we use in the U.S. My guess would be one in around >200 hives >has two laying queens. > I once found 7 colonies out of 100, that had two queens. I was preparing > to requeen these colonies. I killed to old queens, and gave new queens in > introducing cages (not mailing cages). The candy hole was corked for two > days. When I returned to pull the corks, the bees on the outside of the > queen cages didn't all act the same, in every hive. Most were clinging > losely on the cage, feeding the queen, or walking. Some cages had a ball > of bees grabbing onto the cage with all their might. It was obvious they > were trying to kill the queen inside. There were seven out of the hundred > that were behaving like this. All 7 had a second queen. Mike > --=======43C1377C=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:41:16 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Fall requeening Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Bob, Dave & All, >I do not doubt Dave's observations and only adding mine because they are >different than Dave's observations. > That's because you and Dave are talking about two different things in all respects. Your talking mainly about requeening or putting a new queen into a queen right colony and Dave is speaking of supersedures and swarm queens. Not the same thing at all. workers will kill the queen if a foreign mated queen is just dropped in on them with a laying queen already in the hive. I am wondering why there is so much confusion discussing these different queens and how some of you are mixing these queen definitions up. I feel for the newbees trying to make heads or tails from this. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ _________________________________________________________________ Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:02:06 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable About 5% of all colonies at ALL times have two laying queens in them at = all times. Don't you realise that the rearing of drones means that the colony is = getting ready to rear queens - wether it is supersedure or swarming is = immaterial . In fact we always take the rearing of drones outside the = main drone-rearing period of spring as a sign that the queen needs to be = changed. It just the natural string of events. Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:16:47 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have now posted my first attempts at photography through a home-made dissecting microscope at: http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/Images/Varroa.htm Despite searching through debris in 2 apiaries, I was unable to find a single mite - so I have used some of the original sample first found in 1997. Having looked at a fairly large sample of mites and compared them with the reference photographs at: http://www.anu.edu.au/BoZo/trueman/labsite/images/mite.gif It seems to me that there is a considerable variation in the shape of mites from the dorsal viewpoint, i.e. the overall shape of the carapace; the one from Kerala and the top-right one from the UK both look like jacobsonii to me. However, the ventral views of the UK mites look like much more like destructor, although I am not so sure about that from Kerala. Opinions welcomed! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:42:17 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Steve Rose Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Keith and all > >I do not doubt Dave's observations and only adding mine because they are > >different than Dave's observations. > > > > That's because you and Dave are talking about two different things in all > respects. Your talking mainly about requeening or putting a new queen into a > queen right colony and Dave is speaking of supersedures and swarm queens. > Not the same thing at all. workers will kill the queen if a foreign mated > queen is just dropped in on them with a laying queen already in the hive. I > am wondering why there is so much confusion discussing these different > queens and how some of you are mixing these queen definitions up. I feel for > the newbees trying to make heads or tails from this. > I'm a newbee but it all seems clear to me. If I explain how I see it perhaps some oldbees can put me right if I'm wrong. Some strains of our (British) native bees AMM are reluctant swarmers and often replace their queens at the end of the season by supersedure. When this happens only one or two queen cells are produced and they are particularly big and contain well nourished queen larvae. They appear in the body of the comb rather than at the edges. Experienced AMM keepers can recognise them without difficulty. When the virgin queen emerges the old queen is not inclined to swarm off but remains in the hive. My knowledge runs out here because I don't know what causes her eventual demise. She may die of old age or she might be killed after a period of time which varies up to a couple of years. Beowulf Cooper, a contemporary of Brother Adam, but unlike Brother Adam was a qualified entomologist as well as an influential beekeeper, favoured bees with this trait. Fewer, if any, beekeepers in the US keep these bees and do not carry out, or wish to carry out, selection for this trait. Hence it is probably much more rare on that side of the pond. I suspect some Americans use the term supersedure to describe something completely different to the British definition. That's my viewpoint as a British newbee. If I'm wrong I need to know because I am investing a lot of time and energy on a system based on this viewpoint. Kind regards Steve Rose, Derbyshire, England :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:30:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter said: However, the ventral views of the UK mites look like much more like destructor, although I am not so sure about that from Kerala. Opinions welcomed! I believe they are all varroa destructor. I base my opinion on the varroa I have been looking at under a microscope in the U.S. for over a decade which are all said to be varroa destructor and looking now at the original pictures of varroa j. from the Varroa handbook. The pictures of varroa j. in the varroa handbook were from the initial id of varroa j. in Asia. There are 26 varroa shown in the book in both ventral and dorsal views. I can *in my opinion* see a definite difference in the shape of those varroa pictures of the real varroa j. and the varroa d. which is in the U.S. (which we originally thought were varroa j.) but stand to be corrected if an expert comes on saying differently. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:21:31 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Keith & All, I said: >I do not doubt Dave's observations and only adding mine because they are different than Dave's observations. > Keith said: That's because you and Dave are talking about two different things in all respects. Your talking mainly about requeening or putting a new queen into a queen right colony and Dave is speaking of supersedures and swarm queens. I thought Dave and I were discusing the percent of times I have actually seen two queens laying side by side in a hive. Roger must have thought the same as Roger put the percentage at 5 %. I believe that maybe different races like the Amm that Dave uses might tolerate two queens better than the races I use. Keith said: Not the same thing at all. workers will kill the queen if a foreign mated queen is just dropped in on them with a laying queen already in the hive. I use my method and use of marked queens to say I know when a queen has been superceded or a swarm queen was raised by the bees. I like George I. can not see how a person can tell much about a queen without clipping or marking. I NEVER add a new caged queen until the hive has been queenless for the required amount of time for the bees to KNOW they are queenless. so when I requeen I am requeening a queenless hive . If I find a queen dead in a cage or if the queen is balled after being caged in the hive for awhile I check for a second queen. I have at times found a second queen but very vary rare which is unlike what others report. I do not doubt what others say and only say thats not what I see in my hives. In my area of the midwest I suppose I have got the most experience with two queen hives for honey production. My close friend Tim Tucker (current president of the Kansas Honey Producers ) is rapidly catching up to me and has a wonderful power point presentation on the subject. I learned the most about two queen hives from the late Willard Madole. Willard died in his nineties, spent a lifetime keeping bees and kept all his hives two queen for over thirty years. Willard wrote one article about his method for the American Bee Journal (vol.125 no.5 May 1985) for those having acess to old bee journals. I enjoy talking to Tim as Tim experiements instead of trying to follow what the written material says. Tim, Willard and myself found keeping two ladies laying under the same roof a challenge but others say easy and happens all the time. Keith said: I am wondering why there is so much confusion discussing these different queens and how some of you are mixing these queen definitions up. I feel for the newbees trying to make heads or tails from this. I believe you might be trying to put a simple label on a complex subject. Newbees will always be lost on Bee-L until they get a couple years under their belt and read a few beginner books. We all are willing to help newbees but at the same time BEE-L IS the number one bee list in the English speaking world as far as number of members and activity. At times a simple question asked by a new beekeeper can evolve into an in-depth and complex discussion when all the newbee really wanted was a simple how to do answer. I have noticed that a few researchers have started to post again on BEE-L. Those people are hard to convince of many our unproven opinions on beekeeping and why shouldn't they? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:53:39 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob & all Bob says (talking about mother and daughter supercedure)... > From my personal experience I see the above as a very very rare occurrence > at least in the bees we use in the U.S.. I am not surprised by this at all... Annual requeening will almost always take this phenomena out of the equation, because it rarely happens until a queen is at least 18 months old. My actual thoughts on this aspect of behaviour are changing slightly. I previously thought that this mother/daughter situation was a feature of AMM bees (because that is where I have seen it to be commonplace), but I am swinging around to view it as behaviour that enhances survival of well adapted gene sets to particular conditions that are marginal for regular 'drone assembly' mating to occur. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:58:32 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike & all dave originally said... >> it is possible for her to live several years alongside a daughter Mike replied... > From my personal experience I see the above as a very very rare > occurrence at least in the bees we use in the U.S. My guess would > be one in around 200 hives has two laying queens. I have not have enough colonies over the last few years to be able to put precise numbers on it, but within the colonies I have kept over the last 20 years I reckon as many as 25% would have had two queens, three queens is a good deal rarer and I would reckon one hive in 200 to one hive in 300 having three generations. I also think that two queens is more common than many think, simply because they 'see' a queen and presume that she is the only one... They do not go looking for a second queen. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:22:11 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Fwd: [BEE-L] sensors T, RH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > MOISTURE > > > > > 10-90% Humidity Sensor BC1333-ND $11.94 > > www.digikey.com > > > > Hey, that sounds like just the ticket! A cheap, > > small sensor > > that can detect "humidity"! Never used one > before, > > but there > > it is, waiting to be played with. > > I am not a PhD and this topic is a bit far from my > "core know-how". Nevertheless, by coincidence, I > spent > those 2 last weeks playing with RH and thermocouples > for technologic validation in a pharma application. > Those people are very stringent about instruments, > calibration, methodologies, tracking and so on. My > little experince with RH sensor lead me to be very > very reluctant to trust the above sensor. I checked > briefly the data sheet and I would just use it at > home, nothing more. I recently bought several RH > probe > from 200$ to 700$. Even at those prices, accuracy > guaranteed is only 2% RH. I even required special > calibration (not standard factory calibration) > according to known calibration protocol but found > deviation when using probes on-field. Drift has to > be > checked frequently. All this in an extremly clean > and > controled environment, with controled flow, not in > waxed, propolised and turbulent flow environment. > Quality RH probe seem to me quite big and invasive > in > the hive. But once again, I am not an expert in this > field and I may ignore adapted instruments. > > Even for thermocouples, I would check closely raw > data, type of thermocouples used, drift, calibration > and so on before being confident with data although > the 8 or 16 bits data logger will give you 5 or > maybe > 10 numbers after the point. Especially in a study > spread on several years in such environment as a > hive. > For example, 0.4C offset drift is not uncommon, even > with a T-type thermocouple. And I do not speak about > "electronic noise", shielded wire, and data logger > sampling... Shortly, everyone can put a button > temperature sensor in the hive and obtain results. > But > validated results obtained according to the > state-of-the-art allowing flow interpretation is > someting else. Forget cheap and quick > (unfortunately)! > > > > Hervé > > > > > > > Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui > vous suit partout ! > Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur > http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ > Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:42:43 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Hack Subject: Re: Fall requeening In-Reply-To: <001801c3f186$c43316a0$3cbc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob and All, You wrote: > We requeen on a regular basis. At times up to four beekeepers finding and > dispatching old queens. Can I safely assume that this includes fall requeening? I have read a lot of good things about fall requeening and would really like to do that in my 60+ hives (maybe more by next fall). I certainly appreciate all the posts that have been submitted on this subject and have saved most of them. I am however, having difficulty bringing all this information together and applying it in a practical way to my situation. I'm pretty familiar with most of the techniques for finding a queen but am not a 'professional' at it so sometimes I really have to tear a hive apart. In fall my hives are full of bees and honey. Should I really be tearing my hive apart looking for a queen that I might not find. And if I don't find her, but (not knowingly) kill in the process of looking for her, what then? I've read so much about not disturbing the brood nest after the end of July (or somewhat later depending on who you read and what your location is). I can manage lifting my shallow depth honey supers, but full sized brood chambers are a much greater challenge for my old back. I've thought about going all shallow, but because our nectar flow is very unpredictable here, it has been a real challenge to get what comb drawn I already have. At my age I don't know that I want to discard all my full sized fully drawn equipment. Lloyd suggested requeening using four frame nucs. But what would I do with a 120 plus frames full of honey that I'd be taking out to make room to put in the nuc frames. I certainly don't want to extract honey from contaminated brood frames. I've tried putting them on top of the hive in various configurations, none seem too successful for me. The approach of using a queen cell fastened to a honey comb seems like a good idea. Thanks for your post on that Lloyd. So far my two efforts at raising queens met with limited success. Must give that another try. So far I take frames of eggs from strong hives and make up double nucs that I use in spring as needed. They almost always make good queens themselves. Plus I buy whatever extra queens I need. They have the added advantage that I get professionally bred quality stock into my gene pool. In summary, I would very much like to requeen in fall, but how do I do it within my constraints. The biggest is my limited experience of barely five years of beekeeping. There are no large beekeepers in my immediate area, a rather cool/damp unpredictable climate (just north of the Okanagan, 51 deg lat. 120 deg long). Maybe there's a reason? Maybe I shouldn't have so many hives, but people just beg for my honey as it comes off the extractor no matter what price I charge. We even had a long distance phone call from a 73 year old grandmother in Germany, just wanting to tell us that ours was the best honey she has ever tasted. That's pretty satisfying. Everything about beekeeping is very satisfying for both myself and my wife. All the best to all for the coming season! Cheers, Bob > -----Original Message----- > Behalf Of Bob Harrison > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:39 AM > We requeen on a regular basis. At times up to four beekeepers finding and > dispatching old queens. > We do not install a new queen until the old queen has been dispatched. > If another queen is in the hive then usually the new caged queen is killed > in the cage. The method I use to install new queens lets me know for sure > when two queens were in the hive . My guess would be one in > around 200 hives > has two laying queens. > > Sincerely, > Bob Harrison > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:18:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: fall requeening with cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Hack in British Columbia would like to have professionally produced queen cells for fall introduction. I have two suggestions: Contact Dave Miksa. Miska Honey Farms. Groveland FL. email to miksahf@aol.com. 352-429-3447. They are shipping cells all over the US by overnight UPS. For all I know, they may be doing the same to Canada. Contact Medhat Nasr. email to Medhat.Nasr@GOV.AB.CA. That's right, in Alberta. If anyone knows a cell producer within reasonable reach of you, he will. 'We' had Medhat for a few short months a couple of years ago, then he went back to Canada. Our loss and your gain. An invaluable resource. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:45:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: 2 queens in hive (was Fall requeening) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave said; I have not have enough colonies over the last few years to be able to put precise numbers on it, but within the colonies I have kept over the last 20 years I reckon as many as 25% would have had two queens, three queens is a good deal rarer and I would reckon one hive in 200 to one hive in 300 having three generations. 25%! Wow! If I was not starting a new beekeeping season and busy I believe I would buy a ticket and come see for myself. I would be willing to bet serious money that we could go through a hundred of my hives and not find two queens together this time of year! Dave said: I also think that two queens is more common than many think, simply because they 'see' a queen and presume that she is the only one.. Dave said: . They do not go looking for a second queen. Surely you jest but on the other hand if 25% of my hives had two queens happily laying together (and at times three?) I suppose you would need to search further. Could it be said then as above: "They do not go looking for a third queen" I enjoy your posts Dave and your web site! I have heard you talk of two queens happily laying together for years but I never dreamed at a rate of 25%. Hell I thought Roger's 5% seemed a bit high! I guess we will have to flush a few lurkers out and find out what they are seeing as far as two queens happily laying in a hive. How about you hobby beekeepers which are digging through your hives every four or five days all year. What are you seeing? My *opinion* is that what Dave is seeing is somehow a trait particular to his Amm. bees or a trait enhanced somehow by his breeding program selection. What say one of our list researchers? Have you selected breeder queens Dave based on the occurrence of two queens laying together happily in the hive? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:11:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another Bob asks: >Can I safely assume that this includes fall requeening? I never requeen in fall but combine the *dinks* and take equipment away from laying worker and queenless hives. Another Bob asks: > I have read a lot of good things about fall requeening and would Search as you may the archives you will not find me saying good things about fall requeening as I consider labor intensive and needs done at a time of the year I am the busiest. If you ever get a chance to buy or watch the video made by two of my favorite people James Tew & Kim Flottum do! The video is "Finding the queen" from Bee Culture's Beekeeping Workshop Jim opens a very strong fall hive to find the queen EXACTLY LIKE I OR YOU WOULD if the queen HAD TO BE FOUND. After going through all the frames twice and not finding the queen he closes the hive with a queen excluder between the boxes and returns another day. Been there done that! I love the video because it is a lesson in real life beekeeping. Not a video that shows the opening of the hive and then flashes to a frame the queen is on. The above video shows how to shake all bees on a sheet in front of the hive with a queen excluder on the bottom board. Jim is successful the first time but I had to try a couple times before I was successful using the method the first time years ago. In my opinion queens are only easy to find in a hive one time a year and then is when I check and requeen! Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:49:24 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If one was to regard the sahpe of a varroa as roughly elliptical then the shape could be defined by giving a range of the ratio of the major to minor axes. Could the ranges then define the difference between the two species, thus preventing the subjective assessments so far heard in this question of species identification. Ruary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Harrison" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 4:30 AM > > I can *in my opinion* see a definite difference in the > shape of those varroa pictures of the real varroa j. and the varroa d. > which is in the U.S. (which we originally thought were varroa j.) but stand > to be corrected if an expert comes on saying differently. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:07:44 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > The pictures of varroa j. in the varroa handbook were from the initial id > of varroa j. in Asia. Thanks Bob - but which Varroa Handbook - there are so many now! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:13:58 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Cushman wrote: > I also think that two queens is more common than many think, simply because > they 'see' a queen and presume that she is the only one... They do not go > looking for a second queen. I think that you have hit the nail on the head here. Unless queens are marked, how often do you see them unless you are really looking for them? In my experience not that often. After all, most of the books tell you to look at the work of the queen, rather than searching for the queen herself - and this is good advice! So, unless we have a marked queen and happen on another unmarked queen by chance, then we would not know that there are two (or more) queens in the hive. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:30:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter asks: Thanks Bob - but which Varroa Handbook - there are so many now! The Varroa Handbook "Biology and Control" By Bernard Mobus and Larry Conner The booklet was written by two authors , in two different continents on varroa. The information was the most up-to-date known in the spring of 1988. Because the publication was already being made when varroa was first discovered in Oct. of 1987 in the U.S. the varroa j. pictures were not of varroa d. which we now know is what we had at the time in the U.S.. Later pictures marked varroa j. but taken in the U.S. by researchers and published in the bee magazines we now know were in fact varroa d. and not varroa j. The Varroa Handbook is a hard book to find. Every time I see Larry I ask when the updated version is coming out. Larry sold out of copies about 10 years ago. Quote from the publisher: "We would expect to publish further editions of this handbook as knowledge of varroa jacobsoni changes" Larry Conner if you are reading the above is it not about time for an update? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:16:48 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Varroa and pollen mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ruary Rudd wrote: > Could the ranges then define the difference between the two species, thus > preventing the subjective assessments so far heard in this question of > species identification. This is the point that I made when I wrote: 'Perhaps the ratio of their dimensions, width and depth, are the significant factor.' So far, I have not seen any numerical data for the two species. When varroa first arrived here we were told 1.1mm by 1.6mm, but so far no definitive data to distinguish Vj from Vd seems to have been provided. Whilst I have still not had the time (and will not have the time for a couple of weeks) to measure the samples from Kerala and the UK, cursory examination shows a considerable variation in the proportions of the carapace. However, the ventral structure seems much more consistent, with Vd having a much broader ventral plate compared with Vj. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:20:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: 2 queens in hive (was Fall requeening) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Exclaimed: "I would be willing to bet serious money that we could go through a hundred of my hives and not find two queens together this time of year!" FWIW, the TIMES of the year when I do see this fairly rare phenomenon of two queens “side by side” in the Piedmont of North Carolina and on the south side of Virginia are mid-May through mid-June or Mid- September through October. I do not believe that I have seen this during either mid- Summer or prior to the spring honey flow. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC 27320 PS. In reference to the 2003 HONEY CROP officially due out at the end of this month here is the my report for Jody Roberts: "Oh, we ain’t got a barrel of honey, maybe we’re ragged and funny, but we’re moving along, singing a song, “side by side”"; everyone is welcome to join in. -Chuck :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:57:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] sensors T, RH In-Reply-To: <20040213142211.38271.qmail@web20803.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Herve's comments about the Digi-key humidity sensors are correct. In fact, finding an affordable, accurate, and reliable sensor for R.H. is surprisingly difficult. We've used more than 100 R.H. sensors, including those mentioned. In fact, I think we've probably sampled nearly everything that Digi-Key offers at some point in time. Having said that, everything gets more complicated inside the beehive, where the environmental conditions are rather severe, and where the bees want to remove or coat with propolis anything unusual in the hive. The one thing that we are sure about, the atmosphere inside a beehive tends to be as humid or more so that that of the exterior environment. Only in our arid west or indoor chambers do we ever have a problem of low humidity. Yes, bees, increase humidity. No, they don't decrease it much, if at all. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:42:16 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Fall requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We requeen on a regular basis. At times up to four beekeepers finding and > dispatching old queens. Yes but do they keep looking in a hive once they have found the queen? I can tell you from first hand experience that when re-queening, I have found a queen on the first or second frame but it is only that I caught a glimpse of a pulled down queen cell in the corner of a frame that I looked further and have found either a second queen or a virgin. If I had not seen that remains of a cell I would have had the queen I put in killed by the queen or virgin left in the hive. Particularly in autumn (fall for you northerners) is the time when I find this. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:54:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 2 queens in hive (was Fall requeening) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck said: . I do not believe that I have seen this during either mid- Summer or prior to the spring honey flow. I believe Chuck has maybe solved the riddle. The only time I am looking is in early spring. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:34:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Green Subject: Re: The price of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I checked the shelves of our local supermarket for the price of honey. I live in the northeast. 40oz goes for $3.18/pound[USA], closer to $3.60 for a pound and varietals in the $5-11 range. I raised the wholesale price of my honey recently and was glad I did. The amount of shelf space dedicated to honey has dropped too. Over two years ago about three times the space was being allocated for honey, now a space on one shelf about three feet wide was found. What is happening in your area? Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 gothoney@aol.com honeyetc.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:03:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 2 queens in hive (was Fall requeening) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck said: . In reference to the 2003 HONEY CROP officially due out at the end of this month here is the my report for Jody Roberts: "Oh, we ain't got a barrel of honey, maybe we're ragged and funny, but we're moving along, singing a song, "side by side""; everyone is welcome to join in. Another beekeeper on the list on the north Georgia line said via telephone he only got two barrels of Sourwood in 2003 because of rain and Sourwood is his main honey crop. Our problem was no rain in Missouri but my bees were trying to "hit the trees" early as they came back from pollination strong. I supered early and got about 3/4 of a normal crop. Many others did poorly. In our organization estimates ran between 25% to 50% of normal. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:03:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Convection currents and hive moisture In-Reply-To: <200402130504.i1D4jcOt002148@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill Truesdell Wrote: "The less dense air will sink." I don't want to cause an uproar but this statement is a mistake. Less dense air rises. It weighs less than air that is more dense. Example: Warm air front - Warm air is less dense than cold air. A warm air front is a long, long slant between air masses with the top and front of the warm air mass preceding the bottom and rear portion of the air mass maybe by as much as two hundred miles. Looks kinda like this, ( / ) only the slant is a lot greater with the warm air mass moving from your left to right. The rain produced in this type of front is generally a long, slow, gentle rain. A cold air front is generally no more than fifty to eighty miles wide with the cold air pushing in under the warm air, pushing it up. This is the type of front that produces your thunderstorms and occasionally a tornado. Back to the initial statement, less dense air will rise. MIKE - Lower middle Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:35:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: RH and desicated bees In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20040213145750.01ed8df8@selway.umt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, External 90%+ R.H. here in Manitoba seems fairly common - with movement to other levels as well. But, with the also frequent (permanent) sub zero temperatures, any air pulled into indoor conditions will show R.H. at far lower levels. Only in our arid west or indoor chambers do we ever have a problem of low humidity. So, what are the typical problems for bees being held in low R.H. conditions over extended periods or during in winter housing? Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:55:46 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: fall requeening with cells Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi All, This requeening with cells and shipping cells is intriguing and I am wondering if someone might explain how queens are shipped. How are they packed? how is their temperature maintained? At what stage of the cells development would be best for a quick delivery so they do not emerge before installation? Anything else that can be added that should be known? . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper,http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ _________________________________________________________________ Choose now from 4 levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - no more account overload! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:39:44 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: 2 queens in hive (was Fall requeening) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob & all > I would be willing to bet serious money that we could go through a hundred > of my hives and not find two queens together this time of year! You would not make any money out of me, because I would also bet that this is the case in your hives. > Dave said: > . They do not go looking for a second queen. > > Surely you jest No. I am dead serious, most beekeepers have been taught that there will only be one queen in the hive, so when they find 'one' their need is satisfied. The incredulity being raised on this list surely points to the fact that most consider one queen to be 'normal', but you can look at this from another angle... If multiple queens is more normal than previously though, then colonies with only one queen are at a serious disadvantage and will 'wear out' their queens more quickly. > My *opinion* is that what Dave is seeing is somehow a trait particular to > his Amm. bees or a trait enhanced somehow by his breeding program > selection. Chicken and egg here... Because I deal with AMM and supercedure is a trait well established in that race, I do deliberately select from supercedure strains and have been doing so for a long time. Whether I am selecting for AMM characters or I am selecting purely for supercedure as a factor in itself, is difficult to answer. Whilst it is possible that supercedure will be exhibited more by my methods, all the other features that have been used for selection have improved as well. However I repeat from a previous post *** My actual thoughts on this aspect of behaviour are changing slightly. I previously thought that this mother/daughter situation was a feature of AMM bees (because that is where I have seen it to be commonplace), but I am swinging around to view it as behaviour that enhances survival of well adapted gene sets to particular conditions that are marginal for regular 'drone assembly' mating to occur *** I believe that long term poor weather in my locality is a much bigger reason for this behaviour being so noticeable. Although even as far south as Northampton in UK there are apiaries that exhibit multiple queens in large numbers. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:04:24 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 2 queens in a hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 14/02/04 05:07:50 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > . I do not believe that I have seen this during either mid- > Summer or prior to the spring honey flow. > > I believe Chuck has maybe solved the riddle. The only time I am looking is > in early spring. > > I have seen it at the first inspection in Spring. My bees are local mongrels with a good percentage of Amm. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:08:55 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Ptelea trifolata MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This shrub is being advertised in the UK as being attractive to bees. It seems to be native to the eastern side of the US. Is it worth growing? Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:15:44 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Article on insect brains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is an interesting article in this week's New Scientist (www.newscientist.com) of work done on the brains of fruit flies, but also with references to honeybees. The headline of the article is ' It may be no bigger than a poppy seed, but some neuroscientists think the fruit fly's brain contains the rudiments of consciousness. The author peers through this unlikely window on the human mind.' It is worth a read if you aren't an anti-vivisectionist. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:31:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Fall requeening In-Reply-To: <006a01c3f218$0931c760$5864fea9@orac> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-71E11070; boundary="=======627F38C4=======" --=======627F38C4======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-71E11070; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Mike replied... > > From my personal experience I see the above as a very very rare > > occurrence at least in the bees we use in the U.S. My guess would > > be one in around 200 hives has two laying queens. Actually Bob said that. I said I had found 7 of 100 with two queens. Mike --=======627F38C4=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:46:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L: fall requeening with cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > How are they (cells) packed? how is their temperature maintained? At > what stage of the cells development would be best for a quick delivery > so they do not emerge before installation? I've never ordered cells, but inquired of Dave Miksa (whom Lloyd recommended) when he spoke to the Empire State Honey Producers Association last fall in Alexandria Bay, NY. Cells are shipped in battery cages with attendant bees. They are shipped UPS overnight express when they are very near emergence. He recommends that the customer have everything ready to go to install cells immediately upon arrival. There is a limited window of opportunity for shipping cells in that they must be hardened off enough that the developing queens wings are past the point where they can be easily damaged by jostling. Using the schedule on Glenn Apiaries' site: http://members.aol.com/queenb95/queenrear.html#anchor959974 My guess is cells are shipped at about the time they come out of the cell builder (day 14). My recollection is that the most critical/vulnerable to damage by jostling time is day 12. I',m not sure how much wiggle room there will be after that (day 12) and emergence (day 16), which is why my guess (which I suspect is spot on) is that cells will be overnight expressed on day 14, which is why Dave insists that customers be ready to install cells upon receipt, rain or shine. Aaron Morris - thinking long live the queens! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:43:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Convection currents and hive moisture In-Reply-To: <402D73D4.6030908@frontiernet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike wrote: > Bill Truesdell Wrote: "The less dense air will sink." > > I don't want to cause an uproar but this statement is a mistake. Less > dense air rises. In Maine it also rises. Thanks for the correction. I was more dense.. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:42:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: 2 queens in a hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/14/04 4:47:15 PM GMT Standard Time, CSlade777@AOL.COM writes: > I have seen it at the first inspection in Spring. My bees are local > mongrels > with a good percentage of Amm. > I find this very often. We have been through this thread before and I recall the same things being said. I cannot say what percentage of colonies we find it in, but it occurs in all races we have used. One particular case had an old queen (4 years), her daughter ( 1 year plus), and a supercedure cell, all present at the same time. ( I have mentioned this example before.) The two old queens were both marked, and their marks corresponded with the record markings on the hive. Thus we assume they were both present for over a year together , and when the young queen had been marked the year before the presence of the old queen had just not been noticed. The cell hatched, and then we had three generations present at one time. Once the grandaughter mated and laid it would seem the old ones got the elbow, as they were nowhere to be seen a month later. Murray :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:51:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Nicolas Bergeron Organization: Consultant biologiste & technicien Subject: Varroa * oxalic acid sublimation --> diminish life expectancy? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi; Can you see if the treatment with oxalic acid sublimation diminish bee life expectancy. And if yes, how many days? Thanks! NicBer :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:08:35 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gerald Herrin Subject: Question about queen marking In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A1116638C4@email.albany.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit According to the standard color marking on queens, when was the last year that blue was used. Thanks. > Gerald Herrin geraldherrin@earthlink.net "In the City men are counting money that will bury them one day in graves of gold." -- traditional Gaelic song :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:26:04 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: 2 queens in a hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Expect an increase in hives with two queens if you have been using = coumaphos based treatments for Varroa. Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:43:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alan Riach Subject: Cell size and Cell pitch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is sometimes some confusion over cell size(internal diameter) and cell pitch (distance from mid wall to mid wall). Internal cell size can't easily be determined from cell pitch due to variations in wall thickness (with age?) Cell pitch is often quoted in a different format i.e. number of cells per square inch or square centimetre. For interest the following is data from some random measurements I took from various frames: 1) 3 year old brood comb (drawn on untraceable foundation but probably Steele & Brodie of UK) Horizontal pitch 5.35mm(0.21") (Measurement of 149.7mm over 28 cells) Vertical pitch 4.51mm (0.18") (Measurement of 148.85mm over 33 cells) This gives 4.15cells per square cm.. (26.75cells persquare inch ) Average cell diameter was 5.09mm (0.20") measured using GO/NO GO plug gages Wall thickness (at thinnest point) was 0.26mm (0.010") measured using a Digital caliper. The wall thickness towards the hexagonal corners was much thicker, the cell internal shape being almost round. 2) 6 Month old Brood comb (Foundation origin possibly Thorne of UK) 3.77 cells per sq. cm. (24.3 cells per sq. inch). Cell diameter 5,58mm (0.22") Wall thickness at thinnest point 0.18mm (0.007") 3) Self Drawn super comb (heather honey) from starter strips There was a wide variation in cell size varying from 5.35mm (0.21") at the top of the frame to 6.9mm (0.27") at the bottom Wall thickness at thinnest point 0.15mm (0.006"). My conclusions from the above are that internal cell size probably reduces somewhat with time due to thickening of the walls and that the wall thickness starts off rather thicker than I had been led to believe (I had been told that wall thicknesses were less than 0.1mm (0.004").(my meathod of measuring wall was to close the calipers gently until it gripped the wall) The cell shape in the newer comb was less round (more hexagonal) than on the old comb.The bees when left to draw their own comb and when convinced it is for honey storage, economise on wax useage by opting for large cells. Measurement equipment -Miutoyo 150mm (6") digital caliper. Various calibrated pins for use as go/no go plug gages. Alan Riach Bathgate, Edinburgh Scotland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: 2 queens in a hive Perhaps this is why we see the odd 300-400lbs hive in the beeyards... Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:04:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Ptelea trifolata MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Chris & All, Chris asks: This shrub is being advertised in the UK as being attractive to bees. It seems to be native to the eastern side of the US. The common name in the U.S. is Hop-Tree or Shrubby Trefoil. The stuff grows wild all the way to way to west Texas. The shrub/tree is listed in both of the major books on American Honey plants. The California Hop-Tree (ptelea crenulata) is said not to be of importance to beekeepers but the Ptelea trifolata is said to be of importance to beekeepers in West Texas. My opinion is the shrub/tree is a minor nectar source. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:50:30 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: BEE-L: fall requeening with cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How are they (cells) packed? how is their temperature maintained? At > what stage of the cells development would be best for a quick delivery > so they do not emerge before installation? Here in Australia it is common to ship queen cells. We do it. The method we use is a 6 pack esky (a foam container that holds 6 stubbies of beer) filled with sawdust. We heat the sawdust in an incubator to 35 - 36 centigrade. We pack the cells in, sometimes two rows if needed. We can fit just over 100 in a single layer and 200 in a double layer. You put a layer of the sawdust down first, put in a row of cells and fill with the remaining sawdust. The cells are 15 days old, which means they hatch the next day. If you ship any younger you risk damage to the wings. When we pack the cells in the esky, we put it back in the incubator until it has to go or be collected. Some beekeepers collect them and we ship by bus to other beekeepers. We have shipped them up to 1800 kilometres by bus and further by air. Or course air only takes a couple of hours. One thing by air make sure they go in the pressurised cargo hold. If not they freeze. We do not do anything to maintain temperature as our temperatures are not cold compared to some countries. Today we are expecting 34 centigrade and we have had that for several days now. Further south it will be in the low forties With queen cells, heat is a larger enemy than cold. We use the same method of eskies and sawdust for our own cells when we are catching. When we have had excess cells, I have left them out of the incubator in the grafting shed and they do hatch the next day. Most beekeepers use the cells to put into nucs and do not use them to try to re-queen hives. We have found that if the hive is too strong it will destroy the queen cell unless you use some form of cell protection and then there is no guarantee they will not try to destroy it. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:01:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Almond Bloom in California I did find an isolated grower close to me with 20 acres. The guy he contracted out to called two days ago and said his bees were dead, and I am so close that I was able to move up 20 hives yesterday and today. The pollenator varieties are just reaching full bloom, but the main crop is just starting to swell, so I think I got in at the right time. To those with experience, at the rate of 1 hive per acre with an average of 6-8 frames of bees per hive will I have to put supers on if I keep them up there for 5-6 weeks? The hives get sun first thing and nobody sprays around there as far as I know. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:41:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: 2 queens in a hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Expect an increase in hives with two queens if you have been using > coumaphos based treatments for Varroa. Why? First queen not up to par so the bees raise a second? Would they both be not up to par? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:26:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Question about queen marking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > when was the last > year that blue was used. 2000 When You Requeen Get the Best 1 & 6 = White (When) 2 & 7 = Yellow (You) 3 & 8 = Red (Requeen) 4 & 9 = Green (Get) 5 & 0 = Blue (Best) Aaron Morris - thinking, What!? You Raise Green Bees!? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::