From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:45:35 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.6 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEEA248FE5 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlJ012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0402D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 143648 Lines: 3243 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:09:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: drone cells and varroa mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Trevor & All, Trevor said: We are lucky not have varroa mites but I have been studying them for years in the event that they do arrive. I studied the varroa mite years before we got varroa. Smart move! Trevor said: The above statement seems to suggest that the mite will enter any point of the larval development i.e. say day 3.I have been lead to believe that the varroa mite entered the cell just before it was capped. The mite going down and burying itself in the brood food at the bottom of the cell. Dr. Pedro has thrown his hypothesis into the mix as did Aaron and James. Each could be correct but the most accepted hypothesis by recearchers is the one you present that the varroa slips in and hides in the brood food prior to capping. Trevor said: If the latter is the case, then it does not matter how many times the larvae is feed, be it worker or drone. The point of entry is at the last stage. If the latter is the case then you would be correct but is the latter *always the case* and what is the percent of time. Further research need to be done. Trevor asks: Another point is does the mite have to come from a feeder to enter the cell? Cannot it enter under its own power as it is crawling around the comb? I am sure both of the above happen. I know of no research which has observed and could give percentages. My guess would be the varroa disengages from a bee which is in the cell and drops into the brood food a greater percent of the time than crawls in by itself. My observation hive observations tell me that worker bees are constantly looking in cells. Research from years ago said the worker bee or bees spend around 45 minutes cleaning a cell before the queen lays an egg. I do not know the amount of times a nurse bee looks in a cell at larva but I imagine the number of time per 24 hour period would be a huge number. Perhaps another BEE-L person has heard a figure? Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:10:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Skriba Subject: Insurance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I was wondering what kind of insurance coverage those of you who do have it, have on your bee operations? Not only liability, but how does one cover actual swarms agains perils such as vandalism, fire, theft and not diseases and weather? Bill Skriba Ithaca, MI :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:42:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Edward R. Boutin" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 18 Feb 2004 to 19 Feb 2004 (#2004-51) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dandelions. Have the novelist tell homeowners to stop using pesticides on this pretty and beneficial flower! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:50:04 EST From: Chris Wave Subject: help for novelist in boston area I am submitting this on behalf of a novelist friend whose main character has a few hives on a hobby farm outside of Boston. Any beekeepers in that area that could suggest believable plants honeybees would visit? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:20:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: Small cells bees & varroa (was Oxalic) Hi Frank, I've tried just about all the commercially available selections in the US on small cell. When on small cell comb they all easily handled the mites. They all overwintered great on the new small cell comb. I think it's a combination of cell size and the uncontaminated wax. No other special management techniques are required to run bees on small cell. Regards Dennis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:43:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Insurance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill asks: I was wondering what kind of insurance coverage those of you who do have it, have on your bee operations? I will respond but only in general terms in a public forum as the amount of insurance a person or business feels is neccessary is up to each person or intity. By intity I mean I am an S. corporation under Missouri law and the liability risks to me are the business and not personal assests *unless* neglect on my part can be proven in a court of law. I toured three agritourism farms last Monday and was astonished to learn that one of the farms was running a huge corn maze without insurance of any kind, thousands of people were on the property and touring the maze in Otober. The owners were in my opinion creating enough risk for a claim to justify getting liability insurance but chose not to and risk losing the farm through legal action. Many sideline beekeepers carry beekeeping insurance which can not bee justified to many because of the cost but makes the beekeeper sleep better at night knowing he/she is covered if a problem happens. I must say liability and product liability problems in the beekeeping industry are rare and claims small I have been told by beekeeping insurance sellers. As one of my insurance men put it. "You pay insurance premiums for protection and both you and your insurance man hope you never need to use your insurance!" At the present time you can buy whatever beekeeping insurance you think you need as long as you have not had a neglegence claim filed against you in say the last decade over an injury. A couple beekeepers had problems in the above regard but have moved past the issue now and when I last talked they were now insured. One went a year without ins.. Bill asks: Not only liability, but how does one cover actual swarms agains perils such as vandalism, fire, theft and not diseases and weather? When you move away from the general liability offered to beekeepers and product liability you can buy what you are looking for but the insurance is very high. I was even referred to Lloyds of London once. Vandalism and theft beekeeping insurance I have not seen. Fire I have got but not through my beekeepers liability & product liability ins. co. but through the insurance company which insures my main building by listing honey supers and equipment and putting a dollar amount on the value. I purchased the insurance on the supers, drums of honey on hand, etc. after the fire I had in the fall of 95 which I put out myself with help of a neighbor and my wife. My insurance was enough to cover losses in the fire then but would not have been even close if the whole building had went up . Another beekeeper insurance person is listed in the bee journals and I have priced insurance from his firm and I believe he will insure all aspects of beekeeping. His name is Roger Starks. Other than getting a price quote a couple times I know little about the company but have not heard any complaints and many beekeepers use Roger . Two large companies insure beekeepers in the U.S.to my knowledge. Roger Starks companies he writes for and "The Hartford Co." I imagine I have *as usual* provided more information than you were possibly asking for. Sincerely, Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:03:47 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James Kilty wrote: >>The parallel weakening of varroa, recognised in France<< Is it possible for you to give more details of this interesting subject = and possible references. Many thanks Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:45:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: World Awaits More GM Crops as Safety Debate Rages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit World Awaits More GM Crops as Safety Debate Rages http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=1&u=/nm/20040222/sc_nm/environment_gmo_diplomacy_dc (watch the wrap) allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:17:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anna Browder Subject: Wax Cappings on Bottom Board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I pulled out my bottom board under the screen today and found that there were wax cappings both right and left front on the board, in other words, below the last frames near the walls of the super. Can I take this as an indication that my bees are eating supplies from the outside frames? The temperature was in the high 40's today. I last cleaned the board three days ago, and found the same thing-wax below the outside frames. My hive feels heavy to me, but I am concerned that the bees are hungry, because they've been up at the tops for a number of weeks. I am feeding 1/1 sugar syrup, since it seems warm enough inside the hive so it doesn't freeze, and warm enough every few days for the bees to fly. Am I doing the right thing? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:18:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Goble style inner covers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/20/2004 1:31:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, GImasterBK@AOL.COM writes: Yes, I got your VERY NICE and explanatory letter; and THANKS! Good, because I have had some weird computer things going on. These are such great tools, but when they screw up....I'm lost. LOL It s CONSTANT concern to me that people condemn the Imirie Shim saying that bees build burr comb on top of the frames in the 3/4" hollow space of the shim. OF COURSE THE BEES WILL DO THAT, if there is not ENOUGH drawn comb super space available! Gosh, the bees are trying hard to tell the beekeeper that they need MORE super space to deposit their nectar, or they might swarm! I have never had a problem with the burr comb, except when I used it below a top feeder. So, I just put the IS on top and no burr comb! As a small time beekeeper (hoping to be bigger this year than last), I don't mind burr comb. We have had day after day of rainy weather and the bees are behined where they were at this time last year. I haven't seen any drones, so I have not split any hives yet. By this time last year, I had split 6 hives to 10 and caught my very first swarm (from my hive). I added supers to my hives this year already, because on the nice hours inbetween storms, the bees are bringing in nectar! I think I should be giving them more supers, so when we have a nice warm day, I'll get right on that. So much to learn and so many variables! If my bees normally average 3 full supers of honey during our April and May nectar flow, I always install 5 supers of drawn comb (NOT FOUNDATION) on April 15th. Hence, the bees have lots of room to store all that THIN WATERY nectar (maybe 20 pounds/day) until they have time to evaporate the water and ripen it into honey. Hence, I rarely have a swarm during a nectar flow. Ah, drawn comb, the beekeeper's most prized possession!!! I read that on your site and last year bought 15 supers, that were filled with drawn comb from a retiring beekeeper. At $15 a super, I felt like I had a gold mine!!! It was a good thing, because I caught 23 swarms and used every piece of equipment I owned. I am building equipment like crazy during this wet weather. Gearing up for a big increase. What I am saying is you should always have more supers of drawn comb (again, NEVER foundation) on your hive than you anticipate being filled with honey. What if you have no more drawn comb? Wouldn't the bees draw it since there is a nectar flow on??? My super configuration is: starting upward from the queen excluder (I strongly believe in queen excluders, and the are NOT honey excluders as some people say) there are 2 supers of DRAWN COMB, 1st Imirie Shim, 2 more supers of DRAWN COMB, 2nd Imirie Shim, the 5th super of DRAWN COMB, and topped with a Goble style inner cover which provides another UPPER ENTRANCE. I use QX, but usually only if I have comb honey above, or 3 weeks before I am going to extract, so that by the time I am ready, there should be no more brood left to hatch. Do you have the QX on during swarm season? Do you do any manipulation of the BB frames in order to keep space in there? By the way, DRAWN COMB is every beekeeper's MOST VALUABLE POSSESSION and one should never allow it to be destroyed by wax moths I bought out 5 x-beekeepers last year and one was full of wax moth destruction, but it had happened long ago, so there was no wax left, just feces and marred woodenware. One other one was really destroyed by the wax moth and I shook it all off in the driveway, before I pressure washed the frames. I was stomping live moths. I did that to the larvae, too. I thought I got them all, but the yellow jackets and wasps found the ones I couldn't!! Hence during a nectar flow, the congestion in the brood chamber is greatly reduced because the forager bees are using the 3 entrances into the supers (2 entrances in the 2 Imirie Shims plus the entrance in the Goble Inner Cover). The standard bottom board entrance is primarily being used by young bees taking orientation flights and the drones, of course. Well, I see that is one way to cut down congestion. Thanks for explaining these things to me! As always, I hope I have helped. Yes, thank you and please email me anytime! Kathy Cox, Bloomfield Bees and Bouquets Northern California, Italian, 13 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:28:22 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: drone cells and varroa mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "T & M Weatherhead" Another point is does the mite have to come from a feeder to enter the cell? > Cannot it enter under its own power as it is crawling around the comb? Trevor has hit the nail here surely. It would be more effective for the mite to de-horse when it feels like a bit of breeding and then take its time to select a cell that smells in the best condition - a fully provisioned drone cell just ready for sealing. Hope someone will confirm from direct observation if this is so. If it is, it implies the old reason for mites preferring drone cells was probably right - the longer period of pupation allows the mite time to produce more viable offspring. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:35:57 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Almond bloom in California Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, In reply to Kevin Gibbs who asked about the concentrations of adjuvants tested, these ranged from 0.1% to 1.0%, the highest of which were well above those used in the field. The concentrations I tested were those supplied to me by Elliot Chemicals Ltd. who were paying for the testing. The need for tests arose from some bee mortalities in the field which resulted in questions about possible insecticidal activity of adjuvants ('helpful auxilliaries'), and surfactants ('surface active agents'). Regards, Barry Donovan New Zealand. ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:09:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Weller recently mentioned screen floats for hive top feeders. I do not use screen floats but rather put a screened or galvanised iron cage around the entrance to keep the bees from drowning in the syrup. I have posted a picture of the feeders at: http://www3.telus.net/public/darn/feeders.jpg Best regards Donald Aitken --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:24:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Insurance In-Reply-To: <76.38199d33.2d69f650@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3D883FF5; boundary="=======2DB43D60=======" --=======2DB43D60======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3D883FF5; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Hi, >I was wondering what kind of insurance coverage those of you who do have it, >have on your bee operations? I have fire, theft, vandalism, bear damage, product and personal liability in a farm policy with Co-operative Insurance of Middlebury, Vermont. Mike St. Albans, Vermont --=======2DB43D60=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:15:21 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: drone cells and varroa mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would not natural selection favour those mites that had a preference for drone cells, as they would very quickly outnumber those that chose worker? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:34:50 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Donald & all > I do not use screen floats but rather put a screened or galvanised iron > cage around the entrance to keep the bees from drowning in the syrup. >I have posted a picture of the feeders at: > > http://www3.telus.net/public/darn/feeders.jpg A good, practical approach to reducing drowning and at the same time increasing the 'shoreline' available to the bees for taking the feed, but can you explain the reasons behind the positioning of the feeder station? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 02:08:49 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kevin Gibbs Subject: Re: Almond bloom in California MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Barry I think you have misunderstood my question, or I have misunderstood your reply. > In reply to Kevin Gibbs who asked about the concentrations of adjuvants > tested, these ranged from 0.1% to 1.0%, the highest of which were well > above those used in the field. I understand the concentration rate of the chemical mixed with water but my question is, what was the application rate? If a chemical is mixed at twice the concentration used in the field but applied at half the rate per hectare the application rate of chemical per square inch or per flower of per bee is the same. Kevin Gibbs :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:48:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Was: [BEE-L] Goble - Now Government subsidies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Jim for clearing that up. Here in Quebec we do actually have some aid from the provincial goverment. Last year 50% of the colonies died during the winter. Some say that this was forseen due to varroa resistance to fluvaniate and that the government did not apply early enough for the permit to use the replacement product, coumaphos. I thought that the details of the program had originally been in Tagalog and translated into French using one of those free translation programs. But the gist of the program is as follows:- the beekeeper assumes the first 20% of the loss, if he (she) lost less than 50% then he can claim 60% of the losses, if he lost more than 50% then he can claim 70% of the losses. Of these losses the government will pay 50% of the cost of a nuc based on last years prices. With a 50% loss of colonies in the province there are very few nucs available this year, and the price is not the same as last year! The beekeepers who make a claim must enroll in the Crop Insurance Program (now the government gets some of it's money back). The beekeepers are therefore going to order packages from Australia. Bees that instead of having a well earned respite after a hard summer of working in Australia will now be whisked of to Canada to work for another 6 months. It is now near the end of February and the beekeepers must order the packages, which are in short supply, and send a deposit. As of this date, not one beekeeper has received any of this aid even though all claims were submitted before the end of December. If it does not come soon it will be too late to help replace the 17,000 colonies that were lost. Maybe the U.S. missions to Mars could be used to send certain selected people to explain available aid programs to assist the wellbeing of the local forms of live. I am working on my list this morning. Peter > > l seemed to have missed something here. Can the person who > > originally wrote this please direct me to the person > > responsible for this subsidy? > > I read this a long time ago in a Canadian government document > containing a historical overview of the "border closure". > I don't recall the specifics of who, what, when, or where. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:45:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave: My hives are in groups of five on rails that are tilted slightly to the front so that moisture accumulating in the winter will run out. The tilt causes the syrup to run to the front as well. Putting the feeding station toward the front enables the bees to drain the syrup completely. Best regards Donald Aitken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cushman" > A good, practical approach to reducing drowning and at the same time > increasing the 'shoreline' available to the bees for taking the feed, but > can you explain the reasons behind the positioning of the feeder station? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:52:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anna Browder Subject: Re: help for novelist in boston area In-Reply-To: <001401c3f941$53e47f20$d9563f42@A15262.ecpm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:50:04 EST >From: Chris Wave >Subject: help for novelist in boston area > >I am submitting this on behalf of a novelist friend whose main character has >a few hives on a hobby farm outside of Boston. Any beekeepers in that area >that could suggest believable plants honeybees would visit? >What time of year? I live in Rhode Island, so the plants will be the >same. In the spring, I think trees probably provide a lot of >nectar-maple,linden, fruit trees such as apple, ornamental landscape >trees such as cherry and plum, then black locust, which is >wonderful; native and cultivated blueberry, same for raspberry and >blackberry; in fall, goldenrod and aster. >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:02:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anna Browder Subject: feeding pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" In Rhode Island, where I keep my one backyard hive, it's often in the 40's now and local beekeepers say that queens will be laying now. I would like to feed pollen to help my colony build up fast. Good idea? I can buy it from Brushy Mt., but I can also buy it from my local Whole Foods Market. Is there any reason, other than cost, which I will now check, why I shouldn't buy it in a food store? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:21:52 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <002001c3f965$f1d706c0$b7939ac2@haris8cjgnhodj> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 In message <002001c3f965$f1d706c0$b7939ac2@haris8cjgnhodj>, Roger White writes in reply to my: >>>The parallel weakening of varroa, recognised in France<< > >Is it possible for you to give more details of this interesting subject and >possible references. An email from a British worker with success in breeding grooming damage into hives bees, to me is as follows. There is an interesting report in ABJ, April 2003, page 319, item 8 by de Vaublane et al. In several parts of France feral populations of honeybee are now recovering from the initial impact of varroa. This is thought to result either from the presence of less harmful strains of varroa, or from an interaction (i.e. coevolution) of the bee strains with the mite strain. A full account is given. I have emailed Professor Otis about passing on to BEE-L a reply giving further information about this work. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:04:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bernard SAUBOT Subject: Insecticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, Stage victory for french beekeepers : after two years of investigations, = J GUARY, examining magistrate in a small town of southern France -Saint = Gaudens-, has decided last week to prosecute Bayer, owner of = Imidaclopride and former owner of Fipronil, and BASF, owner of Fipronil, = and to charge their Directors with offering for sale a poisonous stuff, = harmful to human and animal health, offering for sale a chemical = without legal authorization, and acting in collusion to destroy apiarian = livestock . BASF company is put on probation, and last but not least, the sale of = Regent TS, one of the commercial names of Fipronil insecticide, is = prohibited on the french market . The trial could happen in 2005 . 8 years of fight, men, and something looking like the first effective = results... Bernard :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:42:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Goble style inner covers >> bees build burr comb on top of the frames in the 3/4" hollow space of the shim. OF COURSE THE BEES WILL DO THAT, if there is not ENOUGH drawn comb super space available! Gosh, the bees are trying hard to tell the beekeeper that they need MORE super space to deposit their nectar, or they might swarm! You know a little burr comb is not all that bad. And it does not nessicarily mean there is not enough space. I like to see a little bur comb at the top of my supers. It tells me that the entire super is full drawn and fully filled with honey. It is more efficient use of time and equipment extracting full boxes/frames of honey. But it means that extra space is needed, so I add another super, helps me gauge the flow and supers needed. I never seem to have enough supers for my hives Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:02:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Blane White Subject: Re: feeding pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, Anna asks in part: "Is there any reason, other than cost, which I will now check, why I shouldn't buy it in a food store?" Not sure exactly what you are asking Anna but it appears that you are thinking of purchasing pollen to feed to your bees. From a disease standpoint that is not a good idea. Much better to feed pollen substitute that can be purchased from bee supply outlets. FWIW blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:03:20 -0800 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew Shepherd (Xerces Society)" Subject: France bans insecticide allegedly linked to bee deaths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable France bans insecticide allegedly linked to bee deaths The Associated Press; 2/23/04 Full article in MLive.com, at:= http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/business/index.ssf?/newsflash/get_story.ssf?= /cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?f0205_BC_Bees-InsecticideBan&&news&newsflash-fina= ncial France on Monday suspended sales of an insecticide that allegedly was= killing bees. Agriculture Minister Herve Gaymard said farmers who use= insecticides containing the chemical Fipronil would be able to exhaust= supplies on hand through the spring, but sales were ended Tuesday. The case emerged in 2001 when keepers noticed their bees were dying off in= unusually high numbers. A beekeepers association criticized the government= for not investigating their claims earlier. The sales suspension came as a judge in southwest France started legal= action against a subsidiary of German chemical giant Bayer AG, saying it= sold its Regent TS insecticide containing Fipronil without proper= approval. The judge told reporters he was shocked by the disregard for= bees. ______________________________________________________ Matthew Shepherd, Pollinator Conservation Program Director The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Boulevard, Portland, OR 97215, USA Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org ______________________________________________________ The Xerces Society is a nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting the diversity of life through the conservation of invertebrates. For information and membership details, see our website at www.xerces.org ______________________________________________________ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:06:08 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Insurance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Members of the British Bee Keepers' Association have third party and product liability insurance included in their subscription. Subs have risen this recently partly because the premiums have gone up following payouts (settled out of court I believe). People are on their own with fire and theft etc insurance. I believe the National Farmers' Union Mutual Insurance Co has an appropriate policy but don't know the details. I think it is expensive for the hobby beekeeper who will generally cover his own risks. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:47:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Martin Subject: Third year queens (was Raising queens) In-Reply-To: <200402211648.i1LGEeOr027218@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello James and all, Thank you for answering my questions. I do have a few more to ask. You mention an apiary with an average of 160# each year. I assume that also includes colonies with third year queens.(correct me if mistaken) >One static apiary with 160lb averages each year plus nuclei >made up from them. He can have 3 major nectar flows in at >least one Did all the colonies in this apiary survive the summer? The background of the question is: would a dead colony been robbed, raising the average by decreasing the total number of colonies, while the other colonies would have robbed the dead hives surpluses. Did any neighboring apiaries exist that lost colonies or had weak colonies? The bees in the 160# average apiary could have robbed the neighboring apiary decreasing his average and raising this one. >In this season, the best colonies had a head start on the >others, with around and in some cases, in excess of 50lb >before the end of spring in the supers, also >The colony I mentioned may have been marginally faster off >the mark and with the deep frames, had that many more foraging >bees. Would the above observation indicate an attribute of aggressiveness in the queen? Would this attribute in the workers incline them to push past the less aggressive guard bees in another apiary or colony? I understand some of these questions might not be known to you. But any help in answering them would be appreciated. Does anyone else have similar experiences in third year queens? My Italian queen is just going into her third year. I will be watching her closely. Noticed today the colony is slightly on the light side. They aren't taking the fondant/dry sugar mix like the buckfast beside her does. However this colony didn't take up dry sugar last year either. Tom Martin Shippensburg, Pa :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:12:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Drutchas Subject: GM Alfalfa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone out there heard or had experience with bees on GM Alfalfa. = I'm not sure this stuff has even been released yet but people are asking = me if my honey has any GM pollen in it. Thanks :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:10:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading George Irimie's excellent description of how to super hives with drawn comb, one person asked 'for those of us who do not have enough drawn comb, how do you recommend drawing foundation?" I am in possession of George's recommendations on how to draw foundation. With his permission, I am reproducing it below. While George lives in Maryland, and I live in upstate NY, my personal recommendations would be almost exactly the same as George's. The details George provides are important, but there are three overriding rules for hobbyists who live in areas without a major flow (most hobbyists). A major flow is one that lasts at least three weeks without interruption. Those rules are FEED, FEED, FEED. Your supers of drawn comb will last at least 5 years...a hobbyist should be more than willing to sacrifice one year of honey to get 3-4 or more supers of completely drawn comb per hive! George's comments: " wish I could do it in a few short words; but so many beekeepers just don't understand the very basics of bee BEHAVIOR, I have to use a LOT OF WORDS. Honey bees are not programmed to "PLAN AHEAD"; but they wait for a NEED for something before they will go into action. The ONLY PURPOSE for drawn comb (making foundation into comb) is a SPACE for the queen to lay an egg or a SPACE for foraging bees to deposit NECTAR or pollen; and bees are NOT GOING TO DRAW FOUNDATION unless there is a need for brood laying or storage space for NECTAR. Further, queen laying is greatly diminished in the absence of a NECTAR flow. Hence, one MUST understand that bees will NOT draw foundation (build comb) without some type of NECTAR flow. Without a natural NECTAR flow, we beekeepers can provide an ARTIFICIAL nectar flow by feeding 1:1 ratio of sugar syrup, which surely is NOT AS GOOD as a real nectar flow, but works to some extent. When trying to get foundation drawn into drawn comb, you MUST observe 4 cardinal principles: 1.) there MUST BE a nectar flow present or at least an artificial nectar of 1:1 sugar syrup, 2.) there MUST be 10 (TEN) frames in the super, never 9 or 8, and 3.) the frames MUST BE TIGHTLY PACKED TOGETHER with NO space between the end bars; and lastly 4.) only ONE super of foundation at a time can be installed to be drawn, and the 2nd super of foundation can NOT be installed until the 1st super is about 75% drawn and FILLED WITH SOMETHING, be it brood, pollen, or nectar. Obviously, the same rules apply for the 3rd super of foundation, where you MUST wait until the frames in the 2nd super are drawn and filled with something. I'll give you an example: In Maryland, our ONLY honey flow is EARLY and SHORT, starting about April 15th and ending by June 15th.. If I am short on frames of DRAWN comb and have to use foundation (which is a pain in my fanny), I definitely like to use queen excluders to keep the queen out of my honey, but I put a super of foundation on the colony about April 1st WITH NO QUEEN EXCLUDER UNDER IT, and let the bees either put nectar in it or the queen to lay eggs in it. This becomes a BAIT super because the bees just won't leave it alone in order to either RIPEN the nectar into honey or FEED THE BROOD. Having this BAIT super present, sometime about April 15th, I place a QUEEN EXCLUDER under this BAIT super and add my 2nd super of foundation. Every 4-5 days, I sneak a look at the work in that 2nd super, and when I find it is about 66% or 75% filled with nectar, I move the outside frames into the center and the center frames to the outside, and install the 3rd super of foundation; and repeat for the 4th and 5th supers if there is a strong enough nectar flow. I will be VERY POSITIVE in saying this: I don't care WHERE you are or WHAT race of bees you have, there is NO way to get foundation drawn without a NECTAR flow or feeding an artificial nectar like 1:1 sugar syrup. Further, there is NO WAY to get frames of foundation drawn PROPERLY unless the frames are very tightly pushed together 10/super, and it MUST be done just one super at a time. Sure, it is LABOR INTENSIVE, but if you try to do any other way, you will wind up in failure, and have to finally do it as I have described. It is the BEE'S WAY OF DOING THINGS, not mine. I hope I have helped. George Imirie, retired scientist Beginning my 72nd year as a beekeeper Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: How to draw foundation In-Reply-To: <007e01c3faf0$b9b50850$a9e9d518@newdell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-619BFDA; boundary="=======1F3626E0=======" --=======1F3626E0======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-619BFDA; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > one person asked 'for those of us who do not have enough >drawn comb, how do you recommend drawing foundation?" When I want more drawn combs, I proceed a little differently than George and Lloyd. I don't put the super with 10 frames of foundation first. The first supers to go on...before the flow starts...are supers of drawn comb...9 per super. Once the flow is on, and the bees are filling the supers well, I add the new super with 10 frames of foundation....under the full supers. Since the colonies I add foundation to are the strongest colonies...their filling their supers...and it is during a good flow...their filling their supers...I almost always get ten nice combs. I never use queen excluders. I do the same for deep foundation. For deeps, first year I extract the honey, second year the comb goes in a broodnest. Mike --=======1F3626E0=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:37:49 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Barrett Subject: Timetable for The Irish Beekeeping Course at Gormanston, Ireland - July 2004 Comments: To: irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.co.uk Comments: cc: norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, FloridaBeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, akbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, NZBkprs@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello All The detailed timetable for the Gormanston Beekeeping Course at Gormanston, Ireland from Monday July 26 to Saturday July 31 2004 is now posted on the web site of the Federation of Irish Beekeeping Associations at www.irishbeekeeping.ie Just click on 'Click Here To Access the Site', then click on 'Gormanston'Beekeeping Course' and follow the prompts. This course bids fair to be the best ever, with the most varied and informative set of lectures ever presented. Many beekeepers - an increasing number from outside Ireland - return to Gormanston year after year. And of course if you have not planned to attend Gormanston, you may consider it worth the journey when you have perused the time table and see how little it costs. Gormanston is quite close to Dublin Airport which serves the entire world. The Federation arranges a courtesy coach to transfer visitors from Dublin Airport to Gormanston. And those beekeepers who reside in Great Britain, and who may wish to bring a car to fit in a tour of some of the Irish countryside, can take a ferry to Dublin from Holyhead in Wales and drive to Gormanston - about a one hour journey on a modern motorway. See you there! Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:58:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George, James, Dave, etc: I made a split yesterday, and, of course, I didn't find the queen and since it was only 60 degrees, I didn't want to keep the hive open for so long. I went back in the evening and the one I thought had the queen, where I moved the capped brood is now audibly buzzing. I'm guessing that that means it is queenless???? Please help me out here. Kathy Cox, Bloomfield Bees and Bouquets Northern California, Italian, 13 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:23:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/24/2004 8:18:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, Lloyd@ROSSROUNDS.COM writes: A major flow is one that lasts at least three weeks without interruption. How do the bees decide who's making making comb and who's making royal jelly? Does one take a back seat to the other? Kathy Cox, Bloomfield Bees and Bouquets Northern California, Italian, 13 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:22:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: How to draw foundation In-Reply-To: <129.3bb3f40f.2d6cf8ba@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7F1D66E; boundary="=======44A620F4=======" --=======44A620F4======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7F1D66E; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Kathy said: >I made a split yesterday, and, of course, I didn't find the queen >the one I thought had the queen, is now audibly buzzing. >I'm guessing that that means it is queenless???? Please help me out here. Too bad you didn't use an excluder to make the nuc: Remove combs you want for the nuc...shake all bee back into parent. Replace removed combs with empty...push remaining brood to the center first. Place excluder on parent, and empty body on excluder. Place combs for nuc in center of empty body, and fill with empty comb, and cover. Remove nuc next morning, and place on new stand, give laying queen...or cell. Queen remains in parent, and bees populate nuc the way THEY want. You could recombine them...it's only been a day. Or you could find the queen. 60 F really isn't too cold to tear the hive apart. Mike --=======44A620F4=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:41:08 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Almond bloom in California Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All Kevin Gibbs asked what the application rate was of adjuvants tested on honey bees. For topical tests, 1 microlitre was applied to the thorax of each bee, and for oral tests, 200 mls were dispersed in 3 mls of 50/50 sugar/water vol/vol/ and 6 ml of this was supplied per feeding tube for each group of 10 bees, and the volume consumed was noted. Of course the big unanswered question is how these quantities may relate to amounts that foraging bees may encounter in the field. While it is probably quite unlikely that bees would feed upon droplets that might accumulate on crops, possibly a bee flying through a mist of fine droplets as a spray was being applied, may accumulate quite a number? But then fine droplets might be held up on the hairs of a bee and so may not reach the cuticle. So as I said previously although the laboratory tests showed that under the test conditions the materials were not harmful to bees, we don't know how this relates to field conditions. What can be said is that at higher concentrations and volumes than a bee might reasonably be expected to encounter in the field, assuming label directions are followed, the adjuvants were non-toxic to bees. I hope this helps. Regards, Barry Donovan New Zealand. ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:49:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: Re: GM Alfalfa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only GM Alfalfa I know of is AC Grazeland. It's a non-bloating alfalfa. Well, I should say a low bloating alfalfa. Haven't used it, but am seriously considering planting some in a pasture near my bees for cattle grazing. Guess I don't see a problem with it. GM plants have been around forever! Every time you eat a tomato, you're eating some. Tomatoes were modified to allow for mechanical picking many many years ago. Virtually everything you eat these days has been modified in some fashion. (West Texas) Mark ----- Original Message ----- Has anyone out there heard or had experience with bees on GM Alfalfa. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:25:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 22 Feb 2004 to 23 Feb 2004 (#2004-55) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Regarding drone cells and varroa mites. It may be of interest to point out a bit of the bee/mite biology interaction in this thread. Varroa mites that surface do so riding on newly born bees. These are the bees capable of producing royal jelly and the ones whose duty is to feed larvae. Normally, we see phoretic mites on nurse bees and ocassionally, on worker bees, especially in heavily infested hives in late summer. Mites do become dislodged from their feeding hold on bees but these mites climb back on their hosts readily. The reason why we may see mites "crawling around" on the surface of the combs may be due to overwhelming populations of mites which excite the bee´s hygienic behavior and cause bees to groom mites off. While it may be possible, I have never seen mites crawl into cells, for mites to enter cells, it is definitely certain that they are transferred around by nurse bees in their multiple feeding visits to developing larvae. The fact that developing larvae e! xude chemical attractants is valid, however, these attractants may very well be intended for the purpose of attracting nurse bees. In my humbe opinion, the mites just take advantage of the situation on hand. Best regards and God bless.Dr Rodriguez __________________________________________________________________Introducing the New Netscape Internet Service. Only $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:28:36 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kathy, Recombine everything, wait a day or two until warmer weather, 65°-70°, and start over. FIRST, using little or no smoke, find the queen, and transfer her and the frame she is on into an empty hive body. Then, no longer worried about the queen, move your frames and bees into the split box, put replacement frames back into the parent colony, and then put the frame with the queen back in the parent colony. You did not say that you had a new queen just waiting to be installed in the split. I hope you are not bent on letting the split raise a new queen on its own. If so, you are not diversifying the genetics of your bees, and there is a strong chance that a decent queen will NOT be produced, and further this split will be in bad shape before any new progeny is produced. You would be SO MUCH BETTER OFF to spend $10-$12 and buy a new queen from some local California queen breeder. I am much aware that some readers are going to DISAGREE with me, and I don't give a damn; but allowing your bees to raise a new queen for a split rather than furnishing a new queen 24 hours after the split is about as archaic as your grandmother's bustle, or the Wright Brothers flight at Kitty Hawk, or Henry Fords Model T. I hope I have helped George Imirie, retired scientist Certified Master Beekeeper :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:59:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith Subject: Re: GM Alfalfa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Has anyone out there heard or had experience with bees >on GM Alfalfa. I'm not sure this stuff has even been >released yet but people are asking me if my honey has >any GM pollen in it. Thanks Rick, So far the best I have heard is release in 2005, and I refer to Roundup Ready alfalfa. I am somewhat skeptical due to the claims from Monsanto that the foreign (Japanese) market must accept this GM product prior to release--and I don't see that happening just yet Jim Smith :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:34:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: # of drones in hive. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend wants to do a critique on 'The Da Vinci Code," a current best seller. In it the dialogue goes: "Ever study the relationship between females and males in a honeybee community?" "Sure. The female bees always outnumber the male bees." "Correct. And did you know that if you divide the number of female bees by the number of male bees in any beehive in the world, you always get the same number?" "you do?" "Yup. Phi" (DVC Page 94) ("Phi" is presented to be "The Golden Ratio" or the "Divine Mean" an irrational number approximately equal to 1.618) Gentlemen, We cannot let this go unchallenged. The catch is, we need quotable sources on the truth. Got Sources? Thanks. Dickm :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:01:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gilles and Lee-Ann Organization: Turtle River Apiaries Subject: Re: GM Alfalfa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I refer to Roundup Ready alfalfa. The unmodified alfalfa is quite resistant to glyphosate (round-up) already. An alfalfa seed grower in my area told me how he used round-up to control weeds in his crop. The dose had to be diluted somewhat. Alfalfa could almost be classified as a weed just like sweet clover, which is great for bees. Gilles :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:31:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: # of drones in hive. "Gentlemen, We cannot let this go unchallenged." I would say the burden of proof is on the one making bizzare statements ;-) Search for "Drone laying hives" Or "Early Spring buildup" or "Ripping the wings off useless eaters". Regards :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:12:17 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: # of drones in hive. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all The golden mean refers to the numbers of parents of workers and drones not the numbers of actual insects Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:06:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Seiler Apiaries Subject: Re: # of drones in hive. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have not read the DaVinci code, and that makes it hard to fit two or three sentences into context. One thing I do know is that the author is obviously not a beekeeper. However, on average there may be some truth to his equation. I always find it funny that some people, such as this author, are trying to quantify, pigeon-hole, and formularize all creation under the sun. Sure, we need to have structure and order of some kind to make sense of the world, but if it is overdone and oversimplified, it becomes pretty well useless. The late Richard Taylor (contributor to Bee Culture) had it right with this quote: "If you go through life with a preconceived notion of what you are going to find, then you will miss everything that is novel and wonderful." My suggestion is to find all that is novel and wonderful, appreciate it, and let others know about it in the best way we can. Get out, talk honey and bees. People listen. Best Regards Frank Seiler http://www.seilerbees.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Vaughan" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 07:31 Subject: Re: [BEE-L] # of drones in hive. > "Gentlemen, We cannot let this go unchallenged." > > I would say the burden of proof is on the one making bizzare statements ;-) > > Search for "Drone laying hives" Or "Early Spring buildup" or "Ripping the > wings off useless eaters". > > Regards > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:50:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: # of drones in hive. In-Reply-To: <200402251531.i1PCTag9003774@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Recently, Fine Woodworking invoked the Golden Mean for designing furniture. The examples seemed ok, and some rule of thumb for proportion seems useful, particularly for those of us who are artistically challenged. But, I noticed the many caveats about adjusting for the realities of available wood, etc. I then started examining high-end furniture in catalogues, etc. Yep, the proportions of some fit the magic ratio, but just as many didn't. I suspect that if you look for data to support a preconceived notion, you'll find it, especially if you toss in enough exceptions, rule bending, etc. Almost 30 yrs ago, there was a classic stats paper done on Diurnal Rhythms of Unicorns. The author (and I've forgotten the name), started by assigning random numbers to unicorn activities (sleeping, playing, eating, etc.). He then used a random number generator (computer) to simulate the daily activities of his mythical group of unicorns. He next proceeded to look for activity patterns in this random block of numbers. Sure enough, with enough curve fitting, averaging, seat of the pants assumptions, all of which were carefully justified, he produced a beautiful set of curves describing what the unicorns were doing at different times of the day. As I remember, they slept a lot during the daylight hours. His point, be careful of finding shopping for statistical justifications until you get the answer that you want. Now, on another subject -- semantics, and a few of my pet peeves: methodologies -- methods is fine, you don't need to add the -ology. If you disagree, tell me what is the difference between methods and methodologies? hive versus colonies -- the hive is the box, the colony is the population of bees, hopefully in the box. Flying hives is a scary thought, and I doubt that a hive lays anything. Also, as an animal behaviorist, I was taught not to anthropomorphize animal behavior, but in bee literature, we have queens and drones and workers, nurse bees, a division of labor, etc. Don't think were going to change our jargon at this late date, but it is a contradiction. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:18:40 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Shane Gray Subject: Re: How to draw Foundation In-Reply-To: <200402250502.i1P4tjNN025638@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BEE-L Digest - 23 Feb 2004 to 24 Feb 2004 (#2004-56)Hi There, As a new beekeeper, and therefore avid 'lurker' on this list, I found the discussion on drawing comb very interesting and informative. My only question is with regards to the 1:1 sugar syrup that George Imrie recommends. Here in Australia most of the advice I have received is to feed a 1:2 sugar syrup (i.e., 1 part sugar), in small quantities constantly available, to simulate a nectar flow. Do any more experienced beekeepers believe that it would be more beneficial to use a more concentrated sugar syrup, or would the basic principles still hold and much of a muchness either way? Clear Skies and Calm Seas, S. Gray Shane Gray E-mail: Shane.R.Gray@bigpond.com To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded. - Ralph Waldo Emerson :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:12:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: How to draw Foundation I never bothered to water down the corn surip that I feed while drawing foundation. Perhaps a thinner surip would work better? I doubt it. My bees work just as hard while I feed them, after the dandilion flow ends Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:24:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith Subject: Re: GM Alfalfa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alfalfa and Roundup. Bear in mind that the legal use is for emergency weed control, and I have used it as such, seen good weed control and great plant control--sometimes with the same rate in the same field (plants include the alfalfa by the way). At any rate, I wouldn't be depending upon it. The next question is how that plants resistance effects the pollen in a naturally roundup (glyphosate) resistant plant--Hmmm? At any rate, I happen to like star thisthle honey best but guess what kind of a noxious thing it is! Jim Smith :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:16:12 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How to draw Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am glad you mentioned a 1:2 ratio of sugar to water syrup Frankly, I think that is equal or BETTER than 1:1 ratio for queen stimulation. The reason I don't mention it to casual readers is these "not so careful people" tend to confuse it with 2:1 ratio. Hence, I'll "set the record straight": For queen stimulation to lay, I think a 1 Sugar to 2 water, 1:2 ratio is best For spring feeding, I think 1 Sugar to 1 water, 1:1 ratio is best For fall feeding, the ONLY proper feed is 2 sugar o 1 water, 2:1 ratio George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:50:15 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Lloyd Spear" 'there are three overriding rules for hobbyists who live in > areas without a major flow (most hobbyists). . Those rules are FEED, FEED, > FEED. ...a hobbyist should be more than willing to sacrifice one year of honey to get 3-4 or > more supers of completely drawn comb per hive!' Lloyd was commenting on the advice 'there is NO way to get foundation drawn without a NECTAR > flow or feeding an artificial nectar like 1:1 sugar syrup' I find it very disheartening - after all the discussion we have had on sugar honey - that the advice to beginners to feed sugar syrup in order to get supers drawn is still trotted out without an attached warning that your entire crop that year will not be fit for anything than feeding to pigs (or extracting and storing for use as winter feed, which is a lot of work), because if sugar is fed when supers are on, the honey in them must be adulterated with sugar honey to an extent - possible to a very high proportion if u FEED, FEED, FEED. You can eat it yourself certainly, if u like a sweet tasteless paste, but u must not sell it at any price , and very definitely u must not let anyone get the idea that this stuff is what the best beekeepers sell to the public for 12 times the cost of sugar . Producing honey of high quality is not difficult - but it does require a little patience. To draw supers of foundation, u put them on a little ahead of whatever flow u have, and the bees draw out what they need to store the surplus. Yes, they use some nectar to draw comb, and wax makers are delayed in turning to foraging, so u get less honey than if u have drawn comb available, that is natural. Next year u have drawn supers and can get more. That is beekeeping. IMHO, FEEDING FEEDING FEEDING is not true beekeeping - it relates to beekeeping somehow like rearing battery chickens relates to free-range. It is exploiting an animal by forcing it to act unnaturally in order to make profits thru mass production of an inferior product. What beekeepers do is of course there own decision. The general problem, as said before, is that ALL beekeepers share ownership of the term 'honey'. If a few bring down the public's appreciation of what is 'quality honey' we all potentially suffer. Beekeepers are far more of a danger to beekeeping long term than mites, in my opinion. So my earnest advice on drawing supers of foundation is NEVER EVER FEED SUGAR WHEN SUPERS ARE ON. NEVER STRIP SO MUCH HONEY FROM HIVES THAT THEY INEVITABLY STARVE AND THEN CLAIM EXCUSE TO FEED SUGAR - QUALITY HONEY PRODUCTION IS ABOUT HARVESTING ONLY THE TRUE SURPLUS. The loss of honey due to bees drawing comb is often exaggerated. Provided thick foundation is provided, the amount of extra wax needed to draw out the cell walls is very small. Shave off a comb, weigh the wax, multiply by say 7 times to get the honey equivalent. Not much. Yes, the wax makers are not foraging - but they will later. So far as I know, producing wax does not reduce the length of the subsequent foraging period of each individual bee. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:24:09 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: How to draw Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re-reading my last post I find I did not make the point strongly enough. ADVICE TO FEED SUGAR WHEN SUPERS ARE ON IS THE GREATEST DANGER FACING BEEKEEPING. Why? Because, as said, beekeeping only makes sense if honey can be sold at many many times the price of sugar. If the public ever associates the two - they will not buy honey at such a differential. Where is the danger the public will start to associate honey with sugar? >From food writers. In UK, food articles are in every newspaper and Sunday newspapers often have whole supplementart magazines on food. Why would a food writer question honey? Because they have the sort of friends who take up beekeeping for fun. If one visits a new beekeeper and is innocently told that beekeepers are advised to FEED FEED FEED sugar to draw new supers - and 'here, I got lot's of honey my first year, taste some!' - then we could find honey sales slumping. Golden syrup, maple syrup, are much cheaper. How do we unite to stamp out this irresponsible advice? If it means that if u live in an area with insufficient forage u shoud give up idea of keeping bees, isn't that just something to accept? In better areas, if u cannot draw sections without feeding, should you not stick to extracted honey? HOW HOW HOW can we get this message across - before it is too late? Food writers are potentially very good friends to beekeeping. The worries with obesity are growing. Substituting honey for sugar reduces your calorie intake becasuse honey is sweeter than sugar so u use less. We could gain twice - lower calories, more concern on eating wholesome natural foods. Less go for the plusses - but guard more strongly against the downsides that could follow more foodie attention on honey. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:37:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: How to draw foundation In-Reply-To: <003a01c3fc56$6a12a660$0191bc3e@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-428E5A88; boundary="=======3F477CFB=======" --=======3F477CFB======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-428E5A88; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > To draw supers of foundation, u put them on a little ahead >of whatever flow u have, and the bees draw out what they need to store the >surplus. Robin...I agree with you that we should not feed our colonies when supers are on, and should let nectar flows be the source...although I would if trying to get brood combs drawn...and all I had was foundation. But, I have had problems with adding foundation "before" the flow starts. If foundation is put on a hive, with no flow, the bees often chew the foundation down to the wires, ruining it for future use. I could see this happening if you give them foundation before the flow starts...then the flow is weak or non-existent...as sometimes happens...and the foundation, the money you spent on it, and all the work to install it in the frames...is lost. Mike --=======3F477CFB=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:53:45 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: # of drones in hive Dave said: > The golden mean refers to the numbers of parents of > workers and drones not the numbers of actual insects And how does even this calculation leave one with Phi? x / y ~ 1.618...? Maybe I need more coffee, I don't get it. Jerry said: > methodologies -- methods is fine, you don't need to add the -ology. > If you disagree, tell me what is the difference between methods > and methodologies? OK, I'll bite. Methodology ----------- My "methodology" is that there is a "method to my madness". :) The suffix "ology" comes from the greek "logos", meaning "the logic of". When you add "ology" to "method" you are then speaking about the underlying logic behind a complex schema that would include your set of methods as a whole. ("Biology" is a better example of an "ology", where we speak of the field of study or the state of knowledge as a whole.) So, "methodology", even though misused and overused as puffery far too often, by people who are merely speaking of "methods" DOES have a specific proper meaning and use. Method ------ My "method" is that "I type at 120 wpm, and click 'send'". Other good examples of "method" are how one opens a hive, using a survey of beekeepers to gather data rather than looking at all their hives yourself, and the order of removal of the bolts on a Volvo timing-chain cover. These are specific (and more minor) techniques. Methods are often subject to choice, and none of the choices you make as to "method" imply that you have changed your methodology in the slightest. So, to make it perfectly clear, "Methodists use various methods to verify that their methodology is valid". :) > Hive versus colonies - the hive is the box, the colony is the population... Well, but if my hives became Africanized, the entire TOWN would flee. :) (The same problem exists when speaking of town, city, county, state... "Poor choices" of collective nouns groups of people are misused much more often than for bees. If it is any comfort, I still have a t-shirt, over 20 years old that says "Data Is!", while my wife has a matching t-shirt that says "Data Are!". She is technically correct in a strict "I'll beat you over the head with the 20-Volume Oxford English Dictionary" sense, but I consider "data" to be a collective noun, since a single data point would be a "datum". > in bee literature, we have queens and drones and > workers, nurse bees... What other choice of terms do we have? jim (Not what he used to be, not that he used to be much) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:52:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: How to draw Foundation In-Reply-To: <004401c3fc5b$54eabfc0$0191bc3e@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-428E5A88; boundary="=======6A17939=======" --=======6A17939======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-428E5A88; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >How do we unite to stamp out this irresponsible advice? By posting your opinions on places like this list. maple syrup, are much cheaper. Robin...I don't know where you get your information. I live in Vermont...a major producer of Maple Syrup. I know the industry pretty well...I used to tap 5000 at one time, and sold my product all over the Northeast States, to natural food stores. I have never seen Maple Syrup be cheaper than honey. The 2003 Maple crop sold for about $2.00/pound in the barrel for Fancy grade...the lightest color. There are cheaper "maple" syrups on the market...Log Cabin, Aunt Jemima, etc, etc...but that is "sugar maple." :-) Kinda like your "sugar honey." Guess which one sells best...yep, more "sugar maple" is sold than real "Maple Syrup." Mike --=======6A17939=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:14:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: How to draw Foundation In-Reply-To: <1ed.19f9f8e4.2d6ef73c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Hence, I'll "set the record straight": > > For queen stimulation to lay, I think a 1 Sugar to 2 > water, 1:2 ratio is best > For spring feeding, I think 1 Sugar to 1 water, 1:1 > ratio is best > For fall feeding, the ONLY proper feed is 2 sugar o > 1 water, 2:1 ratio > May I ask you to explain, to beginners like me, why those ratios ? What is the logic leading to those conclusions ? Hervé Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Dialoguez en direct avec vos amis grâce à Yahoo! Messenger !Téléchargez Yahoo! Messenger sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:01:03 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jeff Cook Subject: Sucrocide I was unable to treat my hives last fall and so definitely need to do so this spring. I have decided to try Dadant's Sucrocide (Sucrose Octanoate Esters). Can anyone tell me how long after the final application of this product that I must wait before I can super a hive? I can't seem to find this information anywhere. Thanks, JC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:57:47 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: # of drones in hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim & all > And how does even this calculation leave one with Phi? > x / y ~ 1.618...? The way I understand it... The golden mean 'tends to' 1.6180 1/1 = 1 2/1 = 2 3/2 = 1.5 5/3 = 1.6666... 8/5 = 1.6 13/8 = 1.625 21/13 = 1.61538... 34/21 = 1.61904... and so on, with each addition coming ever closer to multiplying by some as-yet-undetermined number. The number that this ratio is oscillating around is phi (1.6180339887499...). In the case of large numbers of generations having already passed then the number of parents in the family tree of drones and the number of parents in the family tree of the workers in that colony is Phi because drones are one step back in the sequence due to not having a father. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:00:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anna Browder Subject: Re: Sucrocide In-Reply-To: <022620041501.23475.4f18@att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Have you tried calling Dadant? I've always found them very helpful over the phone. Anna :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:03:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anna Browder Subject: Re: How to draw Foundation In-Reply-To: <200402260112.i1PMHHZf027306@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" If you want to feed surplus honey to bees, can you dilute it and feed it in an inverted jar just as you feed sugar syrup? What dilution? Anna :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:37:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ACS Subject: Bees in the News: (Fresno Bee) - Almond Growers Scramble MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here's an interesting article picked up by the Associated Press(AP)concerning the demand for honey-bees in California. Paul Harvey will run the story in his radio broadcast today (Feb 26, 2004 @ 11:40am on KOA 850-AM in Colorado- your station?). The article hits on increasing almond pollination rates from mites/fire/honey prices/increased demand, with a variety of reliable bee-info sources in tow. "Almond growers scramble for pollinating honey bees" By ANNA OBERTHUR, Associated Press Writer (Updated Tuesday, February 24, 2004, 4:20 PM) http://www.fresnobee.com/state_wire/story/8186257p-9037627c.html & another story from 2/16/2004 - "Growers Abuzz For Bees" by Robert Rodriguez - Fresno Bee covering the current state of almond pollination in California: http://www.fresnobee.com/business/story/8128308p-8982486c.html --------------- Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:20:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 22 Feb 2004 to 23 Feb 2004 (#2004-55) >While it may be possible, I have never seen mites crawl into cells I have. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:05:36 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, Why not use plastic foundation like Dadant's Plasticell? Wax foundation, except for comb honey, is a thing of the past. This is my 72nd year of beekeeping, and I converted to Plasticell 25 years ago; and wish it was available when I started in 1933. George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:38:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Al B Subject: Looking for Bees For Sale in Ontario In-Reply-To: <156.2e6d10c3.2d6be160@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am looking for single or double deep hives for sale this spring anywhere in Ontario. Allen Banks Sault Ste Marie, Ontario :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:49:25 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Michael Palmer" if you give them foundation before the flow starts...then the > flow is weak or non-existent...as sometimes happens...and the foundation, > the money you spent on it, and all the work to install it in the > frames...is lost.' Yes, to an extent. You put on a super ahead of need, just, as it is important not to give extra space too late - or bees will swarm. And yes, if no flow follows, a super of foundation may get damaged. The weather is always a risk in any form of food production. But let's assess the loss. In UK, a super takes 10 shalow frames containing 1 lb of foundation. Provided u return wax to the makers, the foundation costs £0.90 per 10 sheets (more or less, depending who u go to). In comparison, one jar of honey sells at £3. So cost or having damaged foundation re-cast is not a large factor. Time is. Conventional UK frames with removable top wedges and split bottom bars are ridiculously slow - a Victorian hangover. U can get two piece plastic frames though, that u prise apart, lay in a sheet of unwired foundation, press together again. Much quicker. US beekeepers lay foundation into permanently wired frames and electrically embed so I am told - which also sounds quick. Neither cost nor time justifies feeding sugar when supers are on, with consequent adulteration of the crop, in my opinion. What do all the lurkers feel? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:07:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: How to draw foundation In-Reply-To: <9f.44426d62.2d6fab90@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-26883DFE; boundary="=======262FE44=======" --=======262FE44======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-26883DFE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Why not use plastic foundation like Dadant's Plasticell? >Wax foundation, except for comb honey, is a thing of the past. > George Imirie Hey George, good to hear from you again. I do use plastic waxed foundation in my new medium supers, and find it suitable. It is easy to install, and I don't have to do any wiring. In some cases, I still like to use wax foundation...namely new frames going in 4 frame nucs, mini-nucs, and breeder boxes. Weaker colonies like these draw wax foundation out more quickly, and evenly than they do plastic. In any event, I would still follow the same plan when supering with any type foundation. Wait for the flow. By putting the super of foundation on after the bees are already working in a super, or two, seems to work best here. We have a much longer flow than you do, so waiting until the first supers are being filled well doesn't necessarily mean that we're near the end of the flow. Our flows continue well into September some years. We don't really need expensive feeding, to get the foundation drawn out. Thanks for the tip, George. I always welcome your advice. Mike...Ahh Vermont...the land of milk and honey :-) --=======262FE44=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:31:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Seiler Apiaries Subject: Re: Sucrocide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sucrose Octanoate (Sucrocide) is a foodgrade product without the usual pesticide restrictions. Dr. Steve Sheppard developed the use of this product at Washington Stae University. His information, as well as EPA registration can be found at http://apis.wsu.edu/oldapinotes/apinotes0203.html I'm not sure why it says February 03 -- should be 04, oh well. For some pictures of it being applied, you can go to www.inlandbeemail.com and click on "view all news." and scroll down to the WSU Field Day. The beauty of the sugar ester is that it is not a toxin that can develop resistance. It is applied 3 times at 1 week intervals so as to get the mites that are in the capped cells during the first application. The product works by impairing the breathing of the mite and by dissolving it's waxy coating, dessicating it. While a highly effective method, it is very labor intensive, and is a challenge to use for commercial beekeepers. Best Regards Frank Seiler www.seilerbees.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Cook" To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 07:01 Subject: [BEE-L] Sucrocide > I was unable to treat my hives last fall and so definitely need to do so this spring. I have decided to try Dadant's Sucrocide (Sucrose Octanoate Esters). Can anyone tell me how long after the final application of this product that I must wait before I can super a hive? I can't seem to find this information anywhere. > > Thanks, > JC > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:38:54 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Seiler Apiaries Subject: Re: How to draw Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Probably--I do not know at what dilution, but I have fed honey back to bees in a hive top feeder as is. I friend of mine also puts his burr and bridge comb into a shallow hive top feeder on top of the colony, comes back a day later and takes way the pristinely cleaned wax. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anna Browder" To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 08:03 Subject: Re: [BEE-L] How to draw Foundation > If you want to feed surplus honey to bees, can you dilute it and feed > it in an inverted jar just as you feed sugar syrup? What dilution? > Anna > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:51:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: How to draw foundation >>'there is NO way to get foundation drawn without a NECTAR > flow or feeding an artificial nectar like 1:1 sugar syrup' I dont agree. I draw hundreds of frames every year with corn surip before the nectar flow. But you are right in one aspect, a strong nectar flow draws the most uniform foundation... Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:48:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian, What exactly do you mean by the term "corn syrup"? If you are referring to ISOMERIZED corn syrup, commonly called "high fructose corn syrup", which is synthesized from starch, or even just plain "old corn syrup", you are correct that this aids bees in drawing foundation. However, both of these products are known to contain harmful non-digestible products for a bee and can cause sickness and/or death. Ian Said: I don't agree. I draw hundreds of frames every year with corn surip before the nectar flow. And I replied; Natural nectar, regardless of the source, excepting its water content is about 98% SUCROSE (same as table sugar). Hence, when bees eat it and break it down into the 2 simple sugars of glucose and fructose that comprise honey, there is not any "foreign" material to make bees sick. Back to your comments, as well as mine, feeding sugar is a valuable tool for beekeepers to stimulate queen laying, as well as helping a colony survive in case of a honey shortage. George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:08:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Almond Bloom In California Updates The following is published in USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2004-02-26-bees-almonds_x.htm The following is a link to Blue Diamond(R)Growers which will lead to all three almond growing regions of California as well as other aspects of Bluie Diamond's site: http://bluediamond.com/growers/field/index.cfm Regards, Chuck Norton Reidsville, NC Where the red maple has been in bloom for just 4 days now and 4 to 7 inches of snow is on the way) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:36:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: How to draw foundation In-Reply-To: <1ca.1ab300c3.2d7017f5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-72EC2D04; boundary="=======382417C0=======" --=======382417C0======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-72EC2D04; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > If you are referring to ISOMERIZED corn syrup, commonly called "high > fructose >corn syrup", which is synthesized from starch, these products are known >to contain harmful non-digestible >products for a bee and can cause sickness and/or death. > George Imirie George...Have you got a link to any studies that show HFCS is harmful to bees, and can cause sickness or death? I would be interested in reading that, as I feed tons of HFCS each fall to colonies that don't have quite enough to make it 'till spring. I believe there are two production methods for this sugar...acid, and enzyme. I've heard the acid produced HFCS is deadly, while the enzyme produced is ok. The enzymes produced by a bacteria convert corn starch into sugar...Fructose (55%) and Dextrose (45%). I have always used the enzyme produced HFCS. Mike --=======382417C0=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:06:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List, My interpretation of this thread was not of producing a honey crop from supplemental feed. But of preparing your new supers for any honey flow which you would have. Since every area is different it would be up to the individual beekeeper to understand what flow they have, when it happens and how much drawn comb they will need to capture what ever amount of natural honey the bees are able to produce. Since this thread only seems to apply to someone just starting out with foundation only I'm not sure why we are off discussing adulterated honey production and supplemental feeding under the same thread. These are both different topics. Kent Stienburg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:17:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Sucrocide In-Reply-To: <200402270501.i1R41vQp027176@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Cook wrote: Can anyone tell me how long after the final application of this product that I must wait before I can super a hive? I can't seem to find this information anywhere. Jeff, I am no a chemist, but have majored in biology with attendant chemistry courses. My understanding of sucrose octanoate is that it is an ester of sucrose (sugar) and that it is comprised of combination of sucrose (sugar) and fatty acids. As such, when the bees clean it off of themselves and attendant equipment, the esters are turned into sugars and food grade fatty acids, ergo, there should be very little delay between the time the treatment is applied and supers are added. As previously mentioned however, Dadant should have a ready reply to the question and when we get a response from Dadant, it would be beneficial to all of us to have that response published on BEE-L. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:45:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mod Erator Subject: WAS[BEE-L] How to draw now HFCS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by keating@DESTINATION.CA to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=691EC41E) (71 lines) ------------------- From: "Peter John Keating" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040227072705.00b64398@pop.together.net> Subject: WAS[BEE-L] How to draw now HFCS Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:27:42 -0500 Mike is right here. This has most likely been discussed before on BEE-L. One year here in Quebec the Federation offered HFCS as the price of sugar was high. It was the enzyme produced product. We were advised to cut it with 10% water. Not sure why, but most likely to be able to pump the stuff. I feed in barrels and just gravity fill them in the yard from tanks on the truck (totes). The first barrel I added the water afterwards. big mistake! The water just floated on the surface! In the second barrel I put the water first - brain now functioning. But then I asked myself why add the water anyway?? So the rest of the 350 hives were fed neat. I did place straw as a float but I'm not sure if it was really necessary as the syrup is so thick the bees can walk on it. Most beekeepers who used the HFCS that year had higher than usual winter losses. I had one of the best winter successes for many years. They all blamed the syrup, and now the Federation only purchases regular sucrose syrup. The vagrancies of beekeeping! Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:08:08 -0500 Reply-To: hbee@maine.rr.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: MaineBee Subject: Poison pollen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to ALL! Just curious to know if honeybees collect are able to collect "poison" pollen? Kind regards, Herb/Norma Bee "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." Douglas Adams :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:10:29 -0500 Reply-To: wwfarm@wctel.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carolyn Ehle Subject: Re: Sucrocide In-Reply-To: <403F5F86.3020901@frontiernet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I just received a bottle from Dadant. The label makes no mention of honey or supers. The "storage and disposal section" has the same statement as on all pesticide bottles: " Do not contaminate water food or feed by storage or disposal". There is no mention of food or feed elsewhere on the label. There are warnings for eye and skin contact and for swallowing that also appear to be the standard wording for pesticide containers. On the specific label it does mention "substantial but temporary eye injury" and environmental hazard to aquatic life. Other than mixing and timing, the most specific directions are attached separately: "Additional instructions: Remove frames with adhering bees and spray both sides". Carolyn in South Carolina, where the ice and snow won't melt until 60 degrees F tomorrow. Mike wrote: > Jeff Cook wrote: > > Can anyone tell me how long after the final application of this > product that I must wait before I can super a hive? I can't seem to > find this information anywhere. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:40:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Sucrocide Comments: To: wwfarm@WCTEL.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, My friends at Dadant usually contact me conerning their products and I respond on BEE-L but have not heard on the subject so will add my comments and *I am not speaking for Dadant or the maker of the product*. I was involved in intional testing of sucrose octanoate esters (SOE) as were commercial beekeepers in Florida (2003). What I was told is the product is very safe to use. does not contaminate wax, and will remove varroa from your hive if used as directed. Using while supers were on never came up as ALWAYS in the past we pull supers if a hive can not wait till fall etc. to be treated. I personally never understood why fluvalinate could be used in Europe while supers were on. Why use a treatment when bees are putting honey in supers? I believe the product (when combines with other IPM measures such as open bottom boards ,etc. ) will be exactly what the hobby beekeeper is looking for if they want to get off the chemical treadmill. I see SOE as another useful tool in the beekeepers arsenal. The product worked for me in my testing (small scale) but is labor intensive but possibly not unreasonable when considering no contamination problems for comb and honey. Also no health hazards for the beekeeper. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:32:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: 2004 USDA HONEY REPORT To ALL: FWIW, from the USDA: "This file contains the annual report of the number of colonies producing honey, yield per colony, honey production, average price, price by color class and value; honey stocks by state and U.S." http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/reports/nassr/other/zho-bb/ Regards, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC (Whose Grandma taught me to take everything with a grain of salt.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:05:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: How to draw foundation >What exactly do you mean by the term "corn syrup"? Sorry, I generalized the term. Thought you would just of taken for granted that I meant 55% fructose corn syrup. I dont have the storage to take liquid bulk sucrose, and dont have the time to mix sugar syrup... I would have to ask you to back youself up with some science on HFCS having "harmful non-digestible products for a bee and can cause sickness and/or death." I have never had any problems with HFCS, and use it routenly every year with the greatest of success. A couple of gallons or so satisfy their brooding needs, but I usually feed another pail to finnish off the foundation nicely. They dont touch the foundation if I dont feed the hives liberaly. They even draw the plastic out without a second thought.. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:36:04 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How to draw foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 27/02/04 05:04:38 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > But, I have had problems with adding foundation "before" the flow starts. > If foundation is put on a hive, with no flow, the bees often chew the > foundation down to the wires, ruining it for future use. > > I have the answer to this. Don't give foundation in large sheets, which > must be unnatural things for bees to cope with in any case. I tend nowadays to > 'wire' frames with fishing line and use narrow starter strips of foundation > to set them off on the right lines. > > To reinforce what Robin wrote about feeding sugar, if you need to do so it > is a sign that you are being greedy: either by robbing your bees of their seed > corn as well as harvesting their surplus; or by keeping more bees in an area > than can be justified by the forage available. However, I can see that in > some circumstances, for example to fulfil pollination contracts it is necessary > to do the latter. > > If the beekeeper wants to feed sugar and maintain quality control of the > honey produced he should dye the sugar a colour that is not usually seen in > food, such as blue. > > Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:16:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Poisoned pollen In-Reply-To: <1077896750.403f662eaf649@209.51.153.186> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Herb/Norma, I am presuming that your definition of "poison pollen" is one where material detrimental to the well-being / health of a honey bee or honey bee colony is present in/on pollen particles. If so, then, yes, pollen may be poisonous. Many synthetic compounds have been noted to been present in pollen loads collected by honey bees. Toxic consequences on the adult bee/ brood varies depending on which substance is found, at what concentration, method of product application, meteorological conditions. Compounds may be stable for short, medium and long term as stored in the hive body - again causing different types of problem when relating to colony regulation. Recent dialogue has been taking place about levels of the molecule Imidaclopride present in Sunflowers and Maize pollen and its consequences on honey bee colonies. As techniques and science advance - points of reference have been changing. What has been considered as correct in the past, is now either no longer held as true or is under investigation. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:29:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Poison pollen? Comments: To: hbee@MAINE.RR.COM In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:08:08 -0500 From: MaineBee Subject: [BEE-L] Poison pollen? To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Send reply to: hbee@MAINE.RR.COM > Just curious to know if honeybees collect are able to collect "poison" > pollen? Yes, many pesticides are slow acting enough (such as powdered Sevin) so that bees carry it back in the pollen pellets to feed to the young. Also some plants are naturally poisonous, though I'm not sure whether it's pollen or nectar to blame with yellow jassmine and titi (southeastern US), or buckeye (California). I suspect it's the pollen with the first two because it primarily affects brood. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:04:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "h.morton@worldnet.att.net" Subject: Need Color Bee Pictures I'm a beekeeper in the Raleigh, North Carolins area. I have been requested to give a presentation on beekeeping at a local elementry school. I think it would be interesting to present color pictures of an apairy and other pictures at least a queen, drone and workers. Can anyone help me? Thanks in Advance!! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:36:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kurt Bower Subject: Re: Need Color Bee Pictures I am not sure of your involvement in the North Carolina State Beekeepers Association, but since you are based out of Raleigh, this would be my first choice. The state has many resources available for loan and I am certain they could assist you in your request. Check out http://www.ncbeekeepers.org/ and see if you can locate a source. you are close enough that you could pick up what you need. If you are planning a presentation involving a projector then I would recommend doing a searh at http://www.google.com/imghp? hl=en&tab=wi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q= Google is a very powerful search engine and will provide an endless source of pictures that you can put in a PowerPoint presentation. Best regards, Kurt Bower Julian, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:10:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: How to draw foundation In-Reply-To: <200402272205.i1RLNuTJ007720@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian wrote: > I would have to ask you to back youself up with some science on HFCS > having "harmful non-digestible products for a bee and can cause sickness > and/or death." Lots in the archives about acid hydrolyzed and enzyme produced HFCS. The latter is the common method but there is some acid hydrolyzed on the market which is the one that is harmful. The main problem is with winter feed in colder climates. You will get losses because of the feed. (There are some issues with 55% vrs 42% as winter feed - also in the archives.) As far as using acid hydrolyzed HFCS to draw foundation, you could probably get away with it since you are also producing bees at the same time so would replenish any losses. Cannot do that in the middle of the winter. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:29:38 -0600 Reply-To: karissa@jessfarms.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Karissa Subject: Re: Need Color Bee Pictures In-Reply-To: <200402280304.i1S2aROT006766@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello: On 27 Feb 2004 at 22:04, h.morton@worldnet.att.net wrote: >I'm a beekeeper in the Raleigh, North Carolins area. I have been requested to give a presentation on beekeeping at a local elementry school. I think it would be interesting to present color pictures of an apairy and other pictures at least a queen, drone and workers. Can anyone help me? This is my first post to Bee-L, although I've been "lurking" for awhile. I have found quite a few *wonderful*, VERY high quality photos at www.insectimages.org They are listed as free for non-profit, educational use, as long as you give proper credit. Hope this is helpful! Grace and peace, Karissa (North Central Texas) www.jessfarms.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:27:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Need Color Bee Pictures It helps to search the Archives of BEE-L, this is just a start: http://photo.bees.net includes 375 annotated, searchable bee photos Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:18:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Silver Lace Vine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Does anyone have any experience with the Sliver Lace Vine as a bee plant. It is a species of Polygonum, the same genus as Japanese Knotweed. The plant flowers, as knotweed, mid-summer to frost. It is a vine and can reach 20 feet in one season, or so the catalogs claim. If it is as attractive as knotweed and is easily cultivated it could be a good addition to the yard as it blossoms profusely and during a time that otherwise is less than ideal for bees in my area. Also, according to the catalog, it is hardy to zone 4. Coleene Michigan, Zone 5 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::