From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:44:58 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-89.8 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B0348FD8 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDdDJl012145 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0403C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 87371 Lines: 1926 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 04:35:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation In-Reply-To: <200403142310.i2ELY2jX020653@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "All beekeeping is local" is used as to justify overwintering with upper ventilation success and bottom only ventilation success I the same times. Yet, as a beginner, there are still some points I do not understand : 1. From California to Prince Edouard Island and from Florida to Alaska there must be some places with climates similar from other places located between Spain and Finland, between Ireland and Russia. 2. If one set up is better than the other one because of local conditions, climate, weather, flowers, is it possible to identify more precisely the factor(s) that favour one set up more than the other ? Scandinavian and East Europe countries may have long snowy winter as well. And I have been told Vancouver could be as wet as Edimbourgh. Hervé Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Dialoguez en direct avec vos amis grâce à Yahoo! Messenger !Téléchargez Yahoo! Messenger sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 06:40:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation In-Reply-To: <001501c40a0b$e502cae0$9341ddcb@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit T & M Weatherhead wrote: > After reading this, I have been thinking about the feral hives that I have > boxed out of trees. I would say that in the majority of cases, the > entrances are above the nest. Some I recall were about half way. > > Not sure if our mild climate would make any difference. We need ventilation > in our normal hives because of the humidity. Nope, not the climate. Obviously, since you are south of the equator, everything is reversed :) Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 06:40:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Suzanne Geisler Subject: Southwest Ohio Beekeeper's School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My cousin, her husband, my husband and myself attended the Southwest = Ohio Beekeeper's School this weekend. There was quite a crowd there = (350-400?). Many of us were novices so we were quite excited to attend. My group decided to split up and attend different sessions so we could = learn as much as possible. Our plan was to share what we learned over = dinner. The funny thing was that if you ask 100 beekeepers you get 100 = answers! (to quote from a beekeeper!) We spent the rest of the evening arguing over the different opinions we = heard presented during our sessions. We must be officially beekeepers = now. We've all been stung, we all don't agree, and we all spend too much = money on the venders! Thanks to all who planned the event and to the vendors who donated the = great raffle prizes. My cousin won a beesuit! Suzanne Geisler Springboro, OH :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:26:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation In-Reply-To: <20040315033547.96928.qmail@web20805.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hervé Logé wrote: > "All beekeeping is local" is used as to justify > overwintering with upper ventilation success and > bottom only ventilation success I the same times. > 2. If one set up is better than the other one because > of local conditions, climate, weather, flowers, is it > possible to identify more precisely the factor(s) that > favour one set up more than the other ? Scandinavian > and East Europe countries may have long snowy winter > as well. And I have been told Vancouver could be as > wet as Edimbourgh. There are underlying truths to beekeeping. If you do not follow those you might fail, but not always. It all depends on where you are, which is why "All beekeeping is local". It is not that there are different ways to keep bees, but that local conditions allow the bees to survive in spite of the beekeeper's practices. Were the conditions different, then "standard local practices" could be disastrous. It is nearly impossible to compare regions. Climate is not uniform by latitude, longitude or much anything. Even in Maine, we can have different conditions in a 10 mile radius. A friend has a terrible time keeping bees only because of his location compared to mine, and we are less than 5 miles from each other. Latitudes are especially deceptive. There are places in Sweden, close the the Arctic Circle, that have a milder climate than Maine, but Maine is about the same latitude as Spain! Bob H can overwinter with no upper ventilation. We in Maine, generally, cannot. The difference in climates is pronounced. Our winters are longer, wetter, with few opportunities for the bees to fly until February and sometimes March. His climate is about 10F warmer in the winter. It is inland while we are on the ocean. The large commercial beekeepers in Maine overwinter their bees in Florida, while Bob appear to overwinter in state. We have covered this subject often and it really gets down to what the bees can handle. If you change the subject (winter feed, open bottoms, various mite treatments) it all gets back to the bees and specific local conditions. Until you know all the variables involved, Caveat Emptor. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:35:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Blane White Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim and Everyone, Lloyd, Glen Stanley does in fact use an upper entrance - between the two deep boxes not at the top of the hive. The top of the hive is insulated which prevents moisture from collecting and dripping on the cluster alone the the entrance between the boxes it works very well here in the north. In the past I have used an entrance at the top of the hive as many do but have switched to the entrance between the boxes. Both work. The top insulation may retain enough of the heat from the cluster that the cluster can cover more frames and move to nearby stores under colder outside conditions which of course helps winter survival in cold climates. Jim it sounds to me like you did things right. The additional feeding is also key to getting colonies through the winter in good shape. FWIW blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:23:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: No bottom entrance In-Reply-To: <200403140500.i2E501fH006541@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar wrote: "The entrance was in the middle of the hive stack. Has anyone tried this approach?" Hives generate a lot of trash. This trash, like that in our own kitchens, has to be taken out. No bottom entrance makes this task pretty difficult for the bees. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:40:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: topbarguy@HOTMAIL.COM Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation Hi Guys, I must defer to those with more feral hive experience than I concerning feral hive entrances. Very few ferals can survive here so I don't have much experience with them. My basis for a swarm's preferring a bottom entrance was research done by Morse and continued by Seeley at Cornell U. The great variety of management techniques that are applied to our bees are an indication of how adaptable bees are. Many survive inspite of us. :>) Upper ventilation is touted as a cure for excessive winter moisture. I wonder how many hives have problems with this? Regards Dennis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:08:05 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Queen intro in a 2-queen hive. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have a question for a friend beekeeper who is not on Bee-L. He has a failing queen (poor brood pattern with a lot of drone cells) and he's getting a new queen. He would like to save the old queen (no heart to kill her) as a back-up until the new queen has been accepted. It occured to me that the following set-up could work: 1. leave the old queen in the lower box and cover it with a queen excluder 2. put on the upper box with all the brood frames in it 3. place the caged new queen in between the brood frames in the upper box for an indirect method release We still get cold days on Long Island (30's and 40's F intermingled with 50's & 60's F) and, if the bees cluster spanning both boxes, I am afraid that they will either abandon the old queen or kill the new one. Has anyone attempted this kind of introduction method? Could it work or should a fellow beekeeper not even attempt it. Thank you. Waldemar :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:03:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation >The great variety of management techniques that are applied to our bees are >an indication of how adaptable bees are. Many survive inspite of us. :>) No, many survive becasue of us. You said it yourself,"Very few ferals can survive here so I don't have much experience with them". And yet the bees you are looking after are flurishing. Perhaps they are flurishing becasue of our intervention. And without our intervention there would be no bees in many areas of the country, most of Canada, and parts of the US. We provide the environment and needed resources, they do the work. Yes they are highly adaptable creatures, but we provide them the environment to adapt to. >Upper ventilation is touted as a cure for excessive winter moisture. I >wonder how many hives have problems with this? You have to realize that not all climates are as dry as yours is throughout the year. Do you shovel out your hives everytime you get a dump of snow? You probably dont get alot of snow anyway, but do you go and make sure all enterences are free throughout the winter? Top enterences open themselves from frost ice and snow, and never fill up with dead bees. Ipack them for winter, and the next time I see them is in the spring. As I said, top enterences are the needed insurance to winter successfully up here in Manitoba. The little bit of heat loss is by far offset by the advantages of its use Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:26:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Queen intro in a 2-queen hive. In-Reply-To: <20040315.130812.18463.1959556@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14C01C33; boundary="=======69803C35=======" --=======69803C35======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14C01C33; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Waldemar asked: >1. leave the old queen in the lower box and cover it with a queen excluder >2. put on the upper box with all the brood frames in it >3. place the caged new queen in between the brood frames in the upper box >for an indirect method release > Has anyone attempted this kind of introduction method? I often requeen in such a way. Of course, your friend should just kill the failing queen, and introduce the new one. But, if he's bound and determined... For a colony that I want to requeen...not a weak one like yours...I remove the top brood box, and make that the nuc. I shake all the bees out of it, and place it back on the hive, on top of an excluder. The queen remains below, with some of the brood. The next day, I remove the nuc, and replace the excluder with an inner cover...escape hole closed, rim up, entrance to the back. Give the caged queen to the nuc, at this point. If you are on a flow, the bottom will need some extra room...they have all the field bees. The old bees fly home, leaving mostly young bees, which readily accept the new queen. After three weeks, when the new queen is laying well, and the nuc is building in strength, go below and kill the old queen, and unite with newspaper. Mike > --=======69803C35=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:23:46 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: Winter cluster size in New World Carniolan stock Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have been looking into plants to grow into border hedges in my backyard. Can anyone suggest any plants that also provide pollen & nectar for honey bees? Anything blooming in the 2nd half of the summer and evergreen would be best. 6-12 ft height would be great. I am thinking of putting in some fast-growing bamboo but I don't know that it even produces flowers... Thank you. Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:40:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Queen intro in a 2-queen hive. >He has a failing queen (poor brood pattern with a lot of drone cells) and he's getting a new queen. He would like to save the old queen (no heart to kill her) as a back-up until the new queen has been accepted. Kill the old queen. She is failing, righ? then get rid of her for she is of no further use to you now and will only pull the colony down. She will interupt the introduction of your new queen, If you really wnat to keep the old one, split the hive in two, requeen the top half, and after she is accepted and laying recombine the two bodies with a queen excluder inbetween, Kill the old queen and save yourself the bother!! Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:40:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Queen intro in a 2-queen hive. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:08:05 GMT, waldig@NETZERO.COM wrote: "We still get cold days on Long Island (30's and 40's F intermingled with 50's & 60's F) and, if the bees cluster spanning both boxes, I am afraid that they will either abandon the old queen or kill the new one." FWIW, Your bees will follow the brood wherever you place the comb with brood. Your friend has a very weak hive, just how weak I can not tell, perhaps only one or two small patches of brood and a frame or two of bees. A new queen must be introduced within the cluster as if she chills she may become infertile - or even die. The technique of separation that you described will probably leave the old queen to die by chilling out side of the cluster. This time of year make sure by guarantee from the breeder that the new queen is a bred laying queen, not a virgin that has not yet had her maiden mating flight(s). It’s too early to take the chance of a mating flight here in NC; much less Long Island, NY. All introductions and manipulations need to be done on a warm day. I hate to do it too, but take the old queen and scratch her head onto the new queens cage, I have been told that this helps gain acceptance; however this may be one of those things such as Aaron’s old wives tales that "just seems" to work. Another important thing that your friend can do the same day after the new queen, in her cage, has been placed into the frame with brood is to take a bottle type sprayer that has never been used and fill it half-way with 50/50 sugar syrup and a couple drops flavored extract. Peppermint, almond, vanilla all work fine. Then spray with the bottle sprayer using a very fine light mist onto the weak bees. Then take a good frame of capped brood out of a strong hive and spray that frame and all the nurse bees and workers on the frame as well, not too much, just a bit to dampen them with syrup and flavored extract. The new frame of capped brood with all the nurse bees and others should then go into the weak hive next to a frame of brood. Just be sure that this is done on a fairly warm day so as not to chill the brood. Since the frame will have mostly nurse bees on it; the extract scent along with every bee cleaning the syrup off each other and themselves will mask odors; acceptance of each other will be gained easily. After about a week or 10 days at the most has passed check the queen to see if she is laying. Some queens are slower to start laying up to speed than others, keep an eye on her pattern and amount of eggs laid in a day. Add another frame of brood with nurse bees if still weak; if not shake them off and just add a frame of capped brood. This will work this time of year. Regards, Chuck Norton Norton’s Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:17:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Winter cluster size in New World Carniolan stock In-Reply-To: <20040315.132400.18463.1959870@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bamboo blooms about every 50 to 100 years depending on the type then dies. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 waldig@NETZERO.COM wrote: > >I am thinking of putting in some fast-growing bamboo but I don't know that it even produces flowers... > > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:25:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Lannom Subject: Re: Queen intro in a 2-queen hive. In-Reply-To: <20040315.130812.18463.1959556@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit waldig@NETZERO.COM wrote: >"I have a question for a friend beekeeper who is not on Bee-L. He has a failing queen (poor brood pattern with a lot of drone cells) and he's getting a new queen. He would like to save the old queen" > Save her for what? Dispatch her now and go new! Michael :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:56:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Queen intro in a 2-queen hive. Waldemar, A postscript to my last message: You had written, "He has a failing queen (poor brood pattern with a lot of drone cells) and he's getting a new queen." I neglected to suggest that you should look first to see if there was any capped worker brood. A lack of worker brood and the existence of drone brood and a spotty pattern and/or drones the size of worker bees is indicative of a worker layer; if there exists no worker brood with normal sized drones then the queen is a drone layer. The former, worker layer, is more difficult to introduce a new queen than the later. Recent discussion on the BEE-L has dealt with queen introductions and various suggestions with this problem. IMO this is best accomplished with a nuc having a good queen and a nuc introduction board placed over the failing hive. Hope that I have helped. Regards, Chuck :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:41:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: topbarguy@HOTMAIL.COM Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation Hi Ian, My hives do get covered with snow. I never check, shovel snow away from, or drag dead bees out of the hive entrances. After doing all the right upper entrance stuff for decades, I did have some concerns during the first few years of tests. Years ago, when the test hives were buried in snow for some weeks, I chickened out and removed the plugs out of about half the upper entrances. :>) But I'm not concerned about it now. Without the upper draft, my bees will fly at lower ambient temperatures and take more frequent, shorter duration cleansing flights. With the upper draft, the flights were less frequent and much more intense. At the first good day there would be massive bee flight, lots of dead bees in the snow, and yellow bee manure on everything including the beekeeper if he's in the yard. :>) I haven't seen that with the upper entrances closed. The bees are much less stessed. Regards Dennis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:18:07 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Queen intro in a 2-queen hive. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO any interference with the laying queen this early is tricky and dangerous for the colony, so must be done with max caution. Failure now and the lot will be worthless for this season. Rubbing the old queen'shead onto an intro cage seems crude at the least - and unlikely to appeal to this beekeeper who is sentimental enough to want to keep a failing queen. I would suggest first confining the old queen in an intro cage put between the top bars of the brood frames - and keeping all the brood of this weak colony as compact as poss - no spreading so early. Then , a day or so later, when the cage is marked by the old queen's scent, substitute the new queen and remove the old. You might like to try Snelgrove's water method - dip the mailing cage with the new queen quickly into warm water to wash off her own pheromone before transfering the wet queen into the scent-marked cage within the colony. If you want to keep the old queen, when you remove the cage with her in it, keep the adhering bees on it, take to a window and shake off the 8 bees or so - then confine those 8 workers plus the old queen in a second cage ( like they are mailed) , give candy and keep in the dark in a warm place. The old queen should last at least a couple of weeks or longer - so check for acceptance of the new queen after say 2 weeks - but only quickly and lightly - plenty of pollen going in would be sufficient evidence without opening if the weather is kind. Remember that a new queen is not secure until surrounded by her own progeny - too much early disturbance and she may be superceded. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:55:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Queen intro in a 2-queen hive. Comments: To: Robin Dartington MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Waldemar wrote, ” He has a failing queen (poor brood pattern with a lot of drone cells) and he's getting a new queen. He would like to save the old queen (no heart to kill her) as a back-up until the new queen has been accepted.” in the original thread. When I was a younger life was more simplistic with higher ideals, concepts, and goals. As time goes on so does life with all its births and passings. Losing things that you love such as your parents, brothers, even your family pet can be heartbreaking to say the very least. Enter beekeeping: True, I used to dislike to the point of absolution disposing a queen. I quickly found out that if I kept the old queen, drone layer, especially a laying worker, acceptance of a new queen rapidly became a problem, an expensive problem since each attempt of introducing a caged queen would fail and the colony would become so weak that it could not survive. Take the old queen to a veterinarian for euthanization if you must, I realize that a honeybee is not like a wasp or a fly that you would hit with a fly swatter. There are some people who believe that you should not kill any living thing, that’s your call. But if you wish to be a beekeeper, even the gentlest of all beekeepers will occasionally injure or kill a bee, its part of the job. And, unfortunately its part of the job to dispose of the failing queen. If you put her out of the hive IMO you are doing her more harm and suffering than a swift and painless end; if you keep her in the hive you IMO are prolonging suffering of the individual workers that remain and giving the remaining brood no chance to survive since the hive quickly becomes infested with drones, and nurse bees diminish in numbers as there are fewer and fewer workers hatching to support the hive. When you get down to if you want to be a beekeeper then you sometimes must do things that are against your grain, so to speak. I replace every queen every year, sometimes twice a year. If I kept the old queen each time I would not be a successful beekeeper, I would be out of a job. Keep the old queen or kill her, its always a personal choice. My choice is to keep my bees and be a better beekeeper. Regards, Chuck Norton Norton’s Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:23:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Donald Campbell Subject: Bamboo MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, I live in NY, just north of White Plains. I have some wild bamboo growing on my property, I found it growing on a small lake near Roscoe, NY and transplanted it here 10 years ago.I planted it in a wet area. It grows rather large (up to 8 - 9 feet high)and spreads via the root system. I have to stay on top of it, or it would take over my yard! In the winter everything above ground dies. I remove the dead 'bamboo' and in the spring it grows back to the 8-9 foot height. The bees love it! It flowers in the late fall, and every bee, bumblebee, and nectar loving insect you can think of, is at it. The bloom lasts about 2 weeks. I found the below site, perhaps a good internet search will uncover more info. http://www.americanbamboo.org/About.html Don Mohegan Lake, NY > I am thinking of putting in some fast-growing bamboo but I don't know that it even produces flowers... > > Thank you. > > Waldemar > Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:29:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Bamboo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don, The plant you describe is Japanese Knotweed. As you've noticed, it is VERY invasive and nearly impossible to irradicate (although persistence with RoundUP will do it in). Japanese Knotweed is discussed in great detail in the archives which can be searched at: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l Aaron Morris - thinking deja vu! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:08:38 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Botulism (was HACCP certification) In-Reply-To: <00b501c406b7$4ae4b1a0$a424d5d4@pomi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 In message <00b501c406b7$4ae4b1a0$a424d5d4@pomi>, Komppa-Seppälä writes >it >is recommended (?) in England. EU had some group looking in to this few years >ago, but they did not come up with demand to put it on the label for all EU >countries. I have seen the warning on honey in supermarkets. The recent changes in labelling of honey in the UK don't seem to require it. But they now require a sell-by date which is causing problems. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:19:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Re: Bamboo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Per Aaron, > The plant you describe is Japanese Knotweed. As you've noticed, it is VERY > invasive and nearly impossible to irradicate" True Aaron, but the honey is wonderful-if you like dark honey. The flavor is strong without the bitterness of buckwheat and the color, when held to the light is that of dark red wine. I found a stand of the stuff close to me and am going to transplant some at home. It can't be any more invasive than the brambles that sometimes do and sometimes don't produce wild blackberries. Coleene > http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l > > Aaron Morris - thinking deja vu! > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:25:26 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Botulism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James Kilty wrote: >>But they now require a sell-by date which is causing problems.<< Why is this causing problems? Best regards Roger White Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:15:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Hensler Subject: Re: Winter cluster size in New World Carniolan stock ----- Original Message ----- From: To: > I have been looking into plants to grow into border hedges in my backyard. Can anyone suggest any plants that also provide pollen & nectar for honey bees? Anything blooming in the 2nd half of the summer and evergreen would be best. 6-12 ft height would be great.< Either Rugosa or Hansa Rugosa roses would fit the bill on all the counts you have listed. > I am thinking of putting in some fast-growing bamboo but I don't know that it even produces flowers...< You might want to check with your state noxious weed list first? Here is the URL to the Federal Noxious Weed list http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/permits/fnwsbycat-e.html I don't have a link to New York's page, if they have one. Skip Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, WA http://www.povn.com/rock/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:15:10 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation > Without the upper draft, my bees will fly at lower ambient temperatures > and take more frequent, shorter duration cleansing flights. With the upper > draft, the flights were less frequent and much more intense. At the first > good day there would be massive bee flight, lots of dead bees in the snow, > and yellow bee manure on everything including the beekeeper if he's in the > yard. :>) I haven't seen that with the upper entrances closed. > The bees are much less stessed. I don't see how the conclusion drawn in the last line is derived from the statements made in the paragraph above it. Top entrance or not, the temperature in the hive beyond the extent of the cluster is going to be about the same as the ambient temperature outside the hive. Even hives with "reduced" single entrances have enough air circulation to make this a true statement (insert here the usual Bee-L disclaimer about the unique case of wrapped and/or insulated hives, which I like to call "The Alberta Exception"). Therefore, the bees are going to decide that it is "OK to fly" using the same clues either way - the temperature INSIDE the hive, and the temperature near the entrance. Could it be that what was observed here was nothing but a function of specific winters with longer periods at lower temperatures, rather than the different entrance configurations? jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:19:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TNT Apiaries Subject: Wood Brands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for wood brand. We purchased two, 20 years ago from a = company called EVERHOT Manufacturing in Maywood, Illinois. These were = designed to fit on the end of a smaller propane torch you hooked to a 10 = lb. or larger bottle. We have branded tens of thousands of items and = they're wearing out. The nice thing is they were cast. All I've found = in Alberta is a Foundry which will make brands out of Brass. The = Company warns that you have to watch your heat very, very carefully with = these or you have meltdown and no brand. I can see this would be a = problem with staff. Unfortunately, Everhot doesn't seem to exist any = more; at least, not by that name. Anyone know of another company in = Canada or the US. or if Everhot is now functioning under a different = name? Dave Tharle Ardmore, AB Canada :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:51:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David Kesler Subject: software for waggle dances? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you recommend easy-to-use polar plotting software that can be used to plot the results of waggle dance data? =20 David Kesler =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D David H. Kesler, Ph.D. Biology Department Rhodes College 2000 N. Parkway Memphis, TN 38112 901-843-3557 e-mail: kesler@rhodes.edu web site: http://www.rhodes.edu/biology/kesler calendar: http://calendar.yahoo.com/lampsilis1 =20 "Nobody makes a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little." Edmund Burke =20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:25:57 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Phil Gurr Subject: Re: Wood Brands The message <006801c40c6d$dc75e920$a93c22cf@tntapi> from TNT Apiaries contains these words: > I am looking for wood brand. snip > Anyone know of another company in Canada or the US. or if Everhot is > now functioning under a different name? Just Google, you'll find hundreds, such as Phil. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:18:03 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: Re: Wood Brands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try this company. http://www.everhotmfg.com/ (West Texas) Mark :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:19:10 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Botulism >> James Kilty wrote: >> >> But they now require a sell-by date >> which is causing problems. > Why is this causing problems? Perhaps because it is an utterly bogus concept when applied to honey? Somewhat like putting US Navy "radiation hazard" stickers on bicycles? I can just imagine the consumer impression that such an "improvement" in the art of consumer information might make... "Oh dear, this jar of honey on my shelf is past its sell-by date, and now I must throw it out. Gosh, I'll never buy honey again, I hate having to throw out food..." Or worse yet: "Oh dear, this jar of honey has tuned from a liquid into a crystallized lump. It must have 'gone bad'. I should complain to the store and demand a full refund, as it is nowhere near the 'sell-by date' printed on the label..." But worst of all, let a few years go by, and even the most bogus ideas tend to become basic requirements required to protect the citizenry, and a legitimate concern of any "health-conscious consumer": "What's in these bottles? Something called 'mead' laid down by grandpa jim way back in 1990... I wonder why he kept it in this locked temperature-controlled closet with this quaint old fiber-optic rack? Imagine trying to get by with just a 45 megabit per second link to the UltraNet - so 20th Century! Wow, it is a entire CASE of this 'mead' stuff, and its been here 60 years. Too bad there's no sell-by date on it - I guess I'll just have to toss it all along with these other two cases of, ummmm... lets brush the dust off the labels... 'Chateau Margaux 1940'. Yeech, the 'Marguax' stuff has turned RED. I guess 'Margo' was his wife, or something..." jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 04:17:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Adam Subject: Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls Standard advice for single walled hives in the past seems to be avoiding painting them. The argument being that it stops the wood "breathing" and in turn, causes condensation, mould and other problems inside the hive. With the use of open mesh floors all year round - the hive now has significant "ventilation" all year round, and this being the case, I can't believe the percentage of water moisture passing through the hive walls is anything more than a percent or two. This being the case - is their any reason not to paint single walled hives? (only in the case of 365 days a year, open mesh floor). I'm based on the south coast of England. A. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:51:38 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Phil Moore Subject: Re: Bamboo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It can't be any more invasive > than the brambles that sometimes do and sometimes don't produce wild > blackberries. > > Coleene Here in the UK it is far more invasive than Bramble and in un-cultivated areas will swamp all other vegetation. It also causes real problems in conservation areas were it is displacing native flora. Regards Phil Moore :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:34:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls In-Reply-To: <200403180917.i2I9DXfJ023635@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Unless you mean something different by single walled hives, most hives in the US are single walled, painted on the outside. Unpainted hives may be more common in England where cedar (weather resistant wood is used). Most of ours, with the exception of Rossman's cypress boxes and a few speciality hives, are constructed from softwoods- pine or fir. Without paint, they'd quickly weather and warp. So, with or without screens, painted boxes are used by the millions on this side of the pond. I've also seen lots of unpainted hives in poor, tropical countries. I suspect that 1) their slab wood may come from more rot-resistant wood, and 2) its viewed as an additional expense. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:12:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 04:17:29 -0500, Adam wrote: "Standard advice .....seems to be avoiding painting them. The argument being that it stops the wood "breathing" and in turn, causes condensation, mould and other problems inside the hive."..."With the use of open mesh floors all year round - the hive now has significant "ventilation" all year round, and this being the case, I can't believe the percentage of water moisture passing through the hive walls is anything more than a percent or two. This being the case - is their any reason not to paint single walled hives?" In my opinion one should not paint the inside of the hive at anytime. Such efforts are not warranted, needed nor are they healthy to the bees in the hive; furthermore, it is my opinion that the use of open mesh floors has less to do with ventilation than what you may believe. Think about a hot air balloon and how it works; use the burning of a mixture of air, and either propane or hydrogen mixture as the heat source for the balloon, then substitute the cluster for the heat source of the balloon. Warm moist air rises from the cluster and gives birth to convection currents inside the hive. Because warm air rises hive ventilation is controlled by the amount and method of top ventilation, with no top ventilation or any other ventilation except the standard reduced entrance in winter months you have basically no replacement of air, "dead air". IMO given no top ventilation very little exchange of air is accomplished even with an open bottom screen alone, except during windy days when turbulence causes movement and displacement of the air in the hive; however that should be confined to the lower few inches of the bottom of the hive. Airplane wings in flight have a layer of air next to the skin of the wing that stays with the wing! The laws of physics do not change! In cooler or cold months while bees are in cluster normal respiration creates convection currents that either egress through the top part of the hive conveyed by top hive ventilation or as expanded warm moist air through the bottom screen, the latter being reduced to quite a trickle of air due to the need for air to be replenished during the displacement caused by the convection set into motion by the warmer moist air created by the cluster. When warm moist air contacts a cooler surface condensation will occur so long as the dew point of the vapor is reached when contacting the surface and additional water vapor that does not have the opportunity to condense for whatever reason exits the top of the hive (through top hive ventilation) or is recycled by internal convection. Cooler dryer air from within the hive and outside the hive will replace the warm moist air that has been vented by normal means of circulation caused by convection and displacement of the relatively warmer air by cooler and dryer air. In warmer months when the bees are no longer in cluster control of airflow in the hive is managed by the bees within the hive and through top hive ventilation if the bees in the hive will allow it. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:38:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls > is their any reason not to paint single walled hives? I dont see any need of painting the inside of the hive. It is never exposed to the elements, so really, by painting it, your not protecting it from anything. And I think the bees would prefer you to leave it bare. Anyway, the bees polish the inside of the hive from one end to the other with proplois, so I think by painting it you are wasteing time and money Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:32:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Curtis Gunderson Subject: white blossom sweet clover Does anyone have an old variety of white blossm sweet clover called,"Polara"? I am looking for a supply of seed. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Adam Subject: Re: Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls Thanks for the replies. I made a bit of a mistake in not explaining in more detail - I was only referring to the outside of the hive. I know this is widely practised elsewhere (painting the outside), but in the UK, the use of cedar means hives are not normally painted. Following on, the text books in the UK never recommend painting the outside? Now I can understand this, if a particular peculiarity of English weather meant more moisture ended up inside the hive (than other countries), and not painting the outside may well have developed as a result of experimentation based on local climate. There is no economic reason I can see why people avoid painting the hive. With the switch to open mesh floors - for Varroa control, we have effectively opened 1 "surface" of the hive. I was interested in the comments about it being like a hot air balloon, but still am not convinced - a balloon has a very narrow neck at the bottom and a very high temperature going in. A hive would have much less surface area relative to opening - so would moisture and wind regularly replace this "dead" air inside? Thanks (again) A. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:04:48 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Albert Cannon Subject: Re: Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls In-Reply-To: <200403182209.i2IKRnnD015104@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >-- Original Message -- >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:09:13 -0500 >Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > >From: Adam >Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls >To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > > >Thanks for the replies. I made a bit of a mistake in not explaining in more >detail - I was only referring to the outside of the hive. I know this is >widely practised elsewhere (painting the outside), but in the UK, the use >of cedar means With reference to the painting of the outside of hives in the UK i paint mine and so do the monks at Buckfast Abbey. And i reckon whats good enough for them is good enough for anyone. albert .com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: __________________________________________________ Broadband from an unbeatable £15.99! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/home.html?code=SM-NL-11AM :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:36:57 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls In-Reply-To: <200403182209.i2IKRnnD015104@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cedar or not, I would guess that paint on the outside makes no real difference to moisture control. That said, paint Color may. In our hot, semi-arid prairies of the western U.S., hives are painted white or reflective silver -- since shade trees are virtually absent and most of these areas too remote and far flung to warrant shade cloths. Wide open bottom entrances and lots of water do the trick. In cool climates in the northern coastal states, I've seen lots of dark colored hives - brown, green, etc. Out here on the prairies, in the winter, we often wrap hives in black felt in an effort to collect some heat on sunny days. Now, I have seen some dramatic examples of the so-called breathing of a hive, or maybe I should say the absence of breathability, whatever that is. Whereas I doubt that paint on the outside of wood makes much difference per se to all of this, the hive construction materials do make a difference. I've seen hives made of high density particle board (a glued up composite material) placed side by side with regular softwood (pine/fir board) hives in the spring in Missoula and have watched the water dripping out of the particle board hives, with none from the regular hives. Both types of hive were painted white on the outside, but the dense, wood/glue composite sheeted water. The owner was a poor student with a strong back. Ever tried to lift a deep super made of high density particle board? I've also seen hard, plastic-sided hives in the Seattle area in the spring, where its really wet from rain and high humidity. These plastic hives literally ran water out the bottom. The wooden hives also do so, but not nearly as much. Again, I refer to inspecting side by side setups. Note, I am not referring to the expanded foam plastic hives that are now showing up on the market. These hives were made of a dense, hard plastic. It wouldn't hold paint, was more or less impervious to things and certainly didn't absorb much of anything. One other note, the Seattle folks used slatted racks on the bottom of their hives. Don't know how much difference it made in ventilation, moisture, etc. -- but it served a purpose. It kept the wet bottom boards away from the brood frames, giving the bees a bit of a gap and a way to go in and out of the hive without trudging through water and slime. This was particularly evident in misplaced hives where the entrances were higher than the back of the box. You could find mini-ponds in some of those hives. Obviously, the simple fix was to tip the hives slightly forward so that condensation and rain drained out. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: topbarguy@HOTMAIL.COM Subject: Re: Upper Ventilation Hi Jim, >I don't see how the conclusion drawn in the last line is derived from the statements made in the paragraph above it. >Top entrance or not, the temperature in the hive beyond the extent of the cluster is going to be about the same as the ambient temperature outside the hive.... That's true as long as the temperature inside the hive is at or below about 46 degrees, the clustering temperature. But that's not the case when interior temps are above that and the bees are not clustered. The hive interior can be considerably warmer than ambient temperature. Warm enough that brood expansion is possible outside the area occupied by a cluster. These conditions are typical of spring and fall conditions in Wyoming. And persist longer than the harsh winter conditions where the bees behave much as you have described. >Therefore, the bees are going to decide that it is "OK to fly" using the same clues either way - the temperature INSIDE the hive, and the temperature near the entrance. True. But what effects the temps inside the hive? I think more than just ambient temperature. Solar radiation is one factor which could easily be lost up the chimney. >Could it be that what was observed here was nothing but a function of specific winters with longer periods at lower temperatures, rather than the different entrance configurations? Could be. But I've noticed a difference over the years between differently configured hives in the same yard. This year I can't say because none of them had any upward ventilation. And I didn't get nervous when they were buried in snow and cheat by opening the upper entrance like I did with some of them in the past:>) Regards topbarguy :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:59:13 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: software for waggle dances? > Can you recommend easy-to-use polar plotting software that > can be used to plot the results of waggle dance data? "Datapoint" http://www.stchas.edu/faculty/gcarlson/physics/datapoint.htm runs on consumer-grade workstations, cranks out data (Timestamp, Xpos, Ypos) fairly fast, and has the significant competitive advantage of being free to any member of the intelligentsia playing with artificial intelligence. Uh oh - does that make us all "artificial intelligentsia"? :) This is not mil-spec stuff, so it will want an easy-to-acquire "target" that stands out in the crowd. You will likely be forced to mark your foragers. I've played with it, and it can keep up with my Welsh Corgi wearing a day-glo orange collar while "herding" my neighbor's cattle at 200+ yards, so it should do fine tracking a marked bee at 6 inches. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:25:18 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Steve Rose Subject: Re: Mesh, Paint and Single skin walls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Adam wrote > > With the switch to open mesh floors - for Varroa control, we have > effectively opened 1 "surface" of the hive. I was interested in the > comments about it being like a hot air balloon, but still am not convinced - > a balloon has a very narrow neck at the bottom and a very high temperature > going in. A hive would have much less surface area relative to opening - so > would moisture and wind regularly replace this "dead" air inside? > I would have thought an open mesh floor and a small heat source in the centre of an otherwise empty hive would have caused strong convection currents up the centre of the hive and down the inside of the walls. On windy days this pattern would be disturbed and internal air flows would be unpredictable. However we have a cluster of bees plugging the centre of the hive controlling these convection currents. They have complete control of their heat generation and packing density and hence would be able to control their immediate environment without much need to propolise, fan or consume stores. I see OMF's as a method of empowering the bees to look after themselves provided you do not frustrate their efforts by generating your own draughts by opening the top to cause a chimney effect. All this assumes you are working with a single brood box. Double or triple brood boxes and especially wrapped hives will alter the dynamics considerably. I found during the winter of 2002/3 (my first incidentally) that the bees propolised my top ventilation holes. I took this as a gentle hint that they preferred not to have holes in the top. This winter (2003/4) I experimented with 11 hives using varying amounts of top insulation and one with a large ventilation hole and no insulation. All 11 made it through the winter and so far they all seem to be strong and free of disease. I suspect that if you have the right bees for the locality it's hard to go wrong. Much of my OMF theory is just armchair beekeeping of course as I have been building OMF's during the winter to try the system out for the first time (for me) this coming season. As for painting the outside I would guess that the amount of moisture passing through the hive walls would not affect the bees much either way but would cause most oil based paints to flake off and sealed wood to rot. If I fancied coloured hives I would paint them with porous paint to give it a better chance of staying on. However, I prefer to use nothing for cedar hives and a colourless or brown porous preservative on the outside only for deal and other softwoods. Kind regards Steve Rose, Derbyshire England :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:50:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Charles Frederic Andros, Linden Apiaries" Subject: For your calendar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For your calendar: "Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping = workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, April 24, at the Paul Harlow Farm on = Deep Root Drive off Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of = the I-91 Exit 5 ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. Topics = of discussion will be early spring management: locating apiaries, = equipment, handling bees, feeding syrup and supplements, fogging varroa = mites with FGMO/Thymol, making nuclei, reversing, and requeening. Bring = a veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. We'll be = in the barn if it is a rainy day. To register, email: lindena@sover.net = or call 603-756-9056.=20 Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, May 15, at the Paul Harlow Farm on = Farm on Deep Root Drive off Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile = north of the I-91 Exit 5 ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. Topics of discussion: finding queens, requeening and 2-queen colonies, pollen collection, swarm control, = supering, and bee venom therapy. Bring a veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. We'll be in the barn if it is a rainy day.=20 To register by email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056. "Tracheal and Varroa mites are notorious killers of bees in New England. American Foulbrood disease is on the increase as dead hives are being robbed. Beekeepers must take timely steps to control these pests to SAVE THE BEES! Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, July 17, at the Paul Harlow Farm on Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of the I-91 = Exit 5 ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. The topics of discussion will be taking off and extracting honey, wax processing, treatment of = mites and foulbrood, and making propolis tincture. Bring a veil, if you have = one, as we shall be opening some colonies. We'll be in the barn if it is a = rainy day.=20 To register email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056." "Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, September 25, at the Paul Harlow Farm = on Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of the I-91 Exit 5 = ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. Topics of discussion will = include treatment of nosema and tracheal mites, winter preparations, winter = protein and carbohydrate supplements, and making beeswax handcreams. Bring a = veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. We'll be in the = barn if it is a rainy day.=20 To register email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056." Thank you, Charles Frederic Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Speaker, Eastern Apicultural Society Conference 2001, on Propolis and = Pollen Production NH/VT Apiary Inspector 1978-1989 P. O. Box 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 lindena@sover.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:41:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Blue orchard bees I took my bees from the almonds yesterday. There were still a few blooms on some few late varieties, but the bees didn't seem happy. They really weren't working much, although the weather was fine. Whether they were getting tired of just that one source of forage, or whether it was lack of moisture (dry land almonds) or what, I'm not sure. The Blue Orchard bees were working well. Their population had got up quite a bit, but I didn't see them working the almonds. I get the feeling they probably work more of the native flowers than honey bees, and this would be a strike against them when it comes to at least this particular almond orchard. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:04:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Single vs. double I can now make some observations concerning single vs. double brood chambers in areas with lots of pollen during Jan-March. First, I needed honey quick, and the single boxes did that for me great. They also used up all the space, presumably cleaning out diseased cells as Allen mentioned. Except for a small amount of chalk brood, the only serious problem was something that looks like EFB in a hive without a queen excluder. But the space in the single brood boxes really doesn't enough, what with drone cells being so much bigger than worker cells, etc... The bees were even filling up the insides of the end frames with brood. I suppose that theoretically with perfect frames it might be enough, but not here with me. Scott Jefferies, who teaches beekeeping at the local Uni, and posts here as well came out with three guys from the Santa Maria beekeeping club last week, and we went through 3 of my apiaries. We noticed that while there was often plenty of honey in the second or third honey super, the first on the strong hives was light, packed with pollen. Scott suggested that the bees were really trying to get the queen up there, and so yesterday I started adding a second brood chamber. I also started going through the brood chambers checking for swarm cells, as I spent quite a bit of money on queens this December, and I found that just over half had swarm cells. PS, those Kona line queens are egg laying machines. At this point I should say that I checked one of my hives which was double brood box, and it had swarm cells too, but perhaps I can get some trends this weekend. It could be just the amount of pollen is causing them to want to swarm, but there isn't any doubt that single brood boxes in this area have to be carefully monitored to prevent the bees being stressed. On the positive side, the bees look very healthy, and that extra 50 pounds of honey came in really handy. Regards to the list Tim Vaughan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:18:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Single vs. double MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim said: I also started going through the brood chambers checking for swarm cells, as I spent quite a bit of money on queens this December, and I found that just over half had swarm cells. In my opinion when you get half your hives with swarm cells right after a major honey flow *with young queens* you have got a management issue. The brood nest is too crowded. The huge amount of pollen placed in the first super is a good indicator. I believe Scott is correct in his opinion that the bees wanted the queen to move up. Swarming is a natural thing for bees to do but can easily be hastened by crowding the brood nest during a heavy honey flow & heavy feeding of fructose. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:39:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Single vs. double Thanks, Bob. I went through another 30 hives today, and the pattern continued. There were swarm cells in just under half the hives that were single brood chambers. I must say, that in two of the double brood boxes, there were also queen cells, so I'm still half inclined to blame the mustard pollen, as per local opinion/wisdom. But another question, if the list will permit. I want more hives, and I love the method I discovered here, the "side by side split". I have limited time to devote to my bees, and rather than look through every hive with queen cells, I did side by side splits with several. Specifically, I made sure there were a few queen cells in each of the splits. Now, do any of you have opinions on whether or not the young queen I introduced in December will tear apart the queen cells in her hive, now that there is lots of space in the new brood chamber? Thanks Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:00:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Glenn Hile Subject: Honey Bound Finally got out to look at the hives today. 4/5 survivied so far. My question as a relative newbee is that there seems to be a lot of honey remaining. I overwintered in two deeps with heavy feeding last fall. Currently the second deep is still pretty much full of honey. We are several weeks away from dandelion bloom. Should I be concerned with the hive being too crowded and initiating swarming? Should I pull some of the frames and replace with empty ones? I plan to split the hives later this spring. Someone asked a couple of weeks ago about the hive top entrances offered for sale. I started two last spring and am pleased after the first season. Performed as promised with no major issues at this point. Glenn :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:09:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Honey Bound MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glenn said: I overwintered in two deeps with heavy feeding last fall. Currently the second deep is still pretty much full of honey. We are several weeks away from dandelion bloom. Should I be concerned with the hive being too crowded and initiating swarming? You did not say your area but in the U.S. if you are several weeks away from dandelion bloom you have lttle cause for swarming concern *normally*. Tim 's recently discussed swarming problem was in California in hives comming out of Almond pollination which is only a swarming concern for those with bees comming out of Almonds and those beekeepers with hives returning to the Midwest from Almonds. Plans are in place to remove crowding in hives returning to our area from Almonds. The hives should return the end of next week. >Should I pull some of the frames and replace with empty ones? On a warm spring day without wind you could go into the hive and pull excess frames of honey you will later use to make splits and make sure the queen has room to lay and the bees to expand the nest. Do not in my opinion split the brood nest by putting a couple frames of MT drawn comb in the center of the brood nest like you would in another six weeks but rather add the MT frames of drawn comb to the outside edge of the nest. The nest should always be a ball in shape until the cluster time has passed. *If* the bees are still in cluster day and night I would leave the bees alone till weather when the bees break cluster for most of the day so they can move honey into the nest during the day. Under a ideal situation the bees use the honey from surrounding combs at about the right pace for the queen to continue laying eggs. As the nest expands so does the need for honey to supply hungry larva. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Missouri :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:55:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Honey Bound >Should I be concerned with the >hive being too crowded and initiating swarming? Should I pull some of the >frames and replace with empty ones? I plan to split the hives later this >spring. Glenn Hile Too soon to worry about a honeybound nest. Wait until your hives start brooding up, and then atleast you can do something about it without hurting the colony. I would wait until you unwrap, if you wrap, or when the bees start bringing in pollen. Then relieve some of the conjestion, and save it for your splits. Dont worry about swarming until your well into your dandilion flow, that would be a good time to split your hive if necessary... Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::