From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:53:37 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.8 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF4249084 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKm5012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0404C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 83608 Lines: 1726 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:56:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: Re: Raspberries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try this link. It may give you what you need. http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/book/chap7/raspberry.html (West Texas) Mark :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:12:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: The Great Pollination Partnership MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From http://www.nappc.org/ "NAPPC and the US Botanic Garden proudly present The Great Pollination Partnership, pollinator themed exhibits featured at the USBG in Washington DC between June and October 2004. The exhibits include Dancing with Flowers: the Pollination Connection, an outdoor exhibit of... allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:09:55 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Contaminated Chinese Honey, Yet Again? >From the AP Newswire... 600 Pounds of Heroin Found in Beehives by Chinese Authorities The Associated Press Apr 14, 2004 AP-ES-04-14-04 1031EDT SHANGHAI, China (AP) - Police in southwest China seized about 600 pounds of heroin hidden in beehives, the official Xinhua News Agency reported Wednesday. Acting on a tip, authorities found the drugs Feb. 29 during a pre-dawn sweep along the mountainous border between Myanmar and China's Yunnan province, about 1,300 miles southwest of Beijing, Xinhua said. The raid was the country's largest so far this year. Four suspects from eastern China were arrested on suspicion of arranging the shipment, the report said. The heroin was found inside 63 beehives being transported by truck, Xinhua said. It was not clear if smugglers have used that technique before, although drugs have previously been found inside coconuts and baked into ceramic figurines. Yunnan borders Asia's infamous "Golden Triangle," a heroin producing region which i ncludes parts of Laos, Thailand and Burma. Heroin smuggled into China is either consumed by the country's growing numbers of drug users, or shipped to other countries. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:57:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Raspberries In-Reply-To: <200404140143.i3E1XdIb018124@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: Tim Vaughan > I need to move some hives to a couple raspberry locations this week. > If the raspberries are mature, with good soil and properly irrigated, > is there a chance for a harvest during the several month blooming > period at the rate of 1 hive per acre? Wild raspberries are a significant honey source in some areas of eastern US. But at one hive per acre I think you are pushing it, probably to near the point of vanishing. In wild areas the bees placed have many acres available for each hive. What you'll be doing is a HUGE favor for the grower, as one hive per acre is a good rate of stocking bees for maximum pollination. But the quantity of nectar that is there might give a good honey yield at one hive per five acres, is spread among more hives and the yield per hive becomes minimal. This is the basic reason why beekeepers charge for pollination. Growers tend to think - "You are getting all the honey, so you should do it free." But when you stock a crop at optimum rates for pollination, honey production becomes negligeable. A lot of times it works against beekeepers who don't understand this. A good beekeeper gets a contract for pollination and things are going well until another beekeeper comes along and (thinking he'll get some honey out of the deal) offers to do it for free or for greatly reduced rates. The grower, thinking to save money, jumps at the offer, and the relationship is broken. I can think of such a relationship right now, when a new beekeeper cut pollination rates by half , not realizing the amount of *feeding* that the bees would require on cucumbers, took a big contract away from a longtime beekeeper who was doing a good job at a fair price. Now cucumbers make nectar, but not much, and no experienced beekeeper will count the honey produced as a significant factor in the total picture. What resulted was a beekeeper with half his hives at starvation levels (most were new hives with package bees on foundation), doing very little pollination, and the grower losing tens of thousands of dollars. The previous beekeeper is not willing to return (the grower bailed out of the contract just as he was about to deliver the bees), the new beekeeper is broke, and it's questionable whether he'll be able to do it again.... So the whole system is contaminated, and no one is doing well. You would be wise to charge an appropriate fee for pollinating those raspberries, because that is what you are doing, even if raspberries produce a bit more than some other pollination crops. Don't count honey as a significant factor, because it probably isn't. If you do get a little honey, count it as an opportunity to upgrade some equipment or something like that, because it's not likely to be a consistent return year after year. If the grower won't pay, don't go. I have many times recommended Harry Whitcomb's book, "Bees are My Business." to other beekeepers. (Out of print but easy to find - run a search of used bookstores on the Internet) Harry was a smart beekeeper, and a pioneer on the use of honeybees to pollinate alfalfa seed - a good honey crop at the proper stocking for honey, but needing far more hives for optimum pollination. Certainly anyone who contemplates beekeeping as a business should make this book a *must read.* It's the clearest explanation I know, of the relationship between honey production and pollination. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:01:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Martin Subject: White eyed drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to all, Going thru my hives this spring I found one with a failed queen. She was a Buckfast I bought and introduced in the spring of 2003. The hive was full of drone brood on approximately three deep frames. After three times (two different days) extensively searching thru the hive I concluded there is no queen in the hive. I did mark the queen in September of 2003. Also in the last week of February of this year there was no brood in the hive. What I found interesting, was the white eyed drones in the hive. These drones seemed to be blind as I have read in previous posts to Bee-L. When I picked up one to bring home to photograph, they acted as if they couldn't see me reaching for them as a drone normally would. They didn't run from my fingers. Did anybody ever study these white eyed drones in depth? Can they be reproduced? Or are they a result of a laying worker? Thomas Martin Shippensburg, Pa :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:38:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Collett Subject: Apis mellifera capensis Hello all. I am keeping bees in South Africa (A.m. capensis) and have planted Canola as winter fodder for my bees. I am wondering what advice anyone could offer to me in these regards. I know that Canola may be a problem, I am just wondering what precautions must be taken. My bees have also just finished with a buckwheat crop and I was somewhat dissapointed with the honey yields compared with what I have read about. Buckwheat is not frequently grown in South Africa, and I am wondering what varieties produce the best nectar flow so that I can plant again in the spring. Many thanks Paul :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:30:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Raspberries Thanks, Dave. I read a study that said honey production is 50-100 pounds per acre over the several month blooming period of cultivated varietes, with different kinds blooming from now till the end of summer. So what you wrote is disapointing. I did charge a small fee, but with the worse drought anyone can remember looking more and more likely I've already got areas that are almost done for the year. The raspberry location is next to other cultivated crops that produce nectar and a small river with lots of flowers, so I'm confident I'll get honey, as it's similar to some of my avocado locations where I get honey all year. I've started moving hives from those areas without irrigated crops to this new area, and even though you've dashed my dreams of hundreds of pounds of creamed raspberry honey, the grower and I will still probably both benefit. Regards from a dry Central Coast of California Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:56:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Re: White eyed drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, A year or so ago eithe ABJ or Bee Culture-I think it was the latter, had an article on drones with "abnormal" eye color. I put it in quotations because eye color is genetic and other than what is considered normal is nothing more than the expression of a genetic recessive. The journal with the article had a picture of one of these drones on the cover. I will see if I can find the magazine with the article and let you know the month and year. Coleene > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:06:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: White eyed drones In-Reply-To: <000001c422fa$9a2f5c60$11e5fea9@your> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:01 AM 4/15/2004, you wrote: > What I found interesting, was the white eyed drones in the hive. >Did anybody ever study these white eyed drones in depth? Can they be >reproduced? Or are they a result of a laying worker? To quote brother adam "White eyes, which do often appear, are due to a loss of all the colour alleles." It tends to happen much more frequently in drones because they have only one set of chromosomes and thus none can be hidden by a dominant gene. White eyed workers (and queens) are possible, but highly unlikely since it would require a queen mating with a white eyed drone which seems likely because they seem to be blind and get lost on orientation flights. It does not indicate a laying worker. The same mutation can occur in drones from queen or worker laid eggs. Some more info: http://members.aol.com/glennapiar/oddball.html http://www.beesource.com/pov/usda/breeding2.htm http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/books/FrAdam/breeding/partI85en.html -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:01:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kim Flottum Subject: More Canadian Honey Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Canadian officials (CFIA) have found Buckwheat honey with chloramphenicol antibiotic. http://www.canada.com/health/story.html?id=C82BA4F9-A5D9-4562-8382-CD709 5ED3CC4 The source is not mentioned in the story. Kim Flottum Editor, BeeCulture 623 West Liberty Street Medina, Ohio 44256 V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 Fax - 330.725.5624 Kim@BeeCulture.com www.BeeCulture.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:48:38 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Collett Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kim That is somewhat odd. Is the chloramphenicol in the honey as a result of the buckwheat , or is it as a result of what these specific beekeepers were feeding their bees? I am not sure of how chloramphenicol would suddenly appear in buckwheat honey. My interest was more in the line of what types/varieties of buckwheat produce the greatest yield of nectar. It seems that genetic modification has lead to a decrease in nectar production in buckwheat and in other nectar crops. Knowing the variety that most people culture would assist me in my next planting season. Regards Paul Paul Collett Makana Meadery and Rhodes University Department of Entomology Grahamstown South Africa Apis mellifera capensis, and A.m. scutellata :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:36:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That is somewhat odd. Is the chloramphenicol in the honey as a result of > the buckwheat... Buckwheat -- the kind that is produced in Canada -- honey is *very* dark and *very* strong. It is so strong, in fact, that most people do not like pure BW honey. Pure Canadian BW smells like a hog barn and looks like well-used differential oil. However, when blended with lighter, milder at about 10% of total volume, or even less, many more people find the BW flavour enjoyable. But, even a 10% blend is still quite dark and strong. The dark colour and strong flavour offers packers an irresistable opportunity. Since any honey that is blended with BW is overpowered by the colour and flavour of BW, an inferior blending honey will not be as noticable, unless it is *really* off. Therefore, BW blends tend to contain melter honey and other seconds that come a packer's way that are otherwise hard to market for a good price. Although the Chinese produce some very nice honey, not all of their honey is pleasant or light in colour. A lot of Chinese honey has come into Canada, in recent years, and, from what i've heard, some of it was not all that light or good-tasting. Moreover, it is well-known that some of it had chloramphenicol traces. I wonder if some of it was blended with good black Manitoba 120mm buckwheat honey in hopes of hiding it's character. I have never heard of chloramphenicol in any honey that has not actually, or probably, come from China. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:44:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Collett Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Allen/All Have heard all about you ( I am a good friend of Garth Cambray - you might remember him a few years back). My buckwheat honey was not particularly dark at all, and certainly not sludgy. There was a characteristic flavour which local beekeepers loved but did not recognise, which suggests to me that it was buckwheat honey. Buckwheat honey is of particular interest to me because we make an African Mead (www.iqhilika.co.za) and buckwheat is reputedly good for brewing - not only because of the taste but because of the dark colour (the mead is not pale urine-coloured). Your answer quite nicely explains why honey may contain chloramphenicol, but I am wondering (and my knowledge of AFB is limited being South African) if the chloramphenicol was not used by beekeepers as a remedy for AFB locally as opposed to in China. Chloramphenicol would be more suitable than penicillin et al. because there has been very little resistance build-up to it. Is it not perhaps American beekeepers that are using BW honey to disguise dubious honey? Cheers Paul Paul Collett Makana Meadery/Department of Entomology, Rhodes University, South Africa www.iqhilika.co.za Apis mellifera capensis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:41:52 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems > I am wondering (and my knowledge of AFB is limited being South African) if > the chloramphenicol was not used by beekeepers as a remedy for AFB locally > as opposed to in China. Chloramphenicol would be more suitable than > penicillin et al. because there has been very little resistance build-up > to it. Is it not perhaps American beekeepers that are using BW honey to > disguise dubious honey? It is hard to imagine a beekeeper in the US or Canada gaining access to Chloramphenicol without the use of safe-cracking tools. Both countries tightly control distribution of the drug. The reason is simple - human infections that are resistant to other antibiotics are often treatable with Chloramphenicol. I socialize with a few doctors, and they all can tell tales of personal experience fighting antibiotic-resistant infections that came close to killing a patient. We can all make jokes about the nitrofuran contamination, but 5 minutes with any doctor or surgeon with daily hospital rounds should convince you that Chloramphenicol needs to be held in reserve, and used only when the alternative is death. The local hospital keeps the Chloramphenicol locked up, and to utilize it requires multiple levels of approval from senior staff. A few snippets from apparopriate web pages, first Canada: Is Chloramphenicol banned in Canada? This drug is banned for use in food-producing animals in Canada as well as in a number of other countries. However, it is approved for human use in Canada as a last resort drug in the treatment of life-threatening, severe bacterial infections where no other treatment is available. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/vetdrugs-medsvet/chloramphenicol_e.html#4 ...and, the US: Chloramphenicol should only be used for serious infections in which other medicines do not work... Chloramphenicol is available only with your doctor's prescription, in the following dosage forms: Oral Capsules (U.S. and Canada) Oral suspension (U.S.) Parenteral Injection (U.S. and Canada) http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/uspdi/202127.html jim (Beekeeping is sometimes a religious experience. Sadly, the religion appears to be Calvinism.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:02:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My buckwheat honey was not particularly > dark at all, and certainly not sludgy. The word 'buckwheat' seems to be used to describe several different plants in different regions. Maybe not, but I do know that the 'buckwheat' honey from California is not much like the 'buckwheat' honey from Western Canada. > There was a characteristic flavour > which local beekeepers loved but did not recognise, which suggests to me > that it was buckwheat honey. Buckwheat honey is of particular interest to > me because we make an African Mead (www.iqhilika.co.za) and buckwheat is > reputedly good for brewing - not only because of the taste but because of > the dark colour (the mead is not pale urine-coloured). Our buckwheat mead was some of the best I've made. The floral character came through more than I have noticed in the honey. > Your answer quite nicely explains why honey may contain chloramphenicol, but > I am wondering (and my knowledge of AFB is limited being South African) if > the chloramphenicol was not used by beekeepers as a remedy for AFB locally > as opposed to in China. Chloramphenicol would be more suitable than > penicillin et al. because there has been very little resistance build-up to > it. Is it not perhaps American beekeepers that are using BW honey to > disguise dubious honey? AFAIK, chloramphenicol is not used to prevent/cure AFB, but for other purposes. Whether it would work on AFB or not, I do not know, but it was not in the lists of potential control antibiotics that were made up when the USDA and Ag Canada were looking for a replacement for OTC to deal with rAFB. My understanding was that they listed all the drugs that were at all effective against AFB and went from there. My understanding has been that the chloramphenicol, unlike the nitrofurans, was introduced into honey incidentally due to its use for some other purpose. Does anyone have the real facts on this? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:15:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Tooley Subject: Wild Buckwheat In-Reply-To: <027b01c42439$29b04450$3cb85ad1@Pegasus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > The word 'buckwheat' seems to be used to describe several different plants > in different regions. Maybe not, but I do know that the 'buckwheat' honey > from California is not much like the 'buckwheat' honey from Western > Canada. > > 'Buckwheat' honey from California is made from a wild plant commonly called wild buckwheat.There are quite a few species and since most of it comes from the southern part of the state I am not familiar with which ones are the nectar sources.There is one species here in the north that I consider a good nectar source.It produces a light mild honey.True domestic buckwheat is something else altogether.This link shows the wild buckwheat plants. http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/gallery_page.cgi?earl=gallery.cgi&category=genus&classes=all&sort=scisort&txtparm=Eriogonum&wetland=all&origin=all&results=thumbnails&pagenum=1 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:54:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Winter bees and hive floors In-Reply-To: <001901c42168$dd2a2a60$b2e9d518@newdell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Comments from those who have thoughts on the following would be most welcome! At last, hives have been removed from their indoor wintering facility and moved on to a sheltered area of ground. Each colony is being quickly looked at by lifting the hive body to an approx. 45° tilt and observing the number of combs covered by bees. Once this has been noted, the body is lifted on to a clean floor, allowing the over wintered one to be removed. This latter floor is then scraped to remove accumulated debris - the amount varying from hardly any to a piled of mixed semi decomposed bees, wax bits, particles of crystallized honey etc. What follows is a new experience to me : Several colonies had floors covered by freshly dead bees (presumed so due to the colouring of the cuticle, absence of other debris intermingled with bodies, no apparent compaction of the pile) - they looked as if they had just fallen. The piles were 2 - 3 cm deep and covered most of the floor area. So why are these bees there? Are they just the rest of the over wintered bees that finally came to their mortal end - a collective die out? Are they bees that have secumed to a thermal shock? - having been held in a room at 5°C during the winter, and once out in the "open" again, they couldn't cope. Temperatures have varied from 6-7°C during daylight hours, down to -7°C at night. Food is not absent in the brood box. Flight has taken place, with defecation liberally performed. Normal staining on the hive, with few dead bees present in front of the entrances. Also, those colonies that show this phenomenon have 3-4 frames of bees remaining in place. After all my European beekeeping experience, this Canadian happening suggests again that where you are governs what you see! Regards, Peter Darlingford, Manitoba 49°15' N/ 98°20' W :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:09:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems Comments: cc: Paul Collett MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Paul Collett wrote, "I am a good friend of Garth Cambray - you might remember him a few years back." Yes! Many people have asked about Garth, but he just seemed to disappear. Whatever happened to Garth? He is missed on BEE-L. I hope he's well. Sincerely, Aaron Morris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:44:58 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Theft and Tracking of hives moved. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear beekeeper friends! While sitting here working on the newest Bidata with manipulation of supers : http://apimo.dk/supers_page.htm I have been thinking about this theft problem that some of the beekeepers have and if it is possible to prevent it or possible to recover by using some of the present technical possibilities. Jerry's project with mu tags is a solution but limited to recover items that is within reach of a reader, means that you have to suspect that the item you see could be yours and then if the tag is read you could claim that it belongs to you. James have a tracing system and this I find interesting, because if things are moved and no more in place where you think they should be, then the satellite system could track it and give a close picture of where they were moved to. so maybe a combination could be possible. The satellite system to track the hives and the items tag to claim the right. I think a Service agreement could be the solution to limit the loose of property. I imagine this: I place hives on a spot and ask for a satellite track print out. Then when I recon that my hives are gone I ask for a new Satellite track printout and can then go to the spot where my hives was moved to. I now can claim my rights by scanning the build in items tag, and take action. Just a thought. Best regards Jorn Johanesson Only Multilingual software for beekeeping on the net. With integrated update facility hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software since 1997 home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:00:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Winter bees and hive floors Peter Dillon wrote: "Several colonies had floors covered by freshly dead bees (presumed so>due to the colouring of the cuticle, absence of other debris intermingled with bodies, no apparent compaction of the pile) - they looked as if they had just fallen. The piles were 2 - 3 cm deep and covered most of the floor area. So why are these bees there?" This sounds to me like the normal mortality of overwintering bees while in cluster. Perhaps the reason that they are found where they are in the amounts you have described is that the hive cleaning and carrying off of the dead responsibilities have not occured due to winter confinement and the lack of a lower exit of the hive so that the dead could be picked up and carried off out of the hive by worker bees. I am interested in hearing additional comments since I live in a more moderate climate here in the Carolinas. Regards, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:59:02 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Collett Subject: Re: Winter bees and hive floors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Several colonies had floors covered by freshly dead bees (presumed so due to the colouring of the cuticle, absence of other debris intermingled with bodies, no apparent compaction of the pile) - they looked as if they had just fallen. The piles were 2 - 3 cm deep and covered most of the floor area." Hi Peter. I had a similar experience with my bees a few weeks ago. The hives looked like they had lost about 20% of their population, and those 20% were all in the bottom of the box and out the front. This happened just after I had moved my bees some distance by vehicle. It seems that the bees engorged on honey because of the stress and developed a case of hyperglycaemia. I now spray water into the hives every 100km I travel to try and prevent this. Could this be the case with you also? You talk about moving away from your winter apiary? regards Paul Paul Collett Makana Meadery/Department of Entomology, Rhodes University www.iqhilika.co.za Apis mellifera capensis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:49:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Winter bees and hive floors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Dillon wrote: "Several colonies had floors covered by freshly dead bees (presumed so>due > to the colouring of the cuticle, absence of other debris > intermingled with bodies, no apparent compaction of the pile) - they > looked as if they had just fallen. The piles were 2 - 3 cm deep and > covered most of the floor area. So why are these bees there?" Some years I find a colony or two where the bees die off fast once the stress of brood rearing really gets going. Sometimes there are bees not quite dead on the pile - still twitching . The colony dies out completely over the next 2 to 3 weeks - or I kill it off first to avaid risk of spreading. I attribute this to virus - but the cost of getting bees tested just for academic purposes (there is no cure if it is a virus) has stopped me verifying this. I have never been able to link the virus attack in a few hives apparently at random to any causal factor. Tell us if the high mortality continues or was a once off. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:01:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems In-Reply-To: <097e01c4242d$ec6ed030$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: >>I am wondering (and my knowledge of AFB is limited being South African) if >>the chloramphenicol was not used by beekeepers as a remedy for AFB locally >>as opposed to in China. Chloramphenicol would be more suitable than >>penicillin et al. because there has been very little resistance build-up >>to it. Is it not perhaps American beekeepers that are using BW honey to >>disguise dubious honey? >> >> > >It is hard to imagine a beekeeper in the US or Canada gaining access to >Chloramphenicol without the use of safe-cracking tools. Both countries >tightly control distribution of the drug. The reason is simple - human >infections that are resistant to other antibiotics are often treatable with >Chloramphenicol. > There is another reason - Chloramphenicol, in certain susceptable individuals causes aplastic anemia. Nasty - and irreversable. It is also a carcinogen. The FDA feel that there is no safe level in food products. And it is more available than you think . . . . though I agree - it is not readuily available in a form most beeks would find usable. Part of the reason we like the stuff for nasty infections is not because it is a particularly big gun, it bacteriostatic in most instances (and there are bacteriocidal bigg guns out there) - but it penetrates all kinds of tissues and lesions - very well - something many antibiotics do not . Keith :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:22:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FWIW, Shortly after I had penned, “Transfer of Antibiodic Effectiveness from China to Americas and Europe”, http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi- bin/wa?A2=ind0212C&L=bee-l&P=R184 , a very experienced and knowledgeable beekeeper contacted me offline and advised me that chloramphenicol is used in China for quite another purpose and not as a treatment for either American Foulbrood or European Foulbrood. It appears that since honey bees frequently visit certain sources of waste water to take up moisture that are more frequently found in certain parts of China and other less developed regions of the World than here in the United States and Canada, chloramphenicol is necessary to use as a "weapon" for the survival of honey bee larvae. Since then I have learned from two different sources additional sources that the above statement has a fairly accurate chance of being true. Perhaps by posting, this may bring out into the open the unvarnished truth about an extremely small percentage of the whole that are practicing such methods of treatment in certain parts of the world, and I am told that it isn’t just China. I certainly would like to know quotable facts from more than just the horses mouth. Regards, Chuck Norton Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:45:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Tulip poplar/hive concentration In-Reply-To: <408209EC.3030903@mts.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Here's a question I've always wondered about. How many hives will an oak and poplar forest support? The forest extends well over 3 miles in all directions from the apiary. The forest is at least 25% poplar. The remainder mostly maple and oak. The flow is, of course, predominately from the poplar. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:07:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used In-Reply-To: <200404190122.i3J1I4IX026997@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chuck, What do you mean by the word "weapon"? Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:03:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Winter bees and hive floors In-Reply-To: <200404181300.i3ICfaJB010669@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chuck, Paul and Robin, To follow up a little: The bees appear to have fallen from the cluster over a very short period of time, since they were all in the same condition. I presume that the deaths occurred after the colonies were moved outside - a distance of 50 metres. Entrances are at the bottom of the brood box - reduced to 3cm* 1cm in size. Only a few colonies show damp debris on the floor - the others are just littered with the normal winter debris. If the deaths were characteristic of all or most hives then I would suspect inability to remove dead bees in general due to climatic or other conditions. This is not the case. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:29:15 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Curtis Crowell Subject: Re: Contaminants in Honey There has been some discussion among some of my beekeeper friends about the contamination issue, and I believe the American Honey Producers have considered some kind of testing program. In light of this, I was stunned to learn about a Kansas beef producer that sought to satisfy it's Japanese customers by installing a lab to test each carcass for mad cow disease. Japan has closed off all import of US beef, as have some other countries. All was set to go, when the US Department of Agriculture shut down the privately funded testing program (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/18/national/nationalspecial2/18COW.html), forcing the producer to lay people off since the Japanese market is now closed to him. It appears this is based on an old 1913 law, but the more immediate cause was pressure by large US meat packers that don't want anyone "breaking ranks" and testing for mad cow to satisfy the Japanese or the Europeans. Oddly enough, as the article points out, the US recently took steps to allow certification of organic foods that would appear, at least, to support a producer intending to provide additional quality control certifications. It certainly appears that any movement by US beekeepers to provide similar testing might run afoul of these same legal and political influences. What has happened to the land of the free and the brave.....? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:47:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used Peter Dillon wrote: "What do you mean by the word 'weapon'?" Hi Peter, I am not a biologist, microbiologist, or medical doctor; nor do I know specifically all types of bacteria that in this case are "targeted" with the use of chloramphenicol. Perhaps someone else on the BEE-L more knowledgeable and qualified than myself could enlighten us about such bacteria that are harmful to humans, adult honey bees and larvae alike and why chloramphenicol is specifically used and not tetracycline. I tried to politely paint the source of moisture the bees pick up and carry back to their hives and why chloramphenicol is used without going into specific detail or beyond the scope of my knowledge. As you know in rural areas honey bees will sometimes be found in barn yards taking up water contaminated with animal waste; I was not writing about barnyards and animal waste in my previous posting, chloramphenicol is used to kill bacteria found in human waste that is taken back to the hive by foraging workers searching for liquids, and it is my understanding that the same bacteria is harmful to honey bee larvae and to a lessor extent honey bee adults. Chuck Norton Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:03:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems Comments: To: jmccool@inspection.gc.ca, gdaniels@inspection.gc.ca, chc-ccm@telusplanet.net, ballarda@telusplanet.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Bee-L members: I read with interest your comments about More Canadian Honey Problems. If a reader who is not familiar with the labeling regulations, he would assume that the Canadian Honey having problems with antibiotic contamination. This information does not reflect the reality of the situation. To correct this information, I would suggest to use Antibiotics Contamination of Canadian Honey Blended with Foreign honey. This will be specific to point out the source of the problem (blending with foreign honey). This is unfortunate situation that the label does not reflect the percentage of blending of various sources of honey in the jar. I am copying this e-mail to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to ensure that they take the responsibility to clarify this information to the public. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:49:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems Comments: To: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." To the List, Medhat has made IMO The CRITICAL STATEMENTS by writing, "If a reader who is not familiar with the labeling regulations, he would assume that the Canadian Honey having problems with antibiotic contamination...." and..."This is (an)unfortunate situation that the label does not reflect the percentage of blending of various sources of honey in the jar." (IMO)Such circumstances as that pointed out by Dr. Nasr is exactly the case with the general public and the press. The public does not know beans about labeling requirements and I dare say that most do not read the label any farther than the word "HONEY"; and, they rely upon the Canadian Food Inspection Agency in Canada and the Food and Drug Administration and the USDA here in the USA to make sure that the packer is providing a healthy food product, honey. Thing is that the packers do not want to put the percentage of foreign honey on their labels as it would be easier for the customer to see and understand that there is foreign honey in those jars. One good example: Sue Bee has labeling on their jars of "North American Honey", that says "may contain honey from Canada and the United States"; take that to the bank North American Beekeepers! Cheers! -Chuck Norton (Whose 'Grandpappy' once said, "If you let the folks in Washington listen to the people, and take dollars from the lobbyist, Congress will soon have a deaf ear".) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:05:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used In-Reply-To: <200404191247.i3JBu3KN012649@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chuck , So what you are saying is that the chloramphenicol is being used to treat hives that have bees which have been collecting water that is polluted with human excrement. And - That this water causes problems for the bee larvae! Or, that honey harvested from such hives will be contaminated with bacteria from human faecal material - and this antibiotic removes the possibility of disease transmission to humans. My questions are: 1. Is this material being used to primarily protect humans - covering up unhygienic production and harvesting conditions? 2. Is this material primarily being used to bees/ larvae against infectious material contacted in unhygienic production and harvesting conditions? It would be so pleasant for so genuine info. with solid references behind it to appear and help clear things. Somebody, somewhere must know why this material is presenting itself, and the real reason for it use. Is there a "news" blackout on the subject? - Any person from China prepared to comment? Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:29:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Medhat, May I suggest that your suggestion - "I would suggest to use Antibiotics Contamination of Canadian Honey Blended with Foreign honey" may read better as: "Foreign honey, contaminated with Antibiotic material which has (then) been blended with Canadian Honey". I suppose it depends on the proportion of each honey and its source. At what proportion do the labelling requirements deem a pot of honey to be labelled as: One of Canadian honey blended with Foreign honey, or, Foreign honey blended with Canadian honey! Regards, Peter. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:43:53 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: raspberries honey In-Reply-To: <+jP3fkCgpScAFwfP@kilty.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For Tim Vaughan: I just received a package of publications about pollen analysis and honey for Quebec honey plants. Here are some numbers you may already have (my free translations from French articles). References are not new but may be interesting : - Raspberries is a very melliferous plant : 30 mg of nectar par flower and per day with 70% sugar content (1) - Its pollen is rich in nitrogen, element used in proteins (2) - Yield : 51 to 100 kg honey/ha (3) In this article, author says its melliferous potential varies with climate, of course, and could be under-estimated in Quebec. Major apiaries here sell raspberries honey, I guess harvested during pollination contracts, although I more and more doubt about floral origin indicated on labels. (1): Marie-José Feller - La productivité de nos plantes mellifères, L'Abeille, mars 1984, p15. (2):Maurizio, A et I Grafl, 1980. Das Trachtpflanzenbuch. Ekrenwirth (3): Crane, E., 1975. Honey - A comprehensive survey. Heineman, London Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Dialoguez en direct avec vos amis grâce à Yahoo! Messenger !Téléchargez Yahoo! Messenger sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:21:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter said: Somebody, somewhere must know why this material is presenting itself, and the real reason for it use. Is there a "news" blackout on the subject? - Any person from China prepared to comment? The response from China has been so far (I am told) is that they do not know how the chloramphenicol got in their product. A question which comes to my mind is how long has honey contaminated with chloramphenicol been sold on the world market? The chloramphenicol was found by accident I have been told. What we do know about the way the beekeeping industry works in China is all drugs used to medicate/treat China hives are provided by the government . In my opinion the chloramphenicol was passed out to China beekeepers by the government with instructions for use for a specific reason as the chloramphenicol *marker* has been found in almost all (if not all China honey) I have been told. The Chloramphenicol *marker* has been a big help for the people looking for people trying to ship China honey into the U.S. without paying tariffs. In my opinion the finding of chloramphenicol in honey is a big reason why U.S. honey prices remain at record levels today. China is by far the largest producer of honey in the world and past history has shown is willing to sell below market price/cost of production to capture the world market. Many U.S. packers are afraid (maybe for the first time) of foreign honey. They have said to me they would like to buy only U.S. honey and run only product of the U.S.A.on the label. The problem in the U.S is the U.S. beekeepers only are able to produce about half of the honey consumed in the U.S.. Jerry Brown (Richard Adee family) has urged commercial beekeepers in the U.S. to help and not hinder new sideliners wanting to move into the commercial beekeeping ranks. Jerry believes if U.S. beekeepers can produce enough honey so as the packers will not have to look other places we can cut the historical river of Chinese honey coming into the U.S. down to a trickle. Jerry Brown and I talked many times for long periods at the Kansas meeting (March 2004) about a variety of industry problems. At first the meeting was awkward as our groups (AHPA & ABF) are supposed to be on the outs but we both quickly realized we were both beekeepers and wanting only the best for the beekeeping industry. I really believe if we could set up a picnic every year with both groups invited and we all sat around and visited for a few hours about beekeeping the feud between our two organizations would disappear. Time to set aside our differences and the past bad blood between the two groups (AHPA & ABF) and move on for the good of the beekeeping industry! I proudly consider Jerry Brown (secretary AHPA 2004) a friend to me and a friend to the beekeeping industry! Sincerely, Bob Harrison long time ABF member BH/ETH :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:44:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard Goetze Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used Chloramphenicol is primarily bacteriostatic. It inhibits bacterial protein synthesis. It has a broad spectrum of activity against gram-positive and gram-negative cocci and bacilli (very interesting to me is its activity against anaerobes.) Chloramphenicol is used in the treatment of typhoid fever caused by Salmonella typhi infection in some places. In Canada it is approved for human use as a last resort drug in the treatment of life-threatening, severe bacterial infections where no other treatment is available. Perhaps the Chinese use it to try and limit the spread of Salmonella typhi by bees that use water contaminated by nightsoil or sewage. It would be surprising to me, however, if using Chloramphenicol, as they appear to do, would have any benefit to those who consume the honey. The usual dose in human adults is 12.5 mg per kg body weight every six hours. At the levels available in the contaminated honey, the dose is not likely therapeutic or prophylactic. I don't think it will control S. typhoid in the honey, either, if that's their intention. The broad spectrum activity of Chloramphenicol may control most bacteria that potentially infect honey bees. Perhaps the Chinese have found Chloramphenicol works where the rest fail on bacterial diseases of honey bees. Another speculative reason, I think, for using Chloramphenicol would be some sort disease prophylaxis aimed at Clostridium spp., (anearobic gram positive, spore forming rods that can cause spectacular sudden death, necrotizing and ulcerating diseases!). I have no idea if it would work on actively growing Clostridium cultures or not. Certainly spores will not be harmed. I don't test for sensitivity of bacterial isolates to Chloramphenicol or Florfenicol (a related antibiotic). None of my clients have ever asked. It would be very interesting to see how it measures up. Perhaps Chloramphenicol is used on the plants the bees forage. Erwinia amylovora is a species of bacteria that causes fire blight in pome fruits (pears, etc.). In the past Streptomycin was used. Whenever antibiotics are overused (especially at low or uncontrolled doses when spraying trees), bacterial resistance develops, as has happened with Streptomycin. So someone thought, let's try Chloramphenicol to control fire blight? Lastly, if Chloramphenicol is used in fresh water fish ponds (fish ponds are very common in China), are the bees exposed when using the ponds for their watering needs? Richard Goetze :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:30:11 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used Chuck said: > I was not writing about barnyards and animal waste in my previous > posting, chloramphenicol is used to kill bacteria found in human > waste that is taken back to the hive by foraging workers searching > for liquids, and it is my understanding that the same bacteria is > harmful to honey bee larvae and to a lessor extent honey bee adults. I always wondered why Chinese honey had its distinctive "flavor profile" (translation: utterly unpalatable unless blended with honey from elsewhere) and now I think we can all understand exactly where the flavor comes from. But given the well-hyped antimicrobial activity inherent in honey, I'm confused as to which bacteria from biological human waste (translation: open cesspools), or from any other source, would be nasty and persistent enough to be able to kill larvae when fed to the larvae in "brood food". And if this bacteria can survive exposure to honey and be present in honey in quantity sufficient to kill enough larvae to be a widespread problem, what risks might this bacteria pose to humans who eat the honey? I do know that people in developing nations start to lead much longer and much happier lives when taught to fetch water upstream of where they bathe, and bathe upstream of where they dispose of human wastes. So, which is worse - chloramphenicol in honey, or the bacteria that prompted the use of chloramphenicol? While honey tends to be evaporated down from nectar, and would not have any water added by the bees, one must recall that bees cool the hive by collecting water, spreading it among empty cells, and then fanning (bees invented the "swamp cooler"). The water, if contaminated, will evaporate, and leave the bacteria in the cell, where honey will later be stored. One can only hope that the bacteria dehydrate and die when the water evaporates, but the official list of "famous last words of scientists" includes the following: Microbiologist: "These bacteria cannot live outside this growth media..." Field Biologist: "Don't worry - they never attack humans..." jim (Bacteria are the only culture some people have) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:27:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard wrote: Perhaps Chloramphenicol is used on the plants the bees forage. Erwinia amylovora is a species of bacteria that causes fire blight in pome fruits (pears, etc.). In the past Streptomycin was used. We ruled out the above hypothesis as the single cause due to the chloramphenicol contamination being so widespread but the above could have been the source for some of the contamination. I was told by people looking into the problem that the Chinese said "perhaps the contamination was from growers using chloramphenicol on plants for various reasons". I had never heard of the contamination explanation put forth by Chuck before but the explanation sounds reasonable and would account for the Chinese wanting to cover up the real reason for the chloramphenicol use for reasons brought up by Jim Fischer. I have used Streptomycin in my orchard several times for severe fire blight. I believe the last time was in 1993 when we had all the flooding and constant rain. I only found a single source in the Kansas City area and the Streptomycin was expensive to use. Streptomycin is the only antibiotic I know of which will work on severe fire blight available without getting the product from a doctor or veterinarian. I suspect my veterinarian could supply chloramphenicol in bulk *but not sure*. Many antibiotics are available from veternarians if you can convince the vet the use is warrented. A paper trail always exists as it should be. If chloramphenicol was used for fire blight the use would be before fruit set so perhaps the use might be approved on fruit trees in areas which had Streptomycin resistant fire blight. Don't know! I believe if we were allowed to look at records in China that a paper trail exists for every amount of chloramphenicol produced in China exactly like the paper trail which exists for chloramphenicol produced in the U.S.. China honey brokers are many times not in direct contact with the honey producers so you can see the problem with getting to the heart of the chlor amphenicol contamination problem. Sincerely, Bob Harrison BH/ETH :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:13:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: William Farler Subject: China In-Reply-To: <200404210403.i3L2TuN5000622@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >China is by far the largest producer of honey in the world and past history >has shown is willing to sell below market price/cost of production to capture the world market. I don't claim to be an expert here but I'm not sure this is really the situation and we may see the situation change over the next 5-10 years. One reason may be currency exchange rates. The US Govt. has accused the Chinese of keeping the Yuan artificially low in order to drive their export engine. This keeps foreign goods expensive in China and encourages local manufacturing. A second reason is labor. A good factory job in china will pay about 1,000 yuan per month, or about $120 month/ $1450 year. That would put them in the top 20% of wage earners in China. Agricultural wages are surely much lower. What % of production costs are labor? I am guessing quite a lot. Even woodenware reflects some labor costs. After fuel, trucks, syrup and wood about all that's left is labor and chemicals. The Chinese apparently feel they can save on chemicals by using REALLY strong stuff. Chloramphenical is a last resort, high power chemical. The bright spot in the picture is the Chinese economy is growing at an astounding 8% per year. Wages are rising, new jobs (unfortunately massive pollution is growing). The emerging class of people with disposable income are prime consumers of Chinese honey. Maybe we should be spending our marketing dollars to develop the Chinese taste for Honey. If a growing middle class develops a taste for honey Chinese exports could become imports as wealthier consumers opt for taste and health (sic) rather than 'cheaper' sweetener. We could help ourselves by pushing for greater labeling disclosure on sources of honey. Here in Texas a large packer pushes their honey as 'Texas Honey' but the label lists a dozen countries outside of Texas. :-) If it is mostly foreign it might be noticed by consumers - some of whom might buy on more than price - which could drive premiums for local product in the packer channel - a move I'm sure they would oppose in ignorance. Fact is differentiation in a market drives better pricing - when a market lacks differentiation all suppliers drive each other to lower margins. If we could differentiate American honey I think it would drive greater revenue for packers and producers. Just one persons opinion. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:07:46 -0400 Reply-To: kgbenson@sc.rr.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: China MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Original Message ----- From: William Farler Date: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:13 am Subject: [BEE-L] China After fuel, trucks, syrup and wood > about all that's left is labor and chemicals. The Chinese > apparently feel they can save on chemicals by using REALLY strong > stuff. Chloramphenical is a last resort, high power chemical. Chloramphenicol, while being held in reserve for particular infections and circumstances, is not particularly "strong." In fact, the term strong is hard to apply to antibiotics as the one antibiotic might be considered a big gun in some instances, and completely ineffective in others. The question is “does it kill a particular bacterium at levels that the host can tolerate?” not “is it strong.” One should not take the idea that because it is used only in particular circumstances, and therefore "special" to mean that it is inherently expensive. The stuff has been around a long time and may be simply being made in huge quantities over there and therefore inexpensive. Chlormaphenicols’ main attractant is that it gets into all kinds of tissues very effectively. One of the main detractors is that nasty aplastic anemia thing. So, it is reserved for susceptible infections in weird places that are poorly treated with other things – not because it is particularly “strong." In fact it was once a common drug used for upper respiratory tract infections in kids. Now there are better, safer choices. Honestly, given the possible scenarios people are listing as to why one might choose this drug, and there would be better choices out there - they might be more expensive. Depends on what the local pharmaceutical industry over there is set up to do. They may make it by the tanker load. Personally I suspect it is simply cheap and available in that setting. So, it gets used. Keith :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:31:48 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used > I believe if we were allowed to look at records in China that a > paper trail exists for every amount of chloramphenicol produced > in China exactly like the paper trail which exists for > chloramphenicol produced in the U.S.. The only records one could expect to find in China in regard to this activity would be criminal records. Its not even legal to use chloramphenicol in China since 1999. http://www.seafood.com/news/current/88631.html "...The European ban on Chinese shrimp and prawns was announced last January after inspectors found chloramphenicol, an antibiotic banned in Europe, the United States and, since 1999, in China as well. A Chinese reporter who traveled to Fujian and Guangxi, two southern coastal provinces with large amounts of aquaculture, found banned substances were widely available. 'The production, sales and use of antibiotics for fish breeding is out of control,' a report by China's official Xinhua News Agency said in December. 'Even veterinarians are selling it.' Though China banned chloramphenicol in 1999, several hundred factories were producing it in 2000, the Xinhua report said. Shrimp farmers sometimes don't know what substances are banned and complain of getting little guidance from authorities. When disease breaks out - which is not uncommon because of China's short production cycles and high-density farming - farmers often throw in whatever antibiotic or treatment is available." But are beekeepers mere prawns (sorry, "pawns") in this game of shady characters selling antibiotics from the trunks of cars as "miracle cures" for epidemic shrimp death problems? If many of China's beekeepers also have small-scale shrimp ponds, or are near shrimp ponds, this would be a valid scenario in which the husbandry of the shrimp might well result in a contamination of a water source used by the hive. The only problem with this scenario is that we still lack a mechanism to explain how evaporated nectar from plants (honey) would become contaminated by the use of contaminated water by the colony. I am pretty sure that bees do not add gathered water to honey, but instead, work hard to evaporate the water out of the nectar. :) jim (All beekeeping is local, except on Bee-L, where all beekeeping is international.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:55:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: fighting workers In-Reply-To: <001a01c42169$441f4840$b2e9d518@newdell> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <001a01c42169$441f4840$b2e9d518@newdell>, Lloyd Spear writes >I have now been uniting in this manner for many years and have never seen >any fighting. Thank you. I wonder if our near A.m.m. bees are less tolerant of such direct uniting. I once united a daughter colony to its parent, minus old queen, as soon as she showed a good laying pattern only to find a lot of dead bees. I also united a non-daughter after a month of resting over mesh (full area) over the colony she was to be united with, also without queen and found some fighting. I do unite nuclei without paper to queenless colonies giving them a few minutes of light and a good space between the parts without problems. Otherwise I trust newspaper. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:42:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Milt Lathan Subject: Shop-vac for bee vacuum? I confess to working for days to capture One swarm. They have adopted a 15ft pine tree about 40 feet from my two hives. They aren't even that high the problem is the tree is on a hillside (It's actually a mountain but it's in a neighborhood of nice homes) On two attempts now, I have scraped/knocked handfuls of bees into a medium super (all foundation and ONE frame of honey/pollen) near the base of the tree, put the top on it and walked away assuming the swarm would settle in. No joy. At this point, I am willing to settle for just getting the bees to combine with another hive elsewhere. I noticed in the archives, at least one person has used a shopvac as a bee-vac. If I can find a long enough extension cord - I may try this next. Any tips? BTW- on day two I sprayed the bees with sugar-water because they were getting testy - it must be too cool for them to find another spot(?). :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:45:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Milt Lathan Subject: Shop-vac for bee vacuum? Thanks to the list - I have received word that our local group, the PSBA, has access to a proven Bee-Vac. I am going to follow-up on that lead. Thanks! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::