From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:51:38 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-82.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SARE_FRAUD_X3,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEF049077 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDdDKR012145 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0406C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 100289 Lines: 2305 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:19:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Marc Hoffman Subject: dysentery, nosema cause and effect In-Reply-To: <000e01c45249$583d5040$ca939ac2@haris8cjgnhodj> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sorry, I don't understand the post below. Would you please explain this in more detail? Thanks. At 03:54 PM 6/14/04, Roger White wrote: > >>There are many possible causes for the dysentery symptoms. A very > common and significant cause can be Nosema disease<< >I'm sorry but I don't agree with this - dysentery can cause Nosema but >dysentery is NOT caused by Nosema - this is a very common mistake that has >somehow become established in beekeeping circles. >Nosema is present in most colonies, an outbreak of dysentery can turn it >into a very serious problem. >Best regards >Roger White >Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:27:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: How do you tell if you have African bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Three or four years ago a local beekeeper here in Anchorage was checking one of his hives toward the end of the season. As I recall he was simply going to pull the cover off to take a quick look inside so he didn't smoke them. Bees, being bees, had cemented the cover on with propolis. As he was lifting on the cover, the box itself came loose and the bees went berserk. They boiled out of the hive stung him, his dog, the neighbor, the neighbor’s dog. The beekeeper called an old timer beekeeper for some assistance. The neighbor called the police. The police and the old timer got there at about the same time. The old guy who came over is one of those who has kept bees for as long as recorded time. He takes pride in the fact that he has never owned a bee suit, although his usual attire is a pair of dark coveralls, and he doesn’t wear a veil. This time he had to put his veil on. Eventually the bees went back into their hive. The police, I guess, talked to everyone in the vicinity and left after things calmed down. Fortunately, no one called any of the community TV stations, which would have provided some unwanted publicity to the local beekeeping establishment. These bees had been well behaved all summer to my knowledge. They were shipped into the state, but I don’t know from where in the Lower 48. A discussion took place a few weeks back on the Yahoo BioBee group and on Beesource.com about a person who said she was allergic to bee stings and had in the past been hospitalized for being stung. She’d lived in the community for several years. A new next-door neighbor just moved in and wanted to set up hives on his property. The woman of course was terrified. Much of the discussion that took place was about how there would be virtually no chance for the woman to be stung. I think it ended up in court and the beekeeper was allowed to place bees on his property. I keep bees in my backyard. Keeping up to four bee hives within the city limits of Anchorage is legal, but I still have that concern.... Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:59:23 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Nosema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marc Hoffman wrote, >>Sorry, I don't understand the post below. Would you please explain = this in more detail? Thanks.<< Marc, As I said, a test of most colonies will show some nosema spores present, = so some of the bees are infected all the time. If we have conditions = that cause the bees to defecate in the hives, like dysentery or the = beekeeper killing bees during manipulation, then the house bees that = have to clean up the mess will also become infected, when the number of = bees infected reaches a certain level it starts slowing the colony down, = the queen may also become infected may even die. So, dysentery is not = caused by nosema, but usually results in an increase in the number of = bees that are carrying nosema spores and has lead to the misconception = that nosema causes dysentery. The two conditions are closely linked, = but only as above. Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:46:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: How do you tell if you have African bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick said: These ugly, ugly bees came from Georgia. Because you have seen fit to point the finger in a certain direction please send a sample to one of the two places which were posted and report back. Many excellent queen raising operations are in Georgia. To be fair I have heard reports of aggressive bees coming from the other two main queen rearing areas also (and have even before the entrance of AHB). The cases tested were not AHB but other cases I do not know about might have been. Maybe a member of the bee lab will comment? The possibility of a AHB drone mating with a European queen is always a possibility. In fact research has shown in an area of known AHB the AHB mating is the most probable! Georgia is not an area of known AHB (at least not yet) . I believe what you are seeing (and will be shown by the testing but I could be wrong) is a hive of bees with the combination of aggressive genes which researchers have found to be the same ????? or at least very similar to the aggressive genes the AHB carry. True AHb as reported by Dr. Orley Taylor ( five years research on the Mexico border) and others carry other undesirable to beekeepers genes such as: 1. running on frames 2. sending out many swarms 3.absconding 4.pseudo queens Although rare I see a hive or two similar to what you describe every so often. Mostly with supercedure queens. Color has little to do with their aggressiveness. I have kept aggressive hives around in remote areas before requeening if I needed the hive production. I had a couple side by side on the same pallet which were yellow bees and like the hive Rick describes. Smoke only made the situation worse and even removing the lid caused an uproar. They produced a large honey crop and then I requeened by dividing into three nucs. Strong two queen hives with populations approaching 100,000 bees at the peak of the season can react very quickly to venom so a couple sting incident can escalate fast. One reason combining at the right time so population does not increase past the time the emerging bees are needed for the flow is important as hives with huge populations can be hard to work after the honey flow is over and the floral sources are gone . Bob Ps. I will be out of the state for a few days but will answer email on my return. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:32:35 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Supplemental feeding : Brewers Yeast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > After obtaining the yeast, I then heard a lot of stories about if you > feed the "wrong" kind of yeast, your bees could develop dysentery. > > I have a certificate of analysis for the brewers yeast... I see that you are not getting much response, possibly because we've discussed this here on BEE-L before, and possibly because it is not easy to say for sure from reading a label. The best recommendation for a product is that other beekeepers have used a particular brand successfully over a period of time. Although reading a label is helpful, the only real test is in the field. There are several things to avoid. Avoid yeasts that have the grower medium, like corn, still in with it, and avoid burnt yeast. Brewers yeast from breweries, if 'spray-dried' or otherwise turned to fine powder without overheating and torula yeasts have been used successfully. Usually a high protein content on the label -- over 40% -- is a good sign of purity. Don't worry about the high protein level. Just be sure to use lots of sugar -- 50% or more in your patty. See also http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/nutrition.htm http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/pollen/default.htm http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/nutrition2.htm allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:51:44 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Supplemental feeding : Brewers Yeast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also add this URL to the list in my last post. http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/pollenpatties.htm allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:16:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Frank Wyatt Subject: Re: Value of drawn comb The responses from the list have brought me to the following generalized conclusions. 1.)It will take approx. 5 gallons of honey/syrup (60lbs) to draw foundation in a deep hive body. 2.)The amount of time involved to draw this foundation will be relative to the hive condition and health.(Did not receive much response about time factor) 3.) Drawn comb- could produce 3x the amount of honey in a hive compared to foundation. Using approx. $1.25/lb US and a total amount of 120lbs this is $150.00 US/hive. 4.) The cost of drawing foundation to comb (60lbs x $1.25US)or $75.00 US Thanks your the list assistance. This can give someone like myself guidelines for planning the future. If these conclusions do not seem appropriate, please advise to the list how you would proceed. Frank Wyatt WG Bee Eden, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 08:05:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Value of drawn comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It will take approx. 5 gallons of honey/syrup (60lbs) to draw > foundation in a deep hive body. Keep in mind that the bees will not draw comb unless there is something to put in it. That fact makes the calculation very difficult. You'll need to supply enough feed to fill, as well as build the comb. Moreover, there is not actually much wax in newly drawn foundation. Maybe two pounds added by the bees per super? The type of foundation will have a huge effect, too, since some heavy foundations, with lots of wax in the wall imprints can be almost half drawn without the bees having to contribute much, if any wax in the process. > 2.)The amount of time involved to draw this foundation will be > relative to the hive condition and health.(Did not receive much > response about time factor) Season and ambient temperature are also significant factors. The number of bees of various ages will have an effect on both rate and efficiency of building. Strain of bee may also factor in. > 3.) Drawn comb- could produce 3x the amount of honey in a hive > compared to foundation. Using approx. $1.25/lb US and a total amount > of 120lbs this is $150.00 US/hive. Sometimes there is little difference, and sometimes a great deal of difference, depending on flow rate and other factors. > 4.) The cost of drawing foundation to comb (60lbs x $1.25US)or > $75.00 US There is a cost, but nobody can say for sure what it is, since it is seldom twice the same. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 04:50:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Supplemental feeding : Brewers Yeast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen van Niekerk" To: Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 12:12 PM Subject: [BEE-L] Supplemental feeding : Brewers Yeast Dear All, I am planning to feed brewers yeast (a moist patty) to my bees as artificial pollen to try and stimulate brood rearing in the winter. The patty consists of brewers yeast and an acid modified sucrose solution (99% pure). The sucrose solution was tested with no ill effects. After obtaining the yeast, I then heard a lot of stories about if you feed the "wrong" kind of yeast, your bees could develop dysentery. I have a certificate of analysis for the brewers yeast: Test parameter Result Standard Total Bacteria count 2.80E5 <= 1E7 Lactic Acid Bacteria 1.80E5 <= 1E7 Wild Yeast Count Not Detected <= 1E5 Viable yeast count 2.40E10 >= 1E10 E. Coli Count Not Detected Absent Coli form Count Not Detected <= 1E2 Dry Matter 93.33 >=90% Are these parameters acceptable? Would my bees be safe?(dysentery) Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:03:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Value of Drawn Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the unexpected advantages of varroa is the use of mesh floors and trays set beneath to catch the debris. The purpose is to count the varroa, but lots of other things fall as well, giving the beekeeper a non-intrusive insight into what is happening above. One of the things revealed is that bees are going to produce wax whether they need to or not, and countless wax scales fall to the floor wasted. >From this it follows that it is over simplistic to weigh the wax and the potential honey and calculate profit and loss, when much of the expenditure would have been incurred anyway. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:33:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: Supplemental feeding : Brewers Yeast In-Reply-To: <008701c45214$254021c0$0200a8c0@peter> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Jun 14, 2004, at 9:33 AM, Peter Detchon wrote about protein supplements While Western Oz is a long way from Ontario Canada, those of you closer may be interested in the Ontario Beekeepers Assoc Summer meeting. Several papers will be presented on pollen, substitutes, and supplements. Meeting takes place at University of Guelph on Saturday June 26, 2004. Check www.ontariobee.com. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:44:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Drawing comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a big fan of drawing foundation comb while feeding, so wanted to continue this thread: > It will take approx. 5 gallons of honey/syrup (60lbs) to draw > foundation in a deep hive body. Perhaps true, but I would not want to give the impression that foundation can be drawn by feeding 5 gallons, and would also not want to give the impression that it takes 5 gallons of feed! For bees to draw comb properly, it takes lots of bees the right age and warm weather (particularly nights), and sufficient nectar or feed (or both). No matter how much one feeds, a full deep will not be drawn properly in cool or cold weather. The best conditions are summer weather during a flow, with feed. I have drawn comb in hundreds of deeps during late spring and summer, and find it 'usually' takes 2 gallons of feed. Sometimes 1 gallon and sometimes 3 gallons, but most often two. > 4.) The cost of drawing foundation to comb (60lbs x $1.25US)or > $75.00 US This could be pretty misleading. I am drawing comb now, using corn syrup that I pay $.18 a pound for, instead of the $1.25 quoted. Hobbyists without access to corn syrup should be able to use sugar solution which, when diluted, should not cost more than $.25 a pound...and that is pretty high. Using 3 gallons, the high end of my experience, that is 36 pounds times $.25 a pound, or $9. A long way from $75. Draw your foundation under feed during the summer...until and unless you have enough hives and experience to dispense with the feed! Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:09:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gary Plazyk Subject: Frequently asked questions: weights & measures Comments: To: Beekeeping Yahoo group , ISBA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I'm going to be giving a talk at the Illinois State Beekeeping Association next week. The audience is novice and prospective beekeepers, and the topic is "Hives and Equipment". I'm expanding it to include all the technology and equipment of a hobby beekeeper, and providing checklists for everything I can think of. In addition to the checklist, I thought it might be helpful to include some statistics in my handout. Here are some questions that I've been asked; please let me know if you have any others you think should be included. If there's interest, I could provide the list copies of the checklists and FAQs. Thanks! What is the weight of... - empty frame & foundation (deep, medium, shallow) - empty frame & foundation (deep, medium, shallow) - empty frame & foundation (deep, medium, shallow) - empty frame & foundation (deep, medium, shallow) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:39:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jonathan Kriebel Subject: Re: Thoughts on Wax Moths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, I have found plenty under the screens. I scrape them off the tray (beneath the screen) and feed them to the chickens. JK Jonathan B. Kriebel Das Sauen Õhr Farm 3229 Zepp Rd. Green Lane, PA 18054-2357 Telephone: (610) 864-8581 Facsimile: (215) 234-8573 jbkriebel@speakeasy.ne :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:49:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Drawing comb In-Reply-To: <005401c4539f$df9c3b80$b2e9d518@newdell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing that seems to be confusing this issue is that the numbers are for either drawn comb (wax) alone or drawn comb and the honey filling that comb. Can get confusing. Plus some talk about what is needed to draw a single deep and include (or not)the honey. So you can have a range of $9 to $75 if you are talking about drawn comb and drawn comb with "honey". Generally the ratios I have seen for wax vrs. honey vary (as noted by several) so there is no absolute but a range. As Lloyd notes, the conditions in and outside the hive make a big difference. From the Hive and the Honey Bee- 3.8 kilos of honey is needed to produce 453 grams of wax. (or about 1(wax):8(honey). The ranges I have seen go from 1:5 to 1:10.) The HATHB also notes that pollen is required by bees to produce wax (they eat it to stay healthy and strong), so feeding to draw comb when pollen is not plentiful is inefficient. Part of the pollen load for the hive is in producing wax, so bees are not involved in bring in nectar but must bring in extra pollen for wax and not honey/brood generation. This is one of those problems that has a lot of variables. Best to stick with a range. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:16:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Frank Wyatt Subject: Re: Drawing comb I also use HFCS 55 to draw foundation after the sourwood flow. The intent of my questions were to help in planning for increases in hive numbers, to decide whether to allow the bees to draw foundation in the spring and loss the honey they could generate and to have a general value for the drawn hive bodies and supers that I have sitting in the warehouse. My conclusions came from comments listed from Lloyd Spear,Allen dick, and others that answered my list. I appreciate the assistance and realized that conditions,weather, methods, time of year, and what your decide to feed the bees to generate comb,plays a part in the outcome of drawn comb & cost. I chose to use the current cost of honey to value the possible loss of honey by allowing the bees to draw comb during the spring flow. Honey with a M spells Money! Put 3 beekeepers in a room and you will get 5 different opinions on how to proceed. Thanks again for the different opinions. Frank Wyatt WG Bee Eden, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:34:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Frank Wyatt Subject: Trailor load of Bees overturned REf: Bozeman, Mont. See the article at http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-06-16-bees-spill_x.htm :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:11:41 -0400 Reply-To: jkriebel@speakeasy.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jonathan Kriebel Organization: Veritec, Ltd Subject: Re: Drawing Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have to agree with Lloyd. IMHO, this year on six new hives it took = two feedings of a gallon each to draw out a deep body. This=20 occurred in the last two and a half weeks, where the weather was pretty much optimal. Last year, roughly the same feed ratio, but much longer, = as the weather was cold and rainy. =20 A local beekeeper told me "they would not touch the syrup if nectar is available." I have found this to be false. It only took them five days = to down the gallon, and finish the body. I put the first supers on them yesterday. =20 Which brings me to: 1. How a person starting out gets drawn comb. 2. Do you feed a hive to the specific end of producing drawn comb, = forgoing honey production?=20 3. Or do you super with deeps, and use the subsequent extracted frame = for starting hives the following year? =20 BTW Lloyd, I am setting up a few frames of your rounds. The romance = seemed to go out of the traditional sections with the apparent reality of the labour required [for them vs. RR] given the time crunch associated with = the season. Thanks...JK=20 =20 Jonathan B. Kriebel Das Sauen =D5hr Farm 3229 Zepp Rd. Green Lane, PA 18054-2357 Telephone: (610) 864-8581 Facsimile: (215) 234-8573 jbkriebel@speakeasy.net=20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:15:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gary Plazyk Subject: Frequently asked questions: weights & measures Comments: To: Beekeeping Yahoo group , ISBA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Sorry - I accidently sent the draft before I was done. -Gary P.] Hi! I'm going to be giving a talk at the Illinois State Beekeeping Association next week. The audience is novice and prospective beekeepers, and the topic is "Hives and Equipment". I'm expanding it to include all the technology and equipment of a hobby beekeeper, and providing checklists for everything I can think of. In addition to the checklists, I thought it might be helpful to include some statistics in my handout. Here are some questions that I've been asked; please let me know if you have any others you think should be included. If there's interest, I could provide the list copies of the checklists and FAQs. Thanks! What is the weight of... - empty frame plus foundation (deep, medium, shallow) - honey-filled frame (deep, medium, shallow) - box with 9 empty frames (deep, medium, shallow) - box with 9 honey-filled frames (deep, medium, shallow) - honey: 1 pint, 1 quart, 1 gallon, 5 gallons How many bees are in... - 1 pound - 3 pounds - a typical swarm - a typical hive (by month) How long does a bee live? - summer bees - winter bees Best regards, -Gary P. Gary Plazyk Fuzzy Bear Farm 18404 Garden Valley Road Marengo, IL 60152 815-568-7282 g_plazyk@ix.netcom.com http://profiles.yahoo.com/g_plazyk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:51:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Drawing comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathan asks: "2. Do you feed a hive to the specific end of producing drawn comb, forgoing honey production? 3. Or do you super with deeps, and use the subsequent extracted frame for starting hives the following year?" Yes, to both. For those who are starting out, I strongly suggest feeding, feeding, and feeding to get their first drawn comb. Under feed, they will get nice straight, well-filled comb that will last for years. This will require foregoing at least the summer flow (if starting with packages) or the early flows only (if starting with nucs). If I have real strong hives I will often give some a full deep of foundation to draw and extract...and use for brood the next year. But I am not a beginner...although sometimes I feel like one! Once one has some experience, the best, least intrusive way of getting new brood comb is to put five frames of foundation in the middle of a brood box. Two drawn combs on each side. Such a box cannot be on the bottom, and some method should be used to keep the queen from laying above the box. This will result in five beautiful combs, with a minimum of honey loss. If one has 100 or so hives, a significant number of new drawn combs can be obtained for use in comb rotation (throwing out the old) or hive expansion. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:36:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Addison McMurtry Subject: Undrawn supers In-Reply-To: <003801c45461$6a93ab80$b2e9d518@newdell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm a second-year beekeeper who was really looking forward to a honey-harvest this year. I have two hives, one started from a package last year, and one from a package this year. The hive from last year was slow, but filled out a second deep rapidly this spring. With feeding, the hive I started this year has also filled out a second deep (weather conditions much better this spring than last). I put shallow supers with foundation on both of these hives weeks ago, but there hasn't been ANY activity in them! Not even any drawn comb. Both hives are heavy with stored honey and pollen. I've tried removing the queen excluders, moving the shallows around in the stacked hive - nothing seems to make a difference. Does anyone have any advice on how to encourage the bees to start drawing out the foundation? I don't want to feed syrup, because I don't want them to store it in the super... -Lee McMurtry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:34:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Timothy Eisele Subject: Re: Undrawn supers In-Reply-To: <20040617143604.44670.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Addison McMurtry wrote: > Does anyone have any advice on how to encourage the > bees to start drawing out the foundation? I don't > want to feed syrup, because I don't want them to store > it in the super... > -Lee McMurtry Where are you located? Are you in an area where the daytime temperatures are still around 70 F or thereabouts, and the night-time temperatures are dropping into the 50s or lower? If you are, you might be having the same problem I used to have - the box gets cold overnight, and the sun isn't able to warm it up enough for waxworking during the day. I originally painted my hives white, and the bees were extremely reluctant to move into a new super. Then I painted them dark green (so that they would warm rapidly in the sun), and suddenly the bees were drawing the frames out rapidly. It looked to me as if it wasn't so much of an issue in the brood chamber, where the bees would hang out all night and keep the wax fairly warm, but an added super of new foundation wouldn't be part of the cluster and would get left out in the cold overnight. I would only recommend doing this if you are in the northern regions where the summer doesn't get too hot, otherwise there is some risk of a dark hive overheating and melting the comb. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu Located in Northern Michigan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:07:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Addison McMurtry Subject: Re: Undrawn supers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Timothy Eisele wrote: > Where are you located? Are you in an area where the > daytime temperatures > are still around 70 F or thereabouts, and the > night-time temperatures are > dropping into the 50s or lower? I'm in Northern California - its 100 degrees here today. My boxes are watersealed natural pine, and are in dappled shade. -Lee McMurtry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:28:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Shrivelled up wings With my bees, and others I've spoken to in this area, there seems to be a direct correlation between shrivelled up wings and Varroa mite. After treatment in the fall, there are virtually none which have this syndrome, but little by little they appear more regularly from the summer on. Here is one I saw today in a hive next to my house. http://www.pbase.com/image/30272882 It is quite pathetic, as sometimes they can fly with difficulty (I see them with less sever cases in swarms) but all too often they just wander around outside the hive until they die or are pulled down by ants or other preditors. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:50:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: josh jaros Subject: Re: Undrawn supers In-Reply-To: <20040617143604.44670.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Addison, I have also found it very hard to get the bees to draw out a straight box of foundation IF they don't have another place to store honey that is directly above that box. From what it sounds like you have a brood box and two supers, one filled and one of undrawn foundation. I had the same thing happen to me last year of three of my hives. The bees were more content to fill the brood box and super out with honey than to work out the foundation. However, as soon as I placed an empty super of drawn comb directly above it, they immediately began to build comb. What seems to work well for me is to remove the queen excluder, and place the undrawn foundation directly above it, then on the very top put the drawn empty comb. In the mean time the unwaxed frames will act like an excluder. After they start to really work on it, drop your excluder back in. Everyone has different methods and tricks that work for them, this one works for me. Hope it works for you as well. Josh Jaros --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 21:42:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Shrivelled up wings In-Reply-To: <200406172128.i5HLRcQp005448@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:28 PM 6/17/2004, you wrote: >there seems to be a direct correlation between shrivelled up wings and >Varroa mite. This is a fairly well documented problem. It's not really directly caused by the mites, rather the mites vector the deformed wing virus (often called DWV). Mites also vector several other viruses, though It seems the DWV is the most common or possibly just the most easily noticed. You should get lots of hits on deformed wing virus and DWV in the archives, google and various magazines and journals. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:58:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Undrawn supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/17/2004 11:09:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, leemcmurtry@YAHOO.COM writes: Does anyone have any advice on how to encourage the bees to start drawing out the foundation? I spray the new foundation with sugar water. Kathy Cox Kathy Cox, Bloomfield Bees and Bouquets Northern California, Italian, 50 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:17:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Shrivelled up wings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Tim Vaughan" wrote: > With my bees, and others I've spoken to in this area, there seems to be a > direct correlation between shrivelled up wings and Varroa mite. After > treatment in the fall, there are virtually none which have this syndrome, > but little by little they appear more regularly from the summer on. The cause, Deformed Wing Virus, has been well known for some time. You may find my report on the Central Association Leamington Weekend interesting: http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/Newsletters/February2002.htm Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:47:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Undrawn supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Kathy Cox Said... > I spray the new foundation with sugar water. In UK we have a method of getting the bees to use foundation that has 'gone stale'. We dip the frames and wax in a solution of washing soda. Saturation of solution is not critical... a few table spoons to the pint or a lb to a gallon are both good enough measures. Now in UK 'washing soda' is potassium carbonate, not sodium hydroxide (caustic soda). We think is works for the same reason that a line of washing seems to attract bees, (they desire the mineral content). Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:32:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Undrawn supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > as soon as > I placed an empty super of drawn comb directly above it, they > immediately began to build comb. That trick may work in some conditions, but in northern regions, at times when nights are cool, it may not, since the added space above may cool the hive enough that the bees retreat at night and cease work, so some careful observation may be required when trying it. Under cool conditions, crowding the bees a bit helps. The idea is to keep bees on the foundation and full of nectar or syrup at all times while it is (hopefully) being drawn. While a good hive may require many supers of drawn comb, foundation has a lot of empty space, and therefore accommodates far more bees per box until it is drawn, and putting on too many at once may result in nothing much happening. The rule I use with foundation, when drawing entire boxes, is to put on only as many boxes at a time as the bees will occupy fully, and to keep the foundation down next to the brood and covered with bees. Since the amount of space in the hive diminishes rapidly as the foundation is drawn out and filled, regular visits are advised to progressively add more room as indicated. Another point to keep in mind is that getting the bees started drawing wax can be difficult, but once they start, they will keep going unless conditions become too unfavourable. And one more: some hives just won't do a good job. They will either do very little, do crooked work, or chew the foundation. Another hive next to it may do a nice job. That's life. > Everyone has different methods and tricks that work for them, this > one works for me. Hope it works for you as well. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:40:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Undrawn supers In-Reply-To: <20040618005005.74783.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-54C27F3; boundary="=======17D642BA=======" --=======17D642BA======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-54C27F3; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I have also found it very hard to get the bees to draw out a > straight box of foundation IF they don't have another place to store > honey that is directly above that box. >Josh Jaros I have found the same thing. It is my standard procedure for drawing supers of foundation. I first place two supers of drawn comb on the hive. Once the colony is filling the supers well, I place a super of foundation under them...directly on the broodnest. With a good flow, the foundation is drawn quickly, and straight. Mike --=======17D642BA=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:17:26 -0400 Reply-To: DanJan Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DanJan Subject: Re: Undrawn supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If there is no nectar (sugar water) the bees really don't make the wax needed to cap/draw foundation. I would feed regularly to encourage wax production Dan Veilleux In the mountains of North Carolina Zone 6a :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 18:28:45 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Undrawn supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Cushman wrote: > Now in UK 'washing soda' is potassium carbonate, not sodium hydroxide > (caustic soda). Dave I think that it is sodium carbonate decahydrate, at least that is what is says on the Dri Pak washing soda that I use. Most useful substance around - dissolves wax and propolis, will clean clothes and furnishings, carpets etc. I use it as a disinfectant wash for hive tool and rubber gloves when examining colonies as recommended by the National Beekeeping Unit. Must admit that I have not heard of using it for stale foundation. How long do you soak it? Cannot be too long or there would be no wax left! And why does it work? I assume that it softens the wax and might also remove any thin veneer of propolis. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:55:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Joe Miller (Bethel NC USA)" Subject: Pollination and Crop Failure For those of you that pollinate, do you handle things differently if the grower has a failure of their crop? Any suggestions? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:55:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Shrivelled wings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As Tim wrote, this is a symptom of Deformed Wing Virus, which was probably endemic at very low levels and therefore unnoticed before varroa. I know, offhand, of only 2 of the many viruses that can be identified accurately outside a laboratory: the other is sac brood, which the Regional Bee Inspector pointed out in a couple of my hives this evening. Generally, if levels of DWV rise enough for the beekeeper to notice, he has a serious varroa problem and should have treated before this. Readers from the UK should look at the Central Science Laboratory web site. Dr Ruth Spinks is studying the incidence of viruses and is inviting UK beekeepers to submit a sample for testing. If, via the web site link, you let her have your details she will send you a container of alcohol into which you drop about 20 bees, preferably from a varroa infested hive. Send it back to her with details of location etc. Tell her whether or not you want the results, Don't expect an overnight response. The Tacman machine to which she has access was devised and built for playing with plant viruses and it really needs several thousand samples to make it worth stoking the boilers and raising steam. This then encourages the genie in the machine to whizz through the samples in a split second and enunciate in sonorous tones the names and family of the various viruses. I could simplify this a little if it seems too complicated. When I sent in my sample, in a fit of whimsy, I included a marked queen (already dead) as a wind up. However, I since learn that Ruth isn't a beekeeper and probably won't recognise a queen so I was wasting my time. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:57:23 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Undrawn supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter & all > I think that it is sodium carbonate decahydrate yes, you are correct... I should engage brain first :-) > Must admit that I have not heard of using it for stale foundation. How long > do you soak it? Not soaked, just dipped in and pulled out, I guess two to three seconds exposure. It only partially sticks to the foundation surface and dries with a white stain. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 00:37:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Shrivelled wings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade wrote: > The Tacman machine to which she has > access was devised and built for playing with plant viruses and it really needs > several thousand samples to make it worth stoking the boilers and raising steam. > This then encourages the genie in the machine to whizz through the samples > in a split second and enunciate in sonorous tones the names and family of the > various viruses. I understand from Ruth that they are currently only set up to identify black queen cell virus, sacbrood virus and Kashmir bee virus. Once the methodology has been tested they will be able to re-test the samples for other viruses. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:16:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Shrivelled wings In-Reply-To: <156.37e322da.2e04bed6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2480721D; boundary="=======792FB8=======" --=======792FB8======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2480721D; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have a colony that is showing deformed wings...on drones. The ground in front of the hive is littered with dead and dying drones...all with shriveled wings. Strange thing about these drones is that they are all white...except for their eyes, which are normal. On May 26th I inspected the colony. That is when I first noticed the white drones. These white drones were hatching by themselves. They must be dying as fast as they hatch, because I could find no live white drones in the hive. I returned on June 13, and the same thing was going on. This time I took some photographs, and collected a few of the drones. I placed them on the "hump" in my truck. Two days later, the white drones had darkened to near normal color. What's happening here. It looks as if they are just hatching too early. I could find no varroa in the drone brood. Mike --=======792FB8=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:28:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Pollination and Crop Failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe asks: For those of you that pollinate, do you handle things differently if the grower has a failure of their crop? No. Crop problems are common as are beekeeping failures. Will the chemical company return the money for the chemicals if a crop failure. The seed seller? Any suggestions? Your commitment was for you to provide pollination in exchange for an agreed payment. The only adjustment to payment would be if the pollination was the cause of the crop failure. If not then the grower needs to pay. I have seen the problems caused by what your grower is suggesting. A beekeeper in our area fell for the growers BS. The beekeeper did not get paid until after the crop was in and then not the agreed price but what the grower wanted to pay. After the death of the above beekeeper it took us a couple years to get the growers mind right but he came around. Half payment when the bees are brought in and the other half when they leave the orchard. Too many growers want to skimp on the number of hives to pollinate with and then when weather happens when the bees are cut to only a few flying days the grower wants to blame the beekeeper. We bring in the bees at the time the grower wants . At the strength agreed on in advance. We remove at the time the grower wants the bees removed. End of story! The above agreed prices will be discounted if the beekeeper fails in his end of the deal such as: 1. fails to deliver on time (too late arrival will cause a below normal crop on certain crops) 2.hives are below strength agreed on. we have saved many a crop aaand out of state beekeeper in this area by bringing in strong hives to asure pollination. The grower has hired out of state hives at a lower price only to find hives to weak to pollinate. We charge a higher price as the bees are needed within hours and we are allready busy which means long hours. At times around the clock only taking cat naps. Most growers will gladly pay the higher price and try to get the first pollinator to discount the agreed price. 3.Not removed on time. (very important and can cause crop failure on certain crops if spraying is delayed.) The top two are problems seen on a regular basis. When the call comes to remove the bees from certain crops beekeepers move fast. Growers have killed many hives by giving the beekeeper say 24 hours to remove bees and then spraying . many beekeepers have lost hives by spraying when not removed as agreed. We had a grower in California irrigate his almond orchard before we could get our hives out. Takes several nights of work to remove all hives. The grower said we could waid through the foot of water and carry our pallets of hives out by hand. Yea right! We got our hives out but not by hand and I suppose the grower is still trying to fill the ruts (and find a beekeeper for next year)! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:46:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Pollination and Crop Failure In-Reply-To: <200406181355.i5ICbLUX018888@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: "Joe Miller (Bethel NC USA)" > For those of you that pollinate, do you handle things differently if > the grower has a failure of their crop? > > Any suggestions? You aren't giving enough info for us to make intelligent comments. Most importantly, what crop? Is the grower claiming inadequate bee strength? Did the grower use insecticides while the bees were present? Seed counts of the crop? You'll have to explain the situation better. I almost always kicked myself whenever I gave a grower credit. The farmer is a lot bigger business than the beekeeper, and the beekeeper shouldn't have to do his banking for him. After pollination is over, it seems much less important, and lots of excuses can be found to not pay. Most importantly, you are not there just to physically pollinate. You are also a pollination consultant. You should be evaluating pollination as it occurs. If any problems are developing, catch them in the act. Dave in SC http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:26:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Shrivelled wings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael > The ground in front of the hive is littered with dead and dying drones... > all with shriveled wings. Strange thing about these drones is that they are > all white...except for their eyes, which are normal. Any chance of a picture at the end of a URL? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:25:11 -0400 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Organization: Keith B. Forsyth Subject: Ontario Beekeepers meet in Guelph, June 26th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Further information available from OBA, info@ontariobee.com ONTARIO BEEKEEPERS' ASSOCIATION SATURDAY, JUNE 26, 2004 GUELPH, ONTARIO=20 =20 Advance Registration: $20.00 - must be post-marked by June 12 ($30.00 = at the door) Lunch: $10.75 - sandwiches, veggies and dip, = assorted squares, and beverages. Both subject to 7% GST=20 Hosted by: University of Guelph Wellington County Beekeepers' Association=20 TENTATIVE SCHEDULE=20 Apiculture Field Lab (Townsend House)=20 8:30 am Tour=20 Eccles Centre=20 10:15 am Registration =20 10:40 am Welcome =20 Dr. Mike Dixon, Chair, Department of Environmental Biology=20 10:50 am Wellington County Beekeepers' Association Bill Higgins, President=20 11:00 am Ontario Beekeepers' Association Update=20 Tom Congdon, President=20 11:20 am Laboratory Evaluation of Some Plant Essences to Control Varroa = Mites =20 Dr Rahim Ebadi, professor, College of Agriculture, Isfaham = University of Technology, Iran (Visiting collaborator with Dr. Gard = Otis)=20 12:00 pm Lunch - by reservation only - MUST BE PURCHASED IN ADVANCE=20 1:00 pm Provincial Update =20 Doug McRory, Provincial Apiarist=20 1:20 pm Feed Bee - A Promising Pollen Substitute=20 Abdolreza Saffari, U of G graduate student, supervisor - Dr. Peter = Kevan=20 1:40 pm Pollinator Problems =20 Amanda King, U of G graduate student, supervisor - Dr. Cynthia Scott- = Dupree=20 2:00 pm Seasonal Differences in Colony Breeding Potential =20 Melanie Youngs, U of G student, Supervisor - Dr. Gard Otis=20 2:20 pm Effects of Protein Availability on Honeybees =20 Heather Mattila, U of G graduate student, supervisor - Dr. Gard Otis = 2:40 pm The Affects of Nutrition on the Quantity and Quality of = Drones =20 Dr. Rahim Ebadi=20 3:00 pm Coffee=20 3:20 pm Antibacterial and Healing Properties of Honey =20 Ingrid Danylyk, U of G student/technician at Ontario Veterinarian = College, supervisor-Dr Karol Mathews OVC=20 3:40 pm Native Meadow Plants- Habitat Regeneration =20 Rob Buchanan, Rural Lampton, Stewardship Network=20 4:10 pm Organic Beekeeping - Project Update =20 Alison Skinner, OBA Tech Transfer Team=20 =A8 Bio for University of Guelph Apiculture:=20 The University of Guelph has been providing training and conducting = research in apiculture for approximately 120 years. We have been = actively engaged with the Ontario Beekeepers' Association for all of = these years.=20 =20 We currently have three faculty members involved in bee research and = teaching and one full time apiarist. As of 2004 there will be an = additional researcher hired to work exclusively with honeybees. The = meeting program will include all the students currently conducting bee = research. The morning tour will demonstrate our Field Lab's facilities. = We will have a number of stations set up to show queen rearing = equipment, our new 28 frame Cowan extracting line, a Billet loader, our = indoor wintering/ cold storage room, double nucleus colonies, and many = other interesting items. =20 Please note that there will not be a Commercial Beekeepers meeting in = August this year. We are concentrating our efforts and resources by = holding only one meeting during the summer. Many beekeepers have = commented that the August meeting was difficult to attend as they were = busy harvesting their crop. Please support your association by attending = the June 26, 2004 summer meeting. As always feedback on this change is = welcome.=20 =A8 Bio for Special Guest speaker Dr. Rahim Ebadi, Proffessor, = College of Agriculture,=20 Isfahan University of Technology, Isfahan, Iran:=20 Dr. Isfahan did his Phd. at the University of California, Davis, = with Dr. Norm Gary. He has studied many aspects of honeybee = reproduction including acceptance of larvae in queen cells, affects of = carbon dioxide and low temperature anesthetics on queens, survival of = sperm in instrumentally inseminated queens. Dr. Ebadi's most current = research is testing a variety of plant essences for their control of = varroa mites. He will be collaborating with Dr. Gard Otis this summer = on a project to determine how nutrition affects drone populations and = viability.=20 =20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Francis Fedrizzi Subject: Queenless I have noticed over the past three days that my bees are not brining in any pollen. I have never seen that occur for so long. Is there any reason my bees would not be brining in pollen other than that the hive is queenless? Is it possible that there just isn't any pollen to gather at the moment? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 06:53:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Pollination and Crop Failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The beekeeper did not get paid until after the crop was in and then > not the agreed price but what the grower wanted to pay. Years back, beekeepers in Alberta -- before leafcutters -- were paid a portion of the alfalfa seed their bees set. In such a case, payment comes later. When we pollinated, we got a 50% advance months before the pollination, then a portion around the time the bees were set, then the balance at year end. We were dealing with large multi-national seed companies. In other situations, a beekeeper I know in BC, where some of the small growers are inclined to reneg or renegotiate after the job is done, collects his accounts when the bees are in the crop and working, but before the pollination is complete. That way, he can just pull them out early -- or suggest he might -- if the owner balks. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 06:56:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: josh jaros Subject: Re: Undrawn supers In-Reply-To: <009301c4551f$a241e0b0$19b85ad1@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I too have noticed that some hives tend to draw out nice uniform comb and others just can't seem to do anything right. I've experienced this on good honeyflows and on not so good honeyflows. It seems that some hives are much better at it than others. I wonder if this is why so many of us have different ideas about drawing comb out. Maybe different strokes for different bees. It could have something to do with the number of bees that the hive has at the time for this particular task. You just have to try a few different things and see what works best for you. What I try to do is to wait until the end of the honeyflow and then just as it is finishing, and I have large numbers of bees from the summer, I throw on my foundation for them to work out for next year. I take off my excluder and usually the bees will work so fast that they will fill the box with capped honey before the queen can even lay. Doesn't work out great all the time, but if I have big hives, and I! get them on at the right time, it works like a charm. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 13:43:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Andrew Dewey Subject: Electric Fence Voltage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What do folks think an effective voltage on a fence is to keep black bears away from bees? I have about 50' of fence - portable "Sheep" style, an AN-90 "Viper" energizer powered by a 12 volt deep cycle marine battery. My cheapo voltage detector from Agway reports somewhere between 2,000 and 3,500 volts at the far end of the fence from the energizer - but the meter is tough to read. This seems low to me but I thought I would ask the experts on the list what an "effective" voltage level is. Thanks! Andrew Dewey Southwest Harbor & Jonesboro, ME :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:49:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Electric Fence Voltage In-Reply-To: <000001c45624$f37db610$6400a8c0@homebase> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-721A5AF; boundary="=======5E186962=======" --=======5E186962======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-721A5AF; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit an AN-90 "Viper" energizer powered by a 12 volt deep cycle marine >battery. This seems low to me >Andrew Dewey This is exactly the set-up I use. Works well for me. Have you grabbed onto it yet? Still think the voltage is too low? Ask my help who always seems to get tangled up in the fence. :-) Mike --=======5E186962=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:52:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: Electric Fence Voltage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Even though I believe a GOOD electric fence unit is best. Something that would deter livestock. Remember it is a deterent not a bearier. Smear something that bears like on the wire. After a few licks the bear will get the idea. Russ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:03:59 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Barrier systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Dillon had asked about barrier systems and I promised to reply = when I returned. Sorry for the delay but here it is. There is a study which looked at some of the barrier systems in = Australia it can be viewed at www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/w01-05.pdf The Western Australia Dept of Agriculture had a Bulletin No. 4318 on = Barrier Systems but whilst it is mentioned on their home page, it is not = down loadable. I used a system a while back which consisted of having loads and = recording all for that load. Since selling some and now re-building, I = use a different system. I have all brood boxes numbered with a B no. from 1 upwards. The supers = on top are number from 1 onwards. I have different yards and have these = recorded on a hand held computer as well as the computer back home. = When I go out to a yard, I have each bottom box number with the number = of the supers on top. I record the date these supers go on and come off = on the hand held and down load when I come home. This way, if a hive shows up with AFB, I can trace back what supers have = been on that hive and can also find where they are now and take = appropriate action. I do the same for my support colonies that I make the mating nucs up = from and this gives me traceability. Hope this helps. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:16:47 -0400 Reply-To: lhhubbell@johnstown.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leland Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Re: Electric Fence Voltage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Dewey wrote: > What do folks think an effective voltage on a fence is to keep black > bears away from bees? I have no experience with fencing for bears, thankfully, but use both portable and permanent electrified fences for sheep. We use a digital voltmeter, which goes to 10,000 volts. The energizers/chargers we use will read 8,000 or 9,000 typically, which is much higer than the 2,000 to 3,500 you are reading. A well insulated wire in the clear should read the same voltage at the end as at the energizer with the 50' length of fence. From what I have read - I think it has been discussed in the past on BEE-L - it will take more than that to deter bears. A good ground system is essential, using more than one rod. You might want to obtain a catalog from Premier Fencing for reference purposes. Their 2004 catalog has some excellent information on page 84. It explains ratings, which are in joules, impedance, ground systems, fence resistance, etc. Website is at www.premier1supplies.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:02:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Electric Fence Voltage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Dean" To: Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Electric Fence Voltage > Even though I believe a GOOD electric fence unit is best. Something that > would deter livestock. Remember it is a deterent not a bearier. Smear something > that bears like on the wire. After a few licks the bear will get the idea. > > Hi All I hang Sardine cans with holes punched in them every 20 -30 feet. I'm up in Bear country all summer. You can see where the bear grabbed the can, the ground looks like a rototiller went over it. They do not come back for seconds. 3 wires. Hot top and bottom , ground in the middle. Wire the cans on the top wire. Best Regards Roy :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:05:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Subject: Legume Inoculants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm going to plant an acre of Black Eyed Peas to build up its nitrogen content. Later this Fall I'll replant it with clover to further it up. Does anyone know a source of legume inoculants. I need the Black Eyed Peas inoculant right away. Thanks (West Texas) Mark :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 00:22:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tony Dixon Subject: Re: Electric Fence Voltage Hi, A bear will easily go through an electric fence and put up with the discomfort of a shock if they know there is something they want on the other side. They are also very curious about anything new in their territory. When we place our bees in bear country we fold small squares of aluminum foil over the high voltage wire and smear them with a little peanut butter or bacon grease. This insures a good shock on the nose or mouth of the bear and is a sure and humane form of aversion therapy. Tony Dixon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 22:23:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Hensler Subject: Re: Legume Inoculants ----- Original Message ----- From: "TxBeeFarmer" To: > I'm going to plant an acre of Black Eyed Peas to build up its nitrogen > content. Later this Fall I'll replant it with clover to further it up. > Does anyone know a source of legume inoculants. I need the Black Eyed Peas > inoculant right away. http://www.groworganic.com/a/a1.html Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, WA http://www.povn.com/rock/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 07:27:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Electric Fence Voltage In-Reply-To: <200406200422.i5K4MMQf017517@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-128A3FF5; boundary="=======38504C44=======" --=======38504C44======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-128A3FF5; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >A bear will easily go through an electric fence...if they know there is >something they want on the >other side. Tony Dixon I have heard this many times. Once the bears are working the bees, there is no fence that will stop them. I disagree...at least from my experience with black bears. I have never had a bear go through a properly constructed and charged fence...even after the bear has been actively working the yard the night before. But, these are black bears. I think browns may need something more. > I hang Sardine cans with holes punched in them every 20 -30 feet. Roy >we fold small squares of aluminum >foil over the high voltage wire and smear them with a little peanut butter >or bacon grease. >Tony Dixon I just hang the strips of bacon directly on the top wire. Mike --=======38504C44=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:14:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Joe Miller (Bethel NC USA)" Subject: pollination and "crop failure" Regarding my prior post on this topic. I am a growing beekeeper, up to 70 hives this year. The local state paid bee inspector notified me of an opportunity, 40 hives for cucumbers. I met with the grower Tuesday morning. No bees working 60 acres, some fruit able to be picked already. He mentioned having some fungus problems (anthracnose?) and wanted 40 hives. I asked for $10/hive up front, and balance due when he got paid for crop, to total $45/hive. They wrote me a check. I worked the rest of the day moving the hives practically by hand, no more than 12 at a time. Got 40 in position by dusk. Thursday night after work there is a message on my machine that he does not think he can make a crop, insurance will only pay for seed, can we work something out....siad he might not be able to put food on his table if he had to pay me. Sounds like some bad farmer trying to cover his arse to get a check. I should have asked for full payment but did not. I have worked to get hives out of the yard fast, good thing, they were out picking this am. The learning curve hurts :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 09:19:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Joe Miller (Bethel NC USA)" Subject: Volunteer My wife and I are planning our 2005 vacations. Are there any large scale successful bee operations that need some volunteer labor in return for my being able to work, see, and learn from another perspective? Thank you :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:29:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: pollination and "crop failure" With my contracting business, I usually don't ask for down payments, and only ask for partial payments when the jobs is over 3-4 thousand dollars. I seldom have trouble getting paid, because I can put a Mechanic's Lien on property where I've done work just by filling out a form and paying a 14 dollar fee. The two times I've done it I got paid right away, because besides destroying a persons credit rating, the property effectively becomes partially mine, so they can't borrow against it, sell it, etc... I've often wondered if this would apply for pollinating fees. I don't see why it wouldn't, at least here in California. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 00:00:07 -0500 Reply-To: dobsondomain@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stevennancy Dobson Subject: Nebraska Desert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I have the opportunity to place some hives on a relatives property in Nebraska. I have not seen the area but I am told it is semi desert and 3 or 4 years a go a beekepper used to place his hives on this propperty but has since passed on. While I acknowledge that I am "very" new to bee keeping I do wonder is keeping hives in a semi desert area any better than in an area where agriculture is the mainstay farming operation as opposed to ranching of cattle. The owner of the property has said he used to see bees on the cactus all the time. Just wondered if anyone knew Thanks in advance. Steve :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 10:14:52 -0400 Reply-To: vs@victorschrager.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Victor Schrager Subject: beginner question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently bought two working hives from a venerable local beekeeper, and they are each composed of a deep and two shallows. The boxes are quite old and coming apart - what is the best way to turn the two shallows into one deep for the future. I want to take advantage of the honey flow for the summer. Victor Schrager :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:42:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: beginner question Comments: To: vs@victorschrager.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Victor asks: The boxes are quite old and coming apart - what is the best way to turn the two shallows into one deep for the future. If not in a hurry move the two shallows down to the bottom and add another deep to the top *after* the honey flow. If foundation you most likely will need to feed. Super as normal this year but go ahead and move the boxes you want to remove down so brood rearing will start in those boxes. Even confining the queen to those two shallow might not be a bad idea but without looking at the hive is hard to say because if you confine her on two shallows now full of honey without a place to lay eggs the hive might swarm. If very little honey is now in those two shallows I would confine her on those below a queen excluder and let the above deep become the winter honey super. Be sure to remember to pull the excluder after the honey supers are removed and for sure before cold weather sets in as the bees will cluster above the super and leave the queen below. If the bottom shallows are used for brood then over the winter the bees should move up onto the deeps with honey leaving the bottom shallows empty to be removed in early spring *next year*. Many other ways are around but the above is the most common used. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:47:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Sturman Subject: Beekeeping record program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello friends, I am teaching a software design and documentation course at a nearby university and in an effort to demonstrate the "proper" planning and design of a software program I am designing a Pocket-PC record keeper for beekeepers. I plan on using the project for me to learn development, but also to teach my students how to work with the world in designing their applications. I have a bunch of ideas for how this would look but I am also looking for input as to what kind of features you would like to see included. If you had a small handheld computer that you take with you into your yards: * What information would you like to write down? * What information would you like to have on hand? I also plan on having it interact with a full-size computer too for data transfer and storage. How would you like to see or play with the information you gather? Thanks for any input you can provide. As this thing gets developed (hopefully by the end of the summer; before my class starts), I plan on making our betas available. Stay tuned. John Sturman Blue Moon Farm Lexington, NY 12452 john@bluemoonfarm.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::