From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:51:55 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.6 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD2A24907A for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlv012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0404D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 95662 Lines: 1978 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:18:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anna Browder Subject: When Does Nectar Flow Begin? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I have an urban backyard hive in Rhode Island. I can observe the pollen that my bees are bringing in and storing, but I do not know how I can assess their nectar gathering activity. I have been feeding sugar syrup, but don't want to feed them the stuff once the nectar flows. None of my beekeeping literature is of any help to me in answering my question. Perhaps an experienced beekeeper from a neighboring state, if not Rhode Island, can help me. Anna Browder :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:04:29 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recently had the experience that the Canadian Food Inspection Agency = asked me to redo one of my labels because the line that said "Canada No. = 1" was not of a certain minimum letter size. And yet I note that on = several different brands of honey that say "Product of Argentina and = Canada" that line can be any size and is on several major brands is one = half the size of the "Canada No. 1" line, and tucked away where it is = not overly visible. So what is the consumer going to see: "Canada" in = big letters and "Argentina and Canada" in little letters. And that is = according to regulations. Grrrrr..... Stan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:48:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used In-Reply-To: <003001c427a4$6ff89b60$1abc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With all the recalls and associated activity surrounding this contamination problem - I find it rather astonishing that there is no public knowledge on why it has occurred. Rumour, beating around the bush, chatter - and damaging recalls, that IMHO will if clear information on its source and reasons for its presence are not forthcoming may lead to a loss in sales of our product. If I had contaminated my honey, as a producer - by intentional use or by accident by this material, I presume that the authorities would not be content in just issuing a recall of products. I presume that a certain investigation would be put in place to evaluate my methods and techniques - to say the least. They would insist on knowing where and how. Somebody, somewhere must know why this is occurring! Info. please before some investigative journalist finds out the truth and splashes it in a manner that would make me go and stick my head in a AHB swarm for relief! Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 07:50:11 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: China MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Keith Benson wrote: ''So, it is reserved for susceptible infections in weird places that are = poorly treated with other things '' =20 This is just not correct - it is used as an opthalmic antibiotic in = Europe. Hardly life threatening and certainly not a situation that = cannot be treated with other antibiotics. I thought that it was a = banned substance in Europe - but apparently it can get lincensed for = medical use. Best regards Roger White Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:35:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, The Source & Why It Is Used MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter said: Somebody, somewhere must know why this is occurring! I doubt Peter's plea for information will get a reply from those which know the answer. For whatever reason the Chinese have said they simply are puzzled by finding Chloramphenicol in their honey. There are two possible scenarios to the above *in my opinion* 1. They are stating the truth and illegal use (as Jim Fischer pointed out) is the reason for the problem. 2. The government provided the chloramphenicol for a reason they are not proud of ( as Chuck Norton suggests) and a cover up is going on. 3. Number 2 seems most likely *in my opinion* because of the spending of huge amounts of money by the government/packers to come up with an ultrfiltration process to remove the chloramphenicol from the honey. I wonder if the purpose for chloramphenicol use is so valuable to China beekeeping they have come up with ultrafiltration so they will not have to discontinue chloramphenicol use? I still wonder how many years honey coming out of China has been tainted with chloramphenicol? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:58:04 -0400 Reply-To: kgbenson@sc.rr.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: China MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger White Date: Thursday, April 22, 2004 0:50 am Subject: [BEE-L] China > Keith Benson wrote: > ''So, it is reserved for susceptible infections in weird places > that are poorly treated with other things '' > This is just not correct - it is used as an opthalmic antibiotic > in Europe. The fact that it available and used is not at odds with what I have stated. Most ophthalmologists I know would reserve use of the drug for particular cases and rely on other preparations for routine use because of some of the perceived risks involved, and because there are often more effective meds out there for most ocular infections. In effect they “reserve” it. Please also bear in mind that my comments were largely directed towards systemic preparations. My apologies for not being absolutely clear. The use of Chloramphenicol has dropped off considerably in recent years since the association with Aplastic Anemia was made and most physicians and veterinarians will opt for something else when possible. Doesn't mean the stuff is not still manufactured or used. IT clearly has its place in the medical armamentarium. I won’t get into a lengthy discussion of how and why the material may or may not be indicated in every possible scenario – suffice it to say that it is not commonly used (like penicillins, cephalosporins and flouroquinolones) and most facilities do reserve its use for cases where there is a susceptible infection, that is poorly treated with other meds. In such instances there are often other drugs that might kill the bacterium in question – but something prevents delivery to a particular tissue (e.g. blood prostate barrier, blood aqueous barrier etc.) In otheres the bug is resistant to mot everything else. Individual physicians and veterinarians do this themselves as well – often in self defense. Perhaps in NA some are reluctant to use it as this is a fairly litigious society. I know veterinarians that will not dispense it to pet owners so as to avoid the liability that may come with exposing a pet owner to the stuff. Overkill perhaps, but certainly true. I know pediatricians that will no longer use it for uncoomplicated respiratory infections (It was once marketed as a tasty syrup for just that purpose) as there are safer materials available. How do I know this? I have discussed it with them directly. > Hardly life threatening and certainly not a situation > that cannot be treated with other antibiotics. The text you quoted above does not mention life threatening. There are occasionally infections in tissues where chlormaphenicol is the drug of choice - and it is used at those times. There are also strains of bacteria against whom the only viable choice is chlormaphenicol. Remember, simple sensitivity is not the only reason one might pick a drug. Again, not at odds with what I wrote. BTW - how often is it used in Europe compared to other preparations? Is it commonly used as a first line drug for an uncomplicated eye infection? Or is it reserved for resistant infections, melting corneal ulcers etc? Loss of vision, while not life threatening is often life changing – and considered serious business. This affects clinical choices. I would be more apt to reach for the stuff to treat a serious ophthalmic infection than perhaps an infected hangnail. There is a difference. > I thought that it > was a banned substance in Europe - but apparently it can get > lincensed for medical use. Banned for use in *food animals*. It is still available and can be used in humans, pet species and other non-food animals. I have several bottles of the stuff on my shelves as we speak. I would not hesitate to use it if I thought it warranted, as aplastic anemia is not associated with the use of this drug in veterinary medicine. Heck, even if AA was associated with chlormaphenicol in animals there are still many instances where I would use the stuff – but not willy nilly. Short version, chlormaphenicol is reserved by most physicians and veterinarians for cases where it is clearly required over other preparations for a variety of circumstances. It is, of course, available – how else would we use them in those aforementioned circumstances? OB Beekeeping: It should not find its way into honey. Cheers, Keith :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:10:33 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: bees flying at 38-45F MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi to All, I think that there is some misunderstanding here about the UK and the = AMM (British strain) and also about Italians, as generally understood in = the UK. The British are always talking about the weather and not = without good reason. It's very unreliable and usually cool, dark and = damp and generally not very suitable for Italians. AMM does much better = under such conditions being longer lived, thriftier and able to work at = low temperatures and because of it's mating strategy often remains = purely mated in many areas. When the sun does shine brightly the = Italians can bring in a good crop of honey in the UK, but at other times = they need an awful lot of feeding to maintain the enormous amount of = brood that they are able to produce, they take one look at the overcast = sky and get back into the warmth of the hive. They are also susceptible = to Acarapis woodi. I spoke to UK beekeepers recently that had been = using Italians from Hawaii. The results have been good in the past two = years during hot summers - I wonder what will happen this summer if the = sun is shy. Comparing Montana to the UK is not a very good match. Best regards Roger White In Cyprus - 340 days of sunshine annually. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:10:47 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: More Canadian Honey Problems In-Reply-To: <013001c4281e$eb06fc50$280ca7c6@stanshoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And yet I note that > on several different brands of honey that say > "Product of Argentina and Canada" that line can be > any size and is on several major brands is one half > the size of the "Canada No. 1" line, and tucked away > where it is not overly visible. Unfortunately, "Canada no1" (or noX) has few to do with honey's origin, according to the regulation (see federal honey bill C.R.C., ch. 287 : http://www.canlii.org/ca/regl/crc287/. Indeed, letters size for "canada no1" is regulated... more than its origin labelling. I agree with you : it opens a door to a vast trick to cheat consumers, sadly. I grrr with you... Hervé Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Dialoguez en direct avec vos amis grâce à Yahoo! Messenger !Téléchargez Yahoo! Messenger sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:00:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jack Grimshaw Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol in Honey, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, You posted: " The only problem with this scenario is that we still lack a mechanism to explain how evaporated nectar from plants (honey) would become contaminated by the use of contaminated water by the colony. I am pretty sure that bees do not add gathered water to honey, but instead, work hard to evaporate the water out of the nectar. :)" This is true during a strong nectar flow but before this, during brood build up,I think that my"micro-tankers" that aren't collecting pollen are hauling water (from upstream I hope) to dilute the stored honey that is still disappearing.Are these the same bees that will be collecting nectar during next weeks fruit bloom? Maybe there is contamination in the carrier? Jack :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:42:58 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Lifted from Bee-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Britt, You are still missing the point about AMM in the UK. It does get colder = in the Mid US than in the UK - but you are almost certain to get a good = summer - right? And when summer does come along you have large areas = with plants that produce nectar for the bees to forage on -right? A = decent summer is not guaranteed in the UK. In a poor summer US Italians = will need feeding in order to stay alive whilst AMM may actually make = some surplus. AMM is well adapted the British climate and is able to = survive without much input from the beekeeper, US Italians and NZ = Italians are not. Italians also need too much feeding even in this part = of the world (eastern Mediterranean and Middle East) I have spoken to = many beekeepers in Lebanon, Jordan, Greece and Israel - the comments are = always the same - lots of brood and lots of input in the form of food = from the beekeeper. The Italians in the US have been bred and selected = mainly for pollination and the package bee industry. That is the = production of large amounts of live bees to make packages with and get = pollination done early in the year.=20 In independent tests our own bees (Superbee Cyprus) out-performed US = Italians in both honey production and resistance to Acarapis woodi. = Three years ago we exported some queens to Finland and they wintered = better than the Finnish local bees and Buckfast in central Finland where = the temperature reached -40c during the middle of winter, something that = seemed impossible for a bee from southern Europe to do. Personally I = wouldn't use Italians in my own colonies. Best regards Roger White Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:10:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: China MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 23/04/2004 05:12:03 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > BTW - how often is it used in Europe compared to other preparations? Is it > commonly used as a first line drug for an uncomplicated eye infection? Or > is it reserved for resistant infections, melting corneal ulcers etc? > > My wife was prescribed it in ointment for spots on her eyelid. This is UK. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:01:24 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Lifted from Bee-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Roger White" wrote about AMM v Italians. Roger, you hit the nail on the head. Today I have been around something like 130 colonies (Spring has arrived at last!). Most colonies are a mix, but leaning towards AMM. Pure AMM colonies were fed approx 6kg of fondant last Autumn, mongrels 8kg, one Italian stock (a swarm from a neighbouring beekeeper!) was fed 12.5kg. Today, as the flow from rape starts, pure AMM had on average 3kg still unconsumed, mongrels had used their fondant and were heavy, but the Italians were on the point of starvation! Despite the difference in colony size and winter stores requirements, there is no significant difference in the crop gathered - the AMM produce just as much honey as the mongrels or Italians. This year I plan to increase the number of pure AMM. Not only do they produce as much honey for less input, but they are also low swarming and tend to supersede, so no swarm control inspections are required (as huge saving in workload!) and they live happily in one British National brood box - light to handle and ideal for moving to other crops, e.g. heather. Difficult to understand why anybody would keep anything else! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:30:17 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Lifted from Bee-L In-Reply-To: <000101c42952$a9c343e0$318a9ac2@haris8cjgnhodj> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <000101c42952$a9c343e0$318a9ac2@haris8cjgnhodj>, Roger White writes >MM is well adapted the British >climate and is able to survive without much input from the beekeeper We have a late spring and only for a few days now has there been a temperature above 13C (50F) in my part of the UK. The nests now are expanding rapidly and strong colonies are on 9-12 frames (smaller than Langstroth) some making swarming preparations. They generally tick over gradually expanding in February and March to about 5 frames ready for the spring flow which is well under way now. The trouble is, it can go cold again and rain for long periods or intermittently on and off. I used to think we always had 2 good weeks in May and again in July, when we'd get a good crop from the sycamore (etc) and brambles (blackberries) (etc). Alas, not true. AMM seems to be able to manage this erratic climate well and I have noted mating flights in light rain (drizzle) and serious nectar gathering at low temperatures. The pollen management is superb - weeks-worth being normal and the winter preparation shows many frames are pollen covered with honey - just right for the spring build up. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:37:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Potato Starch in sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been scanning the archives looking information on potato starch as an additive to sugar that is fed to bees. I found thoughts (though they disagreed) about corn starch and cream of tartar, but nothing on potato starch. The reason for my interest is that our local association has just acquired about 4000 pounds of sugar from an industrial source. It has French labeling which makes my understanding more difficult. It is 97% sucre (sugar) and 3% Amidon (potato starch). In appearance it looks more like granulated sugar - though a finer grain. The label says "Extra fin." Extra fine? It is not as fine as powdered sugar. We have been debating about the advisability of feeding this to the bees. 3% seems like a rather small starch content to be concerned about. When mixed with water a precipitate forms at the bottom. It seems to be the starch. We have had many bits of advice and a lot of hypothesizing... but nothing with authority. Have any of you had recent experience with such sugar? Or any ideas about potato starch? Any thoughts are appreciated. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:40:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Potato Starch in sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Larry & All, >Weve had many bits of advice and a lot of hypothesizing... but nothing with authority. In the end you will have to decide to feed or not feed yourself as all those have had to in a similar situation. In a club situation like yours I would not be the person which makes the decision for the group. I would not talk people into feeding sugar with starch. A large commercial beekeeper feeding a very small part of his hives sugar with starch is different than a group of hobby people feeding the product. Even if a problem totally unrelated happens to a couple hives and those hives die the first thing the beekeeper will blame is Larry K. and his idea to feed bees sugar with starch! If you are looking for a simple yes or no answer you will get the answer not to feed bees a product with starch of any kind. > Have any of you had recent experience with such sugar? Yes. A friend fed around 50 bags (2500 lbs.)of domino brand frosting with starch. >any ideas about potato starch? I doubt the fact the starch is from potato changes the secenario. > Any thoughts are appreciated. If you can pull up the posts of a few years ago of mine and others when the subject was discussed on BEE-L the posts might be helpful. You might use the word *domino brand* in the search. If you decide to feed the product I will pass on the advice given to me by a couple commercial beekeepers which claim to have fed sugar with a small amount of starch added before. Feed the product only in late spring when bees are flying all the time and make up a thin solution. I had bought the bags from a frieght salvage place I had the salvage sugar account sight unseen with skids of granulated sugar. The bags had sat in my warehouse for a couple years when a beekeeper from Nebraska I was buying brood from saw the bags and was interested. He took the bags in on the money I owed for the brood and mixed with water as I was told and never had a problem. He is in Texas right now with his bees or I would give you contact information Larry and you could talk to the beekeeper directly about his experience. Again you can talk to as many beekeepers as you can and get many different points of view but in the end the decision will be yours. Best not to feed bees a product with starch and NEVER feed a product with starch for winter stores. Hope I have helped! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. Thanks to all of the people on BEE-L which have emailed, sent cards and called about my recent rotator cuff surgery! bh/eth :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:12:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: Shop-vac for bee vacuum? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Milt, Before someone browsing Bee-L thinks they can use a shop-vac uninhibited by a screen or box, ANY(!) shop vac will quickly kill every bee you get ahold of. Pressure/speed from 1/4hp+ motors will rip legs, arms and simply squish fragile bees. Vacuums larger than a dustbuster offer zero hope of obtaining "live" bees without the help of something to reduce air-pressure once the bees are sucked into the vacuum hose. There's a bee-vac on www.beesource.com for free download which I would highly recommend to people removing bees or catching the occasional swarm off tree trunks or other spots too difficult to shake. Building the bee-vac would normally take a few days. If you're in a pinch and have a bit of imagination you could use the air-regulation principle and attach a vacuum to a couple 5 gallon buckets, one inside the other, with some sort of hole for pressure-regulation. Regards, Matthew Westall - E-Bees, Castle Rock, CO - USA -where we just had 8" of snow yesterday to help gaurantee our first spring flow -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Milt Lathan" Subject: [BEE-L] Shop-vac for bee vacuum? > with another hive elsewhere. I noticed in the archives, at least one > person has used a shopvac as a bee-vac. If I can find a long enough > extension cord - I may try this next. Any tips? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:40:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Potato Starch in sugar In-Reply-To: <001f01c429f8$f6077a90$dc5b70d1@Tom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry, I suggest that the sugar that you have is as it says - just extra fine sugar. I do not think that it will be "Icing sugar" (Sucre glace) grade - that would be an even finer powder. On the odd occasion that I used icing sugar whilst in France, it has either contained starch or silica. Both were I presume to aid the powder's ability to flow. When I searched for a supply without either of the two ingredients - always without success. I to was wary of using a sugar containing starch! - but never apparently had any problems. There again, I only used relatively small quantities. I would not feed starch containing sugar to bees that are going to be unable to fly and "ditch" the material. Such a case would be in a pre winter feed. You mention "Amidon" and translate that as Potato starch. Amidon, as far as I am aware translates just as starch. Therefore, it could be starch from maize, or any other starch source. Please be aware that the above is my experience - and you must make up you own mind on what to do. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 00:04:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Potato Starch in sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is it true that the enzyme diastase converts starch into sugar? Don’t honey bees produce that enzyme in their hypopharyngeal glands? Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:06:37 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Collett Subject: Re: Potato Starch in sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Is it true that the enzyme diastase converts starch into sugar? Don't honey bees produce that enzyme in their hypopharyngeal glands?" Interesting observation Dick. Diastase is introduced by the bees to the honey, in varying quantities dependent on honey composition. It is responsible for converting starch to dextrin's and sugars (dextrose, maltose and glucose). Diastase originates in the hypopharyngeal glands. There seem to be conflicting theories, and you should possibly check it out for yourself. There is an article which might sway your decision out of favour of using the starch, here is the website if you are interested. http://www.beesource.com/pov/usda/abjfeb1977.htm Hope this helps Paul Collett Makana Meadery/Department of Entomology, Rhodes University South Africa www.iqhilika.co.za Apis mellifera capensis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 01:15:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: davidbrowder Subject: BEE EYES IN THE DARK MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So I've painted the "floor" of several of my new bottom boards with=20 this lumunious glow in the dark paint. When ya shine a flashlight on=20 the entrance it will glow a lime green color (It takes a DIRECT beam=20 of light to activate it so I couldn't light up the area of the bottom=20 board under the brood frames). A bunch of bees, guard bees?? came out=20 to see what's happening and milled around till the the glow started=20 to fade. Pretty neat, but after watching this for a while the idea=20 hit me to try putting a INFRARED cyalume lightstick at the hive=20 entrance of a old non lumunious bottom board hive.-----This is like=20 the standard shake and break light sticks you can buy but the plastic=20 tube filters out all of the light but infrared. The only way one can=20 tell if it's working or not is to use night vision equipment. It was=20 working pretty good, couldn't see any glow from it as I held it in my=20 hand but was visible from 100 yards away with my night vision=20 monocular. When I put it at the hive entrance several hundred bees=20 covered it up, half an hour later there was still a full "front=20 porch" of em checking it out. Animated and moving around on the=20 entrance like they can see from the infrared illumination, which is=20 lit up like a 24 hour convienence store with the night vision=20 monocular. Then again it dosen't take much to amuse some people, or=20 bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:46:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Potato Starch in sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I appreciate all the input on my starch question. After reading the Bee Research Lab article by Roy Barker, it seems that many sugars are not good. He his even down on honey... fructose and glucose is not as good a feed as sucrose! But his final statement is difficult to apply. He says toxic is not a matter of the quality of a material. It "simply means too much." So, knowing that there is 3% starch (and the package specifies potato starch), is that simply too much? One other question that some of you might be able to clear up. There is a precipitate that falls to the bottom when this sugar is made into syrup. I assume this to be the starch which is insoluble. If I decant the liquid above the sediment (this is mentioned in the archives) will I avoid or limit the starch going to the bees? Thanks again for all your expertise. Larry Krengel :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:52:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Potato Starch in sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul said: There is an article which might sway your decision out of favour of using the starch, here is the website if you are interested. http://www.beesource.com/pov/usda/abjfeb1977.htm After reading the above article I wonder if Larry & his group could not reduce risks from feeding the sugar/starch product further (if they decide to feed the product) by instead of using say 4-6 bags of the sugar /starch product to a fifty five gallon drum use a couple bags and the equivalent of say three bags in 42% or 55% fructose from the bee supply house? The above article talks about products which were toxic by itself being made non toxic by thinning with syrup. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:41:12 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Japanese Pagoda Tree - Sophora Japonica. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am looking for trees/shrubs that are good nectar sources for honeybees in August & September (or later). Does anyone have any experience with this plant as a nectar source? It's supposed to bloom in late summer and attract bees. Thank you. Waldemar :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:59:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Lifted from BeeL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 25/04/2004 05:02:34 GMT Standard Time, James Kilty writes: > I used to think we always had 2 good weeks in May and again in July, when > we'd get a good crop from the sycamore (etc) > > James, > > I was adding a 3rd and a 4th super to a hive in urgent need (single national > BB) this evening when I was very surprised to see the flower buds on the > adjacent sycamores are about to open. It is often said that all beekeeping is > local but it is amazing how much the microclimate varies within a small area. > In this particular location blackthorn was flowering at the end of January > whereas it is only now in full bloom in other places only a few miles away. > > For the benefit of other readers, you are about 150 miles SW of me and, by > rights, ought to have a warmer climate. > > Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:09:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Potato Starch in sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry said: One other question that some of you might be able to clear up. There is a precipitate that falls to the bottom when this sugar is made into syrup.I assume this to be the starch which is insoluble. I believe one of the commercial beekeepers I had talked to when we were cosiderering feeding the "Domino brand frosting" said it might be able to decant the starch out but I am sure he did not say he had tried and was succesful at decanting the starch out. If your group would decide not to try and feed the sugar/starch product I would guess you could most likely recover your investment from a large commercial beekeeper which would simply add enough fructose to cut the starch level lower than the 3% original level or like the beekeeper I ran across simply mix , feed and report no problems. Two of the commercial beekeepers I talked to offered me about *half* what I had bid on the domino frosting I had so I declined and was looking for a better way to get my money back when a beekeeper came along and said there was not enough starch to cause a problem with flying bees. I do not remember the amount of starch in the domino brand but would guess in the 3 to 5% range. 4000 pounds of your product will make over ten barrels of feed which is a small amount of bee feed in the large operation. Many times the commercial beekeeper is the only person bidding on freight damaged sugar. It would be a shame to send 4000 pounds of even scrap sugar/starch to a land fill when a method surely exists for the product to be used as bee feed for *poor starving bees*! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:49:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Bee VAC with long extension cord In-Reply-To: <200404250401.i3P3dWKJ006966@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An alternative to a looooonng extension cord would be a converter that plugs into your cigarette lighter and then plugging your shop vac into the converter. Be sure to make sure the converter is strong enough to carry the high startup amperage of the shop vac. These converters go all the way up to 5000 watts, but the higher wattage units need to wired in through a fused device directly to your batter. A good source would be any of the larger truck stops along the interstates. Mike south-central Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:38:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Infrared vision of honeybees In-Reply-To: <200404250401.i3P3dWKJ006966@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit davidbrowder@lexcominc.net wrote: the idea hit me to try putting a INFRARED cyalume lightstick at the hive entrance of a old non lumunious bottom board hive.-----This is like the standard shake and break light sticks you can buy but the plastic tube filters out all of the light but infrared. The only way one can tell if it's working or not is to use night vision equipment. It was working pretty good, couldn't see any glow from it as I held it in my hand but was visible from 100 yards away with my night vision monocular. When I put it at the hive entrance several hundred bees covered it up, half an hour later there was still a full "front porch" of em checking it out. Animated and moving around on the entrance like they can see from the infrared illumination, which is lit up like a 24 hour convienence store with the night vision monocular. Thought the above note might be of interest to some BEE-L subscribers. MIKE south-central Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:13:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Bee Equipment at Auction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LeavesFYI, Just looking over the Auction Exchange on line auction listing. Next Saturday, 5/1 there is an auction in Linden, MI that advertises Bee Equipment. No specifics listed. The Web site for the auction exchange is www.eauctionexchange.com. The auctioneer's name and phone are listed as is the location. If more interested in what is there, rather than try to get an auctioneer to return my calls, I reverse directory the address and get the owners phone number. Just a note, I am not a representative for the Auction Exchange, any auction company or associated with the owner, just an auction attendee with my own agenda. I would be going myself if I didn't have to work next week. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:06:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 24 Apr 2004 to 25 Apr 2004 (#2004-116) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello folks. The Spanish translation for starch is almidon (not amidon). Some starches are too complex for digestion; potato starch is one of the less complex. I do not know if it is/or not digested by honey bee enzymes. Fall flowering plants harvested by honey bees: Aster Best regards and God bless. Dr. Rodriguez __________________________________________________________________ Introducing the New Netscape Internet Service. Only $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:36:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Seiler Apiaries Subject: Re: Bee VAC with long extension cord MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > An alternative to a looooonng extension cord would be a converter that > plugs into your cigarette lighter and then plugging your shop vac into > the converter. Be sure to make sure the converter is strong enough to > carry the high startup amperage of the shop vac. These converters go > all the way up to 5000 watts, but the higher wattage units need to wired > in through a fused device directly to your batter. A good source would > be any of the larger truck stops along the interstates. Mike > south-central Alabama There are also cordless models out there that would probably do a good job. I've been eying Dewalts cordless shop vac--all my other tools take the same battery. If I could just manage to get a hold of an extra $100.00... Frank, the obsessive-compulsive tool addict. http://www.seilerbees.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Bee-vac, long cord MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What you want is an inverter. Harbor Freight has a 2000 watt unit for = about 200 dollars. This would be about minimum size to run a motor. It = come with cables the size of jumper cables. Anything you could plug in a = cigarette lighter wouldn't be heavy enough. Dickm :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:49:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Albert Cannon Subject: infra red MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit as bees are not supposed to see the red end of the spectrum then perhaps putting something in the entrance that gives off an infra red light may only attract the bees due to there being something solid there and not just the infra red!? albert __________________________________________________ Broadband from an unbeatable £15.99! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/home.html?code=SM-NL-11AM :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:52:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE EYES IN THE DARK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently attended a lecture by Professor Chris Wilkinson at the Devon Apicultural Research Group AGM. He is convinced that bees are sensitive to, and make use of, the infra-red waveband. However, he says that the instruments they use for the purpose are not their eyes but their antennae. Chris > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:18:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Don Campbell Subject: queen storage Hi all, I'm having some queens delivered the end of this week. My problem is I need to store some of them for 7 to 10 days, due to a shipping snafu. I'm looking for the best way to store the caged queens for this time period. I just searched the archives for an answer and was wondering if anyone has any new suggestions. Thanks, Don upstate NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:59:46 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Lifted from BeeL In-Reply-To: <65.27e1653f.2dbd8ea8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <65.27e1653f.2dbd8ea8@aol.com>, CSlade777@AOL.COM writes >> For the benefit of other readers, you are about 150 miles SW of me and, by >> rights, ought to have a warmer climate. I have been watching winter temperatures and regularly Dorset was a few degrees warmer. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:00:29 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: S&S Peacey Subject: Re: queen storage In-Reply-To: <200404262318.i3QMpqJH007517@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If storing for 7 to 10 days suggest making up a queenless nuc and place the queen cages in a frame and placing the frame into the nuc. Thinking of an article in either Bee Culture or ABJ, one beekeeper successfully kept queens in such a set up for a few weeks at a time and would take the nuc around his sites, extracting a queen cage as necessary. If I was doing it, I would take frames with open brood, and therefore young hive bees to place in the nuc and maybe shake young bees into the nuc. These bees will likely be more accepting of queens. I would set up the nuc, leave it overnight and then place the frame with cages in the next morning. To be safe, I would ensure that the queens could keep out of harm's way inside the cage. Eg. If it is a plastic cage open on both sides, I would put some tape one side. If placing the cages back to back, place a piece of something (thin aluminium works well) between the cages. Can't remember whether the nuc was flying or non-flying, probably non-flying. Others more experienced will tell you whether to take out the attendants or not! Simon and Sarah Peacey, Wairua Apiaries, 76 Malone Rd, R.D.9, Whangarei, NZ 09-4346-344 021-0319-127 or129 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:38:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: davidbrowder Subject: Re: infra red MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Laid it down as gently as possible but that might be. I do a little migratory beekeeping and I've seen bees surround empty entrance feeders when I put them back in the entrance at night, they've always gone back inside after a few minutes though. Next time (In the next week or two) I'll try suspending the stick from a string over the entrance. Got a bunch of infrared light sticks, but until now I've never figured out a use for em. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Cannon" To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: [BEE-L] infra red > as bees are not supposed to see the red end of the spectrum > then perhaps putting something in the entrance that gives off > an infra red light may only attract the bees due to there being something > solid there and not just the infra red!? > albert > > __________________________________________________ > Broadband from an unbeatable £15.99! > > http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/home.html?code=SM-NL-11AM > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:04:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: OhioBeeFarmer Subject: Re: Bee VAC with long extension cord MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I find using a gas powered leaf blower works great. The gas operation makes it very portable and the suction end works well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Bee VAC with long extension cord :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:28:35 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Shop-vac for bee vacuum? In-Reply-To: <000801c42a0e$9be918f0$6300a8c0@ecapital83wvji> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Matt said: ANY(!) shop vac will quickly kill every bee you get ahold of. Agree, but also a warning!!! If you use too much suction, you will also end up with massive amounts of alarm pheromone being released. We've been sucking up bees for research sampling for 30 years. My first design was aimed at lots of bees, fast. Big mistake!!! I used the resultant pictures showing blankets of bees on ME and hasty exits (RUN!! - fortunately I was a lot slimmer and faster then) to illustrate the point that small procedural mistakes in sampling can make a world of differ in the outcome. Regards Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:12:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Re: infra red In-Reply-To: <001101c42c09$2b7f3020$a5e090cf@hppav> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Laid it down as gently as possible but that might be. I do a > little migratory beekeeping and I've seen bees surround empty > entrance feeders when I put them back in the entrance at > night, they've always gone back inside after a few minutes > though. Next time (In the next week or two) I'll try > suspending the stick from a string over the entrance. Got a > bunch of infrared light sticks, but until now I've never > figured out a use for em. Another interesting test would be to place a previously used, burned out stick in the hive entrance. If the bees congregate around that, then it is not the IR that attracted them. Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:52:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Excessive quotes in responses to BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Please remember the guidelines when posting to BEE-L. Top on the list is: 1. Do not include excessive quotes of previous submissions. If you must quote previous postings, include only what is necessary to make your point. Submissions that include the entirety of previous posts will be rejected without comment or notice. More than a few posts die in my in-basket due to excessive quotes! Sincerely, Aaron Morris BEE-L Owner/Moderator/Janitor :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:14:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: queen storage On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, Don Campbell wrote: "I'm having some queens delivered the end of this week...I need to store some of them for 7 to 10 days...I'm looking for the best way to store the caged queens for this time period." Don, There are several things that you can do: First, call the queen breeder ASAP and set back the shipping date. Most queen breeders will understand your situation and work with you as they really want your queens to survive and prosper. In lieu of rescheduling several conditions should be considered: 1) Do you have at least one hive(s) available to bank your caged queens and is it strong enough to carry out this task? 2) Are hives subject to clustering temperatures? 3) How many queens do you need to bank? 4) Just how long must those queens be banked? With the above in mind the following might help: If you do not have a hive available you will need to keep the queens in a warm, dark place. Temperature is important as your queens must not be chilled nor be too warm and dry. Storage temperatures of around 68-75 degrees work well. Upon arrival draw a fresh cup of water and with the tip of your finger take off a drop of water and spread it across the screen-or plastic ventilation holes of the cage. The attendants in the cages will tell you just how much water they need, but do not give too much water at once, just a drop at a time and usually they will not need more than three drops total in a day. You should give water in this manner once a day until you are able to install your queens in the manner that you intended. I have had fairly good results for up to 10 days with this method, but I give caution as this does put stress on your queens that may have an effect down the road. One very important consideration is number two (2) above, "Are hives subject to clustering temperatures?" Tonight, on April 27th the temperature will fall here to about 38 degrees which will assure clustering, I would imagine that in upstate New York you will have periods of cold weather for still quite some time. During cluster the brood nest is warm and protected as much as possible by all available workers within the hive. As temperatures decrease the cluster becomes more compact and brood left outside the compacted cluster will chill and die. If you place queens in a hive to be banked outside the cluster they will chill and die. If you intend to bank queens inside a hive when weather conditions are such that clustering may occur then it is imperative that the queens be placed within the middle of the brood nest. In addition catch the resident queen and if you wish to keep her cage her and place her in with the other caged queens being careful to avoid placing cages in such proximity that any one queen could sting and kill another. If the resident queen is allowed to run free you just may find queens dead in cages having been stung and killed by the resident mother. Any one hive has only just so much capacity to safely protect and feed its brood and the additional queens that you may have banked. The stronger the hive the greater its banking capacity. You have to use some judgment here to determine banking capacity per hive as there are many factors and variables that must be considered including number of queens, size of queen cages, methods of storing cages inside the cluster, strength of hive, etc, etc.. Remember, as temperatures fall clustering becomes a factor and the size of the cluster must be large enough to protect your banked queens as well as a substantial amount of brood. Another factor to consider is just how long are you planning to bank your queens. A queen in a cage along with attendants will not survive being banked as long as a queen in a cage without attendants. The attendants will usually die first which leaves the queen by herself with a bunch of dead decaying workers. Its best to bank your queens without attendants. Also, a solitary queen is easier to gain acceptance when introducing her to her new home. In warmer weather queens can be banked above the brood nest separated by a queen excluder. You still need a hive strong enough to support the queens that you are banking. Banking is temporary, but you can keep queens banked for a month or longer if needed given you have taken the right steps to assure that your queens will be well taken care of by their surrogate tellers who have invested their time and interest in order to assure continued care and viability of your queens. One more thing, thank those workers when you take that queen out and make a withdrawal; they have done both you and your queen an immense favor simply by offering their charity. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:21:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: queen storage In-Reply-To: <200404262318.i3QMpqJH007517@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-30451180; boundary="=======3E9C381F=======" --=======3E9C381F======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-30451180; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >I'm looking for the best way to store the caged queens for 7 to 10 days, >Don I've stored many queens over an excluder, and seen unused queens remain alive for months, after the attendants had been long dead. Pick a strong colony, with the cluster in the top body. Remove the covers, place an excluder on top, and a rim (empty shallow super?) on the excluder. The queen cages go screen down, side by side on the center of the excluder..as many as 25 at a time. Place a cloth...I use wool...over the cages, completely covering the excluder. This holds in the heat, and prevents chilling of the queens when the cluster recedes on a cold night. My excluder is an old 7 wire type that has wooden slats between every 7 excluder wires. I place the cages on these slats, spanning the wires. This creates a little space so the bees can cluster right on the screens.. I might cut 1/4" shims if I used an all wire excluder. Mike --=======3E9C381F=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:47:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: queen storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike said: I've stored many queens over an excluder, and seen unused queens remain alive for months, after the attendants had been long dead. I guess I will be the only person to object to queen banks. I strongly believe a queen cage should only be a method of transporting a queen from the queen breeder to the beekeeper or used in itroduction. Example of how picky myself and my partner are: We want our queen orders shipped if possible the day the queens are caged. Regardless of the prearranged shipping date if the queen breeder has allready filled my order then ship my order. we get upset when the express mail takes longer than two days. This year most queen shipments out of California & Hawaii have taken four days. We get free shipping if the express mail is over two days. We would rather pay the shipping and get our queens in two days. Our standard rule is a battery box (box holding 100 queens) are installed in hives/nucs within two days. If not we call another beekeeper and sell what we can't install . Almost every year I sell part of a battery box if I can't use within two days and I also will buy part of a battery box from another beekeeper so we do not have to bank queens. Both my partner and I will install a caged queen in a small nuc so she can start laying and come back in a couple weeks and recage her if I know I /we will need queens before another shipment arrives. These recaged queens are quickly accepted by the bees. Dr. Hoffman has shown that pheromone levels drop to low levels with a queen which has been caged for awhile which causes in her opinion introduction problems. The number one reason I see for queens being banked is by beekeepers which order more queens than brood they have got to make up nucs. I say find a home for (sell to another beekeeper) or as Chuck suggests change the delivery date or try to set up the practice of installing or putting queens in small nucs instead of banking queens for weeks. I do not know what the problem is this year with express mail but the delivery time is double last year. I know many beekeepers are thrilled with getting queen shipping for free but consider if not profitable we may lose a valuable method of getting queens if express mail decides handling queens is a losing proposition. I agree with the methods posted on queen banking by Simon , Sarah ,Chuck, Mike and others but I see queens which have been in the cage for weeks as *in my opinion* less than desirable. I see queen banking as an option but *in my opinion*the last option. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:58:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: queen storage Bob Harrison penned, "Both my partner and I will install a caged queen in a small nuc so she can start laying and come back ....Dr. Hoffman has shown that pheromone levels drop to low levels with a queen which has been caged for awhile which causes in her opinion introduction problems." A point that I would like to supplement the above is that the caged queen's diet and her daily activity has changed quite drasticly in a very short period of time. A queen purchased from a good queen breeder is pulled and caged only after she is laying a good pattern. Such a queen is like an athlete in that she is running full bore, laying a good pattern, and is being fed royal jelly; if you stop her laying activity, and change her diet it really throws her a curve. And starting up all over again from "idleness to full speed ahead" takes time and is hard on her systems. And yes, the pheromone machine also takes time to turn back on and get up to "full speed". Bob has made some very good points, his attitude about banking is IMO quite valid, one should bank only as a last resort. We all want queens that are productive, laying at maximum rate viable eggs in good patterns producing prolific honey making workers. In order to assure that goal we need to order only queens that we will use or need within a very short period of time from the queen breeder. It is far better to keep a queen in a nuc than in a cage. In a nuc she is going about her business of being a laying queen while being treated as THE QUEEN. A queen caged is not quite herself. Most queen breeders will allow the scheduling of deliveries with one total order. This has the advantage that the total amount of queens ordered is matched to the total discounted quantity rate, and just the extra postage if any is required from the purchaser. Here everyone wins, the queen breeder, the buyer, and the queens ordered are not put on hold and kept idle for very long. Chuck Norton Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:18:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: queen storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Bob H. admits that his views are not mainstream on this topic, however I think the question is not 'do we bank or not', but 'how long is it acceptable to bank'. I have done queen banking on a fairly small scale, but very often, and by many methods (even banking three 'hair roller' cages within mating nucs). I have also banked a few virgins (which is less successful). However I do not reckon that it is good to keep queens in cages for much more than a week and if they have been mailed then that shortens the time that they should be banked for. If I could not utilise them within a week I would give them away rather than try to keep them longer. However you have frames of bees and brood in many other colonies and it should be possible to make up three frame nucs to get over the problem. If you have small framed mating nucs then it should be possible to rob enough frames from those colonies whose queens are being tested for laying ability. This is the ultimate in queen banking... Once a queen is in a nuc of any sort the length of time becomes unimportant, because the nuc is self supporting and the queen is doing her natural job. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:29:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: queen storage In-Reply-To: <000b01c42cc2$d4d7b340$16bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-66957104; boundary="=======3B3165D4=======" --=======3B3165D4======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-66957104; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No, not true. I only related how to set up a queen bank. I too don't like queen banking. The "fresher" the queens, the better to introduce them. But, a queen bank is better than my kitchen counter! Mike Bob said >I guess I will be the only person to object to queen banks. I strongly >believe a queen cage should only be a method of transporting a queen from >the queen breeder to the beekeeper or used in itroduction. --=======3B3165D4=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:34:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: 2004 Russian Queen update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I received my share of the Russian/Russian queens last Sunday. Due to my rotator cuff surgery I installed 62 hives on four way pallets and put three into nucs. I sold 34 to my partner and gave three to a beekeeper friend which has been coming out to help me when I have got a job which requires a beekeeper and not hired help. He is a certified master beekeeper. All were installed in nucs/ hives within 36 hours. I could easily have used all 102 queens but when I saw I could not get installed within our time frame (due to my hurt wing) I elected to find a good home for the rest of the ladies. My friends were thrilled to get the Russian/Russians to try . I released mine after five days caged due to the introduction problems I had last year. I did not have any introduction problems this year and and found only one queen dead in a cage when I went to release the queens. I have got 64 installed and hopefully laying. These Russian queens were grafted from a Russian II breeder queen from Glenn Apiaires and open mated to another Russian/Russian line on a 2500 acre ranch in California. One can never say for sure about open matings but we went to a huge amount of effort to control the open mating by setting up many drone colonies on the ranch. When these queens arrived they were four days late and at the Kansas City airport. I was shocked to see all the queens were light colored! Last years were black to dark brown. Because these queens are an important part of my testing of the Russian bee to see if the Russian bee might work in our area and need less treatment for varroa & tracheal mites than the bees we have been using I needed to make sure I got the bees I ordered and a mistake had not happened (mistakes happen) and I was shipped regular production queens. Even though was Sunday night I called the queen breeder in California and talked to the breeder. She said she thought the bees were Russian/ Russian but the person which filled the order would be in tommorrow and she would check and call me back. She did the next morning and the bees were yellow/orange Russian/Russian from the ranch project. I had not talked to Charlie Harper (BEE-L) in awhile and I was so puzzeled by the light color of the queens I called Charlie in Lousiana. Charlie said color was not a marker for the Russian bee this year as he had sent a light colored queen when he sent Glenn Apiaries this years breeder queens. I can't help but think the workers will be dark as the drone source I would think would be dark bees. Charlie said the workers would most likely be from gray to black in color. I guess I will find out in a couple weeks. When time came to release the queens the only person around to help was my wife. She hardly ever helps with actual working of the hives but offered to release the queens while I looked on to recage a queen if the queen was being balled. I think she really enjoyed the project of watching the queens climb out of the cage. Last year I recaged about half after five days because they were trying to ball the queen. None this year which I have no explanation for. I did see something I never saw before. One queen kept trying to sting the workers.I checked the nuc for another queen but not so. I had cut a couple queen cells from the nuc. I picked her up and held her for a minute (kind of like time out) but when I put her back on the frame she started trying to sting workers again. They were not fighting back so I recaged her and returned about two hours later. Was getting dark so I sprayed her and the workers with a sugar /solution and released her figuring she would get over her rage at her new subjects by the time they had all cleaned up the syrup. Have any beekeepers on the list seen a queen trying to sting workers when released before? Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:55:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Bassett Subject: Re: 2004 Russian Queen update On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:34:38 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: >Hello All, >I received my share of the Russian/Russian queens last Sunday. > > >I released mine after five days caged due to the introduction problems I >had last year. I did not have any introduction problems this year and and >found only one queen dead in a cage when I went to release the queens. I >have got 64 installed and hopefully laying. could you give an update on how you found the russians that you used last year were? like temperment and honey production. Did you install the new queens into italian or russian hives? thanks mike bassett new york (mine are due in a couple of weeks) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:06:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Where to get it Subject: Re: Oxalic acid Comments: To: Alfred Meier Oxali Acid is "wood bleach." We use it all of the time in our shop, but can be purchased cheaply at any store that sell products for cleaning wood; decks,etc. You have to be carefull when purchasing it as a "deck brightener," as it may not be pure. We buy it in 5# canisters, but I just saw it at a local hardware store packed in a 1# tub by "DAP<" it is labeled simple "Wood Bleach." Hope this helps...BTW< made my own evaporator, and will try it tonight...JK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:11:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Drutchas Subject: Stinging queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've seen it a few times where the queen comes out fighting as if to show she isn't anything to be messed with. It appears to be a good tactic. More often I will see her start laying holding her legs high up to say I'm a laying queen leave me alone. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:32:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: HarrisonRW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 04/28/2004 2:22:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jbkriebel@SPEAKEASY.NET writes: > Oxali Acid is "wood bleach." We use it all of the time in our shop, but > can be purchased cheaply at any store that sell products for cleaning wood; > decks,etc. The kind I use is "Rainbow Pure Oxalic Acid" made by Empire Blended Products Inc. Bayville, NJ 08721 A one pound box will cost about $5.00 and last you a very long time. The easiest place to find it is at a store that specializes in paints. I have had good results when vaporizing it. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:19:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 2004 Russian Queen update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit could you give an update on how you found the russians that you used last year were? I did not send the Russians to Almonds so I could see the way they wintered in Missouri. Most came out of winter with small clusters. Ok for the hobby beekeeper but a drawback if you need brood for splits or planning on renting hives for apple pollination. The main reason *in my opinion* commercial beekeepers are not on the Russian or carniolan bandwagen in many parts of the U.S. is simply you can not bring a hive into an orchard with a small cluster and get top dollar. If you are selling nucs you need brood. > like temperment and honey production. We had the worst drought in a 100 years in our area last summer so I really can't say about honey production. Will take a few normal years to get an idea. Temperment of the Russian hybrid was good. I bought Russian/Russian and was told later I got a Russian/NWC cross. The new owner of the company said I got a hybrid (crossed with NWC drones) but the now deceased owner had indicated I was getting a Russian/Russian bee. Regardless those drone source hives drones are Russian/Russian. Complicated subject but one which I have covered in the archives. I tried to find a source of Russian/ Russian in the U.S.through Charlie Harper (provides only breeder queens) but could only find Russian hybrids being called Russian. I finnally located a California queen breeder which set up a remote mating yard and Russian drone colonies and he provided as close as I can tell around fifteen beekeepers with Russian/Russian so we can evaluate the Russian bee ourselves. > Did you install the new queens into italian or russian hives? We used brood from four different yards . The brood and bees were both Russian/Russian ,Russian/ Carniolan , Italian/carniolan and Italian . >thanks mike bassett new york (mine are due in a couple of weeks) I am always interested in hearing about experiements with bees run by beekeepers (and have to wonder why many times we get so different results than researchers do). Find out from your queen breeder what the queen source is ( Russian II queen is best) and then what the drone source is. If they are production queens (priced similar to other on the market queens) they are open mated. Ask your queen breeder the drone source. All the Russian i found available this year were grafted from a Russian breeder queen and then open mated to the most popular line used by the queen breeder (which make those workers a Russian hybrid and NOT Russian/Russian). The problem I have had over the last two years is gettin U.S. queen breeders to *understand* what the hell a few of us beekeepers are talking about. Myself and a handful of beekeepers simply want to install and evaluate the Russian line as imported into the U.S.. There is an excellent chance from what I see so far I will be requeening with my favorite line of Italians in the end but we simply want to see for ourselves if the Russian bee (which has very little carniolan and Italian blood as imported) will do as those in the USDA claim the bee will do. All but the California queen breeder went on and on about the hybrid being the better bee. Which may be but why should the U.S. queen breeders decide for the rest of us that we do not need to ever test the Russian/Russian bee in our apiaries? The truth is not many queen breeders are ABLE to set up a remote site to produce the Russian/Russian production queen. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::