From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:52:51 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.6 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05064907F for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDdDKX012145 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0405C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 69134 Lines: 1526 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:41:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Collett Subject: queen introduction Dear all I was wondering if anybody knows of any special techniques that are necessary when introducing new queens to a hive. I have read about all of you in the states trying various different queens (Buckfast, Italian, Russian etc.). When introducing these queens to the hives, is there any problem with egg acceptance? Do the workers readily accept and rear eggs from a somewhat different type of bee without problem? If you were to transfer one frame of eggs (unhatched eggs laid by a queen) from a hive of one subspecies, to a hive of another subspecies, would the bees accept and rear brood from this? Interested in your reply. many thanks Paul Collett Rhodes University Department of Entomology/Makana Meadery Grahamstown South Africa A.m. capensis A.m. scutellata :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:38:24 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Imidacloprid update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that bee-l would be the best forum in which to discuss the results of the study that has been going on in Prince Edward Island, Canada about the causes of the bee losses here and their relationship to pesticide use, with primary emphasis (in the first year in particular) on imidacloprid. The study also included hives in New Brunswick. I am hopeful that perhaps the Bayer scientists Veldon Sorenson or Robert Steffens might respond on the list, or that the principal researchers Jim Kemp and Dick Rogers will comment. As a background to this post I might remind people that imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide that goes under various trade names (Admire and Gaucho are two major ones) that is manufactured by Bayer (Agrochemical division) and is one of the most used pesticides in the world now. It is highly toxic to bees and its use in France has been restricted for several years because of beekeeper protest. I also would remind the beekeepers on this list that Prince Edward Island has an unusually high percentage of its cropland (about 20%) in potatoes and that the majority of the potatoes are either leaf treated with imidacloprid or soil injected with imidacloprid. I had originally complained that a few years after the introduction of this pesticide my hives began showing signs of doing poorly in the summer and my winter losses were increased greatly. My first complaint was made the year BEFORE varroa came to PEI. The first year of the study looked at the levels of imidacloprid in the soil in the first and second years following potatoes in the normal potato-grain-hay rotation and in goldenrod in the field margins and in the leaves and flowers of clover (in the hay) and in the nectar of bee stomach contents. The soil showed significant amounts (we already knew that the half life of the insecticide is about a year and a half in potato soil here). The leaves of clover showed small amounts in a few samples but the flowers had insignificant amounts and none was found in nectar or pollen. There were no wax samples taken that year. The people from Bayer said that the chemical was hydrophilic / lipophobic (likes water/ doesn't get absorbed in oils or waxes) and so would not be found in wax. It was not until the end of that year that I heard of the class action beekeeper lawsuit in the US in which wax was said to be where the compound was found. The second year of the study looked at a broader range of factors. The question was not limited to imidacloprid, but was to try and identify what the cause of the bee decline was, and looked at many of the other compounds commonly used in the fields here in addition to imidacloprid. The results are now in from the sample analyses of the study. I do not have a copy of the exact figures, but hope that Dick or Jim or Veldon will post them to this list for comment. I think that what is interesting is the results from some hives in New Brunswick that were on seed canola following potatoes. These hives showed residues from imidacloprid used the previous year. It showed up in honey, pollen AND wax. The amounts are in the 2 to 6 ppb range I believe, and I am sure that the company will say that these amounts are below the NOAEC (no observed ADVERSE effect concentration). But they are not below the NOEC (no observed effect concentration). The proboscis extension test shows an effect at about 6 ppb. There is a picture of Madame Pham-Delegue performing this test in Bayer's own book on imidacloprid and bees. These amounts are also from residues that are coming from a non target crop the year after treatment, which is problematic to say the least IMHO. But I hope that the discussion will not be just an argument about what levels are lethal, or sublethal, or produce damage when chronic. To me what has been most troubling about the study is this: The researchers were shown hives by beekeepers here that exhibited a very specific syndrome, that I call "disappearing bee syndrome". It is characterized by a hive that was doing well suddenly being left with a queen and a small handfull of bees. There are often a half dozen or more frames of brood and the brood is usually full of chalkbrood and often EFB as well. But I do not think that these diseases are the cause, because they could not account for an adult population plummeting from what could have cared for 6 big frames of brood to one or two hundred bees in such a short time that there are still a few living larva on the frames despite the fact that the tiny cluster usually abandons the now diseased and starving brood area for a small patch of clean comb. One beekeeper here has taken one of these queens and put her with fresh bees on fresh comb and she headed up a healthy colony. The researchers have not, in my opinion, come up with any explanation for this despite several years of studying a huge range of factors. I hope they will speak for themselves to the beekeepers on this list, but personally I do not find that management, nutritonal factors, queen quality, or disease can explain the syndrome. I know that in my case I do not have AFB, requeen a large percentage of hives in the spring, practice overcelling, and am a more experienced manager than I was before the syndrome appeared (and remember, the problem began before varroa but after imidacloprid). I also know that in the yards where I winter, which are composed of several summer yards, the mortality is vastly different between groups coming from different summer yards (some groups show two or three times the mortality of others). Another fact worthy of note is that the largest beekeeping operation in the Maritimes has kept some hives on PEI for a couple of years now, overwintering in an indoor facility similar to what they have in Nova Scotia with about three time the mortality here in PEI. I hope this post will stimulate some informed discussion. It would be really useful if the researchers would actually post some of the results here. Regards Stan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:10:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 13 May 2004 to 14 May 2004 (#2004-135) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello folks. Just a quick and short thought of my view of commercial abuse of industrial products that make bundles of dollars for the producers and unthinkable damage to the environment. It seems to me that "Poncho" is just an attempt at disguising the bad publicity that "Gaucho" developed. It seems that the change of names is just a ploy to continue to sell more of the same without regard for the most precious insect for the survival of humanity, the honey bee. And of course to all other little creatures that happen to share the fields with the honey bee. Best regards and God bless. Dr. Rodriguez __________________________________________________________________ Introducing the New Netscape Internet Service. Only $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:20:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Scutellata queen rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Paul & All, Your methods are very primitive. In fact most beekeepers moved away from those methods in the late 1880's. The method you are using was first done in the U.S. by O.H. Townsend in 1880. The method was improved by J. M. Brooks later the same year . I know of no beekeepers in the U.S. today which use either the the Townsend or Brooks methods if serious about a quality queen. In 1883 Henry Alley improved the above methods and the birth of modern queen rearing began in the U.S. You need to move from the Townsend/Brooks method you are currently using to at least the still primitive (in my opinion) 1883 Alley method. I can recommend excellent Queen rearing books Paul or by searching the archives using the names & dates I have provided you can retrace beekeeping history and improve your queen rearing and in my opinion the quality of the queens. That said. Henry Alley was the first (U.S.) to introduce the *swarming box*. The *swarming box * was prepared by shaking a huge number of bees from hives and became the *cell Builders* Your nuc is in my opinion too weak to produce queen cells as each day without a queen and emerging brood the population drops. You can create a cell builder to start the cells then give those cells (or just one) to your five frame nuc for hatching & mating. Good queen cells are produced when queen cells are built with a large population of bees so the cells are well fed and cared for. If you ever get the chance to tour a commercial queen rearing bee farm you will see what I am talking about. Always feed when trying the get queen cells made or introduce a queen! Gook luck ! I do not believe the weather is your problem. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:41:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richey Subject: abrupt decrease in water gathering This is my first post to Bee-L. I've had my bees trained on the bird bath (full of stones) as their water source, but just in the last 2-3 days I noticed an abrupt change in the number of bees there. Prior to this at any one time there were always a dozen or two bees and suddenly there were none (as in zero). What if any, is the correlation of water gathering to brood rearing? The weather has been the same over the past 10 days to 2 weeks. Richey L. Greenville, SC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 07:00:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Paul D. Law (aka Dennis)" Subject: Ming's Quest California Honey show on Fine Living channel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By accident I channel surfed into a show on the DirectTV satellite network Fine Living channel that would make a fine intro on bee keeping and cooking with honey: an episode of the Ming's Quest series titled "California Honey". The first part of the show involved driving up into a field, meeting a beekeeper, and delving into a working bee hive. Both beekeeper and the shows host were stung once, and bee stings were put into perspective. Honey was sampled, then harvested and bottled. The second half of the show illustrated cooking with honey and featured an Asian inspired dish made with pork loin. Sounded yummy. A show worth taping the next time it comes around. Crazy bell ringer was right. There's money to be made in a place like this. -The Man with No Name, A Fistful of Dollars :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 04:03:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Glen van Niekerk Subject: Re: Scutellata queen rearing Comments: To: Paul Collett Dear Paul, I have noted at the end of your post you state A.m. capensis and A.m. scutellata.Hmm....?!!!!! NOW: Are you sure you do not have A.m. capensis laying workers in your A.m. scutellata Hives? AKA: Cape bee problem. I run many A.m. scutellata hives and am very nervous when it comes to queen rearing..... I usually have a 30 to 40 % success rate, IF I am lucky! Failure is usually attributed to a contamination of A.m. capensis laying workers. Sincerely, Glen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:32:18 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Collett Subject: Re: Scutellata queen rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glen Wrote: > Are you sure you do not have A.m. capensis laying workers in your A.m. > scutellata Hives? AKA: Cape bee problem. > Dear Glen, Great to hear from a South African beekeeper! I am in Grahamstown which is in the hybrid zone. I have both capensis and scutellata. My scut colonies are in an isolated area, all other colonies were exterminated by a recent fire. I have performed ovariole counts on the bees personally and know for sure that they are scut. In addition, I have checked extensively for laying-worker activity (which I know well from my capensis hives) and there is no sign at all. When queenless, the bees go drone laying. A sure sign of scutellata. Where are you situated? I am interested to know because I have decided that capensis is a perfectly adequate bee, and there is no use in trying to fight them off in my area. I hence have only one scut apiary, used only for research. If I catch wild swarms, I always try to requeen with capensis to avoid the laying-worker problem. The problem is with egg acceptance. I struggle to get scut bees to accept capensis queen eggs. Do you, or does anyone else have answers to this? Many thanks Paul Collett Rhodes University Department of Entomology/ Makana Meadery Grahamstown South Africa A.m. capensis A.m. scutellata :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:37:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Mainland US Queens Now are Permitted into Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See http://canadianhoneyproducers.com/ allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:05:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Imidacloprid update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Stan & All, I doubt people from Bayer will comment as long as litigation is going on (has been the Bayer position in the past). The focus of my post is on pesticide problems in general and not on your specific problem or the class action lawsuit in the U.S. against Bayer. Bayer has a large plant & office in Topeka, Kansas and I have spoke with people from Bayer on many occasions. Manly when Bayer registered Checkmite. Checkmite (although blasted on BEE-L) saved many a commercial beekeeper from bankruptcy. Now varroa is resistant to Checkmite in many areas and in my opinion the future of many large commercial *pollination* operations is on the line. I will detail what I am talking about for the hobby beekeeper is they are interested but not in this post. >From my own personal expierence and the keeping of bees for over 40 years in the U.S. I can say that *proving* pesticide death in bees is hard against big companies. Their liability is in labeling. The buck then passes to the applicater. Since varroa has entered the picture powerful lawyers have been able to use varroa and other beekeeping problems to place doubt in the mind of juries. A cut & dried lawsuit in Florida went against the beekeepers in such a way. The researchers at Bayer (I have talked to and Bayer filmed a video about proper use of Checkmite with Midwestern beekeepers bees) are concerned about Imidacloprid being a possible cause of hive problems. They are far removed from the legal department which have been given the task of fighting litigation. Pesticide problems have always been around but began to lower in the 70's (U.S.) and the U.S.D.A. (U.S. 1978 I believe from memory) dropped the payment for hives killed by pesticides. Many lawsuits were filled against chemical companies by beekeepers years ago to no avail as proof beyound a reasonable doubt was hard to prove in court. The U.S.D.A. stepped in and provided a small bee replacement payment. Although the payment was about a fourth what the payment should have been (my opinion) the payment helped and was not hard to get. I am sure the U.S.D.A. paid for hives (at times) which did not die from pesticide kills but the USDA was (as it should have been ) concerned that loss of bees back then would cause beekeepers to give up beekeeping. Numbers of commercial beekeepers have dropped each year since I started beekeeping and I personally see the trend continuing. Many commercial honey producers have said if or when the current price of honey drops back to former low prices they are getting out (retiring). Large hive kills (U.S.) can not help but cause commercial beekeepers in those areas to consider getting out of beekeeping if faced with an unresolved Imidacloprid solution or a possible relocation to another part of the U.S. to get away from the problem. My friends Jerry B. & Eric M. have been trying to make the commercial beekeeping community aware of the rising problem of U.S. pesticide kills and wax contamination. So far their voices have been falling on deaf ears as shown by the small attendance at their talk at the ABF meeting last January in Jacksonville, Florida. At least Allen Dick and myself see the rising problem of imidacloprid use and other pesticide issues as a rising problem needing confrontation by all beekeeping associations and we attended. Many have rebelled against my *solution* to many pesticide kill problems as posted on BEE-L in the past but I find removing the hives from the areas of pesticide kills as the best solution. Has worked for me. Once I lose a yard to a farmer/grower not following label I am gone from the area. I will not set a yard within five miles of a grower using Penncap -M spray. Period! I used to listen to their stories of how they mow under the trees and only spray at dusk but hives kept dying so I knew the farmer/growers were lying to me. Attempts at getting paid for dead hives always failed. Looking forward to a discussion on your topic Stan but silence from the list is what I expect. I have no direct experience with imidacloprid nor have seen any losses over the last decade from pesticides I could not explain and get to the bottom of so will lurk on the side and try to learn from the discussion so I can be prepared for imidacloprid problems when they reach my area. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:21:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Imidacloprid update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bob Harrison wrote. > learn from the discussion so I can be prepared for imidacloprid problems > when they reach my area. This makes me wonder, "How would one know if/when imidacloprid is being used within the foraging area of their hives?". Is this public information or would one have to inquire of the farmers what they are using? I imagine such a determination would be easier in some areas (large monoculture agribusiness areas) and harder in others, such as my locations where suburbia continues its relentless onslaught on the once rural landscape. Frankly, I'm not sure how I would begin to determine if imidacloprid is an agent to consider in my area. I have in discussions of pesticide poisoning in general, wondered how does one know? For instance, Dave Green has many times mentioned pesticide kills in the height of winter (as if South Carolina had a clue about winter ;-), where hives succumb to poisoned pollen stored months earlier. Aside from testing, how can one know? If I lost a hive during winter (in upstate New York where winter was invented) I would look for more obvious reasons (starvation, mite stressors, poor beekeeping, severe weather) before I would look to pesticide poisoning. And even if I were to quickly jump to a pesticide poisoning conclusion, how would I begin to find the source? Where would I begin? Farm Bureau? Department of Soil Conservation? Cornell CoOperative Extension? This is not to say that if imidacloprid is not in my area I should not be concerned. Of course this is an issue of concern for all beekeepers whether they experience "disappearing bee syndrome" as Stan described or not. Perhaps this is part of the problem. From my perspective there are so many players (land stewards) that I cannot begin to know what everyone is using. The flip side to that coin is from a manufacturer's POV, there may be many more players involved than just big agribusiness. I guess this is why pesticide poisoning is such a hard case to prove and why pesticide manufactures continue to get away with so much. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:18:34 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Imidacloprid update In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A111663F05@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > learn from the discussion so I can be prepared for > imidacloprid problems > > when they reach my area. > > This makes me wonder, "How would one know if/when > imidacloprid is being used > within the foraging area of their hives?". Is this > public information or > would one have to inquire of the farmers what they > are using? you may look at http://www.apiservices.com/abeille-de-france/articles/intoxications_reagir.htm. This artcile has been published by a Belgium institute CARI in L'Abeille de France. They listed citeria to distinguish hive death by chronic poison (and weakness induced) from varroa/viruses death (Translation via any web tool if you do not unerstand French). I would be curious to see any geographic correlation between hives loss rates and culture on order to obtain a view independant from individual beekeeping practices. Hervé Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Dialoguez en direct avec vos amis grâce à Yahoo! Messenger !Téléchargez Yahoo! Messenger sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:14:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Imidacloprid update In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A111663F05@email.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Aaron asks:And even if I were to quickly jump to a pesticide poisoning conclusion, how would I begin to find the source? Where would I begin? That's precisely the issue that we've been looking at in Montana. At one time, the U.S. didn't have mites and for a short period, this country had a beekeeper indemnity program AND every state had an apiculture specialist. Most states have cut their bee inspection/registration/etc. programs. When one does have or suspects a pesticide related problem, nowadays, there's often no one who knows where to even start, much less sort out issues like mites, pesticides, environmental stressors, pollution, and interactions of any or all. Some progress has been made. EPA's Office of Environmental Monitoring and Assessment and its Office of Pesticides Programs co-hosted a workshop two week ago in New Port. With the assistance of the Council of Governor's, they brought in speakers from academia, the U.S. beekeeping industry, related disciplines, Pollinator conservation groups, and even Heather Clay from the Canadian Honey Council. We hope to carry these discussions to the next stage on July 13 in Missoula, MT as part of the Annual Meeting of the Western Apiculture Society, Holiday Inn Parkside. We invite all interested parties to attend/participate. Sincerely Jerry J. Bromenshenk Bee Alert, Univ. of MT President, Western Apiculture Society P.S. The WAS web page will be posted this week. The meeting is July 13-15, and includes a wide array of speakers, as well as tours of MT Naturals and Western Bee equipment manufacturers. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:21:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Imidacloprid update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Indeed in my opinion Bob Harrison method of dealing with growers who do not give a darn about effects of pesticides on the honeybees that they are renting is the best choice. His method is very simple, gc removing the hives from the areas of pesticide kills as the best solution. Has worked for me. Once I lose a yard to a farmer/grower not following label I am gone from the area.h I have a pollination customer who always claims he never sprays, I have never seen him spray; however, hive strength and honey yields over several years are statistically variant to the average honey yields of my operation. As you would guess I am skeptical of probable pesticide activity based on statistical analysis and am now thinking of leaving this seasonal contract at the end of this year. I also have a farmer/grower who uses methyl bromide under plastic in the fall prior to planting strawberries. This past year the plastic used had less thickness than in prior years resulting in shredding as it was stretched during row formation. It is my opinion that I lost all my hives on this particular operation due to methyl bromide gas forming a cloud over the field on a windless still night and encapsulated my hives. I have since learned that the North Carolina Department of Agriculture & Consumer services has the capability of testing freshly deceased honeybees. Thatfs right, they are now using Liquid Chromatograph/Mass Spectrometers, (LC/MS to jim) to identify pesticide kills. Of course this will only be able to identify the bees either killed inside their home or the ones who made it back to the hive and later died. Bees lost to pesticide spraying often never make it back to their hives. Aaron mentioned,h For instance, Dave Green has many times mentioned pesticide kills in the height of winter (as if South Carolina had a clue about winter ;-), where hives succumb to poisoned pollen stored months earlier.h To which I reply, one good thing is that the chemical industry is moving away from microencapsulated pesticide capsules. Unfortunately there are still farmers who have and use the stuff. Bees think that this is pollen and bring it back to the hive to store and feed brood. How the FDA could have allowed this stuff to hit the market in the first place is beyond common sense. Aaron also asked, gAnd even if I@were to quickly jump to a pesticide poisoning conclusion, how would I begin to find the source? Where would I begin?h Perhaps the New York State Dept. of Agriculture has a testing service like North Carolinafs. If not then perhaps the State Beekeepers Association could become a squeaky wheel. Finally, I went to the Lowes Home Improvement regional guru for their home and garden section and asked if they could work with me to establish some sort of educational display in proximity to their pesticide area which would serve to educate homeowners on how to use pesticides with minimal damage to honeybees and other pollinators. I really would have liked to see something develop; they were not interested. Chuck Norton Nortonfs Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:03:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: MiteGone manual MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Beekeepers: Bill Ruzicka sent me this email the other day. Mr Ruzicka’s business promotes formic acid and he sells the dispensing equipment for it. I’ve never used formic acid and have never comunicated with Mr. Ruzicka. Apparently he has many beekeeper names in his database. The manual might be of interest to some of you however, and can be downloaded as a pdf document from his website. I think it runs about 25 pages. Regards, Dick Allen Dear Dick: The new comprehensive manual is now available to download or print from our home page on www.mitegone.com. The manual includes: instruction, modification of treatment, acid requirements, verification testing materials, fall and spring test evaluations, respirators data, practical safety tips, legality and our treatment checklist. The MiteGone manual is a result from feedback and extensive updates on modification of treatments. If you are unable to download it let us know and we will send it to you as an attachment. Your truly, Bill :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:51:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: abrupt decrease in water gathering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lance, FWIW in the last 3 or 4+ days there has been an increase in relative humidity in your neck of the woods, and you are now in the heaviest part of the spring nectar honey flow for your area. The tulip poplar is now blooming prolifically in your area. (See American Bee Journal, Volume 144, NO. 1, January 2004 p. 43), That combined with good soil moisture, increased humidity and southern winds allows the tulip poplar to secrete prolific quantities of nectar. As the RH decreases evaporation of nectar from the pedals thickens the concentration of nectar and vice-versa, as it is it is my opinion that the nectar that is coming back to your hives from the tulip poplar and other sources is of a sufficient moisture content that local sources of water are not as needed as perhaps a week or two ago. This also means more work evaporating the un-ripened honey. Chuck Norton Nortonfs Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:40:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Imidacloprid update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Aaron & All, Aaron asks complicated and excellent questions. The best place to start the discussion is in the bee yard. 1. The most obvious pesticide kill is when you arrive at the bee yard and a huge number of dead bees are in front of the hive and on the bottom board. These kinds of kills were easy to collect on under the old USDA program. 2. Disappearing problem. This pesticide kill is when the poison kills the bees on the return flight. Easier to detect when you see a larger than normal amount of bees outside the front of the hive also. The larger beekeeper which is working his hives on a regular basis and has been monitoring the build up will notice the kill as usually all hives in the yard suddenly lose half to almost all the bees. Nurse bees, drones and the queen is unaffected. 3. Bee bringing back pollen from plants which have been sprayed. Has not ever been a problem for me but I have talked to beekeepers which have had the problem. At times they report only winter kill. Number 1 & 2 have been my experience. My problems have always been linked back to people which spray for hire *or* large orchards. Always a label violation was involved. The largest bee kills I have had were in the field right next to the bees (commercial spray for hire outfits) and the county spraying noxious weeds ( honey plants) in the middle of the day when they could see bees working the flowers! Samples sent to Beltsville will show pesticde problems but one has to act faster than the turn around time (at times several weeks) if you want to find the source of the problem. The above is a very general outline of bee pesticde kills from my point of view. Others may have a very different point of view. I would be interested in what other beekeepers see . Maybe others can address Aaron's New York State concerns! Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:30:13 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Imidacloprid update Bob said: > I have spoke with people from Bayer on many occasions. Manly when Bayer > registered Checkmite. Ummm, sorry Bob, but Bayer has never "registered" CheckMite. It remains a year-by-year "Section 18 Emergency Treatment", as it has been for years. I doubt if Bayer would be able to obtain a full registration for CheckMite, as the EPA, even under the current administration, has maintained the very reasonable goal of eliminating organophosphate use in agriculture as a whole. Aaron asked: > "How would one know if/when imidacloprid is being used within the foraging > area of their hives?". Is this public information or would one have to > inquire of the farmers what they are using? It certainly would not be public information. We had a hard time in our county just getting everyone to both own up to having some explosives "left over" from various projects, and to agree to store their explosives in an easier-to-secure centralized bunker. A melding between safety deposit boxes, a public library, cigar-store humidors, and a police impound lot. (Homeland security begins at home, ya know.) > And even if I were to quickly jump to a pesticide poisoning conclusion, > how would I begin to find the source? Where would I begin? Farm Bureau? > Department of Soil Conservation? Cornell CoOperative Extension? Forget the first two, they are sure to not have the proper equipment. Cornell should have both the hardware and skills. The Federal Bee Labs might be another option. Toxicology on bee kills is complicated, expensive, and often not enough of a "smoking gun" to get action in any venue. I'm sure that there are lots of beekeepers with a file folder full of lab results documenting a yard of dead hives wondering why they bothered to gather the samples. Those who watch TV know of the show "CSI" [Crime Scene Investigation], "CSI Miami", and more recently, "CSI New York". (Perhaps "CSI" actually stands for "Cloned Series Idea.") What we beekeepers lack are standards for gathering of samples, and proper protocols for handling samples that would meet the minimum requirements for evidence to be introduced in court. Bottom line, lots of hives have to die before anyone will consider any specific problem "serious". If the hive losses were cows, they'd call out the national guard to vaccinate herds. In fact, if a dairy farmer or cattle rancher loses a SINGLE cow or steer, it is a police matter the moment that any evidence of human intervention is found. Never mind that a single beehive can generate more revenue for a beekeeper in a year than a steer can for a cattle rancher, and is therefore "more valuable", you will never get any official attention to anything other than overt theft or vandalism to a yard. Imagine the conversation: Me: "Hi, I've lost 50 hives, and I'd like you to investigate." Sheriff: "What did they look like?" Me: "When I said 'lost', I meant they died, apparently of pesticide poisoning." Sheriff: "You want us to find out who killed your BEES?" Me: "Yes, thank you - I would." Sheriff: "Have you been out in the sun too much, Jim?" They buy the honey, but they still don't give a hoot about "bugs". jim (You haven't lived until you've been stung 40 times in 2 minutes, and afterwards, you don't want to.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:22:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Checkmite (was Imidacloprid update) Comments: To: jfischer@supercollider.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim & All,. Jim said: Ummm, sorry Bob, but Bayer has never "registered" CheckMite. It remains a year-by-year "Section 18 Emergency Treatment", as it has been for years. I doubt if Bayer would be able to obtain a full registration for CheckMite, as the EPA, even under the current administration, has maintained the very reasonable goal of eliminating organophosphate use in agriculture as a whole. Thanks to Jim for the clarification. Coumaphos will NEVER be given a full registration for the reason stated by Jim! Even getting a section 18 was hard for Bayer. Bayer was talked into bringing Checkmite to market (section 18) by beekeepers as coumaphos was the last chemical from the list of chemicals to control varroa which provided around a 99% control. I am puzzeled why ApiLife Var full registration is being held up. I thank the EPA for allowing two section 18's in many states (like Missouri) as normally they only allow one section 18 for a specific use. Checkmite came at a desperate time in beekeeping and with a high price in my opinion. Fluvainate resistance was widespread (tests in Georgia by Delaplane actually showed varroa loads increased while the Apistan strips were in in some hives). Research at time of the first section 18 for checkmite did not show over a 10PPM future coumaphos contamination problem in brood comb. After a few years Jeff Pettis announced to commercial beekeepers the contamination was higher and many beekeepers (myself) started culling brood comb. The high price is the contamination of brood comb. 25 PPm the first year and 50 PPm after two years of use. Long term use (4-5) years only produced a high of 75PPM. Many beekeepers (commercial) are not concerned with a 50-75PPM coumaphos level in broodcomb. I am and have been doing a brood comb removal program which has about removed all brood comb which ever had checkmite used . The above levels are from correct label use of Checkmite. Illegal use of a coumaphos product (I have been told by bee inspectors) produces a level of coumaphos contamination so high bees dwindle and die and will not even raise brood in the comb. A sure sign they tell me is patches of brood scattered through the hive. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:01:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Western Apiculture Society Annual Meeting, Missoula, MT July 13-15 Comments: cc: ENTOMO-L@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All: You are invited to attend and participate in the W.A.S. annual meeting this summer. We've posted a new web page with an agenda, dates, etc. http://beekeeper.dbs.umt.edu/WAS/ Dr. Gabe Patrick, EPA Office of Pesticides is our keynote speaker. We will host a national workshop on Pollinators and Pesticides, the State of the Nation, in conjunction with WAS. Dr. Patrick co-hosted an EPA meeting in NewPort two weeks ago to discuss these issues at EPA's annual Environmental Monitoring and Assessment Program review. Both the Office of Pesticides and EMAPS attended, as well as researchers, bee specialists, conservation groups, and a representative from the Canadian Honey Council. It is our goal to establish an annual meeting to discuss pesticide issues as they effect beekeepers, growers, the public, and other stakeholders. Our hope is to reduce the finger pointing and provide a venue where we can opening discuss the problems facing the industry, conservation groups, and our nation's agricultural and wildlands. We were encouraged by Gabe's efforts to pull together people to discuss these issues in NewPort, especially in view of cancellation of a workshop to discuss Imidacloprid, and the growing number of legal suits in the U.S. involving bees and pesticides. Obviously, all of this (pesticide kills or not) is confounded by mites, agricultural monocultures, loss of habitat, etc.; plus cut backs in state regulatory/inspection services. The growing use of chemicals inside hives for mite control is also of concern. There are no simple answers, but here's an opportunity to get the issues out on the table. Please join us in Montana. If this meeting is well attended, it is far more likely that we can establish an annual review of the State of the Nation for issues such as these. FYI, the agenda is not set in stone. Please contact me if you wish to see issues added or speak. Thanks to everyone, hope to see lots of you in Montana. Jerry Bromenshenk President, W.A.S. P.S. We're working on adding the exhibitor pages and the conference registration page later this week, but the posted page will get you started with the agenda, activities, hotel, etc. Lots of informational, education, and fun presentations (as you will see from the agenda). Plus tours of Western Bee equipment factory, Montana Naturals (pollen, propolis, royal jelly products), and the National Bison Range, with a barbecue on the shores of Flathead Lake :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:01:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Checkmite MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, if some U.S. beekeepers are no longer using Checkmite, then what are they using to control varroa mites. Here in Quebec half of the beekeepers immediately switched to Check Mite after heavy losses supposedly due to Apistan failure. The beekeepers who do not wish to use Check Mite due to the long term contamination are trying to perfect other techniques, such as formic acid. Not many U.S. beekeepers mention tracheal mites? Has there been a natural selection since the parasite appeared?? Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:28:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Bee Culture article Comments: To: jfischer@supercollider.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Tonight I was looking again through the March issue of Bee Culture and noticed an article by James Fischer (Jim Fischer on Bee-L) on page pg. 64. After reading the excellent article I pondered how hard it must have been for Jim to talk our editor Kim Flottum into publishing the article. Even myself which normally reads from cover to cover had missed the article the first time around. I believe all beekeepers should read the article and if a contamination issue comes up in your country speak out and not cover up or talk down to the public but as Jim suggests recall and destroy. Quote from article by Jim Fischer: "You get "good" PR coverage for doing a recall." You get grand jury indictments for NOT doing a recall" I am sure in the U.S. when the FDA confiscated 266,000 pounds of contaminated honey and destroyed same those importing contaminated honey got the picture! Coverups and talking down known health hazards are not the answer. We all as beekeepers need to be vocal and see that recalls are made and not excuses and coverups. Thanks to Jim for writting the article and to Kim Flottum for having the guts to publish the article. The article is about the way Australia handled the recent problem of finding nitrofuran in honey blended with Australian honey in Australia. Only ONE Australian packer was responsible. Many excellent beekeepers and packers are in Australia so we can not judge a country by the actions of a single packer & his influance in high places. I am proud to say when honey from China contaminated with chloramphenicol was found in the U.S. the leadership of both the AHPA & ABF stood firm in a no coverup policy. A few packers wanted a tolerance for chloramphenicol set (small PPB) so the honey would not be confiscated and destroyed. I am proud of both groups for taking the position of not on our watch. If a standard had been set all of the contaminated chloramphenicol honey could have been fed to the U.S. public ! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 06:59:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Baton Rouge Bee Lab open house In-Reply-To: <200405190400.i4J4015i004545@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My beekeepers' club wants to visit the Baton Rouge Bee Lab open house this year. Does anyone have the particulars or know who I can contact to get them? I'd appreciate any help I can get in this area. Mike Located 1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:58:25 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Bee Culture article In-Reply-To: <001301c43d59$b0666220$53bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> Bob said: > Tonight I was looking again through the March issue of > Bee Culture and noticed an article by James Fischer... For those who don't subscribe, it can be read in full here: http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/months/04mar/04mar3.htm Please note that the "Bottom Board" is a section of the magazine where humor tends to appear. Like all bottom boards, it is also a place where one finds detritus, trash, and pests. Each is free to draw their own conclusion as to the proper classification of the article at issue. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:04:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Baton Rouge Bee Lab open house In-Reply-To: <40AB4C09.2070105@frontiernet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The open house or field day is held in October on a Saturday the date has not been set yet contact *Dr. Thomas E. Rinderer *E-mail: trinderer@ars.usda.gov for more info. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:39:03 -0500 Reply-To: agl@arkwest.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alton Littleton Subject: drone behavior?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have two side by side hives that are fairly strong and have been on a pretty good nectar flow for a couple of weeks or more. The drones- yesterday afternoon when I did a walkby I noticed some drones in the short grass in front of the hives(had just mowed earlier). Closer check showed approx 2 dozen drones on the ground, apparently unable or not inclined to fly. There were also a few drones on the landings. Today same story, just not so many. To my knowledge neither hive has swarmed(yet). I know that drones get cut short in late fall, but now?? Possibly mites?? There were no worker bees on the ground except a couple that were tugging on drones. tia Gene in west central Arkansas :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:51:40 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard McGinnis Subject: Hive Value In-Reply-To: <001501c43d45$3c0ded80$a494fdcf@user> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm a new beekeeper, new to bees, etc, working with about 65 hives in 6 locations. One location has only 1 hive, it's quite a drive to service it and the owner wants to relocate it to one of the other sites for economic reasons. I've offered to buy the hive, leaving it where it's at (it's a nice drive for me, peaceful and very scenic). The current beekeeper and I visited the hive today. It's strong, surviving a brush fire that destroyed the other hive, 1 deep and 2 Westerns. Plenty of brood. Bees are active, foragers are returning loaded down with pollen - the bees are happy and gentle. How does one value a single hive? From the owner's perspective, the revenues from honey from this one hive probably don't (or wont) cover the cost of maintaining the single hive - it was more of a specialty honey thing. To move the hive is going to be an expense (and an effort due to it's location). Any suggestions? Thanks, Howard :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 01:03:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Formic Acid In-Reply-To: <001501c43d45$3c0ded80$a494fdcf@user> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Formic acid and V.d. treatment. How are people protecting the metallic parts of the hives - runners, lids etc. from the fumes of Formic to limit corrosion? If at all!! Interested and curious, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:00:59 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stephen Putnam Subject: Re: Formic Acid In-Reply-To: <40AC4A21.8050108@mts.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Peter Dillon wrote: > Formic acid and V.d. treatment. > > How are people protecting the metallic parts of the hives - runners, > lids etc. from the fumes of Formic to limit corrosion? > If at all!! I'n not, but probably should be - metal parts of roof, runners, metal ends are all suffering. -- ================================================================== Stephen Putnam http://www.st-ives-vet.co.uk/ St Ives Veterinary Surgery St Ives, Cornwall, UK sputnam@st-ives-vet.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:34:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Suzanne Geisler Subject: Uniting two nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have ordered a nuc from a friend. It will be ready to install shortly. = Another friend offered me a free swarm in a nuc. Rather than set up two = new hives I am considering uniting the two nucs. I am planning on = killing the swarm's queen, putting the frames in two individual brood = boxes and uniting them with the old newspaper trick.=20 Any advise? Is this a stupid idea? Suzanne Geisler Springboro, OH :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: info@miteaway.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "NOD Apiary Products Ltd." Subject: Re: Formic Acid In-Reply-To: <40AC4A21.8050108@mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How are people protecting the metallic parts of the > hives - runners, > lids etc. from the fumes of Formic to limit > corrosion? Formic acid vapours, in the recommended treatment concentrations within the hive will not damage the metallic hive parts, but liquid formic acid can do damage. Be careful not to lay a soaked formic acid pad down on a metal lid, or on the tailgate of your truck! Single time released treatments release 18-20 grams of acid per day. Multiple treatments (6 applications several days apart) contain less formic in each small absorbent pad and release a similar amount per day. Because the hive entrance is completely open, the acid vapours are constantly flowing from top to bottom and out the front entrance. When handling liquid formic acid I would not worry so much about your metal parts as your human parts! Be extremely careful and wear PVC or neoprene gloves, as well as a respirator and acid resistant apron. Our company makes a presoaked formic acid pad which allows the beekeeper to avoid the risks of handling liquid formic acid. Mite-AwayII Single Application Formic Acid Pads are in process of being registered with EPA for use in the US. Check out our updated website www.miteaway.com Scientific research has been performed for the last 3 years and data is available on this website. Liz Corbett, Manager NOD Apiary Products USA Inc. 866-483-2929 --- Peter Dillon wrote: > Formic acid and V.d. treatment. > > How are people protecting the metallic parts of the > hives - runners, > lids etc. from the fumes of Formic to limit > corrosion? > If at all!! > > Interested and curious, > Peter > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ > and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:07:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kim Flottum Subject: U.S. Queens into Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This just in from Canada...more later. Honeybee Importation Prohibition Regulations, 2004 SOR: 2004-136 I am pleased to inform you that the amendment to the honeybee importation regulations from the mainland USA was registered into law on May 19, 2004 and will be officially published in Canada Gazette Part II on June 2, 2004. Please visit : http://airs-sari.inspection.gc.ca/AIRS/airs-sari.asp for import conditions. Importers wishing to import honeybee queens from the continental USA should apply for permits to CFIA Area Import Specialists: Dr. Ken Orchard Veterinary Program Officer Animal Health and Production - Program Network - West Telephone: (403) 292-5825 Fax: (403) 292-6629 orchardk@inspection.gc.ca Kim Flottum Editor, BeeCulture 623 West Liberty Street Medina, Ohio 44256 V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 Fax - 330.725.5624 Kim@BeeCulture.com www.BeeCulture.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 21:23:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Martin Subject: Re: drone behavior?? In-Reply-To: <200405211102.i4LAtG5Q003836@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Gene, I have hives in an identical situation. They were purchased nucs hived on April 16 of this year. Both hives are side by side in my backyard. No other hives within 1/4 mile. When I dumped them into the hive there were drones present and flying around. I even watched the drones entering and exiting the hives. Quite a few present actually. The drones weren't excessive in number, just noticeable. Things changed around the time I switched the frames into a single deep. They had brood on both sides of 4 frames with emerging brood. This was in the middle of May. That is when the drones stopped flying. I even watched the workers pushing and pulling live drones out of the hive. This was in the middle of our locust bloom. Anyone know why these bees would decide to exclude drones? Thomas Martin Shippensburg, PA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::