From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:50:30 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.8 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3088E49069 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDdDKN012145 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0407B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 93279 Lines: 2048 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 22:29:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Sucrose octanoate ester MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter asks: Has anyone on the list used Sucroside? Any comments? I was part of the first testing by Dadant. Up to a 100% varroa control can be had if carefully applied as per label. In other words all bees need soaked three times at proper spacing. The product is safe for the beekeeper, comb and honey. Although time consuming I highly recommend the product for the hobby beekeeper! The product is exactly what the hobby beekeeper has asked for. We used the product in a commercial application to knock down varroa in hives my partner bought as he wanted to super the hives for the honey flow without waiting the two weeks ( waiting period before supers go on)if he had used checkmite (plus treatment period) or waiting the treatment period for apistan. Even one treatment can reduce varroa load and possibly put off varroa treatment until after the main honey flow as in his case. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 22:58:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: patties or dust for AFB control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd said: I have been criticized for saying it before...but I see the 'problem' as the migratory commercial beekeeper who is spreading resistant AFB far and wide Many would argue with the above. Second the migratory commercial beekeeper provides a very real service in the U.S.. Like it or not the hobby beekeeper does not have enough clout to stop the flow of hives for pollination. Actually neither did the bee inspectors, USDA people and others which tried to keep the pollination hives out each time a new beekeeping problem is found. Varroa, TM, Afb, Small hive beetle will not stop the flow of over 600,000 hives into California for Almond pollination or any other important pollination. Quarantines only stopped the flow for a short time and then reality took over. Not one quarantine has ever worked in the U.S.! Resistant AFB is coming to your area. Deal with it instead of pointing fingers. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 09:06:07 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Kim Flottum of Bee Culture Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim & all > 4) Single Malt Scotch? You're joking, right? I recommend one per day, no more - no less (or a glass of red wine or a bottle of beer), after a few days recovery. Apart from being pleasant and a welcome daily treat, one per day will not have any great effect on any other medication or condition and if it is totally regular every day any interactions that it may have will be compensated for in the calibration of the treatment. I must put up the disclaimer that I am not a medical man, but the 'well being' of beekeepers is close to my heart (having been 'on the slab' many times myself). Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:35:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Paul D. Law (aka Dennis)" Subject: Bees are not as busy as they are made out to be. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bees are not as busy as they are made out to be. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/06/27/wbee27.xml& sSheet=/news/2004/06/27/ixnewstop.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:36:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Paul D. Law (aka Dennis)" Subject: Genetic diversity key to honeybee air conditioning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Genetic diversity key to honeybee air conditioning http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1540&e=14& u=/afp/us_science_bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 08:03:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Kim Flottum of Bee Culture Magazine In-Reply-To: <003e01c464c2$be8162c0$5864fea9@orac> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Cushman wrote: > I recommend one per day, no more - no less (or a glass of red wine or a > bottle of beer), after a few days recovery. Lays Potato Chips have an ad- "bet you can't eat just one". I agree with Jim. Moderation in all things is a wonderful slogan, so why are there so many fat people (as I munch another chip)? Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 09:35:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gary Plazyk Subject: Very aggressive bees Comments: To: Beekeeping Yahoo group , ISBA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I had the most unpleasant experience in five years of beekeeping last weekend. I was checking my two hives (one Carniolan, one Italian) at a friend's farm, and the bees attacked me like I've never experienced before. They CLUNG to me, I was stung nearly a dozen times through my bee suit, and I couldn't get them away from me - I walked at least a quarter mile, brushing them off, but there must have been a couple dozen bees that kept going ZING! off my veil and hat, and wouldn't leave me alone. I finally had to drive five miles home, wearing bee suit and veil, with the windows open. It really shook me. These bees came as 3-pound packages this spring from a place in Ohio that I have not bought bees from before. A bit more background - yes it was a hot overcast afternoon, yes I did not use smoke (I only wanted to remove the queen/honey excluder from below three supers on each hive - BUT - I did the same thing a half hour earlier to my seven hives (all Italian) behind my garden with no more that a couple mildly annoyed bees that left me after I walked 20 feet away. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Thanks! -Gary P. in northern Illinois :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:12:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Aggressive Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary wrote: >"I was checking my two hives (one Carniolan, one Italian) at a friend's farm, and the bees attacked me like I've never experienced before." ************ If the Carniolian queen has been superceded, the new queen may get a mix of genes from drones in your area. Anecdotal evidence says that this mix often makes the new workers aggressive. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@fast.net (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 39.95 N 75.53 W :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:38:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Green Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, a package of bees from Georgia this spring were very aggressive, clung to me and were unrelenting, I used smoke but as soon as the covers were off they launched a nonstop attack, I had to leave the yard with suit on and continue to brush them off, they were black and UGLY! Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 gothoney@aol.com honeyetc.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:14:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <40ED5B9D.2348974F@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary Plazyk wrote: > Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Yes, from an Italian package from Georgia, USA, a few years after I started keeping bees and well before AHB. If I went into the back yard to garden, within a short time they would be buzzing me and get in my hair. The hives were 200+ feet away from the garden. If I inspected the colony, they were all over me. Sounded like I was in a rainstorm with them bouncing off my hat. I bought a new queen and invited an experienced beekeeper to help me re-queen. He prided himself on not wearing a suit or gloves when he worked bees, and started on this colony the same way. I got some good natured ribbing for appearing in full battle armor. But when the lid came off the hive, the bees followed. He quickly matched me in sartorial splendor. I have also had aggressive colonies after a skunk visit, but they cool down after a few days. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 19:41:34 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: very aggressive bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is not the first time that this has been brought up on this list. = Anyone who tries to open hives without the use of smoke is asking for = trouble. They only have themselves to blame for any resulting = ''incidents''. Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:09:49 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard McGinnis Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <40ED5B9D.2348974F@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:35 AM 7/8/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hi! > >I had the most unpleasant experience in five years of beekeeping last >weekend. I was checking my two hives (one Carniolan, one Italian) at a >friend's farm, and the bees attacked me like I've never experienced >before. They CLUNG to me, I was stung nearly a dozen Yes, experienced somewhat the same thing. I'm new to beekeeping and it almost made me think again about this job. We went to prep 5 hives for moving. The bee's are kept on the owner's brothers property and because of some quirks in the brother's personality, it has been difficult for the beekeeper I replaced to service them. The first hive went OK, honey super's pulled off and an empty Western put on. New bottom board, tie down installed. Second hive was a little more aggressive, perhaps alarmed by the first hive. I managed to get whacked about 10 times and it seemed that no amount of smoking myself could mask me. Same deal, pull the honey supers off, new bottom board, tie down. The third hive, located about 20 feet from the other two, was a nightmare. When I started to pull the honey super's off, they weren't happy about it and let me know. When I pulled the top brood box, they went nuts. Instead of guzzling nectar and honey, like they should, I became their target and got whacked about 30 to 40 more times in about 5 minutes. By the time I started on the this hive, I was sweating, so the suit clung to the skin and the stings came right through (I'm in a tropical climate, so it's short's and T-shirt's under the suit). Setting the deep down, I did the though the bushes, zigging and zagging, but they wouldn't leave. After they calmed down, even after removing the stingers and smoking myself, I couldn't get within 30 feet of the hive. Every time I got with in range, they'd come after me en masse. The other beekeeper got whacked only 3 times. But she's more experienced, doesn't carry the extra weight I do and I was doing the work. We stopped after buttoning up the third hive. I'd become light headed, possibly from so much venom in so little time, perhaps a little from heat exhaustion and adrenalin rush. We finished up a few days later. Double socks, jeans, two long sleeve shirts and wouldn't you know it - the two remaining hives weren't aggressive. The actual move had a little excitement when one of the doors opened (the hives had to be carried up some stairs, over and down a hill) but the extra clothing helped. We moved 4 of the hives, left the pissy one behind for now. Of the 4 moved, 3 are much gentler, however the 4th one still is pissy and probably a candidate to be requeened. I'll be keeping my eye on that hive. Howard :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:51:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, with my first hive. They didn't follow in the way you describe but they would crawl all over me, and if there were any gaps in my clothes they'd make a bee-line for them. They'd get under my clothes and sting. Meanwhile other bees would be repeatedly attempting to batter their way in through my veil. Most unpleasant. The remedy is to requeen; it sounds as though you have some better hives you could use to raise a queen from, or you could buy one from a more reliable source! Regards, Robert Brenchley :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:48:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary asks: Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Sure! Why we always warn new beekeepers not to drop your guard. Your big problem *in my opinion* was not using smoke. you had no way to mask the odor of the first sting. With each sting the other guard bees became aware of an intruder/problem. I doubt your bees are the problem but keep a close eye on the bees and requeen if indeed very aggressive. I was checking hives yesterday and in areas in which the honey flow was not going on and all bees were in the hive smoke was needed. I took over twelve stings in one location I was popping lids without smoke. My mistake for being lazy and not firing up the smoker. When the honey flow is on I rarely need to fire up a smoker. The Missouri highway department guys were working on my highway entrance today and I had to chuckle when I showed my arm with all the yesterday bee sting marks when asked if I ever get stung. Beekeeping was not something they would be interested in they said. They said they had heard the bees would not sting their beekeeper. Bob "the lowly bee sting will always limit the membership in the craft of beekeeping" Richard Taylor from the book "The Joys of Beekeeping" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 14:19:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Lesli St. Clair" Organization: Ithaca College Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <40ED5B9D.2348974F@ix.netcom.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Gary Plazyk wrote: > Hi! > > I had the most unpleasant experience in five years of beekeeping last weekend. ... I haven't had the non-pleasure--but I am curious about the "place in Ohio," since I bought two nucs from a place in Ohio in June. If you'd rather write to me personally, please do. Happy to say that my girls (from Ohio) are sweet and docile. They're Italians, though one coloby has some carniolans mixed into it, judging by the color. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Lesli St. Clair Systems Administrator, Ithaca College lstclair@ithaca.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:49:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howard said: Yes, experienced somewhat the same thing. I'm new to beekeeping and it almost made me think again about this job. Howard I have been around bees most my life and at times involved in large scale beekeeping so will try to help. >Second hive was a little more aggressive, perhaps alarmed by the first hive. You could be correct as one upset hive can upset many. When you move on to the next and bees from the first are bouncing off your veil the new hives guard bees react. > I managed to get whacked about 10 times and it seemed that no amount of smoking myself could mask me. Walk away a short distance and let the situation calm down (if possible) and try and figure out what is upseting the hive such as lack of smoke, a large amount of venom odor ,etc. > >The third hive, located about 20 feet from the other two, was a nightmare. When the situation keeps escallating you need to consider alternatives instead of pressing on. Taking a break is often an option for the hobby beekeeper. >When I pulled the top brood box, they went nuts. Instead of guzzling nectar and honey, like they should, I became their target and got whacked about 30 to 40 more times in about 5 minutes. By now we are talking a huge amount of alarm odor in the area of YOU. >I did the though the bushes, zigging and zagging, but they wouldn't leave. If you do not think I am on track why wasn't your helper taking stings? >After they calmed down, even after removing the stingers and smoking myself, I couldn't get within 30 feet of the hive. Every time I got with in range, they'd come after me en masse. If you do not wash your bee suit your next visit will be similar! >The other beekeeper got whacked only 3 times. But she's more experienced, doesn't carry the extra weight I do and I was doing the work. When was the last time you washed your bee suit? I have had hired help beekeepers show up to help me and when we get to a bee yard they keep getting stung while I receive not a sting. I keep an extra suit around for help which can never think of washing the bee suit. >We stopped after buttoning up the third hive. I'd become light headed, possibly from so much venom in so little time, perhaps a little from heat exhaustion and adrenalin rush. The above situation has killed more than one beekeeper. Beekeeping is supposed to be fun for the hobby beekeeper. I only wish to help the situation from repeating itself Howard as we need every beekeeper we can get. Aggressive bees are around but all bees can be aggressive when they want to be. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 15:24:20 -0700 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew Shepherd (Xerces Society)" Subject: Bee keeping ban being discussed in Crestline, OH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable People may already be aware of this proposed bee ban, but in case you are= not, here are a couple of news stories published today. Matthew ************************************** From: North Central Ohio http://www.northcentralohio.com/newsboard/player/player2.asp?story=3D16307 The city of Crestline is proposing an ordinance that would prohibit= beekeeping within the city limits. This decision has created a firestorm= of tension between the town's only beekeeper and the city. David Duncan= has been a beekeeper for more than 20 years. He has bee hives near his= home and throughout north central Ohio. A resident who lives near Duncan= and is allergic to bees, contacted city officials to request that= beekeeping be outlawed. Last week, city council gave the proposal a first= reading. Duncan feels the proposed law is aimed at him but Crestline City= Safety Director Eugene Toy says this is not true and hopes a comprise can= be met between both parties. The proposed legislation must go through two= more readings before it can become a law. On July 12th, council will hold= the second reading. If it passes, anyone harboring bees will face a= misdemeanor charge and fines. If the ordinance passes, Duncan says he will= remove his hives from the city. **************************************** From: WBNS-10TV Bees have city a-buzz http://www.10tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3D2015152 They are part of the cycle of life. Without them there would be no flowers= or honey, but one Ohio town wants bees banned from the city limits. Welcome to Crestline, a quaint little town in Crawford County. It's a place= where everyone knows everybody and everybody knows about the towns= rowdiest residents. Dave Duncan calls himself a Bee-ologist, and he keeps his bees just on the= edge of town. "I sell honey and bee products and soap made from bees wax," Duncan says.= Until last month Duncan also kept bees at his home near downtown= Crestline, but a new neighbor didn't like it too much because she is= allergic to bees and was concerned. After one complaint in 10 years, town leaders decided to ban bees. "It is not about banning a bee from doing something but keep someone from= keeping a collection of bees," says Safety Director Eugene Toy. Duncan doesn't see how the city can ban bees based on allergies. "There are= allergies everywhere people are allergic to mosquitoes, pollen, to cats.= All types of things," Duncan says. "Nobody in town want to discourage anyone from doing business but certainly= there are place that more appropriate," says Toy. Try telling a bee that. Duncan says, "They are free to go where they= please." Crestline will not be the first city to pass a bee ban. Akron, Ross Ford,= Norwood and Willoughby have bee keeping bans. The Crestline ordinance still has two more public readings before a final= decision is made. **************************************** _____________________________________________ Matthew Shepherd Director, Pollinator Conservation Program The Xerces Society 4828 SE Hawthorne Boulevard, Portland, OR 97215, USA Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org Web: www.xerces.org _____________________________________________ A nonprofit dedicated to protecting the diversity of life through the conservation of invertebrates. _____________________________________________ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 19:21:04 -0400 Reply-To: wwfarm@wctel.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carolyn Ehle Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <40ED5B9D.2348974F@ix.netcom.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I recently used some homeopathic "rescue" remedy on a sting in my nose to see if it would help my watering eyes (usually I use crushed honeysuckle flowers). My previously calm hive went ballistic, similar to your description. The next day walking through my home beeyard I was attacked on the same spot repeatedly, until I took a long hot shower, then they were fine. Did you have any different smells on you between beeyards? Carolyn in SC Gary Plazyk wrote: >Hi! > >I had the most unpleasant experience in five years of beekeeping last weekend.... > >Has anyone else experienced anything like this? > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 19:26:24 -0400 Reply-To: wwfarm@wctel.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carolyn Ehle Subject: Re: very aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <000d01c4650a$6f751940$0f8a9ac2@haris8cjgnhodj> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hate to disagree with such an expert, but I often work my bees in shorts and a t-shirt with no smoke. The secret is genetics and moving very slowly (I think). I also pipe some sugar/pollen substitute/ vegetable oil mix onto the top bars before I start digging in. All those little faces chowing down (and fooling those tracheal mites).! I've never had more than 50 hives so I can make time to go slow. Wouldn't work for big commercial folks. Sure is cooler tho, and I just love watching the queen lay eggs on a frame I'm holding! Carolyn in SC Roger White wrote: >This is not the first time that this has been brought up on this list. Anyone who tries to open hives without the use of smoke is asking for trouble. They only have themselves to blame for any resulting ''incidents''. > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:33:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Aggressive Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another possibility is, are the bees being bothered? I'm suggesting skunks in the middle of the night. Look around the front of the hive. Has the ground been disturbed? Another possibility is a sudden reduction in honey flow. Kent Stienburg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:35:49 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Curtis Crowell Subject: Aggressive Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Two years ago I had two hives that became very aggressive, and people were getting stung when they were not even close to the hive. When I worked the hives, they would start battering my veil as others have described. One hive was a solitary hive, the other was one of four. The one of four stood out because of the way the bees flushed out of the hive and attacked when a gloved hand was inserted gently inside the entrance. Both hives were newly queened that Spring (among several others), both had honey on them, and neither were queenless. I ended up moving both hives to a remote area, pulling the brood boxes off and setting them 20 feet away, them after a few days going in again and requeening. I had to move the brood boxes becuase this was mid summer and there just too many bees for me to find the queen. Once the foragers and field bees were not in the brood boxes, but back in the original colony, I was able to find the queens. In the one case were the aggressive hive was one of four, field hands were being stung on the farm a hundred yards from the hive. Once I moved that one hive, the stinging stopped. I attributed the cause to nasty queens. C. Crowell - NJ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 05:29:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees Comments: To: wwfarm@WCTEL.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carolyn asks Howard: Did you have any different smells on you between beeyards? Smells can certainly get a response from bees. Good & bad. I have never heard or read about bees reaction to sounds but my partner says every time the big roll up door goes up here come the bees from the home yard searching for a free meal when the honey flow is not on. Do bees react to sound when the reward is perhaps honey from a stored honey super OR is the answer perhaps one I suggest that the odor from the supers on the wind brings the bees and not the sound? Comments? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 14:07:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: recent deaths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Patti Elzen of the Westlaco Bee Lab passed away on June 5, 2004. Patti has written many articles and was working on small hive beetle and varroa recently. Dennis Kiefat (Texas large commercial migratory beekeeper) passed away on June 10th , 2004. Dennis was forty eight years old. Dennis was famous for helping other beekeepers doing California almond pollination including myself and friends. Both will be missed! Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 18:04:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Aggressive Bees We had a discussion a sometime back about what I and a few others on the list had heard called Black Spanish bees, which fortunately don't seem so common around the Central Coast anymore. But they were blacker and just as mean as those I kept in South Africa. The swarms I get lately are usually mild, although you get the mean hive occasionally. Here is a swarm that came to some stored equipment at my house a few days ago. http://www.pbase.com/image/30883854 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 08:23:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Martin Subject: drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello A few weeks back I was asking why my hive was excluding drones. I have a possible answer. The hive was a package purchased this April and installed on drawn comb. I continuously fed the hive sugar syrup and they were consuming it. However I neglected to feed the hive any type of pollen substitute or extender. This combined with the condition of a package after four weeks of being installed could have caused a pollen shortage in the hive. Considering the new workers would have just been emerging. I remember reading, but can't locate where, how a colonies reaction to drones is related to pollen availability. Correct me if I remembered wrong. This scenario could cause a colony to exclude drones. Thomas Martin Shippensburg, Pa :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:16:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Very aggressive bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Odor, not sound George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:56:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Banning beekeeping in Crestline In-Reply-To: <200407090401.i69401SD001766@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthew wrote: "The city of Crestline is proposing an ordinance that would prohibit beekeeping within the city limits." Isn't there something about a grandfather clause, in that you cannot pass a law against something that has already been established, i.e. property use, farming, etc.? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 23:01:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cee Dempsey Subject: Re: Honey bound question. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040707142140.0321d1a8@pop3.wcoil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >>2. Could this present a problem with extracted honey? > >It certainly could. I don't know if there are any rules of thumb on this >issue. Typically I only need to feed though the first hive body and then >there is enough of a flow on for the 2nd body. By the time the supers are >added there is little (if any) sugar water left in the comb. But it >appears the same as honey at this point so it's difficult to determine how >much is really left. Next time put food coloring in the sugar syrup. You will see it if they move it up. Dan >:: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 23:47:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: Bee keeping ban being discussed in Crestline, OH Comments: To: mdshepherd@xerces.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having heard of the plight of honeybees in your hometown I'd like to add my 2 cents to the contributions made to your city council. The same -exact- argument was recently brought before Denver's largest suburb, Aurora. The council was charged with the opportunity to outlaw honeybees as "pests" just as pitbulls and rattlesnakes because a resident whom cried (literally) about her bee-sting allergy. Let's get right to the argument. Should an ENTIRE city be held ransom against gardening, small wildlife and landscaping efforts lost of those that would otherwise beautify their city? All because of 1 in 100,000 whom might have an allergy, and whom might get stung by a honeybee? Let me tell you exactly how selfish that person is. Look up "bee-sting desensitization". That same 1 in 100,000 with the allergy can pay to have THEIR reaction tamed so they're no longer at risk. So the whole town should stop gardening? Stop planting apples? Plums? Pumpkins? On the off chance that someone with an allergy should trip over a honeybee hive and knock it to the ground - which is about what you'd have to do with most honeybees as we all know they're defensive beasts & rarely on the level of their aggressive counterparts: hornets, wasps, yellow-jackets & others. Once honeybees are removed the remaining wild and 'aggressive' stinging insects won't know there's a law that bans their activities. What you WILL accomplish with a law banning beekeepers/honeybees is a complete upset of a balanced ecosystem. People in cities -introduce- gardens, flowers and fruit trees, - because they add beauty and food. Food for themselves, seed and food for small wildlife. Simply for the natural beauty of an plum tree in bloom during spring. Honeybees are a natural part of that system and are irreplaceable in numbers to set the fruit and seed both for humans, birds, squirrels, etc. Honeybees are a necessary part of city landscape and wildlife maintenance. In moderation, cities ARE the best place for honeybees - or tell the opposite to all the gardeners, landscapers whom "live" for their weekends in their gardens. & then run off to tell the other hundreds whom don't garden but DO appreciate the efforts of those that share home-grown fruit to neighbors and help beautify their city. Pass the honeybee-ban ordinance and put the needs of -one- person ahead of an entire city because that person won't pay to solve their own allergy, and tell the gardeners their efforts won't be rewarded. And then let's discuss the fact that gardeners and people whom benefit from gardening are voters too.. In the past 5-8 years, cities all over have been displacing old bee-ban statutes keeping in line with the times. What's changed? Prior to 1993-95 in most parts of the U.S. you could count on wild honeybees pollinating most gardens and fruit trees. With the absolute destruction of wild honeybees with Varroa (mite whom feed off the 'baby' bees and eventually kill the hive) there are NO feral hives of any significance to do the huge job of pollinating needed in every city. Count yourself lucky if you reside within a 2 or 3-mile radius of a local beekeeper. Once informed to the plight of our honeybees and the needs of our landscape and gardens, cities are instead advancing the effort of beekeeping. Some are fostering the skill (Golden, Colorado) and acknowledge that beekeepers provide an invaluable service to the surrounding landscape and vegetation. Council members likely won't find the truth concerning honeybees to vote an educated decision if left to finding information on their own . Like "monsters", the "dark" and scary movies there are many people whom harbor ill-will, place obstacles and pass laws based on "fears" vs. simple facts. As beekeepers it's our job to provide assistance and information to those whom would pass laws without the necessary information in front of them. With varroa, the alternative is to 'live' in a city with fewer birds, less squirrels, and certainly unhappy gardeners. Ask me sometime about the story of the $100 cucumber... (or figure it out on your own... lack of pollination). To get back to my introduction, (~2002) the city of Aurora entertained a lengthy process from a number of sources for information and testimony -- & resulted in a complete about-face on the issue once they found out about 'desensitization' therapy for the complaining individual. Aurora instead allowed honey-bees specifically by ordinance where previously they weren't mentioned. you can find several references to the Aurora review of honeybees from here on Bee-L. I would encourage those council members to seek out the thoughts, subjects and objections brought before OTHER city councils as it's sure to provide them with a valuable third party avenue for opinion and unbiased information. I know for certain both the city of Aurora and Golden have recently reviewed (and passed) beekeeping ordinances here in Colorado. My home town of Castle Rock visited the issue and passed the initiative but a city planner sabotaged our efforts by writing the law to include a 'fee' for "site evaluation" of sorts, which later turned out to be $1200 and of which at least one of the council members informed the local rag they were equally put off by the fee. Council members can't see everything coming... including those that work directly under them (going back to those that work off 'fear' will sometimes sabotage the efforts of those that would choose to work from facts & truth). Matthew Westall "E-Bees" // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Shepherd (Xerces Society)" People may already be aware of this proposed bee ban, but in case you are not, here are a couple of news stories published today. Matthew ************************************** From: North Central Ohio The city of Crestline is proposing an ordinance that would prohibit beekeeping within the city limits. This decision has created a firestorm of tension between the town's only beekeeper and the city. David Duncan has been a beekeeper for more than 20 years. He has bee hives near his home and throughout north central Ohio. A resident who lives near Duncan and is allergic to bees, :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:10:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bee keeping ban being discussed in Crestline, OH In-Reply-To: <004201c46641$726d0030$6300a8c0@ecapital83wvji> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are quite a few posts on zoning in the archives. Most of the time, the beekeeper wins, but you have to do your homework. Case law is on the beekeepers side but emotion is not. There are model zoning ordinances for beekeeping in an urban area. When presented with an ordinance that solves everyones problem, boards and councils are very happy to adopt them. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 09:02:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: Banning beekeeping in Crestline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: "Mike" > Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Banning beekeeping in Crestline > Isn't there something about a grandfather clause, in that you cannot pass a law against something > that has already been established, i.e. property use, farming, etc.? Grandfather clauses as I understand them work for a particular "use" but not for "nuisances". Once 'ordained' a nuisance by ordinance (vs. law, which are only quasi-judicial so I'll refrain from using the word 'law') -- once passed, all animals banned must be removed from the city limits or face the consequences provided by the ordinance. The alternative is to fight them in court. Depending on the actual 'law' of your state you may have specific legal rights to farm your land if it was annexed by the city. For example, Colorado has a "right to farm" law passed by the state legislature back in the 70's (74?) which specifically permits beekeeping to areas annexed by the cities. If there's a dispute on point of law and the city loses, the city is responsible to repay all legal costs as directed by the statute. The wording in our state statute is there to prevent cities from bullying farmers out of the town when the footprint of their area of annexed 'control' grows to consume the land (and farms) around them. So check your statutes to see if you can find a higher precedent for law concerning honeybees and farming if your property was annexed by your city. In the worst case scenario a ban on honeybees passes council, it may mean a court battle but the actual "law" may easily be on your side to gain satisfaction and continue your farming. One of our council-members here was overheard that roughly 1/3 of the ordinances they pass are within the law. The remainder would likely be countermanded if citizens took them to court. (I'm not a lawyer. This is information I've learned from other beekeepers and professionals over the years.) Matthew Westall - E-Bees // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:04:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Meister Subject: Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all: My wife and I are planning to relocate from San Diego County, California = to Texas later this year or early next year, and I would like to take my = five colonies with me. I plan to staple them and strap them down in an open trailer, screening = the entrances of course. I thought I would cover them with netting or = burlap as an extra precaution. Can anyone tell me if there are legal restrictions to such bee = relocations? Do I need permissions, inspections? I would also appreciate any advice that would help ensure the well being = of the bees. Should I consider division board feeders with water or = dilute sugar syrup? There's a distinct possibility that it will be HOT, = depending on when we travel. Travel time should be no more than 3 days. Thanks Bill Meister :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:08:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Bee keeping ban being discussed in Crestline, OH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Despite the known /believed? reduction in feral colonies post varooa, an interesting experiment would be for the sole beekeeper in the city to note down the number of bees to visit various patches of flowers within the city, perhaps near to the complainant's home. Then to shut in all his bee for a day and recheck the number of foragers at work. It might show that banning his beekeeping would NOT totally eliminate risk to those who are allergic - so undermining the core case for the ban. It would at least enable some estimate of the number of foragers likely to enter the complainant's property on any day - (I will risk betting it would be a very small number if there are so few colonies in the entire area). Councillors might be persauded the complainant would be better off solving their own personal problem by reducing attractive nectar sources close to home than asking for a city-wide reduction in pollination of home-produced fruit and veg. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:00:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Banning beekeeping in Crestline In-Reply-To: <000801c4668e$e2e23040$6300a8c0@ecapital83wvji> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:02 AM 7/10/2004, you wrote: >Grandfather clauses as I understand them work for a particular "use" but not >for "nuisances". Fortunately in many (most?) states there are 'right to farm laws' that state that such agricultural use cannot be deemed a nuisance. The extent and the exact language varies state by state. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:15:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 9 Jul 2004 to 10 Jul 2004 (#2004-187) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/10/2004 11:01:36 PM Central Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > Can anyone tell me if there are legal restrictions to such bee = > relocations? Do I need permissions, inspections? > > I moved my hives from Georgia to Tennessee a few years back. I contacted the State apiary office and got permission to do so, AFTER it was inspected. I would suggest contacting the State apiary office in Texas and ask what the policy is. Some states don't allow it, for example Alabama forbids bringing bees into the state on comb and there are fines and destruction of colonies as the consequence. Tim Morris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:52:09 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Fibonacci series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all The Fibonacci article is on... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/fibonacci.html The 'biology and 'genetics' links at top left of that page are not operational yet. But the original version of the biology page is available at... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/biology.html Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:13:26 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Oh Death, Where Is Thy Sting? (Crestline, OH) In hopes of assisting Mr. Dunkin with his municipal problem, let me reveal part of an article that I am not yet done writing on "suburban beekeeping". Can someone please forward or snail-mail this to him? The section that I call "Oh Death, Where Is Thy Sting?" may be of interest. This basic question has remained unanswered since the earliest Bibles were being copied by monks (I Corinthians 15:55). The reason that the question remains unanswered is that it is hard to find the sting in death, as there are very few deaths from stings. In 2000 (the most recent year for which data has been reported to the World Health Organization) 54 people died in the USA due to encounters" with ANY type of stinging insect (wasps, bees, hornets, yellowjackets...). This number is sure to include some number of deaths due to insects other than bees, and can also be assumed to include a certain number of deaths from "Africanized" Bees, something that is expected to never become an issue in Ohio by those who do AHB research. In Canada, 2 people died in 2000. Canada has no "Africanized" Bees, but has about the same percentage of their population keeping bees in suburban and urban areas as in the USA. Canada is thereby a better model than the USA for how "risky" bees are if one wants to eliminate the "Africanized" bee factor, which would be reasonable for places like Ohio. When you look at mortality versus population, the odds of dying from the sting of any/all insects in any one year are: USA - 1 in 5,555,556 Canada - 1 in 16,666,667 In contrast, there are many many other things that are much more dangerous and kill many more people every year. Things that are much more within the legitimate regulatory grasp of a municipality than bees, and things that can be controlled by a municipality. Lots of things kill more many people. Things like WALKING DOWN THE STREET! In the USA: What Killed Deaths Odds of People in 2000 1 in ----------------- ------- --------- Pedestrian Hit By: Passenger Vehicle 3101 93,633 Truck/Bus 295 990,099 Train 449 649,351 Stairways 1307 222,222 Slip/Trip On Level 565 515,464 Fall Involving Bed 450 649,351 How many times more risk of death What than from stings in USA? ----------------- ------------------------ Pedestrian Hit By: Passenger Vehicle 59.3 Truck/Bus 5.6 Train 8.6 Stairways 25.0 Slip/Trip On Level 10.8 Fall Involving Bed 8.6 In Canada: Times More Died In Odds Risky Than 2000 1 in Stings? ------- --------- --------- Pedestrian Hit By: Passenger Vehicle 209 154,321 108.0 Truck/Bus 28 1,162,791 14.3 Train 32 1,010,101 16.5 Stairways 236 136,612 122.0 Slip/Trip On Level 85 380,228 43.8 Fall Involving Bed 62 520,833 32.0 So, if the town fathers want to ban something to protect those who are unable to protect themselves, they need to start with a ban on walking down the street, all passenger vehicles, all stairways, and all walking on level surfaces. Note that the bus is much safer, so everyone will have to take the bus everywhere, even if the journey would only be a few steps. Busses can't go up stairways very well, so they will also have to mandate elevators for all multi-story buildings. When they are done with that, the next logical item to ban would be either beds or trains. (No idea what to do about beds ON trains, but one might jump to the conclusion that they would be much more risky than either one alone.) Since all the items listed above are common in nearly every town, they are a much more serious risk to the ENTIRE POPULATION rather than a risk to one person who was dealt a bad genetic hand, yet has made no effort to obtain a readily- available cure for the affliction. Moreover, municipalities can impose bans on things like walking and passenger vehicles and expect to be able to enforce them. In contrast, a "ban" on beehives within the municipal limits is easy to prove as "useless, ineffective, and providing no tangible amount of additional protection", even to the one person who has an illness that they refuse to treat. Stinging insects fly where they wish. Just try to stop them. Controls for bees don't work. Bees tend to be oblivious to political boundaries. Yellowjackets and wasps would be nearly impossible to eradicate, making any "ban" on bees even more useless. As another sanity check and point of reference, in 2000, 65 people died in the USA of food poisoning ("gastroenteritis of presumed infectious origin") in Canada, 13 people died in 2000. Is this the "quiche of death"?. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 12:58:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Fw: [BEE-L] Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill asked- > Can anyone tell me if there are legal restrictions to such bee relocations? > Do I need permissions, inspections? > Bill, > I just got back from HAS and the Texas Apiarist was there. He and several > other state officials discussed regulatory similarities and differences > between states. You will need to get a permit to move your bees into Texas. His name is Paul Jackson. Sorry, I looked but do not have an email address. > > Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:06:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Oh Death, Where Is Thy Sting? (Crestline, OH) In-Reply-To: <037901c46751$3bcb2f00$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is a legitimate argument but the reaction of the Board will be - fine, so we can remove one more hazard, not matter how slight. A better approach is with the model ordinances which will appeal to the Board since "others do it so we will be just like everyone else"... which appeals bureaucrats. It becomes a managed risk. Human nature, being what it is, does not always listen to reason, especially in our current zero risk society. We drive cars but fear plane crashes, yet our chances of being killed in a car is much greater than if we flew every day. We will eat organic veggies which have been shown to have a fairly high chance of being contaminated with night soil and not trust supermarket veggies because of the remote chance that pesticides are present. Follow the threads on this list on "natural" vrs "chemical" beekeeping. Gets irrational quickly. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:54:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Fibonacci series Thanks Dave and all. I've always envied people who can understand anything beyond the the basic trig necessary to put in vineyards. All those numbers!!! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:04:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'I remember reading, but can't locate where, how a colonies reaction to drones is related to pollen availability. A good reference always is Mark Winston, Biology of the Honey Bee. Chapter 12 'Drones Queens and Mating' makes pretty clear that whether drones cells are built, and drones are raised or kept depends on resource availability and the extent of possible need for drones for mating - either a home produced queen or one from another hive (which would still spread the genes). It's a ruthless world in there - no need for them to perform and out they go, fumbly bumbly though they may be. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:52:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: JOEL N SWINK Subject: drones & queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am thinking about beginning to raise my own queens for requeening = either this fall or in the spring. It is very difficult to get queens = here exactly when you need them. There is always a waiting period and = then there is a rationing system. =20 Anyway, it was with great interest to read about the fibinacci style = genealogy. This demonstrates the precise rate at which bees reduce the = exchange of genetic material in comparison with, say, mammals. =20 Whereas a worker has two parents she is discounted because she has no = progeny. The drone has only one parent as a result of being produced by = parthegenesis. He is haploid. He therefore can only pass on DNA = exactly as he received it from his mother. Therefore he is merely an = extension of the queen herself for the purpose of diseminating the = colonie's genes in the subsequent generation. This means that the = chance of creating genetic diversity is further reduced on a per = generation basis in comparison with ordinary sexual reproduction. =20 I have been raising ten colonies of bees in an area where there are no = other beekeepers. So if I release a virgin queen there is a good chance = she will be mated with her brother. Isn't it true that if this were to = continue over the years it would lead to inbreeding problems? The way I = see it, if the drone is not otherwise related to his mother and father, = he has a 1 in 4 chance of combining the identical chromosomes with that = of his sister/mate. It gave me a headache trying to figure out the odds = if the virgin queen's father was a brother of the virgin's mate. =20 Can anybody enlighten me on the viablility of this endevor? Joel :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:34:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carole Hawirko Subject: Bees & Swimming Pool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have a problem with (our) bees going about 200 feet across a wooded area & road to a neighbour's swimming pool. The neighbour puts salt in his pool, not chlorine and some of the salt crystallizes around the rim of the pool. The bees sit on the cover and go down the crack after this salt, not the water. Needless to say the neighbours are not impressed and we are concerned. Fresh water is always available for our bees and they do use it. Any suggestions and/or explanations would be appreciated. Carole Ontario, Canada :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:33:03 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Bees & Swimming Pool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The bees sit on the cover and go down the crack after this salt, not the > water. Needless to say the neighbours are not impressed and we are > concerned. Fresh water is always available for our bees and they do use it. Try adding a source of salty water at your place. You could even try to get some salt off your neighbour and mix at the same rate (s)he does. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 15:50:11 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard McGinnis Subject: Re: Bees & Swimming Pool In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Give them their own salt supply? think I read that some people put salt under the top lid on the inner cover.... Howard At 06:34 PM 7/11/2004 -0400, you wrote: >We have a problem with (our) bees going about 200 feet across a wooded area >& road to a neighbour's swimming pool. The neighbour puts salt in his pool, >not chlorine and some of the salt crystallizes around the rim of the pool. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:39:19 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: Bee keeping ban in Crestline, OH Comments: cc: BeeOlogy2@aol.com In-Reply-To: <200407081524200323.01BBB5C7@spineless.xerces.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have contacted Dave Dustin and his business partner Ellen (I am sorry Ellen, but I didn't write down your last name when Dave gave it to me and now I've forgotten it) I have forwarded the E mails from Bee-L and some other information. Ellen responded as below: ::To: tomandcara@comcast.net ::Subject: Re: bee law ::From: BeeOlogy2@aol.com ::Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:52:19 EDT :: ::I've been reading and printing everything. soaking it up like a sponge. :: ::I am thrilled with all of this info. Somehow, please get word to everyone who ::emailed information in the hopes of getting it to us, to let them know how ::much we appreciate it. :: ::I'll get back to you after the meeting tomorrow (Monday) night and let you ::know how it went. :: ::Thanks so Much, ::Ellen and Dave They will be meeting tomorrow (Monday 7/12/2004) to see if the city council will drop the banning ordinance. If not there will be a third reading in the future so there will still be time to turn this thing around. I will post her response after the meeting tomorrow. Tom Patterson, Aurora, CO :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:13:17 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: drones & queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joel & all Talking of drones, Joel said... > He therefore can only pass on DNA exactly as he received it from his mother. > Therefore he is merely an extension of the queen herself for the purpose of > diseminating the colonie's genes in the subsequent generation. If we were dealing with simple sexual reproduction based on one queen and one drone, this would be true, but (and it is very big 'but') we are dealing with a colony that has one female line and something in the region of ten to twenty male lines within it's patriline sets of subsisters. > I have been raising ten colonies of bees in an area where there are no other > beekeepers. So if I release a virgin queen there is a good chance she will > be mated with her brother Whether this is actually damaging or not, depends on the amount of drone drift and the timing (frequency) of opportunities for mating of elements outside the closed community. There is another factor in this that is hardly ever discussed or researched and that is the ability of (bees in general) and queens in particular to discern or recognise the genetic make up of other bees. This can go as far as queens making decisions about the drones that are allowed to mate (or not) and the number of drones that a queen actually mates with. Both of these features can go a long way towards alleviating a degree of inbreeding that might be damaging. > The way I see it, if the drone is not otherwise related to his mother and father, > he has a 1 in 4 chance of combining the identical chromosomes with that of > his sister/mate. You are thinking about two sets of chromosomes here and you have ignored the numbers of alleles and the number of locii at which these can act, drones have no father... The nearest male ancestor is his grandfather so they only have one set of chromosomes. Queens have two sets and so each set has an allele at each locus so that there is a choice of two at any place in any single queen and dozens within a population (even a closed one) that coupled with the number of possible locii (hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions) gives considerable diversity within the population. Faced with ten colonies in a remote area, using US genetic stock, I would be tempted to bring in one queen per year from a 'favoured' source and use her to produce virgins that would be mated to the drones of the existing pool, and to do this early enough so that there were no drones available from the freshly imported queen. By doing this you can totally avoid direct brother/sister matings, but you do need a reliable source that has a line or 'pedigree' behind it and you cannot chop and change your source otherwise you will get F1 hybrids that may be nasty. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 06:53:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Allen Subject: Re: Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recommend you sell your california bees and buy new ones in Texas. I understand that when you cross a county line in Texas, a moving permit is required. Bees coming from an africanized area to a non africanized area require inspection. I believe the focus of these regulations are geared for persons with 20 hives + so I suggest you contact the Texas State apiary inspector. Other states like Arizona may have regulations about bee hives passing thru them. When moving bees in hot weather it is a good idea to top screen the hive and water them down occationally to prevent overheating. I recommend not feeding bees in transit as feeders will spill. Open trailers have stiff suspension. The bounceing on long trips is hard on the bees. Good Luck! Welcome to Texas. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 07:09:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Nixon Ronald W NNVA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yesterday I noticed that the Water Oak tree in my yard was covered with bees. They were visiting the small acorns. I have kept bees at my house for a number of years and have never seen this before. Any thoughts? Ron Nixon Chesapeake, VA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:24:28 -0400 Reply-To: wwfarm@wctel.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carolyn Ehle Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <2E399E1EA385D341989B5462BA9A198F760EFA@nnvaexch.snews.spear.navy.mil> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I've seen it 2 different years in 2 species of white oaks. Thought I had a swarm at dawn the other morning but it was bees on the post oak. They visit the baby acorns, but also the axils of some of the leaves. I hunted both trees for aphids, thinking honeydew but didn't see any. Could there be little nectaries to attract ants or something? Any botanists out there to help? Corolyn in western Piedmont of SC Nixon Ronald W NNVA wrote: >Yesterday I noticed that the Water Oak tree in my yard was covered with >bees. They were visiting the small acorns. I have kept bees at my house >for a number of years and have never seen this before. Any thoughts? > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:20:49 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Moving Bees > Can anyone tell me if there are legal restrictions to such bee relocations? > Do I need permissions, inspections? Here's a list of apiarist contact info: http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/who/who.htm#Inspection Here's another: http://www.mda.state.mn.us/apiary/directory.htm > I would also appreciate any advice that would help ensure the well being of > the bees. To insure the well-being of the bees, sell them in California, and start over in Texas. I doubt that anyone other than an experienced bee hauler could cross Arizona and New Mexico when it is hot and have their bees survive. Haul all the hardware you want, but the most likely scenario for any first attempt with no experience is that one would arrive with dead hives and melted brood combs. There are just too many things that can go wrong, all of them fatal for the bees. > Travel time should be no more than 3 days. Well, from San Diego to El Paso would be about 11 hours, to Austin 20 hours, and to Houston 23 hours. You weren't planning on sightseeing along the way, were you? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:32:30 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Kim Flottum of Bee Culture Magazine Kim Flottum's surgical work went fine. He sent me an e-mail Saturday the 10th. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 06:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 11 Jul 2004 to 12 Jul 2004 (#2004-189) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oak secretions. I am quite used to seeing oaks secreting great amounts of "sweet" honey bee attractants in Spain during the Fall when the acorns are ripe but did not know that this could be occurring this early in the season. Room for learning in this beekeeping world. Best regards and God bless. Dr. Rodriguez -- Proclaiming The Lordīs expression and creation with our honey bees. __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:01:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara &Tom Patterson Subject: help fight the Beekeeping ban in Crestline, OH In-Reply-To: <426DE719.2D3F458F.023E1E12@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The latest news on the beekeeping ban in Crestline Ohio is that they will do a final reading of the ordinance and vote on it on Monday, July 26. At this time we can all help fight this by sending letters of support to the local newspaper, the Crestline Advocate, P.O. Box 226 Crestline, OH 44827 crestlineadvocate@bright.net The deadline for being published before the next city council meeting is noon 7/19 CDT. for reference : From The Plain Dealer Cleveland, Ohio Beekeeper stung by town's law on hives Sunday, July 04, 2004 Michael Sangiacomo, Plain Dealer Reporter Crestline, Ohio- Bees and their keepers are not welcome in this town, which mystifies and saddens the only beekeeper in town. "I can't help but take it personally when a whole law is aimed at me," said David Duncan, a beekeeper for more then 20 years. City officials admitted that the law, which could take effect this month, is aimed at Duncan. "A person who lives close to Duncan is allergic to bees and asked the city to outlaw beekeeping," said Mark Milliron, assistant safety director of Crestline, a city with about 5,000 residents west of Mansfield. "We realized we had no legislation about beekeeping, so we drew one up." City Council gave the proposal a first reading last week. It must pass two more readings before it can become law. After that, anyone harboring bees in the city would face minor misdemeanor charges and fines. "This is just so ridiculous," said Duncan. "I have two or three hives at my home and 20 in a two-acre property at the city limits. The rest of my hundred hives are spread out around the area. My bees pollinate backyard gardens and trees all over the city. "Getting rid of my hives is not going to protect this person who is allergic to stings. What about feral bees? Wasps? Yellowjackets? Those are the insects that are more likely to sting a person." Milliron said the ordinance would not allow Duncan to keep his bees under a "grandfather clause" - a provision that would allow an operation that predated the law to continue after the law took effect. Milliron said similar ordinances exist in a handful of other communities, including Willoughby. No bee complaints have been filed in Willoughby since the ordinance was passed in 1983. "Crestline's ordinance outlaws all bees," Duncan said. "I'm allergic to cats; should we outlaw all cats? Wouldn't it be wiser for the one person who is allergic to bees just to keep medication with her at all times? Wouldn't that be smarter?" Jim Tew, the bee specialist at the Ohio State University Honey Bee Laboratory in Wooster, said the bees will not follow the law. "I'm very disappointed to hear this," he said. "Eliminating the city's only beekeeping will not stop bees, wasps and other stinging insects from coming into the city. I wonder if the city realizes how important beekeepers are to the state's agricultural economy?" Duncan said if the law is passed, he would move his hives out of the city. "It just does not make sense to me," he said. "We have a person in town with a pet wolf that escaped its yard and chased a kid on a bike last week, and no one says a word about that. But I have a couple beehives, and they pass a law against me." :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::