From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:50:35 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A7A4906F for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlp012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0407C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 79854 Lines: 1771 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:30:09 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Maine Blueberry Growers Get What They Pay For The basic problem here is that when you rent the absolute minimum number of hives, less than ideal weather can result in much less pollination, much smaller harvests, and much lower profits. http://www.bangornews.com/business/article.cfm?ID=425694 No fees, no beekeepers. No beekeepers, no bees. No bees, no pollen. No pollen, no crop. No crop, no food. No food, no society. No society, no fees. No fees, no beekeepers. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:23:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Maine Blueberry Growers Get What They Pay For In-Reply-To: <003c01c46abb$498ef230$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > The basic problem here is that when you rent the > absolute minimum number of hives, less than ideal > weather can result in much less pollination, much > smaller harvests, and much lower profits. From the article: Quote-The projected drop in the crop is because of considerable winter injury to the plants as well as a good amount of mummyberry disease, which is caused by a fungus. Additionally, the cool, wet conditions of spring and summer curtailed the pollination of the fields. -Unquote We had a bad winter here in Maine. Winter injury caused a major reduction in strawberries and apples, which I can attest to since I grow both. (In addition, we lost all our roses.) I have twice the number of hives I had last year, so it is not the bees available. The blueberry growers have generally been good and tend to go toward the higher numbers of colonies to pollinate, not the minimum. They still do not know what the actual number of colonies is to get maximum pollination, so they tend toward more is better since that has worked in the past. Some are trying to run tests to arrive at the right number, but seasons like this one do not help. Our weather has been cold and wet most of the spring and summer. Yesterday it was about 65F for a max. We might see the sun today after a week of rain, cold and clouds. Not the greatest weather for pollination, especially with clover in bloom. The weather cycle has been this way since early spring when we had a long, warm spell which tricked some plants into an early start, then a cold snap that killed the tender ones off, along with any buds/blossoms on the more hardy. Plus, with the extended cold and wet, fungus diseases have thrived (as I saw on my strawberry blossoms). But, to confound me, my peaches did make it through the winter and there is even some fruit. But they did blossom well after the late freeze. Growing things in Maine is a challenge. Those who have lived here a while know, in Maine, there are only two seasons, winter and the 4th of July. Bill Truesdell (as I type this, wearing a sweatshirt to stay warm.) Bath (the frozen tundra), Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 06:54:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had a bee call last summer from a man with "a million bees" in his yard. When I arrived they were all over a single oak tree in his yard. One had to speak up to talk over the buzz. In my experience, an unusual experience. I don't know why just that tree or just that year. I told him to enjoy mother nature's show. He did. They ultimately left and did not put on the same show this year. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA > Yesterday I noticed that the Water Oak tree in my yard was covered with > bees. They were visiting the small acorns. I have kept bees at my house > for a number of years and have never seen this before. Any thoughts? > > Ron Nixon > Chesapeake, VA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:33:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Maine Blueberry Growers Get What They Pay For In-Reply-To: <40F7BACD.2010206@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:23:57 -0400 From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Maine Blueberry Growers Get What They Pay For To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > Growing things in Maine is a challenge. Those who have lived here a > while know, in Maine, there are only two seasons, winter and the 4th > of July. Growing things has its challenges here also, where we have also two seasons, pleasant and hot. It's been over 100 several times lately. We hit 106 Saturday, with 100% humidity. I guess that finishes the 'maters.... Wouldn't it be nice if we could strike a happy medium? Fortunately we are supposed to cool to the low 90s the rest of the week. Any bees left here are pretty stressed. Dave in SC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:32:35 -0700 Reply-To: mdshepherd@xerces.org Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew Shepherd (Xerces Society)" Subject: Stop the EPA from Removing Restrictions on Pesticides Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stop the EPA from Removing Restrictions on Pesticides ISSUE: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is proposing to change the labels= for pesticides used to control adult mosquitoes. These label changes will= weaken the basic regulations that protect our waterways, aquatic and= terrestrial invertebrates, including pollinators, and other animals from= these chemicals. For more background and a sample letter on the issue go to: http://www.xerces.org/mosquitospray_actionalert_7-13-04.htm TAKE ACTION: Write EPA by July 27 Tell the EPA not to make changes to adult mosquito pesticide labels,= because the changes will result in harming, not improving, the public= health and the environment. Ask the EPA to: (1) Keep all label protections for water bodies. Pesticides should not be= sprayed over water unless they are proven safe for all aquatic organisms.= Buffer zones should be mandated for pesticides that are toxic to aquatic= life. (2) Keep bee labeling to protect pollinators, most importantly bees and= butterflies, from being needlessly harmed. Pollinators are vital to life= as we know it. They are responsible for much of the food we eat, not to= mention food for wild animals. . (3) Fully disclose all aquatic species that may be impacted by the= pesticide, whether the animals have been specifically tested or if= evidence from related species indicates that they may be harmed by= specific pesticides. Species lists on labels should not be limited only to= groups that have been subjected to tests on that particular pesticide. (4) Mandate consultation with state and local agencies before spraying to= assure that all regulations and laws are being followed and that there are= no at-risk species, including invertebrates, in the area that might be= harmed by spraying. (5) Not give a "blank check" permitting pesticide spraying at any time, in= any place when there is a perceived "public health threat." After all this= time living with mosquitoes, mosquito abatement districts and vector= control offices should have plans in place to control mosquito levels= using techniques and chemicals with the least impact on human health and the environment. SEND COMMENTS TO EPA ON OR BEFORE JULY 27, 2004 By e-mail: opp-docket@epa.gov, Attention: Docket ID Number OPP-2004-0018 By mail: Public Information and Records Integrity Branch (7502C), Office of= Pesticide Programs, EPA, 1200 Pennsylvania Ave. NW, Washington, DC= 20460-0001, Attention: Docket ID Number OPP-2004-0018. For more information: EPA Federal Register Notice: http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-PEST/2004/April/Day-28/p9621.htm EPA's Recommendations: http://www.epa.gov/PR_Notices/draftpr2004-XX.pdf Beyond Pesticides factsheet: http://www.beyondpesticides.org/MOSQUITO/DOCUMENTS/WNVfactsheet7_8_04.pdf Note: the proposed changes would apply only to products labeled for= wide-area application of adulticides (not larvicides) by ground or aerial= equipment, typically as Ultra Low Volume sprays or fogs, and not to home= and garden use products that may list mosquitoes on the label. ________________________________________________________ Matthew Shepherd Director, Pollinator Conservation Program ________________________________________________________ The Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation 4828 SE Hawthorne Boulevard, Portland, OR 97215, USA Tel: 503-232 6639 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org Web: www.xerces.org ________________________________________________________ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:21:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Joe Miller (Bethel NC USA)" Subject: Sourwood I am trying to learn everything possible about sourwood honey production in NC. We took a small vacation to pick up bee supplies and fell in love with the NC mountains. Does anyone know about sourwood to help guide me? After visiting with someone on top of a mountain, it seems to be elevation dependent??? What areas does it grow in? Thank you! nursebee@juno.com Joe :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:51:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: davidbrowder Subject: Re: Sourwood MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Seen sourwood trees growing as far east as Raleigh. Guessing this "only grows in the mountains" stuff got started as some sort of a sales pitch. Keep an eye peeled for em blooming around the end of June/first of July. I live in Lexington NC and Sourwood trees are fairly common here. Couldn't get my hives up there this year but one of my favorite spots for the Sourwood bloom is up 220 North (Above Greensboro)right at the Virginia line. Best honey around!! Not sure just how far "Down East" they grow though. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:03:07 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Maine Blueberry Growers Get What They Pay For >> Growing things in Maine is a challenge. Those who have lived here a >> while know, in Maine, there are only two seasons, winter and the 4th >> of July. >> Bill Truesdell (as I type this, wearing a sweatshirt to stay warm.) >> Bath (the frozen tundra), Maine > Growing things has its challenges here also, where we have also > two seasons, pleasant and hot. It's been over 100 several times > lately. We hit 106 Saturday, with 100% humidity. I guess that > finishes the 'maters.... > Wouldn't it be nice if we could strike a happy medium? Fortunately > we are supposed to cool to the low 90s the rest of the week. The happy medium between Maine and South Carolina is, of course, Virginia. Upper 70s today, and low humidity. Maybe low 80s this weekend at worst. The only drawback is that on quiet afternoons we are bothered by the faint sound of beekeeper teeth grinding from Maine to Florida! jim (Summer better than others!) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:11:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Stop the EPA from Removing Restrictions on Pesticides In-Reply-To: <200407161532350947.01C36519@spineless.xerces.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read the proposed regulation changes. I apologize to the moderators for long quotes. Matthew Shepherd (Xerces Society) wrote: > Stop the EPA from Removing Restrictions on Pesticides > The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is proposing to change the > labels for pesticides used to control adult mosquitoes. These label > changes will weaken the basic regulations that protect our waterways, > aquatic and terrestrial invertebrates, including pollinators, and > other animals from these chemicals. The changes are a result of problems when there is a natural disaster (hurricane was the example) and there is an explosion in the population of mosquitoes and flies. It is a public health issue. The States had a problem in spraying after such a disaster because of the restrictions. The changes relate to the States (and tribal councils), not to all in the great unwashed (as more or less noted at the very end of the post). > Tell the EPA not to make changes to adult mosquito pesticide labels, > because the changes will result in harming, not improving, the public > health and the environment. If there is no spraying, the public health will be harmed, so there is a contridiction here. > (1) Keep all label protections for water bodies. Pesticides should > not be sprayed over water unless they are proven safe for all aquatic > organisms. Buffer zones should be mandated for pesticides that are > toxic to aquatic life. The regs take this into account. The issue is emergency spraying. The changes also require the affected species to be listed and not a broad statement of aquatic life so the States can determine if they can or cannot spray. The example here was the floodwaters after a hurricane. The label will list thing like mollusks, shrimp, Barney, which, except for the latter, would not normally be found in flood waters. The regs as currently written do not allow spraying over any body of water, even if they are floodwaters. > (2) Keep bee labeling to protect pollinators, most importantly bees > and butterflies, from being needlessly harmed. Pollinators are vital > to life as we know it. They are responsible for much of the food we > eat, not to mention food for wild animals. . Depends on the definition of needlessly. Mosquitos are usually sprayed in the evening or night, when they are most active. The change is only if it is an emergency pronounced by the State and to protect public health. It is not for routine spraying. In the situation noted by the change, then the State can apply the pesticide in the day. Otherwise, there is no change in when it can be sprayed. > (3) Fully disclose all aquatic species that may be impacted by the > pesticide, whether the animals have been specifically tested or if > evidence from related species indicates that they may be harmed by > specific pesticides. Species lists on labels should not be limited > only to groups that have been subjected to tests on that particular > pesticide. Part of this is in the change, to state what species are impacted so the State has better info on what to base there decision. I have no idea how you would implement the last sentence in the preceeding paragraph. > (4) Mandate consultation with state and local agencies before > spraying to assure that all regulations and laws are being followed > and that there are no at-risk species, including invertebrates, in > the area that might be harmed by spraying. It is the State or Tribal agency that is doing the authorization. The change also narrows who can spray. Part of the change requires them to notify the public of any spraying. This seems reasonable until you have to figure out just who needs to be consulted. Again, this is not a private companmy or group that is authorizing the spraying, it is the State. > (5) Not give a "blank check" permitting pesticide spraying at any > time, in any place when there is a perceived "public health threat." > After all this time living with mosquitoes, mosquito abatement > districts and vector control offices should have plans in place to > control mosquito levels using techniques and chemicals with the least > impact on human health and the environment. Even the EPA notes that there are different levels of pesticide control in the States, which is why the change narrows who can do the spraying. This is an area of concern, and the EPA agrees there needs to be stricter controlls. Hence part of the change. > Note: the proposed changes would apply only to products labeled for > wide-area application of adulticides (not larvicides) by ground or > aerial equipment, typically as Ultra Low Volume sprays or fogs, and > not to home and garden use products that may list mosquitoes on the > label. ________________________________________________________ True. But I would have put this at the top (as I did), not at the end after all the links and just before my signature. The change also makes the pesticide only for mosquitoes and not anything else, so the same pesticide, if broad based on the label (even if restricted to qualified appliers), will still be restricted in its use near water. The label for the mosquitoes only pesticide is restricted to approval by the State for use over/near water and, in those cases, only for emergency public health. Otherwise, its use is as before- not to be used over or near water bodies. In a nutshell, not much has changed here for bees except if they are near a water source after a natural disaster and there is a public health problem. We will still have to be notified. It was interesting that bees were a major issue with the EPA in protecting them as much as possible, even with the emergency authorization. The changes looked reasonable to me. The major problem is the level of competency and control in individual States, but that is a problem now, before the change in the regs (as noted by the EPA). Just look at many posts on this list about pesticide spraying. Truth is, in those cases, it did not matter what the regs said. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:56:15 -0400 Reply-To: DanJan Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DanJan Subject: bees not capping honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My only hive has a trait of not finishing capping honey before filling = the next super. What happens is they fill 2-3 suppers but will not = finish capping the bottom 1/3 if the combs in each super. This happened = this spring during the locust flow and again now during the sourwood = flow. My local beekeepers have not seen this kind of behavior before. = It really creates a problem as I cannot=20 remove up to 4 supers to extract. I have good ventilation, the Italian queen is good and producing brood, = and the bees are strong and collecting better than most colonies. Does anyone have any ideas on what is going on and suggestions to remedy = this situation Thanks for any help Dan Veilleux In the mountains of North Carolina Zone 6a :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 20:03:55 -0400 Reply-To: DanJan Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DanJan Subject: Re: Sourwood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sourwood grows from Raleigh north into the mountains. It produces a light flavorful honey. The sourwood flow has ceased in the Wilksboro area and will be over at higher elevations by the end of next week. It seems to grow below 4000 ft and is a slow growing succession tree following logging and cannot compete in a mature forest situation. I many areas it has been almost eliminated as it will not produce good timber. Most of the trees have been used as sled runners in the past. The wood is very hard and burns well. This results in most folks considering it a 'weed" tree and using it for firewood Dan Veilleux In the mountains of North Carolina Zone 6a :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:17:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Howe Subject: sweet pepperbush MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a sweet pepperbush (Clethra) in my backyard not 200 feet from my hives. It is in bloom and full of bees. The only problem is that none of them are honeybees! They look, to my uneducated eye, like bumblebees. I thought honey bees liked this plant. What is going on? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:14:15 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Sourwood At long last, the secret behind Sourwood will be revealed. It is: Clear Cuts and Brush Fires!! You may wonder why the government continues to allow so much logging in the national forests. Because that's where the trees are!!! You may ask why the brush fires are always so far away from the paved roads, and quite a hike even from the gravel roads. Because that's where the overgrown underbrush is!!! To find good sourwood, you map both where logging permits are issued, and brush fires. Then you wait a year, maybe two. Then you make a site visit, to see how much sourwood is growing. Maybe you help it along a little, using your handy chainsaw and brush cutters to eliminate some competing growth. In the national forests, too much of this would be illegal without a logging permit, but "limited clearing of underbrush" is allowed to permit vehicle and foot passage along existing roads and trails, wink wink, nudge nudge. Then you wait a few more years, during which time you figure out just how much ad-hoc road improvement you must do to bring hives in over what is now an abandoned "fire trail" or "logging road", fit only for front loaders and other caterpillar-tracked vehicles. If the site is in a national forest, you must do such ad-hoc road improvement yourself at your own expense. After 4 to 5 years, you have your very own super-secret sourwood site! No matter how secret, you will be sharing it with the bears, so the challenge for the winter of the 4th year is to create a trailer or other enclosure that is bear proof, yet portable. After your main flow, you harvest, and take your best hives up into the hills or out into the woods along with every super of (still "wet", and therefore "baited") drawn comb you can stack on them. Then you leave the hives there, and hope that they gather a sourwood crop and are not turned into toothpicks by a bear. It helps to let one's forest ranger and/or national park rangers know where your "secret site" is, so they can inform you when bears are sighted near your site. The will also tend to check on your site to see that it remains undisturbed by bored teenagers. After a few years, the other trees (mostly pine) start to overshadow the sourwood, so you must be constantly looping through the process above to find a new site. Now there should no longer be any wonder why sourwood honey fetches such a high price. :) jim (It's an ill wind that blows no minds) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:40:06 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: bees not capping honey > What happens is they fill 2-3 suppers but will not finish > capping the bottom 1/3 if the combs in each super. Well, what moisture do samples of honey from the capped areas versus the uncapped area measure on a refractometer? If the honey is within spec, waiting for capping would simply delay your harvest. If the honey in the uncapped area is NOT within spec, then one must wait. I never pull supers that contain even a minority of uncapped honey without doing some spot checking with a refractometer on the uncapped frames. My personal experience has been that once the bees start capping a frame, the whole frame will be "within spec", but making any general statement about the actions of bees is a dangerous practice of pure speculation. One possible scenario is that you have had a break in the brood cycle, and the colony lacks sufficient bees of wax scale producing age to cap over the entire set of frames, but has sufficient bees of that age to partly cap over each frame. I don't know that all lines of bees start at the top of a frame when capping and work down, but my bees (NWCs) certainly do. jim (If the bands "Phish" and "Styx" merged, would they call themselves "Phish Styx"? What about "The Police" and "The Cars"?) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:39:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Angela and Keith Copi Subject: Menthol with screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is probably a dumb question, but can menthol be used affectively in = hives with screened bottom boards? Do I need to cover the screens = during the treatment period? Thanks, Keith :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:04:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Sourwood To ALL: To those who have missed me I have been very busy writing and extracting spring honey, moving bees to my sourwood yards, supering, and moving bees to pumpkins. Jim has given a good answer bears included, also you have to keep these yards out of sight, and have a good relationship with the landowner. A good place to visit is http://sourwoodhoney.com for a little taste of sourwood honey:) Regards, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC (On the edge of Sourwood Country) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:31:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: bees not capping honey Dan wrote: "My only hive has a trait of not finishing capping honey before filling the next super. What happens is they fill 2-3 suppers but will not finish capping the bottom 1/3 if the combs in each super. This happened this spring during the locust flow and again now during the sourwood flow. My local beekeepers have not seen this kind of behavior before. It really creates a problem as I cannot remove up to 4 supers to extract." Given all the positives, "strong hives and better than most colonies", I suggest that the sourwood flow this year in Watauga, Wilkes and Avery Counties has been rather poor at the beginning, mostly cloudy and overcast with rain for the 1st 12 days followed by better conditions but not great. The bloom is still going on at the higher elevations more northern counties. Let your bees finish capping their honey if you can, or do the shake test or use a refractometer per Fischer's suggestion. Next year I would force them to cap about 85% of a super prior to putting on another super unless you have the bees so crowded as to completely fill two or three drawn supers as you put on your supers, having finished extraction from spring honey. You really need crowded hives to produce sourwood honey in a marginal flow. It's been that way in your neck of the woods this year and much of the Blue Ridge to the southwest. Regards, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsvile, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:48:18 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sch=FCrer?= Subject: Re: bees not capping honey Hi there Some message from Switzerland ... Not having all capped seems not a problem to me. As Jim already pointed out, if about 1/3 of the comb is capped, the honey in the whole comb should be good and ripe to harvest. I never had problems with that and also learned it this way during my course for beekeepers. There is a quite simple test, whether the honey is ripe. Just take the comb and holding it horizontal, shake it against the floor with a quick shake. You should do this over some place where you can see whether liquid is shaken out of the comb. If you see no drops falling out, the honey is ok, if the honey is not ripe enough and has too much moisture, you will see drops falling out. Using this method, you do not need any refractometers or other instruments when checking your honey. By the way ... the combs at the side of the supper usually hold most moisture, so if they are ok, then the whole supper will most probably be ok. regards, dieter schuerer :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:38:38 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Natural Health Products Regulations In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040703214930.03e7db68@pop3.wcoil.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Natural Health Products Regulations now came into force in Canada. I wonder if anyone knows its consequences for beekeepers. Are we still allowed to sell poducts like : propolis syrup, wax and propolis hands cream, lip balms, apitherapy products etc. Did the CHC took part to the regulations public consultation phase ? Hervé www.emelys.com Natural Health Products Regulations : French : http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/nhpd-dpsn/regs_cg2_tc_f.html English : http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/nhpd-dpsn/regs_cg2_tc_e.html Créez gratuitement votre Yahoo! Mail avec 100 Mo de stockage ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Dialoguez en direct avec vos amis grâce à Yahoo! Messenger !Téléchargez Yahoo! Messenger sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:30:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Menthol with screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Screened Bottom boards do NOT effect the use of menthol. Put menthol on the top bars of brood frames, and menthol fumes are heavier than air and go down. The greatest mistake is trying to use menthol in cool temperatures. Around the Washington DC and Baltimore area, menthol should be used by August 15th and generally (not always) September is TOO LATE. George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:08:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: bees not capping honey In-Reply-To: <037e01c46d18$2ced04f0$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >What happens is they fill 2-3 suppers but will not finish >capping the bottom 1/3 if the combs in each super. Jim and others have answered this, but there is one more possible but not probable reason some are uncapped. If there is a dearth of nectar (a prolonged dry spell), they might have uncapped some cells and are moving honey down. Some years beekeepers in Maine report full supers in July and wonder where all the honey went in late August. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:15:17 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Menthol with screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Imirie wrote: > Screened Bottom boards do NOT effect the use of menthol... The same applies to thymol - I have found no difference between solid floors and OMFs (Open Mesh Floors with nothing underneath - except the ground 3" below) Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:37:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Oak trees I've seen this just in the last weeks, and today I took off work to go look close, and the oaks are covered with aphids, and the ants are harvesting honey dew from the aphids. It was windy, and the pictures didn't turn out well, but you can see them stroke the aphids and the aphids are giving off honeydew into the ant's mouths. I wonder if the bees are doing this as well, especially as the lack of rain has been very severe this year. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:42:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Bees and yellow jackets This year is as bad or worse than last, with Yellow Jackets swarming in front of bee hives. Their method is to subdue the bee, cut off it's head, and eat a small amount of flesh from the thorax, then fly off to the nest. Here's a picture of one who has just removed the head of the bee and is feeding. Observe the bee's head in the corner. http://www.pbase.com/image/31353628 But sometimes the bees do kill a few wasps. This bee locked it's jaws around the Yellow Jacket, and I found both dead together in this position while the ants were harvesting the remains of both. http://www.pbase.com/image/31552504 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:08:00 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Curtis Crowell Subject: Bees and yellow jackets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've notices yellow jackets seizing the corpse of a dead member of their own species, fly off with it then detach the head and eat something from within the thorax. /C.Crowell - NJ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:33:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Shoemaker Subject: Re: Bees and yellow jackets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several years ago I had a serious yellow jacket problem and solved it was a trap of my own design. I used a 16D box nail to make many holes in the top of a gallon can. I then placed some scrap honey inside and smeared some on the outside of the top. I trapped hunreds in a very short time. Note: I made the holes from the outside of the can and believe this must be done to be sucdessful. Happy trapping. Jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 03:44:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: dead bees head in Aside from starvation what might cause bees to die in the typical head in the cell starvation position? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:11:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Allen Subject: Primatine mist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if anyone could provide a reference indicating how effective Primatine Mist was against anaphylaxis. Primatine Mist is an over the counter measured dose epinephrine inhailer . I could not find what I was looking for in the archives. It would seem to me that if Primatine Mist was effective and one could still breath, it would provide excellent dosage control, deliver the epinefrine to the area of the body where needed, be easy to administer, and not require a doctors prescription. I have no medical training so I may be way out in left field. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:46:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dieter Schuerer Subject: Payments for pollination I am a beekeeper in Switzerland. I have heard, that in the US beekeepers are paid by fruit growers for bringing bee hives to the fruit gardens to pollinate them. As we do not know this system at all here, I would like to get some more information on that issue. like: - how does the fruit grower contact the beekeeper (where does he get the address from?) - how much in advance is the order given - what amount does the fruit grower pay to the beekeeper? - how many hives are calculated per apple tree (or whatever tree)? - is there any regulation on the travel with bees in the USA? Here we are not allowed to travel between April 1st and May 31st because of some fungi that could be spread with the bees. If I get enough anwers, I would like to prepare a speach at our local beekeepers assoc. about this issue. thanks in advance. Dieter Schuerer, Frauenfeld, Switzerland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:51:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Payments for pollination In-Reply-To: <200407201346.i6KBpNJ4015310@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You should get answers to you specific questions. In the meantime, an excellent source is Dave Green's pollination pages. http://www.pollinator.com/ Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:01:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Payments for pollination In-Reply-To: <200407201346.i6KBpNJ4015310@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:46:27 -0400 From: Dieter Schuerer Subject: [BEE-L] Payments for pollination To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > I have heard, that in the US > beekeepers are paid by fruit growers for bringing bee hives to > the fruit gardens to pollinate them. As we do not know this system at > all here, I would like to get some more information on that issue. All you ask, and more, can be found at The Pollination Home Page: http:pollinator.com Spend a few days and follow out the links and you've basically gained a college course in pollination. A listing is free for any beekeeper who provides pollination service. We have few listings from Europe, so additions are welcome. (By the way, some beekeepers want to refer to them as ads. They are not ads, just a listing.) Dave in SC, USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:34:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: josh jaros Subject: Re: dead bees head in In-Reply-To: <200407200744.i6K7iaDa011617@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tom Elliott wrote: Aside from starvation what might cause bees to die in the typical head in the cell starvation position? Tom, I've seen bees in this position after herbicides and fungicides have been applied in nearby fields. Sometimes a whole hive can get wiped out. Josh Jaros --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:01:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gerald Herrin Subject: Advice on Bad Combs In-Reply-To: <200407200744.i6K7iaDa011617@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to ask some for advice: I was given a hive (the owner found that he had a severe allergy to bee stings), two deep supers, and when I opened the hive I found that it had been given plastic foundation which the bees appeared to dislike; that is, comb is malformed, joined together, areas only partially drawn out, and in order to really examine it, I will have to literally cut the comb out. I know the overwintered queen has been superceded (how? I just happened to see the old queen being thrown out of the front of the hive by workers. I had never seen that before). I want to get rid of all 18 frames of badly drawn comb and replace with a combination of good drawn comb and foundation. I'm tempted to wait until spring, but I really don't know. The main honey flow here seems to have stopped or, at least, greatly slowed down. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Gerald geraldherrin@earthlink.net "Tam saeva et infesta virtutibus tempora." Tacitus, Agricola I. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:30:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: davidbrowder Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Had the same problem with the black pierco.The only way I could get even combs was by feeding em sugar water. Like all they could eat. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:48:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs In-Reply-To: <26D50675-DA7F-11D8-A6FC-000D93506240@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:01:05 -0500 From: Gerald Herrin Subject: [BEE-L] Advice on Bad Combs To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > I want to get rid of all 18 > frames of badly drawn comb and replace with a combination of good > drawn comb and foundation. Turn it upside down and put a box of good comb (probably too late to use foundation, and anyway you want them to go to it quickly, before they rip out the overturned comb and rebuild it) on top of them. Feed if no flow. The queen will usually move up, since she doesn't like to lay in inverted comb. As soon as you see eggs, get an excluder between. Dave in SC, USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:13:45 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs > ...two deep supers... > ...I want to get rid of all 18 frames of badly drawn comb There's a big clue - "18". I'm going to guess that you have a hive where 9 frames of bare foundation were placed in a 10 frame hive. This is a classic recipe for a royal mess. > and replace with a combination of good drawn comb and foundation. Cut away only what you must to allow the frames to be removed, and insert a 10th frame into each box. If the bees want to draw comb in mid-summer, they will. If not, they will at least "clean up" at bit, and have a chance to draw comb properly next spring. jim (Some don't like my personality. That's OK, I have 4 others.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:17:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/20/04 3:01:28 PM, geraldherrin@EARTHLINK.NET writes: << I found that it had been given plastic foundation which the bees appeared to dislike; that is, comb is malformed, joined together, areas only partially drawn out, and in order to really examine it, I will have to literally cut the comb out. I know the overwintered queen has been superceded (how? I just happened to see the old queen being thrown out of the front of the hive by workers. I had never seen that before). I want to get rid of all 18 >> Just another CLASSIC case where some beginner doesn't believe in becoming EDUCATED about bee behavior, gets all 'screwed up' and then puts the blame on PLASTIC foundation. The truth is that he used only 9 frames rather than 10 frames PACKED VERY TIGHTLY TOGETHER to get the bees to draw the foundation into DRAWN COMB. And Gerald, you HAVE to know or realize that NO honey bees of any race, in any continent, at any time of year will DRAW FOUNDATION INTO DRAWN COMB UNLESS THERE IS A NECTAR FLOW IN PROGRESS! We beekeepers can FOOL the bees sometimes by feeding them 1:1 sugar syrup (1 pound sugar dissolved in 1 pint of water) as a substitute nectar, and they will draw foundation into drawn comb with some reluctance, but surely not in September or October. You might try it now depending on your location. Regarding PLASTIC foundation: I wish it had been available 72 years ago when I started beekeeping in 1933. Twenty-five years ago, I switched all my 100+ colonies over to Dadant's PLASTICELL, which involved 8000 frames, and have been totally delighted ever since. Yes, bees might work pure beeswax foundation quicker than plastic, but beeswax foundation, wiring of frames, heat collapse, etc., is a real pain in the A__. Some people refer to DURAGILT as plastic. In my opinion DURAGILT should be BARRED from production - it is JUNK. If anything damages the wax covering of the plastic sheet underneath the wax, there is no way known to mankind to get the bees to rebuild on that location. But with PLASTICELL, if the bees make too many drone cells, or fill too many cells with pollen, you just take your hive tool and scrape away the unwanted wax and pollen, give it back to the bees DURING A NECTAR FLOW, and "voila" they restore it to a beautiful brood frame. Ge rald, you must be new, STOP guessing, experimenting, and paying too much attention to those "good old boys", spend $25 and buy a copy of the THIRD EDITION of the BEEKEEPERS HANDBOOK by Dr. Diana Sammataro, published in April 1998 and START LEARNING so you can become a successful beekeeper in a few short years without many costly mistakes. I hope I have helped. George Imirie, Ph.D. CERTIFIED EAS MASTER BEEKEEPER This is my 72nd continuous year of beekeeping near Washington, DC Past President of Maryland State Beekeepers Author of George's PINK PAGES on several WEB sites: www.mainebee.com or www.beekeeper.org or www.beeequipment.com Author of American Beekeeping Federation HOBBYIST TIPS Founder, 1984, of Montgomery County Beekeepers, still President, 175 paid members, and 12 Master Beekeepers :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:25:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: Primatine mist In-Reply-To: <12e.46b03f6d.2e2e65e5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Since sending my last post, I had a chance to talk to an Emergency Room doctor who says that inhaled epinephrine takes about 10 times the dose as injected epinephrine to achieve the same results. That means the delivered dose of 0.22 mg only has the equivalent effect of 0.022 mg (again, compared to 0.3 mg from an epi-pen). Much too little to be effective in his opinion. ===== Mike Rossander __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:46:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gerald Herrin Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs In-Reply-To: <6d.2eca096d.2e2f2c47@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I appreciate the comments and advice, and George Imrie's thoughts are always appreciated, but I just wish he'd tell us what he really thinks :) Again, many thanks. But George, I still don't like plastic ... (and I think the hive I was given had Duragilt in it ... flat, shiney sections where no self-respecting bee would build anything.) Thanks again Gerald geraldherrin@earthlink.net "Tam saeva et infesta virtutibus tempora." Tacitus, Agricola I. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:41:08 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs Comments: cc: geraldherrin@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Herrin" > workers. I had never seen that before). I want to get rid of all 18 > frames of badly drawn comb and replace with a combination of good drawn > comb and foundation. I'm tempted to wait until spring, but I really One of the best benefits of plastic foundation is that it can be scraped down when you find imperfect comb. There are plenty of beekeepers with opinions on both sides of the fence when it comes to plastic but my thoughts are those beekeepers resistant to plastic haven't properly weighed the advantages or are simply too familiar with the 'other'. Plastic takes a bit of good management to get it drawn properly - but once it's straight you're FAR better off in the long term. Comparison? Solid wax is easy to draw and the bees go right to it - but is a pain to get it mounted straight/proper. Duragilt? Read George Imirie's comments! Once bees chew down on Duragilt they'll never - ever - ever re-draw; Though Duragilt is easier to mount to a frame than solid wax foundation. In my yard ALL Duragilt is destined for the melter if not already disposed. Other? With misplaced/unattended supers, mice and moths will completely destroy all-wax or Duragilt. In the two times I've had bears wreck my yards (once by accident & the other on purpose during a study for the USDA & CDOW) any wax/duragilt frames were turned to splinters. Plastic mounted frames gave the bears something else to think about during their feast following the first bite, and will instead 'carefully' lick off the comb and leave the frame intact. Not a great 'plus' but definitely a positive if your hives are at risk to bears. Plastic is an absolute bother to get your bees to draw out. The reason why you have terrible comb in the first place is the fellow whom gave you the equipment ran 9 frames per deep (18 frames total) violating proper bee-space. Put in 10 frames to get them to draw. Once drawn - THEN - take out the 10'th frame -if- you prefer to run 9 frames/deep. You will NOT get good frames drawn with plastic unless you pay attention to bee-space. Take the time to scrape off the imperfections even if it's tearing off 100% of the comb. Use any burr-comb with scrap honey and rub it onto bare spots. Bees are 1000 times more apt to draw plastic with either sugar-water or honey on the foundation. Feed - Feed- Feed. There is more you could do than just letting them go once the frames are scraped & re-started, such as moving the combs around and inter-spacing the undrawn foundation but since you're new I'll just say let the bees fill it out as they see fit. DO NOT place an undrawn plastic-foundation frame in the middle of your broodnest! If they start drawing burr comb again then take the frames out and scrape down the imperfections and/or try reversing the frame in the same location so as to accommodate proper bee space between that frame and the next one, depending on how the next one is drawn. To answer your hesitation on whether to make the bees re-start on the frames now or next spring: Depending on your area -if- the flow has slowed or stopped, chances are you can still get the bees to draw for at least another month by strong feeding 1:1 by volume (sugar/water). Check your hive every 4 or 5 days for progress. There's no need to pull the frames with brood once they're straight - just pay attention to the outside of the broodnest or just on the edges. Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:25:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: Primatine mist In-Reply-To: <12e.46b03f6d.2e2e65e5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob Allen asked about the effectiveness of Primatene Mist against anaphylaxis. It would be better than nothing but should not be relied upon for any serious threat. When optimally used (something that even most asthmatics do wrong), the Primatene Mist inhaler delivers 0.22 mg of epinephrine. In the midst of a stinging event, most of us are likely to get a much lower effective dose. For comparison, the standard dose of an Epi-pen is 0.30 mg, all of which enters your blood stream quickly. (The dosage for the Epi-pen Junior - for kids under 66 lbs - is 0.15mg.) Second, the respiratory delivery method works best if your primary symptom is shortness of breath. The epinephrine immediately acts as a vasoconstrictor on the alveoli in the lungs. It's uptake and effectiveness for other anaphylactic symptoms is degraded. Finally, as you said in your post, you have to be able to breathe to make it work at all. You also have to be conscious. By the time you can get away from the bees, get your veil off and get to the inhaler, those are questionable assumptions. A co-worker can administer an Epi-pen to you right through the suit and even after you pass out. I'd use the inhaler if I had no other choice. I prefer to keep an Epi-pen at hand. No matter what you do, seek professional medical help immediately afterward. If it was serious enough for you to medicate yourself, it is serious enough to require some follow-up. Mike Rossander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:17:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Lesli St. Clair" Organization: Ithaca College Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs In-Reply-To: <6d.2eca096d.2e2f2c47@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT GImasterBK@AOL.COM wrote: Some people refer to DURAGILT as plastic. In my opinion > DURAGILT > should be BARRED from production - it is JUNK. If anything damages the wax > covering of the plastic sheet underneath the wax, there is no way known to > mankind > to get the bees to rebuild on that location. Not that I'm doubting you, but why? (Yes, I'm new also!). I have wired wax, duragilt, plasticell, and pierco because I bought nucs to start this year, and there was quite a variety of frames. So if Duragilt is plastic coarted with beeswax, why do the bees treat it differently from any other plastic foundation? -- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Lesli St. Clair Systems Administrator, Ithaca College lstclair@ithaca.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:26:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs In-Reply-To: <40FE6CD0.80606@ithaca.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:17 AM 7/21/2004, you wrote: >So if Duragilt is plastic coarted with beeswax, why do the bees treat it >differently from any other plastic foundation? Because all the other plastic foundations have comb pattern formed as part of the plastic. The bees work this readily given a good flow even when the wax is worn or scraped off (and even with the plastic sections from bee-o-pack i'm happy to say). They won't draw a flat sheet of plastic (or a flat sheet of wax for that matter.) -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:05:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Kashmir Bee Virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yesterday one of my coworkers mentioned he’d heard on Paul Harvey’s radio commentary about the Kashmir virus killing bees in B.C., Canada. Last night I came across this: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/displayarticle1585.html Does anyone have more information to offer than what appeared in the B.C. newspaper article? Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:07:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: josh jaros Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs In-Reply-To: <002301c46ef6$17fd6870$286a0918@ecapital83wvji> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have found that putting a unwaxed frame in the middle of the brood nest helps prevent swarming. The key is that there should be sealed brood on both sides of the unwaxed frame, then the bees are forced to draw it out. Under these circumstances, there will be many bees and if they are looking to swarm, there is probably a good honeyflow as well. Also, I have found that bees will draw out 9 frames just as well as ten unwaxed frames when mine are on a good honeyflow. I just recently put several boxes out and they have almost drawn out all nine in the 7 mediums that I put out about a week ago. As far as what frames are best, for convenience there is no doubt that the plastic rules the coop. They are more durable, and when the comb goes bad all you have to do is scrape it off and put it back in. If your in beekeeping more as a hobby and want to fool around with all the wiring and extra work, knock yourself out, and if it makes you happy and that much more interested in beekeeping, good. Josh Jaros --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:06:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: hbee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! Where can I get an "expert" statement on the weights of the following items? I searched the archives with no result. 1) Empty medium frame with drawn foundation w/o honey 2) Empty medium super w/o frames 3) Inner cover 4) Outer cover Yes, I know that I could weigh these items myself, but I need a third party to confirm my results. Please email me directly at: admin@mainebee.com Kind regards, Herb www.mainebee.com www.stonycritters.com Don't confuse me with facts..my mind's made up! "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." Douglas Adams :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:08:30 -0400 Reply-To: DanJan Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DanJan Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have had the same experience with plastic combs. I find in order for them to draw them you can't give them any choice. We have a good fall honey flow which we leave on the bees for the winter. I just crowd them and it leaves them little choice but to draw it out. Do not mix wax or drawn comb as they will just draw them out extra deep and you will have a mess. After they are drawn use them like any other drawn comb Dan Veilleux In the mountains of North Carolina Zone 6a :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:33:25 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Advice on Bad Combs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "josh jaros" 'There is no doubt that the plastic rules the coop. They are more durable, and when the comb goes bad all you have to do is scrape it off and put it back in.If you are in beekeeping more as a hobby and want to fool around with all the wiring and extra work, knock yourself out, and if it makes you happy and that much more interested in beekeeping, good.' The middle road seems never to get a mention in these discussions. Plastic frames that split open down the middle so you just lay in a new sheet of unwired foundation and snap back together. The plastic is in fact polypropolene and the bees seem to leave it very clear of propolis and odd wax. Each half of the frame incorporates two vertical strips that keeps the foundation flat between them, so no need for wires. Bees readily draw out the wax foundation when they want to - and do not need stimulative feeding, so no risk to the purity of the honey. No fooling about with wiring , no extra work compared to scraping down, no risks of diluting the floral honey with sugar honey - and cheaper (in UK at least). Robin Dartington > > Josh Jaros > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::