From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:49:53 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6CB349065 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlj012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0407E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 46944 Lines: 1130 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:25:29 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Clean honey > If North American beekeepers get smart, and get with the program, > this trend to demanding rigourous documentation may prove to be > a beneficial and help maintain price for qualifying product, > inasmuch as some low-priced imported product may have difficulty > providing a truly convincing history and a reassuring enough paper > trail to satisfy careful corporate buyers Given the successful track record in creating paper trails for "false flag" country of origin exports/re-imports sufficient to claim that Chinese honey is a Product of Singapore, Vietnam, Malaysia, and so on, I am confident that these same individuals will have one of the best-looking "Quality Assurance" paper trails in the industry, worthy of ISO 9001 certification. This is not to say that their drums will suddenly be new, clean or even acceptable for multi-mode transport, or that the honey within will be "clean", or even actually honey. > and their insurers. This is an interesting point. How many recalls does the FDA impose before an insurance company raises liability insurance rates for that honey packer? I'm forced to wonder if any honey packer, even the large co-ops, even have product liability insurance. I know that my "errors and omissions" premiums have more than doubled since 1995, and I've never had a claim. jim ("Lawn and Order" in beekeeping can't be just "To Deflect and Swerve") :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:16:36 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mats Andersson Subject: Feeding heated honey back to the bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello fellow beekeepers. I have a question: After extracting, i melt my cappings wax and i get a few buckets with honey on the bottom and wax on top. I'd like to give this honey back to the bees, but i want to make sure there is not a problem with this. The honey has been subject to a temperature of 90 Celsius for about an hour. What about HMF (i hope i remember the correct three letter combination here)? Is there a problem with feeding this to the bee? /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:16:38 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mats Andersson Subject: Recipies for use of beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello. I am looking for recipies for skin lotions, lip balms, soaps, polishes and whatever stuff can be made from beeswax. Can anyone share some recipies or direct my to a site on the web? /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:01:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Recipies for use of beeswax In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: Mats Andersson > I am looking for recipies for skin lotions, lip balms, soaps, polishes > and whatever stuff can be made from beeswax. Can anyone share some > recipies or direct my to a site on the web? Elaine White is the great guru of such things: http://members.aol.com/oelaineo/formulas.html You can probably find more by googling her name + beeswax. Dave, AKA Pollinator :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:18:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Feeding heated honey back to the bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mats Andersson wrote: > Is there a problem with feeding this to the bee? http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/hmf.html Not recommended after heating so high. See the website for more info. I use my cappings honey for cooking even though all I use is an electric capping knife and no additional processing heat. There is a discernible difference in taste. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:42:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: Clean honey Hi Jim and Everyone, When I was a member of a large honey co-op, they had product liability insurance. But they also maintained a tracking record for every jar of honey packed. They could tell which producer's honey was in a specific jar. This co-op had it's own lab and tested all honey before accepting it. I know of several instances where both domestic and foriegn honey that was rejected by the co-op, was quickly snapped up by other packers without a question. Regards Dennis Knowing where the buck stops, at least for this co-op's jar of honey :>) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:59:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: August ABJ article In-Reply-To: <000801c47201$0778af60$25bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <000801c47201$0778af60$25bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres>, Bob Harrison writes >FORCING PACKERS TO BUY U.S. HONEY >TO SELL WITH THE *PRODUCT OF U.S. LABEL*. We must give the country of origin throughout the EU (or county or locality if in the UK) on our labels now over here - if we didn't already. Mine are named by the parish in which the apiaries are, with a picture which includes the parish church (or by the landmark itself: Godolphin Hill Honey has a digital picture of ... Godolphin Hill, on which I live and have 3 apiaries around), rather like the field number on German wine or the vineyard on the best French wine! These always appeal to the discerning local resident and the visitor who wants to take away a memento. -- James Kilty West Cornwall UK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 21:05:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Graham &/or Annie Law Subject: Research Project- Local honey as treatment for hay fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My wife Annie has been asked to assist in a research project being set = up in the English East Midlands UK (Leicester) to investigate the effects of = honey in the treatment of hay fever. Annie is a nurse lecturer and also a = capable beekeeper has been deemed the =91bee keeper=92 advisor to this research = group. =20 Here is the brief, any help would be gratefully received with perhaps pointers to existing research or relevant experts in this field. =20 Anne Law wrote......... RESEARCH INTO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF LOCAL HONEY AS A TREATMENT FOR = ALLERGIC RHINITIS (HAYFEVER) =20 Research team; Consultant physician specialising in allergies ENT Registrar Clinical Nurse specialist ENT Beekeeper as advisor =20 Background; The research team (excluding the beekeeper) treats patients with = allergic rhinitis, usually those people who have tried the treatments that can be purchased from a pharmacy with no success or those who have severe = symptoms. =20 They have experience from anecdotal patient reports that taking honey = every day from a local source has been effective in relieving their symptoms. =20 A search of the medical literature showed virtually no valid and = reliable research into this subject. =20 The team are developing a research protocol to submit to the local = ethics committee. =20 I (the beekeeper) was invited along to their first meeting as I was = known to keep bees locally to the research site. =20 Following initial discussions there were several questions raised which = I am investigating and it is with these I am asking for help from fellow beekeepers. =20 Questions; =95 Do honey bees collect pollen from grasses? =95 What would be a reasonable radius to take to guarantee = "local" honey =95 How can you get honey analysed for its pollen content - = place, cost, timescale etc? =95 Is there anyone else undertaking this type of research at present? =95 Has there been any research carried out in the past? =95 Are there any organisations that can be applied to for = funding for reserach of this type? =95 What would be the recommended "dose" of honey per day? =95 What could be used as a placebo =20 Many thanks Annie Law ................................................cut Graham & Annie Law Email: web.one@ntlworld.com Web: HYPERLINK "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gandboss"http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gandb= oss =20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.729 / Virus Database: 484 - Release Date: 27/07/2004 =20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:14:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Martin Subject: Re: At What Age do Bees Begin to forage? In-Reply-To: <200407280954.i6S9ZAEE022458@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to all, This discussion began with the comments on the failure of a particular queen cell. It led to the advancement of the theory that a factor in this problem was an inadequate supply of nurse bees. I will attempt to add a little to the subject. a. Bees do take flight outside the hive earlier then most of the literature states. Read about bees emerging and going straight to foraging (still looking for my reference to this) b. Scent factors cannot be ruled out when it comes to a bee finding "home". However this is cannot be stated as the only way they find "home". Otherwise drifting would be a bigger situation. All other discussion aside a shortage of nurse bees is a factor that could affect queen production. And this shortage could be a result of a nectar flow in combination with the age of the bees available to forage for nectar. It is a known observation that a nurse bee does not nurse a larva from egg to capping. This is done by different bees. What would happen if the next expected nurse bee instead went of to gather nectar? A paper titled "Regulation of honey bee division of labor by colony age demography" Huang and Robison, Published in 1996, addresses some of these questions. On Pages 154-155 changes in resource availability is addressed. This was first noted in 1937. This is called behavioral change and is not the same as behavioral development. This causes a young bee to forage during a honey flow. Particularly a happening when there is a shortage of older bees. Another paper (Fergusson and Winston 1988) noted behavioral change in colonies deprived of wax. This is attributed to increased forager activity among older bees transferring to the younger bees. This is just a sample of the information available on the subject. It all points to a possibility that queen cell failure during a honey flow could be attributed to a shortage of nurse bees. Thomas J. Martin Shippensburg, Pa :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:17:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Royal Jelly? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came in today and I am too lazy to write the guy an answer. It is actually a fair question. Any of you royal jelly producers out there care to tackle it? --- begin question --- I would like to know more about where the bees keep the royal jelly they feed the queen or is there any where to store it in the frame. So many products say it has royal jelly in it and I think there's no way to get it if it's not stored in hive. Thanks, don --- end question --- allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 01:04:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: ISBA Journal - Free download In-Reply-To: <200407260400.i6Q401Dq004383@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Indiana State Beekeepers celebrate the start of their 125th year! The newest edition of the ISBA Journal is available for free download from the page at http://hoosierbuzz.com/document/newsletters.html It's dated August 2004 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:44:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Research Project- Local honey as treatment for hay fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit **Good to see this is being tested. my answers are preceded by ** On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 21:05:36 +0100, Graham &/or Annie Law < gandboss@NTLWORLD.COM> wrote: >Questions; >• Do honey bees collect pollen from grasses? **Bees have seen collecting corn and rag weed pollen, both are wind pollen. I almost killed myself once (being highly allergic to rag weed pollen) by chewing a piece of comb honey with pollen. >• What would be a reasonable radius to take to guarantee "local" honey **I would say 50 miles are ok, plants do not change that much. >• How can you get honey analysed for its pollen content - place, >cost, timescale etc? **This is well established. basically dilute with water, centrifuge and count with hemocytometer. The main cost is labor. Need a hemocytometer, centrifuge and a microscope (40x subject, 10 x ocular). >• Is there anyone else undertaking this type of research at present? > >• Has there been any research carried out in the past? **I am not aware of any past of current research on this. Have heard it many times though. >• Are there any organisations that can be applied to for funding >for reserach of this type? **Apitherapy group? (www.apitherapy.org) >• What would be the recommended "dose" of honey per day? **I would say use whatever the folklore says. perhaps one teaspoon a day? >• What could be used as a placebo **Probably the best would be the same honey untralfiltered or simply fine filter with pressure (to remove pollen). It is important to have this study "double-blind". I.e. both the administrator (nurse?) and the eaters do not know which honey is filtered and which one has pollen (the filtered and unfiltered honey are coded and known by one person). Sample size must be large enough (100 patients in each group?), and be balanced with respect to age, gender, medical history etc. To be medically convincing, it will not be an easy study. Probably long term too (3 years?) since honey would not cure that fast. how do you gauge whether the hayfever is getting better or not? need good "assay"... Zachary Huang http://www.msu.edu/~bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:32:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: At What Age do Bees Begin to forage? I think in Allen's case the bees are on average >14 days old. Bees go through cell cleaning, nursing, then receiving nectar and comb builders (also the rare tasks of guarding and undertaking) and finally foraging. So the bees outside the broodnests are about 14 days old and are making honey (drying water, or putting nectar into honey supers) and orientation flights happened about 4-6 days, so these bees do know where their hive is. I recently shook some bees from a hive 6 ft away (on open brood, make sure no queen) to a weak hive and most young bees walked into the new hive, instead of returning to their original hive! This is just opposite to Allen's situation... of course queen breeders know about this and this is how a "starter" colony is made to rear the queen cells -- lots of young bees from different colonies would stay in a nuc in the same yard. Regarding job changes -- nurses cannot simply go forage, because there are many physiological changes involved (juvenile hormone titers are higher in foragers, food glands shrink, amines change, to name a few), so we call this big behavioral switch "behavioral development" (it is not like they can forage one day and then nurse next day -- the changes are not easy and this "reversion" only occur under special circumstances). As Tom mentioned, Robinson and I developed the "social inhibition" model to explain the regulation of foraging age -- basically the age of first foraging is flexible and is dependent on social conditions (colony age structure). You can put all newly emerged bees together with a queen and some workers will forager on day 5-7! if you add some old bees in the same type of colonies, the precocious foraging is inhibited, suggesting there is a chemical (or behavior) from foragers inhibition young bees from becoming foragers... There is a very recently paper (2004, Naturwissenschaften) by Tanya Pankiw (Texas A&M) showing that forager-extracts do delay other bees' foraging age, essentially confirming our 1992 hypothesis. Cheers, Zachary Huang http://www.msu.edu/~bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:49:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? There is no place to store royal jelly except in queen cells... Young workers are the live "storage" because they have the hypopharyngeal glands fully developed, also mandibular glands. The mixture of the two glandular secretions are royal jelly... they only secret the product when receiving the correct stimuli, i.e. queen larvae in cells. They also pass around some jelly for foragers, adult queen and drones -- this is only known recently. So to produce royal jelly, basically you create the same condition as queen rearing. Except you can graft a little larger larvae, wait for 3 days, and threw away the queen larvae and then scoop up the royal jelly. Zachary Huang www.msu.edu/~bees >I would like to know more about where the bees keep the royal jelly they >feed the queen or is there any where to store it in the frame. So many >products say it has royal jelly in it and I think there's no way to get it >if it's not stored in hive. > >Thanks, >don > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:38:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? In-Reply-To: <200407310249.i6V2ejmZ002318@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That seems like a very intensive process. How much royal jelly does a skilled producer get from a decent hive? Keith Zachary Huang wrote: > >So to produce royal jelly, basically you create the same condition as queen rearing. >Except you can graft a little larger larvae, wait for 3 days, and threw away the queen >larvae and then scoop up the royal jelly. > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? In-Reply-To: <200407310249.i6V2ejmZ002318@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zachary Huang wrote: > they only secret the product when receiving the correct stimuli, i.e. queen larvae in cells. > They also pass around some jelly for foragers, adult queen and drones -- this is only > known recently. The Hive and the Honey Bee states that royal jelly is fed to every worker larva for the first three days and to the queen larva continuously, so is this no longer true or are they wrong? \Also from HHB, it is produced in a queenless colony from artificial queen cells containing a 12-36 hour old larva which are discarded after three days and the jelly harvested with a wooden spoon or suction. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:03:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Zac, Thanks for the reply. > They also pass around some jelly for foragers, adult queen and > drones -- this is only known recently. Seems to me that the larvae all get the same diet for about three days immediately after hatching. Is this royal jelly? allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:23:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Research Project- Local honey as treatment for hay fever In-Reply-To: <200407310244.i6V2ejmN002318@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >• What could be used as a placebo If I understand well, and if one considere honey like a drug in pharmaceutical field, the martix of the drug is a mix of sugars (glucose, fructose, maltose, etc.)/water while the active ingredient is... anything else present in the honey. As far as I am aware of pharmaceutical standards, there are 2 kinds of placebo used : one kind to detect any analysis interference, and one kind for clinical study. The first type is exactly the drug (all ingredients kept in same proportions) but the drug substance (the active ingredient). The second type is the matrix (no active ingredient) but in proportions corrected to allow semi-large production (the pill's mass is kept constant). Namely, the proportion of inert ingredient of the matrice (often amidon) will be increased. Pharmaceutical good manufactring production (GMP) require you avoid any contamination of you matrice's ingedients with the active substance. So no contact are allowed. As an example, you have to weight the active ingerdient the last to avoid any contamination of previous ingredient by residus on instruments or in the air. In our case, that means, if I am correct, the placebo would be a mix... of pure sugars and water (now define what is the purity standard for your application !). I would not be comfortable with ultrafiltred honey because I am not shure every potential active substance (who kows ? organic acid, phenolic compounds, enzyme that react on fructose to produce H2O2, many possibilities) would be removed according to the purity standard, and anyway this matrice would have been in contact with active ingeredients. Bonne chance pour le financement ! Hervé Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ? Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:41:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: At What Age do Bees Begin to forage? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think in Allen's case the bees are on average >14 days old. Yes, I agree, but the ones of interest are any that are younger, and it seems to me that there must be some... a least a few. I originally titled this, "At What Age do Bees Begin to forage?", but maybe it should have been, "At What Age are Bees Able to Fly?". > orientation flights happened about 4-6 days, so > these bees do know where their hive is. > > I recently shook some bees from a hive 6 ft away (on open brood, make > sure no queen) to a weak hive and most young bees walked into > the new hive, instead of returning to their original hive! This is just > opposite to Allen's situation... of course queen breeders know about > this and this is how a "starter" colony is made to rear > the queen cells -- lots of young bees from different colonies would > stay in a nuc in the same yard. Yes, we use that technique, too, and there are a number of neat tricks one can do. We even discussed a device to use the effect on this list a few years back. Anyone recall? That is why what I reported seems to me to be an anomaly. The phenomenon I mention is only observed when there has been an uninterrupted heavy flow underway for a few days. I suspect that, in some areas of the continent, this phenomenon is seldom, if ever, seen, since abandonment does not work well except under specific conditions, and requires expert judgement. Moreover, those who promote and use repellents may never have an opportunity to observe it. Also, since what I report is an anomaly (heresy!?), and somewhat unique, I can also understand why some may rush to discount the reports and attempt to explain the observations away by applying dogma. Nonetheless, in removing hundreds of thousands of supers by abandonment over the past three decades, I have been puzzled by observing this on many occasions, and it seems to me that either the youngest, supposedly non-flying bees do not wander those few inches into the supers, or they have had a flight. The other possibilities, following scent, etc. are also possible and cannot be entirely discounted without proof, but do not fit my (somewhat casual) observations. I wonder -- and maybe Zach can help me with this, since it is right down his alley -- i.) How early after emerging bees physically can fly. I suspect this may depend on how well the larvae were fed, since I see some pretty weak looking baby bees in malnourished hives and ii.) How far from the brood baby bees wander, since the supers we set aside from abandoning were sometimes mere inches from brood, but separated from it by an excluder. iii.) Will baby bees go through an excluder? Maybe that explains everything. > Regarding job changes -- nurses cannot simply go forage, because > there are many physiological changes involved (juvenile hormone > titers are higher in foragers, food glands shrink, amines change, to > name a few), so we call this big behavioural switch "behavioural > development" (it is not like they can forage one day and then nurse > next day -- the changes are not easy and this "reversion" only > occur under special circumstances). If the bees do switch to foraging early in a heavy flow, perhaps that, along with the competition for cells from incoming nectar, helps explain the reduction in brood rearing and queen raising during a heavy flow. Thanks, all, for your input on this interesting question. A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 06:42:29 -0400 Reply-To: jkriebel@speakeasy.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jonathan Kriebel Organization: Veritec, Ltd Subject: Bees Foraging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Along the lines of foraging, I have read that bees are relatively late risers. Here, the last few days, I have been observing them working the Cleome in force. This is at 0530-0600. I put in several "beds" (2 x 40 metres) of Cleome, Lupine, Salvia and Larkspur (a partial list). I have noticed them avidly working the Cleome as early as 0530. In addition, I have noticed them actually crawling inside (forcing their way) into the salvia.=20 Another interesting observation is that there is definitely a differentiation between bees collecting Pollen, and those collection = nectar. For the last three days I have noticed that bees were hovering around = the Cleome, and 'touching down' on the long pistil of the flower. These had large amount of red Pollen in their baskets. (I was wondering where = they were getting the red stuff). I watched as yellow jackets (da bastads) deftly flew into the flower mass and went right for the nectar. The = bees however appeared to clumsily attempt to do this, and few succeeded. = This morning, I watched as some collected the pollen, whilst others went for = the nectar. The bees crawled throughout the flower mass/head and collected = the nectar from each blossom, as opposed to the crack headed yellow jackets which would get the nectar from one blossom, then fly to another head = for nectar. The Cleome secretes a droplet of nectar that appears to dry up by 1300, perhaps earlier if in direct sunlight. This morning I watch as a few = bees sparred over the "landing rights." I would imagine that the flow on = other pasturage is at low ebb, in preparation for the dearth before the = autumnal flow. I started keeping a ledger on the bee's activities, as to what = plants I observed them foraging on, at what time, for what material, = temperature, and time of day. I plan to add additional "beds" next year of the = specific flora that provide pasturage during the normal dearth period. I did quite a bit of research on the different honey plants that = appeared to be of value that would succeed here. I am always looking for more information, as the only real books I have come across are Pellet's and Lovell's. Pellet must have been a fascinating individual. I have = several of his texts, and not only are they well written, but very practical. = Of all of the texts on beekeeping I have found, "Productive Beekeeping" = which is one of Lippencott's Farm Manuals (copywrite 1916) was the most = complete, practical and informative that I have read. This includes Sammatro, = whose book was too general (IMHO). I hope this post fits the purpose of the = list. Jonathan B. Kriebel Das Sauen =D5hr Farm 3229 Zepp Rd. Green Lane, PA 18054-2357 Telephone: (610) 864-8581 Facsimile: (215) 234-8573 jbkriebel@speakeasy.net=20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:16:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? That is why they are so expensive -- RJ produced in France sell for 891 Euro per Kg, e.g. The ones sold in US are so cheap because they are all imported from China, I think. I cannot imagine anyone producing it locally here for $50 per Kg. Imported RJ in France sells for 89 Euro per Kg. You can put 60-100 cells per colony and one person can easily handle 6 colonies per day (harvesting and grafting). Average per cell is 25 mg (that is what I remember from experience in 1982 -- my memory might be innacurate). so you can produce 25mg x 60 x 6 = 1500 mg = 1.5 g per day! hmmm... That is not right. perhaps each cell yields 100 mg per day (same weight as a worker, that is probably the maximum)? even then it is only 36 grams... I think I need to charge $400 per lb if I produce it! Anyone wants to buy ? :) :) On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:38:15 -0400, Keith Benson wrote: >That seems like a very intensive process. How much royal jelly does a >skilled producer get from a decent hive? > >Keith > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:46:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? More correctly worker jelly. I think the food worker larvae receives the first 3 days are very similar to RJ, but the proportions of HPG and MG secretions are different. The jelly passed around to adults might be mostly HPG secretions (proteins). MG produces lipids. On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:03:08 -0400, allen dick wrote: >Hi Zac, > >Thanks for the reply. > >> They also pass around some jelly for foragers, adult queen and >> drones -- this is only known recently. > >Seems to me that the larvae all get the same diet for about three days >immediately after hatching. Is this royal jelly? > >allen >A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:28:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: preacher Subject: abandonment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello, Allen do you abandon your supers right at dusk and come back the next morning to pick them up or after dark. preacher :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:06:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: abandonment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Allen do you abandon your supers right at dusk and come back the next > morning to pick them up or after dark. Sometimes, but at other times, we pull them in the early morning and pick them up two hours later, or even pull them mid-day and pick them up a day or two later. We read the bees and the weather, and can usually judge how much we can get away with. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 10:14:17 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That is why they are so expensive -- RJ produced in France sell for 891 Euro per Kg, > e.g. The ones sold in US are so cheap because they are all imported from China, I > think. I cannot imagine anyone producing it locally here for $50 per Kg. Imported RJ > in France sells for 89 Euro per Kg. When the chloramphenicol residue crisis was at its peak, I received several enquiries from European and Asian sources wanting to obtain royal jelly that was free from chloramphenicol. I said yes we could produce it as it dovetails in quite well with a queen rearing operation. I told them I would want about A$750 to A$1000 a kilo and they all said they were getting the Chinese for A$60- A$80 a kilo and I never heard from the enquirers again. Our A$750 to A$1000 a kilo would be about 435 to 580 Euro a kilo or US$240 to US$320 a pound. This is the price Australians used to get for royal jelly several years ago before the cheap Chinese came to the fore. I often wondered how serious they were about getting residue free royal jelly. I know that the Europeans wanted some because of the ban on Chinese honey, royal jelly etc. but I wonder if they suddenly obtained a good supply of royal jelly from a country like Singapore which, a couple of years back, suddenly had all that honey to export. Must have been a douzie of a crop that year. Also there must have been a massive increase in the numbers of beekeepers in Singapore. When the royal jelly is sold here there is usually more extender in the capsule than any royal jelly. Have a look at the ingredients and see. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 10:23:39 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: abandonment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sometimes, but at other times, we pull them in the early morning and pick > them up two hours later, or even pull them mid-day and pick them up a day or > two later. Here in Australia, abandonment is practiced in the far western country when beekeepers are working yapunyah. They usually lift the supers off in the morning and come back in the afternoon. Conditions have a lot to do with abandonment and, in our area, we cannot use the abandonment method because it would set up a big robbing problem. However, if robbing is a problem, you can lift the top super of honey off at dusk, leave a two inch gap in the lid and sit the super on its end on top of the lid. Bees will leave the super during the night and travel back into the hive via the two inch gap. You have to be at the hives before dawn next morning to pick up the supers and straighten up the lid before robbing starts. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:49:53 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6CB349065 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlj012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0407E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 46944 Lines: 1130 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:25:29 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Clean honey > If North American beekeepers get smart, and get with the program, > this trend to demanding rigourous documentation may prove to be > a beneficial and help maintain price for qualifying product, > inasmuch as some low-priced imported product may have difficulty > providing a truly convincing history and a reassuring enough paper > trail to satisfy careful corporate buyers Given the successful track record in creating paper trails for "false flag" country of origin exports/re-imports sufficient to claim that Chinese honey is a Product of Singapore, Vietnam, Malaysia, and so on, I am confident that these same individuals will have one of the best-looking "Quality Assurance" paper trails in the industry, worthy of ISO 9001 certification. This is not to say that their drums will suddenly be new, clean or even acceptable for multi-mode transport, or that the honey within will be "clean", or even actually honey. > and their insurers. This is an interesting point. How many recalls does the FDA impose before an insurance company raises liability insurance rates for that honey packer? I'm forced to wonder if any honey packer, even the large co-ops, even have product liability insurance. I know that my "errors and omissions" premiums have more than doubled since 1995, and I've never had a claim. jim ("Lawn and Order" in beekeeping can't be just "To Deflect and Swerve") :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:16:36 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mats Andersson Subject: Feeding heated honey back to the bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello fellow beekeepers. I have a question: After extracting, i melt my cappings wax and i get a few buckets with honey on the bottom and wax on top. I'd like to give this honey back to the bees, but i want to make sure there is not a problem with this. The honey has been subject to a temperature of 90 Celsius for about an hour. What about HMF (i hope i remember the correct three letter combination here)? Is there a problem with feeding this to the bee? /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:16:38 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mats Andersson Subject: Recipies for use of beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello. I am looking for recipies for skin lotions, lip balms, soaps, polishes and whatever stuff can be made from beeswax. Can anyone share some recipies or direct my to a site on the web? /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:01:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Recipies for use of beeswax In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: Mats Andersson > I am looking for recipies for skin lotions, lip balms, soaps, polishes > and whatever stuff can be made from beeswax. Can anyone share some > recipies or direct my to a site on the web? Elaine White is the great guru of such things: http://members.aol.com/oelaineo/formulas.html You can probably find more by googling her name + beeswax. Dave, AKA Pollinator :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:18:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Feeding heated honey back to the bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mats Andersson wrote: > Is there a problem with feeding this to the bee? http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/hmf.html Not recommended after heating so high. See the website for more info. I use my cappings honey for cooking even though all I use is an electric capping knife and no additional processing heat. There is a discernible difference in taste. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:42:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: Clean honey Hi Jim and Everyone, When I was a member of a large honey co-op, they had product liability insurance. But they also maintained a tracking record for every jar of honey packed. They could tell which producer's honey was in a specific jar. This co-op had it's own lab and tested all honey before accepting it. I know of several instances where both domestic and foriegn honey that was rejected by the co-op, was quickly snapped up by other packers without a question. Regards Dennis Knowing where the buck stops, at least for this co-op's jar of honey :>) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:59:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: August ABJ article In-Reply-To: <000801c47201$0778af60$25bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <000801c47201$0778af60$25bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres>, Bob Harrison writes >FORCING PACKERS TO BUY U.S. HONEY >TO SELL WITH THE *PRODUCT OF U.S. LABEL*. We must give the country of origin throughout the EU (or county or locality if in the UK) on our labels now over here - if we didn't already. Mine are named by the parish in which the apiaries are, with a picture which includes the parish church (or by the landmark itself: Godolphin Hill Honey has a digital picture of ... Godolphin Hill, on which I live and have 3 apiaries around), rather like the field number on German wine or the vineyard on the best French wine! These always appeal to the discerning local resident and the visitor who wants to take away a memento. -- James Kilty West Cornwall UK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 21:05:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Graham &/or Annie Law Subject: Research Project- Local honey as treatment for hay fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My wife Annie has been asked to assist in a research project being set = up in the English East Midlands UK (Leicester) to investigate the effects of = honey in the treatment of hay fever. Annie is a nurse lecturer and also a = capable beekeeper has been deemed the =91bee keeper=92 advisor to this research = group. =20 Here is the brief, any help would be gratefully received with perhaps pointers to existing research or relevant experts in this field. =20 Anne Law wrote......... RESEARCH INTO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF LOCAL HONEY AS A TREATMENT FOR = ALLERGIC RHINITIS (HAYFEVER) =20 Research team; Consultant physician specialising in allergies ENT Registrar Clinical Nurse specialist ENT Beekeeper as advisor =20 Background; The research team (excluding the beekeeper) treats patients with = allergic rhinitis, usually those people who have tried the treatments that can be purchased from a pharmacy with no success or those who have severe = symptoms. =20 They have experience from anecdotal patient reports that taking honey = every day from a local source has been effective in relieving their symptoms. =20 A search of the medical literature showed virtually no valid and = reliable research into this subject. =20 The team are developing a research protocol to submit to the local = ethics committee. =20 I (the beekeeper) was invited along to their first meeting as I was = known to keep bees locally to the research site. =20 Following initial discussions there were several questions raised which = I am investigating and it is with these I am asking for help from fellow beekeepers. =20 Questions; =95 Do honey bees collect pollen from grasses? =95 What would be a reasonable radius to take to guarantee = "local" honey =95 How can you get honey analysed for its pollen content - = place, cost, timescale etc? =95 Is there anyone else undertaking this type of research at present? =95 Has there been any research carried out in the past? =95 Are there any organisations that can be applied to for = funding for reserach of this type? =95 What would be the recommended "dose" of honey per day? =95 What could be used as a placebo =20 Many thanks Annie Law ................................................cut Graham & Annie Law Email: web.one@ntlworld.com Web: HYPERLINK "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gandboss"http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gandb= oss =20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.729 / Virus Database: 484 - Release Date: 27/07/2004 =20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:14:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Martin Subject: Re: At What Age do Bees Begin to forage? In-Reply-To: <200407280954.i6S9ZAEE022458@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to all, This discussion began with the comments on the failure of a particular queen cell. It led to the advancement of the theory that a factor in this problem was an inadequate supply of nurse bees. I will attempt to add a little to the subject. a. Bees do take flight outside the hive earlier then most of the literature states. Read about bees emerging and going straight to foraging (still looking for my reference to this) b. Scent factors cannot be ruled out when it comes to a bee finding "home". However this is cannot be stated as the only way they find "home". Otherwise drifting would be a bigger situation. All other discussion aside a shortage of nurse bees is a factor that could affect queen production. And this shortage could be a result of a nectar flow in combination with the age of the bees available to forage for nectar. It is a known observation that a nurse bee does not nurse a larva from egg to capping. This is done by different bees. What would happen if the next expected nurse bee instead went of to gather nectar? A paper titled "Regulation of honey bee division of labor by colony age demography" Huang and Robison, Published in 1996, addresses some of these questions. On Pages 154-155 changes in resource availability is addressed. This was first noted in 1937. This is called behavioral change and is not the same as behavioral development. This causes a young bee to forage during a honey flow. Particularly a happening when there is a shortage of older bees. Another paper (Fergusson and Winston 1988) noted behavioral change in colonies deprived of wax. This is attributed to increased forager activity among older bees transferring to the younger bees. This is just a sample of the information available on the subject. It all points to a possibility that queen cell failure during a honey flow could be attributed to a shortage of nurse bees. Thomas J. Martin Shippensburg, Pa :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:17:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Royal Jelly? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came in today and I am too lazy to write the guy an answer. It is actually a fair question. Any of you royal jelly producers out there care to tackle it? --- begin question --- I would like to know more about where the bees keep the royal jelly they feed the queen or is there any where to store it in the frame. So many products say it has royal jelly in it and I think there's no way to get it if it's not stored in hive. Thanks, don --- end question --- allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 01:04:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: ISBA Journal - Free download In-Reply-To: <200407260400.i6Q401Dq004383@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Indiana State Beekeepers celebrate the start of their 125th year! The newest edition of the ISBA Journal is available for free download from the page at http://hoosierbuzz.com/document/newsletters.html It's dated August 2004 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:44:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Research Project- Local honey as treatment for hay fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit **Good to see this is being tested. my answers are preceded by ** On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 21:05:36 +0100, Graham &/or Annie Law < gandboss@NTLWORLD.COM> wrote: >Questions; >• Do honey bees collect pollen from grasses? **Bees have seen collecting corn and rag weed pollen, both are wind pollen. I almost killed myself once (being highly allergic to rag weed pollen) by chewing a piece of comb honey with pollen. >• What would be a reasonable radius to take to guarantee "local" honey **I would say 50 miles are ok, plants do not change that much. >• How can you get honey analysed for its pollen content - place, >cost, timescale etc? **This is well established. basically dilute with water, centrifuge and count with hemocytometer. The main cost is labor. Need a hemocytometer, centrifuge and a microscope (40x subject, 10 x ocular). >• Is there anyone else undertaking this type of research at present? > >• Has there been any research carried out in the past? **I am not aware of any past of current research on this. Have heard it many times though. >• Are there any organisations that can be applied to for funding >for reserach of this type? **Apitherapy group? (www.apitherapy.org) >• What would be the recommended "dose" of honey per day? **I would say use whatever the folklore says. perhaps one teaspoon a day? >• What could be used as a placebo **Probably the best would be the same honey untralfiltered or simply fine filter with pressure (to remove pollen). It is important to have this study "double-blind". I.e. both the administrator (nurse?) and the eaters do not know which honey is filtered and which one has pollen (the filtered and unfiltered honey are coded and known by one person). Sample size must be large enough (100 patients in each group?), and be balanced with respect to age, gender, medical history etc. To be medically convincing, it will not be an easy study. Probably long term too (3 years?) since honey would not cure that fast. how do you gauge whether the hayfever is getting better or not? need good "assay"... Zachary Huang http://www.msu.edu/~bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:32:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: At What Age do Bees Begin to forage? I think in Allen's case the bees are on average >14 days old. Bees go through cell cleaning, nursing, then receiving nectar and comb builders (also the rare tasks of guarding and undertaking) and finally foraging. So the bees outside the broodnests are about 14 days old and are making honey (drying water, or putting nectar into honey supers) and orientation flights happened about 4-6 days, so these bees do know where their hive is. I recently shook some bees from a hive 6 ft away (on open brood, make sure no queen) to a weak hive and most young bees walked into the new hive, instead of returning to their original hive! This is just opposite to Allen's situation... of course queen breeders know about this and this is how a "starter" colony is made to rear the queen cells -- lots of young bees from different colonies would stay in a nuc in the same yard. Regarding job changes -- nurses cannot simply go forage, because there are many physiological changes involved (juvenile hormone titers are higher in foragers, food glands shrink, amines change, to name a few), so we call this big behavioral switch "behavioral development" (it is not like they can forage one day and then nurse next day -- the changes are not easy and this "reversion" only occur under special circumstances). As Tom mentioned, Robinson and I developed the "social inhibition" model to explain the regulation of foraging age -- basically the age of first foraging is flexible and is dependent on social conditions (colony age structure). You can put all newly emerged bees together with a queen and some workers will forager on day 5-7! if you add some old bees in the same type of colonies, the precocious foraging is inhibited, suggesting there is a chemical (or behavior) from foragers inhibition young bees from becoming foragers... There is a very recently paper (2004, Naturwissenschaften) by Tanya Pankiw (Texas A&M) showing that forager-extracts do delay other bees' foraging age, essentially confirming our 1992 hypothesis. Cheers, Zachary Huang http://www.msu.edu/~bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:49:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? There is no place to store royal jelly except in queen cells... Young workers are the live "storage" because they have the hypopharyngeal glands fully developed, also mandibular glands. The mixture of the two glandular secretions are royal jelly... they only secret the product when receiving the correct stimuli, i.e. queen larvae in cells. They also pass around some jelly for foragers, adult queen and drones -- this is only known recently. So to produce royal jelly, basically you create the same condition as queen rearing. Except you can graft a little larger larvae, wait for 3 days, and threw away the queen larvae and then scoop up the royal jelly. Zachary Huang www.msu.edu/~bees >I would like to know more about where the bees keep the royal jelly they >feed the queen or is there any where to store it in the frame. So many >products say it has royal jelly in it and I think there's no way to get it >if it's not stored in hive. > >Thanks, >don > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:38:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? In-Reply-To: <200407310249.i6V2ejmZ002318@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That seems like a very intensive process. How much royal jelly does a skilled producer get from a decent hive? Keith Zachary Huang wrote: > >So to produce royal jelly, basically you create the same condition as queen rearing. >Except you can graft a little larger larvae, wait for 3 days, and threw away the queen >larvae and then scoop up the royal jelly. > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? In-Reply-To: <200407310249.i6V2ejmZ002318@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zachary Huang wrote: > they only secret the product when receiving the correct stimuli, i.e. queen larvae in cells. > They also pass around some jelly for foragers, adult queen and drones -- this is only > known recently. The Hive and the Honey Bee states that royal jelly is fed to every worker larva for the first three days and to the queen larva continuously, so is this no longer true or are they wrong? \Also from HHB, it is produced in a queenless colony from artificial queen cells containing a 12-36 hour old larva which are discarded after three days and the jelly harvested with a wooden spoon or suction. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:03:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Zac, Thanks for the reply. > They also pass around some jelly for foragers, adult queen and > drones -- this is only known recently. Seems to me that the larvae all get the same diet for about three days immediately after hatching. Is this royal jelly? allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:23:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Research Project- Local honey as treatment for hay fever In-Reply-To: <200407310244.i6V2ejmN002318@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >• What could be used as a placebo If I understand well, and if one considere honey like a drug in pharmaceutical field, the martix of the drug is a mix of sugars (glucose, fructose, maltose, etc.)/water while the active ingredient is... anything else present in the honey. As far as I am aware of pharmaceutical standards, there are 2 kinds of placebo used : one kind to detect any analysis interference, and one kind for clinical study. The first type is exactly the drug (all ingredients kept in same proportions) but the drug substance (the active ingredient). The second type is the matrix (no active ingredient) but in proportions corrected to allow semi-large production (the pill's mass is kept constant). Namely, the proportion of inert ingredient of the matrice (often amidon) will be increased. Pharmaceutical good manufactring production (GMP) require you avoid any contamination of you matrice's ingedients with the active substance. So no contact are allowed. As an example, you have to weight the active ingerdient the last to avoid any contamination of previous ingredient by residus on instruments or in the air. In our case, that means, if I am correct, the placebo would be a mix... of pure sugars and water (now define what is the purity standard for your application !). I would not be comfortable with ultrafiltred honey because I am not shure every potential active substance (who kows ? organic acid, phenolic compounds, enzyme that react on fructose to produce H2O2, many possibilities) would be removed according to the purity standard, and anyway this matrice would have been in contact with active ingeredients. Bonne chance pour le financement ! Hervé Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ? Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:41:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: At What Age do Bees Begin to forage? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think in Allen's case the bees are on average >14 days old. Yes, I agree, but the ones of interest are any that are younger, and it seems to me that there must be some... a least a few. I originally titled this, "At What Age do Bees Begin to forage?", but maybe it should have been, "At What Age are Bees Able to Fly?". > orientation flights happened about 4-6 days, so > these bees do know where their hive is. > > I recently shook some bees from a hive 6 ft away (on open brood, make > sure no queen) to a weak hive and most young bees walked into > the new hive, instead of returning to their original hive! This is just > opposite to Allen's situation... of course queen breeders know about > this and this is how a "starter" colony is made to rear > the queen cells -- lots of young bees from different colonies would > stay in a nuc in the same yard. Yes, we use that technique, too, and there are a number of neat tricks one can do. We even discussed a device to use the effect on this list a few years back. Anyone recall? That is why what I reported seems to me to be an anomaly. The phenomenon I mention is only observed when there has been an uninterrupted heavy flow underway for a few days. I suspect that, in some areas of the continent, this phenomenon is seldom, if ever, seen, since abandonment does not work well except under specific conditions, and requires expert judgement. Moreover, those who promote and use repellents may never have an opportunity to observe it. Also, since what I report is an anomaly (heresy!?), and somewhat unique, I can also understand why some may rush to discount the reports and attempt to explain the observations away by applying dogma. Nonetheless, in removing hundreds of thousands of supers by abandonment over the past three decades, I have been puzzled by observing this on many occasions, and it seems to me that either the youngest, supposedly non-flying bees do not wander those few inches into the supers, or they have had a flight. The other possibilities, following scent, etc. are also possible and cannot be entirely discounted without proof, but do not fit my (somewhat casual) observations. I wonder -- and maybe Zach can help me with this, since it is right down his alley -- i.) How early after emerging bees physically can fly. I suspect this may depend on how well the larvae were fed, since I see some pretty weak looking baby bees in malnourished hives and ii.) How far from the brood baby bees wander, since the supers we set aside from abandoning were sometimes mere inches from brood, but separated from it by an excluder. iii.) Will baby bees go through an excluder? Maybe that explains everything. > Regarding job changes -- nurses cannot simply go forage, because > there are many physiological changes involved (juvenile hormone > titers are higher in foragers, food glands shrink, amines change, to > name a few), so we call this big behavioural switch "behavioural > development" (it is not like they can forage one day and then nurse > next day -- the changes are not easy and this "reversion" only > occur under special circumstances). If the bees do switch to foraging early in a heavy flow, perhaps that, along with the competition for cells from incoming nectar, helps explain the reduction in brood rearing and queen raising during a heavy flow. Thanks, all, for your input on this interesting question. A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 06:42:29 -0400 Reply-To: jkriebel@speakeasy.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jonathan Kriebel Organization: Veritec, Ltd Subject: Bees Foraging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Along the lines of foraging, I have read that bees are relatively late risers. Here, the last few days, I have been observing them working the Cleome in force. This is at 0530-0600. I put in several "beds" (2 x 40 metres) of Cleome, Lupine, Salvia and Larkspur (a partial list). I have noticed them avidly working the Cleome as early as 0530. In addition, I have noticed them actually crawling inside (forcing their way) into the salvia.=20 Another interesting observation is that there is definitely a differentiation between bees collecting Pollen, and those collection = nectar. For the last three days I have noticed that bees were hovering around = the Cleome, and 'touching down' on the long pistil of the flower. These had large amount of red Pollen in their baskets. (I was wondering where = they were getting the red stuff). I watched as yellow jackets (da bastads) deftly flew into the flower mass and went right for the nectar. The = bees however appeared to clumsily attempt to do this, and few succeeded. = This morning, I watched as some collected the pollen, whilst others went for = the nectar. The bees crawled throughout the flower mass/head and collected = the nectar from each blossom, as opposed to the crack headed yellow jackets which would get the nectar from one blossom, then fly to another head = for nectar. The Cleome secretes a droplet of nectar that appears to dry up by 1300, perhaps earlier if in direct sunlight. This morning I watch as a few = bees sparred over the "landing rights." I would imagine that the flow on = other pasturage is at low ebb, in preparation for the dearth before the = autumnal flow. I started keeping a ledger on the bee's activities, as to what = plants I observed them foraging on, at what time, for what material, = temperature, and time of day. I plan to add additional "beds" next year of the = specific flora that provide pasturage during the normal dearth period. I did quite a bit of research on the different honey plants that = appeared to be of value that would succeed here. I am always looking for more information, as the only real books I have come across are Pellet's and Lovell's. Pellet must have been a fascinating individual. I have = several of his texts, and not only are they well written, but very practical. = Of all of the texts on beekeeping I have found, "Productive Beekeeping" = which is one of Lippencott's Farm Manuals (copywrite 1916) was the most = complete, practical and informative that I have read. This includes Sammatro, = whose book was too general (IMHO). I hope this post fits the purpose of the = list. Jonathan B. Kriebel Das Sauen =D5hr Farm 3229 Zepp Rd. Green Lane, PA 18054-2357 Telephone: (610) 864-8581 Facsimile: (215) 234-8573 jbkriebel@speakeasy.net=20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:16:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? That is why they are so expensive -- RJ produced in France sell for 891 Euro per Kg, e.g. The ones sold in US are so cheap because they are all imported from China, I think. I cannot imagine anyone producing it locally here for $50 per Kg. Imported RJ in France sells for 89 Euro per Kg. You can put 60-100 cells per colony and one person can easily handle 6 colonies per day (harvesting and grafting). Average per cell is 25 mg (that is what I remember from experience in 1982 -- my memory might be innacurate). so you can produce 25mg x 60 x 6 = 1500 mg = 1.5 g per day! hmmm... That is not right. perhaps each cell yields 100 mg per day (same weight as a worker, that is probably the maximum)? even then it is only 36 grams... I think I need to charge $400 per lb if I produce it! Anyone wants to buy ? :) :) On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:38:15 -0400, Keith Benson wrote: >That seems like a very intensive process. How much royal jelly does a >skilled producer get from a decent hive? > >Keith > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:46:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? More correctly worker jelly. I think the food worker larvae receives the first 3 days are very similar to RJ, but the proportions of HPG and MG secretions are different. The jelly passed around to adults might be mostly HPG secretions (proteins). MG produces lipids. On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:03:08 -0400, allen dick wrote: >Hi Zac, > >Thanks for the reply. > >> They also pass around some jelly for foragers, adult queen and >> drones -- this is only known recently. > >Seems to me that the larvae all get the same diet for about three days >immediately after hatching. Is this royal jelly? > >allen >A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:28:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: preacher Subject: abandonment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello, Allen do you abandon your supers right at dusk and come back the next morning to pick them up or after dark. preacher :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:06:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: abandonment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Allen do you abandon your supers right at dusk and come back the next > morning to pick them up or after dark. Sometimes, but at other times, we pull them in the early morning and pick them up two hours later, or even pull them mid-day and pick them up a day or two later. We read the bees and the weather, and can usually judge how much we can get away with. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 10:14:17 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Royal Jelly? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That is why they are so expensive -- RJ produced in France sell for 891 Euro per Kg, > e.g. The ones sold in US are so cheap because they are all imported from China, I > think. I cannot imagine anyone producing it locally here for $50 per Kg. Imported RJ > in France sells for 89 Euro per Kg. When the chloramphenicol residue crisis was at its peak, I received several enquiries from European and Asian sources wanting to obtain royal jelly that was free from chloramphenicol. I said yes we could produce it as it dovetails in quite well with a queen rearing operation. I told them I would want about A$750 to A$1000 a kilo and they all said they were getting the Chinese for A$60- A$80 a kilo and I never heard from the enquirers again. Our A$750 to A$1000 a kilo would be about 435 to 580 Euro a kilo or US$240 to US$320 a pound. This is the price Australians used to get for royal jelly several years ago before the cheap Chinese came to the fore. I often wondered how serious they were about getting residue free royal jelly. I know that the Europeans wanted some because of the ban on Chinese honey, royal jelly etc. but I wonder if they suddenly obtained a good supply of royal jelly from a country like Singapore which, a couple of years back, suddenly had all that honey to export. Must have been a douzie of a crop that year. Also there must have been a massive increase in the numbers of beekeepers in Singapore. When the royal jelly is sold here there is usually more extender in the capsule than any royal jelly. Have a look at the ingredients and see. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 10:23:39 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: abandonment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sometimes, but at other times, we pull them in the early morning and pick > them up two hours later, or even pull them mid-day and pick them up a day or > two later. Here in Australia, abandonment is practiced in the far western country when beekeepers are working yapunyah. They usually lift the supers off in the morning and come back in the afternoon. Conditions have a lot to do with abandonment and, in our area, we cannot use the abandonment method because it would set up a big robbing problem. However, if robbing is a problem, you can lift the top super of honey off at dusk, leave a two inch gap in the lid and sit the super on its end on top of the lid. Bees will leave the super during the night and travel back into the hive via the two inch gap. You have to be at the hives before dawn next morning to pick up the supers and straighten up the lid before robbing starts. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::