From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:47:35 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C60D74904F for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlX012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0410B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 74706 Lines: 1698 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:14:16 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Small cells. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, The New Zealand publication is: Taylor, M. 2002. Varroa destructor not thwarted by smaller sized cells, study finds. The New Zealand Beekeeper 10, 10: 7-8. The first sentence in bold says " Smaller honeybee cells neither reduce the reproductive success or the amount of cells infested by the Varroa destructor mite, according to a New Zealand study", and the last sentence says " -these results suggest cells smaller than 5.4 mm may actually increase infestation". Briefly, 5 rectangular pieces of comb 5 cm x 8 cm with cells ranging in size from 4.7 mm to 5.4 mm were inserted into the same brood combs, and after three generations of brood were frozen and the number of infested cells and the number of adults and offspring per cell were counted. A total of 1,616 cells were assessed from 10 nucleus colonies, 2 frames per colony. Robert Dartington asked if the bees uncapped more infested cells of small size. The study doesn't address this point. Trevor Weatherhead is correct in that 4.7 and 4.8 mm foundation was inconsistently drawn out. However, the author says that "enough sections (of comb) with correctly shaped cells were obtained for trial usage". The author, Michelle Taylor, can be contacted at: HortResearch, Ruakura Research Centre, East Street, Private Bag 3123, Hamilton, New Zealand. I don't have Michelle's email address, but she works with Dr Mark Goodwin, MGoodwin@HortResearch.co.nz Regards, Barry Donovan, New Zealand. Visit our website at http://www.crop.cri.nz ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:37:18 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Bare foundation. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Waldemar's bees chewed down comb which contained pollen starting to go moldy, but I didn't see that in my hives. As far as I am aware, the combs only ever contained brood, and were always in the the brood nest. Scott Mc Pherson suggested that bees don't always accept plastic foundation such as Pierco, but the combs both Pierco and wax were fully drawn several years ago, and were used for rearing brood annually before patches were chewed bare, and all have always been in the brood nest. The hives face north, and the bare areas seem to be randomly distributed through the brood nest. I will take more note of this condition from now on. I just hope the condition doesn't worsen before the cause or a cure is discovered. Regards, Barry Donovan, New Zealand. Visit our website at http://www.crop.cri.nz ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:11:22 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Small cells. > Smaller honeybee cells neither reduce the reproductive > success or the amount of cells infested by the Varroa > destructor mite... Briefly, 5 rectangular pieces of comb > 5 cm x 8 cm with cells ranging in size from 4.7 mm to 5.4 mm > were inserted into the same brood combs If I were one of the people earnestly trying to convince others that "small cell is working for me", such a limited, contrived, and highly artificial study methodology would only add fuel to the long-smoldering resentment that "some scientists are determined to discredit and ignore small cell at all cost, for reasons unknown". The "fuel" would range from "gasoline" to "gunpowder". :) While the study appears to disprove the most commonly proffered explanation that the smaller cells themselves make reproduction more difficult for the mites, 5 sections of 5xm x 8cm would be less than 1% of the total comb surface area of a (roughly) 2800 square-inch brood chamber (2 USA deeps or 3 USA mediums, each holding 10 frames). > the author says that "enough sections (of comb) with correctly > shaped cells were obtained for trial usage". But fully-regressed colonies with 100% "regressed" brood comb are the only type of colony said to survive without varroa treatments. It is well-known that "partly-regressed" colonies cannot survive without treatment, and all "party-regressed" colonies are sure to have more than 1% of the total cells fall within "small cell" parameters. Heck, I'd bet that, if one measured each and every cell in a random colony, one could find 1% of ANY colony's cells fall within the definition of "small cells". Comb is anything but "perfect" and "consistent". As I mentioned before, IR-4 is accepting proposals for research grants on "biopesticides", and I assume that one could borrow, rent, or buy a dozen fully-regressed colonies, and simply keep them for a few years in a yard with varroa-infested colonies, doing regular mite drop counts, and not treating them with anything. This would be no more work than would be required to maintain a group of "control" colonies in any study of any varroa control approach. I'd apply for the grant and run the study myself, but I'm not sure that I would give much weight to yet another report from yet another beekeeper, no matter how well-documented. I'm not a card-carrying entomologist. jim (The fact that no one understands you doesn't make you an artist.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:09:37 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Bare foundation. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Barry & All, > Scott Mc Pherson suggested that bees don't always accept plastic > foundation such as Pierco, but the combs both Pierco and wax were fully > drawn several years ago, and were used for rearing brood annually before > patches were chewed bare, and all have always been in the brood nest. > The hives face north, and the bare areas seem to be randomly distributed > through the brood nest. > Are you certain that this is not mouse or rodent damage occurring. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 02:18:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Small cells. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/10/04 05:10:16 GMT Daylight Time, DonovanB@CROP.CRI.NZ writes: <> The only thing this study appears to test is whether varroa are less likely to enter and breed in smaller cell. It says nothing, as far as I can see, about what would happen in hives (rather than patches of comb) with different sized cells, or whether the brood raised in smaller cells has an equal chance of reaching adulthood and breeding successfully. Regards, Robert Brenchley :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:36:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Small cells. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Barry & All, > Briefly, 5 rectangular pieces of comb 5 cm x 8 cm with cells ranging in > size from 4.7 mm to 5.4 mm were inserted into the same brood combs, and > after three generations of brood were frozen and the number of infested > cells and the number of adults and offspring per cell were counted. > An example of one of those piece milled studies not using a fully regressed colony or colonies I had referred to in an earlier posting. A study such as the one described above can never be conclusive to how a fully regressed colony would deal with mites. So in essence the study proved or disproved nothing concerning bees that are kept totally on small cell combs. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:43:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: Linux From Scratch Subject: Re: Bare foundation. In-Reply-To: <200410110343.i9B3EblO002173@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sunday 10 October 2004 11:37 pm, Barry Donovan wrote: > The hives face north, and the bare areas seem to be randomly distributed > through the brood nest. I will take more note of this condition from now > on. I just hope the condition doesn't worsen before the cause or a cure > is discovered. Because of the random distribution I am going to guess its wax moth. If you see newborn bees stuck in their cells, and/or you see bees with malformed chewed or glued wings and/or bees wandering around while trying to get their caccoon off of themselves, that this would further indicate a moth problem. It is a moth problem the bees might already have handled or are handling and you see that evidence because of the chewed comb. You should see the above additional things if the bees are still coping with it, you should see very few if they already have. The comb can sometimes remain bare for a while until the bees need the brood space again. -- Scot Mc Pherson scot@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/~scot http://beewiki.linuxfromscratch.org AIM: ScotLFS ICQ: 342949 MSN:behomet@earthlink.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:56:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Harold M. Liberman" Subject: Re: Bare foundation. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good remedy for bare spots on wax coated foundation is to take a razor blade and cut and peel off the exposed plastic. A good strong colony will draw out the place where the plastic has been removed. Liberman Bishop, Georgia :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:07:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Brumfield Subject: Beekeeping supplies in south carolina Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Anyone know of any beekeeping supplies in south carolina near myrtle beach? This could be in southern north carolina as well. Will be in myrtle beach in a couple weeks. Thanks Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:08:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: Small cells. Hi Guys, At the time those studies were done, most of the speculation concerning the success seen in small cell hives focused on mite reproduction. When I removed worker pupa that had been uncapped at the purple eye stage, I found very few immatures or males. Mostly just one mature female would be found. What I saw seemed to collaborate with the speculation about cell size directly affecting varroa reproduction rates. But another, more plausable explanation, is possible. I think when the bees uncap/remove infected brood, and destroy the mites, it's very disruptive to mite reproduction. Uncapped pupa remain alive for extended periods before the bees remove them. Maybe the mites hide out toward the bottom of an uncapped cell rather than reproduce:>) I had planned to chronologically compare mite reproductive biology and see what kind of damage would occur when cells are uncapped at the purple eye stage, but haven't got around to it. Cell size directly affects the bees behavior instead of directly affecting mite reproduction. It appears the NZ test was designed to measure the direct effects of cell size on mite reproduction. The government was in a hurry to get some fast answers for their impending mite problems which explains the short duration. It's too bad the NZ government took the speculation as the only possible explaination. It would have been better to not speculate in this case, as the test might have been broader in scope and of a longer duration. It's not a bad test for a direct correlation between cell size and varroa reproduction. And the NZ test along with some of the other research should end the cell size/varroa reproduction speculation as the reason for small cell size mite tolerance. Regards Dennis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:53:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Small cells. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Harrison" To: Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Small cells. > It is my hypothesis that high desert temperatures and lack of water for > evaporation provide a form of natural varroa control at a time of year > when > varroa population would normally be on the rise. > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- Bob, Then why doesn't someone place a few standard size cell hives along side the small cell ones? And place a few small cell hives alongside the more standard size in a different climate? Seems the results would be quite telling , I think there are some fairly simple experiments that could be run that would answer some of these questions? Isn't a big part of the problem initiative and action? Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:22:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Small cells. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/10/04 00:57:34 GMT Daylight Time, topbarguy@HOTMAIL.COM writes: <> Not necessarily. It shows that varroa will enter maller cells as willingly as larger, but it doesn't show, as far as I'm aware, that viable adults will emerge from those cells in the same proportion. If, for instance, there was something in the idea that small cell bees emerge earlier than large, this would affect varroa reproduction, and wouldn't show up in the results. I'm not convinced that this is happening, but it has been claimed, and should have been tested for. Regards, Robert Brenchley :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:14:29 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Massimiliano Subject: video concerning the natural mating of a queen bee with drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear friends, I have need a little help. The Italian Association of Professional Beekeepers is searching a video concerning the natural mating of a queen bee with drones. We think that the video was filmed in Germany, but we are not sure. If is there anibody that know were this video is available? Thanking in advance, Ciao Massimiliano :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:46:43 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Yet Another New Sweetene/thixotropic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anthony Morgan and Dave Cushman wondered about using vibration to loosen thixotropic honey. I have just started to extract this year's minuscule heather crop, so I decided to try out the vibration idea - I too have often thought of trying it - but have never got a round tuit! I used a vibratory massager (Carmen Bodyheat 50hz) on a frame for 1 minute. It made not the slightest difference! I then put it in my radial extractor and not one drop of honey was extracted. I concluded that the massager would be better employed in relieving the aches and pains associated with beekeeping. I suspect that ultrasonic vibration would be effective, but do not have the equipment to hand to try it out. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:19:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Yet Another New Sweetene/thixotropic In-Reply-To: <008301c4b08b$d2e54500$a48187d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > I used a vibratory massager (Carmen Bodyheat 50hz) on > a frame for 1 minute. It made not the slightest > difference! I then put it in my radial extractor > and not one drop of honey was extracted. I suspect that the vigour and excursion of the vibration was not strong enough by an order of magnitude or more. Before writing it off as 'not working' or increasing the frequency, I would investigate a higher power. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:43:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Suzanne Geisler Subject: Re: video concerning the natural mating of a queen bee with drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a video called "Tales from the Hive" produced by NOVA and WGBH Boston. Here is a link: http://shop.wgbh.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=11051&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&pageSize=20&searchText=tales+from+the+hive If the link doesn't work, just google WGBH then go to the store and search for the Tales from the hive. It was a program on NOVA. You could also go to the NOVA website and read how they filmed the program. I had my local library order it. Suzanne Geisler Springboro OH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Massimiliano" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: [BEE-L] video concerning the natural mating of a queen bee with drones > Dear friends, > I have need a little help. > The Italian Association of Professional Beekeepers is searching > a video concerning the natural mating of a queen bee with drones. > We think that the video was filmed in Germany, but we are not sure. > If is there anibody that know were this video is available? > Thanking in advance, > Ciao Massimiliano > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:56:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Outdoor temperatures for mating. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At this time of the year - mid-October - the temperatures here on Long Island are in the high 60's F and low 70's F. Last weekend I found one of my hives with an unmarked queen and no eggs. I also saw a number of torn down queen cells. Since I mark all my queens, this is a virgin queen. I have heard different opinions about what temperatures are needed for for a virgin to go out on mating flights. Are low 70's high enough or is this virgin doomed? I still see drones in my hives. Thank you! Waldemar PS. I have a spare laying queen in a nuc I was planning to overwinter per Mike Palmer's procedure but this virgin looked so big and strong it would be great to have her head up that colony. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:17:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leigh Hauter Subject: bear or human Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Over the weekend something happened to 6 of ten hives we have back in the woods near our farm. We live in a place where bears seldom frequent and usually only then in the spring. The last bear damage to beehives was 6 years ago. Over the weekend this row of hives was visited and someone/thing knocked over 6 of them. I would have thought a bear, however, except for the hives getting a good shove and turning them over, no other damage. The frames weren't damaged, though some of them had come out of their box. Would a bear just turn over hives without sampling the contents? I can't think of a human, though, who would come back this far just to vandalize some hives. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:55:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Timothy Eisele Subject: Re: Outdoor temperatures for mating. In-Reply-To: <20041013.095730.26937.38994@webmail29.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, waldig@netzero.com wrote: > I have heard different opinions about what temperatures are needed for > for a virgin to go out on mating flights. Are low 70's high enough or > is this virgin doomed? I still see drones in my hives. > Man, I *hope* that low 70s is warm enough, otherwise I'll have to give up on the whole idea of ever raising my own queens. Except for about three weeks in July/August, that's about as warm as it ever *gets* around here. At least one beekeeper in this area raises her own queens, and doesn't seem to have any particular trouble, so I'd say that low 70s is adequate, at least for the bees that are moderately adapted to chilly weather. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:01:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Outdoor temperatures for mating. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:55 PM 10/13/2004, you wrote: >On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, waldig@netzero.com wrote: > Are low 70's high enough or > > is this virgin doomed? The references I've found say 68 or 69 degrees minimum. It seems to correspond with my experience, at least as a rule of thumb. Of course wind and rain can keep them from flying as well. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:25:57 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: waldig@netzero.com In-Reply-To: <20041013.095730.26937.38994@webmail29.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <20041013.095730.26937.38994@webmail29.nyc.untd.com>, waldig@netzero.com writes >Are low 70's high enough or is this virgin >doomed? I still see drones in my hives. We rarely have these temperatures in our May swarming time, when I rear most of my queens. Certainly not in our autumn supersedure time. If you have drones and they fly, I think your queen will be good. Unfortunately, we have had intermittent weather in the last month and 4 nice nucs, packed with bees, show no laying 5 weeks and more after hatching. I squished one today before adding the bees to a weaker nuc before uniting them to a colony with an inferior queen when I am ready. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:36:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: bear or human In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-49DFFE8; boundary="=======293A3974=======" --=======293A3974======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-49DFFE8; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Would a bear just turn over hives without sampling the >contents? Leigh Yes, they do. Bears tip over colonies to find the punks...colonies that won't protect themselves. These get eaten first. The defensive colonies get rolled around and demoralized until they too give up. Mike --=======293A3974=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:42:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: josh jaros Subject: Re: bear or human In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Leigh, I've seen bears do that a lot of times. They'll knock down the hives and then come back later to feast. I suspect they are able to weaken the hives substantially or at least separate the bees from their stores as they will leave the honey to protect the brood, although bears love brood as well. Josh Jaros --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:53:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Kansas Honey producers Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I will be a speaker at the Kansas Honey Producers meeting this Friday & Saturday(Oct. 15th & 16th) in Dodge City, Kansas at the Dodge House Hotel & convention center. Plenty of room for last minute attendees! There will be a chuck wagon dinner & Wild West Show Friday night. Not sure if tickets still available. Lot's of wild west history in Dodge City! Gary Reynolds (commercial beekeeper & former researcher at Baton Rouge with Steve Tabor in the 60's) will speak on Russian bees and the grant he has received to do Russian bee research. I will be speaking on Russian bees and bees which will tolerate varroa after my friend Gary. Dr. Larry Conner ( Bee Culture columnist) will speak on several subjects. I met several members of BEE-L the last time I attended a Kansas meeting. Please introduce yourself! Lurkers included! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:51:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: North Dakota Has A Situation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FYI to BEE-L, Several friends who are with the North Carolina Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services forwarded the two emails below, the first (10-7-2004) is asking for advice from Andrew A. Thostenson of the NDSU Extension Pesticide Program and the second is a press release from the North Dakota Department of Agriculture (10-13-2004). It is the opinion of this writer that this is the most severe misuse of pesticides that I have ever seen in association with beekeeping and beekeepers. The potential problems could be of severe consequences to our industry. I have heard of and have seen the use of "Corral" and "Taktic" but sodium cyanide, water, and sulfuric acid in a witches brew gives me the shivers and is surely a hot potato for the press. Forget chloramphenicol and nitrofurans for now and put them on the back burner, this could really hurt our industry. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Okay folks--North Dakota Needs Some Advice We have a Situation Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:45:20 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Thostenson" Reply-To: Andrew.Thostenson@ndsu.nodak.edu Organization: NDSU Extension Pesticide Program To: AAPSE@LISTSERV.VT.EDU This past Friday, the North Dakota Department of Agriculture uncovered an illegal pesticide use in a large bee keeping operation. They were using a witches brew of sodium cyanide, water, and sulfuric acid to fumigate bee hives for parasitic mites, parasitic moths and, and stray bees. So many rules and regulations have been violated that it is really hard to know where this thing will end up. As we sit here today, we have a 30 gallon drum of sodium cyanide un-accounted for and officials believe that it was lost along 100 mile stretch of state highway. Yesterday, the Sheriff and NDDA went public in an effort to appeal for help in recovering the keg and in order to warn people who might come across this stuff. (BTW, the fall bird season opens this Saturday in ND.) The homeland security and FBI folks are in on this and they are not amused. It made the front pages in one of the major papers and the television people just left my office a few moments ago. This is a serious incident and one of my fears is that people will believe that their honey is no longer safe too eat. Quite frankly, after visiting with my wife last night, I simply do not have enough answers to be able to talk intelligently about the risks to the food supply. So, we are not eating honey in our home until we do. North Dakota is the #1 honey producing state in the nation and we sell about 40 million pounds a year. I am looking for ideas or references regarding cyanide and food residues. Also, if you or your state has experiences with this particular illegal use we would sure like to here about it. Apparently the bee keepers don’t take this too seriously as they say “everybody does it” and they are naming names and suppliers. Further they claim, “they do this all the time in Texas and it is perfectly legal.” Of course, this is not at all true. However, we’ve got a situation up here and so I am looking for some sound advice, experience, and some facts. Cheers, Andrew *************************************************************** Andrew A. Thostenson, Pesticide Program Specialist North Dakota State University Extension Service 166 Loftsgard Hall, P.O. Box 5051 Fargo, North Dakota 58105-5051 USA Telephone: 701.231.7180, Fax: 701.231.5907 E-mail: Andrew.Thostenson@ndsu.nodak.edu Web: http://ndsupesticide.org *************************************************************** THE Official PRESS RELEASE from North Dakota Department of Agriculture: ND Department of Agriculture Press Releases FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE OCTOBER 13, 2004 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- COOPERATION RESULTED IN RECOVERY OF CYANIDE BISMARCK – Following the recovery of a container of deadly sodium cyanide, authorities are continuing their investigation into the shipment and probable illegal use of chemical in North Dakota. “Finding that barrel was obviously the number one priority,” said Agriculture Commissioner Roger Johnson. “Now that it is in safe hands, it is time to find out how and why it got here in the first place.” The 110-pound container of Cyanobrik® was found late Wednesday, deep in some cattails in a ditch along N.D. Highway 1, three miles south of Brocket. It had been reported missing Sept. 30, when it fell off a truck. Two other drums that had fallen off the truck had been found earlier. “Ramsey County Sheriff Steve Nelson and his department did an outstanding job in leading the search for that container,” Johnson said. “Thanks to them and to the cooperation of many agencies, a potential tragedy was avoided.” North Dakota Department of Agriculture (NDDA) pesticide personnel Jim Gray, Doug Johnston, Ken MacDonald and Julie Tronson, and Duane Mills, Memphis, TN, a representative of DuPont, manufacturer of the chemical, also took part in the search. It was Mills who actually found the keg about 6:30 p.m. Searchers covered more than 20 miles on foot and on all-terrain vehicles Wednesday, looking for the container. Agencies involved included the Devils Lakes Fire Department and Rural Fire Department, Ramsey County Emergency Management, the Nelson County Sheriff’s Office, Lakota Fire Department, North Dakota State Health Department, the State Department of Emergency Management, the North Dakota Department of Transportation, the Highway Patrol, the State Crime Laboratory and the Bureau of Criminal Investigation, as well as Ramsay County authorities. The case initially drew the attention of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, but after it was learned that the chemical was intended for beekeeping, it became an agricultural regulatory matter and NDDA took the lead role. Johnson said that some North Dakota beekeepers have apparently been using sodium cyanide to fumigate their hives before transporting them to other states. “Such use has long been illegal and must stop,” Johnson said. “We intend to find out how and where the chemical was obtained and who has been using it. We will then take the proper administrative action at the conclusion of our investigation, which will likely take months to complete.” Since the incident was first reported, NDDA investigators have located 18 containers of sodium cyanide at five locations in North Dakota. All have been tagged with stop-sale orders. All have been traced to the same dealer and represent the dealer’s entire sales of the chemical this year. Sodium cyanide is used in extracting precious metals, case-hardening steel and electroplating. It has no registered agricultural use. Johnson said that there is no evidence that honey is not safe to eat. It is believed that the cyanide gas is used to disinfect the hives after the honey is removed. Such use poses no risk to honey consumers, but could possibly endanger the persons handling the cyanide or the environment. -30- MEDIA: For more information, please call Roger Johnson at (701) 328-4754. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:43:33 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: [BEE-L] Small hive beetle found in europe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just heard through a friend, who got the information through Austrian scientist. I think this is true, but would like to hear more directly to belive it to be 100 % sure. But most likely this is. Small hive beetle was found in Portugal 7th of October 2004. The beetle was in hives that had bees illeagally imported from USA. The hives have been destroyed + the surrounding area desinfected. The local officials think that beetles did not have time to spread around, but that remains to be seen. Ari Seppälä Finland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:58:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Outdoor temperatures for mating. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Waldemar wondering if it was warm enough for his queen to mate wrote: >temperatures here on Long Island are in the high 60's F and low 70's F One respected authority writes: “The *desirable* weather conditions for mating include temperature above 20 degrees C.” [my italics] Timothy Eisele and James Kilty both mentioned successful queen rearing in less than *desirable* temperatures. Summer temperatures here in the Anchorage area are also frequently (or is it usually?) less than what one would hope for. Still, our bees sometimes get ahead of us by swarming and raising viable queens. See this too: http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/avm.html Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:31:28 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dieter_Sch=FCrer?= Subject: Small hive beetle found in europe In-Reply-To: <000d01c4b1b0$bf1b14c0$df08a5c3@pomi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got the same confirmation from the person responsible for such information in Germany. So this is definitively true. After the experiences in USA and Australia, I do not believe that the beetle could be killed before spreading. I doubt whether the beekeeper found out fast enough (he hardly has informed authorities of his illegal import). So I believe that he only acted after having seen his hive infested and then the larvae are already out. If on reads the reports that the larvae wander up to 200 m until the dig into ground, I cannot trust all beetle larvae have been distroyed. dieter schuerer, Switzerland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:33:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Outdoor temperatures for mating. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20041013155758.054de9f0@pop3.wcoil.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all > The references I've found say 68 or 69 degrees > minimum. With respect these temperatures refer to the formation of drone assemblies (drone congregation areas) and are not relevant to whether mating is possible or not (the original question). Drone assembly occurs in major and minor forms and is the mechanism used when conditions allow, however much late supercedure mating occurs by the mechanism of Apiary Vicinity Mating (AVM) rather than DCA. In UK our late supercedure queens get mated in temperatures much lower than quoted (I do not know any precise limits) but it can certainly happen at 10 deg C (50 deg F). However there are big differences between UK and US bee stock genetics. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:38:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: bear or human In-Reply-To: <20041014004245.59599.qmail@web60008.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-6C81894; boundary="=======5462104E=======" --=======5462104E======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-6C81894; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > although bears love brood as well. I've often wondered...do bears like brood or honey the most? I know Winnie The Pooh loves honey more than anything, but from a human viewpoint...which could you eat more easily...a pound of honey or a pound of steak? I would choose the steak, but I'm only human. Mike --=======5462104E=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:50:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: North Dakota Has A Situation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Before this gets blown out of porportion I will shed some light. In the 50's & 60's the *conconction* talked about was used to fumigate supers in storage. The method was even used to store supers in the USDA bee labs (bet Johnson would not like the fact getting into his press release!) The *conconction* is not used in a live bee hive as will kill all the bees. Is not used to control varroa. The *conconction* pulls all the oxygen out of the air killing all insects in the storage area. Although *as Johnson pointed out* not a registered for use on stored combs moth control I will be surprised if any contaimination of comb or honey is found but could be wrong. I have never used the method myself but know of its use. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:34:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: bear or human In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041014063350.00b93a08@pop.together.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Mike Palmer wondered: >I've often wondered...do bears like brood or honey the most? I know Winnie >The Pooh loves honey more than anything, but from a human viewpoint...which >could you eat more easily...a pound of honey or a pound of steak? I would >choose the steak, but I'm only human. A great many times I saw the brood scooped out of a frame and surrounding honey left alone. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm ************************************************************* * The most formidable weapon against errors of any kind * is reason. * Thomas Paine, 1794 ************************************************************* :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:46:54 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: bear or human How about "none of the above"? Horses, cows, and deer can rub up against hives, using them as scratching posts, and knocking the hives over. The dead give-away would be small amounts of hair caught in joints and under nails at the corners of the hive bodies, but I'm surprised that no herbivore spoor or tracks were found near the hives. Herbivores trend to trample the grass. I agree that it would be rare for a bear to neatly tip over 6 hives, damaging nothing in each case. Most bear would at least leave a few claw scratches on the pushed surfaces, if not grab some sort of snack. The unique thing about humans is that they tend to be consistent, pushing over ALL the hives in the yard, and pushing them in the same direction, as they would push and then run away to the same place a "safe distance away" each time. They also tend to only attempt such shenanigans on nights that are moonlit. Last weekend, the moon was a mere sliver. Unless the hives were clearly visible from a road, humans would be a long shot in my view. Mike Palmer's bears in VT might have different tastes than our bears in VA, mostly due to the better class of garbage put out by all those rich city folk that moved to VT, but one can often find the odd frame of honey left untouched by a bear, while one will never find any untouched brood frames. The focus on "Hunny" was nothing but the work of a good PR guy. Winnie The Pooh would have been a far less sympathetic character if he was revealed to like to eat wiggly, squishy, squirmy larvae. jim (Side effects may include loss of hair, loss of keys, asphyxia, dyslexia, anorexia, osteoporosis, anaphylaxis, acariasis...) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:39:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: waldig@netzero.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Waldemar asked: > Are low 70's high enough or is this virgin > doomed? Well, 70s (21C) is warm enough for the queen to get mated, but I'm not sure that is the question you should be asking. Assume the (no longer) virgin DOES get well mated. What you really should be asking is, "In mid-October, will a well mated supersedure queen be able to raise enough over-wintering bees for a colony of honey bees to successfully over winter." In my neck of the woods (upstate New York about 130 miles (210km) north of Long Island I would bet not. It depends on the number of young bees already in the hive, existing stores, and how severe will be the winter of 04-05. In these parts, brood rearing is definite wending down, with at most 2 more brood cycles to come (more likely only one). And that's from an established queen. I would not rely on a supersedure queen at this time of year in my locale. Granted, Long Island winters are less severe than Round Lake winters, I am not as moderated by the Atlantic ocean. But I don't think the difference is all that much. If I had a hive with a supersedure queen (well mated or not) at this time of year in upstate New York (Round Lake) vs. downstate New York (Long Island), I'd be looking for a hive with which to unite the superseded hive. Aaron Morris - thinking take your losses in the fall! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:45:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: deealusby1@AOL.COM Subject: Bismarcktribune Article on N. Dakota Hive Treatments Comments: To: Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: Here is a copy of the press release to read on this subject matter in N. Dakota. _http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2004/10/14/news/state/sta01.txt_ (http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2004/10/14/news/state/sta01.txt) Regards, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Tucson, Arizona _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:49:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: deealusby1@AOL.COM Subject: Another press release on N. Dakota incident. Comments: To: Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: Here is another site to read more information at: _http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2004/10/08/news/state/sta02.txt_ (http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2004/10/08/news/state/sta02.txt) Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Tucson, Arizona _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:12:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: waldig@netzero.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 14/10/04 18:33:18 GMT Daylight Time, AMorris@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU writes: <> Are you talking about the raising of a new queen after the loss of the old, or queenright supersedure? If the latter, the old queen will still be present and laying, and there shouldn't be a problem with the supply of young bees. Regards, Robert Brenchley :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:16:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: North Dakota Has A Situation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Before this gets blown out of porportion I will shed some light. > In the 50's & 60's the *conconction* talked about was used to fumigate > supers in storage. I don't know about sodium cyanide, but calcium cyanide, brand name 'Cyanogas', was routinely used by beekeepers for many years to kill colonies of bees at the end of the season, without any incident I ever heard of. Cyanogas, calcium cyanide, is a grey granule, and beekeepers handled it without a lot of concern. Some beekeepers killed hundreds of colonies in a day or two, using it. In Western Canada, everyone had some, and I think I just threw out the last of what I had very recently. The method was to spread a spoonful inside the entrance and walk away. After moisture from the air came into contact with the grey dust, the gas came off, killed the bees, then dissipated. Everyone tried to avoid the gas, but nobody worried about the residue left on the floorboard afterwards, and I gather it was harmless. Sometimes it got onto the brood frames or the warehouse floor. No one used any protection other than a veil and bee gloves, and, although a few who were careless got a bit groggy now and then, no permanent harm seems to have come of it. AFAIK, either cyanide kills you or it doesn't. No residues stay in the body if you survive. Although cyanogas is illegal for Alberta beekeepers since 1987, and everyone has lost interest anyways, I gather Cyanogas is still around. See http://www.google.com/search?hl=&cat=&meta=&q=Cyanogas AFAIK, the outlawing of Cyanogas had little to do with food safety. The concern was operator, transport, and storage safety and security. The Wild West is not as wild as it used to be. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honey beeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:38:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Outdoor temperatures for mating MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Brown has observed mating at 64F. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:46:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: deealusby1@AOL.COM Subject: North Dakota Has A Situation Comments: To: Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: The method was to spread a spoonful inside the entrance and walk away. After moisture from the air came into contact with the grey dust, the gas came off, killed the bees, then dissipated. Bob Harrison wrote: In the 50's & 60's the *conconction* talked about was used to fumigate supers in storage. The *conconction* is not used in a live bee hive as will kill all the bees. Is not used to control varroa. Andrew A. Thostenson in copy sent to BEE-L by Chuck Norton wrote: This past Friday, the North Dakota Department of Agriculture uncovered an illegal pesticide use in a large bee keeping operation. They were using a witches brew of sodium cyanide, water, and sulfuric acid to fumigate bee hives for parasitic mites, parasitic moths and, and stray bees. Reply: So no explain to me how this is the same procedure.Allen Dick sir, did you mix sulfuric acid to your stuff? Bob Harrison sir, it says they were using all three and for parasitic mites, moths and bees. So question coming to mind: ASSUMING the bigger beekeepers are into treatments for various parasitic mite and moth and bee problems, and normally are ahead in timing for what to do in beekeeping, of the main pack of beekeepers, so to speak, for going to the next step in what works......then is this saying oxalic acid and formic acid ( not that some of this could or may be called termite fumigation) were found somehow to be failing somewhat like has been mentioned in the EU in rumor, and they went to a higher level for control, while us/the poor unlearned in the main pack, now are supposed to meekly follow.............. So bluntly then , what is coumaphos, fluvalenate, oxalic acid, formic acid, thymol even, then, to some of these types of beekeepers using this stuff??? I would say NO GOOD. And I/we of course, using nothing but small cell must have them rolling on the floor. Now just how are we going to feed the USA if these beekeepers fail in their outfits; how are they going to turn around to get off this dangerous treadmill? If this is the group I think it is. Makes me wonder about the future of the NHB, the ABF, the AHPA and of course our cheap importing packers...................................Sad......and yet look at how Rome fell in the end...............................................No nation stand long that cannot feed itself from within. Respectfully Submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Tucson, Arizona _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:49:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: bear or human MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Michael Palmer" > I've often wondered...do bears like brood or honey the most? I know Winnie During early spring bears will take down brood & ignore honey as their digestive tracts aren't yet able to take down sugars. By fall they'll certainly dine on both brood & honey. I've never seen a hive scavenged for one & not the other during fall, so 'preference' is likely which end of the hive they start in on. Most beehive-bear-vandilism will occur during late fall (Sept-Oct). If a bear hits your hives, you have good odds it'll be back the very next night & likely between dusk to ~2am. This is information I've gleaned by unfortunate personal experience and rubbing elbows with our Div. of Wildlife during a study we shared with a dozen of my hives a few years ago. Bears are predictible in the information above & unpredictable with everything else (approach, size, appetite, etc.). Could be an immature bear that tipped your hives & couldn't stand the stings before he ate something. They're smart animals & shouldn't be underestimated in protecting your hives. The surest prevention is a bullet as far as I'm conerned, having lost 56 hives during one 3-day snowstorm years ago to a 400+ lb. bear whom ate a few & tipped the remainder. I won't hesitate if I find one has tresspassed my fences. That said, I do the best job I know to keep my fences prepared/monitored so it doesn't come to a showdown with some deviant bear. To answer your question on 'vandals or bear' -- Were the hives all tipped toward the same direction? Were ANY frames pulled from the hives? Were the hives tipped away from the safest 'human' route for escape (i.e. away from trees/shade/bushes)? Look for signs. Human vandals can be predictable too. They'll take the shortest route to escape from stings & usually push the hives away from their safety, away from the direction of their home, & likely all in one direction. Not many vandals would 'circle' an apiary to knock them over from different angles. Change your mindset & look at it from a coward's point of veiw & you might find your answers. check the grass for repeated steps by bent/pressed grass. People vandalizing will take the same path to & from their target. How would you prevent additional damage? Place the hives in plain veiw & notify neighbors to watch for vandals. A few quarts of honey does wonders for 'sentry pay'. Set out noticeable barbed wire with secure posts to ensure there is NO safe exit for someone running back & forth while tresspassing/vandalizing. You have to remember that vandals likely won't be wearing bee suits. ---- Or simply pick up your stakes & move them. Matthew Westall - E-Bees - Castle Rock, CO -where we had the best year perhaps 'ever' in Southern Colorado for '04 - making up for several years of drought '00-02. Many gave up more than 300 lbs. Another beekeeper saw a fresh super filled (uncapped) in a single day, with a witness in tow. Unheard of for Colorado. We love you Knapweed! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::