From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:48:44 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5204905A for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlb012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0410E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 96870 Lines: 2168 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:17:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations In-Reply-To: <000a01c4bbf4$e84b9ba0$2cb85ad1@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick relating to asked the following regarding winter prepared colonies. Out of curiosity, what was your cutoff weight? We found about 90 lbs, > including floor and lid was the lower end. 80 to 90 pounds for singles and 140 lbs. for doubles. Due to the prolonged canola flow - till the end if Sept, this honey was placed in the brood box to some extent. Too much for my liking in some cases. This allows for the situation to occur where weight is there - but not the right food for over wintering. How does one control this? - remove and substitute with empty frames before feeding. That will result in a lot of stored honey frames as the contents are well crystallized (if this year is anything to go by) - especially when dealing with double brood boxed colonies. Peter. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:37:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations In-Reply-To: <30.641a6eb1.2eb1760f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade asked why I was reluctant to enter a brood box at this time of the year to dispatch a queen. Several reasons: General advice suggests that entering a box after wintering preps. have taken place seems to reduce the chance of survival over the long winter period, when bees may find it impossible to have any flight time (from Nov. till mid April). Looking for a queen on combs that are fairly well propolised is asking for a crushing experience - I might manage to kill the required queen, then accidentally dispatch the second one as well. Combs are not even in their surface, filled with honey, syrup. Pulling them out will roll lots of bees - valuable winter stock. Chilling of brood box contents. Possible balling of queen. Agree or disagree with the above! - unless forced to, I leave the brood box to itself. From where Chris is situated, I know that it is possible to enter and still have the weather allowing bees to recover from such a procedure. Here - minus temps. for a few days, back up to 10 plus, then back to flurries. We are just about to enter the arctic fridge. Living here in winter is like sitting in a freezer with the light on!!!! I have made lots of mistakes this season, learnt a lot, hope to might fewer next. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:22:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: overwintering nucs In-Reply-To: <008801c4bd35$2a941280$b2e9d518@newdell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd mentioned heat transfer from a colony underneath another colony. This evening, 9.30pm approx. I walked by some of the colonies that had not taken up their feed - waiting with the rest to be moved into the wintering house once the weather "cools". These colonies are the ten that I mentioned in an earlier mail. This morning, loss for loss sake - I placed a 3 gallon feeder back on these colonies and put on 2 gallons of HFCS. My reasoning was - the weather is mild, see what happens. This evening the hives were roaring, bees ventilating at the reduced entrances. Putting my finger into the syrup - it was relatively warm (compared to the exterior temp. of 11 degrees Celsius. When the temp. of the syrup was taken it read: 18, 18.6, 21, 19.2 degrees. Those still not taking had a feeder containing syrup at around 12 degrees. Heat transfer (loss) does definitely take place! Understood that the bees in the feeding colonies had increased their metabolic rate to deal with the sugar syrup. Shall be interested to see what happens to these colonies over the winter - and more so in the spring if they make it. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:55:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041027174034.00c25950@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for to all, for all the comments on weak stock and wintering! One thing that cropped up is that individuals mention about placing colonies on top of others - for heat support etc. Omitted is what is the piled box configuration! So how are the piled colonies separated from each other? With inner covers only, queen excludes - or any other permutation? For good heat transfer from bottom unit to supported top unit: I presume that the bottom one has its lid removed, inner cover only in place, with the upper unit having its floor in place. I should put my mind to an intermediate screen of some sort allowing better heat transfer to take place. Then investigate. The above comment made realising that cold does not kill bees unless allied with lack of food, and that higher winter temps. result in faster rates of reserve consumption. And I do not wish to have a constant supply of weak colonies to test! Conclusion: Successful wintering here abouts comes down to adequate food, well prepared with a good number of healthy winter bees. Thanks again, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:32:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: overwintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Moreover, bees will tend to drift up to the top hive in spring, > sometimes depleting it somewhat. Golly! I am writing badly today. I meant depleting the _bottom_ hive. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:29:07 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: fondant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Stan Sandler" wrote: If I understand correctly, the fondant is "candied" at a temperature higher than boiling. That is not so. From my web page: 'the fondant consists of: sugar 74.5% ± 0.5%, glucose solids 14.5% ± 0.5%, water 11.0% ± 0.5%. The ingredients are heated just to boiling point (approx 221ºF) and are then stirred in a creamer until cool.' Baker's fondant is a completely different product to candy. It is brought only to boiling point to sterilise it. Candy is boiled to a much higher temperature, at least 234-243F for soft candy up to 310F for hard candy - in the same way that toffee is made. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:02:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: fondant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fondant is made by boiling a sugar solution to approx 234 Fahrenheit, at this temperature the sugar has not caramelised. Ruary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Sandler" the fondant is "candied" at a temperature higher than boiling. But I thought that scorched honey from a wax melter was bad for bees because at that temperature some sugar is caramelized and this is hard on the bees :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:42:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: overwintering nucs In-Reply-To: <000e01c4bd69$d4da2b60$1bb85ad1@Nemo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-16FA1445; boundary="=======27333E2E=======" --=======27333E2E======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-16FA1445; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > As I winter more than 250 four frame nucs, and some singles, and some > tiny mating nucs with four half sized combs above production colonies, I > should add some comments. >That's right, and putting one hive on top of another makes checking the >bottom hive difficult, That depends upon how you set the hives up. Once the bottom colony is prepared for winter, there isn't any checking anyway. I wrap with a standard wrap for the bottom hive, and a shorter "nuc" wrap for the top. The nuc can be removed without unwraping the bottom hive. When spring comes, the nucs are moved to a holding yard, and the bottom hives can be checked. >plus it means that the bottom hive gets no top >insulation I don't see how this effects the bottom hive. The nuc box on top acts as the insulation for the bottom. The bottom still has its upper entrance, and from what I've seen winters equally well as colonies with no nuc box and standard insulation...2" foam. >Moreover, bees will tend to drift up to the top hive in spring, sometimes >depleting it somewhat. The unit(s) above have their entrances on the sides or back. The bottom hive has its entrances on the front. There really isn't any drift. In my opinion any real boost the top hive gets is from being up, off the cold ground -- I agree. While the top colonies must receive some heat through the inner cover of the bottom colony...solid inner with closed escape hole...I don't think it much. The fact that the top colonies are high and dry is probably why such tiny colonies will survive the winter. Mike > --=======27333E2E=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:48:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations In-Reply-To: <4181CD55.4080009@mts.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-16FA1445; boundary="=======5284204A=======" --=======5284204A======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-16FA1445; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >One thing that cropped up is that individuals mention about placing >colonies on top of others - for heat support etc. > So how are the piled colonies separated from each other? >With inner covers only, queen excludes - or any other permutation? My nuc boxes have a solid bottom...same outside dimensions as the hive body. They sit directly on the inner cover of the colony below. When I winter singles, I add another inner to the bottom...rim up, notch to the back of the hive. This gives the top a rear entrance...to prevent drift...and a bee space below the combs of the top colony. Insulation goes on the inne4r cover of the top colony. >For good heat transfer from bottom unit to supported top unit: I presume >that the bottom one has its lid removed, inner cover only in place, with >the upper unit having its floor in place. >I should put my mind to an intermediate screen of some sort allowing >better heat transfer to take place. Then investigate. I wouldn't do this. There is enough moisture in the hives already, the top doesn't need more coming from below. >Successful wintering here abouts comes down to adequate food, well >prepared with a good number of healthy winter bees. Same as here. Mike --=======5284204A=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:54:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations In-Reply-To: <002d01c4bcec$1588b100$3cbc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-16FA1445; boundary="=======68CF7589=======" --=======68CF7589======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-16FA1445; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >I am afraid the first thing my hives would do when the fall flow ends is rob >out Mikes nucs if close by. >Bob I wonder why the difference. Sure, I have some robbing. Mostly around my truck when I pull in with a load of syrup. But, I've never had a problem with nucs being robbed out by strong colonies. Must be them good Vermont bees have high morals. :-) Mike Mike --=======68CF7589=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:02:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 27/10/04 23:52:30 GMT Daylight Time, mpalmer@TOGETHER.NET writes: <> Have you looked for them? The only really reliable way of telling how many queens you have is by eyeball. With some strains you could have more than two; I came across three laying together last summer, and the original colony I split must have strted with at least four. Regards, Robert Brenchley :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:35:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Out of curiosity, what was your cutoff weight? We found about 90 lbs, >> including floor and lid was the lower end. That was for doubles wintering outdoors, measured in mid-Octover. > 80 to 90 pounds for singles and 140 lbs. for doubles. Well, our target _average_ weight for doubles, weighed in mid-October is 55 kg. i.e. ~120 lbs. Some at 140 to 150 lbs (70 kg) is still OK, but much over that can be a problem. An empty double hive with bees but no feed (starving) weighs about 60 lbs. We found that if hives were, on average much heavier than that, many had so much feed left in spring that their development was affected unless we went through them early -- a lot of hard and unnecessary work. Our bees were a mix of Australian Italians and Kona carniolans. We found they all usually ate very little until mid to late March. > Due to the prolonged canola flow - till the end if Sept, this honey > was placed in the brood box to some extent.... weight is > there - but not the right food for over wintering... How does > one control this? We seldom found much of a problem from canola honey, and we had some pretty hard canola honey. The most important factor is the quality of the colony going in. If it is in good shape and never stressed by starvation, mites or disease, or by excessive manipulation in Fall, they should be fine. In my experience, trucking them from yard to yard in the same area does not seem to hurt them, in case you are wondering about that. Once we learned not to muck with them too much after September -- other than feeding -- our losses levelled out at around 12%, calculated between Oct and May. That was pretty good, since probably 10% of the total hives were already having problems at the time they were wrapped. My experience is in Alberta, but should be of some relevance in Man. Hope this helps put your worries to rest. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:32:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: overwintering nucs >The nuc box on top acts as the insulation for the bottom As stated earlier, what I read on the thermometer was the same temperature as outside air. It doesn't seem to me there's going to be any insulation at all. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:49:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: BEE-L] Entomopathogenic Fungi--Metarhizium anisopliae MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mike wrote: Different strains have varying virulence against different families of insects (lepidoptera,coleoptera, hymenoptera, etc. Second these fungi are often very effective in a controlled setting but can have variable response because of changing environmental conditions during field evaaluation which makes it a challenge for commercial development. Response: Thanks for the informative response about entomopathogenic fungi. It is an excellent response. I might add that in most of these setting the fungus spores are applied in a way to get in/onton the host such as spray or added to the diet. In the case of honey bees, I would like to point out: 1) it would be interesting to know if the fungus is killing mites on bees or killing also developing mites in the capped brood cells. 2) To improve efficacy, it is going to be a challenge to develop a method of application that would allow the fungus spores infect the capped cells before capping! or we might need mulitple applications. 3) I would like to see some data on the side effects on honey bees 4) We need also data about impacts on the spores' counts in produced honey For sure what is published so far it is encouraging. Mike's pragmatic view is well supported by me. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:50:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: overwintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Allen wrote: >> The nuc box on top acts as the insulation for the bottom > > As stated earlier, what I read on the thermometer was the same > temperature as outside air. It doesn't seem to me there's going to be > any insulation at all. I agree with you, but wonder when you measured. Was it when the bees were settled in early in Winter, or after they got more active again in Spring? Or both? We discussed ,some time back, whether bees warm their hives, and there is a lot of confusion on the topic, since sometimes they do not, yet, at other times like Spring, under proper conditions they may. Therefore, the amount of heat generated by a cluster will vary a lot and two people attempting to measure the same thing may see different things depending on season, stimuli, time of day and other (possibly random) factors. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:21:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Formic acid - impurities - global village In-Reply-To: <033b01c4bc97$34ff0bb0$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1. In order to be fair with Jim Fisher, my response about haz mat for formic acid was, I think, correct for small scale beekeeping (those beekeepers who have an unsignificant number of hives but are the vast majotity). Common sense is that one should deal only with small quantities of FA at a time, in particulary with such a volatile and corrosive product. But when dealing with full drums... this is another story. It is not a question of PMRA by-laws then, it is a question of compliance with (in Canada) LCPE (1999), Loi sur le transport des marchandises dangereuses (1992) (considere pesticides exemptions and special exemptions articles 1.15 and next) + provincial laws and by-laws : (in Quebec) réglement sur les matières dangereuses that will deal with storage conditions, mitigation and prevention measures and réglement sur la Santé et sécurité au travail that deals with H&S exposure limits (equivalent by-laws in other North America aeras, those I am aware of are all quite similar). considering some anecdotes, I though it was perhaps not bad to remember those points of regulation. It is ovious that drums can not be stored without adequat ventilation, on-site eye shower, spillage procedure, leak containment tanks under drums, chemicals storage separations, labelling, register, inventory, etc., etc. It is another game than my one liter FA lab bottle locked. With regard to liability, PMRA authorization or not, employers are responsible for the working conditions, for providing adequat protection and for informing their employees of potential risks. 2. Impurities. I asked our company's lab supplier about FA grade and metals impurities. They came up with 3 grade but 4 qualities : food grade (FCC), heavy metals < 10 ppm ACS, 96% concentration, heavy metals < 10 ppm ACS, 88% concentration, heavy metals < 5 ppm Technic grade, 85% concentration, N/A I understood that those limits are controled by a colorimetric test, not really satisfying IMHO. I am still trying to obtain C. of Analysis with routine mass spectro methods. Anyway, I would be agree with Robin and Jim: I do not see how HM could climb in hives if FA is on towel under the SBB. Melting point of all heavy metals (except Hg, of course) are far under ambient temperature, as well as for their main salts (but this is independant from their weight, i.e. : Cr, m.p.=1890C, M=52 g/mol while Pb, m.p.=327C, M=327 g/mol. In fact heavier metals Hg, Pb, Cd are those which are considered more "volatile" because more difficult to catch in pollution control...because of their melting point). If one look in his favorite handbook of chemistery and physics, one will also find vapor pressure of those HM and their main salts at different T,P conditions. I sincerely think the few impurities will not evaporate with acid. Yet, one could ask the same question about OA that is warmed up for sublimation. 3. Why asking about the situation in another country than mine while it is not my business? Because one can easely feel that practice and by-laws in one place now have repercussion in others. I think it is particulary obvious in the case of acids in beekeeping. Each one can feel the influence of others situation. And anyone who ever made some lobbying or conducted public consultations to pass a new by-law know what I mean. Joy of our global village, isn'it ? It is not really my business, but it is certainly ours. Well, if you read until this point, you can really bear my very approximativ English. Hervé Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ? Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:49:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Weaver. [Was: Hives crashing (was Small Hive Beetle)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Although Danny Weaver does not subscribe to BEE-L, in a circuitous route I received the following response to Jim Fisher's post titled: "Weaver. [Was: Hives crashing (was Small Hive Beetle)]". In fairness to Danny and Weaver's in general I am forwarding this response to BEE-L. I apologize to Weavers for any offense taken in Jim's post. Danny's response follows. Dear Jim: A friend forwarded me your "thought police" anti-BeeWeaver propaganda. Congratulations!, your brilliant spin on the plain english in our brochure is quite fantastic. All the more so, since you obviously didn't even bother to read what we wrote first. Please allow me to confuse you with a few facts. We've been selecting for Varroa resistance for more than 10 years. We have not employed chemical treatments for Varroa for more than 3 years. Many of our colonies have survived much longer without chemical treatment. And despite no chemical treatment for Varroa, our colonies are strong enough for us to harvest bees for stocking queen rearing nuclei in February and March, and strong enough to be shaken again in March and April for packages too. After that, our colonies produce a honey crop in Texas or on the Northern Plains, and some colonies produce a honey crop in both places. Now for our 'claims': First, we have been claiming economically significant levels of mite resistance in our bees for more than 2 years. And this year we performed an experiment to compare our queen's tolerance against other queens in a commercial apiary setting. We bought over 1000 colonies from various beekeepers who had obtained queens from a large number of different queen breeders around the US. We removed purchased colonies from chemical mite treatment (all were purchased after conventional acaricide treatments were ready for removal, and all strips were removed from those purchased colonies) upon arrival in Texas. The purchased colonies were run side by side with our own colonies in Texas, and 2 other northern states, under management of several beekeepers - but one basic management scheme. Requeen to avoid colony loss when Varroa infestation threatens colony viability. The results? BeeWeaver bees produced more honey; >50% more honey in most cases - than did purchased colonies. Moreover, some purchased colonies from California were collapsing from Varroa within 60 days of arrival in Texas, and could not be sent north for a honey crop. Other collapsing purchased colonies were requeened in Texas prior to shipping to the northern plains. Purchased colonies which were identified as at risk of imminent death from Varroa during the honey flow on the northern plains were also requeened with BeeWeaver queens when possible. Some purchased colonies were not requeened in the north; but after the honey was pulled, all colonies were returned to Texas, where 'Foreign' vs. BeeWeaver colony survival and brood populations were compared. More than 75% of purchased colonies had either perished, or had been requeened to avoid colony extirpation by the beginning of September. Of the fewer than 25% of foreign queens and colonies that lasted the honey production season, most had little or no viable brood upon return to Texas in September and October. All but a handfull of the purchased colonies have now been requeened to enable colony survival despite Varroa infestations. A few colonies were both requeened and treated with a coumaphos strip on the Northern plains. The rate of survival of colonies treated with both coumaphos and new queens was LOWER than rate of survival after requeening alone. BeeWeaver has always believed in complete disclosure of risks to our customers. We were not the the first beekeeper or queen breeder to develop parasitic mite infestations. But we were the first to 'advertise' the fact that we had tracheal mites, and the first to warn that we had Varroa mites. Likewise, we acquired Small Hive Beetle like many beekeepers; and not by purchasing queens or package bees either. We got the small hive beetle from other bees and beekeepers who moved their colonies within a few hundred yards of some of our beeyards - and were allowed to do so by the apiary inspection services that are purportedly established to protect all of us from that kind of behavior. So lets be clear. If you haven't been exposed to SHB, and don't wish to risk infestation, then don't buy package bees from us. We believe that we can reduce the risk of SHB transmission in queens to a negligble level, but package bees carry a higher risk. You all have a great fall, Cheers, Danny Weaver Daniel Weaver 16481 CR 319 Lynn Grove Road Navasota, TX 77868 936-825-7312 (t) 936-825-7351 (f) www.beeweaver.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:25:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: BEE-L] Entomopathogenic Fungi--Metarhizium anisopliae In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We've conducted testing of a variety of entomopathogenic fungi. Some are heat sensitive, which in at least one case seemed to be way the fungi had little or no effect on honey bees, but had devastating effects on greenshouse bumblebees. Not sure of the temperature range tolerated by M. anisopliae. Interesting side note. General consensus is that these pathogens are relatively host specific (one or a small number of target hosts, maybe an insect group with some common features -- soft integument, alkaline guts, etc.). As such, they present little risk to higher animals. But, one of my colleagues who worked overseas found a Metarhizium that unexpectedly killed rats!! Needless to say, that report got some attention. Rare case, but it can happen. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:18:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: fondant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Ruary Rudd" wrote: > Fondant is made by boiling a sugar solution to approx 234 Fahrenheit, at > this temperature the sugar has not caramelised. The UK's largest manufacturer of baker's fondant heats to only 221F. Whilst 234F will not cause caramelisation, it gives a soft candy - not fondant Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ . :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:18:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: fondant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The UK's largest manufacturer of baker's fondant heats to only 221F. > Whilst 234F will not cause caramelisation, it gives a soft candy - > not fondant One type of commercial fondant has been tested for bees in Canada. I mention it at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2000/diary040100.htm#Fondant allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:30:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Subject: Re: Tens of thousands of hives crashing in the U.S. right now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where are all of these hives dying? I have not heard of any in my area of North Alabama. Lionel ------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by PCLNET, and is believed to be clean. Visit www.pclnet.net and get a 3Mbps cable modem! ------------------------------------------------- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:40:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: overwintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen asked when were temperature measurements taken. The two hives were set up in my backyard in fall just before winter. Nothing elaborate or scientific. Just a nuc size cluster in a 10- frame box setting on top of a two-deep hive separated by 3/8 inch plywood that served as the top hive’s bottom board. Also, the hives weren’t wrapped. I looked at the thermometer at different times though the winter and saw little or no difference. Sometimes, during the day, the inside temperature was lower than outside air temperature. The small top hive didn’t survive through winter although the lower hive did. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:59:38 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Weaver. [Was: Hives crashing (was Small Hive Beetle)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This is quite impressive! Sounds like these are the bees to get. Since nothing is perfect in beekeeping, I'd be curious to learn what approximate percentage of Weaver's colonies succumbs to varroa (I assume not all colonies carry the varroa resistance over to the next generation when open mated) and what approximate percentage of hives are hot/defensive (due to open mating in an area surrounded by Africanized ferals). Danny mentions requeening others' hives that succumbed to varroa. I'd be very curious to learn what percentage of their own hives need requeening. Thank you! Waldemar ========================================= A friend forwarded me your "thought police" anti-BeeWeaver propaganda. Congratulations!, your brilliant spin on the plain english in our brochure is quite fantastic. All the more so, since you obviously didn't even bother to read what we wrote first. Please allow me to confuse you with a few facts. We've been selecting for Varroa resistance for more than 10 years. We have not employed chemical treatments for Varroa for more than 3 years. Many of our colonies have survived much longer without chemical treatment. And despite no chemical treatment for Varroa, our colonies are strong enough for us to harvest bees for stocking queen rearing nuclei in February and March, and strong enough to be shaken again in March and April for packages too. After that, our colonies produce a honey crop in Texas or on the Northern Plains, and some colonies produce a honey crop in both places. Now for our 'claims': :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:21:07 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Michael Palmer" " I've never had a problem > with nucs being robbed out by strong colonies. Must be them good Vermont > bees have high morals. " Or the nucs have good queens. I always thought a queen-right col/nuc can defend itself - or is never the subject of a serious attack - whilst queenless cols or cols with failing queens are quickly detrected. Is that not so? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:41:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Weaver. [Was: Hives crashing (was Small Hive Beetle)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "waldig@netzero.com" "I'd be curious to learn what approximate percentage of Weaver's colonies succumbs to varroa (I assume not all colonies carry the varroa resistance over to the next generation when open mated) and what approximate percentage of hives are hot/defensive (due to open mating in an area surrounded by Africanized ferals)." I'm curious about that - and everything else relevant to success. Read Weaver's post a couple of times and got a general message but no useful facts, in the sensce of being closer to being able to replicate the findings for myself. I posted the suggestion some time back that Bee-L might set up a data base of all varroa experiements, using a fully-sized data entry form that would record EVERYTHING that might have a bearing on success or failure. Then we would know: number of hives/ strain / experience of beekeeper / locality / timing / on...on...on....mite load thru the year / method of assessment of mite load ...on ...on ..... I suggested a subscription from beekeepers world wide might fund the small effort required to post the data submitted into one data base available to all subscribers for their own analyisis of what ever features interest them (How does success with controlling varroa vary around the world? for example). There were absolutely no takers, other than the offer by the researcher to host the system. Are we going to go on FOR EVER merely getting anecdotal accounts from the world's best beekeepers, which (in this form) so under-play their usefullness in spreading effective bee practice? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:25:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations In-Reply-To: <008f01c4be67$00d58a40$a482bc3e@DellDesk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4DA630FE; boundary="=======51F26273=======" --=======51F26273======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4DA630FE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > whilst >queenless cols or cols with failing queens are quickly detrected. Is that >not so? > >Robin Dartington Not necessarily. In fact, I have had a few nucs go queenless this summer. They were in an area where I had SHB just introduced. So, I left them to see what would happen. One box (2 nucs) slowly dwindled. I waited to see what the beetles would do. When I picked it up, there was a small patch of pollen with a few beetle larvae, but no destruction. This nuc box became so weak that it was robbed. The other box (1 nuc on 8 combs) I was watching is still alive, although queenless. I kept it around to show others how to find SHB, and what they look like. It was never robbed. Mike --=======51F26273=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:32:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations In-Reply-To: <1e8.2c8a4ba3.2eb39962@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4DA630FE; boundary="=======1D6B23CC=======" --=======1D6B23CC======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4DA630FE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Have you looked for them? The only really reliable way of telling how >many queens you have is by eyeball. > Robert Brenchley Of course, I realize this. I too have found multiple queens in my colonies...8 out of fifty in colonies I was requeening this July. The colony I was speaking of above I never checked. I was only trying to explain...to myself...why this colony was so strong with so many frames of brood at such an early time of the year. I may be wrong, but multiple queens seemed the best explanation. Mike --=======1D6B23CC=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:38:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: overwintering nucs In-Reply-To: <200410291435.i9TAU114029550@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4DA630FE; boundary="=======3F443279=======" --=======3F443279======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4DA630FE; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > the thermometer was the same temperature as outside air. It >doesn't seem to me there's going to be any insulation at all. > >Dick Allen Because I can only go by the results, I wonder why here...below the 45th..that I have no problems wintering either the nucs on top, or the colony below. I believe your recording of temperatures, and am trying to understand the differences Allen D and I have found. I have no greater loss in colonies with or without nuc boxes on their inners. I wonder if it could be the 3/8" dead air space I have between the bottom colony's inner cover, and the nuc's bottom board. Mike --=======3F443279=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:24:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: fondant In-Reply-To: <00bf01c4bdf6$23ef3420$389587d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Edwards wrote: > "Ruary Rudd" wrote: >>Fondant is made by boiling a sugar solution to approx 234 Fahrenheit, at >>this temperature the sugar has not caramelised. > The UK's largest manufacturer of baker's fondant heats to only 221F. Whilst > 234F will not cause caramelisation, it gives a soft candy - not fondant Both are fondant if you are a cook, in fact most recipes call for 234F for fondant. The reason is the fondant is made with sugar only and you need that temperature to have a paste, otherwise you are working with a thick syrup. 234F is the high side of the thread stage and start of soft ball stage in making candy so you can call it candy or fondant. Websters defines fondant as "candy made of a thick creamy sugar paste" so consistancy defines fondant, not temperature. You are still a long way from carmalization which is 310-338F. Allen gave a source for beekeeper's fondant that was tested on bees. There are fondants on the market that use Tartaric Acid (an ingredient in some cookbooks and recipes for bee's overwintering syrup) and other ingredients which are not good for overwintering bees in cold climates. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:34:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Weaver. In-Reply-To: <20041029.150041.552.169817@webmail27.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From the post it, in this case, appears that cell size had no effect on Varroa tolerance but the bee is the defining factor, since the 1,000 colonies were requeened and that made the difference. One can infer that they were not small cells, but if they were, then they had Varroa and were also collapsing. If they were large cell, they also were collapsing but a new queen added resistance, in spite of the cell size. Cell size may still have an effect, but here it seems that it is the bee. What were what is/are the race/s of bees that the Weaver stock was derived from? It seems that more than one is involved. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:49:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: overwintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Because I can only go by the results, I wonder why here...below the > 45th..that I have no problems wintering either the nucs on top, or the > colony below. I believe your recording of temperatures, and am trying > to understand the differences Allen D and I have found. I have no > greater loss in colonies with or without nuc boxes on their inners. I > wonder if it could be the 3/8" dead air space I have between the > bottom colony's inner cover, and the nuc's bottom board. Well, the farther north you go, the longer winter is, and the longer the winter nights are. Thus stresses that may add up to 'break the camel's back' in the North, may not get quite to that threshold in areas south of here. The other thing is that I am considering the number and quality of the surviving lower colonies compared to those colonies that are not burdened by a nuc, and properly protected with top insulation. I am not saying all colonies set up with top nucs die all the time. Sometimes they do OK here. What I am saying is that, over time, we have had wrecks doing things that way, and seen little advantage when the system does work. I also found that spring work on such arrangement can be difficult and confusing for both the beekeeper and the bees, especially when the the bees are flying. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Weaver. [Was: Hives crashing (was Small Hive Beetle)] In-Reply-To: <009001c4be67$01c8c3e0$a482bc3e@DellDesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Weaver at one time purchased Russian breeders and SMR stock so he could have Varroa resistance. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 298 6261 > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:07:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: overwintering nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Palmer said "I have no greater loss in colonies with or without nuc boxes on their inners. I wonder if it could be the 3/8" dead air space I have between the bottom colony's inner cover, and the nuc's bottom board." Mike, what creates this air space? The rim on the inner cover? Are the bottom hives top ventilated? When comparing overwintered hives with and without nucs on top, I also have no discernable difference in loss, but I have always attributed this to my top ventilation of the bottom hives. I do not have an inner cover on the bottom hives that have nucs on top. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:40:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Tens of thousands of hives crashing in the U.S. right now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Lionel & All, > Where are all of these hives dying? I have not heard of any in my area of > North Alabama. > I think your area experienced this last winter, yea? I called my queen and package bee supplier I use to bring bees in for me and others up here just after I read Bobs post referring to these die offs. I asked him about this and he did say that it is true in the northern California are he is located in and also added that some beekeeper and almond growers are getting scared. Seems that the die off scare is also raising the price of pollination services for almonds. My supplier is not experiencing the massive die offs that other are, he switched a great number of his colonies over to Russian stock over three years ago now. At his queen breeders association meeting he last attended it was mentioned by a prominent researcher that genetics and varroa tolerance will what will help in the future. I think there will be more to it than just that but that is another subject. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:40:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Weaver. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 30/10/04 15:26:46 GMT Daylight Time, bhfarms@SUSCOM-MAINE.NET writes: <> I think its both, at least in the case of my bees. I just did three-day mitefall counts on three hives, two with sister queens and one with an aunt. Hive 1, with the aunt, had a daily mitefall of 8, the same as a month ago when I checked them last. Hive 2 is dropping 3 a day, compared to 2 a moth ago; this one seems to have some resistance. Both these hives are on an eclectic mix of comb sizes. Hive 3 was put on 4.9 in July; I had the combs already drawn. The daily mitefall last month was 6, now its 3. This is going to need further monitoring, but the only reason I can think of why the mitefall would have halved is the cell size. I have trays sitting permamently underneath the hives, and when I took it out to sipe it off prior to starting the count I was surprised by the small number of mites I saw, given the mitefall a month ago, so its not just a random variation. Regards, Robert Brenchley :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:40:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations >> Having feed and nearly finalised colony winter preparations, I find that I have some colonies that have not taken up sufficient feed to "ensure" winter survival. Hey Peter My advice is more of the blunter type. Take your losses now, or take your losses next spring. If a colony doesnt take up enough feed, while given enough oportunity to, it usually mean not enough bees, meaning queen failure later on in the season. (Disease being ruled out) If you are wintering outside, I would of shook them out a while ago. Give it a shot wintering them indoors, you never know, maybe they will pull through. At this point of the game, dont try to merge colonies, for you will kill them anyway. Winter is too close for sutch colony manipulation. It has been a funny season this year. I had lots of swarming and found about 5% of the hives in my yards did not requeen properly. I blame poor weather conditions which prevented properly mated queens. I shook them all out. Getting sick and tierd of this weather, going to have to wait for freeze up before I can get into my yards to wrap. That or a good week of sun... Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:45:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Weak colonies and winter preparations Due to the prolonged canola flow - till the end if Sept, this honey > was placed in the brood box to some extent.... weight is > there - but not the right food for over wintering... How does > one control this? Dont worry, they will do just fine on canola honey. Mine do, as long as they arent honeybound beginning of September. If that is the case, more honeysupers were needed during the flow. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:35:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Increase in Indian honey harvest In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Visiting > http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/ a topic suggesting that the country of India is poised to increase its exports of honey in the global market. Increasing from 20,000 tonnes at present to 30,000 tonnes by 2008. Increase indeed! What really caught my eye was the claim that: "The beekeeping activities of countries and regions like China, Europe and the US have been affected by the pest and viral attacks, the impact of which has been so severe and drastic that their honey exports have been virtually ruined," Assocham president Mahendra K. Sanghi. So knowing that India contacted with varroa in 1961, and the FOA suggests that this mite is a big problem in India > http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/ags/Agsi/agin.htm that Apis cerana. indica only produces approx. 3 to 5kg. of honey /year, and there are problems with Apis m. > http://cgi.www.new-agri.co.uk/00-5/focuson/focuson6.html Apis dorsata produces upto 80kg of honey but is not domesticated (AFAIK). How come Indian beekeepers are considering that the rest of us are ruined by varroa and viruses, leaving their industry to thrive and expand its export market? If produce that is placed on the market comes up to the production standards that I am required to attain to sell my honey - fine, BUT, Is this is going to be another case of "Me having to make clean honey in clean place", whilst the nation's packers then import below home standards? Packers should start to realise that it may not just be production industries that will move "off shore" as at present. The producers of cheap material will one day bite the hand that feeds them, and the domestic suppliers that remain may not be able, or feel like filling their bowl. Just incase there are any comment about sub-standard honey on the market, recall the recent recalls!!!, also, honey in cereal products, any comments on that one seeing that it is so good for our children. Regards, Peter P.S. Was it not an Indian company that recently offered to fill our jars with a substance that could not be distinguished as not being honey? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:33:05 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: fondant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This thread has been interesting but has not really answered the = question I posed. Regardless of whether the fondant is a candy or not, = or whether it is heated to 221 or 234 F, either temperature is higher = than the boiling point of water. Bill Truesdell wrote: You are still a long way from carmalization which is 310-338 F Why then is scorched honey from a water bath wax melter carmelized? I = suspect that the answer has to do with time, and that carmelization is = not something which happens at a particular temperature, but as a = product of both temperature and time. But perhaps something else is the = reason. Please enlighten me. My wax melter honey certainly tastes like = some of the sugars have carmelized to me. But since honey starts to darken long before the boiling point of water, = I am curious as to why the fondant sugars do not. I also do not understand why a hardened sugar product makes excellent = winter feed, when granulated honey or syrup does not.=20 Regards Stan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:29:54 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Owen Watson Subject: Re: Increase in Indian honey harvest In-Reply-To: <41844F6E.3060600@mts.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii >How come Indian beekeepers are considering that the rest of us are >ruined by varroa and viruses, leaving their industry to thrive and >expand its export market? I don't know about India, but Vietnam has had varroa for some time and deals with it by rapid buildup on colonies in spring (ie outbreeding varroa), drone brood destruction, and another non-chemical management method (see Control of Varroa, Mark Goodwin & Cliff Van Eaton, Ministry of Agriculture, NZ). Apparently their average yields per hive are 30kg. -- --Owen Watson --at home in Wellington, New Zealand --Don't reply to erewhon@rsnz.govt.nz -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:41:38 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Increase in Indian honey harvest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Owen Watson" " Vietnam has had varroa for some time > and deals with it by rapid buildup on colonies in spring (ie > outbreeding varroa), drone brood destruction, and another > non-chemical management method (see Control of Varroa, Mark Goodwin > & Cliff Van Eaton, Ministry of Agriculture, NZ)." The Vietnam control regime apparently typically involves cutting back to 50-100 hives at the end of the season and expanding to 500 by splitting during the first flow at the start of the next saeson. Varroa are controlled by removing drone brood and also the first brood frames filled after inducing a period of queenless-ness, (the pupae being extracted and sold as a food delicacy). No chemicals. Drone brood removal in spring has always seemed to me to be like driving with the brake on. You induce the bees to increase brood rearing but then destroy their efforts. If that brood rearing had been concentrated on worker production, there would be more foragers later and a larger harvest - so the method is not 'free'. Any comments from beekeepers in temperate areas who rely strongly on spring drone removal? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:31:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: fondant In-Reply-To: <003301c4befa$592fc1e0$c2289aa5@stanshoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler wrote: > I also do not understand why a hardened sugar product makes excellent > winter feed, when granulated honey or syrup does not. Here we go again. I would put the order from best to worst: sugar syrup- fondant (which is better called a soft candy than hard sugar product) - granulated honey. Check the commercial beekeepers and they feed predominately sugar syrup or HFCS for winter feed. It is the feed that will be in the cells for use by the bees over the winter and is the best winter feed. Fondant is fine but requires an additional change of state, caused by moisture in the hive which liquefies it. I use it for spring feed, but not for winter. It is a good supplemental feed and my guess is, for those who feed it in the fall, it does not come into play until the late winter/early spring if the bees went into the winter with normal stores. Plus, fondant is more expensive than either sugar syrup or HFCS. It makes little sense to use it as a fall feed but is excellent as a late winter, early spring feed since it does not promote early foraging by the colony, as syrup might. It has saved many colonies of bees when used this way. The problem with granulated honey is that it can go from granulated to liquid in stages so fermentation of the honey can take place, which is harmful to the overwintering bees. The Hive and the Honey Bee has an excellent description of the chemistry involved. To prepare sugar syrup, it is best not to boil it but dissolve the sugar in warm water. However, the harm to the bees is still not that great if boiled (I use to boil it). We are talking degree, something measurable in the lab but probably not noticed in the real world, so not a major problem. But why boil it if you do not have to? I would not feed heated (boiled) honey to a colony for any kind of feed, winter or summer. Sugar and HFCS are cheap and not harmful. As far as the "caramelization" of honey in a boiling water bath, I will leave that to others. The taste changes but I am not sure if you could call it caramelization in cooking terminology, since, with sugar, you also have a different physical structure (solid), while the honey is remains in a liquid state. I would call it "burnt" which is a term I have heard from others (and is also used to describe caramelization- burnt sugar, so I think we are in the "what is Fondant" question again). That is only my opinion, so someone else can give you a technical response. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:35:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: fondant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Stan: One of the reasons that honey from a wax melter is discolored is that bits of propolis in the wax / honey mix seem to dissolve in the heated honey. Since the propolis is typically a dark brown, it makes the honey look caramelized. If you are using a wax melter with hot water below and radiant electric heaters above, the radiant heat can make the temperature of parts of the top surface much hotter than the average temperature. If the heat is provided with steam or hot water through unplated metal pipes, the metal will react with the acids in the honey and wax and cause discoloration. Other reactions with and among the minor constituents of the honey and wax will occur at elevated temperatures, discoloring both wax and honey. The advantage of the fondant in our winter is that it is placed above the cluster and that is where the bees gravitate toward as the honey in the comb is consumed. When it is really cold bees don't seem to move out or down to honey. Best regards Donald Aitken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Sandler" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 29/10/2004 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:46:20 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Record keeping and equalizing by commercial beekeepers. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain As I did my fall preparations and recorded some hive stats, I wondered how commercial beekeepers running hundreds or thousands of colonies do it. It would seem quite time consuming. Perhaps Bob or other large beekeepers can shed some light? Also, do commercial beekeepers routinely transpose strong and weak colonies to equalize their hives? Thank you! Waldemar LI, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:54:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Weaver. [Was: Hives crashing (was Small Hive Beetle)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>I'm curious about that - and everything else relevant to success. Read Weaver's post a couple of times and got a general message but no useful facts, in the sensce of being closer to being able to replicate the findings for myself. As I have not seen independent confirmation in the beekeeping literature I get, I was hoping to hear here from folks who have used Weaver's queens recently (as in last year) to share their experiences. Weaver's post certainly sounded like a success story and I'd think their customers would rave. I tend to be a bit skeptical at first and feel manufacturers/producers/breeders, in general, rarely put their product down and tend to exaggerate in their claims. This is not to say I disagree with Weaver's claims. I just would like to get some independent confirmation. Best regards, Waldemar LI, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:47:16 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: M & T Weatherhead Subject: Re: Increase in Indian honey harvest In-Reply-To: <41844F6E.3060600@mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Visiting > http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/ > a topic suggesting that the country of India is poised to increase its exports of honey in > the global market. Increasing from 20,000 tonnes at present to 30,000 tonnes by 2008. One wonders where the finances are coming from to facilitate this increase. Usually honey is produced by the rural people in these type of countries and as such would not have a great deal of money to expand. I know that often Apis cerana is easily kept but it will still require material to house the bees and "clean" facilities to process the honey. Also wasn't India one of those countries caught laundering honey from other countries? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 29/10/04 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:37:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Record keeping and equalizing by commercial beekeepers. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wademar asks: As I did my fall preparations and recorded some hive stats, I wondered how commercial beekeepers running hundreds or thousands of colonies do it. It would seem quite time consuming. Perhaps Bob or other large beekeepers can shed some light? I keep a large note book in each truck and keep careful notes (which might need my interpretation). I take notes everytime I *enter* and *leave* a bee yard. I also many times take the notebooks in the house at night to look over again to plan the next day. At time I use the notebooks to rest my head on and place my feet out the window when getting a little shut eye at a bee location which accounts for the rough shape they are in. I do write all over my hives with a magic marker (using several colors). Magic marker marks are gone the second season but work to remind me of observations in early spring without going to the truck to look at the notebook. I have got decades of notebooks. I use a label maker to mark certain hives with coded data.( queen type , year , source & linage) I push the label into the lid with a big tack. I have also used cans of cheap spray paint to mark ( simple dot of a certain color) certain hives which are involved in testing such as SMR.(crude but effective) I dislike (although have got quite a bit of hands on experience) going through a semi load of bees from many different queen breeders and no way of telling when they were last requeened. Let alone last fed or medicated! Hives which had problems are not marked. I could not keep bees without a record system . I agree mine is not the best but is better than bricks in a certain arrangement in my opinion. My hives are many different colors and branded with many different brands (beekeepers I bought out) besides my own brand. I buy miss match paint ( only high quality) to save money but only buy pastel colors. If a miss match darker color of a good exterior paint comes along (reasonable) I will sometimes buy and cut with a white paint. Paint is expensive and I keep the paint up on my hives. I would guess I have got a few boxes with three year old paint but most get a coat of paint every two years. Paint covers up all my magic marker marks until the next season. My supers could use a coat of paint but would need to be painted outside, is a hassle, and robbing is an issue. Maybe next year but not a priority as they have got enough paint to protect. As soon as extracted the supers are placed on special skids (7 high & 6 to the skid) , shrink wrapped and placed in a 40 foot sea going cargo container (which will hold 20 skids ) to protect from wax moth damage. The next time they are picked up they are placed on the truck for the bee yards and the shrink wrap keeps the mt supers from shifting around. >Also, do commercial beekeepers routinely transpose strong and weak colonies to equalize their hives? I do at times in early spring but for the most part i do not have time to pamper weak *production hives*. In most cases "dinks" are shook out and equipment returned to shop. It is not cost effective to drive 25 miles with a truck which stops at every gas station to check to see if a queen has been released or feed one hive let alone spend the time. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:00:43 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Increase in Indian honey harvest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "M & T Weatherhead" wondered: > where the finances are coming from to facilitate this > increase. Usually honey is produced by the rural people in these type > of countries and as such would not have a great deal of money to expand. > > I know that often Apis cerana is easily kept but it will still require > material to house the bees and "clean" facilities to process the honey. Finance is available and little is required to produce hives for cerana - they are very simple and roughly made (cerana does not seem to built much brace or use much propolis, so hives and frames can be quite crudely made). I met one young man in Kerala who was from a very poor family, but is now running a very successful business producing around 10 tonnes of honey a year as well as running 1250 colonies just to stock hives for sale. He also manufactures and sells beekeeping equipment. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:42:37 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Increase in Indian honey harvest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Peter Dillon" wrote: > that Apis cerana. indica only produces approx. 3 to 5kg. of honey /year, I was in Kerala, S. India, earlier this year and saw many very prosperous cerana colonies. Since returning home, I have exchanged many emails with contacts out there and understand that they have had a very good year with an extended flow from the rubber plantations. The average yield had been 18kg per colony. However, I would have some concerns about the quality of the honey, due to processing methods. I saw much galvanised equipment, including honey storage tanks, and the very humid climate seems to give very wet honey - 4 samples that I was given tested at between 21.75% moisture (from mellifera and 1 batch from cerana) to 23.75% (from cerana). As far as I could ascertain, honey was heated to quite high temperatures (bottles put into water at near boiling point) in order to clear and prevent fermentation. I do not have the ability to test for HMF, but I suspect that levels may well be higher than those allowed in the EU. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:21:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: fondant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Aitken" To: Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] fondant > Hi Stan: > > One of the reasons that honey from a wax melter is discolored is that bits > of propolis in the wax / honey mix seem to dissolve in the heated honey. > Since the propolis is typically a dark brown, it makes the honey look > caramelized. > >This is interesting,I suppose, from this info, from the standpoint of >appearance this may not be desirable but from a nutritional standpoint it >may be an advantage. Alden Marshall Hudson, NH 03051 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:31:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Increase in Indian honey harvest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Dartington" > Drone brood removal in spring has always seemed to me to be like driving > with the brake on. You induce the bees to increase brood rearing but then > destroy their efforts. If that brood rearing had been concentrated on > worker > production, there would be more foragers later and a larger harvest - so > the > method is not 'free'. > Any comments from beekeepers in temperate areas who rely strongly on > spring > drone removal? > I do cull drone brood in the spring. AFAIK there is no evidence that drones rearing reduces the production of worker brood. Of course there is the depletion of resources but if they are sufficient it is probably worth it. There are always some kind of resources involved in managing colonies to control undesirable conditions, it can be ours or the bees or both. The payback is what I believe we are all interested in, for both parties I hope. Alden Marshall Hudson, NH 03051 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:49:34 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Increase in Indian honey harvest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Owen Watson" wrote: > >How come Indian beekeepers are considering that the rest of us are > >ruined by varroa and viruses, leaving their industry to thrive and > >expand its export market? Cerana certainly seems to be thriving in Kerala, S. India. TSBV devastated the colonies in the early 90's, but they have bounced back and are producing well. Earlier this year I met two beekeepers running 2500 colonies each, with no worries from TSBV, varroa or any other disease! Peter Edwards (thinking about emigration) beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:04:41 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Howard McGinnis Subject: Bees and industrial floodlamps In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello, I've been asked what can be done about bees being drawn to floodlights at an industrial site. The area is a bee heaven, lots of plants, lots of water and the complex is large. At night, the workers have to pass by a set of floodlamps that are drawing bees in and a few are being stung. Other than finding the hive and shielding it from the light or hooding the floodlight, is there any other method that would not attract bees? Any special lights? Howard :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::