From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:46:21 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-89.9 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1EE4903B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlR012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0412A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 59339 Lines: 1328 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:33:44 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy.l.flaming@EXGATE.TEK.COM Subject: Beehavior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK, since the traffic has been slow lately I will ask a question I have wondered about for a long time. I am sure the answer is in the archives, but I do not even know how I would begin that search. Here's the question. I have noticed a phenomenon occasionally where my bees will exit the hive in very large numbers and then circle the hive rather noisily for 15-30 minutes and then all re-enter the hive. The times I have noticed this were all on nicer days than average in the spring or fall and usually early in the day. At first I thought it was swarming behavior, but I have never seen swarm cells in those hives and while the number of bees in the air is high, it is never on the order of a swarm - maybe a few hundred, but not a few thousand bees. I have observed one hive do this only to be followed by another hive shortly after or even two hives doing it at the same time. What are the bees doing? Thanks, Randy Flaming :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:43:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: New Primer Pheromone In-Reply-To: <200411302028.iAUJkP1B020192@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:28 PM 11/30/2004, you wrote: Zachary I know exactly how you feel. The down side of Science is that its one thing to hit on a viable theory, all together another to prove it. Science requires patience, not only by beekeepers who want answers now, but also for the investigator who often spends a considerable part of his/her life trying to obtain the elusive proof. You're one of the lucky ones - actually solved a key piece of the puzzle early in your career -- if you can call 12 years early. More than one of us has retired or passed on without ever catching the brass ring. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:43:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: How do you reuse plastic foundation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Milt asks " Is it really possible to scrape the wax from Pierco (and other) plastic foundation and have the bees successfully redraw comb on it. " If the bees drew wax thick enough to cover the cells imprinted in the foundation then you'll need to chip the wax away to get the bees to draw it correctly the next time, revealing the 'imprint' in design you want them to follow (vs. their imprint left in the wax). Part of using plastic foundation is finding/scraping portions of Pierco/Ritecell/etc where the bees preferred drone cells or brace comb. Freezing for some is the easiest method to clean plastic. During the summer I'll use a power washer followed by a bath in 50-50 bleach/water on old frames. If you have possibility of disease you'll need attention in pressure-washing off 100% of the wax. You'll find wax/silk flake off easily and only take a few seconds per side. No worries on re-coating plastic with wax. Wax coating simply speeds things up for the bees but not 'necessary'. If you're using plastic foundation then you already know the difficulties getting the bees to draw vs. wax/waxed. More-so (difficulties) with unwaxed foundation. So you'll just have to stick to the rules -more- on drawing unwaxed foundation: ON a heavy flow, JUST above the brood nest, One or Two frames mixed in with other drawn frames, Sprayed lightly with syrup --- & then you'll have to visit the box every 3 or 4 days to add in more frames, scrape down imperfections, etc, to get the bees to draw exactly the way you want. There are other methods to draw (ie - on large hive & strong flow, entire box of undrawn & drag up 2 frames of brood & place just over the brood nest; feeding to simulate flow when warm enough to draw), etc. Once the frames of plastic are drawn they're superior in every way to wax foundation - or worse, Duragilt. The 'trick' is getting the stuff drawn correctly. Bees prefer wax. But then that's 'management', getting the bees to do something the beekeeper prefers... & BTW - For beginners & hobbyists, I would recommend using Duragilt. But for those whom would prefer to 'learn' about managing combs and prefer durable frames over the long term, plastic -is- your solution. Matthew Westall - E-Bees - Castle Rock, CO - thinking the mites are keeping me on edge this winter and may be creating a Pandora's box come spring :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:17:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L: Beehavior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Randy Flaming > noticed a phenomenon occasionally where my bees will > exit the hive in very large numbers and then circle the > hive rather noisily for 15-30 minutes and then al >l re-enter the hive. These are "play flights", made by young bees that are nearing the forage stage in the division of labor. The bees are "programming" the location of the hive in their bee brains. The bees will make ever increasing circles around the hive, learning its location in relation to the surrounding landmarks. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:06:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: How do you reuse plastic foundation? In-Reply-To: <001e01c4d7bc$7e1dc440$d399ac43@ecapital83wvji> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-213A02; boundary="=======716A2230=======" --=======716A2230======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-213A02; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > you'll need to chip the wax away to get the bees to draw it >correctly Couldn't the frames with poorly drawn Pierco be dipped into hot water? That would melt all the wax off the plastic, and re-coat it with wax as the frame was removed from the water. Anyone ever tried it this way? Mike --=======716A2230=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 19:14:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Miscellaneous Questions - capping, RH In-Reply-To: <63D883CB0A1B204EB053673DD882CB53933ECC@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1. What are the stimuli that lead bees to cap larvae cells ? 2. What is the relative humidity (RH) in the wintering cluster (especially in its outer layer) ? Do the cluster maintain a certain minimum RH to avoid desication ? Many thanks to those who will take time to respond. Hervé www.emelys.com Vous manquez d’espace pour stocker vos mails ? Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:48:16 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Two-to-One Sugar Syrup In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Christopher Reed writes >I have heard many beekeepers recommend feeding >syrup of a two-to-one ratio in autumn. Interesting that Johansson and Johansson recommend 61% which is close enough to 6kg to 4l for the autumn feed as it gives the best conversion. (Some Important Operations in Beekeeping, IBRA 1978: all chapters previously published in Bee World; the one on feeding in 1976 and 77 - a comprehensive summary of the research on feeding at the time which could not then include HFCS of course). It does not crystallise for me. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 18:17:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: Miscellaneous Questions - capping, RH On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 19:14:41 +0100, =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= < eauairsols@YAHOO.COM> wrote: >1. What are the stimuli that lead bees to cap larvae >cells ? The stimuli seems to be the brood pheromone -- 10 different esters (methyl and ethyl) of straight chain acids (palmitate, sterate, linolic, etc, cannot remember all five). the esters change in proportions as the larvae age (drones also have a different signature), so the workers exactly when to cap them. I donot know the answer to the RH question. Zach http://cyberbee.msu.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 23:16:35 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: Two-to-One Sugar Syrup In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Christopher Reed writes Correction (I have reread the article I referred to!) Interesting that Johansson and Johansson recommend 61% which is close enough to 6kg to 4l for the autumn feed as it gives the *best conversion* should be "highest concentration without risk of granulation in the feeder"; *61%* I cannot find in the article so I must suppose my memory was faulty on this too as both 64% and 60% are mentioned, which is slightly contradictory. Sorry for the correction: the article throws figures at the reader and it is hard to draw some of them together to identify best practice in all respects. It does make for challenging reading as regards the benefit to bees of different types of feeding, many of which are claimed to be of dis-benefit to bees and harvests yet may be in fairly widespread use. It would be nice if the List could recommend an updated equally comprehensive review article, readily available. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:45:34 +0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Creamed Honey In-Reply-To: <200411300501.iAU4mpn9024410@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > <>From: Peter Edwards Sorry for the late reply Peter, I'm spending winter in Thailand. I'm on a commercial level and it makes things a little harder. > <> > >>...using a proper starter made as described here: >>http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/research/krist-e-nf.htm >> >> > >I am struggling to understand this website. Firstly, it takes little power >to stir honey at 15C because of the gearing - my motor is just a couple of >hundred watts and therefore uses little power to stir, say, 5 times a day >for 15 minutes for 3 days. > > I have tanks of 3 tons...Stirring several tons of honey at low temp will need considerable power. At least a 10 HP motor. >However, my main problem is with the production of the 'living starter'. >This is produced from starter that 'need not be fine grain'. So how do you >get from coarse crystals to a final fine grain product? Seeding honey with >a coarse-grained starter will produce a very coarse-grained end product. > > It will not if you keep it at 10 degrees C all the time. The small amount of coarse crystals used to start the process will not affect the final result. They will be broken down to smaller units during stirring. 10 C is chosen because it is difficult to stir honey at a lower temp with a low water content honey. Yes you get the fastest crystallization at 14 C, but not the finest crystal structure. That is achieved at lower temp where it's impossible to stir it. You can leave honey in the freezer and will get a very fine structure, however, you will have to keep it there for years.... But you don't need to make the starter with any crystallized honey. Liquid honey will crystallize most of the time anyway in 10 C, but it will take a few days longer. Once you have the starter, save a little for next batch every time. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:13:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: New Primer Pheromone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jerry, Thanks. Yes I was pretty lucky that Gene persisted (after I left UIUC for MSU) and rounded up nice collaborators from France and Canada.... it took a whole team of many people to solve the puzzle. My main role was to propose the pheromone existed... and to hunt it for over 5 years, to no avail... Someone said that science now works differently – it always takes more than one person to work nowadays, and I agree. Zach http://photo.bees.net/gallery :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 13:50:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Massimiliano Subject: Chloramphenicol and trimethoprim in royal jelly powder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The european rapid alert sistem for food and feed has notificated the presence of Chloramphenicol and trimethoprim in royal jelly powder in germany. The origin of royal jelly was Vietnam by Netherlands by Spain. Regards, Massimiliano Gotti Aspromiele Italy :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 10:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Inebriated (Drunk) honey bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The article at this reference (http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article4456.html)was sent out by the Associated Press on November 24. I have talked with Sue Cobey at Ohio State's Ruthenbuhler lab and she confirmed that the essence of the story is accurate. However, the data are not yet in a satisfactory form to be published in one of the journals. Amazing Bees! Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 15:21:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Inebriated (Drunk) honey bees In-Reply-To: <005f01c4d882$7043dbe0$b2e9d518@newdell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: > The article at this reference > (http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article4456.html)was sent out by the > Associated Press on November 24. You could consider this study off the wall with no relation to beekeeping, but some honeydews that are collected by bees in the north, ferment during the winter and bees can get a dose of ethanol. So this may be one part of honeydews bad reputation as an overwintering feed. Not good to drop from the cluster in the middle of a Maine winter. BTW, my tests have come back with "no evidence of disease" in regard to the malignant melanoma after the removal of the tumor and additional lymph nodes which came back clean. So I am in the recurrent check mode with a series of tests in February to see if anything is lurking around. If clear, I will go to six month checks. Thank you for your many off-list emails, prayers and encouragement. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 10:13:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: How do you reuse plastic foundation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Michael Palmer asks " Couldn't the frames with poorly drawn Pierco be dipped into hot water?" Any heat applied to plastic will quickly warp/melt the foundation. If you 'have' to run wax on your plastic foundation then the two suggestions left on Bee-L are decent - rubbing blocks of wax across the cleaned cell imprints, or a foam brush applying mildly hot beeswax. Alot of trouble if you ask me but certainly will work. You might consider doing the work out in the field as bees are bound to keep you occupied 'correcting' their designs whether or not your plastic foundation is waxed or not. Matthew Westall - E-Bees - Castle Rock, CO -thinking the worst of our cold weather is upon us & there might not be enough days to get equipment ready for spring... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:17:10 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "P-O Gustafsson" wrote: > Sorry for the late reply Peter, I'm spending winter in Thailand. I hope that you do not expect any of us to feel sorry for you! > I'm on a commercial level and it makes things a little harder. Commercial level in Thailand? We need to know more - but even then I suspect that few will feel sorry for you. Envy - yes! I am still struggling with your postings! I have spent years perfecting my set honey (50% of my sales) and have won many prizes for it - but I just cannot see how your method could produce a fine-grained (like butter, with no discernable crystals), soft-set product. > I have tanks of 3 tons...Stirring several tons of honey at low temp will > need considerable power. At least a 10 HP motor. Surely it is only in proportion? I stir approx 180lbs at a time with just an 80 watts motor (I have had a look at the rating plate since my last post), so presumably 3 tons (I am working on proper English tons) would need just under 3kw, i.e. just over 5hp. (3*2240/180)* 80W. >>However, my main problem is with the production of the 'living starter'. >>This is produced from starter that 'need not be fine grain'. So how do you >>get from coarse crystals to a final fine grain product? Seeding honey with >>a coarse-grained starter will produce a very coarse-grained end product. > It will not if you keep it at 10 degrees C all the time. The small > amount of coarse crystals used to start the process will not affect the > final result. They will be broken down to smaller units during stirring. > 10 C is chosen because it is difficult to stir honey at a lower temp > with a low water content honey. Yes you get the fastest crystallization > at 14 C, but not the finest crystal structure. That is achieved at lower > temp where it's impossible to stir it. You can leave honey in the > freezer and will get a very fine structure, however, you will have to > keep it there for years.... This does not agree with anything that I have read. Presumably it requires a great deal of stirring to break down coarse crystals? When I have used coarse starter, no amount of stirring seemed to make any difference. As far as I am aware, all commercial packers grind their starter to produce fine crystals. Regarding the temperature, all the literature suggests that the faster the granulation, the finer the crystals - so 57F is the optimum - but you are claiming that a lower temperature, giving a slower crytallisation, will produce finer crystals. I would also ask what is the cost of refrigerating to 10C? (In Thailand???) You also state that freezing honey will produce a fine grain, although it will take years; again, this does not agree with anything that I have read or observed, i.e. that freezing honey will stop ALL crystallisation. > But you don't need to make the starter with any crystallized honey. > Liquid honey will crystallize most of the time anyway in 10 C It might, but often with a very coarse crystal structure in my experience (unless it is mainly from oilseed rape). > Once you have the starter, save a little > for next batch every time. Again, everything that I have read and experienced tells me that if you keep honey from one batch to seed the next, then the crystal size will gradually increase. Does anyone else have a view? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:21:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Hack Subject: Re: Creamed Honey In-Reply-To: <002501c4d985$d9f7f400$d3ce87d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >You also state that freezing honey >will produce a fine grain, although it will take years; again, this does not >agree with anything that I have read or observed, i.e. that freezing honey >will stop ALL crystallization. This is what I read too, so I put my honey in a deep freeze. Three years running the honey started to crystallize after five or six months of being frozen. Granted it is quite soft when warmed to room temperature, but the texture is very fine. Go figure. The same honey kept in normal unheated storage crystallizes as one would expect. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:00:42 +0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Creamed Honey In-Reply-To: <200412040500.iB44aotw020405@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Peter Edwards > > Commercial level in Thailand? Nope, bees are wintered in Sweden, beekeeper winters better in Thailand... :-) > > This does not agree with anything that I have read. Presumably it requires > a great deal of stirring to break down coarse crystals? When I have used > coarse starter, no amount of stirring seemed to make any difference. Until you keep it at 10 C all the time. > as I am aware, all commercial packers grind their starter to produce fine > crystals. Most of them used to, but it's not needed with this method. > I would also ask what is the cost of refrigerating to 10C? The starter needed is less than 3%. In my case I use an old fridge to hold 30 kg of starter. Enough for 3 (metric) tons of honey. Yes 1% starter will crystallize honey so fine you are not able to detect any grains in it. I keep the honey at 18C after adding the starter, but it works up to app. 25C during crystallization process. > will produce a fine grain, although it will take years; again, this does not > agree with anything that I have read or observed, i.e. that freezing honey > will stop ALL crystallisation. > The lower temp, the slower build up of crystal structures. The crystals strive to move together to form larger units. Low temp with it's higher viscosity counteract this movement and the small crystals that are formed can't move far enough to attach to others and establish larger units. > >>But you don't need to make the starter with any crystallized honey. >>Liquid honey will crystallize most of the time anyway in 10 C > > It might, but often with a very coarse crystal structure in my experience > (unless it is mainly from oilseed rape). Until you keep it at 10C.... Any honey will work. Try and you will see. Don't believe the old books too much, Peter. There is papers published on this work, I think one of the guys behind it was in Apimondia in Canada. But can't dig anything out about it when I'm here in Thailand. Have to finish here, there is a BBQ and some Chang beers waiting...;-) -- Cheers P-O Gustafsson, Sweden (temp relocated to Thailand) beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:58:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Erwan Cassard Subject: Re: Chloramphenicol and trimethoprim in royal jelly powder In-Reply-To: <000901c4d86d$85be69a0$d80c0a3e@max> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Massimoliano, Please could you say where did you get this information ? Thank's Regards Erwan French beekeeper Le 2 déc. 04, à 13:50, Massimiliano a écrit : > The european rapid alert sistem for food and feed has notificated the > presence of Chloramphenicol and trimethoprim in royal jelly powder in > germany. > The origin of royal jelly was Vietnam by Netherlands by Spain. > Regards, > Massimiliano Gotti > Aspromiele Italy > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 12:45:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: deealusby1@AOL.COM Subject: Royal Jelly Product contamination in Germany Comments: To: Organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All: _http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/food/rapidalert/reports/week46-2004_en.pdf_ (http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/food/rapidalert/reports/week46-2004_en.pdf) Here is a site you should all keep abreast of in Europe for product contamination. Looks Like joyal jelly has come up contaminated in Germany with country of origin Vietnam via the netherlands via Spain. Contaminating substances were chlorampenicol and trimethoprim in the royal jelly powder. So reading this knowing the jelly is dried, I would also suspect IMPOV actual royal jelly from same sources. So ask questions of your large scale suppliers and sourcrces obtained from. Especially you organic beekeepers not wanting chemicals to hurt queens being reared from grafting with such. Respectfully Submitted: Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Tucson, Arizona _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers/) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 22:08:18 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "P-O Gustafsson" wrote: > Nope, bees are wintered in Sweden, beekeeper winters better in > Thailand... :-) The whole winter in Thailand? In that case I shall only feel sorry for the bees! (Although I have to confess that I do have a holiday to S.India planned and am counting down the days). Many thanks for the additional explanation. The method is now much clearer (perhaps it might help my understanding if I did not stay up half the night trying to get everything done - but there are never enough hours in the day). In effect, as I now understand it, the only real difference in our methods is the preparation of the starter; I rely on using to fine grain honey to use as seed, whereas you produce seed (or starter) from honey with any size of crystal by cooling it to 10C and then stirring until it has a creamy fine grain. Is this stirring not a form of grinding? After seeding you then pack it into jars and store these at 5-15C to set, which you say can take up to 3 weeks. This would give me a problem in the summer, as it would be difficult to hold large numbers of jars at 5-15C because I do not have refrigerated stores available. However, by stirring after seeding for 15 minutes, 5 times a day, I find that the honey is usually almost set in 3-5 days - regardless of ambient temperature; it is then bottled and usually sets firm in the jar within 1-2 days. Whilst this is convenient, the best point is that honey produced in this way never frosts under normal variations of temperature - giving it an almost indefinite shelf life. > Have to finish here, there is a BBQ and some Chang beers waiting...;-) That was below the belt, as we say here! Our weather has been awful, everywhere is saturated and many apiary sites just a sea of mud - so bad that I have had to leave the Land Rover on the nearest bit of hard track and then walk to many sites - I do not relish getting it bogged down miles from any help, even though I do have a winch. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 22:38:53 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Bob Hack" wrote: > This is what I read too, so I put my honey in a deep freeze. Three years > running the honey started to crystallize after five or six months of being > frozen. This is interesting. Although I have not tried it myself, I know beekeepers who store comb honey in the freezer to keep it liquid - and it works, even for rape honey. I wonder if there is a difference here between comb and extracted honey - presumably the extracted is likely to have more prime nuclei, in the form of pollen grains, and therefore be more likely to granulate. > Go figure. That's what I am trying to do! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 22:20:00 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Royal Jelly Product contamination in Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dee Lusby wrote: > Here is a site you should all keep abreast of in Europe for product > contamination. What a worrying site - and not just for those of us in Europe, as I note that some of the products originated in the USA! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:28:50 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Royal Jelly Product contamination in Germany In-Reply-To: <005501c4da50$2e2a9d00$ecb987d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Peter Edwards: Yes,pistachios from US are listed, but most seems to center on various seafoods, nuts, cheese, etc., besides the royal jelly I previously noted, with this report, on stuff originiating not only in Far East, but EU, mid-east and UK too, so you don't feel left out. Wonder what items they will check next report as I am sure it changes. Respectfully Submitted Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Tucson, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:38:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "Bob Hack" wrote: > > This is what I read too, so I put my honey in a deep freeze. Three years > > running the honey started to crystallize after five or six months of being > > frozen. I have the same thing happen to me Bob. It's a nice texture. Kent Ontario Canada :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 23:36:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Honey exports to EU and other GMO free areas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to all, It appears that there is a trend of decreasing honey prices at present. From a Canadian point of view - it seems a little strange as the crop for 2004 is again reduced when compared to previous years. But the type of comment above, is as ever too simplistic. What is happening in other producing/exporting areas. Historical producer/buyer bluff and other fun and games that result in a merry go round of who can extract the most. Past and ongoing contamination problems of honey with unauthorized pesticides and medications. These are activities within the honey industry - and as such are, or should be rectified by the said industry. But taking GMO and the consequences of their presence in an area where the beekeeper has no or little sphere of influence: The EU and other countries have taken a stance (one which I do not wish to enter into debate over in this mail !) resulting in the imposition of importation bans for commodities containing GMO material. Honey from Canada being a prime example - it often containing GMO pollen from Canola (Rape). The loss of the export of this honey reflects on the revenues of beekeepers. There has been no method of reclaiming this financial loss. It, I presume is tough on the beekeepers, Canola is king and all must bow before it. Bow we have and continue to do so. Strange, wheat potentially being allied with Genetically modified material caused an outcry from producers/ commodity dealers etc.. They foresaw an export market loss - and lo and behold, the projects were shelved. Searching for "accidental" contamination of foodstuffs entering the EU etc. reveals a continual entry from US, Canada and Argentina of Genetically modified material. Exports of honey to EU from Canada, as mentioned are banned. Exports have slumped. Who is supplying the EU now? How are EU beekeepers managing with GMO programs, taking into account that here, rape pollen is quoted as being dispersed up to 25 miles from source plant. Maize is often quoted as not being a pollen source for bees - but whilst I was in France it was proven to be a common supply for bees in areas that cultivated it. Maize is a GMO prime crop. What is the future for this type of importation ban? Curious, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 12:44:23 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?Windows-1252?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think Peter you are still not quite getting the idea of Ekobee method of creaming honey. > whereas you produce seed (or starter) from honey with > any size of crystal by cooling it to 10C and then stirring until it has a > creamy fine grain. Is this stirring not a form of grinding? This is not correct. You take 10 % of creamed honey and mix that with 90 % of liquid honey when you make that starter. What is surprising is that you can use any kind of creamed honey to start with. If the original honey has some large crystals there might be some in the final honey, but only very few as most seed crystals are born during mixing at 10 C. Normally one uses the fine honey from previous batches so this happens only in the first time. I personally recommend beginners to buy a jar of honey with small crystals to start with. This stirring is definitely not grindig. I personally do this with drilling machine and a mixing screw. 10 C is not a problem as the seed is not needed in big amounts. 30 kg is well enough for a metric ton. So an old fridge is enough to keep the seed under process. Seed honey is ready to use in 2 – 6 days depending from the honey source. Rape honey is among the fastest ones. As P. O. explained it is the temperature that makes the trick. The colder it is the smaller crystals are born. Under + 10 the seed is more difficult to mix and the process takes longer. Your point about freezing is right. Honey in combs stays liquid much better when frozen, but extracted honey creams almost always. Rape honey normally in 4 – 5 months. Honeys that stay easily in liquid form take longer. > After seeding you then pack it into jars and store these at 5-15C to set, > which you say can take up to 3 weeks. This would give me a problem in the > summer, as it would be difficult to hold large numbers of jars at 5-15C > because I do not have refrigerated stores available. However, by stirring > after seeding for 15 minutes, 5 times a day, I find that the honey is > usually almost set in 3-5 days - regardless of ambient temperature; it is > then bottled and usually sets firm in the jar within 1-2 days. Peter, from your explanation I would say that you honey sets easily. Most likely it has some rape honey in it. This honey sets very fast with ekobee method as well. No temperatures below 18 C are needed, but of course it happens faster in + 14 C. Still I would say that you get the same result in about the same time, but with less work. I have talked and read a lot about creaming honey. Also I have creamed my honey for 20 years. I hold in high esteem the work the Swedes have made when creating the ekobee system. It is the easiest and best system for all beekeepers who pack their honey. Big packers with several tons / day all the year round have other system that might suit better for them, but ekobee is the best for the beekeepers who extract and cream their own honey. I warmly recommend all beekeepers who produce creamed honey to try this system. To try it pays especially well when you do it before buying an expensive special mixing machine to make creamed honey as actually you don’t need one. I am trying to sell mine because ekobee is less work ….. About ekobee method http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/research/krist-e-nf.htm Ari Seppälä Finland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 11:31:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Administrivia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Folks, The amount of spam being submitted to BEE-L these days approaches astronomical proportions. Fortunately for subscribers, the spam gets stopped by the BEE-L Moderators, but it has gotten to be a huge imposition on the BEE-L moderators. The means to address this exist in LISTSERV, by configuring BEE-L so that only members can post to the list. I configured BEE-L thusly about 10 minutes ago. I am not sure what will be the repercussions of this, but am hopeful it will eliminate the SPAM without impeeding the flow of discussion. If you encounter unanticipated problems, please contact me directly so I can invertigate. Sincerely, Aaron Morris BEE-L Owner/Editor/Moderator/Janitor :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:12:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Two-to-One Sugar Syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I have heard many beekeepers recommend feeding >> syrup of a two-to-one ratio in autumn. The exact proportion is not at all important. The idea is simply to dissolve as much sugar into a given amout of water as possible without supersaturating the solution. Since the saturation point of sugar in water varies with temperature, sugar may dissolve nicely, giving a clear solution, at a warm mixing temperature, but precipitate some sugar later, when exposed to colder temps. We buy truckloads of perfectly mixed 2:1 syrup from the factory, and still find that some sugar always precipitates over winter if we have extra and keep some of the syrup in a tank until Spring. If syrup is well mixed, allowed to stand to clarify, and is still clear when fed, and if it is then taken down quickly by bees there should be no problem. However, if the syrup is mixed a thick as possible, using heat, and/or is murky after mixing, and not allowed to clear before distribution to the bees, some precipitation is likely within a faily short time. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:07:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: Creamed Honey In-Reply-To: <002501c4d985$d9f7f400$d3ce87d9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dec 3, 2004, at 5:17 PM, Peter Edwards wrote: > You also state that freezing honey > will produce a fine grain, although it will take years; again, this > does not > agree with anything that I have read or observed, i.e. that freezing > honey > will stop ALL crystallization. > > Hi Peter and all A few years ago I made the mistake of selling all our honey and not keeping any for our own use. A friend and customer told me that if you put it in the freezer it keeps for a long time and is always nice smooth creamed honey when you take it out. I always take our honey first, put it in 2 litre plastic icecream tubs and store it in the freezer. It is almost always nice smooth creamed honey after it thaws and stays that way stored in the cupboard until the container is empty. Twice, in about 20 years, the honey has been liquid when it thaws which then crystalizes normally. I always keep summer honey(sweet clover/basswood) for our use as my wife doesn't like goldenrod/aster honey, and don't know why the freeze creamed method didn't work those two years. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W44N :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:29:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Honey exports to EU and other GMO free areas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter said: It appears that there is a trend of decreasing honey prices at present. In the U.S. a FLOOD of cheap foreign honey has entered the wholesale market driving down prices. Peter said: From a Canadian point of view - it seems a little strange as the crop for 2004 is again reduced when compared to previous years. Your competition is not from U.S. honey but foreign. Packers are simply buying the water white foreign honey on the world market. Peter asks: What is happening in other producing/exporting areas. Many U.S. packers are simply saying they are not buying honey now. Others are tossing out low prices. Store prices remain high even as many packers are using low price foreign honey. Which is good for the small U.S. beekeeper selling in stores. All the packers I have talked to say they will not be the first to lower store prices so perhaps store prices will remain high for awhile but we all know the packer with the low shelf price sells the most honey. Whether he makes the most money is debatable! The market for U.S. local honey and specialty honey remain strong in the U.S. Those packer labels with "product of many foreign countries" helps the smaller beekeeper/packer! A large amount of the 2004 U.S. crop remains unsold as beekeepers say the price will go up after the first of the year. I hope for their sake they are right but suspect the opposite. I have seen those beekeepers turn down prices they only dreamed about a few years ago waiting for a higher price. I am buying supplemental honey myself now and will continue to buy honey until my next crop comes in so I speak from experience. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 06:05:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Subject: Re: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, how long do you have to keep it in the freezer to get the smooth creamed consistency? (West Texas) Mark > Bob Darrell wrote: ... I put it in 2 litre plastic icecream tubs and store it in the freezer. It is almost always nice smooth creamed honey after it thaws and stays that way stored in the cupboard until the container is empty. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 20:39:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: Creamed Honey In-Reply-To: <000d01c4db8b$d6fa9520$34c43745@me> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dec 6, 2004, at 7:05 AM, TxBeeFarmer wrote: > Bob, how long do you have to keep it in the freezer to get the smooth > creamed consistency? > I've never kept track but I suspect that the first container frozen in August comes out at Christmas when the family is home Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W44N :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:53:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: New Primer Pheromone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listening to "As it Happens" on CBC radio tonight, I heard an interview with Zach. Nicely done! allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::