From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:35:53 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1FC748307 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEVNii013404 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0501D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 58394 Lines: 1267 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:44:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: U.S. import & export of bees (was Bummer!!! ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter & All, Peter said: The reason that it was posed in the first place was due to Bob Harrison's comments relating to the apparent limited genetic pool of the Russian lines present in breeders "hands" . Brood viability is a complex issue. short version: I have tried to point out what I consider problems in the Russian program but want the list to know I am very gratful to Dr. Shiminuki, Tom Rinderer and the Baton Rouge Bee lab for the hard work they did. As the Russian bee would still be in Russia without their belief in the project! Many researchers and commercial beekeepers bad mouthed the project from the start *and a few still do* but the bee is the proof of the projects success. The bee is the proof of the Purvis Brothers survivor enhanced bee success. Beekeepers will give the final analisis. To address the above question I quote from the book "Queen Rearing and Bee Breeding" (pg. 187) by Page & Laidlaw: " Computer simulations demonstrated the following: 35-50 breeder queens are needed with random queen selection to maintain at least 85% brood viability for 20 generations" My own opinion is *at least* 50 breeder queens. I must clarify we are talking about a queen breeder selling a *pure as imported from Russia line bee*. If brood viability issues arise in mine or Purvis brothers Russian bees we will simply blend in outside genetics but then the bee can not be called Russian/Russian (as imported) but a Russian hybrid. From the wording of Peter's post I am sure Peter & I are on the same page. If not ask further questions Peter. Peter asks: If the alleles present are of limited diversity, giving rise to an enhanced risk of early inbreeding problems - what is the future for those introducing them into their stocks? Excellent at the start if your stock does not allready have a inbreeding problem. The problem with the Russian line *in my opinion* is the hybrid Russian does not display the varroa tollerance of the bee as imported from my research. The bee lab culled many queens which were imported as they did not many times display varroa tolerance (among other things) in Baton Rouge they had (according to those doing the Russia selection) in Russia. Was the Russia selection process flawed ? Was the selection based on the lowest mite drop maybe not the best way to find the best varroa tolerant bee as suggested by researchers at the ABF Reno convention AND by Dee Lusby? Were some of the Russian import queens dispatched perhaps the better survivor bee? Dann Purvis and myself ponder the question. Peter asks: Are individuals introducing genetic material, something that will not have the possibility of being refreshed in the future by purchases of good genetic stock. I think I have explained as best in can in a short post above. The answer is and always has been for the *queen breeder* to bring in outside genetics if he/she sees a brood viability problem caused by inbreeding from a narrow gene pool. Peter asks: Am I correct in thinking that this developmental effort may be likened to designing of a car, then building a prototype, selling a few models, followed by the manufacturer then dumping the project and getting rid of any spares. No! See above! Finding the right genetic combination is not easy but a good queen breeder would not drop the Russian line because of a narror gene pool but produce the best hybrid to take the Russian/Russian place. I must add I am not a professional queen breeder like my friend Dann Purvis. I believe I have got the above correct but not an expert by any manner. I am also not an expert on beekeeping although many try to use the term when introducing me at times. Sincerely, Bob Harrison beekeeper " What we do not know is so vast it makes what we do know seem absurd" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:29:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "D. Murrell" Subject: Re: recycling comb Hi Guys, I have seen bees tear down old comb walls in standard equipment. But they never did remove much of the combs midrib. I just don't have much experience with feral hive comb. My generalization concerning 'recycling' was based on colony lifespan rather than on the bee's comb building behavior. Researchers at the Tuscon bee lab watched feral colonies before and after the mites. Most colonies survived about 3 years before the mites and about half span that after mites. Queen studies done before the mites, by Szabo in Canada, detailed queen longevity. Most were gone at the end of two seasons and almost all were gone by the end of three. So, at about three years most colonies face a crisis, which is probably queen related. And a number of those colonies fail to recover. Most of the comb in these failed colonies would be recycled, by moths, racoons, etc, even in Wyoming. Or maybe especially in Wyoming with all its starving critters :>) Regards Dennis :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:01:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: advanced bee breeding (was U.S. import MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I welcome researchers opinions (which could differ from mine) on the following which is taking the subject into the realm of advance bee breeding. I said: The answer is and always has been for the *queen breeder* to bring in outside genetics if he/she sees a brood viability problem caused by inbreeding from a narrow gene pool. Low brood viability can *also* be caused by inadequate mating. Inadequate mating increase the risk of a genetic match at the sex locus, which leads to a pepper shot low brood viability pattern. The reason *in my opinion* a serious bee breeding program needs instrumental insemination ( II ) using the principal of multiple inseminations rather than singly inseminated. Determining if the brood viability problem is from inadequate mating or a genetic problem is impossible to determine *in my opinion* unless you are using II and *know* the queen was mated properly *with multiple inseminations*. In an open mating scenario you can not *in my opinion* be sure the shotgun brood pattern is from a genetic problem and not caused by inadequate mating. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:26:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Brood viability is a complex issue... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Brood viability is a complex issue... > " Computer simulations demonstrated the following: 35-50 breeder queens > are > needed with random queen selection to maintain at least 85% brood > viability > for 20 generations" Is this not half of what we need to know to understand what he is really saying? What percentage of queens would exhibit that 85% viability? All, some, or only a few? And how important is brood viability in *breeders* used for research? For crossing? Even for commercial use, in some cases? > My own opinion is *at least* 50 breeder queens. I must clarify we are > talking about a queen breeder selling a *pure as imported from Russia line > bee*. I understand that, in some idealistic way, many people dreamed that the Russian bee would be used commercially as a totally pure strain. That is a lofty goal, but in the real world, reaching it was never very probable. If such a thing happened, IMO, it would be a fluke. The future success and utility of the stock was never at all clear, even from the outset. It was a gamble, and budgets for gambles are limited. I would guess that costs and complexity of such a project curve up with the square of the number or lines maintained in the project, not linearly with the number itself, so some compromise was necessary. It is a simple matter of estimating probabilities and economics -- which is never a simple matter, or exempt from second-guessing -- or criticism in hindsight. Moreover, the understanding has been with us, from the start, that further additions to the stock are possible at any time, if justified by earlier results. It is also clear that future additions might be better selected, after the desirable characteristics have been identified in the original importation. And, since selection techniques are improving at a fantastic pace -- more and more, genes and associated traits can be easily matched -- who knows, maybe the next addition will be from bees currently in the USA -- or some other continent? What is the ultimate use of the Russian bee? Is it to be used only as a pure strain, or mainly as a source of selected, superior, and perhaps new, characteristics for existing and future commercial stocks? Just as the SMR stock is - IMO - a 'demo' bee, and has been blended into other lines, or used a source of new ideas, the Russian bee is - IMO -really a 'demo' bee, and will ultimately be used primarily as a source of new characteristics for commercial stock. Interestingly, however, the lab's presentations that I have seen always dealt with the pure stock and its suitability for various purposes. Little has been presented in these talks about the crosses, other than that crosses they have worked with don't stand up to varroa as well as hoped. That is understandable, due to their focus, but - IMO - gives a false impression that the project is either successful -- if the Russian is adopted widely in a pure form -- or a failure if it is not, and I think that is not a fair conclusion. Things are never that black and white. > The problem with the Russian line *in my opinion* is the hybrid > Russian does not display the varroa tollerance of the bee as imported from > my research. The bee lab culled many queens which were imported as they > did > not many times display varroa tolerance (among other things) in Baton > Rouge > they had (according to those doing the Russia selection) in Russia. Was > the > Russia selection process flawed ? Was the selection based on the lowest > mite > drop maybe not the best way to find the best varroa tolerant bee as > suggested by researchers at the ABF Reno convention AND by Dee Lusby? I think that the selection process was a little more sophisticated than that, since I understand that the entire mite load in the colony was carefully analyzed, including mites in brood. Whether all the decisons were correct is always open to speculation. People work with what they see and what they have, and we are always smarter at the end of the day than going in. Sometimes we beat ourselves up in retrospect over what we learn along the way. I suspect the lab is feeling a little chagrined about SMR turning out to be 'simply' a special form of HYG. It was under everyone's nose all the time, but was missed until now. That's science. But, at least now we now know, and can use that fact. Sometimes researchers on differing projects converge to a solution. > Were some of the Russian import queens dispatched perhaps > the better survivor bee? We'll never know, and dwelling on the idea is - IMO - of limited usefulness. Decisions have to be made, and discards are an inevitable part of the process. One thing I learned as a carpenter was that any project is always producing scrap. Saving scrap is tempting, but there is a cost in keeping it around. More scrap is being produced all the time, howver, and all that saved up scrap material *never* gets used. > " What we do not know is so vast it makes what we do know seem absurd" True, but we have to make decisions using what we think we know now. BTW, if people would go to their Options | Send tab in their email software, and check the "Plain text" box under "Mail sending format", then replies would be much easier to make, and for all of us to read, since most software removes confusing formatting and inserts ">"s in quotes in plain text replies. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:19:09 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: recycling comb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, guys, I did not say that wax moths were not present here in Upstate NY, I said 'they were not a problem'. Roger Morris, formerly chief honcho for beekeeping at Cornell, maintained that no larvae, eggs, or adults could survive over the winter in an unheated area in Ithaca, NY. Ithaca winters are considerably warmer than here. Roger maintained that all wax moths in Ithaca came north in the summer. Either by natural means or, more likely, by migratory beekeepers. Roger did not make statements likely, so I presume he has good basis for these statements, but I have always doubted them. Nonetheless, I use July 1 for a date when the first wax moths will be seen and I know others that do likewise. That gives them July, August and most of September. Not a really long time. I have never found a dead hive fully infested with wax moths and, unfortunately, because of Varroa I have seen my full share of dead and empty hives in late August and September. I also agree with the two observations, (1) I have never seen feral comb as dark as that I have seen in the hives of commercial beekeepers (I was an inspector for a time), (2) many feral hives die off and the cavities and comb are reestablished by swarms. But I was in beekeeping for 20+ years before Varroa. The questions remain...is it accurate that feral comb is recycled regularly; why don't we see real black comb in feral colonies; if the recycling goes on 'naturally', what is the mechanism and why doesn't it occur in beekeeper hives? -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:18:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: recycling comb Hi Lloyd: This morning I received a private email from someone, unidentified, who lives in the vicinity of my father. The message stated about the same as what you wrote--wax moths are not a problem. I certainly don't wish to get into a long drawn out argument over it, but what I will say is that unattended stored comb on my father's small farm in upstate N.Y. gets destroyed by moths, and I'd call that a problem. :>) Are you going to be at the SABA conference in March? Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:51:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Waggle Subject: Re: recycling comb ...The questions remain...is it accurate that feral > comb is recycled > regularly; why don't we see real black comb in feral > colonies; if the > recycling goes on 'naturally', what is the mechanism > and why doesn't > it occur in beekeeper hives? > Hello, I find black comb in feral colonies all the time. Heres one example of a feral with black comb on the TB-Guy's site: http://wind.prohosting.com/tbhguy/bee/joesw.htm IMO, the reason why not many ferals are found with black comb is because many feral colonies fail before 3 years time and do not have a chance to mature. This colony on the link above was found to be in superb state of health, and the homeowners verified that it had been in the wall throughout the great PA colony crashes of 95-96. Note the vast 'open broodnest' area, probably the greater reason for the health of a colony rather than new comb theory, most mature feral colonies I find generally have an open brood nest. This colony also happens to be the genetic source for some impressive allogrooming coming forward in my bees. I must also say that I was 'very impressed' at the homeowners knowledge of honeybees from watching their activity and behavior for over 10 years,,, I believe every homeowner should have a colony of bees in the wall to watch and learn! Some natural mechanisms might be mice chewing up the comb below during winter while the bees are clustered above, happens all the time in domestic beekeeping. Also, sick colonies with dwindling numbers may retreat to a small portion of the nest that they can manage to protect and maintain brood rearing, while wax moth and other scavengers move in to destroy the uninhabited diseased comb in the process. This mechanism would probably occur naturally in domestic colonies if the beekeeper failed to intervene when things start to take a natural course. Joe Waggle PA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:22:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Incoming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought I'd pass this on, FWIW --- Morning Allen. I have had quite a little contact from people that were either at one or both meetings earlier this month. Also had a call from a honey importer looking to pedal bottled China honey. As near as I can gather there have been container ships loaded or will be loaded in the not so near future with China & American blended bottled honey. It also was explained to me that our China friends have been working hard at setting up a network of across North America to sell there bottled product over here. This guy was very bold when I asked him as how in the devil they though this was going to work & how can they label this stuff as having American honey in the container. I was told that China has been purchasing some American honey for the past few years. And it is just as easy to bottle the 1 oz. of American honey per 5 pound container over in China as it is done over here by some of the packers only a lot cheaper. I inquired about the taste & what not, & was assured that the honey was very nice colored & had good taste. I could not get a price or as to what size containers were being shipped for sure. Maybe I asked too many questions. I have had this type of call from importers in the past few years but I don't remember ever getting this much detail from any of the callers in the past. So I called one of my queen breeders from California to check this story out. He tells me that he has seen bottles of packed in China honey starting to show up in the southern part of the state. He also told me it was very cheaply priced. I guess it was just a matter of time before the little China men pulled this deal on the honey packers. We all knew it was only time before it happened. Went in to a local supermarket chain here in the city to check the honey prices on the shelf as a usually do once a month or so. I do this because one of the 5 brands on the shelf is packed by a nearby local packer that buys our honey crop. I know what we sold our crop for, & I have a real good idea were the store brand label is packaged at -- & I know what they have been paying for honey in the last 3 or 4 months. His 5 pound container is priced 93 cents higher than the store brand's 3 pound container. The store manager has given him extra space as his product sells very well & is priced right. I tasted the store brand. Looked good but, what crap for taste! Next hot item seems to be the Cargill " Honey Replacement " product they have come out with. Some time back I was told that corn syrup sales to beekeepers accounted for up to 20% of the yearly sales for many of the HFCS people. As this gent explained to me is he & others have called there syrup brokers & warned them that there next load of bee feed syrup & from this point forward had better not come out of a Cargill plant or one that Cargill has there fingers in. Just that simple Allen. Why should we support them when they turn around & cut our throat????????????? Speaking of the China I understand that a small group of American beekeepers have seen fit to undermine one of their fellow beekeepers by importing plastic queen cell cup & plastic cages. I find it strange that a man spends the last 20 years of his life in perfection of this plastic business in order to make life easier for American queen breeders & to raise a better queen. ...And what happens someone thinks he is making a couple of pennies too much for his thousands he has invested, so what do they do, but turn around & run to a country that is all but cutting the legs out from under us beekeepers, support them & all but kill the guy who invented the entire deal. I guess it's all about greed Allen, or maybe hate would be a better word. Last item that also seems to be on ever ones mind is that Canada & the USA need to have our governments establish what the word " HONEY " is or means for the entire food industry. Until this is done, all the beekeeper is doing is spinning there wheels. Not a lot of good news lately in this business Allen, maybe it's a good thing you got out when you did! See Ya. --- Yes, I think we did sell at a good time, but when pollination cut back, we realized that we either invest more -- $250,000 or more -- to get our plant up to date, or get out. Due to age, we got out. Beekeeping is a good way of life and I miss it. Beekeepers will stick with it as long as they can, then a bit longer. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:40:18 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Greed ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "I guess it's all about greed Allen, or maybe hate would be a better word." One of the larger west coast packers used to have difficulty getting enough Ross Rounds to satisfy his customers. Such difficulty, in fact, that at one point he gave Tom Ross the largest equipment order he (Tom) had ever had, so the packer could 'give' it to beekeepers willing to produce Ross Rounds for him! Well, about 5 years ago a certain beekeeper was finishing his order for this guy for many thousand Ross Round sections. Guy calls him up, says "I got stuck with an entire container of Ross Round sections produced in China, and can't take what I have ordered." Explained that he (West Coast Packer) thought he was ordering a few hundred to see what they looked like, the guy didn't speak English well, and the packer ended up with 50,000! Well, the sections got sold; they always do. The West Coast Packer can't find a source to buy any more. Calls me every year, and I tell him the large producers, but they won't deal with him. I got a few sections. Of course, the Chinese copied our equipment. Did a pretty good job at it. Finished sections looked real good, but the taste was strange. Not sure why it hasn't continued to be imported, but I think I'd know it if it were. I thank the American distributors/dealers for not buying the frames, rings, and covers as I am sure it has been offered to them. I am in the plastics business. The JZBZ stuff is priced very modestly. Can't figure why some breeder would be interested in saving pennies. Don't they realize that the result could be that JZBZ might not be available at any price? How would they like to be dependent on China? I can tell you I would personally shudder to think of making the investment in molds that these guys have done. On the other hand, why would someone import a premium product like comb honey from China? Don't they worry about the consumer finding out? Why won't we (beekeepers, packers, etc.) get out there and support country of origin labeling and promotion? A rhetorical question... -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:58:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Re: U.S. import & export of bees (was Bummer!!! ) Comments: cc: geoffrey@uoguelph.ca In-Reply-To: <000701c50091$02289880$51bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bob Harrison Said: Was the selection based on the lowest mite drop maybe not the best way to find the best varroa tolerant bee as suggested by researchers at the ABF Reno convention AND by Dee Lusby? Answer: Hello Bob, I was the research scientist who reported about varroa tolerance of Russian bees at the ABF. Although I reported in details only one trait; the mite drop in 24 h, my student Geoff Wilson studied several traits. The presentation was short, 15 min including discussion. Therefore, I had to give only high lights of the results. I used the mite drop in 24 h because this trait has significant correlation with total number of mites on bees, mites in brood and total mites in a washed sample of 300 bees. In fact Geoff looked at several traits; Russian bee population dynamics, Varroa population dynamics, mite growth rates, mite infestation in brood vs mites on bees, hygienic, grooming, post capping period, and slow mite reproduction. He also looked at honey production, tracheal mite resistance, wintering and percentage of acceptance of introduced queens. These traits were studied in Pure Russian bees, Ontario Mite resistant bees, hybrids of Russian queens mated with Ontario drones and Ontario queens mated with Russian drones. The Ontario bees used in this study was that bees developed by me for 6 years when I was in Ontario. An abstract of the results will be published in the American Bee Journal as part of American Bee Conference report. medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:34:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Re: advanced bee breeding (was U.S. import In-Reply-To: <000501c500f7$f1c70000$29bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bob Said: In an open mating scenario you can not *in my opinion* be sure the shotgun brood pattern is from a genetic problem and not caused by inadequate mating. Answer: I would like to make the distinction between inadequate mating and brood viability. Inadequate mating means that queens mated with few drones or queens mated at older age. This mating will produce queens that lay fertilized egg in a poor pattern and they will end up as a drone layers. Brood viability is caused by queens mating to relatives who share part of the genetics in the sex locus. The viability of eggs will depend on how many of these alleles shared. In the case of homogeneity of the sex alleles, the fertilized eggs will hatch and produce diploid drone larvae. These larvae will be cannibalized by adult workers bees as soon as the eggs hatch. This would lead to what is know as shotgun brood pattern. Although you can see a perfect egg laying pattern, when the cells capped, you will find those empty cells scattered in the brood. Dr. Woyke from Poland was able to raise those diploid drones by feeding these larvae in the incubator away from adult bees. He also was able to extract some diploid drone larvae and spread the extract on normal larvae. This would trigger adult bees to cannibalize those normal larvae. It is suggested that a chemical pheromon would be responsible for triggering this mechanism. Therefore, we don't have diploid drones in a bee colony. Please keep in mind, if a sperm was damaged, it will never make it into the egg. Sperms have to swim in the common oviduct of the queen to enter the egg. If they are dead, there is no chance. Of Course any breeding program, we need to watch for inbreeding and how many queens used as foundation for a bee stock. Page and Laidlaw calculated the number of queens needed for stock maintenance for certain number of years. medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:35:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: advanced bee breeding (was U.S. import In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all: Please keep in mind, if a sperm was damaged, it will never make it into the egg. Sperms have to swim in the common oviduct of the queen to enter the egg. If they are dead, there is no chance. Reply: Not that I would want to get something going! No, not me :<) But,...................wasn't there writings published early on in Bee World, concerning the fertilization of eggs, and the fact that the queen lays the egg...........like common regular eggs...and then in the cell she adds sperm after laying the egg, and the workers then, by either leaving the sperm, or cleaning off the sperm that then migrate into the egg, determine whether or not the eggs will become workers or drones????? What is your rational on this POV from early texts? Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Tucson, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrganicBeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:55:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: John Campbell's Funeral Arrangements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Campbell, West Virginia Beekeepers Association Secretary-Treasurer and Newsletter Editor from 1991-2004, passed away on Sat., Jan.22, at The VA Hospital in Clarksburg. John's service to our state organization was invaluable as a pillar of stability during these years. Visting hours are from 2--4 PM and from 6--8 PM on Tuesday, January 25, at Barb(e) and Loar Funeral Home on Main Street (across from Clinic) in Parsons. The Odd Fellows are having a service at the Funeral Home on Tuesday evening at 7:00. The funeral is on Wednesday at 2 PM at the funeral home. John is survived by his wife, Dorothy, and one daughter. Mrs Dorothy Campbell 102 First Street Parsons, WV 26287 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:19:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Upcoming Canadian Meetings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In early February, the major Canadian beekeeping organisations, including CHPA, the Canadian Honey Council, the SBA, and CAPA, plus the packers will be meeting in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Our US friends always make Canadians feel very welcome at the US meetings. I hope we can reciprocate. Everyone who registers is welcome at all the open sessions and the trade show. Saskatoon is a nice town, albeit cool at this time of year and the meetings are always worthwhile. Check out the details on the links from http://www.honeybeeworld.com/cdnmtgs.htm allen More at A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:14:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Waggle Subject: Newly Discovered Nostradamus =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=91Honeybee_Quatrain=92?= Hi All, Here's a facinating news article: http://www.geocities.com/feralhoneybee/ScienceJournalNostradamus.html ===== Joe Waggle ~ Organic Beekeeper, Derry, PA 'Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' "Using humane and holistic beekeeping methods" ~ Small Beekeeping ~ No treatments since 2001 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:03:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: recycling comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lloyd wrote: "Roger Morris, formerly chief honcho for beekeeping at Cornell, maintained that no larvae, eggs, or adults could survive over the winter in an unheated area in Ithaca, NY. Ithaca winters are considerably warmer than here. Roger maintained that all wax moths in Ithaca came north in the summer. Either by natural means or, more likely, by migratory beekeepers. Roger did not make statements likely, so I presume he has good basis for these statements, but I have always doubted them." * * * The preceding statement has a fair number of errors, which I would like to correct. I offer a brief summary of Roger's life. Roger was loved and respected by beekeepers the world over, and the names of the people who studied at his lab read like a Who's Who of U.S. Beekeeping. By the way, it only takes a few hours of below freezing temperature to kill moths and their eggs. Ithaca has months of that, so combs in unheated buildings are cured of infestation rather soon after winter starts. They overwinter in the bee hives, taking up to six months to mature from the eggs. Wax moths have been living with bees for probably millions of years. See _Honey Bee Pests, Predators, and Diseases_, edited by Roger Morse. * * * Roger Morse, University of Cornell apiculturist and educator, spent the majority of his academic career at Cornell university actively campaigning for the advancement of beekeeping. He had a unique gift of communicating the science of entomology to the often harried and hard working beekeepers who had little time to read through technical treatises for the practical solutions they needed. A prolific writer, Morse wrote many texts such as _The Complete Guide to Beekeeping_, considered a definitive book on the subject. He also wrote _The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Beekeeping_ with T. Hooper, _The ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture (40th edition) with Kim Flottun, _A Year in the Beeyard_, _Bees and Beekeeping_, and _Making Mead_, among others, and was a regular contributor to the journal _Bee Culture_ for over 50 years. He entered the graduate school at Cornell in the fall of 1950 and was assistant in apiculture to professor E. J. Dyce, receiving his masters degree in 1953 and his doctorate in 1955. Morse was also a visiting professor at many universities overseas, chaired the entomology department at Cornell from 1986 to 1989, and made many trips to countries such as Africa, South America and the Philippines, teaching beekeepers ways of improving their methods. The Dyce Laboratory for Honey Bee Research, was named after Professor Elton J. Dyce who headed Cornell’s honey bee program from 1947-1966. Professor Dyce is best known for his research on the properties of honey and his patented method for producing creamed honey. The Dyce Method is used by commercial and hobbyists producers of creamed honey throughout the world. Construction of the bee lab was funded from patent royalties and a contribution from the United States Department of Agriculture. The lab opened in 1968 under the direction of Professor Roger A. Morse who headed Cornell’s honey bee program from 1966 until his retirement in 1996. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:06:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Draft protocol on assessment of bee health In-Reply-To: <006001c50312$c3298520$47b85ad1@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following has been taken from the IAHAC web site http://www.apishealth.org/ "The International Apis Health Assessment Committee will be meeting February 23-25, 2005 at the DiSTA-Area Entomologia (Faculty of Agriculture) - to be confirmed - in Bologna, Italy. The purpose of the meeting will be to develop a draft of an international bee health assessment protocol. The protocol is meant to provide a consistent international approach to monitoring and diagnosing bee health problems. Once the protocol has been drafted, it will be validated using case studies from Europe as well as Canada and Argentina. A final report will be written and presented at the next ICPBR meeting in the fall of 2005." It would be interesting to hear from beekeepers who know about this, have been approached to give comment or advice on this project. For those interested in reading the on going conflict over pesticides and how beekeepers are or not being supported in France - http://www.beekeeping.com/ Moving to "New pages" after the home page. See:"Tuerait-on l'abeille une 2eme fois pour sauver Gaucho/Regent TS (excuse the absence of accents!). Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:31:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BBEE-L=5D_Newly_Discovered_Nost?= =?windows-1252?Q?radamus______________=91Hon?= =?windows-1252?Q?eybee_Quatrain=92?= In-Reply-To: <200501260115.j0Q1Feap008493@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Waggle wrote: > Here's a facinating news article: > > http://www.geocities.com/feralhoneybee/ScienceJournalNostradamus.html Too bad, Joe, you did not discover this before the AFC Championship. Would have saved you a lot of pain. My condolences. I am enjoying the moment since these times in a team's history do not last long in the NFL. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:41:18 -0500 Reply-To: lhhubbell@johnstown.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leland & Dorothy Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Beekeeping mentioned on public radio program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There was a report on public radio Tuesday, Jan. 25, on the 'Market Place' program about bees and almond pollination. Talked about colony losses due to mites, the need for bees to polinate almonds, and the prices for pollination. Location was near Modesto, CA. The beekeeper interviewed reported about 30 percent losses since Sept. Had a short comment from the California Almond Board, speaking to the necessity for pollination by bees. Prices quoted were $97 to $100 per hive. I know some of you have commented about almond pollination. I was able to find the program on the web, and get a replay of it. The bee segment was about 7 minutes into the program. Might try http://marketplace.publicradio.org for Jan 25 Leland Hubbell :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:37:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Beekeeping mentioned on public radio program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > There was a report on public radio Tuesday, Jan. 25, on the 'Market > Place' program about bees and almond pollination. The direct url is: http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2005/01/25/PM200501251.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:15:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Muscle It's been a bad winter for me here in California due to the regular stuff as well as another bear attack and, of all things, yellow jackets, which are always pesky, but never as hugely populous as this year. But still, it's nice to have honey and beehives what with the shortage here. I've never had so many desperate farmers call as I've had lately, and the same for those who want local raw honey. A big avocado orchard where for years I've kept the bulk of my hives just switched hands. The deal was that I could keep the hives there all year in return for pollinating in May-June, and it has been nice because of a good winter honey crop. But I got a call yesterday from the new manager. He want bees there from March to July (which is ridiculous due to minimum temperatures for fruit set not being met in the spring) and he wants the right to decide how many hives are to be placed there with virutally no notice given to me. He will decide based on "feeling" whether he needs 60 hives or 400 (for a 100 acre ranch with many young trees). When I told him my hives would be in the almonds until mid March and I don't have the room capacity for more than 150 hives I got a smug talk about this great beekeeper he knows who will be willing to provide the type of services he requires. I've also got more offers to keep small amounts of bees on small orchards in my immediate vicinity than ever, and while it may not be charitable, I'm looking forward to his phone calls once he learns some basic facts of beekeeping in a few months. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 13:04:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Upcoming Canadian Meetings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In early February, the major Canadian beekeeping organisations... will > be meeting in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. >...Check out the details on the links from > http://www.honeybeeworld.com/cdnmtgs.htm Of course there were errors and ommissions. A corrected version is at the above site. I also added the Bee Masters Course, and corrected the calendar as well. Additional details can be found at yesterday's commentary at 'A Beekeeper's Diary'... http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:34:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: recycling comb Comments: To: Lloyd Spear On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:19:09 -0500, Lloyd Spear wrote: Ithaca winters are considerably warmer than here. I assume you are referring to the Albany area. As you can see, Ithaca weather is very similar to Albany. A *little* warmer (2 degrees) in Dec and Jan but nearly the same in Feb and Mar. Not considerably warmer. Average Minimum Temperatures ALBANY, NY DEC 18.2 JAN 11.0 FEB 13.8 MAR 24.5 ITHACA, NY DEC 20.5 JAN 12.9 FEB 13.3 MAR 23.8 pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:31:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Ruzicka Subject: Formic Acid Campaign in the USA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It is important to make 65% formic acid available to beekeepers in the USA. It is important to send your input to the government as well as to the EPA before February 15th, 2005 as there is a decision deadline set on the acid registration for late February. At the American Honey producers association meeting in Tucson, we received a “break” in terms of formic acid supply. The Director of Marketing and sales at Univar USA, had in his younger days two hives, and is sympathetic to the beekeeping industry. He, without immediate commitment, is very interested in producing 65% formic acid for the beekeeping industry in large and small quantities (packaging). This is pending the beekeeping industry ensuring him political support for the exemption of formic acid from the EPA’s rules and obviously your commitment to use the product. Please contact him with your supportive letters and copy him with any resolutions you and the organizations you belong to pass. These resolutions and letters should be sent to your Congressman, Senator, and Secretary of Agriculture. Don’t forget to also send this letter to the EPA and myself. UNIVAR: Ted Worster – Director of Marketing and Sales 11149 Research Blvd. Suite 260 Austin, TX 78759 tedworster@univarusa.com tel: 1-512-346-4569 fax: 1-512-346-6071 Make sure you copy the EPA on your letter. Send it to: Dr Russell JonesChair, Biochemical Classification CommitteeBiopesticides and Pollution Prevention Division (7511 C)9th Floor, Room 910Office of Pesticide ProgramsCrystal City, Crystall Mall 21921 Jefferson Davis HighwayArlington, Virginia 22202Phone: 703-308-5071Email: jones.russell@epa.gov EPA – Biopesticide DivisionAttention: Dr. Sheryl K. Reilly7511CUSEPA HeadquartersAriel Rios Building1200 Pennsylvania Avenue, N. W.Washington, DC 20460Phone: 703-308-8269Email: reilly.sheryl@epa.gov The following is a transcript of the resolutions passed at both national conventions. Numbers 1 and 2 are the demands. 65% dilution has the same heavy metal content as the food grade formic acid. Numbers 3 – 5 are the reasons and justifications; the 2 attachments explain the status and situation of formic acid in the USA. EXAMPLE OF RESOLUTIONS AND TECHNICAL DATA TO BE INCLUDED: 1. Whereas formic acid is an unregulated product commonly available from many sources and used in many applications and whereas there is no monetary incentive for any commercial entity to sponsor the registration of formic acid. Be it resolved that (A - State your organization name, club, association, etc) ask Congress and the Secretary of Agriculture to direct the EPA to release, register, or exempt from registration formic acid in liquid form, at 65% dilution of technical grade formic acid, for use in bee hives. 2. Whereas the US Beekeeping Industry is facing great losses of bee hives, threatening pollination of agricultural crops including almonds and many others, be it resolved that the above actions shall proceed immediately without delay. 3. Whereas the varroa mite acquired full or partial resistance against man mad pesticides - organo-phosphates like coumaphose, and phyrenoids like fluvalinate and amitraz - that no longer work, and the other known materials and products including tymol formulations, oxalic acid, sucrocide, etc are either not registered, unavailable, or unpractical in use. Whereas all of the above pesticides act only against the Varroa mite, be it resolved that (A) encourages and endorses the use of formic acid, a natural substance capable of controlling parasitic mites including Varroa destructor, the Tracheal mite, and diseases that the mite can transfer, and for the control of bacterial, viral, and fungal disease like Chalk brood, Nosema, and the Kashmir virus, and as a control and repellant for the Lesser wax moth and Small hive beetle. 4. Whereas the man made pesticides and other substances that can control the mite can cause contamination and residues in beehives. Be it resolved that (A) endorses the use of formic acid as both the EPA and FDA exempt formic acid from tolerance studies. Formic acid is a naturally occurring substance found in many plants and foods, including honey. Evaporation methods used with formic acid release only miniscule amounts of acid into the hive, which do not cause dietary concerns. 5. Whereas treatments with formic acid must be adjusted to local weather conditions, hive sizes, equipment, and colony strength, no one particular method or final product will suffice and will work in all of these many circumstances. Be it resolved that only the active material, as stated above should be released, registered, or be exempt from registration, and the application of such active material should be left up to the beekeeper to choose from many commonly known application methods used presently around the world, including the USA, observing the safety practices commonly used in handling acids including transport in government approved containers shall provide the safest solution and shall be at the beekeepers risk thus removing any liability from the government, regulatory agency, and supplier of the active material. If we all pitch in we shall succeed. Yours truly, Bill Ruzicka 2910 Glenmore Road North Kelowna, British Columbia, CANADA V1V 2B6 Tel: 1-250-762-8156 Fax: 1-250-763-1206 e: Bill Ruzicka - billruzicka@mitegone.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::