From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:38:20 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-80.5 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,DEAR_SOMETHING,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4499E48FBA for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEFvLe013111 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0502C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Status: RO Content-Length: 123150 Lines: 2687 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:54:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Our silver bullet for Varroa? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In response to David Kraus' request for elaboration on fungal control for varroa mites, Mike Stoops submitted an article from "Copyright © Golden Harvest Organics LLC, 1997-2005. All rights reserved unless otherwise attributed." The copyrighted material can be viewed at: > http://www.ghorganics.com/Saving%20Bees%20Fungus%20Found%20To%20Attack%20Var roa%20Mites.htm < Watch the word wrap on the url. It should be all one line and contain all the characters between the carets > url <. The line wrap will split the url into two (or more?) parts. Readers are forewarned that they must copy and paste the parts into their browser to arrive at the desired destination. Aaron Morris, CMA Copyright Protector :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:53:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Latest Mite Treatment Device MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I would like to see a video of this beast operating. It's obviously > smart and might be self propelled? Feet could be much better, in > rough terrain, than wheels :>) Any additional info Allen? I have described it in a bit more detail at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2005/diary021005.htm Scroll to Monday 14 February 2005, where the other side is shown, as well. (We had to walk around to take the second photo, though because it still ignores voice commands). As I say, the electronics are from a well-know manufacturer's standard equipment, and I expect that, after some testing, and with their co-operation, it may well come into production before too long. There *is* one new wrinkle with this pre-melting approach, I'm told, though, and that is the fact that melting oxalic dihydrate in a closed prechamber creates pressure, perhaps from the H20 component, or maybe just heat expansion? I was not told, so I don't know. 200 psi was mentioned. This is serious pressure, especially for concentrated acid, and could be resonably regarded as hazardlous unless there is a way to vent it, or absorb it safely. Work is underway to deal with that problem, nonetheless, this unit is promising and looks workable. So, don't try this at home, kids -- unless you happen to be a rocket surgeon. Yet, anyhow. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:37:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Latest Mite Treatment Device In-Reply-To: <200502141918.j1EJ8abX025962@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to all. Regarding the developments that are taking place at the present. Oxalic acid delivery being "perfected" and Canadian Honey council attempting to get the molecule registered here in Canada, whilst down in the States, a fungicide potentially having a viable kill rate. It to being perfected. Is the latter going to render O.A. to the status of "good one, but not now needed" when varroa treatment is being dealt with ? Comments welcome. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:14:16 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Latest Mite Treatment Device In-Reply-To: <4212BFDE.9020908@mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Peter Dillon wrote: Is the latter going to render O.A. to the status of "good one, but not now needed" when varroa treatment is being dealt with ? I "certainly" hope so. According to the representative who made comments at the spring meeting of the Alabama Beekeepers' Association about the fungicide treatment, all that the beekeeper would need to do is drop a tablet of this stuff down the hole of the inner cover and the hive is treated, for a good long time since the infective organisim is spread around the hive and is viable for quite a while. It also would proliferate as it kills varroa and is smeared around the hive by the bees. Supposedly the cost would be less than $2.00 a pill. Time and money savings??? It would be nice. I'll wait to see it on the market. Mike in lower Alabama __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:20:12 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?us-ascii?Q?Dieter_Schurer?= Subject: What is a Super Varroa In-Reply-To: <4212BFDE.9020908@mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some time ago there was a big discussion on the subject of the super varroa. But the question how that super varroa behaves and what it is, was never answered. I therefore would like to renew these questions: 1. What is this super varroa? 2. Where did it appear and in what region was it active? 3. What was the treatment against this mite? 4. Has this mite been viewed by any research institute? regards, dieter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:41:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mark Payton Subject: One day hive move? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I keep a couple of hives in the fairly large back yard of a friend of mine. His son is getting married this summer and they will have the reception in the back yard. He is concerned about having bees around such a large group of people and would like me to move the hives, if only for a short period. Is this the best option? Should I plan to move the hives for a few days or is there a way to simply and safely enclose the hive on the day of the reception to keep the bees in. As for move options, I could (possibly) move the hive into a neighboring yard for the short run, or I could move them a considerable distance away. The wedding is in mid-summer, but I don't know if there is likely to be a flow at that time or not here in Vermont. Thanks, Mark Payton :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:35:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Latest Mite Treatment Device MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The recent discussion about Metarhizium anisopliae should be read keeping in mind that, "if it sounds too good to be true, ..." I am not doubting what Mike heard at the Alabama Beekeepers' Association meeting, but I wonder who was presenting. I have not heard of the "drop a pill" treatment. So far I have only read about strip applications. And admittedly I have not heard or read it all. However, my understanding is that Metarhizium anisopliae hasn't been shown to be a consistent product. Some data shows great promise, but others have had problems verifying/reproducing the results. I would not advise beekeepers to expect a product on the market as soon as this summer. In the US we're still waiting for the approved formic acid product promised for release by 1989! As far as Peter's question if Metarhizium anisopliae will relegate OA to "good one, but not now needed", my response is hopefully some day, but until such time keep the other tools handy. If one is trying to budget, weighing the expense of the monster evaporator pictured on Allen's page (what's the cost of that contraption anyway?) vs. the forecast of a $2 pill to innoculate a hive with Metarhizium anisopliae, I'd guess at this point in time that the evaporator is a bird in the hand. And even that is not true. OA still falls into the category of "home remedy", not approved for use in honey bee colonies. So, beekeeper beware. I hope Metarhizium anisopliae will prove to be effective and available. However, the best perspective I have seen was posted on BEE-L by Mike Griggs last October (the last time the topic came up). Check out: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0410D&L=bee-l&P=R3867 Beware of word wrap on the url! Will Metarhizium anisopliae supplant Oxalic Acid? Doubtful. In my country, neither are options. Hopefully they will become available, hopefully sooner than later. In the meantime, I'm assembling shallow frames to put in my deep bodies with the intent of cutting the capped drone brood 3 or 4 times a season. It's sanctioned, it's effective, and test data is reproducable. Stay tuned for further developments. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:52:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Latest Mite Treatment Device In-Reply-To: <63D883CB0A1B204EB053673DD882CB5309BF78FD@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > However, my understanding is that Metarhizium anisopliae hasn't been shown > to be a consistent product. Some data shows great promise, but others have > had problems verifying/reproducing the results. Google Metarhizium anisopliae and you will find that is not a single fungus but there are many variants that are effective against specific "pests". Based on pesticide regulations for several of the variants, it appears some would be effective in killing bees, much less mites. So, as Aaron notes, best to wait and see what shakes out from this. Plus, do not attempt this at home. You could kill all your bees. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:52:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Varroa and "Green Muscle" ?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The recent discussion about Metarhizium anisopliae should be read keeping in > mind that, "if it sounds too good to be true, ..." Well it seems that it may be very good and true, for the --- Biological Control of Locusts and Grasshopper http://www.lubilosa.org/ Peter (Quebec) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:26:41 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: destroying drone cells as Varroa control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron said "I'm assembling shallow frames to put in my deep bodies with the intent of cutting the capped drone brood 3 or 4 times a season. It's sanctioned, it's effective, and test data is reproducable." Yes, presumably results from a multi-year test are about to be published and are very positive. That is, a procedure to destroy drones in capped cells 3-4 times a year (in the Northeast) and therefore destroy varroa inside the cells. While waiting for publication the preliminary word is that the data will show a substantial drop in fall Varroa counts compared to controls. But...why not use drone foundation? It seems to me that is a lot more efficient vis a vis making the bees constantly draw more cells. The only downside is using frames with drone foundation requires freezer space, compared to just cutting the drone cells from the frames. Nonetheless, in 2004 I finished my 3rd year of freezing sealed drone cells. I use 1 frame per hive and can get up to 5 full sealed frames per hive a year. I am amazed at how long (in the fall) the queen will lay in these if they are made available. I have not run with controls, but my observation is that when drone brood is regularly frozen there are far fewer Varroa in the fall. This makes sense, as by freezing in April and May the small spring Varroa population is not allowed to quickly expand. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:35:39 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: One Day Hive Move Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my opinion, not a very good idea: 1. If you only move for 'one day', you would have to either move at night or you would leave behind all the foraging force, which would be very likely to bother the guests. Are you prepared to pick up the hive and move at night? 2. If you move for a longer period, say two weeks before the reception, you would still lose the foragers but they would not be likely to bother the guests. 3. In mid-summer you are likely to have a flow on in Vermont. But difficult to say for sure. 4. Why not close them up? Using 1/8" hardware cloth, make up a screened cover and make a similar cover to block the entrance. Fasten them down with nails the night before. DO NOT PUT A COVER OVER THE SCREENED TOP. If it rains, so what? If you put a cover on you might smother the bees if it is a really hot day. When the reception is over, take the covers off. The bees will be nasty, but you can easily handle that by putting some 1:1 sugar water in a sprinkler can and dosing the bees with at least a gallon immediately before you remove the cover. Don't worry, you won't drown them. Good luck, -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:48:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: destroying drone cells as Varroa control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lloyd asks: > But...why not use drone foundation? Expense, time and freezer space. Drone frames are 'spensive! Furthermore, with a shallow frame, approximately a third of the space that would be occupied by a deep frame is left for the bees' use. Freezing requires two trips, one to take out, one to replace. Admittedly, if one has a large enough supply of drone brood, the one taken out could be replaced with one already on hand. But then one must have an even larger supply of drone frames. And freezer space is a constraint. My freezer space is reserved for Ross Rounds! Aaron Morris - thinking there's more than one way to trap drones! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:38:09 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: The Bee and the Climate In-Reply-To: <63D883CB0A1B204EB053673DD882CB5309BF78FD@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Bee-L members, As you probably know, today is the first day of the Kyoto protocol. We all know every beekeeping is local, namely every beekeeping is climate dependant. In the North, we clearly take advantage of our climate to limit or to protect our bees from some pests and diseases. Yet it is now a conscensus in the scientific community that not only climate change because of anthropogenic GHG emissions will happen but also has already started. It is too late to avoid climate change and we have to adapt. Flora, precipitation, seasons dates will be slightly but surely modified. Two weeks in the spring, one week in the autumn make quite a difference for us, doesn't it ? I do not know how much of you will still be there in 2030 or 2050 but if Allah, Buddha and God want I guess I will, and my children too. If I understood well, nine of the warmest years (and dry for some) were that last decade. So, I wonder if climate change assessment on the bees and beekeeping industry has been performed by councils and associations. How you, beekeepers in the front line of environemental impacts, feel with regard to this issue. Hervé www.emelys.com Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:21:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Open feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have two questions. The first is a repeat: Does anybody know the long term resistance of the Russian against the varroa? Anybody,anywhere? I dont recall any hard responses at this questions first submittal. #2 I am endeavoring to open feed bees on sugar water (I got a great deal on a load of cane sugar) Aside from the drowning issues-which i have got a fairly workable solution it seems at this time-does anybody know of any potentail pitfalls? I am endeavoring to not let the syrup stay out over a week at the time-less in warmer weather-say 3 days. Thanks John Horton :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:40:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Open feeding In-Reply-To: <000701c5145c$aa3ae3a0$17e94cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Long term resistance is 18 mo in south Louisiana it is longer in north Mississippi 4 years or more. #2 do not feed next to the yard of bees put your feeder at least 100 feet from the hives so as not them starting to rob each other out. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 298 6261 John & Christy Horton wrote: > > Does anybody know the long term resistance of the Russian against the > varroa? > > > > #2 > I am endeavoring to open feed bees on sugar water > John Horton > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:54:38 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: destroying drone cells as Varroa control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does this select for varroa mites that reproduce in worker cells? If not, why? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:59:23 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: One Day Hive Move MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would shut them in, but use a screened floor, rather than a screened top, and I would also put a cover over to keep them as dark as possible without restricting airflow. An open screened top will result in many bees trying to fly up through it towards the light and with a strong hive they could block the screen and suffocate the hive. Give plenty of water. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:26:14 -0500 Reply-To: Kate Henderson Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kate Henderson Subject: BeeL One Day Hive Move We had a similar scenario a number of years ago. I put some snow fence temporarily around my hives several days ahead. This kept the bees flying straight up and down to to hives( and curious on lookers at a safe distance). Our reception/picnic area was only 25 feet away. We had no problems with the bees. *** Kate Henderson Sheepy Valley Farm kate@sheepyvalley.com www.sheepyvalley.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:08:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Open feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I open feed in the fall. Less than 100ft. from the hives. I feed approx. 20kg. (sugar wt.) per colony in barrels with straw as a float. I put 2 pieces of wood on top of the barrel to support the lid, enough to give bees access and the lid stops rain getting in. The bees take it down in 3 - 4 days. If there are farm animals then you should secure the lid to stop access - dead cows cost money (less in Canada!). You will feed other insects but your bees will get most of it. Folks say that you will spread disease by this method, probable no more than drifting, robbing, blowing or making nucs etc. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Christy Horton" > #2 > I am endeavoring to open feed bees on sugar water (I got a great deal on a > load of cane sugar) > Aside from the drowning issues-which i have got a fairly workable solution > it seems at this time-does anybody know of any potentail pitfalls? > I am endeavoring to not let the syrup stay out over a week at the time-less > in warmer weather-say 3 days. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:28:41 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: One Day Hive Move In-Reply-To: <00b001c51472$e56d4ce0$71b187d9@oemcomputer> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >An open screened top will result in many bees trying >to fly up through it towards the light and with a strong hive they could >block the screen and suffocate the hive. > I have experienced this resulting in total extinction of a hive in about an hour of travel time in the back of my pickup. Try another method, please. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:11:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Open feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks much for your replys Peter and Charlie! Its a reassurance to know others have traveled a road before getting on it. Peter, i would follow one up w you. You said you put straw in... 1) Does it make any difference what kind of straw? 2)About how much do you put in? 3) About how much bee loss do you get? I have a "screen gasketed" contraption i am working on that I do have some losses on-they tend to get caught "out" after seemingly overindulging(esp in colder weather) and cant fly, also a few drown,(I am still perfecting it and cutting my losses every iteration). I hope the straw is better. Any comments are appreciated. Thanks again and God bless you both. John Horton :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 01:27:44 -0500 Reply-To: jkriebel@speakeasy.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jonathan Kriebel Organization: Veritec, Ltd Subject: Dead hives and Wax Moths. In-Reply-To: <00af01c51472$e4e705e0$71b187d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I found a bunch of starved-out hives when putting the candy boards on. (Obviously too late). I was wondering, in order to keep the WM from trashing them , should I bring them in and use the Sulfur Burner on them, use the BT that I have (the right kind for WM). Or close them up in place, use the BT on them? This was my screw-up I believe, not so much the failure of the hives. I am getting a few packages, just trying to nail down where. I was going to start the packages initially on Foundation, then throw the drawn HB on. We have no disease here (excepting the mites), and do not use prophylactic anything...so the boxes are 'clean.' Lots o' bees head first in the cells...crap. Boxes are already closed up against robbers. Jonathan B. Kriebel Das Sauen Õhr Farm 3229 Zepp Rd. Green Lane, PA 18054-2357 Telephone: (610) 864-8581 Facsimile: (215) 234-8573 jbkriebel@speakeasy.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:19:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anne Frey Subject: Seminar March 12 in Albany NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You are invited to yet another fabulous S.A.B.A. (Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association) seminar! Saturday March 12,2005 9:00 A.M. - 4:30 P.M. In Lecture Center One, SUNY Uptown Campus (University at Albany), Washington Ave., Albany NY (Same place as in 2003, 2004). Speakers: Dr. Dewey Caron, Professor of Entomology at the University of Delaware, Dr. Thomas Seeley, Assistant Professor of Neurobiology and Behavior at Cornell University and … Mr. Dennis VanEnglesdorp, PA's Acting State Apiarist. Topics: Dewey Caron: Determining Varroa mite thresholds, and Everything you wanted to know about swarming; Tom Seeley: The thirst of a hive: how a honey bee colony controls its water intake, and Plastic frames and foundation: good for the beekeeper, but good for the bees?; Dennis VanEnglesdorp: Varroa mites: in the hive, in the apiary, and in the state, and Beekeeping in the 21st Century. Cost: $25 per person, or $40 per couple. Includes refreshment breaks. (Lunch is available nearby.) Walk-ins are welcome. (Add $5 per walk-in to regular cost.) Presentations run consecutively. Raffles follow. Hotel: A “block” of discounted rooms is reserved for March 11 at the Marriott Fairfield Inn, just across Washington Ave. from the seminar. Please call by February 11 and mention "beekeepers" to get the discount. $79 + $11.06 tax = $90.06 for non-smoking room with 2 queen size beds (regularly $95 + tax). Hotel has a pool and complimentary Continental breakfast. Marriott Fairfield 518-435-1800, #1383 Washington Ave., Albany, NY 12206 We will have an informal dinner on Friday March 11 with the speakers. (Attendance at dinner will require a $30 deposit per diner.) Please send deposit with your seminar payment. Further details: Anne Frey, 518-895-8744 or SABAseminar@yahoo.com To register, mail payment made out to "SABA" by March 1st with your name, address, email and phone # to SABA, C/o Anne Frey 4808 Skyline Dr. Delanson NY 12053-3932. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:20:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Parasites Attacking Oregon Bee Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another AP story on AOL News http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050214153709990003 Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:44:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Subject: Re: Dead hives and Wax Moths. Comments: To: jkriebel@SPEAKEASY.NET In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I wouldn't worrry about wax moths. In a Pennsylvania winter they are dead, including the eggs. They won't be a problem until hot weather comes, and maybe not even then, depending on where they are reintroduced from. They don't survive winter at your latitude, except perhaps in a warm storage place for combs. Otherwise they have to fly back from the south, or be brought back by beekeeper migration. I'd check them carefully for AFB scale, then save and use them for the spring packages. Unless there was a pesticide hit (that weakened or killed the bees last summer, they will give a big advantage to your package by giving them already drawn comb. If you had a pesticide hit, you may have poisoned pollen in the comb and may need to throw away the frames with a lot of pollen. Dave The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com AFB Scale photos: http://www.pollinator.com/afbscale.htm From: Jonathan Kriebel > I found a bunch of starved-out hives when putting the candy boards on. > (Obviously too late). I was wondering, in order to keep the WM from > trashing them , should I bring them in and use the Sulfur Burner on > them, :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:42:14 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: More on destroying drone cells as Varroa control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As wisely pointed out by Aaron, using frames with drone foundation only works well when a frame filled with sealed cells is immediately replaced with another. I should have mentioned that. Drone cells are capped for 18 days (compared to 15 days for workers). This not only means that Varroa can sometimes produce three generations therein (compared to two fgenerations on worker larval) but also means that the beekeeper has a great day of latitude concerning visiting the hive to pull the frame. I find that if I return to the hive anywhere from 25-30 days after I was last there that I will find a full frame of capped larvae. Some are within 1-3 days of emerging, and some would not emerge for a week. But all are capped and many Varroa are destroyed. There seems no question, in the research community, that Varroa prefer drone brood. But how do they find it? Some researchers think that Varroa can detect drone brood by phermones. Others say that is nonsense, and point out that drone larval are fed for a full day longer than workers and think that more drone larval have Varroa (than compared to worker larval) only because of the higher number of worker visits. Regardless, by freezing one rids the hive of THREE generations Varroa. Repeat that by 3-4 times, and the numbers really add up. I have also noticed, and this surprises me, that when the bees have drone foundation they will produce drones right up until frost. I run my hives with almost-new worker foundation (none more than 5-years old) so don't have a lot of natural drone cells around. But before I started using drone foundation I never noticed sealed drone cells so late in the year. My yards have 25-30 hives each. If I had to make two trips, one to pull drone foundation and another to replace it, the labor required would not work. As it is, when I leave in the morning I pull about 30 frames from the freezer (which holds about 60 frames), and they are still frozen when I put them in the hives. It astounds me that in 48 hours these frames are clean and ready for the queen; in 24 hours they are 'mostly' clean. Sure, one could just destroy the sealed cells and immediately return the frame to the bees. A simple puncture with a fork would do the job. But that would take perhaps a minute each frame...I am always in a hurry when I am in a yard, and would not like to add a 1/2 hour to my jobs. But perhaps I am wrong about that. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:52:54 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Dead hives and wax moths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathan said "I was wondering, in order to keep the WM from trashing them ..." I don't know where you are in PA, but I can't believe that WM would be a problem there before mid-May, and more likely not until June. So, leave the frames alone as long as you can. If you are getting packages, I strongly suggest you use your drawn frames before using foundation. It will give the bees a huge start. Get your packages soon. It appears there will be a very large shortage from reputable suppliers. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:10:36 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Latest Mite Treatment Device MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Aaron Morris" " I'm assembling shallow frames to put in my > deep bodies with the intent of cutting the capped drone brood 3 or 4 times > a > season." Bees rear drones in 'wild' comb in spring , yes - but can you always prolong drone rearing so as to cull drone brood 3 or 4 times a season...? If not, you will be cutting away nectar/stored honey - sounds wasteful. While asking, the other problem is surely avoiding setting up a varroa nursery - by leaving wild comb with drone cells in it for more than 3 weeks so that drones (and varroa) emerge. Sounds like need to cull EVERY 3 weeks, that's could be say 8 times thru the summer. How is this done in practice? Established European practice seems to be drone brood cull only in spring using a frame divided into 3 parts, one part being cut every week , formic acid pads after removing supers in say August, oxalic acid dribbled in late autumn. Why is that not the routine in US? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:05:43 -0500 Reply-To: jkriebel@speakeasy.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jonathan Kriebel Organization: Veritec, Ltd Subject: Re: Dead hives and Wax Moths. In-Reply-To: <42146796.392.393497@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had WM in some of the Supers in the [heated] honey-haus. I am concerned about residue, but according to EU, this is approved for use against WM. I basically killed the bees by removing too much honey, and counting on HFCS to get them to get their reserves up. In addition, I neglected the hives in December, when I should have done an inspection, and put the CB on them...Live and learn. Just hurts. I deserve to get stung a bit this year...JK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:08:43 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Parasites Attacking Oregon Bee Hives In-Reply-To: <12b.56f102dd.2f45f432@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "James W. Hock" wrote: Another AP story on AOL News And another screwup by the press. Do appreciate their attempts at reporting, but when I see their SNAFU's with bee stories, I wonder how they mess up stories about people. This particular reporter mixed up Varroa and Trachial mites. The reporter got the message out but it was an inaccurate one. "The mites infest the breathing tubes of bees, and causes hives to become smaller, said Susan Hansen, a beekeeper in rural Clackamas County." as written by the reporter reporting on our Varroa problem. He/she got two stories mixed up. Mike --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Parasites Attacking Oregon Bee Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Heck, that’s nothing. Here’s something Adrian Wenner posted a couple of years ago from a newspaper article on AHB: In the meantime, items appeared in the several weekly papers, with various degrees of misinformation. One letter included the claim, "If you were to breach the perimeter of a hive's territory, you would first encounter the guard drones." Another weekly paper had a color photo on the front page that included a debris laden dead worker bee missing all but one hind wing and most of its legs. http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0209C&L=bee-l&P=R1234 Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:01:38 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Parasites Attacking Oregon Bee Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Mike Stoops" wrote > And another screwup by the press. Do appreciate their attempts at reporting, but when I see their SNAFU's with bee stories, I wonder how they mess up stories about people. Just the same here - I have now given up buying newspapers! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:47:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Press Accuracy In-Reply-To: <200502172132.j1HJl7Fs010952@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Be thankful, We found a press story, placing us at The Univ of Minnesota, rather than Univ of MT that stated that since we wouldn't talk to them, they took the liberty of an in depth interview with Herb Spencer. Herb it seems, was a member of our research team (news to us), and wasn't bashful about talking about what worked and didn't work (although to my knowledge, none of us has ever met Herb). We also had two German reporters threatening to sue each other. One did an exaggerated story about what we did with bees and landmines, the other wrote a story that indicated it was all a fraud or at least didn't work. Then each contacted me to be a witness against the other -- although neither had talked to me or any of my associates before writing their respective stories. Bottom line, National Enquirer, some years back, actually got most of the story right, while some of the 'respected' magazines came out with something akin to science fiction -- that from their technical (science) writers. Go figure. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:28:21 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Open feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You said you put straw in... > 1) Does it make any difference what kind of straw? See http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/incl/4i1.htm#drumfeed http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2000/diary091700.htm#drumfeed http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2001/diary100101.htm#drumfeed http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2002/diary100102.htm#drumfeed for a few hints. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:40:28 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Varroa and "Green Muscle" ?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> The recent discussion about Metarhizium anisopliae should be read >> keeping in mind that, "if it sounds too good to be true, ..." Seems that Bill Ruzicka and Adony, I think, worked on this a few years back and found, among other things, that maintaining the fungus presence in the hive was a problem. I think the topic even hit this list. Perhaps this problem has been addressed in the current incarnation of the concept, and perhaps this product will hit the market and be proven, but we must remember that many of the products that are announced as being 'working well in tests and almost ready for use', have not panned out in the real world. They have either not made it to market, or had problems when exposed to the very different conditions that exist in commercial operations distributed over the entire continent. I could mention five recent products, without even having to stretch. There currently are products on the market, and products that can be made up easily, that can control mites acceptably. The problem is that they all require some thought and careful planning and application. (So did Apistan and Checkmite+, but how many figured that out, since they seemed to work no matter how badly mismanaged?) Will this one be the 'silver bullet'? If you think so, get out your money. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:23:09 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: The Bee and the Climate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Herve' & All, Excluding the mini-Ice Age of 600 or so years ago, that was speculated to have been caused by a massive volcano eruption in the Philippines, Evidence clearly indicates that the Earth has been in a Global warming period for well over 10,000 years. The thing I am most concerned about, but not losing a wink of sleep over, is Global cooling. This would be the next natural progression of the Earths climate cycles. The Earth in the past has been known to have been hotter and at times cooler, at times when man could not have been an influence. Current weather patterns to me are not a problem that man has caused, in my opinion. There is no evidence that clearly points to us as the reason for climate changes. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:20:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: The Bee and the Climate In-Reply-To: <20050216183809.78768.qmail@web20828.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Yet it is now a conscensus in the scientific community > that not only climate change because of anthropogenic > GHG emissions will happen but also has already > started. It is too late to avoid climate change and we > have to adapt. The earth is warming but so in Mars, Uranus and Neptune. The sun has been in a 300 year warming cycle. Truth is, we are still more likely to be heading for an ice age, as was taught to me way back when. The usual warm period between ice ages is about 10,000 years and we are on the back end of that. Also, each cooling period was preceded by an increase in warming and CO2 levels, exactly what is happening now. So we could be in the typical cycle and need to break out the parkas for a nice 100,000 year cool down. Sun cycles and ice ages are still poorly understood. So is global warming, even though it is touted as an exact science. It may even be that the added CO2 from mankind might forestall the ice age, and implementing CO2 reduction will bring it on sooner. There is more to climate than CO2 out of a tailpipe. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:41:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Varroa and "Green Muscle" ?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to the ABJ Bill Ruzicka has a patent on Hirsutella thompsonii. Is this close to Metarhizium anisopliae a.k.a Green Muscle?? Peter > Seems that Bill Ruzicka and Adony, I think, worked on this a few years back > and found, among other things, that maintaining the fungus presence in the > hive was a problem. I think the topic even hit this list. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:14:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Waggle Subject: THE EFFECTS OF ENVIRONMENTAL AND GENETIC FACTORS DETERMINING THE CELL SIZE OF HONEYBEE COMB Hello, Need help please, a lead, tip or hunch on where to look for this document. I'm at a dead end. Thanks in advance! Pirk, C, Hepburn, HR Hepburn, C and Tautz, J THE EFFECTS OF ENVIRONMENTALAND GENETIC FACTORS DETERMINING THE CELL SIZE OF HONEYBEE COMB (309) It's listed here, but need to find the PDF: http://www.apimondia2003.com/prog.php?lang=eng Very Best Regards, Joe :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:33:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ted Hancock Subject: Bar Codes This message may only be of interest to Canadian producer/packers. Several beekeepers, including myself, have been boycotting the annual bar code fee levied by the Electronic Commerce Council of Canada (ECCC). We also started a letter writing campaign outlining our reasons for this boycott (see copy of letter below). Someone out there may find themselves in a similar situation, so I will give a brief history of my dealings with the ECCC. I purchased a bar code from them in the summer of 2000. To get my code I paid a one time fee of $245.00 plus a yearly fee of $550.00. On January 1, 2001, the ECCC sent me an invoice for another yearly fee but had raised it to $650.00. This I did not pay, nor have I paid them anything since. In 2004 I was contacted by a collection agency to collect money owing to the ECCC. They said this debt would be erased if I agreed to give up my bar code. By Christmas of 2004 I was getting letters from the collection agency threatening to ruin my credit rating and take me to court if I didn't pay up or give up the code. So just before Christmas I sent off the paper work agreeing to stop using my bar code, but added a note saying once again that I felt the yearly fee was unaffordable, unfair and unjustified. The collection agency then called me saying they wanted to make it clear that they had not forced me to do anything I didn't want to do. I replied that this was an odd statement coming from them when they had spent the last twelve months doing exactly that. They then hung up on me which was a change because usually it was me hanging up on them. Then, on January 2, 2005, I recieved a call from the ECCC saying I didn't need to give up my bar code if we could come to an agreement. They offered to lower my yearly fee to $395.00/yr if I could prove I had sales less than $50,000.00/yr and sold ten or fewer different products. I pointed out that many beekeepers make a significant portion of their income through the sale of package bees, nucs, queens and pollination services. Since these activities do not benefit from the use of bar codes, they should not be considered part of a our total income when purchasing a bar code. I suggested a more workable figure for their new catagory would be total sales of $200,000.00. I also stated that I felt $395.00 was still too high but said I could live with a yearly fee of $200.00/yr. They said they'd get back to me and I'm still waiting. If you agree that these yearly fees are too high I urge you to write your provincial and federal politicians. You can also write: Mr. Nigel Wood, Director of Industry Relations, Electronic Commerce Council of Canada, 885 Don Mills Road, Suite 301, Toronto, Ontario, M3C 1V9 Thanks for your time, Ted Dear Sir/Madam, I am writing to ask for your support in demanding that the Electronic Commerce Council of Canada(ECCC) reduce the prohibitive cost of Universal Product Codes (UPC). The high cost of these codes is effectively excluding many small businesses from the retail market. I believe the government should play a role in ensuring that all sectors of our economy can continue to participate in this marketplace. In 1997 the ECCC was formed by several large retailers with a goal of administering the bar code system. The ECCC promotes itself as a not-for- profit organization, but it has initiated a system of yearly fees for any business wishing to obtain a bar code. Those businesses with annual sales under $5 million pay an annual fee of $650.00 + GST, while those with annual sales over $5 million pay an annual fee of $895.00 + GST. These fees are subject to increase without notice and are in addition to a one time fee of $245.00 + GST. Businesses who obtained a bar code before 1997 pay no yearly fee. This new policy affects many small primary producers who want to sell in the retail market. Many of these business have annual sales of $20,000.00 to $100,000.00 and so find these annual fees extreme and onerous. Many honey producers are in this category of annual sales. Our national organization, the Canadian Honey Council, has lobbied the ECCC on our behalf, asking that they create a category for smaller businesses like ours with a much lower fee schedule. The ECCC has refused. Similar complaints to the Universal Code Council (UCC) which assigns bar codes in the United States have produced some changes. The UCC now have a catagory for business with annual sales under $300,000.00 for which the annual fee is $150.00. The end result of all this is that new suppliers to the Canadian market are in effect paying a new tax. They cannot pass it on to the consumer because the tax does not apply to their competitors who obtained codes before 1997. And the lower fees in the U.S. leave competition from that country with a clear advantage. UPCs were developed by the grocery industry and first used on a pack of Juicy Fruit gum in 1973. Until 1997 the codes were assigned to retail suppliers for free or for a minimal charge. This is because bar codes save the retail industry a lot of money. In her article "Breaking the bar code: what all those lines and numbers really mean", from the April 2002 edition of the National Post Business Journal, Diane Peters reports," Currently, there are five types of bar codes, which are used in 23 industries by more than 250,000 companies in 141 countries. About five billion UPC codes are scanned everyday worldwide. The savings in the U.S. grocery-store industry alone, UPC codes save about U.S. $17 billion a year. What accounts for most of it? The use of the bar code, according to PriceWaterhouseCoopers in it's glowing report "17 Billion Reasons to Say Thanks," has allowed the industry to shed full-time jobs, cut back on training costs, dramatically decrease mistakes at checkouts and greatly increase accuracy with coupons." This is confirmed in a Canadian Press Newswire article titled "Product bar codes targeted for overhaul to align with European system", which was published August 19, 2002. It states "The ECCC estimates that by eliminating typing errors and making the checkout process more efficient, UPC's save the food industry alone $17 billion a year". If the retail industry saves such enormous sums through the use of these codes, why do they need to charge any fee at all? I am also concerned about future developments in bar code technology. The retail industry is now developing a more complicated traditional bar code as well as an electronic chip that can replace bar codes. If the ECCC is allowed to maintain it's monopoly over access to these new technologies, I believe it will have a serious negative impact on our economy. Canadian suppliers should not be forced to pay fees that clearly put them at a competative disadvantage. Such a policy is not in Canadian consumers' interests and weakens our economy. Therefore I am urging you to address this situation so that all Canadian producers and manufacturers can participate fully in our economy. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:33:17 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Latest Mite Treatment Device MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I would like to see a video of this beast operating. It's obviously >> smart and might be self propelled? A bit more info, plus a picture of the thing in action: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2005/diary022005.htm allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ Still in Vancouver :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:05:13 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: The Bee and the Climate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Keith Malone" "There is no evidence that clearly points > to us as the reason for climate changes." Curious statement when just about every scientist working on the problem has concluded otherwise. Just because some truth may be inconvenient does not justify going into denial. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:29:07 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: The Bee and the Climate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Curious statement when just about every scientist working on the > problem has concluded otherwise. Just because some truth may be > inconvenient does not justify going into denial. Is this a fair reply to the rational comments made previously? I suspect not. Using words like 'truth', 'denial', and phrases like, 'just about every' tends to muddy the water. Those of us who have followed the topic for a half-century or more are intrigued by the political spin placed on this discussion and suspect that the dogma attached has to do more with geopolitics than with science. That having been said, I doubt any thinking person -- and the two who have commented are obviously thinking more than many -- is denying that we (humans) are having _some_ effect on the climate, but I also think that the whole topic has been 'dumbed down' for the media, and we have no clear idea what the effects really are or will be, or how the whole scenario will play out. Natural events that happen periodically -- volcanos, tsunamis, asteriod collisions, etc. -- far overpower the puny efforts of man, good or bad on climate, no matter how onmipotent we may like to think we are. The original question had to do with Kyoto and what influence climate change, whether natural or man-made -- will have on us, and whether bee associations have looked ahead. Have we? After all, North America has been warming up for several millennia. I'm told that the location from which I am writing was under a glacier not too long ago. Are we expecting immediate climate changes that will affect beekeeping? allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:39:35 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: The Bee and the Climate In-Reply-To: <002d01c517a1$9736ed60$839cbc3e@DellDesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Robin Dartington wrote: 'From: "Keith Malone" "There is no evidence that clearly points > to us as the reason for climate changes." Curious statement when just about every scientist working on the problem has concluded otherwise. Just because some truth may be inconvenient does not justify going into denial.' But even with all the knowledge we currently have about weather, most scientists would agree that there is even more that we don't know. We can take the information we have and make sound, judicious conclusions; but we don't know nearly all of the dynamics which constitute our world's weather, let alone what dynamics affected the weather tens of thousands of years ago. We can take geological data and make some pretty sound conclusions, but...... With all that I have learned from the information that I've seen from the news services, articles, etc. this world has had periods of warming and cooling in the past. What is to say that this is not the emergence of one of these periods as Keith has suggested? Mike --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:19:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Bee-coming a virtual library Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bee-coming a virtual library Last spring, Mann Library launched its newest online collection of historical literature with The Hive and the Honeybee, a growing digital collection of volumes from the renowned Everett Phillips Beekeeping collection at Mann Library. Prof. Phillips founded Cornell's apiculture collection, one of the largest and most comprehensive beekeeping libraries in the world with the support of New York State beekeepers in the 1920s. For the past few years, U.S. beekeepers have taken this support one big step further by raising money to help digitize the most important books in the Phillips collection and place them online where they can be used by beekeepers, apiculturists, entomologists, biologists and any interested person in the world. Particularly effective in getting the word out about the Hive & Honey Bee initiative were two generous challenges: the first announced by the Eastern Apicultural Society in early 2003 and a second by the Tampa Bay Beekeepers Association in spring 2004. Each challenge promised to match all gifts on a 1:1 basis up to $1000. Beekeepers across the country--from Maine to Tennessee and Oregon--responded enthusiastically. By August 2003 they had fully met the EAS challenge, and by December 2004 the TBBA challenge was complete as well. Thanks to this support and gifts that continue to come from American beekeepers, the Hive & Honeybee Collection will continue to grow. The next set of books will be added to the collection in spring 2005. To find out more or to browse this growing collection go to http://bees.library.cornell.edu/. We are looking for an individuals or organization that might be interested in continuing this Challenge so that we may provide more beekeeping books to the world beekeeping community. We are slowly but surely fulfilling Phillips goal of providing beekeepers with an "accessible storehouse of our knowledge of bees and beekeeping". This is the next set of books being prepared for digitization with a Target of Spring 2005 for mounting to the internet. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Alley, Henry. Thirty years among the bees ... Salem, Mass., Salem press, 1891. Cowan, T. W. (Thomas William), 1840-1926. Wax craft, all about beeswax; its history, production, adulteration, and commercial value with 17 plates and 37 figures on art paper. London, S. Low, Marston & co., ltd. [etc.] 1908. Harbison, John S. The bee-keeper's directory; or, The theory and practice of bee culture, in all its departments, the result of eighteen years personal study of their habits and instincts. With an introductory essay by O. C. Wheeler ... San Francisco, H. H. Bancroft and company, 1861. Benton, Frank. The honey bee: a manual of instruction in apiculture Washington, Govt. print. off., 1899. Cowan, T. W. (Thomas William), 1840-1926. British bee-keeper's guide book to the management of bees in moveable comb hives and the use of the extractor. London : Houlston, 1881. Affleck, Thomas, 1812-1868. Bee-breeding in the West. Cincinnati : E. Lucas, 1841. Ballantine, William. A practical treatise on bee culture. Sago, Ohio. Bloomfield, 1884. Bevan, Edward, 1770-1860. The honey bee, its natural history, physiology, and management. London, Van Voorst, 1827. Kidder, K. P. Kidder's guide to apiarian science, being a practical treatise, in every department of bee culture and bee management. Embracing the natural history of the bee ... the anatomy and physiology of the different species of bees that constitute a colony, &c Burlington, Vt., S. B. Nichols; Chicago, R. Blanchard, 1858. King, N. H. The bee-keeper's text-book with alphabetical index, being a complete reference book on all practical subjects connected with the culture of the honey bee in both common and movable-comb hives, giving minute directions for the management of bees in every month of the year, and illustrating the nucleus system of swarming and Italian queen rearing. Cleveland. Viets & Savage. 1864. or King, Albert J. The new bee-keepers' text-book New York, King, 1878. 24th ed., 52d thousand. Being a thorough revision of the old text book, by N. H. & H. A. King. Enlarged and illustrated. Mike Griggs :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:58:49 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: The Bee and the Climate In-Reply-To: <002d01c517a1$9736ed60$839cbc3e@DellDesk> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Robin, (and other relatives of chicken little) > Curious statement when just about every scientist working on the problem > has concluded otherwise. Just because some truth may be inconvenient > does > not justify going into denial. Why then is it necessary for the UK to spend £12m to convince the public that this is so. Why then are those concerned really pseudo scientists. Genuine scientist have measured a genuine increase in atmospheric CO2 from pre-industrial levels of about 280ppmv to approximately 375ppmv now (most of this increase has occurred since 1950 when it was ~310ppmv). On the other hand the measurable increase in near-surface temperatures comes from prior to 1950. Unfortunately this increase came from a period of "abnormal" low temperatures. Real measured changes in temperature fall well below normal variations, even within seasons. The whole "global warming" scam is rejected by real scientists. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:59:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Global Warming I wish to comment very briefly. This list is supposed to be an *informed* one. The following remark seems to be opposed to that notion: > The whole "global warming" scam is rejected by real scientists. Global warming is no scam, nor is it rejected by "real" scientists. Read the following short excerpt and you will note the use of words such as "clear evidence" and "statistical significance" rather than dogmatic assertions or careless generalizations. * * * Scripps Researchers Find Clear Evidence of Human-Produced Warming in World's Oceans: Climate warming likely to impact water resources in regions around the globe Scientists at Scripps Institution of Oceanography at the University of California, San Diego, and their colleagues have produced the first clear evidence of human-produced warming in the world's oceans, a finding they say removes much of the uncertainty associated with debates about global warming. In a new study conducted with colleagues at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's Program for Climate Model Diagnosis and Intercomparison (PCMDI), Tim Barnett and David Pierce of Scripps Institution used a combination of computer models and real-world "observed" data to capture signals of the penetration of greenhouse gas-influenced warming in the oceans. The authors make the case that their results clearly indicate that the warming is produced anthropogenically, or by human activities. "This is perhaps the most compelling evidence yet that global warming is happening right now and it shows that we can successfully simulate its past and likely future evolution," said Tim Barnett, a research marine physicist in the Climate Research Division at Scripps. Barnett says he was "stunned" by the results because the computer models reproduced the penetration of the warming signal in all the oceans. "The statistical significance of these results is far too strong to be merely dismissed and should wipe out much of the uncertainty about the reality of global warming." * * * Scripps Institution of Oceanography, at the University of California, San Diego, is one of the oldest, largest, and most important centers for global science research and graduate training in the world. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:48:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: The Bee and the Climate In-Reply-To: <002d01c517a1$9736ed60$839cbc3e@DellDesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin Dartington wrote: > Curious statement when just about every scientist working on the problem > has concluded otherwise. Just because some truth may be inconvenient does > not justify going into denial. Not true. I suggest we let this topic die, since it is more politics than science and a waste of bandwidth in this forum. The problem with "Global Warming" is that there is truth in one respect- the earth is warming and CO2 is increasing. Why, for how long, and what is the cause is where dissent arises, and that is where agendas and a lot of junk science step in. Truth is, all the computer models have been continually "upgraded" when they do not support the outcome. Sort of like stockmarket forecast programs. They are always right in hindsight, seldom foresight. As noted, over the long haul, what we are looking at- warming and CO2 increase- has been characteristic of an impending ice age. It is interesting that a sudden drop in CO2 levels occurs with the cooling. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:09:51 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Simon Pigot Subject: Re: the Bee and the climate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > allen dick wrote: > >>Curious statement when just about every scientist working on the >>problem has concluded otherwise. Just because some truth may be >>inconvenient does not justify going into denial. > > > Is this a fair reply to the rational comments made previously? I suspect > not. Using words like 'truth', 'denial', and phrases like, 'just about > every' tends to muddy the water. Those of us who have followed the topic > for a half-century or more are intrigued by the political spin placed on > this discussion and suspect that the dogma attached has to do more with > geopolitics than with science. Err yes, it is fair reply I think. Why? Because whilst those two who commented previously certainly were sure of themselves, they didn't quote any evidence to back up their beliefs which sound 'rational' but who knows? Now whilst I agree that very few of the arguments FOR global warming/climate change based on CO2 etc have been reported accurately by the media (your comment about dumbing down is no doubt correct), isn't it likely that inaccuracies and dumbing down are also present in the reports of arguments AGAINST global warming? As for those (not people on this list) who wish to use the arguments for "geopolitics", surely no one thinks that these types are all outside the good ole US of A? :-) Frankly, I don't know what the real answer is because I haven't had time to investigate the arguments in any detail and I don't particularly trust journalists (even those from what are IMO fairly respectable publications like New Scientist to name an example) to get the facts right. So where does that leave me? Probably agreeing with you that: > ....I doubt any thinking person -- and the two who have > commented are obviously thinking more than many -- is denying that we > (humans) are having _some_ effect on the climate.... But I'd like to return to a very pertinent question that you ask at the end of your response: > Are we expecting immediate climate changes that will affect beekeeping? > Maybe the answer to this is that we should be looking at changes in microclimate caused by local actions rather than the possibly more difficult to estimate global climate changes caused by CO2 etc (of course the two may well be related in some way but we probably won't ever have a decent handle on that relationship). Having spoken to quite a few beekeepers in Tasmania in the course of my research I can say that based on roughly 40 years of their experience that they have observed (micro)climate changes affecting beekeeping/bees. An example is hydro power construction of large dammed lakes which has affected nectar yields from the main nectar producing plant (Leatherwood or Eucryphia lucida) in the south-west of Tasmania. Local climate used to be warm/hot with drizzle, but now much cooler after new lakes were constructed. The observation is that yields have decreased. Coincidentally and perhaps supporting this observation is botanical research showing that Leatherwood flowering can be delayed by a month or more if the average summertime temperature is one degree less than normal. Such a change moves the flowering period into cooler, less stable weather where trees lose flowers earlier and bees have more difficulty accessing flowers at higher elevations or in the partially shaded understorey. Anecdotal you might say? Well maybe, especially as more modern/better understood beekeeping techniques, loss of resource to clearfelling and burning and new access to other areas of Leatherwood plus a host of other (possibly unknown) variables have hidden any effects on production stats. Yet the observation has been made by a number of those who have been out there for 40 years and it deserves investigation. Whether we have the data to prove it scientifically is another question, but it is an observation and we certainly can't ignore it in any future considerations, especially as the nectar resource is known by botanists to be pretty sensitive to variations in summertime temps. I suspect we as beekeepers/scientists interested in beekeeping should at least be making these observations more widely known so that they can be explored to the best of mankinds poor ability/understanding - after all in many cases beekeepers have been making continuous observations longer than any other scientists (botanists, foresters etc) in these areas! Cheers, Simon http://au.geocities.com/tasbeekeepers :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:57:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: The bee and the climate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When a piece of the ice shelf the size of Massachusetts breaks off and = melts, isn't that time to reassess? Some folks may have trouble soon, = finding enough sand to put their heads in. If we didn't cause it = (warming), we're contributing to it and we should stop. The more the ice = caps melt, the less white snow there is to reflect heat/sunlight back = into space. (And the more heat is trapped, and on and on). I heard = President Bush this morning talking to the world about cooperation. "And = we all gave our opinions about the Kyoto treaty..." he said, as if that = were some sort of contribution. Backing out of that treaty helped US = industry but may have cost us important credibility in the world. This = administration has continually rewritten or delayed a report by our own = scientists in the EPA re global warning. (Did anyone ever get to read = that report?)That alone makes me think at least our scientists think we = are contributing to the problem.=20 Dick Marron :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:10:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Global Warming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The original query regarding this topic was "So, I wonder if climate change assessment on the bees and beekeeping industry has been performed by councils and associations. How you, beekeepers in the front line of environmental impacts, feel with regard to this issue." I was wary of the topic from this very first post, realizing the potential to get off-topic was immense. The first half of the query was bee-related, but so far no one has offered any change assessment on the bees and beekeeping industry that has been performed by councils and associations. Frankly, I'm not sure how such assessments would/could be performed. As I sit here and watch the 4 to 6 inches of forecast snow accumulate (typical for February in these parts) I speculate that a bit of global warming would benefit my bees. Upstate New York is a harsh climate on honey bee colonies. A week or two at both ends of the season can't but help my hives, and an extra cleansing flight periodically throughout the winter certainly can't hurt. But this is speculation. As regards the first part of the original query, as far as I know (and I pay close attention) my local, state and regional beekeeping associations have done nothing in regards to assessing the arguable long term effects of global warming. As far as the latter half of the query, I feel it's safe to say that there are beekeepers that recognize global warming as a real phenomenon that needs to be addressed, and there are beekeepers that recognize global warming as bunk. Is too, is not, is too, is not. Aaron Morris - thinking let's stay on topic folks! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:46:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Global Warming In-Reply-To: <200502211303.j1LCixrh005808@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > Tim Barnett and David Pierce of Scripps Institution used a > combination of computer models and real-world "observed" data to capture > signals of the penetration of greenhouse gas-influenced warming in the > oceans. The authors make the case that their results clearly indicate that > the warming is produced anthropogenically, or by human activities. (Since this appears to be a thread that will not die, here is some more fuel to warm us on a cold winters day.) Any time I see "computer models" a flag goes up. That is the problem in a nutshell. GIGO is a fundamental truth for anyone working with computer code. Garbage in Garbage out. When I worked with Sperry I quickly found that the computer program we were to use on one of our US Navy ships was just fine in the confines of a building and operated by those who wrote the code, but failed miserably when operated by sailors. They did not go by the book. Neither does weather. This sounds a lot like those stock market analyze programs. Great in hindsight, lousy in prediction. Again, remember as verified by historical measurements (in millions of years), there has always been a CO2 increase before an ice age, well before SUVs. Plus, "global" warming has been verified on other planets. Which always brings us back to the sun as the true engine of climate change. And it has been in a 300 year warming cycle. As far as bees go, I have enough trouble keeping up with current climate changes than to worry about a theory based on human coded computer programs of where the weather is going to go in the next hundred years. I have little idea of what it will be like in a month. However, as a public service for those that are worrying, I suggest reading Shakespeare's King Lear (not related to the jet of the same name) and how well he did with the tides. For those interested in the jet, a shorter piece is below. http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/GENERAL_AVIATION/lear/GA13.htm Bill Truesdell (outside is snow and 6F. Where is global warming when you need it?) Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:52:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gregory Boes Subject: Re: Bee-coming a virtual library In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but it sure would be nice if this digital collection were set up to be a bit more user friendly. The web interface makes it pretty difficult to read and nearly impossible to save off plain text. The scanned text itself is filled with OCR errors. The Mann Library could sure use some of the tenets set forth by the Gutenberg Project www.gutenberg.org They may even use the services of the GP to get the text proofread www.pgdp.net into a acceptable form. Greg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:53:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Press Accuracy In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050217154209.03feaa00@selway.umt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: > We also had two German reporters threatening to sue each other. One did an > exaggerated story about what we did with bees and landmines, the other > wrote a story that indicated it was all a fraud or at least didn't > work. Then each contacted me to be a witness against the other -- although > neither had talked to me or any of my associates before writing their > respective stories. Most of the time reporters will not let you check their story before printing it, but there are a smart few that do. I have worked with them and the effectiveness of their articles and a shared trust had them continue that process. However, it is usually like Jerry notes. They may listen to you but they often do not hear you. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:46:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Global Warming wrote: >I speculate that a bit of global warming would benefit my bees. Upstate New York is a harsh climate on honey bee colonies. Yes, but we don't know how warming would affect us and if it would be a benefit at all. It might cause the bees to build up earlier, only to suffer setbacks during a rainy, damp spring. Like having fruit trees bloom too early puts them at risk for losing the fruit set due to seasonal frost. Warming might be good for some and not for others. In the south it could create drought. Underlying this, however, is: what does it mean to be informed and what is the role of science in our lives? I certainly wouldn't dismiss global warming prediction because it depends on computer modeling. Computer models are supplied with increasingly excellent data. For example: New NASA Technology Helps Forecasters in Severe Weather Season When severe thunderstorms and tornadoes strike, communities often have only a few precious minutes to react. New NASA technology and satellite data is giving weather forecasters the tools they need to improve warning lead times, critical in ensuring the public can get to shelter before a storm. NASA relies on its Earth-observing satellites and models to understand the way the atmosphere, lands and ocean interact. Satellite data, including surface wind data from QuikScat and rainfall data from the Tropical Rainfall Measuring Mission (TRMM) enhances NOAA's weather model forecasts. Recent research has suggested that adding NASA satellite data and model output to NOAA forecasts could increase tornado warning lead times by 18 minutes. NASA's Short-term Prediction Research and Transition (SPoRT) Center at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center is working with NWS meteorologists across the southern United States to improve severe weather forecasting. SPoRT provides real-time lightning data to surrounding NWS forecast offices for use in weather warning decision making. Finally, scheduled for launch in June 2004, NASA's Aura satellite will provide temperature and moisture information. That data will provide a clearer atmospheric picture, and will help improve computer model weather forecasts :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:12:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Metarhizium anisopliae For mite control Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed There has been much talk & some success with Metarhizium anisopliae (M.a.) which is definitely a promising candidate for development as a biocontrol for Varroa. However, I would like to perhaps shed some hard cold reality to the prospects of M.a. being the silver bullet for mite control. I believe if M.a. can bridge the numerous hurdles that are required to develop, test, document efficacy & safety, register and successfully market it as a product that it may provide another potential tool in controlling outbreak populations of Varroa but I doubt it will be the end all to our mite problems. It may not be the efficacy of M.a. that causes failure of product development it may in fact be the safety & marketing aspects of M.a. Certainly these Entomopathogenic fungi are very interesting and often display dramatic epizootics in nature. We have a cryogenic culture collection here in our research group holding around 7000 individual specimens of pathogenic fungi (or thought to be pathogenic) to insects & other arthropods. Very few have ever been studied fewer utilized and only a couple have been selected for commercial development. The several that have, have not generated commercial success even though they appeared to be very virulent to the target organism yet safe for humans & relatively safe for non-targets. There are basically two ways to utilize these fungal pathogens. One is classic biological control where an organism is released into the environment with the hopes it will establish itself & provide control, particularly in large population centers. No commercial gain here! Once established there is no longer anyone willing to by the stuff as it works on its own--think Entomphaga maimaiga & Gypsy Moth in the NE. The other method is to develop a mycoinsecticide, a product developed from the organism used to control source populations much like an insecticide would be used. Spray & pray! This could be used to control the pest in areas the fungus was not already or in too low a concentration to be effective. There is economic incentive here to develop & market a product that can be sold to generate a profit. It would need to be repeatedly reintroduced so the end user would need to keep buying product for re- application. The difficulty of developing a working product is probably much easier & less expensive than proving safety, efficacy & insuring to your financier that a profit will be worth the early investments. The costs of doing the requisite testing for registration may be excessive. Here is where several products have failed to materialize, not on the lab bench where the organism proves worthy but on the market competing with more effective cheaper chemical insecticides that are being pumped out. These new chemistries are amazingly effective. I've tested some agricultural products that at 1 tenth the labeled rate have provided better control than twice the rate of fungal insecticide. My suggestion is to hold tight, keep an eye on this product. Poking this down a termite nest in your foundation is a lot different from potentially putting in your food supply. This product while on the market for one insect will require lots of study to become a tool for beekeepers. I hope it makes it! After about 20 years of studying these organisms they certainly seem to have great potential, its just that relatively few successes have yet emerged from the use of fungi. Market forces are changing & the organic revolution is changing the landscape, insecticides developed from very poisonous chemicals are being seen for what they are moving to biologics will take time but I think that it may be coming. Mike Griggs Entomologist/ Support Scientist :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:16:15 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Spring / warming. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>As I sit here and watch the 4 to 6 inches of forecast snow accumulate (typical for February in these parts) I speculate that a bit of global warming would benefit my bees. Upstate New York is a harsh climate on honey bee colonies. Aaron, We've gotten about the same amount of snow, although closer to 4" than 6', last night in downstate NY on Long Island. Interestingly enough, walking around yesterday -- Feb. 20th and before the snow -- my wife and I saw a couple of sheltered spots where snow drops and crocuses were already showing their pretty heads. Made me think spring was just around the corner! Waldemar Long Island, NY PS. Since they have discovered frozen seas on Mars(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4285119.stm), perhaps global or solar system warming will make beekeeping possible there one day. :) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:28:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: The beekeeper citizen - was the Bee and the climate In-Reply-To: <63D883CB0A1B204EB053673DD882CB530B3C6F02@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I firstly wrote an answere, emprunte of diplomacy and philosophy, asnwering each argument. But it was far too long for the list. So, I try this one, sharp and short as possible. 1. There is enough information available to allow each one to make his/her own opinion and behave accordingly. 2. It appears there is a wide gap between scientists community shaking the bell of the boat and the common knowledge, even in this informed community. 3. The CO2 allowances market is estimated to 50 billion euros for the 2005-2007 period. Think about it a quarter of a sec and evaluate if it worth a few minutes of your time to think and write about it, to be informed and make your own opinion. 4. > I was wary of the topic from this very first post, > realizing the potential > to get off-topic was immense. Indeed, it was. Just to keep us awake during those long grey snowing days. I feel it's > safe to say that there > are beekeepers that recognize global warming as a > real phenomenon that needs > to be addressed, and there are beekeepers that > recognize global warming as > bunk. Is too, is not, is too, is not. If one is not convinced of anthropogenic emissions on climate, there is no need to worry nor assess anything about CO2 and all that stuff, nor to change habits. Everything is going for the better in the best of worlds as Candide was repeating. But if beekeeping is strongly dependant on flora and climate, I think beekeepers do not have the luxury to ignore the debate and stay apart, giving up the debate to scientists (who no longer debate about it), politics and lobbists. And if decision makers agreed to spent not million but billions of dollars on that issue, I guess it worth a bit of our time, and some ko in the archives. But if one does not want to have his own position about it, anyway someone will think and decide for him. People have the politics they deserve and have to live with their decisions, beekeepers included. Believe me even if "merciful" is not in lobbyists vocabulary, they speak loud. Clearly, there are tons and tons of information about that issue on the net, in magazines and journals. But if you are amazed of the way journalists can misunderstood quite simple issues in beekeeping, think about what they can do with complexe environemental and scientific issues. Jim Fisher wrote an article in ABJ about beekeeping and climate change that I found excellent. He addressed those questions. I regret he does not step in anymore in Bee-L debate and I hope he will jump in this debate. There is far enough available information for all of us to make our own opinion and behave in consequence. You want facts, so I suggest to consult only top international research about it. In French, the Cité des Sciences just published the book Annonce d'un boulversement annoncé which is a compendium of very last reaserch in the world about it. In Canada, the - About computer modeling. The Hansmunsen mission concluded, like Californian and other in the world, that 20 to 30 year ago predictions, with the knowledge and the equipment of that time, are confirmed by todays measurements. So scientists are more and more confident with their conclusions, and are more and more skaking the bell. - About natural cycles and sun activity to be responsible of climate change. They were respectively arguments of lobbies in the 70's and in the late 80's. Problem is I, and you, and my small small children would not have to worry about natural cycles that occurs on centuries. Look at the slope of the CO2 curve. Phemenon are not on the same time scale at all. - About global warming and ice age. This is a misunderstanding of information. I think Jim's article was clear about it. Global warming does not mean you will be surfing in Groenland beach tomorrow. It means microclimate will be modified by a global elevation of temperature. Jet stream may not warm Europe as it is now doing and Europe may be colder. It means regional climate will be modified quickly. Very quickly when compared to species adaptation capacity. The biodiversity conference in Paris in early 2005 with the cream of scientists of the subject : endengered species are 1/4 of mamalians species, 1/5 of birds species, 1/3 of batracian species. Beekeeprs will adapt but it is may time to stand up the nose from the two inches road byond our tire and look what the horizon look like. Hervé Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:05:26 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Global Warming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today it is snowing here in Stratford-upon-Avon - not a lot, but more is promised - and having returned from a winter holiday in Kerala, S. India (with lots of beekeeping) on 6 February, I am thinking that I should have stayed another month! Bill asks: outside is snow and 6F. Where is global warming when you need it? Well, as I understand it, global warming will lead (or is leading?) to more unpredictable weather patterns. Certainly, this is true in this area. For example, when I started beekeeping in 1981, we could rely on oilseed rape starting to flower around 3 May, with the main flow in late May. Now, I just cannot predict when it will flower - or yield. A couple of years ago, we had around 150lbs of honey average on hives at the end of April - unheard of, we never have any surplus stored at that time - but on 1 May the weather changed and we had nine weeks of appalling weather - and most of the honey disappeared. The following year, after a dreadful spring, we had to feed bees in late April and then on 1 May everything changed and we had a reasonably good season. Well, it may be global warming which may, or may not be down to us, but it seems to me that three things are indisputable: 1 We have released vast amounts of CO2, that were locked up in fossil fuels, into the atmosphere and those in the USA cannot deny that they have played a major role in this, although others are guilty and it seems likely that China and India will exacerbate the problem; I read last week that China is now an even greater consumer than the USA. 2 We (the human race) have removed huge areas of forest, which again locked up CO2. Whilst the Amazon rain forests are the first that spring to mind, we should also remember that the UK was covered in forest in the not too distant past. 3 CO2 is a greenhouse gas which results in a rise in the earth's temperature. In my view, the biggest problem is the sheer number of human beings. We are the greatest plague that the earth has ever known and, unless we are able to control, and reduce, global population levels, I see little hope for the future of our planet. Will population growth be contained? Realistically, I think not. We have at least two of the world's major religions trying to outbreed everyone else and some developing countries see population numbers as a sign of strength; in India recently I was told with great pride: 'we are now a country of over 1000 million people'! I find that very depressing. Peter Edwards convinced that 'sustainable' and 'development' and mutually exclusive beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:38:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: The beekeeper citizen - was the Bee and the climate In-Reply-To: <20050221202855.46514.qmail@web20821.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to help prolong the semi-off topic discussion. I consider that it is impossible for beekeepers to predict what is going to happen in their particular area, region or country that would enable practical strategies to be put in place. Whilst it appears that the "status quo" that never existed when relating to climate and its consequences is on the move again, how will I be able to predict which new hive model to use. Do I move south, north, up or down? - or emigrate again. When will it be possible to get pollen from Chestnuts in Manitoba? If that does become possible, flowering dates will take time to establish. This especially becoming a fraut task if the date keep changing. Mentioning that word - what about dates? Do they produce a honey crop - and if that is the case, when will I be able to label up such a pot without fear of being prosecuted under the fraudulent labeling policy of Canada as "Canada number 1". I suggest that as an extended group, we note changes based on the periodicity of events critical to a successful apicultural year. Adjust as need be. Hopefully any climatic changes in the next 20, 40, 100 years from what is considered as normal at the present will occur at a gradual rate. If we take note, then we should be able to accommodate. AHB in Alaska should arrive at a pace allowing the authorities to put relative regulations into place. To help in this potential predicament, just read up on how the Canadians dealt with the problem a few decades earlier. Rather chilly here at the present - standing at -14 degrees Celsius with -21 degrees when the sun is out. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:32:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: The beekeeper citizen - Draft message posted - apologies In-Reply-To: <20050221202855.46514.qmail@web20821.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To moderators: please publish these apologies To Bee-L members : My last post was still a very draft when I cicked on the "send" button instead of the "save" button. It was far from finished, English was not reviewed (and worse than usual), ideas were in mess, sentences uncomplete and references unaccurate...and it was too sharp. So trash it, forget it and I will take time to produce a better job on that topic. My apologies, Hervé Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:43:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Donald Aitken Subject: Global warming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hi Peter et al: The earth has an effective way of keeping the temperature constant -- cold air is moved from the poles to the equator and vice versa. If the process speeds up, those of us in the north are going to get colder, not warmer. Its like standing right in front of the air conditioner on a hot day. In any case, given the effectiveness of the transmission of hot air from the tropics and cold air to the tropics, the average temperature is a poor measure of the heat balance of the earth. A better measure is probably the total volume of ice left unmelted. When the ice is gone the whole process is changed completely. Best regards Donald Aitken -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 18/02/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::