From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:38:37 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B2448FD2 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEVNj8013404 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0502D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 112240 Lines: 2462 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:22:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fielder Subject: Re: The beekeeper citizen - was the Bee and the climate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/21/2005 9:27:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, pdillon1@MTS.NET writes: > Mentioning that word - what about dates? Do they produce a honey crop - and > if that is the case, when will I be able to > label up such a pot without fear of being prosecuted under the fraudulent > labeling policy of Canada as > "Canada number 1". > > Being a Beek since 1981, I learnt that that Canada No 1 means the contents meet the No 1 grade as defined (and now patented) by the federal government. If the source of the honey is not Canadian (in this case) then a statement need be included somewhere on the labelling (not necessarily on the front page) where the honey was produced. The Beek is now technically a packer as is anyone using honey that their organisation did not themselves produce. george :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:42:33 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: web mail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just been granted 50 'invitations' to use for Google's G-Mail. I have been using it for the past 2-3 months, and like much of the features. For example, up until today I have not received a single piece of spam! Note: this is a beta project, it is free to the user, and it is only available by invitation. But, I am easy and if you would like an invitation please contact me privately at beegood@gmail.com. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:18:03 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Hangovers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hangover: One of the quickest ways of curing a hangover is to make a banana milkshake, sweetened with honey. The banana calms the stomach and, with the help of the honey, builds up depleted blood sugar levels, while the milk soothes and re-hydrates your system. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:33:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rosalind James Subject: Re: Varroa and "Green Muscle" ?? I would like to clear up a few questions regarding the use of Metarhizium anisopliae for varroa control. I am a researcher for ARS who has been working on this project. First, I would just like to clarify that Green Muscle is a Metarhizium anisopliae product used for grasshopper (locust) control in Africa. The product is really a subspecies of the fungus that is very specific to grasshoppers, and other closely related insects. Thus, it is highly unlikely that it will work on varroa. However, some of the technology developed for Green Muscle is useful in developig a varroa product. Second, the fungus that Bill Ruzicka was working with in the 90's was Hirsutella thompsonii, and we found that the particular strain he worked with was not very pathogenic to varroa in lab bioassays. Other strains can be quite pathogenic. However, that fungus is very difficult to produce and formulate in a product that will work on bees. I am not saying that it can't be done, but I had a very difficult time with it and subsequently gave up the effort. Last, but not least, I really doubt that we will be able to produce the silver bullet for varroa control, and especially not in the form of a pill that you can just drop down the hole in the inner cover. We have been working on ways to apply spores to the hives, but that has not been one of them. Beekeepers will have to apply the fungual spores more than once in the life of a hive, and probably at least once a year. We are still working on the question of just how frequently applications need to be made. The beekeeping industry has been verbally very supportive of this project, and we appreciate that. --Rosalind James :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:41:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Over the last couple of days I've attended meeting from two Connecticut beekeeping clubs, Connecticut Beekeepers and Backyard Beekeepers and here is what I found. We had a small break in the weather and club members who dared to peek in their hives found heavy loses. They had not been surprised as after battling Varroa last year they knew their hives had been weak last fall. These hives crashed after being treated with Apistan, Checkmite and FGMO in a Burgess Insect fogger. One beekeeper told me he examined his dead bees and found the dead Varroa mites still attached to them. What was doubly discouraging was the losses among the "newbees", the first time beekeepers as their hives are three years old or less. One mentor could only shake his head in disgust as he lost is hives along with his student. All is not lost, however. The few that invested in Russian queens are doing well. One sideliner is not only surviving with Italians, his business is growing and thriving. He says he owes his success to keeping his hives strong by requeening in August. He installs his own hand raised queen cells, not bother killing the old queen and claims 80% acceptance. He thinks the break in the brood cycle disrupts the mites. Dr. Larry Conner spoke at both meetings. He is carrying around and passing out one piece "green" plastic drone frames. We are to freeze and/or scrape out the drone brood every 21 days into a "white" bucket. Among his list of suggested actions are: Increasing "good" drone production, to improve the genetics of surrounding colonies in hopes to get some of those good genes back the when your virgin queens go on mating flights. I didn't think to ask how I am going to increasing drone production if I keep scraping the "green" frame into a "white" bucket. :) He did say that some are intentionally killing good queens in the fall so the superseding queen would remain a virgin and become a drone layer early in the spring. Use the "green" drone frames and "white" bucket. Color seems important. :) Invest in resistant, or survivor queens. Used screened bottom boards. Et al. Both clubs suggest that everyone try their hand at queen rearing. FGMO seems a passing fad. Several are going to give Florida's sugar treatments a try. CT Beekeepers pot luck lunch was yummy! Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 06:39:34 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Scraping the green frame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...Increasing "good" drone production, to improve the genetics > of surrounding colonies in hopes to get some of those good > genes back the when your virgin queens go on mating flights. > I didn't think to ask how I am going to increasing drone > production if I keep scraping the "green" frame... I've been thinking for some time, that the fact that varroa damages drones tends, in nature, to reduce the number, vigour and stamina of drones from susceptible hives arriving and hanging out at mating locations. Mating locations also tend to be a bit distant from hives, so I would think that DCAs _should_ be dominated, if nature had her way, with the faster, stronger, and more numerous drones of hives that -- for whatever reason -- are not dragged down much by varroa. Left alone by man, this effect would seem likely to select fairly strongly for hives which were not much affected by varroa. In a situation where beekeepers are constantly working against, or at least diluting this effect, however, by treating colonies, by buying queens and packages from distant beekeepers and by preferentially breeding colonies that meet human needs, I doubt that this natural anti-varroa selection is able to have much influence. Personally, I have always thought that killing drones or thwarting the bees' natural inclination to raise drones is one of the more perverted and counter-productive things that beekeepers do. Just because it sorta works does not make it a good practice. That's just my 2c. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:24:06 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Informed discussion of beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have hit a new high in moderated informed discussion. When I heard "Use the "green" drone frames and "white" bucket. Color seems important. :)" I just knew we were doing our job at serving beekeepers and honey bees! Right up there with FGMO. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:32:18 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "James W. Hock" wrote >>These hives > crashed after being treated with Apistan, Checkmite and FGMO in a Burgess Insect > fogger. Did the patient die from the treatment or the disease? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:48:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Many beekeepers around the world are using multiple treatments in a desperate attempt to control varroa without regards to possible consequences. "James W. Hock" wrote >>These hives > crashed after being treated with Apistan, Checkmite and FGMO in a Burgess Insect fogger. Once a hive reaches a certain point of varroa infestation not even a working 98% control will save the hive and treatment of any kind is a waste of both time & money! Peter asks: Did the patient die from the treatment or the disease? Using both Apistan & Checkmite together causes a contamination which registers higher with the mass spec test than either one alone (Jeff Pettis 2004). Combs with such contamination has caused bees to abscound from the hive according to the bee lab. Much of the hive loss happening in the U.S. today is being traced to three different virus combinations being vectored by varroa as hive infestations rise due to poor varroa control. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:31:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/2005 10:08:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, beekeepers@STRATFORD-UPON-AVON.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: >>These hives > crashed after being treated with Apistan, Checkmite and FGMO in a Burgess Insect > fogger. Did the patient die from the treatment or the disease? These are separate treatments that did not effect the mites in any positive way. FGMO was a last ditch effort to save the hives, possibly to little to late. I sat and talk with a few people to review what they had done to try to figure out what else could have been done. One gentleman monitored his drops daily, followed product labels, sought help from club members and still lost all three of his hives. While it is true that a few people had just been blissfully unaware of what was happening, the balance of the people are educated, informed and experienced. Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:12:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim said; One gentleman monitored his drops daily, followed product labels, sought help from club members and still lost all three of his hives. Monitoring drops has not worked this year. Commercial beekeepers in the U.S. have seen hives crashing which were not even near the needing treatment level as laid out by our researchers. Samples sent to Rothamsted in the U.K. placed the blame on a combination of viruses. Many commercial beekeepers are not willing to spend the money for replacement bees until we get a handle on the problem for fear of a repeat this fall. Jim said: While it is true that a few people had just been blissfully unaware of what was happening, the balance of the people are educated, informed and experienced. Varroa is winning the battle! Commercial beekeepers around the world have been lulled into thinking researchers are going to pull a rabbit out of a hat and save the industry with a new chemical with a 98% efficacy. Not going to happen! As foretold by our best beekeeping minds years ago when beekeepers decided to get on the chemical treadmill: " when the varroa become resistant to the big three chemicals which show 98% control in testing then varroa control will get harder and the virus issue will raise its ugly head". Over a hundred chemicals have shown some efficacy in control of varroa (varroa Handbook 1988) but only three were what the industry saw as effective for the commercial beekeeper. I warned the list years ago the present situation was coming. Even myself or those at Rothamsted could not have imagined the magnitude of the current problem. Jim's friend is worried about three hives. I have personally seen in my travels deadouts in the tens of thousands. Parasitic mite syndrome (PMS) in almost all deadouts . PMS is the term given to virus problems associated with a varroa infestation by Dr. Shiminuki when head of the Beltsville Bee lab. My varroa tolerant bees (Bee Culture Jan. 2005) , those of Purvis Brothers( ABJ Jan. 2005) and Kirk Webster (ABJ March 2005) so far are unaffected by the current virus problems. Of the three above beekeepers I will most likely be the first to test the Russian/Russian bee against the "super varroa" & current virus issue as I am placing a line of Russian yards parallel to yards returning from California with super mites & virus issues for miles. All within flying distance. Will be a real test of the Russian bee. To be fair reports of losses of Russian hives mixed in holding yards with crashing colonies of other races are around as are reports from beekeepers of the Russian bee the only bee left standing in such situations. I need to see for myself. Wish I had better news for the list! Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:47:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I said; I will most likely be the first to test the Russian/Russian bee against the "super varroa" & current virus issue as I am placing a line of Russian yards parallel to yards returning from California with super mites & virus issues for miles. All within flying distance. I might add I had three yards of the jet black Russian/Russian bees within flying distant of yards which belonged to another beekeeper which were wiped out in fall 2004 from super varroa (resistant varroa to both Apistan & checkmite) and deadouts all showed PMS. They are all in good shape and remain untreated. I am running three lines of pure Russian/Russian so I can only give testimony on one line so far against the "super varroa". Not until I can get in those yards and check queen markings will I know how many F1's (hybrids from supercedure & swarming) were involved in those three yards in 2004. I plan to test all three lines against the super varroa this year. All Russian bees are not equal. When you speak of f1's or F2's you get a far ranging scale as to varroa tolerance along with other traits. Time will tell what hybrid combinations are worthwhile. One combination worth talking about I am working on is the pure Russian/Australian 2005 but that's another story. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:20:54 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim reports "While it is true that a few people had just been blissfully unaware of what was happening, the balance of the people are educated, informed and experienced." And he goes on to add that they just about all lost their hives! Well, from Jim's earlier post we know the 'expert' advice is they lost their bees because they used the wrong color bucket. We just have to conclude that no matter what color, it will be wrong. The good news is on the formic front. Some of us remember 5+ years ago and all the excitement about the Betterbee product; which failed due to packaging rather than its efficacy against mites. I got a chance to use the Mite Away product last year and results so far are excellent. Word is that use will be permitted in most if not all states for 2005. You should familiarize yourself with the product by going to www.miteaway.com. While it is not a cure-all it is sure one heck of a good step forward for those of us in the northern states where we have a good window for use in the fall. Unfortunately, it is not a good treatment for those who live in areas where temperatures in the 80's persist until late in the year. Those temperatures cause the formic to release too quickly, with damage to the bees. If the beekeeper waits until December/January for consistent temperatures below 80 degrees, she is likely to lose her hives from mites before she gets a chance to treat. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:22:44 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Greek honey with PDB residues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New honey warning targets batch of Greek imports! See: > http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=3D18492&cat_id=3D1 Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:52:09 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bob, Can these viruses spread directly from bee to bee or is the mite the only transfer mechanism involved? And do you have plans to mass produce and sell your Russian queens? Regards, Waldemar Long Island, NY >>I have personally seen in my travels deadouts in the tens of thousands. Parasitic mite syndrome (PMS) in almost all deadouts . PMS is the term given to virus problems associated with a varroa infestation by Dr. Shiminuki when head of the Beltsville Bee lab. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:38:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar asks: Can these viruses spread directly from bee to bee or is the mite the only transfer mechanism involved? Acording to Rothamsted in the U.K.. The viruses are in the hive and the varroa are the vectors. My friend Dr. Norman Carrick warned me the problem was coming years ago and even trusted me by sending his future Apimunda paper on the subject for me to read. I admit Norman was right back then but I don't believe Norman or Dr. Brenda Ball foresaw the magnatude of the virus problem *or* maybe they did but were afraid to say so at the time (which is typical of researchers). Perhaps Dr. Carrick or Dr. Brenda Ball might comment on BEE-L on the current world virus crisus. And do you have plans to mass produce and sell your Russian queens? We do but we will never be able to supply the demand. We have decided to concentrate on quality rather than quantity. Early dates for this year are gone but we might be able to supply mid summer. We hope to provide packages of pure Russian next year but many beekeepers are already on the waiting list. All booking for this year is being handled at either Purvisbrothersbees.com or mountain-honey.com. I am gearing up to supply Russian packages next year but only because I have got the bees and the industry needs the bees as I retired in 1998. I picked up my income tax forms from my CPA about an hour ago and she rocked back in her chair and said: " I plan to retire in a couple years but when I do I don't want to retire like you!" I love beekeeping and love the beekeeping industry! I spent two long days a couple weeks ago trying to come up with a solution for the current beekeeping crisis with the largest beekeeper the world has ever seen and in my opinion ever will. I came away without a solution. His solution was to shut down and wait for a solution. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:49:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, The "Speedy Bee" (published by Troy Fore) came today. Front page headlines: "Colonies Reeling from Coast-To -Coast; Varroa blamed for Massive Bee Die-Off." The article says two teams from two bee labs have been sent to California to survey the problem and take samples. Troy also says : " estimates have been placed at 50% of the bees in California, with some beekeepers losing 75-80% of their bees." Perhaps Mr Fore will comment as he reads BEE-L and comments from time to time. Sincerely, Bob Harrison To be an informed beekeeper subscribe to "The Speedy Bee, Bee Culture & the American Bee Journal" in the U.S. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:35:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? In-Reply-To: <000001c51a83$f385d740$08bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob Harrison wrote: Over a hundred chemicals have shown some efficacy in control of varroa (varroa Handbook 1988) but only three were what the industry saw as effective for the commercial beekeeper. Inquiry: Is this list available? Where can one get a copy of this list and/or Varroa Handbook? Page references? Thanks. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:11:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? In-Reply-To: <20050225033558.17360.qmail@web41521.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Searching for information relating to different treatment techniques against the varroa mite: Try the site below and download the mentioned text. http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/pests-diseases/animals/varroa/guidelines/control.htm Should help fill in any gaps. I know that there are many others! Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:11:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I got a > chance to use the Mite Away product last year and results so far are > excellent... The people I know up here who have used Mite Away or a similar pad have had variable results and have moved to other treatments. One of the problems with single-shot applications is that a fixed, rather large dose is placed on the hive, and is expected to be released over quite a long period. The problem is that weather in most regions during ideal treatment 'time windows' tends to be very unpredictable, and the beekeeper is often unable to predict or control the release. If the weather happens to be ideal, then a good result is achieved. If weather turns out hot, release may be too fast. If weather is cool, release may be slower than expected. A beekeeper could go and fiddle with the treatment and try to open or close the holes in the plastic, and some have done so, but IMO other formic techniques offer more control and limited potential for damage. For example, the multiple pad (Mite-Wipe is one name for it) treatment requires more visits, but a limited dose, designed to be correct for immediate release each time, is placed on the hive, and provides multiple 'shots' of short duration, one after each visit. > Unfortunately, it is not a good treatment for those who live in areas > where temperatures in the 80's persist until late in the year. Those > temperatures cause the formic to release too quickly, with damage to > the bees... As far as I know, any formic treatment can kill brood, but from what I have heard, the long duration methods tend to have an effect that may turn out to be lasting and adversely affect production in some situations. I have not heard that said of the short duration methods. These treatments are discussed on various links for the 'Selected Topics' page at http://www.honeybeeworld.com, and there are pictures of our use of the small pad method on the site. Whatever method is chosen, use of formic requires more thought and monitoring, and can have more variable results than Apistan and Checkmite+ have historically displayed. A big advantage of formic is that it hits tracheal mites even harder and faster than it hits varroa. In fact, I wonder how many of the losses reported are caused by tracheal or by tracheal combined with varroa. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 01:42:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 23 Feb 2005 to 24 Feb 2005 (#2005-56) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all. I dislike the idea of playing "devils advocate" but in this case it seems as if this is the best way to describe my position regarding what beekeepers are calling "super mite" . I do not believe this to be an appropriate description. Yes, the mites have becomed resistant to chemcial pesticides used for their control lewading to massive hive losses. As everyone should know, massive mite infestations weaken hives and secondary diseases occur, mainly viral, but not necessarily the only ones. The end result is that hives crash due to inability to cope with the sanitary state of the hive. Those of you who have read my articles will have noticed that I designed an experiment and proved the source of overwhelming mite infestations. Hive crashing is not the result of "super mites," it is the result of too many mites suddenly introduced in the hive. The rest of the story is completed when other germs normally present in most hives, take over. There will not be any "silver bullet" ! ever. The only hope lies in utilization of non-chemical treatments to which the mites can not develop resistance combined with integrated pest management techniques. Does this statement sound familiar? It should. I have been writing about it for at least five years, to wit, articles posted on www.beesorce.com/pov/FGMO/rodriguez Best regards and God bless. Dr. Rodriguez Proclaiming The Lord´s expression and creation with our honey bees. __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:55:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: The real story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Every commercial beekeeper loses half their colonies every year" This was a statement made to me this year by a commercial = beekeeper. Is it any different this year than others? I went to one of = the meetings that the initial writer of "Super-varroa in CT" went to. I = heard what he heard but I've been hearing the same thing for years. In short, how much of this "super varroa" is rumor or exaggeration? Dick Marron :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 07:29:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Super Varroa in Connecticut? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Grant asks: Inquiry: Is this list available? I have got the list but the information is covered by copyright. Where can one get a copy of this list and/or Varroa Handbook? Varroa handbooks are hard to find and out of print now. I have got a copy and our clubs library has a copy. You could try the publisher for information as he is a bookseller. Perhaps Larry would scan and send the list to you? Larry is a friend of mine and I can quote from the list but not scan and send the list without his permission. Wicwas Press LLC Larry Conner ebeebooks@aol.com Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:29:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Bogansky,Ronald J." Subject: Varroa Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, On Saturday March 12th, the Pennsylvania State Beekeepers Association will be holding seminar on current varroa treatment options, entitled Living With Varroa. The all day event is being hosted by the Lehigh Valley Beekeepers Association and is located at the Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, PA. Schnecksville is approximately 5 miles north (on rt. 309) of Allentown, PA in the Lehigh Valley. It is easily accessible from Interstates 78 or 476 via routes 22 and 309. Speakers will include: Maryann Frazer, Penn State University, Mike Stanghellini, Rutgers University, Dennis Keeney, PA Beekeeper and Queen Breeder Jim Bobb & Bill Mondjack, PA Beekeepers and PSBA officers. Registration fee is $20 in advance, by March 1, (sorry for short notice) or $25 at the door. There will be an optional lunch provided for an additional $8. Mail registration fee and lunch payment to: Yvonne Crimbring RD1 Box 315 Canton, PA 17724 For more information contact: Jim Bobb (610) 584-6778 JimBobb@GCT21.net Or Bill Mondjack (610) 264-0494 BillzBeez@enter.net Hope to see you there. Ron Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA Living With Varroa; Our Current Treatment Options Date: March 12, 2005 9:00 Introduction - Bill Mondjack Where are we, where do we want to be and how do we get there? 9:20 Varroa - Our #1 Enemy - Maryann Frazier Biology and Background Viruses Population growth - bees and mites Environmental factors Monitoring Mite Levels - Checking drone brood Natural drop Sugar roll and ether rolls 10:00 Treatment Options Background and Research - Mike Stanghellini Chemicals Apistan (Fluvalinate) CheckMite (Coumaphos) The "Pettis test" Biopesticides Apilife VAR (Thymol) Sucrocide (Sucrose Octanoate Esters) Formic Acid ApiGuard Cinnamon oil 11:00 Application - Jim Bobb and Bill Mondjack Apilife VAR (Thymol) - (Bill) Sucrocide (Sucrose Octanoate Esters) - (Bill) Formic Acid - (Jim) 12:00 - 1:00 Lunch - Available as an option on or off campus. 1:00 Alternate treatments; cultural controls - Speakers T.B.A. Small cell size Break in brood cycle- Queen caging Use of screened bottom boards Treatments in the news - Fungus - Metarhizium anisopliae 1:30 Varroa resistant stock - Dennis Keeney Hygienic, SMR and Russian stock Selecting from your own stock Purchasing hygienic queens Known breeders/suppliers of such queens 2:30 Evaluating Treatments - Maryann Frazier 3:00 - 4:00 Roundtable Discussion Bill Mondjack Jim Bobb Dennis Keeney Mike Stanghellini (Rutgers Univ.) Maryann Frazier (Penn. State Univ.) Date: March 12, 2005 Place: Lehigh Carbon Community College, 4525 Education Park Dr., Schnecksville, PA 18078 Room #113 & #115 in Administrative Building COST: Advance registration - $20.00/person. Lunch, optional At the door - $25.00 Registration deadline: March 1, 2005 Send remittance to: Yvonne Crimbring, RD 1 Box 315, Canton, PA 17724 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:31:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Ruzicka Subject: Corrosion and Formic Acid In response to questions on FORMIC ACID and CORROSION and SAFETY: In response to the question on CORROSION: Only contact with liquid acid or condensed fumes causes corrosion. Using the MiteGone method the fumes will not penetrate anything that is coated with wax or propolis. In response to the question of SAFTEY: Please download the 32 page handbook from our website www.mitegone.com. The last 2 pages are on safety and respirators. We have handled acid in Canada since 1995 with no accidents. The key is to have good gloves; one pair of gloves is used exclusively for handling acid and are not used for anything else; they are tested for leaks by blowing. When you are handling acid, all hives are already prepared for the pads to be placed in the hive. Also, only one person is designated to handle the acid. This person does not handle, lift or move anything else in order to prevent making holes or puncturing the gloves. Even a small amount of acid in contact with skin will result in a blister but it is easily avoided by following the above rule. I hope this helps! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:37:43 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Formic acid and Mite-Away Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen is, of course (meaning that I have become used it), correct when he says that use of formic acid in pads such as Mite-Away has variable results. But I note, and hereby point out to all, that Allen is not claiming to have personally used the product. I also note that Mite-Away's current product is MiteAway II, and is distinct from MiteAway I, which failed to properly release the formic. I wonder which product Allen's aquaintences used? However, I do not believe that anyone has ever implied that Mite-Away is an appropriate product for all climate conditions. I certainly did not mean to. I would also like to be clear that I do not have anything other than a commercial relationship with the company or its principals. Given all that, Mite-Away was developed by a commercial beekeeper in an area of Canada that experiences long, cold winters, a spring that is so delayed it can sometimes be non existent, a warm intense few weeks of summer, and an early frost date in the fall. For the benefit of those not familar with Eastern Canada and Western New York State, these weather conditions are 'normal'. However, there is a 'lake effect' geographic band along the western end of Lake Erie, Eastern end of Lake Ontario, up into Canada for perhaps 20 miles and down into New York for the same distance. Along this band, peaches, cherries, plums, and other semi-hardy fruits are grown. While this area often has bone chilling cold with wind effect temperatures of 30 degrees below 0 (C or F), it also receives abundant snow (200 inches is not uncommon). Somehow all these factors combine to result in a 'fruit belt' that is unique to the area. This is NOT the area where Mite-Away was developed. In the icebox area where Mite-Away was developed and which is shared by ourselves in upstate New York as well as Vermont, Maine, most of New Hampshire, Nothern Michigan, etc., we reliabily have weather conditions that may result in the Mite-Away product being effective. I personally have little doubt that in areas with significantly warmer temperatures Mite-Away will not be satisfactory. The product description (www.miteaway.com) says that three weeks of controlled exposure is necessary in order to kill mites on bees as well as a satisfactory number of mites emerging from brood. Areas of the North American continent and other international areas without similar climate conditions are unlikely to have satisfactory results. For wahtever it means, I did not try Mite Away until after first checking with Medhat Nasr, a respected entomoligst who worked on the product while he was in Eastern Canada, and hearing Nick Calderone from Cornell express his view that the product would be very useful to those of us in upstate NY. Based on just one use, in the fall of 2004, and seeing my bees now compared with how they were at this time in recent years, I am very enthuastic. Time will tell whether that enthuasism is justified. There is another method of using formic in these hostile climates. That is the 'flash' method. You can learn more at http://www.reineschapleau.wd1.net/index.html. Jean-Paul is a respected researcher. As always, I hope these comments help those who aspire to become better beekeepers or to otherwise improve their husbandry. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:20:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Formic acid and Mite-Away MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Allen is not claiming to have personally used the product. That is true, but I did investigate it thoroughly at the time Medhat was in Ontario and he was working on the method(and he was very much in favour of it at that time), and I decided other methods were much more attractive to me. > I also note that > Mite-Away's current product is MiteAway II, and is distinct from > MiteAway I, which failed to properly release the formic. I wonder > which product Allen's aquaintences used? I think that they used an earlier version, not that there are huge differences. The product has gone through a series of improvements, and at each stage, word was that the problems were solved. AFAIK, it is mainly the size and shape of the holes that keeps changing. Perhaps there are other changes, too, but I am not aware of them. > However, I do not believe that anyone has ever implied that Mite-Away > is an appropriate product for all climate conditions. I certainly did > not mean to. I would also like to be clear that I do not have > anything other than a commercial relationship with the company or its > principals. Nope, you did not, and your report is much appreciated, particuarly since you report success. Obviously the method works. My only caveat is that results have been reported to be quite variable, with possible collateral damage. I'm hoping you monitored your mites before and after and also the effect on brood and subsequent honey production. If you did, and can share that info, it might help me look more favourably on the method. > Based on just one use, in the fall of 2004, and seeing my bees now > compared with how they were at this time in recent years, I am very > enthuastic. Time will tell whether that enthuasism is justified. That's true, and it would be really helpful to know what your mite levels were before and after, and since, because we all know that time and time again, beekeepers often report their bees look "great", just before they crater from varroa. > There is another method of using formic in these hostile climates. > That is the 'flash' method. You can learn more at > http://www.reineschapleau.wd1.net/index.html. Jean-Paul is a > respected researcher. I like that method. I like it a lot, even though, just like the Mite Away, it requires extra equipment. In the latter, though, the extra equipment is a floor with a drawer for checking drop and applying acid. It stays under the hive and is not an extra piece of stuff to put on and off and haul around. That being said, I have never tried either of those two methods. > As always, I hope these comments help those who aspire to become > better beekeepers or to otherwise improve their husbandry. Amen. We share that goal. ...And monitor and monitor and monitor. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ Did I mention beekeepers should monitor their mite loads? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:17:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: The real story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "Every commercial beekeeper loses half their colonies every year" > This was a statement made to me this year by a commercial > beekeeper. I always figured about 30% if no attempts are made to save hives in which queens die or go bad during the season. In summer, with brood chambers way down there under supers, or in winter under snow -- or half a continent away -- for a commercial beekeeper, intervening is often not an option, so 30% is pretty normal. Maybe where the queens are laying all year, 50% is normal. > Is it any different this year than others? I went to one > of the meetings that the initial writer of "Super-varroa in CT" went > to. I heard what he heard but I've been hearing the same thing for > years... In short, how much of this "super varroa" is rumor or > exaggeration? IMO, it's only Super Varroa if your Kryptonite isn't working. If it is, and you haven't poisoned your hives by now with approved and unapproved treatments, you probably won't notice anything unusual. The problem, IMO, is that many beekeepers are not monitoring, and if they are monitoring varroa, maybe they have forgotten about tracheal or other problems. Moreover, after years of putting a variety of chemicals and herbs, etc. into hives, the hives are contaminated to the point where the bees are stressed, even without a varroa load. All treatments -- including formic and oxalic -- are hard on bees. If bees are already under stress from a build up of chemicals in the hive and from a series of failed or partially successful attempts at treatment with Apistan, Checkmite+, plus other things from the environment, they will be much more vulnerable to weather, viruses, new treatments, etc., and many hives may well just die out, even if the varroa is reduced to what *should * be a safe threshold. We must realise, too, that admitting that one's hives are poisoned and one's bees died from a lot of things adding up -- including the very measures meant to save them, is not easy to do. It is much easier to keep looking for a villain, then, when viruses or diseases that seldom proved fatal to any great extent before are found, to blame them. When going back to the bank for more $$$, or having to tell your friends -- or your wife -- why your bees are dead and you are broke, which would you find easier? 1.) Say that your hives died because you poisoned them and your hives are now worthless, OR 2.) Say that some new, mysterious virus took you down in spite of your heroic efforts? As long as I have been a beekeeper, there have periodically been reports of widespread and somewhat unexplained bee losses. And, all that time, some beekeepers lost their bees over and over, and other beekeepers seldom suffered serious losses. Super Varroa? I doubt it. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:58:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Mite-Away I and II In-Reply-To: <000901c51b6f$23a25c50$55ad5ad1@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello All, Is it MiteAway I or MiteAway II? I worked in developing MiteAway product when I was in Ontario. I also named it MiteAway. MiteAway is and continues to be a successful product. Beekeepers can make their own pads from materials available in the market. MiteAway was tested in NY with Nick Calderon from Cornel University. When the pads were tested, fall was cold. We realized that the tiny holes were small and bees were able to seal the holes in clod spring or fall. To improve the efficacy and make the efficacy more consistent, I found that after 10-15 days of applying the pads on the top bars in the hive, 100-150 ml of 65% evaporated. Then, making three slits 3" long in the perforated bags will increase the evaporation for the following 10 days. The efficacy reached 93% (+/- 5%). This method of application was very safe and reliable. It would not harm the brood or bees if the temperature was too high or too cold. In fact beekeepers used the product with the described modification successfully. They made their own pads using veggie plastic bags, Tentest board and 65% formic acid. By the way some beekeepers continues to use MiteAway I. I moved to New Jersey for a job at Rutgers University. The question has become is it a single application or a single application requires two trips to the field!!!!NOD decided at that time to go with bigger holes to increase the evaporation rates. As the pads applied on the top bars, formic will be evaporated at higher rates and no need for making slits after 10-15 days. As the modification done on the holes, the product was then called MiteAwayII. Materials used and the method of application in both types I or II are the same. Of course MiteAway II will be a single visit application. Some beekeepers using MiteAway II showed some concern. If the ambient temperature is high, brood could be affected as reported in some areas. I am glad that the product has been used in various places to help in controlling varroa and tracheal mites. From my experiences with all of these chemicals, One single recommendation will not fit all regions and beekeeping practices. The proper window and the correct method of application have to be defined to get the expected efficacy with minimal damage to bees. Monitoring before and after treatment is a must. medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:12:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kim Flottum Subject: More of the story... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have to agree with Allen on this. Premite days, losses were in the 20% range on average (Roger Hoopingarner and I have good data on this), and after tracheal mites became established, then varroa, the average went to 30% (again, I have pretty good data on this). These averages are for, primarily, non-migratory commercial and sideline outfits...those that are, generally, schooled in bee management. Migratory keepers have higer losses due to queen loss and extreme stresses. My figures go to the 40% or so average for these, but this may be low. That 50% average isn't out of the question, certainly. The losses reported this spring must be considered with those losses in tow, you know. However, I have some data from this year also, from a survey of about 100 or so beekeepers - ranging from hobby to huge commercial spread out across the U.S. And, I've checked with bee brokers in CA, and commercial people in FL and TX...and, when added, the losses are much closer to the typical 30 - 40% than higher. 'Some, of course have experienced the full losses reported, but then some do every year. Still, 35% of the million+ hives in CA is around 350,000 colonies of bees not there anymore. But, this is what happened last year if you recall (but there were other mitigating factors then...see below), and the previous year in my surveys...so, super varroa, maybe not. I mourn the loss of even one hive that is supporting the livlihood of any beekeeper, anywhere. However, one factor must be considered that hasn't been added to the mix in this...all the news stories, all the hyperbole from beekeepers, almond growers and bee magazine editors...there are fewer beekeepers running fewer bees this year than last....or there probably are. This due to the flagging economics of keeping bees as a business. (the USDA report comes out Monday, which may shed some light on this). And varroa certainly has made major contributions to this loss. As have the other stresses. Virus, sure, it's there. rAFB, sure, that too. Poisoned hives, yup, they too added to the mix of reasons there are (probably) fewer bees and beekeepers. But so has pesticide loss, inexpensive imported honey, increasing costs of fuel, insurance, labor, equipment and everything else. Super varroa, maybe. Less than adequate beekeeping, yup, but...super bad business environment, definitely. Just like Allen said. Kim Flottum Editor, BeeCulture 623 West Liberty Street Medina, Ohio 44256 V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 Fax - 330.725.5624 Kim@BeeCulture.com www.BeeCulture.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:36:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Mite-Away I and II MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > One single recommendation will not fit all regions > and beekeeping practices. The proper window and the correct method of > application have to be defined to get the expected efficacy with > minimal damage to bees. Monitoring before and after treatment is a > must. Thanks for stepping up to the plate, Medhat. I guess the message is that we have to think about what we are doing, and measure. On an entirely different tack, how was the value-added tour to Quebec? allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:37:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: More of the story... In-Reply-To: <8518F15BB956014C90B2E2CC0D4C4F9FA8DB8B@w2k3telnet.root.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Advice sought! I am getting rather confused, having regard to the events in the global honey market during the last 3 or so years. Beekeepers are being advised / pressurized via. different food standard agencies to improved production methods and hygiene. Some of the programs directly involving apicultural associations and representative bodies. This is apparently taking place due to public pressure, awareness, education and want of information. It is resulting in new equipment being deployed, new or upgrading in buildings and structures. Changes in disease treatment techniques. Final product once delivered to packers and Co-operatives etc. is then analyzed for residues, HMF levels, humidity, evidence of poor handling amongst a multitude of other tests. A cheque(s) is then finally received as payment for all the effort and dedication. One that will be expected to allow a business to prosper, advance in a manner that the controlling authorities require and support members of a family group. My confusion arises with the following: I am under the impression that the value of my cheque is based upon the price per unit of a final product - one that undercuts all or many the above requirements (that I am being obliged to make). This appears to be resulting in me having to work with first world costs, with first world staff in first world conditions to receive third world reward. The reward level fixed as many prefer to buy third world products at third world prices. Products that first world authorities are constantly having to develop techniques to show up adulterations and underhand practices. Such practices being presumably one of the major reasons for predominant product pricing. When such practices are shown to be present, global prices are corrected, appear to rise to a level that allows for proper business prosperity in a first world environment. During such a period, the opinion is often held that suggests "we are doing better than we deserve". Would in not be better to start operating in the same manner as third world countries? - dilute, add, filter out evidence, ship judiciously and label in such a manner that the final eating public are not really aware of what is happening - even though they think they are. Whatever is thought of my honey, it could be cleaned up and shipped out to Europe. A market at present lost due to it containing GM pollen bits. Maybe even, adding a fair percentage of syrup type stuff and developing a market in China. As long as the price is good, the packers don't seem to mind. Reverse present day trends. So, my question is: Instead of pushing for top production conditions and final product quality, would it not better to leave that to the hobbyist and niche market? Those concerned with commercial honey production should maybe pushing National representatives to lobby controlling authorities to totally relax not tighten regulations. IMHO, business prosper, cash come in, costs cut, profit rise and the final customer be none the wiser. OR, Clean up the market and have genuinely sold what we are forever being told to do. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:45:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: CYANIDE PROBE CONCLUDES SUCCESSFULLY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It says eleven businesses and individuals have been fined for $189,000 for violations of the states pesticide laws. http://www.agdepartment.com/2005Press/other050223.htm Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:00:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Beekeeping Industry Lines Up for Major Fight Against Tiny Foe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More on AOL news... http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/business/article.adp?id=20050224082909990001 Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Healing honey In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit About two years ago, my hand was operated on for Dupuytren's Disease. The disease causes your fingers to curl down into a claw. It is genetic and if any of your ancestors was a Viking, you have a good chance of getting it. It is often mistaken for arthritis. The operation cuts the fascia of the palm leaving a long deep wound that takes a while to heal and leaves quite a bit of scar tissue. In addition, cuts are made in the offending fingers as well as other parts of the palm. I had four areas of surgery with two to four cuts in each area. I tried to convince my Doctor to let me use honey to heal the wound and gave him quite a bit of data from the New Zealand work with honey and wounds. He refused, but three weeks after the operation, normal methods were going nowhere, so he let me use it. The results were spectacular. Even after the delay, my hand healed faster and I got movement back sooner than normal. So when I went in for my other hand, last December, my Doctor was not only a convert, he had enlisted other doctors into looking at honey for healing wounds after surgery. I was going to be the poster child. The results are even better than the firs time, since he let me start using it five days after the operation. Yesterday I went in for my visit and have full movement in my hand and little scar tissue. I do not have to go back again. The Doctor and physical therapist are definite converts. He has a load of pictures and intends to give a presentation to his peers on using honey after hand surgery. Today, less than three months after the surgery, My hand is slightly swollen but the wounds are nearly invisible from three feet or so. The areas around the wounds are soft, which continues to amaze mt physical therapist. She wants to make a separate presentation.. I am not sure where this may go, since the main drawback to its use is the patient. I was the one who applied it, but that is the case with all who go through this operation. It is a bit messy and can get on your clothes as well as bedding, but it washes out easily. The main benefit is quick healing and you get full use of your hand back much sooner. In fact, many who have the operation will still have curling because of scar tissue, while I have none. Honey is amazing stuff. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:03:19 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Healing honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Bill Truesdell" wrote about the healing power of honey after surgery. Bill Thanks for sharing that with us - it is just one more example of the amazing power of honey. I have had two experiences of this power. First, my wife suffered for many years from chilblains on an enlarged big-toe joint - rather like a bunion. She tried everything that doctors could suggest for many years. Then we started keeping bees and I suggested using honey. A teaspoonful of honey was put on the smooth side of some lint and applied to the very raw and inflamed chilblain before going to bed. Cling film was wrapped around to stop leakage and some sticking plaster applied to hold it all in place. The next morning the improvement was quite unbelievable and after three days the area had healed completely. Some years later, I had a nasty incident involving a blowtorch. I was sat on the floor doing some plumbing and having finished with the blowtorch, put it down beside me. Just seconds later, I had finished what I was doing and went to get up; in doing so, I absentmindedly put my hand on the red-hot nozzle of the blowlamp and put my full weight on it. There was a hissing sound and I looked in horror at my hand. The flesh on my palm was severely burnt, with a lot of white flesh and a large blister starting to appear. I put my hand under cold running water for over ten minutes, but the pain was still intense as soon as I removed it from the stream of cold water. I then applied a large quantity of honey and bandaged it up. It was painful for days but, despite a blister covering most of the palm of my hand, it all healed perfectly, with no skin shed. Today there is no scar visible. I still have difficulty believing that it could have healed so perfectly. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:09:20 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron/Eefje van Mierlo Subject: Re: Healing honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Responding to Peter and Bill's inputs: Some questions that come to mind are: >From which flower did the honey in your cases originate? Was it liquid or creamy honey that was applied? Have you noticed the reports on Jarrah honey, that is supposed to have an even 50% higher anti-bacterial activity than Manuka honey? So in cases where a bacterial problem exists, it might be good to try that. I took some with me from Western Australia 5 weeks ago and will try to import more. The problem with the Jarrah tree is that they only exist in some areas of W-Australia and they are by now low in numbers. The tree only flowers every other year. They are threathened by the die-back disease and bush- fires have taken their toll as well. I must admit that in my early days in W-Australia, I have chopped down Jarrah and other trees that are now considered rare. At the time not a beekeeper and not realizing that their numbers could go down so quickly, not realizing either what significance Jarrah honey would get. In your cases however there was no mention of problems with bacteria so perhaps any good honey would have worked. Manuka or Jarrah honey could then still have been used, but as an extra safeguard to keep any unwanted bacteria from getting a chance? Ron van Mierlo Sweden :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:02:27 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Healing honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron asked: > From which flower did the honey in your cases originate? Local honey - very mixed - oil seed rape, apple, blackberry, clover, hawthorn, lime (tilia spp) etc. > Was it liquid or creamy honey that was applied? Have used both - it makes no difference to the wound/burn/infection as the warmth of your body will melt set honey very quickly; set is easier to apply as it does not drip everywhere! > Have you noticed the reports on Jarrah honey, that is supposed to have > an even 50% higher anti-bacterial activity than Manuka honey? > So in cases where a bacterial problem exists, it might be good to try that. It might be if we had it available - but as far as I can see, our local honey is able to kill bacteria quite adequately (I have never seen any infection in a wound treated with it) so why pay six times the price of local honey (yes, six times!) for manuka - especially when I have a couple of tons of local honey in my honey house? Peter Edwards (thinking that an awful lot of clever marketing is behind manuka honey - perhaps more than is justified) beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:07:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Healing honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Getting up there toward retirement age, last year I went to the doctor for a general physical, not having had one for many years. As we chatted during the exam, I mentioned to the doctor that I kept bees as a hobby, and I asked him about the healing properties of honey. He said since there is very little ‘free water’ available in supersaturated solutions such as honey, bacteria are killed by dehydration. He told me supersaturated solutions of table sugar in water will accomplish the same thing. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:23:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Healing honey In-Reply-To: <003501c51cf6$81a601c0$c48287d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Edwards wrote: > Peter Edwards > (thinking that an awful lot of clever marketing is behind manuka honey - > perhaps more than is justified) My experience is almost exactly like Peters. Local honey and I did try both liquid and granulated. I stuck with liquid since it was easier to apply (with a Honey Bear!). If you look in the Hive and the Honey Bee, honey acts in a variety of ways. First is is a supersaturated sugar solution (also used as such with sucrose in medicine) in which bacteria do not do well. Second it is acid, in which bacteria do not do well. Third is the gluconic acid which breaks down in the presence of water to hydrogen peroxide. That is the key to most of the touted antibacterial action of honey. If most honey is brought in and not capped quickly, it will develop higher levels of the acid so it will be more active. My guess is the nectar is thinner so it has to stay uncapped longer to drive off moisture so more acid develops (from enzymes imparted to the nectar by the bees). (Gross stuff follows)What happens at the wound/honey interface is the moisture from the wound (blood and lymph matter) hits the honey and peroxide is formed. The peroxide eats away dead flesh and the wound heals from the bottom up. So you get nothing but new skin and little or no scarring. Without the honey, most wounds scab over and scar tissue is formed. Before I ever thought of trying it with my hand in my first operation, I tried it on some superficial cuts. The honey worked as well or better than antibacterial creams. So now I have a small syringe (purchased at a local feed store) with honey in it to apply to the dressing on a band-aid for minor cuts. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:50:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lyle Greenwood Subject: Healing Honey Last summer I cut the top off my knuckle, deep enough you could see the white bone. After I got the bleeding stopped with paper towels, I poured peroxide on it one time, then I put honey (North Alabama wild flower)on a Band Aid, and kept it on day and night. It never got red around it or any sign of infection. I'm diabetic and heal to slow, but in 10 days it was pretty well healed up, with no scarring. I look at it now and can't remember which knuckle it was. Lyle Greenwood Alabama, USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:49:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Feeding with pollen In-Reply-To: <4220CC3B.1050407@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is it possible to give freezed or autoclaved (to reduce disease spreading risk) pollen to bees. How much is the risk reduce by freezing ? What would be the Temp-time combination for autoclaving ? Hervé Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:22:50 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Healing honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill wrote: > If you look in the Hive and the Honey Bee, honey acts in a variety of > ways. First is is a supersaturated sugar solution (also used as such > with sucrose in medicine) in which bacteria do not do well. This is due to osmosis. The cell wall of a bacterium is a semi-permeable membrane, so when it is placed in a supersaturated solution, the bacterium is effectively dried out and it dies. (Osmosis occurs when solutions with different concentrations are placed on opposite sides of a semi-permeable membrane. Water then passes through the membrane until the concentrations are equalised). Clearly, this can also be achieved by treating wounds with a supersaturated solution of plain sugar. However, as Bill has pointed out, in the case of honey there are other factors, such as the production of hydrogen peroxide by the action of glucose oxidase. Until fairly recently, it was believed that these two modes of action accounted for the healing properties of honey, but fairly recent articles in Bee World (I think - it is too late to look them up!) showed that there are many, many more ways in which honey fights infection and actually promotes healing. Another great advantage of using honey is that it prevents the dressings sticking to the wound, so that they can be removed without damage. How often in the past have we pulled off a plaster, only to re-open the wound? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:26:31 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen In-Reply-To: <20050227214908.76189.qmail@web20822.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Herve, Pollen as a feed ingredient outside its natural supply route into bee colonies sure is interesting. Addition of pollen to patties is more than suggested as a method of getting pollen substitute accepted by bees. You enquire about the possibility of autoclaving pollen to reduce possible disease problems. Pollen is used as a fatty acid and protein/amino acid source for colony nutrition. By autoclaving, the protein (amino acid) components are going to be denatured - resulting in an altered / damaged molecular configuration. This will render the material less nutritious - if not nigh on useless. Once in this state, is the pollen any better than available commercial/homemade pollen substitute? The attractiveness of the pollen grain may still be present - resulting in an increased uptake of the material/patty. This may lead the beekeeper into thinking that an advantage to the colony is being delivered. As the material is now containing denatured molecules, is its nutritional value really much better than attractive fine sawdust? Sure, there are minerals, fatty acids that will help where limited supply of these components exists. I suggest that the main reason for pollen supply in a substitute is for the protein fraction. Conventional freezing? Chaotic dehydration will lead to nutrient loss as cellular integrity is removed. Pollen that has undergone irradiation presumably suffers from the above as well. To supply pollen - would it not be best to only use fresh pollen mixed into a paste by the addition of honey - both coming from sources that you know and trust. This then being made available to the bee colonies. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Healing honey In-Reply-To: <002601c51d23$42f2dac0$cacd87d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a recent report of using it in a non-healing wound in an elephant. I can look up the reference should anyone want it. Keith Peter Edwards wrote: >Bill wrote: > > > >>If you look in the Hive and the Honey Bee, honey acts in a variety of >>ways. First is is a supersaturated sugar solution (also used as such >>with sucrose in medicine) in which bacteria do not do well. >> >> > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:32:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Pollen that has undergone irradiation presumably suffers from the > above as well. AFAIK, pollen that has been irradiated properly loses no measurable nutritional qualities in the process. IMO it likely loses more in the *time* it takes to travel to the facility and back than in the irradiation process, since *time*, and temperature, is the enemy of pollen quality for bee feed purposes. > To supply pollen - would it not be best to only use fresh pollen... Fresh pollen is a major cause of spread of disease. I learned that the hard way. Even if I trapped my own, I would irradiate it before feeding. And, AFAIK, freezing has no significant negative effect on pollen for bee feed, but greatly slows pollen's loss of protein and other essential properties. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:02:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen In-Reply-To: <001301c51d35$62bc58b0$b77ba8c0@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Allen, Pollen under low temp. conditions appears to be able to maintain its integrity, apparently due to its inherent low humidity levels. Interesting read from an individual in France selling pollen for Human consumption - stored in freezer conditions and under Nitrogen gas http://www.pollen-online.com/ Also read: http://plant-tc.coafes.umn.edu/listserv/2000/log0004/msg00081.html Maybe the latter reference is not ideal when relating to the original point asked! - but ideal is a rare commodity. You mention Irradiated pollen - I wonder if the radiation does not "smash" through the DNA, and other molecular material - disrupting its structure. I realise that the pollen would not be passed through an emitter source several times - but wood that has "suffered" the procedure more than a couple of times does start to go sort to say the least. This would suggest to me that even one passage with have its effects. Please note, that I am most willing to be informed. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:24:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I am going to mix a batch patties of pollen, pollen substitute and fructose this week in an electric cement mixer. Can the list provide pointers on the process of mixing and making the patties? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:00:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am going to mix a batch patties of pollen, pollen substitute and > fructose this week in an electric cement mixer. Can the list provide > pointers on the process of mixing and making the patties? I've covered the topic in my diary. See http://tinyurl.com/3ly4m . Depending on the constituents and your target consitencey, at minimum, the paddles need to be removed from your mixer, and possibly a scraper bar added. My advice, if you need many patties is at all, is to buy from a company that specializes in patty-making. They buy the components at advantagous prices, the protein components they use is 100& factory-fresh, any pollen used (optional) is properly irradiated, plus they do a superior job in terms of consistency, fast service, and often can make patties for a lower cost, including delivery, than the beekeeper himself. They may even have stock on hand and be able to deliver a pallet or two in a matter of days -- as quickly as a truck can be found, loaded and cover the distance. The company with which I have experience is Global Patties -- http://www.globalpatties.com . Pretty well all the big Alberta commercial beekeepers I know use their products, either a standard formula, or a custom-ordered version. I've heard there may be other such producers, and I know that Mann Lake has a BeePro patty and have both improved it and lowered the price recently. For sake of full disclosure: I am a consultant for Global Patties and help them out from time to time. Anyhow, I would never make patties if I could buy them or contract them with Global. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:31:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter & All, Peter said: Interesting read from an individual in France selling pollen for Human consumption - stored in freezer conditions and under Nitrogen gas I see the individual as looking for a nich market by trying to say the rest of the worlds pollen dried at around 95 F. and stored frozen in bulk containers until bottled is somehow inferior. The site says his biggest critics are beekeepers and he is right! Always will be until he can back up his claim with scientific proof his pollen has better human health benefits than dried pollen kept frozen. Testimonials are only testimonials( very similar to opinions and ----- which we all have got!) quote from site: "There are no immdiately publishable scientific results as of yet" And there is not going to be any! The only possible case which could be made is about pollen viability in seed set! Hard to connect the dots between viability in seed set and human health benefits of pollen. I do give credit his method creates a nice nich market for those 25 beekeepers supplying the above individual. I would bet the 25 beekeepers which supply the site do not run the pollen traps often enough to get the pollen frozen in nitrogen storage within the sites own two hour time frame * from the plant*. Happened last Saturday at the market I sell at: I am the largest beekeeper at the largest farmers market in the six state area and you would not believe the stuff I hear fed to people by health food stores and off the internet about bee hive products. I had a couple last week telling me the benefits of fresh dead honeybees eaten. Had to be fresh they said. They bought a large honey order so next week when my help goes to the market next Saturday they are to gather a bottle of bees at the entrance of one of the hives by the parking lot in a jar and take to the market for these people. I doubt they will show up but maybe they will. What should I charge for the trouble is the delima? Possible nich market? I have told my help to give the people the dead bees for free if they will eat a handful in front of the stand but maybe not a good idea as fresh dead bees still can give a sting! Would not be good for business to have a case of anaphylaxis in front of the booth! I give people bees for free to sting with in a special jar but these folks insist they have heard eating freshly killed bees has health benefits! In a lifetime of beekeeping this is the first time the subject has ever came up. I have seen pictures of natives eating brood in Africa for protein and I suppose fresh dead bees would provide protein. http://www.pollen-online.com/ Also read: http://plant-tc.coafes.umn.edu/listserv/2000/log0004/msg00081.html The above site reads to me as a seed viability site. Meaning if when harvested for how long when away from the plant would the pollen remain viable to set seed. the first site says: Pollen which isn't kept fresh takes just two hours to lose *all* its active elements. Again so much BS. Seed set viability is I suppose what he is refering to. Does he say he can take his pollen out of freezing and set seed a year later? Does each buyer of his pollen get a certificate verifying his pollen has been frozen within two hours of brought to the hive? Get serious health food people! My own testimonial is I have tried pollen fresh pulled right from bee leg pollen baskets, stored fresh, suspended in comb honey (easy way to get your pollen for home use and can but cut in bitesize chunks ), fresh frozen and then thawed and dried. If dried properly I see no difference in benefits. I find pollen is great for alertness, energy and staying up all night without sleep. I am sure many vitamin benefits come with the taking of pollen but like the multiple vitamin I take daily the only sign I see for sure is yellow urine! Peter asks: You mention Irradiated pollen - I wonder if the radiation does not "smash" through the DNA, and other molecular material - disrupting its structure. Without being irradiated commercial beekeepers will not buy and use another's pollen in bee feed patties for fear of American foulbrood and other problems. In my opinion the nutritional value lost (if any!) is offset by the protection provided by irradiation. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:30:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You mention Irradiated pollen - I wonder if the radiation does not > "smash" through the DNA, and other molecular material - disrupting > its structure. Irradiation does affect the viability of the pollen for purposes of plant reproduction, but AFAIK, pollen DNA is not an essential, or even significant nutrient for bees. My understanding is that irradiated food retains essential full nutitive properties. > I realise that the pollen would not be passed through an emitter > source several times - but wood that has "suffered" the > procedure more than a couple of times does start to go sort to say > the least. There are several kinds of irradiation facilities. The kind we use in Port Coquitlam, B.C., at Iotron, and for which research has been done on doses for bee disease control, uses an electron beam. Electrons are tiny compared to the larger particles used in other types of irradiation facilities. See http://www.essaysample.com/essay/001034.html. I'm told that brood and honey boxes can go thru Iotron's facility many times without apparent adverse effects, but that other systems can turn things to Swiss Cheese after a run or two. Maybe you can inform us what type is used in the facility located in Manitoba -- http://www.acsion.com/index.cfm?pageID=5, and if it will agree to do pollen. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 07:40:51 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You mention Irradiated pollen - I wonder if the radiation does not > "smash" through the DNA, and other molecular material - disrupting > its structure. Here in Australia there was some work done in the early days, never published to my knowledge, showing that dried pollen that was irradiated did not lose any of its food value after irradiation. I believe that dried pollen does lose about 10% of its food value a year under normal dry conditions. One thing for Australians is that you cannot sell irradiated pollen for human consumption. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:41:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Healing honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/26/2005 11:58:20 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bhfarms@SUSCOM-MAINE.NET writes: Honey is amazing stuff. Yes it is, Bill. I just had carpal tunnel surgery and knee surgery. I used honey right away for the itching of the stitches. Then I used propolis to make sure I didn't get an infection. Quite the stuff, indeed! Kathy Cox, Bloomfield Bees and Bouquets _www.kathycox.frankcox.net_ (http://www.kathycox.frankcox.net) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:48:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I believe that dried pollen does lose about 10% of its food value a > year under normal dry conditions. I wonder if the loss is non-linear or maybe dependant on the type of pollen, since my understanding has been that dried pollen loses effectively all its value after three years. Probably it is not as simple as that, though. Nothing ever is. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:55:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: josh jaros Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen In-Reply-To: <000801c51def$fc29bc30$b77ba8c0@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello All, If you are frugal with your money, don't buy the patties you see in bee magazines. I use brewers yeast and corn syrup. For acceptability, I throw in a few cups of real pollen. Let it sit overnight so the pollen grains soften. Should be like mushy cookie dough. Brewtech sells 50lb bags of brewers yeast and they'll ship directly to you. If you are doing a large batch, ie a 5 gallon pail, throw in an 1/8 cup of canola oil to help keep them moist. The bees will line up in rows and munch the stuff down like you wouldn't believe. It has lots of minerals and vitamins in the mix, and they'll kick out the brood like you wouldn't believe. I've always had a hard time getting the bees to eat mixes found in bee magazines. Maybe some of them are more appetizing for the bees now, I don't know. Josh --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:06:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen In-Reply-To: <000801c51def$fc29bc30$b77ba8c0@Nemo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > my understanding has been that dried pollen loses effectively all its >value after three years. > allen And what about frozen? Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.1 - Release Date: 2/27/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:49:43 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Feeding with pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WHO is Brewtech? Address and price? George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::