From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:37:19 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.0 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACFB148A76 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEFvLY013111 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0503B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 102059 Lines: 2303 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 00:11:24 -0500 Reply-To: jkriebel@speakeasy.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jonathan Kriebel Organization: Veritec, Ltd Subject: Electric Carving knife for uncapping. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The subject says it all-I figure someone has to have tried it. I have a = new electric carving knife that I received this Christmas. While strongly suspected of being re-gifted, I wondered if it might have some use for uncapping? It has two reciprocating blades, as opposed to the single = sort I have seen, and they are sharp as hell. Any ideas? Thanks...JK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:37:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert said: I don't like excluders, since bees don't seem to like going through them, and I find they delay the occupation of the supers. Bees need a reason to enter supers through excluders. Open the window to your extracting room and place a queen excluder in its place and then tell me bees do not like to go through excluders.We extract honey all summer long and thousands of bees are trying to get in the building when the *honey flow* is not on. The bees will enter through any opening they can get their head through. I have to chuckle when I visit a beekeepers extracting room and see bees entering around a door then loading up with honey and then exiting through the exit to the outside provided by the beekeeper. Each bee which returns to the hive with a successful rob of honey from your honey house will do a dance and then at least 10 will be back to rob. Those 10 will return and the robbing will increase. My solution: I trap bees trying to leave my processing area on a large screen. Then about dark I release the bees to either fly home or join one of the two queenright hives outside the door. When the hives get packed with bees I move to a outyard and place another nuc in a hive in its place. In the U.S. when you use two Langstroth deeps for brood chambers and 9-10 frames are empty between the two boxes when the honey flow starts you are not going to see bees going through the excluder into the honey supers with nectar until the bees get the amount they need put away below the excluder. Using an Imirie shim or another method for an entrance above the excluder, raising up the top a bee space, using wet supers, using a frame of unsealed nectar as bait or moving up a frame of brood will work many times to get the bees to start in supers during the early part of the honey flow even when room below the excluder for nectar storage is available. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:51:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Missouri State meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Many have inquired when I might give another presentation. I will be doing a presentation on varroa and the current situation in the U.S. at the spring meeting of the Missouri State Beekeepers association on Friday March 11th. (starting at 4:15 PM) . The meeting is being held at "The Inn of the Grand Glaize" at the beautiful Lake of the Ozarks at Osage Beach, Missouri. For information you can contact Sharon Gibbons at sgibbs314@earthlink.net Robin Mountain (South Africa) and Ann Harman (Bee Culture articles) will also be doing presentations. I have also got a two part article coming out in the April American Bee Journal about the first importation of Australian Bees into the U.S.. Part one is about getting the bees into the U.S. and part two in the May issue is about the way the bees pollinated almonds and are doing compared to our U.S. bees. I have got another article in either the April or May issue of the American Bee Journal about California almond pollination pros & cons which should be a must read for those considering doing almond pollination. I have got a couple Bee Culture articles and another American Bee Journal article in the works for summer but the bees come first. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. In my opinion subscribing to the American Bee Journal & Bee Culture is an absolute necessity if you are to work through today's tough beekeeping issues. Changes are happening fast in beekeeping today so subscribing is in my opinion the best way to stay informed for the U.S. beekeeper. Joining a bee club is important also and attending is important and not a "no show" many times like me! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:18:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Interesting book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I have been reading a very interesting book : "Parasites in Social Insects" by Paul Schmid-Hempel On the back cover Thomas Seeley (Cornell University) calls the book an extremely important work. I especially like the section on viruses. The book might be a read for entomologists rather than beekeepers but quite a bit of information on honey bees is in the book. I found my copy at a half price book store and then further marked down another half to less than six dollars . The store owner said he thought a person would never come through the door and buy the book as the book had been in his store for over five years! Paul Schmid-Hempel is a professor of experimental Ecology at ETH in Zurich, Switzerland , and head of a research group on the evolutionary ecology of host -parasite interactions. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:29:08 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Physical methods of cleaning Queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I don't know if I agree, though, with the statement someone made that > bending one wire makes them useless. Some time back, I heard that only > the > centre part matters (probably on BEE-L?) and the queens just hunt around > the > middle part, so we put a whole bunch on crossways -- like a thousand? A > few > queens went up, most didn't, but we stopped doing that. My experience is that the welded wire excluder gets wires bend on the ends where the hive tool goes in. I have had a wire or two bent there and a queen got up on more than one occasion. Straightened it out and had no more trouble. Blamed the worker for bending the wire, definitely couldn't have been the boss. So obviously the queen has gone to the trouble of going to the end of the box in order to be able to get up. Our wires run longways except, obviously, for the crosswires. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 06:44:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Physical methods of cleaning Queen excluders In-Reply-To: <009801c52388$06b8b5a0$b77ba8c0@Nemo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > I heard that only the >centre part matters (probably on BEE-L?) and the queens just hunt around the >middle part, so we put a whole bunch on crossways -- like a thousand? A few >queens went up, most didn't, but we stopped doing that. > allen I know this is 180 degrees different, but... ...I find exactly the opposite to be true...when the queen is going the other way...back into the hive. I made a shaker box, with an excluder nailed onto the bottom of a hive body. I use it sometimes, to find a queen that I can't find in the usual way. I use the box as a filter...running the bees through it...and leaving the queen running around on the excluder, trying her darndest to get through. The queen is always in a corner, or edge...and never in the middle of the excluder, when I find her. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:45:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Cleaning Queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, You wondered why this piece of equipment is used, when its "raison d'etre" is clearly unfixed. You wrote: "I realize that there are different dynamics in different climates -- excluder users generally a) want to shut down the queen, keep population size smaller post-nectar flow, and/or b) don't want brood in the honey boxes (reason many commercial folks use them). My problem, how much of this is beekeeper lore or convenience, how much based on real knowledge?" To my mind you have suggested answers to your own questions. Beekeepers wish to shut down queens and brood production. Some do it not realising the consequences, other will do so after accommodating for the pros and cons. In some circumstances (climatic, environment, management) there is little/ no perceived effect. In my case, the main reason for QE placement: it is quasi impossible to search for a queen that may be in one of seven boxes. Try abandonment with brood distributed throughout the honey super pile! I need to know that she is in the bottom two boxes. The search for better management and honey harvest levels is more than interesting. Observations take place and where possible applications generated. But, application of technique must fit in with operational "fitness". Queen excluders allow a general increase in my productivity. They may hinder in some others. By not using them, I may be able to increase production - but at what cost? Economic rent rears its head. If I had hours to watch individual colonies, manipulate each to its potential, some may have an excluder, others not. I have not got that luxury. So, I generalise; Things that appear to work get applied until a "force majeur" arrives or some bright individual indicates from having applied his/her time to academic study that I may do better with ......... . This latter situation, as you will possibly agree, needs plenty of solid evidence to back it up. Queen excluders do good, cause problems and the rest. As your mail suggests, agreed opinion is lacking due to when having one in the hand, a QE that is, most other considerations are near enough random. This has lead to the diverse opinions held on this piece of equipment. IMHO! Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 07:44:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: OhioBeeFarmer Subject: Re: Physical methods of cleaning Queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have two ways that I clean them normally. I use the solar melter or I hold them in front of a torpedo heater. ------------------ >> Yes pressure washing excluders still works and the method of choice >> for a few old beekeeping dinosaurs. He He. > > Okay, truth! > > Frankly, I have never used my pressure washer on excluders, but I thought > it > was worth a try. > > Once in a while, we boiled them, and got some wax. The rest of the time, > we > just used them as-is. > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 12:26:45 -0500 Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Juan_Carlos_Fern=E1ndez_Campos?= Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Juan_Carlos_Fern=E1ndez_Campos?= Subject: Re: queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I don't like excluders, since bees don't seem to like going through them, > and I find they delay the occupation of the supers. > > Bees need a reason to enter supers through excluders. > You could give then a reason by taking a few honey combs from the brood chamber and moving then up. try this and see, the bees move the honey back down and start filing the upper combs, Julio. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:31:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: State's high court defends beekeepers In-Reply-To: <004001c52327$acc4c300$1380a9d1@user> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" State's high court defends beekeepers March 8th, 2005 BY DENNIS LIEN; St. Paul Pioneer Press, MN http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/11075985.htm Landowners who spray pesticides on hybrid poplar groves can be held liable for damaging neighboring bee apiaries, according to an opinion by the Minnesota Supreme Court that could have nationwide implications. The decision late last week allows a negligence lawsuit filed by three western Minnesota beekeepers to proceed in district court. The beekeepers argue that the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and International Paper used a toxic pesticide to control cottonwood leaf beetles on poplars despite knowing that vulnerable beekeeping operations were within forage range. The three - Jeff Anderson, Steve Ellis and Jim Whitlock - said they suffered annual stock losses of 30 percent to 50 percent, amounting to more than $500,000. Two lower courts ruled against the beekeepers, saying the landowners had no legal obligation to them. But the beekeepers pressed their case to the state Supreme Court, which held, in part, that "a land possessor with actual knowledge or notice of foraging honey bees on the property comes under a duty of reasonable care in the application of pesticides.'' "In this case, they were aware,'' said Tim Rundquist, a Fergus Falls attorney representing the beekeepers. "That is what we are alleging.'' Rundquist said this is the first time a court has recognized a common-law duty to protect bees. He also said the decision could have broader implications because decimation of bee stocks from negligent pesticide applications is a national problem affecting not only honey production but the pollination that bees provide to blooming crops. A dissenting opinion by Justice Helen Meyer, however, said the decision goes too far. "The majority is plowing new ground in tort law by recognizing a common-law duty owed to foraging bees,'' said Meyer, who was joined by Chief Justice Kathleen Blatz. DNR officials said only that they support Meyer's position. Hybrid poplar trees have become increasingly popular in rural Minnesota as an alternative crop used in the pulpwood market or as a fuel. Because the trees are planted in groves, however, they are more susceptible to attacks from large numbers of cottonwood leaf beetles. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:06:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John's Honey Subject: Russian Queens MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I am thinking about getting some Russian queens from Purvis Bros. I have heard/read that some Russian queens need special introduction methods. Can anyone on the list give me some advice on this. John Cunningham Central Indiana :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:17:45 -0500 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Russian Queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John asks about special introduction techniques. John, these are not 'original' Russian Queens, 'just off the boat', and I believe that one of the things the Purvis' are selling is their ease of introduction. I suggest you ask Dann Purvis before taking advice from others. dannzann@alltel.net. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 22:31:24 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Oxalic acid treatment and spring build-up. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I wanted to ask folks who have used the oxalic acid dribble treatment for varroa during broodless periods in the fall/winter if you have seen any changes or a time shift in the spring brood rearing in their bees. I have read in the Swiss studies that the OA can show spring build-up problems but did not give any specifics. Thanks, Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:21:54 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan Dempsey Subject: Formic Acid In-Reply-To: <01f501c51fdf$97a9e8b0$b77ba8c0@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In anticipation of Mite - Away II receiving a section 18 clearance in California this Spring Has anyone used it or Formic Acid in the temperature that can be expected in the central valley (50f at night to 95f + in the day time) today high of 84f. How was it used? Dan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 07:48:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: peterborst Subject: My way or the highway Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings! Back in the 70s, when I was in my twenties, I had the good fortune to work for 5 years in a bee supply factory. I met almost all the beekeepers from San Diego, Orange, and Imperial Counties, plus dozens of others from as far way as Montana. I learned many things but one that stuck in my mind was the fact that *almost* all beekeepers think that there is one way to do things: their way. Whereas, it occurred to me that if all these people were more or less successful and all doing things quite differently, that it *doesn't matter* which or what technique you use, as long as it works for you. I picked from all and constantly changed my methods as indicated, rather than settling in on one routine and repeating annually. I was eager to hear new ideas from all, whether commercial or sideliner. I think it is especially true in these difficult times with more and worse pests, and fluctuating prices -- to be on your toes, and not be so sure that one is using the best or only technique. Don't be so quick to suppose that this or that *won't work*. A good method is one that doesn't hurt the bees and gets you what you want from them. A discussion is only useful if everyone contributes and also listens. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 06:46:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: John Mosely Mathewson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Does anyone know of a John Mosely Mathewson? Or his 1836 patented Bee Hive? A museum curator in Middlebury Vermont called me to see If I knew anything about him or his hive. Since I've never even heard of him...I thought perhaps someone here does. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 14:39:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Oxalic acid treatment and spring build-up. In-Reply-To: <20050309.143148.2992.112604@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I wanted to ask folks who have used the oxalic acid > dribble treatment for varroa during broodless > periods in the fall/winter if you have seen any > changes or a time shift in the spring brood rearing > in their bees. > > I have read in the Swiss studies that the OA can > show spring build-up problems but did not give any > specifics. This concern seems in the air. At the last Qc beekeepers annual meeting, I heard at least one important beekeeper reporting similar observation. Another one said he heard the same in BC for OA drizzling. We were then asking questions about OA mechanism of action on varroas and possible difference between dizzling and vaporizing methods. >From what I understand, low pH of OA solution would be the main factor of varroacide action. Hervé Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 14:30:43 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Oxalic acid treatment and spring build-up. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Herve, Did anyone observe a disruption or delay in the bees' spring build-up? And, if yes, did the spring brood rearing resume normally at a later time? I recognize OA effectively kills varroa but does it negatively affect the bees' start to raise brood in the spring? Thanks, Waldemar Long Island, NY >At the last Qc beekeepers annual meeting, I heard at least one >important beekeeper reporting similar observation. [...] >From what I understand, low pH of OA solution would be >the main factor of varroacide action. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:52:45 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Oxalic acid treatment and spring build-up. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Several European countries joined to study oxalic acid dribbling. If I remember right that was during years 1996 - 1999 or somewhere there. Same tests we done in different years in different countries. First result was that the effect was much better in sugar/water solution than in water alone. After that the right dose was searched. Some were too small with only 60 - 80 % effect, some were too much. Overdose makes the bees to be restless during winter and kills a lot of bees. The optimum was found to be 75 g of acid / 1 litre of water / 1 kg of sugar. And the application 4 ml / langstroth frame fully covered with bees. With this dose there is as many bees in spring as in untreated controls. In Finland we have not seen any delay in spring brood development. At the moment about 60 % of hives in the whole country are treated with oxalic. Mainly by dribbling, less than 10 % by vapour method. Based on my experience the problems in spring brooding could come from overdose rather than the treatment itself. Ari Seppälä Finland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:17:15 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ray Michaud Subject: Re: Russian Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I ordered some Purvis queens both the Blue and Gold lines, it is my under standing that the Blue line is tougher than the Gold line to introduce. It would be kind of nice if Bob Harrison was not to busy and he could tell us his method of introducing both lines. I have Russian nucs coming in early April and will use them to introduce the Blue line to. I will try the New World Carniolans that I have to use for the Gold line. My shipping date is late June so I should have time to steal some bees and brood from the Russian nucs. Take care Ray Michaud Lakeview Apiaries Westport Ma. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:40:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Russian Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John asks: I have heard/read that some Russian queens need special introduction methods. The Russian/Russian queens are harder to introduce (other than into another Russian hive) than other races I have been involved with. A push in cage over emerging brood is the recommended introduction method by the bee lab. To requeen a full size hive I recommend the above method in a nuc and then once the queen is established use the nuc to requeen the hive. A different queen pheromone has been reported with the Russian queens with the mass spec machine. All Russian queens are not equal. The Russian/Russian such as Purvis sells in his "Blue Line" and I use are harder to introduce than a Russian hybrid. All other Russian production queens *being sold* at present in the U.S. are hybrids. If a list member knows of a queen producer selling Russian/Russian production queens please email contact information to me direct. Results of my last testing of a queen producer claiming to sell Russian/Russian stock! A California queen breeder has simply Russian on his ad. After a year of testing his so called Russian queens I have found they are simply Italians and have tested the lowest in varroa tolerance of any bee I have ever tested. All fifty hives tested with varroa pressure died. Many of the others survived the winter but have got varroa infestations approaching threshold. One I tested last week had 75 natural drop in 24 hours. I have reported the results of my testing to the Baton Rouge Bee Lab and they agree with my conclusions. The bee he sold last year as Russian is not even a hybrid! I am not sure right now as to my next step but I believe an article showing the results of my documented testing and a picture of the bill the breeder sent saying 100 Russian queens would make an interesting article. What does the list think? The "Gold Line" Purvis bee ( Georgia) is a product of years of research with a closed breeding system using instrumental insemination. Myself and two other beekeepers in my area are going into our second year with the "Gold line" bee. We got a 100% introduction with the original bees we brought back from Georgia and found the bee to be more varroa tolerant that the Russian bee. The Gold line bee is easier to introduce than the Russian . We grafted and open mated a hybrid from the queens we brought back and the resultant queen headed hive proved (by documented testing) to be very varroa tolerant. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:40:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Russian Queens In-Reply-To: <006101c525b9$d64d6120$04bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, Seems logical to me to contact the "Italian Russian Queen Breeder" and ask the reason why he (she) advertised in the manner in which you say that he (she) did. You should then be able to compare his (her) reasons to your conclusions. From that position a solid and reasoned response may then be generated - whatever the direction it takes. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:49:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Russian Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter said; Seems logical to me to contact the "Italian Russian Queen Breeder" and ask the reason why he (she) advertised in the manner in which you say that he (she) did. The queen producer (male) when I ordered the queens said he included me in a a group of around fifteen beekeepers which wanted pure Russian/Russian stock. He said he was taking the Russian drone colonies to a remote 2500 acre ranch about an hours drive from his California main operation. I figured at the time that 2500 acres( approx. 2 square miles I believe) did not guarantee a 100% Russian breeding as drones can mate 20 miles from the hive (Larry Conner 2004) but the best offer I had found. He said the queens were grafted from a 2004 Glenn apiaries breeder queen (with yellow drones I don't think so!). I told him I only wanted pure Russian/Russian and had called all over the U.S. and could not find a source for Russian/Russian production queens. He told me I could be included in the Ranch queens but needed to get at least a 100 queens to be included. When the queens came I was sure the queens were not Russian and called a member of the Russian project in Louisiana on Sunday (the day the queens arrived) to say the queens I received looked Italian. The member said a light colored Russian had been sent to Glenn apiaries. I still was not convinced. At 8 am. Monday (California time) I called the queen producer and said a mistake must have been made. She was polite and said to call back in an hour after she talked to the order filler. I called back and she said . the order filler said the queens I received were Russian. I asked to speak to the boss as the queens & bees in the battery box looked Italian!. In the background he said those were Yellow/orange Russians. I said to tell him I believe the queens were simply Italians! He said they were Yellow/Orange Russians. A color combination which does not correlate with the colors sent by the bee lab. I told the lady to tell the queen producer I and three other beekeepers were going to test the queens and publish results. *Once established the queens produced yellow workers & drones.* A hybrid would have produced dark drones at least! The bee lab said the light colored queen they sent produced dark drones & workers. They also said she was only a lighter color than jet black and would never be mistaken for Italian stock. Peter said: You should then be able to compare his (her) reasons to your conclusions. What possible reasons could he have? The testing by a certified master beekeeper and three commercial beekeepers is complete. The bees were Italian, Not even a Russian hybrid, all the hives which received added varroa pressure died and the rest are over threshold in less than eleven months Except for one hive. One hive superceded (marked queen gone)and open mated to my black Russian line. Black workers & drones and had the lowest varroa count of the test when tested last week. Peter said: From that position a solid and reasoned response may then be generated -whatever the direction it takes. I may call after I cool down. Actually his Italians have got a few traits I like and are now being treated for varroa and will remain out of range of my Russian project. I will use his bees for honey production this summer (along with other italians I run) and then requeen with a varroa tolerant stock later. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 00:22:44 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Over wintering nucs or small colonies In-Reply-To: <006101c525b9$d64d6120$04bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thinking whilst I was supposed to be asleep last night (Too much excitement after watching the curling match on TV). I started to wonder about Wintering Nucs. The thought of a nuc. full of bees and well feed going into winter storage gave a sense of security. Couldn't get more bees in - overflowing and stuffed as full as possible with honey and food. Comparing the above to: A normal Langstroth brood box with the same size cluster and quantity of bees, again with adequate food. This gave me a gut feeling of some doubt about its survival potential. If both were wintered in a normal wintering shed - is there any basis to my two different gut feelings about these configurations. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 03:59:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: david flathman Subject: first swarms In-Reply-To: <127.57b578b4.2f62135b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed has anyone started to see signs of swarming. a few of my hives are building up very quickly and i am wondering if it is more the season or the variety. it would be interesting to map where the list members are seeing swarms. thank you david :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:39:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Russian Queens In-Reply-To: <006101c525b9$d64d6120$04bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >John asks: > I have heard/read that some Russian queens need special introduction >methods. Bob replies: >The Russian/Russian queens are harder to introduce A push in cage >over emerging brood is the recommended > To requeen a full size hive I recommend the above method in a nuc and then >once the queen is established use the nuc to requeen the hive. My standard re-queening method may be helpful here. Even with non-Russian bees, direct re-queening can be troublesome. Often, there are actually 2 queens in the colony to be re-queened, and the newly introduced queen is killed after only one of the old queens is dispatched. Making a nuc almost guarantees acceptance of the new queen. I use the top brood box of a two story hive as the nuc. Shake ALL the bees from the top box back into the colony. Place the bee-less combs back into the box, and place over an excluder, on top of the bottom box. Allow the bees to re-populate the combs overnight. The old queen(s) will be left below. Next day, replace excluder with a solid inner cover...escape hole closed with duct tape...and an entrance to the rear for the top box. Give caged queen. All the old bees fly back to the bottom unit, leaving only young bees, that readily accept a new, caged queen. Once the new queen is laying well...3 to 4 weeks...kill old queen(s) below, and unite with newspaper. This method has a high rate of success, and uses no extra equipment. No need to find a home for those extra combs created when uniting a nuc with the re-queened colony. When on a flow, the bottom unit will need supers, because they have all the field bees. Mike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:54:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Over wintering nucs or small colonies In-Reply-To: <42313934.6080909@mts.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed If both were wintered in a normal wintering shed - is there any basis to my two different gut feelings about these >configurations. >Peter I winter both configurations...4 frame nucs packed with bees and honey...and 10 frame "nucs" with similar clusters. I see no difference between the two, except the 10 frame has more honey, and doesn't run out of feed in spring when brood rearing really gets going...as the 4 framers sometimes do. Mike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:21:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe bossom Subject: Re: first swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable very quiet in southeast new england..strangely quiet given the burst opf = warm weather which now gone again ----- Original Message -----=20 From: david flathman=20 To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu=20 Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 3:59 AM Subject: [BEE-L] first swarms has anyone started to see signs of swarming. a few of my hives are building up very quickly and i am wondering if = it is more the season or the variety. it would be interesting to map where = the list members are seeing swarms. thank you david :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit = www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for = rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 05:45:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: first swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David asks: has anyone started to see signs of swarming. Reports from California (commercial beekeepers) say the first importation of Australian bees have got swarm cells already. The reports say they are plugged out already. I will confirm when those hives return next Wednesday to Missouri and hopefully get some closeup photos of the new arrivals to the U.S. for the May issue of the American Bee Journal. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 04:56:16 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: first swarms In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David wrote: has anyone started to see signs of swarming. No, not yet in Southeast Missouri though my hives came through the winter with better than expected results and far fewer dead outs. They look good and we have several frames of sealed brood. Easter is early this year. Does this have any bearing on swarming and/or build up? I can almost always count my first swarm call from a frantic homeowner on Easter or the monday that follows. Any connection or pure coincidence? Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 05:51:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: first swarms In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Haven't seen any signs of swarming yet, but I did see one supercedure cell that was capped. There was just one queen cell in the middle of the frame in the entire hive. Next weekend it was partially chewed away so I'm assuming the queen hatched out and the supercedure was progressing normally. Haven't had time to check yet, will this weekend to see if new eggs are being laid. Hive seemed strong with a good brood pattern. Will be interesting to see how things progress this spring. Wish there had been more q cells, could have placed them in a couple other hives that need requeening. Mike Locate 1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile, Alabama __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:24:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L: approval required (F32CFF4E) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" flathman@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: " ... it would be interesting to map where the list members are seeing swarms." David, A good start would be telling the list where in the world you are. In upstate NY, where it was 8dF last night and light snow is forecast fot later today through tomorrow, we aren't concerned about swarming at this time. Aaron Morris - thinking it's NOT a samll world after all! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:14:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Over wintering nucs or small colonies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If both were wintered in a normal wintering shed - is there any basis > to my two different gut feelings about these configurations. There are a lot of intangible factors here, like the history of the two colonies and their queens, which will never be exactly the same, and the ventilation characteristics of the two hives. If the nuc was made up late in the season, or became plugged out early and is now full of old bees, it may decline suddenly compared to a similar cluster in a larger, unrestricted hive. If either colony was close to starvation last fall, or is now, that will stack the cards against it, since the protein reserves in the hive and in the bees themselves will be low. As for how they look, crowded hives always look much better when opened, but they may, or may not turn out as well in the long run. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:48:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Bogansky,Ronald J." Subject: Glue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, I always read letters to the editor in newspapers, magazines or anywhere else. At best they are informative, at worst they infuriate, but mostly they are just enjoyable to read. It keeps you in touch with other average individuals or at least those that like to write letters. Lists like BeeL prove there are many more folks out there that probably would agree. In this month's issue of Bee Culture there is a letter to the editors where someone, new to beekeeping, mentions his disdain for all the time it takes to nail up a frame or box. I am just the opposite, I find banging nails with a hammer quite relaxing. I will agree though it does take time which is why I invested in a compressor and a pneumatic stapler. (The compressor continues to be one of the best tools I ever purchased. I can't believe how often I use it for a wide range of jobs. I could probably write a complete post on that alone.) Later in the letter the writer seems to criticize the use of plastic frames/foundation. When I first started keeping bees and assembling frames I found I hated wiring them. My second year I switched to Duragilt. I had great luck with that and, unlike others have reported, have had very few problems with the plastic losing its coating. Most of those frames are still in use. The time savings alone was worth it. I now primarily use plastic foundation and sometimes plastic frames. I have good results and it saves time. The gentlemen in the letter mentions only using glue to assemble frames, stating that modern glues like Titebond II are more than enough to hold frames together. IMHO he may get away with this on frames only used in honey supers, but I doubt he will be happy in a few years when trying to pry well propolized frames in a brood chamber. The gentlemen mentions he is an engineer (but not a chemist) and touts the bonding strength of modern glues. I disagree. Titebond II is not waterproof. That's why they just introduced Titebond III. The inside of a bee colony is a high humidity area and over time most wood glues will breakdown. If you ever refurbish an old frame you usually notice that when the comb is removed the joints are loose and have to be renailed. If the original nails were not there, the frame would fall apart. Wood glue 101: Not that long ago there were basically two glues on the market. White glue for crafts and yellow glue for wood. Being a good woodworker I would never have considered switching them. White for crafts yellow for wood, it's the law. Right? In reality they are very close with just some yellow coloring added to make the wood glue. These polyvinyl acetate (PVA) type glues were and still are great. When used on porous materials such a wood and correctly applied they form a bond that is stronger than the wood itself. The only problem is moisture. Researchers then came up with the next generation of glues (Titebond II et al) that were moisture resistant, not waterproof. They will bond much better in areas that occasionally get wet but would also break down when constantly exposed to moisture. I think the new Titebond III will hold up much better. I only hope that the letter writer to BC discovers this product sooner rather than later. There are other types of glues that are completely waterproof. These are polyurethane types that use moisture to activate the bond. Their strength is incredible, however I think they have two drawbacks, at least for use in beekeeping. They are more expensive with a shorter shelf life, and some if not all contain formaldehyde, a probable human carcinogen. (We are producing a food product after all). I have some pretty good information on this subject. For years I have been using a glue that has had one of the highest moisture resistance ratings (ANSI-HPVA [HP-1-1994] Type 2) available. It is not sold on the consumer market, but rather to industry, primarily the furniture manufacturers. One application it has been used for is to manufacturer butcher blocks/cutting boards (high moisture/food contact). Although I have what I consider a pretty good glue, I still nail everything and if I had to choose between nails and glue, I would go with the nails. Think Spring! Ron Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:47:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Plugged out? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>The reports say they are plugged out already.<< Can you please explain what you mean by "plugged out". It might be a = common USA expression. Do you mean that the colony has reached its = maximum in brood rearing? Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:26:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mea McNeil Subject: Re: first swarms In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It would be helpful to start such a map by telling us where you are. Here, just north of San Francisco, our nine colonies (plus a feral colony in a tree) are all wiped out. Our beekeepers' group is reporting strong losses this winter, and Eric Mussen of UC Davis says that the commercial beekeepers had a hard year. (Packages are either unavailable or double in price.) On your subject, he speculated that there might not be many swarms this season. So a swarm map is an interesting idea. To start: San Anselmo (Marin County, California) -- zero. Mea >has anyone started to see signs of swarming. >a few of my hives are building up very quickly and i am wondering if it is >more the season or the variety. it would be interesting to map where the >list members are seeing swarms. >thank you >david :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:22:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: first swarms Mine have been swarming for a couple weeks. Tim Vaughan Central Coast California. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:27:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Beekeeper Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed The other day, I asked about an 1836 beekeeper, and his patented hive. Because of distortion on my phone recorder, I got the name wrong. The name I'm looking for is John Weeks, and his 1836 patented beehive. Thanks Mike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: first swarms Mark, don't get too envious! As Mea said, many of us out here in California got hit this year, big time. For my area, 180 days last year without a drop of rain, bears, an explosion of Yellow Jackets, ants along with the regular problems. And during the time we normally get that nice Eucalyptus honey we got so much rain that the Eucalyptus crop was what I imagine the Almond crop in our area will be. This has been my worst year ever, but now that the ground is wet, the weather is sunny and there are huge amounts of flowers I trust it will start getting better. I went from 100 hives to 35, and the 23 that I took to the Almonds didn't really build up much. The open mated Russians did the best, for anyone interested, both for surviving and Jan-March honey production. So, to stay on subject, I've started my splits yesterday hoping to avoid losing any more swarms. It means a loss of honey, probably my main crop, but with all those hives standing empty I guess I don't have much choice. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:09:49 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Photos of Evodia Danielli (the Bee Bee Tree). Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am looking for good pictures of grown bee bee trees. Does anyone have any to share or links to direct me to? Thank you! Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:11:53 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: first swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit None here, yet. I have caught swarms as early as Feb. 25th. Kathy Cox, Bloomfield Bees and Bouquets Northern California, 20 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:16:45 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: first swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sebastopol, Sonoma County, 50 miles north of San Francisco. Loss 45 hives. No swarms. Swarm cells in hive in Healdsburg, another 15 mile north of here. Kathy Cox In a message dated 3/11/2005 9:39:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, mea@ONTHEFARM.COM writes: It would be helpful to start such a map by telling us where you are. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:27:54 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: first swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/05 6:43:05 AM, flathman@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << has anyone started to see signs of swarming. a few of my hives are building up very quickly and i am wondering if it is more the season or the variety. it would be interesting to map where the list members are seeing swarms. thank you >> WHAT IS YOUR LOCATION? I am in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, DC and have kept bees here for 73 years. I can never remember a swarm in MARCH. I often think about a VERY LARGE (6 pound swarm) that I had on April 5th about 1986. EMBARRASSED ME! A skilled beekeeper does have too many swarms - best that study more about the reasons for swarms rather than ask about other people's swarms. How old is your queen? If she is NOT marked, then you probably have no idea of her age. A 13 month old queen is 2 times more likely to swarm than a 1 month old queen, and a 24 month old queen is going to swarm almost in spite of anything you might do. READ ALL THE RESEARCH FINDINGS ABOUT THIS; or ask why commer cial honey producers requeen every year and some twice/year. Have you REVERSED your BROOD chambers so the queen can always go UP to lay (she won't go DOWN in chilly weather). Is your queen a CARNIOLAN (Which I prefer over Italians), which has a HIGH PROPENSITY to swarm due to its EXPLOSIVE spring build-up? At the risk of being downright RUDE, I suggest that you devote some time to LEARNING about BEE BEHAVIOR, bee RACES, SWARMING causes, and you will NOT get that info on the Internet. READ the writings of BEE SCIENTISTS and BEE RESEARCHERS; plus Chapter 8, by Dr. Norm Gary, in the 1992 EXTENSIVELY REVISED edition of The Hive and Honey Bee. It's only $36. I hope I have helped. George Imirie Certified Master Beekeeper :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:46:49 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Goodman Subject: BEE-HOUSE DESIGN/USE Comments: To: listserv@albany.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi - I am looking for good websites with information on Bee-House Design and Use (max size about 8 x 6 ft for about 10 hives max) for back garden in northwest Europe. Any help much appreciated. John :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:44:03 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Russian Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, There are THIEVES and LIARS everywhere today. It is so SAD! I am 20 years your senior, but back in "our" day, most people had CHARACTER. Now, in this 21st century, that word might disappear from the dictionary, because nobody knows what CHARACTER is today. Talk to Ann Harman about Russian bees - she worked with them in east Russia. In my thinking, they are just a stock of apis mellifera carnica; and buyers are just grasping for straws, and the sellers are just like sport scalpers where MONEY is the sole objective. George A damn PROUD Certified Master Beekeeper :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:55:12 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Glue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron, WHAT A WONDERFUL DISCUSSION ABOUT GLUE! I salute you! I, too, use TiteBond, but with NAILS, that I can depend on for umpteen years. George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:03:23 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: first swarms In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.1.20050311081643.0297d8a0@pop.lmi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Mea wrote: >It would be helpful to start such a map by telling us where you are. >Here, just north of San Francisco, our nine colonies (plus a feral colony >in a tree) are all wiped out. ... So a swarm map is an interesting >idea. To start: San Anselmo (Marin County, California) -- zero. Mea In Santa Barbara we have had swarms for a couple of months now, quite usual for here (eucalyptus starts blooming in November. Now, though, we have small and numerous swarms. That is not unexpected, either, given that we have had Africanized honey bees in our area for a few years now. Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm ************************************************************* * The most formidable weapon against errors of any kind * is reason. * Thomas Paine, 1794 ************************************************************* :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:48:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: first swarms In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii George Imirie--- GImasterBK@AOL.COM wrote: about studying the causes of swarming and preventive measures instead of investigating swarming in different parts of the coutry. I agree. But curiosity is out there. I think most newbys are very curious about swarms 'a quick way of getting new colonies '. I propose the same as you George, read the qualified texts. But I also think we should assauge the curiosity of the new beekeepers. They want to know what to expect, especially when they are in the process of learning. A still learning, moderately knowledgable, beekeeper; Mike Located 1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile, Alabama __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 00:41:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Oxalic acid treatment and spring build-up. In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Based on my experience the problems in spring >brooding could come from overdose rather than the >treatment itself. Probably. >From what I understood, based on a study that OA miticide effect is mostly due to low pH solution (and not from oxalate salts as originally expected), OA in solution is immediatly available and driBBled (I will try to remeber the "BB") directly on varroas. In the opposite, OA powder spread into the whole hive by vaporizing is less "available" (depending on its distribution in the hive; cluster position; moisture available for OA dissolution). All the more as here we use it with 2 langstroth brood chambers instead of one european brood chamber. Just the hypothesis I remembered. Hervé Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:30:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: MN Supreme Court Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Everyone: As often happens, no discussion of the most important event in months. Medhat reported "But the (MN) beekeepers pressed their case to the state Supreme Court, which held, in part, that "a land possessor with actual knowledge or notice of foraging honey bees on the property comes under a duty of reasonable care in the application of pesticides.'' Every beekeeper in the nation should thank Jeff and Steve and Jim. They spent an enormous amount of their own time and money pursuing this topic. The two lower court's decisions more or less made a mockery of pesticide label requirements -- calling them advisory only. That meant that the label's wouldn't be worth the paper that they were printed on. Thanks to the persistence of these three beekeepers, we now have a critical precedent - one that has implications to each and every beekeeper in the country. So send them an indication of your appreciation -- they fought the battle that the national associations were slow to respond to. They also sustained the costs. I suggest that a fund be established to help them defray their costs: 1) continued and severe losses over a period of several years, and 2) court, travel, consultant costs. Not sure how one goes about setting up such a fund, maybe ABF or AHPA will step up to the plate -- the industry owes these MN beekeepers big time. Sincerely Jerry J. Bromenshenk CEO, Bee Alert Technology, Inc. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:58:35 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: BEE-HOUSE DESIGN/USE In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, See page 155 in E B Wedmore - A Manual of Beekeeping - there are two diagrams for honey houses, one being 10ft by 15ft and the other 10ft by 7 ft. ISBN 0 905652 01 0 Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:39:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Cubital Index and Discoidal Shift angles In-Reply-To: <015c01c52644$989e25e0$b77ba8c0@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody out there got any data on C.I. and D.S.I. for worker bees originating from pure Kona stock? Thanks, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 07:28:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Kiley Subject: build up after Oxalic/ spring swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I can address two recent questions at once here. I'm just east of Okefenokee swamp in southeast Georgia. Maples bloomed early and long, starting on the 10th of January and continuing right into the tyty bloom March 1st. I've seen swarms on maple in the past though not often. Last year was a year in which they wanted to swarm, this seems not to be. As to why this might be, sunspots, El Nino, the Sox winning the Series, who knows. I just got done with my first round of splits and saw only one colony with swarm cells. I treated with oxalic in the fall, for the first time, using exactly the protocol described by Herve, in Maine after queens had quit laying. We got great mite control and build-up this spring is, if anything, better than I've been seeing for a few years. Relieved of their mite load they are charging ahead. Naturally I've been looking pretty hard for any signs of ill effects from a new treatment and I can't see any. So far. Best, Michael Kiley Gourmet honey, pollination and more... http://www.beeherenow.com What's so funny about bees, love and understanding? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:42:26 -0500 Reply-To: pollinator@sc.rr.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: Plugged out? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "Plugged out" means that bees are building burr comb under the cover. It's not a good situation, as it means that supers should already been added. Adding them now might help, but they have already lost some production and quite likely have already "decided" to swarm, in which case adding supers won't stop them. If there are queen cells, the only real remedy to split. (Cutting out queen cells is a waste of time and usually an exercise in futility). Dave AKA Pollinator The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger White Date: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:47 am Subject: [BEE-L] Plugged out? > >>The reports say they are plugged out already.<< > Can you please explain what you mean by "plugged out". It might > be a common USA expression. Do you mean that the colony has > reached its maximum in brood rearing? > Best regards > Roger White > Superbee Cyprus. > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other > info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:55:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Glue In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bogansky,Ronald J. wrote: > Although I > have what I consider a pretty good glue, I still nail everything and if > I had to choose between nails and glue, I would go with the nails. Excellent review of glues- I ran a little experiment with Titebond II on some frames and it did not hold up in the hive. Nails are the way to go- cheap, easier to apply and generally reliable. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:01:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: first swarms In-Reply-To: <200503111722.j2BHH1Pk019256@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got my snowshoes on and hiked through the blizzard and saw no swarm activity. Maybe tomorrow. Bill Truesdell (expecting another foot of snow today) Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:46:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Oxalic acid treatment and spring build-up. In-Reply-To: <20050311234149.49922.qmail@web20827.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hervé Logé wrote: >>From what I understood, based on a study that OA > miticide effect is mostly due to low pH solution (and > not from oxalate salts as originally expected), OA in > solution is immediatly available and driBBled Could you cite the study? It seems counter to what happens with other organic acids introduced into the hive bodies. The oxalic is diluted so organic acids like vinegar should also work but some do and some do not. And why does a sugar solution of oxalic work better than just water? It appears something else is at work, not just contact. Not unusual to have a lot of theorizing as to how something works, but this one seems counter to other observations. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:34:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Cubital Index and Discoidal Shift angles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter asks: Anybody out there got any data on C.I. and D.S.I. for worker bees originating from pure Kona stock? Are you wanting the above for queens from Kona Queen from Hawaii? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:11:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Plugged out? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roger asks: Can you please explain what you mean by "plugged out". Do you mean the colony has reached its maximum in brood rearing? The hives I was referring to do not have honey supers on. Those which have tasted almond honey will know why! They were the hives started from Australian package bees. The simple explanation for the beekeeper term "plugged out" is the bees have ran out of expansion room and have put burr comb in every available corner of the hive. Usually making the top (migratory in our operation) or inner cover (hobby) hard to remove and when you remove comb breaks and honey runs down through the frames . Honey super "plugged out" : Also burr comb above & below the excluder, between each honey super and the top in cases of heavy honey flows such as is seen at times in the Peace River area of Canada and the Dakotas of the U.S.. I have heard the term used in talking to my beekeeper friends from around the world which see heavy honey flows. Due to the loss of bee forage in the Midwest we usually can keep up with the bees needs but I have seen two years 1995 & 1997 in our area we could not keep up with the bees. I made three trips out of state to buy supers as we could not extract and return the supers fast enough to keep up. "plugged out" is not as serious a problem as *empty supers or half filled supers* to the commercial beekeeper but makes the removal messy & *if* the honey flow has stopped creates a serious robbing problem both between hives and on the truck. Half filled supers because it takes the same amount of dollar labor to extract a half filled frame as a full frame of honey. Could be big problem: "plugged out" in referring to the Australian package hives returning from almonds *is* a serious issue with us as swarming most likely has happened and will be a problem on their return. I was told about an hour ago (I have been out of town) that the bees were not shipped from California yesterday as planned because the hives were not released from the almond groves . So now a semi sits in California for another three days waiting to load on Wednesday. Myself and my partner are not happy but what can you do? My partner has Kona queens waiting (shameless advertisement) and is waiting to do swarm control and add second boxes. I am waiting to got through the Australian package Bell Hill Honey Co. hives and get information for the May ABJ article and take pictures before the May issue goes to the printers. Things will work out as my partner and I live in a pressure situation! Not a big deal. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:10:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Oxalic acid treatment and spring build-up. In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >>From what I understood, based on a study that OA > > miticide effect is mostly due to low pH solution > (and > > not from oxalate salts as originally expected)... > > Could you cite the study? Here is the link (copied and pasted from a post on the Belgian list): http://www.apis.admin.ch/host/varroa/udine.htm The > oxalic is diluted so > organic acids like vinegar should also work but some > do and some do not. As a small amateur beekeeper, I have not the full explanation. But, with regard to pH, it seems to me that most of organic acids are weak acids. Some acids constants : Oxalic : pKa1(25C)= 4.19 pKa2(25C)= 1.23 Acetic (vinegar) : pKa(25C)= 4.75 Formic (in solution) : pKa(20C)= 3.75 Oxalic is a diacid the second acidity is quite strong compared to most organic acids in solution. It could be compared with strong inorganic acids as sulfurous acid : pKa2(18C)= 1.81. Moreover, even if low pH is the main factor for oxalic acid according to the above link, it does not mean it is the same for others (weaker). > And why does a sugar solution of oxalic work better > than just water? It > appears something else is at work, not just contact. I would agree with you, but it would just be an "a priori". Last time I asked a reseacher for the OA mechanism of action on varroa, he answered to me he did not know while he was presenting a study comparing field results with OA and other products. So I guess the issue is still not clear. > Not unusual to have a lot of theorizing as to how > something works, but > this one seems counter to other observations. ??? I just tried to answere the original question (reporting hearings about similar observations) and tried to share information. The more people will share, the more I could progress, and respectively I hope. Respectfully, Hervé Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.mail.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:55:55 +0100 Reply-To: olda.vancata@quicknet.se Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Olda Vancata Subject: Re: Oxalic acid treatment and spring build-up. In-Reply-To: <20050314141015.94731.qmail@web20821.mail.yahoo.com> > Last time I asked a reseacher for the OA mechanism of action on varroa, > he answered to me he did not know while he was presenting a study > comparing field results with OA and other products. Does reaserchers (or anybody) know LD50 för oxalic acid and formic acid for bees? \vov :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:31:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: More healing In-Reply-To: <003301c51d91$7c622f40$34bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got the results back from my CT scan and other than a slightly larger lymph node under my arm, which is probably from a respiratory problem, I have no detectable cancer. The node will be checked again in May. My Doctor was not too concerned about it since it was in the wrong location, but with Malignant Melanoma you can never be sure. But he gave it a good going over and was fairly sure that it was normal. Malignant Melanoma usually grows and travels quickly, but my tumor did not. MM is also one of the few cancers that the bodies immune system does fight. Which is why one treatment is Interferon, which is designed to boost the immune system to fight it. I cannot help but remember Bob H's post on his immune system and the high levels of Gamma globulin that beekeeper's have from being stung. I realize it is totally anecdotal, but even my Oncologist did not dismiss the stings as a factor in the slow growth of the MM in the lymph node (about seven years after my original MM on my face). Even more, its confinement to a single lymph node showed something was going on. Two of my Doctor's had friends who had the same symptoms as me in finding a MM in a lymph node. Both lost them to MM within a year. Another friend lost his dad in three months. In each, it did not stay confined. So I count myself blessed by God (it was not an accident that started me keeping bees) and my bees. What other hobby is there in the whole world that might have saved your life and gives you great syrup for your pancakes? I refused the Interferon treatment since it gave a 10% better chance of survival while making you miserable for a year and possibly damaging your thyroid gland. Instead, I stung myself with about 8-10 bees twice (about 1 1/2 month apart- whenever they were flying), and will keep that up over the years. The problem with almost all cancers is once you have it, you have it. You may be in remission your whole life or it may come back. So I will be continuing my treatment for the duration, which is no big deal since I do it anyway for my arthritis. Some interesting facts about MM. It was once thought that you should stay out of the sun if you were susceptible, but now moderate or limited sun exposure is an indicator of having it less than staying out of the sun completely. They have also found that there may be more than one kind of MM, or that people react differently to MM. Some get it worse than others, so I am in the latter category. But the whys of that are not understood, while I feel it is the immune system. Might also be vitamin D, since that and the sun go together. Anyway, I will be around a bit more to enjoy the BeeL and my bees. Thanks, more than you will ever appreciate, for your prayers, emails and encouragement. You are friends. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:58:42 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Re: MN Supreme Court MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/12/2005 9:48:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, jjbmail@SELWAY.UMT.EDU writes: > As often happens, no discussion of the most important event in > months. Medhat reported "But the (MN) beekeepers pressed their case to the > state Supreme Court, which held, in part, that "a land possessor with > actual knowledge or notice of foraging honey bees on the property comes > under a duty of reasonable care in the application of pesticides.'' > Nearly all the pesticides that I come into contact with are prohibitive by the label to be apply on or around blooming plants. It was my understanding the label law was federal, under DEP. It was also my understanding that the states could enact more restrictive rules, but not less. How did MN come to over ride the label law to begin with? Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::