From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:37:02 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.0 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5812748970 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEVNiu013404 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:36 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0505D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 117709 Lines: 2709 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 21:14:34 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Brian & All, > Maybe what we need instead of imports is a higher ethic or a > regulation requiring queen breeders selling in the USA to be doing > something about the mite problem instead of putting a queen in a > queen cage and charging $12. > > It appears to me that the solutions to the mite problem are within > reach but takes a regimented commitment to doing the work and > selectvely breeding a mite resistant bee. Of course this require a lot > more effort then just shipping a queen to pay the bills or importing > bees to profit on the current situation. > Brian, perhaps instead of demanding others do the work of breeding good queens you and the rest of the beekeepers in the USA should begin breeding bees too. Lots of potential resistant stock go by the way side when a colony is re-queened by breeders stock. Also, I might suggest that you should not demand something of anyone that your not will to do yourself. This is what a good leader does. To me breeding bees is what all beekeepers should be doing by default and design. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 00:49:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian asks: Maybe someone can explain to me why we need to import bees from outside the USA to replenish our dead outs? Good question! One I believe I answererd in the April & May issues of the American Bee journal but here goes the simple version on the Australian import. Commercial beekeepers are having trouble keeping hive numbers up right now for almond pollination in California. NO U.S. queen producer can provide packages in *February*. Kona Queen in Hawaii only sells queens and could gear up to do packages but declined. Canada has a similar problem due to cold weather Canada queens /packages early are simply not possible so they import packages/queens. Have been for over two decades from Australia without a problem except they did have a chalkbrood problem in queens which seems to have been resolved by the Australians through the use of new IMPORT INTO AUSTRALIA BREEDER QUEENS. Yes Canada got varroa & tracheal mites over the last two decades BUT NOT from Australian imports! Australia remains varroa & tracheal mite free! All the doom & gloom predicted for us because of the import did not happen to the Canadians! Twenty years without a problem should be enough time to trump the gloom & doomers! The package bees we receive from Australia are not already infested with varroa & tracheal mites like *some* are now in the U.S.. The end difference is a newly packaged hive which is below treatment threshold in August. The other side of the coin is a U.S. package which is over threshold and will not make it through the winter. Brian said: Perhaps I am missing some information but whats wrong with the notion that the bee industry in the USA be focusd on fixing our own problems rather then looking for a new supplier of packages and queens? This has nothing to do with the bee industry. It is about commercial beekeepers looking to keep the almond pollination going and bees in hives. The import was the brainchild of a single beekeeper and his lawyer. A few beekeepers had the guts to do the first import which proved its worth. Now others are wanting onboard. Even the largest almond broker Joe Trayner. Brian said: For example I have been purchasing new world carniolan bees from a large west coast breeder for years. There is no change for the small beekeeper. Keep on buying your queens! > However they are highly dependent on treatment for varorra. The breeders website and bee journal ads mention little about any credible program or research they are doing to propogate mite resistant bees. I only know of three people doing serious research on a varroa tolerant bee. Only one is a USDA lab (Baton Rouge). I would like to quote from the final sentance on page 199 of the book "queen rearing & Bee Breeding" by Laidlaw & page " Instututional breeding programs at universities, and the USDA ,have never succeded due,at least in part, to the failure of the bee industry to adopt the stocks they produced. If the beekeeping industry is not willing to pay higher prices for selected stocks and/or is not willing to support stocks produced by instututional stock improvement programs , THEN THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE FOR THE FUTURE IS THE CONTINUED USE OF DANGEROUS AND EXPENSIVE CHEMICALS" The beekeeping industry reminds me of a drug addict. In 1987 they said they would never put a chemical in a beehive! Now they think they can not survive without a chemical in the beehive! Brian said: Maybe what we need instead of imports is a higher ethic or a regulation requiring queen breeders selling in the USA to be doing something about the mite problem instead of putting a queen in a queen cage and charging $12. Most sellers of queens are queen producers. They produce queens. If she lays an egg in the cage she goes. You get what you pay for! The queen is the most important insect in the hive and you are crying about spending twelve dollars? Probabbly what you would charge for a couple two pound jars of honey! Almond growers cry over the cost of a hive of bees for pollination but that single hive will produce thousands of pounds of almonds . Top grade almonds bring six dollars a pound over the internet! Without the hive for pollination you get the in red zone. Do the math folks! Brian said: It appears to me that the solutions to the mite problem are within reach but takes a regimented commitment to doing the work and selectvely breeding a mite resistant bee. We have got the bee already but the industry wants a new chemical! Sadly the industry will have to settle for a 70% effective treatment. In a couple years the use of a 70% treatment will become apparnet. Brian said: Of course this require a lot more effort then just shipping a queen to pay the bills or importing bees to profit on the current situation. All the queen producer has to do is buy the varroa tolerant breeder queens. Raise queens and raise their prices to pay for the change. In business you have to pass the new costs on to the consumer to be sustainable. Are you willing to pay a higher price for a varroa tolerant queen? Queen producers sell all they can produce now. Why switch? Those importing are doing so for their own needs. Most care little about what the rest of the industry thinks. I have tried to present an honest look at the import in my articles. I will continue to do so in the next two articles. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Author of the two articles in the April & May American Bee Journal on the import of Australian package bees into the U.S. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 10:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: article Keith wrote "To me breeding bees is what all beekeepers should be doing by default and design." What other kind of agriculture demands this? Do you think corn growers should hybridize their own seeds, grow the corn, harvest and make the harvest into tortillas? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 10:34:49 -0500 Reply-To: gmaguet@mts.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gilles Subject: Re: article In-Reply-To: <200505221411.j4MDx14L014200@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >What other kind of agriculture demands this? Do you think corn growers >should hybridize their own seeds, grow the corn, harvest and make the >harvest into tortillas? > > > I think a lot of farmers regardless of what they are growing, wish they had the support to develop and save their own seed. The rights of farmers to save their own seed has been virtually stripped away leaving them at the mercy of large agribusiness corporations. Gilles :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 08:26:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Breeding for mite resistance Comments: cc: Robert Danka In-Reply-To: <001f01c55e91$f9508600$2ebc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Bob Harrison wrote: > I only know of three people doing serious research > on a varroa tolerant bee. > Only one is a USDA lab (Baton Rouge). > Bob, and all, I am currently working as a cooperator with Dr. Kenneth Ward out of Alabama A&M University and Bob Danka from Baton Rouge on a study of mite resistance within various strains of bees. I am only one of many cooperators in the state of Alabama who are working with Dr. Ward and Bob Danka. If you would want to know more about the study you would need to contact Dr. Ward. As a cooperator I'm not sure of just how much about the program I can disclose. But, rest assured, there are both hobby beekeepers and small commercial beekeepers working on the development of mite resistance bees. I can remember my hives back in the late 1960's and early 70's when the worst we had to worry about was AFB. Those were the easy days. Even as a novice beekeeper I was fortunate enough to have really good success after learning a few lessons with a couple of early failures (Like, don't confine bees in a hive without a bunch of ventilation. Makes for a really messy hive to clean up.). Kenneth E. Ward, Ph.D Alabama A&M University Center for Forestry and Ecology Bob Danka with the USDA Bee Genetics lab in Baton Rouge > > Brian said: > It appears to me that the solutions to the mite > problem are within > reach but takes a regimented commitment to doing the > work and > selectvely breeding a mite resistant bee. > I believe that is what Dr. Ward has been doing and is now in the evaluation stage. Working with a lot of interest on the project and encountering a few pleasant surprises. Mike Stoops Entrenched 1/2 way between Mobile and Montgomery, Alabama Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 08:57:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: article In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cattlemen and not corn growers. Honeybees are livestock you know and not something planted into the ground. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Tucson, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 15:51:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: article Gilles wrote "I think a lot of farmers regardless of what they are growing, wish they had the support to develop and save their own seed." There are certainly some, but I've never met any. As a percentage of people who make their living through agriculture, they would be a very small minority. The work involved is huge, and most farmers just haven't the time, interest or wherewith-all to do it. Dee wrote "Cattlemen and not corn growers. Honeybees are livestock you know and not something planted into the ground." There is no difference. I had a thousand laying hens for a couple years, as well as milk goats and I can't even imagine the work that would go into breeding your own stock. Even big cattlemen use imported semen, etc.. Today's agriculture is specialized, and it is specialized not because of government conspiricies or anything like that, it's simply more efficient. Regards to the list. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 11:58:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tim & All, > What other kind of agriculture demands this? > I do not know but really I was talking bees not all of agriculture. It is not unheard of for people to breed their own stock whether it be animal or plant. Another point is that with a re-queening the old queen is usually tossed when at the very least a great candidate for varroa tolerance could be sent to your favorite breeder so its genetics can be utilized in your breeders breeding program. There are lots of ways for all beekeepers to help in the breeding of a great varroa tolerant bee besides physically doing the breeding themselves, although I think that more beekeepers should take an active role in breeding bees. Most do not simply because they do not understand the process of breeding bees and do not realize how simple it is to rear and breed queens. Nearly all books on beekeeping suggest that a beekeeper starts out with local bred bees, to maintain that a beekeeper should continue breeding locally and not buying in from outside constantly but only occasionally. > Do you think corn growers > should hybridize their own seeds, grow the corn, harvest and make the > harvest into tortillas? > Sure, another great idea. Some growers already do this and others maintain pure strains by open pollinating. Open pollinated vegetables are called heirloom varieties, without these heirlooms hybridizing would be nearly impossible. As an agricultural industry more individual breeding of stock would only strengthen the industry with varieties. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 19:22:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Subject: Re: article In-Reply-To: <200505222022.j4MKITT4002864@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think beekeepers should be breeding their own bees also and I agree wholely with Keith and Dee on this. Any beekeeper that doesn't buy their queens from somewhere else or one who buys queen cells instead of queens is in some fashion a breeder of sorts, even if an uncontrolled breeder. In other forms of agrictulture, this can pretty much be done the same. Just take your best fields and keep them for seed instead of sale for next year. That's breeding too. -- Scot Mc Pherson The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Bradenton, FL USA http://beewiki.linuxfromscratch.org http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/OrganicBeekeepers/ mailto:scot@linuxfromscratch.org . ` , ` ' .,';`,. ``. '. _/^\_ :;.,';`'.,` `., ' '`, /_____\ .:.,"'` /\_____/\ .,:`'" \###/.,';` :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 19:25:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kate Subject: Looking for nucs I recently began volunteering at a therapeutic farm in southwestern Massachusetts. One of my coworkers, the resident beekeeper, just resigned, leaving behind all of the beekeeping equipment. I'm hoping to set up a couple of hives, incorporating them into the work program, but due to my late jump on the game I'm having trouble finding nucs. Does anyone know where I might be able to get some this late? Thanks. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 21:35:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I wanted to ad something to Bobs reply to Brians post. I live in Ontario Canada. I am fortunate because we have the University of Guelph here in Ontario who are currently working with specific beekeepers in developing different strains of bees for mite tolerance. The "Ontario bee", Russian and Buckfast are some. There are also independent beekeepers who with the support of the university are selectively breeding there own queens for the traits that we all currently desire. The emphasis is towards a much less chemical dependant apiary. But this is why we pay between $20 and $30 for queens. I wish I could get queens for $12 but if we don't support it why would they do it? If the beekeeping industry is not willing to pay higher prices for selected stocks and/or is not willing to support stocks produced by instututional stock improvement programs , THEN THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE FOR THE FUTURE IS THE CONTINUED USE OF DANGEROUS AND EXPENSIVE CHEMICALS" Kent Stienburg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 19:26:02 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kent & All, > If the beekeeping industry is not willing to pay higher prices for selected > stocks and/or is not willing to support stocks produced by instututional > stock improvement programs , THEN THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE FOR THE FUTURE IS THE > CONTINUED USE OF DANGEROUS AND EXPENSIVE CHEMICALS" > This not the only alternative. Higher prices are probably inevitable, one thing is for sure the prices will probably not go down. These institutions can only do so much on their own, beekeepers must also do their part. Lots of great genetics are lost as queens are replaced artificially by beekeepers tossing them as they re-queen. In modern beekeeping only parts of the bees are being worked with when we need a whole bee. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 00:00:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Subject: Re: article In-Reply-To: <200505230236.j4N2aKk4020576@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>If the beekeeping industry is not willing to pay higher prices for selected stocks and/or is not willing to support stocks produced by instututional stock improvement programs , THEN THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE FOR THE FUTURE IS THE CONTINUED USE OF DANGEROUS AND EXPENSIVE CHEMICALS" <<< Kent, That's actually pretty speculative. Chems have a good likelihood to not work AT ALL in the near future and arguable that they already don't. Its not about higher prices, its about starvation. There is already a group of people working out the problem independent of any funded research and many of us already desire and are willing and able to help and already giving help to other beekeepers to successfully keep bees without chems. Some of us have hives numbering in 100s a few in the 1,000s. Its not just genetics, its also technique, diet and relearning authentic seasonal management. Genetics are an important part of the equation, but its not the whole equation, and its also something most people don't understand. Its not about finding the right hybrid. -- Scot Mc Pherson The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Bradenton, FL USA http://beewiki.linuxfromscratch.org http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/OrganicBeekeepers/ mailto:scot@linuxfromscratch.org . ` , ` ' .,';`,. ``. '. _/^\_ :;.,';`'.,` `., ' '`, /_____\ .:.,"'` /\_____/\ .,:`'" \###/.,';` :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 00:05:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: article Scott wrote "In other forms of agrictulture, this can pretty much be done the same. Just take your best fields and keep them for seed instead of sale for next year. That's breeding too." No, it cannot be done that way, not if you want to keep the bank from taking your best fields. Commercial farmers get seed and stock from tissue culture specialists, hybrid seed specialists etc..I have friends where I used to live in parts of Africa and Papua New Guinea that do what you suggest, but believe me you wouldn't want to live on their salaries. There is nothing noble about primitive agriculture. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 07:10:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Harold Rogers Subject: idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have an idea about putting the entrance for bees to come and go along the 20 in. side instead of the 16 in. side. In other words turn the hive 90 degrees on a special built bottom board. Would there be more disadvantages or advantages to such an idea? May not be for the beekeepers with many hives, but maybe for the smaller bee- keepers. Has there been any information on this any where? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 09:29:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry Scott this part was a quote I had attached from a previous post. I was eluding to a point Bob had raised. We need to support the queen producers who are spending the time and money to produce queens with the desired traits. Will we ever be able to stop using chemicals/medicines??? Since we have been using them for the past 70 years or more. I would say no I believe my grandfather used sulpha or something for foulbrood in the 40's. But we should be able to greatly limit the need for expensive and powerful chemicals. Kent :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:02:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Subject: Re: article In-Reply-To: <200505231401.j4NE17kj013756@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>>>Will we ever be able to stop using chemicals/medicines??? Since we have been using them for the past 70 years or more. I would say no.......... <<< Strange, many of us haven't been using chemicals for years and some of us are lucky enough to never have used them at all. -- Scot Mc Pherson The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Bradenton, FL USA http://beewiki.linuxfromscratch.org http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/OrganicBeekeepers/ mailto:scot@linuxfromscratch.org . ` , ` ' .,';`,. ``. '. _/^\_ :;.,';`'.,` `., ' '`, /_____\ .:.,"'` /\_____/\ .,:`'" \###/.,';` :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:21:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott said: That's actually pretty speculative. Chems have a good likelihood to not work AT ALL in the near future and arguable that they already don't. Those words are a quote from two of the most respected geneticists the U.S. ever produced. Harry Laidlaw & Robert page on the last page of the fantastic book "Queen Rearing & Bee Breeding". "Written for beekeepers who know little about genetics and geneticists who know little about beekeeping" The words describe the overwelming mindset of commercial beekeepers today (and many hobby & sideline). >Its not about higher prices, its about starvation. You lost me here Scott? > There is already a group of people working out the problem independent of any funded research and many of us already desire and are willing and able to help and already giving help to other beekeepers to successfully keep bees without chems. Admirable! A step in the right direection! There are methods to keep bees without chems. I will list a few of the most popular. Watching the bees die from varroa and then buying a new package is popular with many beekeepers. Trying methods which the USDA-ARS has tried in labs and proven provided no varroa control is popular ( and writing about success on the internet until your hives die is also popular today). Using a wide variaty of IPM measures is popular. Only not popular with the commercial beekeeper due to obvious reasons we will not go into. $$$$$ Scott said: Its not just genetics, its also technique, diet and relearning authentic seasonal management. True about beekeeping in general but when it comes to the bloodsucking varroa the key to *long term success* and bringing back the feral colonies is genetics. I was given a 20 year formula for finding varroa tolerant bees by Dr. Shiminuki when he was head of the Beltsville bee lab. Eighteen years later I can say his method worked. We are using a bee which is several times more varroa tolerant than the Russian bee and not aggressive. Many methods to find the varroa tolerant bee are either doomed to failure or will take twice as long. If we had the Russian & SMR bee back at the start perhaps the result could have been found faster. Also the failure of the Baton Rouge bee lab to find a varroa tolerant bee through working with all the survivor queens sent to Dr. Harbo from U.S. beekeepers opened my eyes. Dr. Harbo has been an inspiration. Dr. Harbo's findings that trying to find the varroa tolerant bee from simply breeding from the hive with the lowest mite count was doomed to failure also opened my eyes. Not the rest of the beekeepers searching for the varroa tolerant bee but certainly mine. Scott said: Genetics are an important part of the equation, but its not the whole equation, and its also something most people don't understand. Its not about finding the right hybrid. O but it is! The pure Russian is not the bee I prefer (although I have ended up with a bunch). You can inbreed and fix a trait such as SMR but the bee itself is of little value. The key is to find the right combination of traits in a hybrid and then be able to reproduce the same bee over and over for beekeepers is what beekeepers are looking for. My search is over. I wish all setting out on the journey the best of luck! Add varroa pressure and try to kill off 50% of your varroa tolerant experiment hives a year and then breed from survivors because at the first survival is all that matters! Once you get the genetics then raise queens and requeen your hives. Sounds so simple! If you want to shorten your journey buy a Purvis Brothers breeder queen , Charlie Harper Russian breeder queen, Glenn Apiaries SMR breeder queen or Marla Spivak hygienic queen to work into your survivor line. Still took years but the above lines helped in the search. Keep records because it will be of little use if you come up with a varroa tolerant bee but do not know what combination of lines Yours or the above) the result was. Open mating is hit and miss unless you live in a remote area or on an island. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:55:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: article In-Reply-To: <000001c55fa8$7151d520$e7fbf704@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scot Mc Pherson wrote: >>>>>>Will we ever be able to stop using chemicals/medicines??? Since we >>>>>> >>>>>> >have been using them for the past 70 years or more. I would say >no.......... <<< > >Strange, many of us haven't been using chemicals for years and some of >us are lucky enough to never have used them at all. > > Curious about how? I know there are reports of AHB in Fla and they do well. Plus, chemicals is the wrong word. Pesticides and antibiotics would be better. My bees (and I) ingest chemicals daily and do fine. The chemicals include water, honey (a veritable stew of chemicals), complex carbohydrates (pollen), even air (oxygen). Pesticides would include essential oils, FGMO, thymol, oxalic, formic (the list is large) and not just Apistan and cumophose. (Nature also manufactures pesticides. Ever eaten brocolli? ) Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:08:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Smart, Billy Y" Subject: Re: Feral Hive, Gas Tank, Activity Returns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Last year I had a neighbor call me to remove a hive that was in a automobile gas tank like the one you describe, except this one was laying flat on the ground and the bees were flying in and out of the tank spout. I went there after dark and took it to my apiary and lay it flat on the ground. Centered on the top surface of this tank was a fitting for what I assume to be the gas gauge. It had a round hole pattern and was around 3" in diameter. I was able to remove this plug from the tank which in effect gave me a upper entrance to the tank. I then placed a deep box of drawn foundation on top of the tank and centered about this hole and I sealed the interface with duct tape. On this went a inner cover, upside down with a notch to serve as an entrance, on top of this a inverted gallon bucket with 1:1 syrup, a empty deep box to cover the syrup bucket and then a telescoping cover. I leveled the tank so that the hive box would be level. I plugged the spout hole with duct tape to force the bees through the deep box and in and out through the entrance in the upper part of the box as provided by the inner cover. It took several weeks, but eventually the colony migrated into that upper deep and when I found the queen up there I put a queen excluder under the deep box and left the tank under the hive for three more weeks so any brood that was still in the tank would be able to hatch. After this period of time I set the tank aside and let the colony rob the tank for a week or so before I disposed of it. Assuming your tank has a gauge hole on top of it like mine did you could do the same procedure. Since yours is tilted at 60 deg., laying the tank flat on the ground would bring the comb out of orientation and I think force the colony into the top box quicker than mine. Billy Smart Rock, KS :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 12:32:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ted Hancock Subject: Re: article Once upon a time there were two beekeepers named Doom Gloom and Sonny Optimist,who lived in the land of Oz. One sunny day Doom Gloom said, "There are a lot of dangerous parasites and diseases of the beehive that we don't yet have. So let's tighten up our border controls so we never get them. Sonny Optimist replied, " Stop trying to scare people." Pretty soon the bees in the land of Oz had to make room for hive beettles, varroa mites, tracheal mites and African bees. And Doom Gloom said to Sonny Optomist, "I hope you've learned something from all this. Now let's tighten our border controls so we don't get any more of these nasty pests." But Sonny Optimist said, "There you go trying to scare people again. In ten years you'll have to admit you were wrong. Tra la la la la. And even if you are right, this is the way modern agriculture works. Bigger is always better and everyone should have the same pest/disease profile. It makes for a level playing field. Oh my, I think the sun is coming out again." End of story. And the moral of the story is: Sonny Optimist has very few peers when it comes to talking bees and beekeeping but sometimes he is a little too optimistic. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:38:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: idea In-Reply-To: <25.5ffe3549.2fc3143a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harold Rogers wrote: >I have an idea about putting the entrance for bees to come and go along the >20 in. >side instead of the 16 in. side. > > Some of us, myself included, keep a small entrance (3-5 inches) all year around. Plus an occasional drilled hole in a hive body. Seems to be fine with the bees here in Maine, but they are fairly laid back. I guess where the weather might be hotter and life more frenetic, a very large entrance could be needed, but I really cannot see that it would. Seems it would only make the bees lives more difficult with 4 more inches to guard. I have seen some large openings in nature, but even then, the bees tend to close them up to a guardable size. One interesting feature would be the bees would move easily along the frames from east to west, instead of around them. That might, in the winter, make the northern, coldest frames difficult for the bees to winter in and reduce "available" stores. It certainly would change the heat dynamics in the hive in winter. It might also change the brood pattern in the hive, since now, winter or summer, the coldest frames are the ones toward the north, so the nest would be closer to the south. But then you would get most of the air circulation directly onto the brood nest... lots of speculation, so wonder if it has been tried. It is certainly ingrained that the frames are north south and entrance toward the south. For overwintering, you could change the bottom boards and orientation of the hives every spring and fall, but my back has a strong vote in my hive management and expect my bees to vote the same (benign dictatorship). Why do you want the larger entrance? And why do you want to change the orientation? What do you hope to accomplish? Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:43:52 -0400 Reply-To: Ronald.Teitelbaum@NeighborCare.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron Teitelbaum Subject: Mite Resistant Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All, I wouldn't mind spending more for queens that are mite resistant. My wife and I only have two hives, and this is our first year in bee keeping. We are still having trouble with swarming and have gone through at least 4 queens in the last year. I would think that having better genetic stock would help the local feral colonies too by providing better drones for future generations. We are trying to do Integrated Pest Management, using screened boards, removing drone comb ... and so far our mite level is pretty low, but I would love to farm as chemical free as possible, so far we have only used Fumigillin - B in the winter feed and sugar and grease patties. Is anyone keeping a list of breeders and traits or can someone point me to some good information about how to find these queens? Is anyone having any success after buying these queens? Is anyone farming miteicide free? Ron :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 12:50:14 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: article Two posts in one month? Well, this issue is "just that critical". > Once upon a time there were two beekeepers named Doom Gloom > and Sonny Optimist... But the labels are backwards for the viewpoints expressed! A pessimist thinks that things can't get any worse than they are now. An optimist knows that they can. I, of course, am an optimist. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 13:44:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Feral Hive, Gas Tank, Activity Returns If I could politely add a note of caution: Be very careful with your smoker or flame, even old gas tanks can hold enough hydrocarbons to explode. Cheers, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC 27320 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:32:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Feral Hive, Gas Tank, Activity Returns In-Reply-To: <200505231744.j4NGLMZH021351@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck Norton wrote: >If I could politely add a note of caution: Be very careful with your >smoker or flame, even old gas tanks can hold enough hydrocarbons to >explode. > > A valid caution but if there was that much gas or diesel still in the tank, there would not be any bees in there either. Still, better safe than sorry. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:32:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: article In-Reply-To: <200505231632.j4NGSofP021658@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Hancock wrote: >Pretty soon the bees in the land of Oz had to make room for hive beettles, >varroa mites, tracheal mites and African bees. And Doom Gloom said to >Sonny Optomist, "I hope you've learned something from all this. > Not really since that was not how it all took place, but makes for a good fairy tale. We actually had AHB in Maine from a generator shipped to a power plant in Maine from Brazil! No big bad wolf involved. Most pests are here not because of legal importation but illegal. In today's world, sealed borders are porous. Canada outlawed Varroa and our nasty bees crossed the border anyway. Shameful. At least my bees were not involved. Tracheal could have been here in the US scores of years before we figured out what it was. It might have come across with the first bees to come here. Like most diseases and pests, it takes a while to figure out it is a disease or pest. Even in all that, I have no problem with control of imports. Just it is not a black or white fairy tale. Bill Truesdell (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain) Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:00:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >But Sonny Optimist said, "There you go trying to scare people again. In ten years you'll have to admit you were wrong. Maybe one of our Canada BEE-L beekeepers will post the doom & gloomers which said the import of Australian bees into Canada tewnty years ago would cause the ruin of Canadian beekeeping. We can all have a big laugh at their expense. Sonny Optimist was right then! >And even if you are right, this is the way modern agriculture works.Bigger is always better and everyone should have the same pest/disease profile. Smaller won't get almond or the U.S. pollination done. >End of story. I enjoyed the story very much! I think I might make sonny optimist and gloom & doom a regular part of my posts. >And the moral of the story is: Sonny Optimist has very few peers when it comes to talking bees and beekeeping but sometimes he is a little too optimistic. Kind of you to say Ted! You have got to be optimistic in today's beekeeping world! I see solutions in places others see only a unsolvable problem. I have had many of the best minds of beekeeping whisper to me "varroa will win in the end". Those which poo poo the current virus issue going on had better take another look. The worlds best beekeeping minds say if all you have got is a 70% varroa control then you will have to live with PMS and the problems associated with virus spores. Gloom & doom say today's problems are only the tip of the iceburg. I say to Gloom & Doom the Russian and varroa tolerant bee does not have virus issues like the non varroa tolerant bee. No PMS signs. Their reply is that can't be. Researchers can not explain the fact but is true! Many said a varroa tolerant bee would never happen as the trait was not inheritable. They have now been proven wrong and Dr. Harbo vindicated. Dr. Warwick Kerr( worlds foremost bee geneticist years ago) said he had isolated the genes which made AHB aggressive in 1967 (even named the genes) and could breed a bee with all the good traits of AHB without the bad. At the USDA in 1967 Dr. Gloom & Doom stopped the work. Sure wish we had Dr. Kerr's modified AHB bee now. Totally varroa tolerant & a high yield honey producer. O yes the modern Dr. Gloom & Doom says Kerr would never have been successful and whispers in my ear. "I don't want to to research on those AHB" I am still learning about honey bees! Hope I always will. Actually today's beekeeping is more interesting than years ago when the only problem was foulbrood. Sincerely, Bob Harrison " what we don't know is so vast it makes what we do know seem absurd" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:13:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: swarm on ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I just returned from a swarm call to Lake Lafayette. For decades swarm calls were swarms hanging in trees or at least off the ground. I have had three now in the last five years that were on the ground. In a circle about two and a half feet in diameter and a couple inches deep. The owner of the house said he watched these land about an hour before I came. I never was able to get the queen on the other two I had on the ground. I use a swarm box now my friend Horace Bell made and gave to me. I believe he was trying to prove to me he is really retiring! He has still got his smoker. The swarm box works great. Has had many swarms in it before. I picked up several last week so queen pheromone is in the box. When I sat the box down next to the swarm they started in the box. Reason I believe they might have been queenless. I think I might smoke the swarm through a queen excluder to see tomorrow. Have others on the list seen similar swarms on the ground. I wondered if perhaps an old Bumble bee hole was in the deep grass under the swarm. These bees were defensive for a swarm. The people were very nice and glad to get the problem taken care of. Always happens when you have been working bees all day but although I pass the buck on swarms whenever I can ( better put in as many in our area know I chase very few swarms other than my own) I still feel picking up swarms is a beekeepers obligation to the community. comments on ground swarms? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 00:27:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ted Hancock Subject: Re: swarm on ground clipped queen. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 06:09:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: swarm on ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted said: clipped queen. I could not find a queen in the other two swarms. Maybe I got a queen yesterday. I will smoke the swarm through an excluder and see if the queen is clipped. Thanks! The owners of the house said they did not know of other bees in the area. I use the area of the swarm.Right now my hives for the area are in a holding area but will be moved into the area starting today. I have never put any hives in the area with clipped wings but common among hobby beekeepers ordering marked & clipped. Most my queens are marked. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 07:27:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gauthier Buddy Subject: swarm on ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I, too, experience a swarm on the ground this year. This was my first one ever. I brought 5 empty frames with comb on it and laid them stacked up next to the swarm. They immediately climbed up on the comb. Within 2 minutes, I had them in a box. Just some stragglers left remaining. I thought there would be a hole in the ground, but there was comb built on the ground. The wax was attached to the ground, leaves and grass. It did not have the look of honeycomb, just "blobs" of wax poorly put together. The family that called me stated that they had been in their yard for about a week and a half. Buddy Gauthier Information Technology Analyst / Beekeeper Hobbyist CAMECO® Industries, Inc. Thibodaux, LA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 07:33:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: preacher Subject: Re: swarm on ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bob, I have picked up three swarms on the ground in the last three years. One was queenless, the other two had queens. With what i seen it looked like the old queen couldnt go any further. You are right though, they craw right up to the box. preacher :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 05:02:30 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: swarm on ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob & All, I have seen swarms on the ground several yards from hives only in recent years and these queens did not have clipped wings, I do not clip wings. I do not know if it means anything but it sort of started after I started keeping Russians. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:08:44 +0100 Reply-To: Phil Moore Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Phil Moore Subject: Re: swarm on ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Ted said: > clipped queen. > > I could not find a queen in the other two swarms. Maybe I got a queen > yesterday. I will smoke the swarm through an excluder and see if the queen > is clipped. Thanks! > I had a swarm on the ground this year which had a virgin, it was close to the hive it came from but had to cross 2 sheep fences and 20m of rough grass. I have seen this before in Hemel Hempsted (UK) on a golf course in open shrub land. regards Phil Moore :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 12:57:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Howe Subject: swarm on the ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had a swarm on the ground just last week, actually on the neighbors = concrete patio. The neighbors were too frightened to let me open the = back door for fear of bees flying in so I waited and they then migrated = to my fence where I had them collected with a vacuum gizmo. There was a = queen and her wings were not clipped. John Howe :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 22:14:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Varroa resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob harrison said: "Dr. Harbo's findings that trying to find the varroa tolerant bee from simply breeding from the hive with the lowest mite count was doomed to failure also opened my eyes". Bob, i would appreciate knowing where you got the info that upholds the above statement. I am breeding as best i can for varroa resistance and have made definite progress.I do use queens that have low mite counts so the above statement is of special importance to me. thanks John Horton Greenbrier Honey farm Huntsville Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 23:16:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Removing a colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just taken on a commission to remove what appears to be a rather large colony of honeybees from a warehouse wall. It is a cinder block wall and I suspect the colony follows one of the hollow vertical runs, but the owners do not want to dismantle the wall. The bees gained access where the adjacent wall pulled away leaving a 15 foot long gap that was stuffed with insulation to stop the breeze. Now they want to repair the wall, but no one will touch the job until the bees are gone. The exterminator refused to deal with honey bees. I have removed bees from many situations, but have only read about trapping bees using a queen-right bait hive and a bee escape. I would appreciate any thoughts that might help my learning curve. I intend to document the effort thinking it might be of use in the future. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 15:48:35 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Removing a colony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Larry, I have not done removals from cinder block walls but here are a couple of thoughts: 1. Smoke the bees and pull the insulation away to expose the area for a better look. The nest may be right there behind the insulation - the cinder block runs are a bit too small cross-sectionally for a good nest. 2. Should the nest be in the cinder block runs after all, identify which runs are occupied. Use a masonary drill to make exploratory holes below and above the entrance to find the extent of the nest. Use a stephoscope although the buzz may not carry well through the wall. Once you reach this point, you have two options: Option 1. Cement the run under the nest and slowly fill the run with water (hopefully the water won't seep out any side holes). The bees and the queen will slowly emerge from the run and you should be able to collect them with a bee vac. You won't recover the combs and the brood. Option 2. Starting at the bottom of the nest, make holes in increments of 12 in. to be able to reach up and remove chunks of comb (if your hand will fit in there). Smoke the bees heavily first or use Bee-Go (or equivalent) to force the bees up to remove comb chucks easier. Use a bee vac near the entrance to collect the bees. It won't be easy - good luck! May want to use scaffolding instead of a ladder. You'll be there for a while. Take pictures as you go. Waldemar Long Island, NY PS.1 There was an article in Bee Culture a few months ago about a removal job in a brick home. They had removed some bricks to gain access to the newly established swarm though. PS.2 Using a wire mesh cone over the entrance in the wall and a queenright hive next to the entrance is an option but will take several weeks. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- to remove what appears to be a rather large colony of honeybees from a warehouse wall. It is a cinder block wall... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 11:15:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: swarm on ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, The swarm on the ground was queenless when ran through the excluder. I hived and added a Russian queen I had raised. Heard by me over the years from people when hiving a swarm> "Are you sure you got their leader" An old farmer in his eighties said the above. I live on a livestock farm. Each group of animals has a leader. I guess the old farmer felt a "leader" has strayed the group of bees from the hive. "How many times do you get bitten?" One person said she was told you get bitten by a bee and stung by a wasp. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 11:47:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Varroa resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John asks: Bob, i would appreciate knowing where you got the info that upholds the above statement. Directly from John Harbo. I believe if you go to the Baton Rouge Bee lab web site then click on the part which explains about SMR you will see the steps Dr. Harbo went through to come up with the SMR trait. Short version: Back when varroa first hit and we lost over half the commercial hives to varroa and the USDA-ARS said we lost 95% of the feral colonies. Dr. Harbo asked for beekeepers to send queens which had survived to Baton Rouge. The lab received many queens. The lab started keeping track of varroa load and then raising queens from those with the lowest varroa load. The project meant with a small amount of success but Daughters often times had no varroa tolerance at all. So Dr. Harbo started looking deeper (and still is) and discovered a better way to find the varroa tolerant bee. SMR & PMB. Both explained at the website . In short the bee lab does not select its breeder queens solely on a low varroa count as the method (although an indicater of varroa tolerance) was not successful when the ONLY method used to select a breeder queen. John said: I am breeding as best i can for varroa resistance and have made definite progress.I do use queens that have low mite counts so the above statement is of special importance to me. Why re invent the wheel? What you are trying to do was the best we had 18 years ago . Now even a varroa tolerant hybrid used as a breeder queen would add useful genetics and speed your search. One of the breeder queens I suggested would put your search in fast forward. I will say it is possible to inbreed the varroa tolerance gene in a small group of bees breeding from survivors. I have done the exact thing myself! I know the method works. But I will fast forward to the end. You will end up with a bee with a spotty brood pattern and usually several bad traits but will survive varroa. Not usually without slight PMS. Not the bee I would like to keep around but if crossed with the right cross you might get the bee you are looking for. Only my opinion and not the opinion of all those searching for the varroa tolerant bee but if your final bee you have come up with has PMS symptoms however slight I would go back to the drawing board. Others do not see slight PMS as a serious issue. I do. Also when you get to the breed queen stage in your search John take the future breeder queen and apply varroa pressure. The real test of a line. I would love to publish results of popular US queen producers lines survival when varroa pressure was added but will not. Shocking! When you move bees into California in areas of hives crashing from varroa and being robbed out you need a bee which can handle extra varroa pressure. Commercial beekeeping adds stress to hives. Hives under stress do not handle mites & disease well. Sincerely, Bob Harrison "Trying to be Sonny Optimist but needing to get the truth out" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 22:07:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: article In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tim wrote: Even big cattlemen use imported semen, etc.. Today's agriculture is specialized, and it is specialized not because of government conspiricies or anything like that, it's simply more efficient. Reply: Guess it depends upon what part of the USA you are in....don't really see it out here on the big ranches, or maybe I am missing something, and watching something else when in the field! :>) Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Tucson, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 07:17:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Andrew Dewey Subject: wanted for blueberry pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wanted immediately: bees that will fly in 45 degree weather, pay no attention to gale force winds, ignore driving rain, coax swollen blueberry blossoms to open, emit pheromones that repulse bears and require no supplemental feeding. Please deliver to Washington County, Maine ASAP. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 05:23:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: article,cattle breeding In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dee Lusby wrote: > Tim wrote: > Even big cattlemen use imported semen, etc.. > --- Dee Lusby wrote: > Reply: Guess it depends upon what part of the USA you are in....don't really see it out here on the big ranches, or maybe I am missing something, and watching something else when in the field! :>) > Actually, according to my understanding, the cattlemen do use special breeding in their herds. They keep track of the progeny of their bulls, cull the ones that don't produce the traits they want < lean beef and not high fat beef>, and keep the ones that do. They use artificial insemination to try to produce these super bulls that they can then introduce into the herds. That's kind of what you did with your bees Dee, if I understand your breeding efforts correctly. You kept the queens that produced the resistant strains you wanted that still kept the other good traits, and destroyed the queens that were susceptable to the mite pressures that were placed on them. Correct me if I am wrong here. Mike __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 09:53:21 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Joel N. Swink" Subject: blueberries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrew, I have the same problem with blueberry pollenation here in Oregon. =20 Although I have about half a million bees in my front yard living = directily adjacent to my blueberry patch I have never, never, seen a = honey bee working the blossoms regardless of the temperature or any = other condition of the weather. =20 The bumblebees, however, love the blueberry nectar. Their longer = tongues can reach the nectary even though their heads cannot be forced = into the restricted opening of the blossom. =20 The bumble bees visiting my yard must have nests close by since they = aren't selective like honeybees. In past years I have noticed a lack of = bumblebees in my yard and in those years the blueberry set was = dreadfully poor. I have toyed with the idea of making a stack of nests = for them. I remember seeing plans in my local newspaper a while ago but = I have not seen any since. Is there anybody out there with plans for a = bumble bee home? By the way, the link at the bottom of your message dated 5/26 2:30 pm = did not function. =20 Joel Swink, :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 20:21:32 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: swarm on ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The striking thing about ground swarms is the tight circle they form - there is a very definite edge, an almost perfect circular shape, no loosening of the cohesive impule on the outer fringe. So I was surprised when Bob found no queen - something was maintaining cohesion. I have usually found either an old queen or a small virgin. I have concluded it is just a matter of the swarm flying and a weak queen being able to go no further, so she just drops. Could a small virgin have got thru the excluder? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 14:14:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Bumblebee nests In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- "Joel N. Swink" wrote: I remember seeing plans in my local newspaper a while ago but I have not seen any since. Is there anybody out there with plans for a bumble bee home? > > Joel Swink, > Joel, Try looking in your newspaper's archives. You might even be able to find it by topic. Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 18:43:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Bumble Bee Nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A quick google search turned up a good reference at: http://members.aol.com/beetools/bumble.htm There is also a bumble bee list (BOMBUS-L) that used to be hosted at UAlbany, but migrated to I don't know where (Guelph?). Peter Kevin, Liz Day, are you out there? Bumbles are way cool, but Apis rules! Cheers, Aaron :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 20:08:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Donald Campbell Subject: Re: Bumblebee nests MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Here's a bumblebee nest you can purchase, or if your handy, make yourself. Shortcut to: http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page1342.html and another one http://www.hdra.org.uk/factsheets/gg31.htm A good google will produce more hits, I'm sure! Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Stoops" To: Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Bumblebee nests > --- "Joel N. Swink" wrote: > I remember seeing plans in my local newspaper a while > ago but I have not seen any since. Is there anybody > out there with plans for a bumble bee home? >> >> Joel Swink, >> > > Joel, > Try looking in your newspaper's archives. You > might even be able to find it by topic. > > Mike > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 02:01:37 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Apparently Formic Acid is Commonly Used in Agriculture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did not know this, but according to http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/f/fo/formic_acid.htm, "The principal use of formic acid is as a preservative and antibacterial agent in livestock feed. When sprayed on fresh hay or other silage, it arrests certain decay processes and causes the feed to retain its nutritive value longer, and so it is widely use to preserve winter feed for cattle. In poultry industry, it is sometimes added to feed to kill salmonella". I wonder if obtaining bulk FA for this purpose might be simpler than obtaining FA for beekeeping? allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 22:56:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Bumble Bee Nest Setting up a bumble bee nest is something I have often considered doing as a fun project, but like many of those things I just haven't gotten around to doing it yet. One concern I've wondered about is how well they would survive near honey bees. It seems to me honey bees could easily overwhelm any bumble bee nest and steal what little honey bumble bees produce. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 20:21:57 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: article,cattle breeding In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mike writes: That's kind of what you did with your bees Dee, if I understand your breeding efforts correctly. You kept the queens that produced the resistant strains you wanted that still kept the other good traits, and destroyed the queens that were susceptable to the mite pressures that were placed on them. Correct me if I am wrong here. Reply: You are corrected then as when we shook down on second shakedown in 97 we went to a live and let die mode and I didn't even raise queens until we hit 500 colonies again and then only from survivor queens, after numbers came up and with variability again we got something to choose from again. Grafted about 2000 Then, but since then havn't raised queens and have split from straight surivors while going to mode of using sun cycles to let the bees choose and choose they are. It's different following the drones and how the worker castes break out and sun cycles, but does work with effort. We are about 900 hives again and holding and growing as we keep redoing equip. Saying that when and if I do raise queens I do cull queens by time of year and coloration to local area. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 23:30:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Howe Subject: miniature Langstroth hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anybody help me? In some catalog, I can't locate which, I saw advertised a miniature, = quite small, hive made of wood complete in every detail: a bottom board, = two hive bodies with frames, inner cover, and a telescoping cover. It = was being sold for educational display purposes. I am anxious to get my = hands on it but I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it. It = was recently, too- within the last six months. I tried to google for it, = unsuccessfully. Anybody see it? John Howe :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 11:06:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rosalind James Subject: Re: wanted for blueberry pollination What kind of blueberries do you have? Honey bees are not especially good pollinators of blueberries, they give variable results and are particular to some varieties. Bumble bees are better, but no really good methods have yet been developed for field use of bumble bees. Also, in Nova Scotia, they are testing the use of the alfalfa leafcutting bees for pollination of low bush blueberries. This bee can be purchased in large numbers, but it's too late for you to try them this year because they require a 21 d incubation period before release. If wild bees are present in your field, they can be very good pollinators. Many wild bees will fly in colder weather than will honey bees and alfalfa leafcutting bees, and they can get into the blueberry flower better. Rosalind James USDA-ARS Pollinating Insect Biology Research Unit Logan, UT :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 12:40:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: BOMBUS-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >a bumble bee list (BOMBUS-L)...migrated to I don't know where (Guelph?) It’s over at the University of Maryland. There are addresses and instructions on Google for subscribing to it. However, those addresses that I followed, LISTSERV@umdd.umd.edu only return a cryptic undeliverable mail message. This does work: To subscribe to Bombus-L an e-mail needs to be sent to: listserv@listserv.umd.edu with a single line in the message (not the subject) section: SUBSCRIBE BOMBUS-L Their computer will send a reply that needs to be answered in order to join the list. When accepted you will receive a confirmation message giving more information on posting, etc. While similar to Bee-L, Bombus-L does have some differences particularly in accessing their archives which are filed as monthly logs. Hope this helps you bumble bee enthusiasts. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 11:25:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: miniature Langstroth hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anybody help me? Betterbee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 12:50:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: wanted for blueberry pollination In-Reply-To: <200505271506.j4REwinL015035@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rosalind James wrote: >If wild bees >are present in your field, they can be very good pollinators. Many wild >bees will fly in colder weather than will honey bees and alfalfa >leafcutting bees, and they can get into the blueberry flower better. > > Even though the original post was more about the weather here in Maine (we expect sun by next Thursday- be up to high 60s!), the use of other sources for pollination is of interest. There have been studies using Mason bees for blueberry pollination but it seems that even though they are better pollinators, there just are not the numbers needed for pollination. I understand they are used in Washington State for cherry pollination with success. I am sure that climate is another factor that makes their use in Maine problematic. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 18:02:45 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Bumble Bee Nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Dick Allen" wondered: > about is how well they would survive near honey bees. I do not think that is a problem. I have often had bumblebee nests under the floors of hives. There would be very little for the honeybees to rob - not worth the effort. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 10:35:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: miniature Langstroth hive In-Reply-To: <00ee01c5626c$6e4b3620$080ba8c0@john> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Betterbee has one. I can't get the link to work right now but their listed in the catalog as product #MHIVE1 and #MHIVE2. See www.betterbee.com Others may have it as well. Mike Rossander __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 12:43:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Bumblebee nests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Don & All, > Here's a bumblebee nest you can purchase, or if your handy, make yourself. > Here's plans for one you can make; http://tomclothier.hort.net/page38.html . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 16:50:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Betterbee Info Subject: Re: miniature Langstroth hive In-Reply-To: <20050527173550.57642.qmail@web51507.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Betterbee has one. I can't get the link to work right now but their listed >in the catalog as product #MHIVE1 and #MHIVE2. See www.betterbee.com Try the link below. It may be what you are looking for, if not let me know. Link to mini hive: http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=1215 Shane Betterbee, Inc 8 Meader Road Greenwich, NY 12834 1-800-632-3379 Orders 1-518-692-9802 Info/Fax www.betterbee.com Betterbee has one. I can't get the link to work right now but their listed in the catalog as product #MHIVE1 and #MHIVE2. See www.betterbee.com Others may have it as well. Mike Rossander __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 17:53:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Bumblebee nests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From the URL Aaron provided this cautionary note is given: “Nest boxes must be sterilized and contaminated items disposed of each year. Consequently it is suggested that you DO NOT USE PLYWOOD expect for tops which are not in contact with the bees, unless you plan to replace it each year. It has been found that plywood cannot normally be properly sterilized.” In the URL Donald Campbell gave, a picture of a bumble bee house is shown made out of plywood. The plans in the URL Keith Malone gave mention using scrap plywood for construction. I guess it’s true after all--don’t believe everything seen on the internet. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 20:38:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Otto Hoel Subject: A growing problem... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I'm a backyard bee-keeper with three hives, in my second season. My problem is swarms. I don't want any, but far more importantly, my neighbors don't want any. However my bees have so far been perfectly happy ignoring our wishes. Early this spring I had two swarms, which I managed to catch, and it looks like one of my hives are getting ready again. Lots of bees on the outside, some of them hanging down from the bottom board. I am going to open this hive tomorrow, re-arrange the hive bodies and possibly replace a couple of frames of brood with empty frames. I hate killing off my bees, even if it is just some of them, but any more swarms settling down on my neighbors trees will probably mean they will all have to go. I don't want anybody calling the City Admin asking about rules for bee-keeping in residential areas. There are kids here, backyard swings, and pools. And at least one mother who seems to get quite upset by the sight of a flying insect near her kids. That she is quite irrational doesn't really matter. So, how do I prevent the bees from doing what comes very naturally to them? Is it even possible? Otto :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 17:34:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Bumblebee nests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dick & All, > I guess it's true after all--don't believe everything seen on the internet. > So which will you not believe Dick? I personally do not believe they must be sterilized. I capture a bumble bee nest from my skirting on my home when I was scraping it to build a new skirting. This colony was built within the insulation and I would bet it was not sterile. Bumble bees in the wild are just not going to find a sterile cavity to build the nest. I do agree with you though, you can not believe all you read on the internet, just read some of the post here on Bee-L and on other lists. Bees have been taking up residence in a completely non sterile environment for much longer than man has been around trying to sterilize everything. I would not worry about trying to set up bumble bee nest in a completely sterile box. You may not want to use a box over again after bumble bees set up once upon a time in it though. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 21:05:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Subject: Re: A growing problem... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You cannot stop bees from swarming unless you are into them every other day and then sometimes they will slip a queen cell past you. Lionel :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 22:50:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: swarm on ground MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Malone" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] swarm on ground Have picked up swarms off ground for at least 20 years. Don't believe it indicates anything in particular... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 23:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Removing a colony MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "waldig@netzero.com" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Removing a colony > Larry, > I think your safest bet is to use the screen cone in this case. I would not recommend using the water method, suppose you had to inject many gallons and somewhere a leek sprung and water damage occurred? I find that expandable foam works very well to inject into trapped out cavities or in some cases where the nest has been removed, depending in the cavity size. I like to recommend that the owner, have the cavity filled with insulation when possible, this almost assures against reinfestation from an undiscovered possible entrance. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 23:11:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: blueberries MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel N. Swink" To: Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:53 AM Subject: [BEE-L] blueberries A blueberry grower has just indicated to me that he has never seen so many honeybees working his bushes. I thought about this for a few minutes and came to the following supposition. We have had about a 1-1/2 weeks of rain, high winds and 40 deg. weather. My observation is that almost all nectar/pollen sources have been either blown or washed out. The structure of the blueberry blossom is such that it could quite well avoid much of these invironmental conditions thus being about the only source available. What say you botanists? Alden Marshall Hudson, NH 03051 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 07:56:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: A growing problem... In-Reply-To: <4297BD78.2080504@cox.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-43582CC1 > So, how do I prevent the bees from doing what comes very naturally to >them? Is it even possible? >Otto There are plenty of things you can do to slow or stop swarming. First, you need to inspect your colonies for swarm preparations. Just because they have a beard, doesn't mean swarming in imminent. You should begin swarm control before they start making plans. Not knowing where you are, it is difficult to say how to proceed. This is what I do. First, I give all colonies a super as the Dandelion is beginning to bloom...before the flow starts. Then, if there is a strong flow from Dandelion/Fruit Bloom, there is somewhere for the nectar to go. What you don't want, is nectar being placed in the broodnest where brood is hatching. That is surely a trigger to start swarm preparations. Next, reverse the brood chamber on the Dandelion flow. This disorganizes the broodnest, and places empty comb space at the top of the broodnest, making the colony think they aren't really so crowded after all. At the same time, add another super or two. This by itself will stop much swarming. If the bees are constructing swarm cells...and they are still young cells, they can be cut out. But, cutting cells can be a losing proposition. If you miss one, the colony will swarm anyway. Every cell, and every cup with an egg must be destroyed. Also, if there are mature cells, you must be sure they haven't swarmed yet. If you cut the cells after they have swarmed, the colony is doomed. Look in hatching brood for eggs. If there are plenty of freshly laid eggs, then they probably haven't swarmed, and the cells can be safely cut out. Once the bees start making honey, they will stop swarm preparations...as long as they have enough empty super space to store their nectar. Remember, nectar is 85% water, and takes up a lot of comb space before being ripened into honey. Try to keep an empty super on top all through the flow. In those colonies that are starting swarm preparations, you must re-inspect in a week or so. Some will rebuild cells, and swarm...no matter what you do. I believe these colonies want a new queen. Swarming is a requeening process for the colony. Some requeen through supercedure, some by swarming. If the colony persists in their desire to swarm, make a nuc...replacing the combs taken from the parent with empty combs...and place the nuc over the inner cover. The escape hole must be taped closed, and an entrance given to the rear of the hive for the nuc. Give it a new queen. In three weeks to a month, go below and kill the old queen, and unite the parent with the nuc. Maintaining young queens in your colonies is one of the best way to reduce swarming. Hope this helps Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.15 - Release Date: 5/22/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 12:50:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Bumblebee nests >....which will you not believe.. I personally do not believe they must be sterilized... Me either. I think that may be a bit over cautious. Beekeepers generally don't sterilize their hives. Bumble bees sometimes use old mouse nests for their homes according to what I've read. It seems doubtful those have been sterilized before the bumble bees moved in. Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 16:04:16 -0400 Reply-To: wwfarm@wctel.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carolyn Ehle Subject: Re: blueberries In-Reply-To: <004201c56333$615bb850$6500a8c0@BLINE> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Not a botanist, but a biologist and natural historian involved in pollination ecology for years...I'd say it's an excellent hypothesis, and matches some of my observations in the Virgin Islands (not blueberries) and South Carolina. Here in SC, if there are any problems with the concurrent maple bloom, our wild blueberries are full of honeybees and the fruit set is immense. I also noted that during last year's rainy spring, the bees were reduced to collecting pollen from the edges of fallen leaves where the water had pooled, leaving a rim of pollen (mostly wind-borne). The tulip poplar was completely washed out. Though most of the honey made looked like blackberry, there was so much oak pollen mixed in that many of us are highly allergic to it, even in minute amounts. So far this year things are looking much better! > > A blueberry grower has just indicated to me that he has never seen so > many > honeybees working his bushes. I thought about this for a few minutes and > came to the following supposition. We have had about a 1-1/2 weeks of > rain, > high winds and 40 deg. weather. My observation is that almost all > nectar/pollen sources have been either blown or washed out. The > structure of > the blueberry blossom is such that it could quite well avoid much of > these > invironmental conditions thus being about the only source available. What > say you botanists? > > Alden Marshall > Hudson, NH 03051 > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 18:59:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Bumblebee nests "Bumble bees sometimes use old mouse nests for their homes according to what I've read. It seems doubtful those have been sterilized before the bumble bees moved in." That's true, my last call for swarm removal in Morro Bay CA. was a bumble bee hive in an old bird nest. They shared it with several other animals, including wax worms, of all things. I still can't believe the mentality of people who will pay me 50 bucks to get rid of something so interesting and so beneficial and so harmless, but there you go. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::