From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:35:57 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.2 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E31487F5 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEFvLM013111 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:36 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0506A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 66432 Lines: 1524 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:12:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Fishers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Do Fishers ( http://www.zoo.org/educate/fact_sheets/fisher/fisher.htm ) bother honey bee colonies? Aaron Morris - thinking some critter is molesting my hives! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:22:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Re: Fishers In-Reply-To: <63D883CB0A1B204EB053673DD882CB530D8F1427@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Aaron Said: thinking some critter is molesting my hives! Have you thought about Shrews? It is common to find damage by shrews in bee colonies that kept near lots of trees. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:24:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: david flathman Subject: absconding. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed after hiving a swarm, what is the best way to make sure they stay. the last swarm i hived left the next day. if i keep the bees shut in the box how long until they will stay. they just have bare pierco frames. will they starve or dehydrate in 12-24-36-48 hours?? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:02:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Timothy Eisele Subject: Re: absconding. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, david flathman wrote: > after hiving a swarm, what is the best way to make sure they stay. > the last swarm i hived left the next day. > > if i keep the bees shut in the box how long until they will stay. > they just have bare pierco frames. > will they starve or dehydrate in 12-24-36-48 hours?? Do you at least have a syrup feeder in there for them, so that they have something to eat? They aren't going to be in any shape to draw out bare Pierco if they don't have any food so that they can make wax. They'll certainly starve in pretty short order if you shut them in without *anything*. And, if they can't draw comb, then they can't raise brood, and in that case, why should they hang around? I haven't had any trouble with hiving swarms, but then again, so far I've been able to start them off with a full medium super of drawn comb, which lets them get off to a good start right away. I also give them at least half a gallon of sugar syrup immediately, which usually gets eaten in a day or two, so that certainly helps. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:36:38 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: absconding. In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT David, > after hiving a swarm, what is the best way to make sure they stay. > the last swarm i hived left the next day. > > if i keep the bees shut in the box how long until they will stay. > they just have bare pierco frames. > will they starve or dehydrate in 12-24-36-48 hours?? First of all, you might give them a couple of frames of drawn comb. Secondly, you might install them in a hive with a queen excluder placed underneath, on top of the bottom board. If there is no other entrance the queen will not be able to leave and the bees will ultimately begin building and remain. I would recommend at least the first, and if it makes you more comfortable add the second. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:09:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: absconding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" flathman@HOTMAIL.COM asked, > after hiving a swarm, what is the best way to make sure they stay. > the last swarm i hived left the next day. A frame of sealed brood will keep the swarm in the new box. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:39:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: absconding. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "david flathman" asked about swarms: > what is the best way to make sure they stay. > the last swarm i hived left the next day. In my view, the majority of swarms that abscond quickly are headed by new queens that have not yet mated properly. Whatever you do, they will fly again to mate and the bees will go with them - they have no future without the queen. Some people have suggested putting a queen excluder under the brood box, but this will simply result in a drone laying queen, sooner - if she has not mated at all - or later - if she has partially mated. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:28:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: david flathman Subject: Re: absconding In-Reply-To: <63D883CB0A1B204EB053673DD882CB530D8F142E@email.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed absolutely. if they have brood and food they are more apt to stay put. my question /comment also involves my concern regarding how long i can keep them confined before they starve/dehydrate. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:34:13 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: absconding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If you give them a frame or two of partially sealed brood, they'll feel compelled to care for it and stay. If they are headed by a "partially" virgin queen, she should be able to take additional flights from the new location to be "well" mated. Confining bees in warm weather will agitate them [which may induce absconding]. Better let them get out to forage or feed them sugar water if the weather is bad. Especially if you can only provide foundation. Waldemar Long Island, NY absolutely. if they have brood and food they are more apt to stay put. my question /comment also involves my concern regarding how long i can keep them confined before they starve/dehydrate. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:37:07 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Absondig -> queen's mating flights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Waldemar wrote: >>If you give them a frame or two of partially sealed brood, they'll = feel compelled to care for it and stay. If they are headed by a = "partially" virgin queen, she should be able to take additional flights = from the new location to be "well" mated.<<. Do you think that this happens? We have seen queens that have started = laying after a shortage of drones only to stop again after 2-3 months = and then start laying well again a couple of weeks later and go on to = head production colonies for two seasons. we have often thought that = they went for a second mating flight but have never witnessed it = actually happening. All queens are maked according to their line - so = little chance of a mix up with the queens. Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:27:41 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Absondig -> queen's mating flights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I raised several queens last year. I marked them as soon as they emerged [prior to mating flights]. One of the nucs with the new virgins was facing a neighbor's house - its new queen had just started laying - so I decided to turn it 180 deg. to alter their flying pattern. The next evening, I was very surprised to find a cluster of bees attached to the screened bottom of the nuc. (I keep nucs off the ground on bricks.) I first went through the nuc - very few bees and no queen. Then I shook the cluster off onto the ground. In the swarm of bees I spotted a marked queen. I placed the nuc in front of the bees on the ground and they all marched in with the queen. I can't be 100% sure but think the very young queen, that had just started laying, took a flight after I can rotated the nuc and returned to where the entrance used to be. Finding no entrance she followed the scent come down through the screened bottom. Other bees must have followed the same pattern. >From what I know queens take flight only to mate (or to leave with a swarm). I don't suppose this could have been a cleansing flight. Anyone else experience this? Waldemar >>If you give them a frame or two of partially sealed brood, they'll feel compelled to care for it and stay. If they are headed by a "partially" virgin queen, she should be able to take additional flights from the new location to be "well" mated.<<. Do you think that this happens? ... we have often thought that they went for a second mating flight but have never witnessed it actually happening. All queens are maked according to their line - :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:45:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: absconding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only time I have had this happen the bees clustered outside the hive each time they were put in. Eventually I realised that I had treated the floor with creosote some months previously. I changed the floor and they trooped in. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:25:32 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Absondig -> queen's mating flights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "waldig@netzero.com" wrote > From what I know queens take flight only to mate (or to leave with a > swarm). I don't suppose this could have been a cleansing flight. Anyone > else experience this? I read somewhere (sorry!) the other day that queens are known to take flights at other times. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:47:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: queen's mating flights In-Reply-To: <001a01c56799$b4db5f20$7b8a9ac2@haris8cjgnhodj> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Roger & All Waldemar said... >From what I know queens take flight only to mate (or to leave with a swarm). Queens can and do fly on a few occasions, but the occasions are rare and difficult to study. Why do queens fly ? Flying practice, Orienting, Mating and Swarming are the ones mentioned in books. Mating flights in themselves will vary in number according to race of bees. Many American strains that are based on Italian lines will only mate with something in the region of 7 or 9 drones. Each semen load is in the region of one microlitre and the queens spermatheca is also about one microlitre in volume. The semen is delivered by each drone into the median oviduct and after a batch of drones have mated the queen will return to the hive. During a period of time (often overnight) the semen in the median oviduct is homogenised and a portion of each drone's semen will be passed into the spermatheca with the excess volume being expelled. There are some differences with other races that mate with larger numbers of drones, because there are limits to the volume of the median oviduct a mating session can only continue until this organ is full, so the homogenising and compaction has to occur before a second flight can take place, this may be later in the same day or the following day. So there is a mechanism whereby a queen's tank can be 'topped up', quite what happens in some of the African strains that can mate up to seventy times is anybody's guess :-) Roger said... > We have seen queens that have started laying after a shortage of drones only to stop again > after 2-3 months and then start laying well again a couple of weeks later and go on to head > production colonies for two seasons. we have often thought that they went for a second > mating flight but have never witnessed it actually happening. I too have heard many reports of apparent additional matings, but accurate observations are very thin on the ground, it would seem that it is physically possible over a time scale of a few days, but the reports I mention vary from months to years, between possible top up matings. Queens do fly on occasions, and I believe that this is much more common than it has ever been written about, but why it happens I do not know, I conjecture that when it does happen... That a bunch of workers fly along with the queen, but this is based mostly on guesswork, because of the way I have had marked and numbered queens change places... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/flyingqueens.html Proving the effectiveness of top up mating after a few months could be done with a fairly simple experiment... A queen could be instrumentally inseminated with a small amount of semen (less than one micro litre) and monitored, such a queen would likely become a drone layer after a few months. The queen could then have a further insemination... If there were female offspring after this it would verify that the mechanism works after a time lapse. By using semen of known source, it could be verified that the new batch of female offspring was due to the second insemination, rather than a re-activation of the semen from the first dose. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Fall Back M/c, Build 5.02 (stable) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:34:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Absondig -> queen's mating flights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/06/05 11:17:43 GMT Daylight Time, beekeepers@STRATFORD-UPON-AVON.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: <> Beowulf Cooper argued against clipping because of this. There seems to be some sense in what he says, but I suppose it depends on how swarmy your bees are. Regards, Robert Brenchley :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:16:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: lameo cool Subject: plastic supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am considering buying some of the plastic supers shown under new products in the May Bee Culture magazine. Are there any disadvantages of plastic? I am aware that the old Walter T. Kelly plastic supers warped inward and the bees used propolis to attach the frame ends to the super walls. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks. Bob __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:05:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: david flathman Subject: Re: Absondig -> queen's mating flights In-Reply-To: <1f3.b0a1de9.2fd1d286@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed it appears that the swarm is settling in nicely. although i did not have any built out frames for them, they drank a cup of sugar/water and this time it did the trick. thank you all for the advice/suggestions. david flathman charleston sc :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:14:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Api Life Var Does anbody have any firsthand experiences using Api Life Var for treating mites? I'm especially interested in hearing about mite counts rather then hearing about casual observations. I understand that the climate will effect the efficiency of the product. I live in central Mn and intend to use it during Sept when the temps range from 40-80F Brian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:57:10 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Queen shortage? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I recently attempted to buy 2 queens and called around to quite a few smaller and larger outfits. I was very surprised to hear that a number of them were completely sold out for the rest of the season! I'm just curious to know what is going on. Are large commercial beekeepers rapidly expanding their hive numbers ahead of the next almond pollination season? Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:04:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Api Life Var MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian asks: Does anbody have any firsthand experiences using Api Life Var for treating mites? I have used Api life var for three seasons on some Italian & Carniolans bees with success. I let the bees go as far as they will go untreated and then treat these colonies. They are only bees from queen producers and not involved in any testing. Brian asks: I'm especially interested in hearing about mite counts rather then hearing about casual observations. I have saved large colonies with a natural fall over a 100-125 varroa in 24 hours. In a test situation with checkmite (was still working good then) I found the checkmite dropped three times the varroa in the first 24 hours of treatment but at the end of the treatment period the control was about the same. I had perfect weather and applied the api life var 3 times at 7-10 day intervals. Apistan & checkmite do not provide enough control in our area now. Brian asks: I understand that the climate will effect the efficiency of the product. I live in central Mn and intend to use it during Sept when the temps range from 40-80F August is better for our area for the simple reason varroa infestations are lower and the bees have already shut down raising brood. We always run a chance in Missouri of high temps in either month. *If* the bees are raising large amounts of brood and the temp climbs above 90F. you will see a small amount of dead brood but *in my opinion* not a loss of varroa control. I recommend the product! I have also tested the new similar thymol product being release by Dadant in Missouri & in Florida. I found the control similar to apli life var but in my opinion harder to apply as I tested (small pail with cards). I have been told by Dadant that their new thymol product will also come in a caulking tube for the larger beekeeper which would make the product easier for the large beekeeper to use. Although many report a 70% control I got a much higher control. My testing would put control for sure over 90% which works for me. My II Russian breeder queens, Russian bees/ Russian hybrids / Purvis brothers blue line Russian and Purvis Brothers gold line bees remain untreated. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:21:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Australian bee update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Terry Brown is arriving in K.C. on the 16th. of this month. Terry is currently visiting beekeepers in many countries. While in our area we will go through the Australian bees. I have got a new digital camera. Once done I will send my fall Australian bee update to ABJ for publication and a few pictures of Terry (crocodile dundee) Brown visiting us! Terry, Glenn and I will be calling each other mates and the rest of you blokes! Missouri has reached this year the no. two USDA rating of the largest cow/calf operation state right behind Texas. In fact we are within 50,000 horses of having as many horses as California. We have got zero wild kangaroos or wallabies (so far)! Terry is hand carrying a 100 of his best queens when he comes (complete with heath certificate). No worries mates! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Missouri outback :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:21:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Russian hybrids In-Reply-To: <000d01c568a9$b583c280$18bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Bob Harrison wrote: > My II Russian breeder queens, Russian bees/ Russian > hybrids / Purvis > brothers blue line Russian and Purvis Brothers gold > line bees remain > untreated. > > Bob Bob, What attriabutes have you noticed with your Russian hybrids? I have some pure Russians yellow/blue line and some pure SMR queens. I'm thinking of open mating some daughters and making splits for the rest of the summer. I have heard that hybrids of the Russians aren't so docile. What have been your observations? I have also heard that hybrids of SMRs retain most of the mite resistance of their mothers. Which queens would you use to make splits? Mike __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:00:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Funding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My friend, who is Professor of Beekeeping at Kerala Agricultural University, has had a paper on Thai Sac Brood Virus accepted for Apimondia. However, he is unlikely to be able to attend and present it due to a lack of funding. Can anyone suggest sourcees of funding that he might try? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:32:50 -0400 Reply-To: bee yard Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bee yard Subject: Maiden(?) queen on ground Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings! This morning we were checking our bee yard and agricultural fields and noticed that about 50 or so bees were on the ground near a pear tree. What appeared to bee a "small" swarm , may not have been the correct observation. It looked like the bees were "balling" a queen, but the queen was dead. We removed the queen and the bees still stayed in the area. Thinking..maybee the queen was on a maiden flight and died? There was only one drone with the "masses". Comments are appreciated. Regards, Herb/Norma Bee www.mainebee.com www.stonycritters.com "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. " Douglas Adams" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:10:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Queen shortage? In-Reply-To: <20050603.135738.6612.271230@webmail23.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:57 PM 6/3/2005, you wrote: >I recently attempted to buy 2 queens and called around to quite a few >smaller and larger outfits. I was very surprised to hear that a number of >them were completely sold out for the rest of the season! A number of northern outfits have had trouble with unseasonably cold weather April and May putting them seriously behind schedule. I'm also aware of at least one CA outfit that had an incubator failure and lost some 20,000 queens. I'm not sure what impact weather elsewhere or the massive losses we've heard about from some of the big commercial outfits may have made on the supply. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 08:31:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Harold Rogers Subject: e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the letter to Bee-L Bob Harrison was talking about the mite count with the various chemicals. In the letter he didn't mention how many hives he has and how many he checked. Also does he have out yards and how far apart are they from each other. There could be a great difference in the counts from different places. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:07:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Russian hybrids MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mike & All, These are only my general opinions on the lines I have had contact with. Others may have different experiences. Charlie Harper could provide better information on specific Russian color lines. Many Russian lines have been released as well as colors of SMR breeder lines. >. What attriabutes have you noticed with your Russian hybrids? Results all over the range but two crosses I see potential in. > I have heard that hybrids of the Russians aren't so docile. Some are and some aren't. I have had some carniolan/Russian crosses which very almost docile to a fault. Also some of the Russian/Russian lines released are not so docile. Certainly not a problem for the serious beekeeper or limit the area of their yards. A few of the lines need smoke used. >I have also heard that hybrids of SMRs retain most of the mite resistance of their mothers. It is my opinion the above is correct. All the F1 daughters of the red/yellow SMR breeder queens have had varroa tolerance. Also poor brood viability. Which queens would you use to make splits? I would decide on a drone source and add drone comb to the drone source colonies. I would then graft queens from the other lines and then evalute the results during next season. I would graft queens from the SMR queen and not use as a drone source.Others may feel differently. When open mating you can judge your results better if using the queen as the basis of your research and open mating as the unknown factor. Instrumental insemination is the professional way but need not stop the beekeeper from improving and doing his/her own research. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:29:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: queen's mating flights In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Another aspect of this phenomena of 'top up mating', is the possibility that the second flush of young could be from a supersedure queen that is laying alongside a now barren mother. Many beekeepers do not observe such daughters, because they are convinced that the marked queen is the one responsible for the eggs and the un-marked daughter goes un-noticed. Those apparent top up mating flights that have been directly observed, may have been such daughters that were un noticed, because the marked 'old' queen was found and assumed to be the one flying for mating. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Fall Back M/c, Build 5.02 (stable) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:33:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harold asks: In the letter he didn't mention how many hives he has and how many he checked. Hives I run as production I do not count nor do i monitor each hive in those yards. I KNOW they do not tolerate varroa and am not interested in finding survivors among those hives. Hives i run for production which are being not treated I simply cull those hives which I deem as not as varroa tolerant as I care to see. I usually check 24 hives with drops and have checked as many as 120 at a setting as I have made up 120 reusable sticky boards from 4X8 white panels. >Also does he have out yards and how far apart are they from each other.There could be a great difference in the counts from different places. I keep production hives in four counties in Missouri. ( Jackson, Lafayette, Johnson and Pettis ) on a regular basis. I am migratory so I move production hives around. Both treated an untreated hives. Test hives which provide information such as I posted are on permanent locations in a certain areas. Close by my operation so I can monitor closely at times. I like to put those on the road I travel regularly so I can drop by often. Yards with bees I don't care to use as a drone source I keep the farthermost from from home. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:02:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Absondig -> queen's mating flights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Robert Brenchley" wrote > Beowulf Cooper argued against clipping because of this. There seems to be > some sense in what he says, but I suppose it depends on how swarmy your > bees > are. The height of the entrance above the ground could also be a factor here. Where hives are on stands it could be very difficult for the queen to get back into the hive from the ground if she is clipped and has to climb back up. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:42:02 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Absondig -> queen's mating flights In-Reply-To: <000801c568f4$f3b8a340$38742a50@Computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter & all > The height of the entrance above the ground could also > be a factor here. Where hives are on stands it could be > very difficult for the queen to get back into the hive > from the ground if she is clipped and has to climb back > up. Queens are quite adept at climbing on woodwork, I have observed it many times with hives on pallets and fences that held mating nucs. The competence in climbing and walking is no different to a worker bee. Such walking about on woodwork has also been associated with queens flying and at the same time of day (for non initial mating reasons) that this discussion first started out on. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Fall Back M/c, Build 5.02 (stable) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:53:49 -0700 Reply-To: rosinbio@netscape.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruth Rosin Subject: The honeybee"dance language" (DL) controversy Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, The Nature (2005) radar-tracking study by Riley et al. has already created considerable excitement in the popular scientific news-media. The study, nonetheless, never did, nor could, salvage the DL hypothesis, because the whole study is simply totally irrelevant to the DL controversy. You would not, however, discern that much by simply reading the published report; which is (accidentally, or not), simply misleading. According to the report only 2 bees, ( out of the 19 radar-tracked bees released near the hive, for which flight-tracks are provided) "landed at the feeder". In response to questions about various details concerning the study, Uwe Greggers (the scientist who actually designed the study, however, informed me, among others, (in e-mail exchanges)), that those 2 bees did not actually land at the feeder. Instead, they only landed on the stand on which the feeder stood, but never found either the food, or the feeder (even when they were not more than 8 cm. away from the feeder). Anyone who questions that is free to personally check with him. What this simply means is that none of the bees radar-tracked in the study ever found any food in the field during that study. The honeybee DL hypothesis was, however, intended specifically to deal with the problem of how honeybee recruits find their foragers'-feeder, as well as other sources with the same major odor, in the field. It is in principle utterly impossible to even begin to address that problem by studying only bees that never found any food. Staunch DL supporters have throughout the years totally unnecessarily managed to make the DL controversy so complex and convoluted, to the point of occasionally completely loosing sight of what the controversy is really about. In terms of the DL controversy, you can afford to completely ignore that whole study. If anyone is not convinced yet, let me note just one more point (out of very many) against the DL hypothesis: The authors claim that their radar-tracked bees were unquestionably regular recruits, that showed they used DL information after attending a dance in the hive. And the way those bees used that information is indeed expected to lead to a very low efficiency. However, what started for DL supporters as an anomaly of very low efficiency, had long ago blossomed into a far more dangerous anomaly. A careful analysis of the study published in Science by Gould (1975) sufficed to show (see my publication of 1978 in Journal of theoretical biology), that the efficiency of presumed users of DL information was not simply very low. It was even lower (in terms of the average number of dances performed per successful recruit) than the efficiency of users of odor alone all along. A DL whose use is less efficient than use of odor alone all along, (which insects in general have, and mus! t have had since long before honeybees evolved),could never evolve in the first place. Staunch DL supporters simply do not read what DL opponents have managed to publish(in spite of very tough opposition), carefully enough, if they bother to read it at all. Sincerely, Ruth Rosin ("Prickly pear") Sincerely, Ruth Rosin ("Prickly pear") _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:56:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: the golden ratio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received a question from someone who read The Da Vinci Code. I am one of the few who have not yet read it. My reading friend says the book contends that the golden ratio - 1.618 - is, among other naturally occuring things, the ration between male and female bees in the hive. I don't recall any established ratio. In fact, the ration varies with season and conditions. Yet I could not respond authoritatively to my friend. Any thoughts on this claim? Larry Krengel Marengo, IL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:55:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: the golden ratio In-Reply-To: <007b01c56ac1$1ec449e0$ab5b70d1@Tom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Larry > that the golden ratio - 1.618 - is, among other naturally occuring things, > the ration between male and female bees in the hive. Your Friend has it wrong, the ratio applies in honey bees to the numbers of drone parents... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/fibonacci.html lays out the calculations and shows it graphically. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Fall Back M/c, Build 5.02 (stable) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:04:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: the golden ratio In-Reply-To: <007b01c56ac1$1ec449e0$ab5b70d1@Tom> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-E462772 At 01:56 PM 6/6/2005, you wrote: >I received a question from someone who read The Da Vinci Code. I am one of >the few who have not yet read it. My reading friend says the book contends >that the golden ratio - 1.618 - is, among other naturally occuring things, >the ration between male and female bees in the hive. The book is incorrect. The ratio of male and female bees is hardly constant, and the only colonies I've seen with that high a drone count either have a drone laying queen or laying worker. In either case the hive is pretty much doomed if left alone and a 1.6 ratio is far from healthy. However the number of ancestors a given generation of male and female bees has forms a fibonacci sequence. The ratio of two successive numbers in a fibonacci sequence approaches the golden number. See http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibnat.html#bees -Tim -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 6/4/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:58:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: the golden ratio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>>>>>>>>>>My reading friend says the book contends > that the golden ratio - 1.618 - is, among other naturally occuring things, > the ration between male and female bees in the hive.<<<<<<<<<<<<< Take a look at any hive and then ask that again. This is pure bologna as is much of the book. (Fun to read though) My friend Dave Shugarts has written a book on the subject of those errors. As far as I know, there's 10% drones in a hive in summer and none in the winter. Dickm :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:27:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Hayes, Jerry" Subject: Pollination by broodless honey bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I am having a discussion with a grower concerning whether or not broodless honey bees will forage for pollen. In my search I have only found a few references to the presence of "larva" acting as the cue for active pollen collection. The grower is thinking that he can buy packages and they will provide the pollination he needs and that he will not have to pay for full colonies. Many minds make quick work. Thanks Jerry Hayes =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 G. W. Hayes, Jr. Assistant Chief Bureau of Plant and Apiary Inspection Apiary Inspection Section Division of Plant Industry P O Bx 147100 Gainesville FL 32614-7100 (352) 372-3505 ext 128 (352) 334-0715 FAX =20 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:37:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Barrett Subject: When to preorder queens.... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; reply-type=response; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'm going to be wanting to order a nuc for next spring...I'm in central Arkansas. I'm wanting to be pretty picky about what I get.... With all this talk of queen shortages I'm beginning to worry about when I should go ahead and place a preorder. How early is too early? I know preferences change from beekeeper to beekeeper, but what's a good rule of thumb? I'm thinking about ordering from either Ohio or Pennsylvania...if that's pertinent. :) Thanks in advance. PS....anyone else hurting for rain like we are? It's been unseasonably dry for this time of the year in this part of the country. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:14:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Pollination by broodless honey bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by mpalmer@TOGETHER.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=624D7BDD) (92 lines) ------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:59:07 -0400 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Pollination by broodless honey bees > I am having a discussion with a grower concerning whether or not >broodless honey bees will forage for pollen. >Jerry Hayes I think they will gather pollen in a limited way. Newly installed packages can be seen gathering pollen, the day they are installed. But, don't expect them to be as effective pollinators as a strong colony. Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:54:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Pollination by broodless honey bees In-Reply-To: <08A9A34A42FD0E4E87A1BE23C10A0ABA0A62C861@tlhexchange1.doacs.state.fl.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Jun 6, 2005, at 12:27 PM, Hayes, Jerry wrote: > > a discussion with a grower whether or not broodless honey bees forage > for pollen. > I have only presence of "larva" acting as the cue for active > pollen collection. > grower is thinking buy packages and they will provide the pollination > he needs and > & he will not have to pay for full colonies. > G. W. Hayes, Jr. These questions are not initially pertinent here. Does he have drawn comb to put the package on? Does he plan to feed the nuc heavily from the day they arrive as they initially draw comb, the queen begins to lay, and at this time come under the pressure of supplying pollen to feed the now developing brood? Yes, bees will collect (and store) pollen whenever it is available, if first the weather permits, and second, there is comb to store it in. A nuc is usually starting from scratch and must do first things first. The presence of brood obviously stimulates the bees to gather pollen. The nuc should have under ideal conditions, if possible, some drawn comb, as much food as the nuc will take, and hopefully early, a frame (or two) of bees with brood and food, including pollen, from another colony ..... this lessens the nuc's weakness as the old bees die off before the new bees begin to hatch. Failure to do these things creates a real struggle for most nucs. Colonies which experience queen loss almost always build up pollen as there is no brood coming along to require its use, and may be a real tip to look for queen loss. Hope this helps a bit! Robert Barnett Birmingham, AL > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:17:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Pollination by broodless honey bees In-Reply-To: <08A9A34A42FD0E4E87A1BE23C10A0ABA0A62C861@tlhexchange1.doac s.state.fl.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Will broodless colonies forage for pollen? Not from my observations. I train my crews to watch for colonies that are NOT collecting pollen. Almost certain that inspection will show that there is no laying queen. There may or may not be a queen, but if she's present, she's not laying. Granted, I'm sure there's a grace period before bees stop going for pollen -- and anecdotal evidence says that's after there are no larvae left in the colony. Similary, the temperature of the brood nest drops off when a queen stops laying. This is from hard data. If all three stages of brood are present, the colony will thermoregulate. When the eggs have all hatched, the temp drops a bit and becomes more variable. No eggs or larvae, temp swings close to ambient. And if there's no brood (and I'm talking during the growing season, not winter), the colony more or less stops thermoregulating. Back to my belief, honey bees invest the minimum amount of energy needed to do anything. Why bring in pollen if there's no use for it? On the other hand, broodless colonies often harvest considerable nectar (hungry Adult bees will consume it). Eventually, if no queen if provided, the colony will fall apart. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:33:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Pollination by broodless honey bees In-Reply-To: <08A9A34A42FD0E4E87A1BE23C10A0ABA0A62C861@tlhexchange1.doacs.state.fl.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jerry Hayes writes: I am having a discussion with a grower concerning whether or not broodless honey bees will forage for pollen. In my search I have only found a few references to the presence of "larva" acting as the cue for active pollen collection. Reply: Yes, broodless bees willf orage for pollen and do it quite well. In the spring colonies with used up stores of pollen and low on honey must do this. It was researched by the US gov years back and documented extensively, along with temperature triggers, etc. I will dig up the info and email the ref to you. Jerry continiues:The grower is thinking that he can buy packages and they will provide the pollination he needs and that he will not have to pay for full colonies. Reply: He will need a good queen and young workers, but then this is what package honeybees are about! And would be a source of business for package bee makers. Regards, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:09:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Pollination by broodless honey bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Hayes writes: I am having a discussion with a grower concerning whether or not broodless honey bees will forage for pollen. An almond grower/ broker approached me with a similar question. The growers are interested in importing queenless packages for pollination and using a queen pheromone to hold the colony together until end of pollination. Also would the commercial beekeeper be interested in buying what's left so they could recoup part of their cost of the queenless package. I asked a couple beekeepers and they said they might haul what's left off for a fee. If the almond growers want queenless packages the U.S. commercial beekeeper can supply those in January. Will even discount the packages if the growers pick up in Texas or Florida. Bring your own box and we will shake the frames in your box! Bob Overheard in California : "Why the high pollination price for a colony of bees. Beekeeping is easy compared to almond production" Overheard at a honey for sale stand in Missouri: " I would pay double what you are asking for a jar of honey before I would get the hell stung out of me producing the honey" :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::