From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:25:18 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-79.4 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, ADVANCE_FEE_3,AWL,DEAR_SOMETHING,FUZZY_VLIUM,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BFA449067 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SF1MLs014128 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0604B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 152439 Lines: 3417 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 19:20:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How many colonies to a yard? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/04/2006 07:36:42 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@listserv.albany.edu writes: I'm interested to hear how other beekeepers determine the number of colonies to place in one yard. I average 12-20 but am considering boosting some prime yards to 30 or more. Read Dr Bailey's lectures on 'Beekeeping by Numbers'. The worst enemy of a hive of bees (apart from the beekeeper) is another hive of bees. Left to nature (according to Seeley) bees space their colonies about half a mile apart and this correlates with their general maximum foraging range (they will forage a lot further but the great majority of their foraging is close to home.). This roughly correlates with Bailey's optimum of 1 hive per square kilometre. Colonies of bees are in competition. Placed among a plentiful nectar yielding crop, it is to the beekeeper's advantage to space hives widely to reduce competition and thus maximise individual income, but if pollination is the object then it is better to place them close together as the competition forces them to forage further from home, so more of the crop gets polinated well instead of localised patches. . If you are working commercially then you will have to take travelling time and fuel into account and decide to increase the number of hives per site. This may compensate for the reduced crop per hive and increased stress related ailments that occurs when more than a very few hives are kept in one place. Beekeeper's back should also be considered: it may be better to inspect a few hives and then take a break while moving to the next apiary than to do 30 in succession and not be able to walk the next day. If you are constanly moving bees to chase nectar yielding crops then you can probably justify having apiaries as plentifully stocked as you do, but remember that when the crop finishes flowerring the bees might as well be in a desert. Permanent apiaries should hold only a handful of hives unless you are in an exceptionally well favoured area with a constant succession of nectar bearing plants in good supply. In summary: it's a balancing act. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 17:28:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: <4436281F.6090700@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Dave: background level Reply: Can you describe the parameters for qualifying the background level you talk about, as in my mind I would think it would vary depending upon type bees, strength hive, and local. What would the range be high to low? Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http;//groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 07:39:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by ron-eefje@TELE2.SE to the BEE-L = list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously = posted material. Guidelines for BEE-L Submissions 1. Do not include excessive quotes of previous submissions. If you = must quote previous postings, include only what is necessary to make = your point. Submissions that include the entirety of previous posts = will be rejected without comment or notice. ________________________________ From: Ron van Mierlo [mailto:ron-eefje@tele2.se] Sent: Sat 2006.04.08 05:06 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Cc: Fredrik Leyon; Hans-Olof Holm Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online Hi all I would like to respond to the article "The Evidence Supporting the Use = of Honey as Wound Dressing" that now can be found on the Internet, as Mr. Hooper = reported. It is great to see a collection of reported evidence that honey does = work as wound healing dressing and most of us can probably recall many ealier = individual reports claiming as much, but the article in question missed to quote the honey = source(s) for each case. In order to attach any claims to any particular kind of honey, to see = how they do compare in clinical tests and futhermore for a user to know which honey = to select for his or her wound problem it would be necessary to have the honey = sources quoted in future tests as well. The report originating from New Zealand, most people might automatically = apply the Manuka honey as the medium that was possibly applied here, since Manuka = has had a name as honey with good anti-batererial properties, but don't = forget that the West-Australian Jarrah honey has been proven in the past years to = have even 50% stronger anti-bacterial properties than Manuka. With those big differences clearly existing for honey of different = origin, the need to know that origin is very obvious. I used some Jarrah honey taken with me from Australia as wound dressing, = just as my own local Swedish honey and without any adverse effects on me, but = the wounds have always been superficial and clean to start with. There was no = simultaneous parallel treament done with any other medium, so I can't make any = personal claims yet for or against the use of honey. You could wonder what kind of response honey would trigger in people = that have a history of allergic reactions, honey might then not be so harmless = perhaps? Ron van Mierlo Sweden -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 10:14:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: <20060408002805.90698.qmail@web51608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dee > Can you describe the parameters for qualifying the > background level you talk about, It will vary between strains and races of bees, but not a drastic variation. Strength of hive has more to do with distribution of queen pheromone and conventional laying worker behaviour. Hive volume has an effect on anarchy, as the greater the separation between the main core of the nest and the group of workers exhibiting anarchistic behaviour the lower the effect of queen pheromone will be. Locality, I think is a minor issue that would be absorbed by (or related to) the difference in strain that is caused by locality. There is a feature that can skew the data when dealing with anarchic behaviour and worker policing... In some instances a group of 'supersisters' (one patriline) can screen (defend) the anarchistic bees from those doing the egg eating and thus that hive (colony) will have a larger number of worker produced drones reaching maturity. We are glibly talking about this, but we should bear in mind that we are talking about very low levels of these unusual behaviours, compared to normal 'queen laid' eggs. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:15:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: How many colonies to a yard? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Number of colonies in one apiary. The number of colonies which may profitably be kept in one apiary depends entirely on the nectar supply. In the white clover region, it is considered best to have not more than one hundred colonies in an apiary, with apiaries located at least two miles apart. This number can be increased in many localities. In the other general honey regions of the United States, it is usually profitable under favorable local conditions to keep from 200 to possibly 500 colonies in one apiary. There are so many factors to consider in determining this point that no general rules may be laid down. it may be advised that the beekeeper decide each case individually from a study of the honey flora, the experience of other beekeepers and his own experience. Title: Beekeeping Author: Phillips, Everett Franklin, 1878-1951. Publication Info: 1915 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:18:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE0921030C14A4@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You could wonder what kind of response honey would trigger in people that have > a history of allergic reactions, honey might then not be so harmless perhaps? I have never heard of honey being a topical allergen. Truth is, ingested honey is not even close to being an allergen, even with all the pollen and other things floating around in it. Here is a typical study. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8607570&dopt=Abstract I have many people with pollen allergies ask specifically for honey that may have that pollen since they feel it helps desensitize them. Maybe so. The certainly have no problem with the honey but do have problems with airborne pollen. A quick google search would have confirmed what I just noted, so a little prudence is in order when indicting honey for something it is not. As far as wound treatment, I use honey from my bees and it works just fine. In the archives are many posts about the trials that I ran with my Doctor who operated on both of my hands. He was impressed with the use of honey as a topical wound treatment, especially since the results of my healing was impressive (quick and early use of my hands). The key ingredient in honey used for wounds is glucose oxidase which, with enzymes, creates gluconic acid and also hydrogen peroxide when water is present. So the level of glucose oxidase and enzymes is the key to the healing activity level of the specific honey. I know that the Aussies are promoting their honey as superior, but wonder if we are looking at a matter of degree, when enough does the job but "we can make even more" than enough. I flooded my wound site with honey, so even if it may not have been as "active" as other honey, there was more than enough to do the job and do it well. China uses honey for burn treatments which works better than most other treatments. So the source of the honey does not seem to be a major issue. One other thing, which is essential. It must be "raw" honey, never heated since you need the enzymes to do the job. Also, the level of glucose is important, but that is usually achieved by the bees when they "age" the gathered nectar/honey. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 08:48:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: <44377ED8.1020104@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave: but we should bear in mind that we are talking about very low levels of these unusual behaviours, compared to normal 'queen laid' eggs. Reply: Now Dave, if 1 in 10,000 is ratio and with unlimited broodnest management for strong production commercial colonies you run 4-5 deeps like Farrar used to write about and many still run, you are talking bee populations of 70,000 to many more bees..... So just thinking here that means 7-10 possible per colony and in strong yard per hive that means how many good hives? Also, with failing queens and therefore the hole for enlarging the seeing of such phenomania the odds also would go up. After all, how many have seen a queen laying full bore up above frame after frame and then down below in looking at colony then see small patches of worker brood eggs freshly laid? Of couse she is running up and now and not sticking to main frame she is on.....right ???? ;>) Yet beekeepers have been taught for decades to destroy laying workers............yet it is natural for hives and bees for failing queens and say queens failing to return from mating flights.... By the way was that egg stolen they used? Ever hear of that? Respectfully submited, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 19:05:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Laying workers, you don't want them Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The reason beekeepers are "taught" to destroy laying workers is because a hive that has them is already doomed. They are nearly impossible to requeen and all the bees are already old so there is little of value to save. If left alone, they will get robbed out and taken over by wax moths. If found soon enough, a laying worker colony is best dumped out away from the other hives. Even if a laying worker hive could save itself, the queen it would raise would be not worth keeping. Far from being an enhancement, the laying worker phenomenon in honey bees appears to be some sort of vestige. The capensis bees that have this trait are considered to be parasitic pests of healthy normal honey bees. * * * Parthenogenesis Parthenogenesis is a particular form of asexual reproduction in which females produce eggs that develop without fertilization. Parthenogenesis is seen in aphids, daphnia, rotifers, and some other invertebrates, as well as in some plants. Among vertebrates, there are several genera of fish, amphibians. A consequence of asexual reproduction is that offspring are typically genetically identical or nearly identical to their parent. This genetic similarity can be beneficial if the genotype is well suited to a stable environment, but disadvantageous if the environment is changing. For example, if a new predator or pathogen appears and a genotype is particularly defenseless against it, an asexual lineage is more likely to be completely wiped out by it. In contrast, a lineage that reproduces sexually has a higher probability of having at least some members survive due to the genetic recombination that produces a novel genotype in each individual. Similar arguments apply to changes in the physical environment. An example of non-viable parthenogenesis is among common honeybees. The queen bee is the only fertile female in the hive; should she die without the possibility for a viable replacement queen, it is not uncommon for the worker bees to lay eggs. However, ironically, the unfertilized eggs that the worker bees -- females that are unable to mate -- lay, produce only drones (males). Thus, in a relatively short period, all the worker bees die off; the new drones, essentially useless except for mating with the queen, follow shortly thereafter. -- Wikipedia * * * Scut colonies are killed wholesale by capensis. Everyone has their own way of describing the phenomenon. Suffice to say that in practical terms, once capensis behaviour starts to dominate a scut colony, that colony is economically dead. In essence, all you need is a single capensis worker to get into a scut hive - rather like a robber bee. Given a chance (mainly stress, e.g., a power flow, or migration), this capensis worker dons the mantle of a queen. She starts laying as her phenorome output increases. The scuts kill their own queen, and that's the beginning of the end. In cases of severe infestation, you find single cells with a dozen or more eggs. Of course, capensis is famous in the bee world for being the only race in the world in which workers can lay eggs that can be grown into queens. The obvious question: why not ignore the scuts, and run pure capensis colonies? The answer: outside its (small) natural range, capensis is a very poor second to the scut in every possible category, and a particularly poor honey producer. It's doubtful South Africa has any pure scuts left; most colonies are scut-capensis hybrids. It's difficult to know the extent of economic damage occasioned by capensis. The problem really started about a decade ago, when some beekeepers allegedly migrated capensis colonies from around Cape Town to the fabled aloe davyana winter flow near Pretoria. The initial destruction was such that the government paid beekeepers a certain amount for each colony lost. Today, commercial and other beekeepers continue to trap wild swarms, which are extremely abundant in certain parts of the country. The average life of these swarms - under migratory conditions - is estimated at nine months before capensis kills. Usually, up to two thirds of colonies migrated to a new location will fall to capensis. Each hive that succumbs presents the following problems: lost honey production; the bees must be killed; the brood chamber comb must mostly be removed, and the hive moved, restocked and placed on new ground. Barry Sergeant Kyalami South Africa -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:25:11 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The key ingredient in honey used for wounds is glucose oxidase which, with > enzymes, creates gluconic acid and also hydrogen peroxide when water is > present. So the level of glucose oxidase and enzymes is the key to the > healing activity level of the specific honey. I know that the Aussies are > promoting their honey as superior, but wonder if we are looking at a > matter of degree, when enough does the job but "we can make even more" > than enough. There is one other key ingredient and that is the antibacterial activity that is exhibited by some specific honeys e.g. jellybush from Australia and manuka for New Zealand. Talking from the Aussie perspective, Capilano has had clinical trials done with jellybush, which sells as Medihoney, and the data is out there. The results on things like leg ulcers are outstanding. See www.medihoney.com.au It has been registered by our Therapeutic Goods people and this registration does not come lightly. The danger I see in all this is that we make claims that we cannot sustain. As an example, in the early days when the original work on antibacterial activity in honey was being done, and remember that we found only one honey to date, jellybush, as having this unique activity, we had people selling jellybush and they had an article about the antibacterial activity of jellybush beside the honey for sale. There was nothing to show that the jellybush they were selling was active and we know that not all jellybush is active. Not really ethical. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Coming to Apimondia in Australia in 2007? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:44:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: How many colonies to a yard? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's some more stuff on overstocking. These are from old bee books which have been digitized and made available on the internet. The post is rather long, I know, but I found it extremely interesting * There's more at http://bees.library.cornell.edu/ * * * Overstocking. The number that can be profitably kept in one locality is limited by the amount of pasturage. Of late years quite a number of bee-keepers have established one or more out-apiaries, for the sake of keeping more bees than the homes pasturage would support. Just how many bees can be supported in a single locality has probably never been ascertained, and it is just as probable that it never will. One field may support five times as many as another, and the same field may support five times ass many this years as last. Most bee-keepers , however, think it not advisable to keep more than 75 or 100 in one apiary., whilst a few think their locations so good that 200 or more can be profitably kept together. If 100 colonies will do well in each apiary, the probability is that 75 will do better; and while there is unoccupied territory all about him he would better keep on the safe side and have so few in each place as to have no fear of overstocking. His own convenience would have much to do in deciding. For instance, if he has, in all, 300 colonies, and thinks that 100 can find enough to do in a place, but can get through the work of only 75 in day, then he will keep the 300 in 4 apiaries of 75 each, rather than 3 apiaries of 100 each. For it will make him less travel to have in each apiary just what he will do in a day's work. If he can do 50 in a day, then he may just as well have 100 in two apiaries as in one, for in either case he must make two trips to get through with them. The locality should be carefully studied, and only that number of colonies be used which on an average, one year with another, will give the largest results in honey, with a minimum of labor and capital. If 75 hives during an average season would furnish an average of 150 pounds to the hive, then, obviously, the number might be increased to 100 or even 150. If, on the other hand, the average is, say, only 50 lbs. Of extracted honey, and there are only 50 colonies in the apiary, then, clearly, 50 would be all there could be kept with profit in that spot; and it might be questioned whether or not 35 might not be just as profitable … But in some locations, notably in California, Colorado, Cuba, and in some portions of Florida, one can have as many as 300 or 400 colonies, and in some rare instances as many as 500 colonies in one apiary. E. W. Alexander, of Delanson, N. Y. has some 700 colonies in one bee-yard; but he has immense acreages of buckwheat and goldenrod. The celebrated Sespe apiary, in Southern California, owned by J. F. McIntyre, has, in one spot, some 600 hives of bees; but the green mountains on either side, the fertile valley, and the great abundance of honey flora, make such a number possible. From: The ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture A. I. Root & E. I. Root 1908 * * * OVERSTOCKING A DISTRICT WITH BEES. I come now to a point of the very first importance to all interested in the cultivation of bees. If the opinions which the great majority of American bee-keepers entertain, are correct, then the keeping of bees must, in our country, be always an insignificant pursuit. I confess that I find it difficult to repress a smile, when the owner of a few hives, in a district where as many hundreds might be made to prosper, gravely imputes his ill success, to the fact that too many bees are kept in his vicinity! The truth is, that as bees are frequently managed, they are of but little value, even though in "a land flowing with milk and honey." If in the Spring, a colony of bees is prosperous and healthy, it will gather abundant stores, even if hundreds equally strong, are in its immediate vicinity, while if it is feeble, it will be of little or no value, even if there is not another swarm within a dozen miles of it. Success in bee-keeping requires that a man should be in some things, a very close imitator of Napoleon, who always aimed to have an overwhelming force, at the right time and in the right place; so the bee-keeper must be sure that his colonies are numerous, just at the time when their numbers can be turned to the best account. If the bees cannot get up their numbers until the honey-harvest is well nigh gone, numbers will then be of as little service as many of the famous armies against which "the soldier of Europe" contended ; which, after the 'fortunes of the campaign were decided, only served to swell the triumphant spoils of the mighty conqueror. A bee-keeper with feeble stocks in the Spring, which become strong only when there is nothing to get, is like a farmer who contrives to hire no hands to reap his harvests, but suffers the crops to rot upon the ground, and then at great expense, hires a number of stalwart laborers to idle about his premises and eat him out of house and home ! I do not believe that there is a single square mile in this whole country, which is overstocked with bees, unless it is one so unsuitable for bee-keeping as to make it unprofitable to attempt it at all. Such an assertion will doubtless, appear to many, very unguarded ; and yet it is made advisedly, and I am happy to be able to confirm it, by reference to the experience of the largest cultivators in Europe. The following letter from Mr. Wagner, will I trust, do more than I can possibly do in any other way, to show our bee-keepers how mistaken they are in their opinion as to the danger of overstocking their districts, and also what large results might be obtained from a more extensive cultivation of bees. March 16, 1853. DEAR SIR : In reply to your enquiry respecting the overstocking of a district, I would say that the present opinion of the correspondents of the Bienenzeitung, appears to be that it cannot readily be done. Dzierzon says, in practice at least, "it never is done;" and Dr. Radlkofer, of Munich, the President of the second Apiarian Convention, declares that his apprehensions on that score were dissipated by observations which he had opportunity and occasion to make, when on his way home from the Convention. I have numerous accounts of Apiaries in pretty close proximity, containing from 200 to 300 colonies each. Ehrenfels had a thousand hives, at three separate establishments indeed, but so close to each other that he could visit them all in half an hour's ride; and he says that in 1801, the average net yield of his Apiaries was $2 per hive. In Russia and Hungary, Apiaries numbering from 2000 to 5000 colonies are said not to be infrequent; and we know that as many as 4000 hives are oftentimes congregated, in Autumn, at one point on the heaths of Germany. Hence I think we need not fear that any district of this country, so distinguished for abundant natural vegetation and diversified culture, will very speedily be overstocked, particularly after the importance of having stocks populous early in the Spring, comes to be duly appreciated. A week or ten days of favorable weather, at that season, when pasturage abounds, will enable a strong colony to lay up an ample supply for the year, if its labor be properly directed. Mr. Kaden, one of the ablest contributors to the Bienen-zeitung, in the number for December, 1852, noticing the communication from Dr. Radlkofer, says : "I also concur in the opinion that a district of country cannot be overstocked with bees; and that, however numerous the colonies, all can procure sufficient sustenance if the surrounding country contain honey-yielding plants and vegetables, in the usual degree. Where utter barrenness prevails, the case is different, of course, as well as rare." The Fifteenth Annual Meeting of German Agriculturists was held in the City of Hanover, on the 10th of September, 1852, and in compliance with the suggestions of the Apiarian Convention, a distinct section devoted to bee-culture was instituted. The programme propounded sixteen questions for discussion, the fourth of which was as follows:— "Can a district of country embracing meadows, arable land, orchards, and woodlands or forests, be so overstocked with bees, that these may no longer find adequate sustenance and yield a remunerating surplus of their products?" This question was debated with considerable animation. The Rev. Mr. Kleine, (nine-tenths of the correspondents of the Bee-Journal are clergyman,) President of the section, gave it as his opinion that "it was hardly conceivable that such a country could be overstocked with bees." Counsellor Herwig, and the Rev. Mr. Wilkens, on the contrary, maintained that "it might be overstocked." In reply, Assessor Heyne remarked that "whatever might be supposed possible as an extreme case, it was certain that as regards the kingdom of Hanover, it could not be even remotely apprehended that too many Apiaries would ever be established; and that consequently the greatest possible multiplication of colonies might safely be aimed at and encouraged. At the same time, he advised a proper distribution of Apiaries. I might easily furnish you with more matter of this sort, and designate a considerable number of Apiaries in various parts of Germany, containing from 25 to 500 colonies. But the question would still recur, do not these Apiaries occupy comparatively isolated positions? and at this distance from the scene, it would obviously be impossible to give a perfectly satisfactory answer. According to the statistical tables of the kingdom of Hannover, the annual production of bees-wax in the province of Lunenburg, is 300,000 lbs., about one half of which is exported; and assuming one pound of wax as the yield of each hive, we must suppose that 300,000 hives are annually "brimstoned" in the province; and assuming further, in view of casualties, local influences, unfavorable seasons, &c., that only one-half of the whole number of colonies maintained, produce a swarm each, every year, it would require a total of at least 600,000 colonies, (141, to each square mile,) to secure the result given in the tables. The number of square miles stocked even to this extent, in this country, are, I suspect, " few and far between." The Shakers at Lebanon, have about 600 colonies; but I doubt whether a dozen Apiaries equally large can be found in the Union. It is very evident, that this country is far from being overstocked ; nor it is likely that it ever will be. A German writer alleges that "the bees of Lunenburg, pay all the taxes assessed on their proprietors, and leave a surplus besides." The importance attached to bee-culture accounts in part for the remarkable fact that the people of a district so barren that it has been called " the Arabia of Germany," are almost without exception in easy and comfortable circumstances. Could not still more favorable results be obtained in this country under a rational system of management, availing itself of the aid of science, art and skill? But, I am digressing. My design was to furnish you with an account of bee-culture as it exists in an entire district of country, in the hands of the common peasantry. This I thought would be more satisfactory, and convey a better idea of what may be done on a large scale, than any number of instances which might be selected of splendid success in isolated cases. Very truly yours, SAMUEL WAGNER From Langstroth on the hive and the honey-bee: a bee keeper's manual. Hopkins, Bridgman, Northampton : 1853. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:18:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: How many colonies to a yard? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When harvesting honey from large yards 80+ colonies robbing is nearly impossible to prevent. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 298 6261 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:15:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Laying workers, you don't want them In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter, Here....seeing the situation first hand means a lot. It is not what you seem to think. Also the queens are not that bad either, though they do superceed usually within the year. But nowadays, with coumaphos and other treatments so do many queens. But the main thing is the bees handled the situation, and no hive contamination is involved. Also it is written in archives as being known in all races. Cannot go natural beekeeping by the way without knowing what natural beekeeping is.......and involves. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 08:19:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online In-Reply-To: <4437B81F.4040900@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed In message <4437B81F.4040900@suscom-maine.net>, Bill Truesdell writes >I have never heard of honey being a topical allergen. Truth is, >ingested honey is not even close to being an allergen, even with all >the pollen and other things floating around in it. Here is a typical >study. Just shows how little studies sometimes turn up. All depends what they are looking for and how they look. My younger son is currently on his second full course of desensitisation therapy for his bee sting allergy. At the start of his first course his level of allergy was described as 'quite extraordinary' by the consultant in charge. This course, after three years, reduced his levels to near normal but in 6 months it was back, albeit at a far reduced level, this time deemed a normal level for acceptance onto a desensitisation program, and this is now proceeding. However, he is also quite definitely allergic to honey, which is a shame as he is a quite talented handler of the product and turns out a good finished pack. If any honey lands on his skin he gets a red rash where it was, and is itchy for a couple of days. If he accidentally swallows any, even a minute amount, it irritates his throat for a long time, apparently part way between extreme itching and having bitten on a chilli. The allergy consultant is hopeful this will go with the treatment of the sting allergy, but there was no evidence of that the first time round. We doubt of course that it is the honey itself that is the issue here but some bee originating allergen still remaining in the honey. He is not alone. One of our Polish girls doing the honey extracting last season came in after the first couple of days and reported a rash on her hands and forearms, and at a few remote spots on her body as well. We tried anti allergy gloves, giving her personal wash facilities etc, and nothing worked. Then one day she got a neck rash after she had removed a crawling bee with a little honey on her gloves. This was truly raw honey (I just hate the term raw relating to honey), straight from the extracting plant containing all the little treasures it does when in that condition, and there is no doubt it was causing her the problems. So we ran a very crude test. On her upper arm we used five stick on dressings. On one we placed some dry cappings and stuck it down. The second we put some smeared pollen plugs. The third just some of the separated honey. The fourth a mascerated bee. The final one nothing. This was in the morning, and she worked all day with these in place, in the heat and humidity of the extracting room. At the end of the day we removed the dressings. No rash with wax. Minor rash with pollen. Big raised skin rash with honey, extending beyond the dressing area itself. No rash with the bee. No rash with the control. Pretty rule of thumb stuff that does not prove a lot except that we should not expose this girl any further to the honey, and sent her into the frame repair room instead, and put another one on the extracting. In my sons case, and seemingly so with this girl, there also seems to be a hightened sensitivity to a mix (raw condition honey) than to clean filtered honey (not talking ultra filtered here, just gravity filtered through a moderate mesh size to remove visible detritus and provide a clean product.). Make of it what you will. Science it is not. -- Murray McGregor -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:38:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: <20060408154810.41869.qmail@web51612.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dee You try to infer that there are 7-10 possibly anarchistic workers in a hive, but the logic you are using is false... You consider an 'unlimited brood nest' in '4-5 deeps' and a hive population of 70,000 workers. Such an arrangement does not allow enough separation between the nest itself and the area where the anarchy is to take place, you may consider such an arrangement useful for your style of management, but the 'chimney' shaped centre where brood is raised would contain a high pheromone load. This wide pheromone distribution and lack of distance would actually suppress anarchistic behaviour to lower levels than would be encountered in the natural situation of a more compact brood nest with honey storage arranged above. > Also, with failing queens and therefore the hole for > enlarging the seeing of such phenomania the odds also would > go up. Again with the hive arrangement that you describe, the lowering of queen pheromone as a queen ages, would have less effect than with a more compact nest. Your tall centrally placed brood combs would emit a considerably larger amount of brood pheromone and pheromones that had be absorbed by the wax because of the large surface area to volume ratio, so the pheromone repression on laying workers and/or anarchistic workers does not reduce as much with your 'unlimited system', so in turn the anarchistic behaviour actually shows up less. You also try to imply that anarchy and thelytoky are useful fall back strategies, there are 'fall back' strategies, but they are 'last ditch' extreme strategies and there are other safety nets that come into play far more readily than anarchy and thelytoky... One very simple thing that has much more bearing on survivability of the species is the laying of more than one queen in a hive (for an extended period of weeks, months or years) this multiple queen phenomena exists at a level around a hundred times more prevalent than anarchistic workers. > By the way was that egg stolen they used? Ever hear of > that? Yes I've heard of that and I have heard of a small number of cases that appear to be only explainable by egg moving. As egg moving is possible I reckon it happens, but what is important is the level of the activity, which is low... I can't put numbers on it, but it must be low or it would be noticed more by beekeepers and we would thus know more about it. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 06:53:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray McGregor wrote: > In my sons case, and seemingly so with this girl, there also seems to be > a hightened sensitivity to a mix (raw condition honey) than to clean > filtered honey (not talking ultra filtered here, just gravity filtered > through a moderate mesh size to remove visible detritus and provide a > clean product.). > > Make of it what you will. Science it is not. Murray, thanks for the information. I wonder if this is a result of sensitization by exposure to an allergen, which does happen in beekeeping, mostly to those who are not handling bees but are exposed to small levels of allergens in the beekeeper's clothes over a long period of time. They can start out not allergic and proceed to very allergic. In any case, I appreciate your observations. It is hard to find anything on topical honey allergy, so it seems to be rare with the general public. Maybe not so with beekeeper's families and co-workers. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:33:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online In-Reply-To: <002501c65b6c$123ed0e0$3491453d@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit queenbee wrote: >> (I wrote) The key ingredient in honey used for wounds is glucose oxidase which, >> with enzymes, creates gluconic acid and also hydrogen peroxide when >> water is present. So the level of glucose oxidase and enzymes is the >> key to the healing activity level of the specific honey. I know that >> the Aussies are promoting their honey as superior, but wonder if we >> are looking at a matter of degree, when enough does the job but "we >> can make even more" than enough. > There is one other key ingredient and that is the antibacterial activity > that is exhibited by some specific honeys e.g. jellybush from Australia > and manuka for New Zealand. If you look at the articles cited in the link http://www.medihoney.com.au/ you will see that the anti-bacterial activity is from the effects of glucose oxidase (and enzymes) and that is, though not noted, the ingredient that varies in different honeys (in the article by a factor of 100 to 1 in some cases). It is well known that glucose oxidase concentrations vary between honeys as does enzyme content (probably mostly because of processing and age). All honey is a supersaturated sugar solution. Supersaturated sugar solutions have been used in medicine for quite a long time for its anti-bacterial properties. Honey, with glucose oxidase, has an added benefit in that it creates hydrogen peroxide at a honey/water interface (in the hive, that protects honey from spoiling). When honey comes in contact with an open wound, peroxide is created which does several things. First, it kills any bacteria. Second, it destroys dead flesh and cleans the wound so the wound heals from the bottom up and no scab is formed. Third, the acid environment at the honey/wound interface also kills bacteria (also a result of glucose oxidase and its breakdown by enzymes). In addition, but not related to glucose oxidase, the supersaturated sugar solution inhibits bacteria from entering the wound from outside. Just about all honey that start from a predominantly glucose nectar will have a head start in the eventual glucose oxidase content. Since there are a lot of nectars that are mostly sucrose, the bees and their enzymes have to do the breakdown so the concentrations will be less. Also, if they process the honey quickly, the concentration will be less. It is all in the starting nectar and the time the enzymes have to act. From there, the beekeeper and their methods of processing effect the honey's properties. If there is other information out there that says these honeys have some other anti-bacterial ingredient, I am interested, but so far have not seen anything other than they have a high glucose oxidase content. That also seems to be the main selling point for these honeys. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:34:54 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online In-Reply-To: <4438E7B5.2030307@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed In message <4438E7B5.2030307@suscom-maine.net>, Bill Truesdell writes >Maybe not so with beekeeper's families and co-workers. Hi Bill, The subject gets muddier, and having had three members of my family through allergy treatment, and two more dangerously allergic and opting NOT to be done, it is one with which our household has a fair degree of familiarity. Right, with my son I accept the conventional scenario. Bee hairs, dried venom etc etc off my clothing getting into the home and being inhaled by the family members. Thus my son has his problems. My wife started out non allergic and after few years of washing my bee suits etc she was the first to go down in a heap when stung. (Her life was possibly saved by my oldest son who instinctively did everything right and called for the doctors, despite being only 6 at the time, but that is another story.) With Kasia the Polish girls it is not the case. She showed allergy symptoms right from the off, having had no previous exposure to bees or honey prior to rolling up here looking for work. But is it the honey, or is it some component, that may or may not be removeable by filtration. I don't know, and am not going to go to the vast expense of finding out as we have work for her anyway that takes the risk away. But she is trully getting sick now of the sight of nail guns, frames and wire. -- Murray McGregor -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:50:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Zach_Huang?= Subject: Re: Winter Loss Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to know what is the general loss this past winter, compared to the winter of 2004 (average of 50% nationally). It appears that this past winter is worse...I lost about 50% and another one here lost 100%. Thanks, Zachary Huang http://www.beetography.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:06:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill and All > If there is other information out there that says these honeys have some > other anti-bacterial ingredient, I am interested, but so far have not > seen anything other than they have a high glucose oxidase content. Some of the anti-bacterial honeys have what is termed 'non-peroxide antibacterial activity', distinguished by adding the enzyme catalase experimentally to remove the peroxides. Glucose oxidase generates peroxide. Although early work suggested that these compounds, of floral origin, would be phenolics such as trimethoxybenzoic acid (1.), more recently it has been suggested that other compounds are responsible (2.). IBRA publish a reprint from Bee World that reviews the topic. http://www.ibra.org.uk/shop/ then search for 'Molan' all the best Gavin. PS Ref 1: Identification of some antibacterial constituents of New Zealand manuka honey. Russell-KM; Molan-PC; Wilkins-AL; Holland-PT Journal-of-Agricultural-and-Food-Chemistry; 38 (1) 10-13, 21 ref. Some components responsible for the exceptionally high antibacterial activity of manuka honey were isolated by testing fractions of the honey for activity against Staphylococcus aureus. An ethanol-ether extract of the honey was separated by preparative-layer chromatography and the fractions thus obtained were assessed for antibacterial activity. One fairly homogeneous fraction was identified as methyl 3,5-dimethoxy-4-hydroxybenzoate (methyl syringate). Combined GC-MS indicated the presence of this compound in some of the other antibacterial fractions together with methyl 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzoate and 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzoic acid. Authentic specimens of 3,5-dimethoxy-4-hydroxybenzoic acid ( syringic acid) and 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzoic acid and their methyl esters were tested against S. aureus. The acids and, to a lesser extent, methyl syringate were found to possess significant antibacterial activity. Ref 2: Identification and quantitative levels of antibacterial components of some New Zealand honeys. Weston-RJ; Brocklebank-LK; Yinrong-Lu Food-Chemistry; 70 (2000) 427-435, 32 ref.NU: 0308-8146DT: Journal-Article In order to identify components in honey that are responsible for non-peroxide antibacterial activity (NPABA) of certain honeys, HPLC profiles of phenolic fractions from 19 samples of New Zealand manuka honey with varying levels of NPABA were determined. HPLC profiles of manuka honey were compared with those obtained for heather, clover and beech honeydew honeys. HPLC profiles of phenols from manuka honey demonstrated that phenols are not responsible for NPABA, as honeys with high levels of NPABA had identical profiles to those with low NPABA. Other agents were investigated that may have been responsible for NPABA; antibacterial insect peptides, including lysozyme and royalisin, and leptospermone, a beta-triketone, however they were not detected in manuka honey with NPABA. Levels of phenols in manuka honey were comparable to data published for European honeys. Methyl syringate comprised approx. 70% (w/w) of phenols in the phenol fraction and may be suitable for use as a floral marker for manuka honey. HPLC profiles of manuka, clover, beech honeydew and heather honeys were distinguishable. It is suggested that use of HPLC profiles has potential for differentiating between honey types. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:02:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >You also try to imply that anarchy and thelytoky are useful fall back >strategies, there are 'fall back' strategies, but they are 'last ditch' >extreme strategies Hmm. The use of the word strategy here is extremely tenuous. Strategy implies some sort of intelligence, and while I think there is a form of intelligence operating in the honey bee colony, -- this is not about that. To talk about strategy in evolution is to veer toward "intelligent design" and we aren't going there, are we? In evolution, useless organs or behaviors are generally weeded out automatically. Laying worker colonies usually die, so the trait is not intensified. Colonies that successfully supersede their queens will tend to prevail, as this is a beneficial trait which ensures the survival of the colony (as well as that particular genetic line). As I mentioned in my previous post, there is very important reason why so many of the earth's organisms reproduce sexually. The recombination of genes is essential for these organisms to be able to produce new traits which may enable them to adapt to change in their environment (this includes factors like climate change, competition, and predators). "Laying workers" appears to me to be some sort of phenomenon caused by the fact that workers are raised from the same eggs as queens and have some of the same internal organs, such as ovaries. I doubt seriously that this is "purposeful", any more than there is a "purpose" for nipples on male mammals. The whole thing is just one of those curious things about nature that tend to point toward "unintelligent design" more than anything else. The more you look at nature, the more you realize that not everything is put together in the best way possible, not everything is there for a "good reason", that there are a lot of really dumb mistakes. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:05:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: <4438D617.4030200@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave: Such an arrangement does not allow enough separation between the nest itself and the area where the anarchy is to take place Reply: Then how come I can have an active queen laying whole deep frames up with eggs up above, and see eggs and young larva above in about 6 frames in a 3rd deep, and some in the 4th deep even, and then when checking down below can find just a small patch less then the palm of my hand of fresh eggs layed? Certainly the queen isn't running back and forth between the top and bottom part of the unlimited broodnest? How would you rationalize this behaviour? Especially since it was noted with higher frequency behaviour in our type of bees back in the 1980s and printed in 1991? Don't think I am seeing anything too different. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:47:04 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill wrote > If there is other information out there that says these honeys have some > other anti-bacterial ingredient, I am interested, but so far have not seen > anything other than they have a high glucose oxidase content. That also > seems to be the main selling point for these honeys. Have a look at www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/05-159.pdf It mentions the hydrogen peroxide part but what I am talking about is the "uncharactised chemical substances (from the floral sources)". Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Coming to Apimondia in Australia in 2007? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:30:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Francis_Fedrizzi?= Subject: Drawing Foundation for Honey Supers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have been told that when drawing foundation for my honey super, I should always draw 10 frames the first year, and then use 9 drawn combs thereafter. I have also been told it does not make any difference and I should draw 9 frams the first year. Any thoughts on this? F. Fedrizzi Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:27:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: david flathman Subject: frame cleaning / sterilization. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed what is the best way to clean pierco frames? last year i lost a number of hives to small hive beetles. i pressure washed everything including the frames however, there are ALOT of small hive beetle larvae on the pierco frames. could i make a bath of bleach and water - what concentration???? then rinse them in fresh/clean water prior to installing in the hives. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:58:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Drawing Foundation for Honey Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a perennial question. =20 You should always draw 10 frames the first year, and then use 9 drawn = combs thereafter. It DOES make a difference. When drawing foundation, ALWAYS = use 10 frames. Once drawn you can adjust to 9 or even 8. =20 Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:07:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Winter Loss In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-36C653CD > what is the general loss this past winter, compared to >the winter of 2004 Zach, In 2004, I lost 12% of my colonies. In 2005, with 60% of my colonies checked, I've lost 7%. I've also lost 7% of my 4 frame nucs and 15% of my mating nucs. What is alive seems quite strong for the beginning of April. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/305 - Release Date: 4/8/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:45:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Winter Loss In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Zach Huang wrote: > I would like to know what is the general loss this past winter, compared to the winter of 2004 (average of 50% nationally). Out of 17 hives, I lost one and will loose another if I don't requeen it. Think I will join it with a nuc. Location - Lower Alabama Have you determined the cause of your losses? Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:51:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: <20060409200533.6372.qmail@web51605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Dee Lusby wrote: .....the queen isn't running back and forth between the top and bottom part of the unlimited broodnest? How would you rationalize this behaviour? Mother & daughter queens in the hive? Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:57:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Drawing Foundation for Honey Supers In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE0921030C14AA@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Aaron Morris wrote: > This is a perennial question. > > You should always draw 10 frames the first year, and > then use 9 drawn combs thereafter. It DOES make a difference. I agree with Aaron, however with a cavat. 10 frames the first time until they are drawn out. Once drawn out you can reduce to 9 or 8. In some cases that can be the same year they are drawn. You start with 10 so that the bees won't draw cross comb with the unusual spacing provided by 9 or 8 frame foundation starts. Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:02:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Davidson Subject: Winter Loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Here in Northern Lower Michigan, I went into Winter with three hives and = came out with none. Since I have not ordered packages for this spring, = I will get my house in order and start again next year. In the mean time, I have extra supers and frames, so if anyone is = looking for more equipment, get in touch off list and we can talk. I am near Cadillac, Mi. Coleene -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:05:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: frame cleaning / sterilization. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- david flathman wrote: > what is the best way to clean pierco frames? > could i make a bath of bleach and water - what > concentration???? then rinse them in fresh/clean water prior to > installing in the hives. > Not sure about bleach concentration but, after washing and rinsing, I would advise reapplying a layer of wax on the plastic foundation. You can use melted wax and a brush, but I've thought of floating a layer of melted wax on top of very hot water (above the melting point of wax) and then dipping the frames into the water. Drawing the frames out of the water would deposit a layer of wax on everything that had been submersed. Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:24:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: Winter Loss In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:50 PM 4/9/06 -0400, you wrote: >I would like to know what is the general loss this past winter, compared to >the winter of 2004 (average of 50% nationally). 8 hives made it out of 21 going into winter, or 61% losses and at that, I consider myself lucky. I'm a new beekeeper so my losses can to some extent be attributed ignorance and incompetence though personally, I blame varroa mites. George- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:35:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: <20060409200533.6372.qmail@web51605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed In message <20060409200533.6372.qmail@web51605.mail.yahoo.com>, Dee Lusby writes >Certainly the queen isn't running back and forth >between the top and bottom part of the unlimited broodnest? >How would you rationalize this behaviour? Why not? I see this kind of pattern frequently. Nothing unusual about it. We operate with excluders for management purposes throughout the early summer and in late June go over to unlimited nests to get lots and lots of bees for our key mid August flowering. It is not unusual at all to see brood present in odd places, especially if the hive and/or its surroundings are very warm. It is also common for the bottom box to contain relatively little brood for some parts of this period, almost becoming a nectar dump for the field force, and the main active nest being above it, moving downwards as the upper boxes fill. Seeing only a few patches of brood and eggs in the bottom box of four would be something I would expect at certain times and circumstances, and consider quite normal, especially if I have given the colony an excess of drawn comb head space. You can often also get one side of brood away up the hive, seemingly at random, but of course as the season draws to a close, the night-time temps drop away, and the late crop fills the upper boxes, it all tends to re-rationalise and reconfigures back to normality. Next spring its just the same queen that is there. If the temperature profile in the hive and its surroundings are suitable they can exhibit some seemingly quite odd behaviour as regards broodnest organisation, but if the imperative to keep it all tight and together for temperature control is absent it seems she will lay just about anywhere and will quite happily jump about all over the place. Chaotic nests are not so common as the small patches in the bottom box, and are not apparently linked to anything much more than temperature and heavy nectar flow, and re-organise once conditions stabilise again to the bees normal range. Different bees, different climate. Not sure what conclusions, if any can be drawn that are relevant to Arizona, but was surprised that it was mooted that the queen could not be doing this. With us she does, and very commonly. -- Murray McGregor -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:10:42 -0500 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Winter Loss In-Reply-To: <20060410004548.68574.qmail@web53407.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sarasota/Bradenton Florida (subtropical): 2003: 4 hives Lost 1 -- Beetles (What a nasty mess) 2004: 8 Hives Lost 2 -- Absconding (Wax Moth) 2005: 48 Hives Lost 0 -- But all sold Iowa Now: 500 Hives 90-95% built and ready to install bees in next few weeks In all cases, the problems were compounded by forced movement during infestations, not a good combination. -- Scot Mc Pherson The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:19:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: mark berninghausen Subject: Re: Winter Loss In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Zach, Reports that I have heard, so far, of commercial operations in parts of New York include individual beekeepers with 33%, 60%, 50% and 12%. Since last May, 2005, I went from 732 colonies down to around 300 by December, 2005 to 110 colonies in late March 2006. Only two cases of AFB, so far. No varroa mites seen on drone brood broken between supers. Only a few SHBs seen. My colonies winter in SC. As usual, some chalk brood and one mild case of sac brood. It would be nice if the NYS Dept. of Ag&Mkts would survey all known beekeepers to find out what has been experienced. I understand that at the beginning of last years inspection season it was thought that there were some 60,000 colonies in Ny State. And it turned out to be more like 40,000 colonies. Just over half of which were inspected. It would be interesting to know if there are more, or fewer, or about the same, this year. Mark Zach Huang wrote: I would like to know what is the general loss this past winter, compared to the winter of 2004 (average of 50% nationally). --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:26:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: <20060410005145.28878.qmail@web53414.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mike: Mother & daughter queens in the hive? Reply: Not that I can find and I am normally pretty good at finding queens. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 23:38:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Winter Loss In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20060409200004.03bec000@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having just brought out my hives from their in-door wintering room, the loss count is 4%. This is the count of actual "dead outs". It would be unusual if the loss percentage remains so low, as losses normally continue (weak colonies fail due to varied reasons) throughout the following few weeks. These losses may be due to - Queen failure. Cluster size unable to provide enough heat to generate / maintain the brood area. Too high % of winter bees : Spring bees. Small cluster size and weather conditions. (-7 degrees celsius several nights (07/04/2006) ago with predicted high of 20 degrees tomorrow (10/04/2006)) Possible robbing of colonies in spring holding yard. Other conditions resulting in stresses (eg. low nosema infections) Colonies taking up diluted HFCS and dry Bee Pro. Elms should be in flower in a weeks time. Regards, Peter Darlingford South Central Manitoba Canada -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:03:11 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: [BEE-L] frame cleaning / sterilization. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to see more plastic frames that can take heat, as this is the easiest way to frame cleaning / sterilization. My friend here in Finland had used for 15 years plastic frames made from a material that can take heat more than + 100 C . I tried them myself and he has it right. I melted the wax from his used frames with steam and boiled the frames in lye for 10 minutes. After pressure washing the frames were perfectly clean and looked like new. This kind of plastc is more expensive, but I think worth the price. The frames are now made here and the price is 2 euro / frame ( Langstroth) including the vatt tax ( 22%) Ari Seppälä -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:12:11 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron van Mierlo Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online Comments: cc: "Golden Air (Ron2)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Trevor Weatherhead wrote: > > Have a look at www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/05-159.pdf I skipped through the report from Craig Davis but did not find any reference to Jarrah honey, as I hoped. The report was prepared mid 2002 and the stream of news on Jarrah honey dates from 2004-2005 but still, with the report published late 2005 a mention of Jarrah honey would in my eyes have suited well. I have not checked yet if the RIRDC perhaps published other reports soon thereafter that do in fact mention Jarrah..... Ron van Mierlo -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:13:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Peter said... > The use of the word strategy here is extremely tenuous. I hold my hand up for a poor choice of words :-) Shall we say instead... a method of ultimate survival that can help in extreme cases. I use the word extreme, because it is rare, let us borrow Occam's razor from Chris for a moment and consider a few possibilities... Dee states... > Certainly the queen isn't running back and forth > between the top and bottom part of the unlimited broodnest? Murray says... Why not Occam says that Murray is right in all but about one percent of cases. In that odd one percent of hives, Mike Stoops comment about mother and daughter queen would make sense. But of that one percent, perhaps one in a hundred cases is due to anarchistic bees (something like one chance in 10,000). Now I do not know a figure for the frequency of Thelytoky among anarchistic bees, but for the sake of this explanation let us use the figure one in a hundred again (I reckon that is a reasonable choice, given the frequency of the other behaviours) this would take our chance of thelytoky being the cause to about one in a million. So for every million cases of brood found in a position that might not be contiguous with other brood, we have 999,900 cases where that brood is due to a queen. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:43:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Patrick Subject: Re: Winter Loss In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zach Huang wrote: >I would like to know what is the general loss this past winter, compared to >the winter of 2004 > 2004 - 60% loss 2005 - 0% loss (n=13) Patrick, near Albany, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:45:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Interview with Researcher Who Studies Medicinal Uses of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Apitherapy News Interview with Dr. Noori S. Al-Waili Noori S. Al-Waili, M.D., is a New York-based physician and research scientist who has published more than 160 scientific papers, many dealing with the medicinal properties of honey. He is also a speaker at the 1st International Conference on Medicinal Uses of Honey, August 26-28, 2006, in Malaysia. ApiNews: How did you first get interested in Apitherapy research?... For more of the interview with Dr. Al-Waili, see: www.apitherapynews.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:53:49 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: African bee experiment in Poland. [Was: California breedin g conditions] Comments: cc: jerzy_woyke@sggw.pl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob, Being fluent in Polish, I wrote professor Jerzy Woyke and asked about the research with African bees you had mentioned. I asked for the professor's permission to post his reply on Bee-L (my English translations follow below). By the way, professor Jerzy Woyke's website contains a wealth of information on various honeybee subject (www.sggw.waw.pl/~woyke/WoyPage.htm). >>One of the strangest things I read about africanized bees was in the January 1976 ABJ in Roger Morse column. Quote: " a researcher from Poland carried africanized queens into Poland from Brazil 1960. The queens began to lay eggs in January exactly like the EU colonies. By May the hives were totally Africanized."<< Roger Morse was good friends with Jerzy Woyke. Prof. Woyke: "Yes, I brought in and kept Apis adansonii (now known as Apis scutellata) for 4 or 5 years in Poland. They typically failed to survive the Polish winter. To let them survive the winter, I'd introduce them into Polish honey bee colonies. In the spring the African queens began to lay and Polish bees were replaced with African offspring." >>Then Roger goes on to say: " Most interesting was the fact that the aggresive traits of the africanized bees were lost in the temperate conditions of Poland" Roger does not give reference to the Poland study.<< Prof. Woyke: "It wasn't that the African bees lost their aggresiveness as much as they stung less than in Africa because of the cooler conditions in Poland. In Africa, it's best to work these bees in the early morning and late evening when the temperature is cooler. Just opposite of European honeybee behavior, the African bees stung a lot at noon. In the beginning, after working hive, I would count 1,400 stings in my gloves. As time went by and I got better at handling them, I could work the same hive without a veil, gloves, or even a shirt - just in my pants. The local press in Ghana wrote that a bee magic man had come from Poland. >>Does the list know of the actual study so I could read?<< Prof. Woyke: "Here is a list of some of my work with these bees: J. Woyke 1973. Experiences with Apis mellifera adansonii in Brazil and in Poland. Apiacta 8(3): 115-116 J. Woyke 1968 Pszczoły afrykanskie w Brazylii. [African bees in Brazil.] Pszczelarstwo [Polish: Beekeeping] 19(10): 3?6 J. Woyke 1969 African honey bees in Brazil. Amer. Bee Journ. 109(99): 342?344 J. Woyke H. Woyke: 1987 Jak pracować przy agresywnej pszczole afrykańskiej. [How to work aggresive African honeybees.] Pszczelarstwo [Polish: Beekeeping] 38(5): 22 J. Woyke 1990 Biology and management of African bees Apis mellifera adansonii in Africa. Apiacta 25(4): 97?101 J. Woyke 1991 Czarownik z Polski. (Wywiad) [Magician from Poland. (An interview.)] Pszczelarz Polski [Polish Beekeeper] 2 (9?10): 7?9" Bob, I hope this is helpul. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:06:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Glenn Hile Subject: Re: Winter Loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to know what is the general loss this past winter, compared to > the winter of 2004 (average of 50% nationally). Went into winter 2005 with 6 came out with 2. Surviving 2 were on 3 deeps. Losses attributed to starvation due to unsually warm winter in west central Ohio. Surviving 2 are very strong. 2004 lost 5 out of 6 due to mites. Glenn -- CoreComm Webmail. http://home.core.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:29:01 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Winter Loss Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I would like to know what is the general loss this past winter, compared to the winter of 2004 (average of 50% nationally). I've been very fortunate this winter. I had 3 full size hives and a nuc in my home apiary in fall. They all had young queens I raised myself last year. The nuc had a virgin from October that evidently did not mate and became a drone layer in March... but even this nuc was not good shape (3 frames of bees and little stores used in March). I'd treated all 4 with oxalic acid solution in late November and they had good stores of honey and pollen. All came through the winter very well. One hive was on the weak side in late February with 4 frames covered by bees but is now catching up quickly. The 2005/2006 winter was on the mild side with several opportunities for cleansing flights. As in the winter before, I had placed newspapers on top of the inner covers for insulation. The inner cover holes were closed except for a 1/4" gap with a stick extending to the rim of the inner cover edge for top ventilation. The screened bottom boards were insulated with styrofoam from underneath. The entrace reducers had an opening of about 3/8" by 5" in the middle. The air circulation through the hive must have been sufficient since there was very little mold in the hives. The bees tended to be clustered off one side of the hive. This set-up has worked for me in the past in much colder winters. There is little doubt that bees will survive well if the hives are clean, the colonies in reasonable shape with good [not necessarily young] queens, with good stores and few mites. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:40:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online In-Reply-To: <003701c65c1f$26438aa0$9d93453d@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit queenbee wrote: > Have a look at www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/05-159.pdf > > It mentions the hydrogen peroxide part but what I am talking about is > the "uncharactised chemical substances (from the floral sources)". queenbee wrote: > Have a look at www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/05-159.pdf Thanks for all the links to the various studies. Basically they say that honey can have other anti-bacterial ingredients and some more than others. That is also true with glucose oxidase concentration. It can vary with honey sources (and processing). Of particular interest are the last few paragraphs of the study. Quote To date, the only research on the antibacterial activity of Australian honeys is a small study by Wootton et al. (1978), which found that five of seven different floral sourced honeys did possess antibacterial activity. This activity was heat labile which suggests that the antibacterial activity present was due to hydrogen peroxide. Considering the findings reviewed above there is sufficient evidence to suggest that honey may be the treatment of choice in wounds of all kinds. However, proof of efficiency in randomised scientific trials is lacking. More work in this area is clearly justified. However, few institutions are willing to conduct and finance such trials. The current investigation was undertaken to establish the antimicrobial activity of a large number of Australian honeys from a wide range of floral sources and diverse geographical locations. Unquote In addition, the article noted "In all the medical reports on the antibacterial and healing properties of honey, there has been little information given about the specific type or selection of honey used." And then went on to the findings of additional anti-bacterial agents in the AU and NZ honey. In essence, what I understand from reading all the articles is that the key mechanism in the use of honey as an anti-bacterial healing agent for topical wounds is still that which has been noted in the literature for years: supersaturated sugar solution, glucose oxidase which yields hydrogen peroxide and gluconic acid, and a physical barrier. That is in line with the fact that all sorts of different honeys from around the world (including Maine honey from my colonies) have been used effectively for wounds (cuts, abrasions, ulcers, burns and other open-skin problems). It also tracks with the comment in the study about the tested AU and NZ honeys, "This activity was heat labile which suggests that the antibacterial activity present was due to hydrogen peroxide." This is not to take anything away from the additional anti-bacterial activity of the AU and NZ honey. But I look at it as an add-on that is nice to have but not necessary compared to glucose oxidase which is essential. For me, the key is more than the anti-bacterial activity at the wound site: type of honey and its additional anti-bacterial agents, acid conditions, hydrogen peroxide, and super-saturated sugar solution. The key is the cleansing properties of hydrogen peroxide that gets rid of everything in the wound area except living flesh. Honey maintains that condition, since glucose oxidase comes in contact with moisture from the wound and converts at the honey wound interface to acid and hydrogen peroxide. In essence, you have continuous action by the honey over a long period of time to maintain a sterile, clean wound. So the wound heals from the bottom up, not the top down. I witnessed just that when I treated my hands with my doctor's permission (the second time he was a true believer and was discussing it with his peers). You end up with little scar tissue and almost no sign that you had a serious operation. Plus, you gain full use of your hands quickly. I documented the progress of the healing with pictures (the beginning ones are gross) which my Doctor has used to show honeys efficacy. For me, there is no doubt of in the use of honey as a wound dressing almost in spite of the source, but the key is glucose oxidase (which means a high glucose nectar source or plenty of time for the bees to convert a sucrose nectar source and proper processing). Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:15:03 -0400 Reply-To: gallagherb@adelphia.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Gallagher Subject: Winter Loss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Central Virginia, USA For my two sites the losses were: 1) Outyard, 6 in Fall, one lost (no bees in March, cause unknown). Treatments were Apistan, feeding, and screened bottom boards. 2) Home, 34 in fall, no loss by today. Treatments were screened bottom boards and feeding. Notes (home): One hive had laying workers, one had a drone layer, and one had a queen but no brood. But all survived. One was a 2 stacked 9 1/8" NUC, eight frames and a feeder. All others were 2 deeps. In the Fall there were K-wing bees crawling on the ground. I did not do any mite counts. About 12 of these hives came from bees removed from buildings in the area in 2005. This was the 3rd winter with no (chemical) treatments at the home apiary. This spring the bees seem to be 2 weeks ahead of normal in brood buildup. Have collected 3 swarms already, not from my bees. The past winter was milder than normal here. Brian Gallagher Earlysville, VA Latitude 38N USDA Zone 6b -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:40:55 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Honey as Wound Dressing & can Honey make you feel Cold?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>the article in question missed to quote the honey source(s) for each case. A friend of mine had open heart surgery over a year ago to replace a valve. Without medical supervision, he only used his own local Long Island honey on the long wound that run down his chest. He is 74 and the wound healed up very quickly. There is a scar but you have to look closely to see it. I have no reason to think our suburban honey is exceptional but it's nice to see good results. >>people that have a history of allergic reactions, honey might then not be so harmless perhaps? Someone recently mentioned to me knowing someone allergic to honey. This was the first time I've ever heard of such a case. [It's not confirmed so perhaps it's an allergy to something else.] I have noticed myself that if I eat my own honey on a regular basis in the winter - say, a teaspoonful per day - I seem to experience cold temperatures more, especially in my fingers. Eating sweets does not seem to have the same effect. I wonder if the simple sugars from honey raise my blood sugar causing this reaction? I don't have diabetes but perhaps I should check my blood sugar level... Has anyone had the same reaction? On the other hand, taking a spoonful of honey in the morning keeps me working in my backyard or hiking on a trail all day without feeling tired. :) Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:59:45 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Laying workers, you don't want them Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Also the queens are not that bad either, though they do superceed usually within the year. Perhaps I missed something... For a worker to lay an egg that would result in a laying queen, the worker itself would have to go on mating flights and get mated. Is this what happens? Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:16:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: African bee experiment in Poland. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Waldemar, Thanks for the information. I thought about contacting Dr. Woyke myself but knew language would be a problem. I have been busy with spring bee work so little time for BEE-L. I did countless hours of AHB research for the article in May ABJ. I have got a couple articles yet to do but hopefully those will not be as time consuming. Dr. Woyke said: > In the beginning, after working hive, I would count 1,400 stings in my gloves. As time went by and I got better at handling them, Many have pointed out the beekeeper can learn to choose times to work AHB (sunshine and honey flow on) and AHB is workable BUT they are always unpredictable. We have been moving hives into apple pollination over the last couple nights. These hives are boiling with bees. Some fresh from almonds and some which have been fed pollen patties and syrup in Missouri. Saturday night the girls were testy for a temperature in the 50's. Took some smoke to get the girls calmed down. When bees are upset I always wonder what beekeeping might be like 10 years or 20 years from now. Working AHB as Dr. Woyke talks about and working & moving bees like commercial beekeepers do is like comparing apples to oranges. We can not pick and choose our times. The call comes and we move bees. One reason I am not looking forward to AHB problems. Once in a holding yard in California I warned the beekeepers feeding the 1350 hives about two "hot" hives. They laughed. the next time I called on their cell phone they reported they had found the two "hot" hives. Smoke only upset these two hives further. Much talk on BEE-L has been about the good traits of AHB. Sadly it only takes a couple "hot" hives to ruin your day or like Dr. Woyke said get 1400 stings in your gloves. Beekeeping will change once AHb has colonized the southern U.S. Both for hobby and commercial beekeepers. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:01:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Low-cost honey drying equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks to those who replied to me on and off-list on this subject. There were a number of options - but not all were low-cost (or at least not for beekeepers in S India!). Essential, given the high-humidity climate, seems to be a dehumidifier - perhaps the most expensive item. If that is available, then exposing a thin film of honey to the dry air is a relatively easy thing to achieve, perhaps by using rotating discs in the top of a tank, or by continuously dipping and raising boards in the honey, or by using a simple pump to circulate the honey over a board that drains back into the tank. Fans - readily available -will speed the process. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:44:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: AL BOEHM Subject: gold line bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have experience with the Purvis Bros gold line bees after = supercedure? I have had supercedure queens that were nasty with the old = midnight queen from York on occasion and want to avoid this problem. I = am about to order a dozen or so queens to replace about half of the = winter losses .Losses usually one ar two hives but this winter I lost 29 = out of 45 with no obvious cause.Time to split off my survivors. and = start some new colonies with a new line of queens. AL BOEHM Columbus nc -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:37:40 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I skipped through the report from Craig Davis but did not find any > reference to Jarrah honey, as I hoped. The report was prepared mid 2002 > and the stream of news on Jarrah honey dates from 2004-2005 but still, > with the report published late 2005 a mention of Jarrah honey > would in my eyes have suited well. Jarrah is the "new kid on the block". It certainly has very high peroxide activity. The report would not have mentioned jarrah as the author did not do the work on it as I know the story. The work on jarrah was by another author as I recall. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Coming to Apimondia in Australia in 2007? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:19:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe bossom Subject: bee keeping in Scotland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Years ago as I am told, there were significant legal constraints on = keeping bees in Scotland. Can someone tell me what rules apply these = days, can anyone with land set up an apiary? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:40:54 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Far North queens In-Reply-To: <001601c65ce1$f3d57f10$38702a50@office> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am an Alaskan hobbiest. There is a wide spread belief that bees do not winter up here. The fact is few queens raised in the warm southern part of the US are able to produce colonies that will survive. Queens raised in areas with long cold winters are preselected for good wintering conditions. For several years I purchased queens from Dave Eyre, Beeworks, in Ontario, Canada. Due to unrealistic, politically motivated import limitations, Dave can no longer afford to sell queens to the US. I am looking for a source of queens produced in an area with long and cold winters. Any suggestions, urls, or email addresses would be appreciated. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 02:08:11 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: bee keeping in Scotland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe There are no legal contraints to keeping bees in Scotland, although if you need to treat your bees for pests and diseases there is legislation to follow. But if you simply wish to start keeping some bees, just do it! There is no need, for example, to register colonies. As far as small hobby beekeepers are concerned, no-one will bother you. If you sell honey, in Scotland as elsewhere in Europe and probably beyond, you stray into the realms of food production and then have significant regulations to worry about. For hobby beekeepers, the national organisation is worth joining: http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/ There are links from that site for local associations. all the best Gavin. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:41:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Far North queens In-Reply-To: <443AFB16.3090702@gci.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom Elliott wrote:I am looking for a source of queens produced in an area with long and cold winters. Any suggestions, urls, or email addresses would be appreciated. The Russian line is supposedly set up to survive well in climates like yours. Give a couple of queens a try. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:58:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Far North queens In-Reply-To: <20060411014126.94343.qmail@web53402.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Mike, >The Russian line is supposedly set up to survive well in climates like yours. Give a couple of queens a try. > I am looking for a source for queens raised in such a climate, Russian or not. The queens I got from Beeworks were excellent and derived from Italian stock. Do you have a source in mind that fits my requirements? Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:02:31 -0500 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Far North queens In-Reply-To: <443AFB16.3090702@gci.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>I am looking for a source of queens produced in an area with long and cold winters. I am sure you know that Keith Malone has been selling packages and queens bred from his over wintered stocks. -- Scot Mc Pherson The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:21:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: bee keeping in Scotland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scottish Beekeepers' Association - Welcome! -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:28:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Far North queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Tom Elliott wrote:I am looking for a source of queens produced in an area with > long and cold winters. . The Russians haven't worked for me here in Ontario at all. Carniolan have consistantly faired much better for me. Kent Eastern Ontario Canada -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:49:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Zach_Huang?= Subject: Re: Winter Loss Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks to all for the quick replies...so it looks like winter of 2005 was not as bad as winter of 2004. I lost about 50% (or more, N-33), mostly to small clusters (enough food). When I checked 1/21/06 they were mostly alive...I attribute my loss to varroa, nosema (some with heavy dysentery), perhaps also tracheal mites (not checked). I would like to know how beekeepers with more bees fared (I know one Michigan beekeeper with 300 colonies lost 100%)...Apparently climatic conditions do make a difference (i.e. harder to winter here with a longer winter, although it has been quite warm this past one). Zachary Huang -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:06:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Laying workers, you don't want them In-Reply-To: <20060410.120032.21047.689081@webmail58.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Waldemar: For a worker to lay an egg that would result in a laying queen, the worker itself would have to go on mating flights and get mated. Reply: Intercaste workers in a way, but even in grafting if one were to experiment, say grafting day after day, larva in suceeding age, where would queen grafting stop and worker grafting start? Could this be similar to 3 days egg or so and then larva until capping over, with supercedure queen failing to return normally due to bird eating accident or other.....................certainly something to ponder as to what actually is going on........for the bees to get into high gear while they still have a chance. How do you rationalize it? Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:07:48 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Lord Subject: NC winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I went in to the winter with 250 hives. The looked good iin Seopt having 'fatened up' on cotton. Only 4 exceeded thresholds with sticky boards in Sept (overall very low mite count) and they got Sucrocide. I lost ~75. I attribute loses to fluctuting temps, cold early winter, mild Jan. and Feb., then cold March. The variability in wintering is a killer these days. I have been feeding heavily and will make splits next week to get back up to 250. Anyway you look at it there is a lot of work involved. On the plus side, I get a chance to cull combs and really clean equipment indead-outs. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:59:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Laying workers, you don't want them In-Reply-To: <20060410.120032.21047.689081@webmail58.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Waldemar > For a worker to lay an egg that would result in a laying queen, the worker itself would have to go on mating flights and get mated. Is this what happens? No, The diploid eggs laid by thelytokious bees are formed from haploid eggs that have a modified division process in the early stages of cell division... Below is the process as described in Capensis Introduction, Production of parthenogenetic female eggs - thelytoky Verma and Ruttner (1983) showed that the secondary oocyte fuses with a polar body in the content of the unfertilized oocyte during meiosis. This automictic mechanism was suggested by Tucker (1958) and allows no combination of loci in the offspring, unless crossing over mediates the exchange of linkage groups. Moritz and Haberl (1994) could not detect crossing over in the formation of these diploid offspring, hence all offspring of a single capensis worker are genetically identical, mother and daughter therefore form a genetic clone. Ruttner(1988) claimed that only a single recessive allele, th, at one locus determines workers to perform thelytokous parthenogenesis. The thelytokous parthenogenesis has been explained as an adaptation to the harsh, wet, windy conditions where the queen is much more on a risk getting lost during her mating flights (Tribe 1983, Moritz and Kauhausen 1984, Moritz 1986). But paradoxically, the highest frequencies of matings occurs in months in which the winds are most intense (Allsopp and Hepburn 1997). Referring to the high mating frequency detected in A. m. capensis (Estoup et al. 1994, Moritz et al. 1996, Kryger 1997) the mating risk of the queens seems not to be higher than in European races. Taken from... Regulation of reproductive dominance hierarchiesin Apis mellifera capensis workers Dissertation zur Erlangung des akademischen Gradesdoctor rerum naturalium (Dr. rer.nat.) vorgelegt der Mathematisch-Naturwissenschaftlich-Technischen Fakultät (mathematisch-naturwissenschaftlicher Bereich) der Martin-Luther-Universität Halle-Wittenbergvon Frau Ute Simongeb. am: 11.08.1967 in Emden Gutachter1. Prof. R.F.A. Moritz2. Prof. N. Koeniger3. Prof. R.M. Crewe Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:36:19 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Davidson Subject: Re: Far North queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, You can try David Eyre in Canada. He does ship to the U.S. He is in Ontario and usually sells out early. His web site is: www.beeworks.com, or you can Google The Bee Works if you are as cautious of links you are not familiar with as I am. Coleene > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great > rates starting at 1¢/min. > > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:05:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Winter Loss In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1936B7A > When I checked 1/21/06 they were mostly alive...I attribute my loss to >varroa, nosema (some with heavy dysentery), perhaps also tracheal mites (not >checked). Zach, you may want to check them for Tracheal, if the dead bees aren't too rotten to cut. You say they were alive in Mid-January, but died later with heavy staining. I find that to be a classic example of Tracheal damage. > I would like to know how beekeepers with more bees fared ... Of the 500 I've checked, 33 didn't make it. 225 left to check, but I don't predict any changes to the % losses...unless I find a bit of starvation. I did find a few Varroa deaths. Dug some dead in the process of hatching bees out of their cells with my pocket knife...shrunken abdomens and no wings. But that was just a few. Found a few Tracheal problems...colony boiling out in mid-winter, in a pile on the snow. Had TJ cut them. He thought I seeded the sample, but no...40/50 bees cut were heavily infested with much scarring of the Trachea. Rest of yard...all quiet in winter, and alive now. >Apparently climatic >conditions do make a difference (i.e. harder to winter here with a longer >winter, although it has been quite warm this past one). Well of course. But we had a warm winter, and losses shouldn't have been so high. It seems to me that beekeepers with acclimatized stocks fare much better than those who buy their bees in from far away. Trying not to point any fingers here. Did you northern beekeepers who lost your bees use northern stock, or southern stock? While southern bees are great for southern beekeeping, the aren't resistant to Tracheal, which is still a big problem in the north. Everyone seems convinced that Varroa is the main culprit in these large colony die offs, but I wonder how much is actually Tracheal mite destruction. Obviously we have to keep our Varroa populations in check, but don't forget Tracheal. Requeen with tolerant stock. Once your bees can tolerate Tracheal mites, and winter well, then you can work on controlling Varroa. Until then, it's a crap shoot, and who knows what is killing the bees, or if they can winter in the north, anyway. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/305 - Release Date: 4/8/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:14:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: NC winter losses In-Reply-To: <041120060507.25352.443B39A3000CB8AF0000630821587667550B9D0 1040999@att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1936B7A > I attribute loses to fluctuting temps, cold early winter, mild Jan. and > Feb., then cold March. I don't know...We had fluctuating temperatures. Below zero to above 50 to below zero...all winter long. >The variability in wintering is a killer these days. >On the plus side, I get a chance to cull combs and really clean equipment >indead-outs. Once I began selecting for tracheal resistance, that variability mostly disappeared. I wish you could see my bees right now. Large clusters, hives packed with bees. Pollen has just started coming in. Surely a much longer winter than in NC! I think the big plus is in the colonies that survived. Winter IS the great equalizer! The junk died off. Raise some queens from the best survivors, and see what that does. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/305 - Release Date: 4/8/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:34:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Laying workers, you don't want them Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave Cushman wrote: >No, The diploid eggs laid by thelytokious bees are formed from haploid >eggs that have a modified division process in the early stages >of cell division... To put this into plain English, some insects can produce females without mating. This occurs in many different insects such as aphids, but very rarely in honey bees. It is a trait of the African bee called "capensis". Normal honey bee queens mate with from 10 to 50 drones, depending on the species. This means that the workers of a hive are sisters, but with many different fathers. Evidently, nature has evolved this method to prevent a colony from having only one father, which after all, could be the queen's brother! Probably such a mechanism results in a more diverse, stronger colony over all. With capensis bees, a laying worker can produce female eggs which are clones of her. This is not a good thing; it is a bad thing. If you don't beleive me, read this: * Infestation levels of Apis mellifera scutellata swarms by socially parasitic Cape honeybee workers (Apis mellifera capensis) Stephan HÄRTEL, et al (Apidologie 37 2006) * EXCERPTS: The "dwindling colony syndrome" caused by socially parasitic workers of the Cape honeybee, Apis mellifera capensis Escholtz, is a recent example of the spread of a pest due to movement of colonies ... socially parasitic workers have caused considerable harm to A. m. scutellata based apiculture. Commercial beekeepers with large numbers of colonies have been severely affected and have in some cases reported the *complete loss* of all managed colonies. This has occurred repeatedly in every season for the last decade. Recent genetic studies have shown that a single clonal lineage, derived from one individual worker by uninterrupted generations of thelytokous parthenogenesis caused the *mass extinctions* of managed A. m. scutellata colonies. This clonal lineage covers vast regions in northern South Africa. Apicultural management will need to include enhanced diagnostic efforts, the change of apiary layouts and hive handling to particularly reduce the horizontal transmission of the socially parasitic Cape honeybee lineage. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:33:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Timothy Eisele Subject: Re: Far North queens In-Reply-To: <000901c65d5c$281e5a10$cdbc0740@valuedb5f86e04> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Coleene Davidson wrote: > Hi Tom, > You can try David Eyre in Canada. He does ship to the U.S. He is in > Ontario and usually sells out early. His web site is: > www.beeworks.com, or you can Google The Bee Works if you are as cautious of > links you are not familiar with as I am. But, if you look at the link named "border closure" on that page, he explains that he does *not* ship to the U.S. any longer. In fact, wasn't the fact that he no longer ships to the U.S. the thing that started this thread of discussion in the first place? Unless the web page is obsolete, and David Eyre has begun selling queens in the U.S. again without updating the page, I think we have to find some other sources. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:38:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Laying workers, you don't want them In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter You wrote: > some insects can produce females without > mating. This occurs in many different insects such as aphids, but very > rarely in honey bees. It is a trait of the African bee called "capensis". While Thelytoky is exhibited strongly in Capensis, it does occur in all races of Apis Mellifera, but in all except Capensis, it is very rare. At Capensis levels it is destructive, but at levels of one in a million it is unlikely to do much harm and on the rare occasion that the gene pool is impoverished, it can maintain genes that might be otherwise lost. It would be wrong to consider it an important issue, but studying the causes and effects gives us a little more insight into the feedback that helps to regulate natural selection. It exists and is stable at it's current levels, hopefully whatever keeps it that way will counteract any selection that may be done by humans that may try to increase it. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:18:01 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Jarrah is the "new kid on the block". It certainly has very high peroxide activity. Just curious - how does jarrah honey taste? Is it popular for eating? Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:26:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Milt_Lathan?= Subject: Any drones in the Northwest? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has anyone near Seattle seen any drones yet? I am hoping to raise a couple of queens nearby (Carnation). Thanks. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:38:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Davidson Subject: Re: Far North queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Sorry if my info was in error. It has been a while since I saw David. Coleene -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:17:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Far North queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to our U.S. neighbours: About that discussion about our boarder being closed to queens. There some good breeders here who have attempted to send to the USA but paperwork and the other unusual complications on your side have forced some to rethink things. Below are two addresses. Honeypro is Geof Wilson, highly regarded in Genetics and one who is probably going to try exporting again to you folks. Mr. Doug McRory is our Ontario Gov't chief apiarist and I suggest you contact him by email and inquire about importing. He worked with Geoff to get the paperwork done at the last attempt,/ this was information that was given to us by Doug at the recent OBA meeting last week. _http://honeypro.ca/who-we-are/_ (http://honeypro.ca/who-we-are/) _doug.mcrory@omafra.gov.on.ca_ (mailto:doug.mcrory@omafra.gov.on.ca) Walter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:33:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Katie Wharton Subject: what's the buzz on brood production? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi all, I'm a grad student in zoology, and I'm studying how honeybee colonies regulate brood production in response to various environmental factors. I was wondering if any of you might have some stories for me to help me guide some of my thoughts for my projects. In particular, I'd like to know if any of you have witnessed times when the queen has laid eggs (drone or worker eggs) but the colony failed to rear some or all of these eggs to the adult stage. Under what conditions did this happen? Was it during a time when there was a nectar dearth? When colonies had precious little resources? Right after a swarming event? Why do you think that this happened? Please send your replies to me -- my email address is wharton2@msu.edu Thanks!! :) I'm loving working with honeybees and am just starting to develop more of an intuition for the ways that the colony "works." I'm really looking forward to hearing from all of you hobbiest/experienced beekeepers!! Sincerely, Katie Wharton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:28:24 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maurice Organization: prive Subject: Re: bee keeping in Scotland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go to: http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/sbav2/main.php Maurice from Belgium ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Dean" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] bee keeping in Scotland > Scottish > Beekeepers' Association - Welcome! > > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- > > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:06:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Afterswarms & Prime Swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, I'm looking for bonafide reference material pertaining to the weight of a prime swarm vs. an afterswarm, for use in an article. Thankyou in advance, Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' Feral Bee Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:39:13 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: what's the buzz on brood production? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In particular, I'd like to know if any of you have witnessed times when > the queen has laid eggs (drone or worker eggs) but the colony failed to > rear some or all of these eggs to the adult stage. Under what conditions > did this happen? Was it during a time when there was a nectar dearth? > When colonies had precious little resources? Right after a swarming > event? Why do you think that this happened? Thought I would reply via Bee-L as I would like to see what others have experienced and what they have observed. In Australia, I have seen beehives go out to a honey flow on Caley's ironbark (Eucalyptus caleyi) and within a week cannibalise all the brood both unsealed and sealed. This was because Caley's ironbark is renown for having no pollen and plenty of honey and it was a dry year with no understory plants flowering. The bees must sense that they have no protein source so cannibalise the brood to conserve their own body protein. This is in our autumn (fall for the northerners) come winter. The yield per colony can be good, up to 100kg per colony. If going to Caley's ironbark, most now feed with protein patties and the hives will maintain about 3 to 4 frames with brood on them. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Coming to Apimondia in Australia in 2007? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:49:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: bee keeping in Scotland In-Reply-To: <001701c65d04$6c1b0400$04000005@mshome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-72AE2FC8 > >For hobby beekeepers, the national organisation is worth joining: >http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/ >Gavin. Gavin, I looked over the site you posted. In sba shop, I notice a pamphlet for sale titled "Swarm Trigger Discovered". I was wondering if you had read it, and what Mr. McArthur had to say about swarming. Thanks Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/305 - Release Date: 4/8/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 07:24:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Drawing Foundation for Honey Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike wrote: > I agree with Aaron, however with a cavat. 10 frames > the first time until they are drawn out. Once drawn > out you can reduce to 9 or 8. I also agree with Mike and Aaron. I use 10 frames then reduce to 8 in extracting supers, but for cut comb I start with 9 frames so they are drawn out thicker to fully fill a cut comb box. I have never had a problem with burr or cross comb in these cut comb supers. So I assume you could start with 9 frames and that would work most of the time. If I used 9 frame extracting supers instead of 8, I would give it a try. Marc Studebaker -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:22:14 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Review of Honey as Wound Dressing Now Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just curious - how does jarrah honey taste? Is it popular for eating? For me it has a "nutty" flavour. As a person from the east of Australia and being brought up on light "sweet" honey, it is not what I have been used to. It is in no way objectionable, just different to me. Now if a westerner was telling you what jarrah was like he would say great. It certainly is popular for eating. With the new found peroxide activity, it now commands a premium price. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Coming to Apimondia in Australia in 2007? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:40:56 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Pinyola problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In an article from Spain it talks about a pinyola problem and = compensation for it. Does anyone know what this pinyola is? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Coming to Apimondia in Australia in 2007? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 04:43:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: New Zealand Honey Firm Moves to Protect Use of 'Manuka' in EU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Moves Made To Safeguard 'Manuka' Name Scoop Independent News, 4/13/2006 An application has been made to secure the 'manuka' name after concerns were raised by manuka honey exporters that the word 'manuka' was legally unprotected in Europe and could fall into the wrong hands According to Sue Irwin Ironside, partner at intellectual property lawyers Baldwins, while manuka as a word would be exceptionally difficult to protect in New Zealand as it is in general use, that is not the case in other countries... For the full story, see: www.apitherapynews.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:13:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe bossom Subject: in reply to Trevor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable to Trevor in Anzac land: The pinola is a small nut that is used to make = a variety of foods. In English they are called pine nuts and they are = used in pastries, pesto sauce (have you ever eaten Pesto! and in certain = dessert disches. very expensive to buy.. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:24:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: bee keeping in Scotland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike I hadn't read 'Swarm Trigger Discovered' so I emailed the author, Eric McArthur, and this was his reply: hope that helps Gavin. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:54:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Pinyola problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Trevor I gave you the short version on another forum, after using my beginner's Spanish. For those interested, the term describes the appearance of seeds in clementines and other seedless citrus due to pollination coming from hybrid mandarin oranges planted by some growers. The latter produce viable pollen, the others don't. However, as it happens, you can read many reports of the controversy in a form of English by Googling for 'pinyola' then hitting the [Translate this page] link. Beekeepers are caught in the middle of this mess. The authorities in Valencia in Spain have been forcing beekeepers, through annual decrees, to move their stocks 5 km away from citrus plantations and so away from this lucrative honey crop. Late payments of agreed compensation have caused some beekeepers to disregard these decrees, damaging the citrus crops, and there have been demonstrations and protests of various kinds, including hunger strikes. Honeybees may have been falsely targeted: many other insects visit citrus flowers, and wind pollination is possible too. all the best Gavin. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:07:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Pinyola problem In-Reply-To: <004901c66005$ad5a0a20$04000005@mshome.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed In message <004901c66005$ad5a0a20$04000005@mshome.net>, Gavin Ramsay writes >Beekeepers are caught in the middle of this mess. The authorities in >Valencia in Spain have been forcing beekeepers, through annual decrees, to >move their stocks 5 km away from citrus plantations and so away from this >lucrative honey crop. This is just about it in a nutshell. Its the problem of seeds appearing in seedless citrus crops which reduces or even collapses their market value. However..........if all are interested enough I can get this right from the horse's mouth if you give me a few days. I am off to Valencia on Monday 17th for 3 days on a business trip visiting big bee breeders, some professional bee farms, and foundation makers. My main host is the biggest honey trader in the area and he knows ALL the bee people, so I can get a definitive answer. -- Murray McGregor -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---