From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:25:15 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.3 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997484904A for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEr0Bp013917 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0604C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 50141 Lines: 1077 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 09:11:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Swarm triggers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >her exertions as her laying rate peaks. I reckon she suffers a fall off in >the production of the queen substances, which fall below a 'yet to be >established critical' thus initiating queen cell building. Here is an example of a little bit of science mixed with a lot of imagination. To attribute swarming behavior to the lessening of "queen substance" without having a way of measuring such a substance, is pure speculation. Besides, a five frame nuc will swarm once it is packed with bees. Swarming has more to do with congestion than anything else. By getting the bees up in the supers, or otherwise taking excess bees out of the brood nest, congestion is reduced and the urge to swarm is suppressed. C.C. Miller noted that hives with first year queens are less apt to swarm, even when crowded, so he advocated requeening in spring to prevent his comb honey hives from swarming. My own theory, since we are into speculation mode, is that all hives want to swarm but they wait for the right conditions. Swarming is an expression of the urge to multiply colonies. The right conditions would be plenty of pollen and nectar coming in, and an "apparent" surplus of bees, given the size of the nest. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:11:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Can Small Hive Beetles Survive a Northern Winter? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I see maps which show small hive beetles being found in all of the North Eastern US and moving westward. past Wisconsin What is the experience of beekeepers in NE United States ? and does anyone know if the larvae can survive in the soil during a northern winter? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:15:27 -0500 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Can Small Hive Beetles Survive a Northern Winter? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> does anyone know if the larvae can survive in the soil during a northern winter? Not in the soil no. SHB larvae prefer hot sandy soil for optimum conditions. However, nothing says the adults can't hang out with the bees in the winter and brood in the spring. -- Scot Mc Pherson The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:45:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Can Small Hive Beetles Survive a Northern Winter? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-F794498 > What is the experience of beekeepers in NE United States ? I have a bee yard infested with SHB in NW Vermont. They came in on nucs from South Carolina two or three years ago...sold to a neighboring beekeeper. Last spring I found a small clutch of SHB larvae in a pollen patty. By mid-summer, there were 50 or more SHB in some of the mating nucs. This spring (March), while filling mating nuc feeders, I noticed a SHB crawling up and out of the feeder. SHB will definitely overwinter in the north, but not sure about the larvae...guess it doesn't really matter if the larvae overwinter in the ground, as the adults are able to survive in the hives. They made it back to my honey house last summer, and I wound up burning a pallet of dark combs that had been slimed. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/313 - Release Date: 4/15/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:55:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Can Small Hive Beetles Survive a Northern Winter? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Michael & All, Please don't kill the messenger over what I am about to say. Only passing on information from the largest commercial beekeeper in a southern state. He said placing checkmite under the black plastic does little to stop SHb in winter as many winter in the cluster. Placing a single (or half strip) in the cluster does. They will all be dead on the bottom board in spring. I do not have SHB in my area yet. I have been through all my hives doing spring work and had over 200 deeps full of honey & pollen sitting outside for several weeks to use in spring splits. I finished going through most last week and not one small hive beetle. We are going through hives returned from almonds next week to make splits so will look again but so far no small hive beetle.All have been gone through once. Using something to kill SHB in the winter cluster in the north does make sense. I only wish the chemical of choice was not choumaphos. Our bee labs have shown little interest (so far) in the beekeepers asking for research on a milder chemical to kill SHB in the cluster rather than coumaphos. In Florida SHb can winter outside the hive and the bee labs (and beekeepers) report many do. In the north many believe as I do SHb will for the most part move into the bee hive cluster to winter. Adults which will hold off egg laying till spring and are susceptible to a pesticide. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 11:24:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: Can Small Hive Beetles Survive a Northern Winter? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:45:51 -0400, Michael Palmer wrote: >I have a bee yard infested with SHB in NW Vermont. They came in on nucs >from South Carolina two or three years ago...sold to a neighboring >beekeeper. So do we assume that you picked up SHB from a neighbors bee yard without any selling or trading of equipment just drift? Have you had any success with the various beetle traps or ground treatments? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:17:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Can Small Hive Beetles Survive a Northern Winter? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-580A18B7 > So do we assume that you picked up SHB from a neighbors bee yard >without any selling or trading of equipment just drift? Correct. I haven't bought any bees or queens for years. I also haven't pollinated in several years, and the bees stay in their yards all year. The beekeeper near me bought his nucs from a known infested source...told me he wondered what all those little black beetles were. I found beetles the first year after he bought the nucs. First year there were only a few. Second year there were dozens in the mini-nucs. We'll see what this year brings on, especially with the warm winter we just had. So far, I haven't seen any damage in the hives, except one comb of pollen in a dead nuc had some larvae in it, so I haven't bothered with traps or treatments. It's the honey house and comb storage that worries me. Since I have so many over wintered nucs this spring, I should be able to have all my brood combs occupied by bees. This summer it will be the honey house that I have to watch. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/313 - Release Date: 4/15/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:01:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Can Small Hive Beetles Survive a Northern Winter? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has been reported that SHB will fly 15 Miles. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 298 6261 Brian Fredericksen wrote: > > So do we assume that you picked up SHB from a neighbors bee yard > without any selling or trading of equipment just drift? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 20:15:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Green line Russians In-Reply-To: <44427860.8010706@russianbreeder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Charlie, What can you tell me about the green line of Russians? Got five of them. Know that three have been accepted. Had to reintroduce a fourth when the bees started balling her when I opened the hive. The fifth I may have lost. Can't find her or sign that she's in there a week after introduction. I know that it may take a couple of weeks for them to start laying, but I had them in four frame nucs and it's kinda hard for a queen to hide in that small a group. Hoping I still have the fifth, but don't think she will show. Mike Stoops in Excel, Alabama PS Will be getting more queens from Baton Rouge at the end of this week to replace those that were superceded. I used a screened cage last year to introduce them. I was very inept at that too, by the way. Was very lucky that almost all were accepted for the way I used the 4" X 6" cages I made and used. Most of the queens were released within a day I think. The cages didn't imbed properly in the comb and I think most of the queens were out in very short order. I have used both the three hole wooden queen introduction cages and the plastic queen introduction cages. Will be working with Bob Danka. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:08:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Green line Russians In-Reply-To: <20060417031511.85393.qmail@web53414.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very nice 2005 release yellow green I still have some of those queens left good build up and good mite resistance. The bee lab has fallen out of favor the push in cage due to SHB. They now use a three trip method find and remove the queen, install the queen the next day candy hole covered up, and day 4 cut all queen cells and hand release queen. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 298 6261 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:40:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan&jan Subject: Re: Can Small Hive Beetles Survive a Northern Winter? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; reply-type=original; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The current feeling around here is probably not BUT we don't know about in the hive. Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC zone 6a -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:38:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Judi Hindman Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 15 Apr 2006 to 16 Apr 2006 (#2006-101) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a 'going into third year' beekeeper. We have one hive which is = loaded with bees this spring. Fearing a swarm, we looked into our hive = last week-end and found many, many bees but no eggs, nor capped brood. = There appeared to be some larger capped brood on the bottom of some of = the frames which we are interpreting as drone larvae, as they did not = look like the classic queen cell. We have never been able to find the = queen, but she has obvious laid eggs, as there are many more bees now = when we went into the winter. Can anyone explain this or are we seeing = developing queen cells and not drone cells? Judi Hindman Weston, Ma. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:04:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Green line Russians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Mike Stoops and fellow BEE-L followers: I read what was written and thought to throw my two cents worth in since I too got involved with the Russian lines. I've had purple, yellow, and white and going for Oblue this year . An old hand in beekeeping that studied in Russia -Mike Kutsyy- and is now fireing up on his own here in Ontario gave me some input for queen introduction. Using the three hole wooden cage, I was told to remove the screen and replace it with a piece of foundation with holes punched in it. If the crowd in the box likes her they will chew the waw away and release here. If they reject her, for whatever reason, say just for example there happens to be another queen around that one may have overlooked, and is the chosen one then the holes in the wax will be sealed up and for that reason I've always put a hole into the candy so she can breath until I happen to inspect and she can be used elswhere without loosing her. Walter Ontario -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:12:46 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 15 Apr 2006 to 16 Apr 2006 (#2006-101) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>We have one hive ... with ... some larger capped brood on the bottom ... interpreting as drone larvae. Can anyone explain this...? One possibility is that the bees lost the laying queen in the late fall and raised a supercedure virgin which failed to mate due to cool temps. The virgin spent the winter in the hive and recently became a drone layer. [Another possibility is laying workers if the pattern is gun shot.] The numerous bees are due to either a strong hive last fall or drifting if this hive is at the end of a row of hives. Bees tend to drift a lot giving the [often false] impression of a super queen in a strong hive. You check the brood pattern and often find it inferior to other less populous hives in the middle of a row. Best solution is to find the presumed drone laying queen, dispatch her (she can't mate anymore), and re-queen. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:50:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Russians & introduction. In-Reply-To: <322.24aa3ee.3175329f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Walter Zimmermann wrote:Use 3 hole wooden cage. Remove the screen and replace it with a piece of foundation with holes punched in it. If queen is rejected then the holes in the wax will be sealed up. Put a hole into the candy so she can breath until next inspection. Walter, When you use the queen introduction cage that way, do you also remove the attendents that accompany her? If not, is there a chance that the attendants might chew through the hole themselves? If you take the attendents out, is there a danger that the queen could starve? How long do you wait between introduction of the queen cage and checking for release? Mike in LA --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:45:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Russians & introduction. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike in LA: Thanks for the points you make The attendants get removed. For some reason release using the wax cover is quicker. I give it 24 hours and check for release. They may take a little bit longer but they will seal her up in that time also. Every hive is different. I know beekeepers don't go in for a certain time but last summer it was so hot that I went in and release them myself and they all took. That's my experience with this method and it's one of many I'm sure we all tried. I've never used the larger cages one pushes into the comb. Walter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:24:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Green line Russians Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:08:49 -0500, Charles Harper wrote: >The bee lab has fallen out of favor the push in cage due to SHB. Please explain this. What is the problem that occurs? pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:42:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Rett C. Thorpe" Subject: Feeding framed honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have some frames of honey that are irregular and miss-shaped. I would like to feed the honey to my 3 newly installed hives, but I don't want to place the frames into the hives because I don't want the bees to continue building on and using the frames. I only want them to remove the honey so I can place new foundation in the frames and re-use them. I have been advised to not placed the frames outside the hives for cleaning. What is the best way for me to feed the frames to my bees without placing them into my brood boxes? =20 Thanks in advance for your help =20 R.T. in Utah (with 4 inches of new snow today) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:47:41 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I have some frames of honey that are irregular and miss-shaped. If you put the frames, loosely spaced, in a couple of empty supers on top of the inner cover, the bees will normally take the honey down. Normally - because, if there is a strong flow, the bees may actully continue putting nectar away in these frames! If you are planning to re-build these frames with fresh foundation, you can squash the cells to induce to bees to clean up the honey. >>I have been advised to not placed the frames outside the hives for cleaning. This could send a bunch of bees up into the air zooming in on the goodies and it could lead to massive robbing. However, you can do it in a 'controlled' manner. I've leaned such frames against the fronts of hives AFTER dark. Bees will come out of the entrances and crawl onto the frames to retrieve the honey. One or two frames, in a single layer, at a time works best. The frames are honey-free in the morning. Just make sure night temps are high enough for the bees to venture out. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:01:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >If you put the frames, loosely spaced, in a couple of empty supers on top of the inner cover, the bees will normally take the honey down. I would put them in a super *below* the brood, and perhaps scratch the caps on some of it. Bees don't want honey below the brood, near the entrance. I have gotten hundreds of frames cleared out this way. Often they will simply throw the crystallized stuff out. I would NEVER feed honey in the open. Robbing, once started, is a very hard habit to rid the bees of, and it leads to the spread of disease. I know people who do this, but I think it is UNWISE. Better to waste it, than to get robbing started just to salvage a little bit of old honey pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:05:22 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I would put them in a super *below* the brood... This should be more effective - especially in the summer - although it requires some lifting of the brood boxes. At this time of year (early spring), 'top supering' works well for me, too. >>and perhaps scratch the caps on some of it. Scratching definitely induces bees to clean up the honey. >>Often they will simply throw the crystallized stuff out. With 'top supering' in the spring, the added temp (esp. on sunnny days) and humidity from down below help bees reliquify crystalized honey. Spraying the frames lightly with clean water beforehand helps as well. >>I would NEVER feed honey in the open. I would never do this during the day, either. However, have you ever tried leaning one or two frames against the hive entrance AFTER dark? In the summer, a strong colony will have the frames emptied in 2 or 3 hours WITHOUT going airborne. Adjacent colonies don't go airborne in the dark either. By morning all is clean and quiet. No robbing is induced. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:14:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Rett C. Thorpe" wrote: IWhat is the best way for me to feed the frames to my bees without placing them into my brood boxes? Place an empty hive body on the hive above the inner cover. Cover the inside hole so that only space for a bee or two to get through at one time. Then place the frames in that empty body and put the outer cover on. Bees should rob the frames out within a day or two, temperatures permitting. Mike in LA where temps were in the low 90's today. --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:52:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Green line Russians In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No bees to keep the SHB from laying eggs. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 298 6261 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:20:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey In-Reply-To: <20060419001458.61068.qmail@web53412.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-31117A2B > Place an empty hive body on the hive above the inner cover. Cover the > inside hole so that only space for a bee or two to get through at one time. I do the same, but watch for the colonies whose queen will go up and lay in those combs above the inner cover. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/313 - Release Date: 4/15/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:37:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I would never do this during the day, either. However, have you ever tried leaning one or two frames against the hive entrance AFTER dark? Weel, now, you got me there. I have never heard that one before (until you mentioned it). Yet, my intuition tells me: either the skunks, or my local raccoon, would have a feast on any loose honey frames left lying about ... pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:18:13 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Yet, my intuition tells me: either the skunks, or my local raccoon, would have a feast on any loose honey frames... We have plenty of raccoons, opposums, and other creatures in this part of suburbia where we are one block away from a wetland preserve. I have not had a problem and have assumed bee-covered frames deter these critters. Skunks, on the other hand, I hear are drawn to hives but we don't have any skunks (that I know of) in this part of NY state. Beekeeping proves to be very local again. :) Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:24:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit About all those skunks and Racoons mentioned I solved that problem with high voltage. I bought from a farm supply a system normally used for livestock that supplies juice to a wire that is strung around a selected area.I have the good fortune of having hydro nearby but there are solar versions available for remote yards. My wife actually heard one creature's yelp as they payed their visit. No more problems. By the way, the tickle one gets is almost like that from a sparkplug wire on a car. Just an interesting observation: I had two 3 inch screws just above the entrance on either edge of the chamber acting as posts for the wire to be wound around with the wire strung from hive to hive. The bees immediately saw this as a foreign object and started to deposit propolis all around the screw where it entered the wood so much so that it ran down the box to the bottom board and the buildup on some was over three sixteenths of an inch. They seemed to gather there and wiggle and waggle alot. Quite the conference they were having. Walter Ontario -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:16:35 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...posts for the wire to be wound. ... The bees ... started to deposit propolis all around the screw. Do you think the bees were reacting to the electric current? I know electricity is used to cause bees to sting a board for venom collection. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:25:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to Waldemar: about my posting re the propolis buildup around the screw posts for the wire mentioned . It really is simple- the boxes are of wood and sit on vinyl bottom boards (which incidentally are totally maintenance free from the standpoint that one simply pressure washes them) so everything is grounded and one feels nothing at the screw point. For the same reason also that birds sitting on hydro wires don't go up in flames. The principle is simple. Anything that conducts, like us touching the wire or an animal because we are grounded , will get a zap. It is a pulsating supply. Walter Ontario -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 05:37:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: New Apitherapy Video in Spanish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII This video explains Apitherapy and the procedures used by Pedro Perez, with testimonies of patients. Go to: www.apitherapynews.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:45:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Bees' independence of opinions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A new article by Tom Seeley shows the highly intelligent decision making processes bees use in the selection of new nest sites. The various sites are evaluated until agreement arises and the swarm can then go to the best site. It is not a matter of a few bees picking the first site they find, but many sites are found and lobbied for. QUOTED FOR REVIEW PURPOSES: A feature of the bees' behavior that promotes their collective intelligence is that the scouts show no tendency toward conformity or slavish imitation of others as they contribute to the decision-making process. We have explained that the heart of this process is a competition among the various coalitions of scouts affiliated with different sites, each one vying to attract uncommitted scouts to her site. The members of each coalition recruit additional members by performing waggle dances that vary in strength in relation to site quality, so that the higher the site quality, the stronger the waggle dance and the greater the stream of newcomers. What is critically important here is that when an uncommitted scout is recruited to a site, she does not blindly support the bee whose dance she followed. Instead, she examines the advertised site herself, and only if she too judges it to be a worthy site does she perform a dance for it and thereby recruit still more bees to the site. Through this independence of opinions, the scouts avoid propagating errors in the assessments of sites. Only at a truly good site will dancers attract more dancers, hence will there be a strong addition to the number of scout bees at the site. The net result is that scout bees avoid mass manias over poor options. The third key to the swarm's success is how the quorum-sensing process aggregates the diverse and independent opinions of the scouts in a way that balances the competing needs of decision-making accuracy and speed. The quorum level is high enough that many bees must independently assess a site's quality before it is chosen. Quick selection of a home based on only one or a few bees' favorable assessments is not possible. The quorum-sensing process filters out extreme or inaccurate opinions and provides a balanced, group-level assessment of the chosen site. This assessment process takes time but ensures that there is enough of an interval for true diversity of opinion to arise and for discovered sites to be independently evaluated before one of them is chosen. Thus, the quorum-sensing method of aggregating the bees' information allows diversity and independence of opinion to thrive, but only long enough to ensure that a decision error is improbable. http://www.americanscientist.org -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:15:49 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bees' independence of opinions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>when an uncommitted scout is recruited to a site, she does not blindly support the bee whose dance she followed. Instead, she examines the advertised site herself, and only if she too judges it to be a worthy site does she perform a dance for it and thereby recruit still more bees to the site. What puzzles me is if and how the different scouts' excitement about their nest locations candidates is kept true to some relative scale. Say, the scout for location A exhibits level 5 excitement (on a scale from 0 to 6) and all the others manifest level 4 excitement or lower. If I am a bee in the swarm trying to establish my own independent opinion, I am inclined to follow the location A scout BUT how do I know scout A is not 'grandstanding' unless I go and visit every single site myself? I'd want to know that my comparison is apples to apples. It would be inefficient for every bee to visit every site after all. I also wonder if the primary scouts are recruited in equal numbers or proportional numbers from the different patrilines. Italian race father offspring scouts may use slightly different site selection criteria than, say, Caucasian race father offspring from the same mother queen. How - if they do - resolve their parameter or scale differences? I'd think this is done along the lines of forage source preference selection. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:46:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bees' independence of opinions In-Reply-To: <20060420.111637.16359.766061@webmail52.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Waldemar > I also wonder if the primary scouts are recruited in equal numbers or > proportional numbers from the different patrilines. Italian race > father offspring scouts may use slightly different site selection > criteria than, say, Caucasian race father offspring from the same > mother queen. The answer here lies in the actual differences in the patrilines, in a free flight mating zone, none of the patrilines would be pure enough to describe as 'Italian race father offspring' or 'Caucasian race father offspring'. At best there would be minor differences that stand out from the background of the 'average' genetics of the geographic area concerned. That is not to say that these minor differences could not influence a scout's choice of future home, but that the range of choices that can be made is not very wide or starkly different. The number of patrilines involved will be directly linked to the mating frequency exhibited by the queen, which in turn will be linked to the race or strain of that queen, but may be adjusted by the degree of mongrelisation (hybridisation) of the individual specimen of queen. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:10:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Eric_Brown?= Subject: Re: principles of cell finishers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit First, thanks to Charlie and Peter for the excellent information you posted in response to my questions and to Wayne for the off-list advice. I really appreciate the veteran advice. Your answers have led to more questions, as things always do with the bees. One question has to do with competition for feed. As the cells are still getting fed and drawn out, would it be better not to have other (or very much other) open brood to compete for the nurse bees' attention? I've seen the competition argument applied to swarm boxes in the case of cell starters. Of course, it makes sense to draw the nurse bees to the area near the cells, and that was a useful reminder of a point I had essentially forgotten. Another question has to do with separating queens from the developing cells. I'm wondering if a swarm tendency is being used to encourage cell development, might that same tendency discourage the established queen from tearing down any cells? Is the likelihood of a swarm really not affected by whether the cells are separated from the queen? I haven't ever had a cell finisher swarm, but I've had lots of other hives swarm with queen cells less developed than the up to 14-day old cells in my cell finishers. Can anyone explain why? Could anyone tell me any more about the commonalities and differences of the swarm tendency and the tendency to care for cells in a normal cell finisher? I'm thinking there are probably ways to encourage bees to care for queen cells without encouraging them to swarm as much as other methods might. What would some key factors be in minimizing the swarm tendency while still encouraging excellent care of cells? Thanks everyone, Eric -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:59:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Selkie Lass Subject: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help! In-Reply-To: <443BB147.90908@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, I just recieved a shipment of Queens in a battery box containing JZ's BZ queen cages and I've never used this type of cage before! I'm experienced at introducing queens with the old-style three hole cages, and I recall that the JZ's cages are an improvement as they will fit neatly between the frames. I did find a few very small pictures of these plastic cages and some caps for covering the sugar plug- however, I didn't find anything detailed about exactly how they work or how best to handle them. I don't want to open the battery cage to examine them as I'll lose the attendants, and I can't install them until tomorrow morning- I have to drive an hour to my bee yard. Can anyone give me some quick hints or recommendations for anything different I'll need on hand to introduce these ladies? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:59:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Selkie and all, We get many shipments of queens in JZ BZ cages. You need to find a place an open the battery box and make sure all queens are alive. You claim for dead queens is with the carrier and not the queen producer. Next you need to wet your finger and rub some water on each cage. I doubt you will lose many bees from the battery box but some will fly. If installing tomorrow I would not worry about a few loss bees. I would worry about driving an hour and opening the box and half your queens are dead. Hand releasing from those cages (in my opinion) is not as easy as other cages but after you learn to *break apart* the cage the job is easier. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:26:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Bees' independence of opinions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:46:01 +0100, Dave Cushman wrote: > none of the patrilines would be pure enough to >describe as 'Italian race father offspring' or 'Caucasian race father >offspring'. At best there would be minor differences The original "races" don't exist in the US nor much of Europe I suppose. I don't believe anyone has ever shown that there is any difference in nest preference between "races" anyway. There is some very interesting info in Seeley's article. I can't really post any more of it, since it's copyrighted. I will try to summarize some of the things he has discovered and send that along soon pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---