From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:25:35 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8DE49069 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SF1MLu014128 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0604D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 50397 Lines: 1065 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:43:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help! In-Reply-To: <20060421175941.42640.qmail@web53212.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Selkie Lass wrote: Greetings, I just recieved a shipment of Queens in a battery box containing JZ's BZ queen cages .... Can anyone give me some quick hints or recommendations for anything different I'll need on hand to introduce these ladies? Make sure the candy excape tube is on top so that any dead attendants won't block the exit of the queen. They fit neatly between two drawn combs of brood. You can open the battery box and not expect to loose very many attendant bees. They stick pretty close to the queens. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:54:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Almer's Apiary Subject: Re: Feeding framed honey In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use the same procedure that several have suggested; above the standard inner cover. For me, the IC opening size seems totally non critical. I place an empty deep super above the inner cover and the "feed frames" above that as several have suggested. I make sure that there are no entrances where robbers can get in from outside the hive, as does everyone else. What I do that is different is; I place the "feed frames", "up-side-down". The bees do not like placing honey in a cell that is "slanted down" thus I have never had them add new honey. They only remove it. Occasionally I will have wet supers with some crystallized honey (cotton, turnip and the like). If the bees are allowed to clean these frames, they will most often leave a white residue in the cells. HOWEVER if the frames are "up-side-down" ("top bar down") while the bees are cleaning they ejected the residue and you get cleaner frames. Bob Fanning Huntsville, AL USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:49:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help! In-Reply-To: <20060422034320.41840.qmail@web53411.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-40DE7671 > You can open the battery box and not expect to loose very many attendant > bees. They stick pretty close to the queens. You can place the battery box in a shady place, and open the cover a crack. The workers will fly, and return to their battery box "home." Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/313 - Release Date: 4/15/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 09:54:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Make sure the candy excape tube is on top so that any dead attendants won't block the exit of the queen. This is one of those things that gets discussed endlessly, like "do you remove the attendants from the cage?" (if there are any) If the candy end is down, dead attendants could block the opening. If the candy end is up, the candy could melt and get all over the queen. I usually put it horizontally, so neither one would happen. Oh, and I don't think it makes any difference whether you let the attendants out. But if you are going to mark the queen, I would certainly let them out. Also, those bees in the battery aren't very important. Queens can live for several days without attendants, if they are warm and have food. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 12:16:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > Oh, and I don't think it makes any difference whether you let the attendants > out. But if you are going to mark the queen, I would certainly let them out. At one of our Annual Meetings the speaker, a reputable scientist but my memory fails me on who it was, said that they do make a significant difference in queen acceptance and to remove them. Had some nice graphs on the subject. (Good graphs always win me over.) Bill Truesdell -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:46:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Queen's attendants (was: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Borst wrote, "I don't think it makes any difference whether you = let the attendants out." Bill Truesdell remembers someone's graphs. =20 I am sure Wyatt Mangum has observed a marked increase in successful = queen introduction based on his experiments with his hundreds of = observation hives. I'm sure he published his findings but can't = remember when or where, likely ABJ, 3 or 4 or more years ago. Time = flies! =20 Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 12:45:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Queen's attendants (was: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help!) In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE0921030C14ED@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron Morris wrote: Peter Borst wrote, "I don't think it makes any difference whether you let the attendants out." Bill Truesdell remembers someone's graphs. I am sure Wyatt Mangum has observed a marked increase in successful queen introduction based on his experiments.......Aaron, What did he do to enduce a marked increase in the successful introductions? Mike in LA --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:24:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Queen's attendants (was: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike in LA asked what Wyatt Mangum did to enduce a marked increase in = the successful introduction (of queens). Answer: he removed the attendants from the queen cage before introducing = the caged queen to his bees. I don't recall what the statistically = significant increase was, but my recollection when reading the article = was, "Hmmm, if I can increase queen acceptance by that much simply by = removing attendants, henceforth I will do so." Since reading the = article, and having removed attendants from that point forward, I cannot = say if I have or have not noticed an increase in MY queen acceptance, I = didn't keep the records either before or after to make a statistical = claim. Mostly I am removing the attendants while I'm in the process of = marking my queens (as Peter recommended). If as Wyatt's study showed, I = am increasing the liklihood that my now marked queen will be accepted, = that's icing on the cake. Cheers, Aaron -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:29:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Queen's attendants (was: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help!) In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE0921030C14ED@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > Bill Truesdell remembers someone's graphs. > > I am sure Wyatt Mangum has observed a marked increase in successful queen introduction based on > his experiments with his hundreds of observation hives. It was Wyatt's graphs. He also brought along smokers and other items and gave two great talks, the am about smokers and the like and the pm on his findings. Great speaker. There are links on the net about his findings but all are talking about them. I could not find something written by him. Thanks, Aaron. Bill -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:53:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: tim Subject: Re: gold line bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al, I had a total of 8 Gold line queens sent to me last year. All have been superceded. At least one is second generation. I also had 11 Russian colonies started last year to contrast. All but one of those also superceded or swarmed-unknown exactly how many. One appeared in my uncle's cinder block smokehouse walls-didn't survive winter-and another small swarm was cast as I was working a neighboring colony. I caught that one. I ended up more than doubling my numbers by splitting into nucs. Also had two nucs of local Italian/alleged Carniolan derivation thrown into genetic stew. Everything open-mated. It seems every colony had interesting blend of genes-mostly distinct-which I wanted. I hope to get I.I. equipment within 2 years and will have quite a diverse selection pool. Of the 30+ colonies, I concluded by early March that 2 exhibited consistent levels of defensiveness beyond which I wanted to tolerate.Combined with others. I think one of those was from Purvis, but 2 generations removed. The rest of my colonies show various levels of testy behavior, mostly inconsistent and probably related to conditions. None of this is particularly extreme. Those closer to Russian are more inclined to fly up from comb towards face. I've taken to always wearing suit with attached veil. Sometimes gloves-if I'm inspecting/feeding many colonies and possibly hurrying and clumsy. I welcome a few therapeutic stings, but there are limits. I just started raising queens. The two mother colonies I chose are both from the Gold lines and they are doing terrific. Superb brood pattern, brood rearing began early enough, but not like pure Italian, and general impression is that these two are very robust and healthy. One colony I had mentally set apart by the late fall because it had managed to store significantly more honey than any other,in spite of drought and then October washout. Population was high and remained so throughout winter. Actually, most of my colonies besides above depended on feeding to survive, either from drought or my having started them late. Conditions lately have been very good and these two examples have been a pleasure to work with. I am anxious to see how the new queens turn out. By June I should have an idea with 2+ weeks of new progeny. I have a lot of confidence in Purvis' product and philosophy, so there is my admitted bias. But I will be fair in judging things. I will be getting 20 or more queens from them in June, so I can compare things as far as that goes. Maybe I am getting lucky also with open mated progeny as well. Then you could buy some of my queens! ;>) Good luck, Al Tim -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:59:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: gold line bees; location In-Reply-To: <004601c66678$b74949a0$60a32544@sheryl2a2057d2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit tim Tim, Nice report. But..... Where are you located? Would like to compare observations but need to know where you are located compared to where I am. Mike in LA (Lower Alabama) --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:12:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Queen's attendants (was: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron Morris wrote: "Hmmm, if I can increase queen acceptance by that much simply by removing attendants, henceforth I will do so." Right. Anything one can do to increase the success of introduction is probably worthwhile. Having lost a queen or two in the process of getting the workers out, it is worth noting that there are easy ways and risky ways. Opening the cork and letting the workers escape while relying on quick reflexes not to let the queen escape -- and doing this outdoors -- can result in a queen flying off into the wild blue yonder. Note, they will usually return to the spot where they escaped from (smart little critters). A better plan is to have a spare cage and let the workers escape into it. The first time you open the hole about half the workers will run into the other cage. Maybe the queen too, but no matter. Release the half without the queen. Repeat until one cage has only the queen. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:33:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Queen's attendants (was: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Borst wrote, "Having lost a queen or two in the process of getting the workers out, it is worth noting that there are easy ways and risky = ways." =20 In a small room in my house with only on window, I remove the screem of = 3-holed cages, or pop the top of a jz's bz cage, and let all the bees = out (attendants AND queen). ALL fly to the window. I capture the = queen, mark her and return her to the cage. Some will ask, "What do you = do with the loose attendants?" and some will complain whith me remark, = "I hoover them." This can be done in an truct too, rolling down the = windows to let attendants escape un harmed. Howerer, the attendants = will orientient on the vehicle, there are lots of windows to which = attendants and queen can fly, and there are lots of places where the = queen can crawl (under the seat, down the defroster, ...). I prefer the = small room in my house. =20 Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:52:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: Queen's attendants (was: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help!) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:12 AM 4/23/06 -0400, you wrote: > >A better plan is to have a spare cage and let the workers escape into it. Thank you for that! I see that Brushy Mountain is selling a "queen muff" for the purpose of removing attendants from queen cages and I suppose other manipulations involving queens and cages such as marking and clipping. It makes sense, but for simply getting attendants out of a cage, your suggestion is perfect. I will try it. George- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:57:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Andrew Johnston Subject: Queens attendants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all re-queeners The safest way to remove attendant workers is; take one A4 size poly bag, place one ungloved hand plus cage of bees in = bag, stuff ends of bag up sleeve to prevent bees escaping. Open cage = allow all bees to escape into bag, gently guide queen back into cage and = close it. Remove hand and trap bees in bag to be dealt with later, no = problem, never been stung doing this. Remember to remove candy plug! Cheers Andy Johnston. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:32:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Queen's attendants (was: JZ's BZ Queen cages- Help!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have done some tests of my own, for example: I requeened half a yard (16) with and half a yard (16) without attendants, and convinced myself that the attendants were not of consequence. Also, from Apis-UK Issue No.12 April 2003: researchers carried out experiments in Ohio, Quebec and British Columbia over a period from 1993 to 1997. Their primary objective was to use synthetic Queen Mandibular Pheromone (QMP), but they also experimented with worker Nasonov gland pheromone. Whilst carrying out these tests, they compared acceptance rates between two types of cages; a wooden Benton cage and a plastic JZBZ cage, and with cages with attendants and without attendants. Even the best result using QMP did not improve introduction success rates at a statistically significant rate. Success rates were normally in the region 80 to 100% and this did not change with the use of bee boost. Interestingly enough, the use of higher doses of Bee Boost indicated a significant decrease in queen acceptance. The experiments which used nasonov pheromone also showed no statistically significant improvement in queen acceptance rates. Statistically, there were no significant differences in the use of wooden or plastic cages, and more interestingly, no significant differences in the use of cages with or without attendant workers. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:35:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Queens attendants (was JZ's BZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>Brushy Mountain is selling a "queen muff"<<< I thought about making one but knew it would be one of those things that = takes up space 364 days a year.=20 Try this: Loosen the wire and corks. Put the queen cage and a small = screwdriver in a 1 gallon baggie. Insert your preferred hand and make = the baggie tight around your wrist with an elastic band. Dismantle the = cage or otherwise free the bees. I then use one of those glass pipes = made for handling queens. (Any piece of glass tubing of the right size = should do). Slip the tube into the bag and carefully encourage the queen = to enter. Slide the tube out and blow her head first into a new cage. = Done! Dick Marron -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:35:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: n't just communicating, they are also doing Math! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bees aren't just communicating, they are also doing Math! Summary of key points in the new paper by Seeley, et al, on Swarm Decision Making. (In American Scientist) Swarms leave their hives and spend some time, commonly on a tree branch, until they have chosen a suitable nest site. The simplest explanation would be that bees dance for various sites and "persuade" a majority of scouts that their site is the best. Then the swarm would go to that site. But it was observed that swarms would sometimes take flight while there were still two distinct groups dancing for two different sites. Seeley theorized that the swarm may have "decided" upon a site based upon the number of bees *at that site*, which he calls a "quorum". This idea suggests that bees "vote" for a site by lingering there, and a truly better site will gain adherents more rapidly than less suitable locations. Two particularly interesting observations are reported. First, bees perform more waggle dance circles for better sites, up to 100 circles, vs. as few as a dozen or so for a mediocre site. This longer duration causes more recruits to go to the better site. Second, the dancing bees return to the site, wait, and then return to dance again -- but upon returning the duration of the dance is reduced by a definite mathematical amount. The amount appears to be optimal, as confirmed by Mary Myercough, a mathematical biologist from Sydney, Australia. Using mathematical models, it was determined that a faster rate of reduction in the duration of the dance would actually prolong the decision making process, and slower rate (longer dances continuing) would fail to produce a clear winner. Seeley and his co-authors state therefore that the honey bee scouts' behavior has been fine tuned to produce a "favorable balance between … speed and accuracy" in the decision making process. One can see that without such a system, some swarms would be unable to decide between very similar nest sites. This system, like any successful system of voting, must produce a winner. [I hope I have presented this in a clear fashion. It is certainly worth reading the whole articel, but as I said, it is copyrighted and so can't be posted it here without permission] pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:49:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: "We'll have to be more careful in our dealings outdoors." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "We'll have to be more careful in our dealings outdoors." Americans spend less and less time outdoors. Now, another reason for them to hide in their living rooms! QUOTE: Jacinto Perez was lucky. The bees that furiously swarmed around him as he worked in a Wellington field stung him only a few times and instead zeroed in on the goats and sheep he was frantically trying to help. One goat and a sheep died in the April 14 attack. Three others suffered multiple stings and required medical attention. A preliminary analysis of the bees in the April 14 incident showed a high possibility that the bees were Africanized, said Jerry Hayes, chief of the aviary section for the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services' Division of Plant Industry. DNA testing is being conducted for confirmation. William Kern, an assistant professor of entomology and nematology at UF's Fort Lauderdale Research and Education Center, said Africanized bee sightings are becoming common in South Florida. "I expect throughout the state, within the next five years, they will be pretty well distributed," said Kern, who recently conducted an Africanized honeybee seminar in Belle Glade and has scheduled more training with first responders and law enforcement. Though eradicating the Africanized honeybees is not an option, state officials suggest that any bee colonies not associated with registered beekeepers be eliminated because they pose a concern, Hayes said. "They've dominated South America and Mexico," Hayes said. "There's no reason that they won't do the same thing in Florida and the Southeast." "Over time, they will replace the regular bees, and we'll have to be more careful in our dealings outdoors. Just as people in Arizona, Texas and Southern California have had to use more caution" said John Capinera, chairman of the University of Florida's entomology department. FROM: Africanized ‘killer’ bees settle into South Florida South Florida Sun-Sentinel -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:41:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: "We'll have to be more careful in our dealings outdoors." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, This morning our local news had a piece about a person removing bees from a building in Miami, Florida. The piece said 3 million bees were in the wall. I have removed many hives from walls such as in the piece and I would guess around 25,000 from the pictures. The bee remover was shown without protection (like it was some big deal). My point is that some person with bees in their walls (in areas of AHB )will see the piece and think. If he can remove those bees without any protection so can I. We as an industry need to stop telling people in areas of AHB not to use caution with all feral swarms and hives. The horse which was stung to death in LaBelle, Florida had over 500 bees in its stomach. I left out of my ABJ article as a minor detail of a serious stinging incident. Until you see first hand the aggressive behavior of AHB when upset you can not realize how nasty these gals can be. Around Ocala, Florida (central Florida and a few miles from the place I was raised) are some of the highest price horses in the nation. Let a couple of half a million dollar race horses get stung to death and beekeeping will be in big trouble in Florida. Our mission as beekeepers (in my opinion) is to inform the public but not scare the public. Think ahead and choose locations wisely. Keep informing the public of the value to agriculture of honey bees. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:39:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: 3 Million Bees Invade House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3 Million Bees Invade House -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:27:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: 3 Million Bees Invade House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From tinurl.com: http://tinyurl.com/oo9oy -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:09:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: The National Cancer Institute acknowledges Apis melifera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The emblem of the Tenth Annual Spring Research Festival is the honeybee, Apis mellifera. Bees have much to offer in addition their calming hum on a summer's day and a taste of honey.... http://web.ncifcrf.gov/events/springfest/honeybee.asp -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:32:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Eric_Brown?= Subject: beekeeping after severe reactions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everyone, A friend of mine told me just recently that he got into an ugly situation with a hive and wound up getting stung a hundred or more times. He had a bad reaction and passed out a few times in a row before being taken to the ER. He never had any breathing difficulty, and I don't know all the medical details, but it was overall a pretty bad reaction. He has about fifty hives, and he'd really like to keep at it, but he doesn't want to foolishly risk his life. It seems possible that it was just the high number of stings that caused the severe reaction, but can anyone speak to that issue from experience? What experiences can you all recount to me about people that continued keeping bees after having severe reactions and how their bodies reacted subsequently? Thanks everyone, Eric -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:41:23 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: beekeeping after severe reactions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>It seems possible that it was just the high number of stings that caused the severe reaction... The first question that comes to mind is how does a person continue to take up to a 100 stings without taking any precautions or corrective actions... Unless this was a AHB episode or an unusually nasty EHB colony, I'd say not retreating was rather foolish. While perhaps not life-threatening to most people, 100 stings is a large dose of bee venom especially if the stingers are not scrapped off right away. The most I've received in one session - while bee-vaccing a colony in a tree hole 30 ft above the ground - was some 12 to 20 stings. I could not take the tree apart, the entrance hole was restricting access and therefore removal. Initial smoking caused the bees to retreat deeper and hit the honey. So I upset them purposefully to entice them to counterattack so I could vaccum them up at the entrance with relative ease. Naturally, some evaded the vac hose and reached their target. I wore a veil - the stings were mostly to my uncovered legs and arms. It was getting dark and I was determined to finish the job then. And I knew I was quickly reducing the number of bees available to sting. If I knew I could receive great many more stings, I'd have stopped to take other counter-measures or precautions. Driving home afterwards, I felt a little hotter and light-headed but my breathing was not abnormal. I was back to normal the next morning. Based on my OWN experience, many multiple stings do not make the person more vulnerable for the next time UNLESS an allergy is developing. In any event, I'd urge everyone not to take careless chances. Everyone has some tolerance limit and on a given day it may be lower. Your life is at stake. Don't be macho. Keep in mind the AHB behavior potential... Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:35:51 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Beekeeping after severe reaction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eric, Your friend shouldn't worry about it too much - if he was really = allergic he would be dead. I've seen a bad reaction from single sting = and believe me it is fast and frightening. I thought that the victim = was going to die within five minutes of being stung.=20 I had a death described to me by a friend whose daughter received a = single sting - she died before he had gone 500m in his car on the way = to hospital. Your friend should however under a test for sensitivity to Hymenoptera = venom and ALWAYS carry an Epipen and Zyrtec tablets with him just in = case. Best regards Roger White Superbee bees Cyprus. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:54:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Nicholas S Behrens Subject: Re: beekeeping after severe reactions In-Reply-To: <20060426.114209.19235.810775@webmail29.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Did the doctors suggest an EpiPen to him at all? If I was him and >had that happen, I would maybe start carrying around an EpiPen, >however it pry wouldnt help to much with just getting faint, but >rather if his throat swell shut. my two cents. Nick >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:30:48 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron van Mierlo Subject: Re: Beekeeping after severe reaction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-7"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all The subject of beekeeping and a possible anaphylactic shock is a tricky one I reckon. I wrote a little on this subject (see http://www.trollbi.se/eepipen.htm). We as apiary inspectors in our area have in the last meeting discussed the possibility of obtaining the Epipen for ourselves more easily than has been the case. So far in Sweden you can only get one on a doctors prescription, thus persons that have not yet had a bad turn or otherwise shown to be sensitive would normally not get an Epipen either. But those exposed to many bees or there where the combination of many bees and (many?) people exists, I reckon that there should be access to at least one Epipen! It's better be safe than sorry! Let's see how this will develop. Over a year ago I was stung, receiving 67 of those nice stings all over me, but in my case it stayed with just the discomfort of the swelling for some days. Some sting marks took a few months to disappear, but other than that no bad reactions....but you will never know how it will go a next time something similar happens. Ron van Mierlo -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 05:13:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: beekeeping after severe reactions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Eric, I have been keeping bees since 1962. I have been stung thousands of times. I now keep bees primarily for the use of their stings in therapy for arthritis and Multiple Sclerosis. I am immune to the swelling effects of bee stings, because of my frequent use of them on myself. Folks who don't get stung very often should have a greater reaction to high numbers of stings, in my experience. The best protection to have around bees is immunity. I don't know if your friend has been stung enough to obtain immunity, but if he has always avoided getting stung, he could be at risk in a bad situation. I have been stung about 200 times in a 2 hour period before and lost feeling in my legs. I didn't experience any other symptoms, however, I had a well developed immunity and the next day, everything was normal. About 2 years ago, I had a hive "turn on me" during a sudden weather change and I got dozens of stings, with no ill effects. I have a close friend I am providing stings for, because he has MS. We started out slowly with a few stings several days apart and worked up his immunity in about 6 weeks. He has had as many as 65 stings in one session, with no ill effects. We usually take 15 - 20 stings per session 2 times per week now. In all the years I have kept bees, I have only had maybe a half dozen instances of high sting numbers and I have never had any ill effects. In the 70's I went years without keeping bees. An opportunity came up to obtain some bees and I had a bad round of stings the very first day, while moving the bees, because the hive turned over in the trailer and I had to put it back together. I must have been stung 50 times that day and I still had my immunity from years prior! I had no real swelling. I highly recommend anyone keeping bees to get enough stings to obtain immunity and it should be a good health insurance policy during and after the rare bad instance, such as your friend has experienced. Most of my beekeeping friends can tell a similar beekeeping war story, but they are still keeping bees. Seem's everybody gets ate up on occasion. I hope this help out a bit. Robert J. Bassett -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 06:19:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] beekeeping after severe reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by beegood@GMAIL.COM to the BEE-L = list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously = posted material. ________________________________ From: Lloyd Spear [mailto:beegood@gmail.com] Sent: Wed 2006.04.26 17:48 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: [BEE-L] beekeeping after severe reactions I think it is important to realize he absorbed a lot of poison. These poisons work by inducing the body to produce an allergic = reaction...which is exactly what he had. You do not mention age and a host of other information that could have a bearing on future reactions, but it is best if a physican evaluate these matters. Back many years ago, I had allergic reactions. In those days one could = give oneself shots of anti-venom, and I did just that every month for two = years. Since, I have had no reactions at all and frequently receive more than = 10 stings a day. I do not wear gloves and in the summer I work in short sleeves. So, it is possible to develop some kind of 'immunity', which all = commercial beekeepers have. Difficult to speculate on whether your friend should = make the attempt as reactions are likely to get worse before they gradually = start getting better. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:15:13 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jo=E3o=20Campos?= Subject: Re: beekeeping after severe reactions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > if he was really allergic he would be dead Allergic reactions and intoxication are two separate, possibly life-threatening effects of mass stinging events. Both vary a lot from one person to other, and allergy may develop and go away in time. There's a small book from Harry Riches on this subject I strongly suggest for those who want to know more: The chapter "Allergy to Venomous Insects" from Justin Schmidt, in the 1992 edition of THATHB can also be of some help. Cheers, João Campos _______________________________________________________ Novidade no Yahoo! Mail: receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora! http://br.mobile.yahoo.com/mailalertas/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:58:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: tim Subject: Re: gold line bees; location MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, I am located in scenic Bucks County, PA. about a mile east of the village of Point Pleasant. This was the site of a ferry across the Delaware River to New Jersey. Hence the earlier names of Black's and Pearson's Ferry. The south end was also known as Lower Black Eddy. To answer the obvious: Upper Black Eddy is about 8 miles north across from the N.J. village of Frenchtown. We are about 35 miles north of Philadelphia. Our climate zone follows a line just south of the Blue Ridge, with temps very similar through mid to southern Virginia. I provide all the extra information because I enjoy cultural geography, and welcome hearing about others' local points of interest. Mike, I've just reread most of your posts and find them thoughtful, informative, and clearly coming from a desire to advance the cause of beekeepers and beekeeping. Also we are in tune with a lot of perspectives, particularly early fall requeening and northern stock development. In fact, I am banking on making a living from this philosophy. I'm gittin' er done, as I trust time will show. As soon as I can afford the equipment for I.I. I can begin to solidify my desired traits into a reliable line-or actually several lines to control inbreeding. In the meantime I am accumulating top quality stock and letting them sew their wild oats. So far, nearly every colony exhibits its own "personality" so I will have an interesting time determining best breeding choices. Hope you have a superior bee year. Tim -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:56:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jeanne Price Subject: Re: beekeeping after severe reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric wrote: It seems possible that it was just the high number of stings that caused the severe reaction, but can anyone speak to that issue from experience? > What experiences can you all recount to me about people that continued keeping bees after having severe reactions and how their bodies reacted subsequently? Eric, it has been my personal experience that one develops a certain amount of immunity to stings when receiving stings periodically over time. However, I've never gotten more than a dozen or so in one day. When I started beekeeping 7 or 8 years ago, I suffered from severe swelling the first year. With one sting to my arm, I once had swelling from my fingertips to my eyes. I seldom have any swelling now. In fact, I use stings for treating arthritis in my fingers and find that it works for me. My guess is that your friends reaction was from the high number of stings! Jeanne -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---