From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:24:55 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC8549056 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SF1MLm014128 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0605B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 52690 Lines: 1262 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 12:10:57 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey Bees Taught to Detect Explosives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sniffer Bees: New Flying Squad in War Against Terror Terrorists, beware the ultimate sting: a British company has developed a device to detect explosives at airports with the help of specially trained honey bees... For full article, go to: www.apitherapynews.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 16:59:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robin Dartington Subject: Re: Problem seeing eggs and larvae MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Bryan Isaac" >' I couldn't find the larvae (except by chance) to graft' Are you getting the eggs laid in comb being drawn from fresh foundation? It is much easier to see eggs in clean yellow wax than in old black comb. Robin -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 07:39:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: Problem seeing eggs and larvae " & queen candy recipe question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use a Jenter system..that way you are insured of proper larvae age and if you are fumble fingered or have trouble seeing larvae its still easy. Now a question: I am beginning to sell a few of my varroa resistant queens but the only queen candy I have found that I like contains honey to keep it soft. I searched the archives the best I know but was unable to find a proven recipe for queen candy. Has anyone got a good proven queen candy recipe they are willing to share? Thanks John Horton UA (Upper Alabama :) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 09:01:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Question on queen cells In-Reply-To: <4427FD4C.3010500@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On a local bee list I read that a beginning beekeeper installed packages on foundation on two separate colonies. They then found that one colony was queen right with larva and eggs but the other had no queen. They also found a queen cell in the queenless colony. My question is - do bees start queen cells if there are no eggs? I have my doubts that there were no eggs, since there was no queen in the queen cage. However, someone told them that this was what happened, that the queen was dead before she started laying since they cold see no eggs (they did not tear down the queen cell and look). Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 07:14:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Question on queen cells In-Reply-To: <446092BB.20807@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had a similar situation many years ago. I installed my packages per the normal method, and one week later went back and picked up the empty queen cages. All had been released from their mailing cages. The candy end, punctured with a nail, was clean as a whistle. About the second week, I went back through my hives to see how the queens were doing. One package (out of several that went as planned) raised a queen cell. I ordered marked queens and could not find the queen. There was no brood. Just this one queen cell. And of course, not a lot of bees. My best guess is that they allowed the queen to lay one egg before they dispatched her to the realm of the dead queens. I didn't know what to do and I didn't want to spend more money on another queen (given the hope I could get one at that late date). So I just let the colony raise that one queen cell. The hive came around, though slowly and it never did produce anything that summer. I've never had another instance like this again, though as I've matured in my practices, I've given up ordering packages. I'm now raising my own queens and making summer splits after the honey flow. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 11:41:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Can You Believe This Story Involving Bees, Pigs, Cattle, Cherry & Apple Trees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From Keith Malone to Dee Lusby, and on to BEE-L is the following article from Associated Press. Dee writes, "Sure makes me wonder where things are headed in today's world, as people get more domesticated........." Regards, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona > > > > http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_WA_Bees_Ruling.html -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 11:32:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Almer's Apiary Subject: Re: Problem seeing eggs and larvae " & queen candy recipe question Comments: cc: Dennis Barclift In-Reply-To: <000701c67365$ae69fab0$4fe84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the benefit of other Alabama Beekeepers and hopefully to build trust among others that the Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industries works hard to insure the health of Alabama bees, it is against Alabama State Law (2-14-4b Code of Alabama 1975)to include any honey in queen cage candy (my wording - For exact wording see: http://www.legislature.state.al.us/codeofalabama/1975/coatoc.htm navigate to section 2-14-4b. If the above link does not work, try www.alabees.com, click on "Alabama Law" and navigate to 2-14-4b. I would expect that this may well be the law in most states. Bob Fanning Beekeeper Madison County (Huntsville) Alabama USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 12:31:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Howe Subject: old honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, I am a hobbyist beekeeper with three hives. My bees absconded with tracheal mites last year leaving a lot of = unbtouched honey. I have fed a good deal of this to my new packages but I still have lots = of honey from last year left over. Can I extract and sell this honey and = will it be as good as "fresh" honey? Or what should I do with it? Any = help weould be appreciated. Yours, John Howe The Brooklyn Bee -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 11:15:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Can You Believe This Story Involving Bees, Pigs, Cattle, Cherry & Apple Trees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Large scale beekeeping is in serious danger in many areas from urban sprawl. I hope "Doc" will post on the Florida Beekeepers site the information Aaron posted. Beekeeping is more of a privledge than a right. Or "Justice is the will of the stronger". Those of us which keep bees around urban areas see regulations coming to restrict beekeeping. Honest information concerning the case presented: Holding yards are very different than beekeeping outyards for those on the list which are not familiar with the terms. Outyards are normally from 10-40 hives. I normally do 24 hives on six pallets. The problem presented is with a holding yard. Holding yards we use usually contain around 600 hives but could contain many thousand (like the one pictured in my April ABJ article). The first complaint is from the bee poop on cars. The poop not washed off can cause some paint lift spots about the size of the head of a pen. Swarms landing in their yards plus stinging incidents are the next neighbor can happen problems. A common approach to get rid of the bees by landowners is that every member of the household is allergic to bee stings (or so they say). I have got over 200 hives at my house without problems but I do not like the bee poop on my trucks and not being able to hang clothes on the clothes line. All the hives will be gone into outyards within two weeks. I would never let a dispute with a neighbor go to the legal stage. Why not? Look what happened in the case presented! Will the neighbor now stop or continue on until the beekeeper has to relocate? The time of the year has quite a bit to do with holding yards and neighbor problems. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 12:42:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Question on queen cells In-Reply-To: <20060509141430.77490.qmail@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Grant Gillard wrote: > So I just let the colony raise > that one queen cell. So there was an egg. I have heard that bees can rob eggs from other hives, so this could be a reason. But do they start queen cells without eggs? Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 19:13:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Bee candy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, still no response from anybody on a good queen candy recipe except the President of our beekeeping club who informed me that it is illegal to use honey in the queen candy. As I told him, I have sold a grand total of 2 queens so far so it seems that this is nipped in the bud in part at least thanks to his diligence(although I wasnt planning on selling queens w/honey in the candy as a practice-being aware of the disease potential esp AFB) Again, anybody out there know a good queen candy recipe. Last call for help John Horton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 18:34:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: old honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/05/2006 18:25:07 GMT Standard Time, john.howe@EARTHLINK.NET writes: I still have lots of honey from last year left over. Can I extract and sell this honey and will it be as good as "fresh" honey? Or what should I do with it? If it is still fluid you can extract it. Depending on the temperature and the length of storage the honey may have a raised level of HMF for which you can test indirectly. Even if the HMF is to high to sell as table honey it can still be used as baker's honey. Today I used several pounds of honey which must be 25 years old to make honey beer. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 16:52:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: old honey In-Reply-To: <006001c67386$017785e0$6400a8c0@john> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Freshness is not an issue, but extraction may be difficult as it may have crystallized in the comb. Beyond that, assuming this honey is in the brood boxes, I have two concerns: 1) Did you give them any chemical treatments that may have left residues in the honey? 2) If you fed them sugar syrup before the main honey flow, or going into winter before they died, you may have a combination of sugar and honey down there. If you're not sure, I would save it and use it as feed later. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO -----Original Message----- Can I extract and sell this honey (from last year) and will it be as good as "fresh" honey? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 21:05:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Churchill Subject: Re: Bee candy In-Reply-To: <006501c673c6$987e7120$dfe84cd8@HortonFamily> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:13 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote: >Again, anybody out there know a good queen candy recipe. >Last call for help Google is a wonderful thing: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping:_Recipes_for_the_Bees#Fondant_Bee_Candy http://www.beekeeping.com/goodies/bee_candy.htm http://www.bbka.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=776 http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/feedingcandy.html#qcandy Or, you could try using a miniature marshmallow compressed to fit the opening in the queen cage. Re: tartaric acid (cream of tartar in the US): this is added to fondant recipies since it helps prevent the sugar from recrystallizing. I have read that it also may shorten the life of bees who consume it, so my inclination is to leave it out and take my chances with recrystalizing. Mike C -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 23:09:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Howe Subject: HMF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris-- What is HMF please? >the honey may have a raised level of HMF for which you > can test indirectly > > Chris > > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 20:09:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: queen candy recipe question In-Reply-To: <000701c67365$ae69fab0$4fe84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John & Christy Horton wrote: Has anyone got a good proven queen candy recipe they are willing to share? Thanks John Horton UA (Upper Alabama :) John, Think your current recipe is probably good, just add a few drops of glycerin into it to keep it from drying out. Otherwise, keep adding powdered sugar to the honey/p-sugar mixture and kneed it until it gets a stiff dough like texture. U'ready to go then. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2�/min or less. --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 19:21:55 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Question on queen cells In-Reply-To: <4460C67A.9030605@suscom-maine.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >I have heard that bees can rob eggs from other hives How would robber bees transport stolen eggs back to their own hives? Would they carry the eggs in their crop and reguritate them while back in their own hives? Would they toss them into their pollen baskets? Would they carry them in their mandibles? Have any researchers documented bees stealing eggs? Just curious. Regards, Dick Allen -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 20:20:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Problem seeing eggs and larvae " & queen candy recipe question In-Reply-To: <200605091632.k49GWYQq019721@smtp.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Almer's Apiary wrote: For the benefit of other Alabama Beekeepers and hopefully to build trust among others that the Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industries works hard to insure the health of Alabama bees, it is against Alabama State Law (2-14-4b Code of Alabama 1975)to include any honey in queen cage candy (my wording) Good point. Use sugar syrup instead of honey. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo! FareChase -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 21:49:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Wiebe Subject: I Wonder? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've silently been reading the BEE-list for numerous years now and I must say that I've learned a lot from same and enjoy many of the different viewpoints. A few years ago I had a 75'x100' hole dug, 16' deep. I used the dirt from the hole to raised the ground level about three feet on three sides of the dugout. After leveling this dirt and seeding grass seed in same, I had a nice high dry place for a bee yard. I've successfully kept 50 to 60 hives summer and winter in this yard The fourth side which is the low allows the dugout to fill with water every spring or during a good rain. I installed 2 high volume low pressure windmill driven air pumps to aerate the water. Next I released 75 to 100 rainbow trout fingerlings, which I fed regularly. The fish grew very well for a couple or three years. I had some 18 to 20 inches in length. They tasted kinda muddy but they were fun to feed and watch, they can become quite pretty. After about the thrid year, I cannot get any trout to survive in that hole any more. I am wondering????? with 50 X 60,000 bees gathering water for daily use in their hives, a lot of them drown. I have over the years never seen a trout hit a drowning bee as it would hit a mayfly and gobble it down, I don't think trout like bees as a food ???? but what I'm really wondering and why I wrote all the above, is with the hugh number of bees that drown in that puddle every year,could it be possible that the water is so polluted with bee venom that the venom could be killing the trout and that is why they can't survive any more??? Who said that ALL beekeepers were normal? John -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:19:42 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: HMF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try http://www.airborne.co.nz/HMF.html Ruary > Chris-- What is HMF please? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:29:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bee candy In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060509204529.01c030f0@keyrelevance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike > Or, you could try using a miniature marshmallow compressed to fit the > opening in the queen cage. While I have used marshmallow successfully for releasing queens, I would not recommend it for travelling cages, unless you are talking about transfer from one apiary to another within a few minutes, mailing would cause the marshmallow to shrink and/or could easily be completely consumed as it does not contain as much sucrose as queen candy. In UK we use honey to make queen candy... We have a policy of destruction by fire for AFB and no use of antibiotics, that does not mean that AFB does not occur, but it is very rare. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 05:13:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: HMF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hydroxymethylfurfuraldehyde. It is one of the breakdown products of sugar and naturally occurs through age, much accelerated through the application of heat. It's the stuff that turns your strawberry jam brown. In the UK and probably throughout the EU it is illegal to attempt to sell table honey with (if I have got the figure right in my head) more than 40 ppm of HMF. Above that level it has to be labelled as 'Baker's Honey - suitable only for cooking.' Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 05:16:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: Bee candy In-Reply-To: <006501c673c6$987e7120$dfe84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John & Christy Horton wrote: > Again, anybody out there know a good queen candy recipe. > Last call for help I've used a marshmallow the few times I needed to plug a queen cage. I found this recipe at Wiki Books: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping:_Recipes_for_the_Bees Fondant Bee Candy Fondant bee candy can be fed directly to the bees once cooled. It is also common to use this recipe in small quantities to plug the hole on a Queen Cage. 4 parts (by volume) white sugar 4 parts (by volume) 2:1 Syrup or High Fructose Corn Syrup 3 parts (by volume) water Boil water and slowly add the syrup and sugar until dissolved. Continue heating until the mixture reaches 238°F (114°C) without mixing. Allow the solution to cool until it is slightly warm to the touch, and begin to mix and aerate the solution, the color should lighten. Pour into shallow dishes or mold and save for later use. George- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 06:28:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bee candy In-Reply-To: <006501c673c6$987e7120$dfe84cd8@HortonFamily> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1987683E > Again, anybody out there know a good queen candy recipe. >Last call for help I plan on using HFCS instead of honey, to make my queen cage candy. I expect that it will work the same. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 07:39:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: HMF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by jtemp@XS4ALL.NL to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jan Tempelman [mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl] > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 6:35 AM > To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > Subject: Re: [BEE-L] HMF > > > or try > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/hmf.html -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 07:47:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Williams Subject: Re: I Wonder? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First I would have the water tested. I think there is a strong possibility of nitride/nitrate buildup in the water. Complete water change out may be necessary and dredging much of the sediment out too. There are test kits available at you local tropical fish store. I don't know much about keeping trout but I used to visit a trout fish hatchery in Arkansas and I remember that they stressed the need for fresh running water to keep them in their pools. Also, you might be able get help from your county agent. George in Central FL -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:11:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Bee candy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by malka@MILLIC.COM.AR to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Braunstein [mailto:malka@millic.com.ar] > > Hi Mike, > > I don`t suggest to use HFCS. The candy obtained will become > hard as rock. > The bees jaws are not strong enough to chew it and they will > not eat it. > > You should use either inverted sugar syrup or irradiated honey. > > Best regards, > > > Martin Braunstein > www.malkaqueens.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 10:19:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Howe Subject: Re: old honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you all for your response on what is HMF. Chris says: "raised level of HMF for which you can test indirectly.", Can anybody tell me how to test for it? Thankfully, John Howe The Brooklyn Bee -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 17:02:32 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: old honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The easiest method is to do an indirect test and measure the hydogen peroxide produced by glucose oxidase. dilute 10 gm honey with 40gm water at 20degrees Celsius, maintain that temperature for one hour. Using a hydrogen peroxide test strip ( range 0-25mg H2O2 / per litre) measure the hydrogen peroxide produced. Multiply by 5 to get the micrograms of H2O2 produced per 1 gram / per hour. If micrograms H2O2 / gm /hour is greater than or equal to 10 then HMF is lower than 40Mg/ Kg with 95% reliability. Ruary > Can anybody tell me how to test for it? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 11:55:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: Pondering HFCS In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed High Fructose Corn Sweeteners... used in soft drinks instead of cane sugar for the last generation, is now being blamed for obesity. One of the suggestions is that is suppresses a chemical that tells you you've had enough carbs or are full, and promotes over consumption. My question is this, HFCS is an economical food for bees over the winter. What assurances do we have that none of it is transferred up to the honey supers? At what level is HFCS actually discernable in honey? For those who want organic, or at least natural, honey... would that preclude the beekeeper from feeding HFCS? Please don't turn this question into a question of what constitutes organic honey, but I'm wondering if HFCS is already in a lot of honey and just at level deemed acceptable or non-detectible. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 19:20:35 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Fischer Alchemy Subject: Re: HMF HMF? Its not just a chemical, its a price support for European beekeepers! HMF is one of the biggest and best con games ever to be thought up in the honey export/import game. If you thought that fire drill (dare I say "Chinese Fire Drill"?) over trace levels of chloramphenicol in honey was a good con, you'll just love "HMF". If your country has cool summers, HMF levels are very low in harvested honey, and it takes only a little care to keep the HMF levels very low during and after processing. If your country has hot summers, HMF levels are higher in harvested honey, and no amount of care can lower the HMF level after harvest (to my knowledge, at least). While it is true that honey heated to within an inch of its life will have a much higher HMF level than honey that is not, there is no claimed health impact from higher HMF (which is why higher HMFs are allowed in "baker's honey", but not in higher-value "table honey".) Despite this, countries that otherwise rant and rave about "free trade" when it suits them, see fit to impose illegal non-tariff barriers to trade based solely upon HMF levels, which is a blatant protectionist move. The EU sets these limits in "Council Directive 2001/110/EC". HMF may not be more than 40 mg/kg, except for baker's honey, where amazingly enough, no limit is specified. Now, if you think about who has hot summers and who has cool summers, you can easily figure out who likes the HMF standards unilaterally imposed by the EU and who does not. And if you think about the price delta between table honey and "baker's honey", you can figure out what a great con game this is for the protectionists in cool countries. You can gnash your teeth and rend your garments over this, or you can admire the elegance with which some countries speak "free trade" out of one side of their mouth while simultaneously protecting even their beekeepers from anything of the sort. The good news here is that moves like this inherently doom "world trade" (WTO, NAFTA, et al) as all countries learn to tap-dance their way around the agreements, and do exactly what they want regardless of what the agreements say. As far as being an actual indicator of quality honey, HMF is to honey quality as phrenology is to neural anatomy. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 19:34:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: HFCS in honey? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Rob asks "I'm wondering if HFCS is already in a lot of honey and just at level deemed acceptable or non-detectable." Last I heard HFCS levels of over 6% are detectable in honey. But 5% of all the honey sold in the US is a very large number...so there is plenty of incentive to dilute. But, who cares? Do the packers REALLY care? Do the large cereal makers? Sure, Whole Foods and their ilk care, but do they care enough to (pay the money) to test? Unless they do, the packers will not test. My guess is this question is in the hands of the Krogers, Whole Foods, Piggly Wiggly, Kellogs, etc of the world. Unless they care, economic theory says that HFC= S will be at just about 5% of the honey sold. Sorry to be so cynical, but it may be the result of being 66 years old! --=20 Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 19:37:39 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Fischer Alchemy Subject: Re: Pondering HFCS > What assurances do we have that none of it is > transferred up to the honey supers? None at all, if you overfeed, and your colonies do not "burn all the HFCS up" raising brood. > At what level is HFCS actually discernable > in honey? Very very very very very very very low levels. A "carbon isotope ratio" test can detect HFCS in honey. (I'd have to check the latest lab equipment catalogs to give an accurate detection level, but if anyone wants to check, the kewl way I think is state-of-the-art is via "Infrared Laser Spectroscopy". For all I know, that method could be "soooo 20 minutes ago" by now.) The difference depends upon the specific photosynthetic process used by each plant. Honey "should" be made from "C3" (Calvin cycle) plants rather than "C4" (Hatch-Slack cycle). The ratio of C-13 to C-12 is what varies between C3 and C4 type plants. Corn is a "C4" plant, while all (to my non-botanist knowledge) honey plants are "C3". Bad news, sugar beets are "C3" type plants, but not to worry, there are other tests to find sugar-beet adulterated honey. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 21:57:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Pondering HFCS In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060511115032.05cb9808@BluffwoodCreek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob Green wrote: > Please don't turn this question into a question of what constitutes > organic honey, but I'm wondering if HFCS is already in a lot of honey > and just at level deemed acceptable or non-detectible. It has been determined that sugar is found in honey. HCFS is High Fructose Corn Syrup. It has been determined that Fructose is found in honey. HCFS has glucose. It has been determined that honey has glucose in it. HCFS has sucrose in it. It has been determined that honey has sucrose in it. If organic honey is devoid of sucrose, glucose and fructose, then the rest of us beekeepers are producing non-organic honey since ours is loaded with it. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 07:54:50 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: [BEE-L] HMF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't see HMF as solely protective scam by EU. If it is such it sure is not a qood one. We have a lot of honey coming to Finland ( and other places in EU) from Argentina Brasil and China. Jim, did you know that there is higher limit for the countries that are in the tropics. 60 mg if I remenber right. No definition in the rule what is tropical so USA should fit as Florida is tropical. I and most beekeepers I know feel that honey sold should be quite near the way it is in the beehive. HMF gives a bitter taste to honey above 100 mg. Also honey is valuable food because it contains enzymes and antioxidants. These are destroyed by long storage and heat treatments. HMF level is a simple indication how much heat pressure ( combination of heat and time) honey has had. I would like to know how much Florida honey has HMF after extraction ? My guess less than 5 mg. After a year at the home table in Miami about 20 - 35 mg. HMF has lot to do with honey getting darker by time. Which beekeeper thinks that honey which is darkened by heating is still first quality ? Jim, what method would you recommend to separate qood quality dark honeys fron honeys darkened by heating or long storage. Ari Seppälä Finland -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 22:48:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Pondering HFCS In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060511115032.05cb9808@BluffwoodCreek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rob Green writes: For those who want organic, or at least natural, honey... would that preclude the beekeeper from feeding HFCS? Reply: Yes IMPOV and is what the organicbeekeepers list at yahoo is about, and to quote the first paragraph on the home page: "where beekeepers can learn Organic Beekeeping field management without the use of drugs, chemicals, essential oils, FGMO, acids, fungicides, bacterial/viral inhibitants, micro-organism stimuli, and artificial feeds." Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 15:11:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Queen Trauma MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to all: On the supposition that the queen was healthy , could simply the fact that she experienced removal from the swarm be enough of a traumatic effect to kill her? I had received a phone call from a friend who asked -- Need a queen? I arrived at his place and was told that a swarm had been caught and the decision was made to join it to the hive it came from since there was a new queen and the 2 year old marked queen which was in that swarm was given to me . I brought her home in a plastic queen cage with no attendants. The candy was soft and she was given a few drops of water and a drop or so of honey which she took in. The cage was kept in a battery box ( box for several cages) The next morning we held two minutes of silence for her. Opinions welcome Walter Ontario -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 04:40:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Propolis Flavone Enhances Immune Response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Propolis Flavone Enhances Immune Response Chinese Herbal Medicinal Ingredients Enhance Immunogenicity Science Letter, 5/19/2006 According to a report published in the journal Vaccine, "Two compound Chinese herbal medicinal ingredients (cCls) were prepared respectively with epimedium polysaccharide (EPS) plus propolis flavone (PF) and astragalus polysaccharide (APS) plus ginsenoside (GS). Also, two compound Chinese herbal medicines (cCMs) with the same ingredient content as corresponding cCls were made with the extracts of epimedium plus propolis and astragalus plus ginseng."... For more information, go to: www.apitherapynews.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 12:08:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Rob Green Subject: Re: Pondering HFCS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hey Bill, I know ALL that. The issue I'm trying to get at is the HFCS is being blamed for obesity, where other sweeteners don't seem to share in the blame. If there IS something in HFCS that is to blame, and some of it is being relocated into the honey and the changes in it brought about by the bees doesn't change what is suggested to be the harmful property of HFCS, then my question remains... how much HFCS can be in the honey before it's detectible. I've heard 5% and I've heard "miniscule" and now you've suggested that it's irrelevant, that it's all just fructose and sucrose anyway. This MAY be true, and HFCS may not have any blame in obesity. It is getting to be perceived as a cause, however. My question, and maybe I wasn't real clear, was how much HFCS is getting into our honey, not by purposeful adulteration but simply by feeding. At 12:00 AM 5/13/2006, you wrote: >It has been determined that sugar is found in honey. > >If organic honey is devoid of sucrose, glucose and fructose, then >the rest of us beekeepers are >producing non-organic honey since ours is loaded with it. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Rob Green Subject: Pondering HFCS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yes, Thank you Dee. I follow your postings but I was simply overwhelmed with the traffic on the Organic yahoogroup that I've not been able to devote the time to sift through so much. However I do appreciate what you do, and your thoughtful replies. You've helped me before. I appreciate "organic practices" and "avoiding the use of anything unnatural". I was specifically pondering the potential issue of HFCS. The organic position that all artificial feedings are to be avoided is understood, and certainly can get you a higher priced and superior product from a specific target market. I guess the issue is the relative badness of the different sugar feeds, and whether HFCS is detectable specifically. Folks, this HFCS issue isn't going to go away. It could have an impact on our sales, and more importantly, if HFCS is generally considered unhealthy by the marketplace (rightly or wrongly so) then it's NOT going to help the reputation of honey. At 12:00 AM 5/13/2006, you wrote: >Yes IMPOV and is what the organicbeekeepers list at yahoo >is about -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 18:13:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan&jan Subject: Re: old honey MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; reply-type=original; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The old honey might have picked up moisture and be a candidate for fermentation. Feed ,dehydrate or make mead Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC zone 6a -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 14:16:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: walter weller Subject: Re: old honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're suspicious of the flavor of the old honey, then please don't = make mead out of it. It's hard enough to make good mead with good = honey; impossible with bad. Walter Weller -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---