From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:25:39 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.3 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C294906E for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SF1MLw014128 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0606C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 54413 Lines: 1315 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 06:25:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Honey article in New York Times In-Reply-To: <017ff415103264e43b65ea06857fe3dc@lifesci.ucsb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-18725E62 > "Blossom to Table: Honey Grows Up." The article refers to a New York, Finger Lakes Beekeeper. His name is Alan Tremblay, not Don. Alan moved east from Manitoba, Canada years ago, to work for FW Jones and Son...bee supply dealers..in Bedford Quebec. He is now in the Ithaca, NY area. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/359 - Release Date: 6/8/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:48:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: Minnesota Apiary Statute Repealed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I spoke with Al Junke one of the State Legistlators whom the Mn Honey Producers worked with to get the state Apiary Laws repealed. The concept was "sold" to him under the auspice of the regulations being antiquated and not reflecting modern beekeeping. They had someone from U/M entomology who testified to that affect. Anyhow Mr Junke said that he and the Ag Committee would be open to new rule proposals that reflect modern beekeeping. I urge all interested Mn beekeepers to contact him with any ideas you have. After talking with other migratory beekeepers, and noting the funny games that went on at the California border this spring (Bee Journal articles) most feel that inspections are worthless and do not stop foulbrood, SHB or any problems hives from entering Mn. I can see the sense of that position. My reaction to all of this is Ok lets get modern. Why not have migratory beekepers submit a managment plan to the state and apply for a migratory beekeeping liscence. The management plan would need to include their methods of dealing with SHB, varrora mites and foulbrood. Very similar to organic farmers who must submit a plan to meet organic standards. The management plan would obviously reflect the beekeepers situation and knowledge and be flexible to their own needs. A requirementr for documenting Varrora treatments, FB and SHB could also be included just like organic certification. If a beekeeper cannot sumbit a plan that shows due diligence in combating SHB, FB or mites and provide the required treatment documentation then why should other beekeepers in that state be subject to their mismanagement? An inspection then would be similar to an organicx certification audit. Show me your plan and I wll verify you are following it. I beleive this would create positive change in the industry. WIth a management plan and audit the whole picture is being evaluated. No effective, practiced management plan... no migratory liscense and no movement in and out of the state of hives. What do you all think of that idea? I think that the illegal use of Tactic, over use of Tylan and not burning FB frames and letting SHB run amok in hives would be curtailed with a system like that. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:18:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Size of AFB spores Comments: To: Peter Detchon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter, Thought this might help. The proventriculus filters the nectar and removes debris such as pollen grains and the fungal spores that cause foul brood. A valve at the bottom of the proventriculus prevents the filtered nectar from entering the bee’s digestive system, but allows the debris removed from the nectar to pass into the bee’s alimentary canal and into the intestines where it is first stored then later voided from the rectum. Testing the speed and efficiency in which an introduced contaminate passes thru the digestive system might be the best method for determining which lines have a well developed proventriculus. THE R-VALUES OF HONEY: POLLEN COEFFICIENTS http://www.nhb.org/download/research/rvalue.pdf “The honeybee’s filtering process is rapid and effective (Snodgrass and Erickson, 1992). The bee sucks nectar into a slender tube that ends in the bee’s abdomen where it becomes an enlarged thin-walled sac called the honey stomach. This honey stomach is greatly distensible and can expand to hold large amounts of nectar. Once in the honey stomach, the nectar flows over the proventriculus that serves as a regulatory apparatus filtering and controlling the entrance of food into the bee’s stomach. The anterior end of the proventriculus, called the honey stopper, projects into the bee’s honey stomach like the neck of a bottle. At its anterior end is an x- shaped opening consisting of four, thick, triangular-shaped, muscle controlled lips. Nectar in the honey stomach is drawn back and forth into the funnel-shaped proventriculus. This process filters the nectar and removes debris such as pollen grains and the fungal spores that cause foul brood. The posterior end of the proventriculus extends into the anterior end of the ventriculus, the part of the bee’s alimentary canal (mid gut) where digestion and food absorption occurs. A valve at the bottom of the proventriculus prevents the filtered nectar from entering the bee’s digestive system, but allows the debris removed from the nectar to pass into the bee’s alimentary canal and into the intestines where it is first stored then later voided from the rectum. From time to time people get alarmed about a phenomenon referred to as “yellow rain” (Newman, 1984). When large numbers of bees forage on nectars that are laden with pollen, the rapid removal of those pollen grains from their honey stomachs and the resulting defecation by those swarms of bees can appear as “yellow rain” spots on leaves, cars, sidewalks, or buildings. Todd and Vansell (1942) conducted many experiments to determine the efficiency of pollen removal from the nectar in a bee’s honey stomach, which was noted during earlier research by Whitcomb and Wilson (1929). Todd and Vansell goals included determination of the effectiveness of pollen removal from the honey stomach, the duration of the removal process, and the equality of pollen removal by the filtering process of a bee’s honey stopper. In one experiment, honeybees in a caged laboratory hive were fed only diluted, unifloral star thistle (Centaurea sp.) honey that had been produced by other honeybees foraging in the wild…” Best Wishes, Joe -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:37:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: Size of AFB spores In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >This is a most interesting article and worth every one's reading time >THE R-VALUES OF HONEY: POLLEN COEFFICIENTS >http://www.nhb.org/download/research/rvalue.pdf > >The following sentence contains an error, however, "This process filters >the nectar and >removes debris such as pollen grains and the fungal spores that cause foul >brood." American Foulbrood is caused by a bacterium, not a fungus. Malcolm T. Sanford Professor Emeritus, University of Florida http://beeactor.vze.com 352-336-9744 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:46:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Size of AFB spores Comments: To: "Dr. Malcolm T. Sanford" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Malcolm T. Sanford wrote: >>THE R-VALUES OF HONEY: POLLEN COEFFICIENTS >>http://www.nhb.org/download/research/rvalue.pdf >American Foulbrood is caused by a bacterium, not a fungus. Thanks Malcolm for the correction! It blew right by me,,, I forwarded this to Gretchen D. Jones United States Department of Agriculture, ARS so they can correct the error in the document. Best Wishes Joe -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:20:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Adrian M. Wenner" Subject: Bees in grave danger In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear BEE-L subscribers, The positive response to my offer to provide copies of a recent New York Times article about honey was most gratifying. Now, another extensive article of potential interest to beekeeprs has appeared (THE VANISHING, by Sharon Levy). That 8-page article appeared in the summer 2006 issue of ONEARTH (volume 28, number 2), a publication of THE NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL (NRDC, for short). The article features Jeff Anderson and his operation and dwells at length on all the troubles faced by present-day beekeepers. Jeff was one of the principals of the Minnesota suit about the use of Sevin. That article will not likely be on line for quite some time (judging from past situations). However one can order a copy of that summer issue for $5 from NRDC: 40 West 20th St., New York, NY 10011. Just a thought. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm “The more persuasive the evidence against a belief, the more virtuous it is deemed to persist in it.” Robert Park — 2000 (Voodoo Science) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 07:58:03 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Bees in grave danger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I went to the NRDC web page and the Summer 2006 issue has not yet been posted onto it. Ruary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian M. Wenner" > > extensive article of potential interest to beekeeprs has appeared (THE > VANISHING, by Sharon Levy). That 8-page article appeared in the summer > 2006 issue of ONEARTH (volume 28, number 2), a publication of THE NATURAL > RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL (NRDC, for short). -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:26:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith Subject: Re: Bees in grave danger In-Reply-To: <6f81aae01d6f7c030354114f5270a102@lifesci.ucsb.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From this Klamath Basin resident (www.klamathbasincrisis.org); Far be it for me to be onerous, and with great respect for Dr. Wenner; It will be a cold day in hell for the NRCS to (knowingly) get a dime from me! -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:15:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Smoker Fuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings! I supposed this has come up before, but does anyone want to talk about unusual smoker fuels? I know about some non-standard or local ones like horse manure and sumac bobs. Personally, I used to use eucaplyptus leaves exclusively for many years. Very fragrant. White pine needles are also excellent and smell good. The worst I ever saw was the practice of burning burlap and once it's going good, pour in a little used crankcase oil. Sure, it makes a cool thick smoke, but what a terrible smell -- not to mention carcinogens Peter Borst -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:04:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a weird smoker fuel re rolled toilet paper. Rerolling the paper makes it slightly looser and burns a little better. But not real fast either. Make sure it's an extra roll. Russ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:27:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cal French Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:15 PM 6/18/2006 -0400, Peter Borst wrote: >Greetings! > >I supposed this has come up before, but does anyone want to talk about >unusual smoker fuels? Not particularly. Dry pine needles work fine. Depends upon how much work needs to be done. Big worry for me in Calif. is starting a fire, so I clear to bare dirt around the boxes and set the smoker on a board or rock. When it's over 90 with 20% humidity and a breeze, a fire could start with a small spark. . Best of work early in the morning after first light or in the evening when some workers are still out, although many are clustered all over the entrance side of the boxes. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:27:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings Peter et al: I have my concerns with what people have used to create smoke especially toxic smoke. So what isn't toxic? That's the point that should be discussed. One friend recently helped me and we used almost no smoke just gentle handling. I know another who smokes the bees so much that he should be in the business of smoked meat. Smoke leaves residues and can stay in wax . I've even tasted honey that was smokey in flavor because too much was used on the supers. So what was I eating? Another fellow I know uses punky wood and that smokes really well but what's in that smoke? I've resorted to starting the smoker through a hole in the side with a turbo torch . What I burn is hardwood granules used for smoking meat along with alfalfa cubes . It's a cool smoke and once the thing gets going (that's why the turbo) she keeps on burning but I get a lot of creosote build up. Walter Ontario -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:19:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 07:15:13PM -0400, Peter Borst wrote: > I supposed this has come up before, but does anyone want to talk about > unusual smoker fuels? I know about some non-standard or local ones like > horse manure and sumac bobs. Where I live, here in Ireland, local bee keepers have stopped using smokers altogether. We find that a squirt of very dilute syrup is every bit as effective and much less hassle. Joe -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:37:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: cannot understand Cu wax melter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please, I have just bought a very old soldered copper wax melter/filter and I cannot understand how it works ! It is difficult for me to describe this without diagrams, but: It apparently consists of a water jacket around a central cylinder. At the bottom of the inner cylinder there there is a gate valve leading to the outside, much like a honey valve. At the bottom of the outer cylinder there are _two_ valves, one a ball valve, the other a wing nut-type plug. The latter is very tight and I do not want to force it open, so I do not know if it is working. On the outside of the outer cylinder there is an iron plumbing fitting unthreaded, obviously for adding water. The top is open. On the outside there is a vertical glass tube, obviously to show the height of some water, but definitely not the water in the inner cylinder. Into the bottom of the apparatus there is fitted an electric heating element. I do not want to power this up unless I am sure that it is covered with water inside. Now for the puzzle: When I try to add water via the iron fitting, it is reluctant to go in ! The water level in the glass tube does rise, but very slowly and falls back down again when I remove the feed ! If I force water in it squirts out through fine leaks from the seam between the inner and outer coppers, with the water level in the glass still very low ! (This seam is soldered in only one spot.) I am beginning to conclude that this is not just a plain water jacket between two cylinders. Might there be copper tubes in there ? Does this kit sound familiar to anyone ? Puzzled. Joe. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:37:45 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used to use donkey droppings, when they used to be common here and = much to the amusement of the locals - this eccentric Englishman that was = going around after the donkeys and picking up their excreta. Over the = past 30 years though they have become rarer and rarer as the locals have = become more affluent and now ride around on motorcycles or in Mercedes = cars (these are the ones that had donkey fields near the sea!) So we = now just use dry pine needles. Maybe the high fuel prices will see an = upsurge in the donkey population - I hope so!! Best regards Roger White Superbee bees Cyprus. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:36:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I sometimes add some Pineapple Mayweed to the smoker which smells pleasant. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:38:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recycled paper/cardboard egg trays burn well. The scent isn't particularly attractive, but a small piece can be used as tinder to enflame something that is better but a reluctant starter. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:31:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David Croteau Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have stopped using smoke when nectar is coming in & even in the fall, = provided I ware a veil. I think the bees get a little more excited, even = so, I seldom get sting. If I have testy bees, smoke doesn't help much, = that's when you need a veil. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Walter Zimmermann=20 To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu=20 Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Smoker Fuel Greetings Peter et al: I have my concerns with what people have used to create smoke = especially =20 toxic smoke. =20 -- Visit = www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for = rules, FAQ and other info --- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:05:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20060618171951.0390c5a0@inmail.tcsn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cal French wrote:Big worry for me in Calif. is starting a fire, so I clear to bare dirt around the boxes and set the smoker on a board or rock. I use a 50 caliber ammo box for my smoker container. I use the lid to place the smoker on when I'm lighting it. I keep all my smoker materials in the box and when I'm finished I place the smoker in the ammo box, lock the lid down, and the fire is contained and suffocated in the box. It's really handy. Can place it just about anywhere and don't have to worry about smoke fumes, even in a car with the windows rolled up and A/C turned on. Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:59:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Subject: Re: cannot understand Cu wax melter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, I think what's happening is ...., when you try to put water in the top, the displaced air is trying to come out the same hole you are trying to put the water into. Try hooking the water hose onto the ball valve and let the upper pipe act as a vent. As far as the leak goes, you'll probably have to solder the seam. Depending on where the tank was stored, some critters may have made a nest inside the water jacket. By hooking up the hose to the ball valve, you should be able to flush out the inner jacket pretty easily. Water should also come out the heating element hole too. You might try forcing water in that way also. Good luck TxBeeFarmer West Texas Zone 7b -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:44:11 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: spring queens to Ireland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please, I would like to import mated queens to Ireland from the US next spring. Might this be possible ? Is there a region in the US where young mated Queens will be available, in March say ? Who can I approach about this and what might be the cost and practicalities of shipping ? Thanks ____________________ Joe Mc Cool Snark, currently Shannon Harbour 028 37548074, 07802572441 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:23:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Greg Kendall Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Where I live the 1st choice fuel is Redwood duff. Handy, plentiful, cheap, lights about the same as other conifer droppings, smoke smells no worse than others. Greg Kendall gkendall@sonic.net Pilot, beekeeper, packet hacker, gentleman rancher. El rancho del gato muerto 38 24 28 N 122 58 29 W -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:44:06 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Typically, I can inspect a hive or two without smoke, veil etc. unless bees become defensive because they bothered by yellow jackets, bumbles bees and there is little nectar coming in. By the time I get to the 3rd hive, the bees start becoming defensive. I believe they smell the different queens' scent from the previous 2 hives on my hands... I will then light up my smoker using pine needles. I use smoke very sparingly since it can be later tasted in honey. Pine needles are abundant and free around here and produce a very thick smoke. The needles burn rather quickly so you have to refuel often to keep the smoke going. I mentioned to my beekeeping uncle in Poland that I was using pine needles here in the US. He felt the pine needle smoke was on the harsh side and irritated bees. He prefers to use linden/basswood wood chips. The smoke is lighter and keeps going longer. But it does effectively quiet bees down. I plan to try basswood chips as soon as I collect some. My uncle also said that robbing phacelia plants in your hands makes the hands smell attractive to bees. I recently got some phacelia seeds that I will plant this week so I'll be able to test this theory. It's been said on Bee-L several times that sumac smoke knocks off varroa although it seems to irritate bees. I am not convinced the benefit outweighs the smokey taste in honey unless only the brood deep is smoked with honey supers off. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:49:06 -0400 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Organization: Keith B. Forsyth Subject: Re: [WL] Re: [BEE-L] Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Both the American Bee Journal and Bee Culture have articles on smoker fuel. ABJ July 2000 p537-542 The Neglected Smoker by Carl J. Wenning A summary of this article is available on Apis Monthly Newsletter http://www.lists.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0011&L=apis-l&P=60 ABJ October 2000 p 803-806 Health Concerns Related to the Use of Smoker Fuels by Carl J.Wenning BC August 2002 Blowin' Smoke by James Fischer Available from the Bee Culture archives www.beeculture.com I am sure both publication have more similar articles, these happened to be handy. > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:08:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 19/06/2006 12:45:51 GMT Standard Time, snark@BENBURB.DEMON.CO.UK writes: Where I live, here in Ireland, local bee keepers have stopped using smokers altogether. We find that a squirt of very dilute syrup is every bit as effective and much less hassle. I often use liquid smoke instead of lighting the smoker, althugh I haven't done so since I have had a bandage on my thumb - the smell is persistent. However, the advantage of ordinary smoke is that one can to some extent herd the bees, eg moving them away from bits where they are likely to get squashed. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:20:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: spring queens to Ireland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 19/06/2006 14:54:48 GMT Standard Time, snark@BENBURB.DEMON.CO.UK writes: Please, I would like to import mated queens to Ireland from the US next spring. Might this be possible ? Is there a region in the US where young mated Queens will be available, in March say ? Who can I approach about this and what might be the cost and practicalities of shipping ? Thanks Joe, Talk to Micheal Mac Giolla Coda and his colleagues before you do. They may be able to find you docile queens more suited to local conditions and at a better price. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:58:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WVBA Home Page use to have smoker fuel contest. See which burned the coolest and longest. When the smoker burned all day we finally decided wood chips, pine cones were the best and easiest to get and use. Wish we did these contest again. Russ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:08:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Chris in Ireland. We have a product called Honey bee Heathy and use it. The bees still get smoked some. But not as much. This product seem to curb the mite problem too. Jury still out on that however. Russ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:29:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: spring queens to Ireland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In a message dated 19/06/2006 14:54:48 GMT Standard Time, > snark@BENBURB.DEMON.CO.UK writes: > > Please, > > I would like to import mated queens to Ireland from the US next > spring. EU regulations on this are set out in this document: http://www.defra.gov.uk/hort/Bees/Intertrade/index.htm Where it states: "The following third countries are known to be able to comply with the EU requirements: Argentina, Australia, the US State of Hawaii and New Zealand. Hawaii has been given a special derogation by the EU to export to the Community in view of its high bee health status. Imports of bees from mainland USA to the European Community remain prohibited." Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:16:20 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Fischer Alchemy Subject: Re: [WL] Re: [BEE-L] Smoker Fuel > ...articles on smoker fuel... > BC August 2002 Blowin' Smoke by James Fischer > Available from the Bee Culture archives www.beeculture.com Nope, Bee Culture magazine still has little or no IT support worthy of the name, so the archives are still a hit-or-miss affair. Not to worry, though, the cited article is here: http://bee-quick.com/reprints/smoke.pdf But the entire point of that article was that there is little difference between the various choices in smoker fuels, as combustion products and by-products are highly variable when a smoker is actually smoking (smoldering). If anyone is keeping score, I use a mix of easy-to-start pine needles and longer-burning shredded wood from a local mill that makes fence-posts. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:36:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel In-Reply-To: <504.ab6961.31c8861c@wmconnect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's my smoker recipe: 1) Toss in a small handful of dryer lint and drop in a match. The lint lights immediately. 2) Stuff a large handful of pine needles and puff a few times till flames come out the top. 3) Add a square (maybe 6x6 inches) of denim from old blue jeans. Puff again so these catch fire, and close it up. The pine needles and denim give off thick white smoke, but the denim is what burns the longest. They also burn up well so you're not puffing out ashes halfway through like you do with cardboard. And by the way, all these items are FREE. Although I guess anyone with more than my five hives might have trouble finding enough blue jeans to get them through the summer. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:14:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan&jan Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; reply-type=original; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You might be careful with drier lint as it may contain polyester fibers. Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC zone 6a -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:23:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: [WL] Re: [BEE-L] Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quickbee wrote: But the entire point of that article was that there is little difference between the various choices in smoker fuels, as combustion products and by-products are highly variable when a smoker is actually smoking (smoldering). "highly variable"?? read again , In his article Blowin' Smoke James Fisher concludes: So, no matter what you burn in your smoker, your 'clean, cool smoke' is a mix of superheated toxic chemicals and carcinogens that cannot possibly be good for you, your bees, or your honey if used in excessive amounts. Bottom line, easy on the smoke. It's nasty stuff. Just as in my initial reply to the request to discuss this topic: "I have my concerns with what people have used to create smoke especially toxic smoke. So what isn't toxic? That's the point that should be discussed." Walter Ontario -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:31:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Clear DayDoes anyone know where I might be able to get a Walter T. = Kelley Co 1997 coffee mug???? Lionel -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:57:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: looking for an easy pattern for kids veils In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At HAS four years ago, I saw someone had made a simple veil out of three or four metal hoops, two of them hinged together with thread, and all covered with netting. This was a basic but adequate bee veil. I'm having a home school group of kids come over to look at the apiary, and they need head coverage. I thought I could make the advance assignment to build their own veil. Anyone got a pattern or some photos? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:38:31 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Fischer Alchemy Subject: Re: [WL] Re: [BEE-L] Smoker Fuel > Quickbee wrote: That would be me ("Quickbee" = "Bee-Quick" = "The Guy who was James Fischer before he started keeping bees"). I wrote the article cited, so I'm not sure if I should debate the divergent interpretation offered, or apologize for the article being unclear enough to interpret in a divergent way. :) >> But the entire point of that article was that there is little >> difference between the various choices in smoker fuels > "highly variable"?? Yes, the byproducts of combustion vary quite a bit depending upon a set of factors that defy precise quantification, such as the moisture content of the fuel, the air humidity, how tightly you "pack" your smoker and thereby limit airflow, and so on. This variability "swamps out" the differences between fuels, leaving the choice of fuels to a less-complex discussion about what lights easily, and/or what appears to smolder well Since the combustion process itself is what varies, and the smoker fuels are all essentially cellulose, the fuel just does not matter as much as how you use your smoker, store your fuel, etc. > In his article "Blowin' Smoke" James Fisher concludes: >> "no matter what you burn in your smoker, your 'clean, >> cool smoke' is a mix of superheated toxic chemicals >> and carcinogens that cannot possibly be good for you, >> your bees, or your honey if used in excessive amounts. >> Bottom line, easy on the smoke. It's nasty stuff." > So what isn't toxic? None of it isn't toxic. Its ALL toxic! The mere act of burning and smoldering will create toxic stuff. There's simply NO SUCH THING as "non-toxic smoke". That said, there is no known disease called "beekeeper's lung", so while we certainly may inhale more smoke in a season than the average Boy Scout does on camping trips, it does not seem to be the source of any health problems, so we can all relax. I forgot - here's something else that might help put my view of smokers and smoking bees into perspective: http://bee-quick.com/reprints/smoker.pdf -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:03:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I left a large hay bale near the hives. I just grab a handful as I walk by. A little newspaper to start a fire then throw in a rolled clumb of old hay. Kent Stienburg Kingston Ontario Canada -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:01:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Apitherapy in Nigeria MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Gospel of the Busy Bee By Oluwatoyin Malik, Nigerian Tribune, 6/21/06 GO TO: www.apitherapynews.com To many people, the bee is a stinging insect that is dangerous to mankind and has no special attribute except the production of honey. However, this is not the case for Ayodele Ambali Salako, a popular apitherapist. For Salako, the gospel of bees and honey goes beyond eating and extends to treatment of various kinds of ailments. Ailments like migraine, cancer, obesity, diabetes, infertility, fibroid, fallopian tube blockage and all types of fever-like jaundice, malaria, hay and others are included in diseases that can be treated with apiterapy... -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:12:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Howe Subject: smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all- Being a gadget freak, I just bought a Younger smoker: a mechanical = contraption that vaporizes liquid smoke with a propane (or butane) = burner. It's new on the market and ain't cheap. See: = http://www.newbeesmoker.com/default.asp Has anyone used one or have any comments to make about it? I'll keep you = posted as to how it works for me once I've tried it. John Howe The Brooklyn Bee -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:28:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: [WL] Re: [BEE-L] Smoker Fuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >That said, there is no known disease called "beekeeper's lung", >so while we certainly may inhale more smoke in a season than >the average Boy Scout does on camping trips, it does not seem >to be the source of any health problems, so we can all relax. I was going to mention that, too. It seems to me that bee smokers fall somewhere in between campfires and barbecues. But all life is about risk, isn't it? I am certainly not going to give up barbecuing, not now that I have gotten so good at it. The bee smoker is worth its weight in gold, IMO. Not using smoke on bees is like having your teeth worked on without novocaine. Of course, it IS possible, and there are many people that prefer it. To each his own. But I think smoke is a humane way to protect the colony against much of the pain caused by our poking around in there. A few whiffs of bee smoke during the day is probably less harmful than the doses of bee venom one would get they didn't use smoke. Bear in mind, not everyone has the luxury of having one or two gentle hives to open on a sunny day. (Yesterday I was opening up dozens while the sky made up its mind whether to rain again or not) pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:04:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Timothy Eisele Subject: Re: looking for an easy pattern for kids veils In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060620175456.05310000@BluffwoodCreek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Rob Green wrote: > I'm having a home school group of kids come over to look at the apiary, and > they need head coverage. I thought I could make the advance assignment to > build their own veil. > > Anyone got a pattern or some photos? > I realize this isn't what you asked for, but I find that the head nets that you can buy to keep off mosquitos make very adequate veils, particularly if you wear a brimmed hat underneath. I gave up on the commercial bee veil years ago, and have been using these exclusively. So far, I've never been stung through one. Depending on where you get them, they can be as cheap as $3-$4. If you want the kids to make their own, you could just find one type that looks good, and use that to make the patters. Not only are they cheap, the head nets stop the bees *and* the mosquitos. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:43:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: smoker fuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Re toxic smoker fuel. Back in the old days, some used the oil-saturated innards of used auto oil filters. Really dense smoke, but probably more toxic with heavy metals and hydrocarbons than plant fiber. I know of one large beekeeper that has his crew use burlap soaked in used black crankcase oil. Can't imagine how he rationalizes it in this day and age. My choice; pine needles collected after the first winter wind & rain storm from slopes and curves on paved roads. The car tires fluff up the needles, and the rain leaches the oils. The resulting fluff can be forked up by the pickup load, lights easily, packs easily, doesn't spark, lasts a long time, and smells great. Randy Oliver Calif -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:34:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cal French Subject: Re: smoker fuel In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I spent some time watching a commercial operator who has thousands of hives work with his bees when he was into the honey phase and not the pollinating phase of his operation. He even dropped by my place and checked out my hives and bees. Anyway--bottom line--he uses very little smoke, just a little puff at the entrance--less than the puff of a cigarette smoker--and another little puff a foot above the top when he removes the cover, not even down into the hive, so virtually no smoke comes into contact with the open cells. Bees have extremely sensitive olfactory systems. Even the fumes from a smoker that has gone out will cause them to react. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:27:49 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8EFA49081 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SF1MMA014128 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0609C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 62334 Lines: 1538 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:24:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First frost has occurred here in south central Manitoba - not unusual! Extraction finished and the need to feed up the colonies for the winter is being started. This year - unlike the last two has me finding that the bottom boxes of the majority of the colonies are either already near to required winter weight - or just need a gallon to get there. Normally, 5 gallons of HFCS (at 18% dilution with H2O) are required to get them up to weight. Populations are good. Mite levels OK Queens present. BUT - a fair % have completely shut down brood production. Maybe due to the rapid finish of the Canola flow which was followed by a nectar flow from Alfalfa, Sunflower. All in a semi drought weather condition. Whatever - the bees appear to have put lots of stores down below, shut down brood production and have good populations. Since we are only at the mid September date - are the winter bees already there? If so, it will be a long time from now till next April when major brood production again commences. If not - there is little room for brood to be produced. Since only small amounts of natural pollen is being brought in (the bees have good pollen stores!) - and here is my question: - Has any body ever tried to use pollen substitute to start up late season brood? No, I am not worried, desperate, just inquisitive if there is this potential use. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 04:21:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Nematodes for SHB Control In-Reply-To: <000201c6d60f$02accb50$6401a8c0@bassettbob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Robert J. Bassett" wrote:Please tell us more about the nematodes you found for the hive beetle infestation. The developer for this line of attack on the SHB is Mr. Lewis Tedders. He is located in Georgia and, I think, would be happy to send you some literature concerning the program he has developed. Here is some of his sales pitch: >>Southeastern Insectaries (SEI) is a small company in Perry, Georgia devoted to the development of alternative methods and products for pest control. After nearly 4 years of research and development SEI has reached the final stage of producing and selling a new, exciting and highly effective product for control of small hive beetles. The product poses no threat to beekeepers, bee colonies, surrounding plants and animals and poses no risk of contamination of honey. There are no state or federal regulations required for use of the product and it meets all regulations required by the bee industry and organic producers. >> The product employs use of beneficial nematodes produced by SEI and developed jointly by SEI, the University of Georgia, and the Department of Agriculture. To apply nematodes they are added to water and poured onto the soil in front of each hive. Nematodes then burrow into the soil, search out, attack, and kill hive beetle larvae and pupae that previously exited the hive. Attacking nematodes consume the insides of hive beetles, where they also mate and reproduce. Each dead hive beetle then yields from 19,000 to 23,000 second generation nematodes that leave the dead beetle after about 14 days. >> The second generation of nematodes expands the search within the soil around the hive, killing remaining beetles or additional beetles that exit the hive. Still more generations of nematodes develop for as long as hive beetles infest the soil and until hive beetles cease to be a problem. >> This technique is a major control breakthrough for hive beetle apiaries! >> For further information concerning availability of nematodes and timing and costs of applications, please contact us toll-free at 1 (877) 967 - 6777 >> (1 - 877 - WORMSSS). The above is their sales pitch. Mike in LA Lewis Tedders SHB Nematodes (877) 967-6777 --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 22:44:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Peter & All, You got problems similar to this year in the Midwest. Old bees will not winter. You can only evaluate your bees for winter by brood cycles. The fact you have got plenty of pollen helps. I have never seen such a shortage of pollen as this year in the Midwest. We have been feeding pollen for awhile and we are weeks behind you in winter arrival. I can give you two solutions. Pull honey bound brood nests and replace with drawn comb and feed a gallon of light syrup (they will just store heavy syrup) to try and get a brood cycle (or two) in before winter. In cold climates you need 2-4 brood cycles to winter. If your bees are on 3 frames of brood right now you have got one. If 6 frames then 2 cycles. A cycle is 21 days. Count the amount of frames being used for eggs,larva and sealed brood as a cycle. Counting old bees will not work as they will not make it through the winter. Commercial beekeepers counting old bees to winter in cold areas are the guys which lose fifty percent each year. Many commercial beekeepers move their hives after the honey flow in the middle of the day to lose the old bees (which are doomed anyway). Should have been done (if the method used) 4 - 6 weeks ago by you in your area). Then adjust brood for winter. Take your winter loses in the fall. Maybe sounds harsh but your bees will winter better. You will spend less on feed. Why do you think all but queenless hives toss drones. Survival! A bit drastic but practiced by large commercial beekeepers. Maybe not possible for you but would be for me in your situation. When bees are not prepared properly for winter by commercial beekeepers due to not having the time ( northern part of the U.S.)the bees are simply loaded on semi's and headed to a warmer climate to finnish the work. For us maybe only 2oo-400 miles if a month is all thats needed. If a winter is needed to rebuild we go south of I 20 in Texas. I saw a similar problem as Peter but without pollen so pulled all supers and begain getting the bees ready to winterweeks ago. Now I will finnish extracting as all but last feeding is complete. While extracting for the next week or two I will be happy knowing my bees have been combined, fed both syrup and pollen patties and ready for winter. Every time I did the extracting and left the bees till last I paid a price in winter loses. Hope the above helps Peter! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 15:59:03 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Gormanston Summer School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all It is only a couple of months since the Gormanston Conference for 2006 occurred, but we already have advance details for 2007... This is because the accommodation has been upgraded over the last few years and so there are slightly fewer places available (320), hence the need for early booking so that you are not disappointed. To give you a flavour of what goes on, please visit... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormanston2006.html for a report on my experiences at this year's event. To help those that wish to find out more there are a couple of pages that I have added to my website... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormanston_summer_school.html gives an overview of the event and... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormanstonindex.html gives an index of reports, articles and programs on my website and other places. The Federation of Irish Beekeepers' Associations has issued a brochure that deals with the 2007 event and a web page facsimile of it can be seen at... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormflier2007.html and you can print out a reservation form by browsing to... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormreservation2007.html I hope to provide programme information nearer to the time of next year's gathering, but you can expect a large number of lectures and workshops to be on offer, similar to... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormprog2006.html Please ignore all previous year's booking forms and only use the latest one. I hope to see some of you there myself, I have already placed my own booking. -- Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 00:41:57 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: > Counting old bees will not work as they will not make it through the > winter. Commercial beekeepers counting old bees to winter in cold areas are > the guys which lose fifty percent each year. Many commercial beekeepers > move their hives after the honey flow in the middle of the day to lose the > old bees (which are doomed anyway). Should have been done (if the method > used) 4 - 6 weeks ago by you in your area). > Hello Bob and All Your thoughts were very surprising to me, so I had to write this email. Jovan Kulincevic - a leading person in beekeeping here in Serbia, says that we can't be sure that new bees are ones that will survive winter. There is a part of the season (in late summer) when colonies grow winter bees - and bees born before and after that will not survive. He even says that winter bees (ones that will see the end of winter) might be born at the same time as non-winter ones, and are fed with different food. Could you give your comments please? Our latitude is about 40-45 degrees. Best regards Predrag Cvetkovic -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:33:26 -0500 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <003801c6daaa$982b2e20$616c89d5@predrag> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> There is a part of the season (in late summer) when colonies grow winter bees - and bees born before and after that will not survive. This is true in all temperate climates. Bee turn the brood cycle over to raising winter bees meant to last longer and fly less, this brooding usually happens with the first frost while the cluster still has a lot of bees in it and before the let their numbers decline for winter. -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA http://beewiki.linuxfromscratch.org http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/OrganicBeekeepers/ mailto:scot.mcpherson@gmail.com . ` , ` ' .,';`,. ``. '. _/^\_ :;.,';`'.,` `., ' '`, /_____\ .:.,"'` /\_____/\ .,:`'" \###/.,';` -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:51:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, I have heard the hypothesis put forth by Serbia before. Without a trip to Serbia and seeing and testing for myself I can not say the hypothesis is correct or incorrect. Do bees feed winter bees different? I do not know. For myself its simple. After over forty years among the bees I have noticed in areas of hard winters like my area the old bees with tatered wings and shiny backs will not be around in early spring. Not rocket science. In short you need in our area 5-8 frames of bees to winter successfully. This year the bees quit brooding up for lack of pollen and we were left with 3-5 frames of old bees in many cases. In a cold winter those small clusters are usually found dead in an area empty of honey with heads in cells with a *hive full of stored honey*. After three decades of wintering bees (most of the time) in Missouri I can quickly tell by looking if a hive will winter. In my opinion stored honey is only one pert of the wintering scenario. Hive venting to prevent moisture is important as well as disease free and a good queen *WITH YOUNG WINTER BEES*. A close friend which runs around 4500 hives says you need four brood cycles before winter to get a strong hive ready to split in April. Two brood cycles minimum. Russian bees and survivor bees do not winter well in my area without my help for the most part because they want to winter on too small a cluster. If they get a strong fall flow then they raise the required (in my opinion) young bees to winter. Left alone they winter on too small a cluster for our climate. Even the Russian bees are getting pollen patties (real pollen) and a light syrup this year. I hate to clean deadouts (waste of my time and energy and sign of poor beekeeping) and try to take all winter loses in fall. I reduce down to the number of hives I think will winter and split back to the number of hives in spring I think I can without losing honey production. Unless I need a certain amount of hives for a certain reason I always follow the above rule. What race of bees do you use in Serbia and how do you prepare for severe winter? Do you top vent? How does your friend know for sure his bees feed winter bees different than summer bees? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 07:21:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote: >Many commercial beekeepers move their hives after the honey flow in the middle of the day to lose the old bees (which are doomed anyway). In 30+ years of beekeeping I have never heard such a thing. Many? pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:45:09 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Sucrocide. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I bought a bottle of sucrocide for varroa control 2 years ago and used it then per the instructions without apparent success in reducing varroa much. I am curious to know if folks out there have used it successfully. Please share your experience and id factors that made your use successful. Thank you. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:51:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Eric_Brown?= Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Many commercial beekeepers move their hives after the honey flow in the >middle of the day to lose the old bees (which are doomed anyway). > >In 30+ years of beekeeping I have never heard such a thing. Many? I spent some time working and visiting various beekeepers in New Zealand (mostly South Island) six or seven years ago, and I heard mention several times of beekeepers that practiced or had practiced eliminating summer bees after/with the harvest. Eric -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:13:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob Harrison wrote: >> move hives after the honey flow in the middle of the day to lose the = old bees (which are doomed anyway). Peter Borst queried: > In 30+ years of beekeeping I have never heard such a thing. Many? I'm going out on a limb here, but I believe Diana Sammataro recommends = doing such in _The_Beekeepers_Handbook_ (Sammataro and Avitabile). Aaron Morris - Wondering if my memory is that good? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:38:50 -0500 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Said: ...in New Zealand...(he heard) beekeepers that practiced or had practiced eliminating summer bees after/with the harvest. Well it makes "some" sense. It forces the bees to immediately re-evaluate their population and raise bees quickly. Since they are raising winter bees at this time, there will be more winter bees going into winter. I am not saying it's the right way of doing it, but I understand why someone might do it that way. I prefer to let the bees handle it themselves, but I don't move my hives around, or I move them as little as possible, because perhaps I have a new yard or I am not happy with a yard I already have. -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:11:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: walter weller Subject: Re: Sucrocide. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used sucrocide once a few years ago. You can have the rest of the bo= ttle.=0D=0A=0D=0AWalter Weller=0D=0ALouisiana=0D=0A= -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:01:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Peter & All, The method is quite common in fact but for years many aspects of large commercial beekeeping were kept secret. I don't believe the method has ever been discussed on any list before. Allen Dick pointed to the method in his article on "moving bees in daylight" published in Bee Culture years ago. Even pulling supers with bees if the load of supers is to travel a long distance to lower the amount of bees left in the hive after a honey flow. Maybe the methods seem crude to the hobby beekeeper but they are used in the commercial beekeeping industry. I have used both methods talked about but please do not call Peta! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. If we do not hear from Allen Dick before long we will be forced to pay the ransom asked as he must indeed be held hostage at some remote location. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:11:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Bees in Tree In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm trying to get some bees out of a tree. The homeowner wants to save both the bees and the tree. The entrance is about 8 feet up, maybe 4x6 inches. I checked the archives and got some local advice, and here's what I've tried: I wedged a hive body in a crook in the tree about a foot below the entrance. In the hive I put a queen with brood, some pollen and a frame of honey. I put window screen over the entrance with a 1.5" clear plastic tube about 3 feet long leading into a telescoping cover. Below the cover I put a wooden bee escape, the screened kind that you put below supers to evacuate them, so they'd find their way down into the hive but not back up. I covered most of the screen with duct tape to reduce ventilation in the hopes of encouraging them to leave the tree. I also wrapped duct tape around most of the tube as the bees in the tube were trying to get out like they do in the back car window. After 3 days I hadn't gotten anywhere -- I figured either they weren't going thru the evacuator or they were finding their way back thru. So I tried one of the small plastic escapes that goes into the hole of an inner cover, only I attached it to the end of the tube so there would be no going back once they came out of the tube. Next day there were a few more bees in the air and a few more in the hive body. I went back at dusk, in the rain, and found a few bees still flying around and a few hundred clustered on the tree screen. This would suggest there is not a second entrance to the tree, but it seems they're not too thrilled about moving into the hive either. Anybody got any suggestions on what else I can do to get them out of the tree? Thanks, Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:56:16 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harison wrote: > Without a trip to Serbia and seeing and testing for myself I can not say >the hypothesis is correct or incorrect. Do bees feed winter bees different? I do not know. Hello Bob and All Bob, you are welcome in Serbia. I've heard that bees might feed bee larvae in a cell next to each other with different food - one bees will survive winter, the other will not. I can't give a reference now, many of that was presenting to Serbian beekeepers by professor dr Jovan Kulincevic. He is quite well informed about German researches - I think German and Swiss researchers were very interested in that, especially dr Liebig from Hohenheim university. > For myself its simple. After over forty years among the bees I have >noticed in areas of hard winters like my area the old bees with tatered wings and > shiny backs will not be around in early spring. Not rocket science. Yes, it seems very clear, but not every young bee will be around in early spring - the old bees are not disscused now, only young ones. > What race of bees do you use in Serbia and how do you prepare for severe > winter? Do you top vent? How does your friend know for sure his bees feed > winter bees different than summer bees? Our bees are Carniolan only. For our conditions, colonies with 5-6 frames of bees winter successfully and can be good next spring. Colonies winter in one or two brood chambers. When wintering in two chambers, I sometimes remove few frames and make bees winter, for example, 7 under 7 frames. It is used especially if bees haven't got enough natural food and are not too much strong. Good honey combs and brood combs with good rims of honey and with pollen stay up and those that are without honey should be down. I feed bees to make winter stores as early as possible - usually early in August but I will try to have as much as possible natural honey supplies in hives. One or two year old queen is recommended. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, Kulincevic's words about different food are not about his own bees but about researches, counting bees and food analyzing. Sometimes colonies with less bees in autumn have less losses during winter and have more bees after that then colonies that were stronger in autumn. Except varroa, latent nosema can be a problem for wintering here, then old and non-winter bees, exhausted bees... Personally, I use upper entrances and the hives are without vents on inner covers. Beekeepers that have vents, cover those with papers or someting similar. Best regards Predrag Cvetkovic -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:06:20 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only to add: As I heard real winter bees can't be visually recognized. Predrag -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:43:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: OA and open brood. In-Reply-To: <004201c6d316$fb169420$428e6a58@office> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-35D25303 After the report of damage to open brood after vaporizing Oxalic acid, I decided to look for myself. Seven days ago, I began OA treatments, using a 12v vaporizer. First, I checked the brood.I marked combs with older unsealed brood, and combs with young unsealed brood and eggs. I then vaporized 2gr OA, with hive sealed. Today, I repeated the process. Before vaporizing, I checked the previously marked combs. I could find no damage to the brood. Most of the brood has been sealed, with what was eggs seven days ago, remaining unsealed. All the brood looked healthy. Now, to see if it works. I did an alcohol wash on several colonies, and will repeat a week after the final treatment. Mike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:21:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - ">Anybody got any suggestions on what =". Rest of header flushed. From: walter weller Subject: Re: Bees in Tree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eugene Makovec wrote:=0D=0A=0D=0A>Anybody got any suggestions on what = else I can do to get them out of the tree?=0D=0A=0D=0AAs some of the o= ld folks around here might say, "Le jeu vaut pas la chandelle." You h= ave already expended more time and effort than the bees are worth.=0D= =0A=0D=0AIMHO, there's no good way to do it. No way at all, despite t= he tales we hear and read.=0D=0A=0D=0AWalter Weller=0D=0ALouisiana=0D= =0A= -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 00:26:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <003f01c6db5e$09841e20$027d89d5@predrag> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have a reference somewhere on regarding the composition difference between "Winter" and "Summer" bees. Start again........... Have a reference regarding the composition difference between "Winter" and "Summer" bees. But time is not with me to deal with it. Shall be back to this in a few days. Please excuse the delay. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:56:17 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bees in Tree Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>The entrance is about 8 feet up, maybe 4x6 inches. I've removed entire nests through openings this size. The shape, size, and the extent of a nest is unpredictable but you can remove pretty much any comb within an arm's reach inside a tree. One needs to break up the combs inside the tree to a size that will pass through the opening... As one gently pushes the bees out of the way to secure a hold on a comb, one does get occasionally get stung on the fingers... Of course, that's therapeutic... :)) Use plenty of smoke and take your time. I've never had to 'cone out' a colony out of a tree but I am pretty sure you won't get the queen. And you have to make several trips. Another approach is to drill a couple of 1/8"-1/4" dia. holes about 12"-24" apart in the vertical direction on the back side of the tree and squirt in BeeQuick or Honeybee Robber. If you hit at the limits of the nest, you may drive all the bees out. Then you bee vac the bees and can cut and take out the combs. A tree will typically seal up 1/8"-1/4" holes without a problem. I place feral combs that have brood, eggs, pollen, and honey on an excluder over an inner cover. The queen and the bees go into the box below. As feral combs become empty - the bees will even eat out the pollen in a few weeks - I put them into my solar wax melter. To me, this is the most comprehensive way to save a feral colony. It's getting late in the season but, with feeding, you should be able to overwinter this colony. It's worth a try. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:09:47 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Predrag, >>Personally, I use upper entrances and the hives are without vents on inner covers. Beekeepers that have vents, cover those with papers or someting similar. Please describe in more detail how you do this. Also, do you use top insulation or wrap your hives? Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:18:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: Sucrocide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>>>I bought a bottle of sucrocide for varroa control 2 years ago and used it then per the instructions without apparent success in reducing varroa much. Waldemar, unfortunately the lack of efficacy you experienced is shared by most. However, it works great for spider mites in the garden! Really! Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:14:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Bees in Tree In-Reply-To: <20060919.055637.25474.836320@webmail52.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sep 19, 2006, at 12:56 PM, waldig@netzero.com wrote: The entrance is about 8 feet up, maybe 4x6 inches. > .... place feral combs that have brood, eggs, pollen, and honey > on an > excluder over an inner cover. > The queen and the bees go into the box below. Is there not an error here? How can the QUEEN get through the inner cover to go into the box below, and indeed, would these the other bees leave the queen alone above the Q excluder? Bob Barnett B'ham, AL > Waldemar > Long Island, NY > -- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:52:46 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bees in Tree Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob, >> The queen and the bees go into the box below. >Is there not an error here? How can the QUEEN get through the inner cover to go into the box below, and indeed, would these the other bees leave the queen alone above the Q excluder? When I said 'the queen and the bees go in the box below,' I meant 'the beekeeper places the queen and the bees in the box below the queen excluder.' Hope this clarifies it. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:43:02 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Predrag: > >>Personally, I use upper entrances and the hives are without vents > on inner covers. Waldemar: > Please describe in more detail how you do this. Also, do you use top > insulation or wrap your hives? Hello Waldemar and All If bees winter in one box, I usually put an bottom rack about 10cm (4 inches) high or similar, between hive body and the bottom board. My first five hives had slatted bottom racks 5cm (2 inches) high, so that idea was permanently interesting to me. The entrances are on the hive body, diameter is 3cm (about 1'' 1/4). When wintering in two boxes, the entrance is on the higher one. Inner covers are made of masonite, but I think about using wood or thick natural canvas. There is a hole for the feeder, not for ventilation. Yes, I use top insulation, some papers or styrofoam. Winters are not so harsh here, so we don't wrap our hives. Best wishes Predrag -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:44:32 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks Predrag. Do you have a photo of your set-up? >>I usually put an bottom rack about 10cm (4 inches) high or similar, between hive body and the bottom board. ... The entrances are on the hive body, diameter is 3cm (about 1'' 1/4). Do you mean your top entrance in the hive body is 3 cm diamater? Do you also restrict your bottom board entrance? >>My first five hives had slatted bottom racks 5cm (2 inches) high, so that idea was permanently interesting to me. Do you find slatted bottom racks help your wintering? Many many pounds or kilograms of stores do you winter on in your neck of the woods? Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:00:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by randyoliver@INFS.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. > > Anyone, I don't know if you've checked the TLV's (threshold > limit values of > vapor) of oxalic, but the vaporized gas is pretty hot stuff! > The TLV of oxalic is 1mg/cubic meter. For comparison, the > TLV of formic acid is 9.4mg, for acetic acid 25mg, for > ammonia 17mg, chlorine gas 1.5mg, hydrogen sulfide 14mg, > hydrochloric acid 7.5, benzene 1.6mg, and toluene 188mg. I > arbitrarily listed some dangerous vapors for comparison. > > If one is vaporizing 1.4g of OA per colony, and half of it > vaporizes, then you've created enough vapor to make 700 cubic > meters of air dangerous (that's about a 50ft square house!) > That's per colony treated! > > Am I being too cautious? There have been a number of formic > acid inhalation injuries and deaths, is OA vaporization in > the same risk group? The websites Mike referred to say it's > safe, but I'm curious. Anybody have a better handle on just > how dangerous vaporizing OA into hives on a large scale is to > the beekeeper? Will one good accidental breath kill or > seriously harm you? > > Thanks, > Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:33:19 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy Oliver wrote: >> Anyone, I don't know if you've checked the TLV's (threshold >> limit values of >> vapor) of oxalic, but the vaporized gas is pretty hot stuff! >> The TLV of oxalic is 1mg/cubic meter. Interesting stuff, but it seems that there is more than one TLV: TLV-TWA Threshold Limit Value - Time-Weighted Average: The time-weighted average concentration for a normal 8 hour work day and a 40 hour work week, to which nearly all workers may be repeatedly exposed, day after day, without adverse effect. TLV-STEL Threshold Limit Value - Short Term Exposure Limit: a 15 minute time-weighted average exposure which should not be exceeded at any time during a work day even if the 8 hr TWA is within the TLV. Exposures at the STEL should not be repeated more than 4 times a day and there should be at least 60 minutes between successive exposures at the STEL. TLV-C Threshold Limit Value - Ceiling: the concentration that should not be exceeded during any part of the working exposure. So which of these does the 1mg/cubic metre fall into - and how would we know the value to which the beekeeper was being exposed? Weather conditions at the time could cause very large variations, even where a standard dose per colony is being applied. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:58:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <006501c6dcd2$7bb462a0$98f06a58@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Edwards wrote: > So which of these does the 1mg/cubic metre fall into - and how would > we know the value to which the beekeeper was being exposed? Weather > conditions at the time could cause very large variations, even where a > standard dose per colony is being applied. It really does not matter. The issue is the relationship of OA vapor to other toxic chemicals. It is very toxic. I would not use it. I toyed with the idea until I saw just how dangerous it is. Whoever is using it with others is exposing the helper (as well as themselves) to potential harm and opening themselves up to a serious lawsuit if an accident happens. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:06:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: Bee Warning In-Reply-To: <20060911021146.28824.qmail@web51603.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dee asked: So can you go into more the origins of two haplotypes of the beetle in the USA......if not matching now? Reply: According to a paper published by Evans et al. 2003. Analyses of 539 beetles showed that the two haplotypes were originated from south Africa and irregularly distributed in the USA. The first haplotype was found in Southern Carolina and other states. The second haplotype was found in beetles from Florida, Georgia and North Carolina. I hope that this info answers your question. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:57:56 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Waldemar and All No, unfortunately, I haven't got pictures of that set-up. Yes, top entrances are 3cm diameter and yes, I restrict bottom board entrance to 3-4cm because of possible latent robbing. A beekeeper who is very big top entrances propagandist here suggests top entrances to be 3.5cm diameter. > Do you find slatted bottom racks help your wintering? Yes, I think it helps wintering, but a free space bellow brood box probably could be higher/deeper and I have only few slatted bottoms - the others are not slatted and are about 10cm high or are common bottom boards. I understand that slatted bottoms have some other adventages but I didn't unify my hives, it is maybe not too much serious of me. > Many many pounds or kilograms of stores do you winter on in your neck > of the woods? Yes, my bees are very close to a small town where I live but I think about moving myself and bees somewhere closer to the countryside. :) Best wishes Predrag -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:05:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Bee Warning In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Medhat Nasr: Analyses of 539 beetles showed that the two haplotypes were originated from south Africa and irregularly distributed in the USA. Reply: Okay we got two starting places in the USA you mentioned from S. Africa and two different haplotypes. From were in S. Africa may I ask are each from? Also with one haplotype now from from Australia, are there any more to look for also? Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:29:39 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <45119D81.1020905@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All > So which of these does the 1mg/cubic metre fall into - and how would > we know the value to which the beekeeper was being exposed? Some are concerned about Oxalic acid vaporisation producing a great deal of toxic vapour, but the point of the treatment is that the oxalic acid re-condenses within the hive very rapidly and coats everything in sight. Leakage will occur, but it will be a minor amount and the fine crystals will fall out of suspension fairly rapidly. If due notice is taken of sealing up the hive and prevailing wind direction, there should be very little exposure to the operative. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:26:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <45123F63.2000704@lineone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7AB74DC5 > If due notice is taken of sealing up the hive and prevailing wind > direction, there should be very little exposure to the operative. Exactly. I run 8 vaporizers. 4 are set up, and energized. Then the next four are set up. When the first four are finisher...2 - 2.5 minutes...the battery is moved to the next four. By the time those are nearly finished, the first 4 are removed from their hives. They have cooled off, and are no longer smoking. They are then prepared for the next 4 hives. There was a study published in the back of ABJ a year or two ago. Colonies wrapped for winter had a 90+% kill of Varroa. Unwrapped was only 70+%. So...the holes and cracks must me sealed anyway, for the vapors to work best. When prepared properly, almost no vapor escaped the hive. As far as making 700 cu ft dangerous...a 50 sq ft house...your not vaporizing inside a house. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:05:34 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>A beekeeper who is very big top entrances propagandist here suggests top entrances to be 3.5cm diameter. I don't like drilling holes in my deeps. I place a ~1/4" (0.65 cm) dia stick under the top insulating newspaper. The stick extends from the inner cover hole to the edge of the inner cover. I find that the moist air flows out of the hive well. I don't see mildew or mold inside the hive. The newspaper absorbs a little moisture along the stick but this does not compromise its insulating value. I do have drilled holes in some of my medium honey supers to help provide an airflow in the summer months. >>I understand that slatted bottoms have some other adventages but I didn't unify my hives, it is maybe not too much serious of me. I've read/heard slatted racks reduce swarming but I have not seen any comparisons with regular colonies. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: oxalic acid vapor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>>So which of these does the 1mg/cubic metre fall into Peter, I checked a number of sources, and I can only get a TLV for oxalic acid vapor, no one had a TLV-C. But the question I'm really trying to find out is: are we dealing with a vapor that can cause serious harm if one inadvertently inhales a single breath? Clearly the vapor concentration created in a hive far exceeds the TLV. Do any of the manufacturers of the vaporizers have info, or are they willing to demonstrate the safety of inhaling a lungful? Those I've asked just say "it's safe"--which would be the expected answer. My guess is that the first lawsuit against a vaporizer manufacturer for selling a potentially hazardous product will dampen their enthusiasm. Again, the theory sounds great for distributing OA in the hive; the practice is what scares me! Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:31:39 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: oxalic acid vapor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...the theory sounds great for distributing OA in the hive; the practice is what scares me! Accidental inhaling of OA concerned me, too, as did the need to purchase or build vaporizing equipment. Then I read studies that determined the varroa kill was just as good with the trickle method. Trickling is quick and easy. The equipment is a graduated syringe. One needs access to a gram scale to get an accurate mix although they've seen in Finland that doubling the prescribed OA concentrations does not seem to affect the bees or the queen. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:17:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: Bee Warning In-Reply-To: <20060921030548.93715.qmail@web51608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dee asked: >From were in S. Africa may I ask are each from? Also with one haplotype now from from Australia, are there any more to look for also? Answer: This line of research is not mine. I just quoted what is in the literature. Good questions, I hope some scientists out there is looking for answers to these questions. In my early report, I was reporting on investigation that was conducted by me to find sources for beetles found in Alberta. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:51:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: oxalic acid vapor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/09/2006 18:38:21 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.COM writes: One needs access to a gram scale to get an accurate mix although they've seen in Finland that doubling the prescribed OA concentrations does not seem to affect the bees or the queen. The concentration of the syrup seems to be more important than that of the acid. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:40:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <20060921.060601.10554.852279@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "waldig@netzero.com" wrote:I don't like drilling holes in my deeps. I place a ~1/4" (0.65 cm) dia stick under the top insulating newspaper. The stick extends from the inner cover hole to the edge of the inner cover. When I kept bees in cantral Indiana, I overwintered in two hive bodies and placed 3/4" blocks at all four corners between the inner and outer covers. These hives were on the west side of a barn and thus subject to the prevailing west winds. In the three years I had the bees there I never had a winter deadout. Maybe it was luck, but I am convinced that with the adequate stores and that vintellation, I never had a moisture problem during the winter and that put a lot less stress on the bees than if there had been less of an air flow and more of a moisture problem. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:24:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I reviewed the oxalic vaporization process with a PhD chemist I know well as a friend. I posted my discussion with him here last fall and it should be in the archives. Long story short a direct inhaltion is quite serious and could have permanent heatlh effects. He suggested I wear a NIOSH approved respirator which I do while working with the vaporizer. . What is more appealing about vaporization then the liquid trickle method is if you have hundreds of hives and want to wait for the broodless period you do not need to open the hives up in cold weather. The way I see it is if I want to use oxalic I need to get my hives into November and the broodless period. We are using apiguard this year (once instead of 2 treatments) to treat only hives with higher mite levels. The rest wait til November when all hives are treated with oxalic vaporization.. Its a bit risky in the sense you must rely on mite levels to decide what to treat early and what can wait. Weather here in Mn during November can historically vary all over the board. Can't see counting on being able to open a hive in November to trickle so I go with vaporization. If the weather turns real cold I can still wait for a break in the weather (mid 30's) and treat any time in early winter. We wrap bees here for winter too and thats another issue that makes late broodless treatment a problem and the trickle method impractical. I'd like to wrap once feeding is done in mid October and come back later in November for oxalic. So here in Minnesota vaporization makes sense, is cheap and in my experience works very well. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---