From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:25:52 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE434906F for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEr0Bt013917 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0606D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 99397 Lines: 2443 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:54:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: smoker fuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:34:14 -0700, Cal French wrote: >--he uses very little smoke, just a little puff at the entrance-- There are so many variables here that a simple rule is impossible. What kind of day is it? Is there a honey flow on? Is it a strong colony, are the bees defensive as a rule? Have they been robbing lately? Are there yellow jackets around? Can you handle the frames like a surgeon or are you an oaf? Etc. On a terrfic day working four frame nucs, who needs a smoker? On a crummy day, after the flow quits, and you have to tear a five story hive down to the bottom box because the queen is confined by a queen excluder (this is an increasingly common practice), you may need continual application of smoke. When I go to work, I have my smoker lit up to produce billows of smoke. I may not need that much, but if I do I want to be ready. I have a good line burlap right now, so that's what I use. Coffee sacks, if you want to know. But I was really hoping to hear about some more UNUSUAL smoker fuel. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:18:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob & Char Hack Subject: Re: smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But I was really hoping to hear about some more UNUSUAL smoker fuel.=20 pb Didn't think my choice of fuel was that unusual, but so far it hasn't = been mentioned. I use the inner bark of the birch tree (kinda punky and = brittle). It is a little difficult to light on it's own, but packs well = on top of burlap or wood shavings. Ounce lit, it lasts 3 -4 hours. One = top up when I stop for lunch is all that is needed for the rest of the = day. What lis eft over is used on top of the shavings the next days use. = Anyone splitting dry birch fire wood will gladly give you a lifetime = supply. cheers ... b -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:29:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 22/06/2006 02:36:33 GMT Standard Time, ccfrench@TCSN.NET writes: Anyway--bottom line--he uses very little smoke, just a little puff at the entrance--less than the puff of a cigarette smoker--and another little puff a foot above the top when he removes the cover, not I am normally a non-smoker but have on occasions used a cadged cigarette to work a hive. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:42:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: 1Q multiple drones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I am correct in thinking that the queen mates with more than one drone ? If this is the case then her offspring may be a hotch potch of characteristics ? One child may be aggressive, another one not. Surely the queen cannot "mix the semen up" so that her offspring will have uniform average characteristics ? I hope this question makes sense. Joe Mc Cool -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:45:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: sterilising used equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please, for years I have been sterilising 2nd hand equipment using a blow lamp, but I read somewhere that this is not really effective - particularly against AFB. So, what then do professional keepers do ? What is the best thing to do with frames ? Joe -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:47:26 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: disadvantages of MD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please, for large scale beekeeping, what are the disadvantages of the MD hive ? Here in Ireland, they are not very popular at all. Joe -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:22:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones In-Reply-To: <20060623074233.GA28460@benburb.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes she will mate with 30+ drones and that will give you a real hotch potch of variability. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 298 6261 Joe Mc Cool wrote: > I am correct in thinking that the queen mates with more than one drone ? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:05:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones In-Reply-To: <20060623074233.GA28460@benburb.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe Mc Cool asked about queen mating with multiple drones. You are correct that she mates with multiple drones. If I remember the research right, the average number is somewhere around 14 but that depends a lot on drone availability and especially on weather. She does store the sperm all in one organ so yes, it sort of mixes and you do get a mix of behaviors from a single queen's offspring. But there has been some recent research suggesting that sperm from Africanized drones "out-competes" other sperm and is preferentially used even among queens who have mated with drones in equal proportions. BeeCulture magazine has run some good articles on the topic recently. Mike Rossander --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:45:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: sterilizing used equipment Comments: cc: beefarmgfc@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit West Virginia in USA, is in the habit of sterilizing beehive equipment. But we use an autoclave. This one is big. Sterilizing like this does work. Russ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:40:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Yes she will mate with 30+ drones and that will give you a real hotch potch of variability. A variability in workers AND virgin queens that you may raise. If you ever allow your colony to make a bunch of queen cells which you will separate to produce many queens, you will see the color variation. I've seen virgin queens that were bright, stripe-less (likely from a Cordovan drone) and virgin queens that were very dark (likely from a Carniolan drone) - both from the same queen-mother. Color is a marker but it may not be a positive indicator of desired characteristics. You may get very similar traits from different- colored queens. You may be looking for uniformity in your bees but the variability helps the colonies adapt to variations in the environment and conditions. In nature, the colonies whose main patrilines have the most suitable characteristics for a particular environment are the fittest survivors that will cast the most successful swarms whose genetics will dominate in time. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:45:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones In-Reply-To: <20060623074233.GA28460@benburb.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe > I am correct in thinking that the queen mates with more than one drone ? http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/matingbehaviour.html http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/multiplematings.html http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/multiplematingevolution.html There is also a page on Mating Frequency... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/matingfrequency.html But it is busted, and I need to look into why. If you wish to know more about mating behaviour, you are ideally placed in Ireland. In a few weeks time, there is a week long summer school in Gormanston at which there will be more than three hundred beekeepers from all over the world, among them will be many experts on bee breeding and queen rearing, as well as experts in instrumental insemination. You will also get a couple of opportunities to see drone congregations at work. The course is open to all and the fees are very modest. The following links give dates, general details and specific programme as well as an application form... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormflier2006.html http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormprog2006.html http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormreservation2006.html This invitation is not just for Joe, but is extended to all beekeepers of any age, anywhere in the world. Any of you will find a warm welcome among a large group of like-minded beekeepers. The course caters for all levels from 'wanna be' beekeepers to those that have spent a lifetime pursuing the craft. I am one who has only kept bees for a thirty year period, but I have been seeking bee knowledge for the last fifty six years and I come away from Gormanston every year having learned something that I did not know before, I recommend it, it is an enjoyable way to spend a few days and sample a few dozen pints of Guinness. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:40:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: disadvantages of MD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 23/06/2006 12:02:36 GMT Standard Time, snark@BENBURB.DEMON.CO.UK writes: for large scale beekeeping, what are the disadvantages of the MD hive Have you got beekeeper's back? Do you want it? Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:44:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 23/06/2006 12:02:51 GMT Standard Time, snark@BENBURB.DEMON.CO.UK writes: I am correct in thinking that the queen mates with more than one drone ? YES If this is the case then her offspring may be a hotch potch of characteristics ? One child may be aggressive, another one not. Surely the queen cannot "mix the semen up" so that her offspring will have uniform average characteristics ? The stored sperms each remain separate and don't merge. If the queen mated with a dozen drones there will be a dozen groups of half-sisters in the hive. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 05:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David Croteau Subject: Re: "KISS" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable KISS, "Keep It Simple Stupid" You beeguys who have a simple way of keeping bees, have finely = thrown away the books and medications and are just helping bees do there = thing, try writing It down so I can do it to.=20 Weather it's as simple as over wintering nuc's, making splits or = what ever. -- Visit = www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for = rules, FAQ and other info --- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:28:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones In-Reply-To: <524.16648ef.31cdd6db@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris > The stored sperms each remain separate and don't merge. If the > queen mated with a dozen drones there will be a dozen groups > of half-sisters in the hive. Joe asked the original question in a way that could be interpreted along gene combination lines. Just for the sake of clarity... The individual sperm remain genetically true to the drone that issued them, but the storage within the queen's spermatheca is a mixture, however it is not a homogeneous mixture, but has granular clumps of identical sperm. As more and more research is carried out, we keep revising the size of these clumps downwards, the current thinking is that the clumps are of the order of a hundred sperm. This gives rise to the possibility of consecutively laid eggs being of the same patriline, but also that all patrilines will be present in a hive. There is no combination or re-combination of genes from different sperm. All drone eggs laid in the hive will be genetic clones of the queen, apart from very small numbers (say one in million) that might arise by laying workers, anarchic workers or thelytokious workers. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:59:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: sterilizing equip Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit for years I have been sterilising 2nd hand equipment using a blow lamp Joe, I built a hot tank 25 years ago to weatherproof and/or sterilize woodenware. It holds a deep super easily, and is filled with 2-3 parts paraffin and 1 part pine rosin, heated to 350°F. Temperature drops if you're processing quickly, but is fine down to about 250°F. The woodenware bubbles like french fries in hot grease, then absorbs the wax/rosin when you pull it out. I have racks that hold 10 super sides for dipping before assembly. I never paint anything. The hot tank treatment is completely weather and rot proof for several years (Calif) then back into the tank for a redip. Same for AFB equip. I've treated literally thousands of supers, lids, bottoms over the years. Would never go back to paint. Frames dip fine without wet combs or plastic foundation, but are a pain to scrape--I usually toss. Tank is relatively easy to build if you can weld and are handy. I can send photos if you wish. Uses element and Tstat of elect oven to heat. Little fire danger if not used carefully--I've got tons of experience (a little fire danger goes a long way)! Randy Oliver Calif Hot tank -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:59:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: "KISS" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-218223BB > You beeguys who have a simple way of keeping bees, ............... Simple??? Whoever said it was simple??? The things you mention are merely ways of increasing the odds that a beekeeper can be successful. It's still wicked hard work, and then you have to deal with a simple thing called..... Weather!!! You can simple...fy nuc making by using excluders to prevent the old queen from being taken with the split, or make a shaker box to help find runny queens, or overwinter nucs to give you replacement stock in the spring, or keep you off some breeders list whose orders never seem to get filled...but simple??? I don't think so. Just about the time you think you have the cat by the...tail...you get 4 or 5 weeks of rain, and your notions of simple fall apart. Mike in Vermont...still waiting for the flow to begin, after it has simply rained since mid-May. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 6/21/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:24:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: MRH Subject: Sterilizing equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I read in a scientific journal that soaking for various periods in high concentrations of chlorine/water solution destroys AFB spore viablity. Length of time depends on the concentration of the solution. Has anyone tried this? I have a big plastic barrel and access to swimming pool chemicals which are 90-degree (I believe that's 30%) concentration, so I could make up whatever concentration I want, and I am interested in trying this. One question I have is how to test for the level of available chlorine, which is destroyed by the organic matter that is present in any beekeeping equipment. As I use the same solution to sterilize one piece after another, I would need to keep the available chlorine above a certain strength for it to be effective, and the available testing kits (for other purposes) only test at a much lower range of concentration. I would appreciate any help with this. Marc Hoffman -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 17:17:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Sterilizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I can't answer Marc's questions, but have to wonder about the advisability of not burning the stuff. Can the risk of continuing an AFB infection possibility be worth the cost of new equipment? -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 09:53:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Sterilizing Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use honey i have spilled or otherwise made unfit for food usage for feeding bees at times..usually in small quantities. Will microwaving it kill AFB? John Horton Upper Alabama -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 22:52:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Re: looking for an easy pattern for kids veils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I realize this isn't what you asked for, but I find that the head nets > that you can buy to keep off mosquitos make very adequate veils, > Depending on where you get them, they can be as cheap as $3-$4. If you think your cheap,... I was at Wal-Mart and found black mesh in the fabric department. Two yards cost me $1.14. I cut it in half, on the sewing machine I sewed a loop across the top (curtain rod type) and sewed the two ends together. This formed a tube with the loop on one end. I fed 12" of elastic cord through the loop to hold it onto a straw hat. (also available at Wal-Mart) I ended up cutting about half of the length off to come down to about my chest. I usually bunch up the extra and shove it between the buttons on my shirt. All told $1.14 bought me four veils. I go cheap for myself, I make my kids and visitors wear the full battle armor. Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:15:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Re: smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > But I was really hoping to hear about some more UNUSUAL smoker fuel. I don't know if it is unusual, but I use wood stove pellets. It is a pain to get started, I use a propane torch. I "shut it off" with a wine cork in the opening. The half burned pellets start much easier. They burn forever. My small smoker, half full will burn over six hours. The smoker drips with resin and usually seals itself shut when cold. Another problem easily solved with the torch. I was in a contest recently. The little old lady next to me was burning hickory bark and pine needles. We burned about the same length of time but her smoker billowed all day. She won. :) Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:18:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: smoker fuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I don't know if it is unusual, but I use wood stove pellets. It is a pain >to get started, I use a propane torch. I guess they're pretty commonly used these days. I started using them about 1999 when I went to work at the Dyce Lab. We used white pine needles to start the smoker, and once it was lit, we added large handfulls of hardwood pellets. During damp seasons when dry pine needles became difficult to obtain, I started collecting burlap sacks to use to start the smoker. A small strip was adequate to get it going and then add pellets. The chief disadvantage of pellets is you have to buy them and a lot of beekeepers prefer to get smoker fuel for free. Also, they must be kept dry or they turn back into sawdust. Speaking of burlap, it tends to burn a little too fast when used alone. However you can greatly extend the life of a piece of burlap if you throw a handful of burr comb on top of it. The resulting smoke is very dense, cool, and seems to really put 'em to sleep. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:48:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: "KISS" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mike & All, >Weather!!! >Mike in Vermont...still waiting for the flow to begin, after it has simply rained since mid-May. Bob in Missouri still waiting for rain to get a serious sweet clover flow going! Dryest spring on record in our area. All beekeeping is local! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Subject: Re: Sterilizing Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, I would NEVER, NEVER, EVER feed honey that is suspect to having AFB!!!!!!!! If you cannot eat this honey, make sure it cannot be consumed by bees. Such as, pouring it down the drain to the septic tank or burying it in a deep grave is a GOOD way to dispose of it. Getting completely rid of AFB should be first and foremost with all beekeepers. Lionel -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 22:25:52 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Queen laying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Question: Do queens lay evenly through the day and night, or do they lay more eggs = during the day or the night? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:06:48 -0500 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Sterilizing Honey In-Reply-To: <001801c69886$b61a14c0$7d3f4945@D98T9541> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>> Getting completely rid of AFB should be first and foremost with all beekeepers. <<<< AFB in the honey is not the same as AFB in the brood chamber. It has little effect in the honey. -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:53:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Sterilizing Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Scot McPherson wrote 'AFB ... has little effect in the honey.' One should read that statement with caution. It's true that a = vegetative case of AFB in thre hive is far different than a sporealative = case of AFB in the honey. However, ABF spores in honey is still the = number one way that ABF is spread. The honey in a hive with a = vegetative case of AFB contains literally millions upon millions of AFB = spores. Robbing honey from an AFB infectived hive brings AFB spores = back to uninfected hives. It takes very few spores (5? - I don't = recall) to infect a larva less than 1.5 days after hatching. =20 So the original warning about AFB honey stands. Unless one knows that = honey does not contain AFB spores (and truthfully one cannot know for = sure unless tested) then unknown honey should never, ever be fed to = bees. As far as the original question, "Will microwaves kill ABF = spores?", I do not know but I would suspect not immediately or similarly = to how Cobalt-60 irradiation does. Surely microwaves will heat honey to = a sufficient temperature to kill AFB spores, but such temperatures will = likely render the honey useless for consumption either by humans or = bees. I'm not sure what was the intent of the original question, but = when I read it my initial reaction was, "Don't go there, you're asking = for trouble." AFB spores in honey is only a threat to bees, it's not a = concern for humans. If the concern is to remove the threat to bees, I = doubt (but do not kown) microwaves suffice. Irradiation will kill AFB = spores. Imported honey in some countries is routinely irradiated, in = fact MUST BE irradiated to be imported. I imagine if microwave worked, = importation laws would be different. =20 Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 17:24:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: K&W Jarrett Subject: Re: "KISS" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, Bob, Randy and all, Keep it simple, that's my motto, too many beekeepers try to chase that dangling carrot. The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill, until you have to mow it. Allot of beekeepers, in my opinion, would be better off doing a couple things good rather than chasing dollars and not capitalizing on all of them. As I've written here before on Bee-L , I keep a close eye on the net earnings, the gross is irrelevant, that's for those carrot chasers. I look for opportunity in a poor market, (the glass is half full &sometimes 3/4 ) if your not stretched to thin on your recourses ( time, labor $$$ ) opportunity will present it self. This spring in Calif. set records rain fall and cold, allot of beekeepers bees starved in the cherry& apple pollination. They couldn't even get feed to them it was a mud hole out here. Cherry go for about $15 per/hive, shaking bulk bees to restock them pays about $45 per/hive. Randy O, Sterilizing, I do a close version of yours. I use 80% boiled linseed oil & 20% mineral spirits, hot dip in a holding tank. But I have to confess I do paint mine. I use an oil base stain which lasts about 20 years per coat. P.S. Randy, sorry I could not fill your last bulk bee order I was burned out. Keith Jarrett Calif. Naturals ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Palmer" To: Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] "KISS" >> You beeguys who have a simple way of keeping bees, ............... > > > Simple??? Whoever said it was simple??? > > The things you mention are merely ways of increasing the odds that a > beekeeper can be successful. It's still wicked hard work, and then you > have to deal with a simple thing called..... > > Weather!!! > > You can simple...fy nuc making by using excluders to prevent the old queen > from being taken with the split, or make a shaker box to help find runny > queens, or overwinter nucs to give you replacement stock in the spring, or > keep you off some breeders list whose orders never seem to get > filled...but simple??? > > I don't think so. Just about the time you think you have the cat by > the...tail...you get 4 or 5 weeks of rain, and your notions of simple fall > apart. > > Mike in Vermont...still waiting for the flow to begin, after it has simply > rained since mid-May. > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 6/21/2006 > > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 06:49:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Sterilizing Honey In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE092108BE0F41@UAEXCH.univ.alban y.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-21B45B6 > It takes very few spores (5? - I don't recall) to infect a larva less > than 1.5 days after hatching. I think I read somewhere that the LD-50 for AFB is 35 spores. Correct me if I am wrong. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 6/21/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:52:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Mandarin Orange problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I have started looking into the Beekeeper/mandarin orange issue. I have spoke with a couple of the California beekeepers involved. I would appreciate any information California beekeepers could provide. Please email direct to me if possible as the case will most likely end up in a court battle. However California beekeepers I have spoke with seem to be leaning toward bowing down to the big money of Paramount and its billionaire owner. I was told he runs the second largest farming operation in the U.S. by those beekeepers. A member of my family is a high profile LA lawyer and another family member heads a legal team for a fortune 500 company. Both say the beekeepers have a chance of winning in court but say winning against a billionaire in California might be tough and costly should the beekeepers lose. I have spoke with David Barnes (Florida apiary inspection service) and it seems Florida beekeepers are facing similar problems. Loss of prime orange blossom Honey locations will hurt beekeepers and the industry. Thanks in advance! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:57:02 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Queen laying In-Reply-To: <000801c6989d$f3b28c10$9e9f6a58@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > Do queens lay evenly through the day and night, or do they lay > more eggs during the day or the night? Far too much emphasis has in the past been placed on sheer numbers laid, and averages over relatively long periods, rather than the rates at which they may be laid. This is further complicated by the length of time used, so if we divide up our day into three hour chunks we will obtain less information than if we use one hour periods and a whole day can hide all sorts of variations. A quote from David Headrick... "Apis mellifera L., can produce about 220,000 eggs during a 12 month period. This translates into 602 eggs per day, 25 eggs per hour or an egg laid every 144 seconds. These figures are misleading as they are averages that do not take into consideration seasonal variation and the rise and decline of population. In a rising population leading up to midsummer the rate may be 3000 eggs per day and I have heard claims for up to 5000 per day." My conjecture. I reckon the rate will depend on several factors like amounts of pollen available, amount of nectar available, how many empty cells available, how many 'jobs' are not being fulfilled in the nest, things like that, daylight hours available would correlate fairly well with observed annual population dynamics, but day length and temperature also drive nectar and pollen availability so which is the cause of the effect? Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:00:15 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Weather & honeyflows. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit After a cool & wet spring, I came back from vacation in mid-May to discover my hives had swarmed. I thought I had time but should have remembered that they would swarm as soon as the queen cells are capped over! I then set up my hives as 2-queen hives with virgin queens. 90% of them mated and started laying very nice patterns. [My young queens are restricted to single deeps and it's great to see entire frames covered by solid brood from top to bottom and from side to side.] Worker numbers came back to strength about 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately, the last 2 weeks have been dry - lots of idle bees in the hives. The rains finally came on Friday and continued over the weekend. Yesterday, during a longer break from the rain, bees were out visiting flowers everywhere. They even worked hollyhocks around the house... Catalpa is just about finished, basswood has started to bloom here and there. White clover can still be seen in many places. Goldenrain trees are starting to open up and clethera & crape myrtles will begin soon. I wish there were more of them around. The bees may still catch the tail end of the spring flow which ends by the middle of July for us. Most of the super frames are still uncapped. Later, Japanese knotweed and purple loosestrife, will sustain the bees but they're not abundant enough for a surplus. If wet conditions continue through the summer, goldenrod may yield ample nectar in August/September. It's been a strange season for me. It's great to see very strong bees again though. No shriveled wings and no varroa mites on exposed drone pupae. This May and the first half of June have been absolutely record for me in terms of calls for house colony removals... Especially in areas that historically don't have [known] beekeepers. It seems ferals are continuing to come back. :)) Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:14:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Sterilizing equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dilute your strong solution by a factor of (Say) ten with de-ionised water and test that, multiply the test result by (say) ten to get the real strength. Ruary > One question I have is how to test for the level of available chlorine, > As I use the same solution to sterilize one piece after another, > I would need to keep the available chlorine above a certain strength for > it > to be effective, and the available testing kits (for other purposes) only > test at a much lower range of concentration. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:46:00 -0400 Reply-To: janet.katz@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Janet A. Katz" Subject: Re: Weather & honeyflows. In-Reply-To: <20060626.090101.21868.220927@webmail61.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar: I was not aware the bees worked Catalpa tree blossoms for a surplus. Do you know if this yields a dark honey? And does anyone out there know of a reference to identify nectar sources by examining the grains of pollen in the honey under a microscope? Janet A. Katz Chester, NJ janet.katz@earthlink.net -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:23:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: Re: sterilizing equip In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Jun 24, 2006 at 12:59:28PM -0400, Randy Oliver wrote: > Joe, I built a hot tank 25 years ago to weatherproof and/or sterilize > woodenware. It holds a deep super easily, and is filled with 2-3 parts > paraffin and 1 part pine rosin, heated to 350?F. Temperature drops if So, this is effective against FB ? I don't know where I can get pine rosin in Ireland ? Why can't I use Milton - the stuff they sterilize babys' bottles with ? Thanks ____________________ Joe Mc Cool Snark, currently Shannon Harbour 028 37548074, 07802572441 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:33:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Weather & honeyflows. In-Reply-To: <20060626.090101.21868.220927@webmail61.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-14235926 > Catalpa is just about finished... Do honeybees work Catalpa? >Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 6/21/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 21:27:41 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Weather & honeyflows. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Do honeybees work Catalpa? Well... Here is a photo of a honeybee on catalpa: www.beetography.com/keyword/catalpa/1/25327336 ;-))) This site suggests catalpa nectar may be toxic and deter insects - http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-0031(198104)105%3A2%3C381% 3ATNDNTO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Y This site says catalpa flowers AND leaves secrete nectar - http://www.winona.edu/publications/treebook/768.htm This site says catalpa nectar is toxic to ants and skippers but not to bees - http://64.233.161.104/search? q=cache:dDwLK6GorbIJ:www.paripoorana.com/~jhilty/plants/north_catalpa. htm+catalpa+nectar&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6 Other sites say catalpa is a fair source of nectar and pollen to honeybees. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 23:04:57 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: sterilizing equip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can and it will kill those AFB spores IT GETS IN CONTACT WITH. That's the rub there is so much wax and propolis on woodwork that you cannot use a soaking chemical to kill all the spores. The trouble with using Milton to sterilise the metal work (queen excluders, hive tools etc is that the hypochlorous acid will corrode it. A coating such as the paraffin wax and rosin mix will coat the spores and prevent the bees getting at them. Neither is as good as burning and burying the ashes deep. Ruary > Why can't I use Milton - the stuff they sterilize babys' bottles with ? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:41:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: Sterilizing Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the info on whether to microwave honey to kill AFB. It certainly sounds like there is an element of risk there even if microwaved.. O K DOKEY Now, what about treating the honey with terramycin....for bee feed only. Brother Adams recommends feeding a light water-honey mixture when growing queen cells.. i have done it a few times with some of my queen growing hives and never suffered any side effects as far as I could tell. However I mix in Terramycin as I am feeding the queencell builders... Two questions: 1) Is the Terramycin a good safeguard in this instance against AFB? 2) Could a light Terramycin solution adversely affect the queens cells I am growing? Thanks John Horton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:37:16 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jo=E3o=20Campos?= Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello David & all, > The individual sperm remain genetically true to the drone that > issued them, but the storage within the queen's spermatheca is > a mixture, however it is not a homogeneous mixture, but has > granular clumps of identical sperm. Moreover, it seems that some kind of competition among sperms may exist inside the spermatheca, at least when AHB sperm is present: > All drone eggs laid in the hive will be genetic clones of the > queen I wouldn't choose "clone" to express the genetical relationship between queen and drone, because this word can easily lead someone to a misunderstanding. I'm not sure if the same occurs in other parts of the world, but at least in Brazil, a lot of people believe that all drones of the same queen are genetically identical. In fact, each drone just inherits half of his mother's genes, but they are "carried" by a random set of chromosomes, some (or all) of them having been "crossed over" with their correspondent pairs during meiosis, and that gives the queen a very low probability to generate two identical drones along her life. Best regards. João Campos Porto Alegre - Brazil _______________________________________________________ Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage. http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 22:04:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Mandarin Orange problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I was amazed at the number of emails from people wondering what I was talking about so will explain further. The July issue of ABJ has an article by Bob Krauter (editor of Capital Press Agriculture weekly) dated May 19 ,2006. A decent article on the subject. His main source of beekeeper information comes from Dave Bradshaw (California Beekeeper). I also spoke with Dave Bradshaw but a busy time for Dave. Dave was talking to me while installing queens! Dave has refused to move his 4000 hives back two miles from Paramount Citrus Clementine Mandarin orange groves. Paramount citrus has also threatened to sue the orange grove owner which owns the land Bradshaw keeps his bees on. When we last spoke Bradshaw has refused to move his bees and the land owner has not bowed to pressure form Paramount to make Bradshaw move his bees, However the orange pollination is over for this year. Beekeeper estimates are around 300,000 hives are effected by Paramount demands and beekeeper losses could run over a million dollars. I have made a few phone calls to California and will no doubt make many others. If the list knows of a beekeeper involved please send me his contact information and I will contact the beekeeper. Around eighteen commercial beekeepers are involved right now I have been told but countless small beekeepers could also be effected. I think the Capital Press article is a fair assessment of the situation. *Off the record* I have been told by a couple beekeepers Paramount has dropped the hard line it took in March and has helped a couple beekeepers find new locations. I have had no verification of the information from Paramount but have no reason to doubt my sources. Dave Bradshaw did Paramount Almond pollination last season but said never again but never is a very long time but he is upset which I can understand. Both sides have retained lawyers and are discussing a legal battle. The problem lies in my opinion with the Mandarin growers as they planted *new* varieties which were supposed to be seedless even when bees were present (like the old varieties) but WERE NOT! The situation of seeded Mandarin orange has became worse each year over about the last five years. Netting is the answer but the mandarin growers say a $10,000 cost per acre would be involved. Grafting a new variety just released is another answer but still very costly. Paramount has so far refused to talk of compensation for beekeeper losses from not being able to produce orange honey on locations their Grandfathers used and locations Bradshaw said he has used the last 28 years. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:29:35 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, Waldemar, from Long Island, N.Y., can I ask you please why there are no varroa on your exposed drone pupae, and if the lack of varroa is the reason ferals are coming back, why are varroa apparently also absent from other colonies now? Thanks very much. Regards, Barry Donovan New Zealand. Visit our website at http://www.crop.cri.nz ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 09:28:44 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones In-Reply-To: <20060627003716.48523.qmail@web34412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi João > I wouldn't choose "clone" to express the genetical relationship > between queen and drone, because this word can easily lead someone to > a misunderstanding. Sorry, wrong choice of word for that part of the relationship, the clone aspect is actually the sperm produced by each drone. All the sperm of a single drone are identical and are clones that contain all of the 16 chromosomes, there is no extra material available for crossing over to occur. > each drone just inherits half of his mother's genes But in the case of the queen producing the male egg in the first instance, crossing over can occur. This does not give rise to as wide a range of possibilities as you imply, the crossing over can only occur among the alleles that the queen has at her disposal and in the case of the bee many linkages occur that cause such alleles to be inherited as clusters or sequences which further limits the number of possibilities. This link may help those of you that have not yet got to grips with haplodiploid genetics... http://members.aol.com/queenb95/principles.html Another good reference is John Atkinson's 'background to bee breeding'. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:52:21 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Barry, >>...why there are no varroa on your exposed drone pupae... I've treated my broodless colonies in late fall with oxalic acid and have found it very effective. >>if the lack of varroa is the reason ferals are coming back... The return of the ferals and little varroa evidence in my hives are unrelated for the most part although I've been raising my own queens that with local drones for the past 3 years. In my opinion, varroa had reduced the feral colonies and now it appears the survivors are staging a comeback. The fact, that the feral comb averages 5,0 mm cell size, I believe, helps the feral keep varroa reproduction down at the end of the season. The smaller cell size is towards the bottom of the comb sections where the last generations of workers are raised before the winter. It's critical to a colony's survival to go into the winter with low varroa loads. The other factor may be smaller populations in feral colonies. Managed hives lead to greater brood rearing which provides varroa with greater opportunity to reproduce. And varroa will outreproduce bees if unchecked. This is in line with what queen breeders like Kirk Webster report. Namely, they are able to keep nucs without treatment year round but still often see untreated full size hives collapse. Kirk Webster selects for varroa tolerance among other good traits. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:01:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Queen laying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave My question arose because I am doing some queen rearing. I put a Jenter = box in a colony in the evening and by next morning the queen had laid = just 2 eggs! A day later and all cells were laid. I suspect that she wanted the cells polished a bit better (although the = box had been used previously, I guess that I should have put the it in a = day before confining the queen), but it made me wonder if queens lay = more during daylight hours than at night. I could not seem to find any = information on this anywhere. =20 Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:04:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, >The other factor may be smaller populations in feral colonies. The "live and let die" method of selecting for bees which tolerate varroa ( basically what has happened in true feral colonies) also seems ( my opinion after five years of research) to select bees which are less prolific and winter on smaller clusters. After years of research it has been almost impossible to find varroa tolerance to a decent degree in a prolific bee. The first thing you notice when you look at a yard of Russians or survivors in winter is small clusters (very small) and in early spring slow buildup (which is mostly related to the small winter cluster). I have been able to trick the Russians into a larger winter cluster by placing the hives on a strong fall flow but when I do not then small winter clusters are the rule which leads to a slow spring buildup for our area. The same has been true with all varroa tolerant bees I have tested. Small winter clusters and not prolific *for our area*. Perhaps in time through breeding a prolific Russian which is varroa tolerant will emerge. Maybe already has and I have not yet seen those queens & bees. I am supposed to get some Russian queens (25) to test next spring from a queen breeder involved with the Russian program from the start. From his best lines so maybe I will see *in my opinion* a better suited commercial bee for my area. Prolific is a must for those which keep bees for a living *in my opinion*but prolific does not help when trying to find varroa tolerance (especially late in the season). Others may see things differently but I have spent years with the Russian bees. If you are a hobby beekeeper then not a problem. If a honey producer or pollination beekeeper a big problem. Prolific and at least a somewhat larger cluster is what I need so although I still keep varroa tolerant untreated yards I have moved back to prolific bees which need treatment as needed. As I have said on BEE-L before I never dropped my prolific Italian lines while searching for a varroa tolerant bee! Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:41:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Queen laying In-Reply-To: <010a01c699fa$847a5040$9e9f6a58@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > I put a Jenter box in a colony in the evening and by next morning the queen had laid just 2 eggs! I think your surmise about polishing may be correct or just sod's law, I have used Jenter and Cup Kit boxes many times, but never found that there was any consistency in the time it took to get them laid up. I think some queens get turned off or just lay on the plastic, where the workers eat the eggs. I have known three or four days elapse and zero eggs in the box, by then they are so out of step with the rest of the timetable, you have to start again from scratch. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:42:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Queen laying Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I put a Jenter box in a colony in the evening and by next morning the queen had laid just 2 eggs! Do queens lay 24 hours a day? Eva Crane writes about sleep occuring in bees. Could it simply be a matter of the queen sleeping? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:47:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) In-Reply-To: <003801c699fb$0d899800$19bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob > The "live and let die" method of selecting for bees which tolerate > varroa... ...seems ( my opinion after five years of research) > to select bees which are less prolific and winter on smaller clusters. Maybe the bees are trying to tell you something about their needs for survival. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:52:25 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: design for a wiring/embedding board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please, where can I get a design for a good wiring/embedding board suitable for MD deeps ? I know there is a design out there that uses a cam to bend the side bars. When these spring back out they tension the wires. But does it really work ? Surely a lot of tension must be lost in the outer most wires due to friction ? Is it better to pass current through one wire at a time, or all in parallel ? Is it better to have the tensioned wires resting on the wax, so they "fall" into it once hot ? Or is it better to have the wax resting on top of the wires ? Surely there are small differences in the geometry of side bars, so I need some method of adjusting (up or down) the plane in which the wires lie ? No ? In the past I kept the wires taught by pulling them tight with a frame nail, but it is not very convenient. I don't want to re-invent the wheel ....... again ....... :-) Thanks -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:42:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: Zack Has BEE-L Login Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Posted on on behalf of Zachary Huang: Anyone near Columbus OH going to HAS meeting (Vincennes, IN)? If you are, I wonder if you can help me by bringing my artificial bee inseminator from Columbus (OSU bee lab) to Indianna, where I will be speaking. This would save the shipping costs (and perhaps it would arrive in better shape). Thanks, Zachary Huang Associate Professor tel: 517-353-8136 Department of Entomology fax: 517-353-4354 Michigan State University mailto:bees@msu.edu East Lansing, Michigan 48824 =20 http://www.msu.edu/user/bees -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:11:08 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...true with all varroa tolerant bees I have tested. Small winter clusters and not prolific *for our area*. This is what has been said of the so-called SMR bees - tolerant of varroa but not productive. I inquired about those bees with Strachan Apiaries a couple of years ago and they said, at the time, they were considering the SMR line for this reason. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:56:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Wasp King Subject: Anyone near Columbus OH going to HAS meeting (Vincennes, IN)? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If you are, I wonder if you can help me by bringing my artificial bee inseminator from Columbus (OSU bee lab, I forgot to bring it back aftre the short course) to Indianna, where I will be speaking. This would save the shipping costs, and more importantly, perhaps it would arrive in better shape. Thanks so much! Zachary Huang bees.msu@gmail.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:07:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: design for a wiring/embedding board In-Reply-To: <20060627175225.GA3785@benburb.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Mc Cool wrote: > where can I get a design for a good wiring/embedding board suitable > for MD deeps ? Here's a picture of my setup- nothing fancy, threw it together in an afternoon. http://www.sweettimeapiary.com/pics/wiring_bench.jpg > I know there is a design out there that uses a cam to bend the side > bars. When these spring back out they tension the wires. But does it > really work ? I have strategically placed nails in the board to put a bend in the bottom bar be it deep, medium, or shallow, which you can see in the picture. It seems to help tension the wires, but not much. > Is it better to pass current through one wire at a time, or all in > parallel ? I generally do one wire at a time with probes for better control and better embedding. Sometimes the vertical wires in the foundation short out the horizontal wires so I get better results doing one wire at a time, sometimes even half a wire at a time. I enjoy it, it's the best part of making frames, also the last step :) > Is it better to have the tensioned wires resting on the wax.. Yes. > Surely there are small differences in the geometry of side bars, so I > need some method of adjusting (up or down) the plane in which the wires > lie ? No ? I haven't noticed that. > In the past I kept the wires taught by pulling them tight with a frame > nail, but it is not very convenient. I tension the wire with a pair of round-nosed pliers (you can see them on the far right). Sometimes I use a tape clamp, used by surveyors to grip a steel tape (left of the pliers). Tensioning without snapping is the trick. George- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:14:53 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: design for a wiring/embedding board In-Reply-To: <20060627175225.GA3785@benburb.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT New Zealand's beekeepers use a range of frame wiring jigs, involving some form of compression of the end bars. My preference has been the cam that Joe Mc Cool refers to. And when used properly, wiring 3 wire full depth frames can progress at est 50 per hour without too much strain (so to speak...). More troublesome than any worry about the outermost wires is the problem of soft wood, and the wires cutting into the end bars (not many here would ever use eyelets that I have seen for the purpose). And my experience is that it is easier to put heat to all the wires (wire in fact - just one long wire...) at once, with the wire above the foundation, letting it melt its way down in, then maybe touching it briefly to finish off embedding any piece that hasn't fully sunk in. Nick Wallingford nickw@beekeeping.co.nz New Zealand -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:37:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Varroa resistan bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob Harrison stated in a previous email that : "After years of research it has been almost impossible to find varroa tolerance to a decent degree in a prolific bee." Bob, I would like to simply state some observations I have made: My best producers this spring(and it was a tough year in my area) were = mostly from Bweaver stock.. The queens and daughters from these queens = seem particularly fecund and build up very rapidly. In fact, they had to to get the April Tupelo here. About 30% of my hives have not been treated in 2+ years and are showing = good resistance to varroa. About 15% have not been treated in 3+ years..they seem to be no = different in populations/vitality than my other hives. My Bweaver queens have not been treated at all for varroa and show 90% + = survivability(against varroa) where there is an original queen- at 2 = years or more out.I base this observation on the total percentage loss = in these yards vs. other yards of stock I treated. (With supercedure there seems to come a varying weakening of = resistance..especially on the fringes of my saturation areas) 90% of my stock comes from the Rev Al Nortons//BWeaver. Als bees have = not been treated for about 5 years. they are remarkably gentle and good = honey producers..His mite levels in the hives I checked were almost = nonexistent-I went through 20 or so drone brood cells-not one single = mite after 5 years downline from the last chemical treatment.( Overall I = would characterize my bees gentleness as 6 of 10-5 being average, 10 = being meanest) (Al sold me his coumaphos strips a few years back) I have bees that seem to have higher mite loads in the spring than in = mid summer... i find that very very encouraging, (and I have observed it = on more than one occasion/hive/year).=20 I am on a the edge of a wildlife refuge and have selected from stock = that showed low mite loads...I have lost a few to varroa..i am not sure = how many...maybe 20%...but it seems that the percentage losses are = dropping- increasing my confidence in the existence of a productive = "zero treatment" varroa bee.. I am in a USDA program with Russians ,VSH, and Buckfast from Calvert = Apiary(which I feel are good layers-I worked Andys(C. A's) yards with = him this spring and his hives were absolutely bursting with = bees-beautiful) . "To the best of my observations", the queens I use are = competitive with these Buckfasts in fecundity and honey production in = this area. I have not run side by side tests-yet. I am not an expert, but i have a deep interest in breeding chemical free = bees....these bees are a work in process, and i hope not to run into any = "surprises", but I feel better about the whole process with what I have = seen recently.=20 My friend David Langley- a Jamaican beekeeper- came back home to = Jamaica(few years back) after varroa hit and found 295 of 300 hives = dead..the other 5 succumbed soon thereafter. This shows that you = definitely have to have the "raw material" genetically to select from. I have seen a hive at "meltdown varroa levels" pull through with no help = from me(after I forgot to requeen or treat) and produce a fair crop of = honey the following year. I am endeavoring to saturate my area with resistant stock.....300+ = hives over a couple hundred square miles....=20 These observations stated are true to the best of my knowledge.... I = would not trumpet them as exhaustive or totally conclusive. John Horton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:20:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: design details In-Reply-To: <44A2488D.20690.E6A76@nickw.beekeeping.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:14:53AM +1200, Nick Wallingford wrote: > some form of compression of the end bars. My preference has been the > cam that Joe Mc Cool refers to. And when used properly, wiring 3 > wire full depth frames can progress at est 50 per hour without too But, how do you stop the cam interfering with the middle wire ? How much flexing is necessary in the side bars - 5mm, 10mm ? Is there a sketch someplace ? I need to allow for 3 and 4 wires. Some of my side bars are pre-drilled. Thanks ____________________ Joe Mc Cool Snark, currently Shannon Harbour 028 37548074, 07802572441 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:56:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: > Prolific is a must for those which keep bees for a living ... I cannot understand why! I am currently raising queens from a DNA tested pure A.m.m. queen (belonging to a friend). After the most appalling spring - wet and cold all through May (when we usually take the best part of our crop) the colony has the best part of 4 supers of honey, i.e. about 90lbs. The queen is three years old and the brood occupies just 7 British National frames. Because the individual bees live longer there are plenty of bees. The colony is very reasonably tempered and I had no difficulty in handling it in cool conditions with light rain. I would be very happy if all my colonies were headed by a queen like that! I could also add that there are also commercial beekeepers in the UK making a good living from A.m.m. colonies. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:51:50 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Varroa resistan bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John, >>...mostly from Bweaver stock... About 30% of my hives have not been treated in 2+ years... How did you treat the other 70% for varroa? How many Weaver queens do you have and have any of those hives turned out *hot*? I've had hives go 2-3 years w/o treatment followed by an epidemic of shrivelled wings. I hope you continue to experience low mite loads. Regards, Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:30:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: > Prolific is a must for those which keep bees for a living ... Peter wrote: I cannot understand why! One of the first beekeeper sayings I ever heard has stood the test of time. "Fill a box with bees and the bees will fill the box with honey" There are many ways to keep bees and all beekeeping is local but the above has stood the test of time. In time of a strong honey flow you need bees to bring in the crop. Certain races fly earlier and later than others and are better suited for different areas of the world but prolific suits most commercial beekeepers. The reason why the Italian bee is the most used commercial bee in the world. I have long put up with the Italian bee not being able to handle tracheal mites *long term*. I have used Italian lines which may only need a treatment every few years and others which need a more frequent treatment. I test so I speak with authority on my Italian lines. No such problem with my Russian & Carniolan bees but the Italian bees out produce all other lines I have used and certainly the A.mm I started with. The Italian lines are so prolific varroa can be a problem in the first year made up *going into late winter* in my area. We have now got some soft treatments approved in the U.S. for both tracheal & varroa for which resistance has not risen its ugly head both in Europe & Canada so I am putting Italians back in the system. In the August American Bee Journal I have got an article showing the results of a large number of Australian queens I started on two frames of brood this spring. Six weeks later the majority of hives were on 10 frames of brood! Besides prolific the bees are gentle which you can see by the pictures. We worked three yards tearing the hive all the way down to count brood (not all hives but a few in each yard) and only received a couple stings. I mashed a bee and got stung on the finger and Terry Brown (Browns Bees Australia) got a lone sting. The weather was perfect but a honey flow was not on. Those are my views and may not be the same as others but BEE-L would not be a very interesting list if all our observations were the same. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:13:33 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob, >>I test so I speak with authority on my Italian lines. What is your current appreciation of the Gold line from Purvis Brothers? Do they come close to your Italians in productivity? Do they overwinter well in your area? Purvis uses survivor stock from managed and feral sources in their breeding program. There may be a good chunk of Italian genetics since the Gold lines are suppose to produce *large* crops. And northern Georgia is not an Africanized territory yet [as far as I know]. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:56:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bob wrote: > "Fill a box with bees and the bees will fill the box with honey" Well, we agree on that! But filling a box with bees do not necessarily mean filling the box with brood. The best of our A.m.m. will produce large numbers of long-lived bees from a small brood nest - and they overwinter on very little stores, so there is a huge cost saving on winter feed - certainly a significicant factor here in the UK. Italians here will need perhaps 60lbs of stores to get through a winter, whereas most of my colonies had around 12lbs of fondant last autumn (and would have survived on half that). A.m.m. work at temperatures where Italians are still in their winter cluster. The Italians also seem to be much more susceptible to disease (except perhaps chalk brood), more inclined to swarm and require a larger brood space (usually double brood). Given these differences in workload, equipment requirements, cost of feeding, disease resistance and overwintering ability, for me it is no contest. We also have the issue of temper: Italians are fine until they produce new queens that mate with local black drones - then you have problems; I had to deal with one such colony this week and, despite moving the brood box 30 yards away, I could hardly see through the veil, such was the onslaught - needless to say, that very yellow queen is no more! But, as you say, all beekeeping is local... Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:00:11 -0500 Reply-To: rgarrett@evansville.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Richard E. Garrett" Subject: Destroy Bees What would be a good method to destroy a hive of bees and not contaminate the honey the honey. Richard -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:15:36 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter, >>A.m.m. work at temperatures where Italians are still in their winter cluster. How are A.m.m. when it comes to varroa? What I also would like to know: is anyone keeping A.m.m. in the US?? In my neck of the woods, a lot of people have tried Carnies and Russians and seem to go back to Italians. Thanks, Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:02:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >What is your current appreciation of the Gold line from Purvis Brothers? I started hives of both the Purvis Brothers lines late last spring (100 hives). Too early to tell a whole lot yet. Purvis Brothers is a work in progress. Always moving forward. The queens released this year are not the same as last year. Next years will be different. Be patient and appreciate the queen breeder work going into the line. I am bound by a non disclosure ( 7 year agreement) with Dann Purvis and a retired USDA researcher so need to be careful what I say. I can say Dann Purvis just returned from an 8 day trip to Australia to set up a closed population instrumental insemination breeding program for Browns bees Australia. Also we have sent Dann a sample of every Australian line shipped in so far. Dann also received a few weeks ago a shipment of queens with Australian genetics he inseminated from Terry Browns bees while in Australia (around 44 queens I believe with genetics from bees from all around the globe including the Buckfast line). I looked at the queens when they arrived in KC but could not tell much through the cages. They entered the U.S. with a lot of 500 queens we received in KC from Australia and were then shipped on to Georgia by Glenn Davis. The Purvis gold line bee is the most varroa tolerant bee I ever tested. Once varroa tolerance is set then other qualities beekeepers want in a bee can be breed for. We need to walk before we run. Dann Purvis met with Denis Anderson while in Australia. Bee breeding is not an exact science. Takes time and hard work. In the U.S. we have got mass queen producers and only about a handful of what I would call queen breeders. We need people like Dann Purvis, Sue Colby and Marla Spivak! Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:35:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe bossom Subject: heating foundation wiring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable for those who use electric current to heat the wires that meld into = foundation, what current/amperage do you use, DC? AC? I have a mini = electro arc welder that was designed for melting hard silver solder, = (jewelry makers tool) would that be appropriate for steel wire? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:42:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: heating foundation wiring In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-72626AD5 > what current/amperage do you use, DC? AC? I use 6 volt auto battery charger. 12 volt melts the wires. Mike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 6/21/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 22:00:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: heating foundation wiring In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit joe bossom wrote: > for those who use electric current to heat the wires that meld into foundation, > what current/amperage do you use, DC? AC? DC. I use and old American Flyer variable output toy train transformer, left over from my youth. It's rated at 50 amps. I run it at it's lowest setting, I'd guess about 7-10 volts. I've used a regular 12 volt DC bell transformer but I've heard they burn out quickly. I've also used a small 12 volt car battery trickle charger, they work fine. > I have a mini electro arc welder that > was designed for melting hard silver solder, (jewelry makers tool) would that be > appropriate for steel wire? Might be overkill. Try it. I know even less about electricity than I do about beekeeping. George- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:49:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Heating wires. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use about 6V DC from an old DC power supply. I'm told a battery charger will work. Stay with DC unless you like action. Dick Marron -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---