From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:28:32 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2826349087 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SF1MMG014128 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0607A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 60256 Lines: 1489 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:40:33 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: design details In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE092108BE0F56@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The design of cam that I've used is quite thin, so it doesn't interfere with the wiring. I've seen a heap of other designs - at the most simple, just blocks or nails positioned so you can squeeze the frame into them. I'd say the flex is about 10mm for a full depth frame - it doesn't need much, as have pulled reasonably tight as you were putting the wire through, and you are flexing the wires with one hand while you continue to pull (often wearing a glove) with the other, then wrap the end around the tack to bang it home, and back and forth a few times to break off the wire. Release the cam, hold the frame to your ear and twang it to get that pleasant sound of a well-wired frame! 'Struth - one of the most boring jobs in the beekeeping world! I have a page with description - but seem to have lost the images. If I can find them, I'll post the URL. Nick Wallingford nickw@beekeeping.co.nz New Zealand -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:48:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: DIY apidea boxes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe & Lennard > However...they smell intensily like styrofoam. If this smell can't be > washed out it might be a problem. The styrofoam has to be above a certain density and hardness, otherwise the bees just chew it to pieces. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 09:21:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: bee and hive graphics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > where can I get free, reasonable quality, graphics of honey bees and/or hives What exactly are you looking for? (Really good artwork is generally not available for free,nor should it be) There is a wealth of material at: http://bees.library.cornell.edu/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 09:22:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: SMR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy, I can second that motion about the SMR's I have noticed on a few occasions where that 2nd or 3rd generation SMR is a like a volcanic eruption..and this coming from an almost miserably weak mother! My "feeling " was that the SMR behaves like a purebred(maybe inbred) line and that it would take a sort of hybridization/cross to unlock its potential. Brother Adams cites many examples of that sort of behavior. If you can find and verify that "magic cross" which causes that F2-F3 generation to perform powerfully- and create a new line from that, you would be doing all a service. Keep up the good work! And if you find the right cross tell me and I'd like to buy a few. One other point-my SMR's(now called VSH) that showed this most desirable behavior were near Buckfast and Russian hives. John Horton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Oliver" To: Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: [BEE-L] SMR Rand y Oliver wrote: > I've tried all kinds of SMR crosses, and most have been miserable > bees--weak > and hard to keep alive. The problem apparently is finding the right > cross. > Last year I had Glenn Apiaries make me a Minnesota Hygienic x SMR cross. > This was a magical combination!!!! (This individual queen, anyway--don't > know if it can be replicated). -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 09:29:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: SMR now VSH In-Reply-To: <001101c69d1a$57664af0$89e84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John & Christy Horton wrote: Randy, I can second that motion about the SMR's. I have noticed on a few occasions where that 2nd or 3rd generation SMR is a like a volcanic eruption..and this coming from an almost miserably weak mother! VSH - Varroa Suppresion Hygene - New name for an old trait? Anyway, John, think you are involved in the same study I am. I'm planning on raising some queens from this year's Russian that I got from Busby's Apiaries in Louisiana. In all probability the virgins will be crossing with drones from the yard that has all the bees involved in the study, the Russians, the VSH's, and Calvert Apiaries's Italian/Buckfast crosses plus all the mongrels that I have collected this past year. Should be getting quite a variance in the workers produced. Will have some control over the matriline but very little over the patriline. Hoping to get as many as 60 to over 100 queens. Depends on how much equipment I can construct and how much I can afford to do. Want to build up my colony numbers, mostly nucs, for the coming year. I do plan to keep close records on all my colonies so hopefully, if I come across some of these super producer queens I will be able to divert those queens into breeder queens and see what happens. Hope to see you at Alabama's fall meeting. Mike --------------------------------- Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 14:38:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: bee and hive graphics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > There is a wealth of material at: http://bees.library.cornell.edu/ Beekeeping, by Phillips, Everett Franklin, 1878-1951, is particularly full of high quality black and white line drawings. Once you get the hang of the interface, you can go directly to the list of illustrations, and from there go straight to the appropriate page. examples: http://tinyurl.com/f5bxa http://tinyurl.com/kh7fe pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:48:30 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike & Tina Subject: Destroy bees Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Soapy water worked fine for me, and I was able to harvest the honey afterwards and reuse the hive, although it took several applications to get all the bees. I didn't enjoy this, but they were a bit hot and I wanted to move the hive quite a distance. Mike -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 00:25:37 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maurice Organization: prive Subject: Re: VIP's in Beekeeping Comments: cc: deelusbybeekeeper@YAHOO.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mr. Dee Lusby and others, Please will find some Info about Dr. Prof. Ludwig Armbruster. I did'nt found anything in English. Hope You understand a little German. If someone on the List have more Info about Dr. Armbruster, please Mr. Dee and me too are very interrested Greetings from Belgium. Maurice ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dee Lusby" To: Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] VIP's in Beekeeping > Since 1978 is a ways back for most today.......could you go over a brief > history of this good beekeeper for all to know... -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:18:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: VIP's in Beekeeping Comments: To: Maurice In-Reply-To: <000601c69d5d$47319930$d56bc354@MauriceHasselt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maurice, Nice to hear from you. For information on Prof Ludwig Armbruster, since Brother Adam and him were good friends and his "Breeding the Honeybee" way back in the mid-1980s I think was dedicated to him by Br Adam, perhaps this would be a good place for others to start to look to find information written in english. Best Regards, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:17:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Mandarin Orange problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I am always running experiments and testing things people tell me. I guess comes from being from the "Show me" state. I sold the last of my peach crop today. Had a good set. I was told if you get a good peach set and the peaches don't freeze then almonds are possible even in Missouri. No almonds yet after five years but the sonora pollinator tree has not bloomed. My experiment started five years ago with non pariel almond trees (5). They are now around 10 feet tall and were loaded with blooms this spring. A couple hundred hives were within a quarter mile and closer (in the orchard). The pollinator tree a sonora was planted later on purpose. Did not bloom this year. I was up watering some new trees (not almonds)I set out this year tonight and looked closely at the five non-pariel almond trees. NOT ONE ALMOND! Almond growers have always said they would get about half a crop WITHOUT BEES. I don't think so! Or at least my experiment seems to show the non- pariel (most widely planed variety of almonds I have been told) will NOT self pollinate at all. Mr. Resnick's (owner Paramount )lawyers say beekeepers have really not got a choice but to try a court case or move bees the two mile limit. Refusal to bring bees into Paramount almonds might change Mr. Resnicks mind. Dave Bradshaw (facing lawsuit for refusal to move his bees back the two mile limit as well as the land owner of the land) has told Paramount almonds that he will not provide bees next year (he brought in around a thousand hives this spring). What if the whole industry refused to pollinate Paramount almonds? Bob Harrison thinking out loud. Bob -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:20:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Mandarin Orange problems In-Reply-To: <002501c69d7d$a2709d80$2abc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote: What if the whole industry refused to pollinate Paramount almonds? Bob Harrison thinking out loud. Think louder Bob. United we stand, divided we perish. Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 06:54:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: K&W Jarrett Subject: Fw: [BEE-L] Mandarin Orange problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello there Bob, > my experiment seems to show the non pareil will NOTself pollinate at all. Growers many times will run spray rigs with just the blower on to move the pollen around, giving nature a little wind power. Many orchards near a heavily traveled road WILL pollinate without bees, but growers won't survive with wind alone in a capitalistic market. > What if the whole industry refused to pollinate Paramount almonds. Bob, I don't know about your place, but out here you can't get beekeepers to stick together on anything .When I hear beekeepers talking about (the industry ) what part of 100 different directions were you referring to. I used to go to the oranges, but with out-of-staters dropping semi-loads everywhere its a tough sale these days, it's not much different than the cherry (too many bees with nowhere to go all in Calif. ). Bob, I'm not whining ,because I believe in the free market place, but beekeepers are not known for holding economic degrees. It's like the article's in the A.B.J. & bee suppliers , $150 for next years almonds, well you now know the out come of (writers and readers ). Keith Jarrett Calif. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:55:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Destroy bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:48:30 +1200, Mike & Tina wrote: >Soapy water worked fine for me, and I was able to harvest the honey afterwards and reuse the hive I don't understand: why would you not remove the honey first, and then take care of the bees? pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 22:57:56 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?QXJpIFNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Re: DIY apidea boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > The styrofoam has to be above a certain density and hardness, otherwise > the bees just chew it to pieces. density of more than 100 g / litre ( dm3) is needed Ari Seppälä Finland -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 22:29:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Destroy bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst > I don't understand: why would you not remove the honey first, and then > take > care of the bees? Or simply re-queen them? Or remove the queen and unite the hive to the one next door? Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:36:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: DIY apidea boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/07/2006 02:24:07 GMT Standard Time, lwpisa@HOTMAIL.COM writes: However...they smell intensily like styrofoam. If this smell can't be washed out it might be a problem Try lining with baking aluminium foil which might also stop them eating it. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:41:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith Subject: Re: Mandarin Orange problems In-Reply-To: <002501c69d7d$a2709d80$2abc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob--plant a Price almond tree for the pollinator--can harvest with non-pariel without problems. Good luck! Just think, expanded almond acreage, first, almost all of California, and now Missouri? The local experiment station up on the California border actually planted about 30 trees last year and so far it looks like they all survived our cold winters and springs--I think it is a root rot study though! -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:06:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Destroy bees In-Reply-To: <001f01c69e1e$890f5a10$79b26a58@office> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-55965C2 > Or simply re-queen them? Or split the nasty hive up into nucs, requeen them all, and use the nucs to requeen weak hives. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:38:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fw: [BEE-L] Mandarin Orange problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Bob, I don't know about your place, but out here you can't get beekeepers to stick together on anything . Makes beekeepers easy prey for those wishing to get their way. The higher ups in the California USDA say the beekeepers lack organization. The Almond board made a similar statement. I agree! Until a "John Wayne" steps from the crowd which can not be bought off and is not scared by the industry the others will cave in to Paramount citrus. "John Wayne" will need to make the beekeepers realize they need to stand and fight injustice and he will need to show the beekeepers goals and ways to reach those goals. Unlike the movies today's battles are solved in the courts and with applied pressure like I spoke of such as refusing to pollinate paramount almonds until Paramount citrus sits down with beekeepers and works out a workable solution for both Paramount & the orange honey producing beekeepers. Dave Bradshaw has said to me he will lead the battle. California beekeepers have said they will donate money or barrels of honey to the legal fund. Maybe Dave Bradshaw is your "John Wayne". His grandfather or great grandfather (not sure which ) went from immigrant with a couple hives of bees to the largest honey packing operation of its time period. R.D. Bradshaw & Sons Wendall, Idaho I am very familiar with the Bradshaw Honey history. I have on my desk a five pound unopened vacuum pack can of honey from 1939. Bradshaws Clover blossom honey U.S. no.1 grade Extra light amber If California beekeepers choose to fight Paramount citrus and Dave Bradshaw needs legal help I will donate the Bradshaws honey to be auctioned off at the January American Beekeeping Federation meeting in Austin, Texas with all proceeds to go to the Dave Bradshaw's legal fund. The can is in excellent antique condition and will only increase in value through the years. Some of the worlds largest honey packers attend those auctions and bid thousands of dollars to fund beekeeper causes. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 22:43:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Mandarin Orange problems In-Reply-To: <002501c69d7d$a2709d80$2abc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob writes: Mr. Resnick's (owner Paramount )lawyers say beekeepers have really not got a choice but to try a court case or move bees the two mile limit. Reply: Hey Bob, what is so cut and dry with a two mile limit? Our bees certainly fly further then that even here. I've noted up to 1 1 /2 to 2 for water in hard dry years and even up to 5 mile radius for nectar..........poor fly guts out bees.... Should 2 mile be set, and say at 2.3 mile you still get seeds........who would be at fault? Who is giving them specifics on bees as to what they can and cannot do, for it sure doesn't sound very professional info so far from what I reading. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 08:47:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 Jun 2006 to 26 Jun 2006 (#2006-164) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Waldemar Sorry for the delay in replying - we are in a heatwave with temperatures up to 31C yesterday (one extreme to the other!), the honey is pouring in and we have run out of all spare equipment - but we are not complaining after the disastrous May. Being inland there are no cooling breezes and it is a killer working in the middle of the day at present. 5 tonnes from 100 colonies is pretty good in my book, but Eastern Europe is noted for good beekeeping country - and some good bees. I used to move bees for pollination but decided that it was just not worth the effort as it usually means losing crop that I would have had locally if I had not moved them. The only migration now is 36 colonies (a trailer load) to the heather moors in August when everything is just about finished round here - and with diesel at virtually £1 a litre that is beginning to look at lot less attractive as the heather site is 160 miles away. We have just started a bee improvement group and are working at assessing colonies to select breeders. This has added to an already heavy workload, but I am sure that it will pay dividends. It has been interesting to show beginners the differences between colonies - some docile, some not - some quiet on the comb, some runners - some that follow for 100 yards or more, some that do not bother you even when working the colony - some piled high with honey, some that are (as Sue Cobey called them) just 'Welfare bees'. I would have thought that A.m.m. would do well in your more northern states but, like all bees, there are good and bad strains - you have to start with good stock. Then the problem is keeping them reasonably pure. If you have A.m.m. and youtr neighbour has Italians then it is quite possible that your will end up with bees that resemble AHB! Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 10:45:33 +0100 Reply-To: honeymountain@kilty.demon.co.uk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: james kilty Organization: honey mountain Subject: Re: 1Q multiple drones Comments: To: Ben Baker In-Reply-To: <20060623074233.GA28460@benburb.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Joe Our Islands' native variety of bee mates with around 20 drones, often less in poor weather, not that it matters too much unless it gets below about 5. The variety of characters works to the bees' advantage and also to ours since we get a good mix of genes and the consequent characters, such as hygiene. What one drone cannot pass on, another might well. see http://www.bbhoney.co.uk/ To your earlier request for new queens in spring, one of my friends and working partners is producing queens for sale both from Buckfast and locally selected stock. I have loaned him one of my breeders and my central apiary to mate the locally selected bees in. We are getting closer to varroa tolerance as we select, breed and replace each year and the signs are very encouraging. I will post some pictures of tray debris showing the remains of chewed out pupae (antennae, legs, eyes and so on) from the most hygienic stock. You will appreciate I am recommending for this part of the world, selected local sources of queens rather than from another part of the world. james kilty http://www.honeymountain.co.uk -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:00:36 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Fischer Alchemy Subject: Re: Fw: [BEE-L] Mandarin Orange problems > Makes beekeepers easy prey for those wishing to get their way. The higher > ups in the California USDA say the beekeepers lack organization. The Almond > board made a similar statement. > Until a "John Wayne" steps from the crowd which can not be bought off and > is not scared by the industry the others will cave in to Paramount citrus. Even a "John Wayne" type would have little impact. The problem is that there is always a sufficient number of desperate beekeepers who are more than happy to take what business they can, at whatever price is offered, under whatever terms are offered. Sure, it would be great if we could form some sort of a "guild" or "union" without running afoul of the anti-trust regulations, but even if such a bargaining unit were formed, there would still be more than enough undercapitalized, cash-starved, desperate beekeepers who would happily take what business they can, at whatever price is offered, under whatever terms are offered. Sure it makes me sad to see how easy it is for growers to play one beekeeper off against another, and see beekeepers engage in a "race to the bottom" in their desperation to service their debt and pay their expenses. The growers simply have more information than the beekeepers, and the beekeepers don't share much of any information, as they all see each other as competitors. Simply reporting (truthfully) the offers one gets, and the offers one accepts into a centralized database would be a powerful tool for beekeepers, one that might reverse the entire "market power structure" for pollination. I don't understand why this remains undone, given that there are several such reporting schemes for honey prices. (The Honey Hotline, Bee Culture, and ABJ are the best-known.) Exploiting markets is simply a matter of having more information than others. As long as beekeepers don't know what offers are made to other beekeepers, they will be victims of whatever games growers want to impose upon them. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 07:40:09 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike & Tina Subject: Destroying bees Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The original message was about destroying bees, and I responded because no one had mentioned this method. Unlike some here, I am not equipped to move a live hive easily. The recent discovery of varroa here means that I probably did the best thing for the industry by eliminating a possible vector, although the hive was varroa free when last tested. I also wanted to restart with less hot bees adapted to the local conditions. How many reasons do you want? Bees are livestock. Sometimes they must be dispatched. I followed the advice of the agriculture experts. I said I did not enjoy the experience. Can we move on now? Mike -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 22:09:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: pumping sugar syrup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please, I normally make up sugar syrup in a vat using a paddle. I am considering a pump instead. I can design a pump that will extract the solution from the bottom of the tank and pump it back into the tank from a height. I think this will cause sufficient agitation to dissolve the sugar ? Of course I will add the sugar to the water slowly from a hopper. What do ye think ? Thanks ____________________ Joe Mc Cool Snark, currently Shannon Harbour 028 37548074, 07802572441 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:45:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Timothy Eisele Subject: Re: pumping sugar syrup In-Reply-To: <20060703210905.GA25090@benburb.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Joe Mc Cool wrote: > I am considering a pump instead. I can design a pump that will > extract the solution from the bottom of the tank and pump it back into > the tank from a height. > > I think this will cause sufficient agitation to dissolve the sugar ? > Of course I will add the sugar to the water slowly from a hopper. > Sure, it will almost certainly work just fine. I'm a little curious as to why you want to do it this way, though, since stirrers are almost always simpler and cheaper than a pump (pump seals are a hassle, and often leak, which makes a mess). Do you need to have a pump there for other reasons, and just want to get double duty out of it? Or is there some reason why a motorized stirrer would be unsatisfactory? -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:05:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: pumping sugar syrup In-Reply-To: <20060703210905.GA25090@benburb.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, Don't know if this may help with your situation: When mixing HFCS with water, I just weigh down an air line into the tank, turn on the compressor and let the two liquids mix. Works a treat. How this may disolve the sugar crystals, as per. your situation - let me know if you try! Sure causes a lot of agitation. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 08:03:24 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: Re: pumping sugar syrup In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 04:45:26PM -0400, Timothy Eisele wrote: > Sure, it will almost certainly work just fine. I'm a little curious as to > why you want to do it this way, though, since stirrers are almost always > simpler and cheaper than a pump (pump seals are a hassle, and often leak, Hmmmmmm, yes. But mounting the motor atop of the vat is difficult enough. Surely the motor will run too fast ? I can buy washing machine motor/pumps for next to nothing. No ? Thanks ____________________ Joe Mc Cool Snark, currently Shannon Harbour 028 37548074, 07802572441 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 08:04:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: Re: pumping sugar syrup In-Reply-To: <44A986B4.6080000@mts.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 04:05:56PM -0500, Peter Dillon wrote: > When mixing HFCS with water, I just weigh down an air line into the > tank, turn on the compressor and let the two liquids mix. Gasp ! Brilliant ! Thanks ____________________ Joe Mc Cool Snark, currently Shannon Harbour 028 37548074, 07802572441 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 14:38:12 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: pumping sugar syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Mc Cool wrote: > I can buy washing machine motor/pumps for next to nothing. The impeller in these pumps is usually pretty flimsy plastic. If the pump gets clogged with sugar the impeller will shatter. Many years ago I used to use a Hoover Single Tub for mixing syrup. I had to put a bung in the drain down to the pump, add 56lb sugar, fill the machine (cold water), switch on for 15 minutes, then remove the bung and pump out the syrup. Now I use bakers fondant - no equipment needed, no mixing, no mess, no robbing. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 07:36:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: K&W Jarrett Subject: Re: pumping sugar syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, Mixing & pumping syrup, We use old propane tanks, 5000 gal for the shop- 500 gal out in in the yards. Semi trucks fill the large tanks then we pull from that. We plumed lines to the bottom of the tanks for agitaors at 45degree angels to mix medications & fumagilin B.Cam-loc in 4 -2 inch(female) are on top along with pressure gauge and 1 inch ball valve to release pressure, the bottom has 2 inch and 1 inch for discharge. To push the syurp we close the breather valve on top to build presser in the tank, 20-140 psi will do the trick depending on how thick, cold, & how long of hose the syrup has to travel. We use the trucks air brakes to pressurize the tank with a 100 foot hose @ 1 inch dim.We can fill four gal. feeders in 30 sec.or 7 sec per gal. If you have to mix in a open top style tank don't over fill, as air mixing will spatter.We use air to pump, mix.& move. Keith Jarrett Calif. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:02:24 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Resmethrin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone had any experience with resmethrin which is sold in the USA = as Scourge. It is said to be used for spraying for west nile virus. It = says it has a short half life in the field. The reason I ask is that I have the opportunity to go to work avocadoes = and the farmer uses resmethrin. He says he sprays at night and I = wondered if overnight was enough time for chemical to become not a = problem to the bees the next day. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Coming to Apimondia in Australia in 2007? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 05:47:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Nutritional Content of Pollen / Honey Benefits Wound Healing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Nutritional Content of Fresh, Bee-Collected and Stored Pollen Compared Study: Honey ‘Has a Beneficial Action in Wound Healing’ GO TO: www.apitherapynews.com Nutritional Content of Fresh, Bee-Collected and Stored Pollen of Aloe Greatheadii Var. Davyana (Asphodelaceae) Phytochemistry, 2006 Jun 27 Aloe greatheadii var. davyana is the most important indigenous South African bee plant. Fresh, bee-collected and stored pollen of this aloe was collected and analysed for its nutritional content, including amino acid and fatty acid composition… --- Study: Honey ‘Has a Beneficial Action in Wound Healing’ A Comparison of Wound Healing Following Treatment With Lavandula X Allardii Honey or Essential Oil Phytotherapy Research, June 28, 2006 The increased interest in complementary therapies has led to the investigation of products traditionally believed to have a beneficial effect in wound healing. Two such products are honey and lavender essential oil. In this study a rat excisional wound model was used to investigate the action of Lavandula x allardii honey and essential oil, and a standard therapeutic honey (Medihoney)… -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 06:48:47 -0700 Reply-To: Tim Vaughan Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Resmethrin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor, until recently Resmethrin was what the California Ag Commissioner used to kill AHB. I had a friend who was a pro exterminator, and he also used it for bees, wasps etc.. Tim -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:54:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: peach tree swarming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit said to rub the leaves of a peach tree on the box and the bees would stay. This is interesting, Bob. When I tip prune my peach trees with my fingertips, I can easily smell the strong aroma of benzaldehyde on my fingers afterwards. As you well know, Benz is normally a bee repellent. I also have a peach that attracts swarms. Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:57:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Mandarin Orange problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Dee & All, > what is so cut and dry with a two mile limit? The books say 2 miles but you an I know better. >Should 2 mile be set, and say at 2.3 mile you still get seeds........who would be at fault? I have got quite a bit of information on my desk on the subject sent to me by Mr. Joe Traynor. Many factors are involved. Holding yards are the main Paramount concern and second large yards placed close to Mandarin orange *in bloom* to produce honey. >Who is giving them specifics on bees as to what they can and cannot do, for it sure doesn't sound very professional info so far from what I reading. Mr. Resnick (billionaire)has the final say. A very smart individual but lives by (I have been told) by the golden rule: "The man with the gold makes the rules" During my 31 years involved with the Teamsters union my path has crossed with many Resnick types. Reason works. The beekeepers and their lawyers need to present all the beekeeper points to hopefully Mr. Resnick himself. They will need to show what they are prepared to do if a reasonable solution can not be worked out for all parties. Also some possible solutions for the crisis Paramount is facing. Being a billionaire the cost of a court battle to get his way will not be a big deal. Beekeepers need to choose wisely the person to approach Mr. Resnick in my opinion. Beekeepers need to present accurate facts on their losses backed up by documentation as Resnick can check easily. Choose wisely the beekeeper lawyer! A compromise which benefits both beekeepers and Paramount citrus is the best solution. Paramount almonds has always been a beekeeper supporter. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:29:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: mixing syup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Joe I use a 55 gal drum with a motorized paint stirrer mounted on a welded frame on top. The propeller is about 2 inches (5 cm) across, on a long shaft. I fill halfway with cold water, and dump in 200 lbs of granulated sugar. Let it run 'til it's clear--about 1/2 hour. Works great! Cheaper than HFCS, and mixed to order. Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:12:25 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: mixing syup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy, >>I fill halfway with cold water, and dump in 200 lbs of granulated sugar. ... Cheaper than HFCS, and mixed to order. I like your set-up. Where do you get your sugar? I thought HFCS were cheaper. Waldemar (who buys his sugar when it's on sale at the supermarket :) Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 06:20:58 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Resmethrin In-Reply-To: <000c01c6a009$5be60970$979d453d@new1> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Quite some number of years ago now there was research being carried out in the use of Resmethrin as a means of killing colonies of bees. The attribute that made it attractive was that the bees died but not clinging to the frames - dropped to the floor, making recovery/cleaning of the equipment that much easier... Nick Wallingford nickw@beekeeping.co.nz New Zealand -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:53:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: pencaemawr Subject: Fwd: Re: [BEE-L] Resmethrin In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:02:24 +0100, queenbee wrote: He says he sprays at night and I > wondered if overnight was enough time for chemical to become not a > problem to the bees the next day. http://www.speclab.com/compound/c1045386.htm contains information on degradation which may answer some of your questions. John Burgess -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:47:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Al_Needham?= Subject: Wierd Bee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I received the following question via my web site - www.bees-online.com : I have a bee question that I was hoping you could help me out with. I live in central wisconsin and work as a field inspector for the government. Lately, in probably 3 or so fields I have run into one very specific type of bee. This bee has a light grey body and a bright yellow head. It is probably about 2cm long or so and 3/4 cm wide. Now normally I wouldn't concern myself with a bee, but these are very weird. I never see the actual bee before I hear it. As I'm walking through the field all of a sudden I hear this very distinct little buzz. It is different from normal bees and flies. Maybe a little higher pitch I guess or something.....well anyway, I can pick it up and distinguish it from other noises outside. So I'm walking along and I hear that little buzz and when I turn around, there is that bee! That gray bee is buzzing back and forth behind me. The bee buzzes probably 3 or 4 feet away from me and just paces back and forth behind me. The really weird part is that it will follow me everywhere I go! I'm sometimes in the field for a half hour to an hour and the bee will not leave me alone until I get into my car. It never lands on me and has never stung me, it just always buzzes back and forth always behind me. What kind of bee is this and why won't it leave me alone? I only see one at a time and have run across it at several fields. Can anyone on Bee-L help with this question ? Thanks, Al Needham -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:26:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: K&W Jarrett Subject: Fw: [BEE-L] mixing syup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy, > Cheaper than HFCS, and mixed to order. I'm paying .17 cents per pound for HFCS and .23 cents for 50/50 blend delivered. Can I assume that when you say granulated, you mean cane or beet sugar (surcrose)? I would like to know where to buy some at that price (below .17 ). Your freind, down the hill. Keith > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 04:50:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: UK Hospital Studies Use of Honey to Protect Cancer Patients from Infections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII GO TO: www.apitherapynews.com Christie Hits MRSA With Wonder Honey South Manchester Reporter (UK), 7/6/2006 Now in south Manchester, honey is being used to protect mouth and throat cancer patients from the MRSA superbug and other infections which are resistant to anti-biotics. In a worldwide first, the Christie Hospital is researching the powers of New Zealand honey to help mouth and throat cancer patients’ recover after surgery... -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:06:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: syrup cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Keith re: I'm paying .17 cents per pound for HFCS and .23 cents for 50/50 blend delivered. My suggestion is for us smaller guys. For those of us who can't take a tanker load, we don't have the option of having HFCS delivered! I know you pride yourself of your sharp pencil, so I've sharpened mine. Pick up cost today (in Calif) is 26¢ for ProSweet at 76% solids. If I dilute it into 50:50 syrup, that makes it 17¢/lb final cost. However, I need to add pick up costs: gas at $3.00 plus labor time for driving. Let's say for filling my 350 gal tank, $50 for gas, wear and tear plus 4 hrs labor at $25. That's $150 divided by about 4200 lbs syrup, or another 3.5¢ per lb. So syrup to my door, before labor of diluting is about 20¢ per lb for 50:50. Granulated sugar cost me 40¢ last I bought it (cheaper at WinMart), so 50:50 syrup costs me 20¢ per pound to make to order. I also have some trucking costs to pick up the dry sugar, and a little labor for mixing, so I must say that you're right--picking up 350 gal of ProSweet would be slightly cheaper--especially if the price of granulated sugar goes up. However, having a pallet of dry sugar in the barn ready to be mixed up into sucrose syrup to order (no granulation issues) is a point to consider. BTW, I've been adding a pinch of thymol to a drum of syrup--seems to retard mold and bacteria growth. Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:14:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Law Subject: Bees must go so tree can go. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I live in Brooklyn, NY and have a 60 foot Silver Maple tree in my backyard that must be cut down before an thunderstorm or hurricane knocks another big limb off it - all the big limbs away from the house have already fallen. There is a small hole it the trunk about 25 feet up with honey bees flying in and out. >From the ground, the hole looks like it's about an inch or two big. The tree cutters say that they can't work on the tree until the bee situation is eliminated. Any suggestions for solving this problem? -- Dennis Law ( aka Paul D. Law ) Brooklyn South Community Emergency Response Team Logistics Section -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:16:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: syrup cost In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-216E36F1 > My suggestion is for us smaller guys. Why don't you do what we do in Vermont. Get everyone together on the same page, at the same time. Figure out how much you each need...we try to put 600 pounds in each barrel...off the top of my head that would be 29"...magic marker line at that point. Wash out enough honey barrel to hold your portion of the order. Have the tanker delivered, and have a parade. The trucker fills each barrel on your truck, replace the covers, and the next in line pulls up and fills up. We've been doing this for 20 years. Some take one barrel, some take 20. Works for us! Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/381 - Release Date: 7/3/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---