From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:46:51 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.2 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821F74903C for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:46:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFhrp6016524 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:46:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:46:51 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0609C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Status: RO Content-Length: 62334 Lines: 1538 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:24:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First frost has occurred here in south central Manitoba - not unusual! Extraction finished and the need to feed up the colonies for the winter is being started. This year - unlike the last two has me finding that the bottom boxes of the majority of the colonies are either already near to required winter weight - or just need a gallon to get there. Normally, 5 gallons of HFCS (at 18% dilution with H2O) are required to get them up to weight. Populations are good. Mite levels OK Queens present. BUT - a fair % have completely shut down brood production. Maybe due to the rapid finish of the Canola flow which was followed by a nectar flow from Alfalfa, Sunflower. All in a semi drought weather condition. Whatever - the bees appear to have put lots of stores down below, shut down brood production and have good populations. Since we are only at the mid September date - are the winter bees already there? If so, it will be a long time from now till next April when major brood production again commences. If not - there is little room for brood to be produced. Since only small amounts of natural pollen is being brought in (the bees have good pollen stores!) - and here is my question: - Has any body ever tried to use pollen substitute to start up late season brood? No, I am not worried, desperate, just inquisitive if there is this potential use. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 04:21:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Nematodes for SHB Control In-Reply-To: <000201c6d60f$02accb50$6401a8c0@bassettbob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Robert J. Bassett" wrote:Please tell us more about the nematodes you found for the hive beetle infestation. The developer for this line of attack on the SHB is Mr. Lewis Tedders. He is located in Georgia and, I think, would be happy to send you some literature concerning the program he has developed. Here is some of his sales pitch: >>Southeastern Insectaries (SEI) is a small company in Perry, Georgia devoted to the development of alternative methods and products for pest control. After nearly 4 years of research and development SEI has reached the final stage of producing and selling a new, exciting and highly effective product for control of small hive beetles. The product poses no threat to beekeepers, bee colonies, surrounding plants and animals and poses no risk of contamination of honey. There are no state or federal regulations required for use of the product and it meets all regulations required by the bee industry and organic producers. >> The product employs use of beneficial nematodes produced by SEI and developed jointly by SEI, the University of Georgia, and the Department of Agriculture. To apply nematodes they are added to water and poured onto the soil in front of each hive. Nematodes then burrow into the soil, search out, attack, and kill hive beetle larvae and pupae that previously exited the hive. Attacking nematodes consume the insides of hive beetles, where they also mate and reproduce. Each dead hive beetle then yields from 19,000 to 23,000 second generation nematodes that leave the dead beetle after about 14 days. >> The second generation of nematodes expands the search within the soil around the hive, killing remaining beetles or additional beetles that exit the hive. Still more generations of nematodes develop for as long as hive beetles infest the soil and until hive beetles cease to be a problem. >> This technique is a major control breakthrough for hive beetle apiaries! >> For further information concerning availability of nematodes and timing and costs of applications, please contact us toll-free at 1 (877) 967 - 6777 >> (1 - 877 - WORMSSS). The above is their sales pitch. Mike in LA Lewis Tedders SHB Nematodes (877) 967-6777 --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 22:44:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Peter & All, You got problems similar to this year in the Midwest. Old bees will not winter. You can only evaluate your bees for winter by brood cycles. The fact you have got plenty of pollen helps. I have never seen such a shortage of pollen as this year in the Midwest. We have been feeding pollen for awhile and we are weeks behind you in winter arrival. I can give you two solutions. Pull honey bound brood nests and replace with drawn comb and feed a gallon of light syrup (they will just store heavy syrup) to try and get a brood cycle (or two) in before winter. In cold climates you need 2-4 brood cycles to winter. If your bees are on 3 frames of brood right now you have got one. If 6 frames then 2 cycles. A cycle is 21 days. Count the amount of frames being used for eggs,larva and sealed brood as a cycle. Counting old bees will not work as they will not make it through the winter. Commercial beekeepers counting old bees to winter in cold areas are the guys which lose fifty percent each year. Many commercial beekeepers move their hives after the honey flow in the middle of the day to lose the old bees (which are doomed anyway). Should have been done (if the method used) 4 - 6 weeks ago by you in your area). Then adjust brood for winter. Take your winter loses in the fall. Maybe sounds harsh but your bees will winter better. You will spend less on feed. Why do you think all but queenless hives toss drones. Survival! A bit drastic but practiced by large commercial beekeepers. Maybe not possible for you but would be for me in your situation. When bees are not prepared properly for winter by commercial beekeepers due to not having the time ( northern part of the U.S.)the bees are simply loaded on semi's and headed to a warmer climate to finnish the work. For us maybe only 2oo-400 miles if a month is all thats needed. If a winter is needed to rebuild we go south of I 20 in Texas. I saw a similar problem as Peter but without pollen so pulled all supers and begain getting the bees ready to winterweeks ago. Now I will finnish extracting as all but last feeding is complete. While extracting for the next week or two I will be happy knowing my bees have been combined, fed both syrup and pollen patties and ready for winter. Every time I did the extracting and left the bees till last I paid a price in winter loses. Hope the above helps Peter! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 15:59:03 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Gormanston Summer School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all It is only a couple of months since the Gormanston Conference for 2006 occurred, but we already have advance details for 2007... This is because the accommodation has been upgraded over the last few years and so there are slightly fewer places available (320), hence the need for early booking so that you are not disappointed. To give you a flavour of what goes on, please visit... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormanston2006.html for a report on my experiences at this year's event. To help those that wish to find out more there are a couple of pages that I have added to my website... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormanston_summer_school.html gives an overview of the event and... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormanstonindex.html gives an index of reports, articles and programs on my website and other places. The Federation of Irish Beekeepers' Associations has issued a brochure that deals with the 2007 event and a web page facsimile of it can be seen at... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormflier2007.html and you can print out a reservation form by browsing to... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormreservation2007.html I hope to provide programme information nearer to the time of next year's gathering, but you can expect a large number of lectures and workshops to be on offer, similar to... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormprog2006.html Please ignore all previous year's booking forms and only use the latest one. I hope to see some of you there myself, I have already placed my own booking. -- Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 00:41:57 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: > Counting old bees will not work as they will not make it through the > winter. Commercial beekeepers counting old bees to winter in cold areas are > the guys which lose fifty percent each year. Many commercial beekeepers > move their hives after the honey flow in the middle of the day to lose the > old bees (which are doomed anyway). Should have been done (if the method > used) 4 - 6 weeks ago by you in your area). > Hello Bob and All Your thoughts were very surprising to me, so I had to write this email. Jovan Kulincevic - a leading person in beekeeping here in Serbia, says that we can't be sure that new bees are ones that will survive winter. There is a part of the season (in late summer) when colonies grow winter bees - and bees born before and after that will not survive. He even says that winter bees (ones that will see the end of winter) might be born at the same time as non-winter ones, and are fed with different food. Could you give your comments please? Our latitude is about 40-45 degrees. Best regards Predrag Cvetkovic -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:33:26 -0500 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <003801c6daaa$982b2e20$616c89d5@predrag> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> There is a part of the season (in late summer) when colonies grow winter bees - and bees born before and after that will not survive. This is true in all temperate climates. Bee turn the brood cycle over to raising winter bees meant to last longer and fly less, this brooding usually happens with the first frost while the cluster still has a lot of bees in it and before the let their numbers decline for winter. -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA http://beewiki.linuxfromscratch.org http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/OrganicBeekeepers/ mailto:scot.mcpherson@gmail.com . ` , ` ' .,';`,. ``. '. _/^\_ :;.,';`'.,` `., ' '`, /_____\ .:.,"'` /\_____/\ .,:`'" \###/.,';` -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:51:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, I have heard the hypothesis put forth by Serbia before. Without a trip to Serbia and seeing and testing for myself I can not say the hypothesis is correct or incorrect. Do bees feed winter bees different? I do not know. For myself its simple. After over forty years among the bees I have noticed in areas of hard winters like my area the old bees with tatered wings and shiny backs will not be around in early spring. Not rocket science. In short you need in our area 5-8 frames of bees to winter successfully. This year the bees quit brooding up for lack of pollen and we were left with 3-5 frames of old bees in many cases. In a cold winter those small clusters are usually found dead in an area empty of honey with heads in cells with a *hive full of stored honey*. After three decades of wintering bees (most of the time) in Missouri I can quickly tell by looking if a hive will winter. In my opinion stored honey is only one pert of the wintering scenario. Hive venting to prevent moisture is important as well as disease free and a good queen *WITH YOUNG WINTER BEES*. A close friend which runs around 4500 hives says you need four brood cycles before winter to get a strong hive ready to split in April. Two brood cycles minimum. Russian bees and survivor bees do not winter well in my area without my help for the most part because they want to winter on too small a cluster. If they get a strong fall flow then they raise the required (in my opinion) young bees to winter. Left alone they winter on too small a cluster for our climate. Even the Russian bees are getting pollen patties (real pollen) and a light syrup this year. I hate to clean deadouts (waste of my time and energy and sign of poor beekeeping) and try to take all winter loses in fall. I reduce down to the number of hives I think will winter and split back to the number of hives in spring I think I can without losing honey production. Unless I need a certain amount of hives for a certain reason I always follow the above rule. What race of bees do you use in Serbia and how do you prepare for severe winter? Do you top vent? How does your friend know for sure his bees feed winter bees different than summer bees? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 07:21:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote: >Many commercial beekeepers move their hives after the honey flow in the middle of the day to lose the old bees (which are doomed anyway). In 30+ years of beekeeping I have never heard such a thing. Many? pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:45:09 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Sucrocide. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I bought a bottle of sucrocide for varroa control 2 years ago and used it then per the instructions without apparent success in reducing varroa much. I am curious to know if folks out there have used it successfully. Please share your experience and id factors that made your use successful. Thank you. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:51:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Eric_Brown?= Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Many commercial beekeepers move their hives after the honey flow in the >middle of the day to lose the old bees (which are doomed anyway). > >In 30+ years of beekeeping I have never heard such a thing. Many? I spent some time working and visiting various beekeepers in New Zealand (mostly South Island) six or seven years ago, and I heard mention several times of beekeepers that practiced or had practiced eliminating summer bees after/with the harvest. Eric -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:13:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob Harrison wrote: >> move hives after the honey flow in the middle of the day to lose the = old bees (which are doomed anyway). Peter Borst queried: > In 30+ years of beekeeping I have never heard such a thing. Many? I'm going out on a limb here, but I believe Diana Sammataro recommends = doing such in _The_Beekeepers_Handbook_ (Sammataro and Avitabile). Aaron Morris - Wondering if my memory is that good? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:38:50 -0500 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Said: ...in New Zealand...(he heard) beekeepers that practiced or had practiced eliminating summer bees after/with the harvest. Well it makes "some" sense. It forces the bees to immediately re-evaluate their population and raise bees quickly. Since they are raising winter bees at this time, there will be more winter bees going into winter. I am not saying it's the right way of doing it, but I understand why someone might do it that way. I prefer to let the bees handle it themselves, but I don't move my hives around, or I move them as little as possible, because perhaps I have a new yard or I am not happy with a yard I already have. -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:11:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: walter weller Subject: Re: Sucrocide. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used sucrocide once a few years ago. You can have the rest of the bo= ttle.=0D=0A=0D=0AWalter Weller=0D=0ALouisiana=0D=0A= -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:01:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Peter & All, The method is quite common in fact but for years many aspects of large commercial beekeeping were kept secret. I don't believe the method has ever been discussed on any list before. Allen Dick pointed to the method in his article on "moving bees in daylight" published in Bee Culture years ago. Even pulling supers with bees if the load of supers is to travel a long distance to lower the amount of bees left in the hive after a honey flow. Maybe the methods seem crude to the hobby beekeeper but they are used in the commercial beekeeping industry. I have used both methods talked about but please do not call Peta! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. If we do not hear from Allen Dick before long we will be forced to pay the ransom asked as he must indeed be held hostage at some remote location. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:11:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Bees in Tree In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm trying to get some bees out of a tree. The homeowner wants to save both the bees and the tree. The entrance is about 8 feet up, maybe 4x6 inches. I checked the archives and got some local advice, and here's what I've tried: I wedged a hive body in a crook in the tree about a foot below the entrance. In the hive I put a queen with brood, some pollen and a frame of honey. I put window screen over the entrance with a 1.5" clear plastic tube about 3 feet long leading into a telescoping cover. Below the cover I put a wooden bee escape, the screened kind that you put below supers to evacuate them, so they'd find their way down into the hive but not back up. I covered most of the screen with duct tape to reduce ventilation in the hopes of encouraging them to leave the tree. I also wrapped duct tape around most of the tube as the bees in the tube were trying to get out like they do in the back car window. After 3 days I hadn't gotten anywhere -- I figured either they weren't going thru the evacuator or they were finding their way back thru. So I tried one of the small plastic escapes that goes into the hole of an inner cover, only I attached it to the end of the tube so there would be no going back once they came out of the tube. Next day there were a few more bees in the air and a few more in the hive body. I went back at dusk, in the rain, and found a few bees still flying around and a few hundred clustered on the tree screen. This would suggest there is not a second entrance to the tree, but it seems they're not too thrilled about moving into the hive either. Anybody got any suggestions on what else I can do to get them out of the tree? Thanks, Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:56:16 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harison wrote: > Without a trip to Serbia and seeing and testing for myself I can not say >the hypothesis is correct or incorrect. Do bees feed winter bees different? I do not know. Hello Bob and All Bob, you are welcome in Serbia. I've heard that bees might feed bee larvae in a cell next to each other with different food - one bees will survive winter, the other will not. I can't give a reference now, many of that was presenting to Serbian beekeepers by professor dr Jovan Kulincevic. He is quite well informed about German researches - I think German and Swiss researchers were very interested in that, especially dr Liebig from Hohenheim university. > For myself its simple. After over forty years among the bees I have >noticed in areas of hard winters like my area the old bees with tatered wings and > shiny backs will not be around in early spring. Not rocket science. Yes, it seems very clear, but not every young bee will be around in early spring - the old bees are not disscused now, only young ones. > What race of bees do you use in Serbia and how do you prepare for severe > winter? Do you top vent? How does your friend know for sure his bees feed > winter bees different than summer bees? Our bees are Carniolan only. For our conditions, colonies with 5-6 frames of bees winter successfully and can be good next spring. Colonies winter in one or two brood chambers. When wintering in two chambers, I sometimes remove few frames and make bees winter, for example, 7 under 7 frames. It is used especially if bees haven't got enough natural food and are not too much strong. Good honey combs and brood combs with good rims of honey and with pollen stay up and those that are without honey should be down. I feed bees to make winter stores as early as possible - usually early in August but I will try to have as much as possible natural honey supplies in hives. One or two year old queen is recommended. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, Kulincevic's words about different food are not about his own bees but about researches, counting bees and food analyzing. Sometimes colonies with less bees in autumn have less losses during winter and have more bees after that then colonies that were stronger in autumn. Except varroa, latent nosema can be a problem for wintering here, then old and non-winter bees, exhausted bees... Personally, I use upper entrances and the hives are without vents on inner covers. Beekeepers that have vents, cover those with papers or someting similar. Best regards Predrag Cvetkovic -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:06:20 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only to add: As I heard real winter bees can't be visually recognized. Predrag -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:43:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: OA and open brood. In-Reply-To: <004201c6d316$fb169420$428e6a58@office> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-35D25303 After the report of damage to open brood after vaporizing Oxalic acid, I decided to look for myself. Seven days ago, I began OA treatments, using a 12v vaporizer. First, I checked the brood.I marked combs with older unsealed brood, and combs with young unsealed brood and eggs. I then vaporized 2gr OA, with hive sealed. Today, I repeated the process. Before vaporizing, I checked the previously marked combs. I could find no damage to the brood. Most of the brood has been sealed, with what was eggs seven days ago, remaining unsealed. All the brood looked healthy. Now, to see if it works. I did an alcohol wash on several colonies, and will repeat a week after the final treatment. Mike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:21:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - ">Anybody got any suggestions on what =". Rest of header flushed. From: walter weller Subject: Re: Bees in Tree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eugene Makovec wrote:=0D=0A=0D=0A>Anybody got any suggestions on what = else I can do to get them out of the tree?=0D=0A=0D=0AAs some of the o= ld folks around here might say, "Le jeu vaut pas la chandelle." You h= ave already expended more time and effort than the bees are worth.=0D= =0A=0D=0AIMHO, there's no good way to do it. No way at all, despite t= he tales we hear and read.=0D=0A=0D=0AWalter Weller=0D=0ALouisiana=0D= =0A= -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 00:26:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <003f01c6db5e$09841e20$027d89d5@predrag> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have a reference somewhere on regarding the composition difference between "Winter" and "Summer" bees. Start again........... Have a reference regarding the composition difference between "Winter" and "Summer" bees. But time is not with me to deal with it. Shall be back to this in a few days. Please excuse the delay. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:56:17 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bees in Tree Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>The entrance is about 8 feet up, maybe 4x6 inches. I've removed entire nests through openings this size. The shape, size, and the extent of a nest is unpredictable but you can remove pretty much any comb within an arm's reach inside a tree. One needs to break up the combs inside the tree to a size that will pass through the opening... As one gently pushes the bees out of the way to secure a hold on a comb, one does get occasionally get stung on the fingers... Of course, that's therapeutic... :)) Use plenty of smoke and take your time. I've never had to 'cone out' a colony out of a tree but I am pretty sure you won't get the queen. And you have to make several trips. Another approach is to drill a couple of 1/8"-1/4" dia. holes about 12"-24" apart in the vertical direction on the back side of the tree and squirt in BeeQuick or Honeybee Robber. If you hit at the limits of the nest, you may drive all the bees out. Then you bee vac the bees and can cut and take out the combs. A tree will typically seal up 1/8"-1/4" holes without a problem. I place feral combs that have brood, eggs, pollen, and honey on an excluder over an inner cover. The queen and the bees go into the box below. As feral combs become empty - the bees will even eat out the pollen in a few weeks - I put them into my solar wax melter. To me, this is the most comprehensive way to save a feral colony. It's getting late in the season but, with feeding, you should be able to overwinter this colony. It's worth a try. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:09:47 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Predrag, >>Personally, I use upper entrances and the hives are without vents on inner covers. Beekeepers that have vents, cover those with papers or someting similar. Please describe in more detail how you do this. Also, do you use top insulation or wrap your hives? Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:18:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: Sucrocide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>>>I bought a bottle of sucrocide for varroa control 2 years ago and used it then per the instructions without apparent success in reducing varroa much. Waldemar, unfortunately the lack of efficacy you experienced is shared by most. However, it works great for spider mites in the garden! Really! Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:14:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Bees in Tree In-Reply-To: <20060919.055637.25474.836320@webmail52.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sep 19, 2006, at 12:56 PM, waldig@netzero.com wrote: The entrance is about 8 feet up, maybe 4x6 inches. > .... place feral combs that have brood, eggs, pollen, and honey > on an > excluder over an inner cover. > The queen and the bees go into the box below. Is there not an error here? How can the QUEEN get through the inner cover to go into the box below, and indeed, would these the other bees leave the queen alone above the Q excluder? Bob Barnett B'ham, AL > Waldemar > Long Island, NY > -- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:52:46 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bees in Tree Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob, >> The queen and the bees go into the box below. >Is there not an error here? How can the QUEEN get through the inner cover to go into the box below, and indeed, would these the other bees leave the queen alone above the Q excluder? When I said 'the queen and the bees go in the box below,' I meant 'the beekeeper places the queen and the bees in the box below the queen excluder.' Hope this clarifies it. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:43:02 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Predrag: > >>Personally, I use upper entrances and the hives are without vents > on inner covers. Waldemar: > Please describe in more detail how you do this. Also, do you use top > insulation or wrap your hives? Hello Waldemar and All If bees winter in one box, I usually put an bottom rack about 10cm (4 inches) high or similar, between hive body and the bottom board. My first five hives had slatted bottom racks 5cm (2 inches) high, so that idea was permanently interesting to me. The entrances are on the hive body, diameter is 3cm (about 1'' 1/4). When wintering in two boxes, the entrance is on the higher one. Inner covers are made of masonite, but I think about using wood or thick natural canvas. There is a hole for the feeder, not for ventilation. Yes, I use top insulation, some papers or styrofoam. Winters are not so harsh here, so we don't wrap our hives. Best wishes Predrag -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:44:32 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks Predrag. Do you have a photo of your set-up? >>I usually put an bottom rack about 10cm (4 inches) high or similar, between hive body and the bottom board. ... The entrances are on the hive body, diameter is 3cm (about 1'' 1/4). Do you mean your top entrance in the hive body is 3 cm diamater? Do you also restrict your bottom board entrance? >>My first five hives had slatted bottom racks 5cm (2 inches) high, so that idea was permanently interesting to me. Do you find slatted bottom racks help your wintering? Many many pounds or kilograms of stores do you winter on in your neck of the woods? Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:00:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by randyoliver@INFS.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. > > Anyone, I don't know if you've checked the TLV's (threshold > limit values of > vapor) of oxalic, but the vaporized gas is pretty hot stuff! > The TLV of oxalic is 1mg/cubic meter. For comparison, the > TLV of formic acid is 9.4mg, for acetic acid 25mg, for > ammonia 17mg, chlorine gas 1.5mg, hydrogen sulfide 14mg, > hydrochloric acid 7.5, benzene 1.6mg, and toluene 188mg. I > arbitrarily listed some dangerous vapors for comparison. > > If one is vaporizing 1.4g of OA per colony, and half of it > vaporizes, then you've created enough vapor to make 700 cubic > meters of air dangerous (that's about a 50ft square house!) > That's per colony treated! > > Am I being too cautious? There have been a number of formic > acid inhalation injuries and deaths, is OA vaporization in > the same risk group? The websites Mike referred to say it's > safe, but I'm curious. Anybody have a better handle on just > how dangerous vaporizing OA into hives on a large scale is to > the beekeeper? Will one good accidental breath kill or > seriously harm you? > > Thanks, > Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:33:19 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy Oliver wrote: >> Anyone, I don't know if you've checked the TLV's (threshold >> limit values of >> vapor) of oxalic, but the vaporized gas is pretty hot stuff! >> The TLV of oxalic is 1mg/cubic meter. Interesting stuff, but it seems that there is more than one TLV: TLV-TWA Threshold Limit Value - Time-Weighted Average: The time-weighted average concentration for a normal 8 hour work day and a 40 hour work week, to which nearly all workers may be repeatedly exposed, day after day, without adverse effect. TLV-STEL Threshold Limit Value - Short Term Exposure Limit: a 15 minute time-weighted average exposure which should not be exceeded at any time during a work day even if the 8 hr TWA is within the TLV. Exposures at the STEL should not be repeated more than 4 times a day and there should be at least 60 minutes between successive exposures at the STEL. TLV-C Threshold Limit Value - Ceiling: the concentration that should not be exceeded during any part of the working exposure. So which of these does the 1mg/cubic metre fall into - and how would we know the value to which the beekeeper was being exposed? Weather conditions at the time could cause very large variations, even where a standard dose per colony is being applied. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:58:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <006501c6dcd2$7bb462a0$98f06a58@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Edwards wrote: > So which of these does the 1mg/cubic metre fall into - and how would > we know the value to which the beekeeper was being exposed? Weather > conditions at the time could cause very large variations, even where a > standard dose per colony is being applied. It really does not matter. The issue is the relationship of OA vapor to other toxic chemicals. It is very toxic. I would not use it. I toyed with the idea until I saw just how dangerous it is. Whoever is using it with others is exposing the helper (as well as themselves) to potential harm and opening themselves up to a serious lawsuit if an accident happens. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:06:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: Bee Warning In-Reply-To: <20060911021146.28824.qmail@web51603.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dee asked: So can you go into more the origins of two haplotypes of the beetle in the USA......if not matching now? Reply: According to a paper published by Evans et al. 2003. Analyses of 539 beetles showed that the two haplotypes were originated from south Africa and irregularly distributed in the USA. The first haplotype was found in Southern Carolina and other states. The second haplotype was found in beetles from Florida, Georgia and North Carolina. I hope that this info answers your question. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:57:56 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Waldemar and All No, unfortunately, I haven't got pictures of that set-up. Yes, top entrances are 3cm diameter and yes, I restrict bottom board entrance to 3-4cm because of possible latent robbing. A beekeeper who is very big top entrances propagandist here suggests top entrances to be 3.5cm diameter. > Do you find slatted bottom racks help your wintering? Yes, I think it helps wintering, but a free space bellow brood box probably could be higher/deeper and I have only few slatted bottoms - the others are not slatted and are about 10cm high or are common bottom boards. I understand that slatted bottoms have some other adventages but I didn't unify my hives, it is maybe not too much serious of me. > Many many pounds or kilograms of stores do you winter on in your neck > of the woods? Yes, my bees are very close to a small town where I live but I think about moving myself and bees somewhere closer to the countryside. :) Best wishes Predrag -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:05:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Bee Warning In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Medhat Nasr: Analyses of 539 beetles showed that the two haplotypes were originated from south Africa and irregularly distributed in the USA. Reply: Okay we got two starting places in the USA you mentioned from S. Africa and two different haplotypes. From were in S. Africa may I ask are each from? Also with one haplotype now from from Australia, are there any more to look for also? Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:29:39 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <45119D81.1020905@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All > So which of these does the 1mg/cubic metre fall into - and how would > we know the value to which the beekeeper was being exposed? Some are concerned about Oxalic acid vaporisation producing a great deal of toxic vapour, but the point of the treatment is that the oxalic acid re-condenses within the hive very rapidly and coats everything in sight. Leakage will occur, but it will be a minor amount and the fine crystals will fall out of suspension fairly rapidly. If due notice is taken of sealing up the hive and prevailing wind direction, there should be very little exposure to the operative. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:26:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <45123F63.2000704@lineone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7AB74DC5 > If due notice is taken of sealing up the hive and prevailing wind > direction, there should be very little exposure to the operative. Exactly. I run 8 vaporizers. 4 are set up, and energized. Then the next four are set up. When the first four are finisher...2 - 2.5 minutes...the battery is moved to the next four. By the time those are nearly finished, the first 4 are removed from their hives. They have cooled off, and are no longer smoking. They are then prepared for the next 4 hives. There was a study published in the back of ABJ a year or two ago. Colonies wrapped for winter had a 90+% kill of Varroa. Unwrapped was only 70+%. So...the holes and cracks must me sealed anyway, for the vapors to work best. When prepared properly, almost no vapor escaped the hive. As far as making 700 cu ft dangerous...a 50 sq ft house...your not vaporizing inside a house. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:05:34 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>A beekeeper who is very big top entrances propagandist here suggests top entrances to be 3.5cm diameter. I don't like drilling holes in my deeps. I place a ~1/4" (0.65 cm) dia stick under the top insulating newspaper. The stick extends from the inner cover hole to the edge of the inner cover. I find that the moist air flows out of the hive well. I don't see mildew or mold inside the hive. The newspaper absorbs a little moisture along the stick but this does not compromise its insulating value. I do have drilled holes in some of my medium honey supers to help provide an airflow in the summer months. >>I understand that slatted bottoms have some other adventages but I didn't unify my hives, it is maybe not too much serious of me. I've read/heard slatted racks reduce swarming but I have not seen any comparisons with regular colonies. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: oxalic acid vapor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>>So which of these does the 1mg/cubic metre fall into Peter, I checked a number of sources, and I can only get a TLV for oxalic acid vapor, no one had a TLV-C. But the question I'm really trying to find out is: are we dealing with a vapor that can cause serious harm if one inadvertently inhales a single breath? Clearly the vapor concentration created in a hive far exceeds the TLV. Do any of the manufacturers of the vaporizers have info, or are they willing to demonstrate the safety of inhaling a lungful? Those I've asked just say "it's safe"--which would be the expected answer. My guess is that the first lawsuit against a vaporizer manufacturer for selling a potentially hazardous product will dampen their enthusiasm. Again, the theory sounds great for distributing OA in the hive; the practice is what scares me! Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:31:39 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: oxalic acid vapor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...the theory sounds great for distributing OA in the hive; the practice is what scares me! Accidental inhaling of OA concerned me, too, as did the need to purchase or build vaporizing equipment. Then I read studies that determined the varroa kill was just as good with the trickle method. Trickling is quick and easy. The equipment is a graduated syringe. One needs access to a gram scale to get an accurate mix although they've seen in Finland that doubling the prescribed OA concentrations does not seem to affect the bees or the queen. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:17:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: Bee Warning In-Reply-To: <20060921030548.93715.qmail@web51608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dee asked: >From were in S. Africa may I ask are each from? Also with one haplotype now from from Australia, are there any more to look for also? Answer: This line of research is not mine. I just quoted what is in the literature. Good questions, I hope some scientists out there is looking for answers to these questions. In my early report, I was reporting on investigation that was conducted by me to find sources for beetles found in Alberta. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:51:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: oxalic acid vapor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/09/2006 18:38:21 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.COM writes: One needs access to a gram scale to get an accurate mix although they've seen in Finland that doubling the prescribed OA concentrations does not seem to affect the bees or the queen. The concentration of the syrup seems to be more important than that of the acid. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:40:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <20060921.060601.10554.852279@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "waldig@netzero.com" wrote:I don't like drilling holes in my deeps. I place a ~1/4" (0.65 cm) dia stick under the top insulating newspaper. The stick extends from the inner cover hole to the edge of the inner cover. When I kept bees in cantral Indiana, I overwintered in two hive bodies and placed 3/4" blocks at all four corners between the inner and outer covers. These hives were on the west side of a barn and thus subject to the prevailing west winds. In the three years I had the bees there I never had a winter deadout. Maybe it was luck, but I am convinced that with the adequate stores and that vintellation, I never had a moisture problem during the winter and that put a lot less stress on the bees than if there had been less of an air flow and more of a moisture problem. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:24:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I reviewed the oxalic vaporization process with a PhD chemist I know well as a friend. I posted my discussion with him here last fall and it should be in the archives. Long story short a direct inhaltion is quite serious and could have permanent heatlh effects. He suggested I wear a NIOSH approved respirator which I do while working with the vaporizer. . What is more appealing about vaporization then the liquid trickle method is if you have hundreds of hives and want to wait for the broodless period you do not need to open the hives up in cold weather. The way I see it is if I want to use oxalic I need to get my hives into November and the broodless period. We are using apiguard this year (once instead of 2 treatments) to treat only hives with higher mite levels. The rest wait til November when all hives are treated with oxalic vaporization.. Its a bit risky in the sense you must rely on mite levels to decide what to treat early and what can wait. Weather here in Mn during November can historically vary all over the board. Can't see counting on being able to open a hive in November to trickle so I go with vaporization. If the weather turns real cold I can still wait for a break in the weather (mid 30's) and treat any time in early winter. We wrap bees here for winter too and thats another issue that makes late broodless treatment a problem and the trickle method impractical. I'd like to wrap once feeding is done in mid October and come back later in November for oxalic. So here in Minnesota vaporization makes sense, is cheap and in my experience works very well. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---