From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:27:56 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF2349082 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEr0C7013917 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0609D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 92369 Lines: 2224 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 06:50:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-62E01CCF > if you have hundreds of hives and want to wait for the >broodless period you do not need to open the hives up in cold >weather. One reason I chose the vapor method. Many hundreds of colonies to treat. I can't imaging ripping them apart in November to treat with OA trickle. > if I want to use oxalic I need to get my hives into >November and the broodless period. We are using apiguard this year >The rest wait til November when all hives are treated with oxalic >vaporization.. Another reason to use OA vapor...you can use it now. Multiple treatments with OA vapor doesn't damage the bees. Three treatments, seven days apart, should get the mite levels low enough to get the colonies to the broodless period in November. Then, one more treatment after the colony is broodless, will finish the job. I'll know in a few weeks if this is actually working. I have a range of mite loads in my colonies now...some low, some high. This should be a good test to see if multiple OA vaporizations will control the mite populations. I'm hoping in the future, I can control the mite load using VSH stock...Varroa Suppressing Hygienics (formerly know as SMR...Suppressed Mite Reproduction). I believe this Hygienic trait is keeping the mite levels down in these colonies. You can see where the bees have removed brood, to get at the mites. Removing worker brood with a capping fork reveals many fewer mites in the brood then non-VSH stock. Also, there don't seem to be many mature mites in the cells...just the original female, and a couple immatures. I have been doing alcohol wash, to determine the mite levels. Mite levels in non-VSH colonies are between 40 and 50%. VSH colonies are 10% or less. Encouraging. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:28:45 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had written from my perspective of a small hobbyist who only needs to treat a few hives.. >I can't imaging ripping them apart in November to treat with OA trickle. Mike, do you assume they are all broodless? I check every hive for broodlessness. I see variations in hives as to when they go broodless. Opening hives in November may seem a little crazy but the bees take it all right and there is no harm. I am gentle when handling hives and do it when temps are in the 40's or 50's F. >>I'll know in a few weeks if this is actually working. Please give feedback then. I'd be interested in your results. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:57:52 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: oxalic acid vapor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>The concentration of the syrup seems to be more important than that of the acid. The sugar syrup recommendation is 1:1 (sugar to water) by weight or volume. (They found using just water did not work - either it was not taken up by bees or did not stick to mites.) The concentration of the OA crystals (you don't use a liquid OA) should be accurate. I suppose one could eyeball the amount of OA crystal amount but that will leave you guessing as to what happened should things go wrong. In the studies where they looked at lower and higher concentrations, they either had insufficient mite kills or harm to the bees. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:22:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE092109A64FAB@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just one other slight problem with OA either as a vapor or trickle. It has not been approved in the US as a pesticide for bees. It is unlikely that the trickle method will draw much attention since it if fairly benign and used mostly by hobby beekeepers. Not so with vapor which seems to be the preferred method by some commercial beekeepers. So just add that to the possible complications arising from an accident with the vapor. The Federal Government will be involved. A quick google yeilded this... Quote *"August 24, 2001 EPA To Seek Penalties From Pesticide Company * EPA's New England office announced that it intends to seek monetary penalties against a corporation for selling unregistered and improperly labeled pesticides and pesticide devices. The proposed penalty in this administrative complaint against the Mansfield, Mass.-based company is $209,000. This penalty is the largest proposed penalty in an EPA New England pesticide enforcement case. The corporation sells and distributes pet care products and specialty chemicals for pond and aquarium maintenance from its U.S. headquarters on Hampden Road. The penalty stems from an inspection last March by inspectors from the MA Department of Food and Agriculture. They collected six samples of different aquarium and pond pest control products for algae control sold by the corporation. These products are regulated as pesticides under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) because they claim to prevent or destroy pests, such as algae. Under FIFRA, regulated pesticides must be registered with EPA before they are sold or distributed. EPA later determined that these pesticides were neither registered or properly labeled as FIFRA requires. "This is an example of inter-agency cooperation at its best and I'm please our inspectors were able to assist EPA in protecting human health and the environment," said Jonathan L. Healy, commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Food and Agriculture, which oversees the state pesticide bureau." Unquote Other checks of the Internet showed State penalties in the area of $1,000 to $3,000 per incident. Knowing the government, they would try to make each colony and "incident". So it could be costly if an accident happens that bring attention to unauthorized pesticide use, especially with a known dangerous chemical when in its vapor state. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:47:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, would Brian and /or Mike like to tell us what make of vapouriser they are using, and if they have made any improvements to it? Peter Quebec -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:34:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Oxalic acid and resistance In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE092109A64FAB@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am not informed in this area but am coming to the conclusion that mites can develop a tolerance to OA and other organic acids. I certainly welcome those who are better informed to correct my assumption. The reason I assume this is that OA needs to be kept weak enough to not hurt the bee but strong enough to kill the mite. This is the classic senario for tolerance to develop. My guess is we will have a ten year window where the treatment will be effective, and possibly longer, but eventually resistance will be evident. Another observation is the less than 100% kill of mites with an OA application, even if the colony is broodless. So selection may be taking place. In olden days, some in power would take small amounts of poison (arsenic for example) to develop a tolerance for it. Granted, arsenic is an inorganic acid, so there may be some other things at work. The only reason for this post is that some have said that the organic acids will not lead to mite resistance. My guess is they will. This is one of those times that I will love to be proved wrong. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:44:53 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Bee Warning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Dee asked: > From were in S. Africa may I ask are each from? Also with one haplotype > now from from Australia, are there any more to look for > also? Have a look at Mitochondrial DNA Relationships in an Emergent Pest of Honey Bees: Aethina tumida (Coleoptera: Nitidulidae) from the United States and Africa by Jay D Evans, Jeffrey S Pettis and Hachiro Shimanuki. Ann. Entomol. Soc. AM. 93(3): 415-420 (2000) Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA See you at Apimondia in Melbourne in 2007 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:38:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:22:58 -0400, Bill Truesdell wrote: >Just one other slight problem with OA either as a vapor or trickle. It >has not been approved in the US as a pesticide for bees. > >It is unlikely that the trickle method will draw much attention since it >if fairly benign and used mostly by hobby beekeepers. Not so with vapor >which seems to be the preferred method by some commercial beekeepers. > >So just add that to the possible complications arising from an accident >with the vapor. The Federal Government will be involved. Here in Mn the Mn Ag Dept is much more concerned with commercial beekeeper's who are using Tactic, Amitraz or other shop rag treatments. Several commercial beekeeprs were fined this year for that practive and purchases of such chems are being monitored As far as the feds are concerned I'm not sure I have seen any involvement from them dealing with ag chemicals period as most of that enforcement appears to be at the state level. Bill I'm not sure I understand your concern as OA appears to be benign inside the hive regardless of the delivery method. Is it illegal in this country for a person to sublime a potentially dangerous chemical without wearing a respirator? On a daily basis people in the automotive paint industry , farm chemical application and even buidling construction industry use chemicals without proper personal protection devices. Seems like its an American way for men in this country to have a general disdain for chemical warnings and routinely ignore them. I grow apples and I am blown away every time I talk to another grower or go to a conference and see and here the sloppy and ignorant practices people use when handling chemicals. I see little difference between an unprotected pesticide applicator taking a hit of a farm chemical versus an unprotected beekeeper taking a whiff of vaporized OA. The materials may be hazardous but its really the applicators responsibility to take the proper precautions. Should our fed government play more of a role in that ? I don't think so . We reserve the right in the country to kill or maim ourselves as long as we don't impact someone else. Thats what the fast food industry, cigarette, motorcycle/snomobile and numerous other industries base their whole business strategy on...the ability to take a chance with your health and live to see another day. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:05:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By 'broodless period' do you mean a period with no brood or just less brood? If the former, how do you know? Apart from events associated with changes of queen I don't remember any of my colonies having been broodless (without brood) at a latitude of about 52 degrees N. Chris In a message dated 22/09/2006 02:03:29 GMT Standard Time, amesfarm@HOTMAIL.COM writes: The way I see it is if I want to use oxalic I need to get my hives into November and the broodless period. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:37:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <20060922.052906.10554.860573@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5B9F151D > Mike, do you assume they are all broodless? I assume nothing. I wait until mid-November, and treat. Hopefully most are broodless by then. Later than that, and the temps will be too cold for OA. Remember, you're on Long Island, and I'm in northern Vermont > Opening hives in November may seem a little crazy... By mid-November, all my hives are wrapped for winter. At that point, they can't be opened. If I wait to wrap until I'm finished with OA, it is very likely that I won't be able to drive into many of my apiaries. We often have snow on the ground by then, and if deep enough, I'll wind up walking into the yards, pulling the wrapping materials on a toboggan. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:40:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: <004301c6de45$3c44f660$3481a9d1@user> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5B9F151D > what make of vapouriser they are >using, and if they have made any improvements to it? I use the Heilyser Technologies JB-200. They have made some small improvements since the first edition. The pan is a bit larger. It holds more OA, and doesn't overflow so easily. Also, they added a pin to hold the pan on the heater better. Old model's pan could fall off in the grass. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:44:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5B9F151D > Apart from events associated with changes of queen I don't remember any of >my colonies having been broodless (without brood) at a latitude of about 52 >degrees N. Yeah Chris, but you are in the UK, where there isn't much of a winter. Your bees bring in pollen in February...from Ivy, isn't it? And that Gulf Stream effects what your bees do. Our bees do go broodless...at least most of them. Some of the Italian type stocks don't, or maybe just for a brief time. I guess I'm just doing the best I can with what I have to work with. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:47:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-5B9F151D > I reviewed the oxalic vaporization process with a PhD chemist >He suggested I wear a NIOSH approved >respirator which I do while working with the vaporizer. You should also wear acid resistant gloves when you handle the foams used to plug the entrance. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:51:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 23/09/2006 13:11:26 GMT Standard Time, mpalmer@TOGETHER.NET writes: <> Not from ivy, except possibly in the far South-West. In my part of the UK (Midlands), there may be a very little brought in on a warm February day, from snowdrops, Hellebores, and any other garden flowers which may be out that early, but it really will be the odd day, and they certainly won't bring in enough to make any significant difference. At that point, hives will probably have a little patch of brood a couple of inches across. A mild March will bring in more pollen, and broodrearing will increse, but there won't be much income until the willows bloom, around the middle of the month. Very often, of course, the weather is still too cold, wet or both to allow significant foraging. Don't jump to conclusions about our winters; they may not be cold, but they're as long as anywhere else, too cold to allow significant foraging, there is very little to forage on after the ivy finishes, and they're often extremely damp. Regards, Robert Brenchley -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:06:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: Oxalic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Great discussion, everyone. I want to reply to several of your points: >>>>By 'broodless period' do you mean a period with no brood or just less brood? Last year in my area of Calif we had a very warm early winter. Normally we are completely broodless by the end of November. Last year many colonies still had some amount of sealed brood in December. I trickled OA at that time, and got thorough mite kill nonetheless. In February we tested nearly every colony for mites with drone brood frames, and could rarely find a mite! Therefore, I don't know if complete broodlessness is critical. >>>>Multiple treatments with OA vapor doesn't damage the bees. Three treatments, seven days apart, should get the mite levels low enough to get the colonies to the broodless period in November. Question: why SEVEN days apart??? Why not 4 or 5? What is the effectiveness curve for mite drop with vaporization? With dribble, the drop falls after about day 5. Since the mite reproductive cycle is about 12 days, plus a 3+ day phoretic period, seems that we should calculate multiple doses of contact miticides to hit the phoretic mites over a 15 day period. I just finished a trial of hitting a group of 15 mite-heavy colonies with OA dribble three times at 5-day intervals. I counted 24 hr stickies yesterday for a 2-week post follow up. Mite levels were down to about 10-15. The colonies didn't show any obvious signs of damage, and were rearing young brood. >>>>I have a range of mite loads in my colonies now...some low, some high. I do, too. I have a high percentage of VSH stock, and most have low mite levels, but the occasional colony is sky high! I'm also going to try Apiguard on those--I'm hearing good feedback on it. I tried thymol dissolved in Crisco a few weeks ago, and didn't see any increase in mite fall on the stickies during application. I'll try higher higher doses. I tried powdered sugar on two colonies that had natural fall of about 60 mites/day. Did three treatments, four days apart, dusting both boxes. Theoretically, this should have removed most phoretic mites through an entire mite reproductive cycle. Mite counts 2 days later were lower, but not by much. The result surprised me--I expected a much higher overall kill. There are a number of hobbyists around here who do indeed keep their colonies alive with periodic powdered sugar treatments (most also use screened bottoms, and some do drone brood removal in a addition--such as Janet Brisson). This is going on for about two or more years. The empirical evidence is that powdured sugar can be effective--so I'm very curious about my experimental results! >>>>>>The concentration of the syrup seems to be more important than that of the acid. That's not the impression I get from the European literature. The winter concentration appears to be fairly critical. The summer concentration appears to be much less critical. Summer colonies appear to be able to withstand really high doses of oxalic in syrup--measured either by concentration, or in total amount of oxalic applied. I just mix one concentration--3.5% w:w--and increase the dosage appropriately. Summer, about 5ml per frame. I haven't heard of anyone testing the effect of a nectar flow upon dosage (please let me know if you have). Would like to try that experiment during nectar dearth--treat all colonies with oxalic dribble, but feed some sugar syrup concurrently. Look for differences between the groups. >>>I suppose one could eyeball the amount of OA crystal We tried this--carefully measured 1tsp oxalic crystals multiple times, then accurately weighed each teaspoonful. The weights were all over the place! The crystals do not pack uniformly. You must weigh! >>>It is unlikely that the trickle method will draw much attention since it if fairly benign and used mostly by hobby beekeepers. Not so with vapor which seems to be the preferred method by some commercial beekeepers. I agree. Any vapor manufacturer is a sitting duck for a lawsuit! >>>I am not informed in this area but am coming to the conclusion that mites can develop a tolerance to OA and other organic acids. I would also assume so. However, since we don't know the mode of action, it is premature to reach conclusions. My guess is that since OA is widely used by the plant kingdom as a pesticide, that it will remain fairly effective. However, the main point is: don't put all your eggs in one basket for mite control! OA would be just one tool in the toolbox. >>>>The reason I assume this is that OA needs to be kept weak enough to not hurt the bee but strong enough to kill the mite. This is the classic senario for tolerance to develop. Don't know about that, Bill. If a pesticide has a low kill rate, it may not be of benefit to a species to evolve resistance, if resistance entails some negative tradeoff. However, if the kill rate is very high, such as with fluvalinate, then there is a very strong selection process, and we will soon see resistant mites. My money is on a medly of low-kill mechanisms to keep the mites from evolving resistance to any. This includes VSH and biotechnical methods. BTW, Bill, what's your personal tolerance to arsenic up to these days? :) Randy Oliver Calif -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:16:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 23/09/2006 13:11:26 GMT Standard Time, mpalmer@TOGETHER.NET writes: Yeah Chris, but you are in the UK, where there isn't much of a winter. Your bees bring in pollen in February...from Ivy, isn't it? Ivy is just about to yield nectar and pollen now and will continue to do so for maybe a couple of months. There's not much after that until goat Willow, (Salix caprea) in March accelerates everyhting. If I want to use oxalic I shall have to sacrifice brood. I looked into a few hives this afternoon taking Apiguard with me to apply. The first hive, a this year swarm, isn't very strong but I couldn't find any varroa so decided not to treat this year. The next had occasional examples of bald brood at red eye stage. I hooked out a few and nearly every one had a mite attached. A couple of bald brood were almost mature. I hooked them out and looked for mites on them but failed to find them. Of course mites might have been left behind in the cells. They did get the Apiguard. In another apiary, my only one that gave a decent yield in an exceptionally hot and dry year. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:25:10 +0100 Reply-To: honeymountain@kilty.demon.co.uk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: james kilty Organization: honey mountain Subject: Re: FW: oxalic acid In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 2006-09-23 at 08:51 -0400, Robert Brenchley wrote: > Not from ivy, except possibly in the far South-West. No, just about 4 weeks in Sept-Oct. They thrive on it and brood well - producing the "winter bees". (BTW my take on "winter bees" is they are the ones that have not yet fed their full complement of larvae so they do not age in the same way. Until this happens the hypopharyngeal glands are available to feed larvae and they stay as "house bees" until spring replacements take over (laid through the winter actually) and they become the main foraging bees. The others will fly the usual 500 miles or so and die, mostly in the early to mid spring, though winter can see a lot of flying.) We do have gorse which is in flower now and is likely to keep going through the "winter". james kilty http://www.honeymountain.co.uk thinking linux beats Vista hands down already http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/ http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redpieces/abstracts/sg246380.html -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:57:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 23/09/2006 19:31:27 GMT Standard Time, randyoliver@INFS.NET writes: The concentration of the syrup seems to be more important than that of the acid. That's not the impression I get from the European literature. Paper no 122 delivered at Apimondia at Dublin covered a comparison between different oxalic acid treatments in overwintering colonies. The test was conducted in Italy in 2 apiaries of 50 broodless colonies randomly split into 5 groups. 3 groups were treated by trickling various concentrations of OA/Sucrose, no 4 was treated by sublimation and the last group was left untreated as a control. The trickling groups were 4.2%OA/60% sugar; 3.2 OA/60%sugar; 4.4%OA/ 30%sugar. Efficacy was respectively 87.7%, 87.1% and 70.3%. The authors say:" The significantly lower motality in group C stresses the need of a high sugar concentration in solutions intended for trickling." and " The sublimation was time expensive and required heavier protections than the trickling." Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:01:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Oxalic acid In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-42F757A8 > I do, too. I have a high percentage of VSH stock, and most have low mite >levels, but the occasional colony is sky high! Do you think this may be one that raised their own queen? Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:18:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: DDT - Beneficial to Honeybees? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All, Just wondering what you opinion is on this. News Article: "An unexpected victim, the honeybee’s population decreased when the use of DDT was discontinued, while the ban helped the increase the number of mosquitoes." "Without DDT, the other more toxic pesticides applied to crops caused serious damage to bees, wiping out entire commercial operations. Suddenly agriculture was threatening to the bees it depended on." DDT Makes a Comeback to Save Millions of Lives http://www.salem-news.com/articles/september222006/ddt_uganda_92106.php Joe Waggle Ecological Beekeeping 'Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:17:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Bee Warning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Medhat & All, On Monday Sept. 11th. post I asked if a single small hive beetle was found (as reported to me) or many. Was my information correct of only a single hive beetle Medhat if you looked into the Alberta SHB find? Was the SHB (if only one) alive or dead when discovered? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri Ps. Sorry for the late reply as I have been out of state for a few days. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 07:23:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: DDT - Beneficial to Honeybees? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-726C5A7C > Just wondering what you opinion is on this. DDT had so many negative effects on the environment...we still don't have a breeding pair of Bald Eagles in Vermont, although the Peregrines have been re-introduced...that it shouldn't be used. Pesticide applicators should be more responsible in their use of the other "more toxic" pesticides. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:54:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Janet_Brisson?= Subject: Re: Oxalic acid Comments: To: Randy Oliver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "I tried powdered sugar on two colonies that had natural fall of about 60 mites/day. Did three treatments, four days apart, dusting both boxes. Theoretically, this should have removed most phoretic mites through an entire mite reproductive cycle. Mite counts 2 days later were lower, but not by much. The result surprised me--I expected a much higher overall kill" Hi Randy, when you do your mite counts after using powdered sugar, wait at least 5 days. The bees groom themselves and our mite counts have been high for at least 3 days after removing the powdered sugar. By 5 day the counts are much lower. Could you do one more count? I have done mite counts the day after a PS dusting, 3 days and then 5 days. The count on day 5+ is quite a bit lower than day 3 and the day after, way too many to count. I'm sure we talked about smoking and not smoking before pulling stickies. Smoke causes about twice as many mites to fall. We are not smoking the bees at all when we use sticky boards for 24 hour counts to try and be consistent. Randy, again, thank you for including powdered sugar treatments in your experiments. Sincerely, Janet Brisson, Grass Valley, CA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:10:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: DDT - Beneficial to Honeybees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm very dubious. If, for instance, DDT didn't cause the thin eggshells that caused so many problems for birds of prey, than it's a strange coincidence that they disappeared just when it was phased out in this part of the the world. If the stuff's going to be allowed to gain acceptance again, we should demand definite answers first, not just ifs, buts and maybes. Regards, Robert Brenchley -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:00:59 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lennard Pisa Subject: Re: DDT - Beneficial to Honeybees? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed DDT is definately again in the picture...the WHO thinks it should again play an important role in the fight against malaria (stated at a conference last Fryday) as it is really effective esspecially used for indoor application. This was a response on the decision of the American anti-malaria programme to use DDT again (stated in May this year). regards, L. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:51:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bee yard Subject: whereabouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Greetings! I haven't heard from Dave Green,lately..is he still coming down for breakfast? Regards, Herb Mainebee.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:40:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Oxalic acid In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-F4348E > why SEVEN days apart??? Why not 4 or 5? Two reasons. First...recommendation of vaporizer manufacturer. Second...my attempt to treat as many yards as possible with each round. I'm working alone at this, and with 35 yards to treat, I decided on a 7 day rotation. I'm sure some of the phoretic mites will re-enter brood, but I think most will be killed. I counted 24 hr stickies yesterday >for a 2-week post follow up. Mite levels were down to about 10-15. What was the count pre-treatment? > I have a high percentage of VSH stock, and most have low mite >levels, but the occasional colony is sky high! Do you think that these might have raised their own queens, and aren't your VSH queens? Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:23:10 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Oxalic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Therefore, I don't know if complete broodlessness is critical. I don't mind a patch of two of sealed brood when I trickle. OA acts for a few weeks (I am thinking at least 3 weeks) and the last sealed brood will emerge in a few days. My criterion is no eggs and no open brood. >>My money is on a medly of low-kill mechanisms to keep the mites from evolving resistance to any. And I want to have the bees exposed to some mites and viruses they vector as this helps weed out the weaker colonies. Ironically, this is an unintended benefit of varroa. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:01:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Eric_Brown?= Subject: Re: breeder selection and varroa-related indications Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >‘Selection and possibilities within honey bees – be careful what you are >selecting for‘. http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=480 Hello Joe and all, Thanks a lot for the link, Joe. I hadn't seen that before. And it deals precisely with the questions I was asking. I don't doubt at all that strictly selecting for low mite levels would lead to reduced vigor and productivity. I definitely see that strong colonies have a strong tendency to have more mites at the end of the year than weak ones. However, there are differences between hives of the same strength that I suspect are worth selecting for. I'll readily grant that the correlation between mite resistance and mite levels is more tenuous than the correlation between colony strength and mite levels, but I think it's nonetheless something I can work with. What this means for me is that I do mite drop tests on all my hives about August. Based on those numbers I make an assessment as to which hives are doomed, and I make an attempt to intervene with those. Hives that require intervention (so far never more than ~45%) get disqualified from the selection pool, and the queens are slated for replacement. Any other hives that die over the winter are obviously "disqualified," too. The next year I choose my breeders based on vigor and productivity, disqualifying queens along the way for aggression, excessive swarminess, disease, etc. Then, I test everything again for mites, intervene where I think necessary, disqualifying (again) any hive that received intervention, and round about the following April I have a breeder that I then use. (I raise almost all my queens in April/May.) Joe, you said you don't select for the ability to survive bad varroa levels, but you're not intervening to "save" hives either, are you? In other words, if you're letting hives die from varroa mites, I would say you're selecting for some combination of abilities to keep mite levels low and/or survive with higher numbers of mites. What else is there (besides intervention and dying)? If I were primarily a queen breeder, I'd probably rely very heavily on the Bond method in order to select for mite resistance, but as it is, my main objective is honey production, so if I can find a good way to avoid it, I don't want to sacrifice too many hives for the sake of my marginal queen breeding efforts. What I'm trying to say is that I'm sure selecting for overall performance works, especially in the absence of intervention, but I wonder if you might not be able to make a lot more honey by making some very marginal sacrifices with your breeding program (if you wanted to). Eric -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:53:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Bee Warning In-Reply-To: <000201c6de8e$59589e20$1e8a453d@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Trevor: I have read the article you posted for reference but the question still remains: From were in S. Africa may I ask are each from? Also with one haplotype now from from Australia, are there any more to look for also? Also may I now add, with two haplotypes in Africa noted in the South, how many types make up the continent, including the mediterranean area? Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:32:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alden Marshall Subject: Re: Winter Bees MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "waldig@netzero.com" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Winter Bees > I've read/heard slatted racks reduce swarming but I have not seen any > comparisons with regular colonies. > > Waldemar Waldermar, Slated racks reduce robbing tremendously and also make it easier to screens up hives for pollination. The principal involved is that the actual entrance to the hive, as far as the bee is concerned is the slats, some distance from the conventional entrance. Robbing bees do not care to enter an enclosed space before being confronted by guards. I go a step further as far as robbing is concerned, a folded piece of 1/2" hardware cloth wedged in the entrance essentially stops it as well as keeping out mice in winter. No need for entrance reducers in winter either. Alden Marshall Hudson, NH -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:44:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: OA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> I counted 24 hr stickies yesterday >>for a 2-week post follow up. Mite levels were down to about 10-15. What was the count pre-treatment? It was a 3-day "count" post first OA dribble. I don't count--I just separate colonies by a triage system. Low mites (about 15 or less--potential breeder; medium mites (maybe 100--will need another shot); and colonies with >100 (take to home yard to give special attention to. >> I have a high percentage of VSH stock, and most have low mite >>levels, but the occasional colony is sky high! Do you think that these might have raised their own queens, and aren't your VSH queens? Could be; could also be that the queens did not mate with enough resistant drones. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:31:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Re: DDT - Beneficial to Honeybees? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >DDT is definately again in the picture...the WHO thinks it should again >play >an important role in the fight against malaria (stated at a conference last >Fryday) as it is really effective esspecially used for indoor application. >This was a response on the decision of the American anti-malaria programme >to use DDT again (stated in May this year). Like the article said, for years third world countries have been demanding DDT for the control of flies and mosquitoes. They have been losing far more children to disease than to the pesticide. The article did not state what benefits DDT had for us at home. Bed Bugs had been all but eliminated in the U.S. by DDT. Ask someone who grew up during the Depression. Everyone had Bed Bugs. It was a fact of life. In the absence of DDT, Bed Bugs are coming back. Major hotels and cruise lines have been getting sued because they can't keep them off the guests. Now that Bed Bugs are sweeping low income housing and have a foot hold, we will all have them again soon. We run into trouble in agriculture because the mentality that more is better ruled. We kept treating crops season after season, long after the target pests are no longer present. DDT is a persistent pesticide that builds up in the soil, eventually running off to the streams and rivers. I don't believe DDT needs to be banned. I do believe it needs label restrictions. In its hay day, DDT was advertised to be "As safe as rainwater". Now that we understand it better and know that it isn't that safe, we can use it responsibly. When push comes to shove, my State has treated mosquitoes when there was a serious health risk. We have done it before and will do it again someday soon. DDT should be on the list of possible choices. Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:02:16 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Apimondia 2007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just to let people know that there has been a lot of new information = posted on the Apimondia 2007 website. It is www.apimondia2007.com Have = a browse and we look forward to meeting you in Melbourne next year. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:36:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: DDT Beneficial to Bees -- NO! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed DDT most assuredly is NOT BENEFICIAL to honeybees. The statement: "An unexpected victim, the honeybee's population decreased when the use of DDT was discontinued, while the ban helped the increase the number of mosquitoes" does not mean that DDT was beneficial to honeybees, nor is DDT the only pesticide that can be used to control mosquitoes. Replacement of DDT with organophosphate and other highly toxic synthetic insecticides DID impact honey bees -- from the standpoint of fast knockdown. The quote that "Without DDT, the other more toxic pesticides applied to crops caused serious damage to bees, wiping out entire commercial operations." is incorrect. First, the ban on DDT, of itself, did not lead to increased use of more toxic pesticides. DDT was one of the first of the complex organic insecticides, appearing in WWII, and replacing less toxic or slower acting insecticides like arsenic, copper, and sulfur-based chemicals. The supposed success of DDT spurred production of more organic insecticides, many of them derived from chemical warfare agents, and many faster acting. Truly a case of the sword being made in a plowshare. And farmers and growers wanted fast action. These chemicals were hard on bees, and continue to be. Not all bee losses are caused by varroa mite, but mites are suddenly the scapegoat; just as in the 60s, pesticides were viewed as the all encompassing killer of bees. Continuing, the quote says "Suddenly agriculture was threatening to the bees it depended on." This was nothing new. The first legal suit against an applicator for loss of a commercial operation was in 1915, long before DDT or any of the modern pesticides. Industrial losses of bees were also common, until heavy industry cleaned up its act with scrubbers, etc. -- and industrial losses of bees continue to this day -- but beekeepers often don't recognize the problem for what it is. We've been involved in legal suits involving losses of hundreds of colonies of bees at long-distances from the source of the toxic chemical. DDT may not have the rapid, dramatic knock-down or kill of a chemical like Sevin or a Carbamate, but it and its breakdown products get into the wax and the bees and stay there for years. In the late 70s, after DDT had been banned for some time, we still saw DDT, DDD, and DDE in bees in remote areas of Montana. In fact, in the late 90s, we still found some traces in bees from the east coast. DDT was banned because it accumulated in living system, like the egg-shells of birds. It was doing the same in bee colonies, building up over long periods of time. What the long term result of that build up might be is unknown, but its not likely to be beneficial. Jerry Fortunately, that's been reversed. > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:06:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: Bee Warning In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bob Harrison asked "if a single small hive beetle was found (as reported to me) or many and Was the SHB (if only one) alive or dead when discovered? We are still inspecting hives for the SHB. All what I can say at this time, all of found confirmed beetles were alive, except a suspected dead one. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:17:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: DDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Rachael Carson came along at just the right time, but with a wrong message. Silent Spring led directly to the banning of DDT and I am one who believes that on balance the world (and the US) has unnecessarily suffered as a result. DDT was, and is, a highly potent insecticide that is capable of annually saving many lives and reducing himan misery. Unfortunately, in the 1940's and 1950's it was used in manners that were entirely inappropriate. The manner in which it was used was what led to the severe decline of many of our raptors, unnecessary poisioning of robins, etc. Today we routinely use chemicals that have far greater potential harm to humans and wildlife than DDT. For example, beekeepers routinely use Coumophas and Methyl Bromide which are among the most deadly chemicals known. It would certainly be a good idea to have DDT re-registered and used according to a label written under today's standards. But, it will not happen and the poorest among us will unnecessrily suffer and die as a result. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:00:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: VSH Bees and Honey Production In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has anyone noticed a lower honey production rate with VSH bees? Mike --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:09:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Bee Warning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, Thanks for your response Medhat! To the list: For those seeing the small hive beetle ( SHB) for the first time. The alive SHB beetle is easily spotted by the two parts seen on the head. The parts stick out and then turn at a 45 degree angle outward by my observation. Many pictures in bee magazines show SHB without the parts on the head (not sure of proper name for the parts in beetles)because the SHB when dead does not easily display the head parts. All SHB I have seen have been a quarter inch long. The pollen beetle is very similar but longer ( and somewhat slimmer) and without the head parts. I have seen both the SHB and the pollen beetle in the same hive. Coloration is similar. Black to dark brown. The bee labs have told me many of the beetle samples sent in have been the pollen beetle. Two of the truck drivers I interveiwed for the border article said they had seen no small hive beetles and when they turned away at the I40 entrance into California a single dead beetle turned up. Both drivers asked me how a dead beetle could have crawled out of the load. The simple answer is they could not have. Hmmm. In the case of the Tom Kennedy Honey Farm Homerville, Georgia turned around load two supposedly small hive beetle were sent to Sacramento for testing. When Tom Kennedy went to Sacremento to question the State of California about the findings he was told one was a SHb and the other was a small piece of rubber. The turned around load cost the beekeepers around $20,000 in trucking and labor costs with figuring the lost pollination fees. The load (as per my ABJ article) was turned around for one dead SHB which crawled from the load and a black piece of rubber! The same rules are in place for this year! I have been told even higher pressure is being placed by California beekeepers to enforce SHb regs at the border. I have went higher than the State of California (Wayne Wehling in DC)to try and pressure California to make changes but so far no change. Plenty of SHB in California in thousands of hives ( I gave Mr. Wehling the name of commercial beekeepers with SHB in California). Also plenty of africanized bees in California. In the October issue of ABJ on page 834 you will see a picture of commercial beekeeper Rex Christensen which has had AHB in his apiaries for over 10 years in San Diego County, California. Come clean California like Florida did! Why make hard working out of state beekeepers pay for you trying to hide the truth? Turning loads of hives bound for almonds over a single SHB is stupid and was done last season at the I 40 entrance to California. Tom Kennedy was told his load was turned because of a SHB *infestation*. Is a single SHB an infestation? A single cockroach or spider in your house? Each hive was moved onto a new four way pallet when loaded for shipment to California by the Kennedys. The main reason was for fire ants but also such a procedure will clear SHB from hives. Letting off steam! Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:45:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: DDT In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd, You wrote: "would certainly be a good idea to have DDT re-registered and used according to a label written under today's standards." What are "Today's standards"? And do you really believe that labels are always followed wherever the product is used. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:36:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, Finally a reply for your mail dealing with winter bees!!!!! Your comment are most enlightening and presumably often used in climatic conditions that are not current here in Manitoba. The bees here have an air of being in harmony with the climatic conditions - during the summer period. Winter shows that they are dependant on Humans for survival! The in-between weeks varies from year to year. The time frame from winter protection till main nectar flow and back is short. Our intervention ensures that a reasonable proportion of colonies survive. Winter inactivity for the bees may extend from Mid October till the beginning of April. Healthy bees with lots of stores required - and they will only survive then in protected conditions (inside or wrapped). Spring depends on pollen from natural sources which are often frosted off or unavailable due to inclement weather. From May till late June, the colonies may be dealt with - split, requeened, fed amongst many other procedures. This is not a long period of time to get colonies ready for the flood of nectar that arrives during July/August. After this short period -it is straight back to winter preparations. Any mishap and a colony is likely not going to make a rentable harvest for the beekeeper. You mention pulling frames to open up the brood area - quite see your logic. The situation usually present is that the bees are either in a harvesting mode for the beekeeper or in a time period that is too late to do such a procedure as they have to be spending the time getting ready for winter. It is either brood or enough stores stored. We do not have the luxury of waiting for brood during our late season when it should already be in place. Feeding starts in September. Add on treating for mites - after the flow but before winter bees are in place and 24 hours in a day is cutting it fine. On top is the process of extraction. Needs to be done, finished before the other items mentioned. Result: A successful year is one where all run in sequence to a very tight timetable. One feature out of place and problems rise as sure as we will get -35 degree celsius winters. Once the bees start to configure their brood / nest area for the "deep sleep", any reorganisation in that box often results in that colony not making it till spring. Hence my report and questions - During this end of season, the bees shut down brood and filled the box with honey. I am hoping that the winter bees are there! If not - the potential to rectify is severally limited - unlike in regions with more clement climates and extended seasons - re: your comment about hitching a lift south. Removal of old summer bees by moving during the daylight hours - have seen the results of that in France where chaos resulted in one individual do such a thing and having bees flying around a close village for several days looking for home. I want my old bees to store the winter feed and wearing themselves out conditioning it . After that, walk out never to return. Colonies entering the wintering shed often will be so strong that if the lid is opened they ooze over the sides. I wondered if this cluster size would gobble up the stores! So far, not so. But in mid February, there has been a week during which the floor becomes covered with 2 - 3 cm of dead bees. Before very few and the same after. Summer bees really stretching it out or winter bees. You tell me. So, as things stand, feeding this year is in limited quantities, the colonies look strong, the mite levels are low and I am leaving them out till it really gets cold. With all that natural food, they sure are going to need empty rectums on entering my wintering room. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:45:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <000b01c6db5c$a3da3a60$027d89d5@predrag> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I apologize for not remaining in the discussion relating to winter bees - esp. since I initiated the topic. Questions were raised relating to the difference between summer and winter bees. Extracting information from Beekeeping Study notes - Modules 1,2,3 and 4 - J.D. and B.D. Yates published by Bee Books New and Old (ISBN 0 905652-33-9) Young bees after emergence consume "large" amounts of pollen causing development of the Hypopharyngeal glands and fat deposits. This allows for the creation of corporal protein stores. In summer: these stores are used to create brood food. Studies show that more brood food produces by an individual bee the shorter its life span. In winter: late emerging bees have limited brood to rear. The Hypopharangeal glands remain plump, whilst the fat bodies are numerous after consuming pollen from late flows. fat being stored on the dorsal side of the abdomen. Winter bees in this situation are somewhat similar to worker bees that are in a queenless situation. A table is present in the source being mined: Bees in spring /summer have average life spans 3.5 to 4.5 weeks Those considered as winter bees (emerging in August through till October) have average life spans of 29 to 24 weeks (August bees having the longest span). I suggest that these figures may vary due to race, type of bee and maybe situation. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:52:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: DDT Beneficial to Bees -- NO! In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060927143548.057b5b70@192.168.0.66> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, Interesting read. You mention that "industrial losses of bees continue to this day -- but beekeepers often don't recognize the problem for what it is.". Why is this the case? Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:18:54 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: D Thompson Subject: Electric heaters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I've been a northern beekeeper some years * I'm ashamed to say it took 20 yrs for the light bulb to go on I do have a semi-reasonable excuse A 2A extension cord must reach the yard I hope you can solder and use a meter The rest of you may find it worth a laugh The heat source is a "peanut" bulb (from a tensor lamp?) the size of 2 (shelled) peanuts 12V 50W, this is powered by a small "junk" computer PS, simalar exist in printers I run it at 5 or 6V (12.5 or 16W)(6V is 2 in series from 12) Probably at full power it would overheat & have short life The bees don't like light so enclose it in metal The pins on the bulb don't like to tin, dip them hot into flux several times. Do NOT bend these pins in the slightest. ie when insulating be gentle The leads are (inside)phone wire, all 4 wires used Being lazy I wondered if offset Al (printing plates .010" Al) would do -- it does, only 1 layer seems OK Cut and bend an envelope about 3 x 2.5" with tabs to seal edges. This will fit between 2 boxes if you make sure the frames are clean and wiggled a little bit Wax bits that drop on this do not melt, only soften It does not seem to injure brood It probably should be in contact with the bottom of the cluster or nearly so Now the Mk V design is much more interesting and only a bit more complex It is a "heat pipe" to dip into a divided division board feeder (full depth) Since the pins will electrolyse if into the feed the bulb has to be in a dry well at the top of the pipe. Use a all Cu penny, sanded to size, for the floor of the well & soldered into the .5" Cu pipe (If you never filled more than 85% full you could dispense with the well, just glue the bulb in place with a gob of silicone) If you cross drill the pipe to get some convection (warm feed!!!) don't let the bees into the pipe many would be killed when filling. There should be at least 1 hole to let the air out For wintering (a weak lot) you turn it on at 0f or 5f or for breeding always at 50f(10c), maybe sooner It seems to give about 30f(18c) temp rise to the hive If your are on the ball this will be controlled by a thermostat (I'm not so together) These bulbs can be bought for $2 Depending on the winter it would cost $1-2/bulb for the whole winter. I think this is cost effective However due to global warming I haven't gone nuts with this, I've only made 5, 3 of the mk3 & 2 of the mk5 design * I'm at 95-98 cold percentile. dave -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 03:39:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Highlights of 1st International Conference on the Medicinal Uses of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Highlights of 1st International Conference on the Medicinal Uses of Honey Reported by: Professor Nor Hayati Othman, Chairperson KOTA BHARU, Malaysia - Recently the 1st International Conference on the Medicinal Uses of Honey was organized by the Health Campus staffs of Universiti Sains Malaysia. This 3-day conference witnessed many advances in the field of honey in medicinal uses... SEE: http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2006/09/highlights-of-1st-international.html -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:58:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: VSH Bees and Honey Production In-Reply-To: <20060928030025.78907.qmail@web53407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4E707BF0 I haven't noticed lower honey production in my VSH crosses. I'm using VSHxCarniolan. The nucs started last summer and over wintered made the overall colony average of 100 lbs or a bit better. Location made more of a difference that strain of bee. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:27:08 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: VSH Bees and Honey Production Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Has anyone noticed a lower honey production rate with VSH bees? When I asked Strachan Apiaries about SMR queens 2 years ago, they said they were dropping them because 'they just don't produce.' I've heard hybrid bees from good production queens mated to SMR drones represent a good combination. Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:17:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Randy_Oliver?= Subject: VHS honey production Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>>>Has anyone noticed a lower honey production rate with VSH bees? Mike Until this season, all my SMR crosses were lousy bees--poor brood, poor honey, lots of disease and supersedure. This year, the Minnesota Hygienic x SMR cross, and her daughters and granddaughters are the best bees, including honey production, I've seen in many a year! Randy Oliver Calif -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:30:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Winter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Peter & All, Excellent post! I in fact printed the post off for reference later if needed! If you explained your comments in further detail would make a nice chapter for a beekeeping book on wintering in the far north. Most of what you said applies to my area in a severe winter. The one question you asked was if I thought the Mid Feb. kill off was "summer bees really stretching it out or winter bees". My guess would be summer bees. For years we sent bees to California as they came from the field busting with bees. No problemo! We graded those hives number 1's. When we ran out of number 1's we combined two number 2 marked hives. Number threes always stayed home but were in great shape for summer honey flows. The system worked fine until last year when graders were not seeing what we saw before shipment. In short many summer bees were dying right before shipment or during the long trip enroute to almonds. Giving California graders the benifit of the doubt. Although myself and other Midwestern beekeepers had serious problems with the way hives are graded going into almonds this season we are listening and we ARE looking close at WINTER BEES & BROOD in hives which may go to California. It is not an easy chore (and a new chore for us) to grade a hive in Aug./Sept. on bees/brood/winter bees instead of simply number of frames of bees. Actually I have taken what California brokers & beekeepers said last year to a new level. Once I have mastered the methods I might try and teach other out of state beekeepers. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:02:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <451B3734.6000909@mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter: Bees in spring /summer have average life spans 3.5 to 4.5 weeks. Those considered as winter bees (emerging in August through till October) have average life spans of 29 to 24 weeks (August bees having the longest span). Reply: Okay, now with 4 or more mites feeding on the body of a pupae or newly emerged worker bee within days shortening the life span down 50% for both summer and winter bees, how do you make up for the shortage of bees now needed for sping turnover, without accelerating the threshold number of mites for hive crash? Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:16:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Bee warning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, You said: >>>>Each hive was moved onto a new four way pallet when loaded for shipment to California by the Kennedys. The main reason was for fire ants but also such a procedure will clear SHB from hives.<<<< Seems like if this pallet change would "clear" a hive of SHB our troubles with them are over. What did you really mean? Dick Marron -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:18:57 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <451B3734.6000909@mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter, One more thing...Are there any more disadvantages other then nurse bees producing royal jelly that shortens their lives in a normal hive situation? I know that there are more that adds to this from the varroa standpoint that has bearing on a hives survival, but just normal hive duties now in healthy colonies, as most wouldn't look at royal jelly making as a life shortening occupation. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:48:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: DDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Well, 'today's standards' was a reference to the far more enlightened and realistic regulations we are seeing. For example, it would be wrong to spray DDT by airplanes, as was permitted in the past. No, I don't believe that every regulation label is always followed to the letter. But I also believe that the regulations themselves are written with full knowledge that sometimes they will not be strictly followed, and a safety factor is built in. With the use of any poison there is a trade off. All I am saying is that if it is important to reduce death and disability by malaria, etc. there is a place for DDT as it can be effective where other poisons have failed. Moreover, DDT can be safely used without damage to humans, raptors, etc. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:07:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: Bee Warning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm tired of the attitude by some commercial migratory beekeepers that their way of keeping bees and making a living somehow is more important for the good of American then other beekeepers who do not want to deal with "another" foreign pest. I applaud the efforts of CA beekeepers to force migratory beekeepers to do whatever possible to keep SHB out of their state. I sell a premium product and dry down my honey to a low moisture level. Getting SHB would make a horror show of my hot room and extracting process. I'm sure my situation is not unique in the beekeeping world. Here in Mn the commercial boys got their way and now we have no MN Dept of Ag regs and no oversight to bees moving into or out of our state. Bob is that what you would like to see in CA so the migratory beekeepers can come to the almond gold rush rescue? I hear that same line of trash talk here in the midwest when it comes to feedlots. The politicians and large agri-business concerns say we need the industry and me must stay competitve and they push for denying local townships oversight in feedlot permitting. There are other people in our state who value clean water , air and an ethical approach to raising animals. The same is true I'm sure in CA. IMO big money in growing almonds should not be the only criteria weighed when deciding who brings what into the state. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:45:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: Winter Bees In-Reply-To: <451B3734.6000909@mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Dillon wrote: > Questions were raised relating to the difference between summer and > winter bees. Hi. Sometime in the past year there was an article in Bee Culture about some recent research into the physiological differences between summer bees and winter bees. I know it was in the past year because I've only been subscribed to the magazine a year and I know it was Bee Culture because it's the only Bee rag I currently receive. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find all my back issues but I'll keep looking. In the meantime, if anyone on this list can find their back issues... I don't recall the details of the research but the upshot of the article was that bees destined for overwintering required especially good nutrition during all stages of their development in order to obtain the necessary levels of whatever chemical(s) were thought to play a vital role in their longevity. This is not inconsistent with what Peter just wrote about. George- -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:48:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Bee Warning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, Dick, The migratory beekeeper has less trouble with SHB than others because the small hive beetle many times will leave the hive when moved. Another beekeeper from Georgia which sent three loads of bees into 2006 California alomonds has two complete sets of pallets. By swiitching all hives to new pallets and also reducing into singles the chances of sending SHB and fire ants is greatly reduced. As many on the list know I spend time in the south every winter and have looked through plenty of southern hives. In Georgia & Florida all the hives contain a few SHB. Brian, What part of "thousands of hives in California contain SHB" do you not understand? Did border controls stop tracheal mites? Did border controls stop Varroa? Did border controls stop africanized bees? After over 50,000 hives were sent into California containing SHB over eight years ago and the SHB is established in California. What is turning a load for a single dead SHB all about? If you go back and look at my comments over the years you will see I said: Border controls will not stop the spread of tracheal mites ( was tried and did not work)! Border controls will not stop varroa in the U.S. ( was tried but did not work as package shipments came rolling ) Migratory beekeepers paid for quarentine stupidity (while the package shippers kept shipping packages with tracheal mites, varroa and now SHB) Quarentines did not stop AHB! One commercial beekeeper we thought was doomed to spend the rest of his days in the Rio Grande valley when AHB was discovered. After a few YEARS he was able to leave with his 3000 hives. Turning loads for less than a true infestation of small hive beetle at the California border is a joke! Shows ignorance and is stupidity ( and history) repeating itself. If you do not learn from past mistakes you will be doomed to repeat past mistakes! -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---