From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:29:53 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.2 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D67DA49093 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEr0CL013917 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0611D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 63062 Lines: 1660 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:59:08 -0600 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: number of beekeepers in the U.K. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Computers will track every person on the highway and each >person entering and exiting will be screened( the security system is called >sentrol or maybe cintrol). >Big brother like never seen before! Every single person entering or leaving London, UK has been tracked and photographed for a several years now. Nothing really new about that. -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:59:29 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob, I really cannot belive you wrote this. Our bees are not aggressive and really never have been, and when it is hot and main flow is on working in half bees suits or just veil over hat and long sleeved shirt is not working with hot bees so to speak FWIW. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420k for $1,399/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:11:45 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: <74f3dca4855874daab92f4a74ba8fa1a@lifesci.ucsb.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Adrian writes: I believe that is the first record of AHB in Arizona. Reply: Yes and this was in Tucson, and an isolated case and the main question was like in other places with one finding, why were they not found in the beekeeping areas between Tucson and the Border, so possibly it was an isolated one brought in manually, but from where? Think this happened in Calif too years prior to actual? besides other border states...Also, SC was already in usage sizing bees down with project going on at local lab also.So technically where were the bees from and also Id. These were questions back then.......we all talked about. Respectfuly submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeping Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeeping/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Loan for $1698/mo. Calcuate new payment. www.LowerMyBills.com/lre -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:34:23 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, in attempting to distill what may pass for facts from the rhetoric: a) given the choice, bees may tend to prefer to rear their young in sightly smaller cells than those in which they are usually encouraged to do so by the beekeeper, but can be very flexible. b) given the choice, varroa mites may tend to prefer to rear their young in slightly larger cells, ideally drone cells, but can be very flexible. c) varroa mites can lay just as many fertile eggs in small cells as in large ones. d) a smaller proportion of the mites emerging from small cells go on to breed than do those from large cells. Have I got it right? Have I missed anyhting? Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:46:28 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris and All > d) a smaller proportion of the mites emerging from small cells go > on to breed than do those from large cells. I'm not sure about that. e) small cell appears to promote some forms of hygienic behaviour. f) (as you pointed out) you can get more small cells on a frame. Gavin -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 23:36:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Irwin_Harlton?= Subject: Honey imported into Canada in 2006 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone have this information. The amount of honey imported into Canada in 2006, country of origin and the importers name. Irwin Harlton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:48:19 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris writes: Have I got it right? Have I missed anyhting? a)Okay, and normally are limited to .2mm - .3mm change each time. b)Okay, as when no drones are available and bees are laying in smallest cells in spring first, they go where they must, though odds of survival are lessened. c)Dunno here, as I would say slightly less, and also less time to come to maturity due to shortened turnaround time of emergence of bee. d)Okay from what I have seen and experienced. Regrds, Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:53:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: <02d701c70e88$0d27c600$04000005@mshome.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris and Gavin: e)& f) are linked here as more small cells and hence more bees emerging, means more division of labor available for housecleaning work, besides foraging for food, and water getting, all basics in life! Regards, Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 07:16:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Organization: Keith B. Forsyth Subject: Re: [WL] [BEE-L] Honey imported into Canada in 2006 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Try Statistics Canada http://www.statcan.ca/english=20 or Canadian Honey Council http://www.honeycouncil.ca=20 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:04:40 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Wayne Pitts Subject: Short-lived bees after feeding pollen supplements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug Somerville Apiary Officer New South Wales Agricultural Department Goulburn, New South Wales, Australia states in his paper, Honey bee nutrition and supplementary feeding, available at this link: http://www.agric.nsw.gov.au/reader/3271 "Prolonged feeding of protein supplements will result in short-lived bees. Two generations of brood can be satisfactorily obtained before this situation develops" Has anyone experienced this and if so, how long is short-lived? Does this mean the life cycle is compressed or that the foraging part of the life cycle is shortened? Wayne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/547 - Release Date: 11/22/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:13:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Apipharmacopoeia - Laboratory Preparations with Bee Products MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII APIMEDICA Presentation: Apipharmacopoeia - Laboratory Preparations with Bee Products\ APIMEDICA 2006, October 12-15, 2006, Athens, Greece Presenter: Bioch. Cristina Mateescu, Ph.D. Sen.Res.II, Institute for Apicultural Research and Development, Bucharest, Romania; Apimondia Standing Commission of Apitherapy E-Mail: crismatapiter@hotmail.com or apicult@sunu.rnc.ro Extraction Methods: 1. The selection of the solvent depends on the final use of the extract and on technical feasibilities. 2. Most active ingredients seem to be soluble in propylene glycol and ethanol. 3. Fewer ingredients are soluble in water, but even water extracts show at least some bactericidal and fungicidal effects, as well as wound healing properties. 4. Acetone extracts have been used for production of shampoos and lotions. 5. Once the specific chemicals or chemical groups and their biological effects are better understood, better and more specific extracts can be prepared for equally specific applications. TO READ THE FULL PRESENTATION, SEE: www.apitherapynews.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:32:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:34:23 EST, Chris Slade wrote: >So, in attempting to distill what may pass for facts from the rhetoric: >a) given the choice, bees may tend to prefer to rear their young in sightly >smaller cells than those in which they are usually encouraged to do so by the >beekeeper, but can be very flexible. If it is fact you are looking for, consider this: Beekeeping with European hives has been carried out in Central America since at least 1830. Early beekeepers used logs and simple box hives. As late as 1979, this type of hive was still the main type in use in most of Central America. Movable frame hives were present in the following numbers in these countries: El Salvador 44% Costa Rica 15% Guatemala 3-25% Belize a few Panama none (from Crane, 1990, 1999) ------------------- Dr. Marla Spivak spent much time in Costa Rica observing the onset of Africanization. She measured the cell size of the European bees before, during and after the arrival. She refers data collected by researchers as early as 1973 indicating European bees in the tropics built cells ranging from 5.0 to 5.4 mm. These bees, being kept in box hives for centuries, can hardly said to be affected by manufactured comb foundation. Africanized bee cells were found to be in the range of 4.6 to 5.0 mm, throughout South America. (In Africa, scutellata ranges from 4.7 to 4.9.) According to Spivak, European bees in Costa Rica in 1984 built comb with cells measuring [average] 5.3 mm. When African bees entered the area the numbers immediately fell to 5.0 mm. Later, the range for African bees was shown to be 4.7 to 5.1. She emphasizes that while cell size is a clear indication of Africanization, these bees do not necessarily exhibit the fierce behavior normally associated with this bee type. Even bees with cells as small as 4.7 mm were not always extremely defensive. Spivak refers to one apiary that she studied in the mountains. There were 9 hives, which the owners filled with swarms. These hives were plain boxes filled with natural comb. The AVERAGE cell size in each and every hive was 5.3 mm. The first arriving hybrid African swarms built comb around 5.0 mm and subsequent swarms (less hybridized) ranged from 4.7 to 5.0. This phenomenon was observed throughout South and Central American and is fully documented. ---------------------- From: Ahlert Schmidt Subject: Re: Natural comb cell size February 17, 2002, 6:25:35 AM I would like to comment on bee cell size. In Germany there has been beekeeping on natural combs for over five hundred years using skeps and there are still some apiaries using that technique. So there are bees that never have seen foundations for hundreds of generations. The cell size of combs constructed by these bees is still between 5.3 and 5.4 mm (805 cells per square decimeter) coming close to 5.37 mm which is the average of cell size for normal combs in Germany. See for instance F. Gerstung: Der Bien und seine Zucht. 7. Auflage 1924; or: Zander and Weiss: Handbuch der Bienenkunde Volulme 4; Verlag Eugen Ulmer 1964 (first Edition 1921). -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:31:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Jeff_Peck?= Subject: Package and Queen prices from the past... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I found this in March 1932 issue Of Gleanings in Bee Culture. I think this may be the founder of the Walter T Kelley Company http://www.acmepainting.com/scan002.jpg The Bee Farm Jeffrey Peck 121 Grassy Plain St Bethel CT 06801 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:34:27 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 22/11/2006 22:47:40 GMT Standard Time, gavin@ERROL100.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: <> I think this is it; I never saw capped cells opened and the pupae removed before I downsized. Since doing so, I've seen it persistently with two unrelated strains. I don't know exactly what's going on, but I know something is. These are apparently healthy pupae at the stage when the eyes are beginning to darken; it happens consistently at precisely this point every time. Regards, Robert Brenchley Birmingham UK -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 20:23:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Honey imported into Canada in 2006 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Irwin Harlton: You can contact the Canadian Honey Council at _www.honeycouncil.ca_ (http://www.honeycouncil.ca) or your provicial apiarist assuming you are in Canada Walter Ontario -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:19:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Jeff_Peck?= Subject: Package and queen prices from the past... REDUX Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My apologies for the broken link...Here it is again I found this in March 1932 issue Of Gleanings in Bee Culture. I think this may be the founder of the Walter T Kelley Company http://www.acmepainting.com/scan0002.jpg -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:14:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: a e Subject: queen-catching glass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Aaron & readers of BEE-List, Where can I buy a queen-catching glass ? It looks like a smoker’s pipe & the wider end can be placed over the queen on a frame. Sincerely, Abbas ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:55:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Short-lived bees after feeding pollen supplements In-Reply-To: <200611230604.kAN64oo7015384@smtp3.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wayne, The USDA did a study on feeding of pollen supplements of both artificial feeding and real pollen feeding many years ago. You should go pull the study up for it talks about similar you are stating with the pollen supplement side rather then with real pollen. shouldn't be a hard paper to find, and you should have copies of files down there. Regards, Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 10:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: queen-catching glass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by rrudd@EIRCOM.NET to the BEE-L = list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously = posted material. ________________________________ From: Ruary Rudd [mailto:rrudd@eircom.net] Subject: Re: [BEE-L] queen-catching glass Thornes of England sell it, (Plastic not glass) Ruary -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:43:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hello Robert & All, My testing of small cell is for the reason Robert shares. Dennis Murrel reports the same thing. As have others on other lists. What others report: The opening of cells happens with all races of bees on small cell. My sole purposes is to see what others are reporting myself. And obviously all comb in the hive does not need to be 4.9mm. Only in the brood nest. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:14:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: >What others report: >The opening of cells happens with all races of bees on small cell. > > Bob, I'm not about to enter the small cell fray, but it is certainly not necessary to change the cell size to observe opening of cells and removal of mite-infested pupae--it is only necessary to get VSH behavior genetically into one's bees. Randy Oliver > > > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 13:36:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: queen-catching glass Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit wrote: >Where can I buy a queen-catching glass ? >It looks like a smoker’s pipe & the wider end can >be placed over the queen on a frame. Hello Abbas! Dave E. (who is always a pleasure to talk with) has them: http://www.beeworks.com/uscatalog/details/glasscatcher.asp I bought a few glass catchers from Dave several years ago but haven’s used them yet, and continue to pic queens by hand. Seems I always remember to bring my fingers with me, but tend never to remember to bring the glass catcher. :) Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Ecologicalbeekeeping.com ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' Feral Bee Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 07:37:20 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter: These bees, being kept in box hives for centuries, canhardly said to be affected by manufactured comb foundation. Reply: If put upon foundation they build the size put in for the most part, and those in boxes were not there for centuries, while those in other containers were. Also having talked with her early on, let's say simply that foundation is foundation and other modes are other modes, and history needs to be read when comparing. Regards, Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 22:54:56 +0000 Reply-To: honeymountain@kilty.demon.co.uk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: james kilty Organization: honey mountain Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 2006-11-23 at 15:34 -0500, Robert Brenchley wrote: > I never saw capped cells opened and the pupae removed > before I downsized. Interesting. We are seeing it in our bees hived on 5.45 cells and in drones. Is it in a strain derived from my bees? -- james http://www.kilty.demon.co.uk/beekeeping/improvement.htm -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 19:57:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dee Lusby wrote: >These bees, being kept in box hives for centuries, >can hardly said to be affected by manufactured comb >foundation. > >Reply: >If put upon foundation they build the size put in for the >most part, and those in boxes were not there for centuries, >while those in other containers were. I didn't say the boxes were there for centuries. I said bees were kept in Central America for centuries and were unaffected by foundation, which poor beekeepers do not have, even to this day. I have seen hives like these in Chile and they don't even have frames. Therefore, these bees make their natural cell size. The transition from large to small cell was documented in these regions and signaled the onset of Africanization, as it would anywhere. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 20:46:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2EBDE4F > I never saw capped cells opened and the pupae removed >before I downsized. --it is only necessary to get VSH behavior genetically >into one's bees. I have to agree. My VSH bees are constantly removing brood that they don't want. Nothing small celled about these bees. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.10/541 - Release Date: 11/20/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:57:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy, If you search the archives using my name you will see all the types of bees I have tested. SMR hybrids, Marla Spivak hygienic, Purvis brothers, Russian etc. The line of Italians i was using before trying the above outproduced all of the above. I think placing my high production line ( I had one queen produce over 400 pounds in a season) in a situation where I would never have to treat for varroa worth testing for. My Italian line does not open purple eyed stage and remove varroa in my observation hives. I am looking foward to seeing the transformation when downsized on 4.9mm. I cleaned up the observation hives and can hardly wait. Hope I am not disappointed! Bob "What we don't know is so vast it makes what we do know seem absurd" -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 07:40:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-10AD5CB > >I think placing my high production line ( I had one queen produce over 400 >pounds in a season).... Bob, I think you missed your big chance. Your colony produced over 400 pounds in one season? A new world record?? The world record according to Guinness Book is 404 lbs by Ormond and Harry Aebi, in 1974. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.10/541 - Release Date: 11/20/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:58:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: A little wisdom from Richard Taylor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings! I stumbled across a collection of “Empire State Honey Producers Association” newsletters at the library. For a while it was edited by Richard Taylor. He wrote this little piece in 1975: > I was always brought up to believe that it is no expression of disrespect for another person to disagree with him. What *is* disrespectful is to express your disagreement in a rude or dogmatic way or, worse yet, to try to prevent someone from expressing his own honest opinion, or to misrepresent that opinion to others, or treat the honest and sincere expression of an opinion with which one happens to disagree as some sort of offense. I was reminded of this when someone at our summer meeting, whom I do not know, accused me of having taken “pot shots” at my friend Roger Morse, when I had questioned some very minor points in his splendid book on beekeeping. Beekeepers do not have to agree with each other. Courtesy requires that they disagree with mutual respect, each protecting the *other’s* right to say what he thinks, no matter how mistake it might seem. We beekeepers agree on a lot of things. We don’t agree on everything, whether it be the use of queen excluders, the use of antibiotics, or whatever. What we must agree on is the right of every member of our association to say what he thinks on any subject without fear of reproof from anyone. < posted by Peter Borst, November 2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:11:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by randyoliver@INFS.NET to the = BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously = posted material. ________________________________ From: Randy Oliver [mailto:randyoliver@infs.net] Sent: Sat 2006.11.25 11:30 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: [BEE-L] hello and an anatomical question Bob, I reread your post: "The opening of cells happens with all races of bees on small cell." I had misread what you were saying--that ALL bees will open on SC, not just hygienic. I am eager to follow the progress of your experiment--please keep us informed. Randy -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:13:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Comments Due on Furadan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, To help end the use of the insecticide carbofuran (Furadan), you must = act by Thursday, Nov. 30, the last day EPA is accepting comments on its = proposal to ban carbofuran (Furadan). Most of the comments posted to = date favor continued use of the insecticide, many of them by experiment = station scientists. Beekeepers and others interested in ending the use of the insecticide = need to file comments supporting the ban by Thursday, Nov. 30. Here are step by step instructions on how to file your comments = electronically via the internet --=20 Access: www.regulations.gov In the box Keyword or ID, type: EPA-HQ-OPP-2005-0162 Click: Submit Document Search Results should bring up EPA-HQ-OPP-2005-0162. At the far right, under Comments, click on the symbol. (To read comments = already posted, click on EPA-HQ-OPP-2005-0162 in the first column.) On the Comment Form, fill in your company name, if any, and your name. Type your comments into the General Comments box. If you want your = address included in the public comments, you have to include it in the = comments. At the bottom, click Next Step and follow the other prompts. Following are the comments I filed on behalf of the ABF. Feel free adapt = these to your use, as you see fit. Troy =20 =20 =20 =20 Opposing Reregistration of Carbofuran =20 RE: Docket Identification Number EPA-HQ-OPP-2005-0162 =20 These comments are filed on behalf of the American Beekeeping = Federation, a nationwide trade association composed of beekeepers, honey = processors, bee supply manufacturers and dealers, and other interested = parties. Founded in 1943, ABF has about 1,200 members spread across the = country. Our beekeeper members range from hobbyists with one or two = colonies to multi-state commercial beekeepers operating tens of = thousands of colonies; they are involved in honey production, = pollination, bee breeding, and all other aspects of beekeeping. =20 It was with a great deal of satisfaction that we read of the EPA's = recommendation that the use of carbofuran (Furadan) be phased out. The = pesticide has been one of the most deadly for honey bees over its nearly = 40 years of use. =20 In 1997, Gene Brandi, an ABF beekeeper-member from California, conducted = a survey for the ABF to assess the scope of pesticide-caused losses to = honey bees. That survey found that Furadan (carbofuran) was blamed most = often for bee deaths of all the pesticides listed by the beekeeper = respondents.=20 =20 Most insecticides are lethal to honey bees, but the uses of carbofuran = are so pervasive and the chemical itself is so lethal, that beekeepers = single it out as the worst of the worst. Unfortunately, many of the = plants on which carbofuran is used for pest protection are plants = visited by honey bees collecting pollen and nectar. In recent years, = many new insecticides have been developed that are more selective than = carbofuran, providing needed pests control without damaging beneficial = insects. =20 Through their pollination activities, honey bees provide an important = service to agriculture, to ornamental plantings, and to the environment. = A Cornell University study, conducted in 1999 found that honey bee = pollination added $14.6 billion to the value of 51 individual fruit, = nut, vegetable and field crops grown in the United States. This compared = to a similar study in 1989 that calculated $9.3 billion in added value = from honey bee pollination. =20 The American Beekeeping Federation urges that the recommendation to end = the use of carbofuran be upheld and that the use of this dangerous = chemical come to an end. =20 Thank you for considering our comments. =20 Sincerely, =20 Troy H. Fore Jr. Executive Director American Beekeeping Federation, Inc. P.O. Box 1337 Jesup, GA 31598 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:55:40 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All > < behaviour.>> > > I think this is it; .... (wrote Robert Brenchley) Perhaps it is time to expand (e) a little based on Dennis Murrell's observations, those of Harbo and Harris, and comments here. e) Some bees are genetically predisposed to identify, open and clean brood with reproducing Varroa mites(*). However many or all strains may be induced to show this behaviour when brood is raised on the naturally small cells found in the core part of natural brood nests. Such a cleansing would be of evolutionary advantage to the honeybee, perhaps for other brood pests too, and may indeed have been suppressed by the introduction of manufactured foundation of uniform size. (*) where 'reproducing' means egg-laying or with young mites only, see: http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=192539 But this begs the question: is VSH and the bald brood seen in small cell colonies the same phenomenon but just triggered differently? Are bees selective in the cells they open in both cases, or is a whole slab of brood affected? Is it always seasonal in the same way? Incidently, there seems to be a 'Chinese whispers' effect on VSH. A quick 'Google' brought up these variants, the first by Harris and Harbo and so authentic: Varroa-Sensitive Hygiene Varroa-Sensitive Hygienic (bees) Varroa-Sensitive hygienic behavior Varroa-Specific Hygiene Varroa Suppression Hygiene all the best Gavin -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 13:50:30 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 25/11/2006 18:33:49 GMT Standard Time, gavin@ERROL100.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: But this begs the question: is VSH and the bald brood seen in small cell colonies the same phenomenon but just triggered differently? Are bees selective in the cells they open in both cases, or is a whole slab of brood affected? Is it always seasonal in the same way? Gavin, How do you suggest the question you posed be answered accurately? Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:03:53 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: VSH In-Reply-To: <00a501c710ba$ed0f1aa0$04000005@mshome.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gavin Ramsay wrote: Incidentally, there seems to be .... variants, the first by Harris and Harbo and so authentic: Varroa-Sensitive Hygiene Varroa-Sensitive Hygienic (bees) Varroa-Sensitive hygienic behavior Varroa-Specific Hygiene Varroa Suppression Hygiene In my dealings with the Baton Rouge Bee Lab, the term Varroa Suppression Hygiene was used. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:03:17 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How do you suggest the question you posed be answered accurately? Hmmnn ... tricky! I can't think of an experiment to conclusively demonstrate that VSH is or is not SC-hygiene with the brakes off. You might make inferences from asking if the behaviours look the same. So ... Are cells with mite eggs or youngsters targetted in both SC and VSH, cells with only older daughter mites targetted less, and cells with non-reproductive females ignored? Do SC and VSH both show hygienic behaviour with the same seasonal bias? If you investigate VSH bees on naturally-drawn comb do you see more effective uncapping in area of the comb with smaller cells? Any better ideas? Gavin -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:47:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 25/11/2006 18:33:49 GMT Standard Time, gavin@ERROL100.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: <> All I can say is that mine open cells on an apparently random pattern. I've never seen either a whole slab opened, or the lines of opened cells that others have described when the bees appeared to be cleaning out wax worms. What I haven't done, yet, is investigate to see whether they're preferentially opening cells containing mites. Regards, Robert Brenchley Birmingham UK -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:53:37 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bob, I think you missed your big chance. Your colony produced over 400 > pounds in one season? A new world record?? The world record according to > Guinness Book is 404 lbs by Ormond and Harry Aebi, in 1974. Surely it must be greater than this. There are many cases of beekeepers in Australia averaging 600 pounds a hive for the year. This is average so some individual hives would have produced more. Trevor Waetherhead AUSTRALIA Come and see these hives before or after Apimondia next year -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:21:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 25/11/2006 23:55:35 GMT Standard Time, RSBrenchley@AOL.COM writes: What I haven't done, yet, is investigate to see whether they're preferentially opening cells containing mites. I have occasionally found a mite in the cell next to an opened one. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:35:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Re: hello aaand an anatomical question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael, The hive caused quite a stir from me and my friend Glenn Davis. I have been a long time customer of queens from Glenda & Shannon Wooten ( Homer Park line). The story starts with a 100 lot of queens. I have to admit I joke with Glenda when ordering and told her to send me the queens she sends to her best customers but I placed the order the fall before so I hardly think she sent me other than regular run queens. Anyway I installed the queens in four yards and they all performed above average. All hives were treated exactly alike. Started with same amount of brood. Treated exactly alike. While verifing queens I noticed this one queen was a dynamo. Hell she was filling two boxes with bees. Big slabs of brood out to the edges. I finally gave her a 6 5/8 extra to give her room to lay. When the honey flow started her hive started filling supers and never slowed down. In fact I placed two deeps of foundation to try slow her down. We tried to weight the total supers ( and weigh empties after extraction) and we figured the weight was over 400 pounds and close to 420. I told Shannon Wooten about the queen and he wanted her back as a breeder but I hate to admit I got busy getting hives ready to send to almonds and she was sent. I did not mark the hive so lost track of her. Very dumb on my part as I would love to have used her in a breeding program. I read the book about the 404 record hive. The boys documented all the way through. By the time I knew she was going to set a record for me proper documentation for a record was past. I have had hives which made well over 400 pounds in a year while keeping bees in Florida but the bees were on Orange, Gallberry, Palmata, Mangrove, wildflower and the clover fields of Ocala horse farms. 5 or 6 moves in a year. I never made 400 pounds on a single flow in Florida,kansas or Missouri before her. I never cared about a record nor did I record but my friend Glenn Davis (Bell Hill Honey ) remembers the hive and will back up what I say. What Glenn remembers the most is when the main honey flow had stopped I put a deep of foundation on and the bes drew out and plugged the hive. Bees are amazing at times. bob -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:42:16 -0600 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: <002401c710ec$eee80da0$688a453d@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 404 Lbs by the Abeis was the last record I heard about too. Its in their books. I also saw the latest guiness, but I didn't have time to find anything about bees or beekeeping in the book when I had it in my hands. It could be that your 600lbs per hive beekeepers aren't keeping accurate enough records to do it. I think one of the requirements to be listed is you only harvest the honey one time and keep the utmost detailed of records, but I don't really know, I am just supposing. -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:08:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Curtis_Crowell?= Subject: Bee Homosexual Behavior Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I give several school presentations each year, and this year for the first time ever, I was asked by a 7th grader "are there gay bees?" I have googled this and come up empty, except for some obscure reference to this this topic possibly in a NEWSWEEK issue, which I am persuing. Given that homosexual behavior would seem to mimic heterosexual behavior except that it occurs between members of the same gender, and that the heterosexual behavior (i.e. mating behavior) results in the death of the male, I can't fathom that "gay" behavior exists at all among honey bees. Further, the majority of bees in a colony, namely the workers, engage in no sexual activity whatsoever as far as I know. My answer to the question was a "qualified no" but I was just curious if any one else had a different perspective here. Generally I shy away from discussing reproductive issues with elementary school children (OK for college students or adults) but this question was pretty blunt and felt it deserved a response. I am also reminded of an earlier PETA website detailing the "cruel" practice of beeekeepers wereby we deprive bees of proper sex lives, or words to that effect, referring to assexual workers. So there is a lot of misinformation out there and I am working to reduce that....... C.Crowell Hightstown, NJ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:38:12 +0000 Reply-To: honeymountain@kilty.demon.co.uk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: james kilty Organization: honey mountain Subject: Re: hello and an anatomical question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 2006-11-25 at 13:50 -0500, Chris Slade wrote: > is VSH and the bald brood seen > in small cell colonies the same phenomenon but just > triggered differently? Rodger will hopefully be doing a Ph.D. and might be able to answer this question on our bees hived on 5.45mm. A daily photo of the development of a new frame will show quite a lot (say, day 10-21). We both have these traits plus significant grooming damage. My highest chewing was in July/August during/after the summer flow and later in one colony after the ivy, when a whole side of brood was removed leaving a second later frame pristine. -- james kilty http://www.kilty.demon.co.uk/beekeeping/improvement.htm -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:14:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan&jan Subject: Re: Comments Due on Furadan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>its proposal to ban carbofuran (Furadan<< Tell me why I should support the ban on Furadan? Data please. Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC zone 6a -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:16:47 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Fw: [BEE-L] hello and an anatomical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It could be that your 600lbs per hive beekeepers aren't keeping accurate > enough records to do it. Incorrect. The records are accurate and I would challenge you to prove differently. As an example back about 1951, Tim Smith, who founded Capilano, extracted 3,000 tins ( 60 pounds in a tin) from 300 hives. That is 10 tins per hive so is 600 pounds per hive. Try telling Tim he didn't keep accurate records. So if you use a normal bell curve, then it stands to reason that some hives would have produced a lot more per hive than the 600 pounds. > I think one of the requirements to be listed is > you only harvest the honey one time and keep the utmost detailed of > records, but I don't really know, I am just supposing. This is a new twist. Extracted at one time? Seems a bit suspicious to me. It would be very easy to rig a result like this. I could just add supers and at the end of the seasone extract it. I am talking about honey extracted in a season. If you look at the post it says ( and I have copied it so this should be accurate) "I had one queen produce over 400 pounds in a season". Notice it says in a season, not in one harvest. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 23:22:22 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Beekeepers in Egypt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am planning a trip to Luxor and wonder if anyone has any beekeeping = contacts there. Google only seems to find info anout beekeepers that = lived a few thousand years ago! Peter Edwards -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:42:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: hello aaand an anatomical question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Commenting on Bob's post of a record honey crop on a single hive. In 2003 I purchased some hives from a retiring beekeeper who is a close friend of mine. In the spring we culled comb from them and equalized them after wintering over. Each hive in my operation is assigned a number and we track information in a database. My notes from that day of equalizing noted a particular hive #502 had a tremendous amount of brood for late April here in Mn like 2 deeps and a supers worth!. Anyhow that #502 hive put on 13 boxes of honey that summer , 10 were 6 5/8 and 3 were deeps. Some of the supers had new foundation. My beekeeper friend and I both use Strachan NWC queens but we're not entirely sure if she was a swarm cell queen or one directly from Strachans. She just came along with the hives I purchased The bees in that hive are a bit hot as compared to other carniolans we run but not red-line. I notice they are prolific wax and comb builders too. In the following 2 years that hive out performed by a factor of 2 or 3 times all other hives in that yard but did not come close to that 2003 crop. As I wrapped my bees this fall she is still alive and the hive looks well. I really should have done something with her..... -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:53:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: hello aaand an anatomical question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-739F4E23 > #502 hive put on 13 boxes of honey that summer , 10 >were 6 5/8 and 3 were deeps. I really should have done something with >her..... If she's alive this coming season, why not raise some daughters? Or, send her to me, and I will. :-) Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.17/553 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:26:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?D._Murrell?=" Subject: Oxalic Acid Use Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Guys, I've just got my December ABJ. It has the best article I've ever seen on oxalic acid use. Randy Oliver's 'Oxalic Acid:Questions, Answers and More Questions' is a must read for anyone thinking of using oxalic. Don't even think of trying dribbling without reading this one. The article contains the latest information, dosages and web resources. It has a recipe section with appropriate batch sizes for 5 to 200 hives. And it contains a great common sense approach for using oxalic safely. This is the first in a two part series. The next part focuses on oxalic vaporization. Regards Dennis Thinking, using oxalic acid is a first big step away from the pesticide treadmill. And if that's as far as some get, it's along ways from using organophosphates in a hive. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---