From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:29:51 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-93.7 required=2.4 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D67F449094 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SF1MMQ014128 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0611E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 28317 Lines: 730 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:32:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: almond pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, Can a California beekeeper tell me if Stanislaus County in California will accept hives stopped at the border for SHB and perhaps provide the county commisioners contact number? Thanks in advance! bob -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:47:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D. Murrell wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Don't even > think of trying dribbling without reading this one. > > Since I do not get the ABJ, just curious if there is any new info on any resistance of Varroa to OA? Also, the only issues I know of with OA is concentration is critical and more than one treatment in fall or winter is a no-no. Anything new there? Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:52:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D. Murrell wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I've just got my December ABJ. It has the best article I've ever seen on > oxalic acid use. One other question- since OA is not an approved pesticide for use in the US, how does the ABJ get around this issue in promoting its use? (My guess is in its use elsewhere and this is just a report on what the rest of the world is doing. But don't try this at home.) Bill Truesdell (now heavily invested in wood bleach manufacturers) Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:32:10 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use In-Reply-To: <456D8F63.1000902@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Truesdell wrote: Since I do not get the ABJ, just curious if there is any new info on any resistance of Varroa to OA? > Hi Bill, I'll send you a copy by email. I will have a website up and running in a few days so anyone can view my articles after they've been published by ABJ. As far as resistance, I'm only hearing rumors. However, if OA is all that people use, I have no doubt that resistant mites will develop. Randy Oliver > > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:00:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Bill, The question of publishing articles about methods of treatment not yet registered has been problematic for both ABJ & BC. I can not speak for Joe Graham & Kim Flottum but I have asked both about their position. It seems they both feel varroa continues to deal beekeepers fits. Both large & small. A real need exists for the bee magazines to publish what others are doing to control varroa. Especially soft treatments. I commend both for having the courage to publish articles by beekeepers about not yet registered treatments for beekeeping pests they are using to control pests! I think all of us realize all beekeeping is local but I find it interesting to read the methods used by other beekeepers. Some I would never use and others I might would consider maybe in the future. I have not yet read Randy Olivers article but those which have have said the article is well done. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:10:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use In-Reply-To: <456DB60A.1080408@infs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-33FE7010 > just curious if there is any new info on any resistance of Varroa to OA? > However, if OA is all that people use, I have no doubt that resistant > mites will develop. >Randy Oliver Why? I would think that Varroa would have a hard, if not impossible time becoming resistant to the acidity of OA. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.17/553 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:01:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Open Air Feral Honeybee Nest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All! Check out these pics of an open air feral nest. Found in Ontario! -----> Honeybee hive at Ruthven "Here are some pictures of a large honeybee hive that was recently found on Ruthven's property. Quite phenomenal." http://birdbanding.blogspot.com/2006/11/honeybee-hive-at-ruthven.html -----> Joe Waggle Ecologicalbeekeeping.com ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' Feral Bee Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:14:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20061129170640.044f91a0@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Palmer wrote: > > Why? I would think that Varroa would have a hard, if not impossible > time becoming resistant to the acidity of OA. > Mike > I would never say impossible since you are dealing with a bug that reproduces quickly, so you can have many generations over a short period. So things can happen that allow resistance (tolerance) so the separation between the dose that kills the mite is closer to the dose that harms the bee.At that point, treatments would be counter-productive. (But the bee may also be more tolerant, so it could be a moving target. Who knows?) Even humans can develop a tolerance for many poisons, like arsenic. My guess is that it, if it does happen (and I tend to agree with Mike, that it will not), will take longer than the ten years for Apistan. We shall see it first in Europe, so they will let us know. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:16:36 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Hear, Hear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, A question has come up as to whether honey bees can hear sound or just merely detect vibrations. Can Honey bees hear sound? . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:50:44 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Open Air Feral Honeybee Nest In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe: Nice pictures and from darkness of much of the comb they have been there awhile. Next question would be: What size are the cells in the broodnest?.... Also, where else besides here could there be other such nests if looked for in Canada? Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:35:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use In-Reply-To: <456E3E95.7000000@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resistance (tolerance) to the presence of Oxalic acid by Varroa mites should be an interesting phenomena to study. AFAIK, most resistance mechanisms are due to the inherent weakness of interfering with a metabolic process. The target organism shows a mutation to an involved enzyme pathway and Bob's your uncle! Compounds that attack by physically causing damage may become less effective (due to few things being impossible) but I would be pleased to hear of such an example. The talk of future OA tolerance is due to comparison with previous treatments. Since the mode of attack by OA on VD is not clear - I suggest that this would be one position to clarify. Does OA have an efficacy due to metabolic interference or an ability to physical damage the mites? Once the above questions are sorted the discussion on future resistance would have more of a solid footing than at present. Regards, Peter -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:56:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Hear, Hear In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:16 PM 11/29/2006, you wrote: >Hi All, > >A question has come up as to whether honey bees can hear sound or just merely detect vibrations. Can Honey bees hear sound? Quote: "Abstract: Although the airborne sounds produced by dancing honey bees seem essential in the bees' dance communication, attempts to show directly that bees can detect airborne sounds have been unsuccessful. It is shown here that bees can in fact detect airborne sounds and that they do so by detecting air-particle movements. Most vertebrates, by contrast, detect pressure oscillations. Because all traveling sound waves have both components, either can be used in sound detection. The bees' acoustic sense appears to be sensitive enough to allow bees to detect the air-particle movements that occur within several millimeters of a sound-emitting dancer. " From "Hearing in Honey Bees: Detection of Air-Particle Oscillations" http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1989Sci...244..686T So, it appears they do hear, but perhaps differently then we do. Of course when you get down to it hearing is just detecting vibrations of air particles. -Tim -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:08:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David Croteau Subject: Re: Open Air Feral Honeybee Nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Joe, How would anyone figure out bee-space by looking at those combs, there doesn’t appear to bee much 3/8th space there??? Dave -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:02:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Griggs Mike Subject: $80/ lb paid for Sugar maple pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi, Talked with a Canadian researcher who is looking for 15-30 lbs of Sugar maple pollen--not red maple, perhaps silver maple would be ok. If you submit a sample that proves to be something like 90% sugar maple pollen he will pay $80 per pound. Might be that someone would be willing to trap during the coming Sugar maple flowering to get this price. For further information call Calvin Davis 613-634-8425 Or e-mail Norma.Davis@sympatico.ca Serious inquiries only! ------------------------------- I can provide some info & offered to help track down this pollen as well so give me an e-mail or info if you know someone that might have the above pollen. Mike Griggs President Finger Lakes Beekeepers mhg3@cornell.edu -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:09:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan&jan Subject: Re: Hear, Hear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is the difference between sound and vibrations? or is it in the eye of the beholder or frequency? Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC zone 6a -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:15:34 -0500 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Hear, Hear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look up "Johnston's Organ", as that is where the airborne sound is detected. William Towne of Kutztown University, Kutztown, PA could talk your ear off about the subject. He written a number of good papers about sound and bees. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:59:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Hicks Subject: New Varroa control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was with interest that I read the agenda of the California State = Beekeepers Ass. recent convention. One of the advertised speakers was = from Wellmark. Could someone who was at the meeting comment on that = presentation. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:24:36 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20061129170640.044f91a0@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Palmer wrote: > Why? I would think that Varroa would have a hard, if not impossible > time becoming resistant to the acidity of OA. > Mike Hi Mike, OA, used once each fall/winter in rotation with other treatments, will likely be effective for a long time. Unfortunately, there are those using OA vaporization on a regular basis throughout the year, and as their sole varroa control. I would not be surprized if their mites eventually develop acid resistance, which would be very unfortunate. As Bill says, we will likely see it first in Europe. I suggest that OA not be used as a "silver bullet," but rather as one component in an integrated varroa control strategy. My upcoming articles will address this. Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:23:05 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Hear, Hear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Thanks for the response. > The bees' acoustic sense appears to be sensitive enough to allow bees = to detect the air-particle movements that occur within several = millimeters of a sound-emitting dancer. > Does anyone know the mechanics behind the sound detection? Thanks, . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:56:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Hear, Hear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:09:27 -0500, Dan&jan wrote: >What is the difference between sound and vibrations? or is it in the eye of >the beholder or frequency? The ear. But seriously, perhaps some of you have seen the amazing documentary: "Touch the Sound" > TOUCH THE SOUND takes us on a remarkable journey with Evelyn Glennie, one of the world's foremost musicians, a Grammy-winning classical percussionist whose solo work is unrivalled. She is also deaf. Evelyn overcame considerable obstacles to become an extraordinary success. > Through her, sound is palpable and rhythm is the basis of everything. Without vibration, there is nothing. From silence to music, from hearing to seeing and to feeling, sound is felt through every sense in our body. Hearing is a form of touch, she says. http://www.touch-the-sound.com pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:47:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Open Air Feral Honeybee Nest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello David! Good observation! I like to look closely at feral nests to try and see (or guess) what is happening (there is a story to tell in every feral nest). Looks like the picture was taken sometime in October or November. It appears that most of the unprotected comb has been robbed out, and or consumed, and the colony reduced to protecting the core. Also, we might assume it is a cool day because in picture number three, many of the bees are clustered on the warm south side of the nest and not many flying. Interesting also that the comb was built north to south in this exposed nest. Looking at the picture, there appears to be a knot hole in the tree just above the nest. In telling a ‘story of what may have happened‘, I like to think that the void inside the tree was scouted and the main objective. But for some reason, the swarm ended up landing on the tree and built comb there instead of entering. I really can’t tell if there is tracking stain or propolis at the knot hole which might suggest this is where the colony originated. An old queen possibly unable to take flight, may have crawled out the entrance and founded the colony right there on side of the tree! Getting to your bee space observation, which is really interesting one. It appears in pic number 5 that the comb space does get a bit narrower, and comb straighter towards the top, but still not quite as small as the 5/16 bee space. This ‘larger bee’ space is common in large open air nest that I have seen. My guess is it’s either an accidental ‘warping effect’ caused by the weight of many many combuilders attempting measure out bee space with no firm surface to measure from causing a warp of comb to one side. OR, comb is designed wider on purpose. As the colony expands in numbers, there would be an obvious need for a place where foragers can hang out. This would be an absolute necessity in an open air nest. This greater space may also serve to create a protective shield of many bees against the elements and predators. You can see in the pics just how many bees are hanging out at the parameter of the nest creating a complete bee barrier. Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Ecologicalbeekeeping.com ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' Feral Bee Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:43:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Open Air Feral Honeybee Nest In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit there doesn’t appear to bee much 3/8th space there??? Reply: But bee space is smaller the more naturally smaller the cells go. Also too much space makes for nosema disease. Again, seeing the pictures, would sure like to see the natural size spacing measured here for both. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:00:30 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Erin Martin Subject: Re: Hear, Hear In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Does anyone know the mechanics behind the sound > detection? There's a decent primer on sound detection and dance sounds from Scientific American up here: http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/bee_dance_2.htm ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:13:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bob darrell Subject: Re: Oxalic Acid Use In-Reply-To: <456E5F8A.8030409@mts.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v728) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 29-Nov-06, at 11:35 PM, Peter Dillon wrote: > Resistance (tolerance) to the presence of Oxalic acid by Varroa > mites should be an interesting phenomena to study. Hi Peter and all While I believe Oxalic as well as Formic acids have been studied(in Canada and Europe where they are legal) I don't know the answer. The question of 'how does Oxalic damage the mites?' was asked at our recent meeting of the Dufferin Beekeepers Assoc. The instructions for using Oxalic on varroa mites, as published by the Canadian Honey Council, state that it must be done late in the fall when there is no brood present, that it should not be used more than once per season and it should be used in support of another approved treatment(ie formic, apistan) as a final 'cleanup' treatment Resistance to various chemicals is documented, but I have never seen any reports of resistance to Formic acid or Oxalic. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W44N -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---