From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:26:45 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4407149079 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SF1MM4014128 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:50 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0612B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 125405 Lines: 2707 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 03:11:08 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rossy Castillo Subject: contact nedeed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I need to contact with beekeepers from New Zeland , Would anybody from there write me please?There is a very good friend of mine there , he is a beekeeper and need some contacts, so I would appreciated somebody please write me. Many thanks beforehand. Rossy Castillo Chile Sudamérica -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 11:41:23 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Steve Rose Subject: Re: O A vaporization In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Burgess wrote: >> I would have thought that by "dehydrate" the translator might have >> meant "without water" which would have been "anhydrate" > > The original German text which is also available on the Swiss Dairy > website is clear that it is the dihydrate which has been used. > Thanks for clarifying that John, and thank you Bill for your input. For the last 2 years I have been using oxalic acid in accordance with the concentrations briefly described in the Central Science Laboratory's document "Managing Varroa". They specify "3.2 - 4.2% acid solution trickled over combs of bees; 2.5ml per brood comb". I had assumed that their acid concentration meant anhydrite and that the low dose per comb was due to the small cluster sizes usually found in British colonies and the small BS frames that most of us use. I had obtained my pack of acid crystals from Thornes last year assuming it would be the form recommended. I discovered today that even Thornes did not know what form they were supplying but a call to their own suppliers confirmed that my pack was, indeed, dihydrite. However, just to muddy the water a little, during a previous discussion with them an acquaintance of mine was told that beekeepers use anhydrite. Best regards Steve Rose -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:15:03 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Apimondia 2007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Apimondia 2007 website www.apimondia2007.com now contains full = details for the "World Honey Show" Go to the website and on the menu = you will be able to click on the World Honey Show where you will get = details on entry conditions, entry forms and the quarantine requirements = to bring the entries into Australia. As you will see the quarantine = requirements are very easy to comply with and no one should have any = problems bringing in their entries. I hope you are planning to enter = the World Honey Show. Also on the menu are the details for the Honey Queen Competition. Hoping you are planning to come to Apimondia 2007 in Melbourne Australia Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Hoping to meet you at Apimondia 2007 in Melbourne -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:53:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Waldo on TV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all: Lew Best posted this earlier on organicbeekeepers. D- In a message dated 12/08/2006 9:45:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, bee_keeper@earthlink.net writes: Hey yall I know this was mentioned earlier; it aired tonight but if you missed it it's on the web. Go to http://www.cbsnews.com ; click on "Americas oldest worker" (upper left corner) &watch the video. 104 years old; still keeping bees &selling honey. Video on website shows more than aired on TV. If not still there look on all videos on the right side of web page. Worth watching imho! Lew ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:46:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?=93The_Latest_Bee-Kill_has_Experts_Stumped=93?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, The news in Pennsylvania concerning the outlook for honeybee colony survival this winter is typically described in many news articles (similar to the one at the bottom of the page) as a grave. Some beekeepers are already reporting colony losses this year here in PA. (See link to ARTICLE at the bottom of the letter) I was asked earlier this year by some neighboring beekeepers to inspect their colonies in mid July to try and help determine why they weren’t doing so well. Looking at these colonies, the cause was obvious and the symptoms were many. Mite populations were what I would describe as very low and also not the time of year one might expect to see severe stress from mites (so mite pressure and associated disease ruled out here). The bees themselves and brood nest generally appeared to be in rather good health, and I was satisfied that there were no brood related disease or stress factors affecting the health and broodnest function in these colonies. What I like to see during late June to July, is colonies in my area should be rather heavy with stores and brood, and one occasionally needs to open up the broodnest to insure proper development and productivity. But there was an obvious absence of a honey cap and nectar near the broodnest in these colonies, and apparently a lack of nectar intake was having a severe impact on broodnest development and colony growth, as many colonies were very light and only managing to rear only very small amounts of brood. Looking at the affected 2006 seasons package bees, and weak colonies, the outlook for survival appears to be grave. For comparison, the majority of my colonies were a bit light on stores, but still managing a sufficient nectar intake to maintain a very strong productive broodnest and population throughout the summer. Inspecting my 2006 feral swarms; about one half of these also appeared to be coping remarkably well. Looking back at the year, it seemed like the nectar flow in May was rather normal, but was basically non existent as the early flow progressed thru the end of May into June, at the time when colonies here need to be packing the broodnest with much of the pollen and honey needed for summer carryover and fall flow build up, and swarms and packages also needing the nutrition at this time for colony growth and summer carry over. IMO, because the symptoms stated above, and that the losses are occurring over the vast regional area, weather is certainly a potential culprit. And because some mature colonies as well as 2006 feral swarms appear to be coping much better than others, it suggests genetics is playing an obvious role here also. IMO, these losses some are experiencing in Pennsylvania this 2006 season are the result of a natural weather fluctuation that occurs every so often. But this particular fluctuation is having an extreme impact because of the timing of the occurance. It happened to occur around the time of the second half of the early flow, at a time highly important for colony developmental growth, summer carryover and fall buildup, especially for colonies in first year growth. Another example natural weather fluctuation timed with other stresses to cause high losses, is the weather fluctuation that coincided with varroa infestations during 95-96 to cause very high colony losses over a vast region in the north east. It is simply, natures way of occasionally culling the poor genetics and bringing the honeybee back into balance with it’s environment. Any poor genetics can handle one stress at a time, but compounding stresses will stress the poor genetics the most. YES, weak colonies and young colonies will have a exceptionally difficult time, and some regional areas more than others, but it basically comes down to genetics fit for your environmental conditions. The key might be to resist blaming the weather for this problem and place blame on genetics where it belongs. Perhaps, now’s the time to record which colonies outperformed in these extreme conditions for expansion next season, and non performers for potential elimination. A lack of teaching of our beekeepers the lost art of evaluating and breeding the best bee seems to show itself every few years. And many areas could benifit from a development of some type of beekeeping program focused on the basics of evaluating and breeding honeybee stock fit for our enviornment. ARTICLE: “Forget the spy mystery -- what's killing the bees?” http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_483406.html Joe Waggle Ecologicalbeekeeping.com ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' Feral Bee Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 13:50:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: =?windows-1252?Q?=93The_Latest_Bee-Kill_has__Experts_Stumped=93?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There was a lack of surplus in various parts of Maine during the summer, but there were parts that did fine. Survival because of no food is really not a matter of genetics, because if you cut someone's food source out all will suffer. But let us presume that genetics rules in this case. A lack of nectar would allow lesser populated colonies to survive, so you would be selecting for bees that did not produce much surplus since they would never be well populated. I seem to have heard this before in the prior discussion on Varroa resistant bees, that they were not good producers of an excess of honey. But they survive. But then again, so do mine and I do everything wrong. Hence, we are back at square one. There is one thing that we need to understand. We are not changing the bee's DNA when we go through any selection process. What we are selecting for is what is already there but not a main attribute. So in every group of colonies there are many similarities as well as some differences, just like we see in those around us. If we select for a certain trait, it does not mean that other traits that may be in opposition to the one we are selecting for go away, especially if that trait is artificial. So, when there is a dearth of nectar, some colonies will succumb while others will not in the same apiary, managed under the same conditions. That another apiary fairs better probably has little to do with genetics but to the local conditions including the beekeeper. I have always seen that good beekeepers have good bees. I just think we make too much of genetics and try to weave a cloth that is not there. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 13:52:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Chem Sensors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy asked when we were going to produce a chem sensor to sniff colonies for diseases, mites, etc. That's an obvious approach, but may not be the best, given current technologies. After 33 years of sampling everything from ag chemicals, pesticides, industrial pollutants, military chemicals, urban materials, radioactive fallout, and even biological agents (from microbial pesticides to anthrax surrogates), we know a little bit about chem sampling. The reasons that we don't have a field portable, do-it-all sensor include: 1) Cost -- good analytical instruments can run from 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars, 2) Specificity -- even the best instruments and sensors have a limited or narrow range of types of chemicals that can be reliably detected. - In the lab, we use different instruments and often different labs to cover all of the chemicals that we would need to examine -- if you want to protect/assess colony health, you are going to need to be able to detect materials indicative of each disease and pest (often unknown) and you'd ideally want to look for other things like build up of residues/vapors from things like miticides, contaminants like HMF from bad syrup, etc. 3) Sensitivity -- most field portable instruments give up sensitivity for size, battery life, etc. 4) Availability -- in many cases the technology still does not exist. Surprisingly, we can't find good information on the chemicals that give foul brood such a distinctive odor, much less a sensor. 5) Funding -- we get some very large grants, but our funding agencies have very specific interests and place restrictions on our expenditures -- we are a university-based and private company organization -- all of our $$ come from clients with specific interests, and those are mainly the military. We get no money from the university, state, or any federal agency for day to day expenditures, discretionary research. We're in a mode that one of my colleagues calls: data for dollars. We'd love to get some funding to look at things like designing sensors for sampling hives -- but this again is high cost work - a few thousand dollars won't cover the R&D. Let's take a look at some examples from our chem sampling experience -- to look at volatile and sem-volatile industrial and military contaminants, we use a Gas Chromatograph/Mass Spectrometer with a thermal desorption unit -- for the whole system, including sampling pumps, we've spent about $250,000 -- and 10 years ago, we spent $175k for our first unit, which has worn out. Cost is probably the reasons that we were using vapor sampling systems in 1995, while the national bee labs have only recently started using similar approaches. But, our GC/MS instruments are not set up to do pesticides. Another lab in another department, with about $500,000 in instruments does that. Heavy metals, trace elements -- we use Inductively Coupled Plasma Spectrometry (ICP) - unless we are looking from arsenic, mercury - then we either interface yet another device with the ICP or switch to Atomic Absorption Spectrometry. Radionuclides -- whole different lab and instruments. None of these instruments are appropriate for field use, and samples often have to be prepped prior to analysis - which can take a day or more. We have used field portable instruments - ranging from simple to state-of-the-art, not yet available to the public or even commercial labs. Examples include FIDO, the explosives sniffing unit that is slowing gaining acceptance, and much more recent instruments including the SANDIA labs HOUND unit, Oak Ridge Lab's suitcase-sized ion trap, and we hope to try an very small portable, ion trap that SANDIA intends to test next summer. So far, none are appropriate for evaluating colony health. Two new areas of research that may help solve this problem are polymer-based sensors and nano-based instruments. I regularly review proposals in these areas -- the polymers are exciting, offer simple, low cost devices for detecting specific chemicals. Problem is, there doesn't seem to be a good way of designing materials for particular needs, its more of a trial and error process with different materials. For example, FIDO does well at detecting DNT, so it seemed like it would be easy to find a polymer for TNT -- not nearly as easy as it sounds - after several years, I believe they're still trying to find the elusive material to use in the sensor. So, in the meantime, we wait for the technological breakthrough, and we consult with other scientists who do have some funding to look at things like foul brood detection. We continue to look for funding to develop some of these sensors -- but its easier to get federal funding to find chem warfare agents, meth labs, or dead bodies than it is to get the level of funding needed to pioneer new tools for detecting chemicals inside beehives that have use by beekeepers. Unfortunately, beekeeping has a much more limited commercial potential in terms of sales then does army force protection or homeland security, and monitoring honey bee health doesn't have the public concern/support afforded human health protection. And other than USDA, few other federal agencies recognize the strategic importance of honey bees and pollination in terms of protecting our nation's food supply chain. This does not mean that we aren't always looking for simple sensors that can detect bee problems, especially since we intend to start testing, hopefully marketing pallets that can monitor things like weight changes in bee colonies, hive temperatures, and weather - transmitting this all to the beekeeper via satellite, for a cost of about $5 per month -- maybe as early as this summer. We also think that we have a different way of monitoring the health of bee colonies -- one that uses sound, not chemicals. Early results are exciting -- we can detect varroa mites, foul brood, queenless colonies, some races of bees, should be able to predict swarms, and are guessing that we can detect hive beetle, using a simple acoustic probe - with no need to open the hive, and with a result in under 2 minutes. We've applied to federal agencies for funding to make this happen -- which is iffy and will take months/years. We're also going to be at the national beekeeping meetings, talking about this new approach on which we've filed for U.S. and Canadian patent. We're looking for investors (beekeepers, growers, hopefully the national beekeeping organizations). With sufficient funds, we could have a couple of dozen handheld units in the field next summer for testing by large commercial beekeepers and bee researchers. Keep your fingers crossed, and we will be delighted to talk to you in January. Cheers Jerry J.J. Bromenshenk -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 18:03:20 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: K&W Jarrett Subject: overwintering hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all, Hope your bees are wintering well, but if not, here are some thoughts of mine why not. After pollen feeding in fall, syrup is the next most important step. Feed as much as they will take and as quickly as you can, don't trickle the syrup in over time. Some feed type 55 hfcs, a VERY POOR choice, use only 50% or more with sucrose and 100% is best, that's what I feed. What this does is keeps the sugar liquid during the consumption stage(winter) and is easily digested by the bees(invert).Also, how many have feed fumagilin-B last fall? Nosema here in Calif is the worst seen in twenty years, that's the one's that know about it! For those of you that think all syrup's are the same, fill a quart jar with type 55 hfsc & one with 100% sucrose put it out side for a month. Then bring it inside for a day and try to pure out the type 55 hfcs, good luck it will be as hard as a rock, but the sucrose will make a mess on your floor as it pours out. Happy holidays to all, Keith Jarrett -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 21:32:23 -0500 Reply-To: chrissy shaw Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: chrissy shaw Subject: Re: ?The Latest Bee-Kill has Experts Stumped? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Truesdell >Sent: Dec 9, 2006 1:50 PM >To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu >Subect: Re: [BEE-L] ?The Latest Bee-Kill has Experts Stumped? > Hello again. let me address something I do know a small about. I was wrong in my initial posts. I once bought a couple of queens from Canada in the mid-seventies. They were Anatolian, which is more a name than an apt description of a race of bee. I had read Brother Adams reports and was anxious to try this bee. Wall to wall brood in eight frame nucs, they were amazing, even with a small sample of only two queens. For years I was sure it was the breed. These many years later i am convinced that Silver Star Queens simply raised better queens than many i have had before or since. Steve Taber, in his book, "Breeding Super Bees," (pg. 20-21) says that Dr. Farrar tested stock vs. breeding and concludes that how a breeder raises and handles their queens has more to do with how well the queen performs in a colony. So in the long list of factors of bee productivity, the very first in what humans can do, is to take extra care in breeding. The weather also effects queen quality. A bad day, or worse a bad set of weeks with wind or rain or drought can effect the young queens environment before and after breeding. If i am trying a new breeder and i notice the colonies i start with their queens are having problems and other bees are doing fine then I call the breeder and ask if there was a problem with queens shipped when i bought mine. A good breeder will know and will tell you. There have been real bad breeders, but by and large they are self weeding. Breeder's do best if they can get your business year. If everyone's bees are in poor shape in an area, you have an area problem. There are many factors possible. Weed sprays, humidity, rain, dry, cool, hot, can all knock out a crop. Plant pests can destroy a reliable crop and these like all else often vary in populations. The winter of 1968 and 69 almost all beekeepers who carried bees up to fireweed lost 70% of their colonies from dysentery. The aphids, rain and darn bad luck killed a great many bees that year. In the same yards two years later the fireweed did not yield from drought (in western Washington) and i had my first experience of bees boiling out of hives to greet the truck as we drove up. It wasn't breed, it was starvation and large field forces with nothing else to do. In both cases, those who fed their bees did far better than those who relied on nature. I have no solution to what has stumped the experts, but there are always many possible factors and it can help in the future if one records as many variables as possible and addresses what is in ones power towards a solution. Chrissy Shaw > >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 00:19:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?H._Higgenbotham?=" Subject: Microcrystalline wax foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Are honeybee's willing to draw comb from a foundation made of microcrystalline wax? I wanted to know specifically if bees would draw out a microcrystalline wax with a higher melting and harder surface than beeswax. I would also like to know if there are any domestic (US) producers of microcrystalline wax whose products are used by beekeepers for the above purpose. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 06:59:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: overwintering hives-what happens to the feed In-Reply-To: <002301c71bff$5f4dc090$0aa7ff04@wendyf10934cd0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit K&W Jarrett wrote: > For those of you that think all syrup's are the same, fill a quart > jar with type 55 hfsc & one with 100% sucrose put it out side for a > month. Then bring it inside for a day and try to pure out the type 55 > hfcs, good luck it will be as hard as a rock, but the sucrose will > make a mess on your floor as it pours out. Bad test since the bees are storing "nectar" whose source is either a mix of fructose and glucose or pure sucrose. What should be tested is the condition of that stored and changed "nectar" in the cells.Plus, the conditions in the hive are different than the conditions outside. In both feeds, they have added enzymes which will break down some of the sucrose to fructose and glucose, depending on the concentration of the syrup. I am not sure what happens to the HFCS. So what is the actual composition of the stored HFCS and sugar feed? Much would depend on when fed and the conditions at that time. Back to my standard reply on winter feeds based on a British study many years ago. Sugar best, HFCS next and honey last as overwinter feed in cold climates. It all has to do with solids in the feed and the ability of the bee to get rid of them in the dark of winter. Second part of standard reply. I have not fed my bees in ten years (except candy in spring, even though they have plenty of stores), so they overwinter on honey so I have no ax to grind. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:21:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: overwintering hives In-Reply-To: <002301c71bff$5f4dc090$0aa7ff04@wendyf10934cd0> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3BE42A42 > Hope your bees are wintering well, but if not, here are some thoughts of > mine why not. Let's remember here, that all beekeeping is local. Not all beekeepers are in California, nor keeping bees in California conditions. >After pollen feeding in fall, It must be that your bees don't have a good fall pollen flow. Here in Vermont, the bees do. They put up plenty of pollen for early spring brood rearing. No need to feed pollen or substitute. Those that don't, will be weak in the spring, and can be requeened with queens that are good pollen gatherers/storers. Raising queens from the best winterers eliminates those that don't provision their hives properly. Of course...if there is no fall pollen flow, this won't be the case. >syrup is the next most important step. Feed as much as they will take Again, all beekeeping is local. Our bees do have a good fall flow, with which they pack their broodnests. When the crop is harvested...by the middle of August, the weight of the broodnests are noted. Those that are heavy get a super or two to hold the fall flow, and keep down swarming. Light colonies are left un-supered. These pack away the fall flow, and most don't need feeding. Those that do, are weighed and fed accordingly. Feeding colonies all they will take is wasteful and expensive. Some feed type 55 hfcs, a VERY POOR choice, use only 50% or more with sucrose and 100% is best, that's what I feed. I have fed 55% HFCS for many years, and in an area where we have "real" winters...no cleansing flights for up to 4 months. Of course, I only feed enough to make up the difference between what they have, and what they need until spring. I would never take all the honey from my bees and feed back sugar...of any kind. Also, how many have feed fumagilin-B last fall? Nosema here in Calif is the worst seen in twenty years... Maybe this is so...in California. But, I have never fed Fumidil in Vermont. Instead, if a colony is all poopy in the spring, it is requeened with a queen raised from a colony that wintered well, with no signs of Dysentery. I now see very little dysentery, and my colonies are "fat" with no Fumidil crutch. I would never try to tell a California beekeeper how to keep bees in California, but what you say is not true here in Vermont. Perhaps we really are in the land of milk and honey, I don't know. But, I do know, that breeding from the best eliminates most of these problems that you speak of. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/567 - Release Date: 12/4/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 20:09:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Chem Sensors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading Jerrys post and the degree of difficulty in detecting stuff, I have a small question. Didn't someone train a dog a few years ago to detect AFB. It seems like it would be a simple task to teach a dog to alert on Foulbrood. Cheaper too. (From the rear of the hive of course.) Dick Marron -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 06:52:20 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: K&W Jarrett Subject: Re: overwintering hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill &Michael and all, Bill wrote, conditions in the hive are different that the conditions outside. True Bill, but what I should have said maybe the garage? What I'm looking for is a average , if I took the couple thousand hives I'm setting on now, I would probably have several hundred different conditions, so I go for the happy medium. Syrup, these are standards, sucrose 66% solids, hfcs 77% solids it also will depend on the supplier. Michael wrote, >It must be that your bees don't have a good fall pollen flow. No Mike, they have a fair flow but I want fifteen frames of bees in late January and I also want a low D/O rate. Right now I'm averaging about 6% for winter loss. >Feeding colonies all they will take is wasteful and expensive I didn't say add supers and start feeding, the bees will only consume what they have room for, I'm assuming they are not five story high. >I now see little dysentery, and my colonies are "fat" with no fumidil >crutch, Funny, I had to send sample to the lab to get results for mine, some friend of mine have it moderately, they have bees in Calif, Montana, S Dakota and Texas. I'm not just talking about My Calif. You cannot see(with the naked eye) Dysentery problems until its too late, I don't want to risk thousands of hives @$150.00 pollination fee. When you are running several thousand hives and they have been in several different states for the summer you cannot micro-manage them. If I had 100 hives down the street and never moved them then maybe I could. Keith Jarrett -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:07:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Chem Sensors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The reasons that we don't have a field portable, do-it-all sensor include: Jerry, I think you missed my point. Forget the instruments--why don't you use a cassette of trained bees to sniff for AFB, queenrightness, etc? Randy -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 11:28:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: =?windows-1252?Q?=93The_Latest_Bee-Kill_has__Experts_Stumped=93?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, REPLY: Colonies will NOT suffer equally in a nectar dearth. There will be best performers that may be identified during ‘even during the very worst years‘. Some colonies will be able to forage further distance, better scouting abilities etc. The foraging strategy of a honeybee colony involves surveying the food source patches within a vast area around its nest, pooling the reconnaissance of its many foragers, and using this information to focus its forager force on a few high-quality patches within its foraging area (Seeley). If these traits are not expressed in their genetics, it will often show at the colony level in the form of stress during times nectar dearth. Traits affecting foraging and productivity can sometimes be difficult to assess during times of abundant nectar, but colonies that lack in the traits associated with productivity will be very easily identified at low nectar times. IMO, this ‘makes bad years for honeybees’ potentially excellent opportunities for making critical assessments associated with particular traits of interest. No, a lack of food does not select for ‘lesser populated colonies’ in the north according to Seeley and Visscher because population affects colony fitness due to the colonies need to collect winter stores. “Worker population effects a colonies fitness because a larger colony is able to collect more nectar and store more honey during the active foraging season, thereby increasing the food reserves that are necessary for it to survive the winter (Seeley, Visscher).” You suggest a natural selection during food shortages for ‘lesser populated colonies‘, which might be applicable for the south. But the reference from Seeley and Visscher suggest quite the opposite is true in northern climates with lesser populated colonies less fit due to the need to survive winter. If desired traits are not expressed in a line of bees, then IMO you would be better off eliminating undesired stock and selecting from the bees that have expression of desired traits in there genetics. From what I am seeing here in PA this year is lesser populated colonies are dieing off and suffering the most. There are also production colonies managing a surplus and production colonies starving, so this suggests genetics and expression of necessary traits is playing a huge role also (at least that appears to the case here in PA). Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Ecologicalbeekeeping.com ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' Feral Bee Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeralBeeProject/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 09:06:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Chem Sensors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Didn't someone train a dog a few years ago to detect > AFB. Yes they did. Worked great. Problem was obvious. How many dogs are going to want to stick their hairy, meat-breath snouts into beehive entrances more than once? A far better tactic would be to train bears : ) Bears have one big advantage in that we already have plenty of feed for them--in fact I fed a big one four colonies yesterday (no smiley). Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 13:19:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Chem Sensors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy We can train a cassette full of bees -- but they're fragile in a box in the field -- they have to be constrained, so they can't cool themselves, etc. We've been playing around with training our free flying bees -- maybe dope them with a marker so we can distinguish our trained bees from every other bee. You're right though, LANL is getting lots of press for more or less duplicating the bee in a box or bee hotel approach of Inscentinel _http://www.inscentinel.com/index.php_ (http://www.inscentinel.com/index.php) . We know the Brits well, they spent a summer working with us in Missoula and Yuma. We've used a similar screening assay since the late 90s. Jerry -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 13:21:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anne Brennan Subject: Ongoing Robbing & Getting Discouraged MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed [Please forgive the cross posting to both Bee-L and Beekeeping@yahoogroups.] I've had recurring problems with robbing from my one and only hive, and I still haven't been able to reliably prevent it. I'm a first-year beekeeper, which is why I only have one hive. My bees went into Fall with plenty of honey and pollen, but most of it was gone by early November, and I realized that the bee frenzies I'd seen around my hive at various times had been robber bees doing their thing. I hadn't reduced the entrance before that (oops) so I chalked it up to "live and learn" for next year, and I subsequently installed a homemade entrance reducer that only allows one bee at a time to pass through. The notch at the front of the inner cover is the only other entrance, and I leave that open for winter ventilation. I've been advised that my hive must have been weak already for this original robbing to have happened, and I shouldn't expect it to survive the winter. But in the spirit of learning from this negative experience, I decided to feed them to see if they might make it through the winter after all, rather than let them starve, since this is my only hive until next year. So in mid-November I fed some 2:1 sugar syrup during some cool weather, only to find that on the first warm day, the robbers were back, so I removed the syrup feed out of frustration, hoping they would lose interest. I decided fondant would be the best way to feed the colony at this point, and I thought the robbers would be less likely to detect the presence of fondant than sugar syrup (not sure why), so I whipped up a batch of fondant using the recipe in the October Bee Culture. The weather's been cold here (highs in the 30s) for most of last week, so I had to wait until a couple days ago to put some fondant on the top bars of the hive. I placed a spacer over the fondant, then the inner cover with the notch/entrance on the bottom, then the top cover. This seemed to be the best arrangement for ventilation and my bees' access to the fondant. When I did so, it seemed that there were plenty of bees in the hive, but I am too new at this to accurately assess. Well, today the weather is sunny and 50 degrees, and lo and behold I looked out at the hive just now and sure enough, more robbing. I don't feel I can close down the hive any more than I have without stopping the ventilation, but I am going out to close up the top entrance. Is there a way to position the fondant and inner cover better to prevent robbing without negatively affecting hive ventilation? Will the bees be able to access the fondant in cold weather if I put it above the inner cover, or will it be out of reach when they are in their winter huddle? I feel that no matter what I do, I'm just feeding someone else's colony and weakening my own. Do I need to remove the feed anytime the temp exceeds 50 degrees and bees are flying? Should I just quit feeding them until the weather gets consistently cold? Seems like the more I try to do to help them, the worse the problem gets... Anne in southeastern PA -- -------------------------------- Anne Brennan anne.brennan@verizon.net -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 13:22:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Trained Dogs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Fisher, with the Apiary Inspection Division of the State of Maryland has trained at least two dogs to detect foul brood, I've seen the dog in action. Jerry -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:27:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David Croteau Subject: Re: overwintering hives-what happens to the feed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, if you've been over wintering with honey for ten years, why wouldn't you say honey first sugar second & hfcs third. I saved some five gallon pails of honey feed in zip-lock-bags. Not a good idea? Dave in Skowhegan Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 11:05:45 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: The Latest Bee-Kill has Experts Stumped In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe Waggle writes: You suggest a natural selection during food shortages for ‘lesser populated colonies‘, which might be applicable for the south. Reply: This is not what I am seeing, as the hives are mostly either strong or gone. You cannot have lesser colonies in areas where more foraging is needed for food stores, to get one thru droughts and lean years. Hives that perform well out here normally do exceptionally well in other areas of abundance by our local standards FWIW...and to have NO MAIN FLOW this year and still end up in the fall with ample stores and bees means a lot. For these bees then can on average years do fine! Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://grous.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:43:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Re: Ongoing Robbing & Getting Discouraged In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bees love a handout and when there is no nectar available they rob. Be prepared next year. Put a screen over the upper entrance. Take it off when snow flies. If you are using a Boardman feeder (Entrance feeder) this is a common problem. Throw it away. Get a top feeder or a frame feeder. This keeps the feeding in the hive. Be warned that bees won't take liquid when it's cold but you will need it in the spring. Fondant seems the best choice but if you have no stores now you will need a lot of it. I'd pile it on top of the (top) frames and use an empty super to make room for it. Try your question on Beesource .com. Dick Marron -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:23:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: O A vaporization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... but Gump in Germany feels that since the OA vapor recrystallizes in the air, that you only need a good particle mask--not organic vapor. Does this mean that the white vapour that exits the hive during vaporisation is recrystallising? Do these crystals fall and adhere to adjacent items such as outer hive parts, pallets, and beekeepers' clothing? Could this pose a continuing health hazard for a commercial beekeeper? Are there immediate signs of oxalic vapour poisoning? We sometimes have smell of bees being roasted, which is in fact roasted bees on the burner. Do oxalic vapours have a distintive odour such as with formic? Peter (vaporizing in the snow) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:43:20 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: O A vaporization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter asked > Does this mean that the white vapour that exits the hive during vaporisation is recrystallising? Yes, and the colder the quicker. Yes, they would adhere to clothing to some extent. It could be a potential health hazard, although Radetzki found that residues on frames were barely at the limit of detection. It's unlikely that you'd be poisoned by the vapor--unless you cough yourself to death! If you inhale any, you'd know it. I'm neutral on vaporization--I'm just reporting. Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:15:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: overwintering hives-what happens to the feed In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Croteau wrote: > Bill, if you've been over wintering with honey for ten years, why wouldn't > you say honey first sugar second & hfcs third. > Because that would only be my experience, along with the fact that I manage my winter honey so little fall honey is left with my bees. The facts are from a scientific study that confirms the order I posted. Good science, in my world, trumps anecdotal evidence, but I live in a strange world. Please note that my bees have little fall honey for stores. When I talked about solids, it really is the ash content of the honey/sugar/HFCS. The higher the ash content, the more the need to poop. It is not universal, but it seems the darker the honey, the higher the ash content, so my summer honey is a better winter feed than fall. Plus I have honeydew in the fall which is a very poor winter honey for my bees. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:14:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Williams Subject: Wax Spraying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to re-coat some of my plastic frames. I've tried a few home remedies, none of which is satisfactory. Is there a satisfactory method that is not too costly to tool up for that I can do this with? George W -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:21:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: overwintering hives In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20061210080008.0193eab8@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Palmer wrote: > > Maybe this is so...in California. But, I have never fed Fumidil in > Vermont. Instead, if a colony is all poopy in the spring, it is > requeened with a queen raised from a colony that wintered well, with > no signs of Dysentery. I now see very little dysentery, and my > colonies are "fat" with no Fumidil crutch. Second that. I still have some in the freezer from when I first started keeping bees. I found that my bees dysentery problems were not from nosema but local fall honey. Top bars were black with it in some colonies. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:32:41 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Ongoing Robbing & Getting Discouraged Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Anne, Don't give up on your bees yet! Like Dick said, don't use a bottom feeder. You don't need an upper entrace until after freezing temps. Just keep your reduced bottom entrance for now. Put an empty super over the inner cover and, if you don't have a top feeder, place several very shallow (bee-deep) trays on the inner cover and pour your 2:1 syrup into them. Check and re-fill, as needed, the trays daily. Make sure the top is bee tight! If the robbers continue to get in through the bottom entrance, move the hive some 15 yards away and rotate it about 90 deg. If this does not help, screen the bottom entrance and move the hive into a shed or a garage. A warm garage will encourage the bees to take the feed down better. In fact, you can overwinter your hive and continue feeding (just place a screen over the super so bees can't come out and you add syrup) through the screen in a warm garage. If you have a handtruck, you can roll the hive out on nice days for cleansing flights. If you try this approach, try to keep the hive cool (32-40F) when you are not feeding. An outdoor shed would be best. This will keep the bees calmer and reduce the need for cleansing flights. Whatever you do, don't throw in the towel right away! Waldemar -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:06:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Microcrystalline wax foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 00:19:17 -0500, H. Higgenbotham wrote: >Are honeybee's willing to draw comb from a foundation made of >microcrystalline wax? Back in the 1970s I worked in a factory where we made honey comb foundation. Since we did not have the machinery to automatically embed wires (like Root and Dadant) the owner offered what he called "heavy brood" foundation. (As opposed to medium brood or light surplus, for example). When it was properly wired by the beekeeper, this stuff was pretty heavy duty. But since a lot of our customers were from the desert, they wanted something even tougher. So the owner started adding Carnauba or microcrystalline waxes, if requested. Of course, in small quantities, these should not prevent the bees from making good combs. However! -- this is *adulteration* of beeswax. I didn't approve of it then and I don't approve of it now. Most people have switched to hard plastic foundation for better comb strength. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:53:22 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Adrian M. Wenner" Subject: Bees and Detection of Harmful Things In-Reply-To: <008f01c71cba$99c57d60$1d80a9d1@user> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Dec 7, 2006, at 4:37 AM, Bill Truesdell wrote: > This thread has devolved quickly into non-beekeeping territory. > > However one thing stands out, and that is the lack of "informed > discussion" on Jerry's research. Several of the comments are on the > order of "it cannot be done" while it is being done, or do not > understand the actual issues or research. Instead we are in the > normal, for the Internet, my/your truth, science/Luddite, peace/war or > military/social spending issues where strong views prevail and reason > takes a backseat. > > So before Aaron has to fire another warning shot, it might be nice > (but not as much fun) to actually get back to an "informed discussion > of beekeeping" . I suggest the archives to learn much about Jerry's > work. > > Truth is, the reason we do not see many researchers on this list is > exactly because of the progression of this thread. Bill is right on the mark, in part, I feel. As a researcher, I have followed this thread with great interest, having considerable experience in this area. Beekeepers, though, should heed the basics of research approaches. Let me provide some historical background on that point that relates to the current discussion and to beekeeper concerns, information readily available now on the Internet. I was apparently the first to hear sounds produced by dancing bees (e.g.: beesource.com/pov/wenner/besa1959.htm), when I found a correlation between length of time sounds were produced during the straight run of the waggle dance and the distance of food from the hive. Since dancing usually occurs in darkness, sound seemed a great possibility for communication of distance information. Having been thoroughly indoctrinated about the "fact" of bee language by that time, my experience in electronics, mathematics, and physics permitted me to wow audiences with tape recordings and analysis of those sounds (beesource.com/pov/wenner/sci1964.htm). The exotic sells! That is, the exotic sells in science as well as in general. Rewards and awards go to those who come up with the exotic (but no one ever gets an award for undermining an exotic hypothesis). I became very famous during the early 1960s and received invitations to speak at many universities and requests to participate in symposia (including one at a castle in Austria). That is all very heady stuff. Our basic research then took a different turn when my co-workers and I continued research "for the sake of facts instead of for the sake of the hypothesis," as one pundit (Paul Feyerabend) phrased it. In doing so, we stumbled onto the importance of conditioned response (see: beesource.com/pov/wenner/learning.htm) during re-recruitment of experienced to profitable food sources (a point of interest to beekeepers). Well, the bee research "establishment" didn't want to hear about that avenue, because "bee language" had become "ruling theory." We then had a devil of a time getting our experimental results into print. Little did we know at the time (because such information had become suppressed) that von Frisch had earlier published very revealing papers along the same line (e.g., beesource.com/pov/wenner/bw1993.htm and beesource.com/pov/wenner/frisch1943.htm). (An interesting twist came in 2004, when some Australian bee researchers published their results in Nature. They claimed that they had "discovered" that experienced forager bees could be re-recruited to food sources by odor cues alone. When I contacted them, they expressed surprise that they had not known that our results had been published decades earlier.) In addition we obtained results in those early years that revealed how very sensitive bees were to faint odors and how that behavior could interfere with experimental results (e.g., beesource.com/pov/wenner/sci1969.htm). Again, we had great difficulty getting those results into print. Because of our insistence upon "attending to the facts instead of focusing on the theory," we had unwittingly jump-started the honey bee dance language controversy. Unlike many controversies, this one had a definite starting point at the Salk Institute in La Jolla in the mid-1960s (see: beesource.com/pov/wenner/aoac.htm). Very recently a commentary by Sharon Begley ("Playing Catch-Up After Lost time in Alzheimer's Labs") appeared in the Wall Street Journal about Alzheimer's research (24 Nov. 2006). Apparently, research on Alzheimer's had been locked into a "ruling theory" approach, with all funds going into one avenue for two decades and none allowed for other promising leads. That one avenue fizzled, requiring the catch-up now. That exact same pattern occurred when we broached the possibility that searching bees relied upon conditioned response and the odor of food sources in the field during the recruitment process (e.g., beesource.com/pov/wenner/az1991.htm). We then could no longer get grant funding nor get our manuscripts into print, encountering very hostile reviews in both cases. (That may not seem like such a big deal, but a researcher then loses all support for graduate students, as well as two-ninths of a yearly salary for summer research — a really big deal when stretched out over four decades; the price of integrity is very high, indeed.) In 1995 Jerry Bromenshenk had me to come to the University of Montana for a Sigma Xi lecture and a seminar. While there, he picked my brains about conditioning honey bees. As is my custom, scientific openness, I spilled the beans about to condition bees to search for particular odors and the implications for beekeeping. At the time I knew nothing about Jerry's plans. Of course, my co-workers and I have known for decades that bees could be conditioned to search for the odor of just about anything. The honey bee DNA genome sequence studies have just revealed that bees have 170 odor receptor sites (a very high number) but only 10 such sites for taste (a low number). Such results came as no surprise to me; we have known about that odor sensitivity since the mid-1960s. (Just think, all those millions spent on waggle dance research but virtually none spent on the importance of odor during that past several decades! And, what about the problems that beekeepers face every day?) Will bee behavior be the "holy grail" for practical applications? Having worked with honey bees since the 1940s, I tend toward John Edward's comments. I worked with a research group a few years ago (also with DARPA funding) and formed some conclusions. Will we be able to use honey bees to find the location of land mines? Well, yes, bees can be trained very quickly to search for the very faint odor of land mines. However, we found that they are "too smart" and associate other cues related to the reward (think shaving lotion, sun tan lotion, body odor, color of the paper packets that contain the target odor), not just those odors one might want to work with. Also, bees don't fly at night or in high winds or while it rains. Nor do I think they would do well at finding mines in jungle vegetation Most important, though, I found it very difficult to train beekeepers to follow PRECISE instructions about the training method (and we all know how independent beekeepers are, don't we). None of the above is a reflection of what Jerry might accomplish with his monitoring techniques — I just don't think finding land mines is one of the possibilities for bees. However, I am very excited about this new awareness of researchers around the world about the possibilities of learning, conditioning, and odor reception capabilities of honey bees. Perhaps the lock-step focus on bee "language" (a hypothesis, not a fact) can now be broken and resources directed toward fruitful research in other areas. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm "Having one view prevail is harmful; it becomes a belief system, not science." Zaven Khachaturian — 2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:15:09 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Wax Coating plastic foundation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit George Williams wrote: I would like to re-coat some of my plastic frames. I've tried a few home remedies, none of which is satisfactory. Is there a satisfactory method that is not too costly to tool up for that I can do this with? I have thought about this dilemma and, while not having tried it yet, think it will work. You will need a pot big enough to be able to submerge your frames, or sheets of plastic foundation, to at least the bottom of the top bar. Fill the pot mostly with water and then a layer of wax on the top. Think bees wax melts around 147º F. Keep water temp just above the melting point of the wax. Dip your plastic foundation down into the wax/water until the wax layer just touches the bottom of the top bar. Pull the frame out of the water and the floating wax should leave a coating of wax on the cold plastic foundation. The thickness of the wax layer would depend, IMHO, on how fast you dip the sheet of foundation. The hotter the plastic gets, the thinner the layer of wax that adheres. If the layer of wax is too thick, heat the water just a little hotter. >From what I have read though, the more wax the bees have to work with, the faster they get the foundation drawn out. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 17:57:06 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Microcrystalline wax foundation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter Borst writes: Most people have switched to hard plastic foundation for better comb strength. Reply: It's also why we went to 5 and even 7 horizontal wires (with wrap and tie) for embedding our beeswax here in Southern Arizona, to gain better cmb strength when extracting to prevent blowouts, and also avoid beeswax contamination. Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:46:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: AL BOEHM Subject: Re: Wax Spraying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [BEE-L] Wax Spraying > I would like to re-coat some of my plastic frames. Hello George and all, I recoat my pierco frames and foundation after scraping them down with melted cappings.. I use a coffee can with the wax in a electric stew pot as a double boiler with a 2 inch nylon paint brush. It goes fast and the wax thickness can be varied with the brush speed. Get a good quality thick brush as the cheap thin ones wont hold the wax and cool to fast. Have fun AL BOEHM Columbus NC usa -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:41:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Wax Spraying MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Williams" To: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: [BEE-L] Wax Spraying George W. Asks! >I would like to re-coat some of my plastic frames. I've tried a few home > remedies, none of which is satisfactory. > > Is there a satisfactory method that is not too costly to tool up for that > I > can do this with? A better solution IMHO is to cut a foam paint roller the width of your frame and melt the wax in a container you can submerge the roller in. This works quite well, be sure you roll a few times if doing unwaxed plastic so the foundation warms to hold the wax. Even some of the prewaxed foundation can use the extra heat to get good adhesion. I found that it does not matter if wax goes on a little heave on occasion. It is amazing how well and fast they will draw out these recoated frames. Alden Marshall Hudson, NH 03051 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:15:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Upstate Bee Yards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Greetings! During my travels in Upstate NY this year I saw a lot of interesting bee yards -- I hope you'll enjoy the slide show I set up at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/peterlborst/ Unfortunately I don't have the knack of their program yet, the slides are in reverse order despite my numbering them the way I wanted them. Pretend the year goes from winter to fall and summer to spring... ;) -- pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:27:38 -0600 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Ongoing Robbing & Getting Discouraged In-Reply-To: <20061211.063243.15626.1441521@webmail04.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can also move the hive....The hive is probably weak enough that most bees aren't flying when they could be, and criminals always return to the scene of the crime. If you can, most them so that the new site is not within view of the old site. Like around the corner of the house or something. No guarantees, but it will help. -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:39:42 -0600 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: Wax Coating plastic foundation In-Reply-To: <20061212001509.41699.qmail@web53402.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Bush developed a way to coat plastic, I can't remember the specifics, but has good acceptance from what I recall. I however prefer not to use plastic at all. Well I don't even use foundation, so that's not fair really... I'll forward your question to him.... -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:44:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Queen Rearing Poll In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Queen Rearing Poll I am planning on raising my own queens this coming year. There are several options I am considering to initiate the development of the queen cells, none of which involve grafting (at this time). The first involves inserting a Miller frame into the middle of the brood area of my selected hive ( Miller frame has inverted triangles of foundation hanging from the top bar.) After the queen has laid in the triangles of newly drawn comb, the comb is then inserted into my queenless colony. The second involves shaving down the height of the cells, then using a metal tube to punch out cells of day old larvae and adhering the complete cell vertically from a cross bar. The frame with 3 cross bars with about 15 of these cells on each bar is then placed in the middle of the brood area of a queenless colony in the same manner as grafted cells. I am wondering if anyone in the group has utilized either of these methods and if so, how it worked for them and their observed results. Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:41:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Upstate Bee Yards In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-623A70D1 Boy, lots of apiaries in the shade, eh? They must have been fun to inspect? Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 12/9/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:26:02 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll In-Reply-To: <150006.83721.qm@web53403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike > none of which involve grafting I have never understood why so many spend so much time and effort trying to avoid the easiest and most reliable method. The Miller method works fine, but is really aimed at producing a dozen or so queens, if large numbers of queens is your aim, then it would turn our rather laborious. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/cellstarting.html The cell punching method is good, but again is not a method that lends itself to large quantities (although I know one guy who uses as many as 45 punches). I find that cell punching is more useful in the 'drop of a hat' situation... You might be in a friend's apiary and spot characteristics in a stock that interested you, so you make a few cell punchings and form a nuc to look after them ( assuming that you know the guy well enough ), I always had cell punches available in my kit box, for just such an occasion. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/cellpunch.html Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:05:22 +0000 Reply-To: honeymountain@kilty.demon.co.uk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: james kilty Organization: honey mountain Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll In-Reply-To: <150006.83721.qm@web53403.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mike I have used both. They are good ways to start. Miller's method produces a lot of good cells, which you move by cutting out. Easier to set up. Two adjacent cells (if you leave them together) can be moved together. This contrasts with the easier method of moving the cell-punched cells. I find I have to push the punch right through the comb. A bit messy and leaves a hole. In both cases, new comb is best. Try each and you may prefer one to the other. James -- http://www.kilty.demon.co.uk/beekeeping.htm -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 06:42:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll In-Reply-To: <150006.83721.qm@web53403.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-77B4568C > There are several options I am considering to initiate the development > of the queen cells, none of which involve grafting (at this time). I really don't understand why beekeepers want to raise queen cells with a non-grafting method. All the cell building set-up work is basically the same. Some sort of queenless starter, followed by a queenright finisher. All the mating nuc set-up is the same, or the re-queening work is the same. The only difference is in the grafting. And, in my opinion, grafting is the easy part. And you get all your set-up work done, and your "all-you-gotta-do" method fails, and then where are you? Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 12/9/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:57:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Upstate Bee Yards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael Palmer wrote: >Boy, lots of apiaries in the shade, eh? They must have been fun to inspect? Hi Mike Well, it might just be the shady ones make more dramatic photos ... No, actually I was surprised, too, at how often Upstate bee yards are in the dense shade of the dark woods. I was headed into one with this old timer and I was *just about* to ask him "why do you always stick the hives in these shady spots under the low lying branches? when he said to me: "You know, when I first set this yard up, this was a pasture." But you're right, it's hard to inspect bees in the shade, and they tend to be more ornery. But then, there are a lot of beekeepers that don't really open the hives very often ... pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:09:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Williams Subject: Training bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps we could look into training bees to detect AHB. Certainly that is not so dramatic as finding explosives, but it would be a boon to beekeepers all across the southern USA. Who would be willing to tackle this. Maybe a Chair at LSU could be supported to investigate this. George W -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:04:07 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike, I have done both methods. I used to do the miller method and was not = please with the outcome because I would not get the number of cell take = I desired and some of the cells were grouped together making it = difficult to separate the for use. Also I was not pleased with the cell = size and the queen cells looked more like emergency cells.=20 The second method you describe I know as the Alley and Jay Smith method = and after trying it last season I was very pleased at my first attempt = and plan on doing it more next season with some modifications of my own = design experimenting on attaching the row of cells to the top bars. = Instead of waxing the row of cells to the bar I am going to try = attaching it to the bar using sewing thread, it will be an experiment = but I see no reason why it should not work if I do it right. The cells I = produced using this method were beautiful and quite well developed, I = think I have some pictures of them in my computer and ones of the = homemade cell protectors I used to place the cells in the mating nucs. = Somewhere on the internet there is a web page with Jay Smiths book on it = called "Better Queens" that explains this method and Alley's book is on = Cornell's web site of old books. I have both of these books and both are = a really good read and I learned much from them both. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:26:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: Free download: MIDWEST BEEKEEPER In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It's the first link on the top of the webpage for the Indiana Beekeeping School. www.IndianaBeekeepingSchool.com "Midwest Beekeeper" January issue -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:23:02 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike, Here is Jay Smith's "Better Queens" Book on the internet for all to = enjoy. This method I find makes the best queen cells I have ever seen but I = really have not seen the amount of queen cells Commercial breeders have = seen in other locations. Not very many queen breeders up here yet. I do = not use this method in its entirety but use the basic concept of = attaching rows of cells to bars and starting the cells in a starter hive = similar to how Jay Smith does both. In a full depth Nuc (My polynuc with = screened bottom used as a starter hive) = http://akbkeepr.blake.prohosting.com/styronuc.htm I place two Illinois = shallow frames with a row of cells attached to the bottom of the top = bars and a row of cells attached to the bottom of the bottom bars of = both frames. These are either new frames with no comb or foundation or a = used frame with no comb or foundation. You can probably see the picture = and imagine these two frames in the starter hive hanging in the number = two and four position with Honey comb with some pollen frames in the = number one and five position and a full comb of pollen in the number = three position. I do this during our main nectar/honey flow so there is = plenty of natural food entering the hive to aid in nurturing these young = queens. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:57:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael Palmer wrote: >I really don't understand why beekeepers want to raise queen cells with a >non-grafting method. I agree with Mike, mostly. There are some people who'll be unable to tell which larvae are the right age and there'll be some who won't be able to pick them up. Getting the age right is a matter of confining the queen to one frame with excluders. Put an empty black comb in and take it out after four days. All the larvae will be 24 hrs. old or less. Picking them up just takes good eyes and practice. However! if you can't or don't want to do it, the really easy way is to make good strong nucs and let them "grow their own". This method has been used for centuries, and is pretty reliable. I am not sure if forcing bees to raise queens like that produces inferior results or not. I do know that you can produce real crummy queens by grafting, especially if the cell builders don't have enough nurses. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:52:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Bees dying in Florida, Georgia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All We've been getting calls about severe bee losses in Florida, Georgia, and other southern states. I went to our sponsors and got a one time pass to fly down with my team and our technologies, see if we can get any fix on what's going on. We will be sampling beeyards/hives, taking chemical samples, recording sounds, making inspections, and referencing affected sites to location and weather. I'm sending Scott Debnam to Georgia -- its his home state: while I'm flying to Florida. We want to visit with beekeepers, bee inspectors, sample select yards. Jerry Hayes is helping us coordinate our visits to Florida. We're still working on contacts in Georgia. If you've had severe losses -- we're talking commercial operations that reportedly have lost thousands of colonies, we'd like to hear from you --- see if we can orchestrate a visit. We hope to be down next week. Best Regards Jerry J.J. Bromenshenk Bee Alert Technology, Inc. The University of Montana Missoula, MT Business 406-541-3160 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:47:45 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Subject: Re: Microcrystalline wax foundation Comments: To: Dee Lusby In-Reply-To: <20061212015707.64443.qmail@web51606.mail.yahoo.com> > It's also why we went to 5 and even 7 horizontal wires > (with wrap and tie) for embedding our beeswax here in > Southern Arizona, to gain better cmb strength when > extracting to prevent blowouts, and also avoid beeswax > contamination. If the extractor is blowing out comb, then there is a problem with the extractor. The most popular design here in New Zealand extracts foundation without damage - even foundation drawn on "thin super" foundation (25 sheets full depth per kilo - made for comb honey production) and 3 wire frames. The fundamental element (related to comb damage) of this extractor is that the baskets are designed from the ground up to support the face of the comb, not the frame itself. This also allows running higher hot room temperatures for dealing with crystallized honey. The designer was a commercial beekeeper with a flair for engineering design, so has the knowledge of both worlds. They have a website...... http://www.beetech.co.nz/extractor.htm Cheers, Peter Bray_________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., Pennington St, PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 http://www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:30:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: mark berninghausen Subject: Re: Upstate Bee Yards In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nice pix, Peter. I wish that I had done something like that when I inspected. Mark Peter Borst wrote: Greetings! During my travels in Upstate NY this year I saw a lot of interesting bee yards -- I hope you'll enjoy the slide show I set up at: --------------------------------- Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:43:47 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: mark berninghausen Subject: Re: Upstate Bee Yards In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I found this to be true, especially with the older stationary commercial operations. It often seemed like the experienced beekeepers had their yards just beyond where one could drive ones truck off the road. To get to one yard owned by Paul B. I had to drive around the back side of a corn field and then into the trees under some power lines. I missed the turn off of that path and knew I had gone too far when the hill in front of me was too steep for even a four wheeler to climb. When I turned around and started to leave I saw the break in the brush and took it. There were the hives. Nicely spaced out in two rows. Far enough apart for the truck and underneath some apple trees whose branches were drooping down onto the tops of some of the hives. I had to take the suspected foulbrood frames a couple of steps out into the sunlight to find the AFB. It made things interesting. Mark Peter Borst wrote: Michael Palmer wrote: >Boy, lots of apiaries in the shade, eh? They must have been fun to inspect? Hi Mike I was headed into one with this old timer and I was *just about* to ask him "why do you always stick the hives in these shady spots under the low lying branches? when he said to me: "You know, when I first set this yard up, this was a pasture." --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:56:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: Bees dying in Florida, Georgia In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Jerry and Friends, I thought it was just me. My bees died spontaneously within the last two or three weeks. There are only 2 hives at this one location. One hive started having bees die and lay on the landing board. On closer inspection, I saw the dieing bees, which were still able to stand up, shivering and standing on the "tip toes" of their rear legs. Their thoraxes were contracted, so the bees all looked small. I thought maybe that there had been some spraying in the area and the bees might have foraged on a contaminated nectar source. The bees eventually cleaned of the landing board and the other hive was looking strong. Perhaps they would recover. A few days later, the other hive had the entrance choked with dead and dieing bees and a double handful of bees were on the ground at the entrance. I've never seen anything like it. The second hive was completely dead in 5 days and the first hive has a fair amount of bees, but no eggs in the cells. I even saw some dead hive beetles in the second hive, which made me think it was some kind of poisoning event. I dunno. I'd be interested to see if anyone else has a similar experience. I am located in the Tampa Bay area. Robert J. Bassett -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:09:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: bees dying in Florida, Georgia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jerry, I have been hearing the same thing. I believe you are the right person to take a look. I suspect two peoblems. 1. contaminated wax. The area you speak of has been the worse for using off label treatments for varroa. My source is the last Apiary Inspectors of America meeting I attended. Jeff Pettis. 2. Many of the larger beekeepers are having a tough time adjusting to using apiguard, apilife var and formic pads. Many have been simply waiting too late to treat. If so PMS signs should be easy to see. Also as I told Keith Delaplane when we met in Kansas about six weeks ago. Beekeepers in Georgia are seeing virus problems start way below what he considers as treatment threshold. Myself and a few others believe that comb containing a large amount of virus is the problem. To kill the virus some have been using radiation on PMS comb in Florida. Hope the above helps! Good luck! Maybe you can share your observations on BEE-L on your return. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:33:03 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peter, Peter take a little time and read Jay Smith's book "Better Queens", it = is a book well worth reading. His method will allow you to create lots = of queens from larvae just the right age easily without grafting or more = correctly transferring and according to him even really good nurse bees = are not the newest of worker bees but bees of a correct age. Check out = what Jay says about nurse bees and what makes good nurse bees, go to = pages Nurse Bees=E2=80=A656 , Old Bees Good Nurses=E2=80=A657 , You = might be surprised that old bees can be really good nurse bees. Like Mr. = Bush says on the web page and I agree "I wanted this book available = because I think Jay Smith was one of the great beekeepers of all time = and one of the great queen breeders of all time. There are many queen = breeding books by scientists or small-scale breeders, but this is by a = beekeeper who raised thousands of queens every year. I think that is = much more applicable to practical queen rearing. It is also a method = that does not require grafting," http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#Nurse%20Bees http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#Old%20Bees%20Good%20Nurses Hi Mike, >I really don't understand why beekeepers want to raise queen cells with = a >non-grafting method. > Below is a quote from "Better Queens"=20 http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#The Grafting Method "The Grafting Method The object of Better Queens is to be helpful to all who rear queens and = not to criticize those who use the grafting system. After all, I am = criticizing the method I taught in Queen Rearing Simplified, so it is = perfectly legitimate to criticize oneself! Many who now are using the = grafting system and who want to rear better queens will want the two = systems compared. As most beekeepers know, by the grafting method we = mean the method in which the larva from a worker cell is transferred to = an artificial queen cell. We used that system for 33 years. Not one of = those years did we get the fine large cells which are necessary to = produce full developed queens throughout the whole season. We found that = when there was a light honey flow with plenty of pollen coming in, and = if we kept the cell builders up to great strength, we could get a very = high percentage of good queens. Even at its best we had to cull cells = and virgins and frequently to discard laying queens that were not fully = developed. Even then a few inferior queens would get by us which we had = to replace. This never happens with our present system. We never have = thrown away a cell for being too small, for all are alike. With the = present system we have yet to see an undersized virgin. When using the = grafting system, when there was no flow, it was well-nigh impossible to = get good cells even though we fed sugar by the ton. Not one of those 33 = years passed in which I did not long for a system with which I could = produce those fine large cells which I had observed in colonies = preparing to swarm, a system by which I could produce cells in = quantities throughout the entire season."=20 And; " Queen Rearing Simplified In 1923 my very good friend Geo. S. Demuth, asked me to write a book on = queen rearing and Queen Rearing Simplified was the result. It was the = best that I knew at the time but with the passing of more than = twenty-five years we have made so many radical changes for the better = when quality queens are desired that now we use practically nothing = described in its pages. However, it has given me much satisfaction to = receive letters from beekeepers all over the world thanking me for the = help given in that book. It is my belief that Better Queens will receive = a greater degree of appreciation. If this is true I shall feel amply = paid for all the effort and expense I have been to in preparing this = volume. With the passing of the years there may be minor changes in our = system of rearing queens direct from the egg but the main feature will = always remain if quality of queens is desired. With our present system = all cells are as large and as well supplied with bee milk as are the = cells produced by the bees during swarming or supersedure in nature, and = let no one tell you he can beat nature in rearing queens. All we claim = is that we can equal nature and that is enough." . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:40:22 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Keith Malone wrote:I have done ..... the Alley and Jay Smith method . Instead of waxing the row of cells to the bar I am going to try attaching it to the bar using sewing thread, it will be an experiment but I see no reason why it should not work if I do it right. Keith, When you punch out the cells, how much of the back side of the desired (punched) cell is available? Is there enough that you could use that in a wedge top bar, wedging the wax material from the backside in the wedge to hold it to the top bar? Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:08:28 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Bees dying in Florida, Georgia In-Reply-To: <000001c71f01$8b71fc40$6501a8c0@bassettbob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Robert J. Bassett" wrote:I even saw some dead hive beetles in the second hive, which made me think it was some kind of poisoning event. I dunno. I'd be interested to see if anyone else has a similar experience. I am located in the Tampa Bay area. Wild conjecture. Could it be someone is placing contaminated out with the purpose of killing all Africanized bees? No matter what else is killed? Mike in LA --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:05:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keth wrote(In part): Here is Jay Smith's "Better Queens" Book on the internet for all to enjoy. This method I find makes the best queen cells I have ever seen but I really have not seen the amount of queen cells Commercial breeders have seen in other locations. Not very many queen breeders up here yet. I do not use this method in its entirety but use the basic concept of attaching rows of cells to bars and starting the cells in a starter hive similar to how Jay Smith does both. In a full depth Nuc (My polynuc with screened bottom used as a starter hive) My reply: Just wanted to say thanks Keith..I am not finished digesting what I am reading -but wow-what a delightful guy this Jay Smith was. Its fun to read about somebody having fun doing what they are doing, Thanks for linking me up. God Bless John Horton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:09:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll In-Reply-To: <20061214024022.72273.qmail@web53406.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike > Instead of waxing the row of cells to the bar I am going to try > attaching it to the bar using sewing thread, This works, but make sure that the ends of the thread are well buried in the wax, otherwise it is possible for the bees to loosen the strip, before it has been adequately attached with wax. I do not understand your question about cell punching, the punch passes right through the comb, the cell stays inside the punch, but is slid into position at the mouth of the punch using a wooden dowel. The punch and cell are then mounted in a bar with tight holes to grip the punches so that they can hang vertically. I have a web page in preparation that details a frame with small spring clips (terry tool clips) that can hold two rows of punches, I will send a link when it is finished. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:14:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bees dying in Florida, Georgia In-Reply-To: <20061214080828.96780.qmail@web53401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-28E42105 > Wild conjecture. Could it be someone is placing contaminated > out with the purpose of killing all Africanized bees? Truly wild conjecture. The problem is too widespread for this scenario. It sounds a bit like Bee Paralysis virus to me. I saw four or five colonies like this, this fall. Dead and dying bees on the landing board and on the ground. Many still twitching and with their tongues out. Looks a bit like poisoning, but surely it was the wrong time of the year for spraying here in the north, and the apiaries effected were widely separated...located in two states. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 12/9/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:04:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: bees dying in Forida, Georgia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hello All, I agree with Michael Palmer. Bee Paralysis virus. The big boys have moved way past the USDA coming to tell the state they have got virus issues. I expect the ETO machine will be booked solid over winter and then splits made on to radiated comb. Hobby beekeepers can replace comb or cut plastic back to midrib before using next spring. bob -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:25:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Bees dying in Florida, Georgia In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20061214070832.048f4bc0@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael Palmer wrote:It sounds a bit like Bee Paralysis virus to me. I saw four or five colonies like this, this fall. Would it be possible for samples to be sent in to a lab for confirmation of a virus? Mike in LA --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:59:08 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike, >When you punch out the cells, how much of the back side of the desired = (punched) cell is available? > I do not punch out the cells, I cut out rows of cells with Larvae in = them, attach the row of cells to the bar, and eliminate two larvae and = leave one progressively along the row of cells. This process is wrote = about in detail in Jay Smith's book. > Is there enough that you could use that in a wedge top bar, wedging = the wax material from the backside in the wedge to hold it to the top = bar? > I use comb that is new, sometime the first time laid in or only one = cycle of brood used in them and this comb is very fragile but this = fragility allows to workers to chew it down and actually create a queen = cup to a size they prefer. I do not think the comb, but maybe it could, = withstand this treatment. This is also wrote of in detail in Jay Smith's = book. It allows the bees to do their best developing queens more or less = on their terms. This is why I like the method most.=20 Jay Smith with his experience and observation ability was really = thinking when he ultimately decided to use this technique. Read the = book, I have no doubt that most will be impressed by this technique. It = does not take long to read, it is an easy read, written in the first = person and filled with his persona. I always Bcc the author of the message I respond to because I never know = if my messages will be approved or not, so wait a bit to respond so = moderators can have a chance to post the communication. Sorry for the = redundancy, I see no other way to get around the moderation and still = not waste my time responding. I know some probably have my email address = deleted from their inbox so it will not appear in their inbox but I know = there are those that appreciate hearing from me just as I appreciate all = messages I get in my inbox for learning ability. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Poll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, < Its fun to read about somebody having fun doing what they are doing, = Thanks for linking me up. God Bless > Thanks, I enjoyed the read and the information immensely, it is = astonishing the results I received from implementing some of the = techniques in my breeding. God bless you too, . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:51:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bees dying in Florida, Georgia In-Reply-To: <20061214162525.61672.qmail@web53402.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7394BD1 > It sounds a bit like Bee Paralysis virus >Would it be possible for samples to be sent in to a lab for confirmation >of a virus? Not really sure. Maybe Bob would know. I drove to one of my apiaries today. Another warm December day in Vermont. I checked on one of those paralysis colonies. Seems quite strong still...It's not losing as many bees anymore. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 12/9/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:01:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Bees Dying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All When we report bees dying, we've heard of losses of thousands of hives -- from long-term beekeepers who sustained the losses in the last few weeks. That's not someone poisoning the food of a couple of colonies. Penn State is investigating, as is USDA Beltsville. We hope that we're not in the 'me too' mode. We would like to be able to contribute to solving the question(s). We also want to compliment, not duplicate ongoing studies. This problem may extend well beyond these two states, from reports that we are getting. Jerry -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:26:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Jay Smith queen rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jay Smith wrote: In using the grafting method the larvae are left in the worker cells for two days where they are sparingly fed, for the bees are making workers of them. If much younger larvae are used they will perish, for they cannot stand such rough treatment. If you will examine the larvae two days old you will see very little bee milk around them. In fact, they are being "rationed." My experience has proved without a shadow of a doubt that such larvae have been starved in such a manner that they will never become fully developed queens no matter how lavishly they are fed after that. etc. Hmm. I wonder if they got permission to put Jay's book up on the internet? Just putting the copyright notice doesn't really cover it y'know. But on to the meat of the matter. Jay's half right here. A starved larvae won't make much of a queen, but what is the solution to that? First, the queen should be confined to one frame in a good strong single. Then, when the eggs hatch they will be flooded with royal jelly. Another trick is to put a frame of eggs into the cell builder. If they don't have any other brood (as in a queenless cell builder, they will flood these babies. The, when you transfer the larvae into the cups, you can prime the cells with some royal jelly. I used to raise thousands of cells back in the 1980s and I never primed the cups, but if you are raising a few dozen or a few hundred, it sure doesn't hurt. However, the crux of the matter is in the starters. These bees have to be aching for a new queen. I used to use the same queenless hives for starting and finishing the cells. What I did was to shake fresh bees into the hives a few hours before I put a new batch of cups in. I would put new cups in twice a week and keep the finished cells in the same hives until the day before they were to introduced. The last day I kept them in an incubator. You can tell right away if the cell builder is no good. They won't start very many cells and the cells are apt to be runty. The problem is -- a lot of times the queen breeder is on a tight schedule with order to fill and may go ahead and use some runty cells. Bad plan! -- pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:28:38 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Jay Smith queen rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peter, Peter Borst wrote; "The, when you transfer the larvae into the cups, you can prime the = cells with some royal jelly. I used to raise thousands of cells back in the = 1980s and I never primed the cups, but if you are raising a few dozen or a few hundred, it sure doesn't hurt." Mr. Jay Smith Wrote; "We used to prime our cells with bee milk but, after careful = examination, believe it was a detriment, for the first thing the bees do = is to remove all the milk we had put in. Grafting in bare cells is = better-or rather not so bad." Peter Borst wrote; "Jay's half right here." Me; I give complete credence to Jay, and think he is all right. Jay raised = thousand of queens for many, many years.=20 Jay devoted his life to Raising queens and here he writes; "I have given all there is in me to the thought of better bees and = especially better methods of producing them." I may never be the beekeeper and queen breeder Jay was, but I will look = up to him for becoming the best beekeeper I can be. His attitude is one = to follow. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:59:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: A ton of honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A short time back there were some posts on Bee-L concerning honey records. While reading in one of Eva Crane’s books, I happened across an account of over 2100 pounds of honey in a year from a single hive situated near Pretoria in South Africa between 20 March 1948 to 19 March 1949. The hive was begun with a single queen in the lowest box beneath a queen excluder. Extra queens were added in separate boxes with excluders below and above them. Six queens were used to build up the colony’s population and hive until it reached 16 deep boxes. During the main flow only 3 queens were present. A platform and ladder was built to access the top boxes, and the entire setup was held in place with a system of stays. Honey supers were removed 7 times throughout the year and replaced with supers containing empty combs. At the end of the period a total of 960 kg (2114 pounds) of honey had been produced. Crane writes that before the flow, the colony was fed with pollen substitute in powder form and raw egg mixed with sugar syrup in a boardman feeder. Apparently, the story was written up in ‘Gleanings in Bee Culture’ at the time. The citation given by Crane is: Kotze, W.A.G. (1949) Ton of honey from one colony in one year. Glean. Bee Cult. 77(8): 487-490 Regards, Dick Allen -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---