From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:26:27 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.3 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3995B49077 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEr0Bx013917 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:24:51 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0612E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 49040 Lines: 1187 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 02:32:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just what does the test measure anyhow? My recollection is a survey published in the AB Journal last year indicated many hives across the USA have some AFB spores present but not neccesarily have a full blown foulbrood problem. The test might measure some threshold of spores present but is that threshold a problem level that requires intervention? So it's unclear to me what a postive test would be telling the user to do.... we certainly don't need more beekeepers dumping antibiotics into hives as a preventative FB treatment. I'm not sure I would be burning frames either based on a "test" before I actually saw infected larvae. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:47:45 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Migratory Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having seen a lot of the comments on the migratory beekeeping and having bees acclimatise to a certain area, it seems a case of horses for courses. If I left bees in an area to acclimatise, I would gather only a small fraction of the honey I get now. By migrating, I shift strong bees onto a honey flow and get honey. If the hives had been left on the site where I shifted my strong hives too, those hives would be no where near as strong as the ones I migrate in. There is a saying here in Australia that I think sums it up. It is "Build your bees before the flow and not on the flow". If you have an area that will support bees all year round then you may be able to have acclimatised bees but in a true migratory situation, you need to shift if you want to gain an income from your bees. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Had a look at www.apimondia2007.com ? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 06:05:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Discovery Science Channel Segment on Bee Venom Therapy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Watch the video at: http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:51:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm with Mark, if you have melted larvae and the ropiness associated with AFB, you have AFB. The tests are for verification; a second opinion -- which is useful if there is any dispute. For most people, the smart money is on zero tolerance. I don't subscribe to any thresholds because there aren't any accepted thresholds. Furthermore, how will you determine "how bad" the case is? Let's say you decide 5 cells or less, is treatable. How will you find out how many infected cells the colony has? You will have to tear open every cell! What is the point of that! If I find it, I recommend the NY State procedure: kill and burn the hive. Otherwise you run the risk of having it forever. Of course, some commercial operations have AFB firmly entrenched. But look! Some commercial outfits have NO AFB. Zero. What group would you rather be in? The no AFB group or the ones that have to destroy hives every year. (Or worse, cover it up with antibiotics). Just my opinions. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 08:39:46 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let's say you decide 5 cells of AFB or less, is treatable. I run mostly hygienic bees. I burn AFB cases. Unfortunately, got a bit of AFB spread due to a truck wreck containing a diseased colony. I did an experiment last year. Found about a dozen colonies in early spring exhibiting only two or three cells of active AFB. Put them in another yard with no treatment to see if they'd clean it up on their own with a nice pollen flow. Only about two of them did--the disease progressed in the rest. Waste of my time--did shake & bake, and hot-dipped the woodware. I have really good luck shaking two or three AFB colonies out together into a deep of foundation and feeding TM for the first brood cycle. Requeen at first chance to kill the AFB susceptible queen. They act like a swarm, and are often ready for a second box of foundation in week or so. Have done this for years, and rarely see any AFB in any. Randy Oliver Calif -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 11:08:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Scrap Fructose comments by Bob Harrison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison mentioned that in the past there has been linkage of ucsing scrap fructose with bee die-offs. Bob, I buy scrap sugar syrup(The thick stuff that hardens easily if not diluted w/water). What you said alarmed me a little. Even though I have exercised caution to some degree by feeding a hive or two for a few weeks before using in my overall operation, I certainly dont want to take the risk of losing bees en masse. I am aware that it is possible that some problems might not appear til on down the road, so I would heartily appreciate any comments you might have on this matter. One area I would appreciate hearing on is the lag time between feeding and dying. Thanks for any time in commenting. By the way.there is lots of info to weed through on this forum, but it has been a real educational tool for me. Thanks to all John Horton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:49:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I was glad to see Randy's comments and surprised at Peter's. Peter implied that he is aware of commercial operations without AFB who do not treat with Terramyacin or Tylosin as a prophylactic. If we say that a commercial operation must have at least 1,000 hives, I only know of one that makes such a claim. I hope Peter is right, but I know a lot of commercial beekeepers and only one who says he does not treat. Perhaps my sample is skewed because almost all commercial beekeepers around here take their hives south for either the entire winter or a part just before apple pollination. They tell me it is impossible to avoid AFB in the crowded conditions that exist in Florida, the Carolina's, and Virginia. I went 20+ years with no treatment and no signs of AFB, but other than the two initial hives I never bought a comb, frame or box from another beekeeper. Then when I wanted to go from 40 hives to 200, I bought all three from a commercial beekeeper non-migratory) who told me he did not have AFB. Only a year later did I learn he meant 'I don't see AFB because I treat with Terramyacin every spring'. This guy was inspected every year and was not cited for AFB. Presumably because no vegetative state was found (now that I know what it looks like, I know his frames are FULL of scale) and possibly because of the 'buddy system' that might prevail when commercial beekeepers are also inspectors. Some 7 years ago I tried to go without treatment in four yards. The first year I did not have any trouble, but the second was a disaster. Since, I have treated annually, but still find some every spring (perhaps one hive in a 25-hive yard). This coming spring I will again try a few yards without treatment, but only those yards where I have never seen AFB. If I find a hive with a strong population with AFB I will shake them onto foundation and feed. I have never seen AFB again in such a hive. But usually the hives with AFB are weak and then I burn everything, including any supers. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 08:48:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: mark berninghausen Subject: Re: Bees Disappearing Update In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just curious. Are these S.C. bees from migratory or non migratory operations. S.C. gets lots of bees from NY. Mark Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: We've traced this syndrome to ........, South Carolina, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 23:07:05 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: questions on Apedia Boxes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please, 1. Apedia boxes that I have seen have a piece of queen excluder in front of the fondant. Why is it important to keep the Q out of the foundant ? 2. What are the advantages of feeding fondant rather than syrup in Apidea boxes ? 3. In the mini frames we normally use starter strips of wax. What are the advantages of this as against giving them a full mini sheet ? -- Thanks ____________________ Joe Mc Cool Snark, currently LEYC 028 37548074, 07802572441 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 18:12:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > I'm with Mark, if you have melted larvae and the ropiness associated with > AFB, you have AFB. The tests are for verification; a second opinion -- which > is useful if there is any dispute. On the subject of AFB and testing for it, does anyone have any experience with the Holst milk test and would they care to comment on it? I have only read about it. I've never had occasion to try it. George- ---------------------------- George Fergusson Sweet Time Apiary Whitefield Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:15:22 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > I'm with Mark, if you have melted larvae and the ropiness associated with > AFB, you have AFB. The tests are for verification; a second opinion -- > which > is useful if there is any dispute. 'Melted' (unsealed larvae) are a symptom of EFB. AFB is characterised by sunken, greasy, perforated cappings - and ropiness. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:27:32 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: questions on Apedia Boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Mc Cool asked > 1. Apedia boxes that I have seen have a piece of queen excluder in > front of the fondant. Why is it important to keep the Q out of the > foundant ? Bees will sometimes build comb in the feeder. If the queen has access, she could lay in it (and almost certainly will) making it very difficult to manage - guess where the queen will be when you want to catch her! > 2. What are the advantages of feeding fondant rather than syrup in > Apidea boxes ? For me, ease of feeding, less chance of spillage if moving, less chance of bees drowning, bees will only take what they need, no fermentation or mouldy stores. > 3. In the mini frames we normally use starter strips of wax. What > are the advantages of this as against giving them a full mini sheet ? As the boxes are so small, it is a good idea to give them plenty of work to do. As the season progresses it is necessary to cut out some of the comb. I cut out the lower half of each comb, but rather than waste the brood, I stand these pieces upside down on the crownboards of full sized colonies; the wax can be removed later. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 05:40:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: questions on Apidia Boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 30/12/2006 07:57:46 GMT Standard Time, snark@BENBURB.DEMON.CO.UK writes: 1. Apidia boxes that I have seen have a piece of queen excluder in front of the fondant. Why is it important to keep the Q out of the foundant ? We don't want her to get besmeared or to use the fondant box as an extension of the brood nest. 2. What are the advantages of feeding fondant rather than syrup in Apidea boxes ? You fill an Apidea with bees by turning it upside down. This gets messy with syrup. Later feeds can be with syrup. A few fir cones wedged into the feed container give the bees something to stand on. 3. In the mini frames we normally use starter strips of wax. What are the advantages of this as against giving them a full mini sheet ? Full sheets of foundation are walls splitting the colony. The few workers in a mini nuc need to work altogether in a cluster using warmth and gravity to draw their combs. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:06:29 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > does anyone have any experience with the Holst > milk test and would they care to comment on it? Sure. The major weakness of the test is that it depends upon the selection of a suspect AFB scale from the comb, which to me, means that one has already done the diagnostic work, and uses the milk test to simply confirm one's likely very accurate assessment. You take your scale sample, and put it in a disposable test tube or veterinary syringe with 4 ml of a 1% powdered skim milk mixture (1% powdered skim milk in 99% water). The next problem is keeping it warm, the best approach may be to simply turn the oven light on for a few hours rather than trying to heat the oven. You want about 98 F (37 C), but you can be off by a few degrees either way. A decent instant-read thermometer helps here, as does an old muffin pan with sand in the cups to hold the upside-down syringes that you are using as poor man's test tubes. In 20 mins or so, the solution is either still "milky", or has cleared. If it has cleared, the proteases in the AFB scale have broken down the proteins in the milk, and you have a confirmed case of AFB. There's no other proteases in a beehive, so comparing your test sample to an equal amount of the same milk solution in the same type of container will show a significant difference if you have actual AFB scale. Here's a cheap but accurate scale that can measure tiny (0 to 4 gram) weights to mix up some milk "by weight". http://www.villagecoin.com/page/coin/PROD/CnS/ACCURA01 There are several nearly identical versions of this plastic scale, but they all work fine - simple balance scales with little weights. If you mix 1 gram of milk powder with 99 ml of water you have your accurate milk mix, as 1 ml of water weighs 1 gram. The same type of veterinary syringes can be used to measure out the water when mixing. Most "farm stores" carry them, and you can buy them without needles in various sizes for less than a buck each. This approach is clearly not as good as culturing a sample on agar in a petri dish, but I've never heard anyone phoo-phoo it as "inaccurate", and it is both much faster and more simple. Jeff Petis and crew at the USDA Beltsville Bee Lab still do free testing of samples sent in by any beekeeper in the USA, the ultimate "easy way" to get a diagnosis. http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7472 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:17:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lloyd Spear wrote: >Peter implied that he is aware of commercial operations without AFB who do >not treat with Terramyacin or Tylosin as a prophylactic. If we say that a >commercial operation must have at least 1,000 hives Hi Lloyd, I don't see how I "implied" that, but if I did, I didn't mean to. I said I know large scale beekeepers that don't have AFB. I never discussed whether they give Terramycin spring and fall. I expect most do; I would, if there was AFB in my area. However, I would define a "commercial" beekeeper as anyone who is making greater part of his/her living from bees. This would include people with as few as 300 or so hives, in some cases. To supplement this with other income is no crime! For example, a lot of beekeepers enhance their income by buying bulk honey and re-selling it. Some are inventors; some supplement by doing consulting, or hauling other people's hives. More than ever, it is a good idea to have multiple incomes. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:59:36 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 29/12/2006 19:06:43 GMT Standard Time, beegood@GMAIL.COM writes: If I find a hive with a strong population with AFB I will shake them onto foundation and feed. I have never seen AFB again in such a hive. But usually the hives with AFB are weak and then I burn everything, including any supers. In the UK, AFB is a notifiable disease treated by burning. It is very rare nowadays. A recommended way of handling swarms of unknown origin which just might be carrying AFB is to hive them in a cardboard box and leave them for a few days while they are using up any contaminated stores they may have brought with them by constructing the first combs. After a few days the swarm is transferred to a new clean hive with foundation and fed syrup. The cardboard box and comb are burned. Possibly this method might be adapted to US circumstances to reduce the prevalence of AFB. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 10:51:10 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?QXJpIFNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Re: questions on Apedia Boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have been using apidea mating boxes for several years. A good box except for its price. a.. 1. Apedia boxes that I have seen have a piece of queen excluder in > front of the fondant. Why is it important to keep the Q out of the > foundant ? Not out of the fondant but out of the wild combs the bees make after they have eaten the fondant out. I have some hives without the excluder and sometimes the queen is in these wild combs when I look for her. More than doubles the time to catch her. > > 2. What are the advantages of feeding fondant rather than syrup Biggest advantage less robbing. Also with fondant it is easier to fill the bees into the box through the bottom. Feed stays in place when you turn the box upside down. I fill always at beginning with fondant, sometimes add more as liquid, but mostly use fondant to reduce robbing. It took 4 years from my beekeeper friend to figure out that the boxes should be filled with bees from bottom as no one told him. Work change was dramatic and he was quite happy with his *invention*. I take 2,5 dl lightly wetted bees on a cup, slide bottom open, throw fast the bees in and slide the bottom closed fast. Fast and only few bees on the outsides of the boxes. No need to take the frames out. > 3. In the mini frames we normally use starter strips of wax. What > are the advantages of this as against giving them a full mini sheet ? I don't see much difference, but use also only starters, as less foundation is needed. Ari Seppälä Finland -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:29:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Anyone looking for good color photos of AFB symptoms can find them in the back of "Beekeeping in California", available as a PDF file at: http://www.beeguild.org/Books_CA.htm I have even better photos which I could post at Flickr if there I thought there were a demand for it. (You may write to me privately at: peterlborst@gmail.com) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:04:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter Edwards wrote: 'Melted' (unsealed larvae) are a symptom of EFB. AFB affects both larvae and pupae: > Active AFB is characterized by larvae or pupae that have melted down into a viscous pool of light to dark brown liquid lying flat on the cell bottom. During this stage, the rope test can be fairly informative. > The presence of a smooth, light to chocolate brown pupa in the cell with its tongue adhering to the roof of the cell is not a common symptom, but is considered to be diagnostic for AFB. http://www.masterbeekeeper.org/B_files/disease1.htm -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 07:46:47 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Berseth Subject: Casting Foundation Release Agent In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I'm trying to cast some beeswax foundation and wanted to know if there is a release agent that I should use in my mold that won't be harmful to the bees. -John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:57:56 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst quoted: > AFB affects both larvae and pupae: Agreed, but larvae die after, or at the point of capping. > Active AFB is characterized by larvae or pupae that have melted down into > a viscous pool of light to dark brown liquid lying flat on the cell > bottom. I think that the point should be made that this normally happens UNDER the capping; I would have then described them as decomposed rather than melted - but I guess that it is a matter of semantics. My point was that uncapped, discoloured larvae - often described as having a 'melted appearance' (and usually twisted out of position) are normally associated with EFB. >> The presence of a smooth, light to chocolate brown pupa in the cell with > its tongue adhering to the roof of the cell is not a common symptom, but > is > considered to be diagnostic for AFB. ... and would not be seen unless the bees had removed the capping. More good information here: http://beebase.csl.gov.uk/public/BeeDiseases/foulbrood.cfm Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:53:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: AFB photos In-Reply-To: <003c01c72c40$fb018b60$2101a8c0@DF9MK81J> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline FWIW my AFB photos are at http://www.flickr.com/photos/peterlborst/sets/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:21:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter Edwards wrote: >I think that the point should be made that this normally happens UNDER the >capping; I honestly never gave this much thought, since it is the ropiness which we look for, not whether they are or aren't capped. I seem to recall seeing larvae dead from AFB -- before being capped, but you know how memory is. I usually sample the first one I see, and none of my samples ever came back EFB. They were all AFB. The only time I saw EFB was in California some time back in the 1970s. I sent the sample to USDA and got confirmation of EFB. However, I found a recent study on virulence of different strains of AFB and they state that pre-capped larvae DO DIE from AFB but they are not usually seen as the bees are much quicker to remove material from uncapped cells. > During the first 12 to 36 h after hatching, larvae are most susceptible to infection, with a dose of about 10 spores or fewer being sufficient to successfully infect and finally kill a larva. SOURCE: "Differences in Virulence of Paenibacillus" by Elke Genersch, et al. http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/11/7551 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:13:26 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Casting Foundation Release Agent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The usual recipe involves sugar solution with a few drops of washing-up liquid (I cannot remember the quantities as I have not made any for years - but could find it if no-one else has it). However the washing-up liquid causes a foam of small bubbles which can be a nuisance; I found that dishwasher rinse aid worked far better. Incidentally, you should not get discouraged if the first few sheets stick and are not very good; as the mould warms up things improve rapidly! You can rinse the foundation after you have made it. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:28:34 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > My point was that uncapped, > discoloured larvae - often described as having a 'melted appearance' (and > usually twisted out of position) are normally associated with EFB. EFB larvae are normally twisted up onto the sides of the cell, and have the tracheal tubes discolored yellow, but I certainly wouldn't describe them as "melted." They remain much more intact than the melted AFB larvae or pupae. EFB typically kills younger larvae than AFB does. AFB is more a pupal kill. Whether or not the dead pupae are visible depends upon the "hygienicity" (I just coined that term) of the colony. Some colonies don't uncap, some partially uncap (perforations), some fully uncap, some uncap and remove (termed "hygienic bees). Some AFB smells, some doesn't. The distinctive color and disintegration of the exoskeleton (melting) are characteristic field signs. Also, there is usually scale remaining. Not to mention the "rope." Beginners note: if you see perforated caps, and fully formed dead adult bees under the caps, it was probably a varroa kill. Varroa kills also typically have guanine deposits on the cell ceilings, and the combs smell like tobacco (I have no idea why!). Randy Oliver California -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:40:56 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Casting Foundation Release Agent In-Reply-To: <36861.45924.qm@web33210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good luck! I built a beewax foundation casting box and could not prevent the cooled wax from sticking to either and/or both plates. And sometimes it stuck to both sides and tore in some rather interesting, random patterns. One recommendation called for painting the mold with high-gloss enamel paint. It didn't work for me. Another recommended swabbing the plates with whiskey just before pouring in the molten wax. This didn't work and left whiskey "bubbles" in the mold. So I ended up finishing off the bottle myself and took a nice nap. I've even tried to give the mold ample time to cool. Nope. I tried spray cooking oil (PAM) but it didn't work for me either. I finally gave up and went to inserting thin strips of beeswax foundation in the wedge top bar and allowed the bees to draw out "natural" sized cells. It isn't always straight, but it's a lot less aggravating. My mold, which was fun to make, sits in the basement. It's too heavy to ship to anyone. i would gladly give it to anyone who wants to give this endeavor a try. Grant Jackson, MO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 22:46:21 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > However, I found a recent study on virulence of different strains of AFB > http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/11/7551 I found that very interesting, thanks for the link. It would seem to have implications for anyone trying to develop hygienic bees, i.e. the removal of infected material could be due to a more virulent strain of the bacteria killing the larvae earlier, rather than the colonies ability to detect diseased larvae. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:20:19 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Casting Foundation Release Agent In-Reply-To: <36861.45924.qm@web33210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John: I have a few beekeepers that come here yearly for hands-on learning, for making own beeswax foundation that I have done for over two decades now, be if press plates for slam-shut types, or running impression plates thru mangles, or learning how to emboss through rollers. For making blank wax sheets you simply use plain water for release agent. Then with working with any of the above, again, I simply use plain water (not treated tap water) that can be boughten in a store like for putting in car/truck batteries. I then add a few drops lemon oil and few drops bio-degradeable phosphate free liquid soap to get as few bubbles as possible. The smaller the amount the better. Then I simply sponge it on, with to me the sponge being a key part for application uniformly.With hand embossing rollers I also use baggies to do away with fudge factor and the hot freshly made wax sheets the better. For tearing by the way, I add propolis to the wax mix for ductility and strength. Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:18:13 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy wrote: > EFB larvae are normally twisted up onto the sides of the cell, and have > the > tracheal tubes discolored yellow, but I certainly wouldn't describe them > as > "melted." I really do think that it is the word melted that is the problem - we have different perceptions of what it means. What you call melted in AFB, I would describe as decomposed. Larvae with EFB, whilst remaining intact, lose the definition of the segments - something that I, and our NBU, would describe as having a melted appearance; however, I think the main indicator for EFB in the field is the characteristic white gut. I also believe that roping is possible with EFB, depending on the mix of secondary invaders, although it is very unusual. I found it odd that anyone would want to develop a lateral flow device for AFB, as I cannot see the difficulty in identifying AFB in the field - and a demonstration of the device that I saw performed by an NBU inspector gave a false negative even though the AFB had been positively identified in the lab. It would be interesting to know the distribution of the different strains of AFB, particularly whether the more virulent occur only in certain areas. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:47:19 +0000 Reply-To: honeymountain@kilty.demon.co.uk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: james kilty Organization: honey mountain Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees In-Reply-To: <002b01c72c59$76809c00$ad25fea9@jps.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 2006-12-30 at 13:28 -0800, randy oliver wrote: > > > My point was that uncapped, > > discoloured larvae - often described as having a 'melted appearance' (and > > usually twisted out of position) are normally associated with EFB. > > EFB larvae are normally twisted up onto the sides of the cell, and have the > tracheal tubes discolored yellow, but I certainly wouldn't describe them as > "melted." I have seen a mixture - most intact, some rather more melted. I suspect this is as a result of a second infection. Interesting that the gut is "lumpy" and white - an easy diagnosis. james http://www.demon.co.uk/beekeeping.htm -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 10:54:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Bee Breeding Association Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-47011C69 Are there any queen Breeders here, from New England? I'm looking to start a New England Bee Breeders Association. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.0/610 - Release Date: 12/30/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:19:55 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Bee Breeding Association MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 31/12/2006 16:02:22 GMT Standard Time, mpalmer@TOGETHER.NET writes: Are there any queen Breeders here, from New England? I'm looking to start a New England Bee Breeders Association. I wonder to what extent you may be trying to reinvent the wheel. BIBBA (The Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders' Association) already has its membership spread over several countries, principally UK and Ireland. I see no particular reason why people can't communicate ideas across an ocean as easily as a sea. The AGM is usually held in England but the annual gathering of members at Gormanston in Ireland is better attended. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:53:21 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Peter wrote: > I really do think that it is the word melted that is the problem > Same disease on your side of the pond, different adjectives. > I found it odd that anyone would want to develop a lateral flow device for > AFB, as I cannot see the difficulty in identifying AFB in the field Ditto. There is the rare instance when I see unclear symptoms, especially since we got the mite. In those instances, a test might help, but it's probabaly cheaper to either burn 'em if it's a collapsing colony, or give 'em a course of terramycin if they are strong, and watch. When I see the rare unusual virulent unidentified disease, I question whether I want those combs to remain in my operation! Better to burn and be done with it--same if one of my neighbors comes down with smallpox. : ) Randy Oliver -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 13:29:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bee Breeding Association In-Reply-To: <413.2dcf50dd.32c94b3b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-117567D > I see no particular >reason why people can't communicate ideas across an ocean as easily as a >sea. Sure Chris. Communication is important. But I want to get NE breeders together to share stock. BIBBA can't do that for us. Importation laws, don't you know. Also, I want to provide consumers with a place to buy northern grown stock free from AHB. BIBBA can't do this either. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.0/610 - Release Date: 12/30/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:09:45 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Bee Breeders' Association MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, It might be worth looking at the fine print of the importation laws to see whether semen or fertile eggs are prohibited. We in the UK are relatively free of AHB despite the efforts of Brother Adam. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---