From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:52:18 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.2 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730E6480EC for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFkpIH016612 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:16 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0701A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 100235 Lines: 2343 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:44:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Casting Foundation Release Agent In-Reply-To: <039f01c72c57$58f4e5d0$c2ff6a58@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter wrote: "As the mould warms up things improve rapidly" Wow. Maybe I just gave up too soon, or didn't stick with it long enough. But what a pain. I wondered how in the world people got these things to work. Now at least I have a little bit of hope. A couple of people have sent me e-mails "off-list" to ask about my mold, how I built it, what materials, etc. Some have asked if it works with small cell, drone foundation, etc. I have plans that I copied out of an ancient book at the library. If you wish to make your own mold, I will gladly copy my copies and send them along. Then you can choose whatever size foundation want. The foundation mold is like a book. It has a hinge that you shut on molten wax, and once cooled, lift it up and peel off the sheet you just molded. Maybe if I ran the hair dryer over the mold first, then add the wax, it would release my foundation sooner. Peter, you're a breath of fresh air! These plans are not digitalized for internet or e-mail. I'll have to snail-mail them. You can send me your address with a buck or two to cover postage and copying costs, and I'll send the plans right back. Grant Gillard 3721 North High Jackson, MO 63755 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:12:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Re: Casting Foundation Release Agent In-Reply-To: <704927.88276.qm@web31613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A couple of people have sent me e-mails "off-list" to ask about my mold, >how I built it, what materials, etc. Some have asked if it works with >small cell, drone foundation, etc. I knew exactly what you are talking about. I had to dig through the personal library to find it. "Keeping Bees" by John Vivian, 1986 Williamson Publishing, Vermont Page 131 "Making a foundation press", Page 137, "Making foundation" He uses "Pam" as a release. You can make copies of any foundation. You cast your original in a book of cement faced with water putty. There is a layer of plaster between the cement and putty. The water putty die is painted with poly or clear floor paint. There are a lot of pictures showing how to make the press and foundation. It doesn't look hard to make or use. It is a whole lot cheaper than buying an embossing machine. Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:53:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "James W. Hock" Subject: Re: Bee Breeding Association In-Reply-To: <413.2dcf50dd.32c94b3b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 31/12/2006 16:02:22 GMT Standard Time, mpalmer@TOGETHER.NET writes: >Are there any queen Breeders here, from New England? The Backyard Beekeepers just set up a yard last year in (I think)Easton, CT. I'm in that club, but have not seen the yard yet. I just breed for my own stock. There are several people in CT that "grow their own". I don't think any of them are breeding for sale or are on the BEE-L list. Most that I know of came to SNEBA with us. Rollin Hannan, Larry O'Conner and Ted Jones would know and have contact lists. >I'm looking to start a New England Bee Breeders Association. Sounds like fun. I'm in. Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 22:35:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bee Breeding Association In-Reply-To: <008601c72dd6$27dacb10$6d01a8c0@AdHock> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-38611571 > Most that I >know of came to SNEBA with us. Rollin Hannan, Larry O'Conner and Ted Jones >would know and have contact lists. They're on the list. Did I meet you at SNEBA. Met too many beekeepers to remember. Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: 12/31/2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:17:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Adony_Melathopoulos?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB in Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was glad for this interesting thread. I have been thinking about some of these issues myself and I will pipe in on two issues: 1. Virulence and Hygienic Behaviour. I liked Peter Edwards line of thinking regaring how lines of bees selected to hygienic behaviour would respond to a P. larvae strain that kills larvae early in life versus later in life. I think his line of thinking is valuable and worth pursuing. The recent finding (which Peter Borst brought to BEE-Ls attention) demonstrates that fast killing strains kill about 80% of the larvae before the larvae are capped, compared to only about 30% with the strains most of us are use to. Many of these fast killing strains were previously classified as P. pulvifaceans, although the current study observed that regular AFB-symptoms resulted from infection and not the powdery scale disease previously reported in the 1970s. Back to my point. I wonder if hygienic behaviour is most useful with the slower-killing strains, as perhaps these infections are harder for a colony to find as the death is mostly post-capping (thus somewhat concealed under cappings). An interesting and untested hypothesis. This finding also leaves loose threads regarding how the speed at which a strain kills a larvae constitues virulence. Which is more virulent, a fast or slow-killing strain? I am interested in arguements which support either possibility and I am even more interested in an experimental test of this hypothesis. 2. Testing for AFB from samples. I work in a lab that has been taking bulk honey and adult bee samples from large (300-5000 colonies) operations in Western Canada with the hope of correlating the level of AFB in the samples with actual levels in the colonies. This work is being done with the hope that it will help larger beekeepers and government inspection services who may be having difficulty inspecting a representative number of colonies. Typically, from a very big operation (3000 colonies) a beekeeper would collect 70-120 honey samples during the duration of the honey harvest and we would correlate the number of spores back to the level of AFB found during inspection. A summary of early results appears at this link: http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/articles/2006/pernal_1.pdf A few interesting findings that relate to the current discussion are: - We never found spores at any time in some beekeeping commercial beekeeping operations. Some of these beekeepers stopped using antibiotic treatments and did not experience the reoccurance of AFB that Lloyd Spears experienced. This test, consequently, may be useful in indicating when a beekeeper has a low risk of getting AFB. - Over time, the level of tetracycline resistance increased even though oxytetracycline use was discontinued. Consequently, oxytetracycline may not be useful in some beekeeping operations for a longer period of time than some might have expected. - We observed a loose correlation between AFB prevalence and spore numbers in samples. We are continuing to collect samples and analyse our data with hopes of finding stronger relationships. Regards, Adony -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:17:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Erin Martin Subject: Spirit of the Beehive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all-- This is a bit of an odd question, but I just watched the wonderful Spanish movie "the Spirit of the Beehive." I'm trying to write about it, but I don't know what kind of hive is shown in the movie or if it even exists in non-cinematic form. Can anyone who's seen the movie shed any light on this? Thanks! Erin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 00:31:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Spirit of the Beehive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Can anyone who's seen the movie shed any light on this? I love this film; also Anna Torrent and Fernando Fernan Gomez. Have you seen other films of his, like "The Grandfather"? Are you asking about the hives that he is looking at in the beginning of the movie, or the glass hive in the house? pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:50:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Testing for AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In regard to testing for AFB spores in honey from large commercial operations, Andony said "Some of these beekeepers stopped using antibiotic treatments and did not experience the reoccurance of AFB that Lloyd Spears experienced." I am pleased to hear this. Coincidently, just yesterday I heard another instance of much the same. This beekeeper, in Central New York, had treated propholaticaly with terramyacin for the better part of 20 years. About five years ago he started seeing AFB in treated hives, had them tested, and found that he had terramyacin-resistant AFB. As a consequence, he stopped all treatments and went to burning. I was pleastntly surprised (1) that he did not substitute Tylosin for Terramyacin and (2) that he has not experienced the overwhelming infection rates that I saw in the few yards where I stopped propholatic treatments. During the past few years I have been agressively replacing brood comb in an attempt to get rid of wax contaminated with fluvalinate and coumaphous. Hpefully many of the combs burned also contained AFB spores. In 2007 I will again stop all AFB treatments in a few yards and see if I have better luck. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 21:41:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: bees shun frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Laura Costas theredbudtree@earthlink.net Silver Spring, MD GM: BEES SHUN BIOTECH; COLDIRETTI, NATURE DEFENDS ITSELF (AGI) - Rome, Jan 3 - The fact that bees are staying away from fields cultivated with genetically modified organisms and the consequent reduction in pollination is a scientific alarm for agriculture and the environment, which justifies the precaution and gives value to the zero tolerance decision made by Italian agriculture against biotech, said Coldiretti, commenting on the results of study by the Department of Biological Sciences of Simon Fraser University from British Columbia, Canada. The study, which was published by the Ecological Society of America, showed that in fields cultivated with GM rapes the number of bees fell sharply, with a serious deficit in pollination compared to traditionally grown fields. Besides being insects useful for agriculture due to their pollination activities, which help crop-growing, bees have always been an important sensor to evaluate the quality of agricultural systems, Coldiretti said. Their diffidence of GM products is therefore a signal from nature that should not be underestimated. Bees ability to distinguish GM plants from normal plants also shows that the two crops are not equivalent. Coldiretti said that this confirms the concern about the effects of co-existence between traditional crops and biotech crops and it shows that more research and testing is needed to verify the effects on the agricultural ecosystem. This study justifies the growing opposition to GM products as food: three out of four Italians (74 percent) say they believe GM products are not healthy, an opinion which has grown by 4 percent, according to the 2006 Coldiretti-ISPO Investigation on Italians' opinions about nutrition. It is a signal which is coherent with the path chosen by Italian agriculture which, also thanks to Coldiretti's work for food quality and security, is free from GM products and has garnered the European leadership in biological foods and traditional products. (AGI) - 031817 GEN 07 COPYRIGHTS 2002-2006 AGI S.p.A. Received from Laura I just had to send the information here. Regards, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:41:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Bees shun Frankenfood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>>>in fields cultivated with GM rapes the number of bees fell sharply, with a serious deficit in pollination compared to traditionally grown fields.<<<<< Educate me. I thought that the point of GM-ing rape was to make it self pollinating> Dick Marron -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:18:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Eric_Brown?= Subject: Re: Bees shun Frankenfood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:41:27 -0500, Dick Marron wrote: >Educate me. I thought that the point of GM-ing rape was to make it self >pollinating> I'm somewhat familiar with GMO's, and the only commercially available genetic modifications that I'm aware of are the addition of Bt and round-up- ready genes. The Bt is a pesticide (normally/naturally produced by some bacteria) that the plant then manufactures. Round-up is a broad spectrum herbicide and the round-up-ready genetic modification makes plants immune to the herbicide, so that farmers can spray a whole field with herbicide, theoretically killing everything but the GM crop. There may very well be some other commercially available genetic modifications, but making any plant self-pollinating seems like an unlikely trick to accomplish with GM. Genes can't be "invented" or "customized"; they can only be moved around between species, and it's hard for me to see where anyone could find a self-pollinating "gene." Please correct me if I'm wrong. Eric -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:22:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Diotima Booraem Subject: Re: Bees shun Frankenfood In-Reply-To: <000d01c73016$cda40240$6401a8c0@NOTEBOOK> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Educate me. I thought that the point of GM-ing rape was to make it self >pollinating> No, the point is to make it Roundup-resistant. Canola (rape) is already about 70% self-pollinating. But it is still a major nectar source for bees where it is grown, and GM canola can and has already outcrossed to non-GM canola, making volunteer (weed) canola more difficult to manage, not to mention giving Monsanto a reason to sue farmers who were unlucky enough to have their non-GM crop cross - pollinate with nearby GM canola. Regards, Diotima ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "If there is a better solution...find it" Thomas Edison Virtual Assistance: The better solution for small business. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Diotima Booraem, CPVA Virtual Executive Assistance http://www.virtualhelp.biz E-mail: diotima@virtualhelp.biz -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:05:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Janet A. Katz" Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants In-Reply-To: AAAAAKKhfoZ4X0xBkrev0RFFXR3E604A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dee Lusby posted: "GM: BEES SHUN BIOTECH; COLDIRETTI, NATURE DEFENDS ITSELF (AGI) - Rome, Jan 3..." Before that claim is made, I would want to know the details of the study, e.g., were ALL factors equal, i.e., weather, soil condition, soil PH, time of year, location (was there any better nectar source within range that the bees were already working), same race of bees, condition of bees, were they feral colonies only or managed colonies, etc. There are so many variables; I'd like to see how the study managed them, before making any conclusions based on the article posted. Does anyone have access to this study? I did a quick look at the Ecological Society of America website and the Simon Fraser University website and couldn't find anything. Janet A. Katz Chester, NJ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:36:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dee Lusby quotes: > The fact that bees are staying away from fields cultivated with genetically modified organisms and the consequent reduction in pollination is a scientific alarm for agriculture and the environment This would be a lot more interesting if the writer backed up "the fact" with a link to the actual report but she doesn't. Turns out, as usual, the situation is a bit more complicated than this presentation of it. First off, the study is only about rapeseed ("canola"). Second, it isn't only GM plants the bees stay away from but "conventional" crops as well. Third, the authors freely admit that "little is known". For example, we don't know if the effect is caused by the plants, the crop method, the herbicides used, or the abundance of weeds in the organic fields. These authors wisely state "little is known" -- rather than presenting the information as a "fact". QUOTE > The ecological impacts of agriculture are of concern, especially with genetically modified and other intensive, modern cropping systems, yet little is known about effects on wild bee populations and subsequent implications for pollination. Pollination deficit (the difference between potential and actual pollination) and bee abundance were measured in organic, conventional, and herbicide-resistant, genetically modified (GM) canola fields (Brassica napus and B. rapa) in northern Alberta, Canada, in the summer of 2002. ... There was no pollination deficit in organic fields, a moderate pollination deficit in conventional fields, and the greatest pollination deficit in GM fields. Bee abundance was greatest in organic fields, followed by conventional fields, and lowest in GM fields. < FROM: WILD BEE ABUNDANCE AND SEED PRODUCTION IN CONVENTIONAL, ORGANIC, AND GENETICALLY MODIFIED CANOLA by Lora A. Morandin, and Mark L. Winston Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University, 8888 University Drive, Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada © Copyright by Ecological Society of America 2005 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:22:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WILD BEE ABUNDANCE AND SEED PRODUCTION IN CONVENTIONAL, ORGANIC, AND GENETICALLY MODIFIED CANOLA LORA A. MORANDIN AND MARK L. WINSTON The study in question looks into why wild bees are less abundant in GM canola fields. While their study does seem to confirm this observation, they never suggest that the effect is due to some essential difference in the canola itself. The plants apparently produce nectar and pollen normally. Like it or not, genetically modified food is now the norm, at least in the US. So far, it apparently causes no serious harm. I believe, as many people do, we should proceed with caution in the development of new technologies. I also think that it is very important to deal with facts and not be swayed by what may be emotional arguments. We are talking about food and people's perception of what is "safe". It does no good to anyone to raise false alarms. * * * Quoted for review purposes only: Different cropping methods associated with GM, conventional, and organic canola may affect wild bee abundance in fields. Transgenic herbicide-resistant canola fields can be treated with broad-spectrum herbicides after canola emergence, resulting in more effective weed control than in conventional systems. Organic canola growers primarily rely on pre-sowing tillage and fast growing canola varieties for weed management and, consequently, organic fields tend to have larger amounts and greater diversity of weeds than conventional and GM fields (L. A. Morandin and M. L. Winston, unpublished data). Although insecticide treatments were similar between GM and conventional fields, GM fields were treated with Roundup, a highly effective herbicide, which resulted in lower weed diversity and abundance within GM fields than in conventional fields (unpublished data), possibly affecting bee abundance. Williams (2002) suggested that herbicide-tolerant crops such as oilseed rape (B. napus and rapa), because they employ more effective weed control strategies than non-GM rape, will possibly reduce weedy and nonweedy farmland plants, causing a reduction in food resources for insects, including bees. Ecological Applications, 15(3), 2005, pp. 871–881 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:54:33 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Peter is right - this work is being quoted wrongly. It was not a study to comment on whether or not bees 'stay away' from GM, conventional or organic canola (aka oilseed rape). They will only 'shun' something if they can tell the difference, and it seems most unlikely that they can discriminate GM from non-GM canola. The study estimated the numbers of bees present in such crops, and commented that: 'Our study illustrates the importance of wild bees to agricultural production and suggests that some agroecosystems may better sustain wild bee abundance, resulting in greater seed production.' So, the farms and the areas around the farms sustain different-sized populations of wild bees. Perhaps GM farmers are 'neater' farmers, permitting less wild and semi-wild habitat on their farms. Maybe they are just more trigger-happy with their pesticides in general. Perhaps more GM than conventional seed, and no organic canola seed, is dressed with imidacloprid. Perhaps organic farmers are more likely to be the kind of people that maintain wildlife habitat reserves on their land. Who knows?! Morandin and Winston don't appear to know, as they say: 'Further research on why some cropping systems, such as genetically modified, herbicide-resistant canola, have low wild bee abundance would be useful for management of agroecosystems to promote sustainability of food production.' No claims are being made that bees are 'staying away' from GM. As I recall Allen Dick used to make part of his income from pollination services for GM canola seed production - are you out there Allen?! The full abstract is here, as is the full paper for anyone with a subscription: http://www.esajournals.org/esaonline/?request=get-toc&issn=1051-0761&volume=015&issue=03 all the best Gavin -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:45:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Microwaving honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I occasionly have a need for small amounts of honey to stimulate egglaying and such...on the order of a few quarts. i especlailly dont want to endanger my breeder queens by risking foulbrood. Any ideas about microwaving? Specifically : How much microwaving is necessary to kill AFB + spores? Would this harm the honey to do this? Any comments that would exceed speculation would be appreciated. thanks John Horton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:06:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants In-Reply-To: <002901c73031$c709fdc0$04000005@mshome.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Givan said: No claims are being made that bees are 'staying away' from GM. As I recall Allen Dick used to make part of his income from pollination services for GM canola seed production - are you out there Allen?! Answer: In Alberta, beekeepers move annually over 50,000 bee colonies for pollination of GM hybrid canola. We have not experienced any suggested problems that mentioned in this report. In fact, farmers grow GM hybrid canola for seed production in rows that are male rows alternated with female rows. This system is designed to collect all intended genes in one hybrid cultivar for use by farmers. To produce seeds, this system requires honey bees for pollination. Therefore, hybrid canola growers use honey bees for pollination. GM Hybrid seeds produced from these specific farms are used by farmers for commercial production of canola seed for crushing to extract oil. I may also add that a good percentage of canola grown in Alberta is hybrid canola. Honey bees make good honey crop (80-140lb/hive) from canola fields. Would this be an evidence to show bees forage on hybrid canola? Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:08:19 -0700 Reply-To: allen dick Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Organization: Deep Thought Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > No claims are being made that bees are 'staying away' from > GM. As I recall Allen Dick used to make part of his income > from pollination services for GM canola seed production - > are you out there Allen?! I doubt that any difference between canola varieties that bees--or anyone--can detect in the fields would be due to the GMO aspect. All canolas are altered from the original rape varieties. Reaching back into antiquity, the method of improving crops was by selection and propagation of 'superior' individuals found in general plant populations. Some were the result of crosses and others from natural mutation. Over succeeding generations, repeated selection amplified desirable characteristics and eliminated the undesirable ones, eventually creating a new high-yielding, disease resistant crop varieties suited to various purposes and localities. In the past century or so--maybe longer?--breeders,not satisfied with the slow rate of natural mutation, subjected seeds to harsh chemicals and/or radiation to encourage random mutation. The result was to increase the variability from which to select and thus speed up progress, Either one or both of these two methods produced many/most of the "non-GMO" farm crops in popular use today. In the past quarter century, however, the process changed from being a shotgun approach, creating many random mutations, to a carefully targeted process. Using new gene manipulation methods, technicians design and generate 'mutations' by methodically inserting specific promising genes, rather than by merely creating genetic chaos and picking the 'good' results--if any--from the mess of random natural, chemical and radiation assisted mutation. So, knowing the above, we can understand that there is no magic difference between 'GMO' and non-GMO crops. Actually all crops are genetically modified from the original stock. The only difference is how the mutation and selection were accomplished, what the criteria were, and how long the transformation took. That having been said, all crops are selected for various properties, and in flowering crops, nectar production and pollen nutrition for bees are not necessarily a top priority--unless the breeders are reminded of the needs of pollinators, so in some cases, nectar secretion may suffer. As we have learned in bee breeding, seeking one desirable characteristic may result in diminution of others that are just as important. Only so many criteria can be set before the task becomes impossible. Seed fields are very carefully controlled genetically, so all plants are very close genetically. Since the fields are so homogenous we have noticed distinct variations in attractiveness and nectar production from year to year and variety to variety. This is due to the selection, and IMO has nothing to do with whether the crop is 'GMO' or not. Commercial canola crops, using commercial seed, tend to be very clean (no weeds) and well-sprayed, as well as being comprised of genetically almost identical plants. In our experience with pollinating commercial seed crops, plants are grown in huge expanses, with no competing bee forage in the margins or, sometimes even the neighbourhood. (At other times, alfalfa or other crops will be available nearby). Often there are often no landmarks in the fields, so the bees tend to work the margins or near any landmarks there may be, distorting the distribution. Moreover such crops tend to bloom all at once and often only for a few days/weeks. With no weeds or other bait to have trained the bees to the crop, bees may ignore it if they are happy elsewhere. Temperature and time of day are huge factors, too. I've been out counting bees per square metre, and understanding what is happening is not simple. That is all a long way of saying that I have never seen any evidence that bees avoid any canola, whether it be the older varieties or the newer ones, and whether it is Roundup Ready, or Bayer's equivalent, Liberty Link, or not. Any differences observed are, IMO, due to the sudden short bloom period of commercial crops and lack of weed attractors, when compared to less intensely managed crops of similar varieties. The possibly of an unfortunate oversight in selection that affects timing, temperature sensitivity or attractiveness of the nectar or pollen production (which would have nothing to do with GMO) can occur in any variety under development or maintenance, and smart beekeepers maintain contact with plant breeders to keep our needs on their minds when they are selecting. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:01:53 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Bees shun Frankenfood In-Reply-To: <000d01c73016$cda40240$6401a8c0@NOTEBOOK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dick: I thought that the point of GM-ing rape was to make it self pollinating> Reply: Really?....well, let me stir the pot a little then with basic thought. In a field of rape planted, not that it isn't somewhat close together anyways and might/could be pollenated by wind anyways or other, like corn or other......the pollen is still there FWIW. In one case the bees are on, in another case they avoid it? What is the difference? What is in the pollen they are avoiding? Do you want to eat it if the bees don't or other insects? What about the long-term eating effects of final product then? Are the bees trying to tell us something if we would just look? Bees hurting for some reason w/compounded stress in your area? What is the final breaking point? How much of this also does migratory see by the way? Many questions could be asked,But then what do I know...... Respectfully submitted, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:11:56 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: more on bees shunning frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all: Here is more information. Regards, Dee A. Lusby Small Cell Commercial Beekeeper Moyza, Arizona http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organicbeekeepers/ ------------------ http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_3665.cfm Wild Bees Reject Genetically Engineered Crop--Potential Major Impact on Pollination Ecological Society of America, Dec 23, 2006 >From Ecological Society of America Referring to a Sept. 2004 peer- reviewed article Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University, 8888 University Drive, Burnaby, British Columbia, V5A 1S6, Canada Abstract. The ecological impacts of agriculture are of concern, especially with genetically modified and other intensive, modern cropping systems, yet little is known about effects on wild bee populations and subsequent implications for pollination. Pollination deficit (the difference between potential and actual pollination) and bee abundance were measured in organic, conventional, and herbicide- resistant, genetically modified (GM) canola fields (Brassica napus and B. rapa) in northern Alberta, Canada, in the summer of 2002. Bee abundance data were collected using pan traps and standardized sweep netting, and pollination deficit was assessed by comparing the number of seeds per fruit from open-pollinated and supplementally pollinated flowers. There was no pollination deficit in organic fields, a moderate pollination deficit in conventional fields, and the greatest pollination deficit in GM fields. Bee abundance was greatest in organic fields, followed by conventional fields, and lowest in GM fields. Overall, there was a strong, positive relationship between bee abundance at sampling locations and reduced pollination deficits. Seed set in B. napus increased with greater bee abundance. Because B. rapa is an obligate outcrossing species, the lack of pollination deficit in the organic (B. rapa) fields likely was due to the high bee abundance rather than a lower dependence of B. rapa on pollinators than B. napus canola. Our study illustrates the importance of wild bees to agricultural production and suggests that some agroecosystems may better sustain wild bee abundance, resulting in greater seed production. Further research on why some cropping systems, such as genetically modified, herbicide-resistant canola, have low wild bee abundance would be useful for management of agroecosystems to promote sustainability of food production. Key words: agriculture; bees; Brassica rapa; Brassica napus; canola; conventional; genetically modified; organic; pollination; sustainable development. Manuscript received 3 September 2003; revised 3 September 2004; accepted 8 September 2004. Corresponding Editor: C. R. Linder © Copyright by Ecological Society of America 2005 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:39:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: more on bees shunning frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all: Key here is, if I may quote: "Further research on why some cropping systems, such as genetically modified, herbicide-resistant canola, have low wild bee abundance would be useful for management of agroecosystems to promote sustainability of food production." So if herbicide resistant plants are a result or roundup incorporated too, would that need further research to understand why and to what extent it makes bees avoid the plants? Could it be harmful to them some way with the pretty pollen, like those shiny red apples? Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:05:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: Microwaving honey In-Reply-To: <000701c73038$dc9ac1e0$cee84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John & Christy Horton wrote: > > Specifically : > How much microwaving is necessary to kill AFB + spores? > I deal with bacteria at work from time to time, and unfortunately, microwaves are not really useful as a sterilizing agent. They only kill microorganisms by heating, not by causing direct damage to the bacterial cells the way that, say, gamma rays would. So, microwaving is no more effective for killing bacterial spores than direct heating would be. In fact, it is likely to be less effective, because microwave ovens usually leave cold spots. > Would this harm the honey to do this? Almost certainly. If you get hot enough to kill AFB spores, you are well up into carmelization temperatures. Reliably killing bacterial spores with heat requires an autoclave (about 125 deg. C, or about 260 deg. F) for at least 10 minutes. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:06:33 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bees Disappearing Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit migratory -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:21:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: more on bees shunning frankenfood plants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dee Lusby wrote: >would that need further research to understand why and to what extent it makes bees avoid the plants? Nowhere does the report say that bees are "avoiding" the fields. This is a misunderstanding. Simply because there is a lack of bees in a particular field does not therefore mean that the bees are "shunning" it. I think one would be hard pressed to show that bees "avoid" anything, except fires or bad weather. They certainly do plenty of dumb thing things: like fly into honey tanks and fresh snow. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:25:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A little history, about 2/3's of my 300 colonies are in used equipment I purchased from other beekeepers. I quit "preventative" TM applications 4 seasons ago and went to a shake and bake approach. I should also mention during this time (last 4 years) I gradually took over 150 hives from a mentor who used TM religiously for 20 years or more and had plenty of FB in his hives. Initially we just burn any real obvious FB frames/colonies as we took over the hives in spring or unwrapped our own. The other bad actors would flare up in May and June during buildup and those we would shake into clean equipment and bake (burn) the old. I'm still fighting the battle in a few yards where a flare up occurs mostly during spring buildup but over all my incidence of FB is way down from the time period before I went cold turkey on antibiotics . When we have a large number, say 10-20 shake and bake hives put back together we would treat them with TM and move all of them to a "sick" yard to isolate the problem hives. I'd say about 1/4 of the shake and bake hives had a reoccurence the rest did not. . I am now a firm believer that cold turkey is the way to go along with shake and bake and an isolation approach.. I have even had some success in reusing comb from a foul brood hive in situations where a newer deep with newer comb had been used for a short time period on top of what turned out to be an infected hive body after a split was made. We'd toss the real bad hive body and frames and cherry pick the combs in the newer deep, meaning toss the brood comb with infected larvae but leave the end frames with honey. So what I'm saying is you can get by without tossing every single frame in a double deep hive in certain situations. I figure the loss of equipment is made up by the fact that a higher percentage of my colonies are producing hives rather then coasting several dozen worthless FB hives through the season with TM treatments and no production and just prolonging the inevitable burn pile. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:25:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: more on bees shunning frankenfood plants In-Reply-To: <707134.80582.qm@web51613.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thanks Dee for sending more info. The research abstract reported finding of low numbers of wild bees on GMO fields. The authors did not explain why. They suggested to do further research. What I see in the published abstract a hypothesis to be tested. There is no cause and effect relationship established to explain why low numbers of bees on these plants. Simply this is a hypothesis that needs to be tested. Being in Alberta, If you visit Alberta in summer, you will find thousands of acres covered with yellow canola flowers. It looks like a yellow carpet. This is a monoculture of one crop grown on thousands of acres in one location. This type of agroecosystem could effect the foraging behaviour of any bees. On the other hand, organic rape is grown away from canola to avoid any drifting of GM pollen and farmers need to comply with requirements set by the organic food certifiers. Therefore, you will find several other crops grown near the organic fields. This type of diversified (Multi-crops) agroecosystem such as the one for organic rape, might promote more bees and different kind of bees to be attracted. Talking about bees, some bee species are polylectic. these are bees that visit flowers of many plant species. The best example is the honey bee. Other bee species are known to be oligolectic. These bees visit flowers of a limited number of species, sometimes but not necessarily close related. Monlectic bees, these are bees or insect species that visit flowers of one or very few species. This type of feeding specialization could be also a factor that should be considered in this type of study. I am sure that this type of subject is an interesting subject to study. The agroecostsem can be very complex and too many variables have to be considered. I hope that my points will shed some lights on the subject. We need to keep our minds open and look at the full picture. This type of healthy discussion could list many factors involved in this system. It will interesting to find out what future studies on will say. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:39:51 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: more on bees shunning frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All Dee wrote: > So if herbicide resistant plants are a result or roundup > incorporated too, would that need further research to > understand why and to what extent it makes bees avoid the > plants? Could it be harmful to them some way with the > pretty pollen, like those shiny red apples? There is no evidence that the bees are avoiding the plants! There were fewer bees per sq metre on GM canola as compared to the other types, that is all. And more on organic than conventional. There are good reasons why this could happen and they relate to the whole agroecosystem, not the exact genetic make-up of the crop. Allen is right that some cultivars (GM or not) are intrinsically more attractive than others (GM or not) but there may be better explanations for what is happening here. It is well known that agricultural intensification jeopardises wild bee populations and that this can affect the pollination of crops (see Klein et al below). More intense systems mean fewer bees, due to less bee habitat and often more pesticides. Fewer bees in the environment mean fewer bees seen on crops when the crops come into flower. Another interaction in this system is the size of fields and the total area of the crop. A sudden flush of high sugar nectar-secreting attractant such as canola for just a few weeks attracts pollinators from the surrounding area. If there are few, small fields then the number of wild bees seen per sq metre in canola will be relatively high. If there are many, large fields the pollinators spread out and few will be seen per sq metre. It seems likely that *farms* with GM canola will be different in some way from conventional farms and that these will be different from organic. These will be the types of factors causing the results described. hope that helps Gavin Alexandra-Maria Klein1, *, Bernard E. Vaissière2, James H. Cane3, Ingolf Steffan-Dewenter1, Saul A. Cunningham4, Claire Kremen5 & Teja Tscharntke1 Importance of pollinators in changing landscapes for world crops Proceedings of The Royal Society B ISSN: 0962-8452 (Paper) 1471-2954 (Online) Issue: Volume 274, Number 1608 / 07 February 2007 Pages: 303-313 DOI: 10.1098/rspb.2006.3721 http://www.journals.royalsoc.ac.uk/media/1exdm0dvmk6ynk9h9j5m/contributions/8/w/4/2/8w42n6v08k761023_html/pdf/PB070303.pdf -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:23:35 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: Microwaving honey In-Reply-To: <000701c73038$dc9ac1e0$cee84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit AFB spores are highly heat-resistant. (Burnside, 1940, The thermal resistance of Bacillus larvae, J Econ Entomol 33, 39-408) Honey, on the other hand, is not. Heating honey to the point necessary to kill AFB spores will carmelize the honey. Fructose carmelizes at 110C (230F). Glucose and sucrose carmelize at 160C (320F). Carmelized honey will kill the bees. I don't remember the exact biological mechanism by which carmelized honey kills the bees but I'm know it's in the BEE-L archives. Straight sugar-water has been proven to be better for the bees for winter feeding and is effective at stimulating egglaying. The study proving that is also in the archives. Mike Rossander Mike Rossander __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:02:22 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Microwaving honey In-Reply-To: <000701c73038$dc9ac1e0$cee84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If you're only going to feed a few quarts, why not just use sucrose syrup? Perhaps you have personal reservations about feeding plain white sugar? Grant Jackson, MO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 07:01:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants In-Reply-To: <00b401c73044$76efb9c0$4b00a8c0@Pericles> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You could have run the same study on blueberries in Maine and had the same results. Large plantings of a single crop with a limited bloom and no competition from other nectar sources to sustain feral bees over the year is the reason for migratory beekeepers. The study is fine. It is the next stage, where extrapolation, propaganda and politics takes charge that you have a problem. BTW, I noted today on our local weather forecast that we have an additional eight minutes of daylight here in Maine. I have kept a record of the increase and it is speeding up. Based on my scientific data, sometime next winter we will have no more night. The only change I have noted to cause this is our local shipbuilder has started work on a new warship. We need to stop the Military Industrial Complex from destroying night. Send money to stop this threat to our very existence.. Bill Truesdell (I prefer large bills.) Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:05:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan&jan Subject: Re: Microwaving honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Any ideas about microwaving?<< How about a pressure cooker- add some water to the cooker- process @ 15 pounds for 20 minutes. Microwave will not heat uniformly Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC zone 6a -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan&jan Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have a basic dilemma with goldenrod and HONEYBEES in our area. Some years, REGARDLESS OF GROWING AND WEATHER CONDITIONS, our honeybees do not work goldenrod. It is not that there are other nectar sources as they are not collecting anything and we have to feed them. >From what I know the "experts" both professional and beekeepers cannot explain this phenomenon. I believe there is a lot we do not understand about the plant physiology and interactions with honeybees. If anyone can explain our goldenrod situation we would love to hear it Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC zone 6a -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:19:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Beelosses, update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All We will be at the National Meetings next week. Scott Debnam will be at the Federation meetings, he's scheduled for the early bird presentation and for the commercial SIG. A discussion of the bee loss - disappearing disease syndrome - is scheduled for Sat. morning. I will be at AHPA and the concurrent sessions of the bee inspectors and bee researchers -- arrive Tuesday afternoon. At there meetings we will be distributing two surveys. 1) a National Bee Los s survey, and 2) a wish list survey for what beekeepers would like to know from their hives at remote locations (e.g. weight, rainfall, hive temp., etc.) We have development money to build a hive or pallet that can communicate with you via a text message to your phone or e-mail to your PC. We have the satellite communications systems in place -- $5 per month for up to 20 calls from the beeyard. We expect to have the manufacturing prototype's rolling off the assembly line this summer. This is your chance to tell us what a remote communicating hive/pallet needs to tell you for better management - save you money. We are also prepared to sell a variety of hive security systems -- we've finally got that together. If they can squeeze us an exhibit table, we will set up shop. Otherwise, track us down at the meetings. Scott's a body builder, brown - long hair -- hard to miss. Most of you know what I look like -- OLD! and getting older. Not much hair, look for the western boots on the old guy. Finally, we are looking for investor's who would be interested in partnering in research aimed at bringing some new technologies to beekeeping. We're convinced that we can build the Star Trek Medical TriCorder for scanning colonies to examine bee health. See you in Phoenix or Austin. Jerry J.J. Bromenshenk CEO Bee Alert Technology, Inc. 406-541-3160 (company phone/fax) 406-544-9007 (my cell) -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:45:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: honeydew MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some beekeepers have suggested honeydew as the problem in the current outbreak of disappearing disease. Maybe the list can help out here -- to the best of our knowledge, honeydew may be a poor nutrient, but isn't toxic. There's a complex set of issues, including microbes in the gut, that all interplay and may eventually kill bees. But, at least in CA, the bees collapse rather slowly, over the winter, when they are living on a high enough percentage of honeydew in their stored food. We've now documented the bee loss problem in 10 states, many of which DO NOT have a fall honeydew flow. Some areas of CA apparently do get a late season honeydew. Based on the reports that we have, the yards that we visited, the colony collapse is rapid - 2 to 3 weeks or less. And, we've got some clues that suggest that the current problem can be passed to other colonies, yards -- nearby colonies may show the problem, while bees far away also show it (when affected colonies are brought in and placed near local colonies - all of the colonies collapse). So, unless someone has convincing evidence that this is due to honeydew, we're still looking for the cause. Please don't decide NOT to fill out our survey, because you think you know the answer. You may be right -- and we'd be glad to find out, but you may be wrong, and lack of participation will no help us sort this out. Jerry -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:53:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: jeffrey Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants Comments: To: allen dick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In the past quarter century, however, the process changed from being a > shotgun approach, creating many random mutations, to a carefully targeted > process. Using new gene manipulation methods, technicians design and > generate 'mutations' by methodically inserting specific promising genes, > rather than by merely creating genetic chaos and picking the 'good' > results--if any--from the mess of random natural, chemical and radiation > assisted mutation. > > we can understand that there is no magic difference between 'GMO' and > non-GMO crops. What is certainly indisputable is that natural selection is quite different from the techniques employed in the genetic modification of plants. Thus far, Nature has not seen fit to insert strawberry genes into salmon, nor to develop corn varieties that are lethal to monarch butterflies. Also indisputable is that the driving force behind genetic modification is not providing more food for a hungry world or any of that sort of pr stuff--it's all about profit. After all, if feeding the hungry were the goal, why would Monsanto create terminator seeds? Why prohibit farmers from saving seed, which practice has been done since the beginnings of agriculture, and which has assured the security of seed biodiversity? If it were all about feeding the hungry, why is there presently such a strong focus on abandoning food production in favor of ethanol production (yes, lots of GM corn will be utilized in this endeavor)? So, now we are burning our food? What is most indisputable is that the extent of the complexity of the natural world cannot be understood by humans. When we do things like insert genes from one species into another species that is completely dissimilar to the first, we are in essence tugging on one little strand of the web of life. Haven't we learned yet that that tug ripples throughout the rest of the web? Yes, scientific developments of the past century have been astonishing. Yet simply because we possess the mental capacity to do something, does not in itself mean we should in fact do it. How often, unaware of the implications of our actions, do we humans create situations that are worse than they were when we set out to "fix" things. Thalidimide anyone? Jeffrey Hamelman Hartland, Vermont -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:54:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Adony_Melathopoulos?= Subject: Re: Testing for AFB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I hope no one got the impression that I advocated dropping all antibiotic treatments in one season. While I am very heartened and do not doubt Brian's success with "shake and bake" (shake bees on to new comb and burn infected comb) I wonder if it will work as well for everybody. I mentioned that there were some beekeepers in our study in which we could not find a single AFB spore across hundreds of honey samples and across a number of seasons. These beekeepers had also not seen a case of AFB for years. Their risk of a flare-up was clearly small even in the absence of treatments. On the other hand, some beekeepers in our study consistently had spores in their samples and were always coming across a low level of AFB-killed colonies in their deadouts. I do worry that if they went "cold turkey" to "shake and bake" (which is appropriately termed the “cold turkey shake and bake”) that: 1) AFB cases would immediately increase, 2) their staff would suddenly have increased demands on inspection, shaking and keeping track of cases... and many balls would be dropped and 3) AFB levels would increase quickly within a few years. After some finger-pointing and a raft of expensive packages to bring numbers back up, the beekeeper would vow to never give-up antibiotics again. This would be an unfortunate end. Intuitively I like Lloyd's approach of using an antibiotic-transition- period, in which comb is being renewed and diligent inspection used to weed out high risk equipment. It reminds me of the apocryphal saying of Dr. Shimanuki, “the best way to come off antibiotics is one apiary at a time”... this philospohy allows for staff to gear up to the challenge and does not put all your investment at risk immediately. This is "the warmish turkey shake and bake" and is somewhat easier to swallow (particularily with gravy). I have my own experience with shaking. A smart student in our lab, Robert Albright, mastermided a study looking at the costs and benefits of shaking. In the study infected colonies were shaken onto foundation during the dandilion-flow, simulating what a beekeeper could do if they found AFB-colonies after their spring inspections. The bees were shaken onto 9-frames of wax foundation (1) and we compared their honey production to 2) overwintered colonies and 3) April-hived pacakges. Although the shaken colonies did not produce as much honey as the other two groups on the first pull, they caught up and produced as much honey on the last three pulls. I can't remember the numbers exactly, but the shaken colonies made 200-ish lbs, the packaged colonies 250-ish and the wintered colonies 300-ish. We figured that if we had decided to turf the AFB colonies and bought a package to make up the loss it would have cost us ~$40. Shaking was more profitable. Adony -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:09:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Adony_Melathopoulos?= Subject: wintering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I want to know the southern limit where US beekeepers pack or indoor winter their colonies. By packing I not only mean using insulation, but also uninsulated black sleaves to cut wind and warm the colonies. I know that indoor wintering has been recorded as far south as Nebraska (apparently a modern revival (1970s) in indoor wintering in Manitoba, Canada can be traced to techniques developed up at Jim Kuehl's operation in Loop City, Nebraska). Please email at my work address if you pack or winter your colonies indoors and are NOT in Montana, N. Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, NY, VT or Maine. Provide: 1) a brief description of what you do for winter 2) how many colonies you run 3) if your method of wintering is common where you live 4) how many years you have been wintering melathopoulosa@agr.gc.ca Thank you in advance, Adony -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:09:21 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: more on bees shunning frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/01/2007 00:41:27 GMT Standard Time, Medhat.Nasr@GOV.AB.CA writes: If you visit Alberta in summer, you will find thousands of acres covered with yellow canola flowers. It looks like a yellow carpet. This is a monoculture of one crop grown on thousands of acres in one location. So outside the flowering period it might just as well be a desert with no flowering plants. No wonder there are few wild bees in those parts. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:05:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: Microwaving honey In-Reply-To: <003601c730da$ee9fead0$6501a8c0@DanJan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit re: using a pressure cooker instead of the microwave 1. I don't think that even that will kill AFB spores. Yesterday, Tim cited 125 C (260 F) for 10 minutes to kill bacterial spores generally and that is the temperature that is typically reached by a pressure cooker at 15 psi. But AFB spores are known to be more heat-resistant than the average. This article has more: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=169683 2. Even at only 125 C, you will still carmelize the honey - very bad for your bees. Heating it hot enough or long enough to actually kill the AFB will only make the carmelization worse. Mike Rossander __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 02:02:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Brian_Fredericksen?= Subject: Re: honeydew Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So how does one differentiate honeydew from nectar? -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 07:06:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: GMOs and Bees In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If you are interested in a background on GMOs and honey bees start with a series published in the American Bee Journal http://home.earthlink.net/~beeactor/papers_htm/ABJ/The%20World%20of%20GMOs.htm, accessible off the Apis Information Resource center at Squidoo.com http://www.squidoo.com/apis/. Malcolm T. Sanford Professor Emeritus, University of Florida http://beeactor.vze.com 352-336-9744 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:19:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe bossom Subject: pressure cooker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A pressure cooker is nothing less than a very small autoclave, the type = in general use in surgeries around the world. For fine sterilization dry = heat is sometimes used (delicate instruments) or in the past 40 years = gas sterilization methods (I.e. ethelene chloride) have become = practical..however pressure cookers as sterilizers are impractical = unless you are doing small things like fine instruments and have no = other recourse. I have had great success, as a younger man, squirrelling the the junk = dumpsters outside large hospitals...all sorts of stainless steel devices = inluding sterilizers large enough for an entire box and frames may be = found there. Good hunting. The best thing to do is the chat up a = surgery nurse and find out where and when they are re decorating = surgical areas, get a truck and several stronk people to move the = autoclave..they are heave. Remember the pressure must be high and the heat hot enough to finish off = spores to be of any use in this context. It is far easier to burn out = AFB and other spores -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:43:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: honeydew In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: > > Maybe the list can help out here -- to the best of our knowledge, honeydew > may be a poor nutrient, but isn't toxic. There's a complex set of issues, > including microbes in the gut, that all interplay and may eventually kill bees. > The Hive and the Honeybee has a couple of sections about honeydew, as well as references. I did a bit of searching about honeydew in the past because my bees suffered from it as an overwinter feed. I agree that honeydew is an unlikely cause of the problem, but it can be toxic to bees. It depends on the honeydew. There are lots of honeydews and but only a few are toxic. It mostly has to do with the minerals in the honeydew, which means the minerals collected by the insect and processed into honeydew and collected by the bees. There is a lot of good science on honeydew and honeydew honeys. One thing to remember is that the bees are not collecting simple sugars processed by plants, but have an intermediate insect processor with all their added enzymes. Honeydew is a very interesting and complex sugar source for bees. > > But, at least in CA, the bees collapse rather slowly, over the winter, when > they are living on a high enough percentage of honeydew in their stored food. > This was exactly the symptoms my bees "enjoyed" because of honeydew. My conjecture (since I do not remember if I read this in relation to honeydew) is they suffer because of the high water content of the honeydew and that it does granulate, but not completely. So you can have a transition phase where you have fermentation of the sugars and that is what harms the bees. This fermentation process is well known as a problem for overwintered bees and partially granulated honey. > Based on the reports that we have, the yards that we visited, the colony > collapse is rapid - 2 to 3 weeks or less. > Toxic honeydew is plant/insect specific, so you would have this problem all the time in certain areas and not universally. In my experience, honeydew is a gradual killer, not a quick one. So I agree with you that it is not honeydew, no matter how bad honeydew may be for overwintering. It is also true that it is probably part of the problem in California, since honeydew is a terrible overwintering honey. As an aside, it is a great flavored honey and prized in many areas where it is found. I harvest some every fall. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 10:13:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants In-Reply-To: <00aa01c730e4$08e09080$6501a8c0@DanJan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan&jan wrote: > > Some years, REGARDLESS OF GROWING AND WEATHER CONDITIONS, our > honeybees do not work goldenrod. It is not that there are other nectar > sources as they are not collecting anything and we have to feed them. There is goldenrod and there is goldenrod. If were were all botanists, we could differentiate between goldenrods and other plants that look similar and which we group as a single type. Tony Jadczak pointed that out to me, since I have large stands of goldenrod but not the "right" goldenrod. I get little honey from it but a lot from aster, when blooms slightly after the goldenrod. I still have no idea which one is the right one, since my bees are all around the asters but occasionally are on the goldenrod. It is a lot easier when we see different clovers, because they look different. Even there, however, there are variants in the white, red and other clovers. Some produce better then their kissin' cousins. Just do a search on variants of red clover. Some are great honey plants and others busts. It could also be, in your area, that goldenrod has never been a good source but it is something else that is the problem, especially if the summer flow was poor, as it was here in Maine. Then it is not the lack of fall nectar but you are starting from a deficit. It could also be the time of day we observe, since plants do regulate their nectar availability during the day. It could also be the amount of water in the ground. Or the life cycle of the goldenrod. Or insect damage. Or weather. I have found with beekeeping questions from afar, that there are so many variables that it is difficult to answer a general question concerning why something is wrong, which is why few "expert' beekeepers even bother to try. However, that has never stopped me as a "talented amateur" ( a euphemism for someone who does not know what they are talking about). Bill Truesdell (are you ready for the government mandate to shift your bees plasma tvs from analog to digital tuners? I did mine early.) Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:37:27 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: honeydew Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Maybe the list can help out here -- to the best of our knowledge, honeydew may be a poor nutrient, but isn't toxic. I can't comment to much on honeydew but, to my concern, my hives went into the winter with significant amounts of late fall honey in the deeps that began to crystalize. I've had an incredibly mild winter on Long Island (no real freeze as of today Jan. 6th!) and the bees have been taking flights. Hence, the crystalized honey has not been an issue. I've seen dandelions and forsythia blooming! Skunk cabage is coming up in the marshes. If the bees start brooding en masse and a cold winter sets in, colonies will be in trouble by March. They've already consumed disproportionate amounts of stores. On the other hand, I am saving on heating oil! >>We've now documented the bee loss problem in 10 states, many of which DO NOT have a fall honeydew flow. ... the colony collapse is rapid - 2 to 3 weeks or less. ... some clues that suggest that the current problem can be passed to other colonies, yards... It sounds like a virus. Bees on the verge of death are known to take a last flight away from the hive. It might be telling to locate some feral colonies in remote areas for a comparison. If the feral colonies are doing well, you can rule out honeydew or other nectar sources. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:42:13 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Goldenrod [bees shun frankenfood plants] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>If anyone can explain our goldenrod situation we would love to hear it We've taken out bees to goldenrod locations for the past 3-4 years. Goldenrod honey, it is said, does not crystalize easily. We've seen our late summer honey with a tendency to crystalize pointing to other nectar sources. Ample rains and soil conditions are said to affect goldenrod yield. It's best to have good, deep soils that retain moisture. Waldemar Long Island, NY -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 13:12:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Wasp_King?= Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I believe it is simply that organic fields have more weeds, therefore more flowers. MaKenzie from Maine has shown that wild bee diversity increases with plant species diversity (more weeds, more wild bees). I am sure Dr. Winston wont be happy how his paper was quoted. Media hype! as to GM Canola's effect on honey bees, here is one study by Zach Huang at Michigan State University. He has found no effects of GM Canola pollen on honey bees. http://cyberbee.net/huangpub/2004JEE.pdf -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:10:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: honeydew In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Fredericksen wrote: > So how does one differentiate honeydew from nectar? > > The middleman. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:33:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: Goldenrod [bees shun frankenfood plants] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We've taken out bees to goldenrod locations for the past 3-4 years. > Goldenrod honey, it is said, does not crystalize easily. We've seen > our late summer honey with a tendency to crystalize pointing to other > nectar sources. > Waldemar > Long Island, NY In my experience it seems Goldenrod honey does cystallize rapidly John Horton -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 16:36:22 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: honeydew MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/01/2007 16:42:03 GMT Standard Time, amesfarm@HOTMAIL.COM writes: So how does one differentiate honeydew from nectar? Honeydew comes from the back end of an aphid, the front end of which is sucking sap. Nectar is produced from the nectaries of flowers. Chris -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 16:31:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Adrian M. Wenner" Subject: Re: honeydew In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Jan 6, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Chris Slade wrote in response to a question: So how does one differentiate honeydew from nectar? "Honeydew comes from the back end of an aphid, the front end of which is sucking sap. Nectar is produced from the nectaries of flowers." Honeydew is also produced by homopterans other than aphids, including many species of scale insects. For example, in higher elevations in California's Central Valley, copious amounts of honeydew are sometimes produced in the fall months by scale insects on cedar trees. The ground and all lower vegetation can become coated with a glaze of honeydew by that exudate. Those who move colonies into that region before honeydew secretion begins can get a fair crop of "honey." Although some Europeans relish honeydew, it is not too good a feed for honey bees, consisting mostly of glucose. (A rather ancient ABC and XYZ book I have includes the statement, "Don't feed glucose to bees, glucose is death to bees.") Moving colonies into an area already glazed over by honeydew, though, usually results in no crop. The bees just don't seem to catch on that it is sugar by then. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm "Having one view prevail is harmful; it becomes a belief system, not science." Zaven Khachaturian — 2006 -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:26:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ralph Harrison Subject: CT Coast Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CT coast update: I am located on the coast of CT on Long Island Sound between New Haven and Bridgeport. I checked on my hives today and found several of them light on honey stores even thought I let them go into winter with heavy stores. We have had almost no winter along the coast with very mild temps. The bees have been using quite a bit more honey this year because of not being in a tight cluster and having many days above 50 degrees. Today the temp was in the mid 60's (around 15-17C) on one hive there was even bees bringing in pollen. I mixed a lot of 2/1 sugar syrup and put two gallon feeder pails on several light hives. Ralph Milford, CT -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 23:09:49 -0700 Reply-To: allen dick Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Organization: Deep Thought Subject: Re: bees shun frankenfood plants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What is certainly indisputable... This word has only been used a handful of times on BEE-L, over a decade or more of hand-to-hand combat On BEE, NOTHING is indisputable. -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 08:24:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: honey bees are "almost" endangered worldwide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit More misinformation from the southland (well, it's "almost" true) : > "They are almost endangered right now worldwide because of these mites, and beetles and lack of room and spraying of insects," she said. "If we lose [the honeybee] we lose 30 percent of the world's food." > Hartmann, the longtime West Palm Beach beekeeper, hopes to educate other South Floridians about the positive aspects of bees and beekeeping at this year's South Florida Fair, which runs Jan.12-28 in West Palm Beach. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/ -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:26:23 -0600 Reply-To: scot.mcpherson@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: The Mc Pherson Family Honey Farms Subject: Re: CT Coast Update In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I checked on my hives today and found several of them light on honey >>stores even thought I let them go into winter with heavy stores. In winters as mild as this one for many people, robbing can be a major problem... -- Scot McPherson The McPherson Family Honey Farms Davenport, Iowa USA "If the girls don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy" -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 11:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: honey bees are "almost" endangered worldwide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi I think this topic is important is because it is a beekeeper who is spreading an "uninformed" message. The honey bee is not an endangered species by any definition. The beekeeping industry in US and Europe is beset by a lot of serious problems, but to say the honey bee is in danger is to project our problems onto the bee. Even the argument that the world's food supply is threatened boils down to a problem for us, not the bee. Bear in mind that the honey bee genus consists of several species including apis mellifera and apis cerana. It is mellifera that is being wrecked by the varroa mite. As far a mellifera goes, they seem to be doing pretty well throughout the tropics and anywhere the African types are present. Finally, the honey bee will never make the endangered species list in this country because it isn't even a native. I expect the beekeeping industry will survive because the fewer hives there are, the higher the fees will go for pollination, and the higher the price will be for honey. Market pressures helped create new ideas like bring in bees from Australia or Russia, cross breed types to produce hybrid vigor, etc. Finally, it should be remembered that the honey bee is on a lot people's lists as an *invasive pest*, which drives out native bees, such as Meliponini. pb -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:10:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan&jan Subject: Re: Goldenrod [bees shun frankenfood plants] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>We've seen > our late summer honey with a tendency to crystallize pointing to other > sources< In our area we have several asters that start blooming 1-2 weeks before the goldenrods and continue 2-3 weeks after . The aster honey has a propensity to crystallize easily. I guess the goldenrod mystery still remains as we have all kinds of different goldenrods and their crosses. Some years we do get a good goldenrods flow. Dan Veilleux in the mountains of NC zone 6a -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:38:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: honeydew Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was really asking if you had say a jar of dark late season honey and a jar of honeydew side by side how would one know which is honey dew? Aside from seeing the honeydew being collected how would a beekeeper know he/she has some honeydew? On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 16:36:22 EST, Chris Slade wrote: > >In a message dated 06/01/2007 16:42:03 GMT Standard Time, >amesfarm@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > >So how does one differentiate honeydew from nectar? > > > >Honeydew comes from the back end of an aphid, the front end of which is >sucking sap. Nectar is produced from the nectaries of flowers. > >Chris > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---