From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:59:45 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.0 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, ADVANCE_FEE_3,AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F5949099 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFhrq8016524 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0705D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 172590 Lines: 4131 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:43:19 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: CCD forum at Apimondia 2007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) causing severe losses of bee = colonies in the USA, and in the UK and Europe there being loss of hives = which is commonly referred to as Marie Celeste hives, the Organising = Committee for Apimondia 2007 has decided to hold a forum on CCD at = Apimondia. =20 Apimondia 2007 in Melbourne, Australia is an excellent opportunity for = scientists from around the world to come together and compare notes and = ideas. It also gives beekeepers an opportunity to talk with one another = and the scientists to find out the latest on CCD. =20 So as to avail yourself of the opportunity of being part of this forum, = please register on our website www.apimondia2007.com if you have not = done so already. The earlybird rate has been extended to 15 June so = take this opportunity to come and learn. Trevor Weatherhead Organising Committee AUSTRALIA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:46:33 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Fewer swarms this year? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>About 22 in all and mostly btwn March 15 & end of April. Usually only about 5 or6. Wow, 22 is quite a number. >>Hate to hear all the bad situations from other areas and always wondering if it's gonna hit here too. What do you mean - AHB? Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 23:29:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Latest beekeeping news Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, I received another call from Australia and Australia had spoken with Canada. The report is the Canada beekeeper lost around 75% of their bees last fall. The bees left are not thriving and they are having trouble raising queens. The queens are dying in the cells a few days before hatching. The bees were in an area of corn production last fall. The Canada beekeeper has sent pollen samples off for testing. Bob ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 08:31:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Chris Slade wrote: >Colour variation usually does not show a significant >correlation with either of the two referential dimensions >[neither latitude nor time] >How about altitude? Color. I had an article about honey bee coloration in the American Bee Journal last June. Color in bees does not seem to correlate to anything. There are black, yellow, and striped bees in the tropics. If you study evolution you will see that the main thing is change. Variation is the engine of change. Some changes are beneficial and are retained and enhanced over time. Some changes are harmful and those traits or lineages drop out over time. However, some changes have *neutral* value. The variation in the shapes of tree leaves is an example of this. In the article they state: > The characters of wing venation, on the other hand, can be interpreted by neutral (nonadaptive) evolution, in which the magnitude of divergence is proportional to time of divergence. Wing veins in bee species are very similar but can be used to identify different species and even the so-called races. This is due to what is called genetic drift. Over time the pattern just changes and can be used to calculate how long ago the type were separated. Color may be another neutral trait. I simply can't see ho wit would have much adaptive value. The size of bees, on the other hand, seems to correlate to winter temperature. One can easily see how a slightly bigger bee might evolve due to better heat retention in winter. -- Peter L. Borst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:13:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: RE: [BEE-L] Fewer swarms this year? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by wfy1@VERIZON.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quoted material. Hi Bob,and All, I have a rather strange question. I have a few hives behind my shop where I can look out at them to see what they are up to.Yesterday,and this morning I didn`t look out at them,but wish that I had. This afternoon I rode out on my 4 wheeler to have a close look,and found a lot of pieces of bees on top of both hives. The pieces were the back end of the bees with no head.After looking a little closer I found a pile of bird crap on top of the feeders that I have.Apparently there is some type of bird that will catch the bees,bight the front halve of the bee off and eat it,and leave the back half of the bee lying on the hive.I remember seeing a little of that a few years ago,but had forgotten about it. Needles to say I am not very happy about this,and tomorrow I will sit in my back window,and shoot the bird if it returns. I really don`t know what bird would do this.Has anyone else noticed this happening to any of their bees,and identified the breed of bird? Wayne Young ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:26:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Fewer swarms this year? In-Reply-To: <206321.13525.qm@web83101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit South of you in Jackson, MO, our swarm calls have been few and far between as well. I blame the freeze we had around Easter. It knocked out the nectar flow. Without the nectar coming in, hive congestion was reduced, and without any blooms to supply nectar and pollen, I sense the queen reduced her laying. The observation hive at the Conservation Department had worker bees pulling out larvae, presumable because they had no feed. Things are beginning to pick up. I had two calls yesterday and I had two pheromone-baited traps with swarms in them. But what is really weird is the two swarms I've caught, and the two my buddies have caught have all been on the ground. Big piles of bees 2 feet in diameter on the ground. It sure makes taking them home easier, but I wonder what's up with this phenomena? Until this spring, I never had a swarm on the ground. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:40:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Swarms on Ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keep an eye on those swarms, 1) AHB may go to ground, but I'd guess a more likely explanation may be that, 2) Mite infested colonies sometimes march out en mass, clump on ground (usually die shortly thereafter). I've seen this on several occasions. I have seen pollution stressed bees do this, but usually in small clumps with the queen, out in front of the hive. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 12:12:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] Fewer swarms this year? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by emakovec@SBCGLOBAL.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quoted material. I had two such swarms (on the ground) last year. In both cases, the homeowners said they'd been there at least a week and had started out in a tree. In one case, I found the queen and she looked perfectly healthy -- when I put a nuc box down next to it the majority marched right in. In the other case, the lady's husband doused them with gasoline before I got there. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:15:13 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Latest beekeeping news Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...Canada... The queens are dying in the cells a few days before hatching. The bees were in an area of corn production last fall. Is there any way of knowing if this corn was GMO type? Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Swarms on Ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jerry & All, Jerry said: 2) Mite infested colonies sometimes march out en mass, clump on ground (usually die shortly thereafter). I've seen this on several occasions. I have seen the same thing also. In fact if on the ground I usually pick up ( to help land owner) but do not bring into my yards. If not AHB as Jerry suggested in my opinion the swarm has a problem. One such swarm (not from my bee yards ) was simply laying on the ground in fresh cut grass. I could see varroa on the bees. Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:51:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Latest beekeeping news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Is there any way of knowing if this corn was GMO type? I asked but the Australian beekeeper did not know. The Canada beekeeper raises queens at this time of year in Canada but went to Australia over their winter (Australia summer) to raise queens. The Australia beekeeper thinks the pollen the Canada beekeeper collected (about the same time has the fall hives were crashing) might be the source of the problems as they are feeding pollen patties of pollen they trapped themselves. off topic: ( so others will not think I am speaking of the above beekeepers) Many beekeepers say: I had my bees next to corn ( example) and had no problems! Which is true but there are at least three chemical seed treatments of which Imadicloprid is only ONE. If systemic chemicals are causing pollen problems I suspect it will be traced to a single chemical but my opinion is not based on research but the fact only beekeepers in certain areas of say *corn* are having problems when other beekeepers in other areas of corn are seeing problems. Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:55:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: Latest beekeeping news In-Reply-To: <001d01c79c91$84c14c80$1ebc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bob Mentioned: The Australia beekeeper thinks the pollen the Canada beekeeper collected (about the same time has the fall hives were crashing) might be the source of the problems as they are feeding pollen patties of pollen they trapped themselves. Bob: It is an interesting post. Yes, we have high winter mortality, but they don't show the same symptoms as the described CCD hives in the USA.. We can count all the bees in dead hives and no brood, For more information about colony kill in Canada, Please read the post in CAPA website . We are still investigating causes of kill. We have a very cold spring this year which is adding to the problem of colonies' population build up. Medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:38:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: removing bumble bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remove honey bees from all kinds of buildings and relocate them with success. I continue to get the occasional request to remove bumble bees. I just had another today - bumble bees in the wall. I have always declined, but would be interested in any resources that would help in adding bumble bees to my repertoire. It seems there are an increasing number of people who want to preserve the bumble bees as well as the honey bees. They want a promise that the bumble bees will be relocated to an appropriate habitat. Any books? Websites? Any thoughts? Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:10:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: honey bee taxonomy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 22/05/2007 02:53:42 GMT Standard Time, CSlade777@AOL.COM writes: Take a look at Friedrich Ruttner's book Breeding Techniques and Selection for Breeding of the Honeybee, the English translation of which is ISBN 0-905369-07-6. Chris That only covers European subspecies, unfortunately. Regards, Robert Brenchley, Birmingham UK ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:03:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 22/05/2007 13:39:18 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: Color may be another neutral trait. I simply can't see ho wit would have much adaptive value. I wondered whether a dark bee would be given an edge by being able to absorb a bit more radiated heat on cold days. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:13:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Erin Martin Subject: Re: FW: RE: [BEE-L] Fewer swarms this year? In-Reply-To: <9D95C2906FCCE04F836ECA17C4CE092113C6C519@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > have.Apparently there is some type of bird that will > catch the > bees,bight the front halve of the bee off and eat > it,and leave the > back half of the bee lying on the hive. No bird comes to mind right away. The Merops apiaster/bee eater usually kills bees before swallowing them whole by rubbing live bees against hard surfaces until they sting themselves to death. It seems logical that they would someitmes just eat part of the bee, but as they tend to be very skittish around people, I don't know how much of this has been observed. Erin ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 21:36:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: removing bumble bees In-Reply-To: <008201c79cb1$21f81780$445b70d1@Tom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry Krengel wrote: > Any books? Websites? Any thoughts? As luck would have it, the book "Befriending Bumble Bees: A practical guide to raising local bumble bees" has just been released. I don't know if it covers removals, but it should cover what to do with them once you've got them. Sounds good, I'm going to get a copy. I'm pollinating a local farmer's tomato greenhouse this year with a box of Bumble bees I bought from Koppert International. George- ---------------------- George Fergusson Whitefield Maine ======================================================================= Befriending Bumble Bees: A practical guide to raising local bumble bees by Evans, E.; Burns, I.; Spivak, M. Description: In "Befriending BumbleBees", you will learn how to raise your own colonies of bumble bees. This step by step guide provides you with all the information you will need to find, capture, house, and feed the next generation of bumble bees. Bumble bees are formidable pollinators, pollinating crops such as tomatoes, cranberries, blueberries, and squash, in addition to native wildflowers. Enjoy the benefits these bees can provide to your gardens and crops while helping to support native ecosystems by encouraging populations of these amazing bees. 76 pp. Full color. For beekeepers, gardeners, nature lovers, and anyone interested in pollinators. To purchase, please visit this link: http://shop.extension.umn.edu/PublicationDetail.aspx?ID=1902 Soon there will be also be more information at http://befriendingbumblebees.com/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 00:31:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: FW: RE: [BEE-L] Fewer swarms this year? In-Reply-To: <464245.6011.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hornets have the audacity to hang around apiaries (waiting on leaves), then swoop down and grab an unfortunate bee. They then fly back to the perch of choice, nip of the abdomen and munch the rest. Seen this on many occasions in France. Killing birds feeding on bees most probably will result in illegal action - Birds species I know that do this (eat bees, as well as wasps etc.) are rare, protected and a joy to watch. Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:19:40 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris wrote: > I wondered whether a dark bee would be given an edge by being able to > absorb > a bit more radiated heat on cold days. This works two ways - dark colours radiate heat better as well as absorbing it, so they would tend to lose heat faster if there was no sun. Cerana has two colour morphs - light plains, dark hills - but I am not sure what we cabn deduce from that. Peter Edwards (wondering why we paint our radiators white!) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:31:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: removing bumble bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry Krengel asked about moving bumble bees. I have moved bumbles on a number of occasions. If they are in something that can be picked up, then no problem, otherwise I put the nest in a plastic washing-up bowl during the day and then come back at night to move it when all the bees are inside. (Wrap it in a loose-weave cloth). Old beekeeping equipment is useful for housing them. I have a colony in the garden that I brought home a week ago. It is in an old super that was beyond repair, with similar condition floors above and below it to keep them dry. There are good books available from IBRA: http://www.ibra.org.uk/shop/erol.html#1X0 and Northern Bee Books: http://www.beedata.com/nbb/index.html Sladen's 'The Humble Bee' is a classic. Peter Edwards ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:27:12 +0100 Reply-To: max.watkins@vita-europe.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Max Watkins Organization: Vita (Europe) Ltd Subject: Re: CCD forum at Apimondia 2007 In-Reply-To: <00b201c79c44$df112360$ac91453d@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor, Just to clarify, in recent years there have been a small number of "Marie Celeste" cases here in the UK (hives completely deserted) but there is currently no indication of "CCD" in the UK; there have been some unexplained high bee depopulations in some other European countries over the past few years but these have not been identified as Colony Collapse Disorder. While there could be common factors involved there is not enough information on the status or background to many of these losses to attribute all to one phenomenon. That may change as more evidence is gathered but I think it's jumping the gun a bit to label all hive deaths with one name or cause. Apimondia in Melbourne will however, be a great place to discuss. All the best, Max Dr Max Watkins Director Vita (Europe) Limited 21/23 Wote Street Basingstoke Hampshire RG21 7NE UK Tel.: +44 (0)1256 473 177 Fax: +44 (0)1256 473 179 Mobile: +44 (0) 7767 815 370 e-mail: max.watkins@vita-europe.com web: http://www.vita-europe.com Skype: maxwatkins ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:55:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Wayne Young Subject: bee eating birds MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi Erin,Peter,and all, Thank you for trying to figure out what is eating my bees.Yesterday I spent a little time watching my hives to catch a view of what might be doing it.In a short time I spotted my problem bird.The bird is almost completely red as a cardinal,but does not have a tuft on top it`s head. I do have some cardinals eating from my feeders daily so I know what they look like.This bird was almost completely red with a little sort of blackish area about where his wing would be when folded.I looked at birds in Google,and there are numerous bee,and fly eating birds.I cannot be sure of which it is in the pictures.Some of the birds were so similar in looks. This bird would sit in my apple tree while eating one bee,then fly down across the vent holes in a hive,and pick up another bee,than would land in another small tree,eat that bee,then repeat the same thing while heading back to the apple tree again. I did watch this for probably 15 minutes,but didn`t want to kill such a pretty bird.I am going to try using a fake owl.If that doesn`t do the trick then the bird will probably disappear for good. I do shoot undesirable birds with my pellet gun which is quiet,so it would be easy to shoot him,but he is so pretty that I really don`t want to do it, Wayne ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 13:55:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: bee eating birds In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20070523122737.04495020@incoming.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wayne Young wrote: > Hi Erin,Peter,and all, > > Thank you for trying to figure out what is eating my bees.Yesterday I > spent a little time watching my hives to catch a view of what might be > doing it.In a short time I spotted my problem bird.The bird is almost > completely red as a cardinal,but does not have a tuft on top it`s head. Scarlet tanager? There is no way that a bird this size can do an appreciable amount of damage to a hive. Killing it will change little, might make you feel like you have done something, but in the end, it won't matter to the bees. Keith ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 11:15:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David Kraus Subject: Re: bee eating birds In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20070523122737.04495020@incoming.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am going to try using a fake owl.If > that doesn`t do the trick > then the bird will probably disappear for good. > Tie a plastic shopping bag on a post or branch where it can flap and rustle in the wind, you might have to move it every few days. CD's work well also. ____________________________________________________________________________________ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 11:37:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dan O'Callaghan Subject: Re: bee eating birds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Sounds like a Summer Tanager. http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Summer_Tanager_dtl.html ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 08:21:37 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell In-Reply-To: <003501c79d0a$bad1e4a0$5cb06a58@office> > Cerana has two colour morphs - light plains, dark hills - but I am not sure > what we cabn deduce from that. Maybe it's caouflage. Light colours blend against a light sky or distant horizon, but show up against a dark, perhaps forest, canopy and vice versa for dark colours. Cheers, Peter Bray _________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., Pennington St, PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 http://www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:40:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Wayne Young Subject: bee eating bird MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi All, Thank you for helping me determine just what bird I have been observing eating my bees.As I said earlier he is so pretty that I don`t want to harm him. He is either the scarlet Tanager,or the summer Tanager.I think probably the summer Tanager.The dark on the sides of him are really not dark black,probably a lighter color more grey ----------brown. I guess he is a little further North than usual,being up in Maine,on an island. I will try to drive him off rather than harm him.In the area that I live in people sometimes place fake owl to drive gulls,and other birds off. While reading about this bird it was described as a bee,and wasp specialist. The bird will live.I will somehow drive him away.If I hadn`t felt sorry about shooting him,I would have done that yesterday. Wayne Young ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:51:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Fewer swarms this year? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Three weeks into this 2007 swarm season, I don’t see any scarcity of ferals or swarm calls in my area. I have been getting about the same number of calls as last season. Bee trees and most removals are being put on hold till later in the season, because of swarm chasing and trap checking. Checked the woodland traps, one swarm so far and scouts were noticed investigating several other traps. As far as removals go, I have a policy of removing feral colonies ONLY if the bees are in danger of being destroyed, OR they pose a hazarded to health or safety. As part of my Feral Bee Project, last season I started up a ‘Feral Bee Stewardship Program’ where homeowners (if safety criteria are met) can become Stewards and Guardians of their own feral colony of bees. And have a beekeeper On Call to provide assistance should questions or problems arise anytime in the future. Instead of killing or removing the colony, this provides an option that is too often neglected, of letting the colony live out its existance where it was found. Last season, I have had a few homeowners decide to participate and keep their feral colonies after I talked with them about the importance of feral honeybees. And already this year, I have had swarm calls to 2 of these locations. It appears from the number of prime swarms that settled near a participating local church on a single day. There is one colony that we know exists, and a minimum 2 other colonies of bees either in the church structure, or very close proximity. Best Wishes, Joe ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:46:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 23/05/2007 11:26:54 GMT Standard Time, beekeepers@STRATFORD-UPON-AVON.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: dark colours radiate heat better as well as absorbing it, so they would tend to lose heat faster if there was no sun. However Amm has long overhairs which would tend to trap an envelope of warm air more effectively than other strains. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:21:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell In-Reply-To: <46554B11.10018.53B3324@Peter.airborne.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit but I am not sure what we cabn deduce from that. Reply: Yellower to black transition by latitude and altitude it would seem here; also relates to so-called various african and caucasian, mediterrainian phase ins and outs IMPOV. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:46:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bman140 Subject: Re: Fewer swarms this year? In-Reply-To: <20070522.044704.26096.51891@webmail08.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bad situations? No, not AHB, I was referring to the draught and pollen shortage and ccd. My bees have been bringing in an abundance of pollen. Guess I'm just in a fortunate area at the moment. Ed --------------------------------- You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 02:41:17 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?QXJpIFNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with Dee, bees tend to darker in north and also in places higher up. I have been working with bees in Somalia. There the bees are darker the more you go up the mountain. But there is exceptions. In Madagasgar all the bees from coast to mountain are black. They are also very calm bees. Maybe this is because they have very few if any natural mammal enemies in that island, other than humans which are quite recent problem for them. Ari Seppälä Finland ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 08:28:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris wrote: > However Amm has long overhairs which would tend to trap an envelope of > warm air Would they also reduce the amount of solar radiation reaching the body of the bee? Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 08:29:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dee wrote: > Yellower to black transition by latitude and altitude it > would seem here; No - just altitude in the case of cerana. Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 05:02:48 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought I would update the list about my efforts to find out = information about possible residues of imidacloprid in corn syrup. This was the reply I finally received from the Pest Management Regulatory Agency (Canada): "PMRA staff has reviewed the contents of your e-mail and wishes to = inform you that it does not have any testing requirements for residue limits of imidacloprid in corn syrup. We suggest that you contact the Canadian = Food Inspection Agency as it is responsible for the safety of food in = Canada." Since the PMRA has set the maximum residue limit of imidacloprid in=20 corn at 80 ppb, I would suppose the CFIA would allow that limit in corn syrup. But I have not contacted them yet. I don't think that the CFIA considers that BEE food is in their mandate actually. Or then again maybe they do, I believe that they might have investigated melamine in pet food. And Bertha the bee is definitely a pet. She is the bee that keeps flying out of my clothes in gas stations, stores banks, etc. I always ask them to look after her. This might be cruelty (to the people) since in many cases she might be minus her stinger. I also phoned Bayer Crop Science. Apparently after searching through information and studies they had done, their information person was=20 unable to find out any studies they had done on corn syrup. I then phoned Mann Lake Bee Supply (since they have a nice picture of a corn syrup tanker on their ad). The person I was referred to = assured me that imidacloprid (and GMO, he said ????) does not bind to the carbohydrate portion of the corn. He said it was bound to the protein (as was the GMO stuff; he seemed quite concerned about this). He said that they tested, but did not offer any results. However perhaps they do have results, and I urge any beekeeper who gets syrup from them to do further inquiry and post any specific test results. I also phoned the company that I get my HFCS 55 from (CASCO). I got the best service (naturally) from the company that receives my cheques. However, the technical officer from the plant in Ontario = said that what he found out is that a sample (s?) is taken twice a year = (spring and fall) and sent to a lab in the US for pesticide residue analysis. = But on looking up the results he found that imidacloprid is NOT on the list for analysis. The ones which were looked for were all organophosphates. He did promise to rectify this, but thought it would be too late for the spring sample (s?) which has already been sent in. As far as looking at a sample of the corn before and after processing, he said this might not be very exact, as the plant does not process in batches; it is a continuous flow operation. =20 He also gave me a bit of a run down on the process involved, which does ion exchange at two points. So, perhaps it is unlikely that any imidacloprid goes through, but a test result would be nice. They do test for other insecticides. So I have failed so far to get a test result from anyone. I would ask Jerry Bromenshenk or anyone else studying CCD if they have information or a test result on corn syrup (since neonicotinoids are apparently a suspect in the investigation). I would also like to comment on Jim Fischers reply (a couple of=20 weeks ago now) to this thread in which he said: "And I've seen an Imidacloprid kill. The bees that get a "low dose" get "Parkinson's Disease". They shake. Its obvious. So far, no one has ever reported this sort of symptom in any CCD hives, so until someone shows me a "bell curve" of pesticide poisoning, where some hives or bees get a non-fatal, non-leave-the-hive dose, but still show signs of classic Imidacloprid poisoning as they do in known cases of Imidacloprid kills, I don't think we have any sort of=20 probable cause for even a search warrant on Bayer's offices." The bees getting the tremors are getting almost the lethal dose. The "Alzheimers Disease" symptoms occur at much lower dose than the lethal dose (but would lead to hive depopulation). The studies from France on effects at different doses are in the extensive=20 bibliography that David Hackenburg sent in the letter to his growers, which I found on the Bee Culture website at the same url where I found your article, Jim. I have only seen a hive with tremoring bees a few times here (probably from gathering water in potato drills) but I have seen plenty of depopulation. However, I don't want a search warrant on Bayer. I don't even want to suggest that imidacloprid in corn syrup is the cause of CCD. But I don't think that it is very unreasonable to ask for someone to do some testing of corn syrup to see if there is any present when we know that it is present in the raw material. Regards Stan ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:46:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Black Bees Out of Africa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There are plenty of examples of black bees living in extremely hot areas. According to Eva Crane: The honeybees in Madagascar, off the east coast of Southern Africa, are considered to be indigenous; they are uniformly black. A. m. intermissa is native to most of the coast of Africa from the Libyan desert to the Atlantic coast. It is a black bee which is easily alerted to sting. It seems to be the only race that can live in the climatic extremes of this region. The bees are unsuited to temperate regions and those imported to Europe do not survive. South of the Pyrenees is the Iberian bee, from which Apis mellifera mellifera may be derived. * This last statement points to the possibility that all the black bees of Europe have ancestry in Africa, where the black color may have originated. The isolated bees of Madagascar and the mountains of Tanazania and Kenya could be remnants of an original black race, which was supplanted by scutellata and lines related to it (adansonii, lamarckii, litorea, and jemenitica). According to Ruttner, black Apis mellifera monticola has characteristics of both the African and the Mellifera branch, further supporting the idea that they could be a very ancient black bee. -- Peter L. Borst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 06:34:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Andrew Dewey Subject: Combining hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A question for you pollinators: what is the general procedure you follow when you have to combine hives to get the brood frame count up for almonds? How do the bees react? Any negative consequences? Thanks, Andrew Dewey andrew@beeberrywoods.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 08:35:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell In-Reply-To: <010f01c79dd5$3fe251a0$7ecf6a58@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No - just altitude in the case of cerana. Reply: Actually yes, altitude is relative to latitiude. You just have to go further for latitude to see the differences break out which many cannot physically do transportation wise. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 08:36:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Combining hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A question for you pollinators: what is the general procedure you follow when you have to combine hives to get the brood frame count up for almonds? How do the bees react? Any negative consequences? I combine in late fall through winter (mild in Calif), clear into bloom in Feb. I just join boxes, or occassionally frames of bees and brood. No special technique or precautions. Everyone just goes together fine. fighting is extremely rare. Often two queens will continue to lay side by side for months! But two weak colonies combined will not make even one moderate colony. Be careful not to combine sick or mite-infested colonies with healthy colonies. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:41:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Combining hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Andrew & All, You can send me privately or post on the list your area and plans for sending bees to almonds and I could advise. > question for you pollinators: what is the general procedure you follow when you have to combine hives to get the brood frame count up for almonds? The idea is not to have to combine. As I wrote in several articles the cost of taking two queenright hives to make one for almonds is not the best method. Then you are a hive short which needs replaced after almonds. Almond pollination plans start for out of state beekeepers right after the summer flow. After the fall flow can be too late unless planning on moving bees into the South or California. Send ONLY your best hives for pollination . If in California and you have problems with grading then you have a choice to make. 1. combine 2. not combine We have done both. >How do the bees react? May the best queen survive! Putting the best queen up is the usual method. However we have simply combined with no concern to which queen remains. > Any negative consequences? Not with the bees but the beekeeper has paid trucking to California & back ( and possibly loading and unloading fees) for a hive which will bring no pollination fee. Then he/she has to replace the hive when the empty hive returns. Combining is not cost effective but sometimes beekeepers decide to combine. Each scenario is different. Bees do come normally out of almonds needing split so repopulating those hives might not be a big deal. Each beekeeper situation is different. Today most out of state commercial beekeepers know the rules in California ( some say because of my articles). Was not always that way! My purpose ( and only purpose) in doing the most controversal article I ever did on California almond pollination was to explain pitfalls. In an attempt to keep even one commercial beekeeper from having the problems the over twenty I interveiwed for the article did. I might add that only two of the 20 still send bees into California almonds. If the other 18 or so had understood the grading etc. then perhaps they would still be interested in sending bees to California. To this day I do not believe California beekeepers and brokers *for the most part* really understood the loss incured by those beekeepers. A broker in one case called a Southern commercial Russian beekeeper. "Can you send me a load of bees ?" " Sure if I can get a semi" Was the reply! When the bees arrived the broker called the beekeeper and said " these bees are only on three frames of bees and are not strong enough to pollinate!" The beekeeper said "You never asked how strong they were" Three frames is what the Russian bees are in dead of winter" The load was returned the loss cost the beekeeper around $20,000. Most figure a 10% loss of queens in a almond turn around. So the Russian beekeeper most likely had a minimum of 45 queen less hives. Another beekeeper sent two loads and never got paid from his broker/beekeeper. Another Florida beekeeper had a load turned at the border for a single dead small hive beetle. I could go on and on. California has been a lifesavor to many beekeeping outfits. Worth doing for many but think things through and cover all bases. Get a pollination contract. Send only your best hives which you know will grade. Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:52:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Eric_Brown?= Subject: screened bottom boards and capping honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm starting to wonder what effect my screened bottom boards are having on how long it takes the bees to cap my honey. The thought has been in the back of my mind for a while. What are y'all's thoughts on the subject or, better yet, what have your experiments shown? My suspicion is that although screened bottoms provide much more ventilation, they make it harder for the bees to *regulate* the airflow through the hive. In any case, as invaluable as my screened bottoms have been, since I went to all screened bottoms I've had dramatically worse trouble with slow capping times and moisture. This year makes 5 consecutive years of unusual trouble. Eric ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:38:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: MARIE ASHTON Subject: Small Beekeeper Med Program MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would anyone want to comment on this Med Program? BEE MED PROGRAM =20 1.. SYRUP & ESSENTIAL OILS ---VERY EARLY SPRING AND WHEN THERE ARE FEW = BLOOMS (LATE FALL.) MIXTURE --- 10 drops of Wintergreen and 15 drops of Spearmint essential = in 2 Cups of Sugar placed in a quart jar and then filled with hot water. = Mix well and feed to bees in Boardman feeder. About 2 quarts per hive = per season. =20 2.. COTTON CORDS/STRIPS - MID SUMMER THRU EARLY FALL. METHOD (when not feeding syrup) --- 1 pint (16 oz.) of Food Grade = Mineral Oil mixed with 1/2 pound of Beeswax and 1 cup of Honey (8oz.). = Heat mineral oil to a low boil in a metal or ceramic container. Add = Beeswax and stir until it melts. Remove from heat and add the honey. = ALSO add one teaspoon of Spearmint essential oil at this time. Place = cords in the mixture while it is still warm and liquid, stir to get the = cords saturated. Remove and place on wax paper. Use two cords per hive = placed on the top bars of the top super or brood box. Change out every 3 = weeks to one month during this period. You can wash the mites off the = cords, dry them and reuse or just keep a quantity of presoaked cords = available in a sealed plastic bag. These cords can be used during honey = flow as they will not harm honey as everything is food grade. Note: The = ingredients will saturate about 35-40 cords. =20 3.. GREASE PATTIES --- USE IN LATE FALL AND LEAVE ON UNTIL =20 EARLY SPRING. MIXTURE --- 2 Cups of sugar, 1 cup of shorting (can) and 11cc = (3/8ths oz.)of =20 Wintergreen. Add the sugar and essential first and then mix in = shorting. Mix =20 thoroughly with wood spoon. The mixture is then made into 4 oz. = patties =20 (about like a 3.5" hamburger patty) or =BD Cup of the mixture per = patty. Place =20 on top of bottom brood box on the middle frame bar (if there are = two brood =20 boxes) one patty per hive. NOTE: IF YOU HAVE SMALL HIVE BEETLES =20 (SHB) DO NOT USE THESE PATTIES UNTIL YOU HAVE THE SHB's=20 UNDER CONTROL. =20 MATERIALS NEEDED =20 1 PINT OF FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL SPEARMINT ESSENTIAL OIL WINTERGREEN ESSENTIAL OIL SHORTING (Like Crisco) HONEY=20 BEESWAX COTTON CORDS (5/8THS INCH -LARGE CORDS) (PURE COTTON ONLY) SUGAR BOARDMAN FEEDER Regards, Richard Ashton Oak Creek Orchard www.oakcreekorchard.com bwoodtx@verizon.net ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:43:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rowan C Subject: RFID tracking of commercial hives. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, I am looking into the differences between organic and mainstream commercial beekeeping, from under 100 hives and up to large very large operations. There is a post on the list from some years ago about the frequency of RFID tagging of hives to prevent theft and enable tracking and management. I am wondering whether RFID tagging of hives is standard procedure for commercial beekeepers, or rather common or uncommon now. This is the case with cattle in many countries, and USDA has been expanding its cattle efforts. Possibly if it is not done by the beekeeper, is it done by the trucking company or even NAIS now for most deliveries when loading and unloading; alternatively are the hives transported by a large courier that tends to track with RFID in commercial beekeeping? I would be most grateful if anyone could fill me in. Thank you, Rowan C. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 19:21:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Small Beekeeper Med Program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Richard & All, These are old methods which have been in use by hobby beekeepers for years. I see nothing which would harm bees or contaminate wax. I also see nothing which would save a hive at varroa threshold in August. If you plan to use these methods (or any of these) I would check varroa load before and after treatment. The problem with such mild methods is taking for granted your control is working. Even using apigard, api life var or miteaway two you need to make sure you got control. Varroa control was easy when Apistan was first introduced but those days are gone for many areas of the country. Many beekeepers are planning to use the new Hivastan. I am not simply because we do not know the long term problems an untested chemical might have on our honeybees and all my hives are on comb which have never had a chemical strip used. Past chemical use history: Drone problems with Apistan and queen problems with Checkmite. Comb contamination with both. My choice would be mite away 2, apigard or apilife var. Also if these are used too late in the season in the north (OCT.) they give poor results. You need to monitor varroa loads with these also. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 21:21:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: RFID tracking of commercial hives. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We can provide a variety of RFID tagging, tracking options for beehives and pallets. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 20:31:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot McPherson Organization: McPherson Family Farms Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell In-Reply-To: <20070524153548.58064.qmail@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe bee size and coloration has much to do with winter tempuratures and seasonal length. If you go to higher latitudes, you have longer colder winters. If you increase altitude, the same is also true. Where you find similar situations, you find similar bees. I know there are races of bees which seem to break this rule, but different races aren't part of the equation. This is what is misunderstood. Its not that black bees come from the north and yellow from the south, however that is true, but not quite because of race. It is more of an adaption and of course genetic dominance of an adaption. If you find Italian bees in florida, they will be brighter than Italian bees in iowa. I know I have kept Italians in both areas. I had 48 colonies in florida, and I watched them over several years become more uniform and match each other in appearance as the queens got replaced naturally over the years by supercedure, swarming or divides and splits. No queens were introduced after the initial package purchase. The bees became more uniform over time, and they became very distinct so that I could recognize them as mine or not. Very distinct stripping, however they were light in color, like white pine in color, and just a shade darker. Here in iowa I purchased 500 colonies from two sources, one source of which I wanted the genetics from, and the other for the cannon fodder to have bees in woodenware. I worked all last year to requeen from my desired stock and raised queens aggressively. This spring, I have been splitting and dividing my strong stocks as soon as they were ready. The bees I have now don't look like the bees I bought from a mishmash of sources, the one source I know gets queens from California, while the local source breeds his own bees. After two years of aggressive queen rearing to knock down the California genes and push up the local genes, my bees are uniform...They are Italians, and you would call them Italians if you just looked at them, but they are not the same color. They are significantly darker, like the color of stained leather or stained wood. Now you can say...Ok sure, one pocket of bees in florida vs. one pocket of bees in iowa. And you would be right, except I am one of many people who share this or similar experience. You can read eva crane all you want, or you can travel and check the bees out yourself...So long as the bees have not be recently introduced and have had a few years to multiple and supercede a few times, you go north and find darker bees, and go south and find yellower bees...consistently. Its not about where the races come from, it's the difference between bees of the SAME race in different latitudes and altitudes that demonstrate the difference. Just because monticola is black, doesn't not invalidate anything. You are talking about a distinct race here and there, what dee and I are talking about are trends of a species. Gas prices are going, just because one refinery sells cheaper than the others doesn't change the fact that gas IS getting more expensive. (no its not really true, just an analogy) Scot McPherson McPherson Family Farms Davenport, IA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 22:41:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: A.m.m &small cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 24 May 2007 20:31:52 -0500, Scot McPherson >I know there are races of bees which seem to break this rule, but different >races aren't part of the equation. This is what is misunderstood. Its not >that black bees come from the north and yellow from the south, however that >is true, but not quite because of race. It is more of an adaption and of >course genetic dominance of an adaption. Can't generalize on color. There are too many exceptions. There are numerous examples of black bees in the tropics. In the dwarf honey bee, the yellow type ranges from the Persian Gulf and India to China but a completely black type predominates farther south in Indonesia, near the equator. The giant honey bee exists only in the tropics but has both a yellow striped and a completely black form. In Apis mellifera, there are black and yellow forms of monticola in the mountainous regions of tropical Africa. Hepburn states: "three varieties of bees occur in Gabon, Congo, and Zaire [all on the equator] are are distinguished by their yellow, black, or grey colouration. For Zaire alone, blackish bees have been noted in the western part; elsewhere the bees are yellowish." However, according to Hepburn, coloration is less than 40% heritable. It is also affected by the brood temperature, hence seasonal and geographical variations. Queens raised at slightly lower temperatures will have darker pigmentation. But regarding adaptation, just what sort of adaptation are you contemplating? There simply is no proof that color in honey bees has any adaptive value. Just a lot of supposition, no proof. Being black or yellow has never been shown to provide a survival advantage. The only plausible advantage I can guess at would be camouflage. Dark bees might do better in dense forests and yellow bees might have an advantage in the savannas. But nobody has ever looked into it that I can find. The whole race thing is moot, especially in the USA. We simply do not have honey bee races here. Sure, there are yellow bees and black bees, etc. but these are merely coloration differences enhanced by selection by bee breeders. I worked for a large queen producer and the primary characteristic they looked for was Golden. The bees were shipped far into Canada. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:36:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?Grant_F.C._Gillard?=" Subject: Semi overturned--now what? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A semi load of approximately 300 hives on pallets overturned on I-55 in Southeast Missouri, a first for our local emergency responders. Several beekeepers came to assist. The driver didn't survive and was pulled from the wreckage. As we left at nightfall, the truck and trailer are still on it's side just off the highway. Most of load is still intact on the trailer, though obviously dishelved. The bees are really ticked and flying around. It looks like the trailer will have to be unloaded before it can be pulled out of the cornfield. For those of you who have witnessed such an accident, how did they go about getting everything settled? How can we local beekeepers help? What's next? Grant Jackson, MO ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 20:41:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Small Beekeeper Med Program In-Reply-To: <001901c79e4b$d2d811e0$6c037447@richardnvt653j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I prefer blue "shop towels"s to the cords. Six shop towels (purchased from any auto supply deparment like a Wal-Mart) will soak up one cup of canola oil. I fold the towels into fourths, soak over night, then toss in the hive over the brood chamber. The rest I like as well. My experience has been these are not "instant" cures but work best over time. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 01:48:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: wanted: plans for beehive pallet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Specifically I'm looking to modify or find a design that incorporates varroa screens at the base of the hive. Does anyone have pallet plans? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 04:46:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rowan C Subject: Re: RFID tracking of commercial hives. Comments: To: Jerry Bromenshenk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, I have seen your commercial solution, and another that was active about 6 years ago. I notice that Bee Alert is a full spec monitoring system. Several Federal governments are getting involved in their solutions for livestock. Not being interested in any particular company, I am wondering whether RFID by commercial migratory beekeepers in prevalent in every state now as a standard practise, or whether it is used at a more isolated rate at this stage. Regards, Rowan Campbell ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:28:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Thompson Subject: Re: STR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So a week later and its been odd... but enlightening I hope I'm not writing to /dev/null, I'll bite my tongue instead of responders The 5 nucs slowly recover, I'm not sure how much larval mortality but It seems the Q is doing more "back filling" than she should? I think there should be 5% more sealed, otherwise looks normal The Red Q hive lives up to its karma, very unusual RQ. buckfast, dead 3.5y, last winter RQD main contributor 6 shallow(5.5") w/ bees RQGD raised this spring, dead afternoon 12may That was from 1 frame added, after I was sure of my oopsie I added 2 more w/ larvae (&sealed)& bees 13 may,(didn't think I could buy Q) RQGD from first observation had no larvae 3d or older They must have died and been cleaaned out,I never saw anything older than 2d This changed on 16may, down from 3 frames to 1/4 frame, 1 side, ~300 (12 sq"), the last 3% of this young Q's brood, about 6h worth of laying They are still there now 23may, a furthur 50% mortality, 150 flat caps capped sometime after 1pm 21may (I'd love to incubate this frame in 12d, little $ for equipment). The larvae were 1d slow and 1d too small The bees thought they were OK larvae(mistakenly), made 1 QC 17,18,19th, 2 on 20 & 21st !!! desperation? thats a 6d larvae!! They did pick small, runty larvae, 2d undersize. About 6 QC on imported frame, looked OK The royal jelly tasted bland, not sharp at all The imported frames did have mortality, 20,25 & 50% If larval mortality was only from starvation soon after 13may larvae would have lived, there would 1 or more frame sealed instead of <1/10, and as well little imported mortality. The 50% was most central In reality the infected nurses had to move on, move aside (the imported nurses must have been not very infected, RQD is a B+ hive) This suggests that if a lavae's first feed is infected, its fate is sealed It also suggests that adult to adult, lacking vectors,is not very infective I wonder& worry about the comb, should I get it out, & sterilized? S is no fun. How long does the virus live? I'm not sure if I'm seeing comb aversion??? or more likly weak cluster I'll certainly watch brood on die-off comb, but I may have answered myself >there should be 5% more sealed I should be passing the frames past a camcorder for real #'s Some idle thoughts Has anyone popped a very recent CCD w/ brood into an incubator? (before brood is chilled) It would be interesting & cheap re ccd math: right as far as it goes (+ loss, <25% ccd) but an unasked question is: how many have been exposed? Clearly not 100%, maybe 30%? If you controll both mites well, all hives, you might have a good chance to avoid the worst effects After all most virus pandemics last 2-3y, then fade into the background There should be a computer prog, import jpg, count cells brood & type, parallax would be a problem, import mov? dave ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 07:26:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Small Beekeeper Med Program In-Reply-To: <000d01c79e62$b46a56c0$03bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All the methods have some effect on Varroa mites. The reason has to do with spearmint and wintergreen which cause mite drop but you need screened bottoms for them to work. But many things cause mite drop. You are just buying some time if you are in the north or anywhere with confining winters. You may end up with queen problems with the treatments. Crisco is a Tracheal mite control and the only thing on the list that actually works and has good science behind it. All the others have been around for a long time and those who use them say they work until their colonies die and they drop out of beekeeping. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:14:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: honey bee taxonomy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline l>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_honey_bee > > I should have known to look on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a good starting place, but it is riddled with the inaccuracies inherent in an unedited work of multiple authors. To get a better understanding, I obtained Ben Oldroyd's recent book on the Asian Honey Bee. In it he states: The taxonomy of A. mellifera is mired by the recognition of a plethora of poorly defined subspecies. The confusing, and often dubious, nomenclature has blighted it -- there are over 150 subspecies names, with new ones still being added. Although it is undoubtedly true that some of the honey bees do evolve widely differing ecotypes, both in terms of behavior and appearance, it is doubtful that naming them as subspecies is useful. IN "Honey Bees of Africa" Hepburn and Radloff write: Various studies have included multivariate morphometric analyses, the development of nuclear and mitochondrial DNA profiles, a host of allozymes, pheromones, and a suite of biological characteristics such as polyandry, swarming, migrating and absconding. The newer and additional approaches have revealed levels of variation not previously detected in morphometric [external measurement] studies. In consequence, populations of honeybees previously thought to be homogeneous and thus defined as races or subspecies, actually emerge as a potpourri of independently oscillating traits within a contiguous population. * * * The primary distinction in honey bees is the species: Apis mellifera, A. cerana, etc. Of Apis mellifera, there are three main lineages: South and Central African branch (A), a North African and West European branch (M) and a North Mediterranean branch (C)*. It is the further subdivision of these that is being called into question here. The concept of local types is very attractive to conservationists, but less useful to modern beekeeping. Modern beekeepers use and sell what might be more usefully referred to as "breeds" or "variations". The term "race" is outmoded at best, and somewhat offensive. The desire of many countries to have "native bees" has caused the naming of a number of spurious races, such as A. m. sylvarum. Of course, there are no native honey bees in the Americas and Australia. * some include a fourth evolutionary branch, called O, which includes the Near and Middle Eastern subspecies. -- Peter L. Borst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:21:04 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Bottom screens & curing honey. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>In any case, as invaluable as my screened bottoms have been, since I went to all screened bottoms I've had dramatically worse trouble with slow capping times and moisture. Warm moisture does not drop easily. It's optimal to bring the moisture out of the top. I replace the inner covers with full screen frames and prop the telescoping covers up to provide maximum top flow. You can smell the moist air coming up from the tops. Especially on cool nights, they can evaporate a lot of water. Even without bottom screen, with the top screns, the bees drive a lot of air through the hive to bring the moisture out of the tops. If air humidity is high in the summer it will take them longer to evacuate the moisture. I do this on strong colonies when night time temps climb up into the 50's. This set up also keeps the hives a little cooler on hot days. My hives are pretty much in full sun. It will be a few years before the jujube plants grow tall enough to shade the hives. Waldemar PS. I keep the top screen on the hive till late October. This seems to cause the bees to set up a very tight nest with well positioned stores for the winter. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:22:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Bee color In-Reply-To: <46436E33.4080703@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Color has more to do with sex, and food (prey/hunter) than warmth, otherwise polar bears would be black. Heat preservation comes with size and the outside layers of fat/fur/hair.The more the better, up to a point. Color is associated with surroundings and sex. If you blend in and are not seen well by prey or predators, you last longer. On the other hand, if you stand out and are more attractive to the opposite sex, you are more apt to mate than less colorful competitors. There may be another similar animal/insect that looks a lot like you so color may change to differentiate the species. It could also be that the colors most easily seen by the species are the one they take on. An interesting recent finding was that when red and other colors were first able to be seen by primates, they took on those colors. So there can easily be light and dark colored bees at the same latitude, since what is found at that latitude will not be uniform, even within a few hundred miles. I would look at the surroundings such as plant type, competition and predators than the lack of heat. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:55:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: RFID tracking of commercial hives. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RFID is slow in catching on, so no, its not being used as a routine management device. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:53:12 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bee color Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Color has more to do with sex, and food (prey/hunter) than warmth, otherwise polar bears would be black. Yes and no. :)) Fun fact: it's not readily apparent but polar bears' skin is black for warmth. If you shaved a polar bear you'd see black skin all over. The fur hairs are special light pipes that efficiently bring the sun's radiation directly to the animal's skin. The hair is also hollow allowing the large animal to stay bouyant in water... Having said this, I have little opinion about bees' colors. Very dark bees - as well as as lighter ones - can be found in the tropics and in temperate zones. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:02:49 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan said: > I don't even want to suggest that Imidaclopid in corn > syrup is the cause of CCD. That seems to be exactly what you are suggesting. > But I don't think that it is very unreasonable to ask for > someone to do some testing of corn syrup to see if there is > any present when we know that it is present in the raw material. Here's something that may address your concerns, taken from the MAAREC FAQ on CCD: http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/FAQ/FAQCCD.pdf "Feeding: The practice of feeding was common to most of the beekeepers interviewed and surveyed who experienced CCD. Some feed HFCS, others sucrose however, some did not feed. Most beekeepers interviewed did not feed protein but some used pre-made protein supplement." So, some number of the operations hit by CCD apparently had fed no HFCS at all. More to the point, "CCD" presents a very different set of symptoms from those cited as representative of the problems in France on sunflowers. Here is what was said at the time about the situation in France (cribbed from the Bee-L archives, and numbered by me for easy reference): Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:40:16 -0400 From: Andre Simoneau Organization: MAPAQ Subject: Re Symptoms of intoxication in bees "Symptoms [of Imadocloprid poisoning, as seen on sunflowers in France] are..." 1) "...trembling, rotation on place, curving of the abdomen and a non-stop rubbing of legs together..." Not reported as a symptom of CCD, but a good match for what one sees with an overt Imadocloprid kill. 2) "...Finally bees do not come back at the hive resulting in depopulation of adult bees and a desequilibrium in the ratio [of] brood/adults..." This is close enough to call a "match" with CCD symptoms. 3) "...cares to the brood are neglected and it cools off..." This may or may not be a symptom of CCD, but it makes sense that without enough bees, brood would be lost due to chilling. 4) "...and the colony dies after a few >>>MONTHS<<< after the beginning of intoxication." Nope, not a match at all, as if it took months for a colony to die, beekeepers would have had time to notice and reoort the trembling and so on mentioned in point (1). Further, it is known that CCD seems to depopulate colonies that "looked fine" only a short time ago, so we know that it is not taking months, we are talking weeks or days. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 09:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Semi overturned--now what? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello grant & All, >A semi load of approximately 300 hives on pallets overturned on I-55 in Southeast Missouri, a first for our local emergency responders. 450 is the least number if a full load. >Several beekeepers came to assist. The driver didn't survive and was pulled from the wreckage. Did the truck have a bee co. name on it ? If so please email. >For those of you who have witnessed such an accident, how did they go about getting everything settled? Two things will happen. 1. insurance co. now owns those hives. Too far for us but you can arrange to buy the load from the insurance co but get everything in writting. Bell Hill Honey bought the KC area wreck which made CNN> 2. The beekeeper did not have the load insured. If so most likely he will want the hives. THERE IS ONLY ONE METHOD TO SET THE LOAD UP WITHOUT DAMAGING THE HIVES. GET A WRECKER WITH AIR BAGS! Get the OK to wait for the wrecker. Even if has to come from St. Louis or Memphis. The bees will be fine laying on the side. Once up right then the trailer can be moved or the skids transfered. Trying to set the load up with chains or cables will result in having to handle each box by hand. Myself and another beekeeper might be interested in buying the load from the insurance company and working the load but our bid will be low because of distance. Where on I55 is the load exactly? Only three beekeepers in Missouri I know of capable of handling such a load. Besides us there is Delta Bee in the bootheel. I can contact Neal Bergman if need be. How can we local beekeepers help? If a dumb --- wrecker driver destroys the boxes trying to upright then the whole load will need to be unloaded mostly by hand. What happened with the last load in KC. A large crew spent four days and partial nights and still the city soaped a bunch of pallets (which belonged to Bell Hill Honey ). The load was bought from the insurance Co. by Bell Hill Honey. What's next? Either the insurance co. or the person which owns the hives will have to decide what's the next course of action. Myself and business partner are only interested if we can bid on the damaged load. Too far to bring three trucks and two swingers plus help for 4-5 days. We do have experience in semi wrecks. The highway patrol & the insurance co. may decide to simply kill the bees which most likely will ruin the equipment. Bring in large trash containers and have a huge loaders load the remains and send to a land fill. Will happen if the beekeeper or insurance company does not provide a solution to the wreck. Contact me directly Grant if needed. I will be gone tommorow and Sunday in the day. Leaving town Monday for a couple days. These plans can be changed. Sincerely, Bob Harrison . -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:17:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: screened bottom boards and capping honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric: My experiments with screened bottom boards have produced best results as follows: 1) Blocking most of the airflow through the screen bottom with a piece of sheet metal, plastic strip, etc below the screen bottom until the bees have enough population to maintain brood temps easily. I observed consistent problems with spring buildup and production performance before implementing this change. Can leave airflow block in place year round. Good way to monitor mite fall if checked regularly. 2) Usage of a slotted rack above the screened bottom board. I have observed works best with boomer colonies,all extra space between slots and bottom board is jammed with bees. Also,minimizes hanging out on hive entrance or sides. 3) Additional ventilation provided through inner cover screen, propping hive cover, etc. Again, my observation is this works best with a strong colony. In a dry year, like we have had here this year, my colonies have performed well with no additional ventilation. 4) Crowding the bees near the end of the nectar flow encourages/speeds the capping process. Jerry Wallace Atlanta,Ga ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 21:33:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Technician job, bees, Baton Rouge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forward to the list on behalf of Jose D. Villa: =20 We are putting the word out about this job opening in Baton Rouge for a technician in the SMR (VSH) breeding program. Note that only U.S. citizens will be considered, and that the application materials have to be postmarked by June 1. =20 Specific information for announcement # ARS-X7E-0180 available at: http://www.afm.ars.usda.gov/divisions/hrd/vacancy/VAC2.HTM Jose D. Villa, Research Entomologist USDA, ARS Honey-Bee Breeding Lab. 1157 Ben Hur Road Baton Rouge, LA 70820 Phone (225) 767 9293 Email jvilla@ars.usda.gov ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 22:32:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Stan_Sandler?= Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Fischer wrote: >Here's something that may address your concerns, taken from >the MAAREC FAQ on CCD: >http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/FAQ/FAQCCD.pdf > >"Feeding: The practice of feeding was common to most of the >beekeepers interviewed and surveyed who experienced CCD. >Some feed HFCS, others sucrose however, some did not feed." This does not address my concern, because as I said, although you apparently don't believe it, I am not suggesting that this is the cause of CCD. I chose the subject line of this thread very poorly it seems. I am saying that there might be some connection, but it certainly is not my major concern since I have not experienced CCD to my knowledge. My concern, is, as I stated, that I can not find any test results looking for possible residues in corn syrup. Some test results is what will address my concerns. You have impressed me many times with your ability to source information on the internet and other places. Can you source any test results? How many tons of this are fed to bees every year; surely somebody is testing? >"Symptoms [of Imadocloprid poisoning, as seen on sunflowers >in France] are..." > >1) "...trembling, rotation on place, curving of the abdomen > and a non-stop rubbing of legs together..." > >Not reported as a symptom of CCD, but a good match >for what one sees with an overt Imadocloprid kill. No argument: Please note the sunflowers had high levels of imidacloprid (the seed was treated with it, and it was intended to turn the plant toxic to insects) >2) "...Finally bees do not come back at the hive resulting in >depopulation of adult bees and a desequilibrium in the >ratio [of] brood/adults..." > >This is close enough to call a "match" with CCD symptoms. And this is the symptom of lower levels of poisoning. >3) "...cares to the brood are neglected and it cools off..." > >This may or may not be a symptom of CCD, but it makes sense >that without enough bees, brood would be lost due to chilling. Chilling and other brood problems such as chalkbrood and EFB will naturally result from depopulation. >4) "...and the colony dies after a few >>>MONTHS<<< after the >beginning of intoxication." > >Nope, not a match at all, as if it took months for a colony to die, >beekeepers would have had time to notice and reoort the trembling >and so on mentioned in point (1). Further, it is known that CCD seems >to depopulate colonies that "looked fine" only a short time ago, so >we know that it is not taking months, we are talking weeks or days. I know you pride yourself on your logic, so please consider that point 4 is inconsistent with point 2. If a colony has a lot of brood and few bees it cannot be collapsing over months. Brood does not last that long. Several frames of brood with a handful of bees is the symptom of rapid collapse. However, the queen could survive for a long time with a few young bees. The trembling threshold does not need to be reached for the confusion threshold to cause depopulation. Stan ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 07:51:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: [Fwd: [BOMBUS-L] Pollinator Habitat Protection Act of 2007 Introduced into the Senate] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received this on Bombus-L the other day. Thought it would be of interest here. George- -------------------- George Fergusson Whitefield Maine -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [BOMBUS-L] Pollinator Habitat Protection Act of 2007 Introduced into the Senate Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 09:20:08 -0700 From: Matthew Shepherd (Xerces Society) Reply-To: mdshepherd@XERCES.ORG To: BOMBUS-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU For immediate Release Date: May 24, 2007 Contacts: Scott Hoffman Black, Executive Director Xerces Society: 503-449-3792 sblack@xerces.org Brandon Willis, Aide to Senator Baucus: (202-224-6350) Brandon_Willis@baucus.senate.gov Pollinator Habitat Protection Act of 2007 Introduced into the Senate Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) and Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) along with 28 other co-sponsors introduced the Pollinator Protection Act of 2007 into the Senate today. This bill allows existing conservation programs to provide enhanced habitat for pollinators. The European honey bee is -- and will continue to be -- the most important single crop pollinator in the United States. However, with the decline in the number of managed honey bee colonies from diseases, parasitic mites, and Africanized bees - as well as from Colony Collapse Disorder - it is important to increase the use of native bees in our agricultural system as well. Providing habitat for these pollinators is vital to this effort. The Pollinator Protection Act of 2007 is aimed at improving habitat and food sources for pollinators. This bill utilizes existing Farm Bill conservation programs to strengthen both native and managed pollinator habitat. It does not cost additional money, or create a new program. It simply requires existing conservation programs to acknowledge pollinator habitat as a conservation resource and rewards producers whose conservation practices are beneficial for pollinators. “This bill can help to improve crop security and the sustainability of agriculture, by helping farmers in the United States diversity their pollinator portfolio” said Scott Hoffman Black, executive director of the Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation. “The Pollinator Protection Act of 2007 will provide incentives to encourage farmers to improve habitat for both native and managed pollinators.” Hundreds of species of native bees are available for crop pollination. Research from across the country demonstrates that a wide range of native bees help with crop pollination, in some cases providing all of the pollination required. These free, unmanaged bees provide a valuable service, estimated recently by scientists from the Xerces Society and Cornell University to be worth $3 billion annually in the U.S. "Almost all of our pollination eggs are in the honey bee basket," says Mace Vaughan, conservation director of the Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation. "The Pollinator Protection Act of 2007 will put habitat on the ground for bumble bees, sweat bees, mason bees, squash bees, sunflower bees, miner bees, and also support honey bees. This bill strengthens and adds pollinator baskets for agriculture." Pollinator Protection Act of 2007 Conserving AmericaÂ’s pollinators will require economic incentives for private landowners. On October 18, 2006, the National Academy of Sciences released the report Status of Pollinators in North America, which called attention to the decline of pollinators. Prepared by a National Research Council (NRC) committee, the report made several recommendations including urging the federal government to fund pollinator conservation through Farm Bill conservation and research programs. The bill would create incentives for farmers to protect, restore and enhance pollinator habitat on and around farms. Pollinator Protection Act of 2007 would encourage state-level Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) and Farm Service Agency (FSA) offices to promote scientifically tested and approved pollinator-friendly practices for farmers participating in Farm Bill conservation programs. Fully integrating native pollinators into Farm Bill programs can have a wide impact. For example, the Environmental Quality Incentives Program (EQIP) allocated over $1 billion in financial and technical assistance to farmers in 2006, and the Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) retired over 36 million acres of farmland, 4.5 million of which was specifically for wildlife habitat that could be tailored to provide the greatest benefit for pollinators. Importance of Protecting Pollinators Pollinators are essential to our environment. The ecological service they provide is important for the reproduction of nearly 75 percent of the worldÂ’s flowering plants. This includes more than two-thirds of the worldÂ’s crop species, and one in three mouthfuls of the food that we eat. The United States alone grows more than one hundred crops that either require or benefit from pollinators. Beyond agriculture, native pollinators are keystone species in most terrestrial ecosystems. Fruits and seeds derived from insect pollination are a major part of the diet of approximately 25 percent of birds, and of mammals ranging from deer mice to grizzly bears. Why are native bees so helpful? Collectively, native bees are more versatile than honey bees. Some species, such as mason bees, are active when conditions are too cold or wet for honey bees. Many species also are simply more efficient at moving pollen between flowers. Bumble bees and several other native species can buzz pollinate flowers - vibrating the flower to release pollen from deep inside the pollen-bearing anthers - which honey bees cannot do. Crops such as tomatoes, cranberries, and blueberries produce larger, more abundant fruit when buzz pollinated. The Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation The Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation is an international non-profit organization that protects the diversity of life through the conservation of invertebrates. The Society advocates for invertebrates and their habitats by working with scientists, land managers, educators, and citizens on conservation and education projects. Its core programs focus on endangered species, native pollinators, and watershed health. For more information on pollinator conservation go to: www.xerces.org Pollinator Habitat Protection Act 2007 Cosponsors Sponsor: Baucus, Max- (D - MT) 1. Chambliss, Saxby- (R - GA) 2. Grassley, Chuck- (R - IA) 3. Landrieu, Mary L.- (D - LA) 4. Nelson, Bill- (D - FL) 5. Isakson, Johnny- (R - GA) 6. Craig, Larry E.- (R - ID) 7. Casey, Robert P., Jr.- (D - PA) 8. Dorgan, Byron L.- (D - ND) 9. Feinstein, Dianne- (D - CA) 10 Clinton, Hillary Rodham- (D - NY) 11. Brown, Sherrod- (D - OH) 12. Harkin, Tom- (D - IA) 13. Kerry, John F.- (D - MA) 14. Allard, Wayne (R-CO) 15. Collins, Susan M.- (R - ME) 16. Byrd, Robert C.- (D - WV) 17. Thune, John- (R - SD) 18. Boxer, Barbara- (D - CA) 19. Tester, Jon- (D - MT) 20. Feingold, Russell D.- (D - WI) 21. Sanders, Bernard- (I - VT) 22. Snowe, Olympia J.- (R - ME) 23. Cochran, Thad- (R - MS) 24 Nelson, E. Benjamin- (D - NE) 25. Roberts, Pat- (R - KS) 26. Salazar, Ken- (D - CO) 27 Crapo, Mike- (R - ID) 28. Stabenow, Debbie- (D - MI) 29. Conrad, Kent- (D - ND) ______________________________________________________ The Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation The Xerces Society is an international nonprofit organization that protects the diversity of life through invertebrate conservation. To join the Society, make a contribution, or read about our work, please visit www.xerces.org. Matthew Shepherd Director, Pollinator Conservation Program 4828 SE Hawthorne Boulevard, Portland, OR 97215, USA Tel: 503-232 6639 Cell: 503-807 1577 Fax: 503-233 6794 Email: mdshepherd@xerces.org ______________________________________________________ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 08:08:12 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am not suggesting that this is the cause of CCD. > But I don't think that it is very unreasonable to ask for > someone to do some testing of corn syrup to see if there is > any present when we know that it is present in the raw material. Well, what IS present in the raw material? Plants break down Imadocloprid when they metabolize it, and bees seem to take those metabolites (as found in netar and pollen) and further break them down. At present, there is a need to track down the specific chemical process is both in the plant and in the bee, so we know what to look for when doing things like "testing HFCS". The post-harvest processing of corn into HFCS is clearly a special case, so the chemical processes there are also complex enough to require a bio-chemist or three to deterimine what the end products and byproducts would be. See "Metabolism of imidacloprid in Apis mellifera", S. Suchail et al., Pest Management Science 60: 291-296, 2003. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:30:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stan_Sandler?= Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Fischer wrote: >Well, what IS present in the raw material? > >Plants break down Imadocloprid when they metabolize it, Actually, imidacloprid is fairly stable in plants. That is why it is good as a systemic pesticide. It persists through the season and offers long term insect toxicity. When testing is done of crops to make sure they are below the maximum residue level, they do not bother to test the metabolites. What is of more significance in plants is not metabolism or breakdown, but the transport of imidacloprid to various plant parts. I am not aware of what has been done in corn, but in sunflowers the chemical is found in fairly high concentration in the leaves, but also is found in the flower parts, and then in even higher amounts in the seed. If corn is the same then one would expect that the seed (which is the part used for the syrup I presume) would have a high concentration. 1.2 (Ref. 5: BAYER AG, Doc. SXR/ Am 006, Sept. 1999: Residue levels of Imidacloprid and Imidacloprid Metabolites in Nectar, Blossoms and Pollen of Sunflowers Cultivated in Soils with Differing Imidacloprid Residue Levels and Effects of These Residues on Foraging Honeybees - Farmland "Hofchen" - 41 pages.) >bees seem to take those metabolites (as found in netar and pollen) >and further break them down. There are two metabolites which are of concern because they are also highly toxic to bees, those are olefin and di-hydroxy-imidacloprid. But they are unlikely to be present at higher levels than the parent molecule, so a simple test for the parent molecule would be sufficient. Since bees are not being tested, metabolism in the bee is not of concern. At present, there is a need to >track down the specific chemical process is both in the plant >and in the bee, so we know what to look for when doing things >like "testing HFCS". I do not see why we need to know the mechanics of the process in the plant to test the level in the corn raw material. That is why a maximum residue level has been set for corn. And the bee is immaterial. >The post-harvest processing of corn into HFCS is clearly a >special case, so the chemical processes there are also >complex enough to require a bio-chemist or three to deterimine >what the end products and byproducts would be. Yes, I agree that the chemical processes, expecially the ion exchange, may hopefully eliminate the chemical. I certainly hope so, because I fed over 50 tonne last year. But I don't need three bio-chemists to theorize about the end products. I would be happy just to have a test for the parent molecule (and perhaps those two known toxic metabolites). 1.5. (Ref.8 : Dr. J.M. Bonmatin and Dr.I. Moineau -CNRS Orléans / Dr. M. Colin - INRA Avignon / Dr. C. Fléché - AFSSA Nice: Rapport No. 3 of June 2000 " Effets des produits phytosanitaires sur les abeilles - Progr. 1999 - 2000" Regarding sunflowers treated with GAUCHO: * Imidacloprid is present in all parts of the sunflower plant. * The concentration of the Imidacloprid in the apical part increases significantly during the formation of the flower bud, to attain an average of 5 - 6 ppb. at the beginning of the flowering stage (stage 65). Regarding maize plants that have been treated with GAUCHO: * Maize treated with GAUCHO contains Imidacloprid in all parts of the plant, notably in the panicule visited by the bee, levels up to 10 ppb. (average = 3.8 ppb.) * The high concentrations in the flowering parts (up to 20 ppb., average = 10.7 ppb.) suggests similarity to the phenomena observed in sunflowers ( M.F. Laurent - see 1.4.) * (Work done in 1999 by J.M. Cantin, under the direction of Dr. M. Colin - INRA Avignon) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 23:13:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan, (Jim), Hate to intrude - but if my memory serves me correctly, HFCS was tested for Imidaclopride during the investigations in France. I have not the reference at hand but if you mail me, I shall supply you with an e-mail address from where you may get the information. Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 06:20:13 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Actually, imidacloprid is fairly stable in plants. I think that anyone looking at HFCS is going to see the breakdown products, rather than the untouched imidacloprid itself. All those enzymes they use to make HFCS would have an impact. > But I don't need three bio-chemists to theorize > about the end products. I think they might help. You are over-simplifying an issue that has prompted widely divergent views among those more qualified than us to consider these issues. If you want to know the levels of "Imidacloprid" in HFCS, first you have to know what imidacloprid would "metabolize" down to as a result of first, the actions of the plant, and second, as a result of the processing of the corn into HFCS. That's not straightforward, and if you ask a lab to look for untouched "Imidacloprid" in HFCS, I fear that you would come up empty-handed, looking for the wrong contaminant. Peter says someone's looked at this, but I still offer that there is an ongoing discussion headed "What should we be looking for?", and it is a very interesting discussion to anyone concerned about bees. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 05:01:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Researcher/Author Seeks Testimonials to Apitherapy's Effectiveness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Researcher/Author Seeks Testimonials to Apitherapy’s Effectiveness Kirsten Traynor, an American researcher based in Germany, is seeking personal stories from individuals who have treated any type of illness or disorder with bee hive products. SEE: http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/05/researcherauthor-seeks-testimonials-to.html ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 09:08:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: CCD tidbit of news Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.tribune-democrat.com/local/local_story_146223927.html Cox-Foster and a group of researchers have been working on the problem for seven months and continue to grapple with the crisis as they search for common links. “I think we’re closer to identifying potential causes. There could be several causes,” she said. “We’re getting ready to say we are finding some new pathogens that could cause colony collapse.” Colony collapse disorder has resulted in the deaths of millions of honeybees worldwide. Up to half of the 2.5 million colonies in the United States have died off. Many scientists now say the chief suspect is the most commonly used insecticide on the planet: Imidacloprid. It is found in a variety of commercial insecticides. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 10:02:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: CCD tidbit of news Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Our estimable reporter writes: > Up to half of the 2.5 million colonies in the United States have died off. > Many scientists now say the chief suspect is the most commonly used insecticide on the planet: Imidacloprid. Somehow they never seem compelled to state *where they got these numbers* or who the "many scientists" are. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 10:48:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: Africanized honeybees have unique tolerance to Varroa mites Comments: To: "Peter L. Borst" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good digging, Peter. I always appreciate your illustrious and erudite data-based views; you are one busy bee, indeed. Yes, in fact, I am taking care of Charles’ (aka Dr. Abramson) bees in the hope that he and I could conduct a joint bee- behavioral research in the future. No, they are not scuts, just European spit-fighters. On a totally irrelevant note, I have taken sabbatical from this board for a good while since I had little to add to fine observations made by the regulars. Greetings to all, in general, and to those from abroad, in particular. Tempus Loquendi, Yoon Sik Kim still from the People’s Democratic Republic of Oklahoma ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 11:43:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: CCD tidbit of news In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Many scientists now say the chief suspect is the most commonly used insecticide on the planet: Imidacloprid. I tried to find out if this was true and it may or may not be. Malathion probably is world-wide (based on EPA documents that were two years old) so even that statement is questionable, but in my search I was led to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid_effects_on_bee_population This may have been written by Bayer, but it appears objective (or as objective as wiki can be). I would love to see the study (uncited) after Imidacloprid was banned in France that showed no difference in bee mortality two years later. The beekeeper's said that it did not matter since it obviously was still active two years later and caused their problems. What is most interesting is the trail that starts at this article and leads to Fipronil, also a corn treatment and directly implicated in bee death in France. It is listed as toxic to bees. It came on the market in 1993 and is manufactured in France. Imidacloprid started being used in 1994. Decline in bee populations in France started about the time that both appeared, according to the article about Imidacloprid. If there is a link with corn, we had best look at everything that is associated with corn treatments before singling out just one. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 17:01:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Feral's, varying cell sizes and varrora Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Refering to the June 2007 ABJ article on page 489 by Dr. Wyatt Mangum he describes how he has a couple of dozen colonies which have had no varroa treatments for 4 years. The bees are feral stock and have been requeened with their own queen cells and maintained in top bar hives. If I understand correctly TPH comb more closely approximates natural comb found in feral hives with a range of comb size from 4.8-5.6mm I find it interesting that Dr. Seeleys checkup on feral hives living in trees in the Cornell Forest almost 20 yr from his first study showed that they are surviving with varrora and now we have Mangums TBH ferals apparently surviving too. Additionally we have David Murrels insight into using small cell comb in the center brood nest which he reports allows his bees to co-exist with varorra mites. Is there a common thread here? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 14:50:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: BEE WRECK (update) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I am giving an update on the I 55 bee wreck. Below are the words of our BEE= -L member Grant Gillard. Grant showed up and stayed till the job was done. = Three other local beekeepers also helped. I think if you look at each bee w= reck which is worked by beekeepers you will see local beekeepers always sho= w up to help.=20 The owner showed up and would have worked the load by himself but it brings= tears to the eyes when you see your fellow beekeepers climbing out of thei= r pickups to help. Grant kept me informed and said they had the problem under control as I was= around 500 miles away. I do not think Grant would mind me sharing the emai= l.=20 I waited to see if Grant would tell on BEE-L how the local beekeepers helpe= d the commercial beekeeper but I suspect all the praise they wanted was a s= imple "thank you" from the owner. So I am singing his praises! Thanks to th= ose locals and Grant from the beekeeping industry! Grants words: "On Friday we restacked, by hand, all of the pallets of bees that fell off = the truck. It was just the owner, Mark Sunberg, another beekeeper and me. = We started at 6:30 am. Two other beekeepers joined us for a couple of hou= rs around lunch time." "These hives were all double brood boxes, four hive per pallet, two palle= ts high. It was quite an experience. As we were all suited up there were = no stings or other problems. The bees were buzzing in a dense cloud. The = other beekeeper noted, "This is a once in a lifetime experience," and I sai= d, "Boy, I hope so!" "By evening, we had two borrowed trailers and hauled off about 240 to 280= hives to a temporary location about 5 miles away. I roughly guessed we sa= ved 60%, and if a full load was 400 or so, then that figure works. The hiv= es were loaded by a masonry forklift (and it was a MONSTER forklift). The = other beekeeper works full-time for a masonry company and was able to borro= w this loader from his boss. Had we not had that forklift and those traile= rs, it would have been a different story." "The rest of the wreck has been cherry-picked for questionable salvage. = I took some frames and brood boxes that need massive repair but as I looked= at them today they are really only fit for the fire. There were a couple = of swarms hanging in the trees I knocked into fresh boxes. As of today, th= ere are just piles of broken pallets, smashed boxes and a lot of lost hopes= and dreams." "Other than offering my help to clean up, I don't know anything about the= insurance arrangements. The hives are sitting until after the driver's fu= neral. I also think they need to get the right sized trailer before headin= g back to Minnesota. As of this evening, the remains have not yet been bur= ned." "MODOT had a sign flashing "Angry Bees - Do Not Stop." They closed one l= ane of traffic, for what, I'm not sure." Here are a couple of links.=20=20 http://www.semissourian.com/story/1213641.html http://www.kfvs12.com/ (look through the top stories for the video) Thanks for your offer to help. I hope I never need to put your good advi= ce into practice! Grant Jackson, MO Thanks again Grant! Also for taking the time to keep me informed! Sincerely, Bob Harrison --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 20:15:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Boeing 737 grounded by swarm of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070525/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_britain_bees Plane grounded by swarm of bees Fri May 25, 9:17 AM ET LONDON (Reuters) - A passenger plane was forced to land after flying into a swarm of bees, leaving hundreds of holidaymakers stranded. The Palmair Boeing 737 had to return to Bournemouth Airport, Dorset, shortly after take-off at 8:10 a.m. on Thursday following an engine surge. The pilot decided to abort the flight to Faro in Portugal and returned for safety checks. The plane's engine was thought to have become clogged with bees, which may have caused possible damage to a fan, the company said on Friday. Huge clouds of bees have been seen around Bournemouth during the past few days, a spokeswoman added. About 90 passengers were on board, with a further 106 waiting in the Algarve for the return flight. A replacement plane finally left at 7:15 p.m. -- about 11 hours later. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 23:18:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Feral's, varying cell sizes and varrora Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Refering to the June 2007 ABJ article on page 489 by Dr. Wyatt Mangum he describes how he has a >couple of dozen colonies which have had no varroa treatments for 4 years. ,,,The bees are feral stock Nice to see the researchers finally looking at the feral bees! Ferals certainly are recovering quickly in my area. Perhaps supporting my prediction made several years earlier that ferals would be ahead of the bee breeders in the recovery process. I have bee collecting and assessing ferals for almost 10 years, and have colonies derived from feral stock thriving for 7 years without treatments, so I’m 3 up on the good Dr. ;) >Additionally we have David Murrels insight into using small cell comb in the center brood nest which >he reports allows his bees to co-exist with varorra mites. Coexisting is nice. But a simple co-existence is not where I am setting my goals. From what I am seeing with the ferals in my area, it’s the traits that accompany the smaller cell sizes that seem to be enabling the ferals here to not only coexist, BUT go beyond that and thrive. >From my observations, small cell won’t make good bees out of bad stock, you need to be selective. Best Wishes, Joe Feralbeeproject.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 23:32:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Trait Differentiation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit waldig@netzero.com wrote: >Unless you are already doing it, I'd set-up my mating nucs with >virgins in this location. Hello Waldemar! That’s in my plans to place mating nucs in woodlands and areas where I find traits of interest. I have a few out already, but need to do more. >From what you describe, these may be the >*best* bees in the US since they grooming for varroa. There are excellent breeders in the US producing excellent bees. I’m not making claims that these bees are as good, or better than any other well bred bees. But, because varroa pressure remains low in these colonies, and brood patterns are very nice, honey production is good, and they thrive without any treatments. Perhaps, there are fundamental traits in place that will be valuable for breeders OR myself to select from to produce a very good bee. Brother Adam went off to Africa, NOT to find the best bees, but to find the traits that would be useful in his breeding, and this is basically what I am attempting to do here with the local ferals by gathering bees and assessing for traits of interest. Also, I have yet to prove that the grooming trait is effective or not against varroa. Low varroa counts, surviving without treatments and ability to produce honey seem to suggest something is suppressing mites in these colonies, but I have yet to prove any mode of action. A snip from a research manuscript reported (name dropping, dropped here) ;) “Allogrooming never dislodged a mite.” So this is my project for the year to study the behavior to see this particular behavior will dislodge mites. It would be great if the event should occur, and I could get it on video. What kind of >honey crops have you gotten from these bees? A few seasons ago I noticed a great increase in brood viability and largeness of patterns occurring. I don’t know why the viability increased in all my colonies from not so good to the very high 90’s, in practically a single season. But I’m assuming the strong rebound of the feral population in my area has assisted in better mating. The last two years I noticed the colonies being stronger, and crops have increased as a result of better queen performance. For me to quote numbers and crop results on these lists tends not to be accepted well. So all I will say is that this line outperformed my other colonies and did much better than what the average is for my area. >Would you consider selling some of this stock? At this time, all I am mainly interested in is testing and experimenting with this line of bees. My love in beekeeping is observing and evaluating traits found in the feral population, and this is where my focus is. I want to do observations on the grooming behavior this season before deciding to enter any breeding program. If I can manage to quantify allogrooming as the reason for the mite suppression in these colonies, then I may consider selling stock. But without finding the actual mode of resistance, all I have is something that is not a great selling point; “mite resistant stock with a funny looking grooming behavior that may or may not be the mode of action suppressing varroa.” ;) >I'd be interested to know if this woodland population is steadily >expanding. Do you have any way of gauging that? The immediate area of woodlands where I assess my swarms had been lagging behind the feral recovery till about 2 years ago. The first areas I noticed to recover were in more prime bee habitats which have abundance of ‘large voids‘ and tended to be located in remote farmlands to the West, and old growth forests to the East of my location. The best way that I know of to gauge the population of ferals is to set up several feeding stations to triangulate the positions of feral nests, then each year repeating the process. I tried it in my immediate area and In the past it was quite boring at the feeding stations with rarely a bee visiting. But last season, feeding frenzy’s occurred at all stations making the process much more exciting. And by using triangulation, there is a possible 5 feral colonies in my immediate area. Best Wishes, Joe Feralbeeproject.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 20:57:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: CCD 2007? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, As I said last fall beekeepers need CCD answers and not documentation. I received my first call on my offer of helping beekeepers in Missouri try to turn around CCD. I got the call this week. I am going to be gone the next two days but maybe beekeepers on BEE_L might have suggestions for us to try. The beekeeper has around 20 pallets of hives ( 80 colonies) displaying CCD symptoms. Missing bees with abandoned larva and brood. Hives going backwards instead of forwards. Some robbing has went on of the boxes while in a large holding yard which does not fit the normal CCD description but only in a *very* small percent( maybe 6 or 7%). However the hives are dwindling and we expect all will fail in a few weeks if the problem is not turned around. The boxes were last years deadouts from hives turned in as CCD on the survey. New packages put in first of April. We have elimnated these problems. 1. varroa 2. tracheal mites. 3. Both foulbroods Tommorow the beekeeper is shaking four of the hives down on drawn comb which have not been used for brood rearing in an attempt at turning things around. We are removing all brood, stored honey/pollen etc. Only the bees and queen kept. If the above reverses the effect then all the hives will be done. My friends from around the world which are aware of the above problem ( phone & email conversation) suspect contaminated pollen in those boxes. Every beekeeper has suggested the above shake down as possible cure. Why was it not tried last fall? Why not talked about in CCD updates? I have read all the published CCD information and have yet to find a situation where a CCD beekeeper shook bees on new clean comb. Has there been such a case? If so i would like to speak directly to the beekeeper. Please email me directly. question for CCD team: Was any chemical contamination (such as even low level imadicloprid) found in the CCD pollen? I would be interested in the lists comments and will send the CCD team samples if they like but all the hives died on the CCD teams watch and we plan to turn these around if possible. With all due respect the CCD team needs to find out why half the hives in the Dave Hackenberg study are crashing and the other half with radiated and acetic acid treated comb are fine. Please email me directly as soon as you figure out the source of the problem. Thanks in advance! All my fellow beekeepers are keeping a close look at hives and this is the first call I have had. Are others in my area seeing hives with the described CCD symptoms? If you are please email as I want to take a look. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 22:58:08 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Feral's, varying cell sizes and varrora In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Brian, > Is there a common thread here? > Yes there is, one of which has been written about for some time now here on Bee-L and other lists. Joe Waggle should be noted and recognized for his work in studying feral colonies in Pennsylvania. I think there is a great resource in feral genetics of course combined with natural sized cells on comb. Keith Malone No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/821 - Release Date: 5/27/2007 3:05 PM ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 07:34:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Looks like the media is going to turn up the heat on Bayer. Fact or fiction a public media campaign could go further then a study. I think it would be great since sytemic insecticides just sound like a bad idea. Who needs the endless studies if ethically it sounds like a bad idea and we care about pollinators. http://www.sunjournal.com/story/214193-3/Business/ Possible_culprit_identified_in_decline_of_honeybees/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 08:51:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: The chief suspect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >> Many scientists now say the chief suspect is the most commonly used insecticide on the planet: Imidacloprid. I am beginning to wonder if these reporters write anything. They are just plain copying whole sentences from each other. This one is popping up with exactly the same wording in articles all over the US. I found 18 articles that simply cut and pasted the sentence, -- un-sourced, of course pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 09:09:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot McPherson Organization: McPherson Family Farms Subject: Re: honey bee taxonomy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, This is a great post. Yes there are groupings of bees, but for the most part Honey Bees are just Honey Bees. Scot McPherson McPherson Family Farms Davenport, IA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:12:55 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD tidbit of news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > This may have been written by Bayer, but it appears objective > (or as objective as wiki can be). The problem with the various "wiki"s about beekeeping is that they tend to be "resistant" to correction on even simple issues of fact. Go ahead, slog through an entry, and then try to edit it to correct any one of the many obvious errors. Within hours, it is re-edited, restoring the inaccurate information, and your edit is gone. "Objective"? It seems that the egos are large and delicate over there. So much for wikis. :) As for the experience in France, the blame placed upon Imidaclopid may have been misplaced. The reason that the pesticide was "banned" was the "precautionary principle", which puts the burden of proof on the company making or selling a pesticide. The ban was a political decision, and may have not been supported by good science, but the "precautionary principle" expects the company that wants to make a profit selling poisons to provide the "good science" proving that their products are harmless. That said, tests on caged bees will not reveal many "behavioral problems", as bees in a cage have no ability to engage in the full range of their normal daily activities. Likewise, the widespread use of the pesticide implies that the pesticide alone, any pesticide alone, can't be the sole cause and trigger for CCD. A combination of factors seems to be required to trigger the appearance of CCD. > I would love to see the study (uncited) after Imidaclopid > was banned in France that showed no difference in bee > mortality two years later. The citation is below: Faucon, Clément, Dajnudel, Mathieu, Ribière, Martel, Zeggane, Chauzat, Aubert (2005) "Experimental study on the toxicity of imidacloprid given in syrup to honey bee (Apis mellifera) colonies". Pest Management Science; 61 (2), 111-125. In the study, they exposed bee colonies to 0.5 or 5 ppb imidacloprid in sugar syrup for a time period that would equal the bloom period of sunflowers, and tracked the gestalt "health" of the hives for the rest of the summer, the winter, and the following spring. They saw no difference between untreated control colonies and the colonies fed the imidacloprid-laced "nectar". The problem I have with the study is that they fed imidacloprid itself, rather than the metabolites of imiadcloprid that would result from plant metabolization of imiadcloprid, and appear in nectar and pollen. It would have been easier to plant some actual sunflower seed treated with the seed treatment(s), and keep the bees on those blooms with the usual large "greenhouse" covered with screening. If you read the papers by Severine Suchail and his group, you find that looking for imiadcloprid itself in bees is off-target. Looking for the results of plant metabolization (olefin and 5-hydroxyimidacloprid) in bees is something that can be done, but only if one looks within mere hours of ingestion. So it seems clear that the process here is: 1) Plant metabolization 2) Bee ingestion 3a) Bee metabolization of plant metabolites or 3b) Bee non-metabolization of plant metabolites ...and no one has yet determined what "bee metabolization" produces, or even if the chemicals "pass through" the bees! We know that the olefin and 5-hydroxyimidacloprid breakdown products of imiadcloprid are not found in bees only a few hours after ingestion, so the stuff either passes through the bee without being metabolized, or is further metabolized into other "breakdown chemicals". So, the stuff is either broken down in the bee (perhaps bad) or the stuff appears in bee fecal matter unchanged (perhaps good). But study after study was done where the sole "data" recorded was the "observable effects". As if bees in a 1-foot-square "cage" are able to show any memory/navigational problems! > "Many scientists now say the chief suspect is the most commonly > used insecticide on the planet: Imidacloprid." The statement is at odds with the litany being intoned by the specific team working on the problem. They have been chanting "pathogen" for quite some time over at the MAAREC website. They have not changed their music or lyrics yet. "The press" and "wikis" clearly are not going to add much value, as both have an incentive to over-simplify, and are written by people who not only lack first-hand knowledge, but also have apparently not even done their homework by reading the literature. In science, step one is to read the existing literature on the subject. All of it. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 07:16:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Sea Lion Shark Bite Wound Treated with Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sea Lion Shark Bite Wound Treated with Honey California Sea Lion Receives Sweet Treatment After Shark Attack SEE: http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/05/sea-lion-shark-bite-wound-treated-with.html On September 6th the Care Center received a yearling female sea lion with extensive wounds to her side and abdomen. The marks were characteristic of a shark bite… The problem was how best to treat a contaminated wound of this size. Sea lions are notoriously good at removing bandages and the necessary restraint for repeated bandage changes is stressful to the animal. She was not stable enough to undergo anesthesia, so whatever treatment was selected would need to be rapidly applied and minimally painful to an awake animal. Due to the size of the wound and the degree of contamination I decided to try a novel wound treatment that dates backs at least several centuries, honey. .. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:21:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: The chief suspect In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline After days of work, I may have tracked down the source of the statement that imidacloprid is the most commonly used insecticide on the planet. >From Bayer: > Confidor(r) is already the world's leading agricultural insecticide. In 2006 Bayer CropScience launches a unique new formulation technology making its active ingredient, imidacloprid, even more effective against sucking insects. Confidor OTEQ(r) is a patented formulation ensuring improved foliar adhesion, better penetration and enhanced rain fastness. -- Peter L. Borst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 16:16:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: The chief suspect In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Peter. > > "imidacloprid is the most commonly used insecticide" > >> "Confidor(r) is already the world's leading agricultural insecticide." There is a difference between "leading" and "commonly used", especially when the former comes from the Bayer press agent.It certainly was not the most commonly used in the late 90s and early 2000s from the EPA website. This may have more to do with trade names than the actual chemical. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 16:28:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Truth in media Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In another thread Peter Borst questioned the accuracy of some reporters. I imagine some do use a bit of poetic license in their reporting. Two years of years ago I shared a couple of hives with a friend who works at the public radio network here. We split the cost of the bees, and she provided the equipment. We kept them in her backyard and I looked after them for the most part. One afternoon while I was doing a hive inspection, she came home from work and asked if I’d mind being interviewed for a local radio piece while inspecting the hive. I agreed to it, so she took out her recorder and began asking me some questions. When the piece aired, my bee partner/reporter friend began by describing the attire I was wearing as I inspected the hive. She said I was wearing a set of white beekeeping coveralls, beekeeping gloves, a beekeeping veil and rubber beekeeping boots. I suppose that’s what the public generally thinks beekeepers look like. The point is I wasn’t wearing any of that stuff. It was a nice day and the bees were well behaved, so I was wearing a pair of jeans and short sleeved tee shirt. I also was not wearing a veil. Regards, Dick Allen ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 16:28:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Fredericksen wrote: > I think it would be great since sytemic insecticides just sound like a > bad idea. Who needs the endless studies if ethically it sounds like a bad idea and we care about > pollinators. Systemic insecticides have been around for more than 40 years. They actually are better for the environment since they target the insect that actually harms the plant. Most of the major bee damage has not come from systemic insecticides but from powders/granules that the bees treat like pollen or direct sprays. It seems that most of the Imidacloprid finger pointing started from a beekeeper who thought that might be the problem, not from the CCD group. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 17:42:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: The chief suspect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 28/05/2007 15:34:40 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: imidacloprid, even more effective against sucking insects. How do honeybees transfer nectar from nectaries (floral or extra floral) to their guts and onwards to the hive? Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 18:13:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: bee eating bird Comments: To: Wayne Young Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Wayne et al. In Oklahoma, barn martins are well-known to pick up drones, flying around apiaries, so much so that I know of one keeper getting rid of his martin houses he had initially set up to rid of mosquitoes around his home. In my case, I have seen a pair of mockingbirds pick up drones. This particular pair nests along the pocket of woods on my ten-acre property, where I have been maintaining two yards, both enveloped by tall trees, forcing the bees to shoot straight up for their taking off and initial approach on three sides. Given the option most of my bees take off through one open area (East Runway) although on their return flight, they seem to descend, like airliners’ approach toward initial fix in a stacking formation, circling and whirling toward their homes. During their orientation flight, the wood is abuzz with their shock and awe display: a thick smoke of bees tornadoing around the apiaries. (I enjoy watching them nearly every afternoon; I cannot believe that my March 1 walk-away splits have grown stronger than the parent colonies). It is during this approach period, especially when a strong gust shooting all the way up from the Gulf of Mexico throws them off athwart, catching them in the swirl and pockets of eddies, however momentarily, when the mockingbirds, alight on the high branch, dart and catch fat drones for a snack. According to my observations, once thrown off by the gust, drones seem to have, however inadvertently, made themselves available as an easy pick. Disgusted by the sight, particularly the ease of the picking, I tried to discourage the birds, like a fool, throwing stones at them and scaring them away. But somehow these mockingbirds have learned to come out only in the afternoon when the drones are available. Of course, there are, I hazard guess, hundreds of drones buzzing around in every afternoon; nevertheless, when the wind is calm, even drones prove themselves to be a better flyers. Probably knowing this, the birds are often absent on those calm days. Yoon ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************