From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:00:16 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.4 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19A34909A for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFkpJ5016612 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0705E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 94554 Lines: 1956 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 16:20:18 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: CCD and Absconding Genes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dee Lusby wrote: Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:24:17 -0700 From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: CCD and Absconding Genes "- I run about 900 so-called by others. But my bees stopped swarming/absconding when I housel positioned by the way and haven't had a problem since. So something to unformity in putting in foundations I would think........" Question: why then do ferals swarm regularly when it is said that their naturally-built combs are housel-positioned? Barry Donovan, New Zealand. Visit our website at http://www.crop.cri.nz ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 07:12:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: The chief suspect Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Penn State has several "podcasts" on these topics including: The Role of Pesticides in Colony Collapse Disorder http://podcasts.psu.edu/node/319 They all can be found at: Honey Bees in Crisis http://podcasts.psu.edu/taxonomy/term/62 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:16:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Nectar storage lull during black locust bloom. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We are experiencing a beautiful black locust bloom here in southern NY and the weather has been great (no rain, very warm days, cool nights => perfect conditions for black locust nectar secretion). I expected to see a lot more bee traffic during this time. The hives are super strong with extra supers under the honey already put away. Plenty of room to expand. Has anyone experienced this? Any insights/thoughts? I read Walt Wright's (www.beesource.com/pov/wright/bcjan05.htm) piece on 'storage lull' in certain areas of the country during the black locust bloom. It appears that if the bee development is out of phase with the trees' development, the bees will take a break from collecting the locust crop. I'd like to induce them to change their mind! Waldemar Long Island, NY ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:38:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?D._Murrell?=" Subject: Re: CCD and Absconding Genes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Guys, It's been my observation that swarming is the top priority of every healthy, prosperous bee colony with enough resources and a good location. And it's not the unfortunate result of some colony imbalance, maladjustment or genetic deficiency. Most anti-swarming management practices actually produce some kind of imbalance or interference which hinders a colonies development and reduces the swarming propensity. Massive broodnest reorganization or Houseling might produce this effect during the season it's done, but I don't understand how it could produce the kind of interference necessary to truncate any swarming impulses after that? Regards Dennis ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:31:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: CCD and Absconding Genes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit D. Murrell wrote: >Most anti-swarming management practices actually produce some kind of >imbalance or interference which hinders a colonies development and reduces >the swarming propensity. Years ago, when I was a green young beginner, I went to work for an old timer who had quite a few hives. One of my first questions to him was "How do you control swarming?" He chuckled a bit, and said, "We don't control it at all." I thought that was odd at the time, and couldn't figure him out. But then I learned: the best and easiest way to keep bees from swarming is to put on a lot of comb. That's what he did, super 'em up. If they can get on with honey storage, it may not come into their heads to swarm. Of course, that was in Southern California, where the season is long and not so intense as it is in the North. I would say, it is much easier to keep bees from swarming there, than it is in the North. To cut down on swarming in the North, I would always pull brood in May. You probably need it to make splits, or you can add it to weak ones, if you are sure of not spreading disease around. You can pull a lot of brood and/or bees out of hive without hurting it, if you do it right. When I worked in the package industry I learned that a colony can produce almost twice as many bees in the spring if you take them away gradually (not all at once). It's like giving blood. A healthy person can spare quite a lot, if it isn't taken all at once. Another neat plan is to move the brood on top of the hive. It's like making a split but they get to keep the bees. You have to make sure they don't re-queen themselves up there, though. None of these swarm control measures is unnatural or will hurt the hives. Making a split is no different than what the bees do, only it's done according to the beekeeper's plan and not on some sunny spring afternoon when you're somewhere else. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 16:59:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science & "Sounds Like" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Brian Fredericksen wrote: > Who needs the endless studies if ethically > it sounds like a bad idea and we care about > pollinators. > I really disagree with the above statement. My wife "smocks". To me, the word "smock" just really sounds like some kind of perverted action. It actually produces quite beautiful clothing which is especially attractive on little girls. "Sounds like" is no reason, in my mind, to evaluate an idea. Mike in LA ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:04:09 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: CCD and Absconding Genes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > To cut down on swarming in the North, I would always pull brood in May. You > probably need it to make splits, or you can add it to weak ones, The simplest way to avoid swarming is by selecting against it. This is one of the most important traits you select for in order to have bees that are well suited to commercial beekeeping in the North. I'm on lat 60 N, have 2-3% swarming with zero swarm control and no spring splits. Surely North American queen producers actively breed against swarming? Non swarmin stock together with enough space (supers in time) saves a lot of time wasted otherwise running around looking for swarm cells or making splits. Instead of spring splits, hives can be divided in autumn and make up strong enough units to winter. Remember all beekeeping is local. This works well for me in a short intense season, not nessesarily in a longer season. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden http://beeman.se ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:23:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: CCD and Absconding Genes In-Reply-To: <465D13D9.8080209@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Remember all beekeeping is local. This works well for me in a short >intense season, not nessesarily in a longer season. I have to agree with P-O. I manage my bees the same way, with similar results. I'm on lat 45 N. I don't make splits in the spring, either. I find that selecting breeders who have never shown the inclination to swarm, timely reversing on the Dandelion flow, and adequate supering, takes care of most swarming. Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:23:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science & "Sounds Like" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Laws and regulations are decided upon many times based on values and not data or studies. We can be splitting hairs for the next 100 yrs on the latest chemical weaponary that is installed into plant materials or we can make a decision based on values like a simple concern for pollinators. Just look across the pond and the EU has rejected many forms of Industrial Farming like GMO's etc and this is not based on science but public opinion and values. IMO corporate interesst have too much control over US laws and regulations. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:31:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Interview of J. Pettis & E. Mussen & others Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/05/29/missing_bees/ Who killed the honeybees? A round table of experts answer all our pressing questions about the sudden death of the nation's bees. What they have to say has a bigger sting than we ever expected. By Kevin Berger May. 29, 2007 | The buzz about the alarming disappearance of bees has been all about people food. Honeybees pollinate one-third of the fruits, nuts and vegetables that end up in our homey kitchen baskets. If the tireless apian workers didn't fly from one flower to the next, depositing pollen grains so that fruit trees can bloom, America could well be asking where its next meal would come from. Last fall, the nation's beekeepers watched in horror as more than a quarter of their 2.4 million colonies collapsed, killing billions of nature's little fertilizers. But as a Salon round table discussion with bee experts revealed, the mass exodus of bees to the great hive in the sky forebodes a bigger story. The faltering dance between honeybees and trees is symptomatic of industrial disease. As the scientists outlined some of the biological agents behind "colony collapse disorder," and dismissed the ones that are not -- sorry, friends, the Rapture is out -- they sketched a picture of how we are forever altering the planet's delicate web of life. The scientists constituted a fascinating foursome, each with his own point of view. Jeffrey Pettis, research leader of the USDA's honeybee lab, told us the current collapse is one of the worst in history. Eric Mussen, of the Honey Bee Research Facility at the University of California at Davis, maintained that it may only be cyclical. Wayne Esaias, of the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, an amateur beekeeper, outlined his compelling views about the impact of climate change on bees. And John McDonald, a biologist, beekeeper and gentleman farmer in rural Pennsylvania, reminded us, if at times sardonically, of the poetry in agriculture. First things first. The Internet, as you know, loves a rumor. Are cellphones killing the bees? JEFFREY PETTIS: All the explanations that bees became disoriented by cellphone radiation, or this, that and the other thing -- there is zero evidence for any of it. All we know is we lost the worker population and they died away from the hive. What's unusual is they died over a short time period. Are they flying off to Nirvana? Who knows where they are? They are just dying away from the hive, which is normal. ERIC MUSSEN: It's important to look at what's normal. In the summer, bees go through a six-week life cycle: three inside the hive, three outside it as foragers. Then they die of old age. When bees are coming to the end of their life for whatever reason, they just fly off and don't come back. They fly out to die because flying out and dying is what they do. The question is, Why are we seeing bees with such a shortened life cycle? Well, now we're talking about winter bees. As you move into fall, the colony is supposed to be rearing bees that have a long life expectancy -- from about October to March of the next year. The problem is the winter bees aren't making it. Everything just sort of fell apart near the end of this summer and those bees that were supposed to live up to six months didn't come close. JOHN McDONALD: That cellphone thing is a major source of irritation to me. If it were true, I suspect about 10,000 people at Penn State would be lying on the street dead now. And yet you see them walking around and talking on cellphones. My son explained to me that cellphone radiation puts out a wavelength of about three inches. A honeybee is three-quarters of an inch long and so the bee is going to create virtually no shadow in that wavelength. That's one reason why I look askance at that theory. The other is where I live, in the middle of Appalachia, the bees are disappearing and there are virtually no cellphones. One scientist has said solving the bees' disappearance is like "CSI" for agriculture. What's the latest word from the lab? PETTIS: The latest word is we're working on a lot of different samples we've collected throughout the year. We're working under the idea that bees have suffered a one-two punch. The first is a primary stressor -- poor diet, mites, or low-level pesticide exposure. That puts them in a compromised or weak state, and then a secondary pathogen takes over. Because of how quickly the bees are dying, it seems most likely a pathogen would be involved. So we're looking for a secondary pathogen that might be unique or novel. Are pesticides a major culprit? MUSSEN: Perhaps 10 percent of commercial bee colonies in any given year are either severely damaged or die on contact with agricultural pesticides. But there's no reason to believe the exposure this year is any different from last year or any other year. John, you wrote a pretty strong opinion piece that fingered Bt crops, which have been genetically modified to control insect pests. Based on your experiences as a beekeeper, how did you come to that conclusion? McDONALD: My first collapse started last summer when a powerful colony, in a manner of a week, went downhill. The drone cone sort of cascaded down over the foundation like ice on a mountain. In another hive that was equally strong, the bees ended up lying dead on a mat that extended about six feet. That didn't happen with the other hives, which is indicative of agricultural poisoning. Also, the drones hung around until snowfall, which is unusual, indicating some kind of kind of behavioral dysfunction with the worker bees. I did a little research and found two studies about the Bt phenomenon. When you look at the action of Bt gene proteins taken up in the gut of insects, including bees, you find an enzyme that gobbles its way through any protein there and affects the insects. And bees are known to forage on corn flowers to get pollen to rear their young brood. I'm not saying Bt is the sole cause of collapse, only that I would like to have it investigated. Is there any evidence, Jeff or Eric, of Bt crops killing bees? MUSSEN: When Bt crops were being used in the fields to control lepidopteron insects, or butterflies, there were a significant number of studies run to try to determine whether or not incorporating Bt into the food of the adult bees, or the larvae, would hurt the bees. And the answer was no. PETTIS: I contributed to a recent study where we directly fed the Bt toxin to whole bee colonies and could demonstrate no effects on them. MUSSEN: There was a study, and perhaps this is the one John is referring to, that showed the active chemical in these Bt cultures is a protein crystal that develops in organisms. For four years in a row, an institution fed that protein to honeybees at 10 times the amount that they would ever encounter in the field if they were feeding on pollen. In three of the four years, they saw nothing out of the ordinary. In the fourth year, a parasite showed up, and the bees that had been consuming the protein appeared to suffer more. The experiment didn't say the Bt protein gave the bees the "disappearing" disease, or that it killed all of them; it just said the bees that came in contact with the crops appeared to be more negatively affected by the parasite. Can you tell us about your experiences with colony collapse, Wayne, and your studies to understand wider ecological causes? WAYNE ESAIAS: Sure. I'm a small beekeeper. I have about 15 colonies and have experienced some loss. I realize there are many symptoms involved. Still, there are one or two I'm puzzled about. I keep records of when my bees collect pollen and nectar in my backyard. I weigh the hive and I have a time series that goes back to 1992. What I've seen over the course of that time is due to local warming: The pollen and nectar flow come almost a month earlier than they did in the 1970s. This is coincident with the urbanization of the D.C.-Baltimore area, causing temperatures to rise. I'm also using data from NASA satellites to address how global warming or environmental change might be impacting our honeybee populations, and even the spread of the African honeybee. We see plants blooming at different times of the year, and that's why the nectar flows are so much earlier now. I need to underscore that I have no evidence that global warming is a key player in colony collapse disorder. But it might be a contributor, and changes like this might be upping the stress level of our bee populations. One new study suggested the collapse might be the result of a rare spore called Nosema ceranae. MUSSEN: If you get enough Nosema ceranae, yes, a colony will die. If you get enough viruses, the colony will die. If you get enough mites, the colony will die. If you get exposure to insecticides, the colony will die. So all these things that we are looking at are capable of doing in a colony. There's no doubt about it. So could a true lack of food. Literally, you could starve the bees to death. Beekeepers have accidentally done that many times. What you're going to find is that in most cases there is not going to be one factor that did them in; it's going to be a combination. This is the perfect storm for honeybees. Millions of bees in California alone are trucked around from town to town to be used as pollinators on farms. That's got to be awfully stressful on them, right? MUSSEN: Yes, it's a stress. But commercial beekeepers have been moving substantial numbers of colonies on trucks for decades. I'm not convinced that they're being moved more, or that it beats them up any worse that it did ten years ago. California beekeepers have told me that in a course of moving the colonies around in the back of the truck, they tend to lose 10 percent of the queens with each move. Some feel it's that high. But that doesn't meant that 10 percent of your bee colonies died; many of them will come back and you will still have a colony. One researcher has said that the competition for food among the millions of bees used to pollinate almond trees in California could, essentially, be working them to death. Do you agree? MUSSEN: Almond trees aren't the problem. It's what happens after the bees are done with the trees and are brought back to the holding yards. In late fall, there is basically no food -- after the almonds -- so the bees have to fend for themselves. Besides eucalyptus trees, there's a bunch of weeds that the bees can feed on. They don't get heavy and fat but they've got some food available. PETTIS: Beekeepers are always looking for what they call "good pasture," places they can put the bees and not have to feed the bees themselves. Florida has an abundant and diverse set of floral plants, so the bees are not suffering. What's interesting is that there's a number of government control programs for invasive weeds. Beekeepers love invasive weeds. Most produce a lot of nectar for the bees. So there's been competition in some cities over getting rid of the noxious weeds and keeping them for beekeepers. But California is unusual in that beekeepers are doing what we are starting to call "feedlot beekeeping," where we are having to provide resources because there is just not enough food out there. And this is just to meet the almond-pollination demands. MUSSEN: The real problem in California is that we've only had half a normal rainfall this year. So after the almonds, when the bees went out to find other things, there was barely anything there. What was really interesting was some of the bees looked like they were well on their way to establishing good colonies. They looked like they could live on the stored almonds they had picked up in the late summer and fall. But this time they collapsed. So that's the question: Why? And what's your answer? MUSSEN: I'm probably the strongest advocate in the United States suggesting that malnutrition was the underlying thing that set up our bees to be whacked by everything else researchers are looking at. Honeybees rely on pollen for protein, vitamins, fats and minerals. That's where their major "health food" comes from. If we are having a typical year, and the rains come, there aren't too many places in the United States where the bees cannot find their mix of pollens to meet their dietary needs and get them through a normal life cycle. The question is, What happens when things don't go like that? Well, you get this blast of hot temperature, which is about the time the flower buds are forming and the pollen grains are beginning to form. What does that do? You get sterile pollen. A beekeeper could look into the hive and say, "I've got all kinds of pollen in there and the bees disappeared." Well, right, you've got pollen grains, but do they have any nutrition in them? Anything that interferes with the availability of food, or the quality of the food, is going to be detrimental to the bees. They don't have much of an immune system, so the only way that they can resist being infected by a lot of things is when they have their innate resistance up, and the best resistance is when they're best fed. So my feeling is that their nutrition just wasn't what it was supposed to be, and they were susceptible when they should have been resistant. I think something happened at the end of last year in many places in the temperate climate around the world, not just here, and fouled up the bees' food supply. Unless somebody tells me differently, I'm blaming it on the weather. ESAIAS: One of the things that I've noticed in my short little time series in my backyard is that I could pick out every El Niņo and La Niņa effect. These are normal. These short-term climate changes are normal, and our bee population and our natural pollinator population have seen them, and they can probably handle them. What is disturbing is the long-term trend. Maybe years of severe climate impact are going to be more frequent and it's going to be really difficult to pick them out as causative factors unless we have a coherent way of studying each one. Could the bees be dying because once they are sent out to do their work as pollinators on farms, they can't find their way back to their colonies? Sometimes it seems like there are more mini-malls in America than flowers, and maybe the bees can't navigate urban land patterns. MUSSEN: Land patterns would be the least of their problems. When a honeybee transitions from an in-hive bee to an outside bee, it flies back and forth around the hive for a few minutes. Then it backs off and goes further away. In the process, it is taking a bunch of snapshots. That's how it's going to navigate from that time on -- through those snapshots. It's going to learn the roads, the trees, the houses, and the part of the hive with the entrance it uses. Bees use those landmarks to determine where they are and where they are going. That's another reason why cellphone communication is not going to rattle them unless it completely fries their brains so they can't see anymore. But when you put them into the environment where they have been flying, they'll follow their landmarks home. So I don't think we have to worry about that. McDONALD: I'm not sure. I've been thinking about the size of the current soybean and corn crop, which I think impacts on this. When we fly over the fields in a jet, we look down and think we see some pastoral idyll. But the truth of the matter is, we may be looking at a slow-motion ecological train wreck. I made some calculations, and the total soybean and corn crop, including genetically modified seeds, is in a neighborhood of 102 million acres. After a little basic arithmetic, that would be a strip of crops running from Pennsylvania to the Rocky Mountains. It would be 100 miles wide, and if you were flying over in a plane, it would take you four hours. When you look at that thing at that magnitude of disruption, you can't help but suspect that maybe there's more to the picture than meets the eye, when you consider the absolute scale of things, compared with natural environments where you still have weeds and flowers. ESAIAS: Land use has changed drastically in the past 100 years. There's no question that urbanization is increasing at a fantastic rate. I was thinking, as I was listening to John, that a lot of these concerns apply to our native pollinators -- the things that live in the hedge rows and the woods -- much more so than to our managed bee colonies, which are generally cared for by beekeepers. Crops are a significant source of pollen and nectar for our bees and our pollinators, and there is no doubt in my mind that the flora quality is changing, even if we can't say whether it's for the better or worse just now. McDONALD: You know, I was looking at my flowering trees the other day. I have a beautiful weeping crabapple, and my grandson, while standing under the tree, which was just heavy with blossoms, said spontaneously, "Last year that tree was humming with bees." Now there was one bumblebee on it. The small nascent bees and other little bee types are absolutely missing. Near that tree I've got acres of dandelions and you cannot find one of the native pollinators. And it's not just the honeybees; it's other pollinators like moths and butterflies. In many ways, their loss is probably more alarming or indicative of a deep problem. PETTIS: We rely on honeybees for agriculture because we can move them in large numbers. And we know how to manage them. But the National Academy of Sciences recently published a study that showed that all pollinators -- which rely on a diversity of flowers -- are in decline. Whether it's urbanization, habitat fragmentation, or an increase in agricultural land use, something is severely impacting the native pollinators. Colony collapse disorder was reported by commercial beekeepers. Is it also happening to bees in the wild? PETTIS: There's very few places where we actually monitor the feral population. I know of a group in Texas that was following some wild populations of bees, and a Cornell researcher has found a group around Ithaca, New York. But it's often hard to sample those bees. We know that wild bee populations were decimated by parasitic varroa mites over time, and they've rebounded, probably due to natural selection for natural resistance. But I'm not familiar with data coming in from feral populations. McDONALD: A few years ago, in a very remote part of the state, I found thriving bee populations that I assumed were feral. To help them along, I set up bait boxes and put in anti-mite strips. I slipped them in seed oil and made little puddles so the bees had to walk through the oil in this experiment I called "remote medication." But as the summer went on, the bees collapsed in spite of my attempts to help them. The feral population is just getting so hard hit that I suspect it's virtually gone by now. Are scientists looking at how the climate affects the bees' favorite flowers and food sources? ESAIAS: That's a good question. Most of the nectar sources in Maryland, my state, come from trees -- tulip poplar, black locus, and holly trees. There has been a great deal of research on plants and increased CO2 and warming. I tried to find out how temperatures would affect blooming dates, and there is virtually no information in the literature on how temperature affects blooming dates of our trees and how increased CO2 concentrations affect blooming dates. There's lots of research that says it makes plants grow faster, and some of them, like poison ivy, become more toxic. But ecologists in general have not paid attention to the timing of blooming and nectar availability and quality of pollen. McDONALD: That is so true. The only number that I go on is that an apple tree will bloom after 40 days in 40-degree temperatures. That boils down that simple formula. ESAIAS: As a kind of a climatologist, I'm getting paid to study the impact of potential global warming scenarios on our ecology. There's a lot of research being done on carbon cycling, but without information about when the plants bloom and how the quality of the flora changes, we are in a poor position to asses the effect of changes in temperature and rainfall on our ecosystems. Can bees survive climate changes? MUSSEN: I can tell you that beekeepers take their honeybees north to the upper Canadian border and all the way down to the equator. If they're warm, they cool themselves by evaporating water, and if they're cold, they heat themselves by sucking up a little bit of extra carbohydrate and rattling their muscles. So they're great adapters? MUSSEN: They're going to handle it. The honeybees are not the ones I'm concerned about. I think Wayne will back me up on this: Historians have said that thousands of years ago, there were some pretty nasty fluctuations in the earth's weather. And through this period of time, we became and continue to be very good farmers. But for whatever reason, we are beginning to kind of move into a cycle where we are going to find more extremes than we used to have. The droughts may be hotter and longer, the storms and floods may be more severe. Things aren't going to be so nice in the future. But again, I think the honeybees are more likely to handle that as long as they've got some food available to them. But with some of these other pollinators, which we rely upon to keep the environment going for us, well, if they get knocked around too much by the weather, then that's going to be really consequential. What do you think the disappearance of the bees teaches us about ecology? ESAIAS: If I can go back to what Eric was saying, I too don't doubt the survivability of the honeybee. On average, it's going to do fine. But what we are dealing with now is a series of local effects. That doesn't mean we aren't going to see an average global increase of temperature in the future, if you believe the predictions. What does it tell us about our native pollinators and ecology? That's such an exceedingly complex question that I don't know. It just puts me in awe of earth's complexity. If you ask scientists to predict what global warming will do to an ecosystem, and they don't throw up their hands and say, "Beats me," then it shows we have a lot of work to do to understand the complexity and responses of all of these insect and plant interactions, when they occur, and will they get out of phase. McDONALD: I think there is a cautionary tale here. Look at the progenitors of the maize, the corn which was developed in Mexico. It took a long time for environmental researchers to find the original plant because as the maize became dependent upon cultivation, a lot of those genes from the wild corn had died off. There used to be 1,000 small meat-packing plants, and if a problem arose at one, it was not particularly important to the other 999. But now with all these together as one vast factory, any problem that arises has instant implications everywhere. We're at the mercy of assembly-line farming and high-speed distribution, and maybe no accountability as far as the quality of the food. But I don't know how you do it. How do you get more people to go back to smaller farms? It's practically utopian to bring that up anymore. It's amazing that an esoteric subject like beekeeping has erupted in the mass media. Do you think that's been beneficial? ESAIAS: I think the media coverage is wonderful. I think we are facing a series of problems like this, problems that are environmental in nature, and this has been a real eye-opener for me as to how poorly prepared this country and countries around the world are in taking note of how climate change or global change will impact our ecosystems. Humanity is affecting our ecosystems, and it's very complex to determine whether this is due to environmental change or some disease. You can see now that it is very difficult to pull these things apart. McDONALD: The media has done a very good job of telling all sides. But the problem is, how do you motivate people to change the way they are? Where I live, I try to live pretty low on the food chain and avoid the temptation of most of the things that people have. People are just incredible consumers and runners of fuel and buyers of gadgets. How do you change that? It's as if there's an ethical or a moral blank spot there. I don't like to preach, but it's pretty obvious: When you're killing the corn belt by growing fuel to run SUVs, there's a very bad disconnect somewhere along the line. MUSSEN: Bees are a necessary part of our food production. If we don't grow our own cherries and apples, can't we just buy them somewhere else? The answer is yes. But do we want to become as dependent on foreign nations for our food as we are dependent on them for fuel? I would certainly hope the answer is no. I believe that the amount of food we exported to other countries last year was less than the amount of food we imported for our consumption. We use to be the breadbasket of the world. Now we're just one of the breadbaskets. McDONALD: The basket case. MUSSEN: [Laughs.] So to keep our industry healthy, we certainly have to keep our pollinators healthy. In the end, are we the people the ultimate cause of the bees' collapse? PETTIS: We're the ultimate cause in that we've changed the planet to suit our needs. We're running it to suit our needs and not the benefit of all the organisms around us. Honeybees aren't totally domesticated, but we have tried to domesticate them. We've tried to make bees more gentle and make more honey. In enhancing certain traits, we make the bees more susceptible to other things. Do you think the bees will be back? PETTIS: I do. I don't think we've gone that far in domesticating them. The bee population is very diverse and can withstand an onslaught of different things -- including beekeepers. Research assistance by Jonathan Vanian. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 07:41:30 -0500 Reply-To: Tim Tucker Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Tucker Subject: Nectar storage lull during black locust bloom. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To Waldemar and all, There is no doubt that chasing the black locust bloom can be frustrating at best. I have been currently examining this same problem in the last few years since having a huge locust bloom in 2005. I hate to answer a question with a question but.....What was your weather like during 2006 and was it a year of abundant rainfall and ample growth or one of poor amounts of water and stress? There is no question that there is much we don't know about the production of nectar in plants and I don't know of a single phloemologist or nectarologist and if there were any there would be much room for dissagreement on what causes good years and bad. While having over 100 books and many years collection of ABJ and Gleanings there is really very little information on this subject. I would refer you to chapter 10 of "The Hive and the Honey Bee" entitled The Production of Nectar and Pollen which may contain some of the answers. Most who have Nut or Fruit bearing trees and shrubs know that our production this year is very heavily dependent upon last years conditions of ample water and stem production yielding heavy leaf set, maximizing the production and storage of carbohydrate for next years actual bloom. On page 409 there is reference to D.U. Girnik who in 1958 used radioactive isotopes to determine that some of the nectar secreted by Linden trees (Tilia spp.) came from stored carbohydrate. During years of drought such as the last two in our area trees will drop a percentage of foliage and at times completely defoliate to conserve moisture. This defoliation results in a decrease in tip growth due to a decrease i! n sugar production and storage. Trees and shrubs will have less capacity to bloom ( less bloom buds) as a result. While not an expert in the matter, it would be my opinion that black locust bloom is highly dependent upon the last year and perhaps the last several years environmental conditions and not just available moisture, sunlight and temperature levels currently. Here in southeast Kansas we have extreme conditions and only find fairly dependable Black Locust bloom in areas where there is a water table. I have 100 hives located two counties (75 miles) from my home where three major rivers exit Kansas and a shallow water table exists most of the time. It is a great pecan production area and yields black locust flows fairly consistently. In 2005 I had 40 - 50 hives there and in one week they all packed out the deep honey super that I had on them and many filled much of the space in the brood chambers as well. I drove back home and got another truck load of supers and put them on but after returning the week later found that while some were still blooming the flow had ended. That smell that was so strong the week before and had been almost intoxicating was gone. In reading Walt Wrights article, I would only have a couple of questions; 1. Do all of the hives in an apiary experience this "storage lull" at precisely the same time? I know if I have 20 hives in an out apiary buildup among them will vary widely. When there's a black locust bloom on, it seems that most healthy hives store nectar or they don't. It would seem more logical in my mind to search for the answer in the cycle of the nectar source than the cycle of the bee colony. 2. Why when I requeen every August, excepting those prolific queens in 15 - 20% of colonies do I see the storage lull in some and not others. I have no doubt that this phenomenon exists, but I really have some doubts as to the correlation to the lack of a storage of black locust nectar. This is an area we all need to know more on. Hope this has been a bit of help in answering your question. Tim Tucker ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:59:24 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Nectar storage lull during black locust bloom. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you, Tim. >>There is no doubt that chasing the black locust bloom can be frustrating at best. Frustrating and interesting at the same time. :) >>What was your weather like during 2006 and was it a year of abundant rainfall and ample growth or one of poor amounts of water and stress? The 2006 here was somewhat average although it got very dry in August (this year I'll pay attention and see if locust leaves drop). The winter was very mild with a cold snap in March that set plant development back. The August drought may have affected the locust carbohydrate stores [although the blossoms are quite spectacular with strong fragance]. >>Most who have Nut or Fruit bearing trees and shrubs know that our production this year is very heavily dependent upon last years conditions... Except for peaches most of my trees set fewer fruit than the year before. Perhaps this corrolates to the locust. I was looking for grey locust pollen on the bees but they are mostly coming back with bright orange pollen. I should explain that the bee traffic during the locust bloom has been quite varied and the hives are gaining weight although not at the rate that would follow the opening of the healthy looking blossoms >>In reading Walt Wrights article, I would only have a couple of questions; 1. Do all of the hives in an apiary experience this "storage lull" at precisely the same time? In his other articles he mentions the swarm prep and cut-off typically occur at the same time in a given area with a few days variation from hive to hive. If the nectar storage lull is real, it can result in a significant hive-to-hive difference since locust flows last about 10 days. >>It would seem more logical in my mind to search for the answer in the cycle of the nectar source than the cycle of the bee colony. I am starting to lean this way, too. I also read that warm/hot weather makes the locust petals softer making it easier for the bee to breach the flower to get to the nectar. I wonder if the Caucasian bees' longer tongues would allow them to collect more locust honey? A fellow beekeeper introduced Caucasian queens into his operation for their reputed gentleness several years ago and he gets great locust crops from year to year. Perhaps I should try his queens in my area. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:16:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: Bee eating bird In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >For more on this, see: http://apis.ifas.ufl.edu/letters/aix5_30.htm Malcolm T. Sanford Professor Emeritus, University of Florida http://beeactor.vze.com 352-336-9744 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 17:13:50 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Pollen trapping timing. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I bought a pollen trap and plan to collect some pollen for personal use. I have a few questions: 1. What are timing recommendations for using the traps? 2. Does one reduce nectar collection by installing traps during major honey flows and, therefore, should the traps be used when the flow dips? 3. What plant sources yield the most nitritious pollen? I know trapping should interrupted every few days so colonies can replenish their nest pollen reserves. Waldemar Long Island, NY ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:21:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science & "Sounds Like" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Fredericksen wrote: > We can be splitting hairs for the next 100 yrs on the > latest chemical weaponary that is installed into plant > materials or we can make a decision based on values > like a simple concern for pollinators. Brian, is the assumption that pollinators are in serious or substantial decline due to industrialized farming practices real or imagined? Could you direct an investigative news reporter to any industrialized farming region or area of your home state of Minnesota where pollinators aren't abundant anymore? Consider the intense Imidacloprid sunflower growing areas in northwestern MN. Could you show the reporter first hand how there is a deminished abundance of pollinators over there? Ditto in regards to the intense GMO corn and soybean region of southwestern MN? Could you direct the reporter to any city or town in MN where pollinators are not abundant anymore? Could you direct the reporter to a GMO crop growing area in MN where flowering weeds are not setting seed as much as they used to due to a reduced abundance of pollinators? Paul Cherubini ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:10:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science & "Sounds Like" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 30 May 2007 10:21:46 -0700, Paul Cherubini wrote: >Brian, is the assumption that pollinators are in serious >or substantial decline due to industrialized farming >practices real or imagined? like what habitat and food sources would pollinators find in a sea of corn and soybean where the roadside ditches are sprayed with herbicide so the farmers can bale it? hey its called a bee wasteland. National Academy of Sciences Report titled Status of Pollinators in North America (2006) http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309102898 please read this and tell me i'm blowing smoke... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 16:25:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: Nectar storage lull during black locust bloom. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the sugar content of the black locust is not to their liking or much less attractive or harder to work than the nectar bloom they were working just previous. Also, maybe something else is blooming at same time that is preferred over black locust but not a heavy flow. I have a fabulous tulip poplar bloom in my immediate area nearly every year (the trees literally drip tulip poplar nectar in a light wind), but my bees ignore it in favor of holly which blooms at roughly the same time...at least that is what the pollen analysis and very light color of the honey indicates. Jerry Wallace ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Waldemar's pollen trapping questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I put my traps on 'now' and take them off in mid-October. Unless we are going away for more than a week I never shut them off, and do not see any indication of weakened hives or lower honey stores when comparing hives where pollen is trapped to other hives. Whoever said '3 days off and 3 days on' is truly ignorant as that person could not have ever collected pollen, let alone have done the kind of scientific work that Seeley did to show that bees will just collect more pollen if you trap some away. Anyone who has ever collected pollen is well aware of the 3-7 day period of confusion when traps are installed. To suggest that every three days the traps should be turned off and on is to perpetuate the confusion all season. (If stress is a contributor to CCD, following the 3-day advice is sure to bring it on!) Almond pollen may be the most nutritious, at around 45% protien, but lots of pollens come in at 30%-35%. Avoid corn pollen! Hope this helps, Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 21:26:29 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: The chief suspect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Role of Pesticides in Colony Collapse Disorder > http://podcasts.psu.edu/node/319 Uh, ummm... wait a sec here... He said "synergistic", didn't he? He said that a systemic neonicotinoid and a fungicide combine to make something more toxic than would be expected of either one alone. How's that work? Has anyone ever seen any sort of science to support this highly creative viewpoint? ...and his final word on the subject was: "Yes - pesticide contamination certainly could be the cause of CCD" Has anyone ever seen any sort of science to support this stance? In both cases, I sure haven't. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 22:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: Nectar storage lull during black locust bloom. Comments: To: Jerry Wallace Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Even in Oklahoma, Robinia pseudo-acacia is a hit and miss operation for the following reasons: 1) They take a breather at some years; they do not bloom every year (Flowering is costly investment for the trees, obviously). 2) When they do bloom, the weather is too cold for the bees to forage around here. 3) Typically they bloom around April 19th around Shawnee, OK, which often signals the start of nectar flow; however, they started to flower about a week earlier this year, possibly due to wet early-spring we had. 4) Again, around here it is difficult to find large patches of them, making it cost-ineffective to relocate bees for a few stands, here and there. 5) As a result, it is difficult to isolate pure black locust honey, as such, by the time I pull mine around mid-July. My bees may have consumed all of it for early brood-building. Nevertheless, when the above factors work favorably for the bees, I have no doubt, the honey should command a high price; even the aroma of its bloom is intoxicating. Frankly I have been so far unable to gather black locust honey, singularly. Yoon ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 23:27:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: CCD and Bayer Crop Science & "Sounds Like" In-Reply-To: <465DB2AA.9CA@saber.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul, Are you suggesting or stating that natural pollinators have NOT declined under the influence and in areas of Industrialised farming practices ? If not, what are the quantitive base levels of pollinator population you would use to support such a position? Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 00:15:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Non Robbing attitude in CCD cases In-Reply-To: <000201c7a322$b79417e0$0d01000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To investigators of CCD or any other person having ability to comment: It has been mentioned that frames from CCD dead outs containing what I presume is honey, pollen and nectar are not robbed out by neighbouring or surviving honey bee colonies. In such cases, are the bees that are still left in the vicinity foraging normally, willing to take up syrup from other sources ? "Foraging normally", by which I mean compared to bees in areas not showing symptoms of CCD, with validation that normal is normal. Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:45:42 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Waldemar's pollen trapping questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you, Lloyd. Would you have any input on whether or not pollen traps negatively affect honey production? I would think not but wanted to verify. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 08:44:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen collection and honey production MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Waldemar asks whether trapping pollen has any negative effect on honey production. Based on my observations and those of other beekeepers who collect pollen on a large scale, hives with traps do not have honey production that is different from those without traps. Seeley confirms that in his discussion of how bees collect nectar and pollen on the same trip...when they need pollen. (If the hive does not need pollen (except in the fall, bees do not collect pollen to store for long periods), the bees collect only nectar.) That said, many supercedure queens are 'lost' when pollen traps are on hives. The queens can get out of the hive to mate, but often cannot get back in and are 'lost'. The beekeeper quickly learns when a hive has gone queenless, as pollen collection dramatically decreases (presumbaly, because of a lack of brood to feed) and, upon investigation of the brood nest she will find a lack of eggs and young brood. Unless these hives can be immediately restocked with a nuc, honey production will dramatically decrease. Pollen traps, like any other tool, vary greatly in their ability to collect clean pollen, keep it dry during thunderstorms, let drones (and virgin queens) escape, etc. In general, the least expensive are the 'cheapest' and those costing more do so because they excel at their task. Buyer beware. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:07:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim, You wrote:" Has anyone ever seen any sort of science to support this highly creative viewpoint?" Well, since you said "any sort of science," I felt obliged to add the following. Testing the effect of Bt maize pollen in the field In the first year the bee colonies happened to be infested with parasites (microsporidia). This infestation led to a reduction in the number of bees and subsequently to reduced broods in the Bt-fed colonies as well as in the colonies fed on Bt-toxin-free pollen. The trial was therefore discontinued at an early stage. This effect was significantly more marked in the Bt-fed colonies. (The significant differences indicate an interaction of toxin and pathogen on the epithelial cells of the honeybee intestine. The underlying mechanism which causes this effect is unknown.) It was not possible to investigate the influence of microsporidia further since the attempt to breed them failed, making targeted infection of bee colonies impossible. http://www.gmo-safety.eu/en/safety_science/68.docu.html The study was done over several years (2001-2004) by Hans-Hinrich Kaatz at the U of Jena, Germany. Please don't make the mistake of thinking I'm defending the study. He fed large amounts of pollen from BT corn to bees and watched for effects. He had a serendipitous finding that bees with microsporidia (read Nosema) were more heavily affected. Speculation was that the combination affected the lining of the bees' guts. The study was not followed, at least in part because the amounts of BT pollen fed were so high as to have little relationship to the smaller amounts a healthy colony could collect. Still, this is exactly the sort of thing our investigators expect to find right now. This is just something I "stumbled" on while doing the intense, concentrated, months-long research for my Apr ABJ article on CCD. :-) Dick Marron ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:02:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Griggs Mike Subject: Re: The chief suspect Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Synergism: Has anyone ever seen any sort of science to support this highly creative viewpoint? YES! Actually there is a whole category of statistics that is used to elucidate when the sum of factors is larger than the sum of the components often used in insecticide mix studies. I posted a while back that there have been studies on insect pathogenic fungi that conclude that imidacloprids have been shown to cause a synergistic response with certain fungi (Beauvaria bassiana). See Wraight S.P. et al. I would suggested that iimidacloprid might increase the detrimental effects of Nosema ( now considered a fungus) on the host. The mechanism is not yet determined but the effect is being exploited to enhance the fungicide effect. The idea is to use a little imidacloprid and thus less fungus to maintain high kills of target insects. Overall it decreases the cost by decreasing the amount of product used. Decreased amounts of this insecticide in combination with the fungus has a higher effect than the sum of the products used individually--basically use less of both to reduce the pest population to below economic threshold. MIke ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:48:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Fw: [BEE-L] screened bottom boards and capping honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seem to have had a problem with outgoing emails - re-sending: > Eric Brown wrote: >> I'm starting to wonder what effect my screened bottom boards are having >> on >> how long it takes the bees to cap my honey. > > I completed the conversion of all my hives to open mesh at the end of last > year. I have not noticed any effect on capping honey at all. > > I have some colonies that stand on the floors (see > http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/Newsletters/September2005.htm) > on the ground, where the growth of vegetation around the hive reduces the > airflow underneath, and some that are up on stands and so have plenty of > airflow. Again no difference. > > Best wishes > > Peter Edwards > beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk > www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ > ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:48:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Fw: [BEE-L] A.m.m &small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seem to have had a problem with outgoing emails - re-sending > Dee wrote: >> Actually yes, altitude is relative to latitiude. > > Could you explain how they are related? > >>You just have to go further for latitude to see the differences >> break out which many cannot physically do transportation >> wise. > > Sorry, I do not understand that either! > > Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:54:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: The chief suspect In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Penn State has several "podcasts" on these topics > > The theme of all of them is "it might be" and there are a variety of things they say that might be the cause of CCD, but Imidacloprid is not the "chief suspect." It has to stand in line even at Penn State. Maybe the CCD group is further along than it seems, but there seems to be as much guessing as to the cause within that disparate group as there is on this list. I question why the investigation was not kept narrow and isolated to the first reports in the Mid-West. It now seems to have been diluted, especially since everyone who loses bees now thinks they have CCD and whatever group investigates only does so with those closest to them. So you have widely separated groups looking at what may be a problem which is local in nature and not universally applicable. It sounds like trying to define an elephant by confining each group to only one part and not the whole. Add to that, I would not look at any operation which had verified high mite loads before reporting CCD and who was told they would lose their colonies that year- and did. But one part of the CCD group is doing just that. Anything that comes from that group is suspect. CCD can only claim 5% of the total losses in the US, if you go by the most quoted and apparently most accurate, one-quarter of the 25% of losses this year. So we had 20% loss, mostly because of mites, and a guess that the rest is CCD. Mites are, were, and will be the problem, not CCD. CCD has happened before and will happen again, and we still will not know specifically why. I fear this will be true because of the dilution of the effort. Too many things will end up as suspect with no real defined cause. I hope I am wrong. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:03:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Non Robbing attitude in CCD cases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter: You said/asked: frames from CCD dead outs ... are not robbed out, ...are the bees that are still left in the vicinity foraging normally, willing to take up syrup from other sources ? Simple answer - yes. Although, one of the early signs of CCD seems to be that affected colonies will not take feed - syrup or pollen substitute. I've seen this lack of robbing in FL, CA, and had a long talk with a TX beekeeper who saw the same. CCD apiaries usually have some apparently normal colonies, and many locations had other unaffected apiaries within 200-400 yards. Deadouts within the unaffected beeyards were being robbed, while deadouts in the nearby CCD beeyard were ignored. Eventually - 2-3 weeks, the robbers and pests show up. CCD deadouts and CCD colonies with very weak populations (queen and some young bees) were not being robbed and there were virtually no hive beetles or wax moths. Yet, the best colonies in the same beeyards had hive beetles - lots of them in some of the FL yards. In Texas, tops of hives were removed, honey frames pulled up and left throughout the yard like so many flags in a field. After 1 week, no robbing (this one was described to me by the beekeeper). In CA, piles of boxes with 30-40 # of honey sat untouched, while deadouts in a stockpile yard 400 yards away were robbed clean. After a month, the piles of boxes were robbed. Late in the spring, CCD deadouts that I saw in CA were not robbed UNTIL the boxes were opened, inspected. Even then, robbing was sluggish. So, there's some seasonal differences -- they will be robbed in prime robbing season - but you've almost got to start the process, even if the deadouts have been sitting for some time. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 05:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The chief suspect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >..and his final word on the subject was: "Yes - pesticide contamination certainly could be the cause of CCD" Now is a busy time of year for me and unable to spend a great deal of time in internet discussion but I will go on record as saying CCD *could* directly be related to pesticide contamination. The focus among the beekeeping community seems to be turning in the pesticide contamination direction. Beekeepers are looking: Pesticide treated seed keeps coming up. Seems there are at least three chemicals used. Which *seems* to explain why beekeepers in a certain area are effected and not in another area as different chemical seed treatments were used. Beekeepers are getting their ducks in a row. Things are moving fast in beekeeping circles effected. Discussion is taking place between the national organizations and at least one large chemical company. Maybe things can be worked out partly thanks to all the news media coverage. I for one had a piece in the Kansas City Star last week. We all need to keep public opinion on our side. *If* (big if) beekeepers can put a finger on the possible source of the pesticide contamination and we have public opinion on our side. Best hope for now: Perhaps we can get the product pulled for long enough to see if the situation gets better(maybe not in all areas but at least in certain areas but too late for this year). I hope (sincerely) that pesticide contamination from systemic seed treatment is not the source of CCD. We have enough industry problems right now without a growing problem. Pesticide treated side use is expanding. The beekeeping community has not the resources to go "head to head' with the chemical company *without* public opinion on our side. Right now *in my opinion* the beekeeping community is simply a thorn in the chemical giants side but as the roar of public opinion gets louder the thorn will need dealt with *in my opinion*. I think the heads of the national organizations hope to solve the problem *if pesticide contamination* through diplomatic channels instead of a long and costly court battle. For those (and there are people) which believe that pesticide contamination *could not possibly be connected* (no way! Not a chance!) and believe the published (and paid for) research by certain chemical companies go back to sleep. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:42:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: The real issue with pollination In-Reply-To: <465E4EBC.8070602@mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you want to make a case for natural pollinators, it is not with their lack. Mankind exists on a surprisingly small number of cultivated crops and the larger problem is that these crops have become more uniform with time. Add to that, most all do not need pollinators but are either wind pollinated or do-it-themselves. Where insect pollinators come in is to cause diversity. They do not operate by the rules and can cause diversity in outcome. That is what "nature" wants since, with diversity comes survival. One plant may be susceptible to a specific disease while another of the same species will not, so the species survives. With mono-culture and no pollinators to add diversity, you invite disease to spread unchecked. So it is not the number of pollinators that is the real issue, but the diversity you get from natural pollinators. Unfortunately, there are trade-offs. With diversity you can get smaller yields and more plants susceptible to disease, pollination fees, and non-uniform ripening, just the opposite of what you want as a farmer. There is a reason for mono-culture. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:05:09 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: The chief suspect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I would suggested that imidacloprid might increase the detrimental > effects of Nosema (now considered a fungus) on the host. ...and who decided to call Nosema a "fungus"? What was the reasoning here? When did this happen? How is it similar to a fungus? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:12:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: The real issue with pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Truesdell wrote: > With mono-culture and no pollinators to > add diversity, you invite disease to spread unchecked. > > So it is not the number of pollinators that is the real issue, but the > diversity you get from natural pollinators. What I am having trouble understanding is the claim that natural pollinators aren't abundant and fairly diverse even in and around our most intensive monocultures. Case in point: Even though nearly all of Iowa, and southern Minnesota look like this from the air (tens of thousands of square miles of corn and soybean monocultures): http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/squ.jpg on the ground, butterfly and bee pollinators are abundant around the edges of those same monocultures: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/gilc.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/gilb.jpg http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/hiacjpg.jpg http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/jackb.jpg So I'm having trouble understanding what is big problem (let alone "crisis") with monocultures and pollinators? Have there been cases, in the past 50 years, where crop yields in the USA have suffered serious yield loses over large areas due to a shortage of pollinators? Or just occassional set backs (like the current CCD issue) that were not severe enough to cause serious yield loses (e.g. California has a bumper crop of almonds this year despite the CCD). Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:18:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: The chief suspect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The pulling the product trial has been done in France - it was banned. Best I can tell, little or no improvement in bees because of the ban. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:48:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The chief suspect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jerry & All, "The pulling the product trial has been done in France - it was banned. Best I can tell, little or no improvement in bees because of the ban." Jerry Certainly Bayer's story. With help from Canadian French speaking beekeepers and others ( Australia) I have heard a much different story. I do find it quite puzzling why some French beekeepers are not willing to step forward with what they are telling me and others. Think about the French beekeepers said they lost 120,000 hives at the time. No such losses reported now. We have got French beekeepers on the BEE_L list. Are you still loosing 120,000 hives are year unexplained? If afraid to post your name send to Aaron or another list member and we will post using our email address. Jerry makes a good point! Did the stoppage stop the French die off problem? My sources says yes for the unexplained. Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:24:09 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: The real issue with pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Hi Paul > What I am having trouble understanding is the claim > that natural pollinators aren't abundant and fairly > diverse even in and around our most intensive > monocultures. The four photos of pollinators which you gave show only the migrant butterflies painted ladies and monarchs. They aren't particularly effective pollinators and may not have been raised in the locality. A healthy ecosystem would deliver a variety of solitary and social bees and wasps, as well as a range of pollinating flies, beetles, moths and butterflies. Perhaps there were other pollinators there too that didn't make it into your photographs. There are bushes in the background which indicate non-cultivated land that could nurture a range of pollinators. You asked about (US) studies that quantify 'serious yield losses over large areas'. I can't give you that, but the Canadian study below shows economic effects linked with pollinators from nearby uncultivated land. all the best Gavin Title: Pollinators provide economic incentive to preserve natural land in agroecosystems. Author(s): Morandin, L. A.; Winston, M. L. Source: Agriculture, Ecosystems & Environment 116 (3/4) : 289-292 2006 Language: English Abstract: Natural habitats are considered inherently indispensable to the global economy by conservationists, but few natural ecosystems afford direct and quantifiable economic benefits. Quantification of natural land value can provide compelling evidence favoring preservation over development. Wild bees are important pollinators of many crop plants, and natural patches in agroecosystems enhance pollinator services and crop yield. Bee abundance was greatest in canola fields that had more uncultivated land within 750 m of field edges and seed set was greater in fields with higher bee abundance. A cost-benefit model that estimates profit in canola agroecosystems with different proportions of uncultivated land is presented. Yield and profit could be maximized with 30% of land uncultivated within 750 m of field edges. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:28:10 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Pollen collection and honey production Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>That said, many supercedure queens are 'lost' when pollen traps are on hives. The queens can get out of the hive to mate, but often cannot get back in and are 'lost'. I wonder if pollen traps on hives prevent (or at least delay) swarm issue from hives as well. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 14:56:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: The real issue with pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Paul, The pictures are impressive, but I am not completely reassured that there is not a reduction in pollinator diversity (not to mention other biodiversity) in monoculture environments, by some pictures of a couple of species of migratory butterflies on the edges of vast fields of corn and soy beans. I wouldn't be so ready to assume that because other life has been discovered on a planet where previously only corn and soy beans were thought to exist, that this is an example of a perfectly healthy and diverse section of the biosphere. Of course if you look at it strictly through the lense of the benefits of producing huge quantities of corn and soy beans cheaply, then you might see it as an over all healthy environment, but I suggest that a complete and objective view of all the factors involved might result in a less favorable opinion of the current state of corn and soy bean monoculture as it relates to the environment. Books have been written explaining why we should be concerned if not alarmed by a significant reduction in biodiversity on the planet. This probably isn't the place to go into all that, but I would hope that you would at least familiarize yourself with the reasoning that is involved if you haven't already. Steve Noble ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:40:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen traps and swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Waldemar wonders if using pollen traps delays or prevents swarming. A properly constructed pollen trap allows drones to exit. While I have seen more than one design that does not allow for drones to exit, I am certain the result is a dying mass of decomposing drones. UGH! That same exit will allow the quees to swarm. I do not believe a properly designed pollen trap will have any effect, good or bad, on swarming. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************