From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:59:15 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2461A49094 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFhrq2016524 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0706B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 155149 Lines: 3680 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 22:20:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Josh Markle Subject: Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I want to know what the typical migration is for a commercial pollinator. Is there some schedule they follow according to what's in bloom? I also would like to know if anyone has recent and credible documentation of what pollination and honey are worth in the US. And, finally, I was hoping for a pointer to some information and some anecdotal info on wax vs. plastic frames (I am guessing it is a perennial topic). A tall order. Thanks for your help on this. Josh ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 11:46:11 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>And, finally, I was hoping for a pointer to some information and some anecdotal info on wax vs. plastic frames (I am guessing it is a perennial topic). It was recently reported that Tom Seeley's experiment showed that bees started with wax and plastic foundation produces more honey with the wax foundation. It remains to be evaluated if there is a difference in honey production bet. colonies on drawn plastic frames vs. drawn wax frames. I've only used plastic frames in my hives because they are easy for the beekeeper. The bees draw out waxed plastic fairly well although one can 'see' a delay in getting started and a strong flow is needed to keep them going. I once gave several colonies uncoated plastic frames and they did everything but draw them out. They 'hate' the plastic and will only draw it out when pushed very hard. Time and again they will try to build parallel comb between the plastic frames. It must be very frustrating for them to work on uncoated plastic. I said bees 'hate' plastic but it's probably more that they don't 'see' the cell embossing. Besides the cell base geometry there probably also needs to be wax present for them to 'see' it. There may also be another factor in plastic vs. wax. There seems to be evidence that bees vibrate the comb as part of their communication. The plastic is likely to have a different vibratory response resulting perhaps in distorted communication... Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 17:10:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit waldig wrote: >I said bees 'hate' plastic but it's probably more that they >don't 'see' the cell embossing. Besides the cell base geometry there >probably also needs to be wax present for them to 'see' it. I attended one of Tom Seeley's presentations on this subject. It is a topic I know a little about, having worked for five years making wax foundation, up to 1000 pounds a day. That was back in the 1970s when Pierce first came out with the one piece plastic frames/foundations. Over the years I have watched people succeed and fail with these products. In my opinion, the reason bees do better initially with wax foundation is very simple: there is enough wax in the sheet of foundation for them to stretch and build the entire comb, especially in the medium and heavy weight foundation. For the plastic to be made into combs, they bees have to produce wax, which they don't do unless there is a decent honey flow underway. After all, the comb is built to put the honey in. No honey, no need for comb. The main thing with the plastics is that you get a comb that is practically indestructible in the honey extractor. That's why large scale commercial operators love them. The fact that bees are somewhat reluctant to draw them means: don't put them on unless you have a honey flow. In the old days beekeepers looked at a warehouse full of drawn comb as one of their chief assets. Now, with all the talk of CCD and the notion that combs may harbor viruses or pesticide residues, all those old combs aren't looking so good. pb Maybe the pendulum will swing the other way and more people will use wax foundation again. There are a lot of benefits to doing so. Really the only drawback I can see is how tender they are at first. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 21:51:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Peter said: I attended one of Tom Seeley's presentations on this subject. I also attended a Seeley presentation on the subject at the joint meeting of the KHPA & MSBA in Overland Park, Kansas. Tom expressed concern that dividing a brood nest with many sheets of plastic *might* not be the ideal brood nest situation in winter. His concern was based on the winter cluster and possibly other unknown things. I use mostly plastic foundation but can see how taking a winter brood nest and dividing the nest by plastic sheets ( center of each comb) might have an effect on wintering. Once the cluster is reduced to not covering the tops of frames then each frame is separate from the next. I have seen comb in which the bees have actually chewed through the center to get stored from the other side of the comb. I would think heat transfer through wax would be better than a thick piece of plastic. I also can see that maybe a cluster can maintain a better winter temp on wax than on plastic. It is my opinion though that a strong hive has little trouble in winter on plastic but wonder about how plastic foundation comb effects the small swarm. Plastic foundation in wood frame is still the most popular frame for most commercial beekeepers. Despite what the sellers of plastic frames say they are STILL breaking. Then they are junk. I get plastic frames in buy outs but prefer wooden frames myself. Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 23:05:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >In my opinion, the reason bees do better initially with wax foundation is >very simple: there is enough wax in the sheet of foundation for them to >stretch and build the entire comb, especially in the medium and heavy weight >foundation. Peter, Is there a good reference that bees ’stretch’ foundation to create cells? I know that this is the common belief by many beekeepers, but I have never seen any evidence supporting this assumption. I had used black foundation at one time, and the cells on the foundation were clearly built of whitish wax and not any shade of gray as one might expect to see from stretching foundation. If bees are ‘stretching foundation’, perhaps the beekeepers need to feed packages and the bees need for festooning would have become obsolete. Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Derry, PA “Bees Gone Wild Apiaries” FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 23:49:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Using bleach for nosema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A friend in Chile has been experimenting with using bleach (sodium = hypochlorite) in sugar syrup to control nosema. He would like to know = if anyone else has heard of this. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 09:04:28 -0500 Reply-To: D Adams Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: D Adams Subject: Re: Using bleach for nosema Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - I have used it for years (after being told by others )that they put it in sryup to help prevent fermenting, at a rate of a cup to about 200 gallons. I don't think this is anywhere strong enough for nosema,or any ccd problems as we lost about 70% last winter here in florida to ccd. At about 1 to 100 it will kill most bacteria as a cleaner. I plan to try using it soon during feeding for the next few months of spliting. Bees in florida seem to have liking for swimming pools as a water source,which tells me that it is not ofensive to them. I'm think it has some merit worth looking at in general. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 11:18:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Using bleach for nosema In-Reply-To: <003e01c7aa62$55aa75a0$ad25fea9@jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy: They still trying bleach for various ailments. Been doing that for years as even back in the 1980s it was put in syrups for foul, and chalk brood and other ailments. What makes them think it will work this time for longhaul? Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 20:21:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I as many have found plastic foundation a pain. The all plastic ones split in the extractor and are flimsy. I got heavy into it some years ago and have slowly relegated them to the garbage bin. Even with a good flow on the bees didn't draw them out completely as the wax foundation A fellow told me to alternate them with wax frames and claimed the bees had no choice but to work on them. Plastic is great for drone brood in controlling varroa and the surface can be scraped clean after it's capped and then you start all over again. What puzzles me is that if this stuff is used by some in the brood chambers and the person discovers foulbrood, then are they putting this stuff in the garbage or are they as the law up here anyways requires, burning the frames and what about that pollution from the plastic? Walter Ontario ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 19:38:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Joe & All, Joe asked: >I know that this is the common belief by many beekeepers, but I have never seen any evidence supporting this assumption. Some things have never been tested but those of us which have had foundation made with a larger amount of wax have seen with our own eyes the bees draw twice as quick as foundation with the normal wax thickness. I will say in a strong honey flow in a strong hive the difference is minimal but their still is a difference. Most producers of foundation will run a thicker wax if requested. Most want a 100 pound minimum. Common sense tells us when bees need wax in a hurry they use existing wax in the hive wherever they can find it. Sometimes the bees will strip the foundation from a comb honey super. Why not simply produce the wax? Many of us feel makers of plastic foundation do not put enough wax on their foundation. However in a strong flow I have had unwaxed plastic drawn very fast. In my opinion the bees do not respond to feeding syrup like they do to a honey flow when it comes to wax production. Something I have always wondered about. However: My opinion is ( and results of my own testing) that beekeepers feed to thick a syrup which slows the bees down. The syrup mixture needed for the bees to produce wax as fast as a honey flow needs to be as thin as nectar in my opinion. Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 19:44:19 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Walter, > What puzzles me is that if this stuff is used by some in the brood > chambers > and the person discovers foulbrood, then are they putting this stuff in > the > garbage or are they as the law up here anyways requires, > burning the frames and what about that pollution from the plastic? > Discovering foulbrood or not disposing of it in any manor to me is an environmental hazard. Only one of many reasons I think that plastic foundation is an abomination. Keith Malone, AK ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 00:36:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob said, "My opinion is ( and results of my own testing) that beekeepers feed to thick a syrup which slows the bees down. The syrup mixture needed for the bees to produce wax as fast as a honey flow needs to be as thin as nectar in my opinion." Bob, How thin are we talking here? 1 to 1 or even thinner? Is there a diference between trying to get comb drawn in the fall and in the spring? Steve Noble ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:59:07 +0100 Reply-To: pencaemawr@f2s.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Burgess Subject: Re: Information In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Zimmermann wrote: > What puzzles me is that if this stuff is used by some in the brood chambers > and the person discovers foulbrood, then are they putting this stuff in the > garbage or are they as the law up here anyways requires, > burning the frames and what about that pollution from the plastic? > > The same question for polystyrene hives. John Burgess, Wales ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:38:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Using bleach for nosema Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit randy oliver wrote: > using bleach (sodium hypochlorite) in sugar syrup to control nosema. I looked into the amount and type of pesticides used in the US, after reading that 5 billion pounds of pesticides are used in the USA annually. It turns out that this is true, since they include any substance that is used to control any sort of pest. Over half of the 5 billion pounds is chlorine or hypochlorite products. Presumably most of this is used to chlorinate water. After this, it includes wood preservatives (800 million pounds) and herbicides (500 Million pounds. Insecticides/miticides account for 100 million. Of course, the fact that "only" 100 million pounds of insecticides are used misses the point that these chemicals are much more toxic than chlorinated water, etc. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:58:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I wrote: > It is a topic I know a little about, having worked for five years making wax foundation, up to 1000 pounds a day. In my opinion ... Mr. Waggle wrote: > Is there a good reference that bees ’stretch’ foundation to create cells? Reply: Yes. Me. You mentioned that you used black foundation. I have no idea where you got it, but I used to make colored foundation at the Knorr's for people to roll into candles. This was the thinnest grade, eight sheets to the pound standard size. Most people used medium brood (7 sheets/lb.) or heavy brood (5.5 sheets/pound) in their beehives. (Thin white for comb honey) After putting foundation on a hive, you can clearly see that they remove wax from the bases of the cells, since they detect an excess of wax there. We would prefer it if they would leave it there as this makes a tougher midrib! That's why Dadant began putting plastic a sheet between two sheets of wax to make their foundation, and later hard plastic was used. I doubt that a "scientific study" has been done on this. I hope not, because it really doesn't matter much. (Why spend the money?) Anyway, beekeeper experience is more important than a hundred studies, in the practical aspects of beekeeping. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:16:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi All! I would like to hear any stories about wonderful or horrible honeys you may have encountered in your beekeeping careers! You can write to me at peterlborst (at) gmail.com, or reply to this message -- Peter L. Borst Ithaca, NY USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:52:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/06/2007 14:20:27 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: stories about wonderful or horrible honeys The cappings that I place in a filter bag, run through my Mother's spin drier, and then through a fine mesh strainer has the appearance of sump oil but tastes scrummy. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:49:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr. Borst Wrote: >After putting foundation on a hive, you can clearly see that they remove wax >from the bases of the cells, since they detect an excess of wax there. Removing bits of wax for the construction of comb probably easily seen, but the addition of compounds and flakes of wax produced or compounds gathered by the bees for the construction of comb perhaps not so easily seen. The idea that sufficient materials exist in foundation for comb construction AND the assumption that bees stretch the foundation to create the entire network of comb I had question with. “… Anyway, beekeeper >experience is more important than a hundred studies, in the practical >aspects of beekeeping.” Peter, I love the above quote! Good addition for the archives! Perhaps a contradiction to what many small cell, organic and feral bee advocates experience on this list. Bet regardless, I agree with you in that facts given from experience are indeed as good as any study. IMO the fundamental ingredient by which all good discussion lists are created. Reminds me of a wonderful quote by one of the beekeeping greats. (Name dropping dropped from the quote as often requested) ;) “Improved Bee Culture is our end and aim, and we trust no one will hesitate to give any fact from experience.” (-.-.----) Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Derry, PA “Bees Gone Wild Apiaries” FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:05:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: CCD in the news: LAT article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-adsci-bees10jun10,0,672658.story?coll=la-news- science The most in depth article I've seen on CCD for some time. It contains the now standard overblown statements on the scope of the problem, like "The puzzling phenomenon, known as Colony Collapse Disorder, or CCD, has been reported in 35 states, five Canadian provinces and several European countries." Earth to all journalists come in over... have any of you ever talked to any bee researchers or government Apiary people in the EU or Canada? I'm amazed that this myth continues to live on based on a single bogus CNN report a couple of months ago. Aside from that glaring piece of misinformation the article also contains some more informed background info I have not seen in print yet. "One of the unusual features of the disorder is that the predators of abandoned beehives, such as hive beetles and wax moths, refuse to venture into infected hives for weeks or longer. "It's as if there is something repellent or toxic about the colony," said Hayes, the Florida inspector. To test this idea, VanEngelsdorp and Pettis set up 200 beehive boxes with new, healthy bees from Australia and placed them in the care of Hackenberg. Fifty of the hives were irradiated to kill potential pathogens. Fifty were fumigated with concentrated acetic acid, a hive cleanser commonly used in Canada. Fifty were filled with honey frames that had been taken from Hackenberg's colonies before the collapse, and the last 50 were hives that had been abandoned that winter. When VanEngelsdorp visited the colonies at the beginning of May, bees in the untouched hive were clearly struggling, filling only about a quarter of a frame. Bees living on the reused honeycomb were alive but not thriving. A hive that had been fumigated with acetic acid was better. When he popped open an irradiated hive, bees were crawling everywhere. "This does imply there is something biological," he said" ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:37:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Steve & All, Bob, How thin are we talking here? 1 to 1 or even thinner? thinner. Thin enough to ferment ( thin as nectar) if not used right away. The syrup (usually fed a gallon at a time) needs removed from feeder within 24 hours. Timing is important. Beekeeping is all about timing! > Is there a diference between trying to get comb drawn in the fall and in the spring? Need to draw comb (as pointed out by Peter B.) and the temperature effects comb drawing. Both are of equal concern. Need ( nectar flow or feeding) effecting the most and temp effecting the speed of drawing. I am getting ready to get some new comb drawn this week in supers which I have been waiting to get drawn for three years. All conditions are right in my opinion. 1. strong hives 2.strong flow 3. temps in high 80's F. ( above 90F. I see less comb drawn due to the number of bees being used to circulate air in the hive). Some crowding is needed so checks of progress needs done every five to seven days . Also you need to make sure the queen has plenty of room to lay in brood nest. I have got friends in the Dakota's and Peace River district of Canada which get a honey production average I can only dream about without any effort at all. In my area I have to work at getting a *big* honey crop. I do believe intense management can double your crop many times. Staying ahead of the bees is work but once they plug those supers they STOP or plug the brood nest! Stacking supers ( My friend George Imirie recommended method) can help swarming but will never replace proper management of supers *if* wanting a maximum crop. We have had two drought years and my surplus of backup honey for my markets is gone. For the next six weeks my main concern is producing honey. Water white honey! Stacking supers allows the weaker hive to simply chimney up the center causing honey house congestion. Also putting a certain amount of supers on limits the hive which would produce maybe twice the amount of honey those supers would hold. When I was larger and had plenty of honey in the warehouse I used the Imirie method but lost many supers of honey I could have had, had many of my best hives swarm due to bees plugging the brood nest with nectar and had many supers brought into the honey processing area with only the middle frames containing honey. The Aebi brothers still have got the best book on producing record amount of honey from a hive. I also believe they *may* still hold the "Guinness book of records" record for *documented* honey production from a single hive. I throughout the years may have had a hive outproduce *randomly* the Guinness record hive but it is quite a feat to call in the Guinness people at the start and say this hive is going to produce over 400 pounds of honey and then set the record. The record proves in my opinion that management plays a part in record honey crops UNLESS you live in an area well known for consistent record crops. Even then what could the record be with intense management. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:58:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Information Comments: cc: "Peter L. Borst" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ---- "Peter L. Borst" wrote: > Mr. Waggle wrote: > > Is there a good reference that bees ’stretch’ foundation to create cells? > > Reply: > Yes. Me. You mentioned that you used black foundation. I have no idea where > you got it, but I used to make colored foundation at the Knorr's for people > to roll into candles. I would think that black wax when "pulled" would be gray/off white a it gets thinner. Having said that Jim F has occasionally suggest to people who doubt that bees "draw foundation out" use a sheet of the colored stuff and see what they get. Has anyone done this with some of the more vibrant colors? Keith ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:41:12 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: CCD in the news: LAT article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ...is it me, or is it a little puzzling to be referring to a test of 50 hives in each condition, but only reporting on one of each? deknow ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:22:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >the cappings that I place in a filter bag, run through my Mother's spin drier, and then through a fine mesh strainer has the appearance of sump oil but tastes scrummy. I could not find scrummy in the dictionary. About all I know about scrummy is the word rymes with crummy. I have got a market for "sump oil" colored honey ( exactly as comes from the hive) but a very small market. In our area we produce (if not careful) a "sump oil" type honey with a slight smell. The honey has a decent flavor but the smell hurts sales. I sold a load to a bakery once and later had to take the honey back, The bakery said all their pecan rolls and honey bread had the smell. The floral source is what we call "smart weed" (heartsease). Most packers will not buy honey tainted with "smart weed" but the honey is an excellent honey for bees to winter on. Best I have ever found. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:42:15 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?QXJpIFNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Fw: [BEE-L] Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The desinfection of AFB spores in plastic frames is a problem. I see only two solutions: 1. Irradiation ( not easily available in all places) 2. Boiling in lye - this is not possible with pierco, but there has been frames that can take boiling + pressure wash without damage available from Israel in the past. My friend here in Finland makes them for sale. More expensive because of different plastic, but in my opinion worth the expense. Price without tax about 1,8 euro. The desinfection of polystyrene hives after AFB is not a problem. Danes H. Hansen and C. Brödsgaard made a study already in 1990's which showed that the four method of box desinfection were equally effective. These were: 1. Burning with flame 2 Pressure wash with cold water 3. Hand wash with a brush and diswasher washing liquid 4. Spraying scraped boxes with 2 % Virkon S ( a trademark of a desinfection chemical) Number 3 and 4 are ok for polystyrene boxes. The interesting fact was that only 75 - 80 % of spores in boxes died in all categories, but this was enough because they did a follow up by putting the treated boxes on beehives, no one of the hives got a desease within a year. . Ari Seppälä Finland ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:37:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Northern Basswood honey with a water clear appearance and a slight green tinge tastes like my first kiss from a girl when I was 14 years old. The flavor is slightly minty, sharp and very floral. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:28:27 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Hi Bob It's that 'divided by a common language' thing again. Scrummy = scrumptious = 'extremely pleasing to the sense of taste' While we're on the topic of linguistic differences, we use 'heartsease' for a pansy or violet (Viola sp.), a plant with no interest for bees. I believe that your 'Smartweed' is our 'Water pepper' or 'Persicaria', Polygonum hydropiper. I don't think that we get honey from it, but we do get a dark honey from Japanese Knotweed, a large and invasive relative. all the best Gavin ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:59:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Josh Markle Subject: Bees and Interest Rates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is an article in yesterday's Globe and Mail business page reporting a BMO analyst saying CCD will be partly responsible for a two-point hike in interest rates. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070609.MKECOLAB09/TPStory/Business A good breakdown of pollination estimates by crop too. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:36:01 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD in the news: LAT article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Aside from that glaring piece of misinformation... It appears that the mainstream press can't ever get the basic facts straight. I've yet to see a completely error-free and hype-free article. Even "Science" and the "New York Times" screwed up. > the article also contains some more informed background > info I have not seen in print yet. > > "One of the unusual features of the disorder is that the > predators of abandoned beehives, such as hive beetles and > wax moths, refuse to venture into infected hives for weeks or longer... > ...Fifty of the hives were irradiated..." Well shucks, you should sign up for Bee Culture's "Catch The Buzz" e-mail news alert service, where I described this testing scheme back on 4/26/07: http://home.ezezine.com/1636/1636-2007.04.26.08.42.archive.html I also mentioned this curious aspect of CCD in an article published in the June edition of Bee Culture, and released online on Bee Culture's "CCD" web page in late April: http://www.beeculture.com/content/ColonyCollapseDisorderPDFs/6%20Trackin g%20A%20Serial%20Killer%20-%20Jim%20Fischer.pdf So, there is an effort to put accurate information out there, not that any of these so-called "journalists" can be accused of doing their homework or fact-checking. The main page for the Bee Culture CCD info is here: http://www.beeculture.com/content/ColonyCollapseDisorder.cfm The archive page of "Catch The Buzz" alerts is here: http://home.ezezine.com/1636/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:14:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/06/2007 19:13:04 GMT Standard Time, bba@DISCOVERYNET.COM writes: I could not find scrummy in the dictionary. Short for scrumptious. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:49:11 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Fredericksen wrote: > Northern Basswood honey...The flavor is slightly minty, sharp and very > floral. We get this in the UK, where the trees are known as Lime. Parts of the city of Birmingham are particularly noted for it, as Lime trees were planted along the streets probably 80-100 years ago. Wonderful for beekeepers, but a nightmare for car owners! Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:47:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Using bleach for nosema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by alaskaheavenlyhoney@HOTMAIL.COM = to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of = previously posted material. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: joe carson [mailto:alaskaheavenlyhoney@hotmail.com] Sent: Sat 2007.06.09 14:36 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: RE: [BEE-L] Using bleach for nosema Hello Randy from Alaska.I have been using two tablespoons per 5 gallons = of syrup along with Honey - B - Healthy and I add a vitamin/mineral = supplement in as well. Also, I am now the U S distributor for Nozevit = from Croatia which is a natural herbal liquid for the treatment of = Nosema. I just returned from Central Europe and investigated the = results with many beekeepers and the consensus was unanimous. It works, = is organic, no toxicity, ease of use, inexpensive per dosage, and works! = It has been used and tested in Croatia, Serbia and the neighboring = countries for the past 5 years with excellent results. You use 15 drops = per feeding 2X in spring and 2X in fall. You can use it anytime as = there is no toxicity or chemical buildup. With the Yugoslavian war = there was little to no chemicals available for the bee keepers to use = for this problem which started the testing of Nozevit as a natural = alternative. Now with the tight EU regs, this has proven to be exactly = what they where looking for. Dr. Joe Carson ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:44:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Bees and Interest Rates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a BMO analyst saying CCD will be partly responsible for a two-point hike in interest rates. It was declared here in Ontario that CCD did not exist Soon the oil companies will be in on this one also ( you guys did mention something about sump oil ) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:49:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > I would like to hear any stories about wonderful or horrible honeys >you may have encountered in your beekeeping careers! I had a pretty strange honey one year...1986. When I paid off my yard rentals, the farmer asked my how the year was. I told him terrible...except for the yard on his property. Those bees made supers and supers of honey. But, it was the color of milk. Farmer gets big grin. "Why, I told Mother that those bees would be the fattest around." Bells and whistles go off in my head.... "Yep, follow me," says the farmer. We go out behinfd the barn, and there is a mountain of cardboard barrels. There were bees everywhere. The stuff was a recovered sugar solution, from Wyeth Pharmeceuticals. Actually, it was used as the coating on pills. Sucrose, Titanium Dioxode, Microcrystalline Cellulose, and dyes. Wonderful. When I unknowingly extracted it, it got mixed into several hundred pails of honey. Called Wyeth. They didn't want to know about it...the farmer had signed a release. I couldn't talk to anyone in charge...just the secretary, and a lower caste engineer. Played my trump...My Dad had retired as the Asst. Tax manager of American Home...owner of Wyeth. I used to caddy for THE foursome when I was a kid...President, Treasurer, Dad, and a fourthe from Montreal. Only the Treasurer was still alive. I called him, and explained my problem. I only wanted the contaminated honey to be paid for. Next day, General Manager of Wyeth calls me. "How can I help, Mr Palmer?" Two weeks later, I had a check...paid in full for the honey. MIke ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:39:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Daniel Dempsey Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >I would like to hear any stories about wonderful or horrible honeys >you may have encountered in your beekeeping careers! e Peter; Prune Honey Bad aftertaste not fit for human consumption, nice thing you only get it once in a while. Dan Dempsey Red Bluff, Ca ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:06:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: Bees and Interest Rates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Josh Markle wrote: > > Here is an article in yesterday's Globe and Mail business page reporting > a BMO analyst saying CCD will be partly responsible for a two-point hike > in interest rates. http://tinyurl.com/yvtvly > A good breakdown of pollination estimates by crop too. Notice the article fails to provide projected 2007 yields of crops that depend on bee pollination. So the public could be misled into believing there could be widespread yield shortfalls that could result in higher food prices. The truth, in many cases, could be exactly the opposite as is currently the case with California almonds: Almond growers expect record crop that cuts what they're paid: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/beec.jpg Growers earlier worries about their bees' survival have been replaced by crop oversupply concerns: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/beeb.jpg An Avalanche of Almonds: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/beea.jpg Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anthony Norman Morgan Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys In-Reply-To: A<7.0.1.0.1.20070610203548.03c61cf8@together.netA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I would like to hear any stories about wonderful or horrible honeys > you may have encountered in your beekeeping careers! My favourite honey - Thyme honey from southern Crete. We obtained a strange but wonderful honey some 4/5 years back as follows - We kept a hive in the garden as a sort of watchdog to protect our fruit trees from marauding younsters The year was one when plums were very prolific. We did not manage to pick many before they were attacked by wasps - damaging the fruit and making approach to the trees upleasant at best and downright dangerous at worst. The bees then made use of the wasp damaged fruit and upon opening the hive we found the frames and interior (wood) to be bright yellow and the whole smelt deliciously of plums. The honey when extracted later was bright yellow with an amazing plummy taste! Cheers Tony ----------------------------------------- Mid-Norway Lat 63 deg 26 N. Long 10 deg 45 E Alt. 55m Apis mellifera carnica ----------------------------------------- ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:01:25 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anthony Norman Morgan Subject: Terribly wrong in nature, follow-up In-Reply-To: A<39054CB003928048849A2A885188FC690221E8DF@EX-VS01.ad.hist.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It just seems to be one of those years, fruit blossom has been prolific (particularly apple), the dandelions have flowered like a sea of yellow (in quite distinct limited areas however),after the dandelion clocks have appeared we now have similar sea-of-yellow areas of buttercups and the Queen Anne's Lace (Cow Parsley) is making many verges whiter than they ever are except in winter. See: http://media.edt.hist.no/amor/personal/bits.htm For a few pictures. Cheers Tony ----------------------------------------- Mid-Norway Lat 63 deg 26 N. Long 10 deg 45 E Alt. 55m Apis mellifera carnica ----------------------------------------- ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:09:25 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Information In-Reply-To: <9363875.46581181491128106.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web01-z01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Keith & all > I would think that black wax when "pulled" would be gray/off white a it gets thinner. The colour gets quite dissipated as the wax is re-worked. The coloured wax probably gets diluted with freshly produced wax as well, leaving only a trace of the original coloured wax, in addition, mouthfuls of wax will be taken and used elsewhere. My experiment was with queen cells, but I think the results illustrate the foundation drawing point in the same way. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:19:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Information In-Reply-To: <466D0335.7070105@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all My experiment was with queen cells, > but I think the results illustrate the foundation drawing point in the > same way. Forgot to add the link... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/redqccups.html Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:16:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: More fuzzy logic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline More fuzzy logic from the news. Now we are being told that the movement of bees from region to region disrupts their natural cycle. Never mind that the movement of bees from region to region has been going on for centuries. Never mind that bees in Mediterranean climates have no trouble realizing it is spring in January, when the honey and pollen begins to flow, and the northern bees realize it *isn't* spring in April, when it's snowing and 30F. The first quote is from a "news" website, so it's no surprise they don't get it right; but the second one is from an entomologist -- who ought to know better. > In the case of California's almonds, the largest managed pollination event in the world, the growing season occurs in February, well before local hives have suitably increased their populations to handle the pollination load. As a result, the region is increasingly dependent on the importation of hives from warmer climates. The same goes for apple crops in New York, Washington and Michigan, as well as blueberries in Maine. It's entirely possible that the honeybees may have already been stretched to the breaking point, as far as environmental and chemical stressors are concerned. In fact, it's safe to say that the nation's honeybees, already a tireless lot, are totally exhausted from work. http://www.alternet.org/environment/53491/ * * * > Paul Jackson, of the Department of Entomology at Texas A&M, said the problem may be related to improper use of the honey bees rather than a natural phenomenon. He said the almond crop, primarily grown in California, requires 1.2 million beehives to pollinate the state's half-million acre production. As a result, beekeepers are paid to import honey bees in the winter months, but the natural pollination period occurs in the spring. "Bees are usually dormant in the winter," Jackson said. "They're going against Mother Nature.There should be limits on planting almonds." www.texarkanagazette.com -- Peter L. Borst Ithaca, NY USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:36:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Fredericksen wrote: > Northern Basswood honey with a water clear appearance and a slight green tinge tastes like my first > kiss from a girl when I was 14 years old. Ha. Now *that* would make good advertising copy. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 04:55:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Study Outlines Therapeutic Applications of Bee Venom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Study Outlines Therapeutic Applications of Bee Venom Therapeutic Application of Anti-Arthritis, Pain-Releasing, and Anti-Cancer Effects of Bee Venom and its Constituent Compounds Pharmacology & Therapeutics, 5/8/2007 SEE: http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/06/study-outlines-therapeutic-applications.html Abstract: Bee venom (BV) therapy (BVT), the therapeutic application of BV, has been used in traditional medicine to treat diseases, such as arthritis, rheumatism, pain, cancerous tumors, and skin diseases. BV contains a variety of peptides, including melittin, apamin, adolapin, the mast-cell-degranulating (MCD) peptide, enzymes (i.e., phospholipase [PL] A2), biologically active amines (i.e., histamine and epinephrine), and nonpeptide components which have a variety of pharmaceutical properties... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:55:12 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Aebi brothers. [Was: Information] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob, >>The Aebi brothers still have got the best book on producing record amount of honey from a hive. I also believe they *may* still hold the "Guinness book of records" record... Would you please describe their methods? Thanks, Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:07:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The best honey I have produced was identified as pure holly honey, very light with great taste and wonderful floral fragrance that I have never seen duplicated with other honeys produced here. Almost without fail, everyone who has eaten it rates it equal to the best honey they have ever tried. Most unusual was several supers of honey identified as kudzu, almost purple with aftertaste of grape flavor notes. The bees also made an unusual honey in 2003 when it rained nearly every day all spring. When it stopped raining at end of May the bees gathered an extremely dark honey with a very sharp almost pungent taste resembling molasses that they have never again produced and also has never gone to sugar. I suspect it was honeydew. I like it, but most people expecting the standard honey taste turn up their nose at this one. Jerry Wallace Atlanta. GA ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:05:47 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mike, >Those bees made supers and supers of honey. But, it was the color of milk. How did you dispose of this stuff? Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:55:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard A Cartwright Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hate to address a question with another question, but does anyone have any information on honey production (quantity and/or quality) from Autumn olive (Elaeagnus umbellata)? We had a very good bloom from abundant plants on Long Island, NY this Spring. I saw bees working the flowers, but not in the numbers I would have expected from such a prolific bloom. Black locust flow was on right after the Autumn olives, so I'm thinking supers should be a mix of both. Any thoughts? Dick Cartwright Stony Brook, NY ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:32:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Keith Benson wrote: >...Jim F has occasionally suggest to people who doubt that bees "draw foundation out" use a sheet of the colored stuff and see what they get.> Might be interesting, but subject to judgment. I would think the results from that experiment would certainly not be acceptable to anyone in the scientific community. If you had a good scale, perhaps weighing a piece of foundation before and after cells built would more decisive. Joe Waggle Derry, PA “Bees Gone Wild Apiaries” FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:02:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Looking for Historical Information - 'Bees in America' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Working on a timeline project for honeybee spreading in the Americas. Looking for quoted historical references to the earliest dates honeybees were noticed in these states: ‘Including source‘. I'm stumped! ;) I have quoted references for the spread of honeybees in all states except for these states: Idaho Rhoda Island West Virginia Maine North Dakota Delaware Hawaii Maryland Minnesota The quoted material can be a historical reference to a swarm of bees, bee tree, transporting of bees, Bee hunters, Indians harvesting from bee trees, or trading post records of honey trade being made etc. Any referenced quote that will indicate the arrival of honeybees in these states, as long as a source, author, pg # for the information can be provided. Please send to: naturebee@yahoo.com Thanks! Joe Waggle Derry, PA “Bees Gone Wild Apiaries” FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:48:46 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I would think that black wax when "pulled" would be > gray/off white a it gets thinner. > Having said that Jim F has occasionally suggest to people who > doubt that bees "draw foundation out" use a sheet of the colored > stuff and see what they get. > Has anyone done this with some of the more vibrant colors? Hi. Jim F here, and yes, I've done it with the stuff Dadant sells for rolling those tacky-looking candles. It was years ago, and I think the color was orange. I can't find the photos I took, but the resulting 10-frame-width comb was orange nearly all the way out to the cell edges. Yes, the overall comb color was a fainter/lighter hue that the untouched foundation, and sure, the bees certainly do add some of their own wax flakes to the comb. I pulled the frame out before they were done, as I did not want to find out what the dye in the wax would do to brood, nectar, and such. But this is a game that any number of people can play. That said, I like wax-coated plastic foundation for honey supers, and the higher your maximum extractor RPM, the more you like it. Newton's Second Law hates wax comb filled with honey. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:22:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys In-Reply-To: <20070611.100547.24168.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > How did you dispose of this stuff? Wyeth took it, when they paid me. I guess they incinerated it. The stuff was being fed to cattle. Too bad they never told the farmer to keep the drums closed, so local bees wouldn't get into it. Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:20:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denise Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [BEE-L] Interesting Honeys Best honey I ever tasted was from some Canadian beekeepers who brought it to a beekeeping class. It was white and creamy and excellent tasting -Borage honey. Denise Garoutte Raymond, WA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:18:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Interesting honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a little honey someone sent me from WA. It's Fireweed honey. This weed grows from the ashes of a forest fire, in the mountains. It has absolutely no aftertaste. Dick Marron ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:34:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Northern Basswood honey tastes like my first >kiss from a girl when I was 14 years old. That was priceless! There is something about flavors and fragrances that they are able to whisk us away to a time and place gone by. Buckwheat honey, for example, pulls me back to forgotten memories of being a kid at my grandmother's cottage on Keuka Lake, not far from Penn Yan. Not much buckwheat is planted any more, but it's still grown around Penn Yan, NY. The smell and taste of goldenrod honey reminds me of hauling empty supers out of the big old barn where they were stored by the first beekeeper I worked for, back in '74. I had never imagined there could be so many supers in one place! Of course, if you haven't had good orange blossom honey, you haven't lived. Anything orangey tends to bring me back to my youth roaming the orange groves in San Diego, and orange fights -- the southern equivalent to snowball fights. But my all time favorite honey memory is working bees near Borrego Springs, CA. We were checking hives near a grapefruit grove. All the hives had those plastic feeders that replace the frame at one side of the hive. Some of the hives had filled the feeder with new comb and pure grapefruit honey, the closest thing to heaven I ever tasted. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:19:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---- "J. Waggle" wrote: > >...Jim F has occasionally suggest to people who doubt that bees "draw > foundation out" use a sheet of the colored stuff and see what they get.> > > Might be interesting, but subject to judgment. Everything is subject to judgement. The question is, will the proposed "test" answer the question posed. > I would think the results > from that experiment would certainly not be acceptable to anyone in the > scientific community. That depends entirely on the question you were attempting to answer. > If you had a good scale, perhaps weighing a piece of foundation before and > after cells built would more decisive. Maybe, but then some wiseacre would start talking about the weight of propolis, cocoons and frass incorporated into the wax. I think the color test, done, correctly would be very illuminating. Not quantifiable, but illuminating none the less. You could measure the concentration of pigment, melt down the comb, leaving behind the non-wax portion, and then see how diluted the pigment was after comb building if you were looking to publish this somewhere. But for the purposes of answering the question "do bees pull foundation out, or merely add to it" the color foundation test would be more than adequate. If you were looking to find out to what degree they did this in a variety of circumstances, for that you need a little more tech. This is a pretty binary question. They do pull foundation, or they don't. Rigorous scientific testing with statistical analysis is great, but not necessary to answer all questions - the tough part is in figuring out which questions require which approach. Keith ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:12:58 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: overblown statements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've never seen a press article that was entirely accurate, unless the reporter sent a copy to us for review before publication - which very few do, many tell us they would be fired for releasing a draft prior to publication. As per overblown statements in the LAT article, "The puzzling phenomenon, known as Colony Collapse Disorder, or CCD, has been reported in 35 states, five Canadian provinces and several European countries." That statement is inaccurate, but not in the ways indicated on Bee-L. We at Bee Alert have received completed surveys from 639 beekeepers in 43 states, and yes, those beekeepers HAVE REPORTED CCD in 35 states and 5 provinces, at some time OVER the last 16 months. Some of these 'state' reports are questionable - too few surveys indicating CCD to be certain, so we have about a half dozen states and three provinces that we consider questionable. We have good reason to believe that CCD has been in at least 27 states and two provinces - although Canadian reports have NOT been confirmed by inspectors or bee researchers. There are reports of bee losses in several European countries, Taiwan, and some S. American countries, but no one knows whether these are CCD, pesticide, or a pathogen like N. cerana -- there's been no common sampling, investigation - so all we know is that the U.S. isn't the only country having trouble keeping bees in good health - but whether its CCD, no one knows. I've been in S. America in one of the countries reporting bee losses, and their problem was dwindling, which in part seems to be nutritional - the symptoms were not a sudden collapse. As per comments on Bee-L about dramatic differences between the irradiated, acetic acid, untreated hives -- the report posted recently showed some, but not a dramatic difference among the treatments in terms of frames of bees, brood, etc. -- I pulled the original data chart for a talk this weekend - the data doesn't show much difference, except for the number of open brood cells in untreated CCD equipment. There are some trends. I'll be interested in seeing how these colonies progress, and a statistical analysis of the results. Perhaps looking in the hives provides a different perspective, but it doesn't seem to be demonstrated by the data table - at least not to the degree suggested by the posts on Bee-L. Curious. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:05:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: overblown statements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- the report posted recently showed some, but > not a dramatic difference among the treatments in terms of frames of bees, > brood, etc. -- Wow, that's a big point! Lots of people are going to be jumping on the comb sterilization train based upon the assumption that it makes a big difference. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:35:13 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Molokai Meli LLC Subject: Interesting Honeys Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The best honey we ever tasted was kiawe honey from Hawaii. We now specialize in this variety alone. The kiawe tree is related to the mesquite. The honey is white, creamy, with a light sweet taste and no aftertaste. It has become a comfort food for many of our customers who say they like it because it brings them back to all the good things in life. They just take a spoonful and let it melt in their mouths. We have had a few calls that gave a detailed description of their experience when tasting the honey that was so descriptive, I had to take the phone off speaker phone so my children wouldn't hear. It didn't sound like an experience with honey at all. Molokai Meli www.realhawaiihoney.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:39:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Glen_Glater?= Subject: Michigan honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings from Massachusetts. Here in Massachusetts, people harvest "cranberry honey". In Maine, it's "blueberry honey", in Florida "orange blossom honey", etc. I have family in Michigan (Detroit suburb) and we were recently discussing this topic and they didn't know what kind of Michigan crops provided honey with a slight taste of the crop, the way these others do. Can beekeepers in Michigan let me know if there is a Michigan "Cherry honey" or some such thing from a different crop associated with Michigan? Thanks. --glen ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:45:50 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Molokai Meli LLC Subject: Re: Looking for Historical Information - 'Bees in America' In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a good source for historical honeybee information in Hawaii: http://www.hawaiibeekeepers.org/history.php Molokai Meli ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:53:21 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Interesting honey In-Reply-To: <000001c7ace3$63a06c40$6401a8c0@NOTEBOOK> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dick Marron wrote: > I have a little honey someone sent me from WA. It's Fireweed honey. This > weed grows from the ashes of a forest fire, in the mountains. It has > absolutely no aftertaste. In Alaska fireweed honey is probably the most popular among the general public. It not only has no aftertaste, but it has very little flavor in general, in my opinion. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:36:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The floral source is what we call "smart weed" (heartsease). Most packers will not buy honey tainted with >"smart weed" but the honey is an excellent honey for bees to winter on. Best I have ever found. Bob, I seem to recall you get this honey from river bottom land. Is this "swamp smart weed" or just the usual variety we see in yards and agricultural crops. We had acres of it around the hog lot when I was a kid growing up but I don't recall bees working it at all, but perhaps they had plenty of other forage that was more attractive. Jerry P.S. There is a reason why it is called "smart weed" or "water pepper" ; those with experience found it is a very poor substitute for toilet paper. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:44:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Joel_Govostes?= Subject: Re: Aebi brothers (was: Information) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ormond and Harry (father and son) used single Lang brood chambers with q. excluders, and 6" honey supers. They used a lot of honey supers, and always added the newest ones right above the excluder. No doubt a lot of work to shift all those filled supers to add a new one, but they claimed this prevented swarming. They were in Santa Cruz, CA and I believe they usually wintered in one brood chamber plus one super, with the hives being wrapped. They were cautious about cool air and drafts in the hives. As I recall they experimented with things like 11 frames in the brood chamber, a la Charles Koover, but ulitmately did not find this to be practical. Another set of experiments involved grounding the queen excluders. You could say they really mollycoddled their bees. Their two books are written in an affable style, and make for an enjoyable read. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:19:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Keith Benson wrote: >But for the purposes of answering the question "do bees pull foundation out, or merely add to it" the color foundation test would be more than adequate. As often occurs we are getting off of the original question that I was commenting on which was the statement made by PB: “... there is enough wax in the sheet of foundation for them to stretch and build the entire comb…...” Therefore, a color test would probably not answer the question as it would not reveal if the bees are building the entire comb from the foundation as stated in the above quote, OR if additional material was added to the comb. Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Derry, PA “Bees Gone Wild Apiaries” FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:13:20 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Interesting honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heather! Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:45:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jerry & All, >I seem to recall you get this honey from river bottom land. When the Blackwater River gets out of its banks the pink variety of Heartsease (polygonum) really comes up. Around Hale, Missouri the white variety is common and the bloom is dependable. >Is this "swamp smart weed" or just the usual variety we see in yards and agricultural crops. From my experience the white variety is found in yards and agriculture crops and the pink variety is found in the flooded river bottoms. Both are worked by the bees and can produce large yields of dark honey with a strong aroma. >We had acres of it around the hog lot when I was a kid growing up but I don't recall bees working it at all, but perhaps they had plenty of other forage that was more attractive. Many names are used for the polygonum and I am really not sure which is what we call smartweed in Missouri. P. persicaria (lady's thumb but still listed as heartsease in books) is said the be the best honey producer. However the picture on page 137 of "Honey Plants of North America" looks exactly like what we see as does the picture on 179 of Pellett's book "American Honey Plants". Huge yields have been reported in the Midwest from P. perssicaria but no mention of the color difference. Couple quotes from the first book. " At a convention in Lincoln , Nebraska a beekeeper reported that two of his colonies yielded each 450 pounds of extracted honey , and the average from his apiary was 250 pounds of honey-all heartsease." " There are in Nebraska ( also in remote areas of Missouri) acres upon acres of this honey plant extending over the plains as far as the eye can see :and it yields nectar from August till frost ,enormous yields excite no surprise" It is sad such a prolific nectar source produces a low grade honey ( the plant is related to the Buckwheat plant) in *our area*. I can sell a few drums to those which love a super dark honey and do not mind the smell but in my opinion use for wintering bees is its best use. A local packer had rejected drums in a corner of his building because the honey had the familiar "smartweed" smell when we visited last fall. Processing honey after the clover bloom is the only protection in many areas to keep honey from being tainted with "smartweed" . The smell is distinct. Kind of like dirty socks many beekeepers say. When a strong "smartweed" flow is on the whole apiary has the smell. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:52:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Information In-Reply-To: <000101c7aca4$94d5c4c0$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Having said that Jim F has occasionally suggest to people who doubt that bees "draw foundation out" use a sheet of the colored stuff and see what they get. Reply: Want those on the list here to know on this one I agree 100% with what Jim Fischer is saying on bees drawing out foundation, and the moving of colored wax around a beehive. I myself have pointed this out in discussion more then once concerning old combs and colored wax on various lists. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:08:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Information In-Reply-To: <10094925.61231181657978806.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web22-z02> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All > "do bees pull foundation out, or merely add to it" I think both are true, in variable proportion, I can offer this insight... http://g8mzy.co.uk/list/comb_drawing_edge.jpg The photograph is of the edge of advancement of comb building, on a piece of foundation that has a very shallow imprint of cells embossed on it. You can clearly see that the midrib of the drawn cells is thinner than the foundation and you can see where the bees have progressively nibbled away at the foundation wax, making it thinner towards the centre of comb building activity. Whether the wax that is nibbled away is used to build side walls or fresh wax is used (or added) is not clear, but I can say that at least one British manufacturer of foundation makes BS brood foundation sheets that weigh 51 grams, because a piece of freshly drawn natural comb of the same size was weighed at 51 grams. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 05:31:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Study: Propolis Extract Supressed Neurofibromatosis Tumors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Study: Propolis Extract Supressed Neurofibromatosis Tumors Researchers Find New Zealand Bee Product Extract Suppresses Cancer Scoop, 6/13/2007 SEE: http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/06/study-propolis-extract-supressed.html Cancer researchers in Germany today announced the results of a study showing a New Zealand company's bee-product extract suppresses a type of tumour affecting one in 3000 people. Manuka Health's Propolis Liquid Bio30' product was tested by a team at University Hospital Eppendorf, Germany, led by Japanese researcher Dr Hiroshi Maruta. Dr Maruta announced the results today (Wednesday) at a Neurofibromatosis conference in Utah City, USA. Neurofibromatosis is a set of genetic disorders which cause tumours to grow along various types of nerves, and can affect the development of non-nervous tissue such as bone and skin… Dr Maruta's tests found Bio30' propolis liquid supressed NF1 tumours in mice by more than 90% over 100 days… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:50:59 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Aebi brothers (was: Information) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you, Joel. >>Ormond and Harry (father and son) used single Lang brood chambers with q. excluders, and 6" honey supers. I've read that the late professor Roger Morse advocated using single deeps with excluders, too. >>They used a lot of honey supers, and always added the newest ones right above the excluder. ...they claimed this prevented swarming. This set-up keeps the bees trying to establish a honey dome above the broodnest for survival. With this number one priority not met, reproductive swarming (priority number two) is not initiated. I guess I'd like to try this set-up one day for comparison although I agree with you that juggling those heavy medium supers is no fun. >>Another set of experiments involved grounding the queen excluders. What is this? Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:59:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Aebi brothers (was: Information) In-Reply-To: <200706131310.l5DBuGF3022283@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >>Another set of experiments involved grounding the queen excluders. > > What is this? One of the brothers noticed how uncomfortable he would get when he built up a static electric charge while working, and how he felt much better after lying down on the ground to lose the charge. He extrapolated this to his bees, and thought that perhaps if he grounded the metal queen excluders his bees might also benefit by losing any static electric charge they might have aquired. My recollection is that the beekeeper was relieve thinking he had done something to benefit the well being of his bees but it remained uncertain if there was actually any real benefit for the bees. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:49:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Looking for Historical Information - 'Bees in America' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Molokai! Thats a good link! Thanks for the great info! I also found supporting reference material concerning honeybees in Hawaii in a book I just received: ‘World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting’ by Eva Crane I also have ‘Bees in America’ by Tammy Horn, but info provided is mostly duplicate info being referenced from the book ‘World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting’ I’m going back about 100 million years or so in creating my honeybee timeline. I ordered the book ‘Archaeology of Beekeeping’ also by Eva Crane. If it is anywhere near as good as ‘World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting’ it will be a great resource for me. Still searching for reference material concerning the arrival of honeybee in the states mentioned at the start of this thread. I’ve taken to writing the historical societies of each state to see what they may have that can assist me. Thanks again! Joe Waggle Derry, PA “Bees Gone Wild Apiaries” FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:23:38 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Molokai Meli LLC Subject: Re: Looking for Historical Information - 'Bees in America' In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Still searching for reference material concerning the arrival of > honeybee > in the states mentioned at the start of this thread. I’ve taken to > writing the historical societies of each state to see what they may > have > that can assist me. Aloha Joe, Glad you could use the information. Molokai is so little known now for its honey when it used to be the top. May I also suggest you contact the state beekeepers associations in the states you are still looking for information in? This is where I found the Hawaii history. Molokai Meli www.realhawaiihoney.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:36:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: overblown statements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit With all due respect it has been quite clear that the survey and CCD map does not always match with the story on the ground. I feel it is an important piece of the CCD puzzle but is not the definitive and complete source of information either. Obviously getting a complete picture of the scope of CCD is part of the CCD problem in addition to finding a cause and without your efforts we would be even more lost in the sea of claims and reports. Here on Bee-L we have seen too many pieces of information coming from very credible sources that paint a very different picture of how far reaching CCD is in North America then the survey and map would suggest. >From my perspective the map in particular is a major component of the "overblown statements" and paints a misleading picture of how widespread CCD was. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:09:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: overblown statements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The media presents the CCD map without explanations - these are states from which we have received reports of CCD from beekeepers. The results reflect a 16 month period of time, and do not imply that CCD is in all states at the same time. We don't have any control over how the maps are used/presented, which is unfortunate. As per the reliability of our survey compared to the so called 'on the ground reports' from Bee-L -- we may see some bias, considering how the data is collected -- BUT, it is based on the reports of 639 beekeepers in 43 states - which is a relatively large and dispersed number of beekeepers. Also, over 70 of our respondents were large scale beekeepers. Both our survey and Bee-L show that many beekeepers are working hard at trying to help solve this problem. How to best do that is a question of merit. Unfortunately, NASS doesn't track bee losses or even bee movement, so getting accurate information is difficult. Bee-L has the same bias as our bee loss survey - all information is based on input from only those people who decide to contribute information, mostly electronically. Bee-L has far fewer people providing input (at least with respect to on-line discussions) about CCD than our surveys, so I'd be careful about sweeping statements about who is getting a more accurate picture of CCD in the U.S. Neither our survey or Bee-L is unbiased (random sample). On the other hand, we only count the input from each person once - 639 individual reports, whereas the opinions of a few Bee-L members are repeated over and over. Many times we've seen the information, provided by the more than 600 respondents to our surveys, disprove the opinions on Bee-L. For example, feeding sucrose syrup compared to high fructose does NOT provide CCD protection. Non-migratory beekeepers have sustained CCD, as well as migratory beekeepers. Organic beekeepers do report CCD, as well as beekeepers who throw everything and the kitchen sink at their bees in attempts to control mites. Beekeepers with mite problems, out of control, experience CCD. Beekeepers with mites under control, or with almost a total absence of mites, also experience CCD. Feeding fumagillin does not eliminate CCD. I'm sorry, but I work with data, and we have over a quarter of a million answers to many critical questions. Our survey approach will not accurately provide the total number of colonies or beekeeping operations affected by CCD, because a volunteer survey has a sampling bias. However, the information provided by more than 600 of the nation's beekeepers, including 70 of our largest, provides a wealth of data about the affects of differing styles of bee management, overall causes of bee death, distribution and timing of bee loss problems, and other contributing factors important to an epidemeology investigation. The most important lesson learned, beekeepers in the U.S. are sustaining far greater losses of bees to a variety of causes than what be tolerated by any other aspect of our agriculture. We used to think 5-10% overwinter loss was about the norm, and pesticides were an occasional problem. We now have beekeepers accepting 50% losses as normal. Its hard to make a living or profit under those conditions. Jerry Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:59:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Matthew_Henry?= Subject: Encouraging a hive to swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have a stubborn bunch of lazy bees, let me tell you. They are festooning all over the outside of the box, all of an inch thick on the front, and wrapping around the sides at night. I have placed a bait nuc near by with honey comb in it, which the bees are investigating and robbing. Crowding is said to trigger swarms, so why will they not swarm? They have no room to store the honey they are robbing! This has been going on for many weeks. It's rather embarrasing. When it rains, they get soaked and some die. The returning foragers have trouble digging their way through this mass of bodies to get inside. I am a novice breeder in Florida. Is there anything I can do to encourage them to swarm, short of pulling the queen frame? I want this to be a natural birth, not a caesarean section. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:22:22 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Encouraging a hive to swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Hi Matthew Treasure the colony! A reluctance to swarm has to be a good trait. You could raise queens by moving frames of eggs, perhaps trimmed and with one in three cells along the cut edge retained and splayed out a bit, into queenless but bustling colonies. all the best Gavin ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:24:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In a recent memo Jerry B said "Non-migratory beekeepers have sustained CCD, as well as migratory beekeepers." I have the highest respect for Jerry, but I wonder about this statement for the following reasons: 1. Do we know what CCD is? Is there a set of symptoms that everyone agrees on that means 'CCD'? 2. I personally took part in the survey and my responses are among those Jerry references. This past winter I had the highest losses ever, yet I reported 'not having CCD'. Why...I think my losses were primarily due to trachael mites. Lots of honey on the hives, but relatively few dead bees. When I saw the question...did you have losses due to CCD (or some version thereof), I was astounded as I was not aware then (nor am I now) that there is any defination of what CCD is. 3. This year I must have had 50 calls from hobbyists who reported "I lost my hives to CCD". If they filled out the survey, they would have been counted! Some I recall had only 2-3 hives and were second or third year beekeepers! IMHO, they would not know CCD from EFB, Nosema, or even Varroa. There is no question in my mind concerning the following: 1. The set of symptoms mostly called CCD is a serious threat to American beekeeping. 2. The use (and overuse) of organophosphates is a serious threat to American beekeeping. 3. *Many* beekeepers are reporting CCD because it allows them to think (and say) that their bees died through no fault of their own. I think this is primarily a factor among hobbyists, yet the methods of counting treat them the same as those who lost 1,000 hives with most or all of the now 'classic' symptoms. 4. Some of this bandwagon is being pushed forward by those beekeepers who want to get on the public teat, side-by-side with the beef, wheat, corn, and others through the new farm bill. I am told this is likely to come to pass. And, since I am somewhat known in some beekeeping circles, there are those who are furious I am expressing these opinions. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:33:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Lloyd asks: Is there a set of symptoms that everyone agrees on that means 'CCD'? Yes, these symptoms were identified, agreed upon by the CCD Working Group, and have been listed on all of the CCD Working Group sites, including our own bee loss survey site - collapse of colony, absence of older bees, presence of queen, young bees, often an excess of brood, absence of dead bees in box, in front of hive, often noticeable absence of robbing, pests such as wax moths, etc. If you answer disappearing bees in our survey and also answer dead bees in box, we don't count it as CCD. Many of those questions had some intentional overlap so we can sort out what we call CCD from other losses. >There is no question... set of symptoms mostly called CCD is a serious threat, use (and overuse) of organophosphates is a serious threat, *Many* beekeepers are reporting CCD ... died through no fault of their own. I mostly agree, except that pesticide losses are NOT limited to OPs - we still see losses from a wide array of pesticides-, and most beekeepers responding to our survey spent a lot of time trying to apportion losses to various causes, they weren't just checking CCD. The ratios of possible causes of loss checked by beekeepers has not changed much since the beginning of all this, regardless of the press. We also have found beekeepers who are very reluctant to admit to any bee losses, because other beekeepers will think that they are poor bee managers. > I think this is primarily a factor among hobbyists, yet the methods of counting treat them the same .... we don't treat them the same --we separate out the responses by size of beekeeper. We don't lump them as all the same, and we pay particular attention to larger, long term (years) beekeepers - who should know the basics, or else they wouldn't have been in business for very long, or reached sizes of 1,000s, to 10s of thousands of hive. >>beekeepers who want to get on the public teat We get about equal amounts of pressure from associations and individuals who want us to either list a state in case agricultural disaster relief funds are made available, and those who want us to delist a state so no one will shun their bees. We try or best to maintain a neutral ground; we list states as the data indicates. We admit that our volunteer survey may be biased by people wanting to report losses as CCD, but the data does not indicate that this is happening to any great degree, and most importantly, numbers reporting CCD have not changed substantially. In fact, the most obvious result is that overwinter loss is one of the most frequently cited cause of bee loss. Pesticides hold about constant at about 4%. Obviously, the most recent reports are the most likely to be biased, given all of the press. But, we've not seen an obvious change since we started all of this. We also intended to draw a line, wrap up the current survey, and reformat, given that we've now finished reports from overwintering and in a sense have begun a new bee year. We're looking at the old survey, working towards improving/replacing it with a better survey. Our bottom line, its the degree of overall loss frequency and distribution that is more worrisome than the 'attribution' to CCD in terms of the viability of this industry. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:43:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Loyd said: “4. Some of this bandwagon is being pushed forward by those beekeepers who want to get on the public teat, side-by-side with the beef, wheat, corn, and others through the new farm bill. I am told this is likely to come to pass.” Unfortunately the agricultural environment being what it is, getting on the “public teat” is, if not a necessity for survival, at the very least a huge factor in the Darwinian sense. If one element of a market gets even a slight advantage from government subsidies in the form of say artificially maintained currency exchange rates, it puts pressure on other players to try to offset that in any way they can. We all know how complicated this gets. It gets hard to know exactly where to put the blame, but it seems there's no end to it. Steve Noble ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:12:01 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alastair A Botes Subject: Re: Interesting Honeys In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" SA : In the Cape we have some hives on a mountain near Steenbras , Curry & Sugar gums predominantly . The colour is golden , but the consistancy is that of glue , its so viscous that it cant be spun from the frames . It dos not drip at all . It kind of " snaps " off in snotty strings , very much like ticky - tack ( prestick ) would . The locals call it " snot heuning " and use it for Winter food . Alastair Botes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:33:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey Used to Treat Wound Infections in German Hospital MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey Used to Treat Wound Infections in German Hospital The Healing Touch of Honey By Kirsten Traynor, Humbolt Scholar, Celle, Germany American Bee Journal, June 2007 [Dr. Arne] Simon, consultant of the oncology department at the children's clinic in Bonn, Germany has helped his patients find relief through the application of honey. Most of his patients suffer from a suppressed immune system, due to their underlying illness (i.e. leukemia) and the chemotherapy they undergo… SEE: http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/06/honey-used-to-treat-wound-infections-in.html ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:47:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Looking for Historical Information - 'Bees in America' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline J. Waggle wrote: > I'm going back about 100 million years or so in creating my honeybee timeline. An excellent reference on the evolution of the honey bee would be "Asian Honey Bees" by Ben Oldroyd (2006). In it he describes the "oldest known bee fossil", a bee preserved in amber found in New Jersey and estimated at 80 million years old. This is not a true honey bee but is similar to the modern genus Trigona, a stingless social bee. He writes that open nesting honey bees appeared in Southeast Asia 6-10 million years ago, and that cavity nesting bees emerged more recently, "possibly in the Himalayan region". This would still be an ancestor of the modern Apis mellifera. He suggests that A. mellifera and A. cerana derive from a common ancestor that was isolated by the expansion of desert areas of the Middle East. The time of divergence is unclear but divergence of the mitochondria suggests 3 million years ago. This would make the honey bee a "relatively young species", like Homo sapiens. There is some evidence that the "European Honey Bee" actually originated in Africa: > The coexistence of three mitochondrial lineages in north-eastern Africa provides support for Ruttner's (1978) hypothesis that this area is the probable centre of origin for Apis mellifera. Note, however, that the Horn of Africa and the Rift Valley are the main channels of colonization from Asia to Africa. As an aside: > scientists estimated the time of divergence between species by studying the sequential arrangement of nucleotides that make up the chain-like DNA molecules of each species. The number of mutations in the DNA sequence of a species, compared with other species, is a gauge of its rate of evolutionary change. By calibrating this rate with the known time of divergence of a species on another branch of the tree-like diagram that shows relationships among species, scientists can estimate the time when the species they are studying evolved. Using this calibration time, the team estimated that the human-chimp divergence occurred at least 5 million years ago -- Peter L. Borst Ithaca, NY USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:35:21 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Forcing a hive to swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...a stubborn bunch of lazy bees... They are festooning all over the outside... and wrapping around the sides at night. They have no room to store the honey they are robbing! It does not sound like lazy bees to me at all. :) You provided them with limited room and yet they are still trying to store more honey! There is nothing lazy about this behavior. I'd give them extra supers. You will find it hard to find lazy bees in general. Unmotived perhaps (by restricted room, no nectar flow but plenty of stores) but not lazy. >>Crowding is said to trigger swarms, so why will they not swarm? You may be past the reproductive swarm cut-off date for your area and, if there is not a good flow on, they may not want to generate a crowding swarm. Especially if you have a young queen and genetics not prone to swarming in the first place. A desirable trait indeed as Gavin said. Is it your goal to force them to swarm - why? You also mentioned rain - rainy weather can delay swarm issue for a few days. >>This has been going on for many weeks. It's rather embarrasing. When it rains, they get soaked and some die. The returning foragers have trouble digging their way through this mass of bodies to get inside. Do you see any pollen coming in? If not, there may not be a queen. Sometimes it happens: a productive queen will perish and the colony fails to replace her with a mated new queen. The result is lots of bees for a while with no eggs for a new queen. >>I am a novice breeder in Florida. Is there anything I can do to encourage them to swarm, short of pulling the queen frame? Not sure what you mean by the queen frame. If you are not trying to induce a swarm, I'd check the hive for queen presence (eggs, very young larvae or the queen itself). If you are a bit apprehensive about inspecting the very populous hive, you can move the hive to a new location and leave a bait hive (1 deep with a couple of frames of open brood and foundation) at the old address. When the flying bees settle down at the old address, you'll have a nice depopulated hive to inspect 1 or 2 days later. [BTW, you can reduce the bee density in the hive by putting extra boxes on. It makes inspecting so much easier when the bees are not boiling out of the boxes.] For long term management, you could split this hive (by a walk-away split for instance) or throw extra supers on to give them more room if you are not interested in an extra colony. The bees are not the problem. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:52:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline When I started my diatrabe about CCD reporting I expressed my overall respect for Jerry, and his measured response reinforces that respect. I was particularly struck by "Our bottom line, its the degree of overall loss frequency and distribution that is more worrisome than the 'attribution' to CCD in terms of the viability of this industry." Yep, that is right. Jerry mentioned several agreed symptoms of CCD, some of which I knew of and others I did not. In particular I noted the 'presence of a queen' and 'substantial amounts of brood'. Yet, many many beekeepers in upstate NY faced with dead hives are saying it is the result of CCD. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:45:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, 4. Some of this bandwagon is being pushed forward by those beekeepers who want to get on the public teat, side-by-side with the beef, wheat, corn, and others through the new farm bill. I am told this is likely to come to pass. Moo! Moo! Moo! Move over beef,wheat & corn! The above is true. Actually long overdue. Beekeepers have tried for years to get at least crop insurance. Crop insurance is not a hand out! You pay for the protection! Beekeepers have been discriminated against for quite a while. Several senators (names withheld) called a couple large beekeepers "millionaire beekeepers" with their hands out reaching for the public teat in hearings years ago. Luckily we have other senators which realize the importance of commercial beekeeping and the hard, back breaking work involved. Not all beekeeping is simply a pastime for old men (except maybe in my case). An important beekeeping industry has needed support (like beef ,wheat and corn) for years. many outfits which have went under in the last 20 years might not if we had had some help. WE CAN IMPORT EVERYTHING LLOYD SAID (LIKE BEEF,WHEAT AND CORN PLUS HONEY ETC.) BUT YOU CAN NOT IMPORT POLLINATION. >And, since I am somewhat known in some beekeeping circles, there are those who are furious I am expressing these opinions. Welcome to my world! Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Looking for Historical Information - 'Bees in America' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter L. Borst wrote: >An excellent reference on the evolution of the honey bee would be >"Asian Honey Bees" by Ben Oldroyd (2006). In it he describes the >"oldest known bee fossil", a bee preserved in amber found in New >Jersey and estimated at 80 million years old. This is not a true honey >bee but is similar to the modern genus Trigona, a stingless social >bee. Thanks Peter! That will be a great addition to the timeline! I was wondering, I see references to spread of honeybees by Eva Crane and others often accredited to: Everett Oertel lutz, 1993 Ibid Are you familiar with any of he titles for the material by 3 names above that Eva Crane and others may have referenced from? Or if they may have published books concerning the history of honeybees, or may recommend books that might help for reference material that I can purchase? Never heard of Ibid, I‘m not familiar with that name. Thanks in advance! Finding it difficult to find good referenced material on the internet. Other than yours and Molokai great references. I do however upon digging stumble on other interesting references, such as the one placed below that supports Eva Cranes mention of Honeybees arrival in Wisconsin (found in Wisconsin’s Historical Society web site). Eva provides the date for Wisconsin, but NO source for the reference (unless it’s buried somewhere else in her book) which I think is essential and are attempting to provide in some manner in the time line. === 1827 Wisconsin - Probably Spread by Swarming. (Source: Eva Crane, World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting, Pg. 359) Beetown (origin of place name) In the early part of 1827, Cyrus Alexander found a mineral in the cavity made by overturning of a bee-tree. On digging a little they found a nugget [of lead] weighing 425 lbs. The lode discovered was called "bee-lead" and thus originated the name of the town. (Source: p. 563 of Holford, History of Grant Co.) === Best Wishes, Joe Waggle ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:04:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: CCD reporting In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since almonds, have there been any more major losses reported that were caused by CCD? Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:06:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: > WE CAN IMPORT EVERYTHING LLOYD SAID (LIKE BEEF,WHEAT AND CORN PLUS HONEY > ETC.) BUT YOU CAN NOT IMPORT POLLINATION. I thought I saw some pictures of tubes 2-3' long containing bees that had been imported into the US from Australia for pollination. There was, as I recall, queen excluder over the entrance. They were, I believe, 'disposable units' to be dropped from the air. Or is my memory failing? Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Antique Swarm Catcher Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, While researching ‘bees in America’ I came across a database of old bee photos that contained this image titled; swarm catcher. Is anyone familiar with the device and the manner in which it functioned? Particularly, if it interfered with hive functions such as hindering foragers from exiting the colony or drones. Thanks! http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n41/pcolar/SwarmCatcher.jpg Joe Waggle Derry, PA “Bees Gone Wild Apiaries” FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:50:20 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>BUT YOU CAN NOT IMPORT POLLINATION. I thought I saw some pictures of tubes 2-3' long containing bees that had been imported into the US from Australia for pollination. Bob also wrote some time ago about the attempts to open up the southern US borders to beekeepers from Mexico. Mexican beekeepers would gladly come into the US to pollinate. If we continue importing more and more of everything here in the US, it will eventually catch up to us leaving a bad aftertaste. The fact that so few Americans are concerned about the huge trade and federal deficits and personal debts in the US is bewildering to me. It's like the parents and grandparents of today don't give a darn about the mountain of debt they saddling their children and grandchildren with. At least you can't afford much of a deficit if you are making a living from beekeeping... Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:57:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mike_Rippe?= Subject: Re: Antique Swarm Catcher Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey Joe, I just happened to have watched a video featuring the use of one of these 'swarm catchers'... perhaps this can answer your question [might want to skip into ~3:30]: http://www.iwf.de/iwf/res/mkat/metafiles/04000029460220000000_lo.asx Video presented here: http://preview.tinyurl.com/37kq6k >"Particularly, if it interfered with hive functions such as hindering >foragers from exiting the colony or drones." It seems to me that these would've been employed only when the swarm began to issue from the hives and removed shortly after - rather labor intensive! - Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:00:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Looking for Historical Information - 'Bees in America' In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit J. Waggle wrote: > Never > heard of Ibid, I‘m not familiar with that name. I means "the same as the name before" http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ibidem Keith ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:50:07 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar wrote: > If we continue importing more and more of everything here in the US, > it will eventually catch up to us leaving a bad aftertaste. Not just the US, our shops in the UK are full of imported food that we could easily grow ourselves - and yet we have fields lying idle (or, to be politically correct, set-asideBest wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ) and we have destroyed some of the finest orchards in the world. Of course, we have an urban government who know little, and care even less, about our countryside. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:11:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Looking for Historical Information - 'Bees in America' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks Keith! LOL, That will save me allot of time looking for reference material from Ibid. For a moment there, seemed Mr. Ibid may have been a great botanist or something. ;) Speaking of, I am having some really good success finding references to honeybees in early America by reading historical records from the travels of Botanist and Naturalists during the times. And am happily to find that they paid particular attention to the flora and pollinators observed during the expeditions. Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Derry, PA “Bees Gone Wild Apiaries” FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:10:34 +0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Detchon Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Edwards said..... "I thought I saw some pictures of tubes 2-3' long containing bees that = had been imported into the US from Australia for pollination. Or is my memory failing?" Your memory is not failing Peter. Just Google "Bee Tubes" or "Disposable = Pollination Units", and search within results for Western Australia or = Rob Manning. I have used these cardboard tubes many times on pollination = jobs where the tyranny of distance makes the economics of returning to = pick bees up at the end of flowering impractical or uneconomic, or the = access into the target crop is almost impossible. The grower is = responsible for burning them at the end of the pollination period. There are a few tricks to establishing them. If anybody wants more info, = contact me off list. Peter Detchon Western Australia ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:03:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter & All, >I thought I saw some pictures of tubes 2-3' long containing bees that had been imported into the US from Australia for pollination. There was, as I recall, queen excluder over the entrance. They were, I believe, 'disposable units' to be dropped from the air. I have never heard of the above tubes. Terry Brown will most likely call me tomorrow night from Australia and I will ask. Terry is coming to visit for the third year in a row. I always enjoy the several days we spend together. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************