From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:58:58 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST, WHY_WAIT autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4710249096 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFkpJ1016612 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0706C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 120463 Lines: 2702 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:23:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19233858/ After months of study, researchers are finding it difficult to tie the die-off to any single factor, said Maryann Frazier, a senior extension associate in Penn State University's entomology department. "Two things right now ... that are really keeping us focused are the pathogen and the role of pesticides," Frazier said. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:02:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Antique Swarm Catcher In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If I were to guess, based upon this photo, it looks like a screen tube with a removable end. I doubt the solid end has anything to do with shade for the cluster. My hunch is that this is not a swarm "catcher" but rather a swarm "retarder," that is, it allows the swarm to leave the colony but it won't allow them to get away, retarding their progress. (Is it still politically correct to use that word?) I gather the screen will allow forages to exit but not the queen (or drones). That's my best guess based on the picture. I've never seen anything like it. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:38:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kim Flottum Subject: Video request In-Reply-To: <431961.51955.qm@web31613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've had a request from someone for a video of a beekeeper, or beekeepers actually finding CCD colonies in their operation...it's the money shot as she says. Anybody got any ideas on who might have such a treasure...? Let me know off line if you think you do. Thanks....... Kim Flottum Editor, BeeCulture 623 West Liberty Street Medina, Ohio 44256 V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 Fax - 330.725.5624 Kim@BeeCulture.com www.BeeCulture.com No virus found by AVG at Root Candles in this outgoing email. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.17/850 - Release Date: 6/15/2007 11:31 AM ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:09:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees Buy organic honey; you'll help some bees live a low-stress life by David Ottoson www.juneauempire.com/ > While there have been many theories offered about this phenomenon, dubbed colony collapse disorder, most researchers are scratching their heads. The only place I've seen a coherent explanation is at the Organic Consumers Association's Web site. Here you will find several articles with a common theme: Colony collapse disorder is a direct result of industrial agriculture. > Commercial honeybee populations appear to be stressed to the point where their natural immune systems are breaking down. Numerous features of commercial agriculture may contribute to this stress: pesticides, monoculture, genetically modified crops and the way commercial bees are raised and managed. [This was written by someone who has NO IDEA how "commercial bees" are raised and managed.] -- Peter L. Borst Ithaca, NY USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:28:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by k.kellison@EARTHLINK.NET to = the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quoted of = previously posted material. ________________________________ From: Kathy Kellison [mailto:k.kellison@earthlink.net] Sent: Sat 2007.06.16 13:08 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology=20 Subject: Re: [BEE-L] CCD reporting Hello Jerry, am new to the list.. Randy Oliver knows me and what I am up to re: = bees started a non-profit ,, Partners for Sustainable Pollination this month.. concept is basically working with willing farmers and beekeep to farm fro criteria that will allow native pollinators and some EHB hives on site to help kick start restoring flora..consensus based and based on sound science. ECA model basically from Switzerland are you familiar?,,' Ecological Compensation Areas' good model lots going on in DC right now with Pollintor Bills can bring you up = to speed with that if you like am going DC end of month to meet with staffers .. bla bla.. anyway ,, ,why am I ringing your cage? Am well aware you have done lots of work with odor use by bees.. Are = you following the issue we have going in CA. right now with this seedless Mandarin orange legislation which prohibit bees within 3 miles of growers choosing this crop for their production land? Is there any solution you could offer from your work or good brain ,,besides netting that would let bees and beekeeps remain unrestricted and allow for production of this variety of orange?? Am going to to Ag. Committee hearing in Sacramento on Tuesday so this is a bit time sensitive! Thanks! Kathy ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:12:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/06/2007 18:32:08 GMT Standard Time, AMorris@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU writes: the issue we have going in CA. right now with this seedless Mandarin orange legislation which prohibit bees within 3 miles of growers choosing this crop for their production land? My mind is boggling!! Are they really (in the land of the free) legislating to prevent one exotic species pollinating another? What if there is an almond grower in the vicinity? How shall they prevent native insects from interfering with the sex lives of oranges? Apart from netting to exclude insects, have they tried going through the orchards with a leaf blower to remove most of the flower petals? One or two decoys left with petals should get most of the attention of bees etc. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:27:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > In Spain, Clementines are produced in bee free areas established by law, while in Morocco a grower wishing to plant varieties that are susceptible to cross-pollination from other citrus varieties must seek out isolated areas where cross-pollination can be controlled by distance from another pollen source and bees that seek to collect pollen without discrimination from one flower to the next and thus cause cross-pollenization. In the tours that I have led to Spain and Morocco at the request of several of our large citrus producers I always emphasized the importance of isolation from other pollen sources when establishing new orchards of Clementine and other type mandarins in California. Some have not followed that advice and have planted trees in high-density bee areas knowing full well that pollenization would be a problem and now want to see all of the bees excluded without paying the price for the exclusion. -- from a letter by Ray D. Copeland, the former Superintendent of the University of California Lincove Field Station, recognized consultant in citrus production with Clementine mandarin experience in Spain, Morocco, and California. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:18:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have asked repeatedly here for a clarification of the Apiary Inspectors or America (AIA) statistics concerning losses on CCD. The news releases were always vauge and appeared to not differrentiate between winter losses and CCD. Many of my posts which were replies to "CCD experts" have been moderated. Sometimes I feel like I'm asking the question no one wants to hear the real answer to. By scrutinizing different quotes from around the country I suspected the losses were under 10% of the 2.4 million. Those quotes can be found in the archives. There has been an obvious mismatch in numbers if one took the often quoted 25% of nations hives lost to CCD at face value added a winter loss estimate and also assumed 1 million hives were alive in CA for almonds. There would have been no hives left in the USA alive short of what was in CA. Today I may have found the first news quote that substantiates my own estimate. http://www.jacksonholestartrib.com/articles/2007/06/17/news/business/ cda6f5ff50b8f123872572fc0021003c.txt "A survey by the Apiary Inspectors of America estimates that between 651,000 and 875,000 of the nation's 2.4 million honeybee colonies were lost over last winter. While most losses were from known causes, over one fourth were attributed to CCD" a simple estimate then using 763K lost colonies * 25% yeilds 190,000 coloines lost to CCD or 8% of the nations total. One would expect the margin of error to be quite high in this estimate since its all self reported. Going with this number we have 1 million hives in CA for almonds, upwards of 875K lost to winter and CCD and the remainder 525K colonies still alive and not in almonds. I find this to be a plausible estimate of the Great Bee Loss of 06/07. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:59:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Subject: Fw: honey bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Carroll" To: Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 1:34 PM Subject: honey bees Hi, i have a honey bee hive in an old house and i just wanted to see if you needed any bees and honey before i have them killed. I am located about 2 hours north of mobile in camden al (wilcox county). please let me know if you are interested. i really hate to kill them but i have no use for them and do not want them in the house. thanks, brooke carroll ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:42:05 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees... I don't know if that's all there is to CCD but I recently read somewhere that they banned [certain?] pesticides in Israel 10 years ago and they've seen a 60% drop in cancer rates. A 65-year beekeeper friend of mine just got the news he's got prostate cancer. [The stats on prostate cancer are scary.] He can't be sure it was caused by pesticide residues but pesticides even in small amount do affect the hormonal balance which important for proper prostate function. In any event, is anyone aware of any studies that bee stings to the prostate area help reverse prostate cancer? Googling brings up a few websites that make that claim but I would like to find actual studies as well. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:02:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Could Honey Beat MRSA? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Could Honey Beat MRSA? Carmel Thomason, Manchester Evening News, 6/18/2007 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/06/could-honey-beat-mrsa.html Professor Molan recently researched an MRSA outbreak in a New Zealand's largest hospital, in which all victims were treated with manuka honey ApiNate Dressing (manuka honey which is impregnated into a calcium alginate fibre dressing). The results were astonishing… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 08:42:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "A 65-year beekeeper friend of mine just got=". Rest of header flushed. From: walter weller Subject: Re: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Waldemar wrote:=0D=0A=0D=0AA 65-year beekeeper friend of mine just got= the news he's got =0D=0Aprostate cancer. [The stats on prostate canc= er are scary.] He can't =0D=0Abe sure it was caused by pesticide resi= dues but pesticides even in =0D=0Asmall amount do affect the hormonal = balance which important for =0D=0Aproper prostate function.=0D=0A=0D= =0A=0D=0AThe commonly-accepted view of prostate cancer prevalence is t= hat if a man lives long enough he'll get it, but probably won't die of= it; it develops slowly and other things will kill him first. Lots of= us are living happily with prostate cancer, secure in the belief that= we'll be dead before it does us in.=0D=0A=0D=0ANo big deal. It's nea= rly universal in old men; not something new to blame on pesticides. J= ust age.=0D=0A=0D=0AWalter Weller (age 80)=0D=0A= ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:29:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Re: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees In-Reply-To: <20070618.054205.27585.6@webmail15.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar wrote: >>>>In any event, is anyone aware of any studies that bee stings to the prostate area help reverse prostate cancer? <<<<< I'm old enough to worry about prostate problems but I certainly hope no-one approaches me with the suggestion that stings in the prostate area would be helpful. I also have no interest in doing the research. Dick Marron ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:18:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy I think we might be able to condition bees to shun Clementines. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:36:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit talk to Mick Jaeger from the Rolling Stones about bee sting "therapy" http://www.chartattack.com/damn/2007/05/2208.cfm ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:41:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am sorry but I do feel that you are scaremongering (I know several people who have prostate cancer) and they are not as scared of it as you apparently are. The quotation I have heard is that people die with it, not of it. Can we have details of the research on this. (To the moderators, I know this is a bit off topic but I feel that such a scary message should be challenged) Ruary ----- Original Message ----- From: "waldig@netzero.com" > A 65-year beekeeper friend of mine just got the news he's got > prostate cancer. [The stats on prostate cancer are scary.] > Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:28:11 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Walter, >...view of prostate cancer prevalence is that if a man lives long enough he'll get it, but probably won't die of it While I appreciate your input, I think most people would want to do something about an undesirable condition. Radiation essentially destroys the prostate so many people seek natural remedies that have shown the ability to reverse a disease. >>No big deal. It's nearly universal in old men; not something new to blame on pesticides. Just age. Its rates have been increasing... I agree with the folks who say bee stings to the prostate area are not *pleasant* but if the alternative is dying from the cancer perhaps the discomfort is worth it. It would be to me but I would like to see the results of a well controlled study. Waldemar PS. I had a couple stop by the house yesterday to get some honey and the wife requested bees for sting therapy. She brought a small box with a sliding plexiglass cover. I shook a bunch of young bees onto an upturned telescoping cover and swept a couple of dozen bees into the box with a goose feather. It was not easy since the bees already in the box were trying to come out as I was sweeping new bees in. Anybody have a more efficient method? I thought about dumping the bees into a dark box with a small hole. I could put put the partly open bee box to the hole and let the bees come up looking for light. Anybody try this? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:42:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Prostate cancer In-Reply-To: <20070618.102811.25659.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Totally off topic now, but to clear the air... http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/default.htm All you want to know including natural treatments. Nice quiz also. Got one wrong. The most telling comment- "About one in six men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer during his lifetime, but only one in 34 will actually die of the disease. Most men with prostate cancer die from old age or another cause." This is another one of those diseases that are increasing only because we live longer. It is the kind of disease that does lend itself to quack cures because of its usual slow growth. Bill Truesdell (who wonders- is someone who is said to "have their head up..." conducting a prostate self examination?) Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:49:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Addison McMurtry Subject: Re: Was Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees - now prostate cancer In-Reply-To: <20070618.102811.25659.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- "waldig@netzero.com" wrote: > While I appreciate your input, I think most people > would want to do > something about an undesirable condition. Unless the cure is worse than the disease. Rates of diagnosis of prostate cancer have been increasing due to 2 factors - men are living longer and a blood test has been developed - the PSA (prostate-specific antigen). Many of the men now being diagnosed with prostate cancer would have died (of something else) blissfully ignorant of their "disease". Radiation does not destroy the prostate, and in fact usually has a better functional (urinary and sexual) outcome than surgical removal of the prostate. Many older men can be treated with hormone manipulation or not treated at all. There are lots of herbal preparations for enlarged prostates. Remember that any of them that actually work do so through some pharmacologic property, and are therefore "drugs" - just ones that haven't been tested for safety or efficacy, and aren't regulated. Getting bee stings anywhere near the prostate is going to require putting bees IN your rectum. Good luck getting any volunteers for that study. Back to beekeeping, please. -ALM ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:03:07 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bee venom for prostate cancer [Was: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I am sorry but I do feel that you are scaremongering (I know several people who have prostate cancer) and they are not as scared of it as you apparently are. <...> Can we have details of the research on this. Almost 29,000 deaths in 2003 is scary - it's the second deadliest cancer in the US. I am not talking about enlarged prostate but about prostate cancer. Take a look at what Ohio State University Medical Center has to say about it: http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/patientcare/healthinformation/otherhealth topics/ProstateHealth/ProstateCancer/ProstateCancerStatistics/ There are numerous web sites stating bee venom's positive effect on prostate [and other] cancer [but the results of controlled studies are tough to find!]. One example is the American Cancer Society's website: http://72.14.209.104/search? q=cache:slSIeklnY54J:www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/content/ETO_5_3X_Apith erapy.asp%3Fsitearea% 3DETO+bee+stings+prostate+cancer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=15&gl=us The same ACS website mentions the following study: 'Russell PJ, Hewish D, Carter T, Sterling-Levis K, Ow K, Hattarki M, Doughty L, Guthrie R, Shapira D, Molloy PL, Werkmeister JA, Kortt AA. Cytotoxic properties of immunoconjugates containing melittin-like peptide 101 against prostate cancer: in vitro and in vivo studies. Cancer Immunol Immunother. 2004;53(5):411-421' I will try to locate the text of the results. Hopefully, the results were positive. I would like to learn the dose amounts, application schedules etc. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:21:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Janet A. Katz" Subject: Re: Bee venom for prostate cancer [Was: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees In-Reply-To: <20070618.120307.5740.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I realize that the majority of folks on this list are most likely older men to whom prostate problems are probably of far more interest. But unless you want the few older women on this list to start posting about menopause, breat cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer...need I go on....??? I suggest those interested in prostate problems find a listserv for the discussion of the prostate. Thanks. Janet A. Katz Chester, NJ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Brian & All, >I have asked repeatedly here for a clarification of the Apiary Inspectors or America (AIA) statistics concerning losses on CCD. Why here? Call or email Jerry Hayes. >Today I may have found the first news quote that substantiates my own estimate. I am really glad the members of the CCD team are not living in the past like you *seem* to be. What happened last year is old news. The future is what is happening now and this fall. All of us need to be concerned about CCD. A huge forest fire can be started by a single match or tossed out lit cigarette. The symptoms described by the CCD team does not fit what we normally see. If we do not see any CCD this fall then the cause will for the most part will remain unknown (similar to other times in beekeeping history). If a million hives ( example) crash this fall wiping out an industry then we have got the ground work in place to act quickly. Keep in mind that if CCD should raise its head and crash a million hives this fall nothing will stop the problem this fall. Right now its a wait and see issue. Document and take samples will be the CCD team response if CCD issues arise this fall. What else can they do?. Try to find solutions for 2008. Hopefully CCD is over, done, finished! bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:57:07 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This discussion has drifted away from CCD, but I'll keep the thread title, so as to not start a new thread. > I think we might be able to condition bees to shun Clementines. Why should anyone lift a finger to comply with such baseless and blatantly silly demands? The entire problem is a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the foot by growers who deliberately ignored the prudent advice of experts, and planted THEIR trees too close to THEIR OTHER trees. The attempt to create a "bee no fly zone" stomps all over the rights of adjacent landowners, so any such law, even if passed, would be struck down as an "unjust taking" in violation of the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution, which states "Private property shall not be taken for a public use, without just compensation." (The "taking" here would be the restriction on the use of the adjacent land, limiting its use as agricultural land for crops that would be pollinated, such as for, ummm, ahhh, other types of oranges!) Joe Traynor did a good job of outlining the basic facts way back in 2003 in Bee Culture magazine. You can read a reprint of the article here: http://www.beesource.com/pov/traynor/bcapr2003.htm There was a more recent Bee Culture article this winter on this same issue, which made it clear that the Mandarin growers (most of these trees being planted by a single corporation owned by Lynda and Stewart Resnick, Paramount Farms and Paramount Citrus simply ignored the prudent advice of experts, and negligently planted their trees too close to other orange trees that would cross pollinate with the Mandarin oranges. As I understand it, both sets of trees BELONG TO THESE WOULD-BE MANDARIN GROWERS. Yep, its all their own trees, too close together, and their "solution" is to attempt to legislate and regulate nature! As stated in the 03/14/07 New York Times article http://tinyurl.com/3dukog "But clementine and W. Murcott trees dependably produce seedless fruit only when grown in isolated blocks. If they are not, the presence of bees becomes an issue. Most growers underestimated how much buffer zone they needed around plantings to keep bees from bringing pollen from nearby seedy citrus." The article further points out that the entire concept of a "seedless orange" was a matter of applying sprays to create a "Frankenfood" - a seedless fruit: "Originally, clementines were seedy, and required pollination by bees to bear regular crops. In the 1960s California researchers discovered that by applying a spray at bloom, simulating the growth hormones naturally secreted by seeds, farmers could obtain good harvests of seedless clementines. Bees became undesirable." Since then, there have been several developments that make the people lobbying for a "no fly zone law" look even more stupid: "A partial solution for this problem - an irradiated version of W. Murcott that never develops seeds, even when cross-pollinated by bees - has been developed by Mikeal L. Roose and Tim Williams, citrus breeders at the University of California at Riverside. In 1996 they irradiated W. Murcott budwood sticks (stems used for grafting) to rearrange the chromosomes to cause sterility... ...now called Tango, was virtually identical to the original W. Murcott yet averaged only one seed in five fruits. Nurseries started propagating Tango in June, and have orders for millions of trees." Don't like the irradiation approach? No problem - there are also hybrids: "Scientists also are breeding new seedless varieties, mainly by hybridizing trees with three sets of chromosomes, rather than the normal two. That genetic imbalance causes the fruits to be seedless. Five years ago the University of California introduced three such triploid mandarins, of which some 200 acres have been planted, and University of Florida breeders are evaluating 12,000 triploid mandarins. 'Triploids are the future of seedlessness,' said Jude W. Grosser, a citrus breeder at the University of Florida." Money might buy new laws, but lucky for us, judges are much, much harder to "buy". ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:20:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: CCD reporting In-Reply-To: <002401c7b1e5$3c5b6c00$2dbc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > I am really glad the members of the CCD team are not living in the past like > you *seem* to be. What happened last year is old news. The future is what is > happening now and this fall. > > Which is why I asked a simple question which has not been answered. Since almonds, have there been any more major losses reported that were caused by CCD? Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:21:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Gathering Bees Into a Small Comtainer In-Reply-To: <20070618.102811.25659.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Waldemar and Friends, For those of you interested in putting bees into a small jar for use in Bee Sting Therapy, here is a method I have been using for years. I use a plastic peanut butter jar with numerous 1/8" holes drilled in the top, as my bee container. I have the jar open and sitting on a flat surface near the hive I am gathering bees from. I use a 30" square piece of 4 mil plastic sheet spread on the ground and shake some bees from a frame onto the sheet. The bees are disoriented and I am able to fold the sheet like a newspaper, by grabbing two opposing edges, and shake the bees down to the center crease and then pour them into the jar. Sometimes I will gather too many and it is a simple matter to shake them out of the jar until a sufficient quantity remains and then gently screw on the lid. When we get ready to apply the stings, I pour about a teaspoon of concentrated sugar water through the holes in the top of the jar and roll the bees around in it until they are all well coated. At this point I place the jar in a small bowl and open the lid to pick out the bees one-at-a-time with special tweezers I have modified for the purpose. The bees can't fly with a coating of sugar water and will mill around the top edge of the jar, cleaning themselves. It makes it very easy to work with them, this way. I hope this helps. Robert J. Bassett ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:49:20 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Williams Subject: Re: Industrial agriculture is killing U.S. honeybees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit try putting a dollop of honey on the bottom of the container. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:25:11 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Test for resistance of varroa to acaricides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could anyone give me the full details of the laboratory method of determining resistance to acaricides. I already know the details of the 'Beltsville' Test what I want is the laboratory confirmation test. Ruary ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:36:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: CCD reporting In-Reply-To: <4677BBF2.9030508@suscom-maine.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Which is why I asked a simple question which has not been answered. > >Since almonds, have there been any more major losses reported that >were caused by CCD? TJ told me that a large pollinator on blueberries in Maine is seeing colonies full of brood, that have lost their bees. This was a few weeks ago, and brood was still alive, but warm weather was followed by a cold spell. Haven't heard since. Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 04:53:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Patients Flock to Indonesian Bee Venom Therapy Center MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Muntowib: Bees and Lessons for Humans P.J. Leo, The Jakarta Post (Indonesia), 6/20/2007 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/06/patients-flock-to-indonesian-bee-venom.html Visitors are warmly greeted at the clinic in the Scout Apiary Center in Cibubur, East Jakarta, where Muntowib, 45, offers bee-sting therapy, also known as cultivar api-puncture… Cultivar api-puncture, a healing method dating back to ancient civilizations, is one of the many alternative treatments mushrooming in the country. And therapists like Muntowib believe that disease caused by nervous disorders or blood vessel clogging can be cured with bee venom, called apitoxin, which stimulates the heart and produces a "warmth" through the cardiovascular system… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:36:19 -0700 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: anti Bee Legislation update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ..was present and accounted for in committee Ag. hearing today in Sacramento for vote on Ag 771.. this would ban bees within 2 miles of production land designated for the seedless Mandarin oranges in California. There was an obvious bias by the Chairman of committee who believes that growers have the right to plant whatever they want. And at the end of the session the plan had been to take a vote. I gave testimony in opposition of the bill on the merits that it would hurt the California Beekeepers who depend on neighboring citrus orchards for honey crop and forage after almond set. Was well armed with Joe Traynor's letter and Peter's comments, also letters in opposition by Randy Oliver, Adrian Wenner and Serge Labesque. documenting that growers well understood issues of planting this variety proximal to existing precedent beekeepers use of citrus. Gave some other comments dollars lost in industry this year, Eric's view on nutrition and looking at the big picture of honey bee health and U.S. dependency for approx 15 million crop production..Called for additional fact finding at the beginning and end of my presentation. There were several beekeepers and representatives from Ca. State Beekeepers Assoc. Some representation from other citrus but obvious was lack of organization of opposition both other citrus and beekeep industries. For what is worth, it was difficult to see large scale beekeeper one after another pleading for their financial lives. Siding with the beekeeping industry was Noelle Cremers of California Farm Bureau Federation. Her contact info is:(916) 446-4647 E-mail: ncremers@cfbf.com She is our best hope for negotiation with the growers at this point in my estimation and she needs science to back her up .. she took quite a barraging from Senator Florez, Senator Jeff Denan seemed to understand the absurdness of a property owner having predominance over others by dictating bee exclusion area.. by the way, when you do the math a 6 acre area 2 miles out each way is 8,000 acres, right? Multiply that times the growers that are clammering to produce this variety for its economical potential and that is whole lot of California.. also coming soon to a farm near you,, seedless watermelon,, cantaloupe.. this is a "slippery slope" that is a lot of lost forage for Ca. beekeep in a time when bee health is already fragile in our industry and habitat for beekeepers' is limited by increased monoculture. Interesting didn't even get to the point of how native pollinators would be treated in this.. honey bees were labelled today as pests, native pollinators can not be far behind. After more than 2 hours of deliberations,, the Chairman threw it back on the author, Leno, if he wanted the committee to go to vote since that was justified as had made all time requirements to committee etc.. sensing the vote outcome may not favor his bill at this time ,he asked the committee to reconvene in two weeks, July 3 for a vote only no testimony will be taken, at least that is how it was left today. Kathy Kathy Kellison k.kellison@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:01:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron A Morris Subject: Re: CCD reporting In-Reply-To: <200706201223.l5KCAUsY029651@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Since almonds, have there been any more major losses > reported that were caused by CCD? Bob Harrison submitted a short answer, "Yes." I requested of him more details and he responded to me personally, "A beekeeper in Kentucky lost his bees after almonds for one. Typical CCD symptoms he said. Boiling with bees and then no bees and only large areas of sealed brood. Some small amount of young bees with queen. Bees doing poorly on the comb. He called asking for advice. I have spoke with others. One so far in Missouri. Picking up deadouts each week." I was a bit confused, as Bob wrote on Monday, "Hopefully CCD is over, done, finished!" I suspect CCD will continue to make headlines. Aaron Morris - Thinking bad stories don't just die. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:40:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Members of the CCD Working Group have seen and sampled CCD operations since almonds, in both the west and the east. Some were in queen/package operations at a critical time. We now hear of operations with bees slow to grow, poor performance -- that seemed to be a common symptom the year before for many of the operations affected by CCD last fall/winter/spring. Unfortunately, CCD does not appear to have gone away. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:26:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Its useful to hear these important updates. Wish there was a mechanism for disseminating to beekeepers else we are left with mostly useless media reports. Sounds like some packages or queens were shipped from CCD affected operations? Sounds like a really bad idea. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:55:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I was a bit confused, as Bob wrote on Monday, "Hopefully CCD is over, done, finished!" The above is what many believe ( perhaps Brian) which is that CCD was overblown and not a serious issue. Its too early to tell what impact CCD will have this year but as pointed out by Michael Palmer and myself reports are coming in. Not a good sign and hopefully an eye opener for those thinking CCD is only a minor issue. I might add that there are many many reports of bees ignoring honey plants this year and not thriving. Which is the way things started last year. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:16:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: CCD reporting In-Reply-To: <000c01c7b33a$47756720$1abc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >many reports of bees ignoring honey plants this year and not thriving. Which is the way things started last year. Does this have to do with CCD or with weather? From what I understood, last year's drought in the midwestern US caused a dearth of nectar in many of the usual honey plants, making them less attractive to bees. Did those conditions affect the same plants' ability to produce this season? Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:20:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queens produced from combs where coumaphous (Checkmite) had been used MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline For some several years I have blamed poor queen performance on the use of coumaphous for Varroa control. Frankly, I had assumed that the drones were compromised as they are produced in enlarged brood comb while queens are principally produced in entirely new comb. I was led to these conclusions by a prominent queen breeder who shall remain unnamed. Malcomb Sanford recently passed on the me the following summary of a prominent researcher's study on the effects on queens. (Why has this not been reported in the magazines? Could it possibly be because queen producers are a major source of advertising?) While I would term the queen effects devestating, note that he concludes that the effects on drones are probably more severe! "Dr. Jeff Pettis, at the USDA bee lab in Beltsville, MD, conducted more studies on the effects of coumaphos-contaminated comb on development and longevity of honey bees. Queens reared in cell cups containing 100 ppm coumaphos (the residue tolerance level set for beeswax by EPA) only had a 45% chance of emerging, and they were light weight. One queen made it from = a 1,000 ppm cell, but she weighed only half of normal. If thy made it to the mating nucs, queens reared with or without coumaphos had the same mating success. Queen loss over six months was: control =C2=96 50% (inexplicably b= ad); 10 ppm =C2=96 45%; 100 ppm =C2=96 31%. Emergence of worker brood was: contr= ol =C2=96 95%; 100 ppm =C2=96 78%; 500 ppm =C2=96 60%; 1,000 ppm =C2=96 50%. Thirty t= o fifty of each set of worker bees were confined to cages with sugar syrup for 21 days= . It appears that if they make it to adulthood, then their life spans are similar: control =C2=96 21.0%; 100 ppm =C2=96 17.5%; 500 ppm =C2=96 18.0%; = 1,000 ppm =C2=96 20.0%. Drones were not included in this study, but they appear to be the caste of honey bees most susceptible to coumaphos." Lloyd --=20 Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:51:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: National Bee Loss Survey, latest update, June 19 --@ beealert.info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have just finished and posted an update of our national Bee Alert bee loss survey. You can download it at beealert.info. As of June 1, we have received nearly 700 surveys from 43 states, Puerto Rico, and 5 provinces. Since everyone on Bee-L seems to want to see numbers, we have kept our report simple, charted things by number of respondents, so you can see the actual numbers. At the end of the report, we summarize the main points in charts that provide the same information in terms of the percentage of beekeepers reporting various things. We do include a multivariate analysis of the reports of suspected pathogens that might cause CCD. We've also provided an updated map, contrasting 2006/2007 with 1975. There are 7 states that we have not listed on the map due to too few surveys, ambiguous information. We still haven't heard from Alaska or some of the southwestern states. Note, on our web site, we also include a link to the infamous LA report of N. cerana. The headline is very misleading - DeRissi did NOT claim to have found the answer to CCD. DeRissi's lab did find N. cerana, and lots of it, in some of the California bees from the almond groves that we provided to the Army. DeRissi also found an interesting array of viruses - he and the Army are still working through the results, but he found infla viruses, including black queen cell virus, sacbrood, and possibly other viruses. None of this was new, both PSU and USDA Beltsville had found and reported these viruses, knew about N. cerana in U.S. bees. DeRissi got samples the week before, got his results over the weekend, and got an unexpected call from a reporter early in the week, just as our Army colleagues were discussing their/his findings at the Beltsville meeting. DeRissi couldn't find any references to N. cerana in the U.S., so he told the reporter that he had found it, that he had read that some European countries (namely Spain), thought that N. cerana was a major factor in bee loss. Of course, we now know that Jeff Pettis has been tracking this for some time, and Jeff told me that he doesn't think its a primary pathogen, more of a secondary invader. There seems to be some questions about N. cerana/apis identification, how long N. cerana has actually been in the U.S., whether its a much of a problem, etc. So much for the history lesson, just shows what an editor can do to spin things up. Anyway, I hope that the Bee-L members will find the updated survey to be informative. And, please keep in mind, a volunteer survey has some inherent bias - but its the best that we could do on short notice and a shoe-string budget. Finally, we wish to thank Lance and Patty Sundberg, Sundberg Apiaries, Columbus, MT for a donation to us via the ABF Foundation that has enabled us to continue the survey. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:24:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eugene Makovec wrote: > many reports of bees ignoring honey > plants this year and not thriving. Which is the way things > started last year. I travel up and down California's Central Valley for my sales job. Our crops are irrigated. Every time I stop by flowering crops I see healthy honey bees like these: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/dava.jpg http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/davc.jpg The "save the pollinators" activist groups seem to think that if hedgerows were planted around fields like these: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/4af/davc.jpg native pollinators would flourish, hence reducing growers' dependence on honeybees. I have a hard time imagining how hedgerows could make such a meaningful difference. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:31:58 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.com" Subject: Re: CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit it seems to me that there are 2 ways in which researchers should be paid/funded to go around and vist commercial apiaries that are having problems. 1. they are hired as consultants by the apiary, just as any business would hire a consultant to solve problems....the reports and data would belong the apiary that hired them. 2. they are paid by the govt, and by donations made by individuals, corperations, foundations, bee clubs, etc (which is i think the model they are working under). under these circumstances, those footing the bill expect that their wellbeing is being considered. if the ccd team is visiting queen and package suppliers that are having problems of unknown origin and might be contagious, i kind of expect an assurance that all such operations have stopped shipping bees, and customers that had purchased bees that might be part of the contaminated stock had been contacted and they are keeping some track on what happens to _those_ bees, or i want to know from the ccd team what suppliers might have been a problem this season. if the ccd team is working for, and being paid by the apiaries fully and directly, i have no say if this will happen or not....but publicly funded research is a whole other story. what's the deal here? can we be assured that queen/package suppliers that had enough problem with ccd that they were visited by researchers didn't ship bees to customers that were possibly infected? deknow -- Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: Members of the CCD Working Group have seen and sampled CCD operations since almonds, in both the west and the east. Some were in queen/package operations at a critical time. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:35:15 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: anti Bee Legislation update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > it was difficult to see large scale beekeeper one > after another pleading for their financial lives. One does not win votes with crying about lost revenue. We need a constitutional scholar on this, as this bill is an "unjust taking" of the rights of adjacent property owners that is not only unconstitutional, but unconscionable. California law and US law do not allow the taking of private property (or property rights) for the sole purpose of the economic gain of another party. It is just that simple. The attempt here is to legislate nature away, and make up for simple-to-correct errors made by the growers of these "seedless" Frankenfood oranges. If they want "seedless", they should remove their other types of oranges that can cross-pollinate, or plant the newer trees that cannot produce seeds at all, as I mentioned here: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0706c&L=bee-l&T=0&P=258 3 But even if the bill passes, the strict language of the bill does not really present much of a burden to a landowner who is willing to lend his favorite beekeeper a hand. The interim period before the inevitable overturning of this bill as unconstitutional will not cause much hardship, for reasons I'll outline below. Let's slog through the current text of the bill, available here: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_771&sess=CUR "29835. Any beekeeper who owns property within a Seedless Mandarin Protection Area shall provide assistance to the person requesting the designation of the Seedless Mandarin Protection Area in developing mitigation steps to protect the seedless variety of mandarin fruit from contamination." That's interesting... the bill mandates indentured servitude for beekeepers, without compensation. The adjacent landowner who keeps bees is expected to work for the Mandarin grower on some sort of Sisyphean task to keep bees from visiting these Frankenfood "seedless" oranges. Its an impossible task, so the burden is infinite, and more than "unreasonable". It is not clear what sort of "mitigation" would help. If there was any sort of "mitigation" that was effective, the bill at hand would need to only call for a mitigation effort, rather than the complete removal of beehives. But wait a moment here, who is the "beekeeper"? A landowner that keeps bees on his property is a "beekeeper" under this language, and that would include someone who rents part of his property to another beekeeper. One need only realize that the payment of any sort of rent (money or honey) allows the landowner to declare that he IS a beekeeper, as he clearly keeps bees on his property, and he has a financial interest in doing so. It is no one's business who works the hives, or what is subcontracted out to who. Recall that many of the largest beekeeping operations on the planet are run by people who hire OTHER people to do the actual work, lease equipment, rent or borrow hives from other beekeepers, agree to care for the hives of another beekeeper, and so on. The use of independent contractors, capital equipment leasing, and outsourced services are common in agriculture, and this would be no different from any other modern business venture. (It is also true that nearly all the airplanes flow by the airlines are either leased, or owned and operated by other companies. Is American Airlines not an airline simply because many of its flights are operated by "American Eagle", with planes owned by "American Eagle", and all of the flights are flow on planes that AA leases?) This looks like a hole large enough to drive 55-foot tractor trailer loads of bees through, right up to the edge of Paramount's property line. "29836. (a) Any person who owns or operates property and grows a commodity requiring pollination located in an established Seedless Mandarin Protection Area shall not be denied access to bees for purposes of pollination solely because of his or her location within the Seedless Mandarin Protection Area." So a land owner who grows crops that need pollination will not be barred from getting pollination. That's nice. So, the landowner plants a quarter-acre of something that blooms at the same time as the Frankenfood "seedless" oranges, and contracts for 500 hives at very reasonable rates. No law against insuring good pollination, now is there? "29837. Notwithstanding the establishment of a Seedless Mandarin Protection Area, a property owner located within a Seedless Mandarin Protection Area shall continue to have the right to farm any commercial crop without restriction. Any damages to a Seedless Mandarin Protection Area that result from an individual enforcing his or her rights pursuant to this section shall not be actionable." OK, my crop is HONEY. That's a commercial crop, and beekeeping is farming. I have a contractor bring in hives, and we spilt the crop, and its none of your business what my end of the deal might be. Dare I say "Slam Dunk" here? I'd advise honey producers to concentrate their hives strategically, saturate the Mandarin areas with bees while complying with the strict language of any law that might be ignorantly voted into force, and force the growers to address the real problem by removing the cross-pollinating varieties, or planting the newer "sterile" types. Remember the movie "Scarface", starring Al Pacino? It had some appropriate dialogue for guys with boxes full of our "little friend", the bee: "Do you want to play rough? Ok, let's play rough. Say hello to my little friend". ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:49:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:55:23 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: >>I was a bit confused, as Bob wrote on Monday, "Hopefully CCD is over, >done, finished!" > > >The above is what many believe ( perhaps Brian) which is that CCD was >overblown and not a serious issue. > I don't beleive for a skinny minute that we have a pandemic sweeping across the heartland putting every hive at risk. Since the beginning there has been a lot of information that does not add up. * loss stats clearly trumped up and do not add up as I have noted * no question it conincided with massive unusual winter losses in the north and NE * reliance on beeks to diagnose and report...how many CCD me too reports??? * CCD affecting a small # of keepers who have lots of colonies - does not suggest then a pathogen that randomly attacts any hive anywhere, we would see regional patterns which we do not. if a pathogen involved then might only be affecting hives exposed to too many mite treatments or other stressors....then it sounds like operator based and again not a "random" problem everyone should fear . * bizarre reports of comb not being attacked by pests or robbed out. as mentioned here it would not be that hard to find a chemical signature using analytical tools. this defies science and I find hard to beleive. * if its like past historical occurrences then not a man made problem and a scientific curiousity not a calamity. * given the secretive nature of some migratory keepers why would anyone beleive their survey or otherwise answers concerning their operations particularily the chemical inputs. as a rule I only believe info from migratory keepers I know very well. they have lots of good reasons to hold their cards close to their chest. as someone else said here, CCD is only serious if you have it. for the majority of beekeepers its not a serious issue. if I was a migratory keeper who has used a myriad of inputs into hive of varied concentrations I would be more worried then a stationary who uses minimal treatments. time tells the story and we have no story only reports. some well known researchers have said for years keep healthy bees and minimize treatments etc,reduce stress etc., some even predicted big losses. I think I'll take their sage advice before I beleive some bizarre tale of mystery that has more questions then answers after 9 months. Y2K, Avian Bird Flu, and now CCD? I think the glass is half full ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:21:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: CCD reporting In-Reply-To: <20070620.093202.10878.3753@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Deknow: I don't think we can be assured of stuff like this not being shipped. D- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:01:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Organization: Randy Oliver Subject: Re: Queens produced from combs where coumaphous (Checkmite) had been used MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >(Why has this not been reported in the magazines? Could it possibly be because queen producers are a major source of advertising?) Was reported--see references in my article in upcoming ABJ Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:50:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: USDA Honey Market News? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline * I don't know who is responsible for the "USDA Honey Market News" but the quality of the information has greatly slipped as of recent. In fact, there is an unbelievable ERROR in it of amazing proportions. >From the June 2007 "Honey Market News" I quote: > Reportedly CCD has occurred in 27 states with a loss of approximately 2.4 million colonies. It has been found in Europe, Brazil, Guatemala and Varroa is not suspected to be responsible. Noteworthy is that the high losses in bee stocks will translate to higher prices on honey and other related products. http://marketnews.usda.gov/portal/fv/honey The correct numbers would be: > In the mid 1940s, the United States was home to nearly 6 million managed bee colonies. In 1985, numbers were lower, though still strong, at about 4.5 million colonies. Then the mites hit. By 2005, only 2.4 million managed bee colonies remained, according to the USDA. [ 2.4 Million colonies! That is the figure given for the TOTAL number of colonies in the entire USA in 2005. According to "USDA sources", all gone now. I have heard of rumor mongering, but this beats it all ] -- Peter L. Borst Ithaca, NY USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:45:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Queen appeared dead-now looks fine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Two days ago (June 18th) I looked into a 5 frame nucleus colony into which I had put a queen cell on 24th May. The queen was running about on the first frame I pulled out, but was off it by the time I had it fully out. I subsequently found her lying on the floor of the box, apparently undamaged but unmoving. On closer examination her antennae were twitching a little but there was no other movement. She had clearly been mated OK as there were three frames of brood in all stages. I left the queen on a top bar, and came back today (20th June) with a further queen cell for the colony. I found the original queen marching round on a frame, apparently undamaged. On the grounds that there is nothing new in beekeeping, does anyone have a reference to this behaviour? I half recollect mention of apparent catalepsy as a defensive act by insects, but I cannot recall where. Regards Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorks UK ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:39:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Queens produced from combs where coumaphous (Checkmite) had been used MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Queen loss over six months was: control – 50% (inexplicably bad); >10 ppm – 45%; 100 ppm – 31%. I remember this study but I don't recall if it was discussed in this forum. It is important to notice that HALF of the control queens were gone after six months. With the 10 ppm the number was almost the same. 100 ppm is the maximum EPA tolerance for coumaphos in wax and I don't think it represents what you would expect to find. I seriously doubt whether queen breeders would use coumaphos on cell builders, anyway. Most queen breeders use either plastic cell cups or wax cups made from high quality capping wax. Queen rearing operations are very sensitive to chemicals and I believe breeders are conscious of these concerns. I realize supersedure rates are high, but I would suggest there is some other cause besides coumaphos, especially when you notice half of the untreated queens were gone in less than a year. -- Peter L. Borst Ithaca, NY USA http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:12:02 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > can we be assured that queen/package suppliers that > had enough problem with ccd that they were visited > by researchers didn't ship bees to customers that > were possibly infected? Sounds like a self-correcting "problem" to me. If a queen/package supplier had been hit by CCD, they would not have enough bees to meet orders, would they? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:14:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 20/06/2007 17:33:22 GMT Standard Time, monarch@SABER.NET writes: I have a hard time imagining how hedgerows could make such a meaningful difference. Mature hedgerows provide nest sites and alternative sources of forage when the 'target' plant isn't in flower. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:31:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, >it seems to me that there are 2 ways in which researchers should be paid/funded to go around and vist commercial apiaries that are having problems. To my knowledge USDA-ARS researchers can not charge for their services. 1. they are hired as consultants by the apiary, just as any business would hire a consultant to solve problems....the reports and data would belong the apiary that hired them. There are a few private trouble shooters. The most famous charges $300 an hour ( hey that's what most good lawyers charge!) and many have said the trouble shooter was worth ever cent. When you run a very large operation and you need advice on what type of treatment to do and advice on spending thousands of dollars then $300 hour consultation might be considered worthwhile. 2. what's the deal here? can we be assured that queen/package suppliers that had enough problem with ccd that they were visited by researchers didn't ship bees to customers that were possibly infected? Unless some "new" problem is found then package shipment can not be stopped. package bees are important to the industry. If you worry then do not buy packages. Raise your own queens. Make splits. The ONLY safe way I know of. Consider varroa was mostly spread by package bees as were tracheal mites. AHB has long been sent in package bees out of those AHB areas. Most SHB finds in states can be traced to package shipments. Certainly our Missouri SHB finds were traced back to a single shipper. Hobby beekeepers for the most part buy from areas of problems. Those full page adds gets um every time! Many commercial operations quit buying package bees out of AHB areas years ago. Quit buying package bees out of SHB areas (unless you live in an area of known infestation) but hobby beekeepers kept on. Sure problems could come from packages from an outfit with known CCD problems but before the USDA-ARS can even *think* of stopping the flow of packages they need proof the problem exists. Futile attempts have been made to stop package flow ( tracheal mites, varroa mites, AHB & SHB) but have always been unsuccessful. The migratory beekeeper was easier to stop so they took the heat for the package industry as migratory beekeepers understood the need for a strong queen/package industry. Migratory beekeepers were held up for brief periods until reality set in on the *powers that be* and movement was again resumed. Efforts to legislate away varroa,tracheal mites, AHB and SHB have not worked. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:18:20 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.com" Subject: Re: CCD reporting Comments: To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit from my perspective, i got packages from 2 differant suppliers. first shipment was supposed to be 5lb packages, what we got was 3lb packages. second shipment was 3 weeks late. so i would say: "if a a queen/package supplier had been hit by CCD, they might have trouble filling their scheduled orders on time." ...and my 2 suppliers had trouble filling their scheduled orders on time. obviously, there are always variables in getting packages, and i'm not in a panic that "because my packages were late, my supplier had ccd"...i'm not saying that at all...packages are often late and problematic. what i'm concerned about is that a member of the ccd team has told us that they visited queen and package production facilities, and observed ccd "at a critical time"...which to me means, "when trying to fill orders", or "getting ready to fill orders". common sense would indicate that such facilities should not be sending packages and queens around the county....unless the CCD team knows a cause, and knows that doing so won't "infect" other bees in areas where the packages and queens are shipped. deknow -- James Fischer wrote: Sounds like a self-correcting "problem" to me. If a queen/package supplier had been hit by CCD, they would not have enough bees to meet orders, would they? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:21:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron A Morris Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable deknow wrote:=20 > a member of the ccd team ... observed ccd "at a critical time"...which > to me means, "when trying to fill orders", or "getting ready to fill = orders". This is an important distinction. "A critical time" does not = necessarily mean "when trying to fill orders", or "getting ready to fill = orders", neither does it imply the producers shipped damaged goods. Any = assumption made is not what the researcher said. Furthermore, it is not = the responsibility of the CCD team to protect the beekeeping industry = from CCD. The researchers are trying to identify the cause of the = problem, they are not CCD police! > such facilities should not be sending packages and queens around the = county... Hopefully they did not. Perhaps they did. Regardless, the CCD team has = no authority to stop shipments one way or another. Such authority lies = with the inspection program in the production states and receiving = states. I do not know if there exists such an authority on the federal = level, but it certainly is not the CCD team's responsibility. And as = far as I know, Colony Collapse Disorder is not even on anyone's books as = a disease that will ban shipment of bees from producer to consumer. The = CCD Team is trying to identify the problem. No more, no less. Aaron Morris - the poster doth protest too much methinks. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:52:17 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.com" Subject: Re: CCD reporting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit aaron, you are correct, the ccd working group is not the ccd police, and they have no authority to stop shipments. ...i also understand that "blowing the whistle" on specific producers, or on producers in general for possibly shipping "possibly infected/affected bees" would make it harder to get information in the future. ...i also understnad that "a critical time" doesn't mean just prior to shipping, or that it means that bees from infected yards/operations/strains were shipped. but "a critical time" means something...and at this point i think it's only jerry that could clarify if he cares to. ...all this is true. yet, if the team is being funded by the us army and individuals (as well as beealert technologies). and the team has identified below what they are looking at currently as the most likely causes. all of these problems can "be shipped with bees", and many of them have potential to spread to other colonies, it seems to me that: "Regularly distribute summary reports to the bee keeping community" would imply that possible sources of contamination would be reported. and, imho, what jerry posted is provacative enough that he should clarify what was observed and when. i suppose i can't speak for the army, or for my local bee club for that matter. but to me, i expect that publicly funded research will always have an eye on the public good. now, i'll admit that personally, i subscribe to the concept that ccd is the same thing seen many times in the past, and it will disapear again before a cause is found...and perhaps the cause is some long term cycle. ...but these researchers in the ccd working group think there is a problem. the producers in question saw enough of a problem to call in the researchers, and the researchers thought it was significant enough that they needed to make an onsite visit to see and sample. ..and the researchers think this is important enough to the industry that the army, clubs, and individuals should contribute financially. if they aren't going to report that package and queen producers are shipping "affected" (if not "infected") bees (if in fact they witnessed this....that remains to be seen), then, imho, they are not doing what they have set out to do: “Exploring the cause or causes of honey bee colony collapse and finding appropriate strategies to reduce colony loss in the future”. not shipping affected bees seems to me to be an obvious first step to accomplish the above...at least until a non-contagious cause is identified. i really don't want to come off as confrontational, and it is not my intention to create enemies....but this is important stuff, and seems obvious to me. deknow The current research priorities under investigation by various members of the CCD working group, as well as other cooperators include, but is not limited to: • Chemical residue/contamination in the wax, food stores and bees • Known and unknown pathogens in the bees and brood • Parasite load in the bees and brood • Nutritional fitness of the adult bees • Level of stress in adult bees as indicated by stress induced proteins • Lack of genetic diversity and lineage of bees ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:39:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: CCD reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris's comments were concise and objective: We and other members of the CCD team are trying to resolve a problem, not play police. No one would be likely to ask any of us to come look at CCD colonies if they thought we were going to report/turn them in. Only a small number of affected beekeepers have been brave enough to publicly admit to having a problem. Who wants to rent colonies for pollination or buy queens or packages from someone who may have CCD? Just look at the recent posts on Bee-L. And, no one knows if CCD is a disease, so there's no authority to stop shipments AND no justifiable reason - can you jeopardize a beekeeper's business just because he/she might have an unknown, unproven disease? and - Is it possible that 'surviving' queens and bees MIGHT be the ones you want (possibly CCD resistant?). And if its a pesticide or environmental toxin, its a local problem, and non-contagious unless you buy nucs with contaminated wax or food stores - a transport and fate, not a disease problem. All in all, far too many unknowns. Jim Fischer's comments are also correct - this was in some cases a self-correcting problem. And, Bob Harrison has an important point, the only sure way to avoid problems is to produce your own, healthy bees and queens. Gosh, Aaron, Jim, and Bob all more or less in agreement - that may be historic. Now, in terms of who paid for studies, etc. Most of the members of the CCD working group come from federal government or state government (state inspection services) or academic institutions. Most of the federal and state folks can't charge for their services, since they are paid to do this work as part of their job description. Academics may draw on their institutional salaries to do this work, but many can and do charge for additional 'research' services (usually as grants, etc. that either provide summer salaries - not provided by their institution, or as some form allow them to buy out some of their university salary time). Some academics moonlight as consultants, over and above their university job. However, many institutions disallow or make this very difficult. However, I don't think any university person has gotten much, and I know that most haven't received any money to work on CCD. We at Bee Alert research work on many projects through the University (the basic research is done at the UM, such as our landmine and laser technology work), but we also work on applied problem solving via our University affiliated small business. Bee Alert Tech is a private business, and we do conduct contract work, where the client who hires us owns the data. Our CCD work has been conducted under the auspices of this business, Bee Alert Technology, Inc. - much of it on our own nickel, some on donations, the acoustic sampling under government funds, and some of the work as consultants, with new work that is being done under an award from the NHB to look at the chemistry of samples that have been sitting in freezers. These bee/pollen/comb samples have been awaiting external funding, since it costs significant amounts of money to conduct/contract the specialized chemical analysis needed to look for an unknown, yet possibly repellant or toxic chemical in the CCD colonies than might account for the absence of robbing, invasion by pests. We DO NOT have the answer to this question, not because, as Ames Farms says - 'this defies science', but simply because we've only recently acquired sufficient funds to launch this work. The first priority for funding of CCD projects was given, and rightly so, to providing for the search for viruses (at PSU) and pesticides (also at PSU) - and work at Beltsville. We were lucky enough to get some of the additional, later money from the Honey Board, but getting contracts in place and a payment schedule has taken time. In addition, the survey work and some of our sampling and inspections were conducted under private funds - which allows us to better protect confidentiality, like a doctor/patient or lawyer/client. It seems to be a good decision, because contrary to the comments from Ames Farms, about " the secretive nature of some migratory keepers.. and why would anyone believe... answers concerning their operations, ... the chemical inputs", we have gotten very candid and extensive responses to these questions, including the frequency of use of off-label materials. In fact, that's one of the things that has slowed our ability to analyze the data -- we have more information than we can quickly process, and far longer lists of substances than we ever imagined. We do note that many of our respondents checked a box indicating that we COULD NOT share their answers with state regulatory folks, and some didn't want their information to be shared by anyone, not even the CCD Working group. So, things are not simple. If the contrasting inputs/pressures that we have been receiving mean anything, we must be doing something right. On the one hand, we have beekeepers and associations lobbying us to ADD their state in case agricultural disaster funds are released, while at the same time, we have beekeepers and states lobbying us to DELIST their state because we may be adversely affected pollination rentals and sales of bees and queens. And some of these folks are very vocal and passionate. We do our best to call things as based on the data that we have at hand. We also are trying to be careful to avoid setting off unwarranted panics, such as boycotting specific beekeepers or states. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:32:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Queen appeared dead-now looks fine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike wrote: > On the grounds that there is nothing new in beekeeping, does > anyone have a reference to this behaviour? I half recollect > mention of apparent catalepsy as a defensive act by insects, but I > cannot recall where. No references, but I have certainly seen it a couple of times. Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:36:02 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Queens produced from combs where coumaphous (Checkmite) had been used MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > I realize supersedure rates are high, but I would suggest there is > some other cause besides coumaphos, especially when you notice half of > the untreated queens were gone in less than a year. Presumably the 'control' queens were mated with 'uncontrolled' drones? Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:28:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Queen appeared dead-now looks fine In-Reply-To: <46799FF7.26668.46EB13E@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike > On the grounds that there is nothing new in beekeeping, does > anyone have a reference to this behaviour? I half recollect > mention of apparent catalepsy as a defensive act by insects, This has cropped up on this list several times, but I cannot think of a selective enough keyword for archive searching. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:28:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Bee behavior and CCD In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I appreciate Jerry's willingness to post on this List. Most researchers would not, just because this is more an opinion forum than scientific. So here is another hypothesis (guess). The one characteristic that has intrigued me from the first is the disappearance of the bees. That symptom is similar to the same symptoms of Varroa and Tracheal, where both lead to the bees vacating the hive and dying away for the hive.It does not matter if the bees are foragers or nurse bees. They leave. This is very apparent here in the north with bees clustering outside the hive in freezing winter weather when they suffer from Tracheal. No one seems to know why they do it. Maybe there is something hardwired into the bee that causes them to remove themselves from the hive when they are diseased. It is not that they die of disease away from the hive because they are foragers, but they actively fly or crawl to remove themselves as an agent of disease. It would seem a logical survival trait in a close clustered society where proximity would lend itself to the spread of disease. Add the even more closely packed colonies in a commercial operation and you compound the problem. What would trigger such a migration? Some have seen such migration with Varroa spread virus where the bees will march out of the hive and die in masses in low spots away from the colony. In any close quartered society, epidemics and even pandemics are not uncommon. Maybe, with bees, there is a trigger that when disease reaches a certain level, behavior triggers the bees to move away from the hive. A pheromone could be involved. That would also protect the remaining healthy bees from visits from other infected colonies. So any major assault that reaches a certain level quickly could trigger such a response. You would then have some or all of the symptoms of CCD, but faced with the larger question of what caused the pandemic. Since behavior is the product of the pandemic, the agent could be anything that can spread quickly in adult bees, which tends toward virus and some fungal or bacterial infections. So CCD may be a behavioral characteristic of the bee and not a single pathogen. It might be caused by many things. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:56:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron A Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] Queen appeared dead-now looks fine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by mtnhoney@ALLTEL.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. -----Original Message----- From: Carl & Virginia Webb [mailto:mtnhoney@alltel.net] Mike, Queens sometimes will faint when handled. When they do they will receive special attention by worker bees and usually are soon revived. Only rarely do they die. Carl ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:03:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: MegaBee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has anyone had first hand experience with this new supplement? http://westernfarmpress.com/news/062107-bee-collapse/ (partial exceprt) DeGrandi-Hoffman and other researchers at the Arizona facility have worked tirelessly with Western farmers and beekeepers, who asked for the lab’s assistance in developing a nutritionally sound, enhanced bee supplement to foster healthier bees to meet Western agricultural demands. After four years of research, a new bee supplement called MegaBee is ready for production, with plans for market availability by August 2007. Available as a liquid and in a patty form, the new supplement is likely to be manufactured at Yuma, Ariz. “MegaBee was tested last fall and winter (2006-2007) on bee colonies getting ready to go into almonds. It was a good time to test because there wasn’t much out there for bees to forage on. Essentially they were living off the MegaBee diet. Results look very good,” DeGrandi-Hoffman says. MegaBee, developed through a joint endeavor with a private company, will join a handful of existing bee supplement products on the market. “To get our ARS science into the hands of U.S. agriculture, we set up a cooperative research and develop agreement with an ARS lab partner,” she says, “The research partnership ultimately delivers a product to market. The agreement is a win-win opportunity, she said. ARS invests its expertise into creating an enhanced bee diet, while the private company helps create the supplement and conducts research on other ARS bee projects. “The partner supports research monetarily and offers expertise that the ARS doesn’t have,” DeGrandi-Hoffman says. “We’ve worked with Gordon Wardell, who offers expertise in honeybee nutrition and microbiology. We have expertise in honeybee crop pollination and chemistry, so we partnered to create this diet.” Wardell, the creative partner, purchased MegaBee licensing rights from the government, DeGrandi-Hoffman says. She and the Almond Board of California and Grandi-Hoffman contacted Wardell to create the bee supplement. In his research, Wardell says, “I asked the bees” what they wanted to eat. “I put dishes of food on a table. The bees came nosing into it – it was a smorgasbord. At the end of the day, we’d weigh the dishes to see what the bees liked and didn’t like. Then we looked at the nutritional makeup and started combining and mixing until we had a formula for which bees had a high preference.” MegaBee, also called the Tucson Bee Diet, will first be distributed to major honeybee supply houses in 50-pound bags. Beekeepers then add their own sugar syrup to the mix. Pound for pound, the supplement is more digestible than natural pollen, Wardell says. “In Bakersfield we found, for a pound of product going in, that we had more square inches of brood coming out— even more so than with natural pollen. Wardell is the president of S.A.F.E. Research & Development, LLC (Sensible Alternatives for the Environment). ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:10:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: The onion and the honey bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know Bee-L is intended to be informed discussion, but a bit of levity can't hurt. For those who know and appreciate The Onion, the link below is worth examining. The link was sent to me by the curator of the C. C. Miller collection at UW Madison - the original home of The Onion. http://www.theonion.com:80/content/news/single_bee_sends_gathering_of Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:34:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron A Morris Subject: Re: MegaBee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Has anyone had first hand experience with this new supplement? No first hand experience other than following the progress of the = product and longing for its release. Gordy pitched the product at EAS = 2003 in Bodoin (pronounced Bowdon) and afterwards we went out for beers. = =20 Blatant plug for EAS 2007: http://easternapiculture.org/programs/2007/ If you can't make Gormanston this summer, Delaware is the place to be! = If/when you attend these events; you get as close as you will ever come = to doing the research yourself! But back to MegaBee: Pitched stats were very impressive, photos of bees = lined up cheek-to-jowl sucking the supplemental feed down, and my only = objection was paying shipment for a wet feed. I was told at the time = (I'm vague who told me) that the formulation would be available dry = (just add water), but it doesn't look that way at the URL Brian passed = on where it says the product will be "Available as a liquid and in a = patty form, the new supplement is likely to be manufactured at Yuma, = Ariz." Shipping will kill me. Will probably have to buy from a = distributor vs. direct and pay accordingly. I've encourage others with direct, intimate, first-hand participation = with the product development to contribute. In the meantime I'm looking = forward to seeing my bees cheek-to-jowl as I'm gaining the requested = first-hand experience. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:11:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bee behavior and CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill said: CCD may be a behavioral characteristic of the bee and not a single pathogen. That's a possability. Pathogen/Parasite specialist working with many different animals have noted that at some threshold the disease/pest may induce a behavioral response in the host. Suggestions are that the host may try to purge the problem (e.g., the so called lemming effect - I understand they may not actually plunge over the cliff) or this may facilitate dispersion (get the host to leave the population and 'spread' /vector it. Jerry ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:49:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: MegaBee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/06/2007 23:37:08 GMT Standard Time, AMorris@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU writes: If you can't make Gormanston this summer, Delaware is the place to be! So who's coming to Gormanston? It's a mile from the sea about 20 miles north of Dublin 23 - 28 July. Usually there's about 300 beekeepers in residence with about 3 top class lectures and a couple of workshops running simultaneously so you can't get to many of them which means you have to go back next year to catch the ones you missed, by which time they've changed the programme again. The all in price is very economical (look on the FIBKA web site for details or maybe Ruary will chip in and tell us); the only extras are transport and beer at the Cock Tavern. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************