From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:58:30 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD4949089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFhrps016524 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0707E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 96861 Lines: 2322 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:24:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: crop dusting (was CCD in Ferals?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, Hello All Joe posted: >“Pesticides are often suspected as the cause for honey bee mortality because many that are used on bee-pollinated crops are toxic to honey bees. Pesticides have long been an issue with commercial beekeepers. Today returning from the city I was pointing every three miles to a bee location. My friend asked: "Does the crop dusting bother your bees?" I said: "I have not seen a crop duster in this area in a long time" He said: "what about the crop duster in the soybean field." I looked and sure enough there was a crop duster spraying around 400 acres of soybeans at 3 PM when the bees were flying. I pulled up to the field but did not see any bees in the field. Blue flowers were about to bloom as we got a rain last night. I could smell the insecticide in the air. I honked my horn and tried to get the planes attention by making and a obscene signal with my finger but he left the field. I have got a yard of 24 hives about a quarter mile from the spraying ( easily seen from the air as the area is bare ground killed with herbicide around the pallets which stands out from the air. All boxes have got new white paint ). The yard had pesticide kill last year. I caught the county last year dropping off Hispanic workers and having those workers (with back pack sprayers) wade through the weeds spraying honey plants (noxious weeds) my bees were working in the middle of the day! I stopped and spoke to the workers but none said they spoke English. I tossed out a few choice cuss words and from the looks on their faces it seemed they did understand at least a few words. Again against label to spray when bees are on the bloom! Tomorrow I will go and check the yard for bee loss. If I get right on the situation I may get compensation but most likely will have to hire a lawyer if a serious bee kill. Last years kill might have been from crop dusting soybeans instead of the county weed spraying but I doubt the county will spray roadside weeds in my area after I screamed my side of the issue over the phone to the road crew boss. When you are right and the "other side" is wrong then you can behave poorly (which is not my usual way of doing business) but certainly drives the point home. We have had a period of around 10 days without rain until early this morning so I saw no open blooms on the soybeans nor bees in the field today.The rain last night might cause bloom tomorrow which will work out but the fact remains the crop duster was spraying against label in my opinion so Monday morning he/she will get a very nasty call from me! As you can tell I am upset and will vent my anger in the appropriate direction on Monday! Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 23:59:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill Truesdell wrote: >Could someone let me know what the identifying trait is between swarms >from managed colonies and those from feral sources? Didn’t Seeley do a study of ferals in the Arnot forest? How did he know they were feral? ;) The identifying procedure is simple: As swarms first settle temporary a short distance from the hive. If no hives are found to be present in the area, or the nest discovered, then you could have a reasonable assurance that it is from a feral colony. Often the nest can be discovered or the homeowner knows where it is. Research has shown that the median distance that a swarm travels is about 900 m, few swarms selected sites beyond 1500 m or closer than 300 m. In an area such as mine with abundant voids, it would be reasonable to assume that if domestic colonies are much beyond this range, swarms and trapped swarms found beyond that range are likely to be feral. Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:33:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mountaineer Subject: Newbie question about cleaning dead hives. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I am in SC, and for the first time was beekeeping this summer. I began = with=20 bees and queen from Rossman apiaries. I followed instructions from a = book ,=20 and all was going well with two hives, then at the beginning of June I=20 noticed one hive was acting differently, and then suddenly no activity = at=20 all. I looked inside at that point and it would appear the queen had = died=20 for I saw very little brood. I then looked in the other hive, and all appeared well. Plenty of = brood,=20 and a strong looking bunch of bees. On Monday of this week, it appeared business as usual in the hive. But = then=20 yesterday I noticed no bees at all, and they are gone. I see bumblebees and flies trying to get into the hives now, and thus I = need=20 to dismantle and clean. My question is on how to clean the frames and boxes. Do I just toss out = the=20 foundation and all and order new? and I know there must be a = recommended=20 solution to sterilizing cleaning the hive bodies themselves. I know this list is for more astute beekeepers, but by helping a newbie, = I=20 will become one of you in a few short years! Adam Puzerewski Mt Pleasant, SC Coburn WV "Mountaineers are always free" ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 08:09:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Comments: To: "J. Waggle" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bee Folks: Obviously some of the members on this List do recall that I am not, and have never claimed to be, a “purist” in beekeeping despite my long- standing commitment to keep bees via “apis-centric” view, the kind of sustainable beekeeping that always puts bees and their natural predisposition and interests ahead of my interests, in general, and money and profit-making and greed, in particular. Please note that I am not attacking any one particular person here [no ad homoniem please]; rather, I am arguing against certain kind of beekeeping practice, the philosophy often mistakenly considered as main-stream around here. To a commercial beekeeper, religiously mindful of the bottom line, annual requeening makes sense, for nothing beats the young queen’s vigor in egg- laying, a long-standing practice that totally ignores the well-received dicta among us that “beekeeping is local.” (One should, in my book, never lip-service this phrase if he/she requeens annually) For example, despite their explosive spring buildup and despite all the merits one must bestow on Carniolan bees in the north, they don’t do well in Oklahoma simply because 1) it is just too hot around here, 2) there are too many Italian bees to maintain a solid lineage, and 3) they shut down too quickly in July to take advantage of the ensuing fall foraging. Certainly, I too would like to maximize my profit by keeping bees via “profit [greed]-centric” beekeeping philosophy, the kind of practice best illustrated by a massive annual re-queening of hundreds of colonies with queens bred thousands of miles away, the sort of expandable queens that one can launder its generic and other strength in one season. And no more. Yet at the same time, practitioners of this profit-centric beekeeping have the gall to tell me what to do and how to medicate, etc, uninvited—-when in fact I may not need any medication at all, I do not operate under greed-centric beekeeping paradigm, and I refuse to requeen with Wal-Mart type, generic queens manufactured specifically for California climate, Georgia conditions, or Hawaiian weather, for last time I checked I still live in the People’s Republic of Oklahoma whose weather and local conditions are idiosyncratic. Even if one requeens annually, an experienced bee-hand will note that not all these queens perform uniformly well. Not all the imported queens thrive in spite of all the rhetoric— that they were rigorously selected (commercial-grade) and disease- resistant with proven productivity under a razzle-dazzle insemination and drone control—-just as not all swarm-capture colonies exhibit the propensity to swarm. My long-standing experience with feral bees (Bill, by “feral bees” I mean “the unkept colonies of wild bees that have survived the mites, and now CCD, thriving in areas where there had been no known beekeeper in the vicinity for decades) attests that they are resilient, and among them one can find excellent producers, given chance. Look at the size of their swarm! When was the last time you found a seven-deep-framer? (You must welcome them by housing them in two deeps of drawn combs to start with, for they came out of God’s hidden closet!) Since I am sticking my neck out here, let me say for the record that migratory beekeeping works against beekeeping in the long run. It simply is unnatural to stack up hundreds of hives in one locale. When was the last time you saw such congestion in nature? The situation is not convergent evolution, either. Almond pollination squarely puts greed ahead of the bees and I am not even talking about how migratory bees will accelerate disease propagation along the Interstate. Even if a bee- research project gets funded, I often wonder, “So, what’s in it for me?” “Why should I call anyone to help these guys’ bottom dollars?” For creating and giving me CCD? Name one legislative action that helped in the past a hobbyist or a sideliner although we are often lumped together for the benefit of a handful, treating us like expandable queens that have been sucked dry. When these folks fatten their pockets, why is it that we never hear from them? What have they done for the little guys? Nada absolutamente. Old ways of beekeeping mean dead bees and CCD’s. In new beekeeping, old experience is worthless, for that experience was based on old variables, long dead and buried in the dust bowl. It totally ignores that we live in a world that changes constantly: impermanance is the only permanance. Thanks for the opinions. Opinions are not facts. Facts are not the truth. Garbage in, garbage out. Yoon YSK HONEY FARM Shawnee, OK ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:25:58 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Could someone let me know what the identifying trait is >> between swarms from managed colonies and those from >> feral sources? > Didn't Seeley do a study of ferals in the Arnot forest? > How did he know they were feral? ;) Seeley's work in the Arnot forest is widely misunderstood by those who have neglected to read his papers. It just doesn't matter "where the bees came from", and Seeley himself has stated multiple times that he knows of beekeepers near enough to the Arnot Forest to be possible sources of bees to at least (re)populate the forest with initial swarms. Here's the basic point that he made about the colonies in the Arnot Forest area: The survival of the "feral colonies" was not due to any unique trait of the bees, but instead, due to traits in the local population of the >>>VARROA mites<<<. So, It just doesn't matter! http://unclebubby.com/wav/wav/MOVIES/Meatballs/doesntmatter-speech.wav It just doesn't matter one little bit if the Arnot Forest was populated with: a) a mythical population of "true feral" bees, b) initial swarms from beekeepers, that further swarmed c) 100% swarms from beekeeper hives, with only a tiny fraction of the swarms surviving as colonies for more than a single season. And breeding from that bee population will not result in bees with any sort of "resistance" to varroa or the many viruses spread by varroa. There never were any magic beans, and there don't appear to be any magic bees, either. Because the difference in the Aront Forest is in the VARROA, not in the bees. This is from Seeley's abstract: "The Arnot Forest colonies proved to be infested with V. destructor, but their mite populations did not surge to high levels in late summer. To see if Arnot Forest bees can suppress the reproduction rate of mites, colonies of Arnot Forest bees and New World Carniolan bees were inoculated with mites from an apiary and the growth patterns of their mite populations were compared. No difference was found between the two colony types. Evidently, the stable bee-mite relationship in the Arnot Forest reflects adaptations for parasite (mite) avirulence, not host (bee) resistance." http://research.cals.cornell.edu/entity?home=6&id=31234 So, the clear need here is to start a "Feral VARROA Project" where beekeepers use their colonies to produce more and more of these varroa that somehow manage to NOT kill their host colonies. These varroa, by not killing their host colonies off, would out-compete the varroa that do kill off their colonies, and become the dominant form of varroa in North America. But just try and convince anyone that this approach would work for varroa the way it worked in completely irradiating the Screwworm fly, and in controlling multiple species of fruit pests, including the infamous Medfly. Our task would be much easier, as we need not create a "sterile" varroa mite, or redistribute them over and over in the same areas each season, as was done to control these other pest insects. I've tried to get someone, anyone interested in this approach, but the usual reaction is "You want beekeepers to raise varroa-infested hives so that those varroa will infest all their hives? What are you, nuts?" We've had two decades of mostly fumbling and impotent efforts in regard to varroa, and we have as a result become accustomed to putting pesticides DIRECTLY INTO BROOD CHAMBERS. So I feel that "Thinking Outside The (brood) Box" is in order. But then, I always do. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:40:30 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> no one seems willing to step forward and admit something >> in public that would certainly defuse some unneeded hype, > Interesting, Now organic beekeepers are in a mass conspiracy. No, not at all. A conspiracy would require a level of organization hitherto unseen in connection with any aspect of beekeeping. They're just shy. Or embarrassed. > Feral swarm calls are only down only about 10 percent, > 20 percent at the very tops. Now this is a very interesting statement from someone who is running a "Feral Bee Project", as it should be obvious that "swarm calls" would not, by definition, imply that the swarm was in any way "feral", or from any colony that might be called "feral". >> Sharon Labchuk... > I don't understand why you assume the habit of attempting > to discredit persons instead of targeting what you disagree > with in their writings. Joe, I am surprised! Why would mentioning that someone was a member of the Green Party, a perennial candidate for election to local offices, and involved in the unfortunate PEI "Imidaclopid" situation be "discrediting" them? The point here was clear - that the "backstory" explains why Ms. Labchuck was predisposed to jump to the unwarranted conclusions to which she jumped. If you want to call that "discrediting", go ahead, but don't blame me for simply stating well-known and objective facts. My only reason for bothering to note Ms. Labchuk's recent history was to make the EXACT point I made: >> So, perhaps you can see that Sharon might have been >> just a teensy bit inclined to blame "pesticides" Accusing someone of some other agenda or intent is silly when the actual reasoning is made clear. > The CCD group has NOT eliminated pesticides from the list > of suspects Of course not. It will take the classical "smoking gun" to cross ANY of the suspects off the list. But if you listen, read, and ask questions, you encounter the term "pathogen" more and more. I think that says volumes. In regard to swarms, I've got two projects that I would be happy to invite others to participate in, both are colonies established in brick structures, both are several stories above the ground, and both appear to be fairly large colonies, given the number of sorties per minute. One is at Columbia U, and one is at PS-158 in Queens, NY. All participants would be signed on as 1099 contractors under a fully licensed and insured pest control company, and everyone would be covered by Workman's Comp and so on. We may be working from the "inside", or on scaffolds. Those with a fear of heights should sit this one out. I think that these "New York city bees" may provide the exact genetics you are looking for. Tough enough to survive and thrive in the midst of 8 million people (half who claim to be terribly allergic to bee stings), smart enough to set up shop in brick and concrete structures rated as "fall-out shelters" back when we were afraid of the Ruskies, and resourceful enough to find sources of nectar, pollen, and water in the midst of the "concrete jungle". These bees won't just sting you, they'll take your watch and wallet, too! :) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:42:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Comments: To: bee-quick@BEE-QUICK.COM In-Reply-To: <000001c7d1e4$004ea050$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>>> The survival of the "feral colonies" was not due to any unique trait of the bees, but instead, due to traits in the local population of the >>>VARROA mites<<<. Jim, I know the risk I take when I disagree with you but I live dangerously. I have to insert this. When I spoke to Tom after a presentation on this study he told me that since it wasn't the bees, there were only TWO other possibilities that occurred to him--the mites were different OR the life style of the bees was different. That is, smaller colonies and more swarming. This would also account for other folks who tout "ferals" as having some abilities. They just won't transfer to commercial beekeeping. Has he changed his mind in later writing? If not, you may want to correct your statement a little. (Tom, you must read this at least a little?) Dick Marron ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:52:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Jim! Thanks for responding to my letter! You seem more familiar with the experiment than I. I do have a few questions. Thanks in advance for helping me understand the Seeley experiment. James Fischer wrote: >The survival of the "feral colonies" was not due to any unique >trait of the bees, but instead, due to traits in the local >population of the >>>VARROA mites<<<. >…Because the difference in the Aront Forest is in the >VARROA, not in the bees. OK, here in the abstract, ‘you referenced’ what Seeley said: >colonies of Arnot Forest bees and New World Carniolan >bees were inoculated with mites from an apiary…” My question is: Seeley is assuming the KEY to mite resistance in the Arnot ferals is caused by the 'averlence of the mites in that population', Then mite avirulence must be already present in our apiaries because that’s where Seeley harvested his mites for the experiment, NOT from the Arnot feral honeybee mite population. Seeley did not use mites from the Arnot feral population, so how does this prove anything about the averlence of mites in this feral population when he did not use ‘said; averlent mites’? Please explain, Best Wishes, Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HoneybeeArticles ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am very sorry for having written my thoughts, written above, without the benefit of having a green tea this morning: I have misspelled "expendable," again and again. "Expandable" should be corrected as "Expendable." My deep apologies, and I regret my careless errors, for which I am totally responsible. Yoon ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:29:29 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification In-Reply-To: <000001c7d1ee$a99319c0$6401a8c0@NOTEBOOK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > since it wasn't the bees, there were only TWO other > possibilities... the mites were different OR the life > style of the bees was different. That is, smaller > colonies and more swarming. I guess someone (even Dr. Seeley himself) could repeat Seeley's test(s) using tree-hollow "bee gums", or hives with limited space (such as a single medium super), and allowing the hives to swarm as they wish, if they thought that "the secret" could be "management" rather than "the mites". No, wait - if we stop and think slowly, we can already prove to ourselves that small cavity sizes and constant swarming would be unlikely to make much difference by themselves: a) Both factors are common aspects of "beekeeper neglect". b) We clearly have a lot of that out there. Always have. c) Those hives don't magically survive any better than "well-managed" hives, in fact, they crash at a higher rate than well-managed hives. Therefore, if "neglect" allowed hives to survive varroa, we have had several decades to notice this, and it would have stuck out like a sore thumb. There ya go - one Gedankenexperiment, on rye, hold the mayo. > They just won't transfer to commercial beekeeping. Or even hobby beekeeping. Putting out constant swarms is about the fastest way to end up having beekeeping banned or regulated in one's town or county. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:45:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim, and all A lot of questions come up for me in reading Seeley’s paper. http://research.cals.cornell.edu/entity?home=6&id=31234 First, if as he states, the host parasite balance is/might be attained by successive generations of hosts passing their Varroa populations down from colony to newly swarmed colony (vertical as opposed to horizontal transmission), how long would this take? What kind of program would one devise to replicate this in a managed operation? Would it make more sense to try to get colonies to pass their mites on to successive generations of colonies in some way than to simply inoculate hives with already avirulent mites? How would you prevent continuous re-infestation from virulent mites and if this is inevitable, how do the colonies in the Arnot forest cope with this? I don’t know, something tells me there is more to this than meets the eye. My understanding is that Seeley inoculated the two types of colonies with virulent varroa, and they both responded the same which I presume to mean they both died. Did Seeley try to infest a managed colony with varroa from a stable forest hive to find out if that colony displayed the same ability to withstand the mites as the feral colonies? This would tend to eliminate the possibility that something in the environment other than unrestrained swarming is at play here. A lot of questions. Steve Noble ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:36:57 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: mark berninghausen Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yoon's statements may well be true. On the other hand I will quote the reaction of a long time successful commercial beekeeper who when asked about his opinion on CCD said, "Work your bees. Good old fashioned beekeeping is what will carry you through. Work your bees." The reaction of another longtime beekeeping friend was more along the lines of, "So, what else is new. This isn't going to stop me from keeping bees." And I dare say that CCD isn't going to keep those of us who are committed to beekeeping from keeping bees either. This is just another bump in the road. Now, if CCD continues to show up over and over again, year after year, and in more operations, then I may have to eat my words. Time will tell. Keep on keeping on. Work your bees. Mark Berninghausen Yoon Sik Kim wrote: Old ways of beekeeping mean dead bees and CCD’s. In new beekeeping, old experience is worthless, for that experience was based on old variables, long dead and buried in the dust bowl. It totally ignores that we live in a world that changes constantly: impermanance is the only permanance. Thanks for the opinions. Opinions are not facts. Facts are not the truth. Garbage in, garbage out. Yoon YSK HONEY FARM Shawnee, OK ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 17:31:51 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Newbie question about cleaning dead hives. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Hi Adam Your neck of the woods isn't my neck of the woods at all, so I'm going to misquote an over-used phrase here and declare that: 'All beekeeping is global!' First of all, welcome to the craft. And well done for wanting help with your problem *and* wanting to have another go. Tip number one: get in touch with local beekeepers. The talks, apiary visits, demonstrations, meetings will be interesting and very worthwhile. You will get from them an indication of what might be going wrong or going well locally, and you'll be able to call on someone when you see something you don't understand. Tip number two: learn how to identify queens, and mark yours. You will need to find her on a regular basis, and knowing whether or not she is there is crucial when you meet a problem. Tip number three: you need to learn how to read a colony. You've made a start with determining the presence of brood, but there is a lot more. Were there stores? In a poor summer some bees will starve themselves to death whilst producing brood if poor flying weather continues. Are there obvious diseases or parasites? Brood diseases, and Varroa mites. When a Varroa infestation gets heavy, the bees may abscond. Heavy Varroa infestations leave whitish flecks (faeces) in the bottom of the cells. Are there signs of acute poisoning? Dead bees at the front or inside the hive, bees behaving erratically. If it isn't starvation, or pests or diseases, or acute poisoning, then perhaps CCD or chronic poisoning (just maybe the same thing, despite Jim's posts!) is to blame. If its that, you're as much in the dark as we are. Can you re-use comb next spring? Maybe .... but the priority must be working out what went wrong. all the best Gavin ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:50:16 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Steve wrote this: > I don˘t know, something tells me there is more to this than > meets the eye. Hi Steve and All Tom Seeley does indeed ascribe the affect to changes in the pathogen: http://www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2007/01/m6063/m6063.html but he isn't necessarily right. Another explanation could be that forest bees are on naturally drawn comb, until transplanted into standard hives. Dennis Murrell and others have suggested that season, cell size and hygienic behaviour all interact, to the possible benefit of bees in feral colonies. More in the archives. all the best Gavin ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:49:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Moderators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I seem to recall that when moderation was introduced I was against it (but haven't checked the archives). As Peter says it is getting tedious at the moment, however, I tend to delete unread or skim read anything longer that 3 times the length of this mail. Chris (Thinking succinctness succeeds) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:58:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: CCD in Feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, You Wrote>>>>>Well, read what he wrote. At least read the abstract to which I linked, where he says: " Evidently, the stable bee-mite relationship in the Arnot Forest reflects adaptations for parasite (mite) avirulence, not host (bee) resistance."<<<<<<<< I've been thinking about this and it turns out you may be right too. This avirulence comes about because the isolated colonies, the many swarms, the small colonies (behaviors)--limit the mites to vertical transmission. They cannot travel by drifting bees etc. They must move from mother colonies to daughter colonies. To do this they cannot kill the colony. Selection is for those mites that are avirulent because every dead colony would be a dead end for the mites. If the behaviors change the mites will readapt. Bees and mites transferred to a normal apiary will quickly lose their immunity. The answer is that it is both mites and behavior. Dick Marron ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:16:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: walter weller Subject: Re: Raw Honey for Cancer & Severe Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill Truesdell said: Beekeepers, the recipients of both stings and honey, are not immune from = cancer. There are many on this list who have been down that path, and=20 some are no longer with us. Any Doctor recommending honey to cure cancer = walks with a distinct waddle. Quite so. I've kept bees for years, and while my arthritic hands seem = better, I had to have half my colon removed this year because of cancer. Walter Weller ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * = http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:00:01 -0700 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: monitoring of feral hives in the U.S? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Thanks, Yoon, that is a great shot and article. Are there any sustained, systematic, studies of feral hives in the U.S? Best, Kathy ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:59:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mike_Rippe?= Subject: Re: Raw Honey for Cancer & Severe Arthritis Comments: To: William Truesdell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > "The primary beneficiaries will be undertakers." Golly Bill, that's kinda a wide brush you have there... :) I have to agree that anyone whom tries to make claims that 'Honey Cures Cancer' or 'Apitherapy Cures Cancer' should get a long ride on a short rail!!! But I don't think that was the point - there are many associated side-effects that come with standardized cancer treatments. I'm wondering if maybe there aren't some benefits to having honey in a diet that would include digestive benefits (anti-microbial properties) or perhaps other similar benefits. [helps the trots maybe?] Can anyone speak about the side-effects of chemo and how they might be dealing with the bad aspects of a 'standard treatment'? That would be interesting to me. http://prostatecancer.about.com/od/longtermhelp/a/chemoSideEffect_2.htm - Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 07:12:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: CCD in Feral bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dick Marron wrote: >I've been thinking about this and it turns out you may be right too. This >avirulence comes about because the isolated colonies, the many swarms, the >small colonies (behaviors)--limit the mites to vertical transmission. It may also be due to inbreeding. Mites tend to inbreed anyway and to be stuck in an isolated colony means they may never have the opportunity to outcross with divergent populations. It may be that after a year or two of isolation, the mites have inbred themselves down to a pretty weakened state. Meanwhile, the honey bees continue to outcross and develop a vigorous colony. No beekeeper is coming along to requeen with a susceptible line. In a typical apiary, the mite population may have much more opportunity to cross breed with mites from other colonies and possibly from mites from other states which have been moved about by beekeepers. But -- I don't know who but an acarologist could confirm or deny these speculations. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:41:01 -0700 Reply-To: paradisehoneyfarms@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: SUSAN PETERSON Subject: pollen bound frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Any ideas for cleaning pollen bound frames? Thanks SUSAN ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:46:45 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Raw Honey for Cancer & Severe Arthritis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Beekeepers, the recipients of both stings and honey, are not immune from cancer. Poor immunity and cancer are the result of long term imbalance in the body that leads to cellular damage. If you don't remove ALL the contributors to the imbalance, you are much less likely to reverse cancer just by bee venom alone. If you are looking for a magic pill but are not willing to change the lifestyle that brought on the cancer in the first place, don't expect to reverse cancer. But bee venum does have proven anti-tumor properties and so can be employed as one weapon in the arsenal to help reverse cancer. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez? cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16485125&dopt=AbstractPlus Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:05:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Raw Honey for Cancer & Severe Arthritis In-Reply-To: <20070730.054645.15272.0@webmail03.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This topic is straying off topic. Please move it back to bees or take it to another list. Aaron Morris - BEE-L Owner/Editor/Moderator/Janitor ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:00:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: an overstated crisis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit just verifies what many beekeepers believe. http://www.lebanon-express.com/articles/2007/07/25/news/regional/region02bees.txt Honeybee ‘collapse' an overstated crisis By David Stauth, for the Lebanon Express CORVALLIS - The “colony collapse disorder” that has alarmed beekeepers and agricultural experts all over the United States is, in all likelihood, a normal variation on problems already known to plague North American honeybees, one expert says. It is not a new and mysterious syndrome. The cause of unusual levels of bee colony die-offs at specific locations probably relates to local weather issues, bee colony management, pesticide effectiveness, or locally severe concerns with known bee pests, said Michael Burgett, a professor emeritus of entomology at Oregon State University. Looked at in a broader geographical and historical concept, Burgett said, the existing situation is neither unprecedented nor particularly severe, and certainly not a cause for repeated claims that American agriculture is facing a crisis. Burgett is one of the world's leading experts on honeybees. He has done research on them for decades in many locations including their ancestral homes in Asia, Africa and Europe, and was the first scientist in the world to warn 25 years ago of the oncoming plague of tracheal and varroa mites that now are a major threat to U.S. honeybees. In recent months, numerous stories have filled the news with alarming stories of bee colony die- offs, an estimate of 25 percent losses in the nation's honeybee population, billion dollar crop loss concerns, and other issues. “Some losses have clearly been related to unusually severe winter weather in certain locations, especially in the East,” Burgett said. “And I think there may be some other issues we're dealing with, mainly variations on known problems that we can address with research and bee colony management. But the losses overall are just slightly higher than normal.” ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:00:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bees' Production of Antimicrobial Compounds Linked to Sociality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Antimicrobial Defences Increase with Sociality in Bees Biology Letters, Issue Volume 3, Number 4 / August 22, 2007, Pages 422-424 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/07/bees-production-of-antimicrobial.html ...Our results suggest that selection by microbial pathogens was critical to the evolution of sociality and required the production of strong, front-line antimicrobial defences. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:40:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: CCD in Feral Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: >>>>It may also be due to inbreeding. Mites tend to inbreed anyway<<<< I'll say. Since the foundress mite supervises while her son and daughters have sex with each other, I'd say inbreeding was a possibility. Is it harmful to the mite? Apparently not. Dick Marron ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:32:38 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Symptoms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Yes WEAKLY anti-viral. Thats why I said LOTS That is correct. People take studies that used just 100 mg or less of vitamin C and proclaim to the world it does nothing. :) C is 60- some times more toxic to viruses than to humans - not sure about honey bees - so one can use it intravenuesly etc. in large doses to hold the virus down while naturally developing anti-bodies to the virus. >>(C has little effect on bacteria or other parasites so...) C probably improves the health of these non-viral organisms. :) >><1gm to 3-4gm (dependant on strength), ideally /day In reality, weekly This amount of C to what amount of feed? >>No? I get the sense that they (dimly) realize that this is 'better' Did you notice any reluctance on the part of the bees to take up the feed laced with vitamin C? Did you have the luxury to check the vitamin C perfomance vs. control colonies on placebo? Did dwindling colonies treated with vit. C make a turn around? Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:05:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: CCD in Feral Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Peter Borst wrote: > >>>>It may also be due to inbreeding. Mites tend to inbreed anyway<<<< I do not know about mites in general, but for varroa is it not more 'tend' to inbreed? In a recent lecture Dr Stephen Martin told that mites are clonal, i.e. all varroa destructor are genetically identical. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:59:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: monitoring of feral hives in the U.S? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit see recent discussion (this week and last week) about Tom Seeley, He has a 25 yr or so study of ferals in the Arnot Woods. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:17:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: CCD in Feral bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For those graduate students searching for a dissertation topic on bee- biology or those bee-scientists interested conducting bee-researches, here, I believe, are potential topics regarding mite-transmigration: What could have been the original scenario where mites “discovered” bees, for the first time, as a potential host and hitched a ride to a hive? In other words, where have they [mites] come from? What were they doing before the discovery? My suspicion is that the mites did not appear in hives “ex nihilo.” More likely, they were living outside the hive, independent of bees, such as on a flower, eking a moderate living, sucking nectar and drinking dew, until they stumbled onto a niche—-a blood meal and a free ride to more blood meal. And then they finally discovered that the flesh of the brood was more tender and juicier for their young, speaking anthropomorphically. Even better, sweet-toothed Homo Erectus started to gather and “warehouse” their “milk-cows” in packages, helping mites, unwittingly, in the process. (According to my observations, all birds, other than the well-documented barn/martins, will also eat drones and queens under right circumstance; they are, like us, opportunists. So must have been the mites.) My rationale is based on the well-documented observation that certain hummingbird species also harbor mites in their nostril, among others, for the aerial transportation service; these mites lurk on a nectar source, waiting for the opportune moment to hitch a ride, for instance: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i3/hummingbird.asp Given such parallel circumstance that bees also collect nectar and that they also harbor mites, it appears probable that the first mite might have hitched a ride on a bee while living on a nectar source, rather than vertically transmigrated (from where?). No, I do not think this is just another chicken-and-egg problem. This new investigation will help us search for solitary varroa mites not on bees but potentially on flowers, thus opening up more controversy whether these mites were dropped off by visiting bees or dying and dead bees, or they were living independently, awaiting their chances. Could it be possible that America had mites all along, but it took hundreds of years, since circa 1859, for the mites to figure out how to take advantage of the apis, for I am not sure how they [mites] came into being here, not the first case-identification, but the very modus operandi, about which little is known. Could they have been imported not via infected hives but via a floral source, for example? Such investigation will be interesting in that we have already identified different strains of v. mites, for instance. Similarly, can we not identify mites caught in amber in South America and compare with modern ones since we have already identified ancestral stingless bee species caught in amber; I believe this study has already been done, perhaps. If possible at all, one can search for mites in apis-free zones; also, why don’t the mites attack other species of bees to such extent they do the apis? Is it a numbers game (more hosts in an apis colony than in masons or bumbles)? Given nectar is such a wonderful energy source and many other insects take advantage of it, other nectar-sucking insects should harbor mites, though not identical, do they? Regardless of the argument, such study can broaden our understanding of avirluence in mites, among others, perhaps shedding light in areas where we have not yet paid much attention to. Thinking out loud, ysk ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:17:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: WV Beekeepers Fall conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WV Fall Beekeepers Meeting - 2007 _WVBA Home Page_ (http://wvbeekeepers.org/) =20 This year the meeting will be held on September 21th and 22th at=20 _Jackson's Mill Center for Lifelong Learning & State 4-H Camp_=20 (http://www.wvu.edu/~exten/depts/jmill/jmill.htm)=20 _Directions to Jackson=E2=80=99s Mill_=20 (file:///C:/wvbeekeepers.org/Jackson's%20Mill%20Directions.html)=20 Lodging:=20 Lodging is available in Cottage, private rooms (older style buildings)=20 private rooms with private bath accommodates 1 or 2 persons at a single cos= t=20 suitable for handicapped or persons with mobility problems =E2=80=93 ground= floor =20 entry=20 or Lodge (modern motel style building)=20 a private room with private bath accommodates 1 or 2 person at a single=20 cost. =20 Rooms are =C2=BD floor up or down from ground level=20 To compute cost for the Cottage:=20 multiply the (# nights) X $46.=20 For example, 2 persons Friday only would be $46=20 To compute cost for Lodge:=20 multiply the (#nights) X $69=20 For example, 2 persons both nights would be $138.00.=20 To compute cost for meals:=20 Enter the number of persons for each meal desired and multiply the total=20 number of meals in the category (breakfast, lunch or dinner) by the base co= st=20 for that meal.=20 Make check payable to WVBA and send registration to:=20 to be announced soon as I get it. =20 WVBA=20 c/o WHO=20 STREET ADDRESS=20 CITY, WV ZIPCODE=20 Registration should be postmarked no later than the 10th of September. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL a= t=20 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:33:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Thompson Subject: Re: Symptoms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > used just 100 mg or less of vitamin C and proclaim to the world it does nothing. Quite so Pauling (who has some credability with me) recommended 10-20gm/day (of course even double Nobel winners can be wrong,probably not this time) >in large doses to hold the virus down while.... Yes in acute, critical viral caused disease can be very helpful (20-40gm/d). Other treatment should not be neglected, but is there one? Back to bees >><1gm to 3-4gm (dependant on strength), ideally /day >>In reality, weekly >This amount of C to what amount of feed? You missed the keyword "drench" (sadly in this day & age most only 'skim' -- sigh) 8 gm disolved in minimum H2O, added to 1 l HFCS or honey, in squeeze bottle. Don't use honey on stronger hives -->robbing Apply bead to top of all frames, repeat (~250 ml/hive or less) >>No? I get the sense that they (dimly) realize that this is 'better' >Did you notice any reluctance on the part of the bees to take up the feed laced with vitamin C? Only if I thought X was starting to increase Generally No reluctance >Did you have the luxury to check the vitamin C perfomance vs. control colonies on placebo? No. What would I measure? As I said a ramp inspection/count is crude, not very accurate I WOULDN'T BOTHER IF I DIDN'T THINK IT IS MAKING A DIFFERENCE. It's extra work & $ after all >Did dwindling colonies treated with vit. C make a turn around? Yes, so far. (Who knows what the fall will bring?) Here's a message to the nay-sayers I had 5 nucs, sick most likely with X They did not dwindle or go ccd They did lose 1 month or more to thier 'health crisis' They are now in full sized hives, 8-10 fr brood They were treated twice with formic & 15-25 times with C Fist formic was little pads 5x, 2nd formic full size pad(3 weeks) (alas formic makes them 'cranky', I have to run for veil) Of course if you don't have it your criticism is nearly useless If you do (have it) WRITE about how you are copeing dave ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:40:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 In a message dated 29/07/2007 16:23:24 GMT Standard Time, =20 naturebee@YAHOO.COM writes: The survival of the "feral colonies" was not due to any unique >trait of the bees, but instead, due to traits in the local >population of the >>>VARROA mites>=E2=80=A6Because the difference in the A= ront=20 Forest is in the >VARROA, not in the bees. =20 The point as I understood it was that where colonies are clustered in an=20 apiary the mites always have an alternative home in case of causing the hos= t=20 colony to collapse. When colonies are widely separated as in the Arnot fore= st=20 the mites have nowhere else to go so it is in their interest not to extermi= nate=20 the host. Tom didn't explain the mechanism though. =20 Chris=20 =20 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:44:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: More on CCD -Pesticide-Maker Gets Early Look At Bee Disease Report Unnamed Sourc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subj: More on CCD -Pesticide-Maker Gets Early Look At Bee Disease Report Unnamed Sourc Date: 07/30/2007 7:40:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time Have received this from writer and am now forwarding to group here to read. Regards, Dee A. Lusby ----------------------------- Hello Dee, I wrote this blog and wanted to share it with your readers. May you do this? http://www.thedailygreen.com/2007/07/30/pesticide-maker-gets-early-look-at-bee-disease-report/4540/ thank you for the beekeeper's email.. Maryam Henein Writer/Producer/All-around Raconteur ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:59:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Comments: To: Chris Slade Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris Slade wrote: When colonies are widely separated as in the Arnot forest >the mites have nowhere else to go so it is in their interest not to exterminate >the host. Hello Chris, I agree with that assessment, also resistance mechanisms on the bees part must be considered. In the past, it was stated that domestic colonies were being infested by varroa from the feral population thru absconding and drifting. Now it appears, to make Seeleys theory of vertical transmission causing mite avirulence work, ferals are now ‘since the turn of the century’ suddenly not absconding and drifting? Perhaps the facts are being changed to fit the theory. Boylan-Pett & Hoopingarner have recorded drifting between apiaries 600 meters apart, absconding honeybees are known to travel several miles. No telling how far disorientated varroa infested workers may end up. Then we have drones to consider traveling between colonies, carrying mites, all horizontal transmission. My mind is still open on this, but it appears there are allot of holes in the theory. And if I understand, Seeley used mites from an apiary and not said a avirulent mites from the feral population, to which I am eagerly looking forward to Jims explanation for this (as asked earlier). Best Wishes, Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' FeralBeeProject.com http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:42:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Josh Markle Subject: Extraction Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey all, Another cleaning question. I've just acquired a 36-frame power extractor. It is I don't know how many years old, but still runs. The beekeeper I bought it from kept it in pretty good shape and used it for years, but installed a different system about 10 years ago. Since then this machine has sat in a garage. I am looking for some advice on cleaning it up and what I should be using on the inside to keep it going in terms of lubrication. It is a tangential extractor, about 5 feet high, 1 1/2 feet deep, and 5 feet wide. I am interested in hearing about any mods, problems, insight, feelings, etc. about this type of extractor. I also bought an old sump pump that needs some tlc and hearing about some different set ups/operations would be great. Thanks as always, Josh ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:19:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: CCD Survey MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Peter, >However, when I read a paper authored by Dennis Van Engelsdorp, Robyn Underwood, Dewey Caron, and Jerry Hayes, I stand up and pay attention. I am not fool enough to suppose they couldn't be wrong, but these people did a lot of work and I respect their conclusions. Thanks for reply, so do I. I have been under the impression that much of the survey information was conducted by the beekeepers, of all experiences? Thought this might skew the data? Alden Marshall Hudson, NH 03051 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:23:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: CCD Survey MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Peter, >However, when I read a paper authored by Dennis Van Engelsdorp, Robyn Underwood, Dewey Caron, and Jerry Hayes, I stand up and pay attention. I am not fool enough to suppose they couldn't be wrong, but these people did a lot of work and I respect their conclusions. Thanks for reply, so do I. I have been under the impression that much of the survey information was conducted by the beekeepers, of all experiences? Thought this might skew the data? We have beekeepers here that think they have had CCD, which I doubt. There is much left to be said about confirmation as I see it. Alden Marshall Hudson, NH 03051 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:44:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ed_Geels?= Subject: Large Swarm of Bees in Central Iowa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A woman from Cedar Falls, Iowa called me tonight to see if I knew of anyone nearby who might be able to collect a swarm that has taken up residence in a small shed adjacent to her car port. She says its about basketball sized. Her phone number is: Home: 319-961-0039 and cell is 319-277-0489. Its over 150 miles or I'd do it myself. Thanks, Ed ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:40:27 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Newbie question about cleaning dead hives. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I am in SC, and for the first time was beekeeping this summer. Gavin has provided some very good advice so I won't repeat it. :) >>I looked inside at that point and it would appear the queen had died for I saw very little brood. This should not be the logical conclusion. Especially in feral colonies, bees make provisions for a new queen before the old one dies. The bees could have swarmed leaving behind little brood and a virgin queen. Did you rule this out? If there are some bees with the little brood you did see, I would meticuously check for a virgin queen. Keep in mind, virgins are not easy to spot. >>...this week, it appeared business as usual in the hive. But then yesterday I noticed no bees at all, and they are gone. The bees could have absconded in both cases. Were the hives in direct sun light? If you provided no top ventilation and don't use screened bottom boards, the colonies could have been stressed out by overheating and decided to look for cooler quarters. Do you think this is possible? >>My question is on how to clean the frames and boxes. Do I just toss out the foundation and all and order new? Why do you feel you must clean the hives/frames? Unless you find positive evidence of disease or infection, you can just re-stock the hives with new bees. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 06:24:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Large Swarm of Bees in Central Iowa In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Likewise, I'm too far away, but Cedar Falls is a lovely city to visit. It's home to the annual Iowa State ATA Trapshoot.for you shotgun enthusiasts. I always like to ask a host of questions when I get swarm calls and your e-mail sends up a couple of thoughts. You state that she said the swarm "has taken up residence" and is "basketball sized." I often find size and height lose their true perspective when describing a swarm. The swarm becomes much smaller in reality and is often much higher than described, often much higher than my ladder (or my common sense) will reach. Nonetheless, I'm often expected to sprout wings and fly as their hysteria grows to "I don't care. Just get those bees out of here!" I also try to explain that swarms do not take up residence, If I can't retrieve them, I explain how they'll move on to some other location. Unless, of course, they have, in deed, taken up physical residence in a hollow tree or the soffet of their house. Then you don't have a swarm, you have a colony. When I ask about the size, I'll get a description, but when they say this giant swarm is coming in and out of a small hole in the tree, then I know it's a colony and there is little I can do with exception of tout the benefits of bees in the neighborhood for pollination, etc. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 06:31:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Extraction Equipment In-Reply-To: <46AEAF9F.6080805@ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tangential extractors have the frames set with the outside of the extractor and need to be reversed. Radial extractors are the "pie shaped" like spokes on a wheel. Are you sure yours is tangential? It sounds awfully large for a tangential. What is the surface? Painted metal? Stainless steel? Is it rusty and pitted? A good scouring with an SOS pad and recoating with Camcote or other food-grade epoxy might be helpful. Is the manufacturer still in business? I bought an old Dadant extractor and wrote the company. They sent me a sheet of parts and plans. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:55:25 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I guess someone (even Dr. Seeley himself) could repeat Seeley's test(s) using tree-hollow "bee gums"... People like Dennis Murray (spelling?) have shown that bees transfered to TB hives survived mites w/o treatments. The best explanation was that the smaller cell size at the bottom of the naturally built combs was smaller somehow allowing the bees to rid themselves of most of the mites in the late season. The cell size from the middle of the feral combs I've measured has been consistently just under 5,0 mm. No doubt, feral colonies produce less brood and, by extension, fewer mites. These factors may be key to their survivor. As to many, feral to me means living in unmanaged conditions regardless of origin. I have yet to find a marked queen in a feral colony. Interestingly enough, the queen I obtained from a feral colony a month ago, is the longest queen that I have ever seen... I admire the vigor of the feral bees. Do they transfer well into managed colonies? Yes. Can they survive w/o treatment in managed colonies? I have not seen that - although one OA treatment in the fall makes mites a non-issue. Then again, my Pierco cells don't match the natural comb and in my hives they produce very large populations (a lot of potential for a lot of mites). Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:26:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Diotima Booraem Subject: Working bees In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:00 AM 7/30/2007, mark berninghausen wrote: >On the other hand I will quote the reaction of a long time >successful commercial beekeeper who when asked about his opinion on >CCD said, "Work your bees. Good old fashioned beekeeping is what >will carry you through. Work your bees." As a very small hobbyist beekeeper (who still feels like a rank beginner after 4 years) I am wondering about what parts of "working your bees" are for increasing honey production, and what parts are specifically for maintaining hive health? Of course maintaining hive health is crucial for honey production, but things like moving frames around to prevent swarming, feeding early in the spring to get numbers up, reversing brood boxes in the spring, and even requeening strike me as being mostly for the purpose of maximizing honey production, not keeping the hive healthy. By healthy I mean able to put by enough stores for their own use, and survive and thrive from year to year with enough build up to swarm occasionally and keep up the local population. So it seems to me that if one were "working your bees" for hive health alone, with no thought to maximizing honey production, there would not be much to do besides inspection, monitoring and -- depending on one's beekeeping philosophy -- treating for diseases/pests. Maybe swapping out broodnest frames for fresh foundation occasionally to keep pesticide residues down. Am I missing something here? What other "work" has the result of keeping/making the hive healthier -- which does not necessarily mean any more productive than necessary for the bees themselves -- and more resistant to CCD? I'd appreciate others' thoughts on this. Of course I realize that most of us wouldn't be going through the whole exercise of keeping bees if we didn't get at least some honey for ourselves, but I'm just curious about the reasons for what we do, and what "working your bees" means in the context of CCD prevention. Thanks, Diotima ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "If there is a better solution...find it" Thomas Edison Virtual Assistance: The better solution for small business. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Diotima Booraem, CPVA Virtual Executive Assistance http://www.virtualhelp.biz E-mail: diotima@virtualhelp.biz ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:49:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: CCD Sampling Comments: To: ccdworkinggroup@lists.cas.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Afternoon to All: We are interested in getting 'fresh' samples from CCD colonies. We've been in contact with beekeepers whose colonies either show classic CCD, and some whose colonies are unusually slow growing or dwindling. We hear rumors of others who may be having problems, but lack specific contact information. We have limited funds for travel, but are interested in getting samples from several areas of the U.S., and can make a couple of sampling trips over the next few weeks. We are interested in obtaining both bee and comb samples. We can't afford to analyze every sample that anyone might want to send or allow us to collect, but we do want to get a new set of samples representative of different geographical regions. We are particularly interested in colonies that have collapsed and are exhibiting the syndrome of an absence of pest (hive beetle, wax moth, robbing by bees). Finally, we are also interested in getting audio samples from colonies with specific pest and disease problems such as Varroa mites, hive beetle, foul brood, etc. Please contact us directly at _beeresearch@aol.com_ (mailto:beeresearch@aol.com) , or call at 406-541-3160. Thanks Jerry J.J. Bromenshenk Bee Alert Technology, Missoula, MT ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:20:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In case this hasn't been posted on BEE-L on happenings o/s. Dee Subj: [Organicbeekeepers] ccd Date: 07/31/2007 12:30:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time From: ooptec@gmail.com U.S. Congress Asked to Probe Farming Practices as Cause of Bee Die-Off Apitherapists issue ‘Passau Declaration’ on Honey Bee Colony Collapse Disorder (Passau, Germany, 3/25/2007) â€" An international group of researchers and practitioners of Apitherapy, the medicinal use of bee hive products, meeting in Germany today called on the U.S. Congress to investigate new farming practices as a possible cause of Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD). CCD, which results in a massive die-off of honey bees, was initially limited to hives in North America, but beekeepers in several European nations have recently reported a similar phenomenon. The cause or causes of CCD have not been determined. Experts say causes of CCD may include environmental stress, malnutrition, unknown diseases, parasitic mites, misuse of pesticides, or pollen and nectar collected by the bees from genetically modified (GM) crops that produce Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt). The problem could affect a third of the foods farmers produce and may have a severe economic impact. See: Are GM Crops Killing Bees? (Spiegel Magazine) See: Bee Shortage Could Sting Food Production (Fayetteville Observer) On March 29, the Horticulture and Organic Agriculture Subcommittee of the House Agriculture Committee will hold a hearing called "Review of Colony Collapse Disorder in Honey Bee Colonies Across the United States." The “Passau Declaration on Colony Collapse Disorder” was issued today at the conclusion of the 5th International Congress on Bee Products, Apitherapy and Apipuncture in Passau, Germany. It states: 1. We, the scientists, physicians, health practitioners and beekeepers participating in the Fifth International Congress on Bee Products, Apitherapy and Apipuncture, 2. Gathered here in Passau, Germany, in March 2007, 3. Determined to advance the understanding and use of Bee Products, Apitherapy and Apipuncture to promote human health and heal diseases, 4. Acknowledging the important role honeybees play not only in human nutrition and crop pollination, but also in the prevention and treatment of many diseases, 5. Dedicate ourselves unreservedly to the health and well being of the honeybee, the purity of bee products, and the livelihood of the beekeepers, all of which are increasingly threatened all over the world. We are convinced that: 1. The massive losses of bee colonies in the United States are a warning we should take very seriously, 2. Rapid changes in the earth's climate, ecosystems and agriculture are increasingly adverse to the survival of honeybees, 3. New pesticides and genetically modified plants are being introduced into the environment without sufficient research into their potentially harmful effects on honeybees and the purity of bee products. 4. There is a serious lack of independent research into the environmental impact of new products and farming methods, because far too many of the scientists and regulators in this area have close ties to the chemical and biotech industry. 5. The major losses of honeybees not only threaten our food supply, but also deprive us of many substances, that are of increasing importance to the medical community. As bacteria become more and more resistant to all available antibiotics, hospitals have to be able resorting to bee products, like honey, to control infections. 6. Some of the most promising antiviral substances are found in bee products like Propolis and Royal Jelly. At the same time, bee products are among most effective methods to boost the human immune system. Given the growing danger of a global pandemic with new virus strains like H5N1, the availability of such products in large quantities and high quality will be a key factor in our ability to limit the spread of such a disease. We are determined to: 1. Inform the public and the decision makers about the medical consequences of the continued decline of the honeybee population. 2. Call attention to agricultural practices that threaten the health of honeybee colonies and the purity of bee products. We are asking governments to: 1. Fund independent research into the environmental impact of new farming practices, before they are approved for widespread use. 2. Change the approval process for agricultural chemicals and genetically modified crops to require long term studies that also take into account sub-lethal effects on honeybees. 3. Tighten the rules to avoid conflicts of interest in the research and regulatory community, when it comes to assessing the risks associated with new products and methods. 4. Provide funding for research and training in sustainable farming and beekeeping methods. Contact: Walter Haefeker, member of the board of directors of the German Beekeepers Association, (Haefeker is also vice president of the European Professional Beekeepers Association.), walter@haefeker.de; Dr. Stefan Stangaciu, E-Mail: DrStangaciu@apitherapie.de or drstangaciu@gmail.com (www.Apitherapie.de) __._,_.___ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:53:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Today on the nationwide broadcast of "The Power Hour" the subject of CCD was discussed with call ins from all over the U.S.. The guests were David Hackenberg and Professor Joe Cummins (world renound geneticist). I discussed the issue by phone. Tapes can be had through KCXL in Liberty, Missouri and the broadcast can be heard at the "Power Hour" website by now . Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Subject: Re: monitoring of feral hives in the U.S? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1050_12696761.1185922649204" ------=_Part_1050_12696761.1185922649204 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only in small areas. The requirements (imho) for any meaningful feral bee study must include isolation from managed colonies. That limits the useful test areas (in all cases I can imagine) to places offlimits to beekeepers. I had pretty good luck in SW Arizona by utilizing the Kofa National Wildlife Reserve, and large Air Force and Marine firing ranges (5-7 million acres), both before and after the AHB swept through. Others (Loper, Sheppard, Schmidt, ?) did the same. My jars of alcohol-preserved bee samples, unfortunately, were dumped by the Tucson USDA lab after my retirement in 2001, but that is the usual approach to government research materials, even if irreplacable. I have copies of many morphometric analyses, but they are prob of little use with CCD studies. Mite studies of jarred samples could yield results years into the future, if labs and beekeepers would regularly save a few samples. It would not take much room or expertise, and might help answer questions in the future. Think ahead. - John Edwards, former USDA killer bee tracker and identifier, now in Vancouver, WA On Thu Jul 26 11:00:01 PDT 2007, Kathy Kellison wrote: > Are there any sustained, systematic, studies of feral hives in > the U.S? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ------=_Part_1050_12696761.1185922649204-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:29:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Josh Markle Subject: Articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a recent article on non-CCD die-offs in Alberta. http://www.businessedge.ca/article.cfm/newsID/15869.cfm ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************