From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:58:12 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.4 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866074908B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFkpIr016612 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0708A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 128018 Lines: 2916 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:27:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Newbie question about cleaning dead hives. In-Reply-To: <20070731.054027.4848.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>My question is on how to clean the frames and boxes. Do I just toss out the foundation and all and order new? Why do you feel you must clean the hives/frames? Unless you find positive evidence of disease or infection, you can just re-stock the hives with new bees. Freeze all the frames that have comb in them. This would include frames with honey, frames with pollen, and frames with brood, in fact, any frames that have more than foundation in them. Keep frozen for about a week and then wrap in plastic bags and thaw. The bags keep moisture from condensing on the equipment that was in the freezer which would encourage mold and mildew.The freezing kills all pests which would destroy your good comb, like wax moth and small hive beetles. Keep the stuff in the bags until ready to install new bees on the equipment. You might still have some problems with honey that hadn't been dried and capped. Even after freezing it might ferment in the comb. Good luck Mike in LA --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:04:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, After reading it seems a die off with unknown cause but not CCD. Is not CCD a die off with unknown cause? bob Ps. I got a report France beekeepers are getting a good crop and bees are doing great! -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 07:19:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Dragon flys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all: Question: Anyone seeing dragon flys in large numbers around their hives/operations this year? Got one beekeeper mentioning them in mid-west, and I know from years past they ketch and eat honeybees, and this beekeeper also raises queens and is having mating problems with queens failing to return from mating flights. Also thinking about it, used to know a person in Fla that used to have problems with dragon flys hurting his queen raising at times years back. Input please. Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mountaineer Subject: Re: Newbie question about cleaning dead hives. In-Reply-To: <435448.74167.qm@web53405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another reason I thought cleaning was necessary is they smell of vinegar.............. Adam P Mt Pleasant, SC Coburn WV "Mountaineers are always free" ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:00:11 -0400 Reply-To: "Keith B. Forsyth" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Organization: Keith B. Forsyth Subject: Re: [WL] [BEE-L] crop dusting (was CCD in Ferals?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Beekeepers in Ontario had a similiar problem with aerial spray = appllicators spraying sweet corn. You may wish to visit the OMAFRA Apiculture website, = http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/bees/apicultu.html = for further information. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** --=20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date: = 7/25/2007 2:55 PM ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:50:00 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>When colonies are widely separated as in the Arnot forest the mites have nowhere else to go so it is in their interest not to exterminate the host. I saw Tom Seeley's map with the nest locations. They are close enough to be robbed out [and the mites transfered to the new host locations]. The same would hold for any managed colonies near the forest. I doubt the mite difference between the forest nest and managed nest is significant. Virus presence or lack thereof might be a bigger factor. I have not heard that anyone has looked at virus levels in the forest colonies. I remove/collect feral colonies in suburbia and many of them undoubtedly originate from managed nests yet do just fine on their own. I am inclined to think the mite or virus types are different. Walemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 00:10:51 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Wet super technique. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have pulled off and extracted full supers recently leaving on the hives only unfinished supers. I am interested in having the bees clean out the wet supers BUT store the thus obtained honey in the unfinished supers. Does anyone have a good method for achieving this? In the past, I have tried placing wet super over inner covers but have often seen the bees store honey in those supers. I am trying to avoid this. Thanks, Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 00:10:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Almer's Apiary Subject: Re: Wet super technique. In-Reply-To: <20070801.171051.3128.3@webmail14.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar wrote: In the past, I have tried placing wet super over inner covers but have often seen the bees store honey in those supers. I am trying to avoid this. ********************* If you do not have too many, here's what works for me. Put them above an inner cover probably as you do now but turn them up-side-down and place an empty deep or maybe a medium between them and the inner cover. Obviously, the inner cover has to have an open vent hole. It has been my experience that honey in cells slanted down is quickly removed. I also use this method if I move combs from a wall or whatever into a hive. I turn the left over combs with honey up-side-down over a queen excluder where the inner cover would be and they clean them quickly. I never leave any open honey exposed to robbers. I always use an empty deep or medium and another inner cover on top preferably with the vent hole stopped up. It might be a little tricky keeping the frames in place. If so put a metal queen excluder on top and then turn the super up-side-down. The excluder will hold the frames in place during the inversion process. Flipping end to end instead of side to side also helps. Works for me! Bob Fanning Huntsville, AL USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 04:35:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Raw Local Honey Recommended for Allergy Relief MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII A Sweet Relief for Allergy Season By Barbara Gerry, Spokesman Review (USA), 8/2/2007 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/08/raw-local-honey-recommended-for-allergy.html Is eating local honey for allergy relief just an old wives' tale? Or can the sweet relief allergy sufferers seek from their nonstop miserable "cold" symptoms be as simple as eating two teaspoons of honey a day?... Because raw, unfiltered, unheated honey contains bits and pieces of pollen, it becomes a powerful immune system booster, according to honeybee experts… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:50:36 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Wet super technique. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Put them above an inner cover probably as you do now but turn them up-side-down and place an empty deep or maybe a medium between them and the inner cover. What a great idea, Bob! Thank you. Gotta love this list. :) >>It might be a little tricky keeping the frames in place. If so put a metal queen excluder on top and then turn the super up-side-down. I'll try inverting the empty super under the wet supers. It should stop the wet frames from falling down. Thanks again! Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:48:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lesli Sagan Subject: Re: Dragon flys In-Reply-To: <436409.842.qm@web51602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm in the Finger lakes Region of NY State. I don't have dragonflies around the bees this year, but in past years, I would usually see a few hanging around the hives, even resting on the tops. One difference is that I've moved this year, and my hives are, by necessity, no longer in all-day full sun. Perhaps dragonflies don't like dappled shade. Instead, I see them hanging around the pond and small stream behind the house, where the pickings are no doubt rich. Hornets are more abundant this year, the small yellow and black ones, and I usually see three or more feasting on dead bees outside my hives, or being escorted away by one of my girls. I'm intrigued by the blur of a hornet and honeybee locked together, wings beating madly, spinning like a top. On 8/1/07, Dee Lusby wrote: > > Hi all: > Question: Anyone seeing dragon flys in large numbers around > their hives/operations this year? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:01:07 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: gerapi Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E9tirer?= la cire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bonjour, Au préalable une précision : j’ai des ruches Warre avec cadres et cires gaufrées. J’ai beaucoup de mal à faire étirer la cire gaufrée. Comment inciter les abeilles à le faire ? Faut-il nourrir ? Peut-on le faire en toute saison ? merci. Créez votre adresse électronique prenom.nom@laposte.net 1 Go d'espace de stockage, anti-spam et anti-virus intégrés. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:13:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "their hiv=". Rest of header flushed. From: Eric Simms Subject: Re: Dragon flys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A"Question: Anyone seeing dragon flys in large numbers around=0Atheir hiv= es/operations this year? Got one beekeeper=0Amentioning them in mid-west, a= nd I know from years past=0Athey ketch and eat honeybees, and=0A this beeke= eper also=0Araises queens and is having mating problems with queens=0Afaili= ng to return from mating flights."=0A=0AHere in central Texas, I see a pret= ty steep increase in the dragon flies roaming and eating bees each August. = I can't raise queens in August, as we have a sharp dearth that starts earl= y in July and lasts through into September. But we have another issue: pu= rple martins and scissor tail fly catchers. They race through my bee yards= in the spring, in small flocks of hundreds, eating bees as they swoop down= between the hives. I have noticed difficulty getting queens mated once th= e purple martins and scissor tail fly catchers realize that a bee yard is e= asy pickins. But such is nature, you can no more fight it than curse the w= ind for blowing. It is the price for existing inside any ecosystem. =0A Un= fortunately, as humans, we want to optimize our results in everything we do= , and don't want to leave room for natural processes, we want to take them = over. I am deeply concerned by the beekeepers on this forum that report wa= nting to kill the birds, praying mantis, spiders, dragon flies, etc. that p= rey on their bees. Bees are a tasty little treat and bountiful supplier of= nutrition for both humans and wildlife. Let's keep it that way.=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A__________________________________________________= __________________________________=0ABe a better Globetrotter. Get better t= ravel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.=0Ahttp= ://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=3Dlist&sid=3D396545469 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:35:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E9tirer?= la cire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by jbluedun@VERMONTEL.NET to = the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of = previously posted material. ________________________________ From: Jeffrey Hamelman [mailto:jbluedun@vermontel.net] Sent: Thu 2007.08.02 18:49 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: [BEE-L] =E9tirer la cire Bonjour, Je ne connais pas les "ruches Warre", mais avec la cire gaufree dans les ruches Langstroth, il faut que vous nourrez les abeilles avec un sirop sucre, sauf dans les saisons dont il est une bonne "honeyflow." Le = meilleur temps serait au printemps. Aussi, si vous pouvez attraper un essaim, les abeilles-la seraient tres energique en etirant les alveoles de la cire. Bonne chance, Jeffrey Hamelman Hartland, Vermont ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 19:02:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: New Yorker Article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The New Yorker has an article on bees this week. Excerpts: One of the people that David Hackenberg called to tell about his dead hives was Pennsylvania's state apiary inspector, Dennis van Engelsdorp. Van Engelsdorp does not normally keep bees himself, but at the time that I went to visit him, a few weeks ago, he had eight hives in his yard, arranged in a horseshoe. Van Engelsdorp, who is thirty-seven, has a bearish build, thinning blond hair, and deep-set blue eyes. He lives in the woods about thirty miles west of Harrisburg, in a one-room cabin with an unheated porch that he sleeps on year-round. Like many people who started to hear from Hackenberg last fall, van Engelsdorp wasn't initially very concerned. He figured that the problem had to do with mites or—much the same thing—with one of the many diseases, like deformed-wing virus, that the mites transmit. (The fact that Hackenberg hadn't found any dead bees was odd, but sick honeybees often leave the hive to expire.) What convinced him otherwise was slicing up some bees that Hackenberg brought from Florida. Normally, if you cut open a bee its innards, viewed under a microscope, will appear white. Hackenberg's bees were filled with black scar tissue. They seemed to be suffering not so much from any particular ailment as from just about every ailment. "There was just so much wrong with them," van Engelsdorp recalled. "And there weren't any mites." * * * Dr. Ian Lipkin is the head of the Jerome L. and Dawn Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health. At the time that I spoke to him, Lipkin had just sent off a paper on C.C.D. to a scientific journal. He was reluctant to discuss its contents, for fear of jeopardizing its acceptance, but he did indicate that it contained what he considered to be a breakthrough. One patho-gen in particular was, in his words, "highly associated" with C.C.D. "My speculation would be that this particular pathogen is a trigger that takes an otherwise borderline population and throws it over the edge," he told me. "I think that's what we're seeing." Lipkin explained that the process of finding the pathogen responsible for an outbreak was "the same whether we're talking about encephalitis or diarrheal disease or hemorrhagic fevers or respiratory disease. You put up a candidate and then try to tear it down. And, if you can't tear it down, it's probably bona fide. That's how we do science." He wouldn't tell me what kind of pathogen he was talking about in the case of C.C.D., but soon I learned that it was a virus. I also learned that it was suspected that the virus had entered the U.S. on imported bees. -- Peter L. Borst Ithaca, NY USA http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:16:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dan_Grandy?= Subject: Queen Mating Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit does anyone know if a Russion Queen will mate with Italian drones? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 05:20:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Queen Mating In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes she will Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper labeeman@russianbreeder.com (337) 298 6261 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 05:07:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Study: Propolis Extract May Help Prevent Prostate Cancer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Study: Propolis Extract May Help Prevent Prostate Cancer Antiproliferation of Human Prostate Cancer Cells By Ethanolic Extracts Of Brazilian Propolis And Its Botanical Origin International Journal of Oncology, 2007 Sep;31(3):601-6 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/08/propolis-extract-may-help-prevent.html Propolis is a resinous substance collected by bees (Apis mellifera) from various tree buds which they then use to coat hive parts and to seal cracks and crevices in the hive. Propolis, a known ancient folk medicine, has been extensively used in diet to improve health and to prevent disease… Our results indicate that the Brazilian propolis extracts show promise as chemotherapeutic agents as well as preventive agents against prostate cancer. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:24:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: New Yorker Article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For all the crap published on CCD, that was a well researched and written article. What I found intruiging is if there truly is a new virus which came over with the Aussie packages, its ironic that D. Hackenburg replenished his hives with Aussie packages this spring. I guess we'll have to wait until more published reports come forth to be more certian. What would be interesting to know is if use of Aussie packages or interaction with other Aussie package bees in almonds etc is a common thread amongst the most affected commercial beeks who had CCD losses. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:57:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: New Yorker Article In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also could the Aussie bees be resistant and our bees are not? Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper labeeman@russianbreeder.com (337) 298 6261 Brian Fredericksen wrote: > What I found intruiging is if there truly is a new virus which came over with the Aussie packages, its > ironic that D. Hackenburg replenished his hives with Aussie packages this spring. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:25:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: New Yorker Article In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, "but soon I learned that it was a virus. I also learned > that it was suspected that the virus had entered the U.S. on imported > bees." Suspected? Learned? Virus?( please give source as virus issues since varroa go back two decades. Nothing new!) This is indeed a big leap to blame imports. Also even bigger for Brian to point the finger at the Aussie imports. Which will NEVER be provable so only hypothesis. Possible CCD causes: taken up by aliens bee rapture brought in with Aussie imports Researchers *say* the first CCD was last fall. In Florida the problem surfaced four years earlier. Also early reports on the USDA-ARS experiment using Hackenbergs deadouts and irridated equipment (and Aussie bees ) it seems that they are not having problems with the hives which were irridated. We do not need a rumor that the Aussie bees caused CCD. A answer so simple would have been found already. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:20:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Warre Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris wrote: "David: construe please. This was in the US BeeList." It reached me in corrupted form (see below). But roughly: "Hello, .........I have Warr=E9 hives with frames with foundation. I am having a lot of difficulty in getting the foundation drawn. How do you get the bees to do it? Should they be fed? Can one do it throughout the season? Thanks." If he is using Warr=E9's method he should not be using embossed foundation, just 5 mm plain wax starter strips. He should not be using frames, just top bars. He should feed nothing but honey if he feeds at all. He should only expect the bees to draw comb in a good nectar flow in the warm season. David Heaf Wales, UK=20 P.S. Warr=E9's book L'Apiculture pour tous is now translated and will go on the net as a PDF any day soon. =20 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:30:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jeffrey Hamelman Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E9tirer?= la cire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gerapi a ecrit (Gerapi wrote): > J'ai des ruches Warre avec cadres et cires gaufrées. J'ai beaucoup de mal > à faire étirer la cire gaufrée. > Comment inciter les abeilles à le faire ? Faut-il nourrir ? Peut-on le > faire en toute saison ? Je ne connais pas les "ruches Warre", mais avec la cire gaufree dans les ruches Langstroth, il faut que vous nourrez les abeilles avec un sirop sucre, sauf dans les saisons dont il est une bonne "honeyflow." Le meilleur temps serait au printemps. Aussi, si vous pouvez attraper un essaim, les abeilles-la seraient tres energique en etirant les alveoles de la cire. Bonne chance, Jeffrey Hamelman Hartland, Vermont ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 14:32:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Queen Mating In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dan Grandy wrote: does anyone know if a Russian Queen will mate with Italian drones? You might not like the resulting offspring. I've had pure Russian queens that have been superseded and not had any trouble (so far), but I have heard of other who claimed their supersedure queens produced some pretty hot hives. Charlie Harper who responded "She will."when answering the question if Italians will mate with Russians is probably one of the most authoritative persons about Russian bees and their traits. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 14:14:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: maryam henein Subject: Daily Green report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to share this report I wrote and hear your comments. I am = working on a documentary on the vanishing of the bees. I know this = problem was going prior to OCt. 06 however this is when David brought it = to the attention of the public at hand and beekeepers realized that the = bees weren't disappearing due to PPM.=20 How long has the US been importing bees from New Zealand and Australia = and why now? What role do you think pesticides play into this? thank you, http://www.thedailygreen.com/2007/08/03/scientists-know-one-cause-of-bee-= disease/4754/ maryam@vanishingbees.org ----- ****************************************************** ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 23:21:03 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Daily Green report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How long has the US been importing bees from New Zealand > and Australia and why now? Some of it, perhaps all is explained here: http://tinyurl.com/yqgvvt By an amazing coincidence, it can be found in the same Hearst News "publication" as your own article, and was put up by the editor only the day before the article you cited. More is explained here: http://bee-quick.com/reprints/apis_bc.pdf and here: http://bee-quick.com/reprints/regs.pdf and here: http://beealert.blackfoot.net/~beealert/ChemicalandBiologicalAnalysis.pd f and here: http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/042707EC.shtml > What role do you think pesticides play into this? Very little, if any, despite the general paranoia expressed by many, including the author of this breathless piece: http://tinyurl.com/2uyhjy Wait a moment... the same person offered two different and wildly conflicting explanations for CCD within a span of only a few days? Here's an idea... lets wait for the paper, and see what Jeff and Ira and the rest of the cast of this Cecil B. DeMille production can get published in an actual journal. I assure you the wait won't be too long. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:34:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Daily Green report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > What role do you think pesticides play into this? Shouldn't that read, what role, *if any*, did pesticides play, or did pesticides play *any* role? Otherwise the question is one that presupposes they did (and calls into question the OPs objectivity). If it was pesticides (and it doesn't look that way at present, but who knows what the future will hold) fair enough, but looking for an answer you *want* to find ain't science (with or without the capital S), and it frequently only lends itself to the confusion as opposed to the solution. Keith ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:15:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Field day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eleventh Annual Field Day at the Baton Rouge Bee Lab The USDA Honey Bee Breeding Laboratory and the Louisiana Beekeepers Association will hold the tenth field day on Saturday, November 4, 2006. The event will be held at the laboratory building and grounds near the intersection of Nicholson Drive (Hwy 30) and Ben Hur Road (1157 Ben Hur Rd.). This is about two miles south of the LSU football Stadium. Gates will open at 9:30 AM; activities are scheduled from 10:30 AM to 3:30 PM. A registration fee ($10 for adults, $5 for children) covers expenses including a catered lunch. The field day will include activities for both beginners and experienced beekeepers. A program is enclosed. The morning program is for beginners and experienced beekeepers together, but in the afternoon the two groups will have separate activities. Please select your afternoon group (as a beginner vs a person with some beekeeping experience) on the registration form below. Presentations in the morning will focus on a retrospective of the past ten years of research at the laboratory. In the afternoon, the group of beginners will be introduced to some aspects of beekeeping. The other group (experienced beekeepers) will have access to a number of activities concerning the use of resistant bees, management of pests and diseases, beekeeping management, honey extraction and marketing of bee products (see enclosed program). Those planning to attend must register by October 1 so the catered lunch can be arranged. For more information contact Allen Sylvester (225/767-9291), Sandra Hineman (225/767-9280), Alva Stuard (225) 261-2032), or the website for the Louisiana Beekeepers Association www.labeekeepers.org. -- Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper labeeman@russianbreeder.com (337) 298 6261 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:48:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Field day In-Reply-To: <46B49815.4010002@russianbreeder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A correction on the date (Saturday, October 13, 2007) Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper labeeman@russianbreeder.com (337) 298 6261 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 12:10:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: Propolis collection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've noticed over the last 2 years that one of my colonies produces a greyish, very light colored propolis throughout the supers. The color is unlike any other hives in the same location or propolis I've ever seen in hives elsewhere. Other hives in the same yard produce a brownish to reddish propolis. Anyone know if bees have fidelity to propolis collection or if it may be a function of bee race/genetics. Jerry Wallace Atlanta, Ga ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:01:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD in Ferals? swarm identification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When colonies are widely separated as in the Arnot forest >the mites have nowhere else to go so it is in their interest not to exterminate >the host. The key point that I glean from the Arnot and Gottland studies is the influence of a long, cold winter. Horizontal transmission is greatly decreased since colonies that die from mite stress during the winter are not immediately robbed, and the mites within are killed by the cold. Therefore, there is a strong selective pressure for mites NOT to kill the colony. In warmer climes, this selective pressure would not apply, since collapsing colonies would be robbed while their mites were still alive, and the mites would actually benefit by killing the colony, as long as there were other colonies around to be infested. Without human intervention, colony density in warm climes would likely decrease to the point that mite avirulence would become a benefit to the mite. But that is unlikely to happen, as beekeepers will keep restocking the bee population. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 12:21:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: maryam henein Subject: Re: Daily Green report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As someone who speaks and reads fluent French, I have read reports out = of France that detail imadicloprid's effect on the honey bee. The = pesticide is designed to hamper the navigational abilities of insects. = And that's just one of many pesticides.=20 As one beekeeper noted, "at a purely common sense level it is = inescapably=20 rational to say that insecticide is, by definition, antagonistic to bees, right? ...the idea of putting=20 insecticide in a beehive is inherently a little daffy." The beekeeper then adds that "Worshipping science can be just as faulty = as other kinds of idolatry." I find it strange that there are beekeepers out there defending these = products.=20 I am not saying this is the singular cause of CCD. As a reporter, I am = simply relating theories out there as 'wildy' different as they may be. = We don't know what is causing CCD. And it's not necessarily one singular = thing.=20 In general, it seems that some parties are determined to find a cause = for CCD stemming from Mother Nature such as a virus or fungus, instead = of thinking that the root cause lies in something man-made or because of = our programmed practices.... =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Keith Benson=20 To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu=20 Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Daily Green report > > What role do you think pesticides play into this? Shouldn't that read, what role, *if any*, did pesticides play, or did = pesticides play *any* role? Otherwise the question is one that = presupposes they did (and calls into question the OPs objectivity). If it was pesticides (and it doesn't look that way at present, but who = knows what the future will hold) fair enough, but looking for an answer = you *want* to find ain't science (with or without the capital S), and it = frequently only lends itself to the confusion as opposed to the = solution. Keith ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * = http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:18:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: New Yorker Article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:25:54 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: >This is indeed a big leap to blame imports. Also even bigger for Brian to >point the finger at the Aussie imports. Do you read any of the materials you are so critical of before firing off? The quote from the article is the following: "I also learned that it was suspected that the virus had entered the U.S. on imported bees." Since we have not had any mass importation of bees legally other then the Aussie packages and queens, its a no brainer to conclude the author was refering to the Aussie bees. Further more here is my quote "I guess we'll have to wait until more published reports come forth to be more certian. " Since this is a discussion board the concept is to share information and ideas. I felt the author gave us some pieces of the puzzle from what is currently unreleased reports. Its up to the readers then to fill in the blanks. I chose the OBVIOUS conclusions to fill in the blanks and then left a qualifier that we'll have to wait until more published reports come forth to be more certain. Its a strange, strange world US beekeeping lives in. We have clearly unsustainable beekeeping practices being done routinely in the commercial migratory sector. We then further risk our industry by reacting to the almond growers over planting by bringing in imported bees. How much more bizarre can the situation get? Somehow the US bee industry is being ram rodded by the almond growers and what 1400 large beekeepers? What is wrong with this picture? Who said they should be calling the shots? I'm sick and tired of my own passion and source of income being put at risk by a handful of people who appear to be looking at the benefits for a few and not giving a darn about the health of our honeybees and the ability of the large portion of beekeepers to practice their craft. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:48:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leif Woodman Subject: Small hive beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering what amount of small hive beetle has been found here in new York. Mark might know the best about how many hives were found with beetles in them during inspections. I was looking through one of my hives here in Niagara county and found one beetle under an inner cover. I saved it and compared it to a picture in some reference material just to be sure that is what I have, that was what got me wondering about how many other people have found any beetles in there hives around here. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:52:32 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Daily Green report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have read reports out of France that detail imadicloprid's > effect on the honey bee. We all have. Its been talked about endlessly. Ad nauseam, even. For what seems like years, because it has been years. Bottom line, if anyone saw the specific symptoms seen in France repeated here in the USofA, we beekeepers would have been the first to march upon the offices of Bayer Cropscience with pitchforks, hive tools, torches, and blunt instruments. Lucky for us we did not act so rashly. Bayer's been doing some serious work on the project, for free. I somehow doubt that they would have been quite so generous and cooperative if we had redcued their offices to a smoking ruin based upon mere impressions and innuendo. It may well be that one or more pesticides play a role in the gestalt of CCD. But stop and pretend you are a beekeeper for a moment - you have a choice between: a) pesticides applied to seeds in carefully-controlled tiny doses by a company that is forced to keep records and undergo inspections, one that can be easily sued if their products kill your bees. (Note that all the press about bees over the past year assures a sympathetic jury.) b) a farm worker, perhaps not having English skills sufficient to even read the pesticide label, let alone comprehend the technical jargon on the label, spraying pesticides hither and yon as he daydreams. c) a state employee, spraying with wild abandon in a vain attempt to control mosquitoes with an adultacide, when it is well known that only larvecides (applied to water) have any impact at all on mosquito populations. (In fact, such efforts are more "PR" than insect control, which is why they tend to be done during daylight hours, when bees are flying, in direct violation of label requirements and EPA regulations. PR must be seen to be effective. d) an air national guard pilot, who must fly (and spray) due to the declaration of an "emergency", such as a flood, but lacking both the navigational equipment and the training to fly at low altitudes at dusk or at night. So, he flies during daylight hours, and sprays under the banner of state-sponsored "emergency actions", exempt from nearly all pesticide regulations. Which would you prefer? I know that I would prefer the more modern approach. Most pesticide kills are a direct result of human error or malfeasance. The new pesticides really ARE much less toxic to bees than the old stuff. Eliminating the human-error scenarios can't hurt, can it? We walk a very thin line. Our pollination customers are heavy users of pesticides, and they certainly don't want to kill our bees. But in a service business like pollination, the first rule has to be that you don't yell at the customer. > "the idea of putting insecticide in a beehive is > inherently a little daffy." Yep, this has been noted countless times. We wish we had a better way. People are working on such better ways. Maybe some of them will pan out, prove to be of long-term value, and prove to be able to "scale" to operations larger than 100 hives. Hope so. But in the meanwhile, people have kids to feed, bills to pay, and pollination contracts to meet. So, yes we DO put miticides into beehives. Yes, we are very very well aware of the irony. Beekeeping will likely be the last segment of agriculture to abandon organophosphates. Some beekeepers put these chemicals into their brood chambers. Now that's ironic. > "Worshipping science can be just as faulty as other kinds > of idolatry." There is no worship. In fact, the entire process is one of NON-worship, with each and every conclusion and claim made subject to a full range of challenge, critique, and scorn if it is in any way less-than bulletproof. So, if there is any "belief" or "worship" it is belief in the process of skepticism, and a trust that some young gun looking to make a name for him or herself will build some street cred by taking on any less-than perfect reasoning or less-than adequate datasets, or less-than rigorous statistical treatments. Yep, that's right - the only belief is in the strict policy of non-belief and universal skepticism as applied to the work at hand. Maybe that's worship of rationality. If so, fine. > I find it strange that there are beekeepers out there defending > these products. A lack of baseless indictment is not "defense", nor is calling to account the irresponsible attempts to indict by those having little or no data to prove their claims. I wonder sometimes what the agenda actually is of people who want to distract the attention of all and sundry, but I have watched enough 3-Card Monty games to suspect such misdirection of having a purpose. If you want knee-jerk reactions like "chemicals are bad - nature is good", you certainly came to the wrong place. Along with industrial-grade skepticism, the other basic ingredient you'll find around here is some Mil-Spec pragmatism. So, we are not about to point blame in the wrong direction just because it might "feel good". I don't think anyone is "defending" anything. But the lack of tangible proof for the claim is important to point out, as it directs us to look elsewhere, in more productive places. > As a reporter I am simply relating theories out there as 'wildly' > different as they may be. We've yet to see a single story in "the press" that did not contain at least one massive, knee-slapping, ROTFLMAO, completely bogus statement or conclusion, often an attempt at "insight" by someone who could not pick out a drone from a worker bee at a 2-foot distance. Yes, there is certainly is no shortage of "theories" out there. While theoretical physics somehow still maintains some shred of legitimacy, there never has been a field of "theoretical beekeeping". Beekeeping is 100% "practice" and our mantra is that "Theory is the same as practice, except in practice". We often get into very long heartfelt disagreements about issues of practice, so don't expect us to show wide-eyed amazement at the fact that different people have different opinions. 'Cause without things like "controlled studies", "statistical analysis", and whatever "peer review" is possible in such a small an obscure field as ours, what one has is nothing more than mere opinion, and the bulk of opinions aren't worth the paper they aren't written upon. > We don't know what is causing CCD. Correction - you don't. Some other folks think they do. They seem to have convinced the publishers of a science journal that they have sufficient proof to back their statements up. I think we should hear them out. If they can support their contentions with facts, we will listen. If they can't, we will slice, dice, puree and mince them and their data so as to make sure that any tiny shreds of fact don't go ignored. Heck, that will probably be done regardless of the level of proof provided, as there seem to be "World Trade" implications, so there are people who well get paid good money to make baseless arguments both pro and con. But as I said, we'll just have to wait for "the paper", won't we? > And it's not necessarily one singular thing. That's a contention in its own right, one that would require more than opinion to support it. Of course there may be multiple factors at work here. But if there are, they will likely be found one by one. We are well-acquainted with the "X + Y + Z = Boom" equation, but we have to admit that the forces being focused on the problem are more "analysis" than "synthesis" in nature. No problem, lots of things get solved one piece at a time. So, turn the crank, and see what comes out the slot. Better than sitting around contemplating the "interconnectedness of all things", and the futility of our feeble efforts in the face of such overwhelming complexity, dontcha think? Just to prove my point, a series of contrasting views are sure to be offered, as even my non-controversial statements are certain to prompt rebuttals and comments from those who see things differently. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 01:36:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Greg Brown Subject: Re: New Yorker Article In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a problem with blaming the Aussie/NZ bees for CCD. One of my concerns is that D. Hackenburg gets treated as CCD case No 1. I have listened to several Florida based commercial/migratory beekeepers complain about losing large numbers of hives with the same or similar symptoms dating back to the summer of 2003. Their complaints, and questions were ignored, and these beekeepers were told that they didn't know how to keep bees, and to shut-up and go away. Mr. Hackenburg, was able to use industry clout, and stubbornness to get an inspector to listen to his problems, and get a university research team involved, that's why there is a different outcome for him. IMO I believe that ground zero is/has been Florida, similar to Tracheal, and Varroa mites. If that is the case, then the Aussie/NZ bees are not the culprit, as they first made their appearance in California, then on to Missouri (article written by Bob Harrison). What imported bees that did appear around this time (02-03) was AHB. Florida received to distinct importations one from Mexico/Central America that came into Port of Tampa, and the Port of Mobile. And another from Africa into the Port of Miami/Everglades. If, which I believe, ground zero has been Florida, then the Aussie/NZ could not be the culprit. One story that I heard from one of the beekeepers, was that he would lose 5 out 6 hives on a pallet, and the sole survivor would show AHB type aggressiveness (this was just prior to Florida admitting that it had AHB), he could split the remaining hive to restock the pallet, requeen the entire pallet, the hives would do well for a while, then show the same symptoms. Another factor that can not be ignored is that Canada has been importing these same bees for about 20 years. If the bees carried this pathogen that is causing CCD, it would have shown up long before now. Most of know that the Aussie stock , US stock co-mingled in some Canadian operations throughout the period. Another culprit may not even be a Honeybee. I have not fully found out what effect shb has on honeybees. I know David Westervelt did some studies that were directed more on how to deal them, i.e... Clean honey house, healthy bees, limit empty space etc.. But my concerns are more towards does the shb act as a vector for viruses, is there strange bacteria in the slime, etc.. If anyone has information on this please let me know. With these questions I have, I believe blaming Aussie/NZ bees is just like when cell phones were blamed for causing CCD, it isn't based in hard science yet, and to speculate and point fingers is way premature. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 01:15:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Howard_Kogan?= Subject: location,location,location Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Since most of us agree that all beekeeping is local, please include where you live when you post. thanks, Howard Kogan, Stephentown, NY ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:55:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Daily Green report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit maryam henein wrote: > I find it strange that there are beekeepers out there defending these products. I find it amazing that you would think that what has been written is a defense of these products. > I am not saying this is the singular cause of CCD. As a reporter, I am simply relating theories out there as 'wildy' different as they may be. Certain authors word choice, and the way they have posed questions suggests that they are not merely relating theories, but rather that they are already convinced that pesticides play a proximate role in CCD and will try to prove that assertion until the cows come home, data be damned. > We don't know what is causing CCD. And it's not necessarily one singular thing. > No one said it was. I believe some folks have merely stated that you do not have the data to back up any assertions. That is all. Don't read more into it than that. If you have the data, trot it out. > In general, it seems that some parties are determined to find a cause for CCD stemming from Mother Nature such as a virus or fungus, instead of thinking that the root cause lies in something man-made or because of our programmed practices.... > Actually, it would seem that some are determined to lay blame at the feet of pesticides, despite the fact that they haven't got any facts to back up such an assertion. Theories yes, but facts? Not yet. If blame belongs at the feet of the pesticides, well and good, but to say so as a fact, as some have basically done, is daffy at this stage of the game. Someone appears to have an agenda here. Keith ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 07:16:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: location,location,location In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Howard Kogan wrote: Since most of us agree that all beekeeping is local, please include where you live when you post. thanks, Howard Kogan, Stephentown, NY ************************************************* Some of us don't want to give exact locations. Soooo, might consider general location such as LA (Lower Alabama). I'll even be more exact, I'm located just about 1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile. For our purposes, climate, I think that should be close enough. Don't you? Mike in LA --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 11:50:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: New Yorker Article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetikngs Folks: First of all, the interesting article has been penned by an imaginative (full of fillers), investigative journalist, not even a green hand in “bee- having,” for this type of article is often given to a freelancer (typically a “Reporter at Large” in The New Yorker) as a writing assignment, a dabbler that pokes at a controversial issue for mass- consumption and money. Otherwise it should have appeared as a *scientific* article in, say, Nature, with Work Cited pages and Bibliography. None of that but anecdotes and interviews here. (Elvis’ fans, when *interviewed*, will swear the King is still alive and kicking!) Thus, one should not jump to a conclusion simply because the author is an excellent observer; rather, the writer, as she notes, is not an expert with years of *practical* beekeeping experience. The situation might be different with a scientist, say a microbiologist, who examines a pathogen, for examining a pathogen(s) has been the focus of his/her life. The same journalist, in fact, can write another compelling article on the Demise of Bumble Bees in America, War in Iraq, or Intelligent Falling Theory for that matter, but the List members should be mindful that “How likely is it that an unknown journalist can single-handedly identify the font et origo of CCD pathogen when ‘researchers’ and ‘scientists’ so far cannot?” The article typifies another media sensation: CCD is sensational, thus a good seller. Couched in Latinate nomenclature and technical jargons, the article proves that the writer had done her homework for the assignment; for example, she fastidiously and meticulously, in Prufrockian fashion, remembers to record Latinate scientific names for many bees and technical jargons, such as “metagenomic analysis” to establish what College Freshmen Composition I class calls, “the Writer’s Authority,” a vital component in rhetoric that helps the reader to trust the author. And she does a good job, proving that she did her homework, indeed. Any arm-chair philosopher, however, could have given this type of “padding” with fillers. In practical matters, however, she fails to convince me that she has any practical experience of beekeeping, which highlights the entertainment value of the article, and never scientific. Here are two examples, among others: “On my return home, I relayed what I’d learned to my husband. I told him I was opposed to the nail approach, and he said he was opposed to an electric fence. Ultimately, we settled on a third option, not recommended by anyone. We ran a wire cable between two trees, about twenty feet off the ground, and attached a pulley to it. Then we mounted the hive on a platform that could be raised and lowered by rope.” Hardly an American Inventor. A hanging hive, IMHO, is not ingenuity but the exact blooming opposite; surely, one can expect something like this from Harry Potter, an excellent childrens’ book I will never bother. No green-hand in beekeeping would entertain such impracticality, however, let alone the danger its fall might cause, not to humans, mind you, but to the bees and the queen, in particular. (The more moving parts, the more problems) Another example attesting that this is just a journalistic report appears in the following: “As for my honeybees, they seem to be doing fine. After their unfortunate fall, I was worried that the queen might have been crushed or perhaps suffocated by her nervous attendants, an accident known as ‘balling’.” I have never seen “attendants” (from the same hive) BALL a queen in the way the author describes here, regardless of the circumstance, which convinces me that she does not seem to understand the term she uses so broadly. On the contrary, the queen pheromon has a calming effect on attendants and workers as it forces them into a cohesive unit; in an earlier episode, she did describe how, after the bear attack, the remaining bees clustered, presumably with a queen. The said fall, in this incident, would not change the smell of queen pheromon although the workers might fire off alarm bells, which is not likely to trigger a regicide, a tremendous leap of logic. Her credit, I must confess, is that once again she brought the issues of CCD to the national forefront, regardless, stiring up the mud a bit thicker, reducing the clarity. YSK YSK HONEY FARM OK ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:34:55 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: New Yorker Article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg wrote: > Another factor that can not be ignored is that Canada has been importing > these same bees for about 20 years. If the bees carried this pathogen that > is causing CCD, it would have shown up long before now. This is a big question for me, too, Greg. Besides Canada, how about the purported source--Australia? I've contacted some Aussie beekeepers to see if they've been experiencing losses down under. Their almond pollination season is beginning--one correspondent just brokered in 45,000 colonies. If there was a devastating virus rampaging about Australia, one would think that they would notice. Maybe they're missing something, but they are not reporting large losses. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 16:45:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Fwd: the cover article in Science News this month dealt with CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_cc8.16bb4bc5.33e790ea_boundary" --part1_cc8.16bb4bc5.33e790ea_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/5/2007 6:57:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cabellwaynebeekeepers@gmail.com writes: I feel is is a great summary of where the research is today. You can read it at: _http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070728/bob9.asp_ (http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070728/bob9.asp) -Dan O'Hanlon Russ Dean _WV Beekeepers Home Page_ (http://www.wvbeekeepers.org/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** --part1_cc8.16bb4bc5.33e790ea_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11157_23368827.1186322258790" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I feel is is a great summary of where the research is today. You can read it at: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070728/bob9.asp -Dan O'Hanlon ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** --part1_cc8.16bb4bc5.33e790ea_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:59:18 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Daily Green report and origin of CCD Comments: cc: MGoodwin@hortresearch.co.nz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello All, Dr Mark Goodwin of HortResearch here in New Zealand who works full-time on honey bees says CCD has not been reported in New Zealand, and New Zealand has not exported bees to the U.S. New Zealand bees have been exported to Canada for many years, and to a range of other countries. Regards, Barry Donovan New Zealand. Visit our website at http://www.crop.cri.nz ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:31:52 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Pigs and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone any experience of keeping pigs and bees in the same field? I have just been told that one of my heather sites now has two 14 week = old pigs in it! Their sty is probably 50 yards from where I normally = put the bees and apparently they do not go over there often - it is a = large field. Will they cause a problem? Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:10:26 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Daily Green report Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>b) a farm worker, perhaps not having English skills sufficient to even read the pesticide label, let alone comprehend the technical jargon on the label, spraying pesticides hither and yon as he daydreams. It's not this simple. At least in the state of Washington, you must be trained and certified to be a pesticide applicator. At least in that state, the spray application is tightly controlled. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:48:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Daily Green report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---- "waldig@netzero.com" wrote: > At least in the state of Washington, the spray application is tightly controlled. When done by someone who is following the rules . . . this is not always the case and the opposite is true with some frequency. Keith ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 09:00:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Small Hive Beetle in NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Leif wonders how prevelent SHB is in New York. I live near Albany and have been seeing SHB for the past 5 years or so. Initially, I saw it in a yard I was using to trap pollen. Two of perhaps 20 hives with traps had the drawers full of SHB. I put them them (and the pollen) in a plastic bag, froze it, and then burned the contents. They presisted for about 2 weeks. I never saw even one larvae or adult in the hives! Since that first year I have not seen larvae in the pollen traps. It is relatively common to see SHB on the inner covers. They run like heck, with bees fast on their trail. Last year I forgot a nuc box with drawn comb and it sat untended until mid-September. I opened it and expected to see wax moth. Not a wax moth larvae was in sight, but it was 'full' of SHB larvae...what a mess! Intellectually, I knew I could save the frames and the box but emotions took over and I burned the lot! TAKE THAT, YOU JERKS! Here in Eastern NY I'd say that SHB are more or less as common as wax moths...and are more or less the same problem. Strong hives are not troubled and they both primarily succeed because of beekeeper mistakes. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 14:26:42 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: SHB & pollen traps.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lloyd, >>Initially, I saw it in a yard I was using to trap pollen. A bit on a tangent - how often do you remove the pollen from your traps? Is every other day frequent enough to prevent pollen deterioration in the summer heat & humidity? >>Here in Eastern NY I'd say that SHB are more or less as common as wax moths...and are more or less the same problem. Yikes! I have not seen SHB in my hives (or ferals) on Long Island (downstate NY) but they are bound to show up with packages sooner or later... Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:30:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle in NY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lloyd wrote: > I put them them (and the pollen) in a plastic bag, froze it, and then burned the contents. They persisted for about 2 weeks. Boy, that is persistent! Joking aside, I have seen them in large numbers in Seneca and Cayuga counties. Also, in stored honey supers in Tompkins County. When the larvae get going in a stack of honey supers, they make a horrible mess. -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 11:10:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Janet A. Katz" Subject: WNYC NY Lehrer Piece on Honey Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Lehrer on 93.9 FM WNYC (streaming from www.wnyc.org ), will have a piece on honey bees in about 10 minutes at 11:20 AM, Monday, Aug. 6th. It will have the author of The New Yorker Piece and Jeff Pettis. Will be in the archives on their website if you miss it live. Is streamed from their website. Janet A. Katz Chester, NJ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 13:05:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle in NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've never had a problem reusing the frames or boxes from hives that were overcome by SHB, but I do boil the frames and use a propane torch to clean up the boxes and frames before I use them again. I don't entirely agree with comments I read that strong hives aren't at risk. I've observed that my strongest, best producing hives often have the highest numbers of SHB population in late summer and fall. On one occasion, the inner cover was black with them. In discussing the problem with a UGA researcher, my recollection is that the IPM level for SHB here was around 200 beetles. Treatment method that works for me is to manually kill all SHB observed in those hives that look at risk with a hive tool. Usually, I find a majority of the beetles are located on the inner cover or in the side frames of the top super. Jerry Wallace Atlanta, GA ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 13:21:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Removing pollen from traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Waldemar asked "how often do you remove the pollen from your traps? Is every other day frequent enough to prevent pollen deterioration in the summer heat & humidity?" I'd say that every 2nd day is enough, but is pushing the envelope. Please keep in mind that I am talking about the Sundance trap, where the pollen is relatively well protected from the effects of drizzle or thunderstorms. If it was a front-mount trap, pretty much any precipitation would totally ruin the pollen. I personally do my best to collect the pollen daily, but don't cry or curse if I miss a day now and then. Once I went away for a week and completely forgot to shut off the traps on an entire row of hives in a yard. Fortunately it was in the fall and when I returned every trap had 2-3 pounds of beautiful pollen, with no clumping or other indication of deterioration. I got lucky. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:32:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle in NY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jerry Wallace wrote: >I don't entirely agree with comments I read that strong hives aren't at >risk. In North America, beetles appear to be able to readily take over even strong colonies with little resistance by the bees. A few beetles can produce masses of larvae. In addition to consuming the resources of the colony, according to a study by Dr. A. E. Lundie (Union of South Africa, Science Bulletin 220, 1940, 30 pp.), the adult beetles defecate in the honey causing it to ferment and run out of the combs. Full honey supers stored in the honey house or on hives above bee escapes, and weak hives with honey but few bees, seem most vulnerable to attack. When small hive beetle infestations are heavy, even in strong colonies, queens will stop laying eggs and the bees may abscond. MAAREC.cas.psu.edu ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:42:46 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Removing pollen from traps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>If it was a front-mount trap, pretty much any precipitation would totally ruin the pollen. Yes, I have a front-mounted trap. Even though the tray is well- protected, I don't like this concept. Bees cluster on the drawer and I have to remove the entire trap, brush off the bees, then open the drawer. When I am done, I have to re-install the trap. It might be a little better if the drawer slid out the side instead of the front. I really should build a Sundance trap. The drawer opens up to the back without disturbing the bees. Does the Sundance trap remove a percentage of the pollen the bees are bringing in or 100%? Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:59:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Sundance trap question In-Reply-To: <20070806.114246.8188.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Should the excape cones face upwards or downwards on the Sundance trap? Mike in LA --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:13:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Pesticide Applicator In-Reply-To: <20070806.051026.12913.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "waldig@netzero.com" wrote:in the state of Washington, you must be trained and certified to be a pesticide applicator. In Alabama, as a private citizen, I have access to a lot of pesticides and I don't have a certification as a pesticide applicator. May be on a small scale, but I think as a farmer I could get quite a range of pesticides. Will have to check on that. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 04:14:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Washington Post Article Looks at Use of Honey in Wound Healing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Washington Post Article Looks at Use of Honey in Wound Healing Could Honey, an Ancient Remedy, Make a Comeback in Contemporary Wound Care? By Eric Frederick Trump, The Washington Post, 8/7/2007 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/08/washington-post-article-looks-at-use-of.html …Manuka has also attracted attention because, in an era when the efficacy of pharmaceutical antibiotics is under threat, it has shown some promise in the treatment of wounds infected with especially challenging bacteria, such as methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), the superbug whose incidence increased 32-fold in U.S. hospitals between 1976 and 2003, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Manuka dressings have been in use for some time in Great Britain and Australia as well as in New Zealand; earlier this year they were cleared for use as an antimicrobial dressing in Canada; and last month the Food and Drug Administration cleared them for use in wound and burn care -- though not as an antimicrobial drug -- making them the first honey-based products cleared for medical use in the United States… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:18:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron & Eefje Subject: Re: Removing pollen from traps In-Reply-To: <20070806.114246.8188.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another angle to this: Have you guys that collect much pollen from your hives ever considered what the consequences are for the colonies when they are deprived of the pollen for longer periods? After all, one of the bees naturally required food sources is suddenly taken from them and this must have an impact on their well-being. Nowadays loaded with other external interrupting factors like mites, diseases, viruses, polluting agents and our strangely behaving climate and also depriving the bees the inflow of their pollen may well be their neck shot! Aren't we a little too greedy here? Ron van Mierlo ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:19:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle in NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Wallace wrote: >I don't entirely agree with comments I read that strong hives aren't at >risk. Peter posted: > according to a study by Dr. A. E. Lundie (Union of South Africa, Science Bulletin 220, 1940, 30 pp.), When SHB entered the U.S. the above study was about all you got when you searched the net. Quite a bit is now known but little published work except for Jamie Ellis. I do not believe researchers have said strong hives were not at risk but rather that strong hives are the best defense. Which is what I also believe. We now know that although SHB can be found in most hives in an area of known SHB most SHB live away from the hive but enter a hive for the most part to reproduce. Kind of like the tree borer which lays its eggs at the base of a tree. There are many definitions of *strong hive*. Strong hive in my opinion means a hive when you tilt the top box the bottom of the frames are covered. You smoke the frames and the bees move away but are back in a couple minutes. In Florida you see very little SHB in the above hives. The SHB numbers seem to go up the weaker the hive from my observations. However some races seem to tolerated SHB more than others. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 08:03:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Escape cones on Sundance Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Mike asks "Should the excape cones face upwards or downwards on the Sundance trap?" Unfortunately, the answer is "it depends". The original Sundance trap is meant to be bottom mounted; mounted directly on top of the bottom board. This is the trap with the Luan cover. The cones on this should face down; that is, the narrow opening should be closest to the bottom board. This is because the bees hesitate to enter the narrow opening, when they are entering the hives with pollen, so are 'forced' to go through the stripping screens. However, we also have a top mount trap, the Sundance II. This trap does not have a Luan board, but has the same stainless steel escape cones. When installing this trap the narrow end should face up, for the same reason as given above. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:20:33 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Removing pollen from traps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Have you guys that collect much pollen from your hives ever considered what the consequences are for the colonies when they are deprived of the pollen for longer periods? In my neck of the woods, with 3 deep nests, about 1/2 - 3/4 of the frames in the bottom deep is fully plugged up with pollen by the end of May. With strong nectar flows in June, only 1 in a 100 bees may be coming back with some pollen. You'd think they were not raising brood but it's just the opposite! Brood rearing is peaking. They simply have sufficient pollen stores. I set up my trap at the end of July. The trap collects about 40% of the pollen coming in. The bees are not deprived of pollen. Not all is taken from the bees - it's the same as taking surplus honey from the bees. Unless there's a drought situation, there is always plenty of pollen for the bees to collect around here. The only thing I wonder about is the trap's effect of nectar collection. I put the trap on my strongest colony. It seems this colony has collected less nectar than its neighbors since I put on the trap. This may be an anomaly. I don't have my hives on scales to tell for sure. My observation is based on looking at the frames in the supers. Waldemar Long Island, NY ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 08:26:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pollen collection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ron questions whether those of us who collect pollen are being greedy and depriving our bees of to much of their natural sustenance. This is not an uncommon thought, or statement, but AFAIK demonstrates a lack of understanding of how bees collect and horde pollen. The following information is based on documentation in Dr. Tom Seeley's wonderful book, *The Wisdom of the Hive.* 1. At any one time, approximately 20% of the bees in a hive are 'doing nothing'. Seemingly, sitting around waiting for something to happen. More practically (perhaps) being held in reserve in case they are needed. 2. Honeybees collect pollen and nectar on the same trip. Often from the same flower. 3. Honeybees can somehow calculate the amount of stored pollen in a hive. When the pollen collected is equal to approximately 15% of cells available, they stop collecting pollen, even if it is readily available from the nectar sources they are visiting. In this regard, they treat pollen different from nectar. Honeybees will collect nectar until they run out of space, thus the enormous excess that we harvest as honey. We estimate that our Sundance traps collect about 60% of the pollen being brought in. It could be 40%, or it could be 70%. I am reasonably sure it is not 30% or 80%. Some indices are: 1. With traps on, our hives accumulate enormous numbers of frames plugged with pollen. This is during Goldenrod season, but I understand the same is true during almond pollination. 2. If one observes bees going through the stripping screens they will see that the bees somehow learn to go through 'sideways', and only lose the pollen from one basket. Likewise, if one watches bees inside a hive containing a pollen trap one will see plenty of bees with a full pollen basket on one leg and ample amounts of pollen on its body hairs. 3. Some researchers want to prevent *any* pollen from entering a hive. (Presumably, they supply protein from other sources.) These have complained that our escape cones allow too many bees to enter the hive with full pollen loads. One said he estimated that 20% of the bees entered the brood nest via the escape cones! In summary, by collecting pollen we are no more harming the bees than we are by collecting honey! Everything in moderation. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 08:28:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Collecting Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Waldemar asks "Does the Sundance trap remove a percentage of the pollen the bees are bringing in or 100%?" AFAIK, the Sundance trap collects about 60% of the pollen entering the trap. Please see my longer reply (today) to Ron's statements on the same subject. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:27:08 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: From Frederick, MD to NYC area. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Will anyone be travelling from Frederick, MD (1 hr west of Baltimore, MD) to NYC or Long Island bet. 8/13 and 8/17? We are getting a number of queen cells from a breeder there and would prefer to avoid the rough handling in the overnight delivery. It would be great if someone could bring this small package up. We'd compensate with some gas money. Thanks, Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:33:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle in NY In-Reply-To: <000b01c7d891$0ba3f320$20bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would also attest to the reality that strong hives are not necessarily resistant or resiliant to ward off the SHB. I have one yard that is crawling with SHB, mostly because it is so shady. For weeks as I tried to trap the SHB, they would decimate my smaller hives, recently caught swarms, nucs, etc. Then yesterday I found two really stout hives completely abandoned. Interestingly, the bees appeared to have moved to another hive, judging by the packed entrance. Perhaps they made the recipient hive stronger, and hopefully, resistant to the SHB. I am also have great success with the "sandwich" container traps found in the June Bee Culture. I am also moving some of these hives to sunnier locales. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:37:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: D. Hackenburg In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D. Hackenburg comes up often as as spokesman for CCD since he says he suffered its consequences. It is also known that he was told last year when in Maine in blueberries that his bees would collapse from Varroa if he did not act then. Maybe it was CCD, but with the warning followed by the predicted collapse, as a scientist, I would not base any CCD findings on his colonies, even if it is CCD. Too much cause and effect at play. But it appears that is exactly what is happening. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 09:47:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Removing pollen from traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ron & All > consequences are for the colonies when they are deprived of the pollen for longer periods? Collecting pollen has had little effect on the bees from my experience. Only a small percent gather pollen and when you trap the hive sends out a higher number of pollen gatherers. Pollen traps can effect honey production if used during a nectar flow by using bees which would normally be nectar foragers but I see no adverse effects with pollen collection if strong hives are used and the pollen collection is stopped if needed. We pull full frames of pollen at times in the Midwest to give the queen room to lay eggs at times. Of course all beekeeping is local. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Missouri -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:28:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Shawn Hoefer Subject: Time of day? In-Reply-To: <8710c8c90708070922j734e9c37n2d5a0988b7066ce0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline We're very new to beekeeping. We started with 2 foundations and we want to add supers. We know it's a bit late in the season, but this is the first opportunity we've got. Should we work the bees in the morning, evening or afternoon? We live in north central Arkansas and the temps have been around 80 with high humidity. Thanks, Shawn -- +---- Shawn Hoefer www.laffing-horse.com +---- ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:14:39 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron & Eefje Subject: Re: Washington Post Article Looks at Use of Honey in Wound Healing In-Reply-To: <20070807041414.84d281a5f2f7df0ef38485a84124037d.9c45f90cc2.wbe@email.secureserver.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On this subject: Are you aware that the anti-bacterial properties of West Australian Jarrah honey is many times higher than the Manuka honey? So if honey in general is named for the wound healing properties then Jarrah honey should be named foremost. Just a shame that the Jarrah honey is more scarce, particularly with the die-back disease minimizing the number of these coastal trees and it doesn't help either that Jarrah trees do not flower each year. Ron van Mierlo ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:25:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle in NY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For those suffering from SHB’s, allow me to share with you what I have observed. Two or three years ago, while enjoying watching my bees form aerial conveyer belts between the hives and their floral sources during a major flow, I saw two SHB’s emerge from the soft earth, wing up, about two feet in front of the hives. It was mid-May and the flow was in full swing, and the dirt in front of the hive was soft. I then saw thses two marauders trying to get into a hive nearby; however, by then a gang of bees attacked them, thwarting their infiltration attempts. Getting a hint from this observation, I then wanted to do something about the very *ground* on which my apiaries are set. In the following year, I put down a thick used carpet in such a way that they stuck out about four to five feet in front of the hives—-the longer, the better, IMHO—-thus covering the very ground that might have harbored the burgers. Of course, the carpets also stopped the weeds from growing into screened bottom boards, as well. My standard set up consists of the recyled carpet on the ground, next four cynder blocks (two each sides), and then two treated landscape timbers or two railroad ties, and finally four hives, two on each end, thus leaving the middle open for layind down supers during mainipulation. The carpet is set flush in the backside of the hive, nothing sticking out, however. Ever since, I have not seen any small hive beetle, but this is totally anecdotal and thus unscientifc. Someone who has done it but with different results can shoot me down, and I have no problem with that. There were just too many uncontroable variables in my observation, such as severe drought and severe flood, back to back, among others. For those suffering from the burgers, however, this experiment might deserve another look, particularly since even the medication against SHB focuses on the “ground” near the apiary. This could very well be yet another research topic for a graduate student. Yoon ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:49:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Use of Honey in Wound Healing In-Reply-To: <46B8B68F.4020406@tele2.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I appreciate the hype for different honeys in wound healing, but it seems more an advertising ploy to sell specific honey. There are differences, but the primary component that makes honey effective is the enzyme glucose oxidase. It is put in honey and pollen by the bee and is the true antibacterial agent. You get more of it the longer honey cures mostly because of the bees adding more nectar, hence more enzyme, so high water content nectar should give the best results. But there is a point where you have enough and more is overkill. Honey acts as an anti-bacterial agent in three ways. The first is as a supersaturated sugar solution. It dessicates bacteria. Medicine uses sugar solutions to do the same thing. The second is its acidity. The third, and what sets it apart, is the action of glucose oxidase. It creates gluconic acid (which is why honey is acid). When it comes in contact with water it breaks down to hydrogen peroxide which is an exceptional anti-bacterial agent. All the other anti-bacterial agents are nice but the peroxide is what does the real heavy lifting. The reason it does so well is because it allows the wound to heal from the wound surface up and will not scar over. The hydrogen peroxide cleans out dead tissue and kills bacteria, a one-two punch. Most all this information has been around since the 60s, so we are not in untrod ground. What is amazing is the lack of knowledge in the western medical community. Honey's healing properties are well known and used in Asia. China uses it for major burns, among other uses. I had hand surgery a few years ago and talked the doctor into allowing me to use honey (my own) to treat the resulting wound. He was reticent at first, but allowed it only after the wound took its own sweet time to heat using prescribed meds. After I applied the honey, it healed quicker and I had greater mobility than normal for the operation. There was almost no scarring and you would be hard pressed to see where the cuts were made. My doctor was amazed. After my other hand was operated on, he allowed me to use honey right off and spoke of it to other doctors. So my own backyard honey was as good as anything from away and did the job well. If the glucose oxidase concentrations are low, it just means you have to apply honey more often. Heat will make it ineffective, so it must be raw and fresh. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:02:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Removing pollen from traps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 09:47:32 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: >Hello Ron & All > >> consequences are for the colonies when they are deprived of the >pollen for longer periods? > >Collecting pollen has had little effect on the bees from my experience. I had several hundred traps at one time, and I agree. The traps aren't all that efficient -- I think the bees learn how to negotiate them. But if the pollen intake is cut back, the bees just assign more foragers to pollen collection. Furthermore, they seem to stop gathering pollen when they feel they have enough. Unlike honey collection, which continues long after they have gained enough for many winters. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:50:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Removing pollen from traps In-Reply-To: <46B8009D.2040205@tele2.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ron & Eefje wrote:...... one of the bees naturally required food sources is suddenly taken from them and this must have an impact on their well-being. ...... and also depriving the bees the inflow of their pollen may well be their neck shot! Ron van Mierlo Ron, I have a pollen excluder but as of yet have not used it. I'm a little scared to because this is an entirely new area of beekeeping for me. I want to because through my own personal research it seems that pollen extender patties work a lot better when about 1/2 of the patty is made up of natural pollen. Using a pollen trap on a hive. From what I can gather from what I have read, the procedure is to trap pollen for a day or two and then let the bees bypass the trap for a couple of days. You keep alternating the trapping days and the free pass days so that the colony is not seriously deprived from the ingathering of pollen. Now, being as I have not done this to date, I could be seriously wrong in my conclusions stated above. But, we'll see because I do want to trap pollen so as to assist in my endeavor to make splits. Mike in LA --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 19:07:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle in NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >There were just too many uncontroable variables in my observation, such as severe drought and severe flood, back to back, among others. I might ad that we know ( Florida & Georgia past years) the levels of SHb drop in times of drought and then resume when the rains come. The trend has repeated in those areas several times. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************