From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:57:50 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB6A49084 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFhrpo016524 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0708D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 47983 Lines: 1108 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:28:00 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: bees hanging out Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I have bees all over the outside of the hive just hanging out and remaining still.. Any ideas? Try puting on full size screens on top (no inner covers) and lifting and skewing the telescoping covers to increase the ventilation. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:04:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_52_27231747.1187751841248" ------=_Part_52_27231747.1187751841248 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO, if the migratory beekeepers continue "business as usual" by bringing all-of-them north every year, eventually these unselected, wild-type AHBs will get selected for cold weather. How about imagining bees that can overwinter in Minnesota, and are "a little more feisty"? This is prob not a popular view, but experiences on the front in Tucson lead us (me and several others) to see the AHB at about the same stage as coyotes, that is - unselected and possessing the wide genetics to make selection under pressure quite rapid. They can also be selected for gentleness, if you have the time. I guess I could point out the spread of coyotes into NEUS cities, but that might be a stretch.... - John Edwards, Vancouver, WA On Tue Aug 21 15:29:12 PDT 2007, Lloyd Spear wrote: > > In a conversation last week I was told by a migratory beekeeper > who winters > in FL that "we all are bringing them north because we don't > necessarily know > they are Africanized when we put them on the truck.' 'After a > few weeks in > the NYS yards, you find out in a hurry which ones are > Africanized, and keep > away from them when in the yards..... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ------=_Part_52_27231747.1187751841248-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:57:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: bees hanging out In-Reply-To: <01ee01c7e420$64893af0$040fa8c0@john> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yeah. I've got one of these hives as well. Italians. Can't figure them out so I let them hang out. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:03:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter: Wild honey bees instinctively build the size that is correct for that species in that locale. Reply: Once distinction to be made here fwiw and kept in mind, is whether the wild honeybees were recent abscondies from regular hives also, and how close to interacting in the way of breeding with man kept colonies too, for spheres of breeding influence mean a lot. Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:08:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter: I have no idea what you are talking about Reply: The difference between true ferals, and newly asconded ferals, and also the sphere of influence around for mating in general, that would include domestic kept stock, like commercially in the area. Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 03:38:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey More Effective, Less Painful than Sugar in Wound Healing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey More Effective, Less Painful than Sugar in Wound Healing Effects of Honey and Sugar Dressings on Wound Healing Journal of Wound Care, 2007 Jul;16(7):317-9 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/08/honey-more-effective-less-painful-than.html Patients with open or infected wounds were randomised to receive either honey or sugar dressings. Bacterial colonisation, wound size, wound ASEPSIS score and pain were assessed at the start of treatment and at weekly intervals until full healing occurred… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:25:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Wild honey bees instinctively build the size that is correct for that species in that locale. Dee Lusby : > With one exception: each layer of hybridization makes for bigger sizing and complex hybridization is not naturally found in Nature. Only simple hybridization is found in Nature. * Here you have introduced a unique concept that is not a part of the scientific understanding of selection and breeding. Hybridization originally referred to crosses between different species such as the horse and donkey. It has been extended by breeders to include crosses between breeds or "races". However, as outlined in the following quote, human selection utilizes the same mechanisms as natural selection: Artificial selection is the intentional breeding of certain traits, or combinations of traits, over others. It was originally defined by Charles Darwin in contrast to the process of natural selection, in which the differential reproduction of organisms with certain traits is attributed to improved survival and reproductive ability in the natural habitat of the organism. Artificial selection that produces an undesirable outcome from a human perspective is sometimes called negative selection. Charles Darwin originally coined the term as an illustration of his proposed wider process of natural selection. He noted that many domesticated animals and plants had special properties that were developed by intentionally encouraging the breeding potential of individuals who both possessed desirable characteristics, and discouraging the breeding of individuals who had less desirable characteristics. The difference between natural and artificial selection centers on the difference in environment among organisms subject to the two processes. Essentially, in artificial selection, the fitness, which is the amount of offspring an individual contributes to a population relative to other individuals in that same population of an organism, is defined in part by its display of the traits being selected for by human beings. Because humans either intentionally or unintentionally exert control over which organisms in a population reproduce or how many offspring they produce, the distribution of traits in the organisms' population will change. It should be emphasized that there is no real difference in the genetic processes underlying artificial and natural selection, and that the concept of artificial selection was first introduced as an illustration of the wider process of natural selection. The selection process is termed "artificial" when human preferences or influences have a significant effect on the evolution of a particular population or species. Indeed, many evolutionary biologists view domestication as a type of natural selection and adaptive change that occurs as organisms are brought under the control of human beings. -- SOURCE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_selection ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:06:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/08/2007 13:08:34 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: worker cell size is uniform and averages 5.2 mm in width. Isn't that a contradiction in terms? Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:13:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Cushman made some detailed measurements of some comb I gave him. The story and pictures are here: _http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/chriscomb.html_ (http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/chriscomb.html) Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:25:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: bees hanging out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/08/2007 19:34:06 GMT Standard Time, john.howe@EARTHLINK.NET writes: They should have room to go inside but refuse. That reminds me of a swarm that I took some years ago that refused to enter the hive although it seemed in all respects perfect. I then remembered that during the winter, some months earlier, I had creosoted the floorboard. I changed the floor and they all trooped in. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:53:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform Comments: To: Chris Slade Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >worker cell size is uniform >and averages 5.2 mm in width. > >Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I already addressed this question. Of course the cell size varies. The question is: how much? Seeley and Morse do not say, so I am assuming that they didn't consider the variation to be significant, or they would have included the deviation,-- just as they did in describing the thickness of the brood comb. It boils down to *significant* differences. Plus or minus .1 mm would be significant; .01 mm really wouldn't. Eva Crane lists the size for European A. mellifera at 5.1 to 5.5 (a deviation of .2mm); Taber and Owens (1970) observed 5.3mm in the USA; Eva Crane lists the size of scutellata at 4.7 to 4.9 (average 4.8mm) Pete ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:23:10 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Peter > Seeley and Morse do not say, so I am assuming that > they didn't consider the variation to be significant, ....... > It boils down to *significant* differences. Plus or minus > .1 mm would be significant; In which case the link which Chris posted to Dave's measurements of Chris' bees' comb shows, by your definition, significant variation (4.9 to 5.3, rounded to the nearest decimal point). Perhaps making assumptions from the things people don't say isn't so wise?! Dennis Murrell shows a single brood comb, in the brood area, varying from 4.6 to 5.4 mm, a range far beyond your limit of 0.1mm. http://bees.farvista.net/scom.htm all the best Gavin ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:37:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Josh Markle Subject: I've extracted...now it's time to ferment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, My very first season has gone pretty successfully (thanks at least in part to the advice from this list). My three hives pumped out the honey. Now it is fermentation season as I embark on some mead production. I am looking for people who might like to share or trade some different/unique honeys, partly for my own consumption, but mostly for my meads. I am only making one gallon batches so not much is needed. My bees fed on clover mostly, but also some wildflowers and canola. Most of it is a very light and clear honey, while some frames had a distinct taste that I am attributing to the wildflowers and is a little darker in colour. Pretty standard, I gather. Reply to me off-list if you are interested. Hope everybody is having a good season. Josh Southern Alberta ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:48:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gavin Ramsay wrote: >Dennis Murrell shows a single brood comb, in the brood area, varying from 4.6 to 5.4 mm, a range far beyond your limit of 0.1mm. Right, but I just don't know if the measurements made by a trained scientist and those made by the average beekeeper would be of comparable accuracy. I know Tom Seeley and he is one of the most meticulous persons I have ever met. Pete ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:53:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > Right, but I just don't know if the measurements made by a trained scientist > and those made by the average beekeeper would be of comparable accuracy. I > know Tom Seeley and he is one of the most meticulous persons I have ever met. A scientist, generally is not trained in metrology and is unlikely to be more able or better equipped than someone who is. I do not know Deniss' training, but my figures were also included in the post that Peter is trying to find a reason for not accepting. My figures came from methods and skill that would be hard to find among non-engineering personnel, using equipment that is calibrated and itself scrutinised to a high degree. However you do not need to take my word for it, the plaster plugs from Chris' original piece of comb still exist and can be re-measured if there is any question about the accuracy of the original work. Can you revisit the measuring of Tom Seeley, that you are defending so strongly ? Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:13:35 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Peter > Right, but I just don't know if the measurements made by a trained > scientist and those made by the average beekeeper would be of > comparable accuracy. Dave Cushman is very meticulous (as I'm sure he'll explain in a minute!) and his methods are fully explained on the web page which Chris gave. I don't know how Dennis Murrell measured comb, but if you read his site you will see that he is a man that has insight that goes beyond that you will find in many scientists. He certainly is no 'average beekeeper'. > I know Tom Seeley and he is one of the most meticulous persons > I have ever met. I don't doubt Tom Seeley's meticulousness, but nor do I doubt that brood comb varies in cell size. Perhaps the conditions for the comb building that Tom Seeley measured were different, or perhaps there was variation there and he was only interested in giving an average. all the best Gavin ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:39:23 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I just don't know if the measurements made by a trained scientist and those made by the average beekeeper would be of comparable accuracy. This is a mechanical measurement; you don't need a scientific background. I use calibrated calipers (I have a set of jo blocks certified to several millionths of an inch to verify my measurement tools) that increments .001 in. (or 0.025 mm). I worked as an inspector of optical and mechanical parts when I was in college. If it means anything, a Swiss parts supplier used to say 'Waldemar ist sehr genau!' and the Swiss excel in accuracy. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:00:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Hoffman, Roger" Subject: Hive status questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I live in south central NY and have 8 hives (6 Italian and 2 carniolon). 2 of the hives (Italian) this year I checkered and went 3 deep them. These 2 really took off and did very well with the locust flow this spring. I checked one of them last night and they were the NASTIEST bees I have ever dealt with. The bottom 2 deeps were FULL of nasty bees but no brood, or honey, and very little pollen). They were light and empty except for the nasty bees. The top deep had quite a bit of brood(capped and uncapped)and honey in it as well as the first honey super above it). Then there were 2 full and capped supers followed by a super full of empty foundation which they had not touched in 2 months. I was wearing a suite over a long sleeve denim shirt and jeans and I must have still been stung a dozen times thru it. I even entertained the thought at one point during the inspection of just getting the hell away from that scene. It was nasty. The bees just boiled up from the bottom 2 deeps when I separated them and went at me. I figured I needed to reconfigure the hive so I move the deep w/ the brood to the bottom and put the 2 other deeps on top. I then placed the super w/ foundation on top of those followed by the 2 capped supers and then the super that had brood in it. I tried to make sure the queen was not in that one. I was hoping the brood would hatch out and then honey would back fill behind them. Any suggestions on what I SHOULD have done with the above situation? Why were the bottom 2 deeps devoid of everything except bees? This is late August with the knotweed and golden rod is just coming into bloom here. I would have thought by now they would have placed quite a bit of honey in the brood nest. As it was there was only 1 deep had honey and brood in it. Should I have removed the 2 supers after they were filled a couple months ago? What is the best way of requeening this hive given their aggressiveness? I have heard that mixing Italian and Carnialons can create a nasty cross? These look mostly Italian. I goal is to go mostly w/ Carniolan but only 2 of my 5 requeening attempts succeeded this spring. Does anyone know a good late season supplier of queens? I would appreciate any feedback and/or suggestions. Thanks Roger Hoffman ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:01:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "I live in south central NY and have 8 hives (6 Italian and 2 carn=". Rest of header flushed. From: Eric Simms Subject: Re: Hive status questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POSTED:=0AI live in south central NY and have 8 hives (6 Italian and 2 carn= iolon).=0A2 of the hives (Italian) this year I checkered and went 3 deep th= em.=0AThese 2 really took off and did very well with the locust flow this= =0Aspring.=0AI checked one of them last night and they were the NASTIEST be= es I have=0Aever dealt with. =0A=0A=0AREPLY:=0AYou have probably had one or= more of the Italian queens swarm or superceded this year, and you now have= an ill-tempered Italian/Carniolan cross hybrid. This happens to me period= ically, and replacing the queen or if it requeens itself, the problem seems= to diminish if not disappear. Hybrids can be exciting that way...=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A _________________________________________________________= ___________________________=0APark yourself in front of a world of choices = in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.=0Ahttp://autos= .yahoo.com/green_center/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:14:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Hive status questions Comments: To: RWHoffman@NYSEG.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sure you don't have a German breed honey bee? I had a hive like that. Then they started making more drones than workers. Then they died out. I was not broken hearted. I could only work the hive from 11am - 1pm. other than that mine was too nasty. Could try replacing the queen. Do it like you would any other replacing task I would think. Call a queen breeder that can tell you which queen to get. Or find a good working time for nasty little things. Last resort, rob them and then terminate the hive. Check with Dept of Ag. Think they Africanized? In WV we've killed 3 swarms that was. Russ Dean _WV Beekeepers Home Page_ (http://www.wvbeekeepers.org/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:10:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Hive status questions Comments: To: Russ Dean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit look closely at the brood, maybe you have a drone layer. sometimes queenless hives get pretty unfreindly ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:39:07 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Hive status questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>2 of the hives (Italian) this year I checkered and went 3 deep them. These 2 really took off and did very well with the locust flow this spring. Nice to hear that.:) >>...the NASTIEST bees I have ever dealt with. The bottom 2 deeps were FULL of nasty bees but no brood, or honey, and very little pollen). <...> The top deep had quite a bit of brood(capped and uncapped)and honey in it as well as the first honey super above it). Thanks to the rains we've had, my bees are raising a lot of brood at this time. Here on Long Island, it's a record year for predation by yellow jackets (a local garden center told a friend of mine that they've sold record amounts of yellow jacket spray). Yellow jackets will make bees very defensive but not like you've described. A little bit of smoke should calm them quickly. I assume your hive inspections are methodic and non-disturbing. There may be several possibilities for nasty bees: What was the source of your Italian queens? Could there be a chemical contamination? Could there be predation by opposums or skunks? >>I figured I needed to reconfigure the hive so I move the deep w/ the brood to the bottom and put the 2 other deeps on top. It's best not to reconfigure the nest after the reproductive swarm period passes. The bottom deep should have a lot of pollen - I am sure goldenrod is blooming beatifully upstate - and most of the brood should be in the middle and 3rd deeps. >>I then placed the super w/ foundation on top of those followed by the 2 capped supers and then the super that had brood in it. Unless you have a good flow going, I would not have them working foundation. I would extract any capped honey and let them back fill the frames with goldenrod honey. >>I tried to make sure the queen was not in that one. I was hoping the brood would hatch out and then honey would back fill behind them. Right. How was the brood pattern? Perhaps they had undergone supercedure and the new queen was just getting up to speed? Do you have marked queens...? >>Any suggestions on what I SHOULD have done with the above situation? Why were the bottom 2 deeps devoid of everything except bees? The bees always have the brood under the honey dome. They work from the top down. If you experienced a drought in July, they may have shut down brood rearing and only restarted after the flow re-started. Supercedure often has a similar effect if the older queen ceased laying. >>This is late August with the knotweed and golden rod is just coming into bloom here. I would have thought by now they would have placed quite a bit of honey in the brood nest. What kind of shape was the other 3-deep hive in? It's always good to baseline. >>What is the best way of requeening this hive given their aggressiveness? I have heard that mixing Italian and Carnialons can create a nasty cross? These look mostly Italian. Looks are very deceiving re. race. As far as requeeing, you can move the hive to a new location leaving behind a single deep to catch the nasty foragers. Re-queening in the new location should be more successful. >>Does anyone know a good late season supplier of queens? Most suppliers should still be shipping queens. Or you can raise your own queens. There should be plentiful drones through September. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:08:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting that all the discussion about cell size leaves out the important fact that there are different bees in different areas and you will find differences in cell size between bee races and even within the race in different climates. So to try and compare the brood cell size and uniformity of one race of bees with another and also between different areas or countries, is not too scientific. Gotta control those variables. So everyone might be right, just they are examining a different part of the elephant and coming to the wrong conclusion from what they see. BTW, my Maine bees are really into wax topiary. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:21:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:08:25 -0400, Bill Truesdell wrote: >Interesting that all the discussion about cell size leaves out the >important fact that there are different bees in different areas and you >will find differences in cell size between bee races and even within the >race in different climates. Referring back to what I said early on in this discussion: > Wild honey bees instinctively build the size that is correct for that species in that locale. I don't think "races" of honey bees means much in the USA or other areas where multiple strains of bees have been imported for centuries. Pete ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:50:54 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Kashmir bee virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re the recent discussion on Kashmir bee virus (KBV), I thought that KBV = already occurred in the US? I seem to recall that several years ago the = claim was made that it did not exist in the US but when someone finally = started to look, surprise, surprise, there it was. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA Looking forward to Apimondia 2007 in 2 weeks time ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:00:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot McPherson Organization: McPherson Family Farms Subject: Re: Seeley Study finds cell size uniform In-Reply-To: <431389.1900.qm@web51603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are no other significant beekeepers in my area. 5 or 6 in number of 1 to 5 hive beekeepers in the entire region. When my bees are left to their own devices to build comb, it is smaller than what large cell beekeepers consider ordinary. Its not 4.8 or 4.9mm average, but I don't have a single hive with larger than 5.1 in the core brood nest, most is 5.0mm or smaller, with extremes core brood nests being between 4.7 and 4.8mm on the small size. I catch my own swarms when I can. Scot McPherson McPherson Family Farms Davenport, IA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:46:29 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Why You Should Always Call A Beekeeper First MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the same week, two civilians learned the hard way that beekeepers are well worth the reasonable fees they charge for doing removals. ...and sure, I'll remove a wasp nest. One Hefty garbage bag and some water in a spray bottle, and the nest is bagged, in the car, and off to a new home in the woods somewhere. Easier than honey bees. http://www.thestar.com/News/article/249449 http://www.thestar.com/article/248909 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:02:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Gormanston Summer School 2008 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all It is only a month since the last Gormanston Beekeeping conference, but already, almost all of the en-suite accommodation has been booked for next year, the only accommodation that is now left is... 76 dormitory places, 56 single rooms, 62 triple bedded rooms and local bed & breakfast, a few of the en-suite rooms may become available if there are cancellations, but you should act quickly rather than leaving it until it may be too late. The 2007 gathering was only 24 short of the maximum residential capacity and as next year we have the magnificent Sue Cobey as our guest lecturer, it is expected that demand will be very high. As travel to the UK is so cheap at present, it may be easier and cheaper for US beekeepers to hear Sue's lectures in Ireland, rather than by travelling long distances in US. You can secure your place by booking early ( I booked for next year before I left this year's gathering ). You can find out a great deal about Gormanston and read reports about the last 8 summer schools, the later ones with many photos, by visiting my webpage... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormanstonindex.html on which all the many documents about Gormanston are linked, there is already a brochure for 2008 and a reservation form that you can use to simplify things. Will we be seeing you in 2008 ?? -- Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 15:34:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Honeybees Alter Behavior of Bighorn Sheep Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Interesting Study: Response of Bighorn Sheep (Ovis Canadensis) to Feral Honeybees (Apis Mellifera) at Water http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0038-4909%28200303%2948%3A1%3C81%3AROBS% 28C%3E2.0.CO%3B2-P&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage Best Wishes Joe ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:36:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Hock Subject: Re: bees hanging out In-Reply-To: <01ee01c7e420$64893af0$040fa8c0@john> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Most of my hives do this when they get hot and crowded. I use all medium boxes. I rotate the top and bottom of the three brood boxes frequently to keep the queen laying and prevent swarming. I would normally start with two supers on a good hive. When I see a "beard" of bees I would add a third super on top and a forth on the bottom. This would now be a total of seven medium boxes, with an Imirie shim between the two top supers. In my situation, the queen never lays in the bottom medium box. I "bottom super" with undrawn foundation. When I remove it at the end of the season, it is usually drawn with some pollen. I use these for next years nucs. Is this lot of work? Yes. But sometimes I can get 200 lb or more out of a hive this way. I "bottom super" mostly to protect the bees from skunks. As long as they are in there anyway they may as well help draw comb. Jim Hock Wethersfield, CT. ******** I have two hives of Italian bees. One behaves "normally". Never mind what that means. It's the other hive: I have bees all over the outside of the hive just hanging out and remaining still.. They've been that way for weeks through all kinds of weather, hot, ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:34:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: death of a beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone a month or so ago was asking for what I think was this. John Greenleaf Whittier - This New England 19th century poet (1807-1892) kept bees and wrote the tale of _telling the bees about the death of their master._ (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping/whittier.htm) Russ Dean _WV Beekeepers Home Page_ (http://www.wvbeekeepers.org/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************