From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:54:38 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST,WHY_WAIT autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295544889B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFkpIb016612 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0709C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 71667 Lines: 1705 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:55:00 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just back from Apimondia 2007 in Melbourne. Great time was had by all. The seminar on world wide bee losses was well attended and really came = up with nothing new from what I have read in all the posts received over = the past week which I have finally got around to reading. Here are some points which are my interpretation of what when on. The question as to whether the IAPV is actually a strain of KBV was = brought up. It would seem that there will be testing to clarify this = point. The USDA is going to check a lot of hives in the USA in areas with CCD = and areas without CCD. They are also going to check samples pre Aussie bees arriving in the = USA, (early 2005) to see if IAPV has been in the bees prior to this = importation. A French chap claimed that since the banning of imidacloprid and = fiprinol spraying, the bees in France now are doing well. No more = massive die off. Re the point that bees in Aussie land are not showing signs of CCD = because we do not have varroa was challenged by pointing out that there = are many other countries round the world receiving Aussie bees or have = received them and these countries have varroa but no CCD. A point raised by a scientist I spoke to (not in the seminar) asked why = there was no AFB or EFB shown up in the samples tested and reported on = in the Science article. I am not a scientist but from what I could = gather, he was saying that the testing methods used should also have = picked up AFB and EFB if they were present. Maybe someone on the list = can understand this. >From what I can gather, the Aussie bees sampled and showing positive = IAPV were installed in hives and did not come down with CCD. A couple of points from posts on the list over the past week. Bob wrote=20 >Beekeepers from Down Under have reported a "disappearing disease" but = not on the scale of CCD, Pettis said during a press conference Wednesday. The above was traced back to a pollen issue and the symptoms were not a = hive full of brood and no bees. Have I got it wrong Trevor? I spoke with Dr. Pettis about this, which we call "The Muck". He was = interested in my theory and is thinking about it. I have posted on this = before and it is available in the archives. Suffice to say that it is = not like CCD. Kim wrote I'd be interested in the response from your end on this...it all seems a = bit unfair but what will your queen and package producers do, do you = suppose? And, the meetings scheduled for the Apimondia conferences = should be worth every penny of admission...what do you think? Well I cannot speak for those producers but from my point of view it is = a matter of trying to get some science into this. There are ongoing = discussions between the Australian Government people and USDA. I think = these are being held in a constructive way. I heard the comment at = Apimondia re a ban being put on Aussie bees as akin to taking off the = life jacket while floating in the water after the boat sinks. Anyway, just thought I should submit some thoughts prior to trying to = catch up on lost sleep due to helping organise Apimondia in Melbourne Trevor Weatherhead P.S. For those of you that have not heard, we are going to Argentina = for Apimondia 2011. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 08:08:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Honeybees and Climate discussion from WashPost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by wildwoodflower@GMAIL.COM to = the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of = previously posted material. ________________________________ From: MRH [mailto:wildwoodflower@gmail.com] Sent: Sat 2007.09.15 05:54 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Honeybees and Climate discussion from WashPost The guest was Wayne Esaias. The intro to the online discussion doesn't = say this about Wayne, but he is an EAS Master Beekeeper. marc hoffman ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:36:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 15/09/2007 10:01:39 GMT Standard Time, queenbee@GIL.COM.AU writes: Just back from Apimondia 2007 in Melbourne. Great time was had by all. Thanks for the Apimondia update, Trevor; however you omitted the news that the whole world is agog to hear: who's the new World Honey Queen? Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:07:03 -0700 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: Effects of Climate Change Report /AB 771 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi All, The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administrations Climate Change Science Program released its draft of 'The Effects of Climate Change on Agriculture, Land Resources, Water Resources, and Biodiversity. http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap4-3/public-review-draft/default.htm For anyone following the AB 771 Anti Bee Legislation here in California.. the bill was amended to remove fees to be charged to bee keepers and adjusted time lines for review process of further plantings of seedless Mandarin oranges The California State Beekeepers Association has redesignated their position from opposed, to neutral. The bill passed out of Senate on Monday. Regards, Kathy Kathy Kellison k.kellison@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:20:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: Midwest Beekeeper, free download In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-6B173C6F The September edition of MidWest Beekeeper is available for free download from http://www.IndianaBeekeepingSchool.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date: 9/14/2007 8:59 AM ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:24:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The question as to whether the IAPV is actually a strain of KBV was brought up. It would seem that there will be testing to clarify this point. This IS step one. >A French chap claimed that since the banning of imidacloprid and fiprinol spraying, the bees in France now are doing well. No more massive die off. Thats what I have been saying now for a very long time on BEE-L. I have spoken with commercial beekeepers in France! We have got to ban together and try to stop the use of the above chemicals. I will say that the bees when given a choice (plenty of pesticide free pollen like this year in my area) will stay away from contaminated pollen ( perhaps the bees somehow know the pollen is not right? ) but in a drought year they will seek out the contaminated pollen ( my own experiments!). Forget about virus CCD for a minute and consider the above problem as big ag keeps pumping higher amounts of the above chemicals into row crop areas. Not simply going away without help. Big money maker for big ag! Consider there is not solution for KBV or IAPV (other than spend years breeding from survivors). No realistic solution. Give me 5 minutes in front of a CCD meeting and I WILL get the real story out. While our researchers are chasing a problem *without a realistic solution* U.S. beekeepers *WILL* keep losing hives at higher numbers each year to the systemic pesticide issue. Lets pull together and fight a *real problem* with a *real solution*? Wake up U.S. beekeepers! >A point raised by a scientist I spoke to (not in the seminar) asked why there was no AFB or EFB shown up in the samples tested and reported on in the Science article. Excellent point as EFB was found in many CCD hives and especially the first CCD hives of Dave Hackenberg. The reason is simple. When beekeepers quit using terramycin (and switched to Tylosin) they in effect were not treating for EFB as Tylosin does not control EFB as did terramycin. >Beekeepers from Down Under have reported a "disappearing disease" but not on the scale of CCD, Pettis said during a press conference Wednesday. >I spoke with Dr. Pettis about this, which we call "The Muck". He was interested in my theory and is thinking about it. I have posted on this before and it is available in the archives. Suffice to say that it is not like CCD. Jeff Pettis has twisted many things to support CCD but he needs to get his facts correct! Thanks Trevor! > I heard the comment at Apimondia re a ban being put on Aussie bees as akin to taking off the life jacket while floating in the water after the boat sinks. In the U.S. we say: "Rushing to shut the gate after the cows have left the barn!" >Anyway, just thought I should submit some thoughts prior to trying to catch up on lost sleep due to helping organise Apimondia in Melbourne Thanks! My Apimondia reports to date are similar to yours. Example: CCD is still a big mystery but could be solved (no guarentee and very possibly no solution but excellent documentation!) with millions of dollars and years of research! bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:49:30 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thanks for the Apimondia update, Trevor; however you omitted the news that > the whole world is agog to hear: who's the new World Honey Queen? The new Honey Queen is Tatiana (pronounced this way but most likely spelt wrong) from the Ukraine. Oops mistake in the previous post. It should be 2011 for Argentina, not 2001. Trevor Weatherhead ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:43:58 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jeff Pettis has twisted many things to support CCD but he needs to get his > facts correct! Thanks Trevor! I found that Dr. Pettis was very receptive to my discussions. He had heard about "The Muck" and was very interested in what I was saying. Overall, I thought Jeff's comments were well measured and I think he was misquoted on what he had said prior to coming to Australia. I was privy to some of his media interviews and I was comfortable with what he said. Maybe the initial hype is over and things will now settle down to a proper scientific review. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:24:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Pollen Substitute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here in North Alabama, we are very dry and very few blooms. Therefore we = do not have much pollen or nectar. Does anyone have a formula for making pollen substitute??? Thanks,=20 Lionel ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 07:50:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We in Alabama are in a dearth for blooms and therefore are lacking in pollen as well as nectar. Could someone publish a formula for making pollen substitute??? We need some now to build up in numbers for Winter. Thanks, Lionel ----- Original Message ----- From: "queenbee" To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:43 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] CCD and IAPV >> Jeff Pettis has twisted many things to support CCD but he needs to get >> his >> facts correct! Thanks Trevor! > > I found that Dr. Pettis was very receptive to my discussions. He had > heard about "The Muck" and was very interested in what I was saying. > Overall, I thought Jeff's comments were well measured and I think he was > misquoted on what he had said prior to coming to Australia. I was privy > to some of his media interviews and I was comfortable with what he said. > Maybe the initial hype is over and things will now settle down to a proper > scientific review. > > Trevor Weatherhead > AUSTRALIA > ****************************************************** > * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * > * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * > ****************************************************** > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: > 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date: 9/14/2007 8:59 AM > > ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:25:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Fourer?= Subject: tracking nectar sources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just searched the archive for "nectar" and "source" and got some interesting info. Has anyone written about methods for tracking bees' sources? For pollen I think the logical thing would be to collect dropped nuggets of pollen and examine them under a microscope. Each family of plants should have a recognizable shape and size of pollen grain. A guide with photos of various pollens would be helpful. I live and keep bees in urban Chicago. There are many ornamental trees, shrubs, flowers, and some weeds. Bees never seem short of pollen here, so nectar is more the issue. Has any method been developed to positively identify what flowers the bees are going to?. Some plants are not obvious but may be discovered by accident. For example, the Bee-L archive mentions the very inconspicuous flowers of Boston Ivy (Parthenocissus tricuspidata). It's a large and abundant urban plant that blooms in June. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:08:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: tracking nectar sources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit P.D. Moore & J.A. Webb book Pollen Analysis Rex Sawyer, book Honey Identification will get you started. the techniques have limitations, some pollen is over represented or under represented due to its morphology or stickiness, etc. a correction factor can be employed. think of it as a tool in addition to other information you can collect about the honey, like color, flavor, time of season collected, and conductivity. here's an informative link as well http://www.airborne.co.nz/monfloralhoneydef.html as with beekeeping in general it is a continual learning process where you become more or less certain of the accuracy of your analysis as time goes on. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:02:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: tracking nectar sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 17/09/2007 19:52:41 GMT Standard Time, dfourer@COMCAST.NET writes: For pollen I think the logical thing would be to collect dropped nuggets of pollen and examine them under a microscope. Each family of plants should have a recognizable shape and size of pollen grain. A guide with photos of various pollens would be helpful. There are various guides to pollen identification ranging from Dorothy Hodges' "The Pollen Loads of the Honeybee" through Rex Sawyer's "Pollen Identification for Beekeepers" and " Honey Identification", which come with punch card keys; to the CD ROM on pollen identification which is largely based on Sawyer's pollen reference collection and which is available from the 'Bees for Development' charity. I think you might find the latter the most useful. Google Bees for Development. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:59:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: tracking nectar sources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Fourer wrote: > Has any method been developed to positively identify what flowers the bees are going to? Well, there is the technique of walking around to see what's in bloom and which flowers have bees on them. There aren't that many really good honey plants in a given area. I would consult an experienced beekeeper in your area to find out which are the ones that normally yield. The main honey plants in a given area usually have a loyal following. Around here, people are starting to ask for Japanese Knotweed by name. It's bloody red and tastes pretty good. Most of the major honeys have a distinct flavor, and are easily recognized once you have tested a good representative sample. Nobody is liable to confuse basswood with clover, for example. Pete ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:50:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >A French chap claimed that since the banning of imidacloprid and fiprinol spraying, the bees in France now are doing well. No more massive die off. Many of us believe big ag is trying hard to steer researchers away from what we consider is the main concern and source of many U.S. hive die offs last year above. Information from our various sources inside the researchers say they have been approached to consider imidacloprid last. Pressure? In the case of corn in the Midwest farmers this year in many areas are planting corn again after corn last year. Both years they used systemic seed treatment which builds in soil. When the treated seed is used only every four years not as big an issue as every year. You can imagine how toxic the pollen could get with increased dosage. Also what are the cumulative effects of bee exposure to Imidacloprid? With the ban in France French beekeepers never found out about cumulative effects of Imidacloprid from the soil but we will it seems. Also the French chap was the president of a French beekeeper association. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:39:46 +0100 Reply-To: rrudd@eircom.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: tracking nectar sources In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First the punched cards are no longer issued with Sawyer's Pollen identification. There never were any punched card with Sawyers Honey Identification. Secondly there is an offer if Pollen Identification book and the CD ROM are brought together. Third Pollen Identification deals mainly with European Pollen. Ruary -----Original Message----- To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: [BEE-L] tracking nectar sources There are various guides to pollen identification through Rex Sawyer's "Pollen Identification for Beekeepers" and " Honey Identification", which come with punch card keys; to the CD ROM on pollen identification which is largely based on Sawyer's pollen reference collection and which is available from the 'Bees for Development' charity. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:16:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey May Fight Ageing, Obesity and Cancer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey May Fight Ageing, Obesity and Cancer Alternative Remedies: Honey By Jessica Kiddle, The Scotsman (UK), 9/18/2007 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/09/honey-may-fight-ageing-obesity-and.html Mary Poppins swore that a spoonful of sugar helped the medicine go down. But could a spoonful of something sweet have been the medicine all along?... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:40:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: tracking nectar sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Fourer wrote: > Has any method been developed to positively identify what flowers the bees are going to? We had a speaker at our local club who does a lot of pollen analysis identification in honey. I came away with the impression that although some pollens are perhaps easy to identify, many are just by pollen family and an electron microscope would be necessary to get the magnification necessary for a specific flower ID. I often see lots of different colored pollen loads coming into my hive, but the honey is usually consistent in color throughout a super, leading me to believe the bees are pretty consistent in staying with the same type nectar source even with many different pollens in the honey. A combination of taste, color, pollen ID and harvest season factors ought to give you a decent ID of your nectar source. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:36:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Law Subject: Courier-Express/Tri-County - A day in the life of a beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.thecourierexpress.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18824752&BRD=2758&PAG=461&dept_id=572984&rfi=6 -- Dennis Law ( aka Paul D. Law ) Brooklyn South Community Emergency Response Team Logistics Section ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:57:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Honey May Fight Ageing, Obesity and Cancer In-Reply-To: <20070918061603.84d281a5f2f7df0ef38485a84124037d.bd3df8ae52.wbe@email.secureserver.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Honey May Can't these people be definitive at all? Most all that comes out from them has that major qualifier, "May". I "may" be able to fly with enough honey coated feathers. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:37:37 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: tracking nectar sources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I often see lots of different colored pollen loads <...> leading me to believe the bees are pretty consistent in staying with the same type nectar source even with many different pollens in the honey. I started pollen trapping with one hive several weeks ago and I am seeing interesting changes in the pollen loads over time. It's been very dry with only a couple of really rainy days in this period. At first, the pollen loads were mostly gray (I assume from Japanese knotweed) and orange (I assume from goldenrod). The daily amounts were about the same with a slight downward trend. As the weather continued to be dry, the load sizes themselves got smaller. Then we got a nice rainy day. The grey pollen almost stopped and large yellow loads became dominant, especially in the afternoons. The daily amounts increased by up 25%, too. As it got drier the loads reverted back to what they were during the previous dry spell. I can't be sure but I am guessing that goldenrod pollen loads are orange during the dry spell and turn yellow (and abundant) when the plants get extra moisture. One can learn a lot from a pollen trap. :) Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:58:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: CCD widely distributed? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From Bee Cultures "catch the Buzz" this quote Weaver, who imports Australian bees, opposes the ban, saying it's too late for such moves even if the link to Australia were firmly established. "Colony collapse is widely distributed around the U.S.," Weaver said. "It's not going to do any good to close off imports from Australia if the pathogen is already here." I had to laugh about the widely distributed claim. What a joke. We still have a poorly understood disorder, with minimal VOLUNTEER data to show how wide spread it WAS, and no proof that it wil everl return. As I have said here numerous times we still do not appear to have any credible claims of CCD in the upper Midwest. Now all of a sudden its widely distributed around the US? Come on..... This just get more strange by the day. To me its the Y2K Bee story of the decade. Its becoming the little guy against the Industrial Ag machine complete with misinformation being pushed to the media. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:14:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote: >> A French chap claimed that since the banning of imidacloprid and fiprinol spraying, the bees in France now are doing well. No more massive die off. Thats what I have been saying now for a very long time on BEE-L. I have spoken with commercial beekeepers in France! We have got to ban together and try to stop the use of the above chemicals. I will say that the bees when given a choice (plenty of pesticide free pollen like this year in my area) will stay away from contaminated pollen ( perhaps the bees somehow know the pollen is not right? ) but in a drought year they will seek out the contaminated pollen ( my own experiments!). Give me 5 minutes in front of a CCD meeting and I WILL get the real story out. Sorry for the long quote, but look here: You claim to be able to get the real story out in 5 minutes. I submit that 5 minutes isn't long enough to get any story out, let alone one as complex as Colony Collapse. It would take ten minutes just to lay out all the different theories. But then, you have boiled it down to just one. Obviously you must be right, since your source is "A French chap". What ever happened to proof? I would be embarrassed to tell farmers that they should give up the sprays they think they need to produce a paying crop just because "some French chap" says they hurt bees. But then, only in a drought year, because the bees "stay away from contaminated pollen". These guys have just as much right to earn a living as you or I. I don't think a bee can tell whether pollen has traces of pesticides in it; they will pick up just about kind of pollen, nutritious or not. But then, I haven't conducted "my own experiments". Come on, Bob. I hope your 5 minute presentation contains more than "somehow I know" and I got it from a "French chap". Pete ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: CCD widely distributed? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brian Fredericksen wrote: > "Colony collapse is widely distributed around the U.S.," Weaver said. > I had to laugh about the widely distributed claim. What a joke. Considering it has been reported in 35 of the 50 states in the USA, I think widely-distributed is a fair statement. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:14:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I submit that 5 minutes isn't long enough to get any story out, let alone one as complex as Colony Collapse. Complex? Try this five minute version! The short version is there is no cure for virus. Period! Only useless documentation which most beekeepers never read. I am very knowledgeable on the worlds virus research but can't find beekeepers to talk about virus research with as most know nothing about the research. I have for years followed the work of Bailey and others with always the same unsolvable conclusion. I would venture to say virus researchers realize what I am saying but still want to spend precious beekeeping research funds on further virus research.In fact many (myself) simply believe IAPV is simply a form of KBV( and what I have been told Denis Anderson said in Australia last week). Second the pesticide systemic seed problem is a REAL problem and not a CCD ghost hunt. > It would take ten minutes just to lay out all the different theories. I live in the real world of beekeeping. Not the world of hypothesis. I was told Jeff Pettis said in Australia that when all the SSDD was pulled from the CCD claims only 10-15% could be considered real CCD. Real CCD is a huge amount of eggs, larva and sealed brood and NO bees! > But then, you have boiled it down to just one. At least you are paying attention! > Obviously you must be right, since your source is "A French chap". Big Ag has said that when Imidacloprid was outlawed in France the huge die off continued. That my friend is a huge lie! >what ever happened to proof? What better proof than the above? Stop the Bayer chemicals and problem stops! I saw the results of systemic pesticides the last two years. The bright spot is the bees will leave the corn pollen alone in my area *if* other sources of pollen are available. >. But then, only in a drought year, because the bees "stay away from contaminated pollen". If beekeepers are not in the corn belt they can go back to sleep. The problem is REAL in areas of the Midwest. and a little crititism will not stop my sharing information with beekeepers in the same boat as me. >These guys have just as much right to earn a living as you or I. At my expense and at the loss of pollinators? Do we really need pesticide treated seed to survive? Do we really need GMO corn? Please get the 3 disc DVD set "GMO Trilogy" available at most better health food stores. Why don't these documented stories make the news? >I don't think a bee can tell whether pollen has traces of pesticides in it; they will pick up just about kind of pollen, nutritious or not. I would say my hypothesis is a good as yours. This area is a basically an unknown area which really needs research. It was amazing to me *this year* to see bees flying over fields of systemic pesticide treated seed to get pollen from Goldenrod or heartsease on the otherside of the field. >But then, I haven't conducted "my own experiments" I checked the corn fields every three days both last fall and this year. I have got a whole notebook full of dates and times and what I observed. Last fall the bees were working systemic seed treated pollen ( worst drought in our area since 1936) and did poorly in winter and early spring. Only in late spring did those hives rebound. This fall I have not seen any bees (not once) working corn pollen and we have got the best hives in five years. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not but I am checking. >. Come on, Bob. I hope your 5 minute presentation contains more than "somehow I know" and I got it from a "French chap". My five minute presentation would point out the futility of chasing the virus angle! I am going to put you on the spot Pete. Please explain what the solution to IAPV is? We know all the normal things such as less stress, nutrition and building up the immune systems. Give me a solution we have never heard of? The U.K. researchers told us there was no cure other than taking better care of our bees back when I saw CCD three years before Hackenberg and the U.K. documented (sample sent) the problem virus related. Many told Jeff Pettis the virus angle is a waste of time while he was in Australia so hopefully he was listening! Several were friends of mine! I have had direct contact with French beekeepers for a long time and none have told me that when the Bayer products were pulled the massive die offs continued. Not a single one! Sure Bayer has its *briefcase* full of its *paid for* research but France felt the only way to see if the products were really killing hives was a ban. Bayer IS STILL banned from using those products in France. They are not able to get a foot back in the door! Why not? Thanks for your post Peter! I was beginning to think the list had fallen asleep! bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:50:06 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD widely distributed? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> "Colony collapse is widely distributed around the U.S.," >> Weaver said. "It's not going to do any good to close off >> imports from Australia if the pathogen is already here." > I had to laugh about the widely distributed claim. What a joke. Strictly speaking, Danny is "correct" in his assessment, as he is echoing the view of the WTO of this sort of trade issue. And the width of the spread is immaterial. Regardless of personal interpretations of the term "wide", and regardless of the accuracy of self-reporting "surveys" used to list states as "affected" or not, there is a little problem with "closing off imports" of bees. The US has no right to do such a thing under WTO rules. Not even if we had Arlo Guthrie's "twenty-seven 8x10 colored glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explainin' what each one was, to be used as evidence..." (each photo, of course, showing a tiny little IAPV beastie wearing a Newcastle Jets tee shirt, holding a stubby of Foster's in one hand, and a dying bee in the other). We have no quarantines in place that might stop the spread of CCD or anything else. We have no "national veterinary authority" over beekeeping. We don't even have regular sampling and testing done to determine what pests and diseases of bees are where. All these things add up to only one possible interpretation in the eyes of the WTO - the lower 48 states of the USA is one single reporting area, and any disease or pest found anywhere in the lower 48 states is inherently assumed to be everywhere in the lower 48 states. And, under WTO rules, if you "have" a disease or pest, you cannot block imports from elsewhere unless you impose equally draconian measures (quarantines) on your own producers of the same item to protect some geographic region from infestation. Assuming, of course that you had proof of a region free of the infestation as a result of the above-mentioned regular sampling done by a "national veterinary authority". And also assuming you even had vague plans to form a "national veterinary authority" for apiculture "real soon now", which we don't. All this was explained in detail in 2002 and 2005 in Bee Culture, here and here: http://bee-quick.com/reprints/apis_bc.pdf http://bee-quick.com/reprints/regs.pdf Further, what was found is claimed to be "genetic evidence of a specific virus". They have yet to find an actual virus itself. They may have merely found evidence of prior exposure to this virus, perhaps several bee generations back. Still further, there was ONE SAMPLE from Australia found to show the same "genetic evidence of a specific virus". Having only one sample is opening oneself to a wide range of critiques, from "cross-contamination of samples" to simple human error. (No one has seen the specific raw genetic sequence run data, or the sample metadata, so there is also the potential for a claim that the data was misread/misinterpreted/mangled/whatever.) So, what has been suggested by (so far) the ABF, the AHPA, and least two US Senators is... what? Nothing less than US implementation of the "Precautionary Principle", as made famous in world trade by the EU nations? If you've never heard of it before, the idea is simple - it forces the exporter to prove that something is safe, rather than keeping the burden of proof on the importing nation. Any doubts, and "no thank you" to those exports. Given that the USA is everyone's biggest customer for all sorts of goods, the number of complaints that would be filed as a result of the US adopting the Precautionary Principle (or something akin to it) would bury Brussels under a blizzard of paperwork so deep that Belgium as a whole might become a black hole due to the accumulation of such a large mass in such a tiny area. The WTO might well break down under the weight of claims and counterclaims. If the US adopts the Precautionary Principle, everyone else and his brother is sure to follow suit. And everyone will file suits. Hold on there... I was about to condemn all concerned for blaming Australia without anything even close to what might be called "proof", but I've suddenly realized that maybe this is not such a bad thing after all. So, we beekeepers take a hit, and the payoff is the complete collapse of the WTO, maybe even NAFTA and CAFTA too. Ya know, I think we can live with that sort of scenario. So can our counterparts in Australia, even if they have to play at being the "villain" for a few months. The only rational conclusion one can draw is that bees claimed to be carrying a virus is "the last straw", after all the other scary stuff that has been coming into the country - tainted toothpaste, toxic toys, poison pet food, and worst of all, threats of a new Celine Dion album in November. There's just no way that anyone is suddenly willing to buck the WTO over such a minor commodity as bees, so this can't just be about bees for the Senators. We'd be doing everyone a favor. After all, what's worse - losing most of the decent jobs to countries with the lowest wages and lowest standards for safety and environmental compliance, or basing your entire economy on making cheap consumer goods that you hope to sell to the people who don't have decent jobs any more? ...and everyone wonders why so many sub-prime mortgages got sold. Its obvious - folks wanted jet-skis, iPod Nanos, and wide-screen TVs, so they leveraged their homes to buy all those cheaply-made consumer goods, and got sold sub-prime loans because they did not have decent jobs any more. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:51:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L._Borst?=" Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote: >I am going to put you on the spot Pete. > Please explain what the solution to IAPV is? I don't know. But if Australian bees have it and don't succumb, then it isn't the whole problem anyway, is it? By the way, I agree that mites have to be held at bay. Any colony that is crawling with mites is not a healthy colony. The real key lies in understanding what it means to have a really healthy colony. Having bees with weakened immune systems for whatever reason is bound to lead to ever increasing problems. Everybody wants simple answers to complex problems. The danger of the simple answer is that it leaves out so much that it is just plain wrong. Pete ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:52:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Re: CCD widely distributed? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim writes: “The US has no right to do such a thing (ban bee imports) under WTO rules.” I’m sure you are technically right on this, Jim, but over the years I have gotten the impression that the US and other economically heavyweight countries do not strictly adhere to these rules unless it is convenient for them to do so. So I am sure you won’t be shocked if our government doesn’t just go ahead and ban bee imports anyway. I agree it's not likely though. The Bush administration would probably not be inclined to go along with it in the case of one of their staunchest Iraq War allies. “So, we beekeepers take a hit, and the payoff is the complete collapse of the WTO, maybe even NAFTA and CAFTA too.” Please point me to the mailing list where you explain in detail what eliminating the mechanisms by which international trade rules are at least somewhat enforced will do for the world economy. :) I think your first line of reasoning about banning bee imports from Oz not making a lot of sense was a good one. But I am sure you’ll agree, the Global economy is here to stay, and nothing is going to turn back the clock on international economic interdependence as flawed as its implementation might seem. Steve Noble ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:01:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Digman Subject: Quarantine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In addition to the calls for a ban on imported bees, shouldn't someone = be recommending a quarantine of hives located in areas that have = experienced CCD? That would seem like a logical and prudent first step = in controlling the spread of the disease.=20 barry digman ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:26:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Quarantine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry calls for a quarantine to control CCD. That would require shutting down movement of colonies from at least 70% of the nation's states. And, this assumes that CCD is a disease and that the states that have not experienced/reported CCD are safe. The verdict is still out on whether its a disease - preliminary data suggests it may be, but not everyone agrees. And, CCD remains unknown in Australia - maybe because they don't have mites. More importantly, CCD is unknown in other countries that have mites and have imported Australian bees for close to 20 years (although it may be in these countries and has not been reported - but if there were widespread losses, we'd hear about them). Its premature to ban imports from Australia and a quarantine is not practical. Besides, assuming the worst, CCD is a disease, its been spread from coast to coast already. I know, I've seen it all across the U.S. - and I mean, I've looked at the colonies, sampled. Not much to be gained now by restricting movement. Kind of like the security show at airports, makes people feel like somethings being done; but doesn't really solve the problem. Jerry ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:10:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Quarantine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A little history to remind us that honey bee quarantines don't work: Officials May Expand Quarantine of Killer Bees Published: August 14, 1985 Government officials are debating whether to expand a quarantine area after concluding that up to four swarms of aggressive Africanized bees escaped from the first colony of such bees in the United States. The discovery last week in a commercial apiary of a second colony of Africanized bees, called ''killer bees'' because of their aggressive nature, meant that officials also had to decide what to do with 100 to 150 commercial colonies in the apiary. * * * Bee Quarantine Is Set To Contain Killer Mite Published: April 7, 1988 The Federal Government has quarantined bees in 13 states to help prevent the spread of a tiny killer mite that threatens the nation's bee industry, the Agriculture Department said today. The mites were first discovered in the United States last September in a Wisconsin apiary and since have spread to the 12 other states. * * * College Station, Texas - June 22, 2005 When Africanized honey bees first arrived in Texas in October 1990, the state's officials quickly acted with U.S. Department of Agriculture officials to quarantine 10 counties surrounding the site near Hidalgo where the wild colony was discovered. After that, each time a sample was confirmed in a new area, that county would be quarantined. After the bees were first detected in the United States (at the Texas location), they moved westward and have since been found in Arizona, California, Nevada and New Mexico. No other state opted to quarantine their counties upon detection of the bees. The apiary inspection service will no longer quarantine counties for Africanized honey bees. -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:14:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: Quarantine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey folks, CCD may be in a bunch of states, but does anyone know how it got there?? Was it movement of hives from the Almonds?? I do not know of any traces in the state of Alabama. One reason may be that Alabama has closed borders to bees on comb. Only package bees and Queens are allowed. We do not have major honey producing plants or a need for out of state bees for pollination. Movement of bees from a large "herd area" like almonds distributes every thing there is in the "herd". Where did most of the Australia bees enter into the USA?? Lionel North Alabama ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:12:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Quarantine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit show me one other Ag industry that does not quarrantine *suspected* sick or diseased animals. this is such a crock. common sense says something drastic needs to change in the bee industry. its vector 7/red alert every 9 months in the USA and the mass movement of hives continues unabated. meanwhile beeks looking like deer in the headlights are like what's wrong with our bees? the biggest joke is we're all supposed to give a rip about almonds as if the world would come to an end if they had no bees for pollination in Feb. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:51:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Re: Quarantine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brian writes: “common sense says something drastic needs to change in the bee industry.” Don’t you see Brian? The bees are already making the adjustment. A drastic change IS being made in the bee industry. Put it another way; Who do you think is hurt most by what ever problems occur as a result of unsustainable beekeeping practices? It is those who are most dependent on those practices. So if all our problems are caused by migratory beekeepers, which I kind of doubt, don’t worry too much, they will all be out of business soon if their practices are as unsound as you say. We beekeepers are not that much different than the bees we keep. It is the ones who develope resistance that will survive. Steve Noble ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:51:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD and IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Pete & All, Pete said: > By the way, I agree that mites have to be held at bay. Any colony that is crawling with mites is not a healthy colony. I agree! Wisdom from the varroa front lines: We learned years ago when Dr. Shiminuki told us about virus and bees and named parasitic mite syndrome (PMS) that if you control mites you control virus. Above a certain level of varroa control (say 98-99%) virus has never been a serious issue with honeybees. Which brings me to the subject of this post. Apiguard & api life Var. I have done quite a few posts on BEE-L about Api life var (search Bob Harrison & api life var) I was to my knowledge the first to use in Missouri and test. I have said little about apiguard but was given apiguard to test a full two years before available to beekeepers. I have used both these products with success. However I feel I need to at least comment about my observations although I am friends with the sellers of both products. Hopefully I will not see their wrath for sharing my observations on these products. When api life var first hit the market the treatment was 2 treatments (first year) but with my testing was not quite enough at times to get a good kill. The next year the dosage went to 3 treatments and my experiments showed a much better efficacy. Not sure if my recommendation was a factor but the change has stood. Last fall when apiguard went on sale the dosage was higher (50 gram) and 2 treatments. The 2 treatments made apiguard the pick over api life var for many commercial beekeepers simple because of only two treatments needed (as opposed to 3). My testing has shown (at least to me) that like the early api life var ,apiguard really needs 3 treatments for a high efficacy. I recommend a label change to read three 25 gram treatments (instead of 2 50 gram). Last fall many beekeepers had made the decision to use apiguard ( over api life var mainly because of only two treatments needed). For thymol to be effective in the Midwest you really need to use before thresholds get too high. Thymol is a slower kill than what apistan & checkmite did when they had a high efficacy. Last fall when the ideal treatment time came beekeepers could not get apiguard (back ordered). By the time supplies came in most beekeepers were 30 days late on treatments (which is problematic). The second issue was only using 2 treatments. Yes varroa kill was had but not at the level (my opinion) that would have been had with 3 treatments. Although after treatment the above hives were not crawling with mites ( using Pete's words) they still had high enough varroa levels to let virus issues start causing weakened immune systems. I believe the above could have been a factor in the die off last winter. conclusion: I highly recommend using 3 treatments of apiguard instead of 2 as long as researchers think we have got a virus issue in our bees. I practice what I preach. The hives I treated this fall with apiguard are getting 3 treatments. It is my opinion that you will get a better kill with 3 correctly timed treatments and well worth the extra trip to the bees. The maker has said we can use 3 treatments if we feel we need the control. Best of luck this fall and winter with your bees! Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:39:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Invasion of Varroa mites into mite-free colonies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Invasion of Varroa mites into mite-free colonies at a military training area. E. Frey, P. Rosenkranz (Apicultural State Institute, University of Hohenheim, 70593 Stuttgart, Germany) Honey bee colonies should be treated against varroosis in late summer to guarantee the production of healthy winter bees. However, the invasion of Varroa mites from non-treated colonies may wreck the treatment effect. To quantify the invasion rates we used a former military training area which is not accessible to other beekeepers. Four heavily Varroa infested honey bee colonies served as "donator" colonies. In distances of 1, 30, 400, 1300 and 1500 m from the donator colonies we placed two mite-free monitoring colonies each which were continuously treated with different acaricides. The "mite free status" was confirmed by the analysis of bee and brood samples. >From August–October 2006 the number of Varroa mites on the bottom boards of the monitoring colonies were counted at weekly intervals to record the Varroa invasion rate. The average Varroa infestation rates of the adult bees in the "donator colonies" increased from 18% in August till 38% in October. Two colonies died at the beginning of October due to the high Varroa infestation. In total, 2029 mites were recorded in the bottom boards of the 10 monitoring colonies during the 8-week period. The average invasion rates per colony were 283 at 1 m distances from the "donator colonies", 201 at 30 m, 155 at 400 m, 122 at 1300 m and 255 at 1500 m. Under normal beekeeping conditions the density of bee colonies and, therefore, the invasion pressure would be considerably higher. Our data confirm that highly infested colonies represent a risk for treated colonies over distances up to 1.5 km. For beekeeping practices, the treatment of all colonies at the same time during the late summer period is an urgent need for treatment concepts. * * * comment: Our authors don't speculate on how the mites are transferred, but if it is by robbing, then you would expect them all to have about the same amount, whether the distance is a meter or a mile. That's seems to be what they found. The colonies averaged about 200 with a range from 122 to 283 -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:43:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Nosema ceranae in Austria MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline First report of Nosema ceranae in colonies of Apis mellifera in Austria. (I. Loncaric et al ) In past years, severe losses of bee colonies were observed during hibernation in many bee yards in Austria. Also many colonies were very weak in spring. Due to findings of Nosema ceranae in many European countries in the last years, it was suspected, that probably this microsporidian, which infects the midgut of honeybees, is already present in Austrian honeybee colonies. Honey bee samples from Austria were inspected microscopically for Nosema sp. spores. Eight positive samples from different apiaries were selected and analysed for N. apis and N. ceranae using protocols of Higes et al. In 4 out of the 8 samples analysed up to now, the presence of Nosema ceranae was detected. Positive samples came from 3 different apiaries in 2 provinces of Austria. -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************