From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:57:13 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.4 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B8E4905F for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFkpIf016612 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0711E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 21776 Lines: 469 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:53:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron & Eefje Subject: Re: Nosema sampling In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20071128200704.0507e210@sbcglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On your question, Jim: > Do you have any information on which essential oils can be used as a > treatment against Nosema apis and other Nosema species? Are there any > dose recommendations for the essential oils? No the treatments have not been evaluated by me but the referenced material holds some answers. Most of the articles were in PDF format and wiped away with the computer (or rather HD) problem. Ron van Mierlo ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:38:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q??=" Subject: Re: AHB Origin Comments: To: Peter Borst Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:37:08 -0500, Peter Borst wrote: >>Here's a great chance for a scientist/math major type to chime in and prove >that larger bees hold more moisture per unit of mass. > >Well, that's not me. But maybe you'd like to try to explain why A. m. >lamarckii (Egypt) and A. m. yemenitica (all across African from West Sahara >to Saudi Arabia) are the smallest bees and the bees of the colder climates >(A. m. carnica, etc.) are the biggest? And don't tell me it's because they >were artificially enlarged by honeycomb foundation. I don't buy that one. I am not the scientist/math major type that is going to completely explain this. However the size differences of warm climate and cold climate bees is probably due to heat conservation abilities. Animals in general, especially mammals, are often larger in cold climates. You can often see this by looking at subspecies of mammals that range from warm to cold climates. You will often see that as the climate cools the subspecies becomes larger. Larger bodies allow for better heat retention while smaller bodies make it easier to get rid of extra heat. Back to the bees, larger bees are likely more efficient at maintaining cluster warmth in colder climates than smaller bees. On the other hand smaller bees are likely better at remaining cooler in warmer climates. Hope this was helpful. Noah ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:31:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Migratory beekeeping In-Reply-To: <000501c83223$b7d4cd40$6401a8c0@NOTEBOOK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Marron wrote: > How many > move to blueberries, 60,000? To think that federal or any other troops could > check this many colonies doesn't seem to be in reality. You do not check all of them but you do check each operation. Plus, there are supposed to be checks on both ends, Florida and Maine, and any of the other states which are pollination stops. I can only vouch for Maine. We do have an outstanding inspection team in Maine. Been with them on their inspections and they do find the problems through random inspections and sampling. Most of the problems have been found in Maine before they were found in Florida. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:57:55 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: African Origin of Honey Bees In-Reply-To: <0f6301c8310b$e9a3b340$3eaa5142@MyPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Randy Sorry for delay... > European bee may have some old > African genes in the back closet, which could be selected for to breed > for the pest resistance that scutellata demonstrates. One of the reasons that European bees are so called is that the races that are now considered to be European, do not exhibit certain gene combinations that would be present in the original African ancestors. It is the loss of these specific combinations (probably by bottle necking) that have caused the differences by which we recognise the races as actually different. So what I am saying is those genes that you seek for pest resistance may well not exist in the European types. That does not preclude their ability to be absorbed back into European types, but when you do that, you will no longer have Europeans, but African Hybrids. Scutellata is a modern race that itself was derived from an African ancestor. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:47:29 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Swarming Smell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Is there a specific smell of a colony before swarming? Yesterday I was visiting an old and very knowledgeable beekeeper friend ( www.apefiori.cl). While walking on his bee yard I noticed a pleasant smell dificult to describe with words (as most smells I imagine). I said to him : it must be necting, can you smell the honey?. And he said: that is not honey, that is the smell of swarming!! Today on one 100 colonies bee yard of mine I smell each hive entrance and mark each colony with that particular smell I have learned the day before. Then I inspected those 7 hives and vuala, the queen were on the second body and the colony was building queen cells. Any one have noticed that particular smell? Why could that be? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 05:12:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Substance May Contribute to Pain-Relieving, Wound-Healing Effect of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Substance May Contribute to Pain-Relieving, Wound-Healing Effect of Honey Kynurenic Acid in Honey from Arboreal Plants: MS and NMR Evidence Planta Medica, 2007 Nov 12 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/11/substance-may-contribute-to-pain.html KYNA, a Trp metabolite, shows neuroprotective activity against excitotoxic amino acids by antagonizing the NMDA receptor (glycine, glutamate). Here we report the identification of KYNA by a combination of ESI-MS/MS and 1D- and 2D-NMR analyses in honey varieties of arboreal origin... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:08:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Lord Subject: water jacketed tank MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am about to install a large water jacketed tank in an unheated = building for occaision use to heat syrup. I need to fill the water = jacket with a food grade liquid that will not freeze. Does anyone have = a recommendation? Bill Lord Louisburg, NC ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 07:42:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: water jacketed tank In-Reply-To: <2A73B55CD90E427795E841A22CF0FF91@BillLordPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, honey comes to my mind as a "food grade liquid that will not freeze." I would check with a local heating/cooling contractor, especially one that does commercial installations. We replaced the steam boiler and radiators at church with a hot water boiler and forced-air blowers. We had a choice of about seventeen different fluids, from water (by far the cheapest) to petroleum products to propylene glycols and alcohols. Costs varied wildly and widely. Obviously you won't need too much. We went with water as it won't be in a freezing environment, and we also had the option to add a switch that would automatically keep the water level filled from our normal plumbing sources which eliminated our constant need to keep an eye on things. Obviously your need won't require such diligence. But we were also warned that water would also cause corrosion and we were given about ten different products to add to our boiler to reduce corrosion. No doubt that some of these products would alter the freezing point. Grant Jackson, MO http://www.25hives.homestead.com --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:10:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: water jacketed tank In-Reply-To: <2A73B55CD90E427795E841A22CF0FF91@BillLordPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bill & All, Good to hear from you Bill! Has been awhile since you posted! You were on BEE-L back when being on the internet was only a very small percentage of beekeepers. in fact I believe you may have been on BEE-L longer than me. Bill asked: >I am about to install a large water jacketed tank in an unheated building >for occaision use to heat syrup. I need to fill the water jacket with a >food grade liquid that will not freeze. Does anyone have a recommendation? If you want a food grade liquid use RV antifreeze and the cheapest place to get usually is Wal-mart. On sale right now I believe. Others do not always use food grade as little chance the liquid would ever come in contact with the honey *if* your tank is stainless steel but better safe than sorry. As long as your tank is heated *and* the liquid is being circulated then freezing would not be a problem even in an unheated area. I use plain water ( heated building year around except of about a month in dead of winter when I bottle ahead and take a break) as the water evaporates and needs about a half gallon a week added (which would be an added expense if using RV antifreeze). When I shut down this time of year I simply drain the tank and blow air through the lines. I prefer a large water supply tank (20 gallons) as I leave on many trips a year to prevent the tank running dry. Using emersion heaters in a small volume tank with open top you run the chance of cooking your element if the tank runs out of water. I can also explain the way to use a hot water heater but will save for another post. Hope the information helps! Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:13:55 -0500 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: water jacketed tank MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Grant and Bob's recommendations are good, but perhaps I can add something. Is everything stainless? If so, your choices expand exponentially. If not, you need to be asking for something non-corrosive. Also, keep in mind that what you need worry about is 'freezing', not 'near-freezing'. In other words, if the liquid you use changes to a near-solid (or, 'almost' freezes) that should be ok, but you don't want it to 'freeze', and change to a solid. That difference can make a huge difference in the cost of your 'solution'. Both in terms of the volume of material you need (think volume of antifreeze) or in terms of the material itself. I once learned a valuable lesson in these regards. We had a hot water heater in a barn that we had faithfully been draining and had been also blowing out the lines. This was a pain in the neck as at least 2-3 times in a winter we'd have to fill the heater and use the hot water. On a chance visit a friend was is an engineer asked 'why'? He had noticed that the heater ran on propane, with a pilot light, and proceeded to explain that the water would not freeze as long as the pilot light was lit. He explained the water might change to a slurry (or, near freeze), but would not freeze. As long as there was a smidgen of liquid, there would be enough room for expansion so that the tank would not burst. He also explained that it was not necessary to use air to blow out the lines, and all we needed to do was to get out 'most' of the water so that if the remaining amount froze there would be empty pipe enough to handle the resulting expansion of volume with rupturing. With some trepidation, we followed his advice and never had a problem. -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:28:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: water jacketed tank Comments: To: lloyd@rossrounds.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He had noticed that the heater ran on propane, with a pilot light, and proceeded to explain that the > water would not freeze as long as the pilot light was lit. He explained > the water might change to a slurry (or, near freeze), but would not > > freeze. As long as there was a smidgen of liquid, there would be enough > room for expansion so that the tank would not burst. The above is off course true about the *tank* . The problem is with the water in the freon lines of the "milk tank" ,the lines to and from the pump and the pump (not the tank itself). Most tanks are open top for a couple reasons but damage could be done to some I have seen if the water is frozen. Also the pump could be damaged. I assure the list that once the lines of a "milk tank" freeze and rupture (big repair problem) or simply freeze ( hard to get unfrozen in an unheated building) then you have got problems. Blowing out the freon lines with air is needed unless the liquid is a solution which will not freeze. > > He also explained that it was not necessary to use air to blow out the > lines, and all we needed to do was to get out 'most' of the water so that > if > the remaining amount froze there would be empty pipe enough to handle > the resulting expansion of volume with rupturing. One reason I heat my honey processing area in winter is the constant repair of lines which freeze in Missouri winter in unheated areas. Draining was simply not enough most of the time. Mobile home heat lines do work and I have seen used if electricity is available however if the electricity goes off then problems. ice storm tomorrow morning in our area and power outages are not unusal for our area. Eleven days has been the longest period in freezing weather without power. To combate the problem I put downward valves on each place water can stay in the lines and now I have lttle problems with frozen lines at startup. I drain and blow out Milk tank freon lines went not in use. Blowing out the lines works best. I used copper for years but finally went to PVC due to ease of repair. Trying to repair copper with any moisture in the lines is a hassle. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:15:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: water jacketed tank In-Reply-To: <4AB4F0061C6D470390AA7F1C09EC3598@bobPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:10 AM 11/30/2007, you wrote: >cept of about a month in dead of winter when I bottle ahead and take a break) as the water evaporates and needs about a half gallon a week added (which would be an added expense if using RV antifreeze). I've had a problem with my tank when I forget to refill the water periodically. If the water drops too low, the thermostat's probe looses contact with the water, and it just turns on all the time, eventually ruining the honey. Wasn't a big big tank or loss, but it's surprising how often it needs refilled. I found just pouring some mineral oil in to the depth of 1/4" (probably only about 2oz worth), cuts down on the evaporation almost completely. -Tim ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************