From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:03:36 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-85.3 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,MILLION_USD,SARE_FRAUD_X3,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2765B4830D for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3Y6W017265 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:34 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0801A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 118059 Lines: 2605 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 22:02:01 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gavin wrote: >Alternatively, if CCD = Nosema (maybe two types) + stress, then isn't the >loss of bees after confinement and trucking consistent with this? I learnt that nosema was a 'stress disease' in early 1981 - just before I started keeping bees - so it does not come as a surprise that transporting bees increases the level of nosema in colonies. If that nosema happens to be N. ceranae then I am even less surprised that colonies crash shortly after a move. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:20:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Thompson Subject: Re: CCD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit more tales from the front And you say 'It's winter, aren't they dormant? Alas no. It's clear to me why no bodies are there to be found -- the birds eat them I seem to be supporting 2-6 chickadees Bee parts underneath their 8? perches (abdomens mostly) If they become too bold I will reluctantly have to shoot them There is a slow trickle of bees out of about 1/3 of the hives at first glance no worse than normal mortality, but of a flying bee Most make "snow angels" and the chickadee is there, sometimes prematurely Recall that I'm a little warmer than Peter (SD,NB,WI,^MI, Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Eric_Brown?= Subject: Re: Sustainability Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Concepts are wonderful, but it is all in the implementation and who does >the implementing. I hope you're not suggesting that because people have abused and confused noble concepts in the past that we should turn our backs on noble causes and live strictly for profit and self. Sustainability is nothing if it isn't implemented, and the absolute best place to implement every noble cause is at home. Here are some of my New Year's resolutions for sustainability: * To manage my bees so as to better conserve stores (especially in late summer), reducing my dependence on sugar. * To spend less time driving, both by situating more of my bees closer to home and by making more of the trips I do make. * To control varroa strictly through management practices, so as to eliminate my need for purchased treatments. (I'm hopeful that I'm almost there.) * To sell more honey to my nearer neighbors. * To find a way to share breeding stock with peer beekeepers in order to maintain a stronger, more diverse gene pool. * To invite more neighboring beekeepers into my bee yards (especially my nuc yard) over the course of the year and to visit them in theirs. * To refine and expand my use of nucs year-round. (Beginning to develop a smart use of nucs was the most radical and profitable step up in my beekeeping in 2007 -- thanks to Chuck Norton and especially Mike Palmer.) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:49:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Adony_Melathopoulos?= Subject: Re: Sustainability Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have enjoyed reading the thread. I was glad to see so many people on the List express the importance of moving towards more sustainable agricultural practices. It is an important issue. I think the struggle on the list with defining sustainabiliity is symptomatic of how poorly defined the category is. I would suggest that rather than dump the category, we need to define it better. The lack of definition, however, is not for lack of underlying science. Below is a quote from a recent journal article that defines the contours of what I believe are the actual problems. "Although targets and policy tools are now widely used, the chosen targets often are not biophysically meaningful, or they lack an effective mechanism for linking to policy action. Furthermore, most existing sustainability initiatives fail to reflect on foundational issues, and do not adequately confront potentially uncomfortable ethical questions. Instead, most sustainability initiatives are firmly situated within the jurisdictional and political context of the present, where pragmatism reduces the set of potential actions to a relatively narrow range that is deemed politically feasible. Often, the resulting short-term responses are only minor perturbations (positive or negative) to the dominant trajectory of increasing un-sustainability. The Kyoto Protocol is an example of a pragmatic, politically mediated compromise that falls far short of what climate scientists believe is needed to avoid 'dangerous' climate change with serious consequences for human well being . Although short-term pragmatism is valuable, small uncoordinated steps, by themselves, are unlikely ever to lead to sustainability. Political pressure frequently decouples policy actions from credible sustainability targets, and sustainability is falsely treated as a relativistic concept. This decoupling is responsible for an ever-widening gap between what needs to be done to reach sustainability and what is actually being done". Fischer, J. et al. 2007. Mind the sustainability gap. TRENDS in Ecology and Evolution Vol.22 No.12: 621-624 Beekeeping is a big part of a sustainable future. Pollination enables higher yields among many crops for very little ecological cost (energetically, materially, in terms of chemical inputs). While most of our staples are not animal pollinated, the elements of our diet that our linked to healthy living are largely pollinated... reduced yields from these crops, or yields that come from more unsustainable inputs, might not affect out intake of calories, but will most certainly result in a more impovershed diet than we currently eat (the average American only eats one fruit serving per day and this comes, by in large, in the form of orange juice). Current estimates from the USDA suggest that should American eat the minimum fruit and vegetable servings from the Food Pyramid, there would need to grow an additional 4.1 million acres of fruit and 8.9 million acres of vegetables (http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/err31/err31.pdf). Should policy/enterpraneurs move US agriculture in a way that meets this shortfall, we need to be able to increase colony numbers and maintain them to contribute to the sustainable production of this currently neglected part of our diet. Adony ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 05:15:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Leukemia Survivor Credits Honey for Recovery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Leukemia Survivor Credits Honey for Recovery Miraculous Recovery Sweet Tale By Mindelle Jacobs, Edmonton Sun (Canada), 1/1/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/leukemia-survivor-credits-honey-for.html It was an emotional New Year's Eve celebration for Dr. Heime Geffen and his family last night -- a toast not only to 2008 but to Geffen's mysterious survival. They also raised their glasses to a special honey from the Holy Land that Geffen believes helped bring him back from the brink of death... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:52:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Superboost and the SHB (?) In-Reply-To: <000d01c84b7d$3c9fa5f0$cd32643b@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm intrigued by the availability of Superboost, kind of reminds me of the benefits of Bovine Somatotropin in dairy cows. However, if you read the Jan 08 issue of American Bee Journal, page 44 of an excellent article on the Small Hive Beetle, the author cites the addition of beetle lures to increase the efficiency of beetle traps, among which is "brood pheromone." Is this the same stuff as Superboost? Are we moving into a product that has a tremendous benefit to beekeepers but also a dark underbelly that it may attract SHBs? Or can we use Superboost in our SHB traps? Thanks, Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:23:41 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Superboost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor asked> Does anyone know if, in the trials being undertaken, the hives are being monitored for Nosema, both apis and ceranae? Hi Trevor, This is one of the first questions that occurred to me, too. After the question as to where in the world are our stressed bees going to find the extra energy to be supercharged by the addition of pheremone? It would seem that Superboost would shift the colony demographics toward younger bees. Nosema apparently requires older bees to thrive. However, without a substantial proportion of older long-lived foragers, colonies with amplified broodrearing will run short of food. I'm curious to see the results, should anyone perform such a trial. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:29:37 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Comments? Interesting hypothesis, Bob, but my guess is that there are more likely explanations. For example, Kleinschmidt's research found that Nosema apis populations exploded when bees were stressed during cold weather, or when colonies were chilled. I also am wondering just how close our colonies are to the edge sometimes, what with nutritional stress, varroa, viruses, etc. It may just be that we are seeing the final straw being reached, by disrupting the cluster during the winter, or any number of other insults to the colony. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 10:53:22 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This [dielsel fumes] would not explain the CCD cases found in > non-migratory operations, I don't think that Bob was trying to explain CCD cases. Rather, he was specifically referring to a limited group of collapses that occur immediately after long-term hauling involving rests next to idling diesel trucks. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 14:39:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/01/2008 18:57:23 GMT Standard Time, randyoliver@INFS.NET writes: Nosema apis populations exploded when bees were stressed during cold weather, or when colonies were chilled. Normally bees deposit their faeces outside the hive and this limits the passage of Nosema from one bee to another. However, when they are unable to do so, for example when shut up for transport, they will soil the combs. This has to be cleaned up by the bees. One of the first jobs a worker bee does as a junior is to do the cleaning. The tool she uses is her tongue. The next job she goes to is feeding the babies using the same tongue now contaminated with nosema spores. I don't suppose people will give up transporting hives to the almonds and elsewhere, but maybe it would be a good idea on arrival to shake the bees onto fresh comb/foundation/starter strips and dispose of the old comb and frames in a way that bees can't get at them; preferably sustainably. They might need a quick initial feed to get them over the shock and initiate comb building. This is said to stimulate pollen collection (although I am not sure whether this is so in the absence of brood) but in any case the grower has in his orchard a colony of adult bees with no brood to look after and so they can ALL (except queen and drones) go foraging and pollinating, which is what he's paying for. The flowering season is probably over by the time any brood that was in the hive would normally forage. Shook swarms in a clean, disease-free environment frequently bounce back and do better than those left on old comb. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:53:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Randy wrote: > I don't think that Bob was trying to explain CCD cases. * He certainly gave that impression. Bob wrote: > Most CCD claimed crashes of semi loads of bees occurred after the bees were unloaded at their destination. > We have got an hypothesis that the new diesel fuel additives being added to replace sulfur and increase fuel mileage might be causing hives to crash. * * * I don't think this is the typical pattern of bee poisoning by fumes. If the fumes were so toxic, one would expect bees dying on the truck. Years ago I almost killed a yard with fumes. I had 85 hives in a location near San Diego. I had been battling ants all summer. The came up out of the cracks in the adobe soil and were overwhelming the weaker hives one by one. They would drive the bees out of the hives and eat the brood and honey. So -- I started putting powdered diazinon around the hives. They were about ten inches off the ground (we used old bee supers as hive stands). This was working pretty well, until the temperatures went above 100F. Then the stuff started to vaporize and the bees started pouring out of the hives to die. I borrowed a bee truck and loaded them all up. I parked the truck over night, in order to unload at dawn. The bees kept coming out of the hives to die during the night. Once they were on site, though, they die-off stopped. So, I think a fume kill would be immediate and not delayed reaction like CCD. -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:23:19 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris wrote: > Normally bees deposit their faeces outside the hive and this limits the > passage of Nosema from one bee to another. Right you are Chris. But my take on the nosema research is that chilling alone causes nosema (apis, at least) explosion irregardless of defecation. I have no idea whether it has to do with bee immune function or nosema reproduction. Randy ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 23:08:35 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: CCD In-Reply-To: <017701c84cde$981b5d40$4101a8c0@GATEWAY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Randy Couldn't it be something regarding consumption of body fat/lipids reservs beyond a given threshold during chilling? Could it be dehydratation and a ralentization of inmune system? couldn't it be that after a chilling period bees eat part of their inhive winter reservs full of nosema spores? Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:37:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juanse asked;>couldn't it be that after a chilling period > bees eat part of their inhive winter reservs full of nosema spores? Could be any of the others, but not this one. Kleinschmit's bees were caged, not on stores. Randy ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 01:09:22 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: SHB traps? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline , Grant Gillard >>> Or can we use Superboost in our SHB traps? what is or how is a SHB trap? :The Llaima Volcano is under eruption just in front of me. Amazing!!!. Good the wind is blowing northest wards (coming from the SW). Lava is recorded at argentina. Ashes everywhere. check google earth at -38.71 -71.73 Araucania , Chile -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 23:51:16 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I said: >> This [diesel fumes] would not explain the CCD cases >> found in non-migratory operations... Randy offered: > I don't think that Bob was trying to explain CCD cases. This thread was started by Bob, entitled "CCD" by Bob, and kicked off with this extraordinary claim from Bob: >>> beekeepers talking CCD with other beekeepers have >>> came up with any interesting finding to consider. >>> Most CCD claimed crashes of semi loads of bees occurred >>> after the bees were unloaded at their destination. I don't see much room for alternative interpretation, even if it would be entertaining to hear Randy's explanation of what Bob might have actually meant. I guess the deciding factor here would be what, if any level of combustion byproducts could be found in bees, on comb, and so on. Something that could cause a hive to collapse in days would have to be a serious and detectable level of hydrocarbons. Regardless, I don't see how a truckload of bees in any but the coldest temperatures could be left idling at a truck stop long enough to get a "good whiff" of diesel exhaust without first suffering from the heat and lack of ventilation. Yes, one can hose down the load and keep the bees cool, but even this does not allow a load to sit for hours at a time. Yes, midwestern bees are moved "cold" to the almonds, but aside from bees being moved to the almonds, I can't think of any other scenario where bees would be moved "cold". When in motion, trucks tend to create quite a bit of turbulence in their wake. Follow a tractor-trailer in the rain for a demonstration of the long vortex trucks leave behind. I guess it is possible for the hives nearest the exhaust pipes to get some serious whiffs, but I can't see the whole load getting a snootfull. I recall seeing soot smudges on trailers near the exhaust pipes that are fairly narrow and well defined, showing that the exhaust is quickly picked up and fed into the slipstream around the trailer. But the idea would be easy to confirm or deny with simple and low-cost tests. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 03:30:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/01/2008 01:39:31 GMT Standard Time, randyoliver@INFS.NET writes: But my take on the nosema research is that chilling alone causes nosema (apis, at least) explosion irregardless of defecation. That, if it is the case, can affect only the bees that already have Nosema and so will already have shortened lifespan. It doesn't explain increased transmission. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 03:32:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/01/2008 02:29:26 GMT Standard Time, juanseapi@GMAIL.COM writes: couldn't it be that after a chilling period bees eat part of their inhive winter reservs full of nosema spores? Why should their in hive winter reserves be full of Nosema spores? Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:12:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron & Eefje Subject: Re: CCD In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, At least one reason why Nosema of any kind would increase more rapidly during the winter period in colder climates is the fact that the bees are forced to stay in the hives for al that time. During that time they still have to relief themselves some times so when that is done in the hive it will likely contain some Nosema spores. When other bees then try to remove some of the excrements they are automatically picking up spores and the infective chain is there and soon taking on an explosive character. I don't know at which part of the hive the bees tend to relief themselves most, but is is bound to finish up everywhere anyway later in the winter, since many bees are by then bursting from/with Nosema and no longer release it in the most ideal spots, which would have been outside the hive. Ron van Mierlo ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 20:20:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: Re: CCD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, Still unable to send email due to a weak wireless signal so comments in the long form will come later. Also answers to Medhats private questions. The main points on the DE hypothesis: 90% of harmful emissions go away after idle.At idle harmful emissions the highest. chemical particle size is small enough to be a problem for insects. No research has ever been done on if DE emissions are harmful to insects. Due to DOT regulations most semi loads from the Midwest are only on the road for up to ten hours and then sit all night in a truck stop. At least 30 hours for loads from the Midwest and 40+ for Florida/Georgia loads I know of only a couple beekeepers with their own semi's which use two drivers. We have never sent a load with other than a single driver. The trend today is a single driver only driving 8-10 hours a day taking bees to almonds. Problems with DOA on arrival or shortly after started after the new additives were put in use. The first year the industry placed the problem on varroa control. The next year CCD and this years trucking has just started so we will have to wait and see. We started looking at the hypothesis after my last almond article. We blamed the California graders as we know what those bees looked like before shipment (due to the warm weather we had gone through the hives before shipment). As I said in my article five loads from the Dakotas were basically DOA on arrival . When I spoke with the beekeeper he said the bees looked great before shipment. This was the year before CCD so little interest except for my article. Hopefully members of the national organizations will see fit to provide research funds for our hypothesis. A board member of the ABF will present our hypothesis. Sincerely, Bob Harrison In the deep south with temps going into teens tonight. Snow forecast for parts of Florida. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:34:21 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Cool Brood : Nosema ceranae, a different aproach? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline from http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=3Dget-document&doi=3D10.1= 371/journal.pbio.0050168&ct=3D1 Cool brood Remarkably, honey bees maintain the temperature of their brood nest within = =B1 0.5 =B0C of 34.5 =B0C, despite major fluctuations in ambient temperature [53]. If the brood is incubated a little outside this range, the resulting adults are normal physically, but show deficiencies in learning and memory [54 ,55]. Workers reared at suboptimal temperatures tend to get lost in the field, an= d can't perform communication dances effectively [54]. Although entirely a hypothesis, I suspect that if colonies were unable to maintain optimal brood nest temperatures, CCD-like symptoms would be apparent. ..... I suggest that another possible cause of CCD might simply be inadequate incubation of the brood. Thus any factor=97infections, chronic exposure to insecticides, inadequate nutrition, migration in adult population, and inadequate regulation of brood temperature might cause CCD-like symptoms. My hypothesis could be easily tested by removing brood from several colonie= s and incubating some of it at optimal temperature and some at suboptimal temperature. The brood would then be used to constitute new colonies in which some colonies comprise workers raised at low temperature and some comprise workers raised at optimal temperature. I predict that the colonies comprising workers reared at suboptimal temperature will show signs of CCD. Moreover, I would not be surprised if they showed higher levels of stress-related viral infections. These effects could act synergistically=97more virus leads to shorter-lived, less efficient workers= , that in turn leads to suboptimal temperature regulation, and more short-lived bees. --=20 Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:36:11 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Cool Brood: CCD I meant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sorry i wanted to write on previous mail Cool Brood : CCD and not Cool brood: Nosema ceranae... I've noticed after the enter :( -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 05:19:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Saharan Honey Shows Higher Antibacterial Potency MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Saharan Honey Shows Higher Antibacterial Potency Sahara Honey Shows Higher Potency Against Pseudomonas Aeruginosa Compared to North Algerian Types of Honey Journal of Medicinal Food, 2007, 10(4): 712-714 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/saharan-honey-shows-higher.html Six varieties of honey from different regions in Algeria were used to determine their potency against Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Four varieties originated from northern Algeria, and two from the Sahara. Three types of media were used... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 07:17:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Cool Brood: CCD I meant Comments: To: Juanse Barros Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit See: Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:46:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Abnormal brood temperature affects bee dances and orientation ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 07:57:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Cool Brood: CCD I meant In-Reply-To: <200801031244.m03CU2JP013830@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit See: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:24:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: CCD In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Seems to me if new additives are causing more hazardous diesel emissions to bees?whie truck is?idle, then humans are at increased risk as well...particularly in the larger metropolitan areas.? Any information as to the?new substances that are produced that are different than previous emissions?? or produced in greater quantity?? With all the emphasis from the government?on clean air, I'm surprised this would be a factor. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:42:36 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: New York state looking to improve farmers' access to local mar kets and schools Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Related to sustainability as in being able to buy locally produced food - an example of efforts to help link farmers with their local markets. NY beekeepers should benefit by asking to channel their honey through some of these distribution hubs. Waldemar -------------------------------------------------------- Press Release provided by New York State Ag & Markets Contact: Jessica A. Chittenden 518-457-3136 jessica.chittenden@agmkt.state.ny.us [mailto:jessica.chittenden@agmkt.state.ny.us] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ COMMISSIONER AWARDS OVER $300,000 TO ADVANCE AGRICULTURE IN NY Access to New York Food is Common Theme Among Grant Recipients Two Long Island Recipients target need for bio diesel research and NY foods in NY schools ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Albany, NY. New York State Agriculture Commissioner Patrick Hooker today announced 312,500 in State funding to seven grant recipients under the Food and Agriculture Industry Development (FAID) Program. The FAID grants support innovative approaches to the research, development, production, processing, marketing and distribution of agricultural products in New York State. <...> The FAID Program provides up to $60,000 in matching funds to public and private agencies, organizations, businesses, educational institutions, local governments and individuals submitting proposals that capitalize on the State's unique resources and strategic location to maximize the economic vitality of New York agriculture. Eligible projects involve new product development; alternative production, processing, distribution and marketing methods or technologies; the introduction of new technologies; or organizational methods that further the development of New York's food and agricultural industry. <...> consumers. Senator David J. Valesky said, "In Upstate New York, we are growing wholesome and healthy agricultural products. In cities upstate and down, we have consumers and institutions, like schools, ready for our products. The challenge is getting our products from the farms to the consumers. <...> these FAID grants will help create that critical link between what we grow and what we eat." Assembly Agriculture Committee Chair Bill Magee said, "Our farmers do a tremendous job producing our food but in many cases their access to new markets and distribution has proven to be quite a challenge. <...> ultimately ensure that are our farmers are able to continue to do what they do best, produce a safe, healthy and nutritious food supply." Dave Evans, Director of Nelson Farms and a recipient of a FAID grant, said, "It has always been a challenge for specialty food entrepreneurs to introduce and distribute their products to new markets. Nelson Farms has been able to help by offering manufacturing services as well as a country store that features Pride of New York products exclusively. This grant will now allow Nelson Farms to assume the role as the "distribution hub" for Pride of New York specialty food products, helping all New York specialty food producers expand their markets in a cost effective manner throughout New York State." Since the program's inception in 2000, more than $3.8 million in FAID grants have been distributed to support 117 agricultural projects across the State. Agriculture is one of New York's largest and most vital industries, encompassing 25 percent of the State's landscape and generating more than $3.6 billion for our economy each year. New York State has 7.6 million acres of farmland with 35,000 farms. The State is also a leader in a variety of farm products, ranking first in cottage cheese, second in apples and cabbage, and third in milk, maple syrup, grapes, sweet corn, snap beans, and cauliflower. A complete list of grant recipients is attached. RECIPIENTS OF ROUND VII FAID GRANTS Karp Resources (Suffolk County) $58,240 Build on the current efforts to increase the amount of New York farm products served in New York City school meals, and will build capacity for ongoing, institutionalized, and self-sustaining local food procurement for New York City public schools. Martin Sidor Farms (Suffolk County) $38,400 Continue to test locally-inspired flavors for their locally grown and produced potato chips in addition to the five flavors they currently have. In addition, Martin Sidor Farms plans to process used sunflower oil into biofuel for their tractors, as well as possibly for other local farmers. City Harvest, Inc. (New York County) $60,000 Strengthen and diversify food systems in neighborhoods underserved by New York farmers and that have limited access to healthy food outlets, poor dietary habits and low incomes. City Harvest's project, Farm Linkages, will also help transform four neighborhoods into "local food zones," helping to create new direct farm outlets and expand consumer use of existing channels for local farm products. Farmers' Market Federation of New York (Onondaga County) $60,000 Develop a pilot project to add debit and/or credit cards to food stamp capability in farmers' markets participating in the NYS Farmers Market Wireless EBT program, which provides authorized farmers' markets with a wireless terminal to accept electronic benefit transactions, along with services to support the terminal and food stamp transactions. Nelson Farms Marketing Group (Madison County) $59,309 Enhance the distribution capabilities of a specialty small scale food processor by creating and maintaining a specialty food distributorship. Nelson Farms plans to hire a salesperson, establish distribution routes within New York State, and work with the Pride of New York program to help market and backhaul products, reducing the shipping costs for small scale processors. Ontario County Cooperative Extension (Ontario County) $7,250 Develop a "Marketing School for Agriculture," which will provide profitable insights about emerging markets in New York State. The program is directed at farmers who are looking to expand sales of retail, wholesale, and direct marketed products like produce, meats, dairy products, horticulture crops, maple syrup, and value-added farm products. SUNY Alfred (Allegany County) $29,320 Create a system whereby local farmers can supply Alfred State College's dining services with fresh produce. The Center for Organic and Sustainable Agriculture will provide support and training services for local farmers including assistance and training in increasing and improving production, as well as development of new and value-added products. TOTAL AWARDED FAID GRANTS $312,519 Press Release provided by New York State Ag & Markets Contact: Jessica A. Chittenden 518-457-3136 jessica.chittenden@agmkt.state.ny.us [mailto:jessica.chittenden@agmkt.state.ny.us] In other related news - Long Island recieves 5 million for Farmland Protection from New York State. [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001fo4v9M0EX6n_aPwgi5x76JbkHxyB4xBgYyJtThFbd1HggeqxDUNpNjp29CWzgWHt5E_nkChmM8VSL9qcGnJ5WNDiIhtOU26NLSMscgSKorAKoVkSwxt0EHtDGqLy0M-hTEEhYXjCffvWeVpSmissrG1iuydyONYHaMF58TIDxwA=] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Long Island Farm Bureau is a grassroots, advocacy organization dedicated to solving economic and public policy issues challenging the Long Island Agricultural community. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This email was sent to waldig@netzero.com, by nbeccaria@lifb.com Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Email Marketing by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com Long Island Farm Bureau | 104 Edwards Avenue | Suite 3 | Calverton | NY | 11933 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:03:05 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > if new additives are causing more hazardous > diesel emissions to bees... I think that the unintentional comedy has gone on long enough. There has been no mention of any "new fuel additives" as a result of the shift to the new "Ultra-low sulfur" diesel fuel. All that has been done is that the sulfur content of the fuel has been reduced. The basic idea here was to make diesel emissions LESS hazardous. The impact was measurable and immediate. NOx and SOx emissions (oxides of nitrogen and sulfur) went way down in areas away from the impact of power plant smokestacks. Particulates (soot) also went way down. The reduction in sulfur does imply that prudent truckers will use new diesel engine oils of the type "CJ-4", but the change in the suggested engine oil is the only change that results from the change in fuel. (Apparently, the high sulfur content provided a lubrication advantage.) Bob's questions have already been answered by the European experience. European trucks have been following "low-sulfur standards" for years, and amazingly enough, European bees have not been dropping dead or suffering from unusual post-movement symptoms. If anyone is interested, the details are documented in staggeringly boring articles like this one: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=1036 Next up, we will attempt to link CCD to... ...[spins the "Wheel Of Misfortune"]... ...Chemtrails! ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:26:34 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Nosema and deadout update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi All, I thought that I'd post a report of what I'm seeing in my own colonies, should anyone be interested. We had a few warm flight days this week, which allowed me to open my colonies for an oxalic dribble before they brood up. I took the opportunity to take samples of dead and dying bees from the fronts of colonies, from the surviving clusters of dwindling colonies, and from the bottom boards of deadouts. I ran most of my operation with minimal mite treatments again this year, experimenting with breeding stock, management, different treatments and timing, etc (if I had any business sense, I would have just used off-label miticides). We monitored mite levels fairly closely, on a hive by hive basis. Many colonies thrived (largely dependent upon location), some lagged (apparently due to Nosema ceranae), and some made honey and crashed come winter (mainly due to varroa/virus). Some deadouts I have no explanation for. No sign of anything that I'd call CCD. Genetics are apparently a big factor, with huge colony-to-colony variations in mite levels, honey production, and nosema levels. I have several promising breeder candidates. There was an unusual amount of Deformed Wing Virus, even when mite levels were low. I have no explanation. Nosema counts were high in my California yards (dry summer), and low in out of state yards (irrigated alfalfa). Also high in varroa-infested colonies. The high nosema colonies are currently consolidated into one yard for a field trial of treatments, and are mostly going downhill. The dead bee samples mostly had negligible nosema spores, so I'm not about to blame nosema for the deadout problems. However, a sample of forager bees actively robbing a deadout had a high nosema spore count. In general, the yards that got better nutrition, either natural or supplemented, fared better. No surprise that! One striking observation was that the colonies that were most severely mite infested in August, that I then treated with any treatment (I experimented with various application methods of formic pad, thymol gel, oxalic dribbles, and powdered sugar), generally recovered and are looking good, regardless of treatment used (powdered sugar being less successful at bringing down high mite counts). On the other hand, many colonies that had very low mite levels in August, and weren't treated, died. Most of the above observations are not surprising in any way. There were few problems that could not be attributed to nutrition, varroa, or nosema. The take home lessons for me were to be proactive with nutrition, monitor for nosema early in the season, and to treat all colonies for varroa in mid August whether I think they need it or not. The timing of the treatment appeared to be more important than the actual treatment used. Randy Oliver--still plodding along the learning curve ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 00:07:14 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10801031826s2273e202l48804aed6063159a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Randy, thanks for sharing your field notes. You said: ... monitor for nosema early in the season... and treat with ..... what did you use when? I ask. "The take home lessons for me were to be proactive with nutrition, monitor for nosema early in the season, and to treat all colonies for varroa in mid August whether I think they need it or not." -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 05:37:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Study: Honey is a 'Living' Food, Refined Sugar is Biologically 'Dead' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Study: Honey is a 'Living' Food, Refined Sugar is Biologically 'Dead' Analysis of Honey Quality Through 'Sensitive Crystallization' http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/study-honey-is-living-food-refined.html [Note: The following paper was presented at the First International Symposium of the Romanian Apitherapy Society, December 7-9, 2007, in Cluj-Napoca.] Abstract: Our purpose was to find out if the sensitive crystallization method makes evident the differences of biological quality between: • honey and sugar, • honey and honey mixed with sugar syrup in different proportions (10%, 20%, 50% and 70%), • liquid all flower honey and natural sugared all flower honey, • some kinds of honey (all flower honey, sugared all flower honey, sugared rape honey, sugared lime honey, acacia honey and forest honey)... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Re: CCD In-Reply-To: <8CA1C2B6D94747B-84-2E1E@Webmail-mg02.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only thing I've read regarding the fuel is it is now required to be ULSD, ultra low sulphar diesel,15 ppm max. I've not read of any new additives just more regs from the government under the umbrella of pollutants and "global warming".I'd bet to say all of our third world countries still have the old fuel for use too.________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 16:09:25 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Study: Honey is a 'Living' Food, Refined Sugar is Biologic ally 'Dead' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I wonder if the honey signature is different between the raw and pasturized forms. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:18:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10801031826s2273e202l48804aed6063159a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Randy & All, I like my friend Randy will continue to try and figure todays beekeeping problems out. I was going to answer Randy direct but perhaps my input might help others on the list. Thanks for sharing Randy! > There was an unusual amount of Deformed Wing Virus, even when mite levels > were low. I have no explanation. We saw DWV from the start of the varroa infestation (late 80's)but ONLY in hives with high infestation. About five years ago many of us checking varroa loads started reporting we were seeing Parasitic Mite Syndrum (PMS) in hives with low mite loads through various testing methods. Researchers explained to me that despite what the varroa threshold crowd was preaching that testing methods (varroa natural drop and rolls) were crude and was the problem. Those hives did contain high mite loads. They said taking a section of brood comb and pulling all the pupa and counting varroa was the most accurate and the method they had moved to. I used the brood method on test hives but found what Randy did above. I have no explanation but add that I am sure in the first decade of varroa when we had treatments with 98% varroa control that we saw no DWV (or pms) in hives with low mite levels. > On the other hand, many colonies that had very low mite > levels in August, and weren't treated, died. What could be the reason? If the researchers which said my mite load testing was not accurate were incorrect then what else could be the cause? possible answers: 1.Virus issues are different. 2. If No. 1 is true then treating all hives in fall might be a solution for certain non varroa tolerant lines of bees. 3.Five years ago my researchers would have said Randy's hives had a higher varroa load than he found with his testing methods. I tended to agree five years ago but not today. It is my opinion that DWV (and PMS) is being seen in some hives with low varroa loads. Also that the Russian bee tolerates varroa loads higher than most lines will without PMS. I mean varroa loads over threshold with no PMS. I have no explanation other than genetics. However those genetics seem to go away quickly when the pure Russian is out crossed ( my own testing of over 400 Russian hives). Dr. Shiminuki said he felt through breeding we would come up with a varroa tolerant bee within 20 years. Well 20 has just passed and we have made some small steps in the right direction but still the bee which will handle varroa untreated from now on has not appeared. The Russian bee is the nearest to our goal for the commercial beekeeper but they still have qualities I do not care for but I am bringing in some Russian queens to use this spring. I respect the opinions of beekeepers like Charlie Harper, Hubert Tubbs and Carl Webb enough to take another look. Good results are being seen with the VSH and the Marla Spivak queens but only reports from those using those queens. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:28:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: International Heritage Site Tag Sought for Indian Bee Tree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII International Heritage Site Tag Sought for Indian Bee Tree A Tree Full of Honey The Hindu (India), 1/4/2007 http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/04/stories/2008010454310400.htm ...A unique banyan tree near Nandagudi in Hoskote taluk that has the "world's largest number of beehives" - as many as 600 - is being pegged for an International Heritage Site tag... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:56:22 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Study: Honey is a 'Living' Food, Refined Sugar is Biologic ally 'Dead' In-Reply-To: <20080104.080925.8813.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The honey signature would have to be different, especially if pasturized and passed thru paper filtering plates to take out naturally occurring subparticles suspended normally found in raw honey such as propolis/minute pollen specs. Dee- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 22:46:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote . Well 20 has just passed and we have made some small steps in the right direction but still the bee which will handle varroa untreated from now on has not appeared. My response: Bob, I have read comments from you like the above before. What strikes me is the "matter of fact" quality of the statement. I must say that I feel that you are wrong about not having a varroa resistant bee. I have not treated any of my hives in about 2 years and some for as many as 5+ years. My strongest observed yard has not been treated for 4 years and only about half the hives requeeened by me in that time. My losses have been normal(by the way,I have ~300 colonies). I am not alone in having this kind of success. Is it possible that there are conditions or other geographical locations where they might melt down? Why.. yes it is!...but I know of others in other locations that are not melting down. I have a growing confidence fueled by more and more "data points" that there are good producing bees that can thrive without treatments so I must disagree with the ironclad nature of your statement above. One other thing, when i say varroa resistant, I mean bees able to survive and thrive without treatments-not w/o infestations of varying degrees John Horton North Alabama ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 05:09:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Study Explains Anti-Inflammatory Activity of Propolis Component MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Study Explains Anti-Inflammatory Activity of Propolis Component Differential Regulation of c-jun N-Terminal Kinase and NF-kappaB Pathway by Caffeic Acid Phenethyl Ester in Astroglial and Monocytic Cells Journal of Neurochemistry, Online Accepted Articles http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/study-explains-anti-inflammatory.html Caffeic acid phenethyl ester (CAPE), an active component of propolis extracts, has been known for its specific inhibition of nuclear factor kappaB (NF-kappaB) and subsequent anti-inflammatory activity... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:33:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Diesel exhaust MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline An AQMD report cautions that many areas still have dangerously high levels of pollution. Diesel exhaust is the largest problem. Cancer risk from Southern California's air pollution has declined 17% over the last seven years but remains dangerously high across the region, particularly near ports and rail yards, along truck-laden freeways and in parts of the Inland Empire, according to a study released by regional air regulators Friday. South Coast Air Quality Management District officials attributed the decline to tough regulations on dry-cleaners and industry; grants to fund cleaner technologies and fuels; and emission-reduction programs at the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. Levels of heavy metals, solvents and other known carcinogens fell at most monitoring stations in the region, according to the report. "This reduction in cancer risk shows that we are on the right track in tackling toxic air pollution," said William Burke, chairman of the AQMD Governing Board, which released the report. "However, the remaining cancer risk is completely unacceptable. Thousands of residents are getting sick and dying from toxic air pollution. Some of them live in low-income minority neighborhoods that may be heavily impacted by cancer-causing air pollution." The analysis found that exposure to the 30 common toxic substances measured could result in 1,000 to 1,200 cancer cases per 1 million residents over 70 years. That is a 17% reduction from the average risk estimated in AQMD's previous study of toxic substances in the air in 1999. The cancer risk generally considered reasonable by health experts is 10 cases per million people over a 70-year period, said AQMD Executive Officer Barry Wallerstein. Diesel exhaust from ships, trains and trucks remains the single largest problem, the analysis found. "Diesel exhaust is the 900-pound gorilla," said board member Dennis Yates, mayor of Chino. "There's 1,000 steps to what they did, with varying degrees of validity," said Amy Kyle, an environmental health scientist at UC Berkeley who specializes in interpreting data used to develop policy. Kyle noted that the type of analysis done by AQMD focused on only 30 of nearly 200 contaminants recognized as being toxic almost 20 years ago and that their conclusions were based on "very limited testing." "They identify these 30, but for many other chemicals, we don't know their toxicity," she said. "There's no doubt diesel is a major culprit. . . . No one would argue that. But we don't know what else is out there, and that is my concern." Wallerstein said the toxic substances they monitored are widely recognized as the "major drivers" of air pollution and related health effects. He said one of the main reasons for updating the study was to use newer, more widely recognized modeling and updated emissions information. SOURCE: Janet Wilson, Los Angeles Times January 5, 2008 Additional information can be found on the agency's website at www.aqmd.gov. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:55:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Study: Honey is a 'Living' Food MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Waldig writes: > I wonder if the honey signature is different between the raw and pasturized forms. The doctrine of signatures is an ancient European philosophy that held that plants bearing parts that resembled human body parts, animals, or other objects, had useful relevancy to those parts, animals or objects. It could also refer to the environments or specific sites in which plants grew. The 17th century botanist and herbalist William Coles (1626-1662), author of The Art of Simpling and Adam in Eden, found that walnuts were good for curing head ailments because "they Have the perfect Signatures of the Head". The doctrine of signatures was expounded in mainstream medical texts into the 19th century and has remained a working principle of homeopathic medicine. * * * The study mentioned proposes: Sensitive crystallization marks prove that every kind of honey has: • a high biologically nutritional value and a special vital charge; • the specific honey's sensible crystallization images are very similar with the herbal plant's sensible crystallization images; this fact suggest a sui-generis "transfer" of vitality from herbal plant visited by bees to honey; as the honey is fresher the sensible crystallization images are more complex, reflecting in this way the high biologically value of the fresh honey; * * * The "sensitive crystallization" method studies the forms resulting through evaporation of a water solution of cupric chlorine that has added to it an extremely small quantity of the substance to be analyzed. The method was originally developed by Dr. Ehrenfried Pfeiffer Ehrenfried Pfeiffer began work with Rudolf Steiner in 1920, and was a pioneer of biodynamic agriculture in America. Pfeiffer invented two anthroposophic image forming methods, a method using a round filter chromatography (circular chromatography or chroma test) and the copper chloride crystallization method, developed together with Erika Sabarth. In the latter method, a solution of copper chloride and the test solution is allowed to evaporate. The pattern of the copper chloride crystals can be "read" based on the patterns of known samples. Pfeiffer felt that these imaging methods showed the presence of life-forces or etheric formative forces and could be used to gauge the quality or vitality in food, such as would be shown in biodynamically grown food. Some proponents, as well as critics, recognize that these methods are very much dependent on the interpretive ability of the researcher. * * * Biodynamic agriculture, or biodynamics, comprises an ecological and sustainable farming system, that includes many of the ideas of organic farming (but predates the term). In 1924, a group of farmers concerned about the future of agriculture requested Steiner's help; Steiner responded with a lecture series on agriculture. This was the origin of biodynamic agriculture, which is now practiced throughout much of Europe, North America, and Australasia. A central concept of these lectures was to "individualize" the farm by bringing no or few outside materials onto the farm, but producing all needed materials such as manure and animal feed from within what he called the "farm organism". ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 11:33:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance In-Reply-To: <007801c84f56$16781790$b6e84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello John & All, > I am not alone in having this kind of success. Are you saying if we take some of your genetics and raise queens all our varroa problems will go away? We can start introducing into the wild?The varroa tolerant will remain even if open mating is allowed? I would be willing to test some queens. However I have not got the 4-5 years to wait so would use added varroa presure (similar to Purvis Brothers method) to test. If you look back at my posts from the nineties I have said over and over that most survivor colonies crash when varroa pressure is added. Even after 20 years there is quite a bit about why one hive handles varroa and another doesn't we do not understand. Also why varroa tolerance seems to fade away in future generations unless you keep updating varroa tolerant breeding material. I am glad you are able to keep bees on a small commercial level without treatments! Big improvement over 20 years ago but still not what Dr. Shiminuki (retired head of Beltsville and editor of new ABC XYZ) felt we would see in 20 years Are you using survivor queens from your queen line or have you brought in Russian/VSH/ Purvis brothers, Marla Spivak or other varroa tolerant genetics to improve varroa control? The Russian bee varroa tolerance has been somewhat of a mystery to researchers. Many say Purvis Brothers success has been because of bring in varroa tolerant stock into his lines. I say his success has been through the use of adding varroa pressure, trying to kill off at least fifty percent a year of possible breeder queens and strict culling. His is the only program in the world I know of using added varroa pressure. Big difference between a race car at idle and at speeds of over 200 MPH. You may well have the genetics I am looking for if you have got a line which will go 4-5 years untreated. Please explain further. Actually in today's beekeeping the genetic's which you seem to have would work. Most commercial beekeepers requeen at least every two years so saving the cost of treatment and labor spikes interest. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:39:51 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance In-Reply-To: <49457.24.178.124.154.1199554391.squirrel@mail.discoverynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Re: mite resistant queens What I saw this year is very good resistance to varroa this year by about 80% of my colonies. What surprised me and another buddy is the losses of some strong colonies despite having low mite levels. It used to be that varroa infestation needed to be fairly high to kick off viral collapse. Now it appears that we can lose colonies that have fairly low mite levels in fall. I've ruled out nosema as a suspect in many--so that most likely leaves viruses. I feel that mites are still associated, since colonies that received late summer mite treatments fared better. It is obvious to me that we've come a long way toward breeding mite resistant queens. Such bees greatly reduce the need for mite treatments. However, there are more disease issues afoot than just mites alone. In such cases, even low mite levels may tip the balance against the bees. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 19:52:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10801051439i4130b021uf15f03f3ea5392c5@mail.gmail.co m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >However, there are more disease issues afoot than just mites alone. In such >cases, even low mite levels may tip the balance against the bees. And what about virus resistance. Are these dead colonies just more susceptable? Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 05:19:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Apitherapy to be Discussed at U.S. Beekeeping Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Apitherapy to be Discussed at U.S. Beekeeping Conference First National Beekeeping Conference This Week Everyone Who's Anyone Gathers to Talk Bees, Honey, Etc. By Kim Flottum, The Daily Green, 1/6/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-symposium-to-focus-on-honey-and.html ...Coming together at this meeting is absolutely, and I mean absolutely everybody who has anything to do with bees, beekeeping, honey, apitherapy, honey bee science, honey bee laws and regulations, growers of crops that need honey bee pollination, manufacturers and sellers of beekeeping equipment, books, supplies and related items, and of course regular beekeepers. Starting off, there's a one-day symposium on using honey for health with a host of international speakers attending to tell the us (and you, if you want to attend) why honey is good for you (according to them I should live to be about 250-years-old for all the honey I eat); another group will be here to discuss the health benefits of all the hive products including honey... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:09:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: is there an easy test for Nosema A and Nosema C? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1DBF7287; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-47810B5F3D71=======" --=======AVGMAIL-47810B5F3D71======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1DBF7287 We all know about feces splattered hives, but is there a low cost test to confirm an infection of nosema apis or nosema cerana? The goal here is a positive ID to then treat with Fumidil/fumigillin. I'm presuming the same treatment will work well on both forms of nosema. Also, does the USDA lab at beltsville now do a routine check for nosema apis and nosema cerana on samples submitted by beekeepers? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** --=======AVGMAIL-47810B5F3D71======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1DBF7287 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date: 1/5/2008 1= 1:46 AM ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** --=======AVGMAIL-47810B5F3D71=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:39:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: is there an easy test for Nosema A and Nosema C? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's easy enough with an 'every schoolchild should have one' microscope at a magnification of 400x. Take the abdomens of about 30 bees and squash them in a saucer. Add a few drops of distilled water (melted from the wall of your freezer) to make a runny mush. Transfer a drop to the microscope slide. Add a cover slip. Put onto the microscope stage and focus. You will see a strange world of pine trees (plumose hairs) vacuum cleaner hoses (tracheae) shining planets (air bubbles) sculpted boulders (pollen grains)and rice grains (nosema spores). If the Nosema spores are the same size then you have one sort; if of 2 sizes then you have both sorts, the larger being N.Apis and the smaller N.Ceraneae. Both will respond to Fumagillin but both will re-infect the bees from dirty comb as soon as the brood nest starts to expand. You don't want to treat again with antibiotic do you? The authorities are now testing for antibiotic residues in honey and shiploads have been condemned. Remove the bees from the source of infection by transferring them to clean combs as soon as practicable. The fumes of 80% acetic acid are effective against Nosema spores but not against every comb-borne infection. Either stack the boxes of comb with a pad of acid-soaked cotton wool between each stratum, sealing the gaps between the boxes with sticky tape, or else put all the frames into a large plastic sack, chuck in a cup of acid and tie the neck. In both cases leave for at least a week for the fumes to do their work. Acetic acid at that concentration (vinegar is about 6%) can be dangerous and will skin you if splashed so take sensible precautions. If you are sold 100% glacial acid dilute it by adding the acid to water, not the other way around or you may get a face full (unless Ruary Rudd corrects me to say that it doesn't give off heat when water is added - I can't remember but I don't intend to find out the hard way!) Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:36:53 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Study: Honey is a 'Living' Food Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>The doctrine of signatures is an ancient European philosophy that held that plants bearing parts that resembled human body parts, animals, or other objects, had useful relevancy to those parts... I don't know what to make of this philosophy - the resemblence would seem more coincidental than relevant - but I would like to learn more about how valid measuring food, including honey, energy is. I've heard that, based on the measurements, raw food has higher 'living energy' than cooked food and frozen food (that was allowed to fully ripen in the field prior to picking) has higher energy than 'fresh' (but unripened) produce in the supermarket. If anyone is familiar with this energy and how it can be measured, please reply (here or in private). Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 18:32:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: biodynamic agriculture Comments: To: Waldemar Galka Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would be wary of the whole biodynamic school. Typical of their thinking is this gnarly excerpt: > In an earlier view of nature, based partly on old mystery-tradition and partly on instinctive clairvoyance -- a view originating in the times of Aristotle and his pupil Theophrastus, and continuing on to the days of Albertus Magnus and the late mediaeval "doctrine of signatures" -- it was recognised that relationships exist between certain *cosmic constellations* and the various plant species. These constellations are creative moments under whose influence species became differentiated and the various plant forms came into being. > When one realises that cosmic rhythms have such a significant influence on the physiology of metabolism, of glandular functions, of the rise and fall of sap and of sap pressure (turgor), only a small step remains to be taken by conscious future research to the next realisation, which will achieve an experimental grasp of these *creative constellations*. Many of Rudolf Steiner's collaborators have already demonstrated the decisive effects of formative forces in such experiments as, the capillary tests an filter paper of L. Kolisko and the plant and crystallisation tests of Pfeiffer, KrĂĽger, Bessenich, Selawry and others. > In indications given in the Agriculture Course, Rudolf Steiner showed that health and resistance are functions of biological balance, coupled with *cosmic factors*. This is further evidence of how far in advance of its time was this spiritual-scientific, Goethean way of thought. < ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 17:38:45 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10801031907l563834e1q4c3e37f3ff8294ca@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Juanse asked: what did you use (for nosema)? Nothing. I didn't know that I had it until late. Then I tried thymolated syrup--didn't work. I'm now testing several fumagillin application methods, as well as stronger thymol, HoneyBHealthy, and your very own bleach in syrup. I have been slow in updating my website re nosema. In short, there are herbal products in Europe, but the only thing in the US that is currently guranteed to work is fumagillin. Bob, thank you for your confirmation of my observations! There is a huge colony-to-colony variation. Some are busting strong, while the one next to it crashes. I, too strongly suspect virus issues. The reason that I feel that mites are involved (even at low levels) is that additional mite treatments appeared to prevent the crashes. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:48:24 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Study: Honey is a 'Living' Food In-Reply-To: <20080106.113653.27817.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline waldemar asks_ > If anyone is familiar with this energy and how it can be measured, please > reply (here or in private) This is the place to start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Plants > > > -- > Juanse Barros J. > APIZUR S.A. > Carrera 695 > Gorbea - CHILE > +56-45-271693 > 08-3613310 > http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ > juanseapi@gmail.com > ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 01:06:17 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Virus and Bleach, am I dreaming? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Randy I do not know how to identify viruses, so you will have to try bleach with them ;) No seriously now, Where should I stard my reading to learn about bee viruses? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:56:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080105195051.04143530@together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Hi Michael! > >And what about virus resistance. Are these dead colonies just more > susceptable? > I went through another yard today. Mostly busting strong colonies, thriving under same conditions as lower survival yards. In the last two yards I had strong colonies next to deadouts. All had looked similarly strong a few weeks ago, and had similarly low mite levels. In answer to your question, yes, I'm guessing that some are more resistant to one or more viruses. Dr. Ilan Sela's work supports this. I expect to have my bees sampled for viruses soon. One of my farmers commented (when I was dropping off yard rent) that he noticed that I had far more dead bees in front of the colonies this year. I've been noticing this, and was surprised that it was obvious enough for him to see. Something has been really different in my operation for the past three years. Far more dead bees in the yard, more unexplained deadouts, and lots of strange diseases in the brood. And I'm not using any harmful chemicals or stressing the bees in any new way. As Bob has commented, things are changing in the arena of bee health. Nosema ceranae is part of it, but doesn't appear to be the only thing. I'm eager to see Jerry B get the IVDS machine, and really start investigating viruses. I'm wondering if IAPV is just one of several new ones. Randy Oliver--survived the storm in the Sierra this week, power finally back on. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: biodynamic agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here’s my take on the whole Steiner Anthroposophy Biodynamic agricultural deal. Steiner was interested in many things but the one thing he was interested in over all other things was the spiritual evolution of human beings. All the so called spiritual scientific stuff was a product of the search for and the work towards this one end, which was to realize, as much as possible, the next stage in mankind’s spiritual evolution. There are many avenues and levels of approach to the work which Steiner considered of vital importance to the future of mankind. Something like biodynamic farming may come with what many would consider kooky, other worldly claims that are completely beyond the reach of normal scientific thinking, but as I understand it, the point would be to take as much of it as you could assimilate on an intellectual level and work with it without prejudgment and in doing so gain a deeper intuitive level of understanding of the relationships of earthly, spiritual and yes cosmic things. Steiner called for not so much belief as a suspension of disbelief regarding the things he espoused. It wasn’t so important to him whether or not you believed it as it was that you approached it as though you did not disbelieve it. Only then would you be able to gain your own direct experience of a spiritual or as some would say a super intuitive nature. You certainly can not take any of what he said out of context and hope to gain anything from it. It really has to be taken as a whole and that is asking a lot as anyone who has scratched the surface of Steiner would attest. There are a lot of people who find the exercise worth while, though. I am not a practitioner of Anthroposophy and I know almost nothing about dynamic farming, but from what I’ve seen of it through our kids having gone to a Waldorf school, it is certainly nothing to be afraid or even wary of. I see it as a normal healthy search on some people’s part for deeper meaning in life and the every day activities of life, like farming and beekeeping. At the most basic level it’s just another way of looking at things, and for some it has value. Personally I do not like to go too far beyond just what works and what doesn’t work. I’ve noticed, though, that what works for some doesn’t seem to work for others, and I find that really interesting. Steve Noble ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 04:19:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey Improves Carotene Retention in Fortified Milk Product MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey Improves Carotene Retention in Fortified Milk Product Effect of Beet and Honey on Quality Improvement and Carotene Retention in a Carrot Fortified Milk Product Innovative Food Science & Emerging Technologies, Volume 9, Issue 1, January 2008, Pages 9-17 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/honey-improves-carotene-retention-in.html Abstract: The effect of beet and honey on quality attributes and carotene retention of carrot fortified milk product during storage at 30 °C were studied... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:25:10 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>The reason that I feel that mites are involved (even at low levels) is that additional mite treatments appeared to prevent the crashes. In a similar vein, there is an interesting article in the November 07 issue of the ABJ about the DWV, bees, and mites. It appears, the crippled wings happen in bees that have the virus in the heads (as well as the thorax and abdomen). If the virus is only present in the thorax and abdomen, the wings develop fine. The virus is present in the mites - too bad it does not cripple the mites as it does the bees... Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:12:03 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Young Subject: Fermented Fruit Causing CCD ??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed On 5 January 2008, a fellow beekeeper experienced classic CCD symptoms in one his hives near Hartshorne, Oklahoma. The hive was light on stores but did have some open nectar and capped honey. In November 2007, the hive had two deep hivebodies filled with bees; but, on 5 January 2008, the hive had a handful bees with a queen, a small dead patch of capped brood and frames of nectar and capped honey. However, hundreds of the disappearing bees were found nearby crawling on the ground unable to fly appearing as though they were in a drunken stupor after feeding on fermented persimmon fruit littering the area. Also, bees were observed actively feeding on the fermented persimmon fruit. The temperature range on Saturday and Sunday, 5 and 6 January, was about 58 F. low and 75 F. high, for both days. Common persimmon, Diospyros virginiana L., is wide spread throughout the US. I've personally observed persimmon thickets in excess of five acres in Oklahoma; and, I suspect other States also have large groves of persimmon trees. http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=DIVI5 When weather conditions are favorable for fermenting unharvested overripe fruit, could bees feeding on such fermented fruit, particularly persimmons, be the culprit causing CCD and other so called dwindling disease episodes? Also, could fruit processing plants or orchard operations within flight range of apiary holding yards play a role in causing CCD by discarding fruit which is fermented or later becomes fermented? Jim Young, Retired Entomologist ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:45:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update In-Reply-To: <20080107.042510.20230.0@webmail03.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, Leaving before long to an area without internet access so may be awhile before I am on BEE-L again. At a recent meeting a speaker/researcher made the statement he was looking for another subject to research as we know about all there is to know about varroa and varroa control. He has long been the speaker which has laid down a specific number of varroa count before you need to treat and more important a number when you do not need to treat. The top figure is fine . its the bottom number I have a problem with and the diferences between hives such as number of bees, amount of brood and a few other factors. I realize his comments are meant for the small beekeeper to give the beekeeper a starting point but varroa continues to baffle researchers the world over. As our top controls stop working varroa control has become very complicated. The commercial veiw point. Commercial beekeepers are not researchers (although a few run experiments and testing on a par with or above some research) and are not trying to find a varroa tolerant bee ( although some are but usually not through instrumental insemination close monitoring). Their methods are simple. They know they have got varroa. They know they have to treat most if not all hives. They have been advised by the USDA-ARS that when they decide to treat a yard they need (for best results) to treat all hives in the yard. So they treat and keep waiting for the truely varroa tolerant bee. Installing a bee which may or may not need treating is a smart move (Randy Oliver) but still the large commercial beekeeper can not simply stop all varroa treatments and hope for the best. Or do (or pay the labor) the individual testing and treating involved with control on a small scale. First the individual testing and only treating those hives above a certain varroa level has never been recommended for large scale beekeeping. So commercial beekeepers wait for the day the industry comes up with a bee which will survive varroa for a given period of time without treatment. Many will disagree with our methods but we are in the business of pollination and producing honey. Not in the business of finding a varroa tolerant bee ( although a few are)but doing the nations pollination and surving tough times. Despite the full page adds saying some queen breeders have used no varroa control in years our testing has shown their queens will not tolerate varroa untreated any longer than many others. Purvis has a plan which will work but takes awhile to put in place and is not cheap. Kill off the weak and susceptible and breed from survivors. Dann and I have had our discussions over the method but he seems to be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel (after at least 10 years of culling and frankly a huge amount of money and time invested). We need others willing to search/test for varroa and disease tolerant bees besides Marla, Sue , Dann,/Randy and a few others but the process takes time. I commend their efforts! bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 08:46:47 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update In-Reply-To: <49599.24.178.124.154.1199717111.squirrel@mail.discoverynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Bob said> the large commercial beekeeper can not simply... pay the labor) > the individual testing and treating involved with control on a small scale. Right you are, Bob. I am a very small commercial beekeeper. I tried the above this year--testing every single colony, and treating individually as I thought was appropriate. While my eventual losses weren't extraordinary, they were higher than my checkbook would have preferred. I'm having to give up one pollination contract, and that hurts. Next year, I will continue with breeding and minimal treatments, but will treat all. Experimentation by someone who makes their living by having live colonies is very risky, and can be expensive. Right now I'm in a quandry as to whether I should move a nosema test group of 64 colonies to almonds. Most are weak, but the strong ones would be worth over a thousand dollars. However, if I move any, I must move all to avoid adding a variable to the experiment. I don't have funding for the lost income--may just take it in the shorts. Sound knowledge can be expensive to come by, and I appreciate all those that share what they've learned with others. Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:39:43 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Virus and Bleach, am I dreaming? In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10801062006k75236f58sfcdc75c39855831@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Juanse asked>Where should I stard my reading to learn about bee viruses? Hi Juanse, The research on viruses is heavy reading--I needed to keep pulling out the dictionary. Start with this thesis: library.wur.nl/wda/dissertations/dis3932.pdf Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:11:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Mares Subject: Liability insurance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Our bee club has hives and gives classes on the grounds of a non-profit organization in our city. Does anyone out there have experience with liability insurance to cover such activities in such a venue? -- Bill Mares Mares Apiaries 429 S. Willard St. Burlington, VT 05401 802-863-4938 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:03:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe bossom Subject: liability insurance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable re liability insurance: some farm policies carry it as an extra some do = not. A farm insurance company in Connecticut (name lost) approached me = primarily on the basis of liability for bee activities. You have to = have farm insurance with the apiary included. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:58:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Liability insurance In-Reply-To: <3718d5960801071111s5f524699id5735a204a67fe84@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Often the place you hold the meetings, such as a school, covers you. Obviously check with them. For a couple of years our State organization carried blanket insurance, but that was dropped since it was not as broad as we thought. Best place to hold such meeting is at a branch of the State Extension Agent since they are interested in all ag aspects and the State covers you. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:20:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Liability insurance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable EAS (The Eastern Apicultural Society of North America, Inc.) offers = liability insurance as a member benefit. See page 13 of the 2007 Winter = Journal at = http://www.easternapiculture.org/programs/journal/Winter2007.pdf =20 Aaron Morris, NYS EAS Director ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************