From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:03:36 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD46482B1 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YWH017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:34 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0801B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 68664 Lines: 1514 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:40:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Lord Subject: producing sourwood honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am about to move a few hives to a place I recently purchased in the = North Carolina mountains. My goal is to produce sourwood honey (when = possible) for friends and neighbors. The elevation is about 4,000 feet = and cold so I am concerned about adequate winter stores. I run my hives = in the piedmont of N.C. in a hive body and a six and five eights super, = to facilate moving, but also because I find that with our short honey = flows a lot ends up in the upper deep super when running two deeps. I = am also going to place these hives on a relatively flat barn roof to = avoid bears so weight is an issue. Does anyone have advice on hive = configuration and management for sourwood? =20 For those of you not familiar with sourwood it is an ericaceous tree = that blooms in mid summer, sometimes sold as lily of the valley tree = because the flowers look like lily of the valley. It produces a light, = highly sought-after honey. In sandy coastal plain soils it will produce = a bit of blue honey (other ericaceous plants will do the same). There = always seems to be a lot of suspect sourwood honey for sale in the = southeast mountains. Sourwood is sort of like our politicians: many = are called, but few are chosen. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:36:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey May Improve Insulin Sensitivity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey May Improve Insulin Sensitivity United Press International, 1/8/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/honey-may-improve-insulin-sensitivity.html SACRAMENTO, Jan. 8 (UPI) -- Findings at the International Symposium on Honey and Human Health in Sacramento, Calif., suggest honey may help against diabetes, obesity and hypertension... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:03:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Multiple queen colonies? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline And now, something completely different: In China, beekeepers found a way to prevent queens from killing one another by ablating their mandibles. By forcing several queens to cohabit, they create more productive colonies for commercial exploitation. In order to understand how manipulating the fighting ability of queens affects the social structure of honeybee colonies, we studied the effects of mandibular ablation on the strategic decisions of opponents during the fights. Ablated queens in our experiment or weak queens in nature could refrain from fighting since self-assessment could show them they have low probability of winning. It is likely that weak queens were selected to avoid fights since probability of dying is high when their ability to hold onto their opponent and sting (i.e. to attack and kill an opponent) is reduced. Indeed, for a weak queen that does not have information about its opponent's fighting ability, the best strategy for a higher chance of surviving is not to initiate a contest. FROM "Self Assessment in Insects: Honeybee Queens Know Their Own Strength" by Vincent Dietemann, et al http://tinyurl.com/32t38m ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:50:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey Helps Promote Restorative Sleep MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey Helps Promote Restorative Sleep Presentations at the First International Symposium on Honey and Human Health January 8th, 2008, Sacramento, California Sponsored by the Committee for the Promotion of Honey and Health, Inc The Uniqueness of Honey - - its impact on Human Metabolism and its role in Restorative Sleep By Mike McInnis, MRPS http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/honeys-helps-promote-restorative-sleep.html A model for reducing what Mr. McInnes calls the modern metabolic syndrome (chronic stress/impaired glucose disposal/impaired fat disposal) by the consumption of honey forms the basis for this presentation. Mr. McInnes introduced the dominant role of glucose metabolism in the human and establish the reverse glucose-fatty acid cycle and metabolism, then established the role of chronic cortisol driven stress in inhibiting glucose metabolism, which then inhibits fat metabolism, a critical and largely overlooked factor in the metabolic syndrome. This presentation showed how honey improves, facilitates, (lengthens) restorative sleep by at least 3 mechanisms... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:30:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: nutrition & wintering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I trap pollen at a home yard with 24 hives. In 2006 we had a monster season for honey production and the hives with pollen traps wintered well, in fact better then most yards and my experience has been that pollen trapping does not harm the bees wintering success In 2007 we had bad drought into the end of July then non-stop rain for the next month. Honey production was average to poor in late season here in MN. The pollen trap yard at home had nice populations but no brood in sept. As of yesterday, it looks like a 60% loss in the pollen yard hives Five miles away I have a yard of 18 hives of the same bees *russian hybrid" and I found 2 dead out of 18. These hives had no brood too in Sept but we never trapped any pollen I should mention that both yards all had new queens in May of 2007 on clean equipment. They were part of an effort to clean out italian and carniolan bees and replace with russian stock. So they were sister yards except for the pollen trapping. We wrapped in late November and a few days later we had the start of an early cold winter that has given way to a mild winter in late December and early Jan Seems like the pollen trapping may have led to their demise as we have a multi year history of good wintering in these 2 yards. With the discussion of nutrition lately the pollen trapping and weather in August makes me wonder what role that played. Hard to explain the losses otherwise. Other thoughts? ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:41:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kevin Roberts Subject: Re: Multiple queen colonies? In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit peterlborst wrote: > By forcing several queens to cohabit, they create more productive colonies for commercial exploitation. Sorry Peter, out here in the sticks my old machine can't open your link. Not your fault. I've occasionally seen colonies with two laying queens, presumeably mother/daughter. After a while, one isn't there anymore. Somebody told me once his wish list included queens that tolerated each other--re-queening would mean just running a new one into the entrance. Lots of people do that now, but sometimes it doesn't work. To what extent is tolerance of multiple queens a function of the queen, versus a function of her daughter workers? Was this an arena experiment, or did it take place in the presence of workers related to both queens? Kevin _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:48:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: The importance of Fall pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian wrote about the importance of fall pollen for wintering bees. My experience with pure Russian bees has been that good fall pollen = results in large winter clusters. I never seem to suffer winter loss = here in the North Georgia mountains even though the bees are broodless = from early November until February. Good fall pollen yields such as last = fall, however, result in large winter clusters. Many are wintering this = year on 6-8 frames, checked on a cold day. In a couple of months they = will fill all frames with brood and bees. Fall pollen is the key to = large winter clusters in pure Russian bees. Maybe pollen paddies should = be used in the fall when there is a poor fall pollen yield. Looks like = I will be busy making splits and selling nucs in April. Carl Webb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:13:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance- "Show Me!" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: > Are you saying if we take some of your genetics and raise queens all our > varroa problems will go away? We can start introducing into the wild?The > varroa tolerant will remain even if open mating is allowed? > > I would be willing to test some queens. However I have not got the 4-5 > years to wait so would use added varroa presure (similar to Purvis > Brothers method) to test. > Bob, I have a proposition for you...I think you are from Missouri, so this should be right up your alley. If I could get about 10 queens together and send them to you in the June-July would you be willing to go along w/the following? 1) You do not have to pay me any for the queens at all-period. However if after a year+, you are pleased with what you see,and you feel that they show substantial varroa resistance, I wouldnt refuse a check for $100.( I normally sell them for more than that but this informal study would be helpful in assesing where I am) 2)I would ask you not to treat for varroa in any of these for a year+. I would also ask for a genuine attempt at measuring the honey production vs surrounding hives be made. 3) It would also be nice if done in conjunction with rqueening at least some of the surrounding hives with other stock. I would appreciate your response...let me reiterate...I make no demands if I send you these queens. I would like to see what would happen. It would help me in assessing the resistance of these queens under your conditions. Allow me to reiterate: I dont claim varroa free or even no varroa damage. What I have observrd in my hives (and I have at least 100 of my hives 4 years + w/o treatment and all my hives are doing well as a whole) is that my honey production seems to compare well with those whose hives were treated annually. I also do not treat my hives on a preventative basis w/antibiotics, but only upon discovery of brood diseases. If you wanted to really put them through the paces you could follow this pattern. Tell me what you think. John Horton ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:36:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Study where honey did not work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There has been quite a bit on honey as a dressing. Here is a study where it did not work. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/w-tvl010808.php excerpt- Treating venous leg ulcers with honey dressings unlikely to help healing When compared with normal care, treating a leg ulcer with dressings impregnated with honey did not significantly improve the rate of healing, but did lead to a significantly increased number of reported adverse events, according to research published today in the British Journal of Surgery. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:55:00 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance- "Show Me!" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John, >>I have at least 100 of my hives 4 years + w/o treatment and all my hives are doing well as a whole) is that my honey production seems to compare well with those whose hives were treated annually. This is very positive. How do you run your hives (size of broodnest, with or w/o excluders) and what is your honey yield per hive? Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:23:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance- "Show Me!" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar, I dont use excluders as a rule, I run a deep + shallow overwinter. I find my crops thus far at about the average of my neighbors per year ~ 50- 80 # per hive annually. I have a total of about 300 hives. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "waldig@netzero.com" To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance- "Show Me!" > John, > >>>I have at least 100 of my hives 4 years + w/o treatment and all my hives >>>are doing well as a whole) is that my honey production seems to compare >>>well with those whose hives were treated annually. > > This is very positive. How do you run your hives (size of broodnest, with > or w/o excluders) and what is your honey yield per hive? > > Waldemar > > ****************************************************** > * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * > * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * > ****************************************************** ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:35:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance- "Show Me!" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whoops..thought i waas replying directly to Waldemar Waldemar wrote: >I have at least 100 of my hives 4 years + w/o treatment and all my hives are doing well as a whole) is that my honey production seems to compare well with those whose hives were treated annually. This is very positive. How do you run your hives (size of broodnest, with or w/o excluders) and what is your honey yield per hive? I was one of those featured in the last Bee Journal study of VSH vs Russuan vs Italian. Drs Danka & Ward.... that study described bees in our area fairly well wrt honey productiion....... I dont use excluders as a rule, I run a deep + shallow overwinter. I find my crops thus far at about the average of my neighbors per year ~ 50- 80 # per hive annually. I have a total of about 300 hives. John Horton ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 05:03:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: 'Apimedica and Apiquality 2008' to be Held June 9-12 in Rome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII 'Apimedica and Apiquality 2008' to be Held June 9-12 in Rome http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/apimedica-and-apiquality-2008-to-be.html Apimondia, the Italian Beekeepers' Federation and the Honey Research Centre of theUniversity of Rome "Tor Vergata" are pleased to invite you to the 2nd International Forum on Apitherapy "APIMEDICA and APIQUALITY 2008" in Villa Mondragone Congress Centre, Rome, Italy, from 9 to 12 June 2008. The Forum aims at highlighting the health benefits of bee products by demonstrating their properties, the minimum number of bioactive compounds having a pharmacological activity, the reproducibility of their effect in the various diseases and the mechanism of action at biological level... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:27:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Nosema and deadout update-Varroa Resistance- "Show Me!" In-Reply-To: <003001c853a3$c5996c00$78e84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If I could get about 10 queens together and send them to you in the > June-July would you be willing to go along w/the following? John, I will test your queens. Thanks for the chance to test. I will pay for the queens and shipping. I am at a rest area on I 95 with a wireless hook up so hope emails sends. Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:31:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Study where honey did not work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A couple of years ago while having a physical, I mentioned hearing from beekeepers about honey and wound dressings to my doctor. He smiled and said something like well beekeeper’s have an axe to grind. Then he said just using plain saturated sugar syrup will pretty much do the same thing. Regards, Dick Allen ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:44:38 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Six months to Gormanston MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Time flies... there is only a few days over six months until we all meet up at the best beekeeping event on the planet (allegedly) :-) Sue Cobey is our main lecturer this year and her lectures along with all of the many other lectures and workshops, are listed on the page... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormprog2008.html General details about the course and the very meagre charges for the whole weeks bed, food and lectures are available on... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormflier2008.html Booking can be done by printing the page... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gormreservation2008.html But then you will need to send it along with your deposit or full fee, by mail, but this is a small inconvenience for the opportunity to meet about 300 other beekeepers, bee breeders, researchers and academics and sample some real Irish Guinness. It is a very intensive program and it is suitable for any beekeeper or wannabe beekeeper of any age, apart from all the learning you will do, it is one hell of a lot of fun. I look forward to meeting some of you there! Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:04:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Law Subject: Re: Study where honey did not work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline While getting ready for Y2K (in case my ex-boss & the other IT bosses of the world dropped the ball) I read a book on bush medicine that described how one guard in ?Uganda? shot a hole through his foot with a shotgun. It healed up completely using a packing of sugar paste and Betadyne. When I searched the web to find where I could buy it in the U.S. I read that the FDA would not allow it to be sold because it was an "adulterated food substance". Sigh. -- Dennis Law ( aka Paul D. Law ) Brooklyn South Community Emergency Response Team Logistics Section On Jan 11, 2008 12:31 PM, Dick Allen wrote: > A couple of years ago while having a physical, I mentioned hearing from > beekeepers about honey > and wound dressings to my doctor. He smiled and said something like well > beekeeper's have an > axe to grind. Then he said just using plain saturated sugar syrup will > pretty much do the same > thing. > > Regards, > Dick Allen > > ****************************************************** > * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * > * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * > ****************************************************** > ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:19:24 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jeanne Price Subject: Internet Honey Scam Comments: cc: Flottom Kim Has anyone received an email claiming to have purchased contaminated honey with your label? I received a disturbing email last week from a person in New York. I know at least one other "beekeeper who received an identical email. Here it is: "To whom this may concern, I recently purchased your mountain wildflowers honey in 32oz. When I opened it, I noticed little pieces of green substances floating on the top of the honey. This has never happened to me before. I was disgusted and upset because I always purchase your products, and have recommended them to others. I immediately threw the honey out because I was not about to indulge in this honey. Please send me a replacement of this. I would greatly appreciate it and continue to purchase your honey. Thank you for your time. Yours truly, When I emailed her and asked where she bought the honey, I became suspicious because while she claimed "I always buy your honey and have recommended it to others" said she bought it while vacationing in North Carolina. But it was a small dollar amount so I shipped a container of honey. After sending a couple of emails, I learned that at least one other beekeeper got the same email. I'm sure there are more. And it may be that this person is sending it to other commodities as well. Virginia Webb did a search on the name and address; it shows it is a 21 year old person, the address is in Nassau County, NY, on Long Island and at a single residence, not an apartment, no phone or other information was available. Did any of you get this email? Any suggestions to handling it? -- Jeanne Price 182 Elizabeth Ave Forest City, NC 28043 828-247-1640 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:20:24 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Preston Adams Subject: Re: Internet Honey Scam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanne Price" To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: [BEE-L] Internet Honey Scam > Has anyone received an email claiming to have purchased contaminated honey > with your label? I received a disturbing email last week from a person in > New York. I know at least one other "beekeeper who received an identical > email. Here it is: > > "To whom this may concern, > I recently purchased your mountain wildflowers honey in 32oz. When I > opened it, I noticed little pieces of green substances floating on the top > of the honey. This has never happened to me before. I was disgusted and > upset because I always purchase your products, and have recommended them > to others. I immediately threw the honey out because I was not about to > indulge in this honey. Please send me a replacement of this. I would > greatly appreciate it and continue to purchase your honey. Thank you for > your time. > Yours truly, > > When I emailed her and asked where she bought the honey, I became > suspicious because while she claimed "I always buy your honey and have > recommended it to others" said she bought it while vacationing in North > Carolina. But it was a small dollar amount so I shipped a container of > honey. > > After sending a couple of emails, I learned that at least one other > beekeeper got the same email. I'm sure there are more. And it may be that > this person is sending it to other commodities as well. > > Virginia Webb did a search on the name and address; it shows it is a 21 > year old person, the > address is in Nassau County, NY, on Long Island and at a single residence, > not > an apartment, no phone or other information was available. > > Did any of you get this email? Any suggestions to handling it? > > > -- > Jeanne Price > 182 Elizabeth Ave > Forest City, NC 28043 > 828-247-1640 > Quite frankly if she threw it away, instead of keeping it as proof - > Hercule Poirot would say that the lady is not telling the truth. (in any > case its not a woman, but a man) Take care Preston > ****************************************************** > * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * > * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * > ****************************************************** ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:24:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Future Directions for Honey Research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Future Directions for Honey Research By Ronald Fessenden, MD, MPH Presented at the 1st International Symposium on Honey and Human Health, January 8, 2008, in Sacramento, Calif. http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/future-directions-for-honey-research.html Most Promising Categories of Research: • Restorative Sleep • Memory & Off-line Processing • Insulin Resistance & Blood Sugar Control • Immune System Enhancement • Anti-microbial Effects... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:46:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Antihistamines Increase Repeated Reactions to Bee Venom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Antihistamines Increase Repeated Reactions to Bee Venom Do Antihistamines Make Allergies Worse? Medicated mice react more to bee stings than non-medicated mates Matt Kaplan, Nature News, 1/11/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/antihistamines-increase-repeated.html Taking antihistamines can be a great way to fight off an allergic attack. But new research suggests it also might also make the next attack come on stronger... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:11:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Jeff_Jamrosz?= Subject: Re: Study where honey did not work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit While I believe the "ax" that beekeepers grind is about the antibotic properties of honey, there is large following in the medical field that understands that any 'sugars' added to wounds improves healing times. Surface sugars provide healing cells with disposable sugar energy. Otherwise these sugars would have to be pulled through digestive system and transported through the blood. The immediate osmosis of sugar to the cells expidites the healing process. The cited study may not have found honey to be effective because of the way venous ulcers heal. They may not contain the same cellular structures that surface skin wounds like burns and cuts have that can adequately absorb surface sugars. This study should not, and probably will not discount any previous studies demonstrating the benfits of sugars applied to wounds. (I may be a little bias, I lost the top 1/4 inch off my thumb to my table saw, which healed miraculously back to normal. I attribute that to regular clean bandages with a liberal dose of honey.) -Jeff ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:36:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Law Subject: Re: Study where honey did not work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline My understanding from the info I read on the sugar + Betadyne paste is that the sugar is so "dry" that it sucks the water out of the bacteria cells so quickly that they explode from osmotic pressure. -- Dennis Law ( aka Paul D. Law ) Brooklyn South Community Emergency Response Team Logistics Section On Jan 12, 2008 10:11 AM, Jeff Jamrosz wrote: > While I believe the "ax" that beekeepers grind is about the antibotic > properties of honey, there is large following in the medical field that > understands that any 'sugars' added to wounds improves healing times. > > Surface sugars provide healing cells with disposable sugar energy. > Otherwise these sugars would have to be pulled through digestive system > and > transported through the blood. The immediate osmosis of sugar to the > cells > expidites the healing process. > > The cited study may not have found honey to be effective because of the > way > venous ulcers heal. They may not contain the same cellular structures that > surface skin wounds like burns and cuts have that can adequately absorb > surface sugars. > > This study should not, and probably will not discount any previous studies > demonstrating the benfits of sugars applied to wounds. > > (I may be a little bias, I lost the top 1/4 inch off my thumb to my table > saw, which healed miraculously back to normal. I attribute that to > regular > clean bandages with a liberal dose of honey.) > > -Jeff > > ****************************************************** > * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * > * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * > ****************************************************** > ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:06:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: excessive quotes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What's up with the recent messages that quote an entire previous message and then add a couple of lines of comment? Is it truly that difficult for you guys who are posting to edit out most of the previous message and just quote a few pertinent words you feel might be necessary? Regards, Dick Allen ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:24:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: excessive quotes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Dick! =20 I'm currently at the National Bee Conference in Sacramento and turned = moderation off while away. =20 The National Bee Conference has been phenomenal! Hopefully I'll find = time to write next week when I get home. =20 In the meantime,* Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at:=20 * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm=20 =20 Aaron Morris - thinking moderation is a good thing, but a chore! ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:27:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Edwards Subject: Re: excessive quotes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_2238_23888989.1200191247125" ------=_Part_2238_23888989.1200191247125 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Say hello to any "scientists" from the Tucson beelab for me! (And ask them if they are doing any research yet.....) - John Edwards On Sat Jan 12 15:24:48 CST 2008, Aaron Morris wrote: > I'm currently at the National Bee Conference in Sacramento and > turned moderation off while away. > ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ------=_Part_2238_23888989.1200191247125-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:54:51 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bman140 Subject: Re: Internet Honey Scam In-Reply-To: <011120081819.2945.4787B32C0001775300000B8122230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF970B0E040A0A0D0E020704019D0E0C@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My first question is 'Do you put your email on your product container?' I would have requested a return of the container to show that it did come from me. If I'm having a problem of such, I want to be able to find the source. True, it is a small figure, but a lot of these small figures add pretty quick. Ed --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 05:11:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Study where honey did not work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/01/2008 15:22:53 GMT Standard Time, jeffjamrosz@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes: may be a little bias, I lost the top 1/4 inch off my thumb to my table saw, which healed miraculously back to normal. I attribute that to regular clean bandages with a liberal dose of honey.) I lost half an inch for the same reason! It hasn't grown back. The medics didn't use honey. Chris ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 06:09:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Study: Propolis Helps Prevent DNA Radiation Damage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Study: Propolis Helps Prevent DNA Radiation Damage Evaluation of the Radioprotective Effects of Propolis and Flavonoids in Gamma-Irradiated Mice Biological & Pharmaceutical Bulletin, 31(1) 167-172 (2008) http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/study-propolis-helps-prevent-dna.html The radioprotective effects of water-soluble derivate of propolis (WSDP) collected in Croatia, and single flavonoids, caffeic acid, chrysin and naringin in the whole-body irradiated CBA mice were investigated... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:22:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Internet Honey Scam In-Reply-To: <474554.77653.qm@web57703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've not had this specific scam attempted on me, and yes, I put my e-mail address on the label, but I have found interesting e-bay related e-mails when I've included my e-mail address in items I've listed for auction. The lesson I learned the hard way, once, is that only legitimate e-mails about products on e-bay come through your e-bay page/account. I don't answer any e-bay related information, or requests for information (phishing) when they only show up in my e-mail account, but merely send them along to spoof@ebay.com and let e-bay sort it out. As for this scam, I would tell them I would GLADLY replace the product provided they return it at their expense. I'll bet it's the last I hear from them. Grant Jackson, MO --Just back from Sacramento, what a blast!!!! --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:20:55 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: biodynamic agriculture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This may be more than most would want to read on this subject. Sorry, but someone has to say it "in public". I just ran into a beekeeper today who asked about the whole issue of "BioDynamic Beekeeping", as defined by Gunter Hawk up at the Pfeiffer Center in upstate NY. While I know that Charlie's heart is in the right place, and he only wants to promote his "apitherapy" blog, there's a line that divides "interesting" from "highly questionable" and given all the legitimate work that is being done with honey and apitherapy these days, the last thing we need is the mythology of Steiner, Pfeiffer, Anthroposophy, and the so-called "biodynamic" approach to anything tainting the already somewhat fringe reputation of "apitheraphy". Of course, he may not even realize that he has posted anything to do with Steiner, et al in his blog, or here. > Steiner was interested in many things... Rather than any research or study/investigation into subjects of interest, the entire basis for Steiner's "Anthroposophy" was his self-proclaimed clairvoyance. Apparently, he honestly believed he had this ability, as there is no evidence that he attempted to defraud anyone of any large sums of money. (Of course, if he actually was clairvoyant, why didn't he clean up every day at the horse track and/or the roulette wheel?) But there's something poignant about long-discredited mystical belief systems forlornly wandering the internet like unemployed magicians begging for someone, anyone to "pick a card, any card". Steiner, Pfeiffer, Anthroposophy, and the so-called "biodynamic" principles are unique in that they attempt to directly address gardening/farming and even beekeeping with a mix of occult beliefs, rather than practical or scientific knowledge. Its doubly pitiful that Steiner would doom his cult to trying to recruit from the ranks of beekeepers, a demographic not known for either their large numbers or thick wallets. > I see it as a normal healthy search on some people's part > for deeper meaning in life I see it as a symptom of depression - a longing for a world that is very different from the way it actually happens to be. That's a shame, 'cause the world is a very interesting and entertaining place just the way it is. So, rather than eating prudently and exercising, we can just wear magnetic bracelets to stay healthy. Rather than checking our hives and monitoring diseases and pests, we can believe that some sort of practice or another, SIMPLY BECAUSE it is "rejected by science" will keep them healthy. Rather than testing the soil in our gardens and balancing the nutrients, pH, and moisture for the plants we want to grown, we can practice "biodynamic" principles, and dilute our fertilizer to the point that it should be called "homeopathic fertilizer". Of course, none of this stuff works, but that's OK - there's always another charlatan out there with snake oil of a slightly different type to offer the promise of magic beans yet again when you inevitably fail. But how do otherwise reasonable people "buy" such stuff? There is a growing fraction of the US population, beekeepers included, who seem to want to wear their ignorance as some sort of a badge of distinction. According to a Nov 2007 Harris Poll, a majority of the US population believe in miracles (79%), angels (74%), and even the devil (62%). Smaller, but substantial percentages believe in ghosts (41%), UFOs (35%), witches (31%), astrology (29%), and reincarnation (21%). These folks will seemingly believe anything, even Steiner's book "Bees", in which he claimed that bees have harnessed "the power of the crystal" because they build hexagonal comb. Its magical thinking. It is the exact opposite of rationality, reason, and what we call "knowledge". In another online beekeeping discussion group, there is an actual discussion going on entitled "Discounting scientific studies", where the entire process of science itself has been rejected by a small number of beekeepers simply because certain controlled studies do not support the "personal experience" of uneducated/uncredentialed, but very prolific contributors to online forums. How does one even begin to comprehend such willful ignorance? > At the most basic level it's just another way of looking at things, "Another way" is the relativistic argument, ignoring the issue of objective proof, treating everything as a "viewpoint" of equal value, giving no weight to tangible evidence. > Personally I do not like to go too far beyond just what works and what > doesn't work. Knowing "what works" is exactly the end result of using science to test things and reject mystical belief systems like the mix of very mangled Buddhist and Hindu dogma called Anthroposophy, and the associated "biodynamic agriculture". (And no, you can't accept one while rejecting the other, as the two are BOTH nothing but a rejection of rationality.) > I've noticed, though, that what works for some doesn't seem to work > for others, and I find that really interesting. Beekeeping is like baton twirling, turning handsprings, eating with chopsticks, and nearly all skateboard tricks. All of them look fairly easy until you try it yourself. When something is claimed to work for one person, but found to not work for another, this is exactly where science rules while mysticism drools. Science is exactly how one finds truth among conflicting claims and inconsistent results. Anything else is nothing but personal anecdote, and the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". A recent post to this group was not just mysticism, but the exact same mysticism that I find so annoying: >> Study: Honey is a 'Living' Food, Refined Sugar is Biologically 'Dead' >> Analysis of Honey Quality Through 'Sensitive Crystallization' For future reference, when even the authors themselves put the name of their methodology in quotes, this is a big clue that one is dealing with quackery and pseudo-science. Pfeiffer created "Sensitive Crystallization" as a tool for use by clairvoyants, rather than scientists, farmers, or beekeepers. The description of "Sensitive Crystallization" given in the page linked to by the announcement of the "study": http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~kroegerj/crystalse.html reveals that it is a blatantly and unrepentantly unscientific technique, providing results that cannot be quantified. The "interpretation" of the patterns created by the crystallization of Copper chloride solutions can only be compared to the process of reading tea leaves. The exact same process was claimed by Pfeiffer to variously identify healthy blood from the blood of tuberculosis patients, to differ between "biodynamically" raised food and conventionally-raised food, and to even detect cancer via examination of the blood of patients. This sort of stuff is so surreal, so completely outside the bounds of plausibility, it is almost a litmus test for not just critical thinking skills, but the ability to think at all. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:44:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Molan: Honey Gave Better Results Than Standard Leg Ulcer Treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Molan: Honey Gave Better Results Than Standard Leg Ulcer Treatment Clarification of Statements Made About Results of the HALT Trial http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/molan-honey-gave-better-results-than.html 13 January 2008 - Statements that have been made about the results of the HALT trial on honey carried out on honey dressings on venous leg ulcers (e.g. "Treating venous leg ulcers with honey dressings unlikely to help healing") give the impression that the results were negative. The reality is that the results were inconclusive, not negative. Honey gave better results than the standard treatment... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:57:34 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: biodynamic agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Jim, I agree with much of what you posted here...but i also think you are missing the mark in several areas. 1. science benefits from people that do not believe in it's conclusions...and oftentimes in such a case, scientific conclusions are proven "wrong". thalidomide is not safe for a developing fetus, despite the "science" that showed it was beneficial...would it really matter if one declined to take thalidomide because their psycic told them not to or because they had read the literature and had doubts? in both cases they would still be a data point for scientific study showing what happens when thalidomide is not adminstered. wrt beekeeping, one might consider the scientifically accepted role of bees in flower pollination. from "beekeeping tips and topics" by jaycox, p111-112: "Pastor Sprengel wrote a book about his observations. However, instead of renown for his writing, he acquired only problems. Scientists ignored him, he lost is pastorage, and he was forced to teach languages and conduct botanical field trips on saturdays to make a living. much of our present knowledge about pollination has been built on the observations made by Konrad Sprengel during his lifetime, which ended in 1816." 2. your willingness to discount belief in reincarnation as a sign of ignorance would hold more water (imho) if you were also willing to add "virgin birth" and "resurrection" to that litany. i don't know your own religious/spiritual beliefs/worldview/whatever...and it doesn't much matter to me. i know enough smart (even brilliant) christians who are scientifically minded _and_ believe in virgin birth/resurrection that i can't simply discount everything they say because i don't believe in the same things....likewise with hindus and reincarnation. that said, i do share your concern about apitherapy. there are likely some easily demonstrated benefits to many products of the hive...and there is a real risk/tendancy to group these in with "a magic cure for death" or somesuch....diluting the truth and making it less accessable to those who apply critical thinking. unfortunately, in our current system of things, it is near impossible to do good research in this area (and others) due to the fact that there is nothing propriatary to sell...which is why we are seeing specific honey from specific places and "engineered hive products" studied. my gf/beekeeping parter has attended one of the biodynamic beekeeping weekends at the pfieffer center a few years ago, and got a lot out of it. but neither of us think of it as "truth". deknow ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:39:03 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Internet Honey Scam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Has anyone received an email claiming to have purchased contaminated honey with your label? <...> Merrick, NY 1156" I used to live about 15 miles from Merrick... It's a somewhat affluent, suburban area. >>...it was a small dollar amount so I shipped a container of honey. I would have demanded the contaminated honey back before sending a replacement. It would help resolve right away if this person is just looking for a free jar of honey. If the contamination was real, it might make sense to do a little investigating as to its source. I have never received claims of contamination in my honey but, since I also sell through some third parties, I thought about placing shrinkable plastic bands on my jars. It's not a full proof way of assuring that no one else has tampered with the jar (and then installed a new band) but it's some control. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:34:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: biodynamic agriculture In-Reply-To: <20080114.095734.27153.0@webmail13.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit deknow@netzero.net wrote: > Hi Jim, > > are missing the mark in several areas. > > 1. science benefits from people that do not believe in it's conclusions...and oftentimes in such a case, scientific conclusions are proven "wrong". thalidomide is not safe for a developing fetus, despite the "science" that showed it was beneficial... Bad example, especially since it was the only one. It was not approved in the US. The reason, good science. The FDA rep, a woman scientist of great courage, knew that there could be problems and that the German manufacturer did not show any tests involved with the potential problems. Her strength against tremendous pressure resulted in stricter drug laws in the US and also outside the US. It also turned out that the manufacturer's data, never given out, did show a problem. So science was the good guy here, and marketing the bad guy. Science is not errorless, but it is subject to reasoned experiments that show something different. That is always welcome, but be prepared to prove your findings. I reject the conclusion from one bad example that science is "often" proved wrong. Just check the Journals that come out every year on new findings in Chemistry. Once, many many years ago, there was only one thin book, but now there is volume after volume every year. So out of literally tens of thousands of new findings every year you if you find one or two wrong, that does not constitute "often". As far as the next issue, when you move into things of faith, unfortunately you are in the world of the believer and the charlatan. It becomes a messy world. Bill Truesdell (who believes in both angels and angles and thinks Jim should have stuck to angles.) Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:10:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: The Great Race MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A friend just sent this to me: The Daily Northwestern Monday, January 28, 1889 Oshkosh, Wisconsin Pigeons and Bees A Pigeon fancier of Hamme, Prussia, made a bet that a dozen bees liberated three miles from their hive would reach it in better time than a dozen pigeons would reach their cote from the same distance. The competitors were given wing at Rynhern, a village nearly a league from Hamme, and the first bee finished a quarter of a minute in advance of the first pigeon, three other bees reached the goal before the second pigeon, the main body of both detachments finished almost simultaneously an instant of two later. The bees, too, had been handicapped in the race, having been rolled in flour before starting, for the purposes of identification. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:19:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Almer's Apiary Subject: Re: Internet Honey Scam In-Reply-To: <20080114.083903.21308.0@webmail20.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too sell through resellers. I had a complaint to the reseller by a customer. I made up a form and gave it to the reseller that included space for the customer to enter their name, address, the time and place of purchase and to describe the complaint. The form was addressed to the Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industry (the department that regulates the honey industry in Alabama). I asked that it be given to the customer. The form instructed the customer to BUY as many jars from as many resellers as they felt necessary to prove their case and send them to the dept of "Ag and Ind" for analysis. The form stated that the State would contact me if the complaint was valid and I would work the issue with the state and compensate the customer if in order. I never had a response. The more a customer sends for analysis, the more I sell! Bob Fanning North Alabama USA ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:31:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: biodynamic agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Fischer wrote, in a nutshell: >Its doubly pitiful that Steiner would doom his cult to >trying to recruit from the ranks of beekeepers, a demographic >not known for either their large numbers or thick wallets. >This sort of stuff is so surreal, so completely outside the bounds >of plausibility, it is almost a litmus test for not just critical >thinking skills, but the ability to think at all. Right on, Jim pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************