From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:14:42 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E01490AE for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3Y7Y017265 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0801E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 51159 Lines: 1155 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 05:11:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Apitherapy Course to be Offered April 4-6 in Seattle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Apitherapy Course to be Offered April 4-6 in Seattle American Apitherapy Society 13th Annual Training Course and Conference - CMACC 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/apitherapy-course-to-be-offered-april-4.html ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:19:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: immune responses of insects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Although numerous studies have characterized the immune responses > of insects to pathogens, comparatively little is known > about the counterstrategies pathogens have evolved to circumvent > host defenses. Among the most potent immunosuppressive > pathogens of insects are *polydnaviruses* that are symbiotically > associated with parasitoid wasps. Honglada Thoetkiattikul, Markus H. Beck, and Michael R. Strand Department of Entomology, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602 * I think it is probably ill-advised to make generalizations about insect immune systems at this point since so little is known about them. The honey bee colony is further distinguished in being a super-organism which has collective defenses in addition to the internal defenses of the adult bees, and of course the developing bees. * One characteristic of the living world, however, is that is is constantly changing and so a successful immune system must be able to deal with new and different pathogens. To the extent that it can do that, it succeeds and when it cannot, it fails. Survival of any given species, breed or individual is never assured. -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:27:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: New CCD data In-Reply-To: <003101c861af$a62eb8b0$1fe84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bob, since you seem to be close to the "thick" of things, I wonder what it > would hurt to suggest that several of the hives of bees be moved to fresh > comb RIGHT NOW. We made the suggestion long ago but when experiments are set up they usually have to run the course as originally set up. Very little has been learned from the project. I do not want to speak for Dave and the project (although I have received inside knowledge) but I will say that all I have spoke with believe some of those packages should have been hived on new equipment as a control. All of the commercial beekeepers I spoke with believe the new major issues today are neonicotinoids and bee nutrition. Control of mites and nosema is still a priority but nothing new. bob ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:55:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Bob_Harrison?= Subject: almond pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, We spoke this week with a bee hauler (coming to Missouri next week to haul bees from Missouri to almonds) and he said all the loads he has hauled to almonds from the Dakota's have been crappy bees (his words). I respect his opinion as we have been friends for a long time. The Missouri bees were checked yesterday and look better than they have in years (personal phone conversation). I was supposed to be home today but was forced off the road for the night due to high winds and blizzard conditions. I spoke with Australia last night until the call was dropped. Australia said they are over booked on package orders and have had to turn many orders away (still contact suppliers if you need packages in case of changes). Australia said reports of hives in poor condition in California started about two weeks ago. For commercial beekeepers reading which have tried to get Australian packages and have not been able I will try and explain. Australia has the bees and queens but the airline which hauls the shipments (United) has declined to haul bees on their airplanes which have not had a certain fire upgrade. United says when Boeing provides the upgrades all their planes will be able to haul bees. United said all planes will be completed by June. United is trying to schedule planes which have allready had the upgrade between Sidney and the U.S.. The Australian package industry is sorry for the problem but thinks the problem will be solved for next year. United has tried to get out of flying bees but the higher ups at United understand the current problems the U.S. beekeeping industry is facing. In order to help a Montana beekeeper keep his pollination accounts bulk bees with pheromones ( a first to U.S.)were shipped this week. It will be a week before we know if the shipment arrived alright. All of the above bee problems could be considered normal but I am getting a bit concerned. All out of state bees should be in California the first week of February and graded shortly after. We should have a good idea of the state of the commercial migratory industry by middle February. What news from almonds has others heard? Randy? Keith? bob PS. Randy, Medhat & others. I can receive email on the road but not able to send. Will get the problem solved when I get home and reply to your emails. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:26:19 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Decontamination of pesticide packing using ionizing radiation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The paper I cited (1) says that 100 kGy removed dioxins in solution > so that liquid wastes did not exhibit dioxin toxicity. Having things "in (liquid) solution" helps quite a bit, lowering the amount of exposure required. Also, the wastes in the paper you cited would be passed through the beam in a fairly compact stream, a much easier case than the boxes of comb, where there are multiple layers of wood, pollen/honey, maybe plastic foundation, and lots of wax are between the source and the targets. > It is not just the photons themselves that break chemical bonds, > but radicals generated from the solvent also cause an effect, > amplifying the decay. Exactly - ionization helps. Again, this makes things much easier for the "in liquid" case. Not the case for boxes of comb, which are "dry". > So are you sure that it would take several thousand times the exposure > level in the CCD experiments to make much impact on the level of pesticides > present? In a word, yes. Perhaps as much as several hundred thousand times. One wonders if the wax would melt from the waste heat before we could be sure of a significant pesticide "kill" rate. The gamma radiation can be thought of as a "bolt-action rife" as compared to the sun as a "machine gun" in terms of "rounds per minute" (photons per fixed interval of time). We are talking several orders of magnitude difference. There are also massive differences in the relative sizes of the targets. Again, several orders of magnitude. "Football stadium" versus "mating nuc" in terms of size differences. > I can't see anyone knowing exactly how compounds will behave > in or on comb until they try it out and measure the result. While I am confident that Mary Ann Fraiser and the team of pesticide analysis folks doing the HPLC-MS work will not let this go untested for the specific case at hand (boxes of comb in the specific beam[s] utilized), I think that simple comparisons of the massive differences between: a) The flux of a gamma source versus that of the sun b) The size of any chemical molecule versus even the smallest virus Answer the question with authority. As a sanity check, consider this - if irradiation of fruits and veggies was a process that could be economically employed to render the food "non-toxic" in terms of pesticides in addition to killing pathogens, don't you think that this would have been touted by at least one supermarket chain by now? But if we consider Bob's report that the Hackenberg hives irradiated and repopulated with Aussie packages "are in trouble": http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0801d&L=bee-l&T=0&P=983 3 I'm not sure what to make of the claims made about the whole irradiation process, and I'd really want to see the "control results" where they try to culture the test plate bacteria after the irraditaion. I'm not even sure that we can assume that the hives were properly "sterilized" without something akin to proof. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:57:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey, Royal Jelly May Help Treat Reduced Sperm Motility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey, Royal Jelly May Help Treat Reduced Sperm Motility Midcycle Pericoital Intravaginal Bee Honey and Royal Jelly for Male Factor Infertility Int J Gynaecol Obstet, 2008 Jan 26 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/honey-royal-jelly-may-help-treat.html OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the efficacy of pericoital intravaginal applications of a mixture of Egyptian bee honey and royal jelly (H/RJ) in the midcycle for the treatment of infertility due to asthenozoospermia... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:03:19 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Fw: [BEE-L] New Zealand Manuka Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill wrote: > Most of the science I have seen on methylglyoxal involves much lower > concentrations. Even then, there are questions. So as noted, there is > still much more to look at before you can say there are no problems. > > Prudence is the only point I am making. I am with Bill on this one and am wondering if the medical profession has been hoodwinked. It seems amazing that manuka-based dressings have been approved for use before anyone knew that methylglyoxal is the active agent - or perhaps before they even knew that it contained methyglyoxal. Peter Edwards ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:06:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Molan: MGO Level Not Good Indicator of Honey's Antibacterial Activity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Molan: MGO Level Not Good Indicator of Honey's Antibacterial Activity http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/molan-mgo-level-not-good-indicator-of.html The representation of the antibacterial activity of manuka honey as the level in it of the active component MGO would be very misleading for consumers. A paper ("Isolation by HPLC and characterisation of the bioactive fraction of New Zealand manuka (Leptospermum scoparium) honey") recently published in the journal 'Carbohydrate Research' by members of the Chemistry Department at the University of Waikato shows clearly that the level of MGO does not give a good indication of the antibacterial activity of the honey. Although it is the component responsible for the activity, complex interactions with other components of the honey cause the actual antibacterial activity that results from it in the honey to vary... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:04:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Griggs Mike Subject: Re: immune responses of insects Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Peter wrote: > ...though numerous studies have characterized the immune responses > of insects to pathogens, comparatively little is known... This is absolutely true--but studies on other organisms like plants and other animals show that globalization with the massive movement of organisms (read micro-organisms) introduce unique interactions such that the "new" or unexposed host has little or no biological immunity. There are parallels to be drawn which will help identify some of these complexities. We are just really getting a sense of the catastrophic affect of introductions of organisms that are not indigenous to a new host. I was reading an article some years back that hypothesized that the bubonic plague may have been due to introduction of a new strain of plague from the new world via import ( to Europe) of beaver pelts by way of North European explorers, maybe vikings--way prior to Columbus-- They hypothesized this was the reason for such a huge reaction by the host population in Europe, 1/3 died. The organism was a new organism that the host population had little immunity because they had never before been infected with this specific organism. Conditions had probably been dirty before this time & rats had been around--what triggered this catastrophe? It looks very much like a new introduced pathogen response to a population without immunity. The list of these novel interactions and the speed at which organisms are being discovered -viral, bacterial, arthropod--you name it has really increased. Chestnut blight, Dutch elm disease, plum pox, soy rust, corn smutt, sudden oak death...--the list seems endless. In part we are becoming ware of these because of new tools to separate these new organisms via DNA differentiation from very similar organisms that may only differ at a strain level. As beekeepers we are seeing a huge increase in the number and speed at which new invasives are introduced (or discovered). We missed some, more are out there waiting to be discovered & the way they are interacting is faster than how the industry is able to respond. Many of our tactics have been developed 100 years ago & have not changed much if any. We still burn AFB as best management or treat with antibiotics. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg for invisible invasives, ie microscopic organisms like virus & bacterium, and fungi & phytoplasms, maybe and insect or mite born pathogen like a prion will be next. Add in the complex life pathogen transmission in insects to cloud determination of organism. For example, some aphids acquire a virus by sucking on a plant. The virus passes through the gut into the body of the insect and then migrates to the insects salivary glands where it is then re-injected into the plant. The virus needs to be capable of compromising two very different immune systems, that of a plant & that of an insect. So is it a plant or insect virus? Are some of the bee virus, we now know exist, being selected by the mite immune system, ie passing through the mites where some mite DNA is added, or are they just mechanically transmitted? Do bees acquire a virus when cannibalizing a pupae when extracting it from a cell? I'm sure some of these issue will be broached in the coming years now that a host of new organisms have been detected in the states and they will certainly elucidate more of the Bee immune system along the path. I just hope we don't see too many more microscopic invasives! Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:43:48 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Decontamination of pesticide packing using ionizing radiat ion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>As a sanity check, consider this - if irradiation of fruits and veggies was a process that could be economically employed to render the food "non-toxic" in terms of pesticides in addition to killing pathogens, don't you think that this would have been touted by at least one supermarket chain by now? You likely have been consuming irradiated foods without knowing it and without anyone touting it. Irradiation of some foods has been approved since the 60's and the list of approved foods has been growing. I don't think 'irradiated food' sounds very appealing to consumers at all. www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/fs/irradiation/news/irradiation.html Has not the Almond Board of California changed the description on treated raw almonds from irradiated to pasteurized to make sound more appealing and benign? Here is the list of irradiated foods allowed by the USDA and CDC: www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/foodirradiation.htm#foodapproved and http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:nn76dUe2wXQJ:fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_reslist.php%3Fproduct_id%3D142+Almond+Board+of+California+irradiation+pasteurization&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us I have not seen studies that would demonstrate that carcinogenic, mutagenic, free radical etc. substances are not created during the irradiation. Almond irradiation can make them taste rancid so molecular change do take place. Why would anyone think that anything that breaks down tough viruses and pesticides somehow leaves food and the nutrients in it intact? As a consumer, at a minimum, I'd want clear labeling of food products that states if a particular food has been irradiated (and don't call it pasteurized) or has been made from irradiated ingredients (a current loophole!). Let's be honest and at least offer the consumer choice in the matter. Irradiated raw almonds are not raw just as heated honey is not raw. BTW, irradiation can give almonds a rancid taste at 16 kGy. Almonds contain about 45% unsaturated fatty acids and may become more susceptible to lipid peroxidation when irradiated. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:42:37 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: immune responses of insects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...globalization with the massive movement of organisms (read micro-organisms) introduce unique interactions such that the "new" or unexposed host has little or no biological immunity. Right. Global warming is having a direct effect, too. Many spiecies are moving northword. Tiger mosquites, native to the Indian Ocean area, can now overwinter in parts of Italy. They recently vectored a disease onto humans there that resembles malaria. >>Conditions had probably been dirty before this time & rats had been around--what triggered this catastrophe? It looks very much like a new introduced pathogen response to a population without immunity. Hygiene is a key in allowing the immune sytem develop countermeasures before getting overwhelmed first. As is nutrition (vitamin D and other nutrients). People get colds in the winter more in the northern hemisphere than the tropics because their bodies are covered up the sun and don't produce much vitamin D. >>...and they will certainly elucidate more of the Bee immune system along the path. In the glorious words of T.S. Elliot: "We shall not cease exploration. And at the end of all our exploring... will be to arrive where we started... and know the place for the first time." :)) Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:49:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: immune responses of insects In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Mike wrote: > The list of these novel interactions and the speed at which organisms > are being discovered -viral, bacterial, arthropod--you name it has > really increased. I think you hit the nail on the head, Mike! During my beekeeping career (a mere blip in evolutionary time), bees have picked up quite a number of new pathogens: chalkbrood, tracheal and varroa mites, SHB, N ceranae, Isreaeli and likely other viruses and mutations, and new vector pathways (mites and N ceranae) for virus transmission. All in the last 40 years! It is of no surprise to me that bee behavior and immune systems are having a hard time keeping up. >maybe and insect or mite born pathogen like a prion will be next. I was just talking with others recently about the possibility of a prion like, mite-transmitted protein Would be easy to overlook in the case of, say, CCD. >Are some of the bee virus, we now know exist, being selected by the mite immune system, ie passing through the mites where some mite DNA is added, or are they just mechanically transmitted? Evidence certainly points to viral evolution in the mite/bee complex, since both are hosts to some viruses. E.g., some mites are immune to DWV, and do not transmit it to bees. As both Mike and Pete point out, we are looking at a very complex situation--the interaction of multiple gene pools, mutations and gene swapping, multiple hosts, and constantly evolving pathogenicity and immune response. Each new advancement in genetic technology brings up even more questions. Meanwhile, it just keeps us beekeepers wondering what's around the corner! Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:36:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: what apiary management specialists are missing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It never ceases to amaze me how many bee experts there are among the non-beekeeping public. Another in the series of "I told you so" stories quote: > if we are willing to examine the problem holistically we might see what apiary management specialists, entomologists and agronomists are missing. We got into this mess by making assumptions that have no basis in reality. Our hubris has led us to imagine that we can subvert nature to our own uses. http://www.newstarget.com/022541.html ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:04:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey and Cancer, Dental Health, Gastric Disorders, Wound Healing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey and Cancer, Dental Health, Gastric Disorders, Wound Healing Literature Review of Honey and Health Benefits Susan Lutz, PhD; Shirzad Chunara, MHSc RD; Rae Kennedy, BSc Alberta Beekeepers (ABA), August 2007 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/01/honey-and-cancer-dental-health-gastric.html ...Cancer: Human trials based on approximately 125 subjects in two well designed studies and two clinical trials using varied dosages of honey demonstrated positive effects on antioxidant potential for the prevention of cancer and as a beneficial aid in the treatment of cancer. Only one animal study was found using in vitro and in vivo as the experimental design. It looked at the anti-tumour effects of honey against bladder cancer in mice. There were no cell culture studies reported for honey and cancer... ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:49:55 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Carbaryl SEVIN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Friends As I told you in october 300 colonies of my colonies suffered from pesticide intoxication with Sevin (Carbaryl) from an aplication done over Apples in a near by field. I have received the laboratory results from the samples taken by the agricultural authority indicating a concentration of Carbaryl of 0.28 mg/kg (ppm) on one sample and 0.04 mg/kg (ppm) on another. Any one knows which are the deadly limits on bees? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:15:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: almond pollination In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Bob, Glad to hear from you! Re California situation, the weather has been abnormally cold and wet. Beekeepers are having trouble getting into their colonies for supplement feeding, and broodrearing has been curtailed, meaning that colonies will not go in as strong as hoped. Supply of colonies still sounds adequate, but there are a number of operations that were surprised by late losses. Some have had major collapses. But no one that I am talking with is even going to try to predict what the supply will look like on February 15. Rental prices are strong. There was a glut of offered bees last month, but that appears to have dried up as beekeepers lifted the lids. There are plenty of white boxes in California--the question will be, how many of them contain bees? The word I'm hearing from all over, is that it just takes a lot more work to keep colonies alive. Most operations appear to be struggling to keep existing boxes full, and have not been able to expand. Yearly losses are unacceptably high. Sure, a number got hit by the usual problems--mites got ahead, poor forage, nosema, or pesticide issues. However, good beekeepers with good management are still having problems, despite paying attention to the above. Although many have pet answers to explain colony collapses, the answer does not appear to be simple. Clearly, many of the losses can be attributed to the usual culprits, plus N ceranae, but there are other losses that remain unexplained. Viruses are highly suspect, plus sublethal pesticide/miticide exposure. I wish everyone the best of luck! Randy Oliver ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:20:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: what apiary management specialists are missing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter & All, Peter said: > It never ceases to amaze me how many bee experts there are among the > non-beekeeping public. Another in the series of "I told you so" > stories I did not care for the "as fact" way she presented the information she gleaned no doubt from many published sources and did her own interpretation of the information. At the end I gave the article a five on the scale of 1-10 listed. Really nothing new in her opinion ( close to my long time friend Dee Lusby's opinion in places) but like most of these type articles (as Peter pointed out) they are "I told you so" and offer no solution to the problems she points out other than eliminating commercial migratory beekeeping. Does Laura Weldon (from her isolated country abode complete with internet and computer) also think the whole world should quit moving bees to pollinate our food supply. What about all the workers supported by these farms. She suggests (not surprisingly) that we should only by local organic> I have no problem with consumers that want to pay 8-10 bucks a pound for honey the vender says is organic or pesticide free. However I am the beekeeper at one of the largest farmers markets in the U.S. and all you have got is the beekeepers word. Also there is no proof the chain store honey supply is unsafe or mixed with corn syrup. Three years of buying honey and testing by the FDA found no problems (honey was placed on a three year watch by the FDA after contaminated honey ( cloramphenical) was found in bulk honey from China ) Even the amounts found posed no serious health risk to the healthy person but zero tolerance in honey makes the product unsalable in the U.S.. Many of her facts were basically correct and taken no doubt off the net but in the area of commercial migratory beekeeping little information is available. I have provided as much of a look into the large migratory beekeeping world as most likely exists through internet posts. She did not get the following from me and is very inaccurate from the 7th assumption: "Bees can not regulate the hive temp. when the hive is closed for transport" First point is hive entrances are NEVER closed on semi's and bees can cluster and regulate temps. True hives on the front of the load in cold weather can be affected by wind chill but we tarp the nose in cold weather . As long as the cluster is over honey cold is normally not a problem. In hot weather the scenario changes and will be covered before long (this spring) in an article on hot weather semi trucking of hives. The main source of the information comes from an interview with a 50,000 hive southern migratory beekeeper which is an expert in moving bees in all weather conditions. Even I learned many things doing the article. "Beekeepers commonly kill the queen each year by opening the hive and crushing her" This is simply not so with professional beekeepers. You pull an outside frame first and then go to the middle frame. The above beekeeper I recently interviewed does not let new beekeepers in his operation wear gloves until they learn how to work bees without mashing bees. I am not so hard a task master but I watch new employees carefully until I am sure they understand the proper way to work bees. I ran a bee inspector off years ago because he sat the hive lid beside the hive and then tried to mash a few hundred bees trying to put the lid back down. You always shake the bees from the lid in front of the entrance and then replace the lid. poor beekeeping makes for aggressive bees! "they introduce an instrumentally inseminated queens (II) that has been purchased and shipped" Yes we use II queens for breeder queens but clearly none of us can afford II production queens nor would those supplying such queens be able to meet demand. Cells are more often used than mated queens but when beekeepers are making money more use mated queens and packages. When times were hard for the industry ( many outfits went bankrupt) cells were the norm. Almond pollination (through higher fees) has kept many outfits out of bankruptcy. Only one stop of many for many commercial outfits but without a doubt the most profitable. The reason for the high prices is for the most part is to lure bees in to pollinate almonds. California beekeepers provide less than half the bees needed each year and many estimates are less than a third. $30-$40 a hive would not pay expenses for movement to almonds from the Midwest today but these were the fees in the late nineties. I have sent bees into almonds from the Midwest for a fee in the forty dollar range. Laura's Eighth assumption first part is fairly accurate in my opinion. However her last part reads like an add for " Super Boost" which is a product for which the final verdict has not yet been made with most of us. I am old school and still consider the wisdom of Andy N. when asked about what to feed bees. His reply was to feed the bees diesel fumes at a California national meeting years ago! Which means for those puzzled is to move the bees to locations of honey flow and fresh pollen. I have found bees without a honey flow are like a duck out of water. Sure some honey and pollens are better than others but bees come alive when the nets are pulled in Texas or Florida and within minutes you see fresh pollen on the legs of bees. Always puts a smile on the migratory beekeepers face! Cooped up in a hive all winter with only the hope of survival is not the best way for bees to live in my opinion but is natures way for bees kept in northern climates. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Missouri http://www.newstarget.com/022541.html > > ****************************************************** > * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * > * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * > ****************************************************** > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:01:00 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Carbaryl SEVIN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Any one knows which are the deadly limits on bees? Not sure about the limits but Sevin obtainable at Home Depot (a distribution chain for building materials and home goods) carries an explicit warning that it's extremely toxic to honey bees. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:30:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] Carbaryl SEVIN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by pollinator@SC.RR.COM to the = BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of = previously posted material. ________________________________ From: pollinator@sc.rr.com [mailto:pollinator@sc.rr.com] Sent: Thu 2008.01.31 13:20 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Carbaryl SEVIN You need to be concerned with a more important issue - prevention of = this happening again. There are two tools that can help. One is = education of applicators and the other is enforcement of the laws. I don't know the laws in your country, but, if the apples were in bloom, = or if there was bloom (such as dandelions or clover) under the trees, it = would have been a clearcut violation of the label. Enforcement is a different story. In the US, enforcement is left up to = the states and is quite variable. Enforcement of bee protection label = directions is best in states with a large fruit industry that knows how = vital the bees and the beekeepers are. Here in South Carolina, cotton is = king and they own the pesticide industry, along with the regulators.=20 Quick gathering of the evidence is critical to prosecution. The only = enforcement action I've ever gotten in South Carolina is when I provided = a video to the pesticides cops - of the application being done, as the = bees were visiting bloom in the application area. As to education, here is a flow chart that can be tweaked to fit various = situations - this one is for cotton, and never got any support from = extension, so I don't know if it's done much good.=20 http://www.pollinator.com/cotton/flowchart.htm=20 I had another similar flow chart that was picked up by extension in = several fruit growing areas and was widely published through them. You = might find it useful in educating your applicators - especially if you = can get backed up by the right people. One of the pesticide cops checking an application in progress to see if = they have taken steps to protect bees (by waiting for petal fall, mowing = bloom under the trees, using non-residuals after daily flight is over, = etc.) has a wonderful effect on all other pesticide applicators in the = area. Word travels fast. Again, I've never been able to get any of this in South Carolina. They = say they don't have the funds, but that's not true. Preventive = enforcement is far cheaper than after-the-fact investigations. Good luck. There is growing awareness of the need for pollinator = protection that may help you. I hope it is in time. Pesticide losses and = the foot-dragging on enforcement was a major factor in my deciding on = early retirement. Because I had the largest pollination business in this = small state, this was a loss for agriculture in the state - far more = than is realized, I'm sure. Dave, AKA "Pollinator"=20 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:50:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: Carbaryl SEVIN In-Reply-To: <20080131.100100.29586.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit According to the paper below, "The oral LD50 for [Carbaryl] is 0.18 µg/bee (about 1-2 mg/kg)." It is _extremely_ toxic to honeybees who will collect the white powder while foraging and take it back to the hive where it will kill the rest of the colony. . http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc153.htm Mike Rossander --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:32:04 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: Re: Carbaryl SEVIN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a beekeeper here in the Niagara Peninsula I share and understand this situation. Commonly guthion and other sprays have been used . Spraying is always done after the blossoming and then Sevin is commonly used as the apples develope when the producer wishes to thin the apples on the trees. This is a delicate spraying situation that if the concentration is not perfect will cause complete crop loss or a very poor crop. Obviously if there is a residue in such an amount that bees can pick it up then the people spraying it no nothing about what they are doing and need to be educated not only from the toxicity standpoint but also the contamination aspect of the surrounding area. I feel the beekeeper is obligated to discuss spraying habits with the property owner where bees may be affected simply as a measure of insuring the safety of ones own bees. A good farmer will spray only when weather conditions are right and most do it early morning well before the bees fly so that the spray dries appropriately . At one point I covered my bees for the interm since weather conditions forced a change of scheduling and wind direction was not favourable for the spraying to take place. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:35:07 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Carbaryl SEVIN In-Reply-To: <461892.39631.qm@web51506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Mike (an the rest) After searching the net, the units and transformations are not that simple. So I finally found a good reference http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/carbaryl_ired.pdf in the same units that those on my lab report: That is Interim Reregistration Eligibility Decision (IRED) by EPA for Carbaryl There on page 45 is table 17 that I copy for everyone to see * Test Species * * Acute Toxicity * * Chronic Toxicity * * LD50 (ppm) * * Acute Oral Toxicity * * NOAEC/LOAEC (ppm) * * Affected Endpoints * * Mallard duck Anas platyrhynchos * >2000 practically nontoxic 300 / 600 decreased number of eggs; eggs cracked * Honey bee Apis meliferus * 0.0011 very highly toxic -- -- * Laboratory rat Rattus norvegicus * 301 moderately toxic 75 / 300 decreased pup survival As seen on this table Carbaryl is actually very highly toxic to honey bees with LD50 of 0.0011 ppm or mg/kg. As in the lab results of my sampled bees I get levels of 0.04 ppm and 0.28ppm , can I stand secure in court? I guess so. On page 51 this reports states. * b. Risk to Insects ** Acute contact toxicity *studies indicate that technical carbaryl is highly toxic to honey bees (*Apis mellifera*) with an LD50 = 0.0011 mg ai/bee; however, acute contact toxicity testing of Carbaryl SC, an end-use product, indicates bees are less sensitive to formulations with an LD50 = 0.0040 mg ai/bee. *Acute oral toxicity studies *with carbaryl reveal that technical grade carbaryl, with an LC50 = 0.0001 mg ai/bee, is roughly ten times more toxic than the formulated soluble concentrate (Carbaryl SC LC50 = 0.0016 mg ai/bee). Carbaryl ranged from being moderately to highly toxic to predacious insects, mites and spiders. In a field study to examine the effects of carbaryl on bees when the chemical is used to thin fruit, carbaryl SC (water miscible concentrate) applications to pple orchards at a rate of 0.8 lbs ai/A did not have a significant effect on bee mortality and/or behavior. A total of five incidents related to carbaryl are reported in the Ecological Incident Information System . Two of the reports do not contain any data but rather reflect general concerns expressed by the American Beekeeper Federation and the Honey Industry Council on the role pesticides play in bee kills. The remaining three incidents are: a bee mortality incident associated with 0.08ppm carbaryl residues in North Carolina; another North Carolina bee mortality incident more likely attributable to methyl parathion than carbaryl; and a Washington State bee mortality incident associated with carbaryl use on asparagus. EPA also received comments from Minnesota bee keepers expressing concerns about carbaryl on poplar groves. EPA received these comments after issuing the revised risk assessment. I will comment in the near future. Thanks to every one for the help!!! -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************