From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:11:59 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-82.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,MILLION_USD,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DCF49099 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YX5017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0802D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 224725 Lines: 5032 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:36:46 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: And keeps on rising Comments: To: honey_australia@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline www.skamberg.com/honey.htm february update I sold more honey today. The exporter pay me US$2.4 per kilo + VAT + drum + shipping. I am happy. I am getting close to 100 kg per hive average. Good year, I lov= e La Ni=F1a. Cari=F1os y Abrazos!!! --=20 Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:09:42 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Bleach in Syrup: Summary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Mike As I am the one that had been promoting the use of bleach in syrup I feel obligued to answer, even tough I should reply: search the archives :) I will go for a longer answer. I been using bleach for controling nosema for the past two years. First I supposed was N.Apis, now I know from analysis done at Spain that it is N.ceranae. After some experimentation trying to kill the bees, or better to say , trying to arrive to LD50, I started using 500 ppm of Sodium Hipochlorite in the syrup. That is 1 litre of NaHCl at 10% concentration per 55 gall drum . That was done in spring and autum. I buy "pure" chlorine because the household bleach have something in it that makes it unpalatable!!! Past chilean winter, that BTW was very hard for our standard, I have many colonies collapsing, so I tested for nosema again and spores counts were again very high. So I have to develop a way to apply chlorine but without giving to much syrup. I went for dribbling like with oxalic acid 5cc per space between frames with bees. I prepared this time a syrup like this: 250 parts HFCS 100 parts purify water 150 parts chlorine at 10% If I am correct with my calculations this gives a 2% chlorine concentration. I dribble one time on six hives and this were the results: Spore counts Before treatment : 66 Spore count After treatment: 22 In the control group (4 hives) the spores increased in the same period from 57 to 73 on average. I suggest to dribble 3 times: one per week during 3 weeks. Same as fumagilin Then in spring I went back with the 500 ppm of chlorine in syrup. Latter on I changed the chlorine for acetic acid in the same ratio, that is 1 litre per drum. As was posted here do not mix chlorine with acetic. it will gassify. My final comments are:: 1.- More research should be done (as always) Maybe Clorox wants to finance it :) 2.- If you do not have fumagilin at hand or cant pay for it, dribble or feed chlorine to your hives at least three times one per week. 3.- As syrup can rapidly spoil during warm weather due to fermentation and colonization by yeasts, bacteria, and fungi, you can prevent this by adding bleach. 4.- search the bee-l archives 5.- beware of chlorine contamination in the honey if you do not apply in the correct time!!. good night -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:52:24 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe carson Subject: Re: Nozevit In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10802212018n2bc5db5ct7e702033b3fc75da@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it is a specific tree. We do not let it out though as others will try to c= opy. =20 =20 =20 Dr. Carson > Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:18:33 -0300> From: juanseapi@GMAIL.COM> Subject= : [BEE-L] Nozevit> To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu> > Joe> > Any clues on whi= ch plants they use for the tincture? After your first post> talking about N= ozevit I been googling for the potential plants and the word> Matico appear= very frequently, however the "popular" name of that plant> refers me to mo= re than one possibility on the scientific names. At the same> time Matic an= d Matice means "queen" or mother in Slovenian (matriarca), so> Matico could= be the same in Croatian or other local lenguage.> > Our chilean Matico> ht= tp://www.florachilena.cl/Niv_tax/Angiospermas/Ordenes/Lamiales/Buddlejaceae= /matico.htm> is> used for intestinal problems and other medical uses> http:= //www.mundonuevo.cl/areas/Areas_Tematicas/Terapias_Naturales/plantas_medici= nales/matico.php> > -- > Juanse Barros J.> APIZUR S.A.> Carrera 695> Gorbea= - CHILE> +56-45-271693> 08-3613310> http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/> jua= nseapi@gmail.com> > ****************************************************> *= General Information About BEE-L is available at: *> * http://www.honeybeew= orld.com/bee-l/default.htm *> *********************************************= ******* _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120= 08= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:23:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Bleach in Syrup In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > I've never heard of bleach in syrup for winter feeding. What is it > supposed to accomplish? Some claim that it may help with nosema--Juanse uses it dribbled over the bees. I'd sure like to hear if anyone else has used it with success. For summer feeding of light syrup, 1 tsp per gal prevents fermentation. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:20:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: CCD team & imidacloprid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > The main focus of Cox-Foster's working group is on nicotine based compounds called neonicotinoids, which were first introduced as pesticides in 1992. One idea is that low doses interfere with a bee's ability to navigate back to the hive. And lab studies have shown that at least one such compound, imidacloprid, can kill bees at high doses. There are few data that imidacloprid harms bees in fields, however. And other lines of evidence argue against blaming these pesticides. In 1999, France banned imidacloprid after beekeepers complained that it was causing up to 40% of their colonies to die. Yet the colonies don't seem to be doing much better now, notes Yves Le Conte of the Laboratoire Biologie et Protection de L'Abeille, INRA, in Avignon, France. > And in the United States, there has been no spike in imidacloprid usage that might account for the recent colony collapse. "Pesticides can't be an explanation for why organic beekeepers are losing their colonies," Berenbaum says. The CCD working group has nevertheless sent samples of wax, honey, and pollen from hives to be tested by USDA food-testing labs for more than 200 chemicals, including fungicides, pesticides, and their metabolites. > Researchers at the Beltsville meeting agreed that the immediate top priority is better surveillance to establish the true incidence of colony collapse. They called for a $2 million survey of bee health by USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, which the agency had proposed last year but was not funded. Ultimately, researchers want to be able to predict and then prevent CCD. "We need practical bioassays for beekeepers—and to be able to tell them what to do in response," says vanEngelsdorp. –ERIK STOKSTAD www.sciencemag.org **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:01:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: label laws In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802212123t60de3f87g15ae4fb43351e7b8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, On C-span this morning an attorney named Sarah Klein from the Center for Science in the Public interest said a change was coming in country of origin labeling but the change would be only to include a higher number of products. Klein said they lost the battle to make packers list the percent of the product which was from each country. Which is what beekeepers want. An example would be 80% China honey first and 20% U.S.A. second. Klein also spoke on the Hallmark meat *voluntary* meat recall (the largest in history) and what a farce it is in reality. The reason is simple. You will not find a single package anyplace in the U.S. with the name Hallmark on the label. Every pound went to stores which add their own label. Has anyone noticed the news media is not saying "if you have a package of hallmark beef with these numbers return to the supermarket for an refund!" What will the largest recall in history actually cost Hallmark? I have made a few calls to friends in large cities and they report the same thing I see. Not one store in the KC area has said they sold the hallmark beef under their store label and bring in for a refund. Klein said public outrage is the answer. Every person should grab the beef package from our fridge and freezer and go to the store we purchased and demand to know if the beef came from hallmark . of course we all know very few people really care. After all we are all simply too busy! The beef industry damage control says how safe the meat is *if* we heat to 160F. Klein pointed out that the issue is mad cow which totally has slipped past our news media. Not to mention that mad cow takes 7 years and longer to show up! My 2 cents worth! bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:42:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Ian_Steppler?= Subject: Bee Losses in California? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, I am hearing RUMOURS here and there that there is trouble again with bees being shipped down to California. I am told that there will/or is a shortage of bees by at least 150k, reports of beekeepers loading up great looking hives from northern yards to find hives dwindling in the holding yards. Contracts need to be filled, and beekeepers having trouble building hive strength to specs. I do believe the bloom should be on now, what is actually happening down there? Is there any truth to the RUMOURs I am hearing? Thanks for your comments. Ian Steppler Canadian Beekeeper - who is really getting tierd of our long cold winter! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:25:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) In-Reply-To: <07DA9E08835F4DE5970EDD77DD6B8F2C@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > > I have said the above before but do so now for the last time. We will > have to agree to disagree! I have received emails form other list > members wondering why you guys do not understand what I am saying. > > I have had enough ( as Aaron would say!) of this subject! Me too, but I do agree with your last post. The problem I have is with those who do blame CCD on imid. I probably did misinterpret your comments, but you have been after Bayer with spiked shoes, so I probably started from that point, when you may have been elsewhere. The internet does not lend itself well to nuance. You cannot see or hear the other person, so much is lost and simple statements can easily be mis-read. I value your posts and learn a lot from them. But I do whole heartedly agree that we have left this horse in a pulp. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:27:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: Bee Losses in California? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is what I have also heard. This is the only article I have been able = to find. =20 http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/blogs/bees/almonds-55021901 =20 Jimhttp://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.=A0You IM, we g= ive. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=3Dtext_hotmail_join= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:59:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: The Latest Buzz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit www.sciencemag.org The Latest Buzz > The Report "A metagenomic survey of microbes in honey bee colony collapse disorder" (D. L. Cox-Foster et al., 12 October 2007, p. 283) identified Israeli acute paralysis virus (IAPV) as a putative marker for colony collapse disorder (CCD). It also purports to show a relationship between U.S. colony declines as early as 2004 and importations of Australian honeybees. … It would now be appropriate for the authors of the Science Report to issue a retraction of the claims linking CCD to importation of Australian bees. - DENIS ANDERSON & IAIN J. EAST > Anderson and East suggest that CCD is an ambiguous disorder consistent with normal winter losses. We do not agree. CCD is characterized by a rapid loss of adult bees; excess brood, in all stages, abandoned in the hive; low levels of varroa; and a lack of dead bees in or near the hive. In CCD, levels of varroa do not reach those associated with normal winter losses, distinguishing CCD from colony declines attributed to parasitic mites. Although Anderson and East imply that we claim to have determined the cause of CCD, the final paragraph of our paper states, "We have not proven a causal relationship between any infectious agent and CCD" ... Nonetheless, IAPV lineages have now been found in U.S. bees; one of them correlates genetically with IAPV found in bees in Australian shipments. The presence of IAPV strains in older U.S. samples does not eliminate a role for this virus in CCD. - DIANA COX-FOSTER et al www.sciencemag.org **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:10:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Bee Losses in California? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have heard the same thing 10,000 hives dead in holding yard from fall, brokers trying to get 4 frame hives for pollination and flap about Aussie bees causing deaths. Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper charlie@russianbreeder.org labeeman@russianbreeder.com (337) 298 6261 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:24:41 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Bee Losses in California? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Is there any truth to the RUMOURs I am hearing? Hi Ian, I haven't wanted to dispute previous posts that there are plenty of bees in Calif. As with last year, there are plenty of boxes in Calif. Again, as in last year, some of those boxes had bees in them in the recent past, but no longer do. The bloom is just beginning--way late, and the weather has turned foul again. Many out of staters dropped off bees early, expecting better weather, and a timely bloom. Neither happened. So colonies sat in the cold and starved. Not cold enough to form a tight cluster and conserve stores, so they burned through their food. Then a few days of warm to get robbing and burn up even more energy futilely looking for food. Then the current rain again, which should last through Sunday. My guess is that colony protein levels are low, unless the colonies have patties on them. Monday should begin a sunny turn in the weather, and then we will really know what the bee situation is. But I can tell you that cell phones are ringing as beekeepers try to fill in sudden holes in their contracts. I personally went down and put pollen supplement on all my protein-hungry colonies a few days ago. Other local beekeepers kept their bees out of the orchards and on mustard flows until the last minute--they are moving in today in the rain. Almond pollination separates the bee-keepers from the box haulers. Now before anyone accuses me of blaming losses on PPB, there are some very good beekeepers experiencing losses. There are also mediocre beekeepers (such as myself) suffering the same (I believe that mine reached their nadir about two weeks ago). There are some incredibly strong colonies in almonds--I'm talking to those guys to see how they pulled it off. 'Cause next year... Randy Oliver In rainy California **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:33:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: label laws] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > attorney named Sarah Klein from the Center for Science in the Public interest A biased advocacy group. I would be careful before charging ahead with any of their action items. They tend to be against more than for anything and are agenda driven. Think vegetarian, Peta or any anti-meat group. They are tied together with CSPI. It sounds like they are more interested in stopping all meat sales through fear. The labeling law, even if in effect, would do nothing for the current problem. The comments about honey labels is correct. The labeling law has been around for a while with exemptions. It has been a running battle between the meat processors and cattle growers (sound familiar) to remove the exemptions. There are only three exempt industries- meat, nuts and produce. The meat processors (always referred to as the "meat industry" as if the growers had nothing to do with it) are the main group that has stalled the law. The growers are for the law. Seafood was pushed through by Alaskan fishermen and they have noticed an increase in sales, but the processors say there has not been any increase. Again, sound familiar. It would be a good if the law were applied to all produce including honey, mostly to help domestic industries. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:47:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The Latest Buzz In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, >It would now be appropriate for the authors of the Science Report to issue >a retraction of the claims linking CCD to importation of Australian bees. - >DENIS ANDERSON & IAIN J. EAST Having authored the only series of articles on the Australian import and most likely the most informed U.S. beekeeper on the subject (other than Danny Weaver) I should comment. If the Science article had simply said the Australian import *could* possibly have been the source of IAPV but further research was needed to confirm then none of us would have had a problem with the article. Instead I believe (from memory) the article says IAPV came in with the import over ten times. >> Anderson and East suggest that CCD is an ambiguous disorder consistent >> with normal winter losses. I have never spoke with Anderson directly but several of those which have have carried my questions to ask Anderson . Denis has never had an answer to us about what he thought might have been at the root of CCD. The above kind of surprises me. However Anderson is considered by most of the beekeeping community to be the worlds foremost bee virologist. Virus is his specialty. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:04:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD team & imidacloprid In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, > "Pesticides can't be an explanation for why organic beekeepers are losing > their colonies," Berenbaum says. I have never heard of Berenbaum but being an organic beekeeper ( I think he is painting U.S. organic beekeepers with a broad brush) will not protect the organic beekeepers bees from being harmed by a systemic pesticide. It is true from my knowledge that the vast amounts of problems happened in row crop areas. Open pasture land hives had few CCD issues (at least in our area). Which is the reason why I plan to move from row crop areas as soon as the summer flow is over. Beekeepers in the boot heel and Mississippi delta areas are reporting in one case not a single bee alive and in others fifty percent losses and the rest weak. Others the best bees in years! After the State meetings in March I will contact Randy Oliver and maybe we can make heads or tails of what's going on. I believe the beekeepers I am talking to are being honest with me. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:23:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: CCD team & imidacloprid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Bob Harrison wrote: >I have never heard of Berenbaum but being an organic beekeeper ( I think he is painting U.S. organic beekeepers with a broad brush) will not protect the organic beekeepers bees from being harmed by a systemic pesticide. It is true from my knowledge that the vast amounts of problems happened in row crop areas. Open pasture land hives had few CCD issues (at least in our area). What she* is referring to is the fact that USDA certified organic honey must come from areas that are free from any pesticide use. Therefore, if you have bees that are not exposed to any pesticides and you still have problems, it isn't due to pesticides. By the way, anyone can call themselves an organic beekeeper. However, there are rules* that must be followed for the honey to be certified organic. *May R. Berenbaum Professor and Department Head Department of Entomology University of Illinois * 6.11.2. Forage. Bees from which organic honey and other products are harvested shall have access to forage produced in accordance with organic standards, provided that the hives are located on certified land and are not within 2 miles of a sanitary landfill, incinerator, power plant, golf course, town or city, crops sprayed with prohibited substances, genetically modified crops, or other sources of contamination, as described in the Organic Livestock Plan approved by the certification agent. The minimum distance may be increased by the certification agent, if deemed necessary, on a case by case basis. from "The Organic Trade Association's American Organic Standards" **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:27:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Re: Bleach in Syrup In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802212123t60de3f87g15ae4fb43351e7b8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know about the success part ,but I've used it ,after Talking with Juanse last summer.We did it differently by feeding it in the syrup.We used a 2% solution and had no adverse affects. We did'nt take the time to get before and after spore counts because of time restraints and getting ready to split,Juanse has facts and figures for his doings.The way I looked at it was it could'nt hurt with hive and bee sanitation at the least ,and wanted to include it in during the late summer operations...for what it's worth. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:42:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit some last sand pounding on Maryam's blog - the lady doing the disapearingbees.com movie she posted some time back, some data from a FL beekeeper who claimed pesticides was killing his bees. he sent some samples to Mary Ann Frazier any guesses on what was by far the most common pair of chems? - i won't rub it in - you can check for yourself if you wish. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:46:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: label laws Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit correct me if I'm wrong but honey is not included in COOL so any changes will not affect honey labeling. if i recall honey and macadamia nuts and a couple of more crops I don't remember were supposed to be included in legislation at the end of the Clinton era. For reasons I never understood our current administration delayed implementation or something along this - can anybody fill in with more info? given all the issues with the bee industry - I can never understand why this has not been corrected- seems this would be a big boost and take the pressure off from almonds...or wait maybe thats a bad idea for almonds? would the almond industry even support COOL for honey given the declining numbers of beeks and colonies? how many would go to CA if honey in a drum was up 30%? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:06:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: The Latest Buzz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Bob Harrison wrote: >Having authored the only series of articles on the Australian import and >most likely the most informed U.S. beekeeper on the subject (other than >Danny Weaver) I should comment. >I believe (from memory) the article says IAPV came in with the import over ten times. Hmm. Better read the article: Bees were analyzed in a metagenomic survey of four, widely separated operations across the USA affected by CCD. All operations were migratory, with wintering yards in either Florida or California in February 2007 [(7), fig. S1]. Two non-CCD samples were collected from Hawaii and Pennsylvania. An additional sample of apparently healthy bees imported from Australia, and four samples of imported royal jelly from China, were also tested as potential sources of pathogens. IAPV was found in all four affected operations sampled, in two of four royal jelly samples and in the Australian sample IAPV was first described in 2004 in Israel where infected bees presented with shivering wings, progressed to paralysis, and then died just outside the hive. All of the CCD operations that were sampled used imported bees from Australia or were intermingled with operations that had done so. Importation to the United States of bees from Australia began in 2004, coinciding with early reports of unusual colony declines. We have not proven a causal relationship between any infectious agent and CCD; nonetheless, the prevalence of IAPV sequences in CCD operations, as well as the temporal and geographic overlap of CCD and the importation of IAPV-infected bees, indicate that IAPV is a significant marker for CCD. And the follow up: Our results show that IAPV in the U.S. predates both the latest incarnation of CCD and the importation of Australian package bees. Nevertheless, we caution that much work is still needed to absolve or implicate this virus, or specific imports, in CCD. Most importantly, experimental studies are ongoing to determine the relative virulence of imported or domestic IAPV strains, and such studies will provide the best evidence for making importation and management choices. Most recently they add: Finally, given work from Anderson describing "Disappearing Disorder," it is not clear that Australia is free of unexplained losses of honey bees. [D. Anderson, Rural Industries Research and Development Council Publication #04/152 (2004)] **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: CCD team & imidacloprid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote: >I have never heard of Berenbaum Dr. Berenbaum is one of the key players in US bee research, and received the following grants (among others) 2004-2007 US Department of Energy, Genomic Regulation of Ecosystem Responses to Elements of Global Change (PI’s alphabetically; Berenbaum, Bohnert, DeLucia, Fitzhugh, Long, Ort). $2,984,356 2006 California State Beekeepers’ Association "Novel approaches to managing fluvalinate resistance in Varroa destructor through specific inhibitors of insecticide-metabolizing enzymes," $10,900 2007 USDA Critical Research Initiative, Colony Collapse Disorder (S. Ratcliffe PI, w/ Gene Robinson), $60,000 2007-2010 USDA NRI: Toxicogenomics of Apis mellifera (w/ M.A. Schuler), $340,000 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:43:31 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > any guesses on what was by far the most common pair of chems? - Fluvalinate & amatraz the two most widely used varroa mitacides in the WORLD. In the 1987 book "The varroa Handbook" which listed the top 100 chemicals which were known at the time to control varroa those were the two deemed the safest as far as honey contamination and safe for the bees. Both had been in use for a few decades before then. If your hypothesis was true Brian then why are millions of hives around the world doing just fine on comb which has those levels of those chems? Randy Oliver and I have pondered the question and it seems to me that bees can tolerate a very high PPM of those chems. Also what I was told by Beltsville. Not keeping control of varroa and not keeping a handle on nosema has killed far more hives in the U.S. over the last decade than comb contamination from fluvalinate than amatraz. If you had been with me the last decade looking over my shoulder you would believe the same but you have not so we will have to agree to disagree! the beekeeper which you speak of main mistake was not to contact me first instead of Beltsville. When we did speak Beltsville was his source of information. I would have set the test up very different than they did. Not a single control hive on foundation! I believe he has a comb problem but also believe its caused by something other than the high levels of fluvalinate and amatraz found in his comb. When he said he was going to radiate his comb (asked me if I wanted some comb done) i advised to do as BELL Honey had done and replace comb. He chose to listen to Beltsville. Bell Honey burned comb in Florida (with permits) for two months solid. Three and a half million frames . Now he is back to square one as the money spent to radiate the comb seems now (at least to me ) a waste. If he had torched the inside of those boxes and started on new foundation those package bees I believe he would not be having the problem. I have never been attached to old dark 30 year old comb but I have got friends which will not replace comb. In spring in Texas you can warm yourself by the frame bon fires of Darrel Ruford and other large operators. I do not have frames of comb on which fluvalinate of coumaphos have been used and the bees look great. However I can take a ride across town and show you hives of bees which look as good as mine and the beekeeper has only used chemical strips for the last two decades. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:06:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My friend Bob wrote: >Not keeping control of varroa and not keeping a handle on nosema has killed >far more hives in the U.S. over the last decade than comb contamination Amen. In my opinion, this is the most likely cause of massive colony collapse. The bee population in US and Europe has been weakened for decades by these parasites & infections. It is a miracle that bees have survived at all. The amazing power of nature and its ability to renew itself! Regardless of how some people might have taken my input over the last few weeks, I am not a blind supporter of the current state of modern agriculture. I think we have to move *forward* to a better system, and in my view there are many signs that is happening. Finally, it is nature that sustains us. We can't do a single thing without her and the notion that we have conquered her, or even could, is comical. The blood coursing through my veins reminds me everyday how tenuous our hold on life is. But the buds on the maple trees hint at another spring. My best to you all. Pete **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:18:44 -0600 Reply-To: davehamilton@alltel.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DaveHamilton Subject: Re: CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) In-Reply-To: <4B7494276C294DF2940F7097CFFAC885@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pretty good CCD read on wired.com Dave **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:51:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: The Latest Buzz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:59:47 -0500, Peter L. Borst wrote: >www.sciencemag.org >> Anderson and East suggest that CCD is an ambiguous disorder consistent with normal winter losses. We do not agree. CCD is characterized by a rapid loss of adult bees; excess brood, in all stages, here in the heartland of US beekeeping, both Mn and Nodak state apiarist's issued reports in fall of 2007 stating no CCD verified here. but nobody ever updated that CCD map, its still colored out the last time I looked for MN and Nodak. how's that for ambiguous? in these northern states most migratory beeks leave and go south or to CA. so anyone with CCD claims from these states in winter/spring would have to be stationary right? my guess is when the wrappings come off this spring of 2008 after 4 months of REAL winter with little snow up here but 21 evenings below zero so far and lots of wind, that the "apparent" CCD reports will start up all over again in the local media up here and all over the northern regions. now how could that be? ...did maybe numerous beekeepers wrap hives last fall that had no worker population or what? or maybe the worker bees all left the hive in subzero weather? so we're saying that the worker bees vacated a broodless hive in winter and in spring they had brood and a queen left with a few workers. ok to me this just blows the whole idea of CCD affecting stationary beeks in the NORTH during dec- march . either they had a loss in fall and then either left the state or wrapped what's left. all spring reports of CCD then in northern states are suspect and likely not diagnosed correctly. the realistic CCD reports I've seen in ABJ, BC, etc and described online have never suggested that this phenomenon occurs in subfreezing winter conditions. so in my mind any NORTHERN STATIONARY beeks claims of CCD between Dec 1st and say mid March would appear potentially bogus to me. my theory is that this "noise" from northern stationary beeks has made the whole CCD issue that much more confusing to the public, other beekeepers and perhaps researchers (my thoughts do not insinuate that CCD has not been a crisis to the beekeepers who have really experienced a loss from this malady or other unexplained losses, I'm merely reflecting on the difficulty its been to try and even figure out how widespread CCD actually is) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:56:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:43:31 -0600, Bob Harrison wrote: > >If your hypothesis was true Brian then why are millions of hives around the >world doing just fine on comb which has those levels of those chems? > > Randy Oliver and I have pondered the question and it seems to me that bees >can tolerate a very high PPM of those chems. i thought we had a world wide crisis in honeybee health? what does doing fine mean? one answer may lie in a tipping point kind of explanation. since around 2004 the two widely used strips stopped working and the jug mixes around here became the norm (pre-apiguard). I do feel for the beeks who have had a hard time keeping their bees alive and I'm sure they believed it was their only choice. using unlabelled chem applications in a hive is hard to justify when science can only do so much to insure chems are safe, then turn around and blame farm chems for your ills? all this science is an educated guess at some point in time. time goes forward and new information emerges. but maybe we can agree keeping ALL chems out of hives is the best way forward! i have found human nature in dealing with pesticides figures if some chemical worked more must be better. some migratory beeks have issues with big mite loads on CA almond hives that come back. some treat twice a season. i would postulate that chem use frequency and rate has changed since 2000 or so as almonds have become king cash for cash flow. the financial squeeze on beeks has also increased during this time. strips are expensive and must be removed. jug mix is cheap and the rag/cardboard does not have to be removed. its a simple business descision. the cost of fines are still below the cost of approved EPA treatments for a large operation. the system is BROKE!!!!! times are changing and the honeybees are in trouble, we have a couple of better choices now for legal mite treatments and more and more resistant bee lines to work with. i find it disingenuous for beeks to point to Ag chems when over and over again we find massive contamination levels in brood comb and beekeeper applied chems top the list for ppb. as some of our parents told us as kids - clean up your own act before pointing to others! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 15:59:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Honey Gets New Life in Medical Field MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: Honey Gets New Life in Medical Field By Kerri-Lee Halkett, Fox 29 (USA), 2/21/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/02/video-honey-gets-new-life-in-medical.html An ancient remedy gets a new life in the medical field. Medicinal honey is doing wonders for some wound and burn victims. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:23:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: 1828 - Madame Huber Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, I wanted to share a wonderful historical bee article from the United Kingdom, published in the Times, London, Middlesex. October 22, 1828 It reveals a side of Huber to my knowledge not widely known. It is a wonderfully moving love story, between Huber and his wife. And besides an expression of deep love and devotion between them, it can lead one rethink; who were the eyes of Huber?,,,was it Francis Burnens? or perhaps someone else? If another person was contributing to Hubers “observations“, might this knowledge have been suppressed in Hubers publications, in pursuant with the thinking at the time? Hope you enjoy it! A PDF file of the original publication can be found at: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ In the folder: ‘Historical Bee Articles 1800 - 1849 Under the file name: ‘1828 - Madame Huber’ The Times Wednesday, October 22, 1828 London, Middlesex =====Article Start==== 1828 - Madame Huber The following anecdote of Huber, the celebrated naturalist, appears in the Memories sur Josephine, the first volume of which has just been published by Mr. Colbum. M. Huber's work on the natural history of bees is well known in this country, but we believe it is little known that his observations relative to the habits of this insect were made through the medium of his wife, at a time when he was totally blind :—" We frequently visited," says the authoress, “an interesting and remarkable man, M. Huber, nephew of the friend of Voltaire. He had been blind since the age of 17. At that period he fell in love with a rich young lady, who returned his affections, but their parents opposed their union, and they were separated. A few months afterwards he was afflicted with gutta serena. which deprived him entirely of sight, which he regretted the more because he was unable to see the object of his affection, he was sent to Paris with the hope that a cure might be effected, but he obtained no relief, and returned in despair to Geneva. Mademoiselle Lullia having been made acquainted with his misfortune, declared to her parents that although she would readily submit to their will if the man of her choice could have done without her, yet, as he now required a person to be always with him, nothing should prevent her being united to him. Her parents became more obstinate than ever in withholding their consent; but when she became of age, she, after having refused several brilliant offers, married the person for whom she had formed a disinterested affection and their mutual conduct soon obtained for them pardon for their disobedience. This excellent woman discovered a thousand means of assuming the sad position of her husband. During the war she composed whole armies, with pins, of various sizes, and thus enabled him to distinguish the position of the different corps. She also invented for him a plan, by which he was enabled to write, and also formed plans en relief of their residence: in a word, she had but one occupation—that of making the life of her husband happy. To such a point did this amiable woman carry her attentions, that M. Huber asserted, that a restoration to sight was no longer desirable. “ I should not know,” said he, “to what extent a person could be beloved: besides, to me my wife is always young, fresh, and pretty." M. Huber had a great taste far natural history. He had read to him a great number of work, on this subject, and particularly relative to bees, of which he was very fond. He discovered that all the works which treated on that subject were very imperfect. He requested Madame Huber to provide herself with a glass, and to examine carefully the formation and habits of the bee. With her assistance he made several discoveries. which he published under the title of Recherches sur les Abeilles, a work which is very highly spoken of. =====Article End===== Best Wishes, Joe **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:24:50 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Stolen Trailer - UK list members MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My trailer was stolen recently whilst I was on holiday. Description: Ifor Williams L146G twin axle flatbed dropside 14' x 6'6" Serial number: SCK600000T0208900 The floor had recently been replaced and looks like new - brown non-slip = resin surface. The two left-hand dropsides had some cement on their inside surfaces (I = suspect it was owned by a builder before me). Any information gratefully received. Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:48:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard Rogers Subject: History of beekeeping in Nova Scotia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I needed a distraction so I played with a video I made back in 2000. It is called "Beekeeping in Transition" and is a very brief history of beekeeping in Nova Scotia since 1897. It includes an interview with the late G.G. Smeltzer who many of you may be familiar with. You can find the video in three parts at video.google.com/. Search for "beekeeping in transition" and all three parts should appear in the found set. Please feel free to comment and rate the videos. Dick Rogers Consulting Entomologist / Apiculturist Wildwood Labs Inc **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:01:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Ian_Steppler?= Subject: Re: Bee Losses in California? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So I have also heard that some losses in the almond groves have symtoms associated with the CCD losses of last year. And the losses are growing. Any thought on how wide spread CCD is in California? Are the same guys getting hit again, or is it kicking them randomly again? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:36:17 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Bee Losses in California? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Any thought on how wide spread CCD is in California? Simple question, difficult to answer. First, it's hard to diagnose CCD positively, especially at different times of the year. There are lots of losses. I just heard of large numbers of semiloads going back full of deadouts. But there are often large losses, ever since fluvalinate stopped working well, and any time we have dry summers prior. Some losses don't require a PhD to figure out. However, there are also some unexpected/unexplained losses. You also gotta realize that some operators will never admit that they have a problem. Some have a preventable problem, but would rather blame it on CCD. Losing 1000 colonies at $150 each hurts. Some have lost several times that many. It hurts me to hear about it. It hurts to imagine truckloads of boxes going back at a loss. It hurts to imagine any beeekeeper working all year, only to have his dreams of profit disappear into thin air. Almond pollination these days is not for the casual operator--keeping colonies healthy is serious business. Yes, some of the same guys, some new. Also lots of very good bees in Calif. It's raining until tomorrow. The bloom will begin in earnest this week. At that point, the rubber hits the road, and rumors and promises hit reality. You will then be able to read about it in the paper. My sincerest condolences to those hurting. Randy Oliver Reality, California **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 01:29:19 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: More news from France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.notre-planete.info/actualites/lireactus.php?id=1571 -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:28:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maryam Henein Subject: Re: More news from France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know if there is a proper translation but this is my attempt: Since the mid 80s there has been significant bee losses which have = reached a world scale. There was study conducted between 2002-2005 on = 120 colonies. The hives belonged to 24 French Beeks. The study took into = consideration many variables including: population levels, sanitary = conditions, pesticides present in the hive, agricultural practices = within 1.5 km diameter. Some ( I didn't translate all of them) results:=20 Amongst seven diseases , anomolies and pathogens looked for, six were = found present in the hives. Varroa played a big factor They also found = imadocloprids, and acide 6-chloroncotinique (anyone? I has the word = nicotine in it), in the pollen. Fipronil is also mentioned. Surprisingly (my own word), no statistic correlations was evidenced = between pesticide residues and bee population (adult and larvae).=20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:38:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bud Dingler Subject: Early Spring Reports Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I live in the upper midwest and had poor over winter success last year with 35%-%40 winter losses with lots of dysentery . This year winter is much colder and longer but looks like a 90% survival is shaping up. The only thing I did different was use fumidil. I wrapped 300 hives last fall. How are other beekeepers faring this winter? I recall the media reported large winter losses last year in the NE region, New York, Ohio, Ontario and Pennsylvania etc. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:43:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: 1828 - Madame Huber In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > It is a wonderfully moving love story, between Huber and his wife. Thanks for this, Joe. Made my day! Great science and a touching love story to boot--it just doesn't get any better than that : ) Especially touching since due to the times, the servant Francis Burnens got the credit due to the wonderful lady. Randy Oliver Feeling all warm inside **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:02:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > >Not keeping control of varroa and not keeping a handle on nosema has killed > >far more hives in the U.S. over the last decade than comb contamination Sounds like Bob, Pete and I are all smoking the same stuff, since I'll agree if you add poor nutrition due to drought, etc. Randy Oliver Listening to wet, windy, cold weather beating up Calif bees. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:26:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Barry_Digman?= Subject: Bat die off Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is news to me. Bats are dying in a manner that has some similarities to the way bees are dying. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/24/MN7GV2KNU.DTL **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:01:13 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: More news from France In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >They also found imadocloprids, and acide 6-chloroncotinique (anyone? It is the penultimate degradation product of imidicloprid, prior to degrading to carbon dioxide. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:33:29 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Winter losses/France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Faucon, J.-P., Mathieu, L., Ribiere, M., Martel, A.-C., Drajnudel, P., Zeggane, S., Aurieres, C and Aubert, M.F.A.(2002) Honey bee winter mortality in France in 1999 and 2000. Bee World 83, 14-23 Quoted summary: "Conclusion: beekeepers should not neglect the impact of diseases in winter losses even if other causes may be present Diseases may or may not have been the original cause of the observed winter losses. The original causes of winter colony deaths may be: $B!|(BWell known causes such as starvation due to mismanagement of colonies, severe winter weather, foulbrood or other weakening diseases that may have been latent before winter conditions stressed the colony17,26. $B!|(B The combination of overcrowding colonies on single-crop fields providing unbalanced and deficient nutrients in a multi-residue environment43. $B!|(B Any new chemical that may be suspected to induce a delayed action on foraging behaviour. Whatever may be their original main causes, winter losses are often accompanied by very aggressive pathogens whose impact cannot be neglected. Because these pathogens are well identified, preventive measures and specific treatments must be applied. Even for V. destructor, appropriate treatments significantly increase colony survival 17. Our opinion is that without neglecting any effort for clarifying any possible new emerging cause for winter losses, the application of classical management methods for preventing and treating well-known pathogens remains necessary and beneficial." These words were from 2002. This was just as N. ceranae was showing up (nosema found in 30% of dying colonies), but no one knew at that time. They did not perform specific tests for DWV or KBV/IAPV. The authors discussed the variety of ineffective treatments that beekeepers were using to control varroa, etc. Does this scenario sound familiar to anyone else? Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:44:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: migratory beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >From the same issue of Bee World. Beehives of the Aegean Islands THANASSIS BIKOS AND EKATERINI RAMMOU Bee World 83 Ancient beekeeping on the Aegean island of Ios, using clay hives with handles, to move from the thyme crop to the heather crop each year. "Hives were taken to large migratory apiaries by boat, but to the small apiaries by donkey or mule, or on the beekeeper's shoulder. Normally a beekeeper would carry two hives, one in the hand and the other on the shoulder; he would walk for four or five hours on average." Perhaps when the price of diesel gets too high, those East Coast beekeepers who are hauling bees to California almonds can hire caravans of packers! I'm sure that it would be quite a sight, and certain to make the evening news. Randy Oliver Dreaming of the good old days **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:39:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by jsa.cmhf@JUNO.COM to the BEE-L = list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. To amesfarm@HOTMAIL.COM Cathy Rufer forwarded the message at the bottom to me; from the heading it appears that you wrote it. I'm just a bit curious where you are = coming from. I am concerned, frustrated, upset that you believe beekeepers are responsible for all problems. I am one of the 'dirty' CCD/PPB beekeepers that the CCD working group sampled several times. After a bit over a year, I have my Penn State/CCD working group pesticide results back... Excerpted from that report..."Three colonies had wax residues tested;=20 One strong, one dead, and one package. More wax analysis is likely to commence shortly". BoscalidChlorpyrifosCoumaphosCoumaphos oxonCyprodinilFluvalinate Strong53118,6001641711,500 Dead001,340780861 Package002,9400062 =20 "The levels detected in these samples were by and large lower and had fewer chemicals detected than other persons sampled" >From the numbers without additional information it would certainly = appear the "beekeeper applied" pesticides are damming. What was not asked and significantly muddies the water is how the "beekeeper applied = pesticides" were applied. There is no information collected whether the chemicals levels are in the hives because of legal uses of approved chemicals or whether they are from beekeeper brews. I can't speak for others, but in my case, I applied using the 'expensive' legal treatments. In the case = of coumophous, at 1/2 the label rate, ie. one strip instead of two. I = ALWAYS removed the strips as soon as practical after completion of application which sometimes got to be around 60 days. What is really interesting to me is that Minnesota Department of Ag had tested my equipment for coumophous in 2002 trying to explain that I was killing my bees instead of the (to use your word) "massive" amounts of Sevin XLR Plus being applied to hybrid poplar plantations adjacent to my beeyards. The MDA samples were taken in the fall with coumophous strips recently placed in the hives. Quoted from MDA report "On January 28, 2003 the MDA = laboratory returned the results of the sample analyses with detections of .50 mg/kg coumophous in bee pollen, 1 .00 mg/kg coumophous in dead bees and 9.10 mg/kg coumophous in propolus" Converting to ppb it would be 500 ppb in bee pollen, 1000 ppb in dead bees, and 9100 ppb in propolus. Could you please explain something to me... The last time coumophous has been used in my hives was 2003. How is it that after close to 5 years my levels have doubled? It must be something that an errant beekeepers is doing. =20 So the question needs to be asked, who is truly responsible for = excessive levels, the beekeepers, or Bayer? Coumophous was presented as 'safe' if used by label directions. Bayer had to know from previous experience in Europe that residues would build. How about discussing whether or not Bayer knew this would happen, and if perhaps they allowed it on purpose to cover for a release of a chemical that they manufacturer and could = not sell in Europe due to beekeeper outrage at it's effects. Is it possible that adding it to different carriers alters the expression in the detection machines. Maybe the NOEL is being done when bees metabolism's are revved and not when they are dormant. As many know Bayer has cut the NOEL from the 100 plus ppb to near 10. So what is the true number? Who = is doing the observations? Do 'they' really know what 'abnormal' behavior is? Maybe 'true' NOEL levels go below instrumental detection capabilities. It seems that high bee mortality is tied to colony metabolism. Changing channels; Instead of 'internal' beekeeper mudslinging it might be time to consider that perhaps some 'new chemical' can't be found by the 'normal' analysis, and that perhaps they be part of this CCD = mystery. Here is a telling quote from American Association of Pesticide Control Officers (AAPCO) "Last year we made a formal comment that became an action item in the December 2001 SFIREG minutes-The point was that the EPA is continuing to register compounds with chemistries & application rates that push the limits of the State laboratories capabilities to analyze for these active ingredients and their significant degredates in various mantices. Chris Mason attended the IUPAC pesticide congress in Basel,Switzerland in August, and the increasing range and diversity of large molecules as future active ingredients continues. As co-regulators with the EPA we asked that the EPA acknowledge (and thereafter financially support) the fact that many new active ingredients challenge the current capabilities of SLA labs. Without this support future monitoring and misuse actions are seriously in peril and may not be achievable with current technologies."=20 Aren't we all glad that EPA stepped to the plate and only allowed registration of chemicals which can be detected by chemical analysis. = YEA RIGHT! The 'new' nicotine based chemical class was first allowed use in 2002 without accurate analysis.=20 Another channel... I want to add a bit of additional information to your paragraph,=20 "Really the stories and annual enforcement actions in the Dakotas and MN are painting a clear picture up in the heartland of beekeeping that blue shop rags and bulk use of fluvalinate, amitraz and coumophos is the norm".=20 I am quite familiar with Minnesota as I am based there. My local representative has made inquires as to why the Minnesota Department of = Ag is targeting beekeepers for pesticide violations, but ignoring other violators. In Minnesota fines for perceived violations by beekeepers generally run $5,000 to $16,000 (2 or 3 beekeepers a year). Who is talking about or defending the other 467 Minnesota beekeepers (we have about 470) that may have been searched but nothing inappropriate found? Fines for improper applications by farmer or spray applicator (if you = can even get the MDA to write one) are generally $100 and are waived if the farmer agrees to be more careful next time. In my local County, 2 = farmers a year are 'randomly investigated. In that same County in 2006, 5 of the 6 commercial beekeepers were 'randomly' investigated. An aside... of = the thousands of hives of mine that got killed by off label Sevin XLR Plus spraying, not one violation was written. Beekeepers are the only violators! In Minnesota the real issue is that the MDA wants to keep beekeepers silent. Most of the world doesn't know this, but in Minnesota spray application records are private/nonpublic. Records were closed because the State of Minnesota had to indemnify beekeepers for losses during grasshopper spraying in the 70's. By closing records pesticide labels could be broke with little possibility of beekeeper complaints. Only MDA has access to spray application records. If an incident occurs and a doctor needs to know what material got sprayed they have to make a request MDA for that information. MDA, if they feel like it, will ask = the farmer or applicator what was sprayed and when. When the system works perfectly a Doctor may get the needed information within a couple of days. The last couple of years there has been a push by regular = citizens to legislatively re open records. MDA is making an example of beekeepers as bad pesticide violators to keep them out of this discussion. =20 So what is my point? =20 Your discussion ticked me off and I thought that a bit more information might put a bit different spin in at least some peoples minds. Jeff Anderson California Minnesota Honey Farms **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:48:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Sunken Galleon Holds Treasure of Beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sunken Galleon Holds Treasure of Beeswax An Unexpected Treasure But the Gold Beach find is not gold; it's part of a galleon's beeswax cargo, rich only in history By Paul Fattig, Mail Tribune (USA), 2/25/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/02/sunken-galleon-holds-treasure-of.html GOLD BEACH - It was the luminescent glow that caught Loretta LeGuee's attention. "The sun was shining through it - it kind of looked like a huge egg," said the Gold Beach resident who has been combing the local beach each morning for years. The oval-shaped amber object resting on the storm-tossed log early that December morning was no egg. Experts believe it's a chunk of beeswax from a Spanish trading vessel that sank off the coast of what is now Oregon more than 300 years ago... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:24:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: 60 minutes program Sunday night In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802250633q12aeaf9bk3497c5ec318ca0f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-2022-JP"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I am in the process of getting my operation up an running after a long winter. Pumping feed to hives needing feed ( looking at around a 6% loss but still have yards to check) and was up until 4 AM Saturday night pumping drums of honey into bottling tanks. I will as time permits comment on a few of the excellent posts posted the last couple days. The following can't wait. I am sure many on BEE-L watched the program on Dave Hackenberg. Although I did not contact Dave while I was in Florida I did sit down with one of Dave's closet commercial beekeeper friends which talks to Dave all the time and got an update. The points I picked up from the program which were different than the first 60 minutes program were subtle and are part of the baby steps the industry is taking to find a cause of the die offs. My analysis of the program information which only a commercial beekeeper might pick up: 1. Dave's bees did OK in spring and into Blueberries. No sprays hurting bees are used in the Blueberries. Are you with me? The same scenario happened in the CCD year. 2. Dave moves into crop pollination in areas of row crops (pumpkins ) and in late fall until present hives start crashing. The program said over half Dave's bees are dead again. I actually have heard 2/3 but lets go with the program info. The point which shows Dave suspects the area which is causing his problems comes out when the pumpkin in grower says he was willing to pay twice the fee he paid (the year of CCD) to get Dave's bees. The grower tells 60 minutes he could grow pumpkins without bees but would not make a profit. The question is: Will Dave return to the pollination areas next year after seeing his hives crash two years in a row? I think not but again we are only doing an analysis done by Bob Harrison from the outside looking at the problem. However advising commercial beekeepers is what I am known for doing. The program also points a finger at Bayer and imidacloprid. *if* ( please indulge me for a minute Brian!) beekeepers doing pollination look at the areas they go to and then the crash comes then the obvious solution ( at least for the immediate future) is to avoid those areas. Consider: The commercial beekeeper network ( I call grapevine) is extensive and uses phone lines. I use up a phone card a month plus my cell phone. For the most part we do not use the bee lists. Too slow of making contact. The phone is faster. Would you take a couple thousand of your hives into the fields Dave feels caused Dave several hundred thousand of dollars of losses two years in a row? I would not! Some ( mostly researchers) say Dave is barking up the wrong tree with his thinking neonicotinoids are at the root of the problem. Mostly because without the dead bees to examine how can you point the finger in a direction. However most doing pollination are going to look at the fact that seeing the same problem occur twice is a strong indication doing pollination in those areas is presenting a problem. Some on this list pointed to maybe varroa & nosema were the issue the CCD year. I can say for sure they were not this year and suspect they were only a minor part of the problem in the CCD year. Consider: *if* ( my hypothesis) the neonicotinoids are at the route of *some *of the die offs then there is nothing to research. Take the research funds and try to stop or limit the neonictinoid use. As beekeepers we do not want to spend millions of dollars and then all get a book published by the USDA-ARS with a title like this: " Living with the neonicotinoids" or " how to limit your losses from neonicotinoids as new neonicotinoids come on the market almost Dailey" " In the first decade of the new millennium,there may be just 20% of the people keeping bees as were in the 1970's when I supported beekeepers new and established" ( Taken from pg. 9 of the 2007 publication " Increase Essentials" by Dr. Larry Conner. Honey (all grades) have been mostly running over a dollar and reports are in the buck twenty range right now. You can make money in wholesale honey in drums with those prices. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:02:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: 60 minutes In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802250644j5f383878j5b1a858c5207ecf1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting that at the end of Sunday's 60 minutes piece on disappearing honeybees, Dave Hackenburg was quoted that he has lost half of his bees so far, in Almonds. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:04:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jeff & All, You go Cathy & Jeff! We need to wake up the industry. Like you both I have seen the testing results and see little action is being taken to rein in chemical companies. Thanks for coimng forward. My first article on the neonictinoids will be in the April American Bee Journal Takes three months from the day I write till publication. ABJ knew the article was coming and held a place but still publication takes time. Remember this is only step one. Bayer is only refered to and not named. The first article is like "neonicotinoids 101". Future articles might be like what Jeff Anderson and Cathy Ruffer sent! I would like to have quoted some of my sources word for word but almost all declined as they have seen the chemical companies threaten to pull their funding if they helped to indicate the neonicotinoids in the bee die offs. FACT! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:04:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] CCD team & pesticides ( edit version) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:39:11 -0500, Aaron Morris wrote: >This message was originally submitted by jsa.cmhf@JUNO.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. >So what is my point? >Your discussion ticked me off and I thought that a bit more information >might put a bit different spin in at least some peoples minds. >Jeff Anderson >California Minnesota Honey Farms Jeff First let me say I am familiar with your name and your experiences with MDA etc and your appearance in Pollen Nation. More publicity should have been focused on the unethical behaviour of an agency(s) which is supposed to protect the environment, farmers and public. We could have long discussion about that whole issue itself. Its also clear that retribution has been the game since your successful court cases (frequent enforcement, Blaine White state apiarist moved to the back 40, etc) Thank you for sharing your data from Penn state and frank discussion. Not many beekeepers would share that kind of information and it takes some courage. I worked at a large Fortune 500 chemical company lab for 12 years in a research position. My first reaction to your data is the lack of data points. A sample of one from each "condition" is not much of a data point. to compare samples from today to years past is difficult unless you have an average ppb from a sample of 10-25 hives from both time periods and the same test equipment and technique. there's just too much variation in people, nature and in a bee hive to look at one hive and tell anything much less try and correlate that with alive or dead or whatever. That could explain why the data makes no sense to you the end user. My discussion with Bob Harrison concerned his railling on Imidacloprid and his selective use of Kim Flottums mini-report from the CCD team. Bob completely ommited the mention of beekeeper chems twice in my discussion with him. While I count on my bees for a living, my background in science and research training tells me that the evidence on Imidacloprid is amazingly scant. I'm no fan of Bayer or Monsanto either but its just not there! When I put my science cap on I try to look at the data and not pick sides etc. I want the answers as bad as you or the next guy. After working for a large chemical company I have a different opinion seeing the other side. Conspiracy theories of secret molecules and an intent to circumnavigate the system and potentially do harm to honeybees just is hard for me to swallow. You can't hide much in our digital world. If this were the case the secrets would leak out. Most people are good ethical people....especially those committed to a life in science. I believe its disingenuous for the industry to point the finger at Imidacloprid when we have little evidence but plenty of documented chemical use internal to the industry. What is ABF or anyone doing to minimize beekeeper chem use? some packers have raised internal specs for some of these materials. you know as well as I that bulk jug use has exploded since 2000. its a problem that should be solved for many reasons. its crazy really - good people are being punished, some of them my friends - it threatens the whole industry if splashed in the media. I and some beekeepers i know in the upper midwest and Canada do not pollinate, we rotate out comb, never use TM or tylosin (shake and bake all EFB and AFB) do not use any mite treatments that build up in wax. We have not had any unexplained losses either and we're not the only ones that have the same experience or with big honey crops and hives boiling over with bees. I'm not saying we're the perfect beekeepers and we have all the answers. We're just average joe's like you trying to keep bees for a living but have rejected the old way of doing things as they did not work anymore. I don't care if EPA registered fluvalinate or comophous for use in a beehive. Go look at Jeff Pettis's work or others on the effects of those two chems on reproductive problems with queens and drones. I can't get any decent queens anymore from CA producers and I'm fairly certian I know the reason why after visiting some of them in CA. Its comb contamination to blame for 40-50% superscedure and its supported by the research. Since I started raising my own queens or paying extra for queens from smaller producers who comprehend the problem with those two chems, my bees look the best I have seen since the 1990's While we do not have defiinitive answers on Imidacloprid , I cant say we know everything there is to know about fluvalinate and compouphos either and who is looking? the bottom line is those materials are obsolete in many peoples minds . As a nationally visible bee researcher who I'll leave unnamed would likely say - don't put that stuff in your hives! CCD looks to be a difficult problem to answer - there is a chance we'll never find out the cause since for every real CCD case is a "me too CCD case" and there are from my stand point way too many variables to make sense of anything. I feel we have little to go on with Imidacloprid, what we do have control over is what we put into our hives and where we keep them . Blaming external issues while we have a messy house ourselves is a tough one for me to swallow and I'm not alone as I get fan mail for my views in addition to very few unfavorable. I beleive if the industry is waiting for a "cure" for CCD or to see Imidaclpoprid delisted is not a game plan for success. We have bees now ( russian, VSH, purvis, others) that can be run with no treatments, I know it because I'm running some with success and so are more and more beekeepers each year. We also have soft treatments like apiguard, formic and OA (not legal) that do not contaminate comb. Have you tried to keep say 10 pallets of resistant bees (well mated) on clean ( or new) comb away from pollination and untreated? It might be a good experiment to satisfy your own concerns about systemics and farm inputs. If they do well move them into Ag areas or pollination and see if they change. My point is there are plenty of unknowns here in the equation and no end in site as agriculture looks more and more like industry not farming. Beekeepers have always been an independent tough breed that solved their own problems, I don't see anyone 100% solving our biggest problems really - its in our own hands to mitigate the situation and I feel it demands a change in practices. My view is focus on the variables we can control, cause I have no faith in mega companies or the government to solve or mitigate our problems. I'm sorry if you felt offended by my comments that were directed to Bob in the context of a dfferent discussion. I feel I am trying to do what's best for my passion, my proffession, beekeeping which seems to be in deep trouble. We may have more in common then first impressions. I do not beleive my posts online have said that beekeepers are the cause of all the losses either although Bob may have taken it that way. This should not be a blame game in either direction. I'm saying lets have a frank discussion on the issues of comb contamination and habitual chem use in the industry as part of the overall bee crisis discussion. While you may apply treatments per label many do not. Have you stopped to think about how the chems on the PPB diagnosis list were likely applied per label while much of the amitaz, comouphos and fluvalinate are not? With all of the attention on bees the stories of off label or labelled uses is going to seep into the mainstream. What happens if the CCD researchers find a combination of problems that include self contamination? What a horror show for all of us big and small as those stories get big time air play now and are rarely accurate. Finally I feel it will be a lost opportnity if all the new monies for bee research does not include some kind of " Best Practices" methodology that is promoted by ABF, AHPA , USDA and other leaders in the industry. Best practices should not include anything but soft chem use and no preventative antibiotics either or seasonal depopulations. Even if its a slogan at first, this kind of stance could be critical if the mainstream media starts publishing stories on beekeeper chem use or we are in public battle with Bayer and they point to certain beekeeper practices. Also for other beekeepers it becomes a mantra for what we stand for and keeps us in good favor with the Greens/Granolas who already support us in theory and are concerned about bees. Big companies point to that kind of PR too when being challenged - its just good business sense and I don't see the US honey industry doing anything to protect their rear end. What do we stand for ? habitually using chems in our own hives? Also within the context of what we can control why is not country of origin labeling being pushed? With the beef problem and crap from China, honey could be caught up in the hysteria next. Beekeepers deserve a fair price for our products and the consumer deserves to know where their honey came from . If that could be accomplished I would think made in USA honey could sell at a premium and it should its better honey. I've offered in good faith, ideas of where to go next for the industry. Fixating on presently unsubstantiated claims concerning farm chem use is IMO wasting precious time. Do you really believe that if Imidicloprid went away tomorrow that all would be well in the heartland and we could go on contaminating comb for another 2 decades? What solutions do you have for fixing the crisis in honeybees and stabilizing the pollination and honey industry that many folks count on to make a living? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:19:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kevin Roberts Subject: Re: Sunken Galleon Holds Treasure of Beeswax In-Reply-To: <20080225084824.84d281a5f2f7df0ef38485a84124037d.2b71cd1a71.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Sunken Galleon Holds Treasure of Beeswax It would be interesting to compare pollen varieties and ratios out of this stuff with modern beeswax samples. Kevin _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:09:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: 60 minutes In-Reply-To: <47C2F48A.2080503@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The report from Hackenburg was from California and Almonds, so I have some difficulty matching that with any pumpkin pollination and pesticide contact. Maybe someone can clarify that, but I re-watched the end of the program and the report was as of right now for his bees in Almonds. So when were the bees lost? If they were lost last year, I would have hoped that the researchers could have identified the problem, since Hackenburg's bees are the poster children for eastern US CCD. If they were lost during transit and at Almonds, then it certainly is not Imid.. As far as Imid being implicated, that was directly from Hackenburg. Most all the others who were interviewed were much more circumspect. Pettis said it could be a bunch of things and that Imid was not found in many CCD hives. Also, I would be careful with any direct coupling of pumpkin pollination with Imid and colony die-off especially since Imid would not be a pesticide of choice for pumpkin fields. The program did not make that leap. That implication could be actionable by the grower, since he is blamed for doing something (applying Imid) when he probably has not. The grower actually came off well since he was willing to pay top dollar for pollination and recognized the importance of bees. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:29:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Small cell In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802250644j5f383878j5b1a858c5207ecf1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have there been any good scientific studies of small cell recently? All the older ones I have seen have been all over the board, especially when done by advocates. Also, are there any small cell queen suppliers (just curious). I would think that there would be a market, but only if small cell has been accepted by enough beekeepers so there is a market. There is a market for foundation. It was interesting reading about Randy's small cell experiments. I am running my own and so far have mixed results. My 4.9 colony died off fairly quickly last winter, probably from Tracheal, not Varroa. The colony on 5.1 has done well, but we shall see come spring. Neither was treated for Varroa (OA), but I did treat the 5.1 for Tracheal (Crisco) this fall, something I have not done for many years. The 4.9 colony was always fairly weak compared to the 5.1 and both came from the same stock. Hard to gain any hard info from that, but it does give me pause here in Maine. I have overwintered on 5.0, so do not see what the difference would do to the bees. And, as noted, the 5.1 are fine so far. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:35:30 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe carson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for bulk Peppermint oil for my bee yards. There was a good so= urce in Idaho but not any more. Any help in locating US origin oil would b= e appreciated. Dr. Joe Carson Alaska _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.=A0You IM, we g= ive. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=3Dtext_hotmail_join= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:06:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Bat die off MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's interesting. Here in the UK there is a decline in the Noctule bat, a fairly large one that flies in the early evening, sometimes mingling with swifts etc and may actually take honeybees (keeping on topic!). The suspected cause of the dwindling is lack of insect prey as farm insecticides get more efficient. There may actually be poisoning through eating flying beetles that have been eating dung that has come from cattle that have been drenched with an insecticide (may have been a wormer). The food chain is long and complicated and all things are connected. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:01:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill The university of Georgia did a very good study of small cell last = summer. The results were impressive in that mites do prefer the small cell. The results were convincing . I assume this is in agreement with the study = by Randy Oliver. I suggest that you contact Jennifer Berry at UGA tel. 706-769-1736. There are no magic formulas for good bee keeping. Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:05:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <695573E29C1E494E928DDAD3FF1ED21D@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, you must not spend as much as some of us do to try and keep bees alive,which i might add has not been working to good .The best last guess i can find from the state of Florida is it costs a little more than 100 dollars a year to (try) and keep one hive alive. Add that to the state avg of say 85 lbs,and that buck twenty a pound you say you can make money on is not to good.If we were in the good ole days of 200 lb crops of the dakota's ,maybe. The kicker is the retail end is not that far down from when we were getting 1.50 lb wholesale,kind of reminds me of the beating we are getting from big oil. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:15:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Re: 60 minutes In-Reply-To: <47C31255.8080008@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill , since I know David H well ,and spoke with him last night about other things ,I'll try to answer your two unknowns. He has not lost 50 % of the bees in almonds,they look great right now,he lost 50 % during the year of 07 after leaving fl in the spring and making up a couple of thousand from winter 06. He runs pumpkin pollination during the summer after ,apples and blueberry pollination. And he has talked with the pumpkin growers and they do use Imid pesticides.It's used in florida alot for control of white flies while plants are young,not sure at what stage for pumpkins. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:39:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: 60 minutes program In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "If you missed "60 Minutes" you can watch the entire program at this web= site. To view the segment, click on " What's wrong with the bees" Takes awhile to load if you have got a slow internet connection. http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml=20 bob --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:49:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <72241704.3105561203987928096.JavaMail.root@md15.embarq.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "The best last guess i can find from the state of Florida is it costs a lit= tle more than 100 dollars a year to (try) and keep one hive alive." =20 I don't spend a tenth that much to keep hives alive. Granted I am in a dif= ferent part of the country, but all things being equal, my bees are must be= much more tolerent than yours. =20 Jimhttp://www.northernqueens.com/> _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:53:52 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Small cell / Big Cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Carl Webb wrote " ... The results were impressive in that mites do prefer the small cell..." "I assume this is in agreement with the study by Randy Oliver." I am a bit confused here, I tough the whole idea behind small cell was that mites did NOT prefered small cell. Where did I got lost? which study of Randy? This BTW reminds me of an not-on-purpose sort of experiment. I run two types of bees in search for the "perfect hybrid". I have a bunch of italian (Canadian Tabor origin, plus Cordovan) and a bunch of carnics (australian origin). The rest are F1 hybrids. Well two years ago I run out of wax foundations, so I went to the market and bougth what I could find. I found a nice "organic wax" foundation. I bought 500 kilos, that plus the 1000 kilos of the "traditional" foundation I use commonly made my need for that season. I did not measure the size of the cell cause it came from a respectable beek. Well when I placed that "organic foundation" on some of my hybrid colonies I end up mostly with droone brood, but on others the bees build nicely for workers. Intrigued with that "strange behaviour" I measure the cell size and vuala!. My traditional foundation was 5.26 and the organic was 5.88. Now I use that organic foundation to test for the balance of carnic versus italian strain. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:43:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 60 minutes In-Reply-To: <1196333951.3109781203988531543.JavaMail.root@md15.embarq.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, Please go to the website and watch the 12.5 minute video. 60 minutes said the video was made six months before. At the end the commentator says he had just contacted David in California ( i assumed at the joint convention but maybe almonds) and David has reported he again has lost over half his bees. Which was what I was told will I was in Florida by several Florida beekeepers. watch the video! > he has talked with the pumpkin growers and they do use Imid pesticides. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide David. Once the plant is treated then all parts of the plant contain some level of imidacloprid. search the archives using the words imidacloprid and my name and you will learn a great deal about the issue. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:04:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Joel_Klose?= Subject: Re: Small cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was on a panel with Dr. Calderone and Dr. Amann at the local college a couple of weeks back to discuss CCD. In speaking with Dr. Calderone he indicated he was doing some work with HSC. I won't pass along the results he shared in fairness to him. I expect we'll be seeing some additional information in 2009/2010 from Dyce about this. I'm curious about the difference in honey production (noted by Randy Oliver) and if and how HSC impacts foraging. Since we have two vectors for studying this on different sides of the country common results could be validating. As a side note Dr. Calderone will also be doing some work relating to pesticide buildup in comb I think related to the possible impact on CCD. Best Regards, Joel **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:17:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Joe, There are two locations that raise and distill mint oil that I can tell you about. One is in Central Oregon located near Madras, Oregon, the other is the Klamath Basin on the California/Oregon border. Farm advisors in the Central Oregon Research and Extension Center, http://oregonstate.edu/dept/coarc/ (541-475-7107) could help you get some contacts, and the Intermountain Research and Extension Center in Tulelake, CA, (530-667-5117) http://groups.ucanr.org/intermountain/ and the Klamath Basin Research and Extension Center in Klamath Falls, OR, (541-883-7131) http://extension.oregonstate.edu/klamath/index.htm could help locate some contacts here. I, of course, can help you if these fail to do the job... Jim Smith State of Jefferson Tulelake, CA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 00:12:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:49 PM 2/25/2008, you wrote: >"The best last guess i can find from the state of Florida is it costs a little more than 100 dollars a year to (try) and keep one hive alive." > I don't spend a tenth that much to keep hives alive. Can you quote where the $100 figure came from and what it might include. It wouldn't take long for the cost of running a hive to reach $100 if you are including labor, re-queening, periodic comb and equipment replacement, etc. -Tim **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:42:29 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <47C31704.8090700@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Bill Truesdell wrote: > Have there been any good scientific studies of small cell recently? Hi Bill, I assume that you meant other than mine! : ) First, I want to clarify that my trial was with HoneySuperCell frames, which have small cell size, but may also have additional effects. Jennifer Berry has a paper in prep, with small cell wax foundation, in which she found greater varroa levels in the small cell colonies! Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:45:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 60 minutes In-Reply-To: <1196333951.3109781203988531543.JavaMail.root@md15.embarq.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello David A. & All, David A. said: > He has not lost 50 % of the bees in almonds,they look great right now,he > lost 50 % during the year of 07 after leaving fl in the spring I spoke with David at the ABF convention in Austin, Texas and he told me he lost a higher number than 50% during 2007 and what was left was not strong enough to split. The bees were alive but not building or taking feed. He asked me at least a couple times my thoughts on his problem. If you are a friend of Hackenbergs (like you say) then ask Hackenberg if he did not talk to Bob Harrison about his problems in Austin. I agree with David H. on his hypothesis about the neonicotinoids and strongly (very strongly) disagree with the Pettis position. Of course both David H. and myself have looked in a higher number of hives by now in our lives than Pettis ever will in his. Quote from Steve Croft at the end of the 60 minutes article: " That was six months ago." It is important from me to add here that the first 60 minutes segment on Hackenberg was broadcast on Oct.26,2007. Updated on February 21,2008. going on: "So far this year ( meaning right now 2008) , the news is not good. When we caught up with David Hackenberg this week in California ( my meaning is RIGHT NOW) , he TOLD US more than half his bees had ONCE AGAIN DISAPPEARED" bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:32:01 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: organic conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi all, we are just recovering from our trip to arizona, and the organic beekeeping conference. one concept that came up a few times is the impact on the gene pool that commercial breeding operations has, and that it's preferable to keep a lineage of queens in a hive (requeening with daughters of the current queen) in order to maintain a diverse gene pool. ...the videos of these talks (by kirsten ebberston and randy quinn) will be available soon (anyone with suggestions on where to post longer videos than the 10min youtube limit, i'd love to hear from you). also, i gave a rather long winded talk that covered a lot of ground (management, economics, marketing, doomsday scenarios, organic standards, etc). probably a bit radical for this group, but i'd love to discuss any of this on or off list (if i don't put my ideas up for criticism, how can i improve them?): http://www.beeuntoothers.com/btalkpt1.mp3 http://www.beeuntoothers.com/btalkpt2.mp3 deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:44:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: 60 minutes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The 60 minutes episode on bees is available at their web site. Interesting quotes: "Hackenberg says most beekeepers believe the culprit is a relatively new type of pesticide called neonicotinoids" Jeff Pettis responds: "Well, if that's true then we'll be able to find certain levels of different pesticides in those hives and we don't have that complete picture yet. We just don't have consistency that points us in that direction." -- Pete **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:48:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 60 minutes In-Reply-To: <1196333951.3109781203988531543.JavaMail.root@md15.embarq.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I have looked at a large number of the hives from the CCD survey. Certainly a higher number than were sampled by the CCD team. I think most reading are beekeepers. Think about what I am saying from a beekeeper perspective. I have been looking in bee hives for almost fifty years . ALL commercial beekeepers seek out the wisdom of "grandpa beekeeper" when new problems arise. Always! CCD: brood left in hive and bees gone: Sure brood being left is unusual . The ONLY time I have seen A. melifera abandon eggs,larva and brood *is* with a pesticide kill. Heck even fume boards have a hard time driving bees out of supers with brood in it. Other bees will not rob the full combs of honey: I never have seen combs of honey the bees would not rob when a flow is not on! Never! Think about how fast the bees in your home yard try to get into the honey house when the flow is over. clean up those empty supers. In an experiment I ran on some comb last fall I found even a light pass over the comb with an insecticide (not spraying directly on the comb) would prevent the bees from touching the comb. However just like with sugar ants after a week the insecticide goes away and the ants come back. After a period of time the bees will try to rob my test combs. I did not leave out put simply brought outside the building and set down in an area of bees robbing and a week later the bees hit the test comb right away. Which is a reason why when samples are taken a few weeks after the problem only low levels of insecticide are found. However we still have no information to speak of on sub lethal doses of neonicotinoids. Bees disappear: Classic neonictinoid poisoning. Each year beekeepers are finding higher numbers of hives with not a single bee in the hive. Even I am seeing these hives. In summer I figure they simply went queen less and the bees drifted to another hive. This time of year when the bees are confined I have got no answer as to the cause. The dead bees should have been found with heads in the cells or dead on the bottom board. Not! The only reasonable answer to what I have seen.is that the bees have become disorientated and flew from the hive in dead of winter to die. What I have seen: Hives checked on the first 50F. day in dead of winter. My return on the next 50F. day weeks later and all but maybe 50-100 dead bees on the bottom board gone! These hives had a cluster of around 6-7 frames of bees on the first visit. >From the 60 minutes program: Hackenberg: " I think, basically , I think the insecticides are breaking down the immune systems" Steve Kroft; " He says most beekeepers believe the culprit is a relatively new type of pesticide called "neonictinoids" a synthetic chemical based on nicotine. They are now used for everything from cornfields to golf courses , and everything from the front lawn to the family pet" Hackenberg: " Well basically , the chemical , the manufacturers of this product say it breaks down their immune system, causes memory loss, causes nervous systems disorders, It causes the insects to quit feeding" Bob Harrison comment on first stage CCD: Quitting feeding with CCD hives is more common from what I have seen than the bees gone. The last few years have been the first time I have seen bees which would not touch feed when starving. Some of these hives will return to feeding but in tests I have seen the bees go for a couple months without touching feed in a feeder. Even a hive with enough bees to empty the feeder in a day leaves the feed alone. If the bees feed at all the bees feed on the honey around the brood nest. Maybe one out of five will survive and in a few months return to a normal hive. Asked by Steve Kroft if he thinks this is what has happened to the bees , hackenberg tells kroft: " That's exactly what we are seeing inside these honeybee colonies" Remember: There is not a lot to research if the road leads to the new neonicotinods! I agree with Hackenberg that most beekeepers which keep bees for a living are not buying what certain researchers are selling BECAUSE their hypothesis (like the Science article) simply does not fit with what we are observing. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:08:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Artificial 'Honey' Hits Market MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Artificial 'Honey' Hits Market Diabetic Market Opens Up Worldwide for FDA-Approved All-Natural Sweetener Marketed by SuperVision http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/02/artificial-honey-hits-market.html LOS ANGELES, CA, Feb 25, 2008 (MARKET WIRE via COMTEX) -- SuperVision Entertainment Inc. (PINKSHEETS: SVET) is pleased to announce that the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) recently approved an artificial sweetener made from all-natural crops such as wheat, rice, corn, potatoes, barley etc. It is a radical departure from such artificial sweeteners such as Aspartame, Splenda and others that are basically chemical cocktails of one form or another. This amazing new product is produced by creating an enzymatic degradation of all the natural crops which is then processed and purified. The end result is an all-natural sweetener that looks exactly like honey, tastes exactly like honey, and has the same consistency as honey. In fact, it's putting bees out of business... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:39:46 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIFNlcHDDpGzDpA==?= Subject: Re: 60 minutes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob: Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Was the reason for the belief in the benefit of small cell based on the = belief that Africanized bees had fewer mites because of their smaller = cell size? Maybe we should have looked at the original host for varroa = ;the small Asian hive bee. I wonder if "small cell" is more nearly = approaching the size of Apis Cerane drone cells. If this is the case it = could account for the preference of varroa for the smaller cell size. Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:36:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Poor forage In-Reply-To: <1196333951.3109781203988531543.JavaMail.root@md15.embarq.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some comments here on the list about the pollinators along the East Coast led me to another possible problem of commercial pollinators, where most of the CCD reposts come from. It also answers the question of why we have not seen CCD in Maine, but it is rampant in Florida. One truth about blueberries and other crops on the pollination trail is the lack of sufficient nectar to sustain the bees. Here in Maine, almost all of the time those who pollinate blueberries will go off the crop with less stores than they went in. Bees usually come off blueberries in terrible shape. Not just lack of sufficient nectar, but the flowers are killers as they are so small. Bees struggle to get nectar and pollen. They will literally wear off their hair and end up shiny bright, as if diseased. Plus, EFB is rampant in the fields because of stress. In the past, knowledgeable pollinators would go to raspberries to replenish stores, rest their bees and get them back to health before returning to Florida. But often those were wild berries and not commercial fields, hence only the bees were benefiting, not the pollinator from pollination fees. The honey was very good, however. We no longer have that pollination pattern for those who pollinate along the East Coast. Because of introduced crops (cranberries) and lack of free honeybees because of Varroa for other crops (apples, cucumbers, pumpkins and other cucurbits), to maximize their profit commercial pollinators move to them. Most of those crops are just more bad forage. In essence, bees are led from poor forage crop to poor forage crop all the way back home to Florida. Unless they are fed both pollen and sugar along the way, they will arrive home in bad shape. So they arrive in Maine in good shape and back in Florida in poor shape, all ready for (or already showing) CCD (queen, brood and lack of bees). I have no idea if this fits with any of the CCD puzzle, but it certainly could be a factor. It does fit the template on how to manage to insure you have problems. It also answers the question of why no CCD in Maine but plenty in Florida. It definitely fits with the same problems they have found with commercial pollinators, poor forage and CCD symptoms in Europe (they do not call it CCD there). Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:35:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Bat die off In-Reply-To: <200802251330.m1PDQb8V002168@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The bat die-off news has been in the local newspapers and television stations in the Albany, NY area. I googled for local articles: http://capitalnews9.com/content/your_news/capital_region/109749/mystery- disease-killing-bats/Default.aspx or http://tinyurl.com/2gzcxn I discovered that the story was picked up by at least 2 national papers on the left and right coast (Boston and San Francisco). I almost didn't approve the original submission because it was so off-topic, but the SF paper DID connect the dots between the bat disease and honey bees and it got me wondering if there might be a common denominator. My recollection was that the cause of BBD (Beleaguered Bats Disappearing) might lie in unusual weather (drought in late summer, followed by later than normal winter onset, and an unusually warm winter causing bats to go into winter physically lighter than they should be and burning their insufficient calorie reserves due to unusually warm weather). What I found most interesting is how the scientific professionals are being challenged by the unscientific professionals. The similarities are uncanny! In this case, NY's Wildlife Pathologist Dr. Ward Stone states up front that at this point in time he really doesn't know what is causing the problem but can offer some possible explanations, and more research is definitely in order. It is observed on spelunker blogs that Dr. Stone is a political appointee, and what he is speculating is not what the spelunkers are seeing in the caves, and the spelunkers have been in far more caves than Dr. Stone has visited in his entire life! So yes, there is an unquestionable similarity between BBD and CCD. Aaron Morris - thinking its got to be cell phones! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:20:26 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Neonicotinics, CCD Team MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Bob I've recovered enough from two runs on double pneumonia to rise to the bait. You've said many things about the CCD team, and most recently: "I have looked at a large number of the hives from the CCD survey. Certainly a higher number than were sampled by the CCD team." Ok, FYI, just because one individual or group from the 'CCD Team' says/publishes something, does not mean that represents the views of the 'Team'. The 'Team' per se has not issued a joint report since last spring. If you disagree with findings of individual members, reference whose findings you wish to refute. I don't know about the other members of the CCD team, but we've (Bee Alert/Univ. MT) sampled bee colonies at over 60 widely spaced locations across the U.S., plus we've received samples from many more. Just this last month, we sampled 700 colonies in CA. Not just looked at, sampled. And, we've looked at many more locations. In a given day, we often sample some, look at many more beeyards. Why not sample all? We just don't have the resources to process all of the samples that we could take. I'm sorry, but if you read the PSU chemical report and listened to our own presentations, you will find that like Jeff Pettis, we don't see any pattern pointing to the neonicotinics. And traces of pesticides are always found in bees. Which ones show up in high levels depends on the area and decade. Our data over the past 30 years shows shifts from the DDT organics, to the carbamates and organophosphates, with the neonicotinics adding another category over the past 10 years. Big kills in the west over recent years have often been from Furidan and Sevin. Do pesticides kill bees - certainly. But its on a case by case, site by site basis. In the west, you'll find large beekeepers in TX, AZ, CA who pulled bees back away from crops this year, placed them at desert locations to reduce exposure to pesticides, and still they lost bees to CCD over past few weeks. And the Canadians aren't reporting widespread CCD on canola, with huge tracts of this crop treated with neonicotinics. Ask me if a certain beekeeper with bees on watermelons, whose bees dropped in the melons and continued to drop after being removed, is likely to have sustained a pesticide kill, I'd say yes. Ask me if CCD is caused by neonicotinics, I'd say there's no compelling evidence for picking on this pesticide and ignoring the others. However, and unfortunately, one could make a stronger case for the chemicals beekeepers place inside bee hives to control mites and other pests as a causative factor. For example, mainly in colonies from the east coast, we found a high frequency of high levels of paradichlorobenzene in the 'air' inside the hives - not just in the comb. Please don't get me wrong - if someone like Dave Hackenberg has data about high level of neonicotinics in his colonies from a given grower (which I'm told he has), then in that case, at that site, I'd take a harder look at the neonicotinics. Should beekeepers avoid crops treated with neonicotinics? That's a personal choice, and its one that can only be made by the beekeeper who knows the history/context of the individual case. I think a more important issue is that the beekeeper and grower need to discuss what will be used, how much, and when. Better awareness that there are choices is far more important. Suggest less toxic OR chemicals of less concern (to you, the individual beekeeper). For too many years, beekeepers have been reluctant to advise growers about what to do, for fear that the grower would find someone else to pollinate the crop. For the safety of your bees, you need to openly discuss this issue. Jerry **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:30:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: 60 minutes In-Reply-To: <53A52162D7B54FACBE3C01008B2C83A7@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob wrote: =20 "> There is not a lot to research if the road leads to the new neonicotinod= s!> I agree with Hackenberg that most beekeepers which keep bees for a livi= ng> are not buying what certain researchers are selling BECAUSE their hypot= hesis> (like the Science article) simply does not fit with what we are obse= rving." If this is pesticide poisoning, and beekeepers are starting to observe the = start of CCD, then why are we not finding lethal doses of neonicotinods wit= hin the hive? One of the new symotoms being observed is the lack of feedin= g by the hives. Why not pull samples from these hives at that point and ge= t them tested? I think it all comes back to how you are feeding your bees,= or not feeding your bees. These hives arn't healthy to begin with. =20 Jimhttp://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!=A0Play the word scramble challenge with sta= r power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=3Dstarshuffle_wlmailtextlink_ja= n= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:41:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <200802260505.m1Q551ON028026@mail.watchtv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim, Dr. Eric Mussen, University of California Extension Apiary Specialist has a couple of items regarding costs of operating beehives at the following address: http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/faculty/mussen/news_index1.html One lists the costs based upon 2003 costs factors--much different than today for sure, the other is a worksheet that helps you figure your own costs. Jim State of Jefferson Tulelake, CA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:09:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 60 minutes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter ( my long time friend) & All, We have heated debates on BEE-L which may look to others that the members of the discussion do not like each other. The opposite is true! BEE-L would be pretty boring if we all had the same opinion. > Jeff Pettis responds: > "Well, if that's true then we'll be able to find certain levels of > different pesticides in those hives They certainly have found pesticides in the CCD samples. 14 were systemic. "and we don't have that complete > picture yet." Those on the list which watched the video did you notice a red face on Mr. Pettis when pressed on the pesticide issue! I certainly did! To get a clear picture you need to start some sub lethal testing . I think Beltsville knows the results would be used in our fight with Bayer which in my opinion is in the future. bayer knows this and the reson why I was only able to talk to company reps when the reps did not know I was a beekeeper. I think most on the list watch the investigations their local TV stations do and the doors slammed in their faces. Same happened to me. " We just don't have consistency that points us in that > direction."" To be as nice as possible no research is being conducted by the USDA-ARS that I know of to test sub lethal effects of the neonicotinoids. Why not? Did Hackenberg benefit from his 400 hive experiment watched over by Beltsville? Will Beltsville provide beekeepers with the results of their Hackenberg testing? Still waiting. Did Beltsville provide the guidance to prevent a repeat collapse? ( I think you know the answer). While in Florida I was amazed at the private beekeeping bee research being done. Different testing of queens from all the major producers. testing of all the pollen supplements ( beekeepers results differ from the published research) , testing of mite treatments, nosema treatments and many Randy Oliver type experiments. I was invited to come down and spend another month helping run the tests! No pay but would be fun and interesting. Sadly my attempts at full retirement since 1998 when i officially retired have been a dismal failure. At night I work in the lab trying to invent a patch ( similar to the nicotine patch for those trying to quit smoking) to help those poor souls addicted to beekeeping. My close friend Horace Bell made it *bee free* for a couple years and then "fell off the bee free wagon" and is now back keeping bees with employees! At least I now have started taking three months off each winter. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:11:19 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: bleach In-Reply-To: <000801c87888$9c9cdb70$640a0a0a@puppy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I was asked off list about bleach as a preservative. My web guy will be posting two articles this week. I though that I would answer on list. I now prefer thymol as a preservative, although bleach may have benefits. The thymol will be covered in Twins 5--soon to be posted. Here is excerpt from Fat Bees 3--also to be posted this week. Be aware that light syrup can rapidly spoil during warm weather due to fermentation and colonization by yeasts, bacteria, and fungi. You can prevent this by adding unscented household bleach ("ultra" 6% sodium hypochlorite) at the rate of 1 cup per 55 gallons, or 4ml (4/5 tsp) per gallon. I've experimented with a bit with this chlorinated syrup. Initial free chlorine spikes quite high, then becomes undetectable to the swimming pool test strips that I used after a few hours. Yet even several hours after mixing (sealed to prevent outgassing), the syrup still prevented any microbial growth when I inoculated it. It appears that the free chlorine loosely binds to the sugar, yet retains its activity for some time. I found that as long as the syrup smelled like a swimming pool, it would sterilize any feeder that I poured it into. A syrup preservative that I like even better than bleach is thymol. I write about this in "The Nosema Twins 5." You can also search this site for "thymolated syrup." Hope this helps Randy Oliver On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Bill and Bobbie McGiffin wrote: > > > randy > When will your article on bleach be out and can you copy me > Thanks > Bill **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: # Re: 60 minutes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob writes: > Those on the list which watched the video did you notice a red face on Mr. Pettis when pressed on the pesticide issue! * Funny you should mention that. I thought he was embarrassed by the statement "David Hackenberg says ... " * To me, statements like "most beekeepers believe the culprit is neonicotinoids" are embarrassing. It sounds like beekeepers believe one thing and scientists something else. These scientists are on our side, you guys! > Chris Mullin, a Pennsylvania State University professor and insect toxicologist, recently sent a set of samples to a federal laboratory in Raleigh, N.C., that will screen for 117 chemicals. Of greatest interest are the "systemic" chemicals that are able to pass through a plant's circulatory system and move to the new leaves or the flowers, where they would come in contact with bees. Among the pesticides being tested in the American bee investigation, the neonicotinoids group "is the number-one suspect," Dr. Mullin said. He hoped results of the toxicology screening will be ready within a month. from "Bees Vanish, and Scientists Race for Reasons" April 24, 2007 NY Times * A year has passed -- the researchers were unable to link CCD with any particular pesticides. > Diana Cox-Foster, professor of entomology at Pennsylvania State University College of Agricultural Sciences, which received $150,000 from Häagen-Dazs, believes researchers have identified a major cause of CCD. Her team has recently given the mite-transmitted Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus (IAPV) to healthy bee colonies and has seen rapid die-off. Professor Cox-Foster believes that there are other factors together with IAPV are the cause of CCD, such as other viruses, the use of chemicals near colonies and whether the bees are receiving enough nutrition. from "Ice cream crisis as bees buzz off" February 25 2008 guardian.co.uk * * * A humorous aside: > The name is not Scandinavian; it is simply two made-up words meant to look Scandinavian to American eyes (In fact, the letter combinations "äa" and "zs" are impossible in all Scandinavian languages). Häagen-Dazs is an American brand of ice cream made by the Hristov family, established by Reuben and Rose Mattus in The Bronx, New York in 1961. from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haagen-Dazs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:43:11 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <001701c8787f$49b49410$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, > Was the reason for the belief in the benefit of small cell based on the belief that Africanized bees had fewer mites because of their smaller cell size? > No, it was based on the fact that bees were at the time being kept on unnaturally larger cells than was in the past. Natural or normal cell size for worker brood, before they were artificially enlarged by unwitting beekeepers, was in the range of 4.6 mm to 5.1 mm. 4.8 mm to 4.9 mm being mid range is the reason for using 4.9 mm foundation or some just simply use foundation-less frames or plain wax starter strips. Small cell is not based on Africanized bees. This web site explains it well. Natural Cell Size, small cell bees, small cell beekeeping, regression, natural beekeeping, Bush Bees, foundationless frames, organic beekeeping > Maybe we should have looked at the original host for varroa ;the small Asian hive bee. > This has been done by some using SCB, I am sure that others have looked at this also. I do not remember exactly what was discovered or discussed but I am sure that others can. > I wonder if "small cell" is more nearly approaching the size of Apis Cerane drone cells. If this is the case it could account for the preference of varroa for the smaller cell size. > This is not what was going on in the experiment. If you want to know more of an explanation for this there was an in depth discussion on the organicbeekeepers list a couple of months ago. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Organicbeekeepers/ God Bless, Keith Malone The Great State, The Last Frontier **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:37:16 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <001701c8787f$49b49410$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Carl & Virginia Webb wrote: I wonder if "small > cell" is more nearly approaching the size of Apis > Cerane drone cells. If this is the case it could > account for the preference of varroa for the smaller > cell size. We have to be careful with using the word ‘preference’, conserving these types of studies. As far as I am aware, the test did not ‘give the varroa a choice’ by providing varying sizes of worker cells within the ‘same colony‘, therefore we cannot say that ‘varroa prefer smaller cells’, unless the choice of varying cell sizes is made available to the mite. Even if mite counts were higher in small cell colony worker brood, you cannot make the statement if there be a lack of choice. Although a great philosopher once said; “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice,” it perhaps cannot be applicable to a mite study lacking choice. Best Wishes, Joe ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:54:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Harry Laidlaw would be proud MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 50 hives of a specially selected high- and low-pollen-hoarding genetic stock spanning 32 generations, will relocate to Davis and "will pave the way for future genetic research here," announced Walter Leal, professor and chair of the Department of Entomology. "Harry Laidlaw would be very proud to know that the Honey Bee Research Facility will soon be operating at full capacity," Leal added, "with world-class research on native and European honeybees." "This stock is the most studied, most valued honeybee research stock ever," said internationally known honeybee geneticist Robert E. Page, who was formerly with UC Davis and is now at Arizona State University. The bees are expected to be right at home here in Davis: "The hot summers in Arizona are hard on the bees," Page said. "All the colonies have queens that were instrumentally inseminated, and come from completely controlled matings traced back to their origins at UC Davis," Page added. "We know they've never been contaminated by any Africanized bees, for example." -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst "I don't give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." - Harry S. Truman. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:12:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Artificial 'Honey' Hits Market Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was waiting for an artificial honey thread to get started. ;) Published in the: Newport Mercury Saturday, June 02, 1906 Newport, Rhode Island ====Article Start==== Artificial Honey The honey had some foreign substance in it, the leg of a bee and a shred of broken wing. "Well," said the wife of the food expert, "this is pure at any rate." She held up the bits of bee on a fork before her husband. "No benzoic acid, formaldehyde, boric acid or salicylic acid here, eh, John?" But John, the food expert, laughed scornfully. "Those bits of bee in the honey," he said, "prove its artificiality. Genuine honey never has dead bees in it. They who make genuine honey are too clean and careful for anything of that kind to happen. It is as rare to find in real honey a bee's wing or a bee's leg as it is to find in a loaf of bread a baker's hand or foot." ====End==== Best Wishes, Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:23:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <200802260505.m1Q551ON028026@mail.watchtv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can you quote where the $100 figure came from and what it might include. It wouldn't take long for the cost of running a hive to reach $100 if you are including labor, re-queening, periodic comb and equipment replacement, etc. -Tim The dollar amount came from a statement Jerry Hayes made over a year ago, as Lawrence Cutts retired,he estimated it a 50 dollars .This used in the text of commercial ,not hobby beekeeping,and it includeds all costs. I'm sure that's a low figure when you add in ccd problems, for those of you that can do it for a tenth ,I'm proud for you. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:16:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Small cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Bill Truesdell wrote: > Have there been any good scientific studies of small > cell recently? Hi Bill, Not sure, haven’t kept up on that lately. Unfortunately, small cell is being held up on a pedestal as a ’cure all’, when it simply is NOT the case. >From my half decent success in keeping bees without the use of treatments, I see it as a currency, contributing to success, the same as hygienic behavior, grooming, good management and resistance to AFB would all contribute to success BUT by itself is not the ‘cause’ of success. > Also, are there any small cell queen suppliers (just > curious). I would think that there would be a > market, There are a few, and there is a GREAT demand for queens raised from small cell colonies. BUT I have to say, it is discouraging to see beekeepers choose queen breeders based solely on weather they are small cell. Selection of the best bred stock, and locally adapted, treatment free stock should perhaps take precedent, with small cell somewhere further down the list. Last season, I placed an add on bee source stating that I ‘may’ be having small cell feral queens for sale, it prompted a flood of inquiries for orders without any further questioning, which surprised me somewhat. But as it turned out, this queen biz ain’t for me, having decided to say with providing bees & queens locally instead. Best Wishes, Joe Published in Decatur, Ill year 1876- ‘A naturalist asks: "Do bees hear?' We don't think they do. At any rate when a man is chased by a bee across a ten-acre field, and at the top of his voice urges his pursuer to "shoo, there! the insect pays no attention what ever to his remarks.’ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:05:41 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: POLLINATOR PARTNERSHIP AND BURT'S BEES FUND RESEARCH PROPOSALS RELATED TO HONEY BEE HEALTH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you to Burt's Bees for stepping up to the plate to help us out! And thanks to the Pollinator Partnership! > Subject: [Pollinator] For Immediate Release: POLLINATOR PARTNERSHIP AND BURT'S BEES FUND RESEARCH PROPOSALS RELATED TO HONEY BEE HEALTH > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > POLLINATOR PARTNERSHIP AND BURT'S BEES FUND RESEARCH PROPOSALS RELATED TO > HONEY BEE HEALTH > > SAN FRANCISCO, CA February 26, 2008 - The critical disappearance of bees, > called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD), is still a mysterious threat to honey > bees, the foundation of pollination services in agriculture. The Pollinator > Partnership and its North American Pollinator Protection Campaign/NAPPC (a > tri-national coalition dedicated to promoting the health of all pollinators) > is teaming up with bee-friendly, natural personal care company Burt's Bees > to address this agricultural and environmental issue. Their most recent > collaboration has provided funding to five teams of scientists whose > collective goal is to research issues surrounding honey bee health, an area > heretofore sorely lacking funding despite media attention. > > Burt's Bees, which funded the Pollinator Partnership's creation of a task > force dedicated to honey bee health issues in 2007, provided funding to > create the grants. Proposals were selected by members of the Honey Bee > Health Improvement Task Force (a list of members and more information at > www.pollinator.org/honeybee_health.htm). Nineteen eligible proposals were > received from applicants all around North America, totaling more than > $200,000 in funding requests. The caliber and diversity of the proposals > speak to the importance of and need for honey bee health research. In > response to the program selection, John Replogle, President and CEO of > Burt's Bees said, "As a bee-friendly company, we know the critical role bees > play in our ecosystem. We are proud to support this task force and believe > these projects will take the appropriate steps to improve the quality and > lives of bees." > > "The NAPPC Honey Bee Health Improvement Project supports first-rate > scientists in their search to keep honey bees healthy," said Pollinator > Partnership Executive Director, Laurie Adams. The Chairs of the NAPPC Honey > Bee Health Improvement Project are Dr. Christina Grozinger, Dr. Barry > Thompson, and Danny Weaver, past president of the American Beekeepers > Federation. Adams added, "On behalf of the Co-Chairs and the scientists > exploring the variables of environment, nutrition, pesticides, and stock > improvement, we thank Burt's Bees for their vital support." > > Honey Bee Health Improvement Co-Chair Dr. Christina Grozinger was impressed > by the quality of proposals submitted. "These proposals are excellent > examples of the holistic approach that is needed to address the complex > challenges facing beekeepers," said Dr. Grozinger. > > Grants supporting five research proposals will be awarded, and funding is > actively being sought for three more. The one-year grants cover a broad > range of honey bee related topics such as the effects of climate or > environmental variables, the effects of nutrition on honey bee physiology > and/or colony health, the effects of sublethal doses of pesticides > (including miticides) on honey bee physiology and/or colony health, and > genetic stock improvement. A list of proposals that have been awarded > follows: > > . "Assessment of sublethal effects of imidacloprid on honey bee and > colony health" (University of Maryland Foundation; Dively and Embrey) > . "Diagnostic gene panel for honey bee breeding and disease > management" (USDA-ARS Bee Research Lab; Evans and Chen) > . "Effects of miticide and Fumagilin-B on honey bee survivorship and > immune responses" (Acadia University; Little, Shutler, and others) > . "Changes in hormonal and protein levels in honey bees that are > experiencing migratory transportation" (Michigan State University; Huang) > . "Nutritional effects on intestinal health and longevity of honey bee > workers" (University of North Carolina at Greensboro; Rueppell) > > "The Honey Bee Health Task Force and NAPPC applaud the generosity and wisdom > of Burt's Bees," said Honey Bee Health Improvement Project Co-Chair Danny > Weaver. "Burt's Bees has enabled funding for important studies that should > contribute to improved honey bee health and thereby ensure the delivery of > critical pollination services. Unfortunately, even Burt's Bees' generous > initial gift is insufficient to fund all of the deserving proposals, and the > Honey Bee Health Task Force and NAPPC will continue to seek other > contributions to fully fund all the proposed investigations." > > The Pollinator Partnership works to promote awareness and scientific > understanding of pollinators; gather, organize and disseminate information > about pollinators; provide a forum to identify and discuss pollinator > issues; and promote projects, initiatives and activities that enhance > pollinator conservation. For additional information about the Pollinator > Partnership, visit www.pollinator.org. > > #### > R. Thomas (Tom) Van Arsdall, Public Affairs Representative for Coevolution > Institute/Pollinator Partnership/NAPPC > For More Information, http://www.pollinator.org **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:53:40 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Artificial 'Honey' Hits Market In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >From the Codex Honey is the natural sweet substance produced by honeybees from the nectar of blossoms or from secretions of living parts of plants or excretions of plant sucking insects on the living parts of plants, which honeybees collect, transform and combine with specific substances of their own, store and leave in the honey comb to ripen and mature. This other product of the subject can not be call Honey, it should be call syrup or anyother way. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Neonicotinics, CCD Team Comments: To: Jerry Bromenshenk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:20:26 EST, Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: >I think a more important issue is that the beekeeper and grower need to >discuss what will be used, how much, and when. Here is a link to a 2006 publication titled How to Reduce Bee Poisoning from Pesticides. http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/abstract.php?seriesno=PNW+591 note you can view the entire publication online first before purchasing. I purchased this last spring and gave copies to land owners where I keep bees and also the few orchards I pollinate in spring and they all seemed appreciative and concerned. Also question to Jerry B- you referred to the "PSU chemical report" in your post. Is this available to the list? I did a quick search and found nothing online. I think many beekeepers would like to know what's in that report. We mostly hear the occasional enlightening update on CCD from people like you. The rest is left to our imaginations and scuttlebutt. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:49:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: POLLINATOR PARTNERSHIP AND BURT'S BEES FUND RESEARCH PROPOSALS RELATED TO HONEY BEE HEALTH In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802261805o5372b8d3odd915f975a2b65d1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Randy & All, I also thank Burt's bees for the donation and Danny Weaver listening to the pleas of his fellow beekeepers, Heading the list is the funding U.S. beekeepers I have spoke with wanted the most. "Assessment of sub lethal effects of imidacloprid on honey bees and/or colony health" The national organizations were listening. Many of us felt the above research would most likely not get funded partly because we asked for the same type of legislation as Canada has for formic acid and oxalic acid and never happened. We asked for the imidacloprid study and the American Beekeeping Federation produced results. Thanks again to Danny Weaver as I am sure he pushed for the study Hackenberg and many others (myself) felt was the most important research project. A not paid for by Bayer study! Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:54:57 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Molokai Meli LLC Subject: Re: Artificial 'Honey' Hits Market In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10802261853s76571b96qac22dad7bf8c6613@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > This other product of the subject can not be call Honey, it should be > call > syrup or anyother way. It sounds very much like brown rice syrup that is an enzymatically processed sweet and thick substance made from brown rice. It doesn't compare to honey in my opinion as most people who use honey want HONEY. Molokai Meli **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:28:20 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe wrote > There are a few, and there is a GREAT demand for > queens raised from small cell colonies. Why would the genetics of these queens from small cell colonies be different if they were raised from hives that were down sized? I would think they are the same bees but on small cell? This is unless they are raised from ferals. Also there have been comparisons made to Apis cerana. Remember that cerana is smaller than mellifera and so would have a smaller cell. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:35:33 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <1811954502.3348981204071820636.JavaMail.root@md15.embarq.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A large Calif/Dakota beekeeper gave a presentation last November. To move from Calif to North Dakota and back, pay his crew, feed and medicate, etc until colonies were back in Idaho for wintering, cost him $71 per colony. His income from honey was $72 per colony. You do the math. He took 10,000 colonies to N.D., and brought only 8,000 live back to Idaho. I talked to him two weeks ago as he was beginning to move to Calif, but don't know what his winter losses were. This is a top-knotch beekeeper with one of the cleanest operations I've seen. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:33:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey a 'Broad Spectrum Antimicrobial Agent' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey a 'Broad Spectrum Antimicrobial Agent' Using Honey to Inhibit Wound Pathogens Nursing Times; 104: 3, 46-49, January 23, 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/02/honey-broad-spectrum-antimicrobial.html This article reviews the laboratory and clinical evidence that relates to the antimicrobial properties of honey. Observations show it is a broad spectrum antimicrobial agent with efficacy against bacteria, fungi, protozoa and viruses... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:42:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: POLLINATOR PARTNERSHIP AND BURT'S BEES FUND RESEARCH PROPOSALS RELATED TO HONEY BEE HEALTH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit the more interesting outcome might end up being will the industry accept the results if like other pieces of data that are piling up that suggest no widespread effects. jiust like the small cell camp is in denial about new research showing no benefits, i doubt that this will put anything to rest either. Imid is becoming the powerball lottery ticket for the migratory sector and when the ticket comes back as a loser......there's always another ticket to buy next week and in this case maybe another study will hit the jackpot. one can always dream, while continuing on the chemical treadmill of self contamination. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:54:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: honey prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I am a hobby (50 hives) beekeeper in North Alabama. I spend a good amount each year to keep bees going. I would guess that I spend in the neighborhood of $36 which includes re-queening and all the chemicals used. This does not include anything for time, gasoline, smoker, veil and truck expenses. The drought really killed our honey quantity in 2007. The quality was very good. The large Calif/Dakota operation did very good if he received around $125.00 per hive for Almond pollination. His honey volume was terrible and I feel for him as for myself in a dry year. I am retired from my job and have been keeping bees for about 35 years. I have never seen beekeeping as hard as it is becoming. More pests, more pesticides and less effective ways of treating problems. Years before the mites, all we had was foul brood, nosema, chalk brood, and a few others that were treatable very easy. Lionel **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:00:16 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <005401c87959$169e6a30$22fa494c@bige953ca8f8be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > The large Calif/Dakota operation did very good if he received around $125.00 per hive for Almond pollination. Thanks, Lionel. I realize that I wasn't clear to all. The point was that he would be considered a successful commercial beekeeper. Anyone who can break even for 11 months of the year while keeping their colonies alive, can make their year's income in almonds. Problem is, if your bees crash before or during almonds, you're then in the hole for hauling expenses. Almond report: The main almond variety, nonpariel, is just opening, and should be in full bloom in a couple of days. This is unheard of--we still have the late varieties after that. Many years previously, I have started moving bees OUT of almonds by March 1st! Don't anyone expect early queens, nucs, or packages out of California this season. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:42:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: honey prices and profit In-Reply-To: <005401c87959$169e6a30$22fa494c@bige953ca8f8be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There have been some good discussions on the real cost of beekeeping in the archives. The key point is that most do not really know what the cost is, since many are not businessmen, but beekeepers. The businessman/beekeeper knows what the cost of doing business is. Many beekeepers look at what is left over as profit, but fail to include their own labor, medical, retirement, facilities, utilities, and on and on as part of their costs. If they did, it would be a sobering assessment. But, even after all that, there does come the most essential point, and it trumps all else- do you enjoy what you are doing? It is more important to be poor and happy than rich and miserable. I find that most successful people enjoy what they are doing and have enough money. The money is secondary, which is why it is enough. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:54:35 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <00dc01c8791a$b72624a0$4c91453d@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- queenbee wrote: > Joe wrote > > > There are a few, and there is a GREAT demand for > > queens raised from small cell colonies. > Why would the genetics of these queens from small > cell colonies be different > if they were raised from hives that were down sized? Hello Trevor, I did not make a statement that the genetics were any different. I just stated that there was a GREAT demand for them. > I would think they are > the same bees but on small cell? This is unless > they are raised from > ferals. Yes, virtually the same bees. Except that by using feral stock and culling as much as possible any swarm not gathered from areas remote to domestic beekeeping, as well as culling any queens that do not have body markings that I find in the dominate and best performing feral ‘for my area‘. I feel that the bees have survival traits developed naturally in the wild, that breeders continue to strive for in their stock. Trevor, they point of my previous post was to voice my concern for persons seeking queens without asking an abundance of questions. I’m not here to get into any feral bee fray. Best Wishes, Joe ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:41:59 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bee Quick Subject: Re: Small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > No, it was based on the fact that bees were at the time being > kept on unnaturally larger cells than was in the past. > Natural or normal cell size for worker brood, before they were > artificially enlarged by unwitting beekeepers, was in the range of > 4.6 mm to 5.1 mm. 4.8 mm to 4.9 mm being mid range is the reason > for using 4.9 mm foundation or some just simply use foundation-less > frames or plain wax starter strips. If the above were a fact, then countries where foundation was either unavailable or unaffordable, such as all the Caribbean island nations, would have maintained "natural" cell sizes all along, and would not have as many problems with varroa. But these bees and their comb cell sizes are no smaller than mainland US bees. Varroa is a serious problem for these beekeepers. How could the bees on these islands have been universally "upsized" by efforts in the US and Europe given a lack of foundation use and a lack of bee exports to these nations? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:48:21 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <000e01c87813$27877680$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carl Webb This is great to hear that the mites go into the small cell the first year on broodnest changeover, but please note what I have said happens from then forward with first overwintering. The Broodnest acts like a living liver for cleansing with the bees interacting and between the bees removing the varroa and the non-reproductive activity the small cell gives, you only see this the first year. There on out the bees stay on top of the problem. This action of seeing more mites on SC is because of mites going into cells 1 per for first time until all cells filled and then they start going in 2 per, etc. Because SC has more cells per square decimenter, don't think something wrong is happening, for it is not. And with NO reproduction of 4.9mm top tolerance, then 1 mite in is 1 mite out until old age sets in or grooming in phoreditc state takes care of the problem. But for first time only it is good to see and then things fall into place. This has been talked about here before and is in the archives here and also, talked about on beesource.com early on and explained when I was a moderator there, and a few other discussion groups, until workload pulled me back to only handle volume at the organic Beekeepers site. For the most part, again, after first fall major brood turn, you really never see this again, and hence the need for 3-5 year study programs, and not wham and bang and done and fast conclusions for scientific noting, for science must stand the test of time!!! Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:22:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <001701c8787f$49b49410$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carl Webb: Yes Apis Cerana was looked at and much much more. Here are early refereces to read I wrote concerning small cell, and how to's relative to varroa, small cell, and parasitic mites,pests, and predators and secondary diseases. Also much archives of old on how things came about..... http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/abjnov1989.htm http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/apiacta1992.htm http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/apiacta1995.htm http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/abjdec1997.htm http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/lusbyjun1997.htm http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/ (this is for whole index to the Saga- Way Back to Biological Beekeeping, plus archives, etc, etc. Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:02:21 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <000801c8799a$58fb2e40$0201000a@j> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Fantastic, can we now hear from a Caribbean beekeeper who might be able to back up Jim's statements? God Bless, Keith Malone **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:18:48 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Small cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe wrote > I did not make a statement that the genetics were any > different. I just stated that there was a GREAT > demand for them. > Trevor, they point of my previous post was to voice my > concern for persons seeking queens without asking an > abundance of questions. I'm not here to get into any > feral bee fray. I am not having a go or criticising you Joe. I was just curious to see if the genetics were different and thanks for your reply. Re the ferals, I have been following the postings on this. For us ferals are not really an option as they are basically from the old English bee Apis mellifera mellifera and do not produce a lot of honey before swarming. If we ever get varroa and they stand up to varroa then we may have to reassess our thinking. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:57:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Disappearing disease & pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Disappearing disease of honey bees has been observed by beekeepers in at least 27 states and in every geographical region of the United States. Inspectors describe occasions when adult worker bees disappeared during periods of cool, damp weather or when an adult population failed to build up for no identifiable reason. One large scale queen breeder and several commercial beekeepers indicated that they had experienced DD and that in some cases large numbers of colonies were affected. > Why are pesticides so often listed as the primary cause of dwindling/disappearing-bee problem? In the past, people have been inclined to "think" pesticides, often without thoroughly investigating all aspects of the bee losses. In fact, if an inspector's repertoire of bee experience does not contain information of DD, the DD/dwindling or loss would be diagnosed as pesticide-related on the basis of the general signs and symptoms. One inspector commented, "if you haven't heard of DD, what else fits the situation except pesticides?" > Certainly with both pesticide-related and DD-caused bee losses, the adult population of a colony may be reduced rapidly to a "handful" of bees or, in some cases, the entire population may be lost. However, in the case of pesticide poisoning, there is usually evidence of a pesticide application from "Disappearing Disease of Honey Bees", Wilson and Menapace, ABJ March 1979 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:31:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Calif almond pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi All, The trees are coming into bloom--on sandy soil first, then clay. Weather is perfect! Bloom will likely be very short. Bees are being graded this week. I received a wonderful example of beekeeper business logic in my mail (in response to my post about the large beekeeper going to the Dakotas and barely breaking even), and am posting it by permission of the author, Barry Digman: So, anyway, there were a couple of boys down in Georgia, Bubba and Bubba, that decided they were going to get into the almond pollination business and make their fortune. They'd heard that those California almond growers were paying better than $150 for a hive of bees, and that a fellow could rent all he could haul out there. So they gathered up 400 of their hives, got 'em loaded onto a truck, and headed for the promised land. It wasn't as easy as they thought, but eventually they found a grower to take the bees at $72 per hive. They got them unloaded in the orchard, and headed on back to Georgia to take care of business while the almonds bloomed. Well, nature took it's course, and between the rain and the mites and the other diseases that had been packed into the orchards by the million or so other hives, the Georgia boys took quite a beating by the time they'd finished up and gotten all their bees back home. After all the expenses were added up and the deadouts counted and the time and effort figured in, they figured it actually cost them $73 per hive, and they'd lost around a dollar per hive for their trouble. That just didn't seem right, so they put their heads together to come up with a plan for next year. After a while, the smart one said "I've got it!! We need a BIGGER truck!". **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:46:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: UK: Traces of Chloramphenicol Found in Royal Jelly Nutritional Supplements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII UK: Traces of Chloramphenicol Found in Royal Jelly Nutritional Supplements Survey on Royal Jelly Supplements Food Standards Agency (UK), 2/27/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/02/uk-traces-of-chloramphenicol-found-in.html In a survey published today on behalf of the Veterinary Residues Committee (VRC), the Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD) reports that traces of chloramphenicol, a veterinary medicine banned for use in food producing animals, were found in 18 samples of high concentration royal jelly nutritional supplements. However, the risks from the levels found in the affected samples would have been extremely small... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:18:42 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bee Quick Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Fantastic, can we now hear from a Caribbean beekeeper... Easy enough to verify with a search engine. Just type in your favorite Caribbean country name or island name and add "+varroa" to the query. Varroa is a serious problem in the islands, as the same lack of money that makes foundation an unaffordable luxury for most also applies to the cost of treatments. It also applies to computers, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Caribbean beekeepers to respond to your posting. (It is possible to contact some Ag extension groups via e-mail.) But the verifiable information is: 1) The Caribbean has had a historical lack of foundation use 2) Caribbean bees have been free of other overt "influence" from the US and other "industrialized nations". 3) Caribbean bees, never subjected to the upsizing influence of "unwitting beekeepers", do not seem to be surviving varroa as is claimed to be a direct benefit of "small cell" beekeeping. Therefore we appear to be forced to select one of the following: a) Caribbean bees never were "small cell". b) Caribbean bees are "small cell", but they still need miticides to survive varroa infestation. c) Caribbean bees are somehow very different from North American bees. Sadly my research to date has been hampered by the side effects of the very effective bee attractants we are using to sample the local populations: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tropanic/sets/72157604000323038/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:41:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Law Subject: HONEY BEE - Encyclopedia of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The new Encyclopedia of Life website opened yesterday. http://www.eol.org/index The Honey Bee page needs input. http://www.eol.org/taxa/17201326 -- Dennis Law ( aka Paul D. Law ) Brooklyn South Community Emergency Response Team Logistics Section **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:02:04 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: CCD in Italy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline There was a conference about CCD in italy past 29/01/2008 The paper are here http://www.apat.gov.it/site/it-IT/Rubriche/Eventi/2008/Gennaio/documenti_al= veari.html Ejamples: A multifactorial analysis approch to quantify the impact of environmental stress factors on bee health *Dr. Richard Schmuck =96 Agrofarma* Il problema dei neonicotinoidi (effetti sulle api e dispersione nell'ambiente) *Dr. Moreno Greatti =96 Universit=E0 di Udine =96 Dipartimento di Biologia Applicata alla Difesa delle Piante * Sindrome da spopolamento e patologie microbiche: possibili correlazioni con Nosema ceranae *D.ssa Elena Bessi =96 Advanced Analytical Technologies srl., Spin off dell'Universit=E0 Cattolica del Sacro Cuore di Piacenza* --=20 Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:20:01 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <000001c87a47$1db6b900$0201000a@j> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Great, is there any thing that you have read that points to what their worker comb cell size range actually is, and if so can this be shared with us here on this list? Sounds as if you have studied this to some extent. God Bless, Keith Malone **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:45:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Small cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- queenbee wrote: ..I was > just curious to see if > the genetics were different and thanks for your > reply. Hi Trevor! As I mentioned, virtually the same. My intention in collecting ferals since 1995 was to bring the bees to my back yard apiary and assess the best stock, cull the bad, and also to be intentionally lax on swarm prevention so swarms may escape to the surrounding woodlands. My priority was two prong in propagating the best feral stock in my yard, while also bolstering the feral population in my immediate area, which seemed to be lagging behind in recovery compared to pockets of ferals in advanced recovery stages within a about a 25 mile radius of me. This action needed because I felt I could not make any good progress with breeding until the feral population has recovered sufficiently in my area. Progress has been slow until about 3 years ago when I noticed a very nice sudden up-tick in brood viability in spring matings, especally during 2006 in my queens as well as increasing heavy testing and robbing of colonies from scouts flying off towards the woodlands. So it appears, the feral population has recovered abundantly enough for good progress to finally be made on the breeding front,,,and seem to be quite a competitive bunch. Some may say that in collecting ferals, the bees will not be productive. Well, in cold climates, I suspect that the natural selection for survival traits are in fact, many of the same traits needed for a colony to be productive. For example, Seeley stated; “Worker population effects a colonies fitness because a larger colony is able to collect more nectar and store more honey during the active foraging season, thereby increasing the food reserves that are necessary for it to survive the winter.” So there you have a natural selection for populous colonies that collect abundant stores. Tarpy and Page stated; “There are significant correlations of brood viability to winter survival.” This perhaps would select for traits of high polyandry in queens. I could be all wrong, but in any event, I’m having fun again keeping bees, and things are finally looking very nice on the queen performance front. Best Wishes Joe **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:24:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Disappearing disease & pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For what it's worth, people in the Ag Industry have put together a color pamphlet defending themselves against accusations pesticides contribute to CCD. Some of their key points: • Irradiation Improves Infected Hives. Studies have shown that bees can survive successfully in abandoned hives that have been irradiated to kill biological pathogens. • High Pathogen Levels. Studies of bees remaining in collapsed colonies have found high levels of pathogens. • No Correlation Between CCD and Insecticide Exposure. CCD has not been seen in every state, including some states with intensive use of Bt crops and agricultural pesticides. Furthermore, Bt crops are not grown in European countries that are experiencing bee decline. • Suspension of Pesticides Has Not Stopped Hive Collapse. Eight years ago France suspended certain uses of two specific insecticides that were considered prime suspects in bee losses there. The action has not reversed the French decline, and hive collapse occurs in regions where those pesticides have never been used. >From "Examining Pesticide Use In the Face Bee Decline." www.croplifefoundation.org **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:56:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Small Cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dee Lusby, Beekeepers have many serious problems. I wish that small cell were the = answer. Is it only a diversion that absorbs our energies? Is there real = solid research to support the benefits. Seems to me, at the present that = there is solid evidence to suggest that the more widely used cell size = is the better choice. Is small cell only an idea that must be accepted = on faith? If that is the case then logic does not apply. I have been = told that there is another study being conducted in another state. Maybe = they will soon have their results. Until there is definite proof of the = benefits of small cells I will not commit to a change but will spend my = energy on things that I have more confidence in. If it were the solution = I would welcome and change to it. Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:22:27 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Bill Truesdell wrote: > Have there been any good scientific studies of small > cell recently? Reply: Yes, and in depth and over a period of several years. But on other side of the pond in EU and not USA. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:50:56 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small cell In-Reply-To: <000001c87a47$1db6b900$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Fantastic, can we now hear from a Caribbean beekeeper... Reply: You want to hear from a good Caribbean beekeeper well into Small Cell write here,and also for what is going on in islands, etc: dave_coool@hotmail.com D ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************