From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:11:40 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.2 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C3C04909B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3Y7I017265 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0802E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 36354 Lines: 905 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:40:21 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <001201c87a6d$e90a2800$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carl Webb I can understand what you are saying, but after over 25 years of doing, and showing others, and without all the doping treatments/artificial feeds, all I can say is, that until you travel the path, you cannot see without doing, and doing takes a good 3-5 years, to see how the bees react basically, and then the rest is a continuous learning curve for your whole life. Is there solid research to say it works? WEll, I personally think there is, and written about, and in quite a bit of detail, though not the way rationalized by most of todays factory farming trained more modern beekeepers. Also, the most recent is o/s in EU and not here and quite detailed. For small cell beekeeping is also a wholebee beekeeping system that takes into consideration, environment, breeding, and food; and how naturaly done, then works in harmoney with nature, and her plants the bees forage upon, in local/regional areas. For the road up in artificially upsizing the bees that threw things out of balance is also the road back. You don't have to accept SC beekeeping on faith, for all it is is basicaly changing the comb, to set things in motion, and then understanding the changes it makes, as you see it physically coming about. Nothing hard. But bees on LC comb vs SC comb react differently in the real world, and quickie 60-90day to 6 month experiments/research don't work, due to the adjustment the bees must make with queen shifts, etc and local readapting that requires a longer time frame for seeing/noting. But still it is not hard and many are doing it now with the organic list with over 1800 members and growing, learning and passing information on. But doing is your choice...... I myself don't see the evidence that the current upsized 5.4mm you talk about is better, while bees continue to die in record numbers industry wide, while those going back to pre upsizing sized combs which are smaller SC are now getting happy, healthy bees again without the usage of artificial feeds and all treatments. You say you want proof of SC working. LIke how? In the beginning I and husband were told change nothing but the comb and we'll see (USDA researchers here telling this to us/me). Well that is now practically a quarter of a century ago and I am still going without treatments and nothing else changed! How much is physical proof? One family commercial like me, or several beekeepers from all over the USA and several foreign countries doing same, which it has now grown to today (over 1800 formal members not counting those informally several times that number and growing worldwide)......and yet beekeepers like you keep saying show me the proof! WEll, all I can say is come and physically see for yourself........Been down that route many times, and so far no one disappointed from what I know. As for published papers, it is out there and more coming, besides the archives for reading. As for you wanting the mental to do. Only you can decide that, I cannot. Then you must also be willing to do the work necessary to make the change; and only you can do this, I cannot...... Best Regards Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:25:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD in Italy In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10802281302g4bd737u5afb5b4a4862b740@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Here's a Google translation of the summary of the multifactorial study: The problems reported by beekeepers are multifactorial in nature and are the predominant factors Pests and diseases -- Proper management of hives is a crucial factor for the health of colonies -- The treatment of seed with systemic products is not held responsible for adverse effects on Colonies of bees Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:16:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Small Cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For an alternate viewpoint, visit: http://www.bwrangler.com/bee/sxpe.htm > The implications of my observations should be good news to other beekeepers. Because most of the onerous small cell process can be changed or eliminated. And the possibility exists to advance beekeeping by rescuing it from the industrialized concepts of the past. And focusing on a more natural way of working with the bees. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:34:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: 40% of Saudi Households Use Honey as Alternative Medicine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII 40% of Saudi Households Use Honey as Alternative Medicine Prevalence and Pattern of Alternative Medicine Use: The Results of a Household Survey Annals of Saudi Medicine, 2008 January-February;28(1):4-10 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/02/40-of-saudi-households-use-honey-as.html Background and Objectives: Alternative medicine (AM) encompasses all forms of therapies that fall outside the mainstream of medical practice. Its popularity is on the increase. Because previous surveys were limited and not generalizable, we estimated the prevalence, pattern and factors associated with use of AM in the community... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:15:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > For an alternate viewpoint, visit: > > http://www.bwrangler.com/bee/sxpe.htm I have always thought that Dennis' work was the best and most balanced I have seen on small cell. Made a believer out of me. One problem I now have with studies coming from the western US is, supposedly, AHB was released there earlier than when it arrived naturally so any feral bees there are suspect. We know that AHB is compatible with Varroa and is on small cell. Love to see some bees sent to a bee lab for analysis. If they are pure with no AHB, then the work is validated. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:24:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: small size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dee Lusby, Thanks. I see that the small cell theory is bigger than I realized. I = understand that there are many believers and also that small cell = foundation is commercially available. I have often thought that the = Italian bee in the US has been selected for large size. Is there a = relationship between breeding for larger queens and worker bee size?=20 Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:30:52 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: small size In-Reply-To: <001401c87ade$cb0526e0$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carl Webb Is there a relationship between breeding for larger queens and worker bee size? Reply: Yes actually there is, and this relationship has been used and talked about in old ABC and XYZ Bee Culture old books for doing and how to's. Then once rationalized how to do it, it was done and carried out throughout Europe and the USA and other countries, especially during the first half of the last century. Unfortunately,in doing so, the bottom rung was cut off, and in past decade or so the middle run has now also been eroded causing much problem with genetic variability, severely weakening our countries gene pools, when interlaced with today's factory farming methods for quickness, etc. Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:57:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Mike_Bassett?= Subject: Re: new york bee keepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lloyd Spear wrote: >Unfortunately, the law seems reasonably clear that the property tax >exemption only applies to new construction. See >http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A06524. > I sent an email to the author of the bill and the person who suggested it to the assembly member but neither has responded. see http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A06524&sh=t as far as i can see this is the actual bill and there is no mention of new construction. this bill only adds item (E) to the exhisting law and the above is the text of the law. I would print a copy of the above and bring to your town assesors and they should be able to tell you. The part of (E) that says " including those structures and buildings used for the storage of bees " was intended to let your include building that you stored supra's etc in, but it seems to have lost something in the translation. mike bassett lafayette n.y. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:58:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <47C8137A.9020602@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > One problem I now have with studies coming from the western US is, supposedly, AHB was released there earlier > than when it arrived naturally so any feral bees there are suspect. We know that AHB is compatible with Varroa > and is on small cell. Interestingly, the AHB, was derived from A. m. scutellata, the Savannah bee. In South Africa, where it is native, it wasn't originally mite tolerant. It took 6-7 years of varroa pressure to evolve such tolerance. Similarly, in South America, the AHB performed well against the nonvirulent Japan haplotype of mite, but collapsed as the Korean haplotype (which we have in the US) replaced the Japan mite. However, the AHB again evolved tolerance. Data from Peru suggest that African genes would be currently working their way into the North American EHB genome, and that we will not see any morphological change. The AHB is a warm-climate bee, and therefore (likely due to thermodynamics) a smaller bee. Thus it will likely have a smaller cell. Allsopp's thesis (posted earlier by Peter Borst) does not support the hypothesis of small cell being the prime factor in AHB resistance to varroa. I am not in the small cell nor large cell "camp." I'm a data guy. I've seen Dee's bees, and they appear to be very healthy, and free of mites. Whether Dee's explanation as to why that is is true, I don't know. There is a notable paucity of good controlled trials, and that is why I undertook the HSC trial. However, that trial was not a small cell trial per se--it was a trial of HSC, which just happens to also be a small cell size. As I note in my discussion, the apparent effect against the mite could have been due to other factors inherent in the plastic HSC frames. Now, for an update: Yesterday, I went to the almonds to check the colonies. Nearly all the HSC colonies had collapsed. There was not typical PMS symptoms--the brood looked healthy, and no sign of DWV. The one sample that I tested had about a 15% mite infestation. Brood that I sampled had some mites, but they were not overwhelming. There were no nosema spores. In addition, the two treatments (HSC and controls) had been in a relatively isolated apiary, and cold, wet weather would have prevented significant robbing from any collapsing colonies. So I doubt that the HSC colonies went down due to a "domino effect." There certainly appear to be serious virus issues in some operations in the West. Colonies are collapsing without high mite levels, nor the other usual suspects (including pesticides). My guess, currently unsubstantiated by data, is that the relatively high mite level in all the colonies in the trial (remember, no colonies received any mite treatments) allowed the virus(es) to get the upper hand. I will be sending in samples for confirmation. Based upon my experience in other yards, a single fall treatment would likely have saved at least the HSC colonies. The bottom line is that the HSC colonies appeared to significantly decrease mite buildup (by whatever means), but that due to unforseen factors (perhaps viral), the colonies collapsed in February, during cold, rainy weather (cold appears to be a common factor with the collapses we're seeing). Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:13:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] CCD in Italy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by gttmaximilian@TISCALI.IT to = the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of = previously posted material. ________________________________ From: Massimiliano [mailto:gttmaximilian@tiscali.it] Sent: Fri 2008.02.29 13:47 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: [BEE-L] CCD in Italy Dear Randy,=20 sorry for my bad english,=20 You write:"-- The treatment of seed with systemic products is not held=20 > responsible for adverse effects on=20 > Colonies of bees=20 But this is not true=20 In Italy, There are well-documented cases of deaths of bees due to the=20 sowing of maize seed tanned with neonicotinoid. During the sowing, the=20 powder with neonicotinoid settles on the flora and bees the next morning = collecting the dew and death.=20 Regards, Massimiliano Piedmont Italy=20 see also,=20 ISSN 1721-8861 Risk of environmental contamination by the active = ingredient=20 imidacloprid used for corn seed dressing. Preliminary results Moreno = greatti=20 Dipartimento di Biologia applicata alla Difesa delle Piante, = Universit=E0 di=20 Udine, Italy=20 Abstract Aim of the study was to detect the possible loss of a.i.=20 imidacloprid through the fan drain of pneumatic seed drills during corn=20 sowing operations. The experiment regarded Gaucho=AE dressed corn seeds. = In=20 order to detect air contamination, paper filters were positioned at the = air=20 output of the fan; in addition grass and flower samples from green areas = near fields were collected immediatelyafter the corn had been sown. = Residues=20 of imidacloprid were found both in the paper filters and in the grass = and=20 flowers samples. Quantity of imidacloprid in the paper filters increased = with increasing exposure times. The results confirm that the air is=20 contaminated by a.i. imidacloprid during normal sowing operations using=20 Gaucho=AE dressed corn seeds. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:13:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: CCD in Italy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by gttmaximilian@TISCALI.IT to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. Dear Randy, sorry for my bad english, You write:"-- The treatment of seed with systemic products is not held > responsible for adverse effects on > Colonies of bees But this is not true In Italy, There are well-documented cases of deaths of bees due to the sowing of maize seed tanned with neonicotinoid. During the sowing, the powder with neonicotinoid settles on the flora and bees the next morning collecting the dew and death. Regards, Massimiliano Piedmont Italy see also, ISSN 1721-8861 Risk of environmental contamination by the active ingredient imidacloprid used for corn seed dressing. Preliminary results Moreno greatti Dipartimento di Biologia applicata alla Difesa delle Piante, Università di Udine, Italy Abstract Aim of the study was to detect the possible loss of a.i. imidacloprid through the fan drain of pneumatic seed drills during corn sowing operations. The experiment regarded Gaucho® dressed corn seeds. In order to detect air contamination, paper filters were positioned at the air output of the fan; in addition grass and flower samples from green areas near fields were collected immediatelyafter the corn had been sown. Residues of imidacloprid were found both in the paper filters and in the grass and flowers samples. Quantity of imidacloprid in the paper filters increased with increasing exposure times. The results confirm that the air is contaminated by a.i. imidacloprid during normal sowing operations using Gaucho® dressed corn seeds. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:50:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Russian bee Winter survival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While checking my bees the other day I suddenly realized that they are = wintering better than my bees did back in the 80's before we had either = type of mite. The winter here in the mountains of north Georgia has been consistently = cold and since Christmas, damp. I had a chance to make a cursory check = of my bees and found a winter loss of less than 2%. The clusters are = also larger than usual and I attribute that to good dry weather during = the Fall goldenrod flow. This is good for I have commitments to raise = queens and sell more than 100; 5 frame nucs in April. The honey flow = begins on May1. Interestingly my neighbor beekeepers who wintered other than Russian = bees have losses amounting to 50% of their hives or even more. One of my = neighbor beekeepers has booked to purchase 300 packages because of = severe winter loss and hopes to make up some losses by splits. Since we = keep bees in the same area the difference can only be the pure Russian = stock. I extend my sincere sympathy to all beekeepers who have severe winter = loss. There is indeed a cause that hopefully will be soon found. Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:39:36 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802290858x5025d61egd2a7fa7bfe5e2cf8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, > Yesterday, I went to the almonds to check the colonies. Nearly all > the HSC colonies had collapsed. Well, this is not so good news, but the good news is some did survive according to your testimony. Do you have the privilege of saying how many are left in both treatments and what the ratio of mortality is? Survival to me is what is important, mite counts as far as I know can be deceptive to what the bees may be doing inside the hive. Thanks Randy for you work in this area of study. God Bless, Keith Malone **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:16:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Russian bee Winter survival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 29/02/2008 23:44:52 GMT Standard Time, mtnhoney@ALLTEL.NET writes: The honey flow begins on May1. Don't forget that this is a Leap Year. The flow might be a day late! Here in the UK we don't often get anything that could be called a 'flow' unless the local farmer plants rape for example.. Honey does come in, of course, throughout the season but in sporadic and unpredictable times and amounts. The only thing that you can depend upon is that this year will be different to last. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:41:13 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: CCD in Italy / Acronysm meaning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Massimiliano Piedmont Italy writes: Abstract Aim of the study was to detect the possible loss of a.i. imidacloprid through the fan drain .... sorry the off topic, but can anyone clarify me with the meaning of the used acronysm "a.i." in this sentence? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:19:40 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD in Italy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Massimiliano Piedmont wrote: > You write:"-- The treatment of seed with systemic products is not held > > responsible for adverse effects on > > Colonies of bees Thank you Massimilano, for an alternative view. However, I wasn't expressing an opionion, I was merely quoting the conclusions from the Italian study. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:24:47 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Do you have the privilege of saying how > many are left in both treatments and what the ratio of mortality is? Hi Keith, Yes, the one advantage of being my own boss, and living on the pitiful income that I wrest from my love for beekeeping, is that I have the priveledge of saying anything I want! We were working pretty fast, but I believe that all 10 control colonies are now toast, and that 5 HSC colonies were still surviving. I will soon check mites. I may run the trial again on the HSC equipment, to see if they can survive with just a wee bit of help in dealing with the mites! Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:16:00 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Yesterday, I went to the almonds to check the colonies. Nearly all the HSC colonies had collapsed. Reply: Sounds like our shakedowns with first year on small stuff (4.9mm) and getting rid of the 90% that didn't fit the mold, and from there on positive growth back. But then 90% was predicted by USDA researchers we were associating with, for predicted crashing for not being able to make it back to a natural system. So you think you seeing same scenario sorta? Just what actually are the numbers that made it vs those that did not, being curious? Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:26:47 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802291624u15dec4a5v281acbd1e4b300ae@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy Oliver: I may run the trial again on the HSC equipment, to see if they can survive with just a wee bit of help in dealing with the mites! Reply: 10 lost in control and only 5 with HSC isn't bad and better perhaps then what we/I went thru, but still don't really know complete numbers. But so far from what written looks okay. As for just a wee bit of help in dealing with the mites........ Just as I was told to have a legit experiment and to actually see what was happening.......... Please!!!.........don't do this and follow the bees and watch the 5 remaining and see where things go. If you do the trail again. please follow same course. For if the bees are to revert back to natural really!, you gotta let'm do it without the crutches so you can see the full parameters of what you then have to deal and work with.....and it probably won't be a bad as what you think, then building back pot progressive........ Regards and keep going, playing it straight for the bees! Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:27:28 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802291624u15dec4a5v281acbd1e4b300ae@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Randy "We were working pretty fast, but I believe that all 10 control colonies are now toast, and that 5 HSC colonies were still surviving" n= 10? Mortality Control = 100% HSC = 50% is that rigth Randy? BTW what is PMS Symptoms? PMS will suffice! -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:34:18 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802291624u15dec4a5v281acbd1e4b300ae@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Thanks for replying Randy. > We were working pretty fast, but I believe that all 10 control > colonies are now toast, and that 5 HSC colonies were still surviving. > I will soon check mites. The news is better than first announced. Not knowing what may have caused the collapse, maybe you could see how the HSC hives do left to their own to survive. Or is their condition so terribly bad that they can not make it? > I may run the trial again on the HSC equipment, to see if they can > survive with just a wee bit of help in dealing with the mites! Whatever it was that was able to snuff out 75% of the trial seems pretty bad top me, maybe the survivors have a special quality that needs to be preserved and maybe it was that they were actually on Small Cells that help to enable them to survive? God Bless, Keith Malone **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************