From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:10:29 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-77.3 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, ADVANCE_FEE_3,ADVANCE_FEE_4,AWL,DEAR_SOMETHING,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, MILLION_USD,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E540849093 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3Y7A017265 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0803A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 221746 Lines: 5059 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:07:10 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: CCD in Italy / Acronysm meaning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hola Juanse > sorry the off topic, but can anyone clarify me with the meaning > of the used acronysm "a.i." in this sentence? Active ingredient. Formulations of pesticides can include carrier compounds, surfactants and the like, so this is used to give a standardised measure of the pesticide content. all the best Gavin **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:05:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Re HSC trial. This wasn't a small cell trial! It was a trial of HoneySuperCell fully drawn plastic frames. They do have small cells, but I don't know if that was the reason for the slower mite buildup. I think that some may be reading too much into this. In my neck of the woods, we are seeing colonies collapse with low mite levels, and no nosema. It appears to be viral, and dependent upon having some mites. The HSC colonies entered winter with (apparently) fewer mites, based upon the indirect measurement of natural mite fall. I did not confirm with a direct measurement, since I expected the colonies to survive winter. The control colonies crashed first when cold weather hit (a common observance); the HSC colonies followed not too long after. I doubt that the crash, or lack thereof, had anything to do with cell size, but more with mites and viruses. On the other hand, HSC appeared to greatly suppress mite buildup, possibly due to cell size. This fact might be of interest to beekeepers who wish to minimize mite treatments. Dee, I'd be happy to let the survivors run the course if it looks like they have a chance. I will check mite levels next visit. Although I admire the goals of the organic beekeepers, I doubt that many commercial beekeepers would be eager to sustain heavy losses in order to further "the cause." However, those beekeepers may be interested in any biotechnical method that reduces mite buildup such that only minimal natural chemical treatments would allow them to keep their operations afloat. I've spoken today with some large commercial beekeepers. These are smart guys who have successfully kept bees for many years. They invested more work and effort in their colonies this year than ever before. Yet some of them are just watching their bees die and die and die. I am still shaken from hearing their despair and frustration. Nosema ceranae is running rampant in some operations-- these guys are calling me and buying scopes to do their own testing. Others let mites get a bit too high midsummer, and paid the price months later with viral collapses. Some are not sure what is hurting them. I do not feel that their problems are a reflection on their beekeeping methods, since they successfully ran great bees even a few years ago. They haven't changed anything. Problem is, nature changed. We've got new parasites and viruses. Any beekeeper who hasn't changed their management to reflect this is likely going to have problems. Small cell beekeepers are not immune to this. Randy Oliver Watching good beekeepers struggle **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 06:59:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bee Venom May Protect Against Acute Pancreatitis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Bee Venom May Protect Against Acute Pancreatitis Effects of Bee Venom on Cholecystokinin Octapeptide-Induced Acute Pancreatitis in Rats Pancreas, 36(2):e22-e29, March 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/bee-venom-may-protect-against-acute.html Objectives: Bee venom (BV) has frequently been used as a remedy for inflammatory diseases. The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of BV on cholecystokinin octapeptide (CCK-8)-induced acute pancreatitis (AP) in rats... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:34:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy wrote; However, those beekeepers may be interested in any biotechnical method that reduces mite buildup such that only minimal natural chemical treatments would allow them to keep their operations afloat. Randy, are there any salient differences in the performance of different = bee stocks? Exposure to disease and parasites is extreme in = concentration yards so we are not talking about organic beekeeping.=20 Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:54:51 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Small Cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi randy, i'm glad to hear you are doing these experiments. we started 25 packages on hsc (5 frames) last spring, and then used foundationless to expand from there. with the exception of (2) single deeps (from splits), all have drawn up enough for 2-3 deep boxes (including the 5 frames hsc). all told, we went into winter with 20 colonies, and have lost the 5 weakest...the rest are doing well. spent some time talking to max (who manufactures hsc) at the organic conference (great guy). although he recommends using hsc instead of regular frames, we see them as a regression tool. one of the obvious differences between hsc and sc comb, is the spacing. in sc comb, you have a much denser population. in hsc, the cell walls are thick, so that the density is much closer to that of 5.4 comb...this may be an important factor for population size/density, thermodynamics, queen laying patterns, etc. did you start with 10 of hsc and 10 control? we did feed dry sugar in winter on the top bars (we did not harvest any honey). the hives we lost never touched the sugar, and started with smaller clusters. one theory i have is that there simply wasn't enough metabolism going on to create enough moisture to process the sugar. the rest of the colonies seem to be having no problems taking dry sugar. deknow -- randy oliver wrote: We were working pretty fast, but I believe that all 10 control colonies are now toast, and that 5 HSC colonies were still surviving. I will soon check mites. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:18:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy writes: “Although I admire the goals of the organic beekeepers, I doubt that many commercial beekeepers would be eager to sustain heavy losses in order to further "the cause." I’m not a small cell beekeeper yet, but I really have to stop and think about the above statement. Isn’t it really like saying no one would want to sustain heavy losses in order to prevent heavy losses? I mean here we are; large scale commercial beekeepers are suffering terrible losses right and left, many on the verge of going out of business and there’s this whole group of beekeepers saying we have the answer, we’ve been doing this for 25 years. The Lusbys, by the way, think they are commercial beekeepers. An outfit would not have to convert their whole operation all at once. One could convert a percentage at a time. If you didn’t do it exactly as prescribed, though, and it didn’t work you would not be able to say small cell doesn’t work. Also Randy, while I’m on your case, if you do an experiment and you don’t measure certain parameters such as mite load and then both the experiment and the control crash what have you learned? You would have to be looking very carefully to know if there were any colonies that had absolutely no mites and did not crash, but that would tend to support your hypotheses that the crashing was due to virus at low mite level. Otherwise it is possible those viruses could be completely independent of Varroa mites, or that the crashes were due to some other cause. Did you test for Tracheal mites? Could the same be said about them, that they might carry lethal viruses even at low levels of infestation? What other possible vectors for viruses might there be? Also, Randy, while I’m on your case, I understand the financial sacrifices you make for the love of beekeeping, but it can’t be all that bad. At least you can afford a brand new microscope ;>) Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:03:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: African bees are doing better in America MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "Is hybridization an essentially random process?" Zayed said. When the African honey bees mated with the western European honey bees that had been in South America for centuries, one might expect that the hybrid offspring would randomly pick up both the functional and nonfunctional parts of the genome, he said. "But actually what we found was there was a preference for picking up functional parts of the western European genome over the nonfunctional parts." In repeated invasions of a new territory, the honey bee, Apis mellifera, can benefit from the genetic endowment of those bees that arrived in earlier territorial expansions. It appeared that the Africanized bees that kept some of the functional western European genes were gaining an advantage, Whitfield said. "Those African bees are doing better because there were western European honey bees there for them to mix with" http://www.news.uiuc.edu/news/08/0225honeybees.html **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:03:09 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <20080301.095451.8752.0@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline deknow one theory i have is that there simply wasn't enough metabolism going on to create enough moisture to process the sugar. Could it be possible a dehydratation of those 5 colonies because of location, think with respect the others. Were they doing as wind break for the others? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:00:19 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Small Cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit juanese, good idea, but the affected hives were spread out within a 15 hives in a straight line, facing out. deknow -- Juanse Barros wrote: Could it be possible a dehydratation of those 5 colonies because of location, think with respect the others. Were they doing as wind break for the others? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 17:37:25 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/03/2008 13:19:16 GMT Standard Time, randyoliver@INFS.NET writes: Nosema ceranae is running rampant in some operations-- these guys are calling me and buying scopes to do their own testing. I have spent the day at a microscopy workshop where we prepared slides of Nosema ceranea from a sample kindly provided by the Central Science Laboratory and were unable visually to distinguish them from the N.apis samples. The lab people who do it for a living can't be sure by looking and so use a PCR machine. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:44:23 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <001201c87ba9$4f10ce10$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carl Webb talking to Randy: Exposure to disease and parasites is extreme in concentration yards so we are not talking about organic beekeeping. Reply: Also in looking at what Randy wrote with all 10 dead in control group and 5 in HSC group, I am assuming only 50% died in the HSC group which isn't bad in the deadly mix of bees brought in for Almonds and hearing of crashes badly out there. Besides when we/I first when down with second regression of whole outfit at same time with changing the comb only to 4.9mm top tolerance we lost 90% and got rid of all the slack at once not making the shift. Randy correct me if I am wrong......with HSC you are above this ratio by a good bit! which looks good to me and in an area with bees brought in from all over and probably much drifting going on and that means high transfer of mite loads to consider when checking, and still perhaps 50% of HSC hive are going yet........... Now get them out of there and keep them expanding with the coming year and then adding in regular 4.9mm wax foundation and would certainly like to see where they are come years end...............and without any dopes added, including mild ones as you say...... REgards, Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:25:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve suggested: > An outfit would not have to convert their whole operation all at once. Hi Steve, many are doing that kind of experimentation. > Also Randy, while I'm on your case, if you do an experiment and you > don't measure certain parameters such as mite load and then both the > experiment and the control crash what have you learned? I did measure mites by a "standard" method--natural 48-hr mite drop every week (did you read the article--it's posted to my website for free viewing?) I chose to disrupt the colonies as little as possible, and had planned to take initial mite levels in early spring. In retrospect, I wish that I had taken them in the fall. The main focus of the experiment was to see if colonies started on HSC would be productive and thrive without treatments. Therefore, I measured weights and frame strength directly, mite level indirectly. Plenty of data collected for an unfunded experiment. > You would have to be looking very carefully to know if there were any colonies that had absolutely no mites and did not crash, Not sure I follow--I can check the ones that did not crash to see if they had mites. Visually, it looks like yes, based upon the guanine deposits on the cell ceilings. But none of the colonies appear to have had sky high mite levels. Did you test for Tracheal mites? Steve, how far do you live from Grass Valley, Calif? Give me your cell number, and I'll invite you to help! I can use eager volunteers such as yourself. What other possible vectors for viruses might there be? Work by Chen, Higes, etc suggest viruses vectored vertically in semen and eggs and in corbicular pollen. > Also, Randy, while I'm on your case, I understand the financial sacrifices you make for the love of beekeeping, but it can't be all that bad. I can deal with the poverty. It's my poor kids who get embarrassed having to go to school without shoes. I tell them that I had to spend the money on science... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:25:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <001201c87ba9$4f10ce10$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Randy, are there any salient differences in the performance of different bee stocks? Yes, huge differences. But it is hard to get pure "stocks" as production queens. There are monster colony-to-colony variations in tolerance/resistance to all pathogens. All that I've investigated appear to be heritable. We could sure use some more breeders with semi-isolated mating yards. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:45:00 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: GMO based sugar syrup blend coming next Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Although it is highly unlikely that any GM protein (the bit with the modified genes in) will end up in honey, the customers, on this side of the Atlantic at least, tend to regard anything associated with GM as something to be avoided. Having just returned from Europe, I noticed and appreciated the fact that your food packaging clearly indicates if the contents include GMOs. A practice that should be required on this side of the great water as well. In the UK, do they allow up to 15% sugar feed content in the canola honey, one of the earliest crops, as they do in some continental European countries? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:36:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: GMO based sugar syrup blend coming next MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/03/2008 23:24:58 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.NET writes: In the UK, do they allow up to 15% sugar feed content in the canola honey, one of the earliest crops, as they do in some continental European countries? Certainly not! If people want sugar they can buy it for a fifth the price of honey. It is simply fraud to pour sugar through a hive of bees and pass it off as honey. In my opinion all sugar fed to bees should be dyed so that it is obvious if it gets in the wrong place, especially the honey jar. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:00:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10802292205x63c5d9b3t34eb5e3bdd6dd676@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Randy & All, I am getting busier by the day. The last few days I have had to almost ask for help getting up the stairs to the house at the end of a long day but getting many things done. Sorry for those people which have emailed. I will answer when I get the time! Randy we agreed we would compare notes on beekeeper losses. I started to email direct but thought the list might find interesting. here are a couple comments but still need to contact other beekeepers for the big picture. > Others let mites get a bit too high midsummer, and paid the price > months later with viral collapses. The above is behind many of the recent issues. Actually not only getting the treatment on late but in some cases treatments which they are using simply are not working. Without checking for mite levels before and after and also not knowing if the treatment months before worked I am having a hard time figuring out what is going on! Mite & nosema control is an absolute necessity to keeping hives alive today. When asked about varroa control they simply say. I have done like I have done for the last few years and treated summer with ----- and fall with -----. Then they say " what i have been doing for several years and has always worked before!." Seriously Randy some of these guys need to take the time and sit down and read your articles! > I do not feel that their problems are a reflection on their beekeeping > methods, since they successfully ran great bees even a few years ago. > They haven't changed anything. Change is what separated the successful beekeepers from the above! Maybe I am too blunt ( have been told so before) but it seems in many cases the only time the above beekeepers ask for help is when hives are crashing! Because of almonds many outfits are trying to run a higher number of hives than they can manage with the help and equipment they have got. The largest outfit in the U.S. is a prime example which those on the list close to the outfit will agree I am sure! Also trying to keep "dinks" alive in fall which should be shook out on the ground is not sound beekeeping! Never before have I seen commercial beekeepers keep genetics around which are on 3-4 frames of bees in fall when all the other hives are on 10-12 frames. A "dink" is a "dink" and the queen needs a hive tool! The hive never produced all season but many want to haul to California and add some brood to get into almonds. After almonds you still have the same "dink" with a poor grade queen. Almond pollination in my opinion is causing some of the problems and beekeepers chasing the "Gold in California" are not thinking things through. Randy what I am about to say might shock a few on the list and create an uproar of" hey wait just a minute" but I am only reporting from data I have gathered. Randy start *asking* those in trouble if they are still feeding HFCS. I started asking from the start of my checking and a pattern soon emerged. Those which are feeding sucrose had good bees and in many cases the best bees ever. Those which have been doing like *they have for decades* and feeding HFCS are having problems with dwindling colonies. Dramatic difference in wintering. I reported in the April ABJ pg. 323 that the bees fed HFCS lived half as long as those fed sucrose. The same exact experiment was done at the Tucson Bee lab ( Roy Barker)years before and reported in ABJ with the same findings. Why are the bees living half as long? Not yet determined as the bee lab pulled Pamela Gregory off her research and *told Her* to study SHB. I really don't need to wait until somebody discovers why the bees lived half as long. I thanked Pamela Gregory and switched to sucrose as did many others) and the bees look better than ever! Again: You have to control varroa & nosema before those trying to figure out what is going wrong in your outfit can help find the other issues. Most of the industry switched to sucrose after Pamela Gregory's several presentations ( AHPA & ABF) on her research and my April 2007 ABJ article. Then pressure was put from above in the USDA to stop the HFCS research. Her confrontations at bee meetings came from those selling HFCS to beekeepers. Pamela was surprised and replied she was only reporting the results of her experiments! Check and see if those you have spoke with Randy are feeding HFCS. Would really help my research to see if your survey findings concerning HFCS vs. sucrose is similar to what I am hearing. Most of the outfits having problems are still feeding HFCS. Please email (or post on BEE-L) when you find out. Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 19:25:25 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: GMO based sugar syrup blend coming next MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/03/2008 23:46:32 GMT Standard Time, CSlade777@AOL.COM writes: In the UK, do they allow up to 15% sugar feed content in the canola honey, one of the earliest crops, as they do in some continental European countries? Tell me which continental European countries and I will ask my local Trading Standards people to look into it. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:31:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: GMO based sugar syrup blend coming next MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Chris has hit on a VERY good idea. I feel that dying sugar water with green dye would be the best way to keep sugar water out of honey without any question. Are there any honey that is green in color? I have seen some with a light tint of blue--Bitter weed honey. Red would not work since popular has a reddish tint. What are the thoughts of the BEE-L? Lionel **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:54:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Viruses: was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy Oliver says: "Steve, how far do you live from Grass Valley, Calif? Give me your cell number, and I'll invite you to help! I can use eager volunteers such as yourself." I would consider it a privilege and an honor, and I would have already done so but alas I live on Whidbey Island in Washington State and am no stranger to poverty myself, being a poor potter by trade. If I ever get a chance, though, I will be glad to help out and be happy to learn a thing or two in the bargain. An experienced beekeeper such as your self certainly has every right to his or her hunches, but it seems to me that this virus thing is extremely hard to pin down. If, as you suspect, lower levels of Varroa infestations are resulting in increased colony mortality because of the viruses that the mites supposedly carry, then either bee immune systems are getting less robust or viruses are evolving more virulent strains or both. Can you think of any logical reasons why this might be happening? One thing that comes to my mind is that one or both of these factors could be appearing as an inadvertent result of breeding programs that focus on other more easily identifiable characteristics. For example, hygienic behavior might not be of any advantage in protecting against viruses that come at the bee immune system from an angle that is not dealt with by such behavior. If the breeding focus is kept narrowly on hygienic behavior to the extent that the immune system that would itself directly confront a threatening virus is allowed to drift or lapse through an inadvertent removal of selective pressure, then over time you might find that the virus becomes a more serious problem than the mite or whatever that was the visible target of the desired hygienic behavior. By a similar token, if you breed for characteristics that limit the path that the virus takes to get to the bee, you might well be inadvertently selecting FOR viruses that are increasingly able to take advantage of the reduced opportunity by becoming more lethal or using less guarded paths. Once a lethal virus enters the picture there apparently is very little anyone can do. You can't even say for certain in the case of honey bees if it was a virus that killed your colonies even though in a lot of cases it's a pretty good bet. Anyway, Randy, if what you suspect is true, and it seems reasonable enough to me, then it means the viruses have come home to roost. What can be done about it? You would have to be willing to stop fighting certain things in certain ways, and let nature take it's course. We might be talking cold turkey here. This is the position small cell organic beekeepers take, and if they are right we will all owe them a great debt of gratitude one day, because we will all be buying our bees from them. Not yet though. Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:55:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy, you wrote: >This wasn't a small cell trial! It was a trial of HoneySuperCell >fully drawn plastic frames. They do have small cells, but I don't >know if that was the reason for the slower mite buildup. The thought just occurred to me; where do the bees build drone cells = when they are on HSC? If they are able to build some then do they build = as many? We know that varroa prefers drone brood. It seems that without = the ability for the bees to build drone cells and raise drone brood that = could result in fewer mites. I know that many are anxious to prove the = small cell theory but I do not believe that they wish to arrive at false = conclusions. What have you observed? Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 03:17:16 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Maryann Frazier speaking March 8th in Worcester County, MA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ...thought this might be of interest to some in the area. deknow Saturday March 8th 2008 Monthly Meeting Saturday Half day meeting March 8, 2008 8am -1pm Place: Knights of Columbus Hall Leicester, MA Speaker: Maryann Frazier, Penn State University Topic: Chronic Collapse Disorder This Saturday program will feature bee expert Maryann Frazier from Penn State University, who is on the cutting edge of research on Chronic collapse Disorder along with her colleagues at Penn State. One has only to look at the internet site for CCD to immediately see the many published articles and national interviews and film clips by Maryann Frazier on this topic. She is one of the nation's leading authorities on CCD. She will give us the latest on this disorder. I am thrilled to have acquired such an expert as our speaker. She will also do a talk on Bee nutrition which ties right in with the other topic. This will be a sensational meeting and I urge all of your to attend as this is our latest challenge in the beekeeping world. So set this date aside now and get your questions answered on this topic. This meeting is FREE to all beekeepers. 8-9am coffee, danish and bee talk 9-10:15 Colony Collapse Disorder and its Implications and Impact 10:15- 10:30 questions 10:30 - 11:00 coffee break 11:00 - 12:30 Bee Colony Nutrition and the Implications 12:30 - 1:00 Questions and answers Directions to the Leicester Knights of Columbus for the WCBA monthly meetings Monthly Meetings and many of the Special Events of theWCBA are held at the Knights of Columbus Hall, Manville Street, in Leicester, Massachusetts. Directions From Webster Square in Worcester: Follow Route 9 West, a major road, into Leicester. 2 miles from the town line turn right onto Manville Street, just after Entwhistle’s Garage. Directions From Spencer or Leicester: Follow Route 9 East. Turn left onto Mannville Street just before Entwhistle’s Garage. The entrance to the Knights of Columbus Hall will be on your left within ˝ mile on Mannville Street. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 04:20:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: GMO based sugar syrup blend coming next MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/03/2008 04:25:52 GMT Standard Time, smoothevans@PCLNET.NET writes: Chris has hit on a VERY good idea. I feel that dying sugar water with green dye would be the best way to keep sugar water out of honey without any question. It's not my idea. It's been done before. When sugar was rationed after the War (WWII) beekeepers were given an extra ration which was dyed green to prevent misappropriation. The following year there was a lot of green honey about! Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:42:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <97537.85705.qm@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Also in looking at what Randy wrote with all 10 dead in > control group and 5 in HSC group, I am assuming only 50% died in the HSC group which isn't bad in the deadly mix of > bees brought in for Almonds I am sorry for poor reporting--please realize that my priority in almonds was to go through hundreds of colonies to remove dinks before grading. I was taking samples today of test colonies that didn't make grade to check mite levels. One of the control group is still alive, with relatively low mite levels and no nosema. Ditto with one of the HSC. I will clarify the status when I check back Monday. >Randy correct > me if I am wrong......with HSC you are above this ratio by > a good bit! which looks good to me and in an area with bees brought in from all over and probably much drifting going Doubtful much drifting. Colonies were brought in, weak, weather was not conducive to flight or robbing. > that means high transfer of mite loads Again, doubtful. In almonds this time of year, at least in the orchards I'm in, there aren't many mites. > still perhaps 50% of HSC hive are going Yes. Question is, are they going up or down? > Now get them out of there and keep them expanding with the coming year and then adding in regular 4.9mm wax foundation Good suggestion, Dee, but this is a test of HSC, not small cell per say. No wax foundation. That would be another test! > and would certainly like to see where they are come years > end...............and without any dopes added I'll see how they're doing. Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:47:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Chris said: we prepared slides of > Nosema ceranea from a sample kindly provided by the Central Science Laboratory > and were unable visually to distinguish them from the N.apis samples. The lab people who do it for a living can't be sure by looking and so use a PCR machine. Hi Chris, I'm seeing tremendous variablity in spore shape and size. I thought that I found some N apis in some colonies with dysentery. However, when I sent them in for PCR, they were all N ceranae. If anyone has a sample or slide of N apis, I would love for you to send it to me! Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 21:57:29 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <453A2EF695024059B5A65634BD0CED9C@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Bob, I agree with all your observations! Anyone doing things the same as a few years ago is gambling seriously. What I keep hearing is that what worked a few years ago no longer works! Mite thresholds are a thing of the past. Many shifting to sucrose, or 50-50 blend. Lots of nursing of dinks. High mites or poor nutrition in late summer = collapse. Amazingly, some very strong colonies are being produced with only minimal mite treatments. Others have treated on a weekly basis all fall. There are management strategies that I will write about. Most is common sense and diligence. Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 22:18:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Viruses: was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Steve, >then either bee immune systems are getting less > robust or viruses are evolving more virulent strains or both. Can you think of any logical reasons why this might be happening? I'm guessing more virulent strains, coupled with low-to high level N ceranae, and often poor nutrition. RNA viruses mutate like crazy. Virulent strains die out if colonies are widely spaced, but not if they are close together. Unfortunately, there are tremendous numbers close together (tens of thousands close together in Calif holding yards). > One thing that comes to my mind is that one or both of these factors > could be appearing as an inadvertent result of breeding programs that focus > on other more easily identifiable characteristics. I agree. Our focus has not been on diversity, outbreeding, and conservation of genetic diversity. > then it means the viruses have come home to roost. What can be done about it? You would have to be willing to stop fighting certain things in certain ways, and let nature take it's course. I think that Nature takes her course, whether we "let" her or not! : ) >This is the position small cell organic beekeepers take, and > if they are right we will all owe them a great debt of gratitude one day, Funny you should say, I just corresponded with a prominent organic beek (other than Dee) to ask about what they are experiencing with virus problems. One very large organic group in Calif is experiencing unprecedented losses. I'm visiting them next month. I am not an organic beek myself, but I strongly support their efforts. Unfortunately, they are not immune to epidemics. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 22:21:32 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <000a01c87c10$e3e2ed40$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > The thought just occurred to me; where do the bees build drone cells when they are on HSC? Hi Carl, I mention this exact thing in the discussion of the article. In this particular trial, I purposely avoided tearing into the colonies, so as not to add additional variables. In this trial, drone season was largely over by the time the colonies were large enough to produce them. I will check this season. Anyone else have an answer? Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 06:09:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Bee Venom Therapy Used to Treat Foot Warts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: Bee Venom Therapy Used to Treat Foot Warts http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/video-bee-venom-therapy-used-to-treat.html **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 09:46:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Subject: Re: denatured sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, whilst keeping bees in Ireland in the '70's the subsidised sugar was in fact dyed green and once had a bittering agent added. This was done to stop people from using it to make jams, they said; but more likely to stop people making Poteen. Peter > > Chris has hit on a VERY good idea. I feel that dying sugar water with > green dye would be the best way to keep sugar water out of honey without > any > question. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 12:49:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] denatured sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by digman@ANIMAS.NET to the BEE-L = list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously = posted material. ________________________________ From: Barry Digman [mailto:digman@animas.net] Sent: Sun 2008.02.24 18:04 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: [BEE-L] denatured sugar For those who aren't familiar with Poteen... http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Article/785672 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 09:46:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: nosema (was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update) In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10803012157m45d77ca1h50f6d716c1772612@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Randy & All, My take of the current nosema issue. The problem is not as much which nosema you are dealing with as much as your past history of nosema control. I have spoke with commercial beeks which have never treated for nosema. Now they have got a crisis and trying to control with fumidil and are happily ( very very happily) being sold all the fumidil they can afford by bee supply houses. Fumidil is in short supply now if you have been waiting to order. Betterbee is out and not sure when they will get replacements as well as Drapers. Without addressing the spore issue ( as is done in other areas of the world by acetic acid ,other less common methods or comb replacement) then you getting into an area similar to treating all the time for foulbrood because your comb contains the spores because you chose to simply treat to control instead of burn to eliminate. Back to nosema. The nosema C. ( for teaching purposes I like to say nosema C. instead of N. cerana as some beekeepers get confused and think I am talking about the bee cerana) is without a doubt harder to control. Jerry Hayes wrote in his column last year that in Europe at times beekeepers have had to treat three times a year for control. Fact and also in extreme cases in the U.S. I will address next. I personally believe that those beekeepers had to treat three times a year because they had comb with huge spore loads. Randy has been trying in my opinion to point to spore loads as the way to decide on a course of management. I agree but *if* you have never treated for nosema and Nosema C. has been in the U.S. for a decade then in my opinion you have got a nosema issue and most likely nosema C. is hives are crashing and testing shows high spore counts. Our bee researchers dropped the ball by not finding nosema C. in our U.S. bees when arrived instead only when the CCD issue hit! I am the guy which takes on the tough issues. I tell beekeepers what they do not want to hear! So hear goes again! News flash! Many cringe when our researchers speak of rotating out a couple frames every year and at the end of five years all comb is replaced. A sound practice but is not a sound practice in an outfit crashing from high loads of nosema spores in combs. YOU HAVE TO REPLACE OR STERILIZE ALL COMBS AT ONCE! Our friends from the U.K. on this list have done many posts on the subject ( thanks!). They use acetic acid but there are other ways. However before you decide to go through the hassle of treating all combs ( it IS a big hassle! using acetic acid) you need to *consider* all the chemicals in those combs. Replacement of all is what I recommend. If you replace all comb and then quit using the hard chemicals then you move into the realm of easier mite control and certainly easier nosema control. The virus contamination is reduced. The ways many beekeepers are converting whole outfits to new comb are many and best talked about later but I can name many outfits eliminating all the comb from the operation to eliminate spores and contamination. The largest bon fire of bee frames in the world burned three and a half million old combs. Testing is the way to tell for sure exactly how contaminated your outfit is. Then you can make an intelligent decision on what is best for you are your pocket book! Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 11:14:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Re: Viruses: was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy writes: “One very large organic group in Calif is experiencing unprecedented losses. I'm visiting them next month. I am not an organic beek myself, but I strongly support their efforts. Unfortunately, they are not immune to epidemics.” It is not at all surprising to me that an organic outfit would get nailed by a newly empowered virus. Leaving the question aside of whether we know it was a virus that killed these colonies, I would ask if this organic outfit keeps large numbers of colonies in close proximity to each other which as you mentioned gives rapidly mutating viruses a huge opportunity. Another question is will this outfit rebuild from the survivors of this devastation or will they go out and acquire bees from programs that use the more specifically focused breeding programs that I mentioned before; programs that may not have had to deal with said virus? And while we are at it, if we are agreed that some breeding programs have at least the potential to inadvertently create problems while intending to solve problems, it seems to me a careful examination of the breeding practices of a large organic outfit might be in order. This is all stuff for much more expert beekeepers than myself. That’s why I am considering making a donation to the Randy Oliver foundation. Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 09:10:08 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: HSC trial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve Noble asked whether I had checked for tracheal mites. A very good question! Let me ramble on a bit. Few experiments go as planned--especially in the field. I have great examples that I give my students of how Murphy's Law kicks in, or the Law of Unintended Consequences plays out. In the Discussion section of a paper, suggestions as to how the experiment should be run next time, or additional data that should be collected are discussed. I have no intention of taking research away from the academics with labs, graduate students, and need for grants and academic advancement. They are in the position to perform the meticulous dissections, PCR analysis, etc needed to determine the details of why something happens. I've been there years ago. What I see in bee research is that simple experiments to test practical beekeeping methods are not sexy enough for academics to perform--they just wouldn't polish their resumes. Beekeepers often need to see results of "quick and dirty" trials that test for what is important to them: Will X kill mites or nosema? Will X let your colonies produce more honey? Will X make you more money in almonds? The beauty of these questions is that they can be answered by measuring simple data--mite counts, spore counts, colony weight, frames covered by bees, etc. These data can be collected with the simplest of tools--mainly your eyes and a pen. These experiments are simple, yet they test important management issues. They can test the actual efficay of things such as small cell for mite control. The results can be immediately applicable in bee management. However, they are unlikely to determine the mechanisms that cause the results. To understand the mechanisms, we need meticulous researchers who task out to their students tedious jobs like tracheal mite counts, protein levels, microscopic dissections, chemical analysis, etc. This is where the academics excel, and I strongly support them, communicate with them, and avidly read their results. I encourage beekeepers to perform their own controlled trials, and share the results. I plan to write an article soon describing just how to set up controlled trials, and some pitfalls to avoid. So Steve, yes I wish that I had taken tracheal counts, plus post capping durations, etc. However, the results that I obtained suggest that there is some factor about HSC that suppresses mite buildup, and I am glad to contribute some good data. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 17:28:45 -0000 Reply-To: ruaryrudd@iol.ie Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10803012147t42256ae9o2942e786059a9553@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Randy, I think that is the trouble in distinguishing between Nosema ceranae and apis. Where as in general ceranae is shorter and narrower than apis, the ranges are such that thre is considerable overlap and so mere morphometry is not sufficient. I will see if I can get you some apis, Please send me your address off list. Ruary -----Original Message----- I'm seeing tremendous variablity in spore shape and size. I thought that I found some N apis in some colonies with dysentery. However, when I sent them in for PCR, they were all N ceranae. I Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 17:29:37 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: GMO based sugar syrup blend coming next Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Tell me which continental European countries and I will ask my local Trading Standards people to look into it. I visited my beekeeping uncle in south-western Poland last week. We inspected a few of his hives together taking advantage of the unseasonably nice weather there (16C/64F in the shade). My uncle uses in-hive heaters starting in February to get his colonies to full strength for the canola flow which normally starts in the 1st half of May. (The bees transition from dandelion & fruit trees right into canola.) With the mild weather this year, the canola plant development has already started and, if the weather pattern continues, the canola bloom may start in the 2nd half of April. At this time, hazelnuts and alder trees are supplying good pollen. My uncle selectively feeds thin sugar water to any colonies low on stores. I asked him if there was a problem with sugar getting into the early honey. He said the packer who typically buys his crop checks the honey for a number of chemicals, water content and sucrose contamination. He said, based on his feeding practice, there should be very little if any sugar getting into the canola honey but that nevertheless the regulation allows for up to 15% sugar in the canola crop. This allowance frankly surprised me as my own limit is zero although the size of my crop did not make testing economical. Here in NY, I am nowhere near canola and my early crop is typcally from black locust and autumn olives in the 2nd half of May... I am not sure what sucrose limits other countries set. Waldemar Long Island, NY **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:49:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Small Cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dee, Do you find the cell size is uniform across the comb? Nowadays I tend not to use foundation beyond shallow starter strips. I find the bees draw a range of cell sizes ranging from 5.1 or 5.2 in the core of the brood area to about 5.4 - 5.7 in the upper corners that are mainly used for storage. My bees are local mongrels of probably Amm and Aml and I am situated in southern England at about 51 N. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 19:07:30 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Sucrose Content in Honey in UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi The Regulations in the UK (there are four sets for the four separate Countries but all the same on this point) state: 1.2. Sucrose content - in general not more than 5 g/100 g - false acacia (Robinia pseudoacacia), alfalfa (Medicago sativa), Menzies Banksia (Banksia menziesii), French honeysuckle (Hedysarum), red gum (Eucalyptus camaldulensis), leatherwood (Eucryphia lucida, Eucryphia milliganii), Citrus spp. not more than 10 g/100 g - lavender (Lavandula spp.), borage (Borago officinalis) not more than 15 g/100 g Using this information, the limit for sucrose in honey produced from a crop of oilseed rape (brassica napus) appears to be 5%. This UK regulation implements EC Directive 2001/110 so the same limits should apply throughout the EU Regards Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 15:46:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Tolerance/Resistance to Pathogens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy reported: >There are monster colony-to-colony variations in tolerance/resistance to all pathogens. All that I've investigated appear to be heritable. I believe that nearly every controlled experiment comparing Russian bees = with Other U.S. bees has shown fewer mites, greater survivability and = greater honey production. Why are they not in wider use? Why are no large queen breeders selling = pure Russian queens? Why are large almond pollinators who raise their = own queens not using Russian queens? Here are some thoughts on the subject that may answer some of these = questions: 1. Many of the more prominent researchers at beekeepers meetings have = made disparaging remarks not based on fact that have discouraged their = use. 2. Researchers, other than ARS, who have conducted comparative = experiments that have shown favorable results have been reluctant to be = advocates for Russian bees because of reasons that I can only suspect = but not say positively e.g. need to support the queen and bee production = industry that is producing other bee types. 3. Queen and bee producers have been able to sell all of the queens and = bees that they produce regardless of the type so why change. 4. Beekeepers unwilling to make changes of management technique. 5. Chemicals are readily available and when one does not work, = beekeepers can pressure researchers to come up with another one e. g. = tylosin 6. Shop towels 7. Researchers wanting to make their name on some PPM device or = technique. The list could go on.=20 I was not surprised that Russian bees were given very little attention = at the Sacramento meeting. Last year I gave a presentation on Russian = bees at the Austin meeting and was assigned to a room so small that = people who wanted to hear me could not even get close to the door in the = hall. This year I decided not to attend the Sacramento meeting. The ARS researchers have done their job. They have given us the tools = that we can use to enjoy beekeeping again. This will be my 9th year with Russian bees. We could all enjoy = beekeeping again without poisoning ourselves and our bees with = chemicals. I am not looking for queen or bee customers. I produce queens = for myself and for a few others. Wish I had the ability to supply the = demand. No gimmicks, just run keeping bees again.=20 Please do not misunderstand me. I do not believe everyone should keep = Russian bees. I believe we should maintain all races or types of bees. I = also believe that researchers and breeding should continue to work with = all types. I do believe, however, that they are a solution for many.=20 Were it not for Russian bees I would have quit beekeeping several years = ago. Thanks to those who have labored to make them available. Thanks = Baton Rouge ARS. Carl Webb =20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 16:16:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) They are predicting a cooler than average March & April in Upstate NY based on like years with weather patterns that we have experienced this past winter. Could be tough on presently good looking colonies. But..... IT has always bothered me that we (beekeepers) have looked to the mites as our problem. Colonies collapsing from mite, ie PMS, never really looked like the action of mechanical attack by mites. It always had the ring of a pathogen outbreak. Pathogen outbreaks tend to sweep through a population fast & furious. I believe mItes to be just a visible symptom of the real cause. No mites slows the buildup of virus vectoring yeilding no collapse. Its easier to detect the mites than the virus. Its also interesting to hear .... This colony had mites but looked better than my other apiary that was just collapsing. So just speculating--we are seeing new pathogens at work--new interactions or newly introduced predators & pathogens. Its interesting to hear the Dr. Cox-Foster talk of the interaction of mites salivary injections & the breakdown of worker bee immune response to otherwise non-lethal microbes. We also should not rule out the encroachment of Africanized genes-- know one really knows how this is affecting our populations --as many of our queens come from AHB areas. We experience the arrival of many truck loads of bees into the NE from the south. Are we getting a smattering of Africanized genes? I experienced Varroa in N. Africa prior to their landing in the US & got my first US varroa mites after "the trucks " arrived & dropped hives in my area! One day no mites-- the next lots! IMHO we are experiencing the evolution of a new microbial ecosystem, pathogens, fungi, bacterium & virus. The mites are at the center but only a incidental player. Mites do their thing (as far as we know) without the aid of other organisms. These organisms as introduced are freeloaders interacting on their own volition causing much of our problem--they are the bottom line in our issues--thats where I place my money!!! Perhaps another trait to breed for would be virus resistance! Mike **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 23:07:24 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Carson asked: Any help in locating US origin oil would be appreciated. http://www.treatt.com/AboutTUSA.aspx Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 16:07:55 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Viruses: was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10803012218l9313832xe136f12053676c07@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy Oliver: I am not an organic beek myself, but I strongly support their efforts. Unfortunately, they are not immune to epidemics. Reply: Good when you visit them, report back on any controls used by them, though being organic, they shouldn't be using any; as this could be a part of the cause of the problems they are now having, as some organic seem to think that soft treatments are okay to use, which to me they are not, hence could be a reason for outbreaks of various diseases/pest problems over the long-haul. Would be very interesting to me for comparing notes. and probably very interesting to others also, then comparing. Dee- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 16:20:01 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10803012221j2c780520l998d9ed863bc685a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > The thought just occurred to me; where do the bees build drone cells when they are on HSC? Reply: What we advise beekeepers using it since beginning of it's being made and looked at for product, is to use it for starting nucs 100%, and then when being used good, frames are placed into a hive by transfer to then put into the gut of the broodnest and work 4.9mm around to finish filling out the broodnest. If they draw it bigger or smaller the wax frames it is their choice. If you want 100% HSC then you have to add drone comb and or modify some of the HSC frames for drone, which many have done by cutting diagonals the old way on corners or taking a section off the bottom, or simply putting in some foundationless frames, to use 9 frames or 8, instead of 10 frames in a deep, and that way there will be enough gaps for burr/brace combs with drone cells..though messy. I consider it a regression tool for fast sizing bees down in nucs and not whole hives. If you want whole hives then you must use it a little differently. D ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 19:41:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: GMO based sugar syrup blend coming next In-Reply-To: <001001c87c0d$882c68d0$22fa494c@bige953ca8f8be> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 1-Mar-08, at 9:31 PM, Lionel Evans wrote: > > Are there any honey that is green in color? I have seen some with a > light tint of blue--Bitter weed honey. > > Hi Lionel and all Purple Loosestrife has a greenish honey which is collected here in July and August. I don't like the idea of putting something else in the hive even though its food grade. Anyone who wants to mix sugar into their honey will do it and find a way to eliminate the colour. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 17:12:43 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris: In areas where apiaries are in line and I control the area more or less, with no other beekeepers, like 15 miles plus...the bees drawout uniform across whole frames side to side and top to bottom. In areas where other beekeepers are present, depending upon what they are using comb wise,bee wise, there is variance with smallest size in core of broodnest, and largest to perimeters and top area. In those yards I am constantly interfacing with fresh dumped swarms from baskets from Tucson and GreenValley municipal areas and having to regress, the difference is really like you are seeing and due to mixture of whatever stock is currently in those areas and constantly being brought in by hobbyist beekeepers/sideline and commercial, and makes for much headaches.These are basically staging yards to me. But go a season and I can even most of this out by shifting out swarm ketching frames I start the bees with, cutting out own comb and mounting. Once switched over to drawnout frames from other colonies I get by extracting, that are more uniform in size, the probem then stops considerably, as queens are shifted. Then I move the colonies to other yards after weeding out ones I don't like, while changing out the swarm ketching frame combs not good sizing wise. When I move then the bees to other yards, I keep in mind what I am moving, so that the better go to the yard lines I have full control of, and the lesser go to the ones I interface with, with other beekeepers. Basically you won't get uniformity of sizing until bees uniform pretty much in coloration which is also signal they are acclimitized majority for your immediate area. Regards to you Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 20:09:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Preliminary Survival Report MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank2/25/08 Brief Background: Mite Control =3D Drone brood removal (two years) Due to snow depth only able to get to one yard so far, 22 colonies. 4 of = which much neglected in distant pumpkin field. 3 DO's, two of the above neglected pollinators. One colony was trying to = make up for all the CCD collapses, two full supers of dead bees. Seven = of above had over wintering nucs of which four survived.=20 I practiced drone removal all season, removing honey supers to = accomplish task, A LOT of work but ended up with great bees and honey. I = am of the opinion that mites need to be controlled more than just spring = and fall at least right now, I expect that with time (how many years?) = this can be relaxed.=20 Has it been determined if VHS bees are as susceptible to CCD? I would = think by now there would be enough data to determine that. COMMENTS? Alden Marshall, NH=20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 17:00:37 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe carson Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10803012147t42256ae9o2942e786059a9553@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy, I have a great set of pictures that I just took at the University of Zagreb= . I would be happy to burn you a copy and send when I get to a place in th= e States where I can get it to you. Also, the latest study in Europe that = I am aware of and a part of finds that the PH of the honey bee changes with= Nosema. We have tested with NOZEVIT and found that it corrects the PH imb= alance which allows the inner intestinal tract to regain it's elasticity an= d therefore inhibiting the Nosema from joining or "impaling" the inner wall= . After just a short period the Nosema starts passing through the Honey Be= e and the spore count drops precipitously. =20 We treated the second time 10 days later and found an amazing difference in= spore count. We are hesitant to claim"therapeutic" results. Our tests an= d on going test show in the field and in the lab an extremely effective and= different approach to the Nosema situation. =20 Field results in Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, and Aus= tria show identical results. We have beekeepers suffering substantial,(up = to 100%) never before realized losses in these countries, while those using= NOZEVIT - in close proximity to those previously mentioned - are seeing l= ittle to no winter losses as of this week. =20 These studies mirror the previous studies conducted by a private chemical c= ompany that has since passed from the scene because of the Bosnian war. =20 As a side note; the largest producer of 100% wax foundation in that part of= Europe produces only 4.9 foundation. Also, he produces about 46 different = sizes! The only standard is the cell size. He would love to have only thr= ee foundation sizes! The most popular size is the AZ, pronounced ah-zhey. I appreciate your ongoing studies. Dr. Joe Carson EKO Beekeeping Source "Your ecological source for innovative beekeeping supplies." _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.=A0You IM, we g= ive. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=3Dtext_hotmail_join= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 20:32:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <20080301.095451.8752.0@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I try to stay out of the small cell debate as about every point has been discussed on BEE-L over and over many times. I will make one comment. In the tropics and in Florida when a flow is not on the bees back down to 3-4 frames of brood. Commercial beekeepers needing strength up for a future flow, splits or a strong pollination unit has to feed to maintain colony strength. I think we all realize that varroa knocks out your strongest hives first. The reason is the higher the amount of brood the faster the reproduction rate for varroa. When I check a yard for varroa I always check the mite drop on the strongest hive. I have little time to check all 24 hives in a yard for mite drop. After keeping over 400 hives of Russian bees (over several years) and a 100 hives of varroa tolerant survivor bees I came to a realization. Of course those selling Russian and varroa tolerant did not agree but I am not far off in my hypothesis I believe. I removed a couple survivor hives from buildings and noticed the hives were small an on a few frames of brood. The bees did not want to build up but survived varroa but were unproductive. I had to give frames of honey to get the hives to make it through the winter. The test is in the archives and I left those hives alone for two years. They had varroa but no PMS. Finally I treated as I do production hives. thin syrup for several months as needed and then the main honey flow. Both hive increased brood rearing and the varroa population increased also. PMS happened in August and then both crashed. Selecting for survivors in my opinion is like selecting for queens which keep small clusters. bees are better able to handle varroa with a small cluster. High levels of brood production seem to kick in the reproduction of varroa. Certainly there are genetics which help with controlling varroa but commercial beekeepers depend on mass quantities of bees. Hives with 8-12 frames of brood at times right before a major honey flow or pollination. Small cell might have some value to help with varroa control but I am sure from private testing that a hive downsized on small cell when cranked up in December in California and fed thin syrup after almonds keeping strength up and then moved into the Dakotas for a honey crop will either need treating in August /September and is going to crash from varroa/virus if untreated. Under the above circumstance all untreated were dead by October. Of course that's not the pressure Dee, Dennis Murrel or JoeW. puts on their hives. I would suggest all beekeepers which do not crank their hives like commercial beeks do to invest in some small cell to try. I feel if I am going to have to treat I might as well keep the cell size I run. The downsize loss is too expensive to end up still having to treat. If I am going to treat then I might as well run my favorite Italians. They are predictable as opposed to my Russian and carniolans ( which I also have got yards of) which shut down brood rearing every time the weatherman ( often wrong! ) predicts bad weather. I start building brood for a honey flow by feeding a light syrup. The Italians at the end of the time period have got the bees I need. The Russian, varroa tolerant and carniolans are usually about two weeks short on bees as the queens have shut down for one reason or another. Don't get me wrong I think the above are productive for hobby and sideline but my yards of carniolans and my two yards of Russians will be behind the Italians by about two weeks at super time. We have got what we call blackberry winter in Missouri. About the time the blackberries bloom we seem to always get a week of very cool weather. The bees are in cluster for around 20 hours a day. All my carniolans and Russian queens shut down egg laying even though by then they have got plenty of bees to keep brood warm and being fed they have got plenty of ready feed to generate heat. A seven day shut down at 2000 eggs a day makes me come up 14,000 foragers short. At 3000 eggs a day I would come up 21,000 bees short. Some shut down completely and other queens drop to a small circle of eggs in a couple frames. My Italian lines keep on cranking out brood! My experiment on queens shutting down during blackberry winter ( or any cool weather period) for races other than Italians is in my opinion why the Italians are stronger at super time and produce an extra box of honey. Finally if you only run Russians or Carniolans you have nothing to compare your brood production to. most likely enough for you to make splits or whatever but you need to run both to see the difference. My 2 cents worth. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 23:22:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Tolerance/Resistance to Pathogens In-Reply-To: <001201c87ca6$78efdca0$6897fea9@webbhoney> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Carl & All, Carl asked: Why are large almond pollinators who raise their own queens not using Russian queens? > Carl I know you love your Russians and none of us have a problem with the way you feel. I will address the above question. I was NEVER able to send any Russian bees to almonds. Big loss of money to keep a hive and not be able to use. I had Russian hives rejected in Apples. I am serious! The Russians winter on too small of clusters and are the last to start brooding up in spring. When doing research for one of the almond pollination articles I was asking around for commercial beeks which had been screwed by California brokers. One such case was Hubert Tubbs (Russian queen breeder and like Carl from the start). Hubert ( phone conversation) told me he had received a call from a California broker begging for hives. Hubert said he could send a semi load of Russian bees. Nothing was said about frame count. Hubert loaded up a semi of his bees and shipped. After the bees arrived Hubert got a call from the broker. The broker said " These bees are only on 3 frames and will not pollinate" . I might add what California grades as 3 frames is 4-5 in my opinion. Huber said: That's the way Russian bees look in January ( what mine look like in january in Missouri!). Hubert said once on almonds they would build quickly ( which is what I have seen but under current grading the Russian hives simply will not grade most of the time). The broker refused to pay Hubert for even his trucking. Hubert figured he lost around twenty thousand dollars on the deal. Hubert would not tell me which broker screwed Hubert because he is a a class above the broker. When I did the article I had plenty of similar stories so I didn't even need to use Hubert's. If you think the above is not the way it happened give Hubert a call and ask Hubert. I have kept Russian bees around for many years. In fact I am getting some Russian queens from Hubert for my Russian yards this spring. I support the Russian project but we need to face certain facts about races of bees. For you and many others the traits of the Russian bee work perfectly. You asked and I tried to answer as best I could. The Adee's used Russian genetics one year as did the Brown's but they were crosses and the people I spoke with said the outfit went in a different direction the next year. My experience is with Russian/Russian and keeping those bees in yards by their selves. They are the most varroa tolerant of all the *races* of bees I tested. The blue line were very aggressive but were the line I liked best. Sincerely, Bob Harrison " proud owner of two yards of Russian bees!" " **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 22:33:09 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: nosema (was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update) In-Reply-To: <54B0555F812945349E17B4FBBE0BB8F7@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Randy has been trying in my opinion to point to spore loads as the way to decide on a course of management. Hi Bob, Higes in Spain feels that N ceranae (the bee is cerana) spores at any level require treatment. Eischen's data indicate that colonies with low spore counts went into almonds stronger with protein feed and no fumagillin--but this was not a strong finding, and needs replication. What I'm finding in my small operation is a black/white situation most of the time--either zero to virtually no spores, or plenty of spores. There is very little middle ground. In my operation, that means that the decision was easy, and no counting was involved. The threshold was essentially whether spores were present. Re sterilization, my next article covers that, and is in press. My web tech was going to get it posted this weekend, but it looks like it's not up yet. I'll post when it is. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 03:36:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Small Cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/03/2008 03:29:27 GMT Standard Time, deelusbybeekeeper@YAHOO.COM writes: Then I move the colonies to other yards after weeding out ones I don't like, while changing out the swarm ketching frame combs not good sizing wise. When I move then the bees to other yards, Dee, That must entail a lot of bee-handling. There are people who consider your bees must be Africanised. How do they handle? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 22:54:28 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Viruses: was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <530619.26152.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >when you visit them, report back on any controls used Hi Steve and Dee, These were widely scattered small beekeepers all over a large area. Most are strongly biodynamic/alternative/or organic. I will see what I can find out. Reality check for "organic" beekeeping. All species on Earth were "organic" until recently. They all had parasites, got sick, had epidemics, and most species that ever existed have gone extinct. Being organic does not make any species invincible! Dee, I don't think that pointing fingers at "controls" used is really an issue here. CCD is an equal opportunity killer. It can hit any operation, from the organic hobbyist, to the chemical-dumping pollination operator. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 23:04:28 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <1E11C2CE-B1C3-41E2-B450-921EBFE758FA@cornell.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline No mites slows the buildup of > virus vectoring yeilding no collapse. Its easier to detect the mites > than the virus. Mike, I'm in total agreement. Colonies without viruses can tolerate tens of thousands of mites. Add viruses, and they collapse. This has occurred in several countries that I've looked at the data. > So just > speculating--we are seeing new pathogens at work--new interactions or > newly introduced predators & pathogens. Yes to all! >the interaction of mites salivary injections & > the breakdown of worker bee immune response to otherwise non-lethal microbes. Don't forget nosema, and concurrent multiple viral infections! > We also should not rule out the encroachment of Africanized genes-- I don't want to cause a fuss, but this will likely be a good thing. African bees are hell on diseases, and viruses are almost nonexistant in feral scutellata and capensis! > Perhaps another trait to breed for would be virus resistance! I've already discussed with major researchers and breeders. This is the main reason I pushed for the IVDS machine in Calif. In addition, some mites have been shown to be resistant to DWV. They do not transmit it to bees. Colonies with those mites don't collapse from DWV! The more I look into all this, the more fascinating it is! Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:00:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: whether tolerance is a trait of the honey bee or varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Honey bee (Apis mellifera L.) tolerance to Varroa in South America Apidologie 30 (1999) A general question is whether tolerance is a trait of the honey bee or the expression of lower virulence of the mite. The following two facts support a mite-biased selection. 1) The shorter generation time of V. jacobsoni versus honey bees should favour the more rapid adaptation of V. jacobsoni to selection pressure. 2) By use of genetic methods, three different geographically isolated mite populations could be distinguished in America These groups may represent populations with different virulence (or perhaps tolerance levels of the host). The different reproductive ability of two genetically distinct V. jacobsoni populations from Germany and Papua New Guinea, respectively, has been demonstrated In the case of the V. jacobsoni-honey bee relationship, even a non-benign strategy could be advantageous for the mite: if environmental conditions favour the distribution of mites into neighbouring colonies from dying colonies through robbing or drifting bees. In general, it depends on environmental conditions, parasite and host density and gene flow within the parasite population whether a virulent or a benign strategy of the parasite is more adaptive. For V. jacobsoni, this question remains open. A host-dependent tolerance to V. jacobsoni is supported by comparative studies with Africanized and European honey bees in Brazil, which clearly reveal an influence of honey bee race Results from Uruguay demonstrate that V. jacobsoni tolerance is not limited to Africanized bees within a tropical climate. Unfortunately, we have to face the fact that V. jacobsoni tolerance is influenced by multiple factors of the host, possibly by genetically determined virulence of the parasite, and additionally triggered by environmental conditions. This combination of factors could create different modes and levels of tolerance depending on honey bee race, origin of the mite and climatic conditions. -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 06:13:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Neonicotinoids Blamed for Colony Collapse Disorder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: Neonicotinoids Blamed for Colony Collapse Disorder This video theorizes that neonicotinoids may be responsible for colony collapse disorder (CCD). http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/video-neonicotinoids-blamed-for-colony.html **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:50:47 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Viruses: was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- randy oliver wrote: CCD is an equal opportunity killer. It can hit any operation, from the organic hobbyist, to the chemical-dumping pollination operator. randy, i can't help but read the above as "management practices have no effect on ccd"...i have a hard time believing that to be true. deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:19:05 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Small Cell/HSC/Calif update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- randy oliver wrote: I don't want to cause a fuss, but this will likely be a good thing. African bees are hell on diseases, and viruses are almost nonexistant in feral scutellata and capensis! hi randy, i think what you write above is important. imho, what is special about the bees you reference (feral scutellata and capensis) is not their race, or the fact that they are feral...it is that they are not treated! deadly diseases are scary, and the first instinct is to treat or cure the disease. in a natural system (like in the ferals you cite), a deadly disease (or a deadly combination of disease) will kill the hive, making it difficult for the disease to spread to other colonies. nature is culling both the overly suseptable bees, and the overly deadly pests at the same time. even if the bee population is reduced by 99% in this process, what comes back into the now open niche is resistant bees and tolerable disease. if this is delayed by treatements, you end up many generations down the road with greater numbers and percentages of bees/disease that will crash. imho, it's not "african genes" per se, but genes that have not been shaped by artificially propping up weak stock and strong mites. these don't have to be african genes (although they may be a good source), but simply breeding from bees that are not killed by whatever is making them sick. it may be that the ehb genepool has been so thinned that ahb is the only good source. i do understand what bob h. was saying about breeding from survivor stock and the need to build up for the almonds, etc....and i don't find his claims/observations hard to believe at all. i don't have anything personally against anyone trying to make a living as a migratory beekeeper (and i appreciate the need for them in our current agricultural system)...but i think this whole system is likely going to break at some point, as for one reason or another, it will not be profitable to grow food the way we do (which relys on cheap transportation and processing). i'm not trying to bring this day closer by any means, but i can't really ignore that that is how the future looks to me, and i feel the need to build my practices around it. deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 06:22:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: whether tolerance is a trait of the honey bee or varroa In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline By use of genetic methods, three different > geographically isolated mite populations > could be distinguished in America > These groups may represent populations > with different virulence (or perhaps > tolerance levels of the host). Hi Pete, I don't have the reference at hand (am rushing down to the almonds this morning). It appears that the more virulent Korean haplotype of mite displaced the less virulent Japan type in South America since this paper was written. Yet the bees adapted. Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:39:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Viruses: was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update In-Reply-To: <20080303.085047.7658.2@webmail13.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > randy, i can't help but read the above as "management practices have no effect on ccd"...i have a hard time believing that to be true. Sorry, that's not was I was trying to say. It appears that one has less chance of suffering from collapse (I'm intentionally not using the term CCD, since I will leave that for the researchers to determine) if for the previous several months, colonies have been well fed, and have had low mite and nosema levels. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:18:43 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: <3900EB9EFA334837BA58036BD9F0F92A@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison: Small cell might have some value to help with varroa control but I am sure from private testing that a hive downsized on small cell when cranked up in December in California and fed thin syrup after almonds keeping strength up and then moved into the Dakotas for a honey crop will either need treating in August /September and is going to crash from varroa/virus if untreated. Under the above circumstance all untreated were dead by October Reply: Sorry I don't buy this, if really all on SC with 4.9mm top tolerance and not something 4.95mm or bigger.......or 5.0mm and still calling it SC which some are, for there is a difference and reason why we/I went from 5.0mm to 4.9mm and no bigger for our broodnest area. For when we did that the secondary infections were eating us alive with our bees. Going to 4.9mm top tolerance changed that and dropped secondary diseases for foul to 1-2% and haven't see chalk or other since! So all I can say is some talk small cell, but what is small cell now if some think they are on it but only in an intermetiate size, close, but not close enough, but close enough to blurr the actual goings on!!! fwiw. Now, let's be clear. With 4.9mm top tolerance, that means a lot of the stuff in my hives in the way of cell size are smaller and into the medium 4.8mm range of which 4.83mm was size by the way this country started with, besides the lower 4.7mm talked about by other early beekeepers, and that sure makes a lot a difference concerning diseases vectored in by ticks(mites) chewing upon the bodies of bees, which as time goes on will change pathogen to new pathogen or malady vectored in, for something new constantly for beekeepers to worry about... rather then getting off the treadmill in it's entirety. Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:40:01 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris: That must entail a lot of bee-handling. There are people who consider your bees must be Africanised. How do they handle? Reply: Well, when you consider early on we were told to change nothing but the combs to prove theory for control of mites and diseases, and we did, and hence have been called africanized due to sizing for the most part, what is africanized? But mites and diseases are under control. As for how they handle,.....well Chris, I am now a 61 year old woman this year, handling these bees using/prefering those half bee suits and rubber dishwashing gloves when I use any gloves at all. So with me working normally alone, it must be terrible hard hard woman's work and not the really hard hard men's work, with such mean mean hard killer bees!!! But in saying that I smile and go on yard to yard and enjoy working the bees, which seem to handle the way they always hive. And yes I use a bee brush in taking honey/working bees one frame at a time, which doesn't seem to rile them further......So you be the judge as to what is hot I guess for each has own standard for hot. For is one sting considered hot? or 2 or other and for how long? Besides many times I don't even light a smoker in working up or doing in a yard if it not worth my time for what has to be done.....(what I did during conference here with those crazy enough to follow me to field. we worked for the most part setting up knocked over hives with no smoke! rolling on). Regards to you, Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:13:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Re: Viruses: was Small Cell/HSC/Calif update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy and all, allow me to indulge in a little pontification The complex matrix of environmental conditions within which an insect lives is never static. Sometimes it is changing slowly and other times it is changing relatively quickly. If we use the classic definition of “species” which is any group having the ability to interbreed and produce offspring that are fertile, then I am guessing most bees in the genus Apis could be said to be in the same species. That species has been around for a long, long time and yet at the same time many sets of characteristics have certainly come and gone as the need for them changes. So while no one set of characteristics represented by a given sub-species of Apis is likely to stay intact over the long haul, given the natural variability within this diverse species, it is safe to say the species will survive even the radical and bizarre manipulations of its environment imposed by man. The question then is not whether honey bees will survive, but whether beekeepers will survive and what methods will they have to adapt in order to do so. And for the purposes of the beekeeper does the honeybee really lend itself to the levels of interference that modern agriculture has come to impose on it? We seem to be in a period of judgment on that question. It’s not that organically or alternatively or biodynamically kept bees are impervious to stress. But I think it is always smart to ask of any given stress that might be imposed, how this problem would be dealt with in nature in the absence of human tinkering. Given whatever your beekeeping goals might be, the idea is that to the extent that your beekeeping practices flow with the forces and tendencies of nature rather than against them, you will be at an advantage, especially in the long run. For me it is not a question of good or bad, but simply what works and what doesn’t work and more importantly what will be working in the future. I do think that some of these less industrial practices work more closely with this question of how nature would handle a given situation. It’s more or less built into so called “organic” methods whereas it seems the greater beekeeping industry is more focused on “How can we make these bees do what we want them to do?” which often boils down to “How can we keep these bees alive long enough to get through this year’s almonds?” As it turns out this approach may be too short sighted. It’s not just in beekeeping that this kind of thing is happening. The blind faith in a technological answer for everything results in farmers asking “What can we put on or in this corn to keep it from getting eaten up by bugs this year?” and “How can we keep the cost down?” which almost always translates into “How can we avoid paying for all the costs?” And so the beekeeper may be incurring some of the costs of the crop grower. But beekeepers may be incurring some of the costs of other beekeepers as well if the practices of one group are too short sighted and result in unforeseen problems that spill out into the greater beekeeping community. In fact this may be what is happening with respect to viruses. If it turns out that keeping tens of thousands of colonies in a single holding yard provides the ideal conditions for viruses to mutate and spread and these viruses then get shipped all over the country we would essentially have a situation where lots of stationary beekeepers would be paying a cost of keeping bees in giant holding yards; a cost for which they get no benefit. I’m not passing judgment on anyone here. And I don’t think anyone has all the answers. But these are elements of modern beekeeping that need to be kept in mind as we move into a future that will almost certainly look much different that the present. End of speech. Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:15:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Bioscope In-Reply-To: <518903.480.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I purchased a used laboratory Bioscope today. Made by Bioscope Manufacturing Co. in Tulsa , Oklahoma. The unit I have got is the model 60. The lab wholesaler I purchased the bioscope from had a general idea of how it works but I would love to hear from a bee L. member which has used the bioscope. I was a bit leery of the purchase but the bioscope looks like new and the only replacement parts are the bulb (general electric with the GE number on the case) and the transformer ( which are not hard to find). Light and transformer are working. For those not familiar with the bioscope the bioscope is a microscope (10/20/40 power with a add on piece which provides another 10 power. The bioscope has two enhance filters which I have no idea what they are for. They swing between the slide and the lens if you want a filter. A picture of a newer bioscope in use is in my American Bee Journal article on AHB in Florida. I looked through my ABJ's in the office and did not see the issue. I would guess March or April 2005. There are no eye pieces on the bioscope. You simple place the slide in place and the bioscope projects the picture on a white back ground. The way mine is designed I would not be surprised you could not project on a screen. wing venation? Too busy right now to play with my new piece of lab equipment but would love to learn all about the tool. Email me direct if not wanting to post on the list. I am running a few days behind on answering emails but will catch up maybe tomorrow if we get the big snow storm they are predicating. The bioscope is portable and built into a case (about the size of a lab dissecting scope). Not small but manageable. I have got a hook up for 110 volt on the bee truck so I might could use in the field . I use for the bee vac. I really liked the bioscope which Jerry Hayes let me try out at the Florida Apiary service. The Florida lab let me run some AHB samples. I learn quicker in the drivers seat as opposed to simply looking over a shoulder. Slide preparation and making precise measurements was the key to using the Florida bioscope. However their bioscope was hooked into their computer which recorded all calculated all wing venation measurement. The bioscope projected the bee wing on a piece of white background and the operator simple placed the pointer on different parts of the wing and clicked the mouse. The computer did the rest. Then a number was produced by the computer and when compared to a scale you figure the percent of AHB. The Florida lab also showed me how you could do wing venation without the computer and only using measurements. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:13:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Dr. Zachary Huang, Dr. David Tarpy, and Dennis van Engelsdorp at the University at Albany, March 29th, 2008 9 A.M. - 5 P.M. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association presents SABA's 2008 = Spring Seminar=20 March 29th, 2008; 9 A.M. - 5 P.M.=20 =20 Featured Speakers:=20 Dr. Zachary Huang of Michigan State University:=20 Honey Bee Photography and Do GMO Crops Affect Bees?=20 =20 Dr. David Tarpy of North Carolina State University:=20 Honey Bee Anatomy and The Life of a Worker=20 =20 Dennis vanEngelsdorp, Pennsylvania State Apiarist=20 CCD Update and Hobbyists Are the Future=20 =20 Location:=20 Lecture Center One (sub level), University at Albany, 1400 Washington = Ave., Albany NY=20 [ Same place as in 2003 - 2007 ]=20 =20 Cost: =20 Pre-registered, $25 each, received by 3/21. This includes refreshment = breaks. Lunch is available nearby.=20 Walk-in cost at the door: $35 each.=20 PLEASE NOTE: Due to the increasing popularity of the SABA seminars, it = may become necessary to cut off registrations and not allow walk-ins. = Announcement will be made on the website. Please register early to be = sure of a seat. =20 Presentations run consecutively.=20 Raffle drawings held at 4:45.=20 =20 Friday night Dinner:=20 SABA has arranged for a get-together dinner at a nearby restaurant the = night before the seminar. =20 Speakers usually attend. (Mark your registration and send $30 deposit.) = =20 Hotels:=20 This year SABA is not arranging a block of rooms at one hotel. 3 hotels = are extremely close by: Marriott Courtyard (518-435-1600) 1455 = Washington Ave., Marriott Fairfield (518-435-1800) 1383 Washington Ave. = and Best Western Sovereign (518-963-7666) 1228 Western Ave. =20 Vendors: =20 Betterbee and Brushy Mountain will each have a display and sales table.=20 =20 Questions? Contact Anne Frey (SABA@capital.net) Use seminar as the = subject line, or call 518-895-8744.=20 =20 Information and registration form available at: = http://www.adirondackbees.org/dl-docs/2008-03-29-seminar.pdf = =20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 23:40:13 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Organic Beekeeping Conference info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi all, for anyone interested, we have most of the presentations (1 to go) up, as well as photos and information on the next two conferences. http://www.beeuntoothers.com/2008organicconference.html deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:09:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Small Cell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/03/2008 17:04:59 GMT Standard Time, deelusbybeekeeper@YAHOO.COM writes: And yes I use a bee brush in taking honey/working bees one frame at a time, which doesn't seem to rile them further..... Thanks for the info Dee. As a commercial beekeeper you must be pressed for time. Roughly how long typically elapses between taking the lid off a hive and putting it back on? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:04:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Small Cell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dee Lusby wrote: >Well, when you consider early on we were told to change >nothing but the combs to prove theory for control of mites >and diseases, and we did, and hence have been called >africanized due to sizing for the most part, what is >africanized? Nobody is using the *size* of the bees or their combs to determine Africanization. The wing venation is the first criterion and a follow-up DNA test is required to confirm. Where African bees predominate, such as Arizona, or Texas, the chance of having bees free of Africanization is slim. When you say you changed nothing but the combs, you are in error. By not treating for mites, you have allowed susceptible bees to die out and natural selection produces a mite resistant bee (or a non-virulent mite) and this leads to hives that can survive. This is a good plan, of course -- let the mites and bees sort it out. This is what Mike Allsop observed in Africa. Several years after the influx of mites, the bees bounced back. He suggests that letting nature take its course is the key. (I don't know if this would work with European bees). They had small cells all along, and that did not prevent varroa mites from building up huge populations. No, the small cell isn't what did it, it was survivor stock that repopulated the forests and in Africa they use feral swarms to restock their hives. So far as I know, this is also done in Arizona, Florida, etc. where there are a lot of feral hives. These are no doubt mite resistant, and Africanized too. Maybe this points to us all using Africanized bees in the future... They are illegal in NY State. pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 21:35:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris Slade: Roughly how long typically elapses between taking the lid off a hive and putting it back on? Reply: Depends upon time of year and mode of work required. As you learn to do spring work-up runs, then equalizing, then honey getting, and then work-down runs. You also learn to run yards together for days work agenda when you can to gain time, and/or individually, when the real honey getting starts. Worse case scenario averages about 4 hives per hour, but these are then normally 5 deeps or more also on good locations, and you certainly want two beekeepers to a yard working to gain time if you can. If not then, with large yards past year or so have learned to simply work yards back to back two days in row and roll with the punches doing what I had to do. But normally you can average between 6-8 hives an hour depending upon work needed, but it is not a slow pace once started. You learn to eyeball bees and boxes and roll. Also you go sun-up to sun-down too!coverning as much territory as possible yard wise. Working and extracting at heaviest part of season with main flows is the worst like I said above, for a couple of rounds to the field/days,then extracting, and then crashing for a day to rest, prior to repeating, with no actual stopping until done. But let me add here, last two years haven't been that heavy for all yards, but enough to do what had to, to keep bees and local accounts while wrestling with climatic problems and other happenings. With luck this year will be different (fingers crossed). So far so good. At least I got bees to work with starting spring pretty much with what I went into winter with. Regards, Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 21:41:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Small Cell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter: The wing venation is the first criterion and a follow-up DNA test is required to confirm. Where African bees predominate, such as Arizona, or Texas, the chance of having bees free of Africanization is slim. Reply: Then when the samples given to several labs match I will believe this, until then, not having matching reports with bees from same hives and sample containers sent to different labs I will continue to think otherwise, especially with from what I have been told 25% still un-identifyable fwiw. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 01:21:26 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: High bee prices sting almond growers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.freshplaza.com/news_detail.asp?id=17081 LATE BLOOM, HIGHER PRICES COLONY COLLAPSE NATURE'S DANCE SOLVING THE SCOURGE -- Publication date: 2/25/2008 Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:36:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Lackey, Raymond J (US SSA)" Subject: FW: Interview Questions for Beekeepers, from Students MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Under the guise of public relations, some of you may want to respond to these students on their quest for data. It is one of the better thought-out student surveys that I have seen. =20 Raymond J. Lackey - Sweet Pines Apiary Phone:(631)567-1936 FAX:(631)262-8053 Cell: 631-707-1544 mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia, NY 11716-2176 web page: http://www.tianca.com/tianca2.html email home: lackeyray@tianca.com =20 From: speakbeak@comcast.net [mailto:speakbeak@comcast.net]=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 4:47 PM To: Donna Papanikolau Subject: Interview Questions for Beekeepers, from Students =20 Dear Sir or Madam,=20 We are a team of students, ages 10-11, from Webster Elementary,=20 Manchester, NH. We are competing in the 2008 ThinkQuest International Competition (www.thinkquest.org), 12 and under category. ThinkQuest is a competition where students research a topic of global importance, then create a website to teach other students. This competition is sponsored by Oracle Education Foundation.=20 The topic for our website is Colony Collapse Disorder. The goal of our website is to educate students as to the important role bees play in=20 agriculture. We have been researching this topic all year and have discovered all sorts of things that bug bees, besides CCD.=20 We do have some questions though, because it is important to know what is happening all over the world with the bees. We want our website to give a clear picture of the plight of bees worldwide. We a re hoping to hear back from as many states as possible, to represent beekeepers and their honeybees from all regions. It would really help our website if you could answer these questions! Thank you so much for your time!=20 Beekeepers=20 1. What state are you from? =20 2. How long have you been a beekeeper?=20 3. How did you become interested in being a beekeeper?=20 4. What kind (breed) of bee do you have in your hives?=20 5. Are your hives organic or non-organic? Why?=20 6. If you have both types of hives, which type has been more successful? 7. If you have worked with more than one kind of bee, do you have a preference or a favorite breed?=20 8. Which bees sting is the worse?=20 9. How often do you re-queen and why?=20 10. Are there crops specific to your region/state that your honeybees pollinate?=20 Questions About the Colonies=20 1. Have your colonies experienced any types of problems such as varroa mites, disease, or disappearances?=20 2. If so, when did you start to notice the disturbances? Did you find the=20 solution?=20 3. Has Colony Collapse Disorder or Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus effected your bees?=20 4. I f so what steps have you taken to minimize the damage to your bee colony?=20 5. Do you know of any other beekeepers in your country or that have been effected by CCD or IAPV?=20 6. Have you noticed if the climate or weather pattern changes, over time, have effected the bees in your colony?=20 7. Have you noticed an increased use of pesticides in your area that might have effected the bee colony?=20 Questions of General Knowledge=20 1. Do you have an arrangement with the local farmers to help pollinate their crops?=20 2. What crops in your country do the bees pollinate?=20 3. Is the quality of honey produced effected by outside influences or the type of bee hive or both?=20 Last Word=20 1. Is there anything you would like us to know about bee colonies that we have not asked?=20 2. Do you have any photographs we could show on our website, for educational purposes? We would be happy to provide a link to your website with th e photo. If so, could you please grant us permission to use the photo in our website?=20 Again thank you for your time, we are committed to educating our peers on the importance of bees world wide!=20 Respectfully,=20 Faizan, Jen, Jenna, Gulyetar, Thu and Jorge=20 Coach: Ms. Beakey=20 Assistant Coach: Mrs. Papanikolau=20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:47:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter & All, Peter said: The wing venation is the first criterion and a follow-up DNA > test is required to confirm. The Florida AHB detection system is the same as the Tucson system I was told for my American Bee Journal (ABJ) article. The confirmed AHB comparison slides were sent from the bee lab in Tucson. In Florida only cases of stinging deaths (animals) and to check the wing venation results to make sure the tests of wing venation are accurate are backed up by DNA testing. The wing venation test has a margin of operator error (which I reported in my ABJ article). The operator has to be very precise when they mouse click on the bee part points for the computer. The Florida lab showed me by clicking outside the range that the wing venation program would display error. Still a margin of operator error exists. I actually considered the process out dated. I would invent a system in which the computer takes a picture of both slides and moves over each other and does the calculations itself. Similar to FBI fingerprint analysis. FAST with a very small margin of error. Also as I said in my article the Florida lab said the test as currently being used was too slow because you had to do 10 sample bees to get an AHB confirmation. The program the bee lab uses used four bee body parts and if I remember correctly it took me around forty mouse clicks on those parts to do a single bee sample. So it would take slide preparation of ten sample bees and then 400 precise clicks to make a single conformation of AHB. Slide preparation is very important as any buildup of sealer makes the wing venation points hard to see perfectly. Jerry Hayes said he had asked the USDA-ARS for a improved wing venation test which only needed a single bee wing venation ( instead of 10) and what he really wanted was a field test in which he could grind up the sample. Place in a test tube and add a reagent and when the color turned a certain color he could tell a down and dirty quick diagnosis of AHB. In my opinion if you really needed to confirm AHB you would go directly to DNA testing and what I believe is the usual procedure. The Florida bee lab had shelves of bees waiting for AHB testing. I was shown some samples and asked to pick the samples I thought by looks were AHB. I got all wrong. I quickly learned its almost impossible to tell AHB by looking. I thank Jerry Hayes and the Florida bee inspectors I have met which have taken the time to provide information so the readers of ABJ can take a peek into the world of bee and hive inspection! I was stopped from entering the DNA lab but maybe in the future I can get in and get a few pictures and explain the process! Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:47:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: research microscopes In-Reply-To: <18198019.1204635180486.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Here is an example of a researcher from 1933 which was decades ahead of his time. If you think instrumental insemination is complicated I don't think you are ready to use the Royal Raymond Rife microscope. This amazing microscope by the looks of the picture would fit on a desk top! This is the link to the Rife Microscope Info http://users.navi.net/~rsc/rife1.htm bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:44:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: denatured sugar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Eva Crane has written: “In autumn 1969 many beekeepers in England fed bees with concessionary syrup that had been dyed green. The colonies were in brood boxes only, and next spring empty supers were added as usual. The honey stored in some of them was green showing that the bees had moved stores from brood box to honey supers many months after feeding.” Regards, Dick Allen **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:53:27 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: denatured sugar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit mmmm, i love the flavor of fluvalinate in the morning :( seriously, if this is born out by other experiments, how free from treatment contamination are honey supers in most large and small operations? deknow -- Dick Allen wrote: Eva Crane has written: “...in some of them was green showing that the bees had moved stores from brood box to honey supers many months after feeding.” **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:59:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard A Cartwright Subject: Bees and coffee grinds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" With temperatures in N.Y. near 40 degrees, bees from my single hive were flying and frequenting nearby crocus flowers. I also noticed a relatively large number of bees (dozen) working the compost heap. I expected them to be gathering sugars and/or moisture from the variety of veggies and fruits that were laying on top of the heap. However, on closer inspection I noticed that all the bees were crawling on coffee grinds, and none were on any of the fruit/vegetable remains. I didn't have glasses with me, so I couldn't see if the bees were actually 'licking' the grinds, but they were certainly crawling through them. I was worried about the effects that any caffeine ingested by the bees may have on individual bees, or the hive behavior as a whole, so I buried the coffee grinds. Has anyone observed anything like this, and if so, any explanations? Dick Cartwright Stony Brook, NY **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:12:52 -0500 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Where do your bees go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Richard Cartwright said "I was worried about the effects that any caffeine ingested by the bees may have on individual bees, or the hive behavior as a whole, so I buried the coffee grinds." At times of year such as this, when the bees do not have an abundance of 'normal' nectar and pollen sources they go to some pretty strange places, such as bird feeders, corn cribs, compost piles, and even some reasonably disgusting places that I won't describe (but us farmers know about). I have never known any ill effects from such visits, nor have any been mentioned to me. Don't worry about it. All the best, Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:13:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eric Simms Subject: Re: denatured sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Deknow wrote: "mmmm, i love the flavor of fluvalinate in the morning :( seriously, if this is born out by other experiments, how free from treatment contamination are honey supers in most large and small operations?" With the exception of those chemistries with short half-lives, there is undoubtedly residues getting carried over from treatment cycles into the next crop of honey. You don't want to know what is in your honey and that is why Americans do not test their honey like Europeans. There is probably a lot of residues in our honey. But there is a lot of residues in everything we eat and drink, too. The big question is how much residue can cause harm? I doubt many of these substance levels are harmful, but we won't know for sure until all of us "lab rats" show/don't show signs of problems that can be traced back to their source. Much of our worries about purity and trace contamination are a waste of time and effort. Nature is full of toxic substances and nature uses them similar to the way we do. Many plants contain naturally occurring antibiotics, pesticides, fungicides, etc. How many are aware of the long standing debate about whether children should be allowed to drink apple juice because of the high level of natural toxins therein? Everything on this planet is a trade off. And purity is a myth. Eric Simms Simms Honey Farm Howe, TX ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:28:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Plastic chemicals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quote: PBDEs are flame-retarding chemicals widely used in the plastic housings of electronic items such as television sets. They are also used in automobiles, building materials and furniture textiles. Two PBDEs, known as penta and octa, were banned in 2004 after studies showed that they disrupted the nervous and hormonal systems and were accumulating in the tissue of humans and wildlife. From: http://www.naturalnews.com/022773.html I just got this and haven't studied it yet. It may be a leap but could chemicals in the plastic comb be the CCD culprit? Dick Marron **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:57:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Plastic chemicals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We've seen lots of plastics in bees wax, hive atmospheres. Styrene is really common in industrialized areas. CCD did not start with the introduction of plastic re-enforced comb. Jerry **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 21:41:20 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: > The wing venation test has a margin of operator error (which I reported in > my ABJ article). The operator has to be very precise when they mouse click > on the bee part points for the computer. The Florida lab showed me by > clicking outside the range that the wing venation program would display > error. Still a margin of operator error exists. I actually considered the > process out dated. I would invent a system in which the computer takes a > picture of both slides ... You may be interested to know that there is a program which will analyse the scanned image of a wing and automatically calculate a number of indices. It was written by Adam Tofilski and is called DrawWing. I was involved in testing the program and wrote a small Excel spreadsheet program to analyse the results and display them in a graphical format. My primary interest in wing morphometry is to determine the racial purity of bees in my A.m.m. breeding programme, but I was finding the use of programs that required the operator to click on the landmarks (vein junctions) both tedious, time-consuming and prone to operator error (a sample of 50 wings requires 400 clicks). The spreadsheet can be downloaded from http://www.stratfordbeekeepers.homecall.co.uk/MorphPlotV1.7.XLS and the first sheet consists of full working instructions and details of where to download DrawWing. Both are simple to use and very fast - the most time-consuming part of the operation is collecting the wings and arranging them on the scanner bed. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 18:35:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Re: Plastic chemicals In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry wrote>>>CCD did not start with the introduction of plastic re-enforced comb. I didn't really believe it either but it was nice to think in a new direction for a moment. I don't suppose they added something recently to the plastic or frames were made in china where who knows what would be in them? Dick **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:08:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Plastic chemicals In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jerry: CCD did not start with the introduction of plastic re-enforced comb. Reply: With this I can heartly agree or Dadant's foundations would have shown this problem associated long ago with duragilt. Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:24:00 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison: The Florida AHB detection system is the same as the Tucson system I was told for my American Bee Journal (ABJ) article. Reply: I find this interesting and first time my mind has keyed into this fact you are saying. Reason: The original FABIS has a disclaimer with it on wing and size measurements to note that if the bees are not from immediate area of samples for base used then a new base must be developed....So La is different from Az, and isn't Fla different from La and Az? One would think so due to localization/regionalization of our honeybees naturally! So tell me more.......how is the Florida AHB and TUcson system the same? especially since bees and animals break out by latitude and longitude and both zones are different. Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: Bees and coffee grinds In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 4-Mar-08, at 12:59 PM, Richard A Cartwright wrote: > However, on closer inspection I > noticed that all the bees were crawling on coffee grinds, and none > were on > any of the fruit/vegetable remains. Hi Dick and all My understanding is that the bees are looking for protein. I've seen them taking sawdust from my compost. I don't think we want to know about some of the things that they take back to the hive when we can't watch them. I wouldn't worry about this but what about your neighbour spraying his dandelions with weed killer. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:52:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Digman Subject: Re: Bees and coffee grinds In-Reply-To: <1385BA66-1DC3-413C-B622-B64037F27586@interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coffee beans have sugars in them that are carmelized during the roasting process. Bees are attracted to the sugars and oils in the grounds. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 05:13:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey's Immunomodulatory Effect Explained by Endotoxin Content MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey's Immunomodulatory Effect Explained by Endotoxin Content Immunomodulatory Effects of Honey Cannot be Distinguished from Endotoxin Cytokine, 2008 Feb 28 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/honeys-immunomodulatory-effect.html In recent years, the use of honey has re-emerged as a remedy for wound treatment. Effects of honey have been related to the presence of an unidentified component that induces release of inflammatory cytokines from monocytic cells. The present study was intended to further characterize the reported in vitro effects of honey... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:21:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >The Florida AHB detection system is the same as the Tucson >system I was told for my American Bee Journal (ABJ) >article. Having actually sent samples to Tuscon in 2007, and having talked on the phone with Ms. Chambers, I guess I know a little about the process. The sample I sent was deemed European on the basis of the wings and no further testing was required. She told me that IF they had met the wing criterion they would have proceeded the DNA test; otherwise, it's a waste of money. IF the test comes back AHB, NY state requires the destruction of the colony under supervision of a state inspector. The colony in question was meaner than hornets, though and was very close to the owner's house. I recommended take them out, even if they weren't Africans. Stung me about a hundred times around the neck. I know that people are moving these bees out of the south into other states. In time, they will probably be everywhere, like all the other honey bee pests. pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:37:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: N ceranae treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi All, My web tech has posted my latest nosema articles to my website www.scientificbeekeeping.com The Nosema Twins 4 is all about fumagillin. The Nosema Twins 5 is about alternative treatments, disinfection, and management. Has anyone on the List any experience with using ozone for fumigation of combs? Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 08:00:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) In-Reply-To: <85776.91680.qm@web51608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Dee & All, Dee asked: > So tell me more.......how is the Florida AHB and TUcson > system the same? Same computer program & slides to use as sample for AHB as Tucson uses. Tucson bee lab produced the slides sent Jerry. The AHB slides sent were sloppily done *in my opinion* as the clear was too heavy and had a line or two but I am only a beekeeper . especially since bees and animals break > out by latitude and longitude and both zones are different. The system must be fairly accurate because I was told wing venation samples done on the computer almost always matched DNA findings. Have you ever seen a nasty hive of AHB? They are small for the most part and usually around 5000 bees. However they all come at you at once. I dealt with a couple large AHB hives once (trying to follow the advice of some researchers about requeening those gals) but learned killing the hive is the best method. I had never in all my years seen such nasty hives. It was a challenge to just get the lid off. Smoke only made the bees upset. The thing I notice about upset AHB is the fact you get so many in your face at once and because they are quick to sting the alarm pheromone only increases their fury. In Texas the beekeepers when they visit a yard they have not been to in awhile the first thing they do is go through and lightly push each hive. If the hive has been taken over by AHB the bees will boil out. If you have never seen a real hive of nasty AHB I will explain further some of their traits. When strong (30-40,000 bees) any type of quick movement, noise or even smoke can set the bees off. Researchers are not sure exactly why some colonies are aggressive when other AHB are not but the large aggressive colonies are a hand full. Maybe one of these days you will come across one of these type AHB and will be able to tell the list your observations. I can't remember you ever talking about such a colony. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:34:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) In-Reply-To: <21C322A89E8C48CBA122CD257CE1A171@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob: Have you ever seen a nasty hive of AHB? They are small for the most part and usually around 5000 bees. However they all come at you at once. Reply: Bob, I have never seen a hive like that that come at you all at once. Really! and I have worked bees and lots of them for many years since a teen, and I do handle all the swarm traps for the Tucson and GreenValley Gold courses and still have not seen what you describe. Sure makes one wonder what the differences are, like chemical usage in ones area, and soil treatments, farming ways that could get such things going........and or types of bees interfacing beekeeper to beekeeper perhaps......just dunno, for have really never seen this. Even after the recent conference here and picking up knocked over equipment with no smoker for the most part, just didn't see whole hives doing this, and several beekeepers were out with me looking at yards too. If killers we should have all be attacked and covered from head to foot from what you describe, but we weren't. Anyway, anytime you wish to see my bees you still can...... just so you can observe and try to see a difference to explain this happening sorta. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:42:49 -0800 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: Opportunity to Support $20 million for Honey Bee/Pollinator research - Deadline March 14th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi All, As you may know, passage of the '07 Farm Bill has been delayed because it is over budget. Senator Boxer (DCa) is making every effort to secure sustained funding that prioritizes research for honey bees. All interested individuals or organizations are encouraged to "sign on". BRIEF BACKGROUND: * While farm bill reauthorization is important, most of the money for programs derives through the annual appropriations process, which is currently underway for FY09. * Sen Barbara Boxer is circulating ATTACHED letter from Senators with same request, urging colleagues to cosign. + Casey, Stabenow, Biden and Kerry reportedly have already committed to sign this letter. + Contacts to Senate offices encourage them to sign on appreciated. * Coevolution Institute is also sending separate letter to Kohl & Bennett. + Others are urged to do the same, or include support for this provision in any broader comments you may be submitting. * Administration's FY09 proposal includes $780,000 increase over reported baseline budget for USDA 'pollinator research' of about $9 million total, mostly for USDA bee labs and honeybee-related research. Thanks in advance for your consideration and involvement. ***** > > BOXER AT AL LETTER: > > Dear Chairman Kohl and Ranking Member Bennett, > > The undersigned urge the Agriculture Appropriations Subcommittee to > allocate $20 million in Fiscal Year 2009 funding for honeybee and pollinator > research projects. These funds will help provide sustainable research and combat > immediate and pressing challenges like Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) and > other factors that threaten both managed honeybees and wild pollinators. > > > Honeybees and wild pollinators are essential partners in agriculture and > in healthy ecosystems. Today, CCD and other threats to the health and > population of pollinators in North America could jeopardize the > integrity of our food supply and healthy wildlife ecosystems. > Investments in honeybee and pollinator research at USDA have failed to > reflect the seriousness and urgency of threats to pollinators. The > Administration's proposed increase of less than $1 million for FY09 falls > far short of the investment needed. The $20 million request is > consistent with the Senate-passed farm bill, which includes a $100 million > authorization over five years for CCD and other pollinator-related > research initiatives. > > Sincerely, > > ORGANIZATIONS: > > > > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:31:04 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Bees and coffee grinds In-Reply-To: <66924794511F44269BE731794DD412AE@Family> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Barry Digman: Bees are attracted to the sugars and oils in the grounds. Reply: Barry, I just cannot resist this: Before or after the boiling water is passed thru for making coffee? Dee- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 02:30:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: bee graveyard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.vanishingbees.com/blog/ reports a large bee loss in CA by a very large, well known beekeeper. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 05:02:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: One-Third of Chinese Apitherapy Products Not Up to Standard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII One-Third of Chinese Apitherapy Products Not Up to Standard Shenzhen's Honey Product Qualification Rate At 66% China Industry Daily News, 3/6/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/one-third-of-chinese-bee-products-not.html (Mar. 6, 2008)- The inspection on Shenzhen City's honey products included 100 batches of products from 75 producers in 22 provinces and cities. More specifically, it involved 80 batches of honey, 12 batches of bee pollen and 8 batches of royal jelly, with the overall qualification rate at 66%... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:39:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dee Lusby wrote: > I do handle all the swarm traps for the Tucson and Green Valley Golf courses and still have not seen what you describe. * * * > The defensive behavior and worker size observed for newly founded A m scutellata colonies > Newly established colonies exhibit little or no defense behavior (Schneider and McNally, 1992c). Indeed, when recently founded colonies are disturbed workers flee the combs and may abandon the nest (Schneider and Blyther, 1988; Schneider and McNally, 1992c). Thus, during the early stages of colony development few workers are likely to be lost in defense, which may help maintain a larger number for foraging, nest construction and brood care. > The initial workers raised by recently established colonies may be somewhat smaller than those reared later in colony development, because cells in the central (older) regions of the combs tend to be slightly smaller than those in the outer, newer regions (Winston, personal communication). Smaller size may allow a greater number of workers to be produced from the resources that can be initially harvested. > The rearing of virgin queens and the production of swarms were observed only during October and November. Defensive behavior is greatest at this time, which may reflect larger colony size and increased ability to mount attacks, or greater levels of investment in colony growth and reproductive output (Schneider and McNally, 1992c). > "Developmental patterns associated with founding and swarming in colonies of the African honey bee race, Apis mellifera scutellata Lepeletier" by SS Schneider & LC McNally in Apidologie **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:05:57 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: uff, it doesn't want to stop Comments: To: honey_australia@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline http://www.noticiasapicolas.com.ar/venderonovender.htm Translation: To sell or not to sell, esa es la pregunta? The variation in production in the Argentinian Republic makes that honey prices keep on rising. In march the honey price open at A$6.9+vat, with given transaction at A$7.15+vat in some regions. In Chile and Uruguay the harvest won't be much. Yet the balance of 2007-2008 season is not close, but everyone interview consider that this will be the worst season in 11 years. Remember that some said that this would be a record year. Based on SAGPyA in january 2008 export were of 3692 tons for about US$7 millons FOB. This represented a decrease of 45.8% in volumen and an increas= e of 27% in price with respect to previous year. The average selling price in january was 1.98 US$/Kg Durante enero 5 empresas exportaron a Alemania, Bulgaria, Francia y Gran Breta=F1a 312,95 tn de *miel homogeneizada* por un monto de 600.103 U$S. Por otro lado se exportaron 18,6 ton de miel fraccionada multiflora por un valor FOB de U$S 57.024. Los Pa=EDses Bajos fueron el principal mercado de colocaci=F3n en volumen (48,2), seguido por Uruguay (25,6), Bolivia (22,9)= y Jap=F3n (3,13). El precio FOB medio de venta en Enero* * para la miel fraccionada fue de 2.52 U$S/Kg. Now the (regional) conferences start. Will the buyers sit waiting for beek or will they go out to search for them? Will some of them lobby to lower th= e price? It is time to sell? How longer one have to sit on the drums? The che= z game is serve =BFto sell or not to sell? that is the question. --=20 Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:56:27 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIFNlcHDDpGzDpA==?= Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There must be variation in defensive behaviour of Africanized honeybees. Beekeepers in Brazil and other places are working only with these bees. And they are able to work them, but work is different from our bees. So I think that ther must be much more Africanized bees in the beeyards Bob told about. It is not only the hives that boil out when shaken a little. But those hives are most likely more Africanized. Ha anyone in list observed Africanized hive in US that is not much more aggressive than normal hives ? Ari Seppälä Finland **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 09:59:26 -0500 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: AHB testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ari asked "Ha anyone in list observed Africanized hive in US that is not much more aggressive than normal hives ?" We are in upstate NY, where AHB are not expected to be able to maintain their present genetic makeup. However, every summer we experience numerous AHB hives that are brought to us from Florida. Some, which I have not personally observed, will attack a truck as it enters a yard. Beekeepers have told me that they quickly learn where these hives are and avoid them. I have the impression that they do not kill them, but hope that they will supercede before they are taken to Florida for another winter. I have had a single experience with a hive that attacked from 50 meters away. There were several hundred bees attacking berry pickers without provocation. This behavior was reported to bee inspectors who had samples tested and they were confirmed as AHB, and the hive was destroyed. Of interest, the beekeeper had several more hives with equally agressive behavior (but no attacks on berry pickers) and the inspectors did not ask that they be destroyed. I am not aware of whether the inspectors were aware of these hives, or whether they asked to inspect all this beekeeper's hives (so they would have discovered more AHB). Imagine if inspectors in Florida, Arizona, California, New Mexico, etc. considered it their duty to destroy all AHB hives. Beekeeping would cease to exist in most of those states and growers and the public would be outraged. Yet, in the interest of full employment of inspectors, in NYS AHB hives are to be destroyed! Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:08:18 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit haven't we been told that definitive tests are generally only run on hives involved in stinging incidents? how would one know if a hive was "africanized" if it was not aggressive enough to have caused a stinging incident? deknow -- Ari Seppälä wrote: Ha anyone in list observed Africanized hive in US that is not much more aggressive than normal hives ? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:18:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: EPA Website on CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit EPA Website on CCD http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/about/intheworks/honeybee.htm **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 16:49:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Are Honey Bees Our Canaries In The Mine? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank Are we mining this planet for all it's worth for little regard for = anything than what is the easiest and most financially relevant at the = time? Perhaps our honeybees (insects) are trying to tell us something = and the bats (mammals) are joining the chorus? Perhaps we will be Next = or is there already evidence and we are to blind or ignorant to realize = it? I debated for some time to post this comment, how do others feel? Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:16:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Plastic chemicals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't agree, I think there is more involved now then duragilt. a thin sheet of plastic sheeting in a wood frame is different then an injection plastic molded frame with a heavier extruded rigid sheet as foundation. several different solvents are used to extruded plastic. unlike wood, plastic outgasses these solvents especially during the first year after production and in hot temps. Their is alot more plastic in weight in todays typical hive then in the duragilt days. maybe its not the root cause behind CCD but then again smarter minds then mine have theorized CCD is not a one trick pony and probably is a combination of factors. the way I look at it is how far are we from the honeybees natural instinct of living in a stationary tree cavity on naturally formed comb? every variable we have added for different reasons to manage bees and make a living moves us further and further away from nature. i don't need millions of frames for my operation so we use crimp wired foundation without wiring in wood frames and get by just fine in supers and even brood comb deeps. just like not using antibiotics preventively or using mite treatments that contaminate combs my argument is reduce the variables to very few and it makes a dead or collapsing hive that much more easy to theorize a diagnosis. i understand the allure to large operations but for the small operation plastic has many drawbacks mainly the bees don't like it. in a marginal season plastic could become the variable that prevented a decent buildup of comb and associated nectar and pollen storage. so where's the big savings if the hive tanks over the coming winter? The Feb issue of bee culture page 50 illustrates that wood/beeswax foundation is cheaper then plastic even with labor to assemble. the article goes on to explain how poorly bees on a marginal flow will draw plastic. the article further convinced me that plastic is a waste of time in the long haul but its been sold as another "improvement" and IMO potentially another variable that is preventing a colony from prospering in an ever changing environment. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:28:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: AHB testing (was Small Cell ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Since I have a program of collecting ferals from over a several county area to evaluate for preferred characteristics, I find that a small number of swarms collected can develop into extremely aggressive colonies as the colony reaches stages of maturity. A casual observation is that these ultra aggressive colonies tend to originate in location from areas near to domestic beekeeping, and tend to, but not always, appear to be a somewhat darker strain of bee. It’s no big deal, but the problem is that they tend not to exhibit much aggressiveness until the colony grows near to maturity, so time and resources are wasted, and the colony after maturity reaches problem status very quickly. What prompted me to respond is,,, I’m not concerned much about ‘hives that boil out when shaken a little’, every colony can have a bad day, and these occasions can warrant a second chance. I am much more concerned about (and cull immediately) colonies that: 1. boil out from visual stimulus such as a passing shadow, 2. boil out from sound stimulus. 3. spontaneous eruption with no apparent stimulus 4. colonies that smell of alarm pheromone when alarmed, sometimes detected at 3 feet away of more. 5. follow a distance of more than about 20 meters As my continuing monitoring tool, colonies are watched closely concerning their response to any stimulus. If a colony exhibits elevated aggressiveness while working them, I will come back at a later date and simply smoke and remove the lid while I work the yard. I have found that leaving the roof off and nest exposed to sound and visual stimulus for a short time will often reveal the demeanor of ultra aggressive colonies. While doing my yard work, I will frequently walk by to observe the suspected aggressive colony which is left opened with the roof and innercover removed for several minutes. If the colony smells of alarm pheromone, spontaneously erupts, or erupts from visual or sound stimulus, it will be slated for immediate culling. Best Wishes, Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:49:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: EPA Website on CCD In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > EPA Website on CCD > http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/about/intheworks/honeybee.htm Good find, especially the links on the web page. Probably the most factual information I have yet read on CCD. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 18:19:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: EPA Website on CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Good find It came my way from Jim Grefig (Grefigjj@aol.com) Aaron Morris - thinking give credit where credit's due! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:41:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: AHB testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Lloyd: Imagine if inspectors in Florida, Arizona, California, New Mexico, etc. considered it their duty to destroy all AHB hives. * So far as I know, Arizona hasn't had bee inspection in many years > Gov. Janet Napolitano signed into law a bill that adds wild honeybees to the list of public nuisances because they endanger public health. This means county officials can order a property owner to have a bee swarm removed at the owner's cost. If the bee swarm is located on public lands, the county will pay for the exterminator. All wild bees are considered Africanized > Representative Jennifer Burns, sponsor, testified that this bill addresses killer bee attacks. She advised that two people were attacked and died in Cochise County because of these attacks. The fire department responds when someone has been attacked but does not respond prior to that. This bill covers those situations where hives are in abandoned buildings and in trees in vacant lots which pose a threat to human safety and no one has the authority to remove them. This bill grants the authority to the counties to remove the hives when they pose a threat to public health and safety. She stated that this proposal is not an attempt to regulate the bee industry. It asks beekeepers to post signs. She related that according to the University of Arizona, 95 to 100 percent of the wild bees in Arizona are Africanized bees. > Burns said that while she seeks to protect the public with her bill, she also wants to make sure the measure would not harm any of the roughly 300 beekeepers in the state. That's why it only applies to colonies that are not maintained by a beekeeper. The Arizona Department of Agriculture worked with several beekeepers to make sure they don't have concerns about the bill, said Ed Hermes, spokesman for the Arizona Department of Agriculture. > H.B. 2306 designates hives or feral honeybee colonies that endanger the public's health or safety as public nuisances. The bill exempts hives or colonies that are currently and actively maintained or controlled by a beekeeper. Ms. Bullington explained that the Ulmer six-line amendment dated 1/29/07 requires that the feral colony of honeybees be maintained by a beekeeper. The amendment additionally requires that the hive or property be labeled with the beekeeper's name and phone number. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 23:54:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Re: Plastic chemicals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brian Fredericksen: “every variable we have added for different reasons to manage bees and make a living moves us further and further away from nature.” When it comes to things like plastic in the hive I have to agree with Brian. Plastic foundation in honey supers is one thing, but plastic comb in the brood chambers? It just seems like we’re trying awfully hard to keep a bee from doing what a bee does. What’s the future in that? One of the things a bee does and has done for thousands of years is build comb. They build it and they tear it down. They arrange it and rearrange it to fit their needs. They obviously like to have a fair amount of flexibility when it comes to what they do with wax. How in the world does it make sense to take something as fundamental as that away from them? I am sure that the really seasoned veterans of beekeeping, the ones who have a sort of sixth sense about bees, can read a lot about the state of a hive just by looking at the brood comb. The less you let your bees do what bees are designed to do the more clueless you’re going to be when nature says to hell with this. Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 00:35:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Are Honey Bees Our Canaries In The Mine? In-Reply-To: <007b01c87fd5$3079f640$0301a8c0@BLINE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Alden & All, >are trying to tell us something and the bats (mammals) are joining the >chorus? As Aaron pointed out there are similarities between the bat die-off and the bee die-off. I am sure many watched the CBS evening news report today by Katie Curic. Tomorrow another story about the bee die-off. Bat die-off: Three possible hypothesis were presented by three researchers (and my comments) Researcher 1. because of weather the bats did not store enough food for hibernation. Also could be caused by the new neonicotinoids as reduced feeding is a known symptom of neonicotinoid poisoning. The important thing about the views of researcher 1 is he has pin pointed the fact the dead bats died above all else from starvation! He blames the weather but unlike the bee die off the current bat die off to my knowledge started over the last few years and is escalating. The weather seems a week hypothesis but possible as climate change effects many species. One other hypothesis: bats feeding on insects with levels of pesticides. Possible systemic. researcher 2. Fungus killed the bats. Could easily be a symptom rather than the actual cause of death. (the same with fungus and CCD) Fungus was at the top of the CCD cause list for a short while. Now ruled out as a serious factor. researcher 3. Pesticides. lethargic bats and bats simply flying out in dead of winter to die. Both symptoms the program indicated had not been seen before. Eerily similar to what many beekeepers are reporting this winter in cold areas. Hives with bees last warm spell . Then when checked a couple weeks later the hive is empty or only a small amount of bees. Not with heads in cells but dead on bottom board. Not found dead in front of the entrance. The only possible explanation is the bees simply flew out confused and could not make it back or simply flew out to die. I had a few of these hives myself and I can say I have NEVER seen the problem before the last few years. In the CCD information posted today about "What the EPA is doing" it is still in my opinion more of the same from the EPA. We are tired of the LD 50 reasoning. We want to know about sub lethal effects. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 06:09:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Presentations on Honey and Wound Healing to be Offered at U.S. Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Presentations on Honey and Wound Healing to be Offered at U.S. Conference Derma Sciences Announces Numerous Clinical Presentations on MEDIHONEY(TM) Wound & Burn Dressings at Upcoming SAWC Conference Evidence Base for MEDIHONEY(TM) Dressings Continues To Grow http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/presentations-on-honey-and-wound.html PRINCETON, N.J., March 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Derma Sciences, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: DSCI - News), a provider of advanced wound care products, announced today that seven abstracts detailing the clinical usage of its newly released MEDIHONEY Wound & Burn Dressings with Active Leptospermum Honey were accepted for presentation at the upcoming annual Symposium on Advanced Wound Care conference, held this year between April 24 - 27 in San Diego, CA... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 06:09:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bee Pollen Beats Vitamin Pills MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Bee Pollen Beats Vitamin Pills Bee Pollen - A Budget Friendly Food for Health and Healing By Barbara L. Minton, NaturalNews.com, 3/6/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/bee-pollen-beats-vitamin-pills.html (NaturalNews) Bee pollen is often referred to as nature's most complete food. Pollen harvested from a diverse selection of geographic areas contains all the essential components of life in a good tasting, chewable, easily digested, and highly bio-available form that can be consumed by anyone from young children to the very old. All the nutritive and rejuvenating elements contained in expensive, whole food vitamin pills can be found in bee pollen. But since these elements are crafted into the most super of superfoods by nature, they have the added benefits of perfect synergy. Pollen also offers healing, with interesting research studies documenting its medicinal effects... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:36:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Are Honey Bees Our Canaries In The Mine? In-Reply-To: <007b01c87fd5$3079f640$0301a8c0@BLINE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALDEN MARSHALL wrote: > I debated for some time to post this comment, how do others feel? We do not know what causes CCD or bats dying. So how could we possibly leap from ignorance to reasoned discussion on the End of the World as We Know It? We cannot. But that has never anyone on the BeeL. Personally, I feel that the End of the World as We Know It will come with the last re-airing of Gilligan's Island. That show is our last and only link with the Age of Reason. Bill Truesdell (purveyor of Reynolds Wrap) Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:01:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Are Honey Bees Our Canaries In The Mine? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit at this point CCD would appear to be mainly focused on human managed colonies that are moved around for pollination. unless you believe the upcoming media stories that should be coming out in the next month that stationary wintered over colonies that are dead in spring is somehow a mutation of CCD. (point being the stationary beeks would have reported CCD prior to winter so any reports in the next 1.5 months is likely CCD me too disease, formerly known as winter kill) so I don't see a bogey man pathogen that randomly is wiping out pollinators - ask some of the commercial beeks and you get the same prerecorded message - Bayer is secretly killing our bees, bats and maybe even birds (but apparently not small hive beetles or mites). Or I guess you can just buy the checkmite strips from Bayer or coumophos in a jug and then there's no mystery at all who did what to their bees, but see its still Bayer at fault any way you slice and dice it.....get with the program and support our troops, drink the anti-Bayer kool-aid and be a patriotic American! at any rate one of the great mysteries of the recent bee losses is how big is the problem and what were the symptoms at time of loss. we have such poor historic records to go by no one seems to know if we're losing more bees then normal and how much of the current losses are real CCD. we have a crisis - we're just not sure yet how to define the crisis. maybe the crisis is that them darn bees don't want to do it our way anymore. they won't stay living on that contaminated comb and mono-diet of HFCS and almond nectar from Nov-Mar and racking up the frequent road miles awards. we should get donald trump to fire them bees and replace them with Bayer genetically altered bees so we don't have to even mess around with pesky concepts like animal husbandry or beekeeping. these future genetically altered super bees could potentially fly through any cloud of Bayer toxins or live on combs and frames made from recycled checkmite strips or coumophos and tactic jugs. bees that are altered to actually thrive on Imid tainted nectar and pollen. but like the monsanto soy beans if you replicate these genetically modified bees you owe Bayer a royalty for every worker or queen bee hatched out. science will solve our ills, most people are eating food byproducts at this point anyhow or meat from sick animals- a genetically altered bee would fit in better in the Industrial farm belt then those namby pamby natural bees that used to live with little human intervention. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 15:06:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: AHB testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Since arriving in Florida five years ago, they have spread through most of the peninsula, and experts expect them to soon be found throughout the state. Since it would be impossible to eradicate them, agricultural scientists and emergency response officials are trying to find a way to learn to live with them. > "Africanized bees dominate any environment," said Gerald Hayes, an assistant bureau chief responsible for bees in the Florida Department of Agriculture. "In South Florida we're seeing this transition. They're spreading. They're spreading to suburban areas. Barbecue grills. Mailboxes. You're going to see more interactions with the public, pets, livestock. They love water meter boxes. They might be able to get into your attic. We're finding them under overturned flower pots." > The Africanized variety looks identical to the European honey bees common in Florida, but wingspan and body-segment measurements confirmed the worst. "It's concerning because this shouldn't be happening at this time of the year," said Hayes. He said the bees reproduce more slowly in the winter and it's rare to see an attack, though warmer-than-usual weather may play a part. Prior to the Dec. 26 incident, the Department of Agriculture had found 17 cases of Africanized bees in Broward County over two years, including one in which a dog was stung, Hayes said. "We've had traps along the port areas for about a decade trying to intercept these bees," said Hayes. "Obviously we didn't get them all. . . . I have no doubt our situation will be similar to South America. All our gentle bees will be gone, and we'll have all these grumpy bees to deal with." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:10:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Are Honey Bees Our Canaries In The Mine? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > We do not know what causes CCD or bats dying. So how could we possibly > leap from ignorance to reasoned discussion on the End of the World as We > Know It? We cannot. But that has never anyone on the BeeL. > Appreciate Bills' comment. The post was intended as more of perhaps a wake up call to change direction! > Alden M. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 00:07:58 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Plastic chemicals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Plastic foundation in honey supers is one thing, but plastic comb in the brood chambers? It just seems like we?re trying awfully hard to keep a bee from doing what a bee does. Why make the distinction between the broodnest and the honey supers? I have not seen evidence that plastic frames outgas any harmful chemicals (in humans plastics act as pseudo-estrogen and offset the hormonal balance) and would like to see any results to that effect. I use Pierco frames in my wooden hives and have not seen unusual bee losses. I have always thought that the bees keep the in-hive temperatures in a well controlled range. On the other hand, I have wondered about styrofoam hives which get heated quite a bit by the sun. I think styrofoam, when heated, outgases benzene, a carcinogen. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 19:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Jennifer Berry on Small Cell - HAS 2007 - Video Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit she covers a wide range of other topics also http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3081789258595842918&pr=goog-sl **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************